#I’m pretty sure Nora said only Andrew does but | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

hadtochangemyurlquick · 4 years ago

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here’s 7.1k of Toni pining and Shelby and Toni being childhood friends and also far more character analysis of Rachel than I was expecting? also Marcus is real and I made him a gorgeous himbo. it’s based off that poem by @theycallmedizzy and you can find it here. lmk if you want a second chapter from shelby’s perspective, tho i literally just finished this one. like literally ten minute ago.

Mr. Williams finishes reading the poem and looks over his spectacles at the class. Yes, they’re spectacles, those kind of tiny thick ones that make his eyes too big because he’s much too old to be teaching.

It’s eight am on a Tuesday, Toni walked the three miles to school because she missed the bus only to walk into her shitty honors English class and hear the teacher reading a poem aloud to the class. Her poem. She’d sat down after a momentary pause and listened to him read the final damning stanza.

And then he looks at Toni.

He reads her essays right? What if he recognizes her writing voice? Is that a thing? Or maybe her handwriting or—

“Toni, I was just explaining to the class that whoever wrote this should submit it to the state literature festival,” Mr. Williams says, Toni almost sags against her chair. “I was hoping someone would come forward,” He turns back to the class, eyes hovering over Quinn and Monty, two of the more sensitive guys who sit in the back and ruin the curve for everyone. “But I’ll leave it on the board here,” he clacks it on with a magnet and Toni flinches, “and hopefully someone will come forward. Now onto today’s lesson.”

After class Martha goes up to the board and takes a picture of it, her eyes a little starry at the words and Toni grits her teeth.

“You have to admit it’s pretty,” Martha says. “Even you can’t deny that.”

“It’s dumb,” Toni says flatly, crossing her arms.

“Well I’m keeping it anyway, maybe someday someone will write a poem about me,” Martha says.

“How do you know it’s not about you?” Shelby asks coming out of nowhere and uninvited too. Toni glares at her, letting her open disdain shine through like sunshine through clouds after a gully washer.

“No guys notice me,” Martha informs Shelby sadly. “I bet Andrew wrote it for you.”

Shelby purses her lips and looks over the poem, “I doubt it. He’s more of a doer, I think. Besides, I’m sure that guys notice you, you went on a date with that boy Sam last month.”

Martha sighs and before she can launch into what a disaster that date was, Toni tightens her hands around her backpack.

“I’ll see you in science,” She tells Martha and manages to escape Shelby’s eyes burning at the back of her neck.

———

reasons not to kiss her

1.) this sort of love is not allowed. you are both too soft, and the world around you is all knives and chipped teeth

Toni had played about every sport she was allowed to growing up. Basketball was her favorite, but she loved beat it ball, the game she made up with the other kids in the neighborhood. It was basketball but without rules, devolving into fist fights within the first half. Nothing tasted better than her own bloody lip on a hot summer day. Not even the cool glass of lemonade Mrs. Blackburn always had ready when she ran all skinned knees to Martha’s telling her about how she beat guys two years older than her.

She got angry when she had to stop playing, moving to a different neighborhood. Apparently, Mrs. Blackburn had figured out that she wasn’t only getting her split lip from the older kids in the neighborhood.

The new foster parents were a little stricter, a little richer, and signed her up for youth soccer when she complained about how there was nothing to do without beat it ball.

Martha Blackburn would always be her person, but Toni didn’t expect to find her people so young. Dottie killed as goalie, and Becca’s sweetness made her defense all the better. But it was Shelby and Toni who were the dynamic duo. Toni had a never ending amount of energy as a midfielder and Shelby’s precision made her the perfect striker. It worked the same way every game, Becca would kick it to Toni, who got it to Shelby, who scored a goal. It got to the point that Becca didn’t even need to do much and the coach had to pull Toni aside to tell her to pass to the other girls too.

At the end of the season they sat together at the team party, wearing orange slice smiles. With sticky fingers they held hands and Toni kinda wondered how someone’s eyes could be so green.

Toni doesn’t remember why Shelby’s parents were so angry about them holding hands, but she knows Mr. Goodkind talked to her foster parents and Toni was off to a different home, in a different district, and she lost even Martha for a few months.

———

At lunch everyone’s talking about that fucking poem. Martha sent it around to the whole school and Leah is discussing its merits with Rachel and Nora. Even they don’t seem bored with the topic, though Nora is sure Quinn didn’t write it.

“It could be Monty,” Leah says. “I wouldn’t have thought he had an eye for this stuff.”

“I don’t think it’s Monty,” Rachel says. She looks at Nora, “C’mon, you know what I’m talking about, right?”

“What?” Nora asks.

“I mean it smells like Anna Akhmatova had a baby with Adrienne Rich,” Rachel says.

“Who had a baby with who?” Martha asks.

“Please,” Fatin says. “You’re not exactly the world’s leading expert on free form poetry.”

“Uh, I know when something’s written by a girl,” Rachel says. “I bet you fifty bucks some closet case wrote this.”

Everyone looks at Toni. “You caught me,” Toni deadpans.

“Rachel’s right,” Nora says. “A girl definitely wrote this. Toni, do you know anyone?”

Toni glares at her. “I’ll shake the lesbian phone tree and see what comes out.”

“Well, could it be Regan?” Martha asks. “Maybe she wants to—”

“It’s not fucking Regan,” Toni grabs her books and stalks out, kicking a chair randomly strewn around away as she did.

She hears Shelby sit down just as she leaves, “What’s got her madder than a baptized cat?” Shelby asks and Toni rolls her eyes.

———

2.) no one ever taught you how to love. your war paint and scarred hands could never hold her like she deserves

The worst of it was that Shelby was gentle. Her hands were warm and soft around Toni’s callouses, and there was a crinkle between her eyebrows as she focused on Toni’s hands. No, the worst of it was that Shelby didn’t let go of Toni’s hands when she finished, kept holding onto them as she met Toni’s eyes.

“Well?”

Toni swallowed hard, “I’m not gonna apologize.”

Shelby sighed, her thumb traced little circles around Toni’s hands. “I know today ain’t easy for you.” Toni scoffed and looked away. “But you know you were pickin' a fight. Andrew promised to leave you alone.”

Toni ripped her hands away and jumped from the bench of the locker room. “What the fuck do you know? You weren’t fucking there.”

Shelby’s calm only made Toni’s anger redder, “You ain’t denying it.”

“Why the fuck are you dating him? He’s a self-satisfied little asshole who just wants a little trophy girlfriend to—”

“Toni,” Shelby cut her off sharply and got to her feet, meeting Toni’s eyes.

“You’re not denying that either,” Toni spat.

She could’ve screamed at the hypocrisy. She wanted to scream. She wanted to pound her fists against the walls and bleed all over the bandages Shelby wrapped around her knuckles. She wanted to hurt, to make Shelby hurt. She wanted everyone to see and feel how hurt she was, and hurt them with that hurt. Finally level the playing field.

“Andrew is my business,” Shelby said. “Not yours.”

“He becomes my business when you—”

“When I what?” Shelby asked.

Toni looked at her hands, “Never mind.”

Shelby sighed, “Martha’s helping you move in today, right? Shel’ll be there the whole time?”

“Don’t pretend you give a shit.”

“Of course I care. The last time you lived with your mom you didn’t eat for a week.”

“I was five, not fifteen,” Toni said. “And seriously, stop pretending you give a shit.”

She shoulder checked Shelby as she walked out and winced at the sound of Shelby hitting the gym lockers. Her hands still sting where Andrew’s teeth had scrapped them.

———

Regan approaches Toni during science, her eyes serious. Martha straightens, and Toni does her best not to make eye contact.

“It’s not mine,” Regan says.

“Yeah duh,” Toni mutters.

Regan frowns, “I just—I didn’t want you to—”

“You made it perfectly clear what you want,” Toni says.

Regan sighs and leaves and Toni regrets it.

“Shelby thinks it’s Marcus,” Martha tells her. Toni blinks up at her and Martha nods. “She thinks he wrote it for me.”

“Martha, that kid is dumber than a box of rocks,” Toni says.

Martha furrows her brow, “Maybe he has hidden depths.”

“If you think it’s him ask him out,” Toni says.

“Shelby thinks it’s him,” Martha is quick to correct. “But he doesn’t even know who I am.”

Toni rolls her eyes. Marcus had been in love with Martha since the ninth grade. They had gotten placed as lab partners and he literally didn’t take his eyes off her the entire time. Every time there was a dance he would always look like he was about to say something, shoot his shot, when Martha would loudly proclaim she couldn’t wait to go with her friends.

Toni would’ve pulled the guy aside and told him to grow a pair, but a guy who’s not brave enough to go after what he wants wasn’t good enough for her Marty, not by a long shot.

“Rachel still thinks a girl wrote it,” Martha says.

“Maybe Rachel wrote it,” Toni mutters.

Martha’s eyes light up.

———

3.) no one has ever loved you this full surely you would drown in it all

Being a lifeguard was the worst. It was super boring, the pay was shit, and also Toni would probably get someone killed. Like, they pretended she was CPR certified but she absolutely had no idea how to do it. She went to some hour long course, slept through it, took a test that was just: should you kill people? And then they wrote some bullshit on some papers about a three week long set of classes.

But Shelby was tanned and golden looking and on their shifts they’d text back and forth about which kids they were betting on to win sharks and minnows. Tweenage boys in all their adolescent infancy would gaze open mouthed at Shelby and Toni alike but Shelby was the only one who let them down gently. Toni would ruin them for girls forever with something enough to cut through even the thickest skin.

On the fourth of July the pool paid for fireworks and Toni found a blanket and Shelby found her and they sat watching the reflections of the lights together. Shelby rested her head on Toni’s shoulder, all gentle, like she was afraid Toni would spook.

“I know this ain’t much of a holiday for you,” Shelby said. “But thank you for spending it with me.”

She had her hand on the blanket, splayed out like she was waiting for Toni to take it, there in front of everyone. Toni imagined a world in which she did.

———

“Yeah it’s not me,” Rachel says. “I wish I could write that good.”

Which is such bullshit because Toni knows Rachel could say well if she wanted to. Rachel’s weird inferiority complex about Nora pisses off Toni to no end. Nora’s the smart one, Rachel will be the first to say, and Rachel’s the athletic one. But Nora has a six minute mile and Rachel has perfect pitch so Toni hates them both.

“Maybe it’s Dot,” Toni suggests and Rachel, Nora, and Martha snicker.

Out of all of them, Martha’s the best driver, but they always end up in Rachel’s car after school anyway.

“Most of the school seems to think it’s by Andrew,” Nora says. Toni’s fists clench.

“Yeah,” Rachel rolls her eyes, “I’m sure he would love to take the credit. C’mon Toni, you don’t know any lesbians who could’ve written this?”

“You’re a lesbian too,” Toni says. “You don’t know any?”

“I don’t have a life outside of the pool,” Rachel says, “and none of them have picked up a book since Hop on Pop.”

“Regan says it wasn’t her,” Martha cuts in helpfully. “But maybe it’s another kid in theatre. Shelby says—”

“Oh my god,” Toni grits out. “What is everyone’s deal with her anyway? Why is everyone still obsessed with her? She’s just another basic Jesus bitch.”

The car goes quiet and Toni wishes she could melt into her seat cushion.

“I didn’t mean that,” Toni says.

“Except you did,” Martha snaps.

Toni winces.

“What’s your deal with her?” Rachel asks. “You guys were fine last year.”

“Quinn says there’s a poetry club,” Nora says. “Maybe it’s someone there?”

No one takes the bait and they don’t talk the rest of the way.

———

4.) she belongs in a museum, and you are merely here to gaze. look around you, all the signs scream ‘do not touch’

“Shelby?”

Toni grabbed the shoulder of the girl and pulled her away from Marcus. Shelby was bruised lips and ruined make up and Toni took her by the hand. Thank god Martha wasn’t here, thank god Andrew wasn’t here, thank god Marcus looked just as trashed.

“Toni?” Shelby sorta stumbled, her ankle twisting painfully on her heel and Toni steadied her.

Shelby could do a cartwheel in six inch heels.

“I’m gonna get you home, okay?” Toni called over the music.

Shelby didn’t really respond, just leant into Toni as she led her away and outside. The party had spilled into the backyard and front yard some, the cops probably already on their way, but everyone was too fucking hammered to notice them making their way out.

Shelby’s house was only about a twenty minute walk but it was cold and Toni was only wearing her basketball shorts and her mom’s jacket that she promptly put over Shelby’s shoulders.

“Are you still—” Shelby swallowed hard, “You’re still living with your mom?”

“Mostly with Martha,” Toni said.

“Martha’s great,” Shelby said. “She’s so pretty it makes my eyes hurt.”

“One of our finest,” Toni grunted as Shelby nearly fell on her heels again.

“She could be a model,” Shelby told her. “We should get waffle house.”

“Shelbs, we’re nowhere near a waffle house.”

“What was Becca’s order? At waffle house?”

Toni sighed, looping an arm around her. “I dunno.”

“Neither do I,” Shelby said.

“I’m sorry, Shelby,” Toni said.

Shelby shook her head and stopped right there, circling her arms around Toni and pressing her into a hug. Toni closed her eyes, holding her back as tightly as she dared.

“Oh, Shelby, I’m so fucking sorry.”

———

“Day two!” Mr. Williams calls. He taps the poem again, “I will investigate the handwriting if the poet doesn’t come forward by Friday. I know it’s someone in one of my classes.”

His eyes narrow as he takes them all in and his eyes don’t linger on Toni. Not even for a moment.

There’s a part of her that wants to march up to the front of the room and write her name down, make eye contact with everyone who never even considered her before. But no one expects shit from her, and even if he does go over the handwriting he won’t really be able to pin it on her. He might not even bother checking to see if it matches.

Toni tries not to jump when Marcus takes the seat in front of her during quant lit. It’s not like they have assigned seating but everyone sticks to the same seats anyway. Marcus won’t get shit for it though, perks of being the quarterback.

“So, listen,” he scratches the back of his head and Toni rolls her eyes at him. “I know we aren’t really friends but I—um.”

“Marcus,” Toni says.

“I wanna ask Martha out,” Marcus rushes out. “She’s like the nicest, smartest, coolest girl in the school and like her eyes are out of this world radical.” Radical? “And I would take her somewhere nice like Olive Garden. Or Cheesecake Factory? And pay for it, and open all the doors for her, and I’d carry her books to class—”

“On your date? This is happening during school?” Toni asks.

His eyebrows furrow as he tries to connect the dots. Football players.

“Oh no! I meant like, after, if she wants me to,” He says. “Can I?”

“Can you what?”

“Can I ask her out?”

Toni blinks at him. “What?”

“My buddy said if you want to get with a girl you get close to the best friend first, and I figured I’d ask you for your blessing because that’s what they do in old fashioned stuff right?” He bounces up in down in his seat. “Can I? Or like, do you wanna give me your blessing?”

She feels like she’s having an aneurysm.

Listen, Marcus having feelings for Martha is one thing. Everyone on the planet who’s ever met Martha falls a little in love with her. That’s kinda just how she operates. Toni narrowly avoided that pitfall by being lucky enough to know her since she was five, but it was a tough time. But Marcus was never gonna act on it. Marcus can’t—he’s the quarterback.

It’s basic math, Marcus is a six foot five football player with shoulders wide enough to bench press the Subaru Forrester Toni’s legally required to buy when she turns thirty-two. He’s got that all American boy smile that shows of perfectly white teeth, and dark hair that sweeps in front of his eyes. His face looks like it was sculpted out of marble, like literally he looks like some sort of roman god, except if that roman god volunteered at the humane society on the weekends and called his mom Mami.

Martha is a res girl who’s best friend is the dyke with anger issues. And like yeah, she’s stupid pretty, but Marcus has exclusively dated varsity cheerleaders since the seventh grade.

So yeah, even if Marcus may have feelings for Marty, everyone fucking does, and there’s a host of reasons why she doesn’t have a date to every dance and a new guy every week. And most of them are the cliche high school movie hierarchy sort.

“It’s really none of my business, man,” she says.

“Dude, it’s totally your business,” Marcus says. He leans closer, “you two are like sisters right? What do I gotta do to prove I’m not gonna hurt her? I’ll do your math homework for a month, no two months.”

A thought occurs to Toni and it’s a terrible one. But when has that ever stopped her?

“You’re in my honors English class right?”

Marcus’s face screws in, “Uh, yeah. But I don’t think you want me doing your homework in there, I’m like totally failing.”

“I have a better idea.”

———

5.) she touches you like youre fragile, and if you break you wont be able put yourself together again

Dot was asleep which was Toni’s first indication that something was deeply wrong. The second was that Shelby wasn’t. She was definitely trying her darnedest, but Toni could tell she was awake. Awake in her arms.

Toni shifted, just enough to let Shelby know she was awake too. The movie was some horror flick, something dumb and flashy and almost muted it was so quiet. It was the only thing rated R that they could all agree on. Dot’s house was the only place they were allowed to watch anything rated R when they were still thirteen, so it was all they watched there.

She felt Shelby shift up, so her head rested on Toni’s chest, shifted until her lips met Toni’s clavicle.

Toni wondered if she’d die.

Shelby went up instead of down, pressing kisses up the length of Toni’s neck, soft barely there things that made Toni’s breath catch as she watched Dot snore on the couch next to them.

Toni’s hands moved to the inside of Shelby’s thighs and they stared there, tracing delicate patterns that only made Shelby curl closer.

“I think you’re probably the most beautiful girl I ever saw,” Shelby whispered.

“I—”

“I’m not done.”

Toni’s mouth clamped shut.

“I think about you all the time,” Shelby whispered. “Even when I—”

“Shelby,” Toni warned. Shelby pressed a kiss to the corner of her mouth.

“You’re right,” Shelby said.

Neither of them slept that night.

———

Toni walks into class three minutes late with Mr. Williams, and takes her seat with a sulk.

“He still won’t let me redo that paper,” Toni mutters to Martha who’s eyes are wide.

“Toni, Marcus just—” She nods her head at the poem where Mr. Williams is studying it too.

“Marcus Gonzales?” Mr. Williams asks.

Marcus gets to his feet.

“You wrote this?”

“Yessir.”

“This poem right here?”

“Yessir.”

Mr. Williams blinks and takes off his spectacles, setting them down on the desk. “We’ll talk after class. I should hope everyone has a copy of—”

“I wrote it for Martha,” Marcus doesn’t sit down and the entire class stares at him.

“—Franny and Zooey and I would like you all to turn to page 52. Begin by annotating—”

“Martha, can I take you out on a date?” Marcus asks.

“—this first section, and on to page 64. Remember what Seymour serves as in—”

Martha blushes hard and glances at Toni who smiles before she looks back at Marcus in all his golden boy 6’5” glory.

“Um, okay,” she mutters out and he grins.

“Cool.” Marcus finally sits and gives Toni a thumbs up. She rolls her eyes.

“—this story and compare that to his roles in the other parts of the work we’ve read.”

“I told you it was for you, girl,” Shelby says on Martha’s other side. “People always have a way of surprising you.”

———

6.) she is all bubblegum skies and chapped stick kisses, and you cannot watch the love run out of another persons eyes

They were all a little bit slap happy by the end of the night. A little bit drunk, a little bit high, and laughing far too hard at one another.

“I’m scared,” Shelby told them, still grinning wider than any pageant smile.

“Girl, you picked dare,” Fatin said.

“I did,” Shelby bit her lip. “But all y’all dared Leah to do was finish the vodka.”

“That was—that was bad vodka,” Leah slurred from her position on Dot’s lap.

“But now we’re out of vodka,” Martha sang. “You picked dare.”

“I’ll go with you,” Toni got to her feet, surprised when they were more steady than she assumed they’d be. “Two chairs right?”

“Alright,” Shelby said. “And you’ll hold my hand?”

“Sure princess,” Toni rolled her eyes.

It was an office supply place, probably. The parking lot had this killer decline, and it was one of those spring nights where nothing could really ruin anything. Not forever.

The rolling chairs were kinda gross, left there but not yet picked up by the garbage men. They had to do a special pickup for that, which costed extra. No one in the office had done it for the weeks the girls had been going there after parties.

“Be careful,” Nora urged.

“Don’t fall,” Rachel suggested.

“Hold on, I’m not recording yet,” Fatin said. “Okay now go.”

They pushed off in their rolling chairs, holding hands, and sped down the decline laughing as they barely managed to hold on and steer at the same time.

Toni went flying as she bumped into a patch of grass and for some reason, Shelby went flying with her, landing on top. Toni grunted, but she wasn’t in pain, not really.

They met eyes.

“Sorry,” Shelby said. She didn’t sound sorry.

“You okay?” Toni asked.

Shelby smiled, this real soft thing, Toni wondered what it’d taste like.

“Fuck yeah bitches! I’m so putting that on snapchat!” Fatin screamed and Shelby pulled away, turning white.

“God if this is you in in freshman year, I’m terrified of you as a senior,” Toni called back.

Shelby’s hand slipped out of her’s and Toni tried very very hard not to overthink it.

———

“So I’ve been thinking,” Leah said. Toni took her gym bag out of her locker, pretty much the only thing she kept in there.

“Oh no.”

“Rachel was right about that poem being written by a girl,” Leah continued. “Which meant Marcus lied. And Marcus would never do that unless someone gave him permission to take credit. And since Marcus lied so he could ask Martha out that means the person who wrote the poem wanted Martha to be happy.”

Toni swallowed hard and tried not to fumble with the lock, stumbling with it.

“Toni,” Leah walked over to her. “You need to face the facts: Shelby’s into you.”

Toni blinked, “What?”

“She wrote that whole poem for you, don’t tell me you don’t see it. It’s about you!”

“She—” Toni stopped and furrowed her brow, finally making eye contact with Leah, “You think she wrote that poem for me?”

Leah nodded, “And she let Marcus take the credit. Listen, I know I’m right. I’ve been thinking about it for ages. Whatever fight the two of you had—you need to get over it. She’s into you, Toni. She’s been into you.”

“You have no fucking idea what you’re talking about,” Toni told her. “Seriously, fuck you Leah and fuck off. This is none of your fucking business.”

“You aren’t denying it,” Leah crowed. “Shelby likes you.”

“No she fucking doesn’t!” Toni spat at her. “She fucking hates me! She didn’t write that poem Marcus did! For Martha!”

Leah’s brow furrowed, “But… but you wanted her to. Didn’t you?”

Toni looked away.

“Shelby’s actually straight, isn’t she?” Leah asked. “Fuck Toni.”

“I’m happy for Martha,” Toni said, and marched away.

———

7.) if you jump, she might catch you, and then youd have to watch as she tumbled through the dark

“What if we ran away?” Shelby asked, which was Toni’s third indication that the punch was spiked.

The first two were her arms wrapped around Toni’s waist, swaying in the soft breeze to the distant music of Junior prom.

“Oh yeah?” Toni asked. “Where’d we go?”

“Peru,” Shelby said. “Or LA, or New York or—” Shelby sort of trailed off, losing her thought halfway through it.

“Our parents,” Toni pointed out. She’d moved in with Martha a few months ago but her mom had taken it as a wakeup call, promising to get her shit back together as soon as she could. Toni couldn’t help but believe her, even if it put her in stasis.

“Right,” Shelby sounded cold, “Our parents.”

“Are things worse with them?” Toni asked.

“No,” Shelby said. “The same, really. They’ve lightened up since—since Becca. Have you heard from your mom?”

“Every week or so,” Toni said. “And if you ever need a break you know—“

“Martha is happy to have me,” Shelby finished.

Toni smiled and pulled away enough to meet Shelby’s eyes, her hands slid from behind Shelby’s neck to either side.

“Did I tell you you look beautiful tonight?” Toni asked.

“You did,” Shelby said.

“Can I say it again?”

“You can.”

“You look beautiful tonight.” Shelby closed her eyes and Toni tucked a lock of hair behind her ear. “You’re gonna get out, you know that right?”

Shelby nodded, leaning into Toni’s hand.

Later, Toni will learn that was one of two lies Shelby told that night.

———

Martha gets home at 11:30, exactly when Marcus promised, and Toni smiles as her sister collapses backwards into her bed.

“Toni,” she actually giggles, giggles like a little school girl. “It was amazing.”

“Where’d you go?” Toni asks.

“Olive Garden, I think he was trying to win points with you,” Martha says.

“As he should,” Toni nods.

“He was the perfect gentleman,” Martha swoons. She rolls onto her stomach and looks at Toni and oh god, Toni knows that look. “He did tell me something about you, though.”

“Oh yeah? How I’m better in quant lit than him?” Toni asks.

“He told me you wrote the poem,” she says.

Toni looks away, “Okay, and?”

“You told me you were over Regan,” Martha says.

“It’s complicated,” Toni decides. “And whatever. I wrote it awhile ago anyway.”

“Have you thought about submitting it to that contest Mr. Williams was talking about?” Martha asks.

“Can we go back to talking about your date with Prince Charming?” Toni says. Martha acquiesces, she’s too damn giddy to do anything else.

———

8.) her gaze is too gentle. you will not be the one to tell her that not everything can be fixed with a smile

“Toni,” Dot began, and Toni could tell she was looking at her. “Toni, is Shelby—is she gay?”

Toni snickered, “Dot, Shelby is possibly the biggest straight girl in our school. Maybe our state. She’d sooner give herself a buzzcut than she would ever even kiss a girl."

“Andrew said Shelby got a job as a counselor at this church camp—Guiding Light—in Plano,” Dot said. “I wanted to find the address so I could write to her and it’s a conversion camp.”

The breath left Toni’s body.

“What?”

“And I got to thinking,” Dot said. “About what a mess she was after Becca died this year. Ignoring us, going to all those parties, signing up for a crazy number of pageants. Hell, it was only once you two started talking that she talked to us again.”

“Stop it, Dot.”

“Toni is Shelby gay?”

“Dot,” Toni said.

“Because if she’s gay, if she’s not there as a camp counselor—Toni, did you know about this?”

“Of course not! Jesus!” Toni said. She jumped to her feet and started to pace, “Jesus Christ. Oh my god.”

“Toni is Shelby gay?”

Toni looked at Dot and Dot sighed, her entire body sagging.

“What do we do?” Toni asked.

Dot, her solid, steady, friend since fucking youth soccer was silent.

“Dot, what do we do?”

“Dot, what the fuck do we do?”

———

Shelby finds her before school, Toni smoking like she hasn’t since ninth grade when Bernice gave her a stern lecture about lung cancer. It made Toni cry, actually. Not because it was so stern but because Martha and Toni had been separated for three years and Bernice still cared enough to get angry with her. She promised then and there to stop, and each drag she took now makes her feel like she’s committing treason.

“Smokin’ kills,” Shelby tells her, like they didn’t all go to Dot’s dad’s funeral last year.

Toni takes another drag, just to watch Shelby roll her eyes.

“How’d Martha’s date go last night?” Shelby asks.

Toni glares, “Seriously? You avoid me all year and now you’re asking about Martha’s date?” Shelby looks away. “It went fine. Whatever.”

“I just—I was surprised Marcus wrote that poem is all.”

“You literally said multiple times you thought it was him,” Toni says.

“I know, I know but—”

“Still holding out hope for Andrew?” Toni sneers. “Marcus may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but he cares about Martha. Even a fucking idiot could write a half decent poem if they had someone worth writing about.”

Shelby meets her eyes and Toni’s breath catches.

“Know a lot about poetry, Toni?”

Fuck fuck fuck.

Toni flicks the only half used cigarette away. “I have to go to class,” She says, aware it’s just about the worst thing she can do.

Shelby doesn’t even need the last word, she’s aware she’s already won.

———

9.) she is so good. she is so good, and you cannot ruin one more good thing

It hadn’t been the first time Toni found her mom overdosed on the couch, but it’d been the most terrifying. Toni had waited in the school parking lot for a pick up for twenty minutes before Shelby had offered her a ride.

When they trooped inside, after having to use the key Tamera kept tucked away in a loose brick, her mom had been passed out on the couch. And the stupid thing had been that Toni had known her mom hadn’t been doing great. Like she’d known Tamera had lost her job, and was close to losing the car, that the pain in her back had been getting worse again from stress. Toni had known that.

But for some stupid, naive reason, Toni had never thought she’d pull this, go back to who she was.

Her tolerance was low, the doctors had told her, because she’d been clean for so long. She hadn’t realized it and had taken more than she could handle.

Shelby had taken the three of them to the hospital, helped carry Toni’s drooling mother into the ER, and held Toni’s hand until the other girls showed up, who she texted to come.

Shelby had been there when the police and social services came to talk to her about going back into foster care. Shelby had never left her side.

Toni couldn’t help but contrast that to the Shelby she saw now. The Shelby who showed up for senior year was barely christian, barely anything, just sort of blank and empty and waiting to grow up so she could have daughters that'd also wait to grow up so that they could have daughters that’d also wait to grow up so that they could have daughters that’d also

Shelby didn’t even look at her, for the first week of senior year she didn’t even look at Toni. She talked with Martha in that faux friendly way, she passed off on lunch invitations to do school work and Toni felt like she was going insane.

Sometimes she would just stare at the back of Shelby’s head in English class, writing whatever gibberish came to mind, and not listening to Mr. Williams at all. Just stare, for forty-five minutes, at a girl who wouldn’t even make eye contact, Toni’s pencil moving rapidly as she barely even glanced at the words her hands produced.

On the last day of the semester Toni finally looked away and came to two realizations:

a. Her mother was never getting better. Not really. b. Toni had written P E R U over forty times in her notebook.

As quietly as she could she tore the page out, and maybe about fifteen pages behind it, filled with similar drivel and recycled them at the end of class.

When the next semester started the seats were changed and something she’d written that she barely remembered was on the board.

Her mother was still in rehab.

———

Toni watches Marcus carry Martha’s backpack to class and watches as Martha giggles at him, argues with him. She is literally so happy it makes Toni’s heart burst.

“Shelby’s quite the matchmaker, huh?” Fatin asks.

Toni looks at her.

“Leah told me,” Fatin explains.

Toni rolls her eyes.

“Yeah, that’s what I said too,” Fatin says. “Leah’s good at noticing things but putting the pieces together is not her strong suit. So I called Dorothy.”

This makes Toni’s shoulders tense and Fatin wraps an arm around them.

“Dorothy didn’t want to talk but what she didn’t say was enough.” Fatin sighs, “I’m all for a little drama but this is cutting into my me time.”

“What going from twenty-four hours a day to twenty-three and a half?” Toni asks.

“God forbid,” Fatin nods sagely. “I didn’t know you could write.”

“I can’t.”

“Clearly not.”

Toni slips out from under her arm, and follows Martha into class. Mr. Williams glares as she comes in and Toni realizes if Marcus came clean to Martha he definitely came clean to Mr. Williams. At least the poem is off the board.

When he passes out papers from a recent essay her’s has a “see me after class” sticker that makes Toni slide down in her seat. Martha doesn’t even notice enough to give her an odd look because she and Shelby are yukking it up about the quarterback.

When everyone files out she hangs back and he looks at her, over his spectacles.

“I’m disappointed,” he says at last.

Toni scoffs.

“You write essays based off spark notes, you never participate, and half the time you don’t even do the homework. But you write this.” He slides the crumpled paper over his desk, her poem shining back at her. “So all I can conclude is that you’re lazy.”

Yeah, obviously.

“Why did you have Marcus tell everyone he wrote it?” Mr. Williams asks.

“So he could ask out Martha.”

“He didn’t need to have written the poem to do that,” Mr. Williams says.

“Can I go?” Toni asks.

“I want to submit this poem to a contest, I want you to start trying in this class, and this,” he hands her a slip of paper with about twenty sets of numbers on it, “is a list of Dickinson poems I want you to read by next week. Pick at least three to write me at least a page about. Single spaced.”

“What?” Toni asks, “You can’t make me do that.”

“I know half the kids in this class write off spark notes, I can easily have them all—including you—fail. So yes, yes I can actually.” He takes off his spectacles and Toni glares at him. “You’re a smart kid, Toni. You’ve got a talent for this.”

Toni shakes her head, “I’m a one hit wonder.”

“You know Britney Spears said the same thing after Baby One More Time.”

“That’s not true,” Toni says.

“Yeah,” Mr. Williams says. “Because she kept working at it.”

And Toni takes the slip of paper with the numbers on it, and marches to her next class and he watches her the whole way, not bothering to put on his stupid spectacles.

———

10.) you will not watch her crumble under the weight of your sins. she is too light, too breathless to be caught up in the dizziness of your heart

Dot didn’t invite them all to the funeral but they came anyway, even Shelby who Toni knew had been waffling back and forth.

Some of his army friends showed up, a doctor or two, and Mateo—the hot nurse Dot steadily ignored. It was a small and quiet service, and the seven of them sat towards the back, holding steady for her.

There was too much on Dot’s shoulders, there always had been, but she didn’t look any freer now that the burden was lifted. She just looked scared, small, and sad.

Toni couldn’t help but wonder if that was what she’d look like, if she got the call about her mom. It was a terribly selfish thought but who could blame her?

Shelby’s hands interlocked with hers, in broad daylight, and stayed there for the entire day. When Toni met her eyes she saw pure terror reflected back at her.

God, were they really only seventeen?

———

Rachel is complaining at lunch about owing Nora five bucks, how she was so sure some closet case wrote the poem but it’s no surprise Nora got it right.

Fatin and Leah don’t contribute and Martha probably wouldn’t have either except she was eating lunch with Marcus, they had found their own little table and were smiling at one another.

“They’re certainly cute together,” Shelby says, glancing back at Martha and Marcus.

“I say it’s weird they have the same name,” Rachel says.

“Says the girl who dated a guy named Raymond,” Nora says.

Rachel throws a straw wrapper at him, “That was a phase and you know it.”

“Marcus is sweet,” Shelby says. “If anyone deserves someone sweet it’s Martha.”

“Don’t you think he’s a little,” Leah trailed off and they all looked at her. “You know a little…”

“Spit it out, Leah,” Rachel says.

“Like the porch lights on but no one’s home?” Leah says.

“Martha is smart enough for the both of them,” Toni says. “And thank god because I was sick of doing his homework in quant lit.”

“That’s literally the easiest math class there is,” Fatin says and Toni shrugs.

“What’s that?” Shelby asks, pointing at the yellow slip sticking out of Toni’s binder.

“Some extra credit stuff, from Williams. Apparently I’m not doing so hot in that class,” Toni says.

Rachel leans way over from the other end of the table. “What is that, Dickinson?”

“It’s a list of numbers,” Shelby says. “Why would it be Dickinson?”

“All of Dickinson’s poems were numbered. It was only after she died that other people named them,” Nora says.

“And Nora said it so you know it’s true,” Rachel smirks.

“Join the fucking club,” Dot says to Toni. “I don’t know why y’all didn’t take non-honors English twelve with me. We just sit around and talk about whatever football game was on the most recently.”

“Well I’ve never liked football so.” Toni gets up, “I’ve gotta talk to my science teacher. I’ll see you guys after school.”

“I’ll go with you,” Shelby smiles and Toni clenches her jaw. “Ms. Roberts said I needed to rework my psych paper.”

“See you guys,” Rachel says and as they leave she’s arguing with Dot about why football is stupid and Toni can feel Fatin’s eyes on her all the way out.

———

reasons to kiss her

1.) she loves you, and her eyes are closed, and didnt your mother ever tell you not to leave a good thing waiting

Toni hated the magnet program kids at her middle school. Like everyone not in their cluster she found them annoying, rich, and privileged as fuck. They only hung out with each other and it was clear they’d never give—

———

“Toni?”

The stair well is empty, it’s the short cut through the language hallway and no one goes there during lunch.

Toni is working hard on ignoring Shelby but is forced to turn around when Shelby stops halfway up.

“Ms. Roberts doesn’t need me to rework my psych paper.”

Toni stares at her.

Shelby takes a step up, one step closer to Toni.

“I had hoped maybe you wrote it for Regan,” Shelby says.

“No such luck,” Toni croaks out.

“That’s a lot of reasons not to kiss someone,” Shelby says. “You’d think if you really shouldn’t kiss someone you’d only need the one.” She takes another step up, until they’re only separated by a few inches.

“I guess,” Toni says.

“Are you really gonna keep me waiting?” Shelby says.

Toni blinks, “You mean you still—”

“I have to do everything myself,” Shelby says.

She kisses her.

#did something different with time than i usually do #and with structure #lmk what you think #shoni #the wilds fanfic #the wilds #goodfoe fanfic #goodfoe #shelby goodkind #toni shalifoe #gus writes #ren don’t

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mychemicalrachel · 4 years ago

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So I finished season 2 of Love Victor a few days ago but I needed time to process because that was a lot and part of processing is reviewing/reflecting, which I’m gonna post here. Everything under the cut because I ramble.

(also, it’s anti Victor/Rahim. Venji is endgame and you can pry that from my cold dead hands. Skip this if that’s not for you. I’m not posting this to start drama. Just my opinions.)

To start off, I liked this season. I’m gonna trash it a little, but it’s done with love. There were a lot of things I wanted to see after season 1 and, surprisingly, I got a lot of those things! Such as…

I wanted more Felix and Pilar. Which we got. I did not want it like this. I’m not opposed to them together, I like them, but I wanted Felix and Lake to stay together. HOWEVER, I’m kinda glad they broke up because y’all it’s paving the way for bi Lake (another thing I really wanted) and I cannot wait to see her and Lucy together.

Kind of following along with that, I really wanted them to give Pilar more friends this season. And they did that with Rahim. And then they took Rahim away and gave him to Victor instead. Guys, this is killing me. I want to see Pilar with actual friends, give her more of a social life I am begging you.

JACK. I knew, I just KNEW, that we were going to get a Spier cameo this season and I honestly kind of expected it to be Emily, maybe Nora, but I am so happy it was Jack. He’s grown so much since Love Simon.

I wanted to see Mia portrayed as her own person and not a villain. She was justified in her anger and betrayal because Victor hurt her. They handled it really well I think. She’s such a good friend. I’m also glad we got more of her and Veronica bonding. I can’t wait to see Mia with the baby, that’s gonna be so cute.

I wanted more Andrew and this season did not disappoint. He was like the cool uncle that everyone went to for advice.

Now, with all of that said, I did get a lot of things I wanted from this season. I also got things I did not want. I was actually really excited when they introduced Rahim and kind of went full circle by having him go to Victor for advice. I was like, hell yeah! Gays who can be friends without being all over each other! And then they started this love triangle thing and I kind of hated it. I liked Victor and Rahim as friends, I want more of that because I think Victor (and Rahim, too, to be honest) could use more queer friends. Just friends. They built up this entire relationship between Benji and Victor in season 1 and spent a lot of this season confirming that yeah Benji and Victor are in love even though they have some tough times, and now I’m just supposed to accept that Victor has started having feelings for someone else? No thank you, please stop.

And that leads me to things I want to see in season 3!

Victor chose Benji obviously. You cannot convince me otherwise. Someone he started having feelings for when he was going through a mentally distressing time in his life fails in comparison to the guy he spent an entire season falling in love with.

Now I’m not discounting Victor’s feelings. I’m sure he felt something for Rahim, but we need to acknowledge that Victor was in the middle of a stressful time. He had only recently come out, he was dealing with his mom not accepting him or his boyfriend, he quit the basketball team, he was struggling with his place in his and Benji’s relationship and then Benji wanted to “take a break”. He can’t be blamed for latching onto someone who wholly accepted him and made him feel normal.

Also, it’s fairly common to play into the trope of “this character is new to being gay, he can’t just be with one person so we have to add another love interest and make sure what he’s feeling for person A is real.”

That said! Benji will probably feel insecure now! And that’s okay! Let’s explore that! Let’s allow Benji to be the one who's insecure in this relationship for once instead of always having Victor be the one to doubt everything! They don’t have to break up to take a step back and slow things down!

As such, I really want to go back to the Victor/Benji roots. Make them friends again. I want stupid cute moments like them dancing to Call Me Maybe and trying on thrift store clothes. We spent so much of this season making Victor and Benji boyfriends that we kind of skipped over the whole friends aspect. There’s a reason they fell in love in the first place and we need to revisit that. A relationship is not just sex and miscommunication. It’s laughing together, it’s enjoying each other's company, and I didn’t see nearly enough of that between Victor and Benji this season.

They were not at all subtle with the parallels between Felix and Victor this season; Felix having to choose between Lake and Pilar while Victor has to choose between Rahim and Benji. I mean, I don’t think it was supposed to be subtle. It couldn’t have been more obvious. And at first I was worried that Felix chose Pilar because of the parallels and that must mean Victor was going to choose Rahim. But the longer I look at it, the more differences I notice in their parallels and I don’t have the eloquence to unpack it all right now, but it all just made me more assured that Victor is going to choose Benji.

Moving away from Victor/Benji, there’s something that keeps bothering me; it’s when Felix and Lake had sex at the lake. Cute romantic moment, yeah sure, I probably wouldn’t have thought much of it, except it made a deal out of Felix buying condoms beforehand. He was prepared. That’s good. Only, when they went out to jump into the lake, they only had towels. Which means that there is a very good chance they didn’t use protection. That, coupled with Georgina’s comment about watching Teen Mom...I foresee a pregnancy scare in the coming season. Whether it’s an actual pregnancy and we get a whole pregnancy storyline (possibly an abortion, maybe a miscarriage. I don’t really see it going full term for whatever reason) or if it’s just an episode where Lake thinks she might be pregnant.

I’m pretty excited to see how they handle this newfound romance between Lucy and Lake. Does Lake already know she’s bi? Does Lucy? Lake made a comment at the beginning of this season about making sure everyone knew Mia didn’t turn Victor gay, which makes me wonder how Lake will react to discovering she also likes girls. No, I’m not saying she’ll think Felix turned her into a lesbian. But I think she’ll doubt her feelings for Lucy. She’ll think (however briefly) that maybe she was just hurt and maybe she doesn’t actually like Lucy, she’s just coping with having her heart broken by a boy.

But I want all of her doubt to end when she accepts that she’s totally bisexual.

Now that we got our bi character, I’m gonna start demanding an ace character, too.

I want Mia’s mom to be awesome. Her dad kind of sucks and she deserves at least one good parent.

HOWEVER, if her mom also sucks, I think it could bring her and Veronica closer.

Speaking of parents, I want to explore Lake’s relationship with her mom more. She always tells Felix about how she was pressured to be skinny, and that right there is a terrible basis for a mother/daughter relationship. But she also felt comfortable enough to tell her about Felix’s mom and ask for help. So yeah, I definitely want more of them. I need Lake to stand up to her mom, though. I need her to be like, “you made me insecure in my body and I have self esteem issues because you made me think I wasn’t good enough” and I want to expand on that. Maybe Georgina had a good reason (in her mind, anyway) to treat Lake like that, and while it may have been a horrible thing to do, I don’t think she saw it that way. I’m not saying she should win a mother of the year award, but what she did to Lake needs to be acknowledged and talked about.

And then there’s Felix’s mom. I want to see her recovery. It’s a process and I don’t want her to magically be okay now. I also want her to meet Pilar (and Victor. Has Victor ever met her?) but also she really liked Lake and I want them to keep in touch, even though Lake and Felix aren’t together anymore. I still want them to be friends.

AND I HAVEN’T EVEN STARTED TALKING ABOUT ISABEL AND ARMANDO. I’m glad they found their way back to each other, but again; it’s a process. I think they should stay apart for a little bit and not just jump back in where they left off. They still have problems to sort through, but this is a start. They’ve realized they want to be together.

#love victor #love victor 2 #venji #i don't want to tag this as anti Rahim #because i like rahim #just not in a romantic relationship with victor #so anti vahim i guess #is that what people are calling it?#idk but also idc #love victor spoilers #i think that's all my thoughts for now #all of them that i can process anyway

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incorrectaftg · 4 years ago

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Hi ! I just wanted to ask what you think about andreil getting married. I mean, Nora said they didn't but it seems like most of the fandom is ignoring that and I'm not so sure why ? I mean, it's not like it adds anything to their relationship, they don't need it and they repeatedly showed that they don't give a fuck about what people think. Marriage is also linked to pretty much only negative things in their lives, it's a social construct and it just doesn't seem to me like something they'd do. They're not exactly the types of guys to do conventional things.

Maybe it's an American thing, but I really don't understand the craze around marriage, and it historically is an super harmful institution. Plus, it's not like it really means anything when it comes to love, and I hate that most people just assume that if you really love someone you have to get married to them. Almost no one in my family is married, doesn't mean they love their partners any less.

Anyway, I guess I'm just not that comfortable with the idea of marriage and therefore I don't get why people seem to think it's so important.

I hope you have a great day !

Much love from France !

hello there and i’m SO unbelievably sorry for my late ass answer. i kind of ran out of my meds and forgot i existed on tumblr for a hot second!

but i personally agree with nora that andrew and neil wouldn’t get married, or at least not out of love. it’s not something they need, matching gold (or silver, or other material) rings and having the same/a combination of their last names to show how much they mean each other is completely unnecessary to them. their relationship is as secure as it can be, they trust each other completely and they know they love each other; there’s no need for marriage or the actual words “i love you” to show it to anyone else (especially when small actions speak louder than words for them). does that make sense?

the only way i could see them getting married is after neil gets hurt in an exy game (because he’s a junkie and stupid and puts too much into that stupid sport and bla, bla. we get it, andrew) and lands in the hospital and the people refuse to let andrew in because “only members of his family are allowed to see mr josten, sorry sir” and andrew’s like “fuck you” and asks neil “yes or no?” and neil’s like “yes? i always want to kiss you” and then andrew’s like “you’re a fucking moron” and drops an engagement ring on neil’s lap

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bloody-wonder · 4 years ago

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re: the ask you previously answered about kandreil, do you think — aside from shippers having overly aggressive approaches sometimes —interpreting anything romantic or sexual in the text with Kevin and Neil erases Neil’s demisexuality? I’ve always been unsure of that as I’m not a-spec, and I know that there are a-spec aftg fans who ship kandreil but I’ve never seen a discussion about Neil’s demisexuality specifically regarding it. Not sure I’m wording this right, just curious what you think.

well it’s a good and complicated question!

i’ve been thinking about it for the last couple of days and instead of giving a clear and concise answer i’m going to acesplain demisexuality and canonsplain neil josten in another lengthy post.

so there are two components to this question - 1) whether kevineil interactions are romantic or sexual 2) whether asserting that they are erases neil’s demisexuality.

1) so first of all kevineil is where the aroace dogma “relationships can be intense without being romantic or sexual and interpreting every such relationship as potentially romantic or sexual erases the experiences of many (not only) arospec/aspec people” clashes with the shipping culture dogma “these two characters glanced at each other once or had an ambiguous dialogue or both like bread and are therefore with a 95% probability already in love”. what can i say to people who think neil has romantic or sexual feelings for kevin? should i shout “people can be friends you guys are just brainwashed” at them? that seems very unproductive. this is a debate that can never be won but still i’d like to remark that interpreting kevineil interactions as romantic or sexual has more to do with this acquired urge to interpret all intense interactions as such than with what’s actually going on between the two. (bUt ThEy WeRe CaNoN iN tHe eArLiEr DrAfTs - i don’t know what you’re talking about, i’m talking about the three books that constitute aftg). i on the contrary rejoice in their romance-less dynamic and firmly believe that they wouldn’t be together even if neil weren’t demi. because some people are just friends. if neil weren’t demi it wouldn’t also be considered in any way problematic to ship kandreil, but neil is and some people like you begin to wonder - because now a rare “endangered” sexuality is involved.

2) i personally want to say yes, interpreting neil’s thoughts about kevin and interactions with him as they are presented in the books as sexual erases neil’s demisexuality - the key word being neil’s.

because demisexuality is a spectrum in itself and many aspec people will experience it differently. how strong an emotional bond does a demi need to have with a person in order to feel sexually attracted to them? it can be anything on the range from once in a lifetime soulmate to basically any person they know and like well enough. this lower side of the spectrum is where the line between demi- and allosexuality gets blurred and is probably also the reason why lots of people deny that demisexuality exists, seeing as they also usually get attracted mostly to people they know and like well enough.

anyway i suppose it’s more common for an average demi person to have had one or more of those emotional bonds that result in attraction by certain age even in order to identify as demi. so i imagine a lot of aspec fans who ship neil with foxes other than andrew, project their experience of demisexuality onto him. if you’re someone who identifies as demi, has deep emotional connection with several of your friends and feels attracted to them, you will probably want the very rare specimen of a fictional demi to have experiences similar to your own. if you’re also a kevin fan and are fascinated by the idea of kandreil, then you’re going to ship it without any concern of erasing anything. “neil’s demi and i’m demi so therefore anything i feel or do concerning sexual attraction he must feel and do as well”.

but neil’s version of demisexuality is quite different. based on andreil it really looks like he’s higher on the ace spectrum than that. even when he reaches the point where he’s like yep andrew is totally the person whom i’d let riko torture me for he still isn’t attracted to him sexually and only when andrew explicitly shows that it’s something he’s interested in does neil begin to explore the idea. when he knows he’s attracted to andrew he specifically checks if he’s able to think of his other male teammates in that way and the answer is no. but the most important thing about neil figuring out his sexuality in my opinion is the fact that he never defines himself as someone who “swings” at any person he establishes a profound connection with, but rather as someone who’s attracted only to andrew. (i’m not even sure if neil would use the demi label if he knew about it). he literally says “the only one i’m interested in is you”. so his situation looks much more like “once in a lifetime soulmate” one to me.

so the question is where do you begin to interpret neil’s sexuality? if you begin with the text then you’ll perceive him as someone who’s attracted to nobody at first and then only to andrew. (haha that’s some very wishful thinking on my part - see the shipping dogma above). but if you begin with your preconceived notions about the demi label then you might expect neil to form those special bonds that enable him to feel sexual attraction as often as you like. maybe if an average demi person was in neil’s place they would end up getting attracted to more foxes. but neil isn’t average, he isn’t a stand-in for the entire demi-dom, he’s a very specific person with a specific way of forming connections with people which is why if you want to write him in character i think it’s much more productive to take into account his personality as it’s showcased in the books than to research what demisexuality is or to self-project. so in the end what’s happening here is really not people erasing neil’s demisexuality by shipping him with this or that character but rather them erasing his canon personality by making him do the things he wouldn’t do.

that being said, fanfic is definitely the place for self-projecting and exploring things that aren’t canon. there are multiple ways to write demi neil in kandreil or other ships ranging from rewriting the canon and increasing the amount and quality of neil’s interactions with the new love interest to doing the same in post-canon to writing an au where they all come from different circumstances and nothing matters. the commonality between these types of story is that they all will be about a different version of neil with a different version of demisexuality which is just the way of fandom life and is perfectly normal.

however what i’ve been observing in post-canon kandreil fics is that the absolute majority of them are established relationship which means that their authors and readers think that whatever happens in the books between kevin and neil is enough for neil to form an emotional bond powerful enough to feel attracted to him (provided they at all agree that neil’s demi because if they don’t it’s a different kind of erasure discourse altogether). but that is just not true and totally erases neil’s demisexuality the way he experiences it. but can i really point out this particular facet of his personality being thrown over board when so many other facets get discarded along the way? neil is probably the aftg character whose canon personality gets misunderstood, ignored and rewritten the most. if a neil from some kandreil fic is a sweet peaceful gentle boi then what does it matter to me that he’s already kevin’s bf? it’s not the neil i know from the books. if neil’s canon personality isn’t important or appealing to this fic’s author then it’s only logical that the specific way neil experiences demisexuality won’t be important to them as well.

tl;dr: apart from those fans who don’t think neil’s demi and write him as allo, do kandreil shippers erase neil’s demisexuality? not necessarily. but do they rewrite the way neil experiences sexual attraction to better fit their ship? probably yes.

i want to end this by a disclaimer: like i said, i’m an aroace person talking about demisexuality which isn’t strictly my identity. andreil is very important to me as an ace because it reflects my personal understanding of relationships. of course andreil’s “once in a lifetime” soulmate situation speaks more to me as a person who doesn’t feel any kind of attraction and generally has trouble connecting to people beyond that. i can’t relate to most relationships i see in fiction because they are founded on attraction which is a language i don’t understand, so nora writing andreil in a language i could understand was a pretty big deal to me. consequently i feel very sceptical towards all other ships including kandreil because my views of romance are ace, not even demi. so basically i’m biased too.

#neil josten #demisexuality #kevin day #andrew minyard #all for the game #aftg mine #asks #i don't even want to tell how long i've been writing this monstrosity #is this jumble of words intelligible at all?#idc anymore #gonna go reblog some gifsets now #i earned it #aftg ask

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wheredidthe80sgo · 4 years ago

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Should I read All For The Game?

A fan’s perspective, in case you were wondering whether or not you needed this mafia-sports series in your life (hint: I think you do).

(This post was made by a fan for people who may want to become fans. I was unsure about first reading something so different to other books I’ve read, so I thought that I should just put this out there for people who might feel the same way.)

Reasons to read AFTG:

1. The fandom: I’m starting with one of my favourite things about AFTG. While the fandom is small, it’s dedicated. There is fanart and textposts and fanfiction all over the place from these dedicated people. It was so nice to read a book series and walk into a place where other people are already there, and continuing to contribute to it. And from my pov, there really isn’t that much drama which is nice (although I am on the outskirts).

2. The writing: considering you won’t find AFTG in your local bookstore as it wasn’t published by a company, the writing and storytelling is well done. Sure, it reads like a fanfiction, but sometimes it’s nice to read something self-indulgent rather than literary masterpiece. Nora did well with the world-building and the grammar and spelling is all correct (which I wanted to mention since the writing was something I was hesitant about when reading it for the first time).

3. The actual storyline: yes, it has the Japanese mafia and a made up sport, but AFTG is nothing if not entertaining. There are twists and turns which I did not expect (the end of The Raven King anyone?) and there’s always something to keep you guessing and wanting more. It might sound ridiculous, but watching Neil Josten run from the yakuza is good fun. And, like I said before, this is no literary masterpiece like Dickens or Tolstoy, so just go with it and have fun.

4. The characters: the cast of characters is one thing I love especially about these books. Yes, most of them are assholes, but somehow you fall in love with them one by one. Our protagonist, Neil Josten, is one hell of a messed up kid, and yet makes you laugh and cry many times, or maybe that’s just me. Andrew Minyard, our blond midget, is, in my one opinion, the most interesting character in the series, and certainly provides the books with something... unique. Surrounding our two leads is the Palmetto State Foxes, and a lot of them: Andrew’s twin, Aaron; their cousin, Nicky; Kevin Day, former Exy superstar; Dan Wilds, team captain and badass; Matt Boyd, Dan’s boyfriend and resident Bro; Renee Walker, good girl with a mysterious past; Allison Reynolds, beautiful heiress; Seth Gordon, absolute asshole and Allison’s sometimes boyfriend; Wymack, coach; Abby, team nurse; and Bee Dobson, their therapist. The Foxes are an extremely dysfunctional bunch, yet come together as a family (eventually). They’re moving in times, hilarious in others, and always, always brilliant. Along with the main characters, there are side characters, such as Jean Moreau and Jeremy Knox, who absolutely steal your hearts while being present in less than ten scenes (less than five for Jeremy!!). Also, if you try hard enough, the characters can all be very gay. Personally, out of all of the characters mentioned above, the only straight ones to me are Aaron and Wymack, but it’ s really up to your personal opinion. The fandom certainly has a lot of opinions on this.

5. The sports: now, I’m not a huge sports fan, but when I tell you I actually got excited for the Exy matches, I mean it. A brutal lacrosse-type game, Exy is complicated and hard to understand, yet keeps you excited. Yes, it has lots of subplots related to the yakuza, but AFTG is a sports series at heart, and Exy is certainly fun. Plus, Kevin and Neil’s over-the-top obsessions are certainly a great running gag and guaranteed to make you laugh and/or sigh at least once.

6. The relationships: finally, we arrive. As a hopeless romantic, I always need romance in my books to keep me interested, and AFTG certainly delivers. On your first read, it may not be as obvious who the intended romance is, but by the time you get to the third book (spoiler alert!!) Andrew and Neil kick off their romance and it is beautiful. Featuring one of only two representations of demisexual characters I’ve ever seen in books, AFTG is romantic and very gay while featuring things like PTSD, assault and consent throughout. I may not be the best person to talk about this, but the way consent is handled is absolutely beautiful. If you research the fandom, you would know that one of the main things Andrew and Neil are known for is ‘yes or no’. The subtle way these two handle their relationship is a great way to represent consent, showing how it doesn’t need to spoil the mood. Not only does the series have great romantic relationships, but also familial connections. The Foxes are super dysfunctional (especially a few people in particular), but they do end up being a found family, which is always something to look forward to.

7. The aesthetic: orange, white and black, cigarettes, rooftops, gay pining, knives and guns; need I say more?

Although!! While I love these books for everything they are, I understand that other people have different experiences so I feel like I should mention there are a few things in the series that could potentially trigger people, so I just want to add a trigger warning: mentions of rape/abuse, drugs and alcohol use, homophobia, explicit violence, swearing, sex (not so explicit) , use and mention of things like knives and guns, quite a bit of torture (mainly talked about, or described in flashbacks except for one scene in the third book). All of the Foxes have traumatic backstories and as they’re being targeted by the yakuza so some really bad things happen over the series to a few characters.

In conclusion (if you didn’t want to read all that), All For The Game is one of my favourite book series of all time, so of course I’m a little biased, but it truly is a good series. Very much something to read when you don’t want to take it too seriously, it has a dedicated fan base with great characters, relationships and a killer aesthetic. Everyone should say thank you Nora Sakavic for bringing this into our world (although we all collectively disregarded her canon pretty quickly). Yes, it has fanfic tropes (quite a few, now that I think about it) and it gets pretty ridiculous and cringe-worthy sometimes, but it also means a lot to a lot of people like me, and hopefully, if you’d like, it could mean something to you too.

#i hope people see this #and i hope it's ok #i just thought there should be something like this out there for people who want to read it #aftg #all for the game #tfc #the foxhole court #trk #the raven king #tkm #the king's men #nora sakavic #neil josten #andrew minyard

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adamslynches · 5 years ago

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[All of this is just my opinion, and even though I feel that I’m correct on this you’re fully entitled to disagree with me. Just leave me alone about it, thank you. Also, this isn’t proofread nor is it going to be- all typos build character lmao]

cw mentions of andrews past, defence of andrew’s healing, critique of nora sakavic’s writing specifically in aftg, critique of some andreil content that I’ve seen on tumblr.

Hmm, it’s very interesting that some people in this fandom are so adamant about the fact that Andrew will never/can never heal beyond what he already has by the end of the books.

There have already been posts about this so this isn’t anything that anyone doesn’t know, but guess who’s gonna say it anyway? Me.

Nora Sakavic gave us a wonderful world, and a cast of wonderful characters. She did, not a single person is saying that she didn’t- we all love the Foxes, and she did a pretty good job giving us some lovable characters to get us attached to her work. But, and it is a big but, she made a lot of mistakes while writing the series and just because you love the series doesn’t mean that you can’t criticise her on the many mistakes she made during the writing of aftg. I’m sure she knows that she could have done things differently/better too, so some of y’all are helping exactly no one by frothing at the mouth to defend a book series that she wrote six years ago. Anyways, next.

Andrew in particular is a wonderful character. We all know that. He went through hell in his life and despite that we see him working and striving for happiness and good mental health in the series, prioritising his own mental health over the feelings of every other person in the series (for better or worse, but either way it is an attempt at allowing himself to heal). In fact, I would go so far as to argue that the main theme of the entire series is healing, regardless of how well Nora executed it. Andrew is healing, Neil is healing- All of the Foxes are healing from the tough hand that life gave them, facilitated by Wymack and his foxes programme.

That being said, Andrew’s work is far from done by the time that the series is over and it’s worrying when in the extra content we see that Nora seems to think that it is, that Andrew can’t possibly smile and be happy and fully heal from what happened to him as much as is possible. It’s disheartening- Nora made this character that so many people can relate to, that so many people can look at and think hey, he’s like me and made him work his ass off to get better, and then still had him fail at the end? What the fuck kind of message is that? It’s no secret that Nora’s research into mental health and it’s treatment left a lot to be desired, but the least she could have done was make it work, to give Andrew the happy ending that he worked so hard for and deserved. It’s unfair to show the people who read this series that no matter what Andrew is never going to get better, no matter what he does, especially under the guise of “uwu everyone recovers differently”. Yes, everyone recovers differently, but with hard work and a good support system everyone can recover.

Next of all, marriage. In my opinion andreil get married, because that seems like the most in character decisions that Andrew and Neil could make as they move into an adult life together. Some people might not agree with that, and that’s fair enough. Headcanons are headcanons, and I don’t really care about that. What I do care about is when people, fans of this series, turn around and then use their HEADCANON of Andreil not getting married (on purpose or just implicitly) to 1. Cheapen the importance of same sex marriage because “not all gay people have to get married” and 2. Act as if Andrew could never possibly want to get married (which imo is out of character- Andrew is a man who loves not only promises but also spectacle, do you really think he wouldn’t want to promise Neil the rest of his life in the most fuck you to the rest of the world way possible?)

No one is saying that Andreil have to get married and every other headcanon is wrong, not that I’ve seen, but it’s oh so telling that the “Andrew never gets better” squad are the ones who are denying Andreil any and all forms of intimacy beyond sex, i love you shown only though actions and not words (why would Andrew not use the words? It’s never said that he’s a man of few words so people are ONLY going off the ec with this) and the odd jealousy/protectiveness fueled emotional moments of vulnerability. You have every right to say it, that Andrew will always stay stagnant and unhappy and angry at the world, but that doesn’t mean that anyone has to listen to you- healing is GOOD, recovery is IMPORTANT and Andrew deserves it. All of the foxes do.

Okay I’m gonna stop this here bc it’s getting super long and I have to go to work but I’m not interested in what anyone else has to say. I don’t want to hear any hot takes about how actually Andrew stays the edgy, angry 19 year old he was at the start of the series, I’m not interested. Andreil are in love and they deserve to do everything and anything they choose to to show it, have a nice day.

#aftg #andrew minyard #andreil #I had to go off when I saw how some people responded to Sarah's very kind and rational post #Honestly #Andrew deserves better than this yall #Andrew Minyard protection squad

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boyfriem-moved · 6 years ago

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the foxhole court bad

(aka the eden’s twilight chapter is gross, the thanksgiving chapter is also gross, andriel is an abusive ship, and nicky and andrew are two terrible people being terrible to each other, a passionate essay by a dude who’s real sick and tired of this garbage)

I was gonna try to reread the whole series so I could factually and definitively prove that tfc sucks once and for all but after 2 chapters I concluded that reading it again was killing my last 3 brain cells, so I stuck with rereading the worst two chapters and gathering a few other moments I thought were noteworthy, and we’re just gonna have to go from there. I’m gonna discuss a bunch of stuff so I’m putting the entire meta under the cut. Also! If you have no idea what tfc is and follow me for other reasons but are intrigued by my hatred I doubt you could get through this whole thing without being bored. I’ve made a couple short posts saying what’s wrong with tfc, most recently this one here, which you could read instead of this long ass mess.

If you know nothing about tfc and still wanna read, trigger warning for mentions of drug abuse, rape, physical abuse, emotional/psychological abuse, sexual abuse (both of children and adults... well of one adult who was once a child), actually. all abuse. just. don’t read if you’re triggered by any general categories of abuse

You still here? So sorry about that. Now let’s get going!

I can’t deny that there’s some sort of appeal to tfc. “Sports team for fucked up weirdos” is an interesting concept and one that can draw you in, if it’s done well. But Nora Sakavic thrives on shock value and can’t write to save her life, so it’s not done well. It’s done very, very badly. Now I’m not here to complain about the terrible writing (even though I could, believe me). I’m here to complain about how Nora writes like she gets into tumblr discourse with teenagers and makes anti blocklists. So we’ll just go in chronological order, because I think it makes the most sense that way.

Eden’s Twilight

Up until the Eden’s Twilight chapter, the bad parts are more or less excusable. Andrew is...being Andrew, but the book has just begun, and as long as he doesn’t get any worse he’s bound to have some character development soon (which ha funny joke but we’re hopeful, the night’s still young). Nicky is likable and seemingly the good guy who’s said maybe a couple iffy things, Aaron isn’t noteworthy (and boy does he stay that way), and we haven’t seen much of Kevin’s “fun alcoholism” yet.

And then there’s Eden’s Twilight. The setup to the chapter has a couple interesting moments, most notably Nicky pushing Neil to take out his contacts despite the knowledge that it makes him deeply uncomfortable because everyone just bends to the fucking whim of Andrew apparently (a running theme that I’ll get to later) and a gross bit of setup where Nicky comes onto Neil and Andrew threatens to kill him.

“...his happy expression faltered when he got a good look at Neil. “Oh man. Neil, you clean up good. Can I say that, or is that against the rules? Just--damn. Aaron, don’t let me get too drunk tonight.” (tfc pg 129)

(Nicky is an adult with a fiancee who he allegedly loves. Neil is 18. Just in case anyone’s forgotten.)

Then they go and buy some drugs! Nora shows a worrying misunderstanding of how drug withdrawal works (Nora do even one ounce of research for your shitty book please ma’am I’m begging you) and they buy some drugs with vague side effects (I have no idea if the stuff they take is based off real world drugs and I’d rather not find out) in a scene that seems unrealistic but I couldn’t tell you for sure (never bought drugs. not about to ask the people in my life who have.). They buy their drugs, Andrew takes some drugs, Nora continues to know nothing about withdrawal, they go to a nightclub! The night is still young!

And now comes the big problem area.

Their nightclub adventures begin with a complicit bartender who says, “Back so soon, Andrew? Who’s your newest victim?” (tfc pg 133). On a later page it’s established that the bartender was spiking Neil’s drinks and fully aware of everything the siblings planned to do (as is routine with them? apparently?) so. Fun guy.

They do some drugs, drink some alcohol. Neil refuses to do both. Andrew and Nicky are adamant about him doing drugs with them, but he refuses, so they concede.

“Drink with us if you won’t dust with us,” Nicky said, holding his open packet in one hand and his shot in the other.

And Neil does. Because there’s no reason not to, really. Andrew’s gang accepted it when he said he didn’t drink. They’ve so far not forced him to do anything he doesn’t want to. He watched the bartender pour his drink. He has no reason to suspect he won’t be fine.

So, of course, his drink is drugged, and Andrew, Aaron, and Nicky hold him down as he tries to run away. The twins force him onto the dance floor, then leave him with Nicky, reigning defender for World’s Most Predatory Man.

“Bodies and lights blurred around him, making Neil nauseous. He clawed bloody lines down Nicky’s arm as he fought to get free. Nicky didn’t let go until they’d reached the middle of the dance floor. He pulled Neil up against him and caught Neil’s chin in his fingers to force his head back. Nicky’s kiss was harder than Neil expected it to be, and there was more than just tongue in it. Beneath the burn of vodka Nicky shared with him was the sweet tang of cracker dust. Neil didn’t mean to swallow, but it hurt too much to hold it in his mouth. “This is how the game goes,” Nicky said against his lips. “Stop fighting if you want to survive.” (tfc pg 136)

Nicky is a good guy of the story. Not only that, he’s a fan favorite character. This isn’t even a chapter people gloss over to glorify their faves, either. People often point to this chapter and the surrounding scenes as one of the series’ most iconic moments. Neil’s night ends with him paying a bartender to knock him unconscious to put an end to the drugged abuse, which can be found near the top of pretty much everyone’s “top ten iconic Neil Josten moments” lists. This scene is fucking disgusting. He’s forcefully assaulted, allowed and encouraged by Andrew, who’s supposedly the force keeping Nicky in line, and who told him earlier in the chapter not to try anything. Aaron and Kevin are complicit in this, as is the bartender. As are the rest of the team members and Coach Wymack, even if it’s to a far lesser extent, because though they’re horrified that Andrew and his gang brought Neil to the club, they’re not surprised. For people who seemed to know it was coming, they did an awfully lax job of keeping Neil safe though they claim that’s their top priority, and Wymack hardly reprimands Andrew. And no one even shifts blame towards Nicky, despite the fact that he’s the worst person here out of all of them.

People tend to ignore Nicky in general when it comes to how bad of people all these characters are. Which is weird, because Nicky is a horrific predator, and this scene can’t be excused. Though he never assaults Neil again, he continues to be interested in him up until his lackluster apology (which, by the way, does not excuse his actions in this chapter so fuck off if you’re gonna say it does), and it’s pretty clearly implied that he only stops flirting uncomfortably with Neil (who, side note, is still barely not a child) because Andrew forces him to, and not because of any personal growth.

This should be the end of my explanation of why these books are terrible. Writing a scene like this, in which the assaulters are the good guys of the story and will, throughout the next three books, improve as people by exactly 0%, is reprehensible. There’s no coming back from that. But some of you obviously disagree, so let’s keep going.

There’s more scenes like this, one in particular, but I’m gonna talk about it later. My point is just that “token gay character is a blatant predator” is not a good look, especially when written by a straight woman.

Thanksgiving

Nora Sakavic would not know how to write a rape victim if one punched her in the face and told her she was a horrible writer. I wish I didn’t have to say more. But I obviously do, so let’s go.

(as always: necessary disclaimer that I am not a csa survivor and if anyone out there is and disagrees with me I’m more than willing to hear you out, however, i don’t think it takes one to tell that Nora Sakavic is a Fraud And Hack)

This one wasn’t quite as hard to reread as the Eden’s Twilight chapter, probably because even though the acts are worse, it doesn’t have a bad message overall. The rapist is, thank god, the bad guy in this one.

It does, however, have problems. Because Nora is still unable to write about serious issues without incorporating scenes purely for the purpose of shock value.

Like, y’all, it’s really not hard to say “this character was raped as a child and has problems with consent and intimacy because of it”. You don’t need to bring the rapist into the story and have them rape the character again only for the main characters to walk in on it and kill the rapist with a lacrosse racket.

Oh yeah, spoilers, that’s exactly what happens.

The chapter starts out fine. If anything, it’s tame for a chapter of a book out of The World’s Most Unnecessarily Over The Top Book Series.

The basic setup is: Nicky’s parents have invited him and the twins home for Thanksgiving after being estranged for 5 years. Andrew refuses to go. He won’t tell anyone why, but after a talk with him Neil learns that it’s because he was raped by his stepbrother and when he confided in Nicky’s dad about it, Nicky’s dad told him it was a misunderstanding.

Y’all know what that is? Perfectly fucking adequate writing. We learn this thing about Andrew’s past. He has, for probably the only time in this entire series, adequate motivation to do something. But Ms. Sakavic, known Fraud And Hack, said fuck that. We need more. We need to really know what Andrew went through. “Like in a longer conversation sequence?” Someone sensible asked. Nora shook her head. “Like in the second worst scene I have ever written because I am a Fraud And Hack.”

So they go to Nicky’s house for Thanksgiving! This also gives Nora a chance to remind us all that she is a straight woman and Nicky is a gay stereotype. Andrew is on edge the entire time, but Neil manages to keep him under control for the most part. Then we learn that Nicky’s dad invited Andrew’s rapist ex-stepbrother to the house. And than they’re upstairs together. Alone.

So y’know, Neil and Aaron run upstairs, break down the door, there’s a page and a half of description of the scene of Andrew about to get raped before their very eyes, Aaron kills the rapist with a lacrosse stick (exy stick, whatever), and scene. I’m not gonna quote this one, because I don’t wanna make anyone read it, but it runs roughly from page 215-220 of The Raven King if you wanna see for yourself. Highly recommend against it. It’s nasty.

This is a chapter that goes from 0-100 in pretty much too seconds. Someone should probably tell Nora that forcing Andrew to have dinner with the man who discredited his rape is enough digging up of his traumatic past. We don’t need to go deeper. She can stop now. She should stop now. We know Andrew’s history of csa at this point. If Nora thought that wasn’t enough, there are a million ways she could go more in depth without doing this. This scene doesn’t even go more in depth. In terms of advancements in the story, all that happens is that Aaron, Kevin, and Nicky find out about Andrew’s past (something that could have happened in so many different ways) and Aaron kills a man (which doesn’t actually matter because it takes no toll on him and is never mentioned again because nora is a fraud and hack). I was appalled and horrified the first time I read it, and rightly so, because that’s it’s only purpose.

And putting a rape scene in a book for the sole purpose of shocking your readers is just a nasty thing to do.

Bonus Point: Riko Moriyama Is An Evil Monster And That’s Bad Even If He Is The Villain

Riko’s an evil monster! Yeah! Obviously! We’re glad he died! He sucks! But...he’s a very badly written evil monster, and I don’t feel like unpacking all of him, but I just want to point to a couple scenes towards the end of The Raven King real quick since they fit with the whole “Nora don’t write about rape like this” theme.

I’m not gonna quote this one either because it’s Real Gross. But basically, Riko convinces Neil to spend winter break with him by telling him that he arranged for Andrew to get raped over Thanksgiving, and that if Neil doesn’t comply with his terms, he’s paid off one of the doctors at the psych ward Andrew is staying in and will get that doctor to rape him again.

So that didn’t...need to happen. It’s quite frankly disgusting that Nora wrote all this (the language in this scene is very explicit). It’s disgusting that she couldn’t think of any other way to portray her villain as evil. This is bad writing. Riko doesn’t need to be cartoonishly villainous. It’s unnecessary, it’s over the top, and it’s sickening to read.

Also? That scene at the end of The Raven King where Riko handcuffs Neil to the bed and like...stabs him and it’s never said he rapes him but he definitely rapes him because Nora’s predatory subtext is more obvious than a slap in the face? That didn’t need to happen either.

Andriel is a terrible ship, Nora you FRAUD AND HACK

So Andrew and Neil get together in the last book, because every series written by a straight woman needs a super unhealthy gay relationship for fangirls to call cute.

(This one is...weird because a lot of the fanbase are gay themselves, but I’ve heard there’s gay people who like the captive prince too so. i guess it just be like that sometimes.)

I don’t have time to comb through the entire book looking through problematic moments, and I wouldn’t want to. I’m just gonna grab a couple noteworthy scenes in what I hope will make an adequate outline of this fucked up relationship.

The Foxhole Court starts by setting up a running theme of Everyone Disrespecting Neil’s Boundaries All The Time with Wymack, Andrew, and Kevin coming to his high school and refusing to leave until he agrees to sign on with their Not Lacrosse team. His first meeting with Andrew is when Andrew hits him with a lacrosse racket to forcibly stop him from leaving the locker room, a pretty good encapsulation of the sort of person Andrew is. They spent the next three books allegedly falling in love.

Neil establishes boundaries. Andrew breaks them.

“I don’t need to be persuasive,” Andrew said, putting a hand to Neil’s chest as the elevator slowed to a stop. “You’ll just learn to do what I say.”

This is on page 33 of tfc, during their second meeting. Andrew establishes that he’s controlling and manipulative pretty damn early.

A list of other “romantic and iconic” Andriel moments include:

Andrew breaks into Neil’s room and goes through his belongings

Andrew drugs Neil and allows Nicky to assault him (after threatening to kill Nicky if he tried anything??) because he doesn’t trust him

Andrew uses threats of sharing personal information to force Neil to tell him secrets

Andrew is repeatedly physically violent (their first meeting, beating him up at Eden’s Twilight)

Andrew tells Neil’s secrets to the team psychiatrist, knowing full well it’s a betrayal of Neil’s trust

Andrew delights in Neil’s fear and goes out of his way for most of tfc to make him fear for his safety

Andrew didn’t look at Wymack. “Neil wants to come with me.” A day ago, those words might have been an order or a threat, but today Neil heard only truth. He’d chosen the Foxes. He’d chosen to trust Andrew, whatever that meant and whatever consequences it brought down the road. (tfc pg. 152)

After that quote the moments are harder to spot (read: I reread less of trk and none of tkm so I don’t have any bookmarks to turn to), but they are still there. The last moment there is from trk, so the abuse doesn’t stop, I’m just too exhausted to keep looking.

And let me be clear, that quote is barely consent. Andrew physically and psychologically abuses Neil into the position he’s in when he surrenders and sides with Andrew on page 152. This scene takes place right after Eden’s Twilight, and above all of what went down there, Neil has just been forced into telling Andrew more personal information than he’s ever told anyone. After a night of abuse he feels trapped, like resistance is futile, so he gives in. Saying he wants to be part of Andrew’s crew doesn’t count as consent when his hand is being forced.

Even though scenes towards the end of the series show Neil beginning to learn how to control Andrew and the two of them coming to stand on a more level ground, their relationship is one built on abuse and violence, and it’s important not to forget that. It’s unrealistic that Neil would come to trust Andrew, honestly. And having the abusive, more mature character give Neil his first ever relationship and teach him that he’s gay (or bi, or whatever he is) is not a good look. Especially when this book has everything else I’ve already mentioned. Especially when Nora is, once again, a grown ass straight woman.

Nicky And Andrew Are Two Terrible People Being Terrible To Each Other And Actually I Hate Both Of Them

So Nicky’s predatory and Andrew is violent and their relationship is as unhealthy as can get. Andrew’s relationships with Nicky and Aaron are both unhealthy, but Aaron’s much less so, so I’m just gonna get into Nicky today because I’ve been writing for almost 3 hours and I kinda wanna die right about now.

We’ve already established that I don’t like either of them. But let me be clear, it takes a lot for me to admit that Andrew “knives hidden up my sleeves” Minyard is right in any situation. And yet, in pretty much any situation where he threatens Nicky, it’s easy to see him as the good guy, at least up until a certain point.

Andrew is a bad person. He’s violent and manipulative and has no regard for people’s boundaries. Nicky is arguably worse, painting himself as the peacemaker while being horrifically predatory.

(A point on Nicky: Nora spends pretty much all of the first book showing Nicky as predatory, then abandons it entirely for the next two books, making it easy to forget the kind of person he is. Just because the predatory behavior stops doesn’t excuse it. Just because Nora thinks one lousy apology makes Nicky a good person suddenly, doesn’t mean it does.)

I’m gonna paste in a pretty massive chunk of text from the foxhole court, but I think it’s all important, so bear with me.

“Andrew is scary territorial of him. He punched me the first time I said I’d like to get Kevin too wasted to be straight.” Nicky pointed at his face, presumably where Andrew had decked him. “So yeah, I’m going to crush on safer targets until Andrew gets bored of him. That means you, since Matt’s taken and I don’t hate myself enough to try Seth. Congrats.” “Can you take the creepy down a level?” Aaron asked. “What?” Nicky asked. “He said he doesn’t swing, so obviously he needs a push.” ... “Nicky’s scheming to rape Neil,” Aaron said. “There are a couple flaws in his plan he needs to work out first, but he’ll get there sooner or later.” “You’re such an asshole,” Nicky said as he started for the door. “Wow, Nicky,” Andrew said. “You start early.” “Can you really blame me?” ... Andrew caught Nicky’s jersey in one hand and threw him hard up against the wall... “Hey Nicky,” Andrew said in stage-whisper German. “Don’t touch him, you understand?” “You know I’d never hurt him. If he says yes-” “I said no.” Jesus, you’re greedy,” Nicky said. “You already have Kevin, what does it-” He went silent, but it took Neil a moment to realize why. Andrew had a short knife pressed to Nicky’s jersey...Neil knew Andrew meant it. If Nicky so much as breathed wrong right now, Andrew would cut his lungs to ribbons, any and all consequences be damned.

So there’s a lot to unpack there. I loose Andrew at the point where he’s ready to murder, but though he’s extreme as fuck, it’s not like he’s unjustified. We learn later from his backstory why he’s so extreme in shutting down any behavior he sees predatory, and rightfully so. (Even though there’s still Eden’s Twilight soon after this... it’s Nora’s incompetent writing isn’t it.) Nicky is a creep. He’s an adult. He has a fiance. And he’s talking about how he’s going to coerce a teenager into having sex with him because he won’t tell him his sexuality.

He says he wouldn’t do anything without consent, but we know that’s not true. He’s just saying what Andrew wants to hear.

And as for Andrew, though his violence is excused by backstory and mental problems, it’s a big fucking deal. He nearly killed his cousin, who we know he feels at least some sort of fondness for, because it’s established at this point that the reason he’s so heavily medicated is for attacking men who threatened Nicky. Would he regret it later? It’s impossible to say. He killed Aaron’s mom and assumed Aaron would be grateful. He’s threatened or attacked pretty much every member of the Not Lacrosse team. And I honestly don’t know what Nora is trying to tell us about him. He gets tamer once he’s permanently off his medication, but he was violent before it. I suppose that’s because by then Neil has learned how to calm him down, but is that the message? Abuse a boy into hanging out with you and eventually he’ll be a boyfriend who knows how to deal with you?

Nicky is a predator and Andrew is a violent abuser and neither of them are the good guys and that’s the only conclusion I can possibly draw from the way they’re written.

Assorted noteworthy moments that didn’t fit into any larger part:

the part in trk where Nicky’s parents are homophobic and he tells them he loves his fiance and this is the moment that’s supposed to make us sympathize with him? “The sexual predator has homophobic Christian parents feel sad for him” nice try Nora but he’s not getting shit in the way of sympathy from me, your straight is showing

the part in tfc when Seth says the f-slur is bad because uh. Nora that’s not your word to say

bonus Nicky is predatory bit: Nicky waggled a hand at Aaron. “Quick, have we said anything totally incriminating these past few months?” “Aside from your endless inappropriate comments about what you’d like to do to [Neil], I don’t think so.” (tfc pg 239)

Kevin is also manipulative! I felt like covering it would be a bit of a rehash of Andrew and this was getting really long but he continually uses exy as leverage to get Neil to do things he feels will put him in danger the same way Andrew uses threats of sharing his secrets.

bonus bonus Nicky is predatory bit (I’m discovering more and more as I go): Nicky’s stare was appreciative when Neil returned, but for once he kept his mouth shut. (tfc pg 243) Is this supposed to be character growth? Being predatory without explicitly saying anything is barely better Nora!! (Side note, in this same scene Nicky does make a comment about Neil jacking off in the bathroom stall which? Seems kinda bad considering everything else with him?)

I didn’t touch on it very much because no one cares about it and it’s way harder to convince people poor writing about drug abuse is bad than poor writing about sexual assault is bad (even though it shouldn’t be, and i could have tried both but again. long post) but Nora’s attitude to drugs and alcohol is bad. Every character and their mom is addicted to something, with Kevin and Andrew being the most obvious touched on (also Seth but I don’t think anyone cares about him), and Nora’s attitude towards writing it is quite frankly disgusting. She’s offensively misinformed and it pisses me off to no end. But that’s a rant for another day.

Every sex scene between Neil and Andrew is gross. (I think there’s two of them from what I remember? At least two, maybe more.) I googled plenty and I couldn’t find Nora’s age anywhere, but I know for a fact that she’s an adult, and I also know the series took her 13 years to write, so I’m fairly sure she’s at least in her 30s.

I know I said I wasn’t gonna complain about bad writing but. It’s so bad y’all, and I honestly think it gets worse as the books go along. Every time Neil monologued it took a year off my life.

So yeah. There’s a lot that’s fucked up about the foxhole court. And the worst part of it is that it never gets better. Andrew makes marginal improvement, but Nicky never does. Nora writes shock value scenes until the series end (I didn’t write about the scene in tkm where Neil gets tortured because it’s the same shock value effect of the thanksgiving chapter in a different sort of way but it’s also bad). I am of the honest belief that this book is far too fucked up to salvage. This is my official tfc bad masterpost, because every time I criticize it someone wants to know more. But I’m also putting it in the fandom tags because it annoys me to no end that y’all support these books, and I’m hoping I can at least change someone’s mind.

#ok here it is #if you made it to the end holy fuck why would you do this to yourself #fun fact this is over 4000 words!!#im very angry and i have a lot to say ok #all for the game #the foxhole court #the raven king #the kings men #aftg #tfc #trk #tkm #ok. yeah. fandom tags. not 2 be all 'holier than thou' (i was part of the fandom once upon a blue moon) but yall need to hear this #this took me 3 hrs 45 min to write and proofread yall better appreciate it #my meta

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bookaholic1012 · 6 years ago

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The King’s Men Review

Synopsis: Neil Josten is out of time. He knew when he came to PSU he wouldn't survive the year, but with his death right around the corner he's got more reasons than ever to live. Befriending the Foxes was inadvisable. Kissing one is unthinkable. Neil should know better than to get involved with anyone this close to the end, but Andrew's never been the easiest person to walk away from. If they both say it doesn't mean anything, maybe Neil won't regret losing it, but the one person Neil can't lie to is himself. He's got promises to keep and a team to get to championships if he can just outrun Riko a little longer, but Riko's not the only monster in Neil's life. The truth might get them all killed—or be Neil's one shot at getting out of this alive.

Rating: 1.5/5 stars

Trigger Warning: Violence, torture (burning and cutting), mention of rape

MAJOR SPOILERS

I had a difficult time rating The King's Men, and I'm still not sure if I agree with 1.5 stars. I expected a lot and got nothing. Why was I surprised? I am going to list the things I did/did not like and explain them since that’s the only way I can think of to convey what I thought.

What I didn’t like:

The excessive detail/repetition

I’ve noticed this in all three books but never mentioned it. Nora Sakavic explains everything and repeats the same thing. I am neither interested nor am I in need of every single detail of Neil’s life. I don’t need to know how the court looks; I don’t need to know that the other orange/white Exy team wore a uniform with their colors inverse from the Foxes and how orange and white everything is. You do not need to repeat over and over how Neil is bad at socializing/being a friend because he is used to a life on the run and never had any. It gets tedious.

2. Neil and Andrew’s fast-paced overall relationship

It bothers me that it hasn’t even been a year since Andrew was raped and he is jerking if Neil. Honestly, their entire relationship I’m questioning. Andrew does not show emotion. But this whole ‘I hate you’ ‘omg you must love me’ thing is strange. Not a fan. To add, their relationship came out of nowhere. I mean, Andrew kisses Neil to stop his panic attack (really? You couldn’t have tried to calm him down?) and now they kiss whenever? Questionable.

3. This book should be titled, Neil and Andrew

Oh, my god, Neil and Andrew are a thing, I get it! Maybe it’s because Neil is very antisocial and is not that close with the Foxes, but did everyone fall off the face of the earth? There were interactions between Neil and the upperclassmen and Andrew’s group, but they either were brief, boring or not written out. My number one hope for this book was diving deeper into everyone’s past. I was hoping this would somehow happen, and it didn’t.

4. The absurd amount of time it took to heal

How was Neil able to get back to playing Exy so soon after being tortured? Does he have super-human healing powers?

5. Neil, you have become an annoying busybody (to put it politely)

Neil has indeed transformed into Kevin’s mini-me. It reached the point to where I just wanted someone else to narrate. And speaking of Kevin, stop pressuring him! Kevin is still traumatized by his time with the Ravens and being in the Moriyama's “care.” Quit telling him to get over it and move on! Also, practically forcing Kevin to tell Wymack he is his son just so the story about Neil’s real name and family wouldn’t gain as much coverage is incredibly selfish and messed up. Another time Neil was pushy was during the whole Aaron-Andrew relationship fixing ordeal. I did want the twins to reconcile as much as possible, but I think Neil overstepped his boundaries. He pushed them to go to a joint counseling session and used Katelyn to get to Aaron. The way Neil reacted to Aaron voicing his concern over his and Andrew’s relationship pissed me off. Neil, do you even know what it is that you have Andrew? Of course, he and Nicky are concerned!

6. Would the Foxes really win all (most?) of their games? Really?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Foxes have been doing better since Seth died because they work together more. But it feels unrealistic for the worst team in Class I Exy to beat the top 3 teams despite players like Kevin and Andrew. I think they won all their games, right? They should have lost at least one of their games.

7. Neil being saved

What happened to Neil was quite sickening. The burning of his cheeks and arms was horrible to read. Even though what Neil went through was awful, the way he was saved is too convenient. Uncle Stuart - who Neil has not seen in 8 years and was staying far away from - just happens to come with other people in his gang at the exact moment Neil was going to be killed. How did he know about the secret tunnel? Did Neil’s mom tell him about the layout of the home? This scene was unbelievable because of the miracles. Throughout the trilogy, many things that happened were ‘by some miracle’ or ‘luckily’ happened.

8. The epilogue

I was alarmed by the way the book ended. Riko is a monster (what Jean looked like when Riko was done with him left me feeling sick) and he is an unredeemable character but his death was so abrupt and left me uncomfortable.

9. Some things were left unresolved or just plain confusing

Did Aaron and Nicky ever find out what the deal was between Neil and Andrew? I don’t think it was ever said and that ticks me off. And apparently, Andrew isn’t a psychopath? But he just let everyone believe he was? I also don’t understand what his meds were for because I guess they weren’t antipsychotics. I was - and still am - confuse over the deal with that.

10. Andrew, what the hell??

Yes, Allison slapped Aaron and you promised to protect him. Yes, Matt punched Kevin or whatever. But that doesn’t give you an excuse to physically retaliate. What happened to Matt was fairly minor, thank goodness. But Andrew was choking Allison! And what he did to Katelyn in the library? It’s insane! Obviously, he went through unspeakable horrors, but that does not give him an excuse to harm Matt, Allison, and Katelyn!

I am going to stop listing off what I didn’t like because I could go on and on and on. There was so much!

What I liked:

The importance of consent was stressed a lot and I love that. Consent is a crucial part of any relationship.

Erik and Nicky!!!!!

When Matt’s dad offers to perform plastic surgery on Neil’s face and Matt says, “Dad, the fuck?”

The conversation between Roland and Andrew’s group when they found out he and Andrew slept together. Nicky and Aaron, I found funny.

When Nicky was arguing with Kevin about buying all the junk food at the airport

The two times Aaron walked away from Nicky, Kevin, Neil, and Andrew saying he didn’t know them

There really isn’t much I liked. Those 6 things are pretty much it and everything except the first are minor things. The only book I liked in this trilogy was The Foxhole Court, but now I’m doubting whether I actually liked it. I’ll eventually reread it and see if it is as good as I initially thought or if I actually don’t like it.

My next review will be on: History is All You Left Me by Adam Silvera

#the king's men #Nora sakavic #all for the game #Layla reviews

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transgenderboobs · 7 years ago

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renison post-psu+wedding headcanons because i’m a Big Lesbian (and so is renee)

so they graduate and allison goes up to new york to start her crazy high powered career as a pro exy player/sports wear fashion designer

(i kno nora says she doesn’t go pro but i will take pro allison to my grave)

so renee moves with her, and they stay up there together for a while, but renee’s been planning on joining the peace corps for a couple years now, so after a while, when she’s sure she and allison are on steady ground with their relationship, she gets ready to leave

she’s a lil afraid of what long distance will be like, but she and allison spent so long getting to each other they’re not about to let a few miles get between

(n like allison still has an asston of money so if she really starts to miss renee she can just hop on a plane n go see her !)

so renee leaves for a couple years, and allison pours all her free time into her career and builds her own sort of empire

her and renee talk on the phone every week, and renee sends letters, and allison sends (too many, according to renee) care packages

but distance Really does make the heart grow fonder, so even tho renee is out of the country for two years she and allison r still going strong

and whenever they get to see each other it’s like they haven’t even been apart and they just fall right back into their normal routine, with some extra making out to hold them over until they get to see each other again

renee comes back home a couple years later. idk how many?? how does the peace corps work ?? just. a couple.

she pretty much immediately moves in with allison, and they rent a pretty big apartment in manhatten because of proximity to allison’s job(s)

that being said, allison makes fucken Bank but because of prolonged exposure to renee she gives away like. more than half her income, n starts about a million charities and leaves 500% tips and pays off everyone’s kickstarters

neil once jokingly asked if she had her own secret deal with mobsters bc she gives away so much but Nope. she just has a charitable gf

all that being said, and even with all the money she Still has after all of that (lbr she’s Allison she’s still. Loaded af) when she proposes to renee she buys a very modest ring, b/c she Knows renee and that’s what she would like

allison proposes. barely a month after renee gets home. they wasted too much time in the beginning Not being together so now allison wants to stay with her Forever

when she goes to propose, she pulls out the ring, and renee just starts laughing. allison’s like ?????? for a Hot Second, until renee pulls her own ring out of her pocket, explaining the she was gonna propose

they laugh and kiss and laugh some more and have a really great night, renee wearing allison’s ring and allison wearing renee’s

they spend abt a year planning the wedding, b/c this is /allison’s/ wedding and it’s gonna be the goddamn party of the century

they have a denominational ceremony in renee’s church two weeks into may, on the anniversary of the First day renee and allison met at the foxhole court b/c allison goes All Out in all aspects

the ceremony is very simple, just family, only about ~20 people, and it’s so beautiful dan cries. even wymack looks a little misty, especially when they say their vows, which they wrote themselves

the colors are pink and orange, but not bright and garish, more muted and soft, so it looks like renee and allison are being married in the middle of a sunset

the reception, tho, is extravagant and lavish and just all in all a really wonderful party. it’s an outdoor reception, with soft dusty-pink roses and sunset-orange calla lilies and fairy lights and it genuinely looks like a dream

also andrew definitely eats like. an entire tier of the wedding cake himself. theyre ok w that tho

renee, angel that she is, doesn’t stop smiling all night. not her calm, serene smile, but a huge, goofy, crooked grin that crinkles her eyes and scrunches up her nose and only intensifies whenever she looks at allison

it’s not like allison’s any better; she’s smiling just as much.

it feels like a dream, renee still feels like she needs to atone for her past, but she looks at allison and thinks she must’ve done something right if she gets to have this woman in her life, for the rest of her life

allison can’t believe that renee, this miracle of a woman, actually looked at allison and saw something worth holding onto, instead of just the “catty bitch” that the rest of the world reduces her to

anyway they are blissfully happy in beautiful gay love for the rest of their life the end

#renison #renee walker #allison reynolds #aftg #loverboy posts

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i-did · 4 years ago

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Thank you for the reply to my ask!! It was especially interesting because u have hcs that are one-of-a-kind to find in this fandom. The pup play for Andrew took me by suprise at first but now that I think about it does seem to fit him lol, how do you think he would engage with it? Like, for example: I think the collar thing is cool, but further on from that, I can't rlly decide whether I think Andrew would be okay with Neil like pulling on the collar or if that's too aggressive, or other things that pup play can involve, etc. Again, ur thoughts?

Yeah of course, I feel like 90% of my anons are saying something like ‘this is a stupid question’ or ‘sorry for wasting your time’ or something like that, but you guys ask really cool questions and I love answering them. Sometimes it takes me a while to respond, so thank you for your patience when I do.

Yeah, I feel this fandom is actually pretty ‘straight forward’ with most of the NSFW headcanons. I don’t want to be rude, but most of them seem very generic or cookie cutter. I've seen a lot of really sweet headcanons out there, but not a lot of exploration. Idk maybe it's because I'm one of the few mlm, but my NSFW HC definitely stray from what I've seen. Characters tend to fit into the typical ‘top/dom and bottom/sub’ roles a lot, and I haven’t seen a lot of other stuff out there. I also think overall in society there is a huge emphasis on penetrative sex being the ‘final’ step to sex, and is ‘the real deal,’ which I don’t think fits Andrew and Neil’s relationship. Will they do it sometimes? Yeah, sure, and I agree with Nora that when Andrew’s ready they switch basically 50/50, but overall they do lots of other things and get just as much, if not more pleasure out of it.

pup play HC below the cut:

Okay, onto the pup-play. Pup play is actually very huge in the gay community. While I personally HC Neil and Andrew don’t have a lot of cultural connection to the community, I also think when they start to explore this and learn more they end up looking into websites and servers which are centered around mlm pup-players. I don’t think they look much into it outside discovering it is a ‘thing’ however.

Andrew won't ever think to himself ‘Neil is my handler’ and I don’t know if I see him wearing the hood, which is the mask that they wear. I could see Andrew in the muzzle that's similar to the one Brad Pit wears in the 1999 Rolling Stones photoshoot–and I actually have a WIP drawing of Andrew in one inspired by said photoshoot. I think Andrew being told by Neil that he has to try to get Neil off with the muzzle still on is a challenge they might do. Andrew is very confident in his oral sex skills, and shows very little gag reflex, so they could get to the point of Neil touching said muzzle and sticking his dick between the bars for Andrew to kiss and lick. The muzzle in the photoshoot actually allows for Brad Pit to fully open his mouth into a smiling yell, so a similar one would allow Andrew to suck Neil off while still wearing it.

I do think he would have a collar with a ring on it, and Neil might tug Andrew to his knees or pull him closer when they get there. I don’t think this would happen fast of course, but I think Neil being in control while Andrew learns to let himself get off in front of him it could provide to be helpful. It would likely start with Neil’s hands and mouth kissing and touching around the collar as Andrew just gets used to it and comfortable. Andrew’s neck is very sensitive, and I think the collar could play into that canon fact. I think later on Neil gently tugs it, and eventually will use it almost to guide Andrew into a position, but they're never going to be rough with it. There's nothing wrong with consensual rough play like that, I personally just don’t see either one liking it.

I can imagine Neil sitting and having Andrew get himself off only by humping his leg, which is both a position where Neil can’t see Andrew’s dick but still his face and Andrew is still in physical control of all the sexual contact. It’s also a common thing for handlers to make their pups do in order to get off. This to me is a good one for them, it’s not very intense and if Andrew gets overwhelmed the contact is still minimal and on a non-sexual organ–his dick on Neil’s leg. Andrew would also be either sitting on Neil’s lap or on the floor near Neil’s leg, and would avoid feeling trapped. Andrew also gets to set the pace, and honestly Neil would be likely staring into Andrew’s eyes over anything, or depending on the position, kissing Andrew.

I feel like Neil likes giving Andrew praise and while Andrew would never ask for it or admit it, he enjoys receiving it. To him it's an assurance that he is doing something okay and what is happening is a good thing, and Neil… just needs to tell Andrew how good of a job he’s doing. And praise is a pretty common thing to give your pup.

I also think Andrew could find comfort in the ‘animalistic’ aspect of sex. Sex as a primal thing can make a lot of people feel less anxious and overthink it less. While not for everyone, sex is an inherent thing to many, and letting it exist as an instinct can be freeing and get rid of shame about urges. Andrew being a pup and Neil as a handler could relieve some of those feelings from Andrew of him afraid of being both out of control but also too controlling. If sex is both something he can’t help but the ‘leash’ is in his sexual partners hand, I feel he could feel a lot more at ease and avoid feelings of guilt.

A quick list of things I don't think Andrew and Neil would do while engaging in pup play:

I don't see Andrew going on walks, moshing, or romping, or ever actively ‘playing out’ being a dog. I don't see him barking, or having chew toys, and I don’t see them going to events. I don’t think Andrew would ever ‘ask to be pet,’ while they pup play, but I do see him silently putting Neil’s hands on his head, or leaning his head towards Neil silently and Neil scratching and petting his hair and running his fingers though it, which Andrew loves.

I could see Neil ‘giving Andrew treats,’ but mostly as Neil feeding Andrew Reece’s Pieces and Andrew sucks on Neil’s fingers type of deal, rather than in a pup play treats sense.

I don’t think Neil would call him ‘pup’ or any of the other common titles, and Andrew wouldn’t call Neil ‘sir’. I feel they stick with names and never dive deep into that aspect of pup play.

I don’t see Andrew ever fully going into headspace since I think he wouldn’t engage with a lot of the pup-play kink aspects where he actively acts out the role of a pup. Andrew does need aftercare after sex, but he almost needs it after any kind of sex where he gets off, especially in the beginning. Unlike most aftercare however, Andrew mostly will choose if he wants Neil to be around or not, and sometimes he chooses to deal with however he feels alone. Neil won’t ever push and force Andrew to stay, because Neil puts a lot of weight into Andrew’s word for what he asked for.

Also, a major misunderstanding of pup play is that it’s a humiliation kink, this isn't true. I don’t think Andrew and Neil would ever be into intense humiliation or degradation, in a similar way that I don’t see either one into anything too rough or heavy power play.

Anyways– here is a link someone who plays as a pup sent to me to educate me on it:

This response mostly centered around Andrew's feelings and likes over Neil's, especially since I see it as more Andrew's kink that Neil enjoys with him. I'm surprised no one asked me about Neil's armpit and sweat kink tbh.

https://www.pupplay.info/basics/pup-play-101/

It’s a good resource and if you wanna learn more you should check it out.

#aftg #nsft #osha violation #aftg headcanon #andreil #ask #mailob

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ijustwanttoreblogthings · 7 years ago

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Since I’m still having emotions about twins, let us explore the mysterious and wonderful Older Twin Phenomenon. (I’m pretty sure Nora said recently that Andrew is older, and I’m running with that bc YEAH HE IS.)

-Now, it’s a total stereotype that older twins are more, like, ‘dominant’, except it’s also completely and utterly legit (for identical twins anyway, who knows what fraternal twins are up to). But ‘dominant’ is the wrong word bc older twins are actually kinda whipped.

The thing about twins is that what you see is about 35% of what’s going on beneath the surface. If you only hear one twin talking, you might assume that the other twin has nothing to say. But that’s because you’re not tuned into the Twin Radio. Younger twin thinks, older twin speaks.

So we have Andrew, the Elder. He tends to talk for both of them (at least when he was on meds), makes the decisions, probably stands slightly forward to emphasise his Superior Ranking or whatever. And then you have Aaron, the littlun, who tends to follow Andrew’s lead. (But as we all know, that’s not really how their relationship works. Aaron only really goes along with Andrew’s schemes when it suits him.)

-It’s pretty cute bc they don’t act like teenage/young adult twins. Their dynamic, especially with their Deals and Promises, actually feels more like a duo aged 4-10. But they were separated at birth, give them a break! They haven’t worked out a proper balance yet. (And also they have a lot of other shit to work through...)

-Andrew is such an older twin, mostly because of how protective he is. Of course he extends that to all of his ‘family’, but his over-protective/slightly possessive schtick regarding Aaron is, again, very reminiscent of an Older Twin In Training. I feel like older twins come out of the uterus first, get a lay of the land and are like: YIKES. better look out for my twin in this cruel new world. they haven’t Seen the things that I Have Seen.

-So how does Andrew know that he is older, even though he doesn’t consciously know? He probably looked at this weird mirror version of himself and was like “what is this? it looks like me, but i...don’t hate it??? i must protect it.”

-Older Twin Knows Best And Even If They Don’t They Will Pretend They Do Please Lord Give The Younger Twin Strength.

(Andrew means well lmao.)

P.S.- let’s take a moment to appreciate the most Twin Dialogue to ever Twin:

"I don't like that word," Andrew said. "Don't use it." "I would say 'fuck you, freak', but then you wouldn't know which one of you I was talking to." "Don't talk to us at all," Aaron said. "You never have anything useful to say."

squad goals

#twinyards #mine #Andrew Minyard #Aaron Minyard #the foxhole court #tfc #all for the game #aftg #eventually i will stop thinking about them being twins but that day is not today

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victor-v · 5 years ago

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so yesterday i finished all for the game for the second time in my life (weird thing i've never read a book or series twice) and it wrecked me for the second time. it was unexpectedly nice that i actually understood everything with so much clarity, but that makes sense i've got lot of practice in reading english since then. also, i wrote my thoughts on the book this time.

i can't understand how a book can have such an impact on me, i hate that and i love it, everything else that crossed my mind is under the cut

★huh andrew really bullied aaron into dressing identical to mess up with neil

★"i don't swing either way" is the phrase that made me feel more valid that the whole queer community ever

★neil is pure nihilism

★how can i EVER forget neil wore a tight long sleeved TORN tshirt that andrew bought this is way too much

★seth is dead and all kevin can think about is the line up tbh i do that often

★they are making a scandal about how they sit

★kevin telling neil "destroy him" filled me with power

★the most unreal part is neil ALWAYS keeping his roots another colour the guy must dye his hair every fucking week

★how did neil buy andrew's promise to protect him from the japanese mafia's professional murderers when the only people he physically bullies is an obsessive young adult with anxiety, a princess in high heels and his sunshine sister in law

★wait a fucking minute andrew saw neil filled with terror while holding the phone and immediately gave him the car keys so he could be alone fuck

★nicky fucking hemmick attended to improv class

★ according to dan few athletes were crude enough to start trouble at an ERC event, you mean as crude as neil?

★how to take care of your teammate while he's in a crisis according to: andrew→show concern and reassure him. wymack→10 seconds of vodka

★"hey, jean. jean valjean" is peak comedy

★the ravens walking in v formation is genuinely the most cringy thing you can think of

★neil first finds out the only possible person to date him is andrew because he was jealous of renee are you kidding me

★andrew only missed 13 from 150 shots on goal for fucking real what a Man

★renee is an angel, she's specifically andrew's angel

★neil truly is a watcher

★bee wearing a bee costume is the only good thing on this world

★dan and matt dressed like greek gods!!!!! they can adopt me already

★can you believe nicky is the one who got into neil's brain and planted the idea of realying on someone, and since then neil actively pursues an investigation on andrew's relationship status how on god's name i missed that HOW he's not even subtle about it damn

★he first worries about renee now about kevin goddamn it josten how can't you se how much you care about him

★it's funny how sexuality is such a heavy topic between them when they sure as fuck have some pretty huge stuff going on you know like dying in the hands of the mafia or being tortured

★i imagine andrew running to renee all bonkers like "listen if the cute guy asks, for fucks sake tell him i'm gay but make it ~casual~ maybe this way he'll get it"

★the sole mention of thanksgiving dinner makes me want to die

★kevin is checking the scores in a newspaper I forget this book is so 00's

★they should have spent the day eating turkey and frozen pie at abby's fuckkkkkkkk

★are you kidding me they are in the middle of a conversation and andrew casually chokes neil a little but it's ok they carry on wtf

★"we are all going to regret this" is the fucking worse piece of foreshadowing in this book

★neil interrogating andrew the same night he was raped what kind of fucking piece of shit does that

★i can't fucking believe neil went ahead and shoved andrew's hand under his tshirt in front of kevin, wymack, betsy and two fucking lawyers are you kidding me

★neil asking "are we? friends?" to nicky is so relatable because i also would have an aneurysm if someone told me i am their friend

★someone else tries to flirt with him and he immediately considers andrew how i was too ace to see it the first time i read

★jesus fucking christ riko is one truly fucked up sociopath and neil is the bravest motherfucker on the land

★how can he face riko like that in the nest and be extremely pure in other occasion

★"are we watching the ball drop? i want to make a wish" he wants to make a wish and i want to die thanks

★i can't believe the whole if it means losing you then no and side effect of the drugs shit it's unreal fucking unreal how oblivious neil is too ace to realize anything SOMEONE JUST CALLED YOU "DREAM" THE LEVEL OF ROMANTICISM

★the amount of heavy staring in this trilogy is ridiculous and all i can think about is twilight

★these books made me see how far from the 00s we are, for many reasons, but mostly for some jokes that can't let slide; like calling neil a battered wife, domestic misogynistic violence is not a joke

★i can't believe from all people, wymack was the first one to get andrew was into neil

★"that doesn't mean I wouldn't blow you" is such a funny phrase to be said casually why is it

★"you are a racoon, not a fox" oh andrew

★it only took andrew admitting he had a crush for neil to be all sentimental and shit, and that disarmed andrew too

★they are like some kind of animal that while you think they are fighting, they are actually mating, that's exactly what nora meant with feral

★half of last book is neil mooning over andrew jfc

★nicky made neil smile while distracting him from riko im gonna throw myself off a cliff

★i can't quite believe neil goes through a detailed monologue about andrews memory the man is impressed and borderline turned on about every talent on his crushe's shelf

★i literally can't follow and will never understand the quarrel/promise/agreement between aaron and andrew what a bunch of pretentious idiots

★every time neil's phone buzzes all i fear is the fucking countdown

★i thought "i want to see you lose control" was a collective fever dream i can't believe it's written on the books

★if i was nicky i already have told andrew to stop his freaky pretentious shit towards me

★neil to the upperclassman: ha ha fellas is it gay to unthinkingly call andrew in the middle of a anxiety breakdown

★"you gave me a key and called it home" is as soft as heartbreaking i want to jump off a cliff

★"i won't be like them, i wont let you let me be" is actually pushing me off that cliff andrews feelings are a fucking storm

★neil was kidnapped and tortured the day of my bday and that's not a coincidence

★neil's talent to twist the truth in order to convince andrew of anything is outstanding

★excuse me they have no right to be this soft i hate them

★they miss so many opportunities to be funny about the whole "protection" thing

★did he really had a mental breakdown over where to fucking sit on the bus lmao

★"don't come crying to me when someone breaks your face" is the second most awful piece of foreshadowing

★lets be honest for a second andrew should be a fucking writer because all those things he says? edgy myspace pretentious poetry

★im sorry but i don't care about literally anything except neil smiling onto andrew's neck bye

★andrew ghosted a kiss across neil's hip im dead for real

★abby kissed neil's forehead farewell after cleaning all his injuries i have no words he's recieving all the affection he deserves

★cant believe you don't see aaron is fucking worried neil is taking advantage of andrew

★i mean yeah ok don't talk love but neil is sad that nicky thinks it was only hate sex, and he immediately acknowledged it meant more than that to him bc his demi btw wtf does hate sex mean i can't believe you hate someone so much you wanna suck his dick

★they all went horseback riding when will i have a group of friends like that

★"who's humanising who in that relationship" i know right nicky

★kevin locking himself to have a panic attack is the most relatable thing

★the car encounter with ichirou holds the same tension as a mr robot scene

★the proposal of playing olympics and being unstoppable feels like marriage or smth

★neil is literally having his hot girl summer

★i adore neil's overflow of emotions after swallowing everything for so many years. represented, thanks.

★andrew terrorising katelyn who the fuck does he think he is what an annoying asshole

★"did you know i've never been skiing" is the most epic line

★i cheer to the sole mention of laila

★alvares can deck me right now and i would say thank you

★"war is profitable" aaron knows what's up

★sometimes i want to slap them is2g

★that scene at eden's where they are all discussing how roland found out and aaron ends up being the only straight one lmao boy it's your punishment for being so homophobic

★the whole "deadliest piece on the board" spech is 100 times better when you consider kevin was wasted and overly exaggerating every word and gesture

★can you imagine those few fans supporting kevin's new tattoo screaming YAAAAASSSSS QUEEEEEEEEEN while snapping fingers i'm cackling

★matt in court body slamming into anyone that's been a problem to the foxes: VIBE CHECK MOTHERFUCKER

★neil kissed andrew in castle fucking evermore the audacity i adore him

#the foxhole court #the raven king #the kings men #all for the game #tfc #it really fucking wrecked me #how can a fucking book do this to me #my thoughts

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