#I think they are all very queer I do think so

[torglives]

to say my piece: firstly, fuck iskall.

secondly, its very easy to tell by the outpouring of hate comments on many of the hermits' recent videos (after his response) that he reached a target of young, impressionable fans. not only that, but also a darker side of the hermitcraft fandom that i like to ignore.

as much as i love hermitcraft, its "golden" status that its gotten from remaining "unpolitical" and "drama-free" has perpetuated a very ugly-hearted group of fans who cant find solace in the more openly left-wing smp communities. so they turn to hermitcraft, where they can hide a little more easily. and this has been a group of people slowly cultivating numbers for years now, and there's enough of them that docm77's gay beacon, or the number of pride mcc participants (and queer hermits) can't ward off.

these people have always been the ones brushing concerns in the community under the rug, the "this isn't the place for politics," and "i watch hermitcraft to get AWAY from that stuff." types. they are never going to believe the women that were harassed over the male creator they've latched onto as someone who's "for them" and "un-cancelable." these people have been waiting for this opportunity. and you'll see them say "hermitcraft is over," and "they can't come back from this," but none of that is true. they're the only ones who believe that.

and as awful as all of this is, the hate and the VERY thinly veiled misogyny-- there is a bright-side in weeding those people out. "i don't think i'll be able to watch hermitcraft after this" good fucking riddance.

iskall knew what he was doing by bringing his shit response video to his youtube audience. instead of the reddit, instead of twitter, but to a space that HE moderates. the space with the highest concentration of people who he know will defend him.

my only hope is that the hermits double down on this, and that they have the backbone to make it clear that these people are not welcome in the community. and neither is iskall. and that the larger chunk of us continue to support the victims, and uplift what they have to say. i can't imagine how this must feel for them.

[somerandompun]

I was going to put this in the tags but realized I have a lot to say on this.

Anywho, to begin, I am a modern-day Homestuck fan and My Little Pony FIM fan (yes, yes, I hear you, to be cringe is to be free or whatever) but my heaviest special interests rn are Bottoms, Ginger Snaps, and Wednesday, all of which either barely have fandoms due to low popularity at release (Ginger Snaps) or due to the fandom dying off (Wednesday, Bottoms).

I fuel my own fandom, essentially, writing pages upon pages of self-serving fanfic, making headcanons, etc, but I miss the type of fandoms I used to be in. Carmilla was popular when I was in middle school (lol, I'm 22 shush), and that was an insane time to be in that fandom space as it was so new, so full of life. There are still people who write for Carmilla today, though the fandom was never really "at large" due to the fact Carmilla was not very mainstream (YouTube series L).

Similarly, I do not see much of the Orphan Black or Orange Is the New Black fandoms today, both of which I also was a part of during their primes. Sure, people still write for them, but they similarly lack people who held on.

And then there's Bottoms and Wednesday, two fandoms I thought would hold on for a loooooong time given the content and all (everyone's fav nihilist and lesbian fight club), but they didn't. I still regularly read fics from both fandoms, make moodboards, the likes, but it feels hollow, no new content being generated like it used to.

I have a theory about this, mostly that most people stopped sustaining fandoms with the rise in disdain for fans in 2020, especially those viewed as "cringe," think about all the "cringe" tiktok compilations on YouTube, mostly involving kids just cosplaying as their favs. This rise in online bullying to in-person bullying sorta ostracized anyone who liked something "too much." To be quite honest, I was one of those kids in middle school, odd, strange, and "too much," and, at times, I feel like I cannot discuss my interests or share them due to feeling like I will be shoved aside and ostracized yet again.

Similarly, I think we lack heavy fandom spaces simply because people do not wish to or cannot focus that much energy on media anymore. For fucks sake, Yellow Jackets should be much more popular than it is, much like how OITNB was. Bottoms should have been a phenomenon. We MOST LITERALLY used to pray for days like these, days where shows and movies consisted of so much queer content, esp queer women! Do y'all remember how bad it was for a while? What, we had trauma porn show where everyone gets shit on or dies all the time (OITNB), lesbian killer shows (The 100), shows with toxic lesbian situationships/relationships (OB), web series (Carmilla), and fucking kid's shows (Steven Universe). Now, that's not saying those shows are bad (except for the 100, which I have a grudge against bc my Anya, MY SHAYLLAAAA), but God, I would've killed to have Bottoms or Wednesday around when I was still in school.

Anywho, all of this is just a long-winded way to say: please create content, be the change you wanna see in fandom spaces. Make that Pinterest board, be a fandom blog, post shitty fanfic, argue in the tags, make headcanons, watch and rewatch more things you enjoy, engage with things even if they feel cringy, please, fandom space depends on all of us and our passions! Do not bow to people who view creation and passion as cringe!

TO BE CRINGE IS TO BE FREE

personally I think it’s a shame how fandoms “died” too soon these days. I’m not talking in literal sense and I know there are people who stay passionate about their fandoms long after the hype is gone. I’m talking about the “popularity” and how people in general engage with a piece of media they like and how fast they let the hype die down? I don’t know if I’m making any sense, but what I’m trying to say is a fanfic or a fan art of a show that is recently released will get tons of likes, comments, reblogs which is great. but the engagement for fan made content about that same show usually drops drastically — and I mean drastically — once the show is no longer “recent”. and I’m not even talking about when the show is several years old. because you can see the significant drop of engagement a fanfic or fan art about that show receives once the show is like a month old or two. it’s discouraging how most people tend to lose interest and stop engaging with fanfic / fan art once its source material is no longer “new and shiny”.

especially when writing fanfics and creating fan art take time. writers and artists often receive less engagement / appreciation for their works if they take “too long” to create and the source material is no longer “new and shiny” and so people move on to something else that’s new and shiny. it’s heartbreaking to see.

obviously this is in no way to manipulate or guilt trip people into engaging with anything. because yeah you can do whatever you want. this isn’t to force, manipulate or guilt trip anyone into liking or reblogging a fan work or anything. this is just me hoping people will one day take things slower and enjoy things they’re passionate about longer like how we used to in the past.

[ahappydnp]

so sorry but ive seen two different things about this now and im very lost, why did people think they were breaking up/broke up in 2012??? pls help me understand, wise keeper of the lore. thank u so much

response under the cut for general 2012 discussion/too long

basically 2012/2013 used to get (and sometimes still is) generalized as this dark and awful time period where dnp "hated" each other and us, when in actuality it was two very young very scared closeted queer people who were in the process of several major life changes at once while also dealing with a new exploding fan base

there's a few big things from that "era" that people talk about:

deleting old posts- around this era dnp deleted a ton of old tweets/formsprings/dailybooths that could read as them being in a relationship. they were blowing up online and had more eyes on them than ever before, not to mention had just starting working with the BBC (where being queer would have greatly affected their careers). also keep in mind dan was still in the closet to EVERYONE, and now he's got tons of fans going through his accounts and sending shit to HIS LITTLE BROTHER on tumblr asking if dan's gay. anyway people decided them deleting early tweets meant they had broken up

dan's customerservice tumblr blog- in the middle of them blowing up and people finding all these old posts, dan in an effort to control the narrative, makes a new blog for people to anonymously ask him questions (: which went about as well as you can imagine for an extremely defensive closeted 20 year old with undiagnosed depression. basically he said some unfortunately things out of fear

the video leaked again- won't get too much into that because of the subject matter, but the yeah the video leaked for the second time except this time way more people saw it/shared it and dnp actually had to respond to it this time. which is. just fucking awful and heartbreaking all around.

phil persona- basically this was the birth of the amazingphil persona that'd follow phil to the quiff era. he became more sanitized and less personable than original phil fans were used to (which got romanticized into uwu he's sad because he and dan broke up and now he's shutting down)

"no homo"- pretty self explanatory...people asked if they were gay (every single day constantly on every platform) and they would say no because what else are they going to say. this one particular vyou where dan's actually trying to make people think kills me (x) god he was so young. but they'd also started doing the "omg i don't want to see you naked/ew people want us to kiss" and the infamous "you need a girlfriend" "my future wife" etc etc.

the breakup rumors mostly stemmed from and became popular/ treated as fact by younger fans who kind of saw them as these fictionalized characters (which i mean not to blame them because they were literal children and youtubers were still so new that people did treat them like tv show characters you could be friends with). it also got turned into more sinister theories like the "dan is abusing phil" ones and "phil is actually gay but dan isn't and just used phil for attention and fame in 2009"

there was also factors like them moving to london in 2012 (and people were CONVINCED they'd stop being friends in london??), people thinking them getting popular would mean they'd get girlfriends like other popular youtubers (shoutout danrific shippers), and most importantly just them sharing less about their personal lives with their audience. like of course they're not going to live tweet their day/location anymore when people are showing up at their house and trying to find their families.

basically, dnp were putting boundaries between themselves and their fans, but the fans interpreted it as putting distance between each other. in actuality the 2012/2013 era was full of some really amazing memories and content and things people loved (literally the photobooth challenge is from 2013!! sleeping phil saying i hate you is from 2012!!!)

in conclusion, imagine building a forever home with your ex lmao

[so-i-did-this-thing]

been thinking of investing in a bass pro shop hat to simultaneously get gendered correctly and avoid being clocked as trans... I live in a pretty conservative rural area so I figure if I dress like the local cis guys they'll think I'm one of them and act accordingly.

The only issue is I'm pre everything so my voice sounds like shit. If I talk they'll either clock me or assume I'm a kid but I can just not talk unless needed, right?

Do you think this is a good idea?

In this moment in history, we need a mix of visible and invisible trans people. There are many different roles to play when fighting fascism and not all are on the front lines.

I am in a support role right now, so am pretty stealth currently. And maybe that's what you need to ask yourself -- is anyone directly depending on you and how does that influence your plans?

It's also hard to answer your question because I don't know your experiences trying to pass in public, and if your current presentation to an outsider reads as "cis female" or "some kind of queer".

With all the kindness in my heart -- don't confuse gender euphoria with the ability to pass. Get some second opinions on your cishet cosplay. Take photos at unflattering angles, from the back and sides. I'm still unsettled at how my silhouette at certain angles clocks me.

You also need to decide if there is a point where you're safer off presenting as female. What you would do if you ever reach that point and what the consequences would be.

If this will be your first time presenting as male in public, you might want to wait a bit while the current chaos of the new admin settles. Things are highly unpredictable right now.

If you do attempt to pass like this, stay out of bathrooms and try to go out only during the day, ideally with cis friends. Drive safely. Avoid doing things that require showing your ID. You want to be invisible and be mistaken for a teenager.

If you get clocked, it's very likely you'll be taken for a lesbian, as so many transphobes still forget trans men exist. Which still may not lend you much safety if they're homophobic. Rehearse how you would respond in a confrontation.

It's always a risk, trying to pass in hostile areas. Because the retribution could be even worse once transphobes learn they have been "deceived".

It has to be your call. But put a lot of thought into it and practice where it's safest.

Good luck and take care.

[gatheringbones]

You seem like the kind of person to be delightfully honest about my problem, and the fact that you are already in a successful relationship encourages me; as long as i can remember, i have been trying to make friends and connections but i always fail. If i may refrence a half remembered quote from a book i think you posted, i think it's like they can smell the desperation off me, and the fact that a "normal" "well adjusted" person wouldn't go to bat for them that quickly, like they can see the abandoned autistic kid crawling out my skin. One would think that once i found queer people the problem would be solved, but even then they were the 'cool' party kids having exciting autonomous adventures, so my inability to do so struck even nore of a loser nerve, i think. I thought that this last semester i finally found the person that was as interested in the relationship as me (constant, daily conversations for *months*), but they unexpectedly blocked me and vagued about how I was annoying and that they just used my passion for certain things to start drama. Plus, they had other, year long friends so i shouldn't have expected differently... How can I get over being ignored even by other "freaks", even if we're supposed to stick together or something?

that dream of the discerning/accepting/loving family of lovers and dreamers is a double edged sword. it has existed before, it will exist again, it exists even now— but like all deep trickster magic it’s elusive and multidimensional and not encountering it when you expect and long for it hurts very badly, as you’ve experienced.

you’re in the period of bashing against the jagged rocks while you realize that there isn’t actually a sacred pact based on mutual self interest and adoration between all mad queer persons. that’s part of the magic and it’s one of the only ways you gain access to the higher and deeper spells. your shame and heartbreak and disappointment are context for what comes next.

only truly loving and brave and rare human beings will regard and handle you in the manner you wish to be handled and regarded. being that loving and brave in a world like this crushes and rends and tears a person; they accrue so much damage just for behaving decently and maintaining hold of their compassion and discernment in a world that wants nothing more than to cauterize it out of them, just as it wishes to cauterize the dream of true love and solidarity out of you.

If you study everything you can get your hands on about love and respect and how to care for and nurture other people, you’ll hone some of the skills you will need to recognize these very rare persons in the wild. If you are unbelievably lucky, you may be able to comport yourself in such a way that you earn their regard and trust. More dashing against the jagged rocks will ensue. It will hurt worse than anything you can imagine. You will be reliant on miracles and the whims of a capricious universe.

Have fun, be brave! The way out is deeper into the horror story.

[bemusedlybespectacled]

I do want to be clear that this is not “the CIA.” The CIA did not exist when this manual was written. Don’t give them credit they don’t deserve.

I will also point out that a lot of these suggestions are things done by people today that work very effectively. For example:

Report imaginary spies or danger to the Gestapo or police.

We do this all the time when there are tip lines for abortion seekers or undocumented immigrants or nefarious queer people. Note that simply spamming them with nonsense is not suggested: the point is to waste people’s time investigating false claims that appear plausible.

(g) In public treat axis nationals or quislings coldly.

(h) Stop all conversation when axis nationals or quislings enter a cafe.

(j) Boycott all movies, entertainments, concerts, newspapers which are in any way connected with the quisling authorities.

In other words, don’t act friendly with Nazis, don’t support Nazis, and don’t let them know your plans.

And I think this bit is quite applicable to our times, in a roundabout way:

The ordinary citizen very probably has no immediate personal motive for committing simple sabotage. Instead, he must be made to anticipate indirect personal gain, such as might come with enemy evacuation or destruction of the ruling government group. Gains should be stated as specifically as possible for the area addressed: simple sabotage will hasten the day when Commissioner X and his deputies Y and Z will be thrown out, when particularly obnoxious decrees and restrictions will be abolished, when food will arrive, and so on. Abstract verbalizations about personal liberty, freedom of the press, and so on, will not be convincing in most parts of the world. In many areas they will not even be comprehensible.

I’d argue that while Americans (and those in other proto-fascist regimes) do claim to understand things like personal liberty, 1) it's more effective to say how something will tangibly impact a person (tHe pRiCe oF eGgS) instead of something more abstract, and 2) a lot of those sorts of abstract concepts have been co-opted by the right itself and twisted to serve their own ends (ex: it's "freedom of speech" to spread Nazi rhetoric but suppress antiracism efforts).

Funny about that...

[utilitycaster]

#critical role#yea#and tbh? these are mostly western white queers#not esxclusively because we def have this type of people here in eastern europe as well. but the whole thing is very western#(not to derail the post but most of attempts to see some charackers as fantasy polish were. uhm. not good. which is very in line with#western fandom way of microdosing on *other cultures*. pick some aesthetic level things and not ask anyone from said culture for input)#(there were some subtle ones that were fine! but most was. like. firstly. why) @gendertrickery (moving this from the post about centering white queer (and frequently middle class & western) experiences above all

GOD what a mood; obviously I am also western, white, queer, and middle-class but I've had a wild (negative) time as a Jewish person in fantasy fandom spaces my entire adult life, with people interspersing posts based on surface-level misinterpretations of Jewish culture they've headcanoned (rather than like. seeking out Jewish characters in other works) and fighting harder against goblins and the word "phylactery" than like, real-world antisemitism. I still think about how one of the people in this fandom who is quickest to claim everyone else is a bigot not only did various character nationality posts seemingly without input but has an entire headcanon involving the most basic Spanish error that literally anyone familiar with Spanish on any level would have noticed.

It really does feel like a lot of people want the appearance of being accepting of diverse experiences but refuse to accept anything that challenges their personal perspectives and hate that this is a contradictory set of desires, and so they only engage through headcanoning characters who aren't sufficiently like them as more like them (often by making characters who are not explicitly textually queer, queer) or characters who are already like them (again, often by being queer) as belonging to other cultures without ever exposing themselves to a variety of perspectives coming from that culture - when they do actually talk to someone it's usually someone they already mostly agreed with and often someone who is fairly westernized. I am genuinely wary around anyone who gets super into headcanons and defensive thereof because while on the surface it's harmless, a lot of them use headcanons as ammunition to prove they are open-minded without ever having to open their mind.

[intermundia]

hey all i just want to say that my ao3 inbox just hit some big round number that is completly intimidating and means everything to me. i am so sorry i dont have the executive function to reply to basically anything, but if you've left a comment on one of my stories, please know that i saw it and that connection made me remember why it's good to be alive when it's so so easy for me to forget, and i really hope that the fic functioned as a reciprocal offering of connection in lieu of a reply. it's breathtaking how kind people can be in response to doing something really vulnerable like posting queer erotica. i am very lucky and i appreciate everyone so much, like as intimidating as the subscriber number can be sometimes, i also look at it and think of each individual and feel a bit weepy to be honest. thank you all and i really hope to offer more stories soon. i have had some encouraging results doing some unrelated writing, and hope that i will be able to bring that back to obikin :)

[luckyjunehenry]

How did you come to terms with being you? I struggle with my identity being uncategorized or unlabeled because it seems to isolate me from communities I had grown familiar to being a part of— but I love the person I am and the things that make me my own little self. What moment helped you to realize it was okay to just be Jamie?

(Sent with so much love, a long time fan <3)

really really appreciate this question. for me, this was one of the few areas where getting kinda philosophical and theoretical about things helped me.

I believe that gender is socially constructed, and that my experience of my gender is primarily formed by social factors. when I was a little girl, I was surrounded by older butch lesbians in the neighborhood where I lived. there, being a girl made total sense to me, because there were no expectations keeping me from playing and building and dressing however I wanted to.

Moving to a more conservative town for middle school, being a girl did not make sense. there was no social precedent in my peers' life for a girl like me, which alienated me from the experience of being a girl. this was the first time I started questioning my gender.

transmasculinity connected me with other trans people in a way that felt so so so right. and then I started passing so well that other trans people wouldn't clock me. I never ever felt solidarity or kinship with cis men for various reasons. so this point in time was the most isolating gender experience (not to mention - actual physical isolation, 2020-2021)

I tried to live as a cis woman for a little while, and again, my experiences just didn't align with most cis women I met, and I failed at being read as a cis woman 99% of the time. at this point, I most closely aligned with trans women in terms of lived experience - but obviously, I did not label myself as a trans woman. so then it was like, well.. what am I then ???

my current social circle is full of people who truly see me as Jamie. I have cishet friends who I truly believe live very queer lives, I have friends who are trans and won't medically transition, I have friends who are cis girls who have felt similarly alienated from womanhood. these friends have seen me through countless changes. our understanding of our genders are very tied to one another. the women I love are the reasons I feel comfortable calling myself a woman, and my womanhood has influenced how my friends see themselves. I am forever shaped by these people and they are shaped by me, too.

Over the last year I've really found true peace with my ever-changing appearance and nebulous identity. I think being intentionally unpartnered really helped me with this, as well as meeting all sorts of trans people all over the country while on tour.

some cis people will never see me as a person, some trans people will never see me as trans, and I don't really want anything to do with anybody who thinks like that anyway.

(also, it's a lot easier to love and accept yourself when you have tens of thousands of people telling you you're doing a good job)

[thebroccolination]

I was between fandoms when I moved to Japan, and I missed being a Fever-Pitch Fan of something. By chance, I met someone through work who was The Nicest Takarazuka Superfan. She lit up when I told her I was trying to fill a fandom void, so I asked her to Teach Me the Ways because an All-Female Theatre Company with Five Themed Troupes like Snow and Flower and Star? Yes, please. This wonderful gem of a human being wrote me a cheat sheet on her Takarazuka stationery, introduced me to her friend group who helped share The Lore and explained to me why Their Girl was The Girl, and I took many earnest notes all the while, convinced that this was my new home.

When the day came for me to finally see a Takarazuka performance, it was also my coworker’s last show before she moved back to her country. Before the show, she approached her favorite actress and told her she wouldn’t be coming back anymore, and the two of them cried and hugged. I watched with her friends at a polite distance thinking, What a beautiful place this is. How lucky am I to be included in this? And then, while the show played out onstage in front of me inside a gorgeous theater, I thought, I couldn’t have handmade more perfect circumstances to become absolutely obsessed with a thing.

So what did my brain do?

“That was fun! :)”

I was a queer sapphic theatre major newly arrived in Japan who was HAND-GIFTED AN ALL-FEMALE THEATRE TROUPE AND AN IN-PERSON FANDOM, and my brain just went, “Oh yes. Very nice. Have to have my pictures when I travel.”

I’m so sorry to that superfan. I still have stern words with my brain about it.

Meanwhile, years later, I’m casually scrolling through Tumblr with nine other fandoms I’m partially committing to, and then gifs of these two chucklefucks clock me upside the head with a rock:

IT’S BEEN FIVE YEARS. LET ME GO.

it's so wild to me that you absolutely cannot force a hyperfixation to happen. like you'll watch the most perfectly tailor-made-for-you content that everyone says you'll love and feel absolutely nothing, and then the thing you watch on a whim to fill time will reach through the screen and put its damn fingers in your brain and start rearranging the neurons right in front of you and every single time you're like THIS??? THIS??????? and this happens like every 6-12 months forever

[anomaliex]

Bad Kids (partially shameless projection) queer identity headcanons be upon ye

Notable that I think culturally literally anything that is not human has different ideas of gender than us. Some are very close to the point it hardly matters in a discussion like this (like elves and dwarves. It's mostly the same but I do think most elves are what humans consider to be feminine because they have a different idea of masculinity ((grace)). Or like, most dwarves seem masculine to humans for the simple reason that they all tend to have beards. Stuff like that.), but the further away you get from being hey pretty close to what a human is (like orcs or goblins) the further you stray from human understanding of how things work.

What if being intersex is way more common in a race of people, the concept of gender immediately becomes either way looser and less important or important with completely different values. Also I work under the assumption that whatever counts as "humanoids" (which is a very human-centric term but I like to think that's just because our POV is from a language that is inherently human) is a mammal and will generally have two sexes. But like, there's organisms with more or less than that, and in a fantasy world there's absolutely societies of intelligent species with similar characteristics. Imagine a weird hand wave, not relevant to this specific discussion as the bad kids are all human-shaped but it's something I find interesting. What would gender be like in that society if they had it at all? Living somewhere where that concept isn't really a thing (or at least not a thing in the way we understand it to be) sounds kinda awesome.

That said. Solace is a society mostly shaped by human standards and everyone who lives there somewhat conforms to them; and anyone who grows up there is probably socialised accordingly. Also Gorgug is adopted and doesn't seem all that connected to his roots and Riz is a third gen immigrant who doesn't get to see his extended family all that much. What I'm saying is everything I just said hardly matters in the context of the Bad Kids. Yeah. I just wanted to say it. I'm. I'm autistic. Thanks for reading my word vomit you're a real one for sticking through this far here's what I actually wanted to say.

Kristen. Obviously a lesbian. she/her and calls herself a woman but ultimately doesn't really. Care that much? About gender? And would not mind being referred to with masculine terms, it's more a matter of being afab so that's what she's going with.

Adaine I think has experimented with she/they pronouns. Often times she feels like her perception of life goes far beyond whatever societal constructs influence the present and she does not feel particularly attached to the idea of womanhood. I think she's aro spec but probably allosexual? Develops interest in all that a bit later than her friends and even then it's not. The same. She thinks guys are attractive, maybe girls sometimes, but doesn't actually feel inclined to do anything about that? Isn't looking to get into relationships or anything but yeah.

Riz is aroace because yeah. Personally I think oriented aroace because Baron being masc-ish does mean something to me, so he doesn't necessarily say it / find it relevant for other people to know but Riz personally IDs as gay + aroace. He does think some guys are attractive he's just sex repulsed lmao. I think he's the flavour of aroace where he'd happily engage in deep emotional bonds he just really doesn't understand what the fuck romantic feelings are supposed to be and how it'd be different than just loving his best friend(s) truly so much and is discomforted by the societal expectations and restrictions around the concept of "dating". ALSO about gender he's a he and its whatever. Does not care. Gender apathetic in the way Kristen is.

Gorgug isn't particularly attached to any labels, I think. He just likes who he likes, which is several people sometimes because he's also polyam. I think his lax view of his own inherent queerness has a lot to do with how open (and also inherently queer) his parents are. He just never really thought about it. Hit puberty and started thinking guys are hot and went okay this is not in any way special I'm way more worried about my favourite emo band breaking up rn. The only reason he ever came out to his friends was because he asked them for advice on how to bring up that he's polyam with Zelda (who I think was super cool with that and honestly from what we know that might be culturally normal to her), he does not consider it to be particularly noteworthy. Gorgug is similarly not particularly concerned about gender. I think he goes by any pronouns but also doesn't bring that up unless someone asks because he truly does not care or think it's a big deal.

Fabian's entire general person-ness feels queer to me idk. Bisexual and polyamorous. Probably aro-spec but he needs more time to figure that one out. Exclusively finds himself interested in women who are taller than him, this has nothing to do with being queer I just wanted to note that. He's the only one of the Bad Kids where I want to confidently say yeah this is a he/him man and he feels both comfortable in and connected to his masculinity. He ventures into gender nonconformity (starts with painting his nails, then make up, maybe a skirt when he's chilling at mordred manor) more and more as he gets older and more comfortable, I think, but that kind of only reaffirms to him that he's a man and loves being a man? Idk lol. Also for the record this is nonconformity in the context of Solace. For (high-)elven standards he's not like hypermasc dude bro but he's a pretty "manly" guy. Fallinel is like twink nation idk what to tell you. Now whether he's cis or not is a different question, while I personally think he is I do make a little mental cheer every time someone makes him trans.

Fig. They/she/it. She struggles with the disconnect she feels between her and the girl she thought she was a lot and it sucks, but eventually it does lead them to reexamine how they see themself and their identity and stuff. I think she eventually comes to the conclusion that yeah she has some attachment to femininity but ultimately exists in a space beyond the binary. Which is cool. Idk what label Fig would use, if any at all, but maybe something loose like genderqueer.

I know it's very commonly accepted that she's bisexual but like. Honestly. I think that was comphet. I think Fig is a lesbian who had some of the most horrendous comphet imaginable. None of their interest in those (concerningly) older men was genuine and it was all pretending to be someone else to get something and she isn't even sure why she wants that something that she can't quite place. And even though it longs so badly for the validation and confirmation that it's fitting into whatever role it is Fig is trying to emulate, she doesn't ever actually dare to get "serious". That's not actually what she wants. Uncomfortable and deeply concerning desperation for sexuality from a teenage girl who probably isn't a girl and certainly isn't actually interested in any of the men she's pursuing, and is so scared of just having to exist as herself deep down is such a real experience and if d20 wasn't a comedy show this could be the most visceral arc.

[persephonethewanderer]

Kinda want you to elaborate on your "Allerton has an anorexic mind" thought.

absolutely. the thing with allerton is that he’s so very repressed and in need of control at all times. this manifests also in this heightened sense of exhilaration he clearly experiences in having lee being “addicted” to him in such a profound and desperate way. because it shows him how much power he has while doing the bare minimum (akin to how often anorexic people — and i can say so because i am one myself — think that being able to do things without ingesting any food is almost a super power because others require what you don’t).

this, of course, is paired with the importance of food and alcohol in almost every interaction he has with lee. where he uses them to sublimate his desire and shame through their overconsumption (case in point the kebab scene), only to later feel sick about it (drinking so much he has to vomit).

furthermore, in the book queer, lee is obsessed with eugene’s skinniness to the point that part of the reason why he’s so preoccupied with his ribs is because they are so evident. eugene himself often remarks on how small he is (instead of rebuking the idea as a man from that time would, since being skinny would’ve been perceived almost as an insult) , and this is present both in the book and in the original script:

if you pair it with burroughs’ own remarks about marker (the guy eugene is based on), i.e. calling him “baby bird” as shown here in this passage from burroughs, a biography by barry miles:

it certainly paints a picture that lends itself to such an interpretation.

[devilledeggss]

No. That was partially the point of the original post. To use your example, “Lesbian spaces are for women ONLY” not only disallows questioning lesbians to bring their safe and comfortable cishet friends and family for support, making them much less likely to engage in any irl queer spaces to begin with because THEY do not feel safe without people they know, but it also inherently excludes actual lesbians, including me as I am nonbinary and very much Not A Woman. That statement literally makes a “lesbian” space unsafe for so many different types of lesbians.

It excludes most ftm lesbians, transmasc lesbians, and many trans woman lesbians. Some lesbians are literally fucking living as cis men rn and wondering if other men have also fantasized about being a woman. The statement “Lesbian spaces are for women ONLY” simply gives the organizers an out by allowing them to turn away anyone THEY deem to be “too male.” Exclusionary spaces and tactics are extremely binary, cisnormative, and usually straight up transphobic. Like I do not understand the need to be exclusionary when it harms so many people of our own community.

I’m gonna end on a positive note. A few months ago the gay bathhouse in my city shut down for a trans and dyke play party takeover of the bathhouse. It was a private event that people bought tickets to. Part of the marketing was basically, "Who can come? If you identify with the terms trans or dyke, you're welcome. Bi/pan and otherwise queer women welcome. If you think you belong, you do." So of course I went, and there were all kinds of people there. Trans women, trans men, and, *gasp*, some people who looked like cis men. And nobody was traumatized. Like be so ffr. Most people are not a threat, and queer spaces really do not need to be exclusionary to be made for and by a specific group of queers. The place was full of trans people and dykes because that's who it was made for, without the need for exclusion rhetoric.

since a lot of people don't have the opportunity to interact with irl queer spaces, i want to point out yet another reason why "lesbian spaces are for women ONLY" doesn't work. attending a queer space for the first time, especially while questioning your identity, is scary. you don't know the terms or lingo yet, you don't know exactly how you feel about your queer experience, you're still discovering yourself. a lot of people bring friends, or even family, to queer spaces for support. sometimes those friends and family are cishet

the first time i went to my university's pride organization, i took my cishet ally best friend. the first time i went to my current city's trans resource center to ask about starting testosterone HRT, i took my cishet ally best friend. neither time were either of them questioned. nobody saw either of them as a threat. they were welcomed just like i was.

like i don't get why this causes people to hiss like cats, but this is very, very normal, and encouraged because, here's the really important part: when those cishet folks are treated warmly and with an open reception, this creates allies. the most important part of irl queer spaces is the alliance. this part is completely lost in online queer spaces.

my college's pride organization was called "[university]'s Gay/Straight Alliance" this was 15 years ago before we moved toward using "queer" or "LGBT" as an umbrella term and were still using Gay as an umbrella for all queer experiences. the terms could be updated to something more inclusive, but the point still stands that the was on emphasis queer/non queer alliance. you were more than welcome to bring your non-queer friends and family. you were encouraged to come in and ask questions if you were not queer, but wanted to learn more. it was a space that welcomed everyone.

like, sometimes, the supportive ally parents of queer children show up, too, and we have to let them in. why would we ever sacrifice educating cishet parents on how to properly treat their children for the sake of "keeping the space for [identity] ONLY"? why would we deny cishet family members the education they need to gender and address their family members correctly? to learn more about our culture and accept us?

this is the literal lifeblood of our community. we need to open our doors to allies. we need to allow people to bring their friends and families, it's how queerphobes and non queer people come to accept and humanize us. all queer spaces need to be this accepting. and besides, we should never alienate people who are just coming out, or used to identify with a gender that doesn't "Belong" in your community. that's just not how we work around these parts.

[stupidlittlespirit]

i've seen the "he'd never date a woman" thing with ford so much, which i think about a lot. like it's one thing to just headcanon him as gay but there are a lot of posts where internalized or blatant misogyny shine bright. one i saw straight up had multiple people going "he respects women too much to want to date/fuck them" like hello? do you realize what you are implying ab real women when you say that?

i'm not great at articulating my thoughts but i think it's especially prominent with ford because of his intelligence + unconventional demeanor. he's off-putting and a genius and didn't want to give up his work to settle down into a standard marriage with kids. women can't be weird or smart in the same way men can for example and all women want the typical white picket fence nuclear family american dream. therefore you are off your gourd if you think he'd ever want to be with a woman. so there’s that on top of the already rampant misogyny present in fandom spaces with shipping especially.

there's also the whole "gibe the oracle your phone number" / "i miss dimension 52" that could have some implications if you want but ig i can't blame people for forgetting jeselbraum because hirsch barely expands on her LOL. but basically it’s all up to interpretation and it really isn’t all that wild to think he could be attracted to women.

personally i just enjoy projecting my own sexuality onto him. “what gender are you attracted to?” don’t care. can i show you my isopod colonies. “how would you describe your sexual attraction?” uhhhhhhhhhhh (<- is probably demisexual)

So, I deleted my post because I felt like I was rehashing points I'd previously made a million times before, but I stand by it.

I want to address what you said and then I want to kind of go on a tangent (shocker, I know) about the interpretation of GF at large because I've been engaging with a lot of Lynch stuff recently, who we know was by and large the most influential person for Hirsch, and one of the biggest things around Lynch's work is the beauty of subjectiveness. I think Hirsch carries that legacy with him at the heart of his work.

So yeah, the comments about Ford 'respecting women too much' is insane. If anyone thinks that they are probably the kind of person who doesn't respect a woman anyway. If your hands sully the one you touch, perhaps your hands were not so clean to begin with, yknow? That's the vibe I always get with those kinds of comments.

Society approaches women so differently from men in this regard, as you said. Where a man is 'quirky' and 'cool', a woman is 'annoying' or 'trying too hard'. She suffers for her differences where as he profits for them. She can only commit the crime of being Cringe, and in my experience, people will forgive many things but never that.

There is certainly merit in the way in which a lot of people recognise that Ford is partial to things that are 'weird' or that are shunned by society, especially because of his hands, and that plays well into Queer culture. It's a feeling most of us (if not all of us) experience. So I can see where there connection comes and it's totally cool to hold that belief. Queer is BIG umbrella and I think he falls under it myself, what with the ace/aro stuff. We're given much more canon evidence of him being ace/aro, in fact, than of anything else. I maintain personally that canon Ford is asexual and aromantic, and that romance doesn't factor into his life in the way it does for 'normal' people. It's why when Bill mentions that quiz Ford does in his dreams in TBoB it makes me think of my own struggles with asexuality: "I'm not normal, everyone else is feeling this type of way and I'm feeling that type of way. There's something wrong with me. I'm weird. I need answers." It feels very much like Ford is attempting to understand that side of himself and is very afraid of the answer.

The Oracle stuff makes me so sad it was never expanded on more. I really love Jheselbraum and it felt like she was one of the first people that Ford met who was of higher intelligence than him, and who actually did just want to help. She extended an extreme kindness to him. Whether it was more than that doesn't even really matter. There was still a relationship formed there that can't be discounted. But again, it can be interpreted in lots of different ways.

This is the other thing. There's nothing wrong with projecting yourself onto your favourite character. We all do it. I do it. It's fun and it brings comfort. And that's okay! But that means we can all do it. So it's unfair for someone else to say "you're wrong for thinking XYZ about Ford" because we're all just kids in a sandbox playing house with these characters. You can't gatekeep someone else's enjoyment.

You can believe Ford is gay. You can believe Ford is ace. You can believe Ford is whatever you want him to be, but what you can't do is then rescind that privilege from someone else just because you don't like it or because it makes you feel better about yourself to punch down on someone else. People are entitled to their own interpretations of media, even if they make you feel uncomfortable or whatever.

Which brings us onto Lynch. Now, I'm not a huge surrealist fan, I like Lynch most for the person that he was (ugh I'm still so sad to type that). One of the biggest things about him was that he valued the intelligence of his audience and respected them enough to allow them the space to interpret his works as they saw fit. He never wanted to define his films in a way that would prevent another person from taking their own meaning from it. There was no definition, only feeling.

There's a clip of him being asked to expand on his meaning for one of his films, I forget which one, and he just replies "no". It's so fucking good because that, to me, is art. It is fundamentally subjective in its existence and the way I view something is not going to be the way someone else does, so why take that interpretation away from one to give to another just for their approval? We may align in thoughts but the way we process the media is going to be entirely different. Why? Because we're different people. Our experiences throughout our lives have informed the way we interact with things.

I think Alex Hirsch enjoys other people making their own interpretations of his work in a similar way. Just as Lynch does. Hirsch wants you, the audience, to derive personal meaning. He doesn't need (or even want) to tell you how to engage with the themes because why would he? It would only make him work harder to get a simpler point across and it would risk alienating parts of his audience. He wants the audience to connect and to find their own familiarities, and he respects his audience enough to give them the space to let them do that. He's often evasive when he's asked to tie things down firmly. To be honest, I think he should be braver in just saying "no, I don't want to answer that" sometimes. You can tell he wants to but he also wants to engage with people so it can be hard.

People are very desperate to want to have answers in black and white. They need things to be canon in order to feel vindicated, when in actual fact, an idea is just as legitimate when it comes to fiction. Fiction IS an idea. It isn't tangible and therefore cannot be quantified, so it can be interpreted however.

Anyway, by forcing your interpretation of the work onto others (ie. 'Ford would never', 'Stan would never' etc), I think you fundamentally misunderstand what the purpose of the work is. You're taking away the light of other people because you're scared yours doesn't shine bright enough. And you're scared because other people previously took your light away, but all you're doing is repeating the cycle and taking away from the rest of us.

Your ideas can coexist with others. No one is right and in that, everyone is right. Does that make sense? Idk.

I voice my opinions of disliking certain ways the fandom engages with elements of the show, but I don't think they have less right to have those ideas than I do to have my own. I interpret Bill as one way and someone else will interpret him another. That's okay. You're allowed to do that. But I don't think you're allowed to be actively vicious to others over it.

Engage with honesty and recognise that other people enjoys things in different ways, and it's okay not to control the narrative of that sometimes.

I have my criticisms of Hirsch but I also have a lot of love for the guy, and one of the biggest things I respect about him is him allowing us to draw our own beliefs. Do I think he could stand to do some things better? Yes. But that doesn't mean I don't love what I already have from his work.

I'm not sure if this makes sense, I'm having a bit of a Day, but I hope it at least reads well enough to convey my meaning.

[nerdygaymormon]

What do you think about the new changes to the Handbook?

Someone else asked me about this earlier today and it surprised me because I didn't know about any recent changes. So I did some exploring and I think what happened is Latter Gay Stories shared that an Area Authority has decided speakers like Richard Ostler, Ben Schilaty and Charlie Bird are no longer permitted to speak at LGBTQ-focused "events" in LDS meetinghouses, and referred to a section of the Handbook to justify his decision. Latter Gay Stories then made a post about this section and called it a "recent" change, and that got everyone's attention.

The changes being referred to happened several years ago and caused quite a stir and a lot of pushback, and soon the policy was adjusted with the addition of the phrase "in a way that detracts from meetings focused on the Savior." The addition of that phrase essentially defanged what could've been a very harsh policy.

Below is a screenshot of a paragraph in section 38.1.1 of the Handbook, which looks the same as it has for several years

Do I wish that "sexual orientation and other personal characteristics" was not included? Yes. They shouldn't have been paired with political statements because political beliefs are changeable and a choice. As for personal characteristics, there's so many, such as race, ethnicity, skin color, disability, gender, age, and so on, so why single out sexual orientation?

I believe whoever got this sentence included in the Handbook did intend for it to silence any mention of queerness at church, but because of the outcry against such a policy, it got neutered.

If they truly want to enforce no talking about sexual orientation at church, that would be a HUGE change. Think of all the times someone new moves into the ward and they introduce themselves by telling about how they met their spouse, about their children, and so on. That's clearly talking about their sexual orientation and how they acted on it.

P.S. The restrictions on LGBTQ-focused "events" to not happen in LDS meetinghouses, that's limited to just some parts of Utah, it's not churchwide. There's an area presidency in Utah that takes very hard-line stances on LGBTQ topics.

[unforth]

How did it feel to go from the 80’s to the explosion of acceptance around the 2010’s? In terms of being queer?

hm, interesting question. First, a couple disclaimers: I am not an expert in queer history, I was not involved in queer activism in anyway growing up, and no one in my family was queer. I was born in 1982 and am currently 42, and my mother had a lot of gay friends, but she intentionally sheltered us (my brother and I) from a lot of that once they all started dying from AIDs. For my own queerness, I worked through a lot of identities because I was an extremely confused asexual who didn't actually learn that asexuality existed until I was 30; I'm afab and was already married to a woman before I realized I was ace (I now ID as aroace, agender.).

All that said, I grew up in New York City, in a very accepting city and with a very accepting family. I knew queer people from a young age and my mom was sick of watching her friends die and got involved as she could (she was a New York City public school high school teacher; a lot of queers gravitated toward public schools because it was a stable job with decent pay and no one would care if they weren't married, in fact it was often considered a plus in the 60s and 70s for teachers to be single, and when mom got pregnant with my brother in 1976 she says multiple other teachers pressured her to quit because okay fine she was married and a teacher, but married and a teacher WITH KIDS? Appalling. needless to say she didn't quit.)

Anyway. Sorry. I lost the thread.

Honestly, the answer to this question is: utterly unbelievable.

If you had told 1990s about-to-start-high-school me that this is where we'd be in my lifetime I'd have thought you were out of your goddamn mind. I was obsessed with To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! Julie Newmar. I'd walked in AIDs walk and raised money with my mom every year starting in 1990. Mom and I saw the original off-Broadway production of Hedwig and the Angry Inch and the original Broadway production of Rent. I was about as in-the-loop and accepting as a kid in that era could be, and I spent my college years thinking I was bi (I feel the same about everyone! that's bi, right? lmao, so young and clueless). And I never, never thought that nationwide gay marriage was even in the cards. I never dreamed that trans people would be able to live as openly as they do now. I didn't even really think we could do much about AIDs beyond slowing the spread.

I am only 42. I don't even consider myself middle-aged yet (though I'm definitely getting close to that particular tipping point). I grew up with my mom's even older stories, about being friends with the gay men at Cornell when she was in college in the early 60s, and her discussions of how far things had come in HER life (she's 80 now) and yet I was the one who pointed out that my great uncle, who died before I was born, was clearly mostly definitely bi and maybe gay (the look on her face when I said that and she realized I must be right. I keep meaning to post some of Natie's photographs.)

When my wife and I got married in 2013 we planned where to live, where we could travel, where we'd have kids, all around where it would be safe. My wife has health problems; if we traveled and something happened to her, we had to be sure that we were in a state where they would recognize our marriage and let me visit her, or else we wouldn't go there.

Sorry. I'm not holding the thread of narrative in this post well, I've been pretty sick with strep throat and my brain is just refusing to make this very coherent, and also it's just... so much. The amount I've seen, how far we've come, since I was a kid, is so fucking much.

I still sometimes don't believe how far we've come, nor how quickly we've done it.

And that's exactly why conservatives are shaking in their boots. These trends challenge all the things they believe true about the nature of authority and societal control. If they let up for an instant, then they'll have to accept that cis hetero white christian men actually have never been any better than anyone else, and their whole worlds will crumble, and that scares them to death because they're also old, most older than I, and they remember exactly what every queer person when I was a kid lived with. They remember Matthew Shepard, and all the hate crimes that the queer community survived, they remembered all the slurs that we've strived to reclaim and how they were used such that we had to reclaim them, and they really think that equality is a demotion for them, and that true equality would mean they're subject to the same things they've subjected us to, and that terrifies them.

Ugh, sorry, rambling again.

What I think about the changes is that they're fucking amazing, and that if I could somehow convince 13-year-old me that any of this would happen, she'd have sobbed with joy. Especially about the asexual part lmao.

We're in a down-swing of acceptance now, but the pendulum still won't go back to where we were during the AIDs crisis, much less back to where things were a hundred years ago.

We've come so far.

We're not going back.