#I should re-watch the donghua....

[sillyful-jua]

I love lynnick

[baeshijima]

OMG HI sorry for randomly appearing in your inbox but i had no idea you like tgcf?!?? omg. i perfectly understand the whiplash between hualian being.... hualian and the absolute tragedy beefleaf is going through 😭😭 still experiencing five stages of grief after the revenge scene and here we have hualian. living their best life HAJSHD

im very much unwell about beefleaf in general..... both about the ship but also about the characters + shi wudu and their entire story... like its so tragic?????? and also an amazing topic for many character analysis and essays but shh... id be very happy to see this all play out without the gut-wrenching angst but alas 💔💔 the angst is what we get........

KHSD UR FINE DW AND YES I LOVE TGCF 😭 its been so long since i read the novel so some things a re blurry but ourghghg... i should reread it... and i need to catch up on the donghua bc i havent watched s2 onwards ;w;;

no bc its literally just. hualian doing their thing and having their moment so the hualian lover in me cheered so hard and cried tears of joy only to find the beefleaf audio drama right after and wallow in despair and anguish 🧍‍♀️one couple is getting it on and the other is going through absolute hell i cannot why would they do this to us 🧍‍♀️

AND NO BC SAME 😭 like on one hand i understand hx and his revenge and the fact his existence as a ghost built on vengeance and such cant go against his cause, but on the other the absolute pain and anguish sqx went through in the blackwater arc and apologising and screaming and crying and begging hx and ourhgkh GIVE ME ALL HIS PAIN AND SUFFERING INSTEAD MXTX WHEN I CATCH UUUU

hx: what did you call me?

sqx: ming-xiong...

hx: you called for the wrong person.

THROWS UP I HATE THEM AND SWD TELLING SQX HE IS LEAVING FIRST AND HE WILL MEET HIM LATER WITH SQX CONSTANTLY APOLOGISING IM SOOO

LIKE

AND ON TOP OF THE ANIMATED VERSION OF THE ART??? LOSING MY MIND I HATE IT HERE

on another note, i just saw someone on twt put the beefleaf audio over the "I JUST WANNA BE PART OF YOUR SYMPHONY 🐬🐬🐬🌈🌈🌈 🎶 🎶" meme with the dolphins and sparkles and i think that killed me :D

[unforth]

So tgcf nation how yall planning to watch?

I'm thinking I'll see how close to simulcast Crunchyroll is doing. If they get it by like...Thursday...I'll just watch there. Otherwise it's time to re-up Bilibili...

Tho actually...there's a mess of other stuff I want to watch on Bilibili, like Lie Huo Jiao Chou and Legend of Exorcism s2 and isn't there a Can Ci Pin donghua and and and.

So maybe I should just suck it up. Idk. I have so little time to watch things but I did just manage to finish Tianbao Fuyao Lu s1 on Saturday and s2 isn't on Netflix.

Being a fan of things not easily available in my country is hard. 😔

[incarnadinedreams]

So I finally finished reading TGCF! (The main novel, I haven't gotten to the extras yet). I watched the first season of the donghua ages ago (right after I watched what was available of the MDZS donghua at the time and before I read the MDZS novel), then started reading TGCF as the first volumes of the official English versions were releasing and fell off.

My original plan was to "catch up" through book 5 and just keep up with the official releases. As soon as I finished book 5 I immediately abandoned that plan and went straight to the fan translations (whatever, I'll still be buying the officials as they release so I don't feel too guilty about it).

Anyway, I am feeling..... surprisingly normal about this book? I enjoyed it and had fun reading it and so far have not felt any inklings of obsessive derangement over it.

(Extremely long and rambling first impressions/thoughts after a single quick read below the cut, probably not that interesting. May contain major spoilers, and sorta comparing it to MDZS and specifically JC a bit just because the comparisons get pushed a lot because of the overlap in the fandoms)

Anyway, as a Jiang Cheng Enjoyer I've fairly often seen people say things like 'you should just read TGCF, Mu Qing is actually what JC stans wish Jiang Cheng was' or 'Mu Qing is Jiang Cheng but done right' and I just....... kinda don't see it?

Anyway... Is it just me? Am I stupid and missing something?

I mean, there are some obvious parallels and MXTX very clearly has a pattern/dynamic/formula she likes with the 'best friend side characters' slot, re-used some similar surface-level descriptions for Mu Qing that had been applied to Jiang Cheng (bad-tempered, sarcastic, unlikable, good looking, etc). So I'm definitely not saying people are totally wrong for seeing a connection there.

But they didn't actually feel all that similar to me beyond a handful of traits? And not only because of the tragic lack of jilfy purple electro-whip.

I think part of the problem is that Mu Qing suffered from a serious case of "tell, don't show" in his portrayal... in the text we're being told by other characters that he's so unlikable or has such a nasty personality or is so untrustworthy... but then rarely or never actually says or does anything "on camera" to show that?

Like, this isn't "he has done nothing wrong!" in the "I shall protect this precious blorbo of my heart" way, it's in the "ummmmmm... he has actually... not done anything wrong in this situation...? And I am confused as to why these characters are reacting to him in a way that is so wildly out of proportion to what has actually happened?"

As much as I love Jiang Cheng, he does at least actually say some mean things "on screen" in the novel to earn that bad-tempered sharp-tongued characterization. I might personally think he was perfectly justified in saying about 98% of them and being pissed as hell, but at least he actually does the being angry and bitter and verbal lashing out that he's characterized with. (Though I think he actually does a lot less of it than people seem to think, as most of the time he's just being pretty normal actually. But there are some scenes at least.) Of course, conversely, Wei Wuxian does also do many more actually bad things to balance it out too and make JC's on-screen anger/reactions make a lot more sense.

But Mu Qing on the other hand... a few snippy comments and some eye rolling? Everything else always ends up being someone else baselessly accusing him based on some accidental circumstances that got cleared up with reasonable explanations. His involvement in the whole turf war over the meditation place was mostly him showing up after the rest of them had already made up their minds and he was trying to de-escalate the situation without losing the job he was using to support his mother with or creating more problems.

The only kinda bad things I think he does (be okay with the idea of using the Human Face Disease against the Yong'an people to stop it from spreading in the Xianle capital city) is one of the few things that nobody actually has any issue with him for! You could argue that it was bad to get Hua Cheng kicked out of the army... but also he was 14 and there are no actual details given and tbh that kid was kinda creepy from an outside perspective (even if I liked him)...

To be honest I'd seen a few people making vague comments about his "betrayal" in the past so I knew it was coming, but "I'm gonna go take care of my mom instead of doing these former rich fuck's laundry" was so deeply underwhelming on the betrayal scale I was like "wait, that's it?"

I mean there was not even a siege involved...? Not a single declaration of hatred? Not even a little bit of threatened torture?

Anyway, I was already still feeling some kind of way about that royal laundry situation when I got to the scene in Mt Tonglu where Mu Qing is all "I was in awe of you, you're a better person than me and I wanted to be your friend" while Xie Lian is like "um well you'd spit in someone's cup but you wouldn't poison it so I don't want you to die I guess."

I just felt sort of vaguely put off by the whole exchange and the sense of a total lack of reciprocity from Xie Lian. His whole vibe is "well I don't dislike you enough to let you die, and saving people is my thing in general so, y'know, here I am saving you."

Because what made the whole dynamic work in MDZS was how (even if the characters didn't necessarily know it about the other) they just cared about each other so much, to an absolutely unhinged degree, and that felt missing here. So even though WWX has some of the same vibe of negative or resentful opinions of JC at points, it hits different because they're laid on the backdrop of an utterly unhinged sacrifice specifically and uniquely for Jiang Cheng (which, unknown to WWX, was needed because of a more standard in type but but still unhinged sacrifice of his own that was specifically and uniquely for WWX)

I don't necessarily mind that specific relationship being different or less intense in TGCF (in fact I prefer that it's not just a copy-paste of the same characters going by different names with a bit more polish, the way some people made it sound like it would be), but the way that specific scene played out given the backdrop of how MQ keeps getting treated throughout the rest of the story just felt icky to me. Idk.

A lot of the way the characters interacted with each other just felt like the action and reactions were a little mismatched or something? Something about the behaviors involved didn't ring as painfully, horribly, clearly true to me as they did in so many MDZS scenes.

Anyway I did enjoy both Mu Qing and Feng Xin as characters, I'll definitely be indulging in some FengQing content (recs/links welcome if anyone actually read this far lol), just specifically their relationship with Xie Lian did not inspire in me even a teensy fraction of the depths of absolute feral obsession that the Yunmeng Shuangjie relationship does. It... just did not resonate that way with me. If I had to speculate (in a wild and baseless fashion, source: my ass), I think that toning down the intensity might have even been intentional on the author's part this go around.

Anyway a lot of that was mostly because the expectation of a strong parallel and deep reaction to the Xianle trio's relationship was pre-planted in my mind, and such expectations are generally always doomed to fall short anyway.

As far as the rest of the novel, like I said - it was generally quite enjoyable, I had fun reading it, I'm certainly not trying to trash it! I'd say I actually overall enjoyed the HuaLian relationship developing in the novel itself more than WangXian, in terms of how the flirting was executed. Like "what if you had an extremely dangerous and fervently obsessed stalker, but also make it cute". I don't dislike WangXian, but for me their relationship was just a fun side-plot and not what I really cared about or kept reading for. I did find the Hong-er and lantern ghost flashback scenes quite touching and sweet.

The first ~200 chapters (by the web novel serialization chapter numbers) I'd say were generally constructed better than MDZS, so I see where people say there was a bit of a level up there. The last ~40ish chapters the pacing felt kind of off to me, like there was just too much crammed in and MXTX just wanted it to be over and done with.

The 'uncovering secrets of an ancient lost empire/kingdom' type of plot is my absolute jam, my favoritest trope of all time, I actually loved the concepts there. It was like a two-for-one, since we got the learn about the fall of Xianle which scratched that itch a little bit, and then the full-on mystery aspect with Wuyong. I wish there had been more time spent on the mystery/uncovering information about Wuyong aspect of the plot rather than the answers coming relatively quickly.

Unsurprisingly in addition to Feng Xin and Mu Qing, I was a huge fan of Yushi Huang, Ling Wen, Shi Qingxuan, He Xuan, Lang Qianqiu (his adorable golden retriever energy is irresistible when combined with a Tragic Backstory), Guzi, Yin Yu, Quan Yizhen

Surprise favs were Pei Ming (I'd only seen through the donghua S1 so I kinda had him categorized in my mind as the offscreen God of Fuckboys, but ended up liking him an unreasonable amount) and Qi Rong

Anyway I had all of these thoughts while I was reading then felt a bit guilty about them when I read the postscript because I am the person she was afraid of coming over to read TGCF after MDZS :x

[wordsknowsnobounds]

I remember, although now not if the freshness of when I actually started in the fandom, but I still remember the dissonance I felt as I had just finished the book and dived into the fanfic and found so much hate and misunderstanding over characters I found so easy to understand their motivations.

I can't say some of my views were later tainted by fandom, the longer I dived into fanfic before I found myself into a Discord group where I could find people that knew more than I did about Danmei and Xianxia. MDZS wasn't my first experience with both, considering I have watched some movies and other dramas before, and my first MXTX book was TGCF, but I hardly knew enough. So entering the Discord group was like a breath of fresh air in terms of knowledge and learning more about a culture and small details we miss as an outsider audience.

I even re-examined what I knew about the characters, and learned more about others I didn't care as much I still have some I don't care even after, but I did learn more about them and found some respect for them, and I guess that my dissonance with fandom at large grew even more. But then I remember my experience in another fandom - Teen Wolf - that it's just as full as its own complicated relationship between fandom and canon, and something someone I met in it said stuck with me, "People have limited empathy to give characters, and they bestow it onto their favorite characters" or something in similar words, and this couldn't be any less true.

People are more inclined to analyze, or overanalyze, a character they care more, they give that character more leniency or more reasons for the way they act if they identify with the character more. However, the problem starts when the analysis becomes something personal instead of steaming from the character written in the text, and the fact MDZS has so many versions that bring with them their varied canons makes it even more complex.

Because we have the novel with flawed, but three-dimensional characters that have a variation of reasons and motivations for the actions they did, and even in it some are afforded more slack than others. We have a TV Drama that had to pass through a censorship in both content and ideals, they couldn't have a hero that lost control or wasn't as pure as some wished him to be - and taking WWX blame of the ones he was guilty of took a lot of him as a character - and threw all the guilt on another one took a lot of the narrative that the world isn't as simple or black and white. We have the donghua that added some little more flair to certain circumstances and gave a more villainous plot for something that was a good change in the novel, and completely butchered another character. Not only that, but we also have an Audio Book version and a Manhua, but since I haven't either heard one or read the other, I can't say much about them.

All these different canons end up leading to different interpretations, but also leads to misunderstandings and people talking in different "languages", since The Untamed and the Donghua have crucial differences in relation to the Novel. Another thing that adds into the dissonance I have with fandom at large, it's also the whole problem I see of the interpretations that disregard cultural and historical differences. Yes, MDZS happens in a fantasy ancient China, but they still have a different set of morals and beliefs that differ from what we consider as the norm today.

I've seen too much fics of characters raising a fuss about things they never did and would never do in the context they lived and because of who they were and believed in, because they weren't considered amoral or wrong in context. Although, MDZS discussion shouldn't be about morality at all or who has the higher ground to claim it. Or who is right and who is wrong, because that's not the story, that's not what we should have taken of it, because the beauty of MDZS it's because it tells a story of very much human characters, with human motivations, human fails and human emotions.

It feels frustrating to muddle through fics and metas that you read, and your first reaction is: no, that's not it, that's not 'character x'. It feels disheartening that if you try to disagree with something or have something to say about a character or that the majority of fandom have a specific opinion you're either said to be an anti or an apologist. It's rare to find spaces and places where you can have good discussions without someone attacking you for one reason or another. So working that dissonance becomes an even more difficult task when you feel you can't speak because of fear of being targeted.

But I guess that I got tired, and just wanted my frustrations to get out and about on the outside world, so here I am. I'm putting my face out there, I might get burned, but I think I needed to try.

-The Sole Nie out.

[iantimony]

accidentally back to tuesdaypost

despite my best efforts, shabbat came and went and i did not make my post. oops. trying a new heading template this week as well.

maybe not this week but i am thinking of starting to host images for the making section somewhere else...maybe on gdrive? or postimages.org? imgur? just so that if my tumblr ever breaks the images in dreamwidth won't vanish.

listening

partizan! halfway through episode 12 right now, which means, according to where i was last week-ish, i am averaging about one episode a day LOL. extreme sport FatT speedrunning. also relistening to all is as all should be recently, just scratches a brain itch for some reason. it's very brain-worm-able to me, i've been humming songs from it all week.

reading i was going to say fallow and then went. hooold on. i've been reading SO many things just not, like, books.

wikipedia articles of the week: Naomi Shihab Nye, Rachel's Tomb, Matzevah, Alexandre Cabanel, Abd el-Ouahed ben Messaoud, Leo Africanus

because it's november and i'm nostalgic for nanowrimo (and considering doing it again once i'm done with classes and therefore homework), i went and reread some of my nano from when i was in high school and WOW. nostalgia!!! some of it is very very bad, unsurprisingly, it was almost 10 years ago, but some of it is actually quite good. very fond of the comments left by a friend on it that were preserved when i downloaded the google doc a billion years ago to save on my external drive, including one that said "your prose is crisp like an autumn apple" or some fucking thing like that. truly delightful. i'd also somehow forgotten that i'd actually hit the word goal? the document is about 60k words give or take, the story was not finished though which is probably why i misremembered. i should start writing again.

in my quest to populate my inoreader with blogs and other such things i've been delving into my bookmarks and re-found this delightful site, their most recent article is just the world's most specific niche horn memes it's so funny. like this is absolutely meaningless to literally everyone else that it passes back into absurdity and probably funny to non-horn players again. i am VERY excited to peruse their pdf library though.

playing pokegoooooo. i am visiting my grandma and going on long night walks around the old people development with pokego is very elite. i am a little nervous that someone will call security on me though because i frequently just stop (often like...in front of people's apartment buildings....) and stand still to catch pokemon if a bunch have spawned in one location...

watching i have not watched it yet but i am VERY excited to start season 2 of the tgcf donghua!!

watched kurtis connor's "deep dive into potterheads" and literally cheered out loud at the end when he mentioned the snapewives. that made me want to watch strange aeons so i also watched her video on msscribe and snapewives.

i wasn't On Livejournal or active in fandom while everything was going down but i remember learning about it a few years after it all happened so seeing comprehensive deep dives now is very, very...satisfying isn't quite the right word, but i am a messy bitch who lives for drama especially when i'm not involved in it. what a mess.

making pottery!!! i have a bunch of stuff coming out from a glaze run that i'm very excited to see but it will have to wait til saturday when i get home from visiting my grandma for thanksgiving. i do however have pictures of this little box i made:

it was a gift for my grandma, and i glazed it all the way back in the beginning of october i think? the kilns got monopolized by some other stuff for the owner's business (which is super fair) which means we didn't get a student project run until literally friday, two days before i was supposed to leave town, so after some texting with her she was able to put it out on her porch around 11pm on saturday when the kiln cooled down enough so i was able to pick it up at like 5:30am on my drive to the airport LOL so all in all it worked out! next roundup post will have pictures of some of my other glazed pieces, i'm very very curious how they do!!!

i've been playing with underglaze because i was like ohhhh i love the look of carving designs into underglaze...and i bought some fun colors when i went to The City a few weekends ago...so i have this mug that needs its first fire, i also have some fun eye-motif ones in the works at the moment! i also added some underglaze color to my dragon carving from last week.

finally this bowl already had its first fire but i painted underglaze on over white to try and get a watercolor-type effect? i put lilypads on the inside and painted koi on the outside (no picture of that yet)

misc not a whole lot else! since my summertime trials and tribulations i have unfortunately become the kind of person who gets tummy issues when my stress levels get too high. i have always become a basket case in the ~24 hours before i have to travel somewhere so that's been less than fun but i'm figuring it out. also trying to switch psychiatrists right now is sooooo fucking aggravating i will not get into it but ughhhhhh.

[roe-sesandthorns]

am I the only one who has a weird resistance to cql or a distaste for it despite loving other live action (like guardian) / donghua (mdzs/tgcf) adaptations?? 

is it something about mxtx works that don’t translate well into live action adaptations because of how tied in the plot + character motivations and the romance is? does this bode ill for other mxtx live action adaptations?? or am I just being a whiny lil baby and should rewatch cql with a more open mind? 

(i’d rather re-watch/hear the audio drama tbh or the donghua despite how much I loved the performances of the entire cast in the live action) 

[hishoukoku]

Tag Game

Rules: Tag nine people you want to get to know better. Tagged by the lovely @oddishblossom. Thank you very much 💖

Favorite color(s): red / I like purple a lot too.

Currently reading: Fanfic? No but I wanna start 2ha I'm just not in that headspace and all I wanna do is re-read mdzs, tgcf or svsss all over again XD

Last song: Billie Eilish - You should see me in a crown (my friend got me obsessed with this particular song fsr)

Last series: The last I watched was CQL way back when I discovered it. Currently: MDZS donghua.

Last movie: Does the Demon Slayer anime movie count? I haven't sat down to watch a new movie in a long time. But I wanted to rewatch this one since s2 is coming very soon.

Sweet, Savory, or Spicy: Spicy usually, but it's hard to pick, depends on the food <3

Currently working on: My XueXiao wip, my WangXian wip, I also have XueYao one but it's mostly ideas + a few GIFs for older episodes since I've started posting those as I want everyone to remember those gorgeous scenes from past seasons hehe <3

Tagging (only if you want to! feel free to ignore you don't wanna) @dual-domination @novas-grimoire @captain-stab-a-hoe @hualianaddict @certified-bi-fangirl-disaster @luna0713hunter @punk-weiwuxian @my-surname-is-jin @10holmes

I could only tag 9 so I'm sorry if I didn't tag you, but as usual: +anyone else who sees this and would like to do it too.

[hunxi-after-hours]

i REALLY wanna check out thousand autumns after watching you talk about it ;; do you recommend I start with the novel or with the donghua? I've heard the novel tl isn't complete and I've also heard the donghua subs are atrocious — might you know where I should start?

thanks for your help!

(and once I finish I'm going to camp in your posts about it hehe)

ahaha I think I am bringing people to 《千秋》 simply by my inability to shut up about it

I've heard rumors that someone picked up the translation for the novel, so that might depart un-translated purgatory sometime soon! I'm working on re-subbing the donghua, but that's going to take a hot sec

as for which one to start with... it depends on you, I think! the donghua got me hooked by the first few episodes, and since it was still airing, I went and read the entire novel before we even got halfway through the season. my main word of caution with the novel is that it is much more... hm, thematically extreme? I had to consciously decide to trust the author a great deal for the first fifty or so chapters because Shen Qiao gets put through the goddamn wringer

which is to say: if you would like to get hooked into the narrative, I think start with the donghua. if you're here for a long time and not necessarily a good time (again, the first fifty chapters! oof) that will eventually turn out to be a good time (next eighty chapters--heck YEAH), I'd recommend going with the novel. both are very good though, so I don't think you could go wrong with either

[cruelsister-moved]

Omg I thought I was the only one who thought MDZS is a better written story. Like the major criticism that I have seen (that's not sex scenes) is the structure of the story and side characters, that a linear story like that in CQL would have been better and it should have had more focus on the side characters but I vehemently disagree. MDZS is about defying expectations and re evaluating the narrative, the purpose of the past in MDZS is to re- contextualise the present, every new information presented makes us rethink our stance, there is a reason that the story starts with declaring Wei Wuxian as the villain. Plus withholding information is essential for a mystery like?.

MDZS is also very character driven story with the major focus on Wei Wuxian, I don't think focusing excessively on side characters just for the sake of it achieves anything especially if it doesn't add anything to the plot, narrative or themes.

As far as TGCF goes I love it and I think it is MXTX’s most ambitious work. I think she went crazy with the worldbuilding but it requires so much editing and polishing to do considering TGCF as it exists now isn't even the final version (mxtx said she would heavily edit it and some things might be changed but she hasn't been active since 2 years). I think it's expansive world can be entertaining but also a drag.

I feel like that the way MDZS and TGCF are written are also affected by the the publishing site(JJWXC). MDZS is definitely the most experimental of the two and comparatively short . MXTX had complete control of her work because it hadn't reach such widespread popularity back then. Compare this to TGCF which is pay-by-chapter right from the start because mxtx's work is hot shit right now, JJWXC wanted to bank on the length of TGCF and mxtx was definitely encouraged to write longer. I am just parroting what the Chinese fandom has to say about this but also I absolutely agree

yeah ummm the cql style linear story was super boring n hard for me to watch and the similar tgcf thing with huge chunks was hard to read like i guess it can be hard to follow idk but i have adhd so my style is just preferring shorter bites i wouldn't want to go through the whole sunshot campaign and meng yao arc and shit all at once and like u said the way the past is constantly recontextualised.... like in the audio drama finding out abt the cave scene right at the end n seeing wwxs actions and lwjs reactions in a whole new way at the same time as wwx himself for example is sooo good.... like tgcf doesn't try to withhold information in the same way really like it's kind of obvious that this guy is san lang and this guy is san lang and this guy is also san lang <3 which I think is fine but then those scenes have no mystery to drive them so they could've been way shorter!

also yeah i think tgcf is very ambitious and to be fair when I try to think about what could be edited out i start to see how each part is useful to the plot or the characters BUT that's what an editor is for because there is just a lot going on and it could use some quality control and focus (to be fair i reckon the donghua will do a lot of editing to some extent bc they are going to have to). also it frustrates me at times that all that world building sets up a LOT of things to explore and then doesn't necessarily explore all of them so again it could use an edit like don't introduce a theme if u aren't going to explore it -_- it is good for fans though in how it offers a lot for fans to explore themselves and other stuff like the whole debacle with babyified hua cheng feels a lot like fanservice and an unnecessary tangent but at the same time like ppl love drawing fanart of it lol.

also that's a point i hadnr thought about at all like if tgcf was pay by chapter then... yep. like I think it could do with a serious bit of editing to the point it sometimes feels much more amateurish than mdzs ever does, but why would u want to edit it down if ur being paid per chapter. -_-

[ouyangzizhensdad]

i like ur meta, even if ure not chinese or even asian but i dont get ur hate for untamed... mdzs has 4 adaptations and all of them are very nicely done, even untamed with the way they could have ruined it, they kept the basic story the same. i also dont get untamed is queerbaiting, when the Asian and Chinese fans dont think that. the show fans like to pretend that the novel is homophobic doesnt mean we should hate the media that helped alot of ppl. untamed is mainstream media abt a gay couple

Hi anon, 

I want to preface this by repeating (once more) that I do not hate CQL. I am critical of it as a tv series (like, let’s be real, it’s a cheaply-produced idol drama and, uh, it shows) and to me, as an adaptation, it failed to translate the elements and nuances of the novel that I found made MDZS special and enjoyable (that same thing can be said for the donghua, for instance, which does not capture for me what I liked of the novel)--that being said, I have no problem with people enjoying the show and thinking it is a good adaptation. At the end of the day my intent, through my meta, is to provide perspectives that people may have not considered, so that people can continue to think more critically about the art of storytelling, the process of adapting a property, and media in general (see e.g. here). I think learning to notice the faults or the limitations of the things we love is a very productive thing, but that’s not necessarily what everyone wants out of their fandom experience and that’s fine.

I think a lot of “hate” for CQL is not so much for the series itself but for what the CQL fandom, particularly the ones that came after the show became more known to people who had never consumed CN media prior, has meant for the novel fandom. And to me, unfortunately, it slowly became impossible to detangle CQL from those annoyances--to view CQL without thinking about all the dumb discourses or the ways that it became almost impossible to find fan content for the novel that was not influenced by CQL. And that’s not the show’s fault! But that’s just how it is 🤷‍♂️. Sometimes fandom ruins stuff for people. 

Regarding the “queerbaiting” thing, it’s complicated and I’ve talked about it elsewhere (here, here, here, here, here and here). But basically, CQL is not canonically a gay romance and that’s just a fact. It literally could not include inside the text of the series a gay romance because of censorship. CQL is romantically-coded, and the subtext might be enough that some viewers accept that the story depicted is a romance. It is also important to remember the political economic context of the production of CQL: that is, it is an cheaply-made adaptation of a danmei novel whose financial success hinged on getting the original fanbase, ie the danmei readers who loved the novel, to buy into and invest into this censored adaptation. The novel fans may also have contributed enormously through their engagement during the pre-production and production phases to ensure the show did not include a straight romance (re: the WQ love interest conspiracy) and inserted a lot of romantic-coding, since they were vocal about the fact that they would not watch the show if it strayed too far from Wangxian’s relationship. And these same fans are the ones that are at the core of CQL’s success and virality. 

[vespertineflora]

i mostly agree w/ u re: the sex scenes, although for me personally they were a bit of a nasty shock bc i totally wasnt expecting them. i don't have a problem with bdsm/kink at all (i enjoy it when its done right) but those scenes felt so...out of place? and like. badly written ig? idk its bizarre to me that lwj wouldnt be anything but extremely cautious and gentle, even if he does have kinks and Intense Desires uwu.

oh yeah, that’s totally fair! going into it, I didn’t know the exact content of the scenes, except to know that they were intense scenes that i saw a lot of snickering about. knowing my own limits, and having my own expectations in general about BL in novels, i decided to dive in without looking up any details, and i was pretty shocked the first time i read it too.

(which is why i have no problem with anyone that wants content warnings or wants to avoid reading those chapters altogether! it’s intense subject matter and mtxtx is not a shy writer!)

as for the writing in general…. i mean, I’m not going to go out of my way to defend it, though without being able to read the original chinese, i don’t personally think it’s fair to make any sweeping statements about it. and just in general i’ve read far worse sex scenes

after watching the donghua and the drama first, i was pretty surprised by how rough lwj was while reading the novel!  i’ve read all the relevant chapters a number of times by this point, and my basic take away from lwj’s general roughness is a combo of two things: 1) lwj is really strong. like Ridiculously Strong. Superhuman Strong, honestly. And he CAN be gentle (and often is!!!) because he has such a HIGH level of control, until…… 2) wwx teases the fuck out of him because he Likes it when lwj loses control with him. in the bathtub scene he says “you don’t know this, but i like it when you’re angry” or something, because almost everything he does in relation to lwj is to get a reaction out of him.

so for lwj, it’s not a matter of not being gentle with wwx, because he frequently is. it’s more a matter of feeding into his desire to spoil wwx and give wwx what HE wants, which in this case is for lwj to let go of his control with him.

as for specifically the first incense burner dream in the library? while, again, there are issues, there are a lot of little things i like about the scene, and particularly lwj’s reaction to it. first, context: this happens AFTER wwx spends their first time together telling lwj that he should have taken advantage of him when they were teenagers, possibly giving lwj’s subconscious the idea for that dream in the first place??? there’s no canon on when lwj first had that dream after all, so who knows

but what i do like about that scene is that lwj immediately recognizes where they are and Does Not want to go in. He’s described as anxious and stiff as the scene starts, and tries to get up and make them leave before anything dramatic happens–he clearly doesn’t like that this is the sort of fantasy he’s had, and he doesn’t want his husband to see it either.

but of course, wwx is into it. like REALLY into it, and completely reassures lwj that it’s okay for him to have fantasies like this! because it’s really not a fantasy about hurting wwx, so much as it’s a fantasy about lwj letting himself lose control after a lifetime of absolutely rigorous restriction and actually letting himself act on what he wants

whoops! i know you didn’t ask for a novel, but that’s the reasoning that stuck out to me for why lwj behaves the way he does in their sex scenes and why it does ultimately give context for his character.  but again, for sure, jumping from the drama to the novel can be quite the shock if you don’t know what to expect!

[radishsizhui]

For the untamed/mdzs ask game- 1, 7, 13, 27, 45, 61 :)

God this took me forever to answer but I am here lol

1. Favorite Character

I have such a hard time with this because Sizhui and Jiang Cheng are constantly fighting for first place in my list of favorites so I will give you my top five: 1. Lan Sizhui 2. Jiang Cheng 3. Lan Xichen 4. Lan Wangji 5. Wei Wuxian

7. Which Adaptations Have You Consumed

All of them except some parts of MDZS Q and the most recent chapters of the Manhua. I just haven’t finished the whole MDZS Q lol I have like 10 episodes left. I have read the English translation of the book (by Rebel Scanlations) including all the extras. If I could read literally any Chinese I would try to read the original version but alas I am White™.  I have seen the donghua 3 times and CQL twice all the way but like 4 if you count re-watching certain episodes. I have read the Manhua but I am not as up to date because, translation again and also I lost motivation for it and started reading TGCF....

13. Fanciest Character Design

I think my opinion on this varies depending on which adaptation you are talking about? If we are talking CQL Nie Mingjue has the most immaculate and intense costumes and character design. In Donghua/Manhua I’m going to say literally any of the Jins but also WWX gets some really detailed and spicy outfits so...

27.Character Design That Is Just “Meh”

Wen Chao and Wen Qing. Like I feel like for how much personality they gave them (both donghua and CQL) they could have been MORE. Like Wen Chao should be more extra (the sleeves in cql did help but like I think he needed some gold and like dragon print because of the cultural connotations of that as well as like how self important he is). As far as Wen Qing goes I feel like she should have more sometimes? Like this is specifically in relation to pre Sunshot Campaign. I know people love Wen Qing (and so do I) but her costumes early on just did not have the best vibes (Wen Ning’s Qishan robes on the other hand...)

Another pet peeve of mine is Jiang Cheng’s early robes not being Yunmeng purple but there are actually character reasons for that so I let it slide and that Sizhui and Jingyi’s forhead ribbons don’t have the silver cloud piece because they are fullblood (or full adopted) Lan CLAN members not just disciples and Sizhui at least is recognized as a member of the main family as LWJ’s son???

45. Your Instrument Of Choice In A Fight?

Liebing.

Mainly because pretty, but also because it would be less uncomfortable than holding a dizi, easier to learn than a qin.

61. Best Weapon

Zidian no question. I just love a sparkly, electric, purple, whip. It’s literally the coolest shit ever. IT TURNS INTO A RING AND THEN A WHIP LIKE !!!!!!

[starberry-cupcake]

Okay, but one thing that really bugs me about the untamed is that, several times, the characters are shown eating peanuts. Peanuts originally came from Uruguay and only were introduced to Eurasia after the conquest of the Americas in the 1600s. The conquest of the Americas only possible bc the Spanish had gunpowder, which was invented in China, but in the untamed they clearly don't have gunpowder. Was there an alternate 'discovery'? This has literally bugged me since the first ep I need ANSWERS

This is going to be a longer answer than it should, but you opened a lot of doors. Take into consideration that I’m not proficient in many things regarding this genre and I’m just using the basis of the things I have read.  

First of all, I remember them eating loquats during the Caiyi Town conundrum (in the novel it’s also there) and lotus seeds very frequently, I don’t remember peanuts being mentioned by name, unless a) they were used for filming but not mentioned by name, b) they’re in the drama but not in the other versions and I can’t remember enough to tell. 

In any case, I think that we need to delve a little bit in xianxia as a genre for two of the things you mention in your ask, the historical divergence and the use of gunpowder. 

I’m not an expert on the xianxia genre at large, I’ve just skimmed the surface of it, but I believe that it works somewhat similarly to European Steampunk or Latin American’s Alternate History, in the sense that it derives from historical elements via the introduction of an alternate path (in xianxia’s case, introducing a fantasy landscape that is influenced by mythology, tradition, religion, philosophy, etc). 

In that regard, it wouldn’t be unheard of if there was an “alternate discovery” if they wanted to introduce them. If legitimately Scott Westerfeld can change the events of WWI to have a plot in Leviathan or, less legitimately, R*wling can do what she did with all that P*ttermore and US magic mess, I figure a version of MDZS can have peanuts. It’s not as if it was a historical drama, is what I mean, it’s not meant to be a historical representation of China but a fantasy representation using traditional elements and mythology. 

I don’t remember the peanuts specifically to be able to tell you if it’s a MDZS thing or an Untamed/CQL thing, so far in the novel I haven’t come across them that I can remember (and there’s also translation to take into account there), and I don’t remember if it was in the donghua, so maybe it’s an Untamed thing they did for filming, if you say they were there. 

If it was indeed a historically divergent plot point (which I doubt if it’s not present in the source material, but let’s say it was, for the sake of this discussion) it could be interesting to know how they got them, but considering that they fly on swords, I wouldn’t put it past them to have been able to travel in other mediums that aren’t the ones of real history. Maybe the Tortoise of Slaughter imported peanuts for the first time in this world, who knows. 

I’ve read threads of people discussing the use or non use of gunpowder and modern weapons in xianxia, and why it’s not preferred. Some people have had good hot takes, others have had not very good ones, but there are, in general, a lot of links between the preference of traditional weapons due to the cultural, mythological, traditional, philosophical and religious background of xianxia as a genre. 

I feel like, added to that, novels like MDZS focus on how the cultivation world adheres to a path of self-improvement in which you train your core to be a better cultivator, which is why they frowned upon Wei Wuxian’s path. There are a lot of instances in which Wei Wuxian, being the narrative perspective of the novel, talks about how his methods were frowned upon because of them being “shortcuts” into cultivation power, but later they were somewhat adopted for certain things. There’s a reason why Wei Wuxian needs to develop this path, so the novel deals with that, but in a world with these rules, in which talismans and flags and objects like the ones Wei Wuxian creates are considered “shortcuts” and frowned upon, I think I can adhere to some of those hot takes on why modern weaponry is rarely used in xianxia or seen as less desired for a plot, considering the ideology on training. 

There is, however, the use of flares, which in the novel they’re referred to as “signals” (in translation), and in the donghua they appear as light flares that look kinda firework-ish, and that opens to a lot of questions about gunpowder that I don’t think I can answer right now, maybe the novel will enlighten me later. Because in the donghua, the fireworks-ish design can allow the animators to make the signals look like the symbol of the clan requesting for help, so that’s a very visual thing that the novel, so far, hasn’t needed to describe, but I’ll see what happens later on as they keep using them. Maybe the signals are common in xianxia and I’m the one who doesn’t know how they work. 

In any case, this is to say that the presence or non presence of modern weaponry and explicit gunpowder does not indicate in xianxia some kind of “historical time frame” but an author’s preference or a genre’s preference of where to lie the line in types of combat and which weaponry and forms of training to use, based on the traditional elements they uphold. It wouldn’t be completely accurate to try to place a story in a real life historical time period due to their use or non use of modern weaponry or gunpowder at large, in this case. 

I’ll keep an eye out for those peanuts though, maybe in a re-watch after I finish the novel I can catch them and compare more accurately. Maybe it was just a filming thing, but it opens interesting paths of discussion. 

[donghuanewbsunite]

Glossary

This is just a short glossary of words and terms you might run into while watching donghua or reading web novels and manhua. Keep in mind I’m only a casual fan and don’t know chinese myself. This is just the basic of the basics that I’ve picked up from my time reading novels, manhua, and watching donghua.

!!This glossary is under construction!!

General:

Donghua - Chinese animation

Manhua - Chinese comics

Gege / Ge - Affectionate term for ‘elder brother’

Xiong / Xiong-zhang - Respectful term for ‘elder brother’

Jiejie / Jie - Affectionate term for ‘elder sister’

Didi / Di - Affectionate term for ‘younger brother’

Meimei / mei - Affectionate term for ‘younger sister’

Er - Affectionate suffix sometimes given to children or close friends

Salute – When a character in a Chinese novel salutes the author usually means they're putting their fist in their palm rather than a straight hand to their forehead. Depending on if you're reading a modern or martial arts novel, the palm will either be curled over the fist or set straight out.

Slang:

Coughing blood – There are two meanings to this saying. 1)An expression used to show how angry or emotionally distressed a character is. 2) The character is literally coughing up blood to signify internal injuries. You can generally tell which is which based off of the context of the situation.

Fuck your mom – A phrase that essentially means 'fuck you'. The reasons this is used is to prevent 'fuck' from being censored [1]

Your sister – Short for 'I fuck your sister'. It has essentially the same meaning as 'fuck you' [1]

Gnawing on melon seeds – Watching a good show [2]

Papapa – The sound of skin slapping... because... y'know... 👀

Didn't know whether they should laugh or cry – An expression to show conflicting emotions

Pretend to be a pig to eat the tiger – To hide one's real strength in order to mount a sneak attack

Face – When face is mentioned, other than meaning your actual face, authors actually referring to a characters reputation, dignity, pride, and shame. [3]

When a character thickens their face or has a thick face it means they're getting ready to or are acting shameless.

When a character is humiliated, ashamed, or embarrassed, or doing something inappropriate we say this person is losing face, meaning something like losing dignity. [3]

If you do something in order to not impair someone's fame, we say you are saving face for him, meaning maintaining somebody's dignity/pride.

Face slapping – When someone is humiliated. A face slapping moment is typically reserved for villians or unlikable characters to experience

Drinking vinegar – Used to describe a jealous character

Let's compare notes – Characters in more action based novels may use this term to ask for a friendly match with someone

Tears streamed down his face – Used to either show distress of happiness

To have eyes, but fail to recognize Mt. Tai – To be ignorant or arrogant; to fail to recognize someone or something of great status [4]

The time it takes an incense stick to burn – A poetic way of referring to a short timespan. Depending on the author, generally either 5 minutes or 30 minutes [4].

Gnashing Teeth – Displaying extreme anger or frustration [4]

Sucking in a breath of cold air – A reaction caused by shock or surprise [4]

With a flick of a sleeve – A flourish of a long sleeve; a gesture often done in a moment of passion or simply to add emphasis to a statement [4]

The Seven Orifices / The Seven Apertures – The seven apertures of the human head (2 eyes, 2 ears, 2 nostrils, 1 mouth) [4]

Netizen – Users of the internet

Keyboard 'Hero' – Basically a troll

White Lotus – An innocent, cute, and kind character

Jade-like – Common descriptor for anything refined/elegant/beautiful; an unblemished, creamy white color when referring to skin/women [4]

A frog in a well – To be ignorant/narrow-minded; to have a myopic perspective [4]

Black Belly – Two-faced; outwardly king but inwardly evil or manipulative [4]

A teacher for a day, a father for life – A student should revere and respect someone who was willing to mentor them, even if they could only teach for a short period of time... Similarly, a teacher should nurture and cherish their students as they would their own children. [4]

Genres:

YY (YiYin / 意淫) Novel – YY novels are your typical Chinese webnovels filled with tropes like arrogant young masters who don't recognize Mt. Tai, old grandpa teacher, alchemy, auctions, tournaments, faceslapping, OP MC, and so on. You can consider YY novels as fast food. They're very fun/delicious and addicting, but not exactly quality stuff [5]. The term was first used as a joke as it is is similar to another word meaning masturbate (手淫), but eventually it just stuck because people couldn't find a better way to describe the genre [6]. Overall the word basically means 'mental masturbation'.

Wuxia - Literally means “Martial Heroes”. Fictional stories about regular humans who can achieve supernatural fighting ability through Chinese martial arts training and internal energy cultivation. Themes of chivalry, tragedy, revenge & romance are common. [7]

Xianxia - Literally means “Immortal Heroes”. Fictional stories featuring magic, demons, ghosts, immortals, and a great deal of Chinese folklore/mythology. Protagonists (usually) attempt to cultivate to Immortality, seeking eternal life and the pinnacle of strength. Heavily inspired by Daoism. [7]

Xuanhuan – Literally means 'Mysterious Fantasy'. A broad genre of fictional stories which remixes Chinese folklore / mythology with foreign elements and settings. [7]

[Xuanhuan and Xianxia novels may sometimes seem similar on the surface. Look for the presence of Daoist elements (the Dao, Tin and Yang, Immortals, ect...) in the novel to easily distinguish the two – if they aren't present, then it's probably a Xuanhuan novel.]

Kehuan – Science fiction

Qihuan – Magical fiction, usually refers to novels that are set in a western culture background. It usually has kings, dragons, knights, magic, ect... [6]

Sites:

(Sometimes you'll see characters talking about or using apps or sites so I thought's I'd also list them)

QQ Chat – An instant messaging and multimedia service provided by Tencent.

Baidu – Much like Google, Baidu is the name of a company, but when most people talk about it they are actually talking about the search engine and other internet related services it provides.

Lofter – A social media site similar to Tumblr.

Weibo – A social media site similar to Twitter and Facebook.

WeChat – A social media, messaging, and mobile payment app developed by Tencent.

Bilibili – A video sharing website similar to YouTube. It also host comics and games.

JJWXC (JinJiang) - 

Fantasy and Historic Terms:

Gongzi - A honorific used when addressing noble sons

Shixiong - Older disciple brother

Shijie - Older disciple sister

Shidi - Younger disciple brother

Shimei - Younger disciple sister

Laoshi - Teacher

Shizun / Shifu - Teacher/Master

Shishu - Elder martial uncle (Disciples call other male masters ‘uncle’)

Shibo - Younger martial uncle (Same as above)

Qi – The natural energy that exist in all things

Sources:

[1] https://re-library.com/glossary-of-common-chinese-slangs-gaming-and-acgn-terms/

[2] https://forum.novelupdates.com/threads/chinese-slang-words.49990/

[3] https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/thick-skinned-cheeky.3199240/

[4] https://www.wuxiaworld.com/page/chinese-idiom-glossary

[5] http://novelfull.com/the-kings-avatar/chapter-983-happys-fanclub.html

[6] https://www.reddit.com/r/LightNovels/comments/36q51h/as_a_chinese_id_like_to_talk_about_those_chinese/

[7] https://immortalmountain.wordpress.com/glossary/wuxia-xianxia-xuanhuan-terms/

[imaginaryelle]

@tonyglowheart​, tumblr is still not letting my do replies in a logical way, so hopefully you’ll get this notification. Thanks so much for engaging with all my questions!

@tonyglowheart replied:

so tbh my understanding comes mostly from the show; I've got the audio drama and donghua on my list, and one of the novel TL's at some point - but not quite there. So my take might be more biased towards the show, if there's any difference in how it's portrayed there vs in other adaptations.

I know it's mentioned somewhere that the scions of the major families go through some kind of ritual or cleansing to prevent them from coming back as fierce corpses; not sure exactly how the Nies fit into that, or if bc of their differing origins/way of cultivating they do something else.

Ah! yes, I remember this now. It’s when Jiang Cheng is talking about wanting to die so he can come back and have vengeance (after he’s captured and hit with the discipline whip and has his golden core taken). And yeah, because of the butcher-style cultivation this happens less/not at all for the Nie clan. I’m honestly not sure what they do, it seems implied that they just … die young. Over and over. And have their special burial system. I think from that I will conclude that cultivation, whether it’s the inherent fighting involved in the profession/life path or something else, might indeed lead to a higher chance of a fierce corpse. And go on with that idea until I find a contradiction.

of the spells you named, 4 of them are Lan sect spells and are generally shown as guqin-based (although it seems like other instruments can play it). Tbh I think chord assassination and sound of vanquish might be the same thing, just different translations? my understanding of the talismans thing is the wide usage seems unique to WWX. I feel like in other novels this isn't the case, but in CQL that does seem to be the case

we're... kind of only showcased the Lan Sect technique and WWX's, but I kiiind of assume that the "standard orthodoxy" within MDZS/CQL is sword-based routes. I think MXTX doesn't really explore the cultivation side as much in MDZS, compared to some others?

in general, my understanding of mo'dao vs other cultivation is that mo'dao is harnessing resentment - an external energy - and channeling it, and the ability to channel it depends a lot on force of will, like you said. But I think there's also an idea that if just any rando tried it, they'd be overwhelmed by the resentful energy and corrupted by it and maybe consumed by it instead of being able to channel it? I think other means of cultivation probably provide a better  base for ppl to practice mo'dao with...

You’re probably right on Sound of Vanquish and Chord Assassination, and yes, as I’ve watched more of the show I agree that the sword technique seems to be fairly standard/orthodox. It makes sense for the plot that we get showcased the Lan sect things, but I find it... interesting, I guess, that we don’t really learn, say, what’s special about the Yunmeng Jiang sect style, beyond the existence of Zidian. The Jin sect have spirit bells or something, and the Nie have their cleavers, but I think that’s most of what we get. I really like Wei Wuxian’s talisman usage, especially in the show—it seems so adaptable where sword techniques are relatively rigid. I know there’s at least one instance of Lan Wangji using one, but it’s still implied WWX was the one who made it. I just wonder where he learned it now. If his parents died when he was 4 and he hardly remembers them, but Jiang Cheng and Yanli don’t use this sort of spell at all … where did he get it? Is it a level of cultivation thing, or willpower again? I do definitely get the impression from the show especially that music as spells is pretty highly advanced. We see very few people use it, even though it’s extremely effective and pretty flexible. So maybe the talismans are a bit like that too, or, looking at the way the canon material treats gender and class roles and such, maybe they’re considered less “manly” or even just less “proper” in general. Like they’re just toys, but WWX makes toys do actual work. That would be very in-character for him. (Honestly, I would love to see Nie Huaisang invent or use a fan style of cultivation. That should exist.)

The “anyone non-cultivator would be overwhelmed by the resentment” is an interesting point. The show definitely seems to lean toward that with the way the whole Yin Iron plot is set up. Hmmm, I will want to ponder that more ...

re: burial vs cremation.. don't quote me on this since I'm hazy myself, but I believe there are traditional beliefs - esp in Ancient times? - surrounding being buried with your corpse intact and how that affects your ability to have peace in the afterlife? I was to say this ties into other traditional ideas I see in period pieces, like the cutting of hair thing. But I think we do see this reflected in MDZS/CQL - where the sects called for the Wens to be cremated/ground to ashes, and how NMJ isn't able to rest because his corpse was scattered and I want to say you also see this belief reflected in how they talk about other things, like I sort of have an impression of them talking abt WWX dying and how he didn't even leave a complete corpse or something? I think modern beliefs are different, but I think in trad settings there's very much the idea of having/being able to leave a complete corpse being important.

Having a complete corpse is brought up a few times, true. I’d forgotten about that beyond NMJ’s situation. I think the thing with WWX was that there was speculation that not only was his body destroyed and scattered, but also pieces of his soul. And later in the Yi city arc we see other souls that are damaged/not complete, but possibly they can be mended? With enough time and good energy. But the destruction of a soul into pieces was directly linked to never reincarnating in the novel, so maybe it’s all an extension of that? In which case Jiang Cheng’s trauma over his parents’ deaths gets even worse, oh no.