#I say this even as someone who doesn’t hate TCW

[the-far-bright-center]

Fandom stop using nonsense from TCW as a gotcha re: Prequels characters for once. Not everybody views that show as canon. It’s perfectly legitimate to have interpretations of the Prequels and Original Trilogy as a standalone story, especially since they were created to function in that exact manner. TCW is superfluous and often completely OOC for all saga characters involved. Nothing compels anyone to view it as legitimate canon, and honestly my intelligence feels insulted whenever I see people using that series as some kind of ‘proof’ for their negative views, particularly of Anakin and Padme’s characters and relationship, but also just in general.

Like, we’re talking about an animated tv series that was made in an entirely different (often totally slapstick and unserious) style and tone than the PT x OT films. It is also overtly moralising in patronising ways and tends to shove characters in contrived situations just to make a condescending and captain-obvious meta commentary on the main saga.

If I wanted supplementary material that is more in line with the PT films, there are a number of novelizations, books, and comics from that era to choose from. And Lucas’ involvement in TCW doesn’t mean it’s obligate canon. In the pre-Disney era, ‘canon’ was tiered and only the PT x OT films were the final word. TCW is a ‘what if’/missing moment fanfic and/or self-aware commentary at best. And no, Disney doesn’t get the last word on what constitutes canon either. No matter how hard they push their ‘new canon’ on everyone.

The Skywalker saga was completed with the release of Revenge of the Sith in 2005.

It would be nice if people stopped acting as though self-contained, fully completed stories don’t exist just because some soulless franchise decided to pretend otherwise in order to make maxim profits.

[jessie-j17]

Post I made about them that I want to talk about!

I would have put this all in the caption, but some irls follow me and I didn’t want to look like a lunatic..

So here’s me being a lunatic here instead!

(This was written in what little free time I have over the course of like idk 4 days so bear with me..I’m sorry if its all over the place)

“My baby here on earth, showed me what my heart was worth”

Hunter loves Omega with all he is, we know this. We saw it when they first met eachother, how gentle he was with her and how eager he was to go back to Kamino to get her, even if they said they’d never go back. He was gentle with her before he learned she was a clone, and once he did, we can FEEL the switch. Everything Hunter went through from s1 on going to s3 is almost always for Omega, he loves her in every way he can AND I LOVE IT SO MUCH!!! We all know he wants nothing more then to settle down, to be normal people with him and his squad, he even says it’s what Omega needs, because she never got a childhood, he said this when they were with Gungi as well. Omega changed his view on what’s going on around him, he now has a kid in his squad who is most definitely 100% his daughter

“So when it comes to be my turn, could you shine it down here for her”

He knows he’s getting older, we can see his age in the difference of how he looks in TCW s7 and now, it’s a pretty big difference, the depression and stress isn’t really helping his case either… but he knows he won’t be there to see her grow up, and he won’t be able to protect her forever and it kills me to think about. His helmet being on the poster is also terrifying, I’m scared we’re going to have a Boba||Omega parallel, when boba is holding his fathers helmet, and oh am I praying that isn’t the case. I hope they all get what they want and live happily ever after on Pabu, but of course the trailer ruins my playground dreams…

“Nothing in the world belongs to me” / “nothing in the world is mine for free” “but my love…”

THESE LINES (this is probably where the insanity takes over, and nothing I say makes sense)

I relate these to Hunter SO much… After order 66, after everything went down, he has nothing to follow. In TCW, Hunter is very quiet and in the back when he needs to be, he’s not consistently talking and he’s just overall very observant, except when they’re fighting obviously. In the Republic, there was a system he could follow, rules he had to abide by(Rules he knew how to break when needed) but now that it’s all gone, he has nothing, AND he lost Crosshair, who was like his second opinion on his orders. Not to mention his little brother, and the guilt of leaving him behind. Hunter doesn’t know what to do, and over the seasons he’s getting more and more desperate. Tech dying is another example of this, that wasn’t something he could control, and he blames himself because it was his order that put Tech on the rails, and he physically helped him up there. So he has little control over his, steady dwindling, squad, but he has Omega. Omega is like an anchor for him I think, something he still can keep safe, or try to. She’s just a little girl, but again, she doesn’t get to be, and he wants nothing more for her to get that.

We can imagine how bad it was while Omega was gone, but now that she’s back, I feel it just got more confusing. Hunter is still throwing himself at danger to get intel that they have no conformation of, they’re blindly trusting someone they hate, but he’s willing to do what he has to. His love for Omega and the want for safety of his squad is what’s driving him, maybe a little too much. He is determined, and he is doing what he can, but will it be good enough is my question.

We know nothing they do against the empire works, but, as he said, “there’s still hope for us yet.” They still have that chance of a happy ending we so desperately crave, and we have our expectations high for the last episode being called “the Calvary has arrived” (which I love by the way, first appearance and last ep(hopefully not last appearance..))

I have so much more to say but I’ve been adding to this like every day for so long it’s just becoming yap

[gffa]

what do you think would have happened if the jedi had found out anakin was married pre-rots? would he be forced to leave/choose one over the other? are there any circumstances, even one where he was a completely different person, under which anakin would be able to marry padme and remain a member of the order, and if so, what would the consequences of that be (i.e. what would it look like)?

It's such an interesting question because we really know so little about the Jedi worldbuilding, the only two things I can really even think of that talk about it are : - Padme’s incredibly off-hand mention of how Anakin would be expelled if the Jedi found out about their baby.  What’s the context of this, where did she learn this?  Is Anakin the one who told her?  Because I have some Doubts about Anakin’s reliability on these things, considering that he also has shown an unwillingness to accept Jedi philosophy, according to Lucas.  Anakin, who thinks the Council hate him, may be thinking in extremes and wouldn’t even consider that they’d try working with him. - George Lucas gave a talk at Celebration one year and the subject of Jedi giving up marriage was talked about, where it ties into their willingness to be selfless, to be willing to give up everything (because life is impermanent and transient) when the time comes.  They love people, but they cannot hold onto them--and I think the way he’s framing it is that marriage should be selfish, if you’re going to make that commitment. But he doesn’t say anything about Jedi being expelled for it, just that it’s something they give up.  And given how we see Anakin actually breaking a ton of rules or getting into trouble in TCW and never, not once getting in any significant trouble for it, I think the Jedi would very much be willing to sit down and talk about this. For me, I think, yes, he would be asked to choose and, if he refused to, that’s a huge sign that he’s unwilling to follow the Jedi way of selflessness and a willingness to accept their duty to the galaxy, rather than personal concerns, that he could very well get someone killed because, in a crucial moment, he would choose his own feelings over his duty.  The only other time Anakin is threatened with expulsion is in exactly that kind of context--when he was willing to put his fear for Padme above his duty to help end the war before it even started, when he was willing to jump out of that plane on Geonosis rather than go face Dooku, it showed that he was tempted to put all those lives at risk for his own feelings.�� Even Obi-Wan points out:  What would Padme do?  She would do her duty, Anakin grudgingly admits.  Because, in Star Wars, that duty is important.  Because, in Star Wars, that’s how the narrative of the story works.  That’s the themes we’re working with here. Is there any universe in which he could remain married and stay a Jedi?  I did once read a fic where Anakin was given the option to remain a Jedi, but he would never achieve the rank of Master, he would never be promoted beyond Knight, and iirc that he would never be given certain types of missions and I liked that fic a lot, it really worked for me.  I think he’d have to be willing to accept that and I’m not sure if he would, but without Palpatine’s influence, in a universe where Anakin was allowed to actually spiritually grow without Palpatine constantly urging him to give in to his worst impulses, he might not like it when he first agrees to it, but I could see him growing to find peace with it. But I can also see a world where, because Anakin is Anakin, he’ll never be able to find balance between these two marriages of his, one to Padme and one to the Jedi, that it only feeds his fears and his greed for the galaxy to bend to his will. But I like the idea that the Jedi love Anakin enough that they would be willing to find a compromise, one that keeps him from getting people hurt because he can’t achieve the balance necessary for the responsibility they’re given, but that he can remain a Jedi and maybe teach saber classes or engineering classes or something.  Jedi love teaching and while I don’t think Anakin has the patience for the toddlers of the creche, I can see him having a good time with a bunch of little gear-heads who love getting their faces stuck inside a droid just as much as he does.

[stairset]

Honestly I think people really over-exaggerate Anakin and Mace’s relationship, like Mace says he doesn’t trust Anakin ONCE and he was specifically saying he didn’t think they could trust Anakin to spy on Palpatine and considering Palpatine is literally Space Hitler and has spent years secretly grooming Anakin to become Space Hitler Jr. I’d say that Mace was 100% right to not want them together, and when he goes off to arrest Palpatine he tells Anakin to stay put because he senses Anakin’s confusion and knows Palpatine will take advantage of that to turn Anakin to his side, and surprise surprise, Anakin doesn’t stay put and Palpatine takes advantage of his confusion to turn him to his side. 

And people think that Mace NEVER trusted Anakin at ALL and he and Anakin always vehemently HATED each other, ignoring that Anakin praises Obi-Wan by comparing him to Yoda and Mace, implying that he highly respected both of them, or that one deleted scene where Obi-Wan expresses concern over Anakin and MACE is the one who tells OBI-WAN to have faith that Anakin will make the right choice, or how in TCW they work together several times, most extensively in the Zillo Beast and Boba Fett arcs from season 2, where they actually make a pretty good team and seem to get along fine, and the only slight conflict between them in those episodes is that Mace initially doesn’t understand why Anakin is so close to R2, and even then when R2 saves them Mace praises R2 saying that Anakin’s trust in him was well-earned, showing that he is in fact willing to admit when he’s wrong and thus not as arrogant as many seem to think he is. But sure, Mace and Anakin totally always hated each other with a passion and Mace is totally like 90% of the reason he turned to the dark side, sure, let’s go with that I guess.

And I think this applies to Mace and Ahsoka too, albeit to a slightly lesser extent since they don’t interact as often. I made this first point in another post I made, but the idea that “Plo was the only one who apologized to Ahsoka unlike Mace” is kinda ridiculous since Plo’s own words were “you have our most humble apologies”, with the word “our” telling us that he was apologizing on behalf of the whole council, not just himself, because if they all lined up to say it one at a time that would be silly and impractical and ruin the pacing. And regarding the “this was actually your great trial” line, I really don’t think that was him trying to deflect the blame, mainly because the Force isn’t just some mumbo jumbo that the Jedi made up, it is in fact a real cosmic force that controls the universe and it DOES test people, this is a provable fact within the Star Wars universe. When the Jedi say “the Force will be with you” or any similar sayings, they’re saying The Very Real Cosmic Force That Controls All Our Destinies Will Work Out In Your Favor, that’s why it’s such a meaningful phrase to them. Basically, while it most definitely wasn’t the time or place for it, I do think Mace saying the Force was testing Ahsoka to make her a better Jedi was less trying to deflect the blame and more just him trying to put a positive spin on a shitty situation, but the wound was still fresh and she was still hurt and still angry and it just wasn’t what she wanted to hear, which is perfectly understandable, but just because someone isn’t saying what you want to hear doesn’t mean they aren’t being genuine.

And then this leads us to the infamous “citizen” line, where Mace, who need I remind you is currently dealing with Palpatine’s abuse of his emergency powers coming to a head and contemplating the possibility of having to arrest him which will inevitably cause a lot of political chaos, all while, again, Palpatine is secretly grooming Anakin to become Space Hitler Jr. behind their backs, and overall is basically having the shittiest most stressful week ever, gets a little snappy with Ahsoka when she tries to butt in the council’s conversation regarding this highly sensitive information despite not being in the order anymore, and she understands and doesn’t even seem mad about it or anything, especially since she was the one who called herself “citizen” first. And when she doesn’t tell them about Maul’s warning about Anakin people act like she did this Specifically cause Mace was rude to her. Cause apparently we decided it would be TOTALLY in-character for her to condemn the Jedi to genocide on purpose just to be petty even though she herself all but outright said she was planning to return to the order after the war ended, rather than contemplating the much more likely possibility that she simply didn’t tell them because, as established in the previous episode, she had too much faith in Anakin to believe it herself until it was too late. And even if she HAD told them who even knows how much good it would’ve done considering that as this conversation was being had Anakin was already on his way to Palpatine’s office, at which point Palpatine reveals himself and promises to save Padme and all that jazz. Even IF Ahsoka told Mace, how differently would things have played out? He’d probably still try to arrest Palpatine and still try to keep Anakin from interfering only for him to interfere anyway. But no, we can’t blame Anakin for making crappy life choices or Palpatine for setting the whole thing into motion in the first place, clearly Mace being kinda rude to Ahsoka an hour ago means that he singlehandedly doomed the Jedi Order and deserved to be thrown out the window. Sure. Why not.

In conclusion, Mace isn’t perfect because no one’s perfect but he’s not a bad guy and he’s not “everything wrong with the Jedi” or “the reason they fell” or whatever, he did his best in a no-win situation and by almost killing Palpatine he actually came closer to stopping it than anyone save maybe Fives. Just because a character comes into conflict with the protagonist doesn’t make them The Real Bad Guy, especially when said protagonist is currently in the middle of his Villain Origin Story. You are not immune to main character bias. The end.

[phoenixyfriend]

Rey Gives No F*cks About the Grandfather Paradox

Okay so since nobody’s suggested a fic under these terms, I ended up expanding on this post on discord and things snowballed. We kept to the basics of the entire plot revolving around Rey really hating her grandad and leveraging her blood relation to not be unalived about it.

With contributions by @atagotiak​, @dracothulhu​, @thepallaspalace​, and several others. The title comes from @gelpenss​.

The basic thing I absolutely need is this: Rey gets thrown back to the middle of the clone wars, and the subsequent plot leans in really heavily on her being, genetically-via-clone-dad, the daughter of the guy running the entire galaxy.

Nobody knows what to do with her.

The timing is mid-TCW for the past (because I want Ahsoka there) and vaguely between Episodes 8 and 9 because I... never watched E9 and don’t want to worry about the timeline. The only things that matter is that Luke is dead (he can die as he did in canon) and that Rey knows she’s Palp’s granddaughter (not the way she does in canon).

We'll say Luke found out from Anakin's panicked force-ghost and just went "well, fuck, okay, I should tell her this before she ends up in a situation like mine and finds out mid-battle or something."

Luke, prior to time-travel: Okay, so, now that I'm dead I know some things I didn't before. Like who your parents were. In the interest of full disclosure because I was in a very similar situation and I don't want you learning the way I did, I'm just going to come right out and say that your father was a clone was Sheev Palpatine. Rey: ... Luke: Are you okay? Rey: I don't know who that is.

(She grew up on Jakku, the history education was a little subpar.)

Setting The Scene

Imagine Rey showing up during or immediately before the clone wars. There’s this phenomenally powerful feral teenager from a desert backwater who tells you that if you ran a paternity test, it would probably pop up the Chancellor. She may or may not bring up cloning. She accuses said Chancellor of being a Sith Lord.

Your other phenomenally powerful feral teenager from a desert backwater, who may not be a teenager anymore but only barely, is very offended by this because Palpatine’s a Very Nice Old Grandfather Figure, but also he’s a little full of side-eye because if the blood test comes back as proof, then Palpatine had a kid and didn’t even know about them, or lied to Anakin, and that’s! Bad! Family’s important!!!

Palpatine hears about this daughter he apparently? Has? And is very confused because the timing doesn’t match up with ANYTHING he was doing, so the kid isn’t natural, and he says as much. (There is an explanation! It’s not a correct explanation, but he does come up with one.)

Finn and Poe and BB-8 all get dragged along because why not have the gang there? Nobody that’s already born, because [handwave] conservation of souls or something, IDK, point is the only person dragged along that’s even remotely close to already existing is Luke’s Force Ghost, who mostly hangs around begging Rey to be less impulsive. Finn is good because he is a nice polite boy, but for actual useful information they need Poe. The unfortunate situation is that the three do not land together. They land at the same time, in completely different corners of the galaxy. This means that nobody is there to curb Rey being her most impulsive self.

Time travel Rey knows two things. Luke’s dad ends up evil. Palpatine has always been evil.

She can solve one of these problems by killing the other, yes?

Rey: Ready to Rumble

See, the initial idea was this: Rey tried to break into the senate to kill Palpatine, got arrested, and then used the "he's biologically my father" card to get out of jail free. (Force Ghost Luke follows her like “please take five seconds to think this through.”)

But.

But.

It would be very, very, very funny if The Force just dumps her in a flash of light in the senate building and she just attacks Gramps on sight. Just a shouted "YOU!" and no-hesitation attempted murder.

Palpatine has no idea what's going on.

Rey took maybe two seconds to get identity confirmation and then started swinging.

[Image Description: An individual in a green metal helmet with an eye slit, holding a pistol. In the upper left, upper right, and lower middle are the phrases “I do not know who I am...” “I don’t know why I’m here” and “All I know is that I must kill.” End description.]

Of course, she gets arrested. There are Master Jedi in the Senate. There are Clone Troopers. Palpatine isn’t the weak old man he pretends to be. Of course she’s stopped.

But she isn’t executed in time for Palpatine to stop her from ruining his entire reputation.

Immediately after Rey fails to kill her Shitty Granddad, Luke's ghost shows up and begs her to not talk about the Sith thing because it will completely undermine everything she's trying to do. Pass off the attempted murder as something else!

Rey, panicking: "that fucker left me on a desert planet for 10 years!" "You owe me 19 years of child support you son of a Hutt!"

The Jedi have to do the investigation, because the girl showed up with a laser sword, and the conversation is, uh... interesting. (“Where did you get that lightsaber?” “I got it from a mysterious old pirate lady I never met before. I don't know, I was being shown around by a smuggler and a Wookie.”)

Interviewer: Why did you try to assassinate the Chancellor? Luke: Say it wasn't assassination. Rey: It wasn't assassination. Int: You weren't trying to kill him? Luke: Assassination has to be politically motivated. Rey: This was, um... not political. Assassination is political, right? Int: You mean this was personally motivated? Rey: Yes. Int: I see. What personal motivation? Luke: Jakku! Rey: He's my grandfather. Int: ... Rey: Possibly father. Nobody was very clear on that. Int: ... Luke: Tell them to run a paternity test. Rey: Oh hey, a blood test would tell us which, right? Int: ............ Rey: I spent ten years as an orphaned scrapdealer on Jakku. He's my father. I'm kind of a little angry. Int: ........... Luke: Good job, kid. You bought yourself some time. Int: I'm going to get a medic to see about that parternity test.

Obviously, it comes back positive. Congratulations, Sheev, you’re the father.

Rey comes with a ready-made built-in excuse for hating Palpatine that nobody can question or fault her for!

Rey, pouring Truth into the Force: I didn't even know I was related to the Chancellor until a few months ago, but it's his fault I grew up the way I did, and he should take some responsibility!

The entire thing is mostly kept hush hush but someone leaks it to the press and Palpatine's ratings tank.

"Chancellor, I think we'll need to waive family visitation until she wants you a little less dead." "I would like to find out why she wants me dead, and indeed, where she came from." "...sir, for your own safety--"

Who would win? A master plan years in the making spanning decades of manipulating and work? or One (1) paternity test

"Okay, so, Rey Palpat--" "Ew, no, I don't want his name." "You--okay. Sure, we can understand that. Is there a name you would prefer to put on the paperwork?" Rey, who would have gone by Skywalker in honor of Luke but can't do that when Anakin is right there and all: "Can I think about it?"

Rey: I don't know what I want my last name to be but I know I don't want his, and most of the people I’d want a name from have famous families like you... Luke's ghost, pointing out the Literal Nobody that she cares about a lot: How about Solo? Rey: ...Solo, then.

(A few months later she runs into Poe again and he offers for Finn and Rey to both take his name because honestly they need SOMETHING but at that point she’s already decided on Smuggler Dad.)

Backtrack a bit. We’ve got a bigger cast.

They all arrive separately. Poe, for one, does better than Rey, who is aiming for a murder, but not quite as well as Finn, who is currently being adopted and hidden like a secret cat by a bunch of Alpha Clones on Kamino. He vibes with the names-or-numbers thing. He doesn’t necessarily tell them where and when he’s from, but he’s very sweet and a great liar and they adopt him wholesale anyway.

The Finn situation is just... "Buir Ti, we need you to hide this man, we've decided he's our little brother but if Nala Se finds out she'll make him leave."

Of course, this leads into Shaak Ti teaching Finn how to Jedi.

Maybe consider Finn needing to almost be tricked into learning Jedi things because he willfully forgets it could apply to him. Finn does not like to think of himself as special, which is super valid, but frustrating for Shaak Ti when it comes to, you know, getting him to acquire knowledge. Finn's training at some point is "here, levitate objects with the Force to entertain the tubies." It’s a lot easier to convince him to practice when it involves the babies.

(Everyone on Kamino looked at Finn and went “oh I love him I’m keeping him and teaching him things.”)

(He’s just very lovable.)

Poe, meanwhile, buys the trust of Anakin Skywalker via R2D2 declaring BB-8 the absolute most baby of droids. R2D2 met BB-8 three hours ago but.

"Hey Obi-Wan this is Poe I met him like five days ago but R2D2 says he checks out because his droid is a baby." "That's nice, Anakin, did you know the Chancellor has a daughter who tried to assassinate him in broad daylight yesterday? Because guess who had to stop the Chancellor from getting assassinated by his daughter in broad daylight yesterday."

A summary so far:

Finn, on Kamino: Hey, um, I don't know where this is, but it's not where I was a few minutes ago. Do you think you could get me a comm? What's your name? Poe, on [dice roll] Denon: Oh, hey, you're General Skywalker? Nice to meet you, I'm so sorry about my droid, she's a little excitable and thought your R2 unit looked like a friend of hers-- Rey, on Coruscant: DIE, GRANDFATHER

Finn: [Peacefully vibing on Kamino, unaware of the chaos and bonding with the clones] Poe: [Trying to explain how he knows someone who tried to kill the chancellor and defend Rey] Rey: [Arrested for trying to kill the chancellor]

Just... just...

Anakin: Some guy ended up lost on base yesterday with his droid, how’s your day going? Obi-Wan: I had to stop someone who claims to be the chancellors daughter from murdering the chancellor after she seemingly blinked into existence in the Senate building. Poe: 😐

(Poe: Oh, so that's where Chaos^2 went.)

Poe: In her defense, she is his... well we don't know if she's his daughter or granddaughter, but she's definitely related to him, and she definitely grew up in a shitty situation that was his fault, so...

(Poe is trying very hard to explain this and not get arrested on the military base.)

As you’ve probably guessed, what's especially funny about all of this for me is the fact that Palpatine is fully aware that this girl shouldn't exist, but can't find a single piece of evidence about where she came from. He didn't start any experiments that could result in a female child, and he didn't have sex in that period of time, so where the hell--

Rey spends so much time in jail... BUT they do eventually assign her a Jedi Master. Possibly before she actually proves her evil grandfather is in fact evil. Most votes went to either Plo Koon or Obi-Wan. Plo, because he’s dad-shaped, and Obi...

"Obi-Wan, you already raised one feral desert child with implausible amounts of power, you handle this." Rey in return is very "Sweet, you vaguely remind me of Master Luke," and nobody knows who the hell she's talking about. Obi-Wan is NOT on board with this plan, she'd really be better off with Plo or like........ Mace.

Reunion Tour

What I need out of this is the eventual Finn and Rey reunion scene that is just excited screaming while someone in the background explains to Shaak Ti that yes this is apparently Palpatine's terrifyingly force-sensitive daughter who hates him.

(Finn senses Rey’s approach and just. Gathers the everyone to wait. He’s just :D REY MY FRIEND REY GUYS MY FRIEND REY IS COMING.)

Anakin shows up with Poe--just a guy who signed on to the military, no big deal--and then Poe and Rey are EXCITED and everyone's just like "Cool, how do you know this literal terrorist child?" And Poe has to scramble and "Uhhhhhhhhhhhh she saved my droid from a scrapheap once and BB-8 is basically my child so I owe her one."

Rey knows that Anakin ends up evil so she’s maybe not actively hostile but definitely very “I’m watching you.” That said, she vibes with him on a lot of things that he maybe doesn’t actively notice.

Rey picks up a snake, snaps off the head for venom avoidance, and starts biting off chunks. Obi-Wan's reaction: [undisguised horror] Anakin and Ahsoka: Ooh, where'd you find that? (Obi-Wan: And now I’m up to three feral children.)

What Does Palpatine Even Do?

OBVIOUSLY at a certain point, Palpatine is just phoning up every ally he has to figure out who broke protocol to synthesize a daughter for him.

So of course, Palpatine blame Plagueis.

She'd have been born five or so years before Naboo, just a few years younger than Anakin. It's such an EASY theory to build a conspiracy around. It is ENTIRELY WRONG, but it’s plausible! And anyone who might have been involved to say otherwise is probably dead!

A random bio-kid shows up you can’t possibly have contributed genes to? Maybe it’s the evil bio spark that did it.

Palpatine tries to placate her with the ‘my genes were stolen for an experiment and I didn’t know’ thing. It doesn’t work because her actual main complaint is he’s evil in her future but he tries.

It'd be a struggle to even get access to her, because of the aforementioned “maybe don’t try to talk to the daughter(?) that hates you” thing, but you know who Palpatine does have access to? The Chosen One.

Rey kind of decides on her favorites early on (she gravitates to Dad Energy and Sad Old Men so Plo and Obi-Wan are on her list, and that means decent time around Anakin and Ahsoka). It's really easy to talk Anakin into helping to some degree because "he'd like to connect to a daughter he never knew" and "a child of her power on a planet like that, you'd know her struggle, my dear boy" and so on. Anakin tries to connect! He tries to play up Sheev’s kind political work and how it can’t have really been his fault! It doesn’t work. Rey does not believe a word of it. Mostly she doesn’t even seem to hear him.

Rey's just like "...oh right, you're the melted mask that Kylo Ren was always ranting about," which means absolutely NOTHING to Anakin, but he mentions it to Palps, who loses his goddamn mind trying to figure out what she's talking about, because it also means absolutely nothing to him.

Here’s the thing: Rey’s already decided that Obi-Wan is cool, because Luke said so, and Plo Koon is dad-shaped, and she also gravitates towards earnest kindness in general, like she made friends with Finn real quick, so Ahsoka? Already getting along great.

She doesn’t dislike Anakin, really, he isn’t evil yet, he’s just... meh. She’s a little suspicious and she likes him less than the others but... Anakin.

Rey, to Anakin: You are my least favorite. Anakin, to Palpatine: YOUR DAUGHTER HATES ME???

And he goes from “she’s a lil standoffish” to “she doesn’t like me” to “she hates me” as is normal for Anakin.

It’s just an escalation of this one time Palpatine wants Anakin to not have rifts and trust issues with a person, at least not until later, because he needs information.

Meanwhile, that very moment, Rey is just like "huh, nobody here is listening to me about how make a sixth-hand carburetor work, where's Luke's dad?"

Anakin is venting to Palpatine about how hard it is to talk to Rey, and she's over in the Temple just like "Hey, that guy was useful last time, I should ask him," but also she only ever thinks of him as Luke's Dad.

(At one point, Obi-Wan is having a bit of a break down, and then Anakin starts having a breakdown about that, meanwhile the clones are (badly) trying to hide Finn behind their backs, Rey is watching Ahsoka practice and being like "I want two lightsabers," and Poe is trying to keep R2 from stealing BB-8 and Force Ghost Luke is just face palming in the background.)

(Rey deserved a saber staff, maybe one that can detach and turn into a jar’kai set. Possibly a pike. Mostly I just wish she got more chances to whack things with a big stick.)

[feltpool]

Whatever happened to Dogma?

Dogma executed a Jedi.

No matter the good reasons he had for doing it he couldn't simply be given a slap on the wrist and return to active duty with the 501st afterwards. So what happened to him?

There’s a good chance that he was 'decommissioned', whatever that actually means in TCW terms.

Fans have wanted to know what happened to him ever since, and maybe we're going to find out.

Because, and this may seem a bit random, but bear with me.

Hunter could be Dogma.

Or, more specifically, that’s who he might have been before he was 'enhanced', rebranded, and reassigned to CF99.

And before you start coming for me with the argument that the Batch were enhanced as babies so that can’t possibly be the case I’ll remind you that that’s

Only a fan assumption based on the Kaminoan’s being known primarily as cloners

That they escaped from Nala Se’s lab in full grown adult sized tubes, not baby sized ones

And Omega is likely 13 years old at most. How could she possibly remember them being in the lab if they were tortured and experimented on enhanced that long ago?

.

Anyway,

It could explain why he's always been professionally friendly towards Rex, but also seems cautious around him and never lingers, nor encourages Rex to. What if he says the wrong thing and Rex puts two and two together exposing his past to the rest of the team, exposing him for being a Jedi killer, exposing him for blindly following Krell and contributing towards so many of his brothers being needlessly killed.

It'd explain how come Cody knows him. Because he'd know what happened to him even if no one else did. I doubt you can make a soldier with that on his record just vanish entirely and Cody is Marshall Commander of the GAR. Krell pitted the 212th against the 501st - Cody's own men. And he isn't going to forget that it was Dogma who put an ultimate end to that.  He refers to Hunter as a good man, maybe this is why. But Echo had been lost prior to Umbara, so Echo is safe. A reminder of his old battalion, but without the risk of exposure. But why the 'reg' hate? Because he’s bitter and wracked with guilt over the life he used to have? Because none of his brothers stopped him being decommissioned? Because he sees them as having turned their backs on him? Because they remained loyal to the Jedi afterwards even though Krell was a Jedi and he sees them all as betraying him because of that? Or is it just a part of his reconditioning for his new life, to make sure he doesn't want to hang around with the others and inadvertently expose the truth of who he used to be? For all his talk of disobeying orders he still appears to follow them pretty damn blindly, taking Tech's word as gospel, and doing we have no idea what on whatever dubious mission they've been assigned by someone he isn’t willing to admit to knowing the identity of when directly asked about it. Is he scared (has he been threatened) that if he doesn't follow through on their missions that he'll lose everything he has for a second time? He has long hair, just like Tup did. And Dogma growing his hair out as a way of remembering his brother is a common post-Umbara fan theory.

Dogma had a very distinctive hairline, and Hunter never takes that bandana off. It’s never clear if that’s his natural hairline, or if it’s shaved that way, (does the V-shaped tattoo mirror the hairline, or the other way around?) but there’s no sign of stubble on his head like there is on his face so it’s a possibility that he just has a really odd hairline.

We do see a variety of hairlines within the clones, they're not all the same. So it is possible (if unlikely) that his hair does just grow like that.

And if it is natural, if unusual, it’d explain why there’s no sign of him missing any hair post chip surgery. Because Dogma’s hairline goes waaaaaaay back at just the right point.  (The lack of missing hair is still weird though.)

In the finale Crosshair told him to stop pretending to be someone he isn't. Maybe that was a lot more pointed a comment than we're supposed to think it is.

And his tattoo. Presumably they have the SW equivalent of laser tattoo removal for any clones who live long enough to regret the tatt they got in their first year of service and want to get rid of it before slapping a new one on where it used to be. Hunter has a half skull, thick and dark like a lot of coverups are.

Skulls often symbolise death, or change.  The loss of the man he used to be, the 'death of Dogma', him becoming someone new but still remembering the person he used to be, even if not entirely? So half a skull, because he's a dead man, but he also isn't.  Coming back to the whole two-faced thing, but for a totally different reason. The CF99 logo skull is a totally different design to the one he has on his face, the shaping is all wrong.

But tattoo removal, in our universe at least, isn’t 100%. Even after several treatments you often get lingering remains. Like this:

(Courtesy of ‘G-Lasers laser tattoo removal services, Leicester’ website)

Where the original tatt has been broken down, but not removed entirely, and has then been covered up.

Dogma’s tattoo as seen in ‘Plan of Dissent’ ^ (although the design does tend to move about a touch in different shots, which is understandable because it’s a complex design to keep mapped on the model exactly)

Hunter’s tattoo as seen in the mess hall fight in Ep 01 ^

Or, with a very short amount of time roughly scribbling on a screenshot:

A very bad illustration of how Hunter’s tattoo would cover up Dogma’s partially removed tattoo

All of the purple-ish area would be hidden under the skull tattoo, and his ever present bandana would hide almost all of the rest. Only the area above and beside his right eye would need to have been completely erased for this to work. The narrow strip above his left eyebrow is far too narrow for anyone to notice any trace discolouration unless they were really looking for it, and knew what they were looking for.

You can see a ‘darker than his skin tone’ mark on his nose underneath the main darkly tattooed area where the lingering remains of the original nose tattoo may still lightly show.

There. I hurriedly coloured him in for the full... appreciation? of how covering up Dogma’s tatt with Hunter’s would work. If you want art you’re looking at the wrong person. I only do rushed and ugly scribble.

And what of the ID barcode in his left arm? Those haven’t been mentioned since Gregor’s was scanned all the way back in Season 5 even though Echo conveniently managed to keep the arm which would confirm his identity if he ever needs to. Can those ID’s be reprogrammed, or if Hunter’s was scanned would it confirm his birth identity and number instead of the one most recently assigned to him?

We don't know what they might have done to him to 'enhance' him, how he might have been reprogrammed, or how his potentially questionable loyalties might have been reinforced. But I can't rule out the possibility that Hunter hasn’t always been Hunter. Like it or not.

[teagrl]

Andor ep 11

Oh man this show has something for everyone, doesn’t it?

How neat was that mini dogfight at the end? This ep seemed to be kind of talking back to people who accused the show of not being Star Wars enough. Like yes, it’s short of comedic moments, but I don’t mind that. I’m sure the cartoons have plenty of those.

What I’m referring to is the inclusion of aliens, robots, and that great escape by Luthen at the end.  When he was asking for a transponder, I was squeeing like the big dork fangirl I am. One thing is to see scenes like that in novels, but for someone who hasn’t watched either Rebels or TCW to see them happening live action is super fun, even if it makes Luthen go into the whole supercool dude category, which I’m usually leery of.

On other news, humanizing B2EMO was also a quintesencial star wars move, seeing him process grief was wrenching (that opening show where it’s like he’s submerged was very effective, I thought). I hope he has a part to play in the finale.

Seems like Bix does too! I’m looking forward to that. Speaking of wrenching seeing what’s become of her after her torture is horrific (the echoes of the chanting then being Leida’s was such a brilliant transition, I caaaan’t). I really really hope that the narrative will allow her to take well deserved revenge. All along as they are asking her about Kreegyr I keep thinking about the adage that torture victims will tell you what you want to hear because they just want it to stop. If Andor nails it, that will be even more aces.

Aliens! Although I enjoyed their presence here, I do miss more of them being present in the narrative. That said, their willingness to aid Cassian and their own hate to the Empire is great. I also liked Saw’s soldier (and that scene with Luthen saying he was the mole was fantastic as was the back and forth where they decide on being ruthless. Seeing Saw struggle with it too was a good moment for him -- although I thought fifty men would die, not thirty, but I only watch the eps once). 

Unfortunately I feel a Vel deathwatch coming on. Her fear as Mon describes the trouble she’s in was visceral. You could see her working out how many people would suffer if Mon lead the Empire to Luthen and then Luthen led them to others -- even if circumstancially. I really hope she won’t thrust herself into martyrdom to keep Mon safe. I see the narrative heading there since Cinta told her that the struggle comes first and having her repeat that to Mon. Then her recklessness in straight up approaching Kleya was...not great. I hope I’m wrong.

And I could be -- easily. Mon said she found a way out and you see her being torn up about Leida. Her way out is simply to let Leida continue drifting away from her. Leida is already throwing herself headfirst into conservatism as her own rebellion against her mother, to throw herself into marriage is part and parcel of the same thing. That doesn’t make it any better, mind you. Mon knows that at the end of the day, tradition can be stifling or at least she doesn’t seem to be all that happy in the marriage she made as a child (nor does Perrin), and this is without mentioning how unhappy she’d be at seeing her family linked to another whose values she abhors. It didn’t seem like she agreed with the business man (I forget his name) that limits were liberating (which I agree in other contexts, not necessarily in Andor’s, so I see where Mon’s coming from). It’s her experience which leads her to want something better for Leida down the line, but Leida right now is too caught up with opposing her mother. I find this whole dynamic and the heartbreak in it fascinating. I love how it ties the very personal to the political writ large.

What more can I say about Luthen and Saw? As I mentioned the exchange does so much to show us what kind of principled soldier Saw is. It bothers him to betray Kreegyr, but he comes to see this as war which opens up all sorts of permissible moves. I do wonder if Luthen did truly mean to give Saw the option to lose Lonnie/alert ISB of his existence or if he had another plan up his sleeve. I remembered how he gave Cassian a way out too before Aldhani with the kyber. I kinda don’t want to think he’s that principled, too much is at stake for him, I like thinking that there are traps within traps, but in any case, people do act the way he hopes.

And Cassian! Agreeing with Melshi that they have to tell people. He’s come a long way from wanting to keep his head down. Seeing him hear of Maarva’s passing tempted the audience into witnessing his radicalization right there, hearing him give some powerful speech or something. I’m guessing we’re going to have to hang in there for the last ep to witness him fully tip into the Rebellion’s side -- perhaps with a grand gesture? That is if Narkina Five wasn’t enough, but I’m greedy like all fans. 

Argh, I am so sorry that next week is the finale. I’m going to miss this show so much!

[thimbil]

Having some thoughts about the references and inspirations used for the Bad Batch’s designs.

So Boba Fett is my absolute favorite character and Temeura Morrison was perfect casting. I went to see the 2008 TCW movie in theaters because I was so excited to see him again, even if he was animated. You can imagine my disappointment. Whoever was on screen was not Temeura Morrison. You could sort of see a resemblance if you squinted and didn’t think too hard about it. They replaced Temeura with Racially Ambiguous G.I. Joe. If I didn’t know better and someone told me the animated clones are space Italians from the moon of New Jersey I would buy it. One Million Brothers Pizzeria and Italian Bistro. Not that there’s something wrong with being space Italian, I just don’t think it’s the right choice for the Fetts. The design got slightly improved by season 7 but it still bugs the hell out of me.

I did eventually get into the show later and (of course) got invested in the clones. Unfortunately, they were largely sidelined by the Jedi storylines. Out of the two new main characters created for TCW, Ahsoka definitely got more development and focus than Rex. When they announced The Bad Batch, I was excited to see a show specifically devoted to the clones… at least that’s what it said on the tin. We have all seen what lurks beneath those stylish helmets.

Jango Fett, you are NOT the father.

So who is?

Based on interviews with Filoni, it sounds like the Bad Batch was a George Lucas idea. And like all his ideas, it’s super derivative. The original trilogy directly lifted elements from sci fi serials, westerns, and samurai movies, more specifically Kurosawa films like The Hidden Fortress. For The Bad Batch character designs, the influence is obviously American action and adventure movies.

Now let’s get specific. Bad Batch, who’s your daddy?

Hunter

Sylvester Stallone as Rambo in First Blood 1982. That bandana has become an integral part of the iconic action hero look. You see a character wearing one and it’s a visual shorthand for either “this character is a tough guy” like Billy played by Sonny Landham in Predator 1987, or “this character thinks he is/wants to be a tough guy” like Brand played by Josh Brolin in The Goonies 1985 or Edward Frog played by Corey Feldman in The Lost Boys 1987.

Hunter’s model is closest to the original clone base. If you look closely you will see the eyebrows are straighter with a much lower angle to the arch. His nose is also not the same shape as a standard clone like Rex, including a narrower bridge. It’s certainly not Temeura Morrison’s nose. Remember what I said about space Italians? It didn’t take much to push the existing clone design to resemble an specific Italian man instead of a specific Māori man. The 23&Me came back, and Hunter inherited more than the bandana from Sylvester.

Crosshair

The long narrow nose, the sharp cheekbones, the scowl. That’s no clone, that’s just animated Clint Eastwood. Not even Young and Hot Clint Eastwood from Rawhide 1959-1965. With that hair, I’m talking Gran Torino 2008. The man of few words schtick and family friendly toothpick in lieu of cigar are pure Eastwood as The Man With No Name from Sergio Leone’s spaghetti westerns A Fist Full of Dollars 1964, For a Few Dollars More 1965, and The Good the Bad and the Ugly 1966.

In a way, this is full circle because the actor Jeremy Bulloch took inspiration from Clint Eastwood for his performance as Boba Fett in ESB.

Wrecker

In an interview Filoni lists the Hulk as an (obvious) inspiration for Wrecker. Ever seen the old Hulk tv show from 1978? Well take a look at the actor who played him, Lou Ferrigno. Would you look at that. Even has his papa’s nose.

You could make the argument that Wrecker was influenced by The Rock, an appropriately buff ‘n bald Polynesian (Samoan, not Maori) man. But look at him next his Fast and Furious costar Vin Diesel and tell me which one resembles Wrecker’s character model more.

Tech

Tech is a little trickier for me to place. If he has a more direct inspiration it must be something I haven’t seen. That said, his hairline is very Bruce Willis as John McClane in Die Hard 1988. His quippiness and large glasses remind me of Shane Black as Hawkins from Predator 1987. In terms of his face, he looks a but like the result of McClane and Hawkins deciding to settle down and start a family. Although, Tech’s biggest contributors are probably just everyone on TV Trope’s list for Smart People Wear Glasses.

And finally,

Echo

Oh Echo. Considering he wasn’t created for the Bad Batch, he probably wasn’t based on a particular character or movie. But if I had to guess, his situation and appearance remind me a lot of Alex Murphy played by Peter Weller in Robocop 1987. However, Robocop explored the Man or Machine Identity Crisis with more nuance, depth, and dignity. Yikes.

The exact tropes and references used in The Bad Batch have been done successfully with characters who aren’t even human. Gizmo from Gremlins 2: The New Batch 1990 had a brief stint with the Rambo bandana. I could have picked any number of characters for Defining Feature Is Glasses but here is the most cursed version of Simon of Alvin and the Chipmunks. Suffer as I have. Marc Antony with his beloved Pussyfoot from Looney Tunes has the same tough guy with a soft center vibe as Wrecker and his Lula (also a kind of cat). Hell, in the same show we have Cad Bane sharing Cowboy Clint Eastwood with Crosshair. I actually think Bane makes a better Eastwood which is wild considering Crosshair has Eastwood’s entire face and Bane is blue.

So we’ve established you don’t need your characters to look exactly like their inspirations to match their vibe. So why go through the trouble and cost of creating completely new character designs instead of recycling and altering assets they already had on hand? Just slap on a bandana, toothpick, goggles, and make Wrecker bigger than the others while he does a Hulk pose and you’re done. Based on the general reaction to Howzer it would have been a low effort slam dunk crowd pleaser.

But they didn’t do that.

So here’s the thing. I like the tropes used in The Bad Batch. I am a fan of action adventure movies from the 80s-90s, the sillier the better. I am part of the Bad Batch’s target audience. Considering what I know about Disney and Lucasfilm, I went in with low expectations. I genuinely don’t hate the idea of seeing references to these actors and media in The Bad Batch. I don’t think basing these characters on tropes was a bad idea. If anything it’s a solid starting point for building the characters.

The trouble is nothing got built on the foundation. The plot is directionless, the pacing is wacky, and the characters have nearly no emotional depth or defining character arcs. They just sort of exist without reacting much while the story happens around them. But I can excuse all of that. You don’t stay a fan of Star Wars as long as I have not being able to cherrypick and fill in the gaps. This show has a deeper issue that shouldn’t be ignored.

Why do the animated clones bear at best only a passing resemblance to their live action actor? In interviews, Filoni wouldn’t shut up but the technological advancements in the animation for season 7. So if they are updating things, why not try to make the clones a closer match to their source material? Why did they have to look like completely different people in The Bad Batch to be “unique”? Looking like Temeura Morrison would have no bearing on their special abilities and TCW proved you can have identical looking characters and still have them be distinct. In fact, that’s a powerful theme and the source of tragedy for the clones’ narrative overall.

Here’s Filoni’s early concept art of Crosshair, Wrecker, Tech, and Hunter. (Interesting but irrelevant: Wrecker seems to have a cog tattoo similar to Jesse’s instead of a scar. Wouldn’t it have been funny if they kept that so when they met in season 7 one if them could say something like “Hey we’re twins!” That’s a little clone humor. Just for you guys 😘)

None of these drawings look like the clones in TCW, much less Temeura Morrison. Let’s be generous. Maybe Filoni struggles with drawing a real person’s likeness, as many people do. But he had to hand this off to other artists down the line whose job specifically involves making a stylized character resemble their actor. Yet the final designs missed the mark almost as much as this initial concept. Starting to seem as if the clones looking more like Temeura Morrison was never even on the table. It wasn’t a lack of creativity, skill or technical limitations on the part of the creative team. I don’t think there is an innocent explanation. They went out of their way to make the final product exactly how we got it.

This goes beyond homage. They could have made the same pop culture references and character tropes without completely stripping Temeura Morrison from the role he originated. It was a very purposeful choice to replace him with more immediately familiar actors from established franchises and films. It wouldn’t shock me if Filoni, Lucas, and anyone else calling the shots didn’t even think hard or care enough about the decision to immediately recognize a problem. And I don’t think they believed anyone else would either. At least no one whose opinion they cared about. Those faces are comfortingly familiar and proven bankable. They are what we’re all used to seeing after all. They’re white.

Lack of imagination, bad intentions, or simple ignorance doesn’t really matter in the end. The result is the same. Call it what it is. They replaced a man of color with a bunch of white guys. That’s by the book garden variety run of the mill whitewashing. There’s no debate worth having about it. For a fanbase that loves to nitpick things like whether or not it’s in character for Han to shoot first or Jeans Guy in the Mandalorian, we sure are quick to find excuses for clones who look nothing like their template. Why is that? If you don’t see the problem, congratulations. Your ass is showing. Pull your jeans up.

[swtorpadawan]

Ff the Sith Warrior encourges her to go kill the Hutt who worked her mother to death on Tatooine, she comes back traumatised. One comment on a video of that pointed out that up until that point she has helped the SW in killing numerous people and even worked as an assassin for hire without guilt, so it's weird for her to get remorsful for killing someone who personally wronged her and now I can't help but agree it's inconsistant. Any thoughts?

First – Thank you so much for asking thing, @bentarb ! You always ask the best questions!

I understand your position. In a vacuum? It is definitely inconsistent with some of Vette’s inactions. As you say, she does help the Sith Warrior kill a lot of people, a few of whom – like Jaesa’s parents – didn’t really deserve it.

But I think you’re missing the personal element.

All those people Vette killed in combat with her blasters, and all those others the Sith Warrior targeted? None of them were “personal” to her. Even in the case of Cada Bliss, the crime lord who got Vette captured on Korriban, and who had mistreated the Twi’leks as a people, didn’t suffer much more than a bruised ego and the loss of some bauble. (I’m serious – the Sith Warrior doesn’t even have the option to kill him.)

Why is this important?

Because that’s how killing works. Both in the real world and in ‘Star Wars’. Its one thing to kill someone because you have to do it to survive. Its another thing to kill them because you personally hate them.

Watch the original trilogy and the ‘The Clone Wars’ series. We see Luke Skywalker kill a lot of opponents – other pilots, stormtroopers, and an entire Death Star that had more than a million people onboard – and it never phased him much. Because he didn’t actually hate any of those people. Killing them was not his goal. So he remained the noble, idealistic young hero. It was only when he nearly killed Vader in his rage that something terrible nearly happened.

In TCW, we see both Anakin and Obi-Wan kill other people. But watch their reactions. Watch how they deal with it. With Obi-Wan, there is stoic regret. With Anakin, there’s hate and anger. Years later in Rebels, Obi-Wan confronts Maul, who has done more to hurt Obi-Wan than (almost) anyone else living. Obi-Wan strikes Maul down, but there is no anger in the act. Only regret.

Now Force-users – I’ve always believed – are different. But the message is clear: Killing someone because you have to kill them to survive – or because your boss insists – is one thing. Killing them because they killed your mother and your sister wants to go on a killing spree is another.

For the record - You mention Vette’s claims to have worked as an assassin once. To me, that runs contrary to her personality. There are a great many times when she disapproves of dark-side choices, and no matter what anyone says, if you work as an assassin, you’ll inevitably have to kill someone who didn’t have it coming. Also – successful assassins don’t wind up raiding tombs on Korriban, getting captured and enslaved.

I head-canon that Vette spent, like, a week as an assassin and quickly realized that it didn’t fit her personality. So she quit, and the rest is history.

(I recognize that is only a head-canon. Treat it as you will.)

But I digress – It makes sense to me that Vette going after that Hutt is different than the other cases.

Does that make sense? These are just my opinions after all.

Thanks again for thinking of me.

[willowcrowned]

If TCW Obi-Wan gets to Kamino, with his Negotiator self and his Anakin-handling skills and his predilection towards in-combat flirting and dry sense of humor, I think the situation's going to end with Shmi looking over at New Husband Jango, saying "how do you feel about adding in a third to our relationship?" and then Anakin actually has an aneurysm from the horror.

asjdfhlfvklshsklsjsd;fjah I was planning it so that TCW Obi-Wan actually doesn’t show up at all so that the Jango/Shmi dynamic would have time to develop— because, let’s be honest, Jango is going to care a lot more about what Shmi, a mother and former slave, has to say about the clones than what Obi-Wan, a smug asshole of a Jedi, has to say, but also... this is SO funny.

Because Jango hates Obi-Wan’s guts— Obi-Wan is a Jedi (so he doesn’t even need much more reason after Galidraan), but Obi-Wan also gives off this constantly smug air that he inherited from Qui-Gon that makes him eminently punchable— but there is absolutely this weird undercurrent of sexual tension to it. I think sex and violence are a lot closer together for Mandalorians than they are for most people, so for Jango, hating Obi-Wan and also wanting to screw him makes sense. 

Obi-Wan, however, has no particular feelings about Jango Fett— he thinks he’s a cruel bastard, but Obi-Wan sees a lot of cruel bastards in his line of work, so he doesn’t have any particularly strong reactions to them. Jango, though, is horribly attractive (younger temuera morrison >>>), and Obi-Wan is possessed of the particular gift of being able to repress whatever he likes, which means he can and will sleep with the enemy.

So their interaction in AotC is hilarious. This is not news.

But then you add Shmi into the mix.

We’ll say Shmi has had enough time to start arguing with Jango— I think at this point he’s aware of how dangerous a situation he’s in, and also aware of the fact that Shmi might be his only ticket out. (Dooku will kill him if he reveals anything, intentionally or not. Anakin seems to be a little trigger-happy as well, which is equally terrible, but at least Shmi is there to keep him from immediately killing Jango.) I don’t think Jango sees the clones as his sons— he’s spent a lot of time denying them, and if he stops it means he has to admit that he willingly put his children into slavery— but I think Shmi has at least made him begin to see them as people.

Jango wasn’t very impressed with her at first. She’s small, demure, and quiet— someone who looks like they’ve never held anything more dangerous than a carving knife. But he learns very quickly that she has a spine of steel— and it’s not just that. There’s something more to her, a power blanketed so thickly that it’s barely noticeable, but he keeps getting the same feeling around her as he gets around some Jedi— a static in the air, like right before lightning strikes. 

He still doesn’t particularly like Shmi, but he is starting to respect her.

The problem with the threesome is Obi-Wan and Shmi’s relationship.

Shmi isn’t an idiot. She can see that Anakin is a fucked up tangle of emotions that he’s not dealing with— hell, she’s a fucked up tangle of emotions too. That’s what being a slave does to you. But there’s this edge to Anakin that comes when he’s been repressing it too long— not just pretending that he doesn’t have those feelings around people who might hurt him for it, but lying to himself and saying that they don’t exist.

And if Obi-Wan is the one who raised her son... Well, he’s who she’s gonna blame. 

The second he sets foot onto Kamino, she’s laying into him, no quarter given. No one gets to mess her son up that thoroughly and not hear about it, not when she’s free and he can’t do anything to her.

(This, ironically, is probably what makes Jango stop seeing her as an annoyance and start seeing her as an opponent— which, for Mandalorians, also means potential partner. Mandos are fun like that.)

[padawanlost]

So I was on Quora the other day, and someone speculated that insecurity was at the root of Anakin's arrogance and apparent cockiness. I thought this through and it makes so much sense. He felt insecure in his place as a Jedi and had this constant need to prove himself. What's your take?

Personally, I’ve never seen Anakin as arrogant. I think he was *perceived* as arrogant by the people around him but, internally, Anakin was also driven by insecurity (not egotism).

Because he was so insecure in a place where he knew he wasn’t accepted as he was, he overcompensated. It’s a very common behavior: I’ll try harder to prove myself. And because he was so powerful, his attempt to prove himself worthy was viewed as an attempt to show off.

The Jedi Council didn’t want me, either. Being the Chosen One didn’t count for anything. Master Yoda wouldn’t train me, or Windu. Every member of the Jedi Council had had something more pressing to do than help him work out what this terrible, galaxy-changing power of his meant, and how he should live in its shadow. He still wasn’t sure. Anakin recalled standing there in that grand, polished Jedi Council Chamber, surrounded by what felt like fear, and disdain, and bewilderment—who were those Masters to feel bewildered, that the only person there who cared if he lived or died was Master Qui-Gon Jinn. And they stopped him training the Chosen One. Qui-Gon hadn’t cared what the Jedi Council said. He’d trained him anyway, a Padawan in all but name. Why am I thinking of all this now? Haven’t I put it behind me? Haven’t I had enough bad memories since then to take their place? Haven’t I vindicated Master Qui-Gon? [Karen Traviss. The Clone Wars]

Anakin enjoyed praise from Obi-Wan, but often became sullen when he was reprimanded. Obi-Wan assured him that he himself had been frequently reminded by Qui-Gon to be more mindful of the Force, but somehow even the slightest criticism managed to leave Anakin feeling stung. First they tell me to do my best, then they tell me I’ve gone too far! ANAKIN SKYWALKER IN THE RISE AND FALL OF DARTH VADER BY RYDER WINDHAM

Because Anakin had not been trained since infancy at the Temple like nearly all other Padawans, various Jedi Masters accepted the fact that he lacked the discipline of his fellow students. They were less accepting, however, of his arrogant behavior when he demonstrated his abilities. I’m more powerful with the Force than some of my instructors, Anakin thought, and they know it! ANAKIN SKYWALKER IN THE RISE AND FALL OF DARTH VADER BY RYDER WINDHAM

Despite Anakin’s desire to distance himself from the slave he had once been, he was unable, or unwilling, to shed the other aspects that had defined him on Tatooine. He still dreamed of glory, still craved adventure, and never lost his appetite for high-speed thrills and the desire to prove himself in competition. THE RISE AND FALL OF DARTH VADER BY RYDER WINDHAM

What evidence to we truly have that Anakin was arrogance beyond people calling him that? And considering most of his peers and superiors didn’t take much time to get to truly know him, I’d say their option can be considered biased:

Anakin was liked by the other students, but he had no close friends. He was not loved. Obi-Wan told himself that Anakin’s gifts naturally set him apart. But in his heart, he grieved for Anakin’s loneliness. JUDE WATSON [JEDI QUEST: THE WAY OF THE APPRENTICE]

Just when Anakin thought he’d passed that elusive finishing line that said adult, experienced, seen it all, he realized he was still twenty, Jedi or not, and the wounded boy in him still rose to the surface—provoked into angry violence, scared of abandonment, and still in need of approval. KAREN TRAVISS [STAR WARS: THE CLONE WARS NOVELIZATION]

[Obi-Wan] knew, glancing at his Padawan’s eager face, that Anakin meant well from the bottom of his heart. If Obi-Wan saw a shadow on that heart, he knew it would pain his Padawan to know it. In many ways, Anakin was still a boy. A wounded, loving, anxious boy with great gifts he did not fully understand. Yet he was also a young man, close to maturity, who could do great harm. To others, yes. To himself, most of all JUDE WATSON [JEDI QUEST: THE SCHOOL OF FEAR]

“I just…” Anakin stopped. He took a ragged breath. “I thought you would be proud of me.” I am proud of you. Obi-Wan wanted to say the words. They were true. He was proud of so much in Anakin. But now was not the time to tell him that. Or was it? JUDE WATSON [JEDI QUEST: THE SCHOOL OF FEAR]

Fixing broken machines was like a meditation. Fixing broken machines was an antidote to every pain, every loss, every fear, every defeat. Fixing broken machines kept him from going mad. CLONE WARS GAMBIT: STEALTH

This doesn’t sound like some who thinks that highly of himself.

 “Master…,” he said hesitantly, “I know I’ve… disappointed you in these past few days. I have been arrogant. I have… not been very appreciative of your training, and what’s worse, of your friendship. I offer no excuse, Master. My frustration with the Council… I know that none of it is your fault, and I apologize. For all of it. Your friendship means everything to me.”

Interestingly enough, Obi-wan says it best:

You are very observant, Ferus, but you must accept that I know him better than you,” Obi-Wan said carefully. “Anakin can be arrogant. I know that. But he is also learning and growing. He is respectful of his great power. He does not abuse it. He is younger than you, but he has seen much injustice, many terrible things. I do not think it so wrong that he wants to change things. You must understand that it isn’t ambition that drives him. It is compassion. OBI-WAN KENOBI IN STAR WARS – JEDI QUEST: THE CHANGING OF THE GUARD BY JUDE WATSON

Yes. Anakin can act arrogantly. We all can. It’s part of being human and flawed. but that doesn’t mean that was ALL Anakin was. More often than not, Anakin was motivated by fear, love, kindess and, yes, even hate.

Taking them, she looked up at him and shook her head, even though it still ached. “It’s odd. You’re nothing like I expected.” “Why?” he said, perching on the edge of the nearby chair. “What did you expect?” “I don’t know,” she said, floundering. “I can’t say I’ve ever given the Jedi much thought. I mean, not as individuals. I never expected to meet one—let alone two. I don’t tend to go places where your skills are needed. But—well—you’re gentle.” That made him smile. “As opposed to what?” She swallowed the pain-tabs, washing them down with a mouthful of water. “Oh. You know. The HoloNet news—it portrays as you as this—this—heroic warrior. Larger than life. Charging into battle, lightsaber flashing. Scourge of the Separatists. That kind of thing.” She shrugged. [Karen Miller. Star Wars: Clone Wars Gambit: Stealth]

Because of Hayden’s Anakin being do disliked and, of course, because of the TCW wonky characterization everyday we are seeing more and more people embracing the idea of arrogant idiot Anakin. even if such characterization is not supported by the movies, the lore and basic common sense.

People use Obi-wan’s words in AOTC against Anakin but the truth is, as shown above, Obi-wan himself later recognizes that Anakin is not arrogant (even if he sometimes act that away). Besides, using AOTC to show Anakin’s arrogance doesn’t make much sense because of Hayden’s acting. Anakin doesn’t act like some arrogant prick for most of the movie. if anything, AOTC is a great of example of Anakin’s submissive and insecure behavior.

At last, let’s not forget that the same people calling Anakin arrogant were also facing the same criticism:

“But he still has much to learn, Master,” Obi-Wan explained. “His skills have made him … well, arrogant.” “Yes, yes,” Yoda agreed. “It’s a flaw more and more common among Jedi. Too sure of themselves, they are. Even the older, more experienced Jedi.” [R.A. Salvatore. Attack of the Clones]

People seem to forget that Anakin was in his early 20s when he ‘died’. Show me a teenager or a young adult who’ve never acted arrogantly and i’ll show you a liar. So why is Anakin the only one getting shit for that?

So, yeah, i agree. Anakin wasn’t motivated by arrogance. He was motivated by fear and insecurity, byproducts of his childhood trauma and years of grooming and emotional neglect.

[morganas-pendragons]

I Will Always Go To War To Defend ROTS Against Gen X: Here’s Why

Sounds like a stupid title, right? Well. Since Kenobi aired, my father - A Gen Xer - has repeatedly said that it’s the best Star Wars content to release since the OT back in 80’s.

He hates the prequels. Like REALLY hates the prequels.

My 20 year old brother and I have this discussion with him frequently: The prequels are the backbone to making the OT make sense, and remain some of the best piece of Star Wars media beloved by the generation it’s meant for.

And yes, I’m specifically talking about Revenge of the Sith.

My dad has claimed for years that it was ruined by cheesy dialogue (the high ground vs low ground scene is one he mentions every single time we have this convo) as well as having less then adequate saber duels. I repeatedly inform him that Hayden and Ewan have, to date, the most iconic and probably the MOST difficult saber duel in the entire franchise.

He also says there’s a lot of plot holes. I, being the only one in my family who has consumed nearly every piece of major Star Wars media, agree with him. But all of those plot holes are filled by two things in particular. The book, and The Clone Wars.

The Revenge of the Sith novelization has got to be the best novel I’ve read of all of the Star Wars novels in my library. It’s art in word form.

Case in point, a few of my favorite quotes from it:

"The rain will come, and the seeds will sprout, for the dark is the soil in which they grow, and it is the clouds above them, and it waits behind the star that gives them light. The dark's patience is infinite. Eventually, even stars burn out."

“This is Obi-Wan Kenobi: A phenomenal pilot who doesn’t like to fly. A devastating warrior who’d rather not fight. A negotiator without peer who frankly prefers to sit alone in a quiet cave and meditate.” 

And it makes the movie so much more poignant.

His biggest argument, however, is that Hayden Christensen was such a bad actor that it ruined it for him. I thus returned to inform him of how badly Hayden was harassed after the creation of ROTS and how hated the prequels were until the people who they were made for came of age and learned to appreciate them.

My best friend and I just had this conversation the other day: You really cannot enjoy Star Wars as a whole without consuming all of the available media. Yes, I too was skeptical of cartoons as someone in their early twenties, but TCW is not written for a child audience. It just happens to be animated with a mature story that fills in all the questions you inevitably have for the time between Episode 2 and 3.

The one thing that the shows do is add more depth that's not given in the movies. Depth through development of interpersonal character relationships (Anakin and Ahsoka from TCW clear into Twilight of the Apprentice) (Rex and Ahsoka) (Obi-Wan and Anakin) and enough of character development for those we know so little about - KANAN JARRUS - to make their inevitable deaths absolutely devastating.

That's what the shows succeed at. The movies, not so much.

I go on to tell my father that The Clone Wars (and begrudingly, Rebels..) fills in a lot of the questions he ends up having about plot holes and unanswered things during Episode 3. Like why Padme died, how Anakin ''fell so fast', etc.

He gets the same answer every single time.

"Your child's brain is a useless well of Star Wars knowledge obtained through the means of researching for fan fiction and now contains most answers to all Star Wars related questions you may have. No, Revenge of the Sith is not a bad movie, they just don't give you a satisfactory amount of information through the general story for you to be okay with watching it without complaining."

So, yeah. Gen Z, fight for your ROTS rights because that movie is phenomenal and needs to be defended against people who have only watched 9 movies and remain oblivious to the truth: You need to watch all Star Wars media to really grasp the overall story.

No matter how much you dislike it : )

[helbertinelli]

I don't mean to sound like I'm calling someone out because I'm not, but whenever I hear people defending Trophy Husband Anakin, Human Disaster Anakin, Incompetent Anakin, or Pet Anakin, they say it's just a joke.

On its own, it is a very valid reason, but that begs the question: why is it always Anakin?

Why do we never get jokes about Human Disaster Padmé or Incompetent Padmé (or jokes like thst about other characters)? They say that it's because Padmé hasn't done "human-disastery" things, but she has. Padmé is seen by many as strong-willed and courageous for going straight to helping Obi-Wan on Geonosis, but if Anakin did the same thing, he'd be called reckless. Through this, Padmé is turned into a Flawless Queen for doing the same things that turn Anakin into a Human Disaster.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not as mad as you think. This is just an observation of mine.

Maybe I should make a post about it sometime, hehe

I'm as mad as you think, so thank you for sending the ask.

I can't understand how they'd defend Pet Anakin, even as a joke. I mean Anakin started out as a child slave and then you go from that to making him a pet? Yikes.

Human Disaster and Incompetent Anakin have all been made worse by TCW, I bet. Because TCW made sure to portray him as being always kinda incompetent and basically a fuck up. No one respects him in TCW and Obi-Wan and Ahsoka constantly make fun of him, even when he's right. And there's also fanon!Anakin which basically convinced a good part of the fandom that Anakin is stupid and he doesn't even know the colors or how to read, when, you know, in canon Anakin is one of the most intelligent people in the galaxy.

Now, trophy husband Anakin, this gives me vibes of anti-Anidala and somehow Anidala people latched on to it. But its implications are basically that Padme doesn't love Anakin for anything else other than the fact that she can brag about his looks and she can fuck him. If people understood Anidala and understood that Padme loves Anakin (for way more than his body), they'd know that trophy husband Anakin is a pretty disgusting concept as it relates to their relationship. It also means that Padme is superior to Anakin in the relationship, which is not true and has never been true. And it turns Anakin into an object, which again, just like the Pet Anakin, it's really disturbing when you think about it. You're turning the guy who got out of slavery into an object again. Yikes!

I know some Padme fans get mad if someone even says the words Padme Skywalker or if they say Padme wanted to be Anakin's wife, so this whole trophy husband Anakin thing reminds me a lot of those people. It implies that Padme would have never wanted to be Anakin's wife because she loved him, but she would be his wife if it meant she had a toy basically that she can show off. So he's not her husband because she wants him to act like a husband, he's her husband because she wants to tie himself to her and to show ownership over him. It's extremely fucked up. I can't understand how people (especially those who like Anidala and Trophy Anakin) can excuse this or find this appealing for the relationship of Anakin and Padme.

One reason behind all those "tropes" would be that I've noticed that in many fandoms (and some canons... mainly in comics), it's cool to infantilize men and to make them act extremely submissive and harmless (they're incompetent, they're stupid, they're lost without another person to control their every decision and hold their hand at every step). I personally find it extremely disturbing. Was there no middle ground between men not respecting women and treating them as objects AND men acting like door mats and being treated like objects?

You are right about Padme being just as reckless as Anakin. She also jumps head-first into things and she doesn't even have the powers of the Chosen One or Force sensitivity. At least Anakin has something to back up his recklessness. So in a way, Padme is way more of a disaster than he is. But if you start saying Padme is a human disaster or a trophy wife (hell you can barely say she's a wife at all without some Padme fans going like "Anakin mind tricked her, she was only his wife to spy on him, GL was sexist for making Padme fall in love with Anakin"), or a pet people will get mad because they'll recognize how sexist and dehumanizing and disgusting it is to call someone those things now that they are applied to a woman. But if they're applied to men it's fun apparently.

One of the reasons I like Anidala is because they were extremely equal in so many aspects. Padme was a queen and Anakin was a slave from Tatooine, but she never treated him like he was any less than her. Despite their differences in power (Anakin being the most powerful Jedi and Padme being just a normal human), they were both extremely competent at what they did and they both respected each other's actions. And as a couple, they were both completely in love with the other and happy to be married, not because it meant ownership over the other, but because it brought them even closer together. The ROTS novelization puts it very nicely when it basically says that Anakin and Padme were one in the Force and her heartbeat was Anakin's heartbeat too, and they were so close and so in love that even when they were apart they were still like one entity. It's just so beautiful and it's really sad when people ruin their characters and their relationships with things like incompetent trophy Anakin or Chadme (which is the TCW and fanon version of Padme who hates Anakin and only cares about her job and acts like a macho man who just goes around punching everything).

Also, you should make a post about it. The more the merrier. Tag me in it, I’ll reblog it asap.

[tennessoui]

omg for the creche rivalry au do they forget they loath each other sometimes bc the kids i babysit sometimes just forget that they’re mad at each other. like! what if baby ani and baby obi are mad at each other, until snack time, where they take a short respite from their rivalry so they can share their snack and then it’s back to regularly scheduled “loathing”. (or like the kiddies i babysit used to have a thing where they hold they’re hands up in the shape of a “T” to signify they’re pausing their rivalry for a quick moment to chat as friends and then they just go back to ignoring each other??? idk if it makes sense and if it’s just those kids but it feels very much like smth obi and ani would do) also not sure if tcw happens in this au but imagine palpatine having to change tactics every other week bc he’s still trying to gauge if anakin hates obi wan or loves him

omg.....they hate each other so much but a padawan on creche duty tries to feed anakin a carrot and obi-wan storms up to her and snatches it out of her hand because anakin HATES carrots doesn't anyone know ANYTHING around here?? but he says it like 'carrots are too good to be wasted on babies who won't appreciate them!!!'

or anakin is watching obi-wan use all the space chalk and notices he's almost out of blue so he goes up to the crechemaster and he's like 'we NEED more BLUE star wars chalk because SOMEONE is HOGGING all the BLUE star wars chalk no i will NOT SHARE with someone like THAT!!!!'

anyway. just love the idea of both of them going through their lives thinking they know 2 things about the universe. 1) they are hated by the other. 2) they both have a guardian angel force being who gets them blue chalk or reserves archives books they'll need for their homework or leaves them tea packets from far away planets as gifts

and they're just so wrong about both of those things.

omg tho.....palpatine in this au??? thinks he's got the easiest job in the world because obikin rivalry is LEGENDARY. but any time he says anything even slightly bad about obi-wan anakin gets huffy and mad and storms out. but anytime he says anything slightly positive about obi-wan anakin gets huffy and mad and storms out. so he tries to just. not talk about obi-wan at all. but obi-wan kenobi is about 45% of everything anakin talks about in any AU ever, so during these times of conversations palpatine just has to vary his 'hm's and sip his tea and wonder if it would be better or worse if he just killed obi-wan kenobi himself.

[yukipri]

Bad Batch end of season thoughts/ramble, bc it's been a week and I just wanna get it all off my chest...

(end of season spoilers and very disorganized rambling)

First off, I do want to say that I enjoyed watching the show. It fulfilled its primary purpose: entertainment. It was nice having something to look forward to every week, and even though it wasn't quite what I was expecting, it was fun. The animation was gorgeous, I liked all the references and tie ins. I will likely watch it again, and will watch season 2. This is by no means meant to be a hate post.

That being said, it is critical so please just skip if you're not into that!

The thing is...it takes very, Very little for me to love a clone. He doesn't need lines, or a face, or even a name, and the default is that I will love him. He can even be a little bastard, like Slick, and it's fine. I always want to know more about them, and wish they had more screen time and time in general to develop their characters. So given that we were getting 16 (20 eps total if we count TCW S7 pilot arc) centered around these guys, I was expecting to absolutely adore them by the end.

And I wanted to love the Bad Batch, I wanted to love them so damn much, and I tried. But I think one of the reasons why they never fully clicked for me was that their thing seems to be "we're unique, we never fit in, we're outsiders in our own home, among the people who are supposed to be our own family, and so we've found our home with each other."

Which! That's usually a wonderful message, and not a particularly rare or unique one either for stories! I usually dig these kinds of stories!

The problem here is the extremely unique situation of the clones. They are literally created to be identical, brain washed to be uniform. They must conform, or are killed off by their creators, and their conformity isn't a choice in the slightest, but one of fear and necessity.

Their uniformity is something that they are also entirely aware of--it's unavoidable, they're clones. Once out in the real galaxy, they all strive to find and establish unique identities for themselves, struggling against a galaxy that just wants them to be faceless products. It's a shared struggle, and all they have are each other, and their brotherhood is sacred as a result. Shunning unique identity is the opposite of who a clone is--it's what they all want.

So on one hand, it's understandable that the Batch stuck out (when all others who would have also stuck out were culled, when individuality isn't allowed). It's understandable that they would have yearned for the brotherhood shared by the other clones, and when they couldn't have it, they stuck closer to each other. It's even understandable that they would feel bitter, having experienced bullying at the hands of the other clones (but isn't it also understandable that the other clones would feel bitter that the Batch gets special treatment, when their own brothers with less-than-beneficial mutations were taken by the Kaminoans to never return?).

And so we have this batch of clones, who the Kaminoans call "mutated," but also specify that their mutations are "desirable" (implying what happens to mutations that are undesirable...). They have their own unique unit, in which they're able to improvise and act freely with seemingly little to no oversight, so long as they complete their mission. No Jedi to obey, no nat-born officers who look down on them. In fact, they look so different from standard clone troopers that most of the galaxy probably don't even know they are clones. They have their own ship (personalized), they have their own possessions (which we don't really see any other clones have), they have their own barracks (probably also very unique), and they even have access to superior weapons and armor (most of the Batch, minus Echo, seem to be wearing modified Katarn-class armor which is supposed to be for Commandos. we KNOW it holds up better than standard trooper armor).

So I'm sure they had some unpleasant experiences growing up, and I do get it. But at least at "present" end of clone wars, they honestly seem to be living infinitely better than all other clones? They still need to follow orders but they have more freedom, and perhaps most importantly, they have clear uniqueness that is denied almost all other clones. And yes, some of the clones on Kamino bully them, but we've seen NONE of the "regular" clones that we know to be particularly nasty to them, and in fact it's Crosshair who starts it by calling them "Regs."

And how does the Batch respond to this situation? By acting superior. It's Crosshair who says and it believes this firmly, and I do feel that the others are likely mostly influenced by this, but it's also true that Hunter, Wrecker, and Tech don't really deny this either. They don't like the "regs," they do act like they're "better." Poor Echo, who they repeatedly seem to forget is in the room, and who they call "machine" and such...yikes yo

So I guess the point is, I just really struggled to feel sympathetic towards them, and was already on a kinda eh about their premise. They're marketed as "the special clone squad"--and yet they're not nice to the clones I love. I thought that wasn't great, but also hoped that the series would work towards them understanding the other clones better, and I love character development so that woulda been fine--but, nothing. A glance from Hunter at Howzer. Extended camaraderie from Gregor, who I feel they mostly just tolerate for the mission, other than Echo who genuinely cares.

And on top of feeling not feeling particularly sympathetic towards what I saw as a pretty privileged group of clones, the Batch seems to place primary blame of their woes on the "regs" themselves, who again, honestly seem far worse off! There isn't blame directed at the people who demanded the conformity from the other clones in the first place, that made it so the Batch couldn't fit in. The Batch was modified due to the Kaminoans (and implied specifically Nala Se). She's the reason why they don't fit in. And the Kaminoans are also why the other clones have to be so uniform, why they must fight to be people and not products.

Bitterness and pettiness can be fine in characters. But it's frustrating to see in a group supposed to be competent and elite, especially when those feelings have consequences. Sure, it sucks when someone throws a food tray at you. You can throw food back. It's not an equal reaction to feel no remorse when you shoot that guy dead in a blaster fight, when for all other clones, having to kill another clone is one of the most horrible, tragic things that one can do (thanks, Umbara).

Fives was the only clone to actually point a blaster at Nala Se.

We know Omega has deeply personal history with Nala Se. She was Nala Se's personal medical assistant. We see her cry when she takes off her head ornament that matches Nala Se. We know that being back in the lab gives Omega complicated, and probably not entirely positive feelings. But we barely learn more about this relationship, other than these glimpses.

And I get the feeling that to Omega at least, Nala Se wasn't all terrible. If Omega grew up with mostly only Nala Se for company, she had to have gotten her sheltered outlook on life, and her willingness to help others from somewhere. Nala Se intentionally let Omega go, to be "safe."

I think Omega's adorable, and I do like her. But I wasn't able to fully love her to the extent I wanted to, because there was always the fear that she was involved in the creation and implantation of the chips. She knows about them, she would have been positioned to do so. I want to think she would never, and I was hoping the show would reassure us of that, but it never did. We don't actually know how Omega feels about Nala Se, or even the chips and their presence in other clones. Instead, all we know is that Omega doesn't like "regs."

And again, "they call me lab scrubber," and "I helped put (or am complicit in putting) mind control devices in their heads," are kinda, unequal. Again I hope it's not the case. But it definitely kept me feeling uneasy throughout the show.

It really boils down to I don't trust or forgive Nala Se, and the Batch's lack of stance against her and the other Kaminoans, and clear distaste for their other clone brothers, really puts them in a situation that makes it difficult for me to take their side entirely.

And then gosh, Hunter. During Crosshair's whole "you never came back for me," spiel, I couldn't help but think he's kinda right. He had 15 episodes. Sure, it's difficult to get Crosshair back. But they could have done something. They could have done research. We could have had scenes of them wondering where Crosshair is, discussions on how best to find him, even if that discussion ended in, "but we can't risk it right now." They could have grilled Omega for information on the chips, which they really shoulda done either way, but especially since that knowledge is important to understanding what (they thought had) happened to Crosshair. Instead, they just ran every time Crosshair showed up. The show could have done better to show that they cared, and were trying, instead of just, y'know, doing chores for Cid. One, "I kinda miss him," doesn't really count as working on getting him back, at least in my books.

The sole exception to all of this, of course, is Echo. Who really, he works with the Batch fine, he's a former ARC and can more than keep up. Skillset-wise, he fits in well enough. But this season really made me wonder why he's with them at all. Crosshair's revelation and true feelings at the end of the season were no surprise to me, as they're consistent with what we've seen of him from TCW S7. But for Echo, a former "reg" to have to work with someone like Crosshair...even if Crosshair thought Echo was "different" enough to accept him, those are his brothers that Crosshair thinks he's so superior to, and has no issue speaking disdainfully about.

The increasing tension between Echo and Hunter, Echo's interest in helping Rex, in helping other clones, in doing something...I do hope they reach a point where Echo demands they go help, or he's leaving.

They gave Crosshair a chance, despite the fact that his choices were willing. I really hope Echo can convince the Batch to help save the other clones who don't have a choice. Because even if the Batch doesn't consider them their brothers, they're certainly Echo's. They matter just as much as Crosshair, and I really hope season 2 shows it narratively.

To conclude, again I'm interested in seeing what happens next, and I want answers about Omega and Nala Se. I find it interesting that they tied the facility where they took Nala Se in with the scientist dude collecting data on Grogu in the Mandalorian and those cloning labs. All of this is interesting, but at the same time I feel like it's trying to build up to Snoke/Palpatine stuff in the sequels which...I don't care nearly as much about, but who knows, could be neat ^ ^;

I'm okay with, and have made peace with the fact that the Bad Batch probably isn't the "clones-centric" show I wanted, and that they'll continue their own story, and probably continue to not care much about other clones in upcoming seasons. That's unfortunate, but alright. I'm interested enough in their story too.

But at the same time...I can't help but think man, if they have the time and budget to do a season 2, after seeing what was (or wasn't) accomplished in season 1...I wish they'd also make a Rex/Cody/Wolffe/"regular clones" show, because in the end, if you're going to do a "clones show"....that's who I want to see most.

If you got to the end, thank you for reading, and being an ear to my ranting ^ ^; Again this is literally just getting this off my chest. If this take isn't one you agree with, please just ignore. For people who did fall in love with the Batch, I'm happy for you, and regret that it just couldn't happen for me. But, I'm hoping that S2 will change my mind, but we'll just have to see! ^ ^;

[hellothere-generalangsty]

I HAD A BRAIN WAVE MOMENT

DO YOU REMEMBER WAYYYY BACK WHEN EVERYONE HATED ASOKA? DAVE DID THAT ON PURPOSE SO HE WAS IN CONTROL OF WHAT PEOPLE HATED ABOUT HER. OK NOW THIS MIGHT BE A LONGSHOT THAT HOPEFULLY DOESN’T END UP LIKE LONGSHOT THE CLONE, BUT, IM HOPING THATS WHATS DAVE IS DOING WITH TBB. BEING IN CONTROL OF WHAT THE FANDOM HATES ABOUT IT AND THEN IMPROVING IT SLOWLY BIT BY BIT.

PLEASE IM DESPERATE FOR A EXPLANATION!

(also where’s my explanation about why the clones are white washed, dave? hmm? where is it dave?)

OMG LOOK.

It wouldnt excuse the whitewashing or the weak scenario, because he got us used to some good stuff now (tcw s7, Mandalorian, that kind of things)

But it would make sense - to a certain extent - to work that season as a "cliché team in a cliché scenario" and see how people react to be able for a second season (if there's a second season) to improve it

_

Disclaimer: I'm a white, abled person so I'm not trying to speak on behalf of poc/disabled people, but I think it's important to support them and listen to the critics they make about SW and it's content

Also this is quite long I got carried away but worth it it is!

I linked some of @rebekadjarin 's post here because I read a bit through her blog today and agreed with her posts; and I invite you to check out the "#whitewhashed tbb" if you want more extanded and developed information about that matter! (As my knowledge on the matter is still quite limited/ incomplete due to my privileges, and this post is more of a summary than a real analysis)

_

So here, we know that the fans are unhappy about:

- the whitewashing of the Bad Batch (especially since they proved they could animate dark skinned people/ more generally poc with the first seasons of tcw, Kanan in Rebels and the Separatist in the latest TBB episode)

It is a real problem and it shouldn't have happened in the first place. Even if they are different, the Batchers are still clones and it's really not that hard to show their enhancement while keeping Temuera's features and skin colour (I mean, look at all the artists who did and do it everyday on this app; no excuse here)

Star Wars has wasted a lot of potential on numerous occasions because they keep doing stuff like this; and it's quite ironic (and very sad) to see that racism, ableism and stereotypes are prevalent in a universe where people fight for equality and peace...

Here and here are two posts about it (if you're the author of these posts and want me to delete them from my post please tell me so; I took the liberty of adding them because I think they highlight quite well the issue and do a clear job at showing the whitewashing in SW/ around the clones)

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- the way Crosshair is treated; both by the Batchers and the writers, he's manipulated by the chip yet no one is talking about rescuing him and we see nothing about the effect of his absence on the Batchers (they don't mention him, don't try to save him, and Hunter is more distraught by Omega's absence than by his own brother's)

And don't get me wrong, Omega is a kid and she's nice, of course they have to take care of her and protect her

But they also don't know her purpose; why is she here? She could be a bad omen (maybe she doesn't even know it! The Kaminoans probably didn't tell anyone about her real purpose and I stand by the idea that the infos they got about her are all wrong and purposefully misleading) and I have the dark feeling that she will be the end/ death of the Batchers by the end of the serie, even if she didn't wanted it that way

But Crosshair is never mentionned, except for when he's needed in the scenario. Which is a shame, because he's a Batcher too even if he's mind-controlled and (for now) working for the Empire. He's supposed to be a main character, and he's a key element to the plot; yet out of 10 episodes we saw him in only 3, and only the moments where he was acting bad (i'm excluding the lonely moment at the end of ep2 because it had a lot of potential about him fighting the chip but that was all we had and i'm still bitter about it lol)

Here is a post about it

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- speaking of plot; I feel like it's always the same disk playing since episode 2-3: They have a mission given by Cid, they do it, things go wrong, Omega saves the day and they get the money.

Crosshair is doing bad guy stuff so no need to tall about him (haha right?)

Now. I'm a good public. I know when to activate the Dummie™ in me and enjoy a show about a found family doing crazy jobs for a criminal and raising a newly adopted daughter at the same time. It's fun, it's sweet, sometimes it get emotional and the animation is beautiful (the lights are amazing I am always in awe)

I can enjoy it and be in awe and see Echo sniffing food and Tech smiles and Wrecker playing with Omega and feel happy about it.

But I also expected more. I hadn't any clear idea because I didn't wanted to set expectations (how ironic) but I can't help but feel sad about the wasted potential around Empire! Crosshair and the rise of said Empire.

If you want to antagonize one of the main character, do it, but do it fully and do it well. Show us Crosshair getting really invested in a plan to catch the Batchers and suddenly making a scene for a tiny detail that could blow it up; show us Crosshair and Hunter fighting each other hand to hand after they disarmed each other, and Crosshair getting the upoer hand until something holds him back; just enough for Hunter to take control again

Show us a complex character who suffers but doesn't fully realise it, and show us brothers mourning yet hoping to get the family back again you know?

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- the way Echo is treated by the Batchers. And as much as it saddens me, they do him dirty in the show.

Echo is a war veteran, an ex- prisoner and a disabled character. He went through a lot; first he lost the Domino squad, then he lost brothers on Kamino (including 99 who was close to his squad), then the Citadel happened and he lost both his legs, an arm, his freedom, his brothers and probably any hope to be saved.

Then they found him in that freezer, and he probably realised that, if Fives wasn't here to save him, it meant he lost him too.

Then he left Rex to go with a team of 4 because he probably didn't feel like he belonged with "regs" anymore; he chose strangers over brothers because he thought he couldn't find his place there. Which in itself is sad and problematic.

And now he's with the Batchers, and they don't seem to grasp the importance of his trauma. I mean; they always had the 4 of them and never lost a brother (apart from Cross; which is another wasted potential here because they could have exploited that trauma and made a parallel with Echo being so used to losing brothers and them experiencing it for the first time on such a personal level you know) and they do some crappy stuff to him.

Selling him as a droid? Not cool.

Brushing off his trauma for a mission and some credits? Not. Cool.

And Echo can't say anything because he chose them, and now he has nowhere to go anyway because Order 66 happened; and he probably doesn't want to be a burden to Rex, and he probably doesn't want to abandon his brothers especially now that Cross is gone and they have a child to take care of

But yeah there are a lot of things happening - or NOT happening - around Echo and his trauma and his disability that are wrong and people are right to talk about it

Here is a post I read and I agree with it

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- Overall, the way the show and the characters are handled; they often feel very stereotyped/ cliché and the basic plot doesn't really help for character development or improvement

I read a post about it and it was really interesting; they linked the whitewashing of the characters with their abilities/enhencement

Tech and Crosshair are the smartest and the whitest in the group (which is bad)

Wrecker is portrayed as the Bid Dummie™ and he's the one with the "darker" skin and the features closest to Temuera/ Maōri features (also very bad)

Hunter is straight up a Rambo with a face tattoo, and Echo - and you guys know I love him - is whiter than a sheet of paper (all so bad)

Not only this, but there is no improvement in their personality or thinking

They don't seem to evolve, and just like their mission, they end up playing the same song over and over again

Hunter is the broody soldier and though people enjoy talking to him as a Dad (count me in) but he's not a good dad for Omega (he calls her soldier and is always acting awkward and uncomfortable around her)

Wrecker could be a better dad for her; but again they display him as a big dummie and give the impression he couldn't take well care of her

Tech is here to be the smart one, we only see him when they need someone to do the smart speaking and the complicated computer things

Echo is the grumpy reg, the "more droid than man" and sometimes the Mom™ but they never show him talking about the Empire or the trauma or how the I am not Freaking Out™ I did came back for this Shit™ he's just here to... Be here and be grumpy and bring the oldest clone wars fans to watch TBB

And Crosshair is almost non-existent.

Here is another post about it

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What could it be then?

So either Dave is pulling a Ahsoka on us; but he'll still have a lot of things to correct and explanations to give because I can excuse a bad plot but I draw the line at blatant racism ans ableism (especially when they KNOW the fans and they KNOW what people want and they KNOW it would probably bring more people to enjoy and get invested in the show)

- If he's doing this, he will probably work with the animator to correct the whitewashing (because it really is the only really wrong thing in the animation, the rest of it is quite good to be honest like the light, framing and all)

- Understand that Tbb and Mandalorian are two different shows and cannot be treated the sale way; so he'll get back to the main plot and hopefully work on Crosshair's arc and hos his absence/ him being controlled by the chip affects him/ the Batchers/ their relation

- He'll probably work more on displaying the effect of their trauma; collective and personal, and see how it reflects on their relations (and give Echo the healing he deserves)

- By extension, give the characters more depth and complexity, dig their stereotypical surface and reveal their true nature (show me a ruthless yet easily overwhelmed Hunter; a smart but constantly anxious Tech, a very emotional Wrecker playing the big explosive dummie to protect himself, etc.)

Well, that's what I would do

Or he's just... Doing this and not planning any changes; in which case I'll probably do what I did with SPN s15: stop watching, scroll through tumblr to get some infos and gifs and tell everyone about how dirty they did the characters, and they did us.

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But I really hope he's hearing us and taking our remarks into account; the show in itself had a lot of potential and I'm still hanging on the thin hope that the ending could "save it"; but I also have no expectations and am in fact waiting for a disappointing ending

On a brighter note, I'm glad the fandom exists because I see artists and writers and gif-makers and theorists and all kind of people creating and sharing their own content, headcanons, art, writing and they all feel right and better than the canon

Like yes, give me a in-character dark skinned clone who deals with his trauma and the sudden changes around him in a realistic way

Tell me about the real effects of the war on soldiers, and the truth behind the corrupted government taking over the galaxy, and the efforts everyone has to make to survive, exist and live together

If Dave and his team cannot do it, I know you guys can and that's why I'm glad to be here too; you give me hope when they fail to do so 💙

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I hope I like... Answered this correctly? 😂 I got carried away but yeah, though I'm usually not vocal about it and try to enjoy it with my Dummie Energy™ I still see and read about what you all think, and usually I agree with you; the show deserved better and we deserved better

Now back to ignoring the canon and writing a fic about my very much alive and beloved Fives 🥰