#I never seek out het romance

[thequeenofsastiel]

Reblog the other one, please, I meant for this poll to last a week.

[olderthannetfic]

I used to think Seme and Uke were like a heteronormative thing based on a vague sense that these stories are bad with no real reason why, and the knowledge that the Uke is both feminine and literally the way in which the female audience projects themselves into the story. But now I don't understand why I ever did think that. Being a projection point for women does not mean that a character isn't literally a man actually, and women don't write characters like this to appease homophobes or perpetuate queer oppression or the heteronormative model of relationships, it's just what appeals to them personally in fiction.

I never would have suggested this about a story with a femme gay man and a masc gay man, I love stories like that and write a lot of them myself. I just sort of heard people say things that vaguely carried this implication with it and internalized that without thinking critically on it or trying to see if this fit together with my other beliefs.

--

The thing I think is missing from a lot of seme/uke discourse or slash fandom discourse is that it's not as simple as identification.

Shallow analysis tends to treat BL like a stereotypical het romance novel, which probably does a disservice to het romance novels and their audiences as well but definitely does a disservice to BL.

It appears to be reasonably common that people do identify with the bottom and not the top... But it does not follow that they're attracted to only the top.

Often, they're absolutely rabid for the bottom in a "Do I want to fuck him or do I want to be him?" way, which is an incredibly queer form of attraction whether we're looking at AFABs working out their gender issues via BL or clueless girls at boarding school wondering what all these feelings for sempai are.

One does occasionally see some of this vibe in (nominally het) stories about female characters crossdressing to enter some school/the military/etc., but it's a dynamic that's not typically present in a het romance novel of the type people seem to liken BL to. It's a very queer vibe even if the art contains a f/m ship, and it seems like a lot of fans of BL are actually seeking this in preference to something where the lines of identification and attraction are more set in stone.

I just don't think you can do any real analysis of BL without confronting this two-part attraction, but it's missing from all those "You made this one The Girl" critiques.

[dearweirdme]

Ouh! Ouh! Can I add to your response to that last anon? Cause even if their points are made in probable bad faith, this topic is actually quite interesting to me and I have things to say.

First of all, I of course agree with you, you’re born this or that way, and it has little to do with the kind of content you enjoy (even if one could argue that the supreme heteronormativity with which we are hammered since childhood, as well as the modern labels we put on human relationships, could have very well contributed to reducing drastically the queerness in each and every one of us)(but I digress, and I know I’m not being very clear about this, I could expand but that’s not my current point).

But, also, you cannot compare and more importantly put on the same level women consuming queer content and men consuming queer content. And you know why? That’s right, our everlasting dearest, patriarchy.

In a society that hierarchizes its genders and its social groups, with (white) cis het men at the top of the food chain – and a certain type of men, who have to fit to a T these arbitrary standards of what it is to be a man in fear of being demoted to the lesser categories of the population, straight men simply don’t go out of their way to look for, consume and then “promote” queer content. They just don’t. Because it threatens their masculinity – perceived by themselves and others – and therefore their status in society. If you’re a man, you have to like things for men, and queer content is… well, way too gay. So yeah, a guy recommending queer content time and time again, referencing queer artists time and time again, will give pause. Especially when he’s from a country where those gender norms and expectations are even more drastic, in this case South Korea.

Though they have many others, women don’t have that problem, because they’re already at the bottom of the gender hierarchy, thus, ironically, they have a lot more freedom in what content they can enjoy – even if said content will never be taken seriously precisely because it’s mostly consumed by women. And since there are not those restrictions on what’s proper and that fear of losing your status, they are also much more likely to seek queer content by themselves, even if they are straight (adding to that that queer content can also be a way for them to escape those soul-crushing gender norms and avoid forced identification by having a couple where they could be both people in that relationship or couldn’t be anybody at all and just enjoy the romance from afar).

On to the second point, the “observation backed up by facts”, facts are that the very large majority of tkkrs (or of any kind of fandom for that matter) are silent readers, will never participate in a visible discourse online, will never engage and will never participate in surveys and co. Therefore, you simply cannot know their age, their gender, their sexual orientation or their relationship status; your absolutes have absolutely no basis. As someone supposedly interested in psychology, you should know better.

Signed, a queer tkkr who's tired of this shit ❤️

Hi anon!

Absolutely thank you for this well informed, intelligent, knowledgeable, ask. 🫶🏼

[tokidokifish]

garashir for ship asks!!!

HELL YEAH HERE WE GO TIME FOR SOME ~CONFESSIONS~

What made you ship it?

i don't know. listen - you may think i'm being oblique. but the fact is i heard about garashir LONG before i ever got into ds9, we're talking YEARS back; i can't even remember who i knew that shipped it, because it was just that long ago. i even tried reading a fanfic, though i can't remember what it was or even where it was, because this might have predated ao3. like even before i got into the show, something about that pairing Appealed To Me. and then, of course, i DID watch the show and Whoo Boy. i mean have you SEEN them interact. i think, honestly, what sealed the deal for me - what got be truly invested - was - well, for one thing, i tend to automatically rebel against relationships that the canon WANTS to happen; even if it's a relationship i end up liking it takes me a while to come around to it bc i'm so burned out on the vibe of "he was a guy, she was a girl, can i make it any more obvious?" that so many het romances get slapped with. i'm always looking for the characters that have the most chemistry (in my opinion) and goddamn call those bitches a science department because they have maybe the most chemistry of any two characters in that show. they challenge each other in the best way! and they just LIKE each other. what a novelty! i've got my fondness for the whole slap-slap-kiss trope, but god do shows and movies rely on it way too much these days, gag. so to have these two characters which, yeah, snip at each other sometimes, but very genuinely enjoy each other's company?? sublime. love it.

What are your favorite things about the ship?

well, i think i got into it a bit with the "they just like each other", but i think i especially like that garak liked julian right from the start. like oh, yeah, garak obviously had ulterior motives for approaching julian at first, but after that he just - continued to seek out his company! i've stated it a lot in my fics but just the fact that garak alone never seemed to find julian irritating when like everyone else on the station did, even if they came around to it - like i'm not one of those people that's like "the character you see yourself most in + the character you're most attracted to is your favorite pairing" bc i think it's bullshit, but as someone who is Very Annoying and is used to driving people away, oh god the idea of being just simply ACCEPTED by someone is like. a fuckin. drug. it's honestly probably the biggest reason i have trouble shipping julian with anyone else, even though i do enjoy his relationship with miles and i especially like writing him and kira becoming close in the later seasons. and, again, the fact that garak and julian do challenge each other, and they reflect one another in such interesting ways - and, of course, they are sooooooo normal about one another even in the context of a show that WASN'T writing them as romantically involved. 's good. 's a good ship.

Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

certainly it's not unpopular amongst the garashir girlies - but obviously i consider the idea that their relationship is at all "unhealthy" complete bullshit. like i made a whole post about it. genuinely i cannot even understand the mindset - other than, of course, because garak is a "bad man" (also something i disagree with, but whatever) he cannot have healthy relationships. he's "evil", so all of his relationships must be toxic. just lol. lmao, even. i think my most unpopular opinion is that i find it VERY hard to picture them hooking up early in the series and then having a relationship on the side. like it's not a deal-breaker in terms of fics, but just not my cup of tea, yanno? i think there's attraction and affection from the get, but i think PEAK garashir happens after ips/bil, and especially after dbip, when i feel like they'd've truly come to understand one another (as much as they need to, obviously; i think a big part of the garashir relationship is the idea that garak will always have secrets and julian is fine with that (is that why people think it's toxic?)). oh also i think people who shrink the age difference are cowards. they're both grown-ass adults! let them have their 20+ age gap! it's a charm point!

[neonscandal]

Hi.....Do you mind if I ask you some random thing? I used to love shounen and shoujo manga equally....But ever since I found BL manga 3 years ago, my interest in shoujosei (especially het romance) decrese a lot, and what I search for is just the dynamic between mc (male) and male lead...I don't want to read mc (female) and male lead or mc (male) and female lead...And what I want to read for romance mostly are just mlm or wlw stories....

What do you think is happening to me? Is it really weird?

Hiiiii, anon! I don't know if my answer will be helpful or not as I can't speak to your experience or what you feel specifically sets MLM and WLW-centered stories apart from hetships.

I'll start with the fact that I don't think I'd say something is "happening" to you. People tend to just read and gravitate toward what piques their interest. The exploration of which is kinda your own thing to navigate and, subsequently, to determine what that means to you. I randomly talk about finding identity through engagement with queer media but it's not something I'd project onto a stranger. Fetishization tends to be a really harmful byproduct of the prevalence of BL specifically so, as a cautionary thing, I'd ask you to consider whether you feel that's a component of your concern.

I will say I don't think it's weird. Apparently my blog has become an open ended discussion about BL lol but my IRL friends and I, in addition to BL, try to read stories with other alternative representation, as well. For context, I'm a black woman. Growing up, none of the books I read had main characters that looked like me or stories that intimately captured my experience as a black girl that I could project myself upon. (Even so, when asked some time ago for my favorite characters, a lot of them still didn't look like me but I was still able to inherently identify with them for one reason or another). These days, you're able to find stories, shows, movies, etc. that more realistically reflect the world we find ourselves in with diverse representation of race, disabilities, gender identity and expression and orientation (just to name a few).

We still have a long ways to go but, without adequate representation, there are probably a lot of people who would never consider 1) other people's perspective and experience within a world that has a lot of systemic issues, 2) that there are other alternatives to strictly being comphet, or 3) the challenges we take for granted for differently abled people.

I'm not an expert, I'm very much still sorting myself out in every way imaginable. I am, quite literally, just some nerd on the internet with gratuitously impassioned rants about anime so my credentials are lacking. But if you need my gold seal of approval - I think you're okay. It's okay to like what you like, whether that be media wise or people wise if that's what you're worried about. (Uh.. provided its not harmful?). Drink the wine (consensually) and be less concerned with the label. Additionally, I think there are a lot of icons out there that can probably offer better guidance, if not in a Q&A capacity, still in just existing and seeking to educate others that might be cool to check out like alokvmenon on IG and maybe some books that take alternative perspectives into consideration?

[layzeal]

Hi.....Do you mind if I ask you some random thing? I used to love shounen and shoujo manga equally....But ever since I found BL manga 3 years ago, my interest in shoujosei (especially het romance) decrese a lot, and what I search for is just the dynamic between mc (male) and male lead...I don't want to read mc (female) and male lead or mc (male) and female lead...And what I want to read mostly are just mlm or wlw stories....

What do you think is happenning to me? Is it really weird?

hmm I'd like to shoot a question back and ask: why do you think it might be weird? is there any reason you feel like you have to like all types of romance?

my answer would just be... hey! you found another type of genre you like!! congrats!

while i can't say i entirely relate, since i do still love consuming media that's either mlm, wlw, mlw, etc. i completely understand where that burnt out feeling of tired heterosexual romance comes from. after a certain point, especially if you've consumed a lot from the same genre, it all starts becoming very tired very fast, so stories with same-sex partners can feel very refreshing, especially if handled in a way you particularly enjoy!

that's something that sorta happened to me, actually. in c-novels such as mdzs, yuwu and jwqs, i found the exact sweet spot of "stories about queer characters that are not about them being queer, but being queer is an essential part of it, and both their personal feelings as well as the society's surrounding them are handled in the way that appeals to me the most", and this is something that, no matter how well written the heterosexual romance is, it obviously will never be able to compare to. it is a specific type of angst and catharsis that i didn't know how much i needed until i'd finally found it!

so... nah, you're fine! you're just exploring and having fun with different types of romantic stories! no need to overthink it!!

however, if you do still miss reading straight romance but is feeling very burnt out on what you know, i'd reccomend exploring different genres, authors, stories from different countries, etc etc. get out of your comfort zone and seek something truly new! but also don't feel like you're morally obligated to it. you have the entire rest of your life to read all type of stories! enjoy the ones that are calling to you now <3

[iheartmoons]

it's funny because I don't ship Jily, have never shipped Jily, but for some reason, it and hinny remain one of the few het ships I actually like seeked out content for and had headcanons for and such. Even though I ship both characters with others and genuinely don't like them as a couple, they're just. So easy to get invested in????

other than that, invisible string by Taylor swift is one of the songs I will forever associate with Jily. what songs do you like for them?

also, do u have recs for Jily??? I'm so bored with the usual school ficsss- something post war or something where they never met or knew each other at school. would be nice to see their dynamic shine without the hogwarts setting or that past.

hope you are having a nice day!

SDKFJKDSD QUILL PLS but ur so real, it's super duper easy to get invested in them. they have a compelling story (i think) and they're love is just lovely, and a bit more of a fluffy romance compared to the rest of the fandom, which can be a nice breather. (alternatively they can be very angsty if you make them that way/write about the war/write about how they hurt each other's feelings!! which is awesome)

INVISIBLE STRING!!! yk what i've been searching up jily playlists and near the top of EVERY SINGLE ONE there's invisible string!!!!!! (also i agree)

i actually have a big playlist for jily (it's private) so i have a lotta songs that i associate with them. a few are: there she goes by The La's, our song by taylor swift, paper rings by TS, you're so vain by carly simon, everywhere by fleetwood mac, gold rush by TS, SOS by ABBA etc i could go on for a while

I DON'T HAVE JILY RECS :((( most of the ones i read as a kid were all the typical fics (aka, seventh year, forced proximity, lily realising she likes him), however i do have quite a lot of bookmarked different jily fics on ao3, BUT I HAVE YET TO READ THEM :(

hope u have a lovely day too <33

[muppeted]

3, 10 and 13 for the book asks!

ahhh tysm for asking! I’m putting this under a read more bc i got a lil out of control lmao

3. what are your top 5 books of the year?

ok I’m planning on making a separate post w my top 10 2022 releases so consider this list like. my top 5 books I read this year that were NOT released in 2022. if that makes sense. in no particular order:

-the inheritance trilogy by nk jemisin—putting an entire series as one book may be cheating BUT. also me recommending jemisin is very like. hey, did y’all know that one of the most acclaimed sf writers of our generation is uhhh….really fucking good? but oh my god she is.

-the book of atrix wolfe by patricia a mckillip—was reading this when I found out mckillip had passed away, which made for an extra emotional experience. her writing is so, so beautiful, and has had such an impact on the way I write (ok, try and mostly fail to write)/think about fantasy. this is a great standalone from her, about ghosts and curses and the magic of kitchens.

-the singing hills cycle by nghi vo—this is just like. everything I want from a series of linked fantasy novellas. if that makes sense. Like I’m such a sucker for books where the frame narrative is someone going around collecting stories, and the stories vo tells are so real, feel deeply embedded in history and mythology, love and rage. and, ofc, also very very queer and hot (who among us has not wanted to be semi-abducted by beautiful morally ambiguous tiger lady).

-ghost summer by tananarive due—one of the things I love abt due is her stories work SO well read aloud—levar burton’s podcast featured one of the stories from this book and it was such a good ep, I really recommend seeking it out. listening to her read at an event I attended a couple years ago was also amazing—the entire audience was like so tense and so with her for the entire story, it was great. another thing I love about this collection is that at the end of each story she gives some context around the writing of the story—it’s fun! I think more authors should do this w their short story collections!

-peter darling by sa chant—yes it is embarrassing that it’s taken me this long to read this. but I did! finally! and I did cry !

ok actually going through the list I cried while reading 4/5 of these despite the fact that none of them are like. stereotypical cry-y books. which could mean 1) i love books that make me cry or 2) i just cried a lot this year. probably both

10. what was your favorite new release of the year?

gonna say it’s a tie between the daughter of doctor moreau by silvia moreno-garcia and the hurting kind by ada limon. I just finished the hurting kind so that might make me a lil biased but limon is one of my all time favorite poets and this collection peeled me like an orange so ! (is that a phrase? is that something ppl say? icr)

And then the second daughter of dr Moreau was announced I was like I’m going to love this and then I did. reworking SF classics is just so completely my shit and moreno-garcia does it sososososo well. really recommend watching island of lost souls (the 1932 adaptation) right before watching this, they pair together perfectly (it;s like, one takes this base story and does something mostly shitty but still kind of fascinating/intriguing with it, and the other takes this base story and turns it into something incredible).

13. what were your least favorite books of the year?

Listen. I read so many bad romance novels this year. also a lot of really really good romance novels but. so many bad ones. i don’t want to like name names but here is a vague list:

-romance that was literally just ted lasso but ALSO the author was originally a het romance writer who had never written gay before so the sex scenes were like ‘he put his thingy in my thingy’ and it’s like maam. this is not my immortal. either say hole or leave.

-tiktok popular book that was EXTREMELY badly-written (yes this happened 3 times. it will probably happen again. I’m not even on tiktok--i’d see some non-tiktok person rec it also so i’d be like oh then it must be good ! and it never was. idk i am Charlie Brown and tiktok is lucy holding the football)

-started reading a fantasy romance and was intrigued by the premise and then they described the love interest and I was like ‘oh. this is just fantasy k*lo ren.’ i have like zero feelings on k*lo ren he just is not sexy to me so it always took me out of it and made me put the book down. also I don’t even think the books themselves were r*ylo or republished fanfic or anything I think the authors just think that character/actor is sexy. which is fine. i just am not personally into that. this also happened twice

[newathens]

oh men are horrible...... a lot of the times. a concerning amount of times even. sometimes i can't help but wonder what part of female socialization makes women seek them out so intensely even on occasions when its bound to not end well. like i have this friend (both of us bi) all of whose other friends are in horrible relationships with men. the stuff she hears from them is like. traumatizing to even think about tbh. and yet she's always talking about how she can only see her future self as either married to a man because she can't perceive relationships with women as serious OR dead because she doesn't wanna live alone. she has horrible taste in men and almost every guy she was interested in in her whole entire life turned out to be a genuine piece of shit too. i gave up on discussing it with her but it breaks my heart tbh like WHYYYYYY. why

there is comphet but i want to say it’s not just that actually when it comes to women seeking out men because for het women like it’s not just their sexuality driving them but the desire for love and companionship etc etc. women are taught to endure and expend empathy and it’s like a cycle that makes them keep trying & forgive men when these men have grown up in a society that prioritizes them so they don’t even care nor change. and a lot of them don’t want to. and it’s just fcking sucks

but in regards to bisexuality i completely get it. for me personally i have the issue of feeling not confident enough to be with women, why that is i have no clue dnt ask……but its so real. especially in a world that pushes heterosexuality to this degree, the idea of having a long term relationship with a man isn’t just abt the man. it means less pushback from family members and friends and less fear and when we live in the world like this one those become very real motivators. sorry to the romance idealizers but this is how it is. and that’s of course to say you can do all those as a closeted bisexual woman and u never tell a soul and no one knows. cause if ur with a man and ur open and share ur life as a bisexual woman with ur partner or ur family than a lot of that security does automatically disappear despite everyone who likes to act like bisexual women are fine

there’s like no easy way to have a relationship with a man, at least for women, and like i would even hesitate to say your friend has bad taste. I think it’s just the fact that het men in particular are bad partners because they have grown up in this world that says they can be that way. fathers who don’t celebrate mothers day, husbands who leave their wives when they get sick, sons who don’t participate in house chores, etc. like these are basic examples and yet they all breed the same outcome. like men genuinely are socialized to not care about women and for the women who desire relationships with men this creates a horrible outcome. and it’s sad to say that if a woman doesn’t want to be driven into the ground by a relationship than she actually does have consider if she can live life alone

[izartn]

I'm craving good het romance, as one does from time to time. Where do I find good fantasy not only romance het pairings. Where is my queer het plot!!!

Has anyone some book or manga recs? Preferably something finished please, I don't want to suffer waiting to the author to complete or abandon the story or of they're gonna be canon XD

EDIT after list is written: Okay. This post has officially become my list of what kind and why of het pairings I like. You've been officially warned. (Also a rec list of what to read/watch?) Trying to avoid spoilers.

Also more than half of this list is about teen me readings, I really need to seek out books and Manga bc wow. Very teen me, and I think that I've outgrown their canons even if the ship dynamic is also that still compels me.

I like:

CANON

El/Orion from the Scholomance. Whenever Orion gets a bit of focus I'm just. Oh wow (if you read between the lines he's so simple and so fucking unhinged at the same time). El extremely denying any vibes until last moment, but also falling extremely hard. Them both being such a battle couple/pair in general.

Whatever you can call what Agatha has going on with her two beaus in Girl Genius. They're all three of them so crazy competent and gone for each other too.

Yona/Hak and her vibes with Soo-won too (that foils thing she has with him is perfect and usually handled to male charas only, I'm biting my arm) (the loyalty thing with Hak and the way he pulls her higher too) (just the frustrated ot3 vibes of it all).

Jang Uk and Naksu|Cho Yeong in season 1. Their devoted and unhinged vibes destroyed me, I loved them. They were perfect, they only needed a bit more physicality. Season 2 defanged Yeong way way too much (in favor of uwu and blegh, let the woman cut off heads) and I didn't like the postponed angst and romance without knowing her identity.

Iron Widow OT3, which look. Wu Zetian rules even when she misses and nukes a city and everything is fantastically creepy and the guys lovely developed charas too with very different personalities and backstories

Tana and Gavriel from the Coldest Girl in Coldtown. (and this one also has threesome vibes with Aiden, uh) I like it when she is driven to do whatever it needs doing be it save her ex or her sister, or killing an ancient vampire in the company of another midly crazed vamp who is also very devoted to her and rediscovering life. Also the whole aesthetic and vibes of this one fucks.

Kate and August in Monsters of Verity duology. Dark dystopic urban fantasy and monster/human plus tragedy plus narrativelt active morally complex fem protags? I was obssesed with it when it came out.

Kaguya and Shirogane, but specifically if they weren't so innocent. Their chemistry is super fun, but I want something a bit more grown up and less teen panic. See also, me at 11 being obssesed with Blair/Chuck vibes in season 1 and 2 of Gossip Girl.

I'm on a roll. I loved Gilbert/Anne both in the 80's series and in Anne with an e. Obvious rivals to lovers where the guy respects her intelligence and she also has to have a whole arc about herself before realising she likes him.

I remember being bewitched by Lyra and Will once upon a time when I read the Golden Compass trilogy. Same re:Nathaniel and Kitty from Bartimaeus despite these two never having comfirmed anything just tragic unfulfilled potential.

Bipa and Aer from La Emperatriz de los Etéreos de Laura Gallego; theyre my fave pairing of hers and one of the only ones I didn't grew distant from as I grew out of her books. She's so practical and also kind and warm hearted, and he has the head on the clouds and is also completely out of this world in a familiar way. (this is me identitying with the guy who only appears like. A quarter of the whole novel bc he has been trying to give himself over to a lovecraftian alien soul-eater blue star while Bipa has to do all the journey to bring him back and destroy said blue star). Laura Gallego is wild.

NOT CANON

Younger me also enjoyed Artemis/Holly, not sorry at all for that one. He's so gone for her as a person and she's so out of his league (bc of their ages, bc of their species, their incompatible moralities up to the last books, etc, etc). Unfulfilled longing that makes you want to be a better person, the ship.

Soul/Maka on the other hand have super married vibes despite nothing ever being official and I love them and want to set on fire all the fic there's is about them bc it's general romcom / modern setting without that battle partnership and soul trust + domesticity I love. Also extremely teen but alas.

Yatori from Noragami bc I love tragedy specifically and human/gods relationships are fascinating. Even if it's unfinished. Even if it's out of focus somewhat.

Bellamy/Clarke from the 100 for all of the three seasons I saw before abandoning the series. The plot was unsmokeable but their relationship perfectly done. I was resigned to a boring romance with Finn and bam. Complex relationships, Clarke being bi with Lexa, parallel leaderships arcs, etc. Oh wow.

When someone bothers to write Aredhel/Celegorm on her PoV and it hits incredibly HARD. Damn. Whether aroallo or full-romo. Let post rebirth Aredhel be wild and Celegorm reckon with the knowledge of what wrong he almost brought to Luthien given Aredhel. Aredhel loving Lomion despite everything and loving disaster Celegorm, but not forgetting what they did, the awkward bonding between Maeglin and Celegorm as two former bad guys. Or them avoiding a bad ending and dying together fighting on the First Age before the Second Kinslaying. Playful times in Valinor pre-darkening.

ESPECIAL MENTION

I loved Laini Taylor characters and worldbuilding but her love at first sight kind of romances left me cool which is sad given I liked like everything else about her stories. Including the two characters involved on the romances, but not the romances per se. I guess I'm too aroace to believe first sight as anything reasonable in a serious plot even with the fairy tale vibes her stories have lol.

I also love Reylo vibes and symbolism but hated what they did on the last movie with them and I'm weirdly unable to read much fic of them. So...

[howaboutalittlehelpneos]

You don't have to be nice, I wanna hear whatever the ship name for Jaden and alexis is in your opinion

That would be

...Uh

Actually I've forgotten it

I guess I'd give it a 😐

[dangermousie]

Mousie’s absolutely subjective, very biased Top 10 web novels list

Please note that this is hardly aiming to be objective, if one can even be properly objective about a work of fiction. It is 110% based on my preferences, which means this list is heavy on the angst and has nothing set in the modern day. It is also heavily danmei-centric, even though I read way more het romance than danmei, because for whatever reason, most of the danmei I’ve read has been insanely good.

10. Return of the Swallow - one of the two non-danmeis on this list. Smart and nuanced and with a large cast of characters. Our heroine is a long-lost daughter of the family that is brought back in and has to cope with familial struggles, crazy royals, court intrigue, invasion et al. It’s SO GOOD! There is romance with the sexy smart enemy general but honestly, it’s the heroine that is the main selling point for me.

9. Transmigrator Meets Reincarnator - the only other non-danmei novel on this list, this was my very first web novel and what drew me into this insanity. This is just a ton of fun, probably the lightest novel on this list, not an ounce of angst to be found. But it’s hilarious and features competent heroine and tsundere hero and I will always love it for opening a new world to me. Anyway, our heroine transmigrates into the novel as the female lead. Unlike the original lead though she doesn’t want to seek adventures and angst - she just wants to comfortably live with the wealthy, nice husband heroine has. Alas, said husband is no longer nice since he has previously lived this story where he was betrayed by FL and then transmigrated/reincarnated into the past. Oh well, the heroine opens up businesses and makes friends. And eventually, her husband realizes his wife is way different this time around. This actually doesn’t have much romance, not until close to the end, but this is so fun I don’t care.

8. Lord Seventh - I am only partway through this so far, but it’s already on the list because it’s smart and somehow intense AND laid-back (not sure how this works, but it does) and is honestly just a really really solid and smart period novel, with the OTP a cherry on top of a narrative sundae. Plus, I love the concept of MC deciding he is not going for his supposedly fated love - he’s tried for six lifetimes, always with disaster, and he’s just plain done and tired. When he opens his life in his seventh reincarnation and sees the person he would have given up the world for, he genuinely feels nothing at all. (Spoiler - his OTP is actually a barbarian shaman this time around, thank you Lord!)

7. Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation (MDZS) - oh come on, how are you even on this tumblr if you don’t know MDZS/The Untamed? This was my very first danmei and it’s so much fun! I love everything about it - the unreliable narrator, the looping structure, the main OTP, Wei Wuxian’s laidback, traumatized insouciance, everything. Anyway, the plot in the event you somehow transported here from 2005 is that the Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation, Wei Wuxian, was defeated by the righteous sects over a decade ago and fell of a cliff to his death. Only now that same Wei Wuxian opens his eyes in another body and everything that was supposed to stay in the past starts again.

6. Heaven Official’s Blessing (TGCF) - people either love its meandering narrative, picaresque structure and cast of thousands, or find it a detriment compared to much more compact MDZS. I love it even more than MDZS for those very qualities. It does have a rock-solid, darling OTP, but what really elevates it to me are the MXTX trademark combo of snarky/light tone hiding a ton of trauma underneath, the insanely intricate world-building, and what it has to say about the nature of grace and goodness. Xie Lian is one of my top 5 web novel characters and probably in top 10 from anywhere. Oh, and while MXTX’s stuff is not as angsty for me as Meatbun’s or even Priest’s, there are always exceptions, and there is one chapter in this novel that pretty much broke me and sometimes I still flashback to it and feel unwell.

Anyway, what is it about? There is a commotion in the heavenly realm - Xie Lian, the Crown Prince of a long-destroyed kingdom, has ascended to Godhood. That in itself is not so exciting. However for Xie Lian this is the third time (!!!!) as he’s ascended and lost his godhood twice prior. And now, the biggest joke of the divine realm is back, throwing the heavenly realm into chaos. And elsewhere, Hua Cheng, one of the four most powerful demons of that Universe, sits up and takes notice.

5. Golden Stage - my perfect comfort novel. Probably the least angsty of any danmei novel on this list (which still means plenty angsty :P) It also has a dedicated, smart OTP that is an OTP for the bulk of the book - I think you will notice that in most of the novels in this list, I go for “OTP against the world” trope - I can’t stand love triangles and the same. Anyway, Fu Shen, is a famous general whose fame is making the emperor antsy. When he gets injured and can’t walk any more, the emperor gladly recalls him and marries him off to his most faithful court lackey, the head of sort of secret police, Yan Xiaohan. The emperor intends it both as a check on the general and a general spite move since the two men always clash in court whenever they meet. But not all is at is seems. They used to be friends a long time ago, had a falling out, and one of the loveliest parts of the novel is them finding their way to each other, but there is also finding the middle path between their two very different philosophies and ways of being, not to mention solving a conspiracy or dozen, and putting a new dynasty on the throne, among other things. It always makes me think, a little, of “if Mei Changsu x Jingyan were canon.”

4. Sha Po Lang - if you like a lot of fantasy politics and world-building and steampunk with your novels, this one is for you. This one is VERY plot-heavy with smart, dedicated characters and a deconstruction of many traditional virtues - our protagonist Chang Geng, a long-lost son of the Emperor, is someone who wants to modernize the country but also take down the current emperor his brother for progress’ sake and the person he’s in love with is the general who saved him when he was a kid who is nominally his foster father. Anyway, the romance is mainly a garnish in this one, not even a big side dish, but the relationship between two smart, dedicated, deadly individuals with very different concepts of duty is fascinating long before it turns romantic. And if you like angst, while overall it’s not as angsty as e.g., Meatbun stuff, Chang Geng’s childhood is the stuff of nightmares and probably freaks me out more than anything else in any novel on this list, 2ha included.

3. To Rule In a Turbulent World (LSWW) - gay Minglan. No seriously. This is how I think of it. it’s a slice of life period novel with fascinating characters and setting that happens to have a gay OTP, not a romance in a period setting per se and I always prefer stories where the romance is not the only thing that is going on. It’s meticulously written and smart and deals with character development and somehow makes daily minutia fascinating. Our protagonist, You Miao, is the son of a fabulously wealthy merchant, sent to the capital to make connections and study. As the story starts, he sees his friend’s servants beating someone to death, feels bad, and buys him because, as we discover gradually and organically, You Miao may be wealthy and occasionally immature but he is a genuinely good person. The person he buys is a barbarian from beyond the wall, named Li Zhifeng. It’s touch and go if the man will survive but eventually he does and You Miao, who by then has to return home, gives him his papers and lets him go. However, LZF decides to stick with You Miao instead, both out of sense of debt for YM saving his life and because he genuinely likes him (and yet, there is no instalove on either of their parts, their bodies have fun a lot quicker than their souls.) Anyway, the two take up farming, get involved in the imperial exams and it’s the life of prosperity and peace, until an invasion happens and things go rapidly to hell. This is so nuanced, so smart (smart people in this actually ARE!) and has secondary characters who are just as complex as the mains (for example, I ended up adoring YM’s friend, the one who starts the plot by almost beating LZF to death for no reason) because the novel never forgets that few people are all villain. There is a lovely character arc or two - watching YM grow up and LZF thaw - there is the fact that You Miao is a unicorn in web novels being laid back and calm. This whole thing is a masterpiece.

2. Stains of Filth (Yuwu) - want the emotional hit of 2ha but want to read something half its length? Well, the author of 2ha is here to eviscerate you in a shorter amount of time. This has the beautiful world-building, plot twists that all make sense and, at the center of it all, an intense and all-consuming and gloriously painful relationship between two generals - one aristocratic loner Mo Xi, and the other gregarious former slave general Gu Mang. Once they were best friends and lovers, but when the novel starts, Gu Mang has long turned traitor and went to serve the enemy kingdom and has now been returned and Mo Xi, who now commands the remnants of his slave army, has to cope with the fact that he has never been able to get over the man who stabbed him through the heart. Literally. This novel has a gorgeously looping structure, with flashbacks interwoven into present storyline. There is so much love and longing and sacrifice in this that I am tearing up a bit just thinking of it. If you don’t love Mo Xi and Gu Mang, separately and together, by the end of it, you have no soul.

1. The Dumb Husky and His White Cat Shizun (2ha/erha) - if you’ve been following my tumblr for more than a hot second, you know my obsession with this novel. Honestly, even if I were to make a list of my top 10 novels of any kind, not just webnovels, this would be on the list. It has everything I want - a complicated, intricate plot with an insane amount of plot twists, all of which are both unexpected and make total sense, a rich and large cast of characters, a truly epic OTP that makes me bawl, emotional intensity that sometimes maxes even me out and so much character nuance and growth. Also, Moran is my favorite web novel character ever, hands down.

Anyway, the plot (or at least the way it first appears) is that the evil emperor of the cultivation world, Taxian Jun, kills himself at 32 and wakes up in the body of his 16 year old self, birth name Moran. Excited to get a redo, Moran wants to save his supposed true love Shimei, whose death the last go-around pushed him towards evil. He also wants to avoid entanglement with Chu Wanning, his shizun and sworn enemy in past life. And that’s all you are best off knowing, trust me. The only hint I am going to give is oooh boy the mother of all unreliable narrators has arrived!

The novel starts light and funny on boil the frog principle - if someone told me I would be full bawling multiple times with this novel, I’d have thought they were insane, but i swear my eyes hurt by the end of it. I started out being amused and/or disliking the mains and by the end I would die for either of them.

[ladychlo]

Hi, I don’t know how old the post was because, tumblr, but I saw your post about how real people can’t queerbait and 100% agree in general but how do you think this applies to celebrities who are obviously marketing themselves but are also, real people?

Hi anon, I'm gonna try to break it down for you, and if anyone disagrees with me or has another take on it, please feel free to share it with me. well first of all the term queerbaiting is originally elaborated to critique the marketing techniques of some production companies that use homoerotic subtext to attract a queer audience using clues and hints only to deceive them afterward and throw the "no homo" at the end. you're not gonna find the term in a formal Dictionary but it was commonly used by fandoms in sites like LiveJournal here is Fanlore definition:

Queer baiting (or queerbaiting) is a term used to describe the perceived attempt by advertisers or canon creators to draw in a queer audience and/or slash fans by implying or hinting at a gay relationship that will never actually be depicted. "Queerbaiting" is most often — but not always — applied to television and film.

and this is one by Ilana Masad for the guardian:

Queerbaiting is a term that exists mostly in fan communities and refers to the writers or creators of a world (whether of a movie franchise, a book series, or a TV show) using injections of homoeroticism and romance to draw an audience seeking LGBTQ representation, while not alienating a wider audience who may not want to see a gay relationship depicted.

the harmfulness of queetbaiting is that it perpetuates heteronormativity, it shows it purposefully as if it was some kind of a misunderstanding, a joke on how queer audience is "delusional" to think that a character can be queer and basically invalidate queer reading.

queer reading is "an interpretation of discourse. It is not about finding a subtext created by the author, but rather about relating the text to the queer experience. It is, mostly, a reading from a critical point of view."

in a cis-normative and a heteronormative society, we were taught to assume straightness and cisness are the default. So whether you want it or not, you have expectations that a certain person -artist or not- is CisHet. so when that artist starts hinting otherwise, your expectations are distorted and they're contradicting the normalcy and ofc you're not gonna assume "oh they're not straight, cool" but you gonna assume they're using it for profit, dismissing the possibility of them just being queer.

the world is not queer-friendly, most social structures are inherently cis and het normative and actually in so sooo many cases is actively queer erasing. take for example bi-erasure, bisexual folks are basically under this queer erasure, and they are more seen for their "heterosexual" side which is bullshit because they're not straight they're QUEER!!

as much as you cant assume an artist is cishet you can either put them in the same level as the industry as a whole. Queerbaiting and Pinkwashing are not used for individuals, an individual is a human being who feels anger, terror, pain, love, who can think and so much more. that's why humans are by nature and culture complexes and nuanced, and can't be just reduced to mere profit. you should also see if they have sufficient advantages, resources, or power within the system to come out basically!!

assuming someone is queer is not "disrespectful" nor is it "wrong". while the definition of queer coding is also linked to the fictional characters writing. Queer coding itself as self-expression under systematic oppression is not new!! expressing one's sexuality and gender through clothes and artistic choices is something you can trace back looong long time ago, this blog made by a lesbian dress historian is VERY interesting. She analysis lesbian history through the lens of clothing and fashion!!

assuming a person might be queer coding through clothes and fashion choices, through their art and artistic creations is not something "bad", you're not delusional!! you're reading situations and relating to them. AND homoerotic interpretation is not wrong or negative.

Personally (you can disagree with me on this if you want) If someone tells me that assuming people are queer by their clothing choices or mannerism or choice of expressions and language and how they present social façade is queerphobic I will STRONGLY disagree because, self-expression through these things is a very very defining part of Queer Community, they re an important side of queer culture and as in the blog I linked above, it is very common and important for queer folks to find ways to code their appearances to express who they are in a system that does not represent them and to get noticed by people from their community.

Patterns in behavior intentional or not intentional is a real thing.

this video might help as well: The Evolution Of Queerbaiting: From Queercoding to Queercatching

reference to this

[lesbiansforboromir]

"Yet even so it was Gondor that brought about its own decay, falling by degrees into dotage, and thinking that the Enemy was asleep, who was only banished not destroyed. 

 'Death was ever present, because the Numenoreans still, as they had in their old kingdom, and so lost it, hungered after endless life unchanging. Kings made tombs more splendid than houses of the living, and counted old names in the rolls of their descent dearer than the names of sons. 

  Childless lords sat in aged halls musing on heraldry; in secret chambers withered men compounded strong elixirs, or in high cold towers asked questions of the stars. And the last king of the line of Anarion had no heir." 

Faramir's explanation for Gondor's ‘decline’ is... incoherent.. what the hell are you on about m’love?

The way this reads is so completely misleading when looking at the actual history and reasons for Gondor's receding borders and the loss of the watch on Mordor. Faramir puts the onus on Gondorian Kings wanting to live longer and not having kids... babe? Did you forget... the plague? Gondor WAS watching for activity in Mordor. For 1640 years! And then there was a plague so devastating that it turned the country’s most populous city into a near ghost town. It took 200 years for Gondor to recover, and even then it never truly reached the population levels it had maintained before. Osgiliath was never the same! And by then Mordor had taken the fortresses at the Morannon! 

There is absolutely no mention of Kings or Stewards who were desperately seeking to extend their life in Gondor’s history. Where are these tombs more splendid than the houses of the living? All the Kings not buried in Osgiliath are buried in the Silent Street... There is no mention of achingly elaborate tombs anywhere! 

There WERE however some Kings who did not marry or have children! ... Two, there were just two of them... out of thirty three. Narmacil I was Atanatar's son and reigned in the HEIGHT of Gondor's wealth. He essentially allowed his nephew Minalcar to run the country whilst he had a great time writing poetry and kissing men. And Minalcar did a really good job! He fought wars, he made alliances, he built the Argonath and when it actually came around to his time to be King, he had a nice and peaceful reign! And when his son Valacar wanted to marry a Northern Princess? Even though the worry in Gondor was that that would ‘weaken’ the King’s line and reduce their lifespan? He supported him! Gave his blessing! 

The other King who never married or had any children was Earnur! You all remember Earnur? Oh sure, he desperately wanted to extend HIS life past its natural limits! Fighting in two wars and then riding off into an obvious trap just because he'd been challenged really gives me a whole 'old man in his dotage fears death' vibe. And that was the ‘last king of the line of Anarion who had no heir’. You know WHY he was the last king? Because the King before his father Earnil II (King Ondoher) and his two sons had died! In a massive fuckall war with the Balchoth that nearly saw Gondor destroyed! PRINCE Faramir was TOLD to stay behind! But he was so anxious for his family and so wished to not simply sit and wait for death that he HID amongst the ranks of the Eotheod and went to war anyway!! AND DIED!! Asking questions of the stars??? Making strange elixirs?? Mused uselessly on heraldry??? WHEN? FARAMIR?? Was Ondoher daydreaming about stars and heraldry as he was cut down by a chariot??? Was Artamir brewing potions mid-battle?? WHAT are you talking about!!!

Where are these men fearing death who brought Gondor into it's decline that Faramir is talking about? Is he lying? No, I actually believe Faramir when he says he would not even snare an orc in a falsehood. The things Faramir says are things he believes. But then how, when he is so well known for his loremastership, can he be so misleading and plain wrong about something so basic to Gondorian history? Well I have a suggestion but it means Faramir’s at least a little homophobic so bear with me and I promise this is relevant.

So, obviously, the ups and downs of Gondor society in terms of queer liberation would be complex and rely upon a diverse number of factors. However, I’d say that, if you looked at an overall trend, it goes up in times of peace and takes a hit during times of strife. The basic reasoning for this is that one of the fundamentals of Gondorian society is the concept of doom and fate. This can give both correct and erroneous impressions of cause and effect throughout history. Gondorians tend to believe everything happens for a reason. And due to the (sometimes quiet but always present) elf-and-faithful-numenorean-ruled thinkers, who push ideas of proper marriage, celebacy, romance-superiority and other cis-het-normative agendas, the ‘reason’ that bad things happen is often blamed on the queer liberation of the times. The populace is open to being given reasons for bad things happening and Academia in Gondor is very much elf-revering, so it is often respected scholars who are pushing that narrative. 

HOWEVER, the queerness is rarely what is actually remembered or recorded in history, the wording of records are often bound up in the faithful numenorean rhetoric of ‘heretical kings’ and ‘they fell into the trap of king’s men ideology’ and so on and so forth. Scholars might understand what this means at the time, but it gets muddled further down the road and even academics in the future have trouble finding the intended emphasis. So! By the time we reach 3018 TA, the academic community as a whole has reached a general consensus that ‘the old sins of our past’ are to blame and that, whilst queerness was a part of it, it was more a symptom than a direct cause. 

So! The thought process I’m proposing for Faramir should be easy to guess at now, but I’m going to go more specific for the sake of... me uwu. 

GONDOR has not known peace for the last 500 years, not since Steward Denethor the first’s reign wherein the so called ‘watchful peace’ ended and Sauron returned to Mordor. NOW, before Denethor, his uncle Dior was the Steward and, as you’ve probably guessed, he had no children and nor did he marry. I would suggest that Dior lived through one of the most tolerant and open portions of Gondor’s history. I think he not only was open about his choice not to marry, but he also had a socially accepted partner and lived with him all his life with only a small, vocal minority voicing their objections. 

But then Sauron returned! And it was brutal, bloody and horrific. And that vocal minority saw an opportunity to use Dior’s life as a method to push Gondor once again into it’s regular crisis of conscience, faith and purpose. ‘We betrayed our founder’s’ and ‘We should have been ruled by Dior’s son but because of his weakness against his ill-fate we are doomed, he abandoned his duty! A pitiful fate but pitiful for us as well!’ And so on and so forth, there are reems of academic works written about it.

Now, this doesn’t have an immediate crushing effect on queer rights that one might fear. Denethor I loved his uncle dearly and would not hear a bad word about him, as did Boromir I! And Cirion? Cirion was almost more alternative than Dior. He sold off portions of land when the Stewards had been told to keep them IN TRUST for the king’s return. He made enduring and reciprocal alliances with the Eotheod ‘middle men’, he was very much anti-traditionalist! However, it was after his reign that Gondor truly felt the backlash of all this, spurred on by Cirion’s very alternative views, actions and methods. Because whilst he may have been an effective and charismatic Steward, Cirion had not found so much time to be a good father. And Hallas had been fifteen when his father had left him behind and ridden to war. He had a frightening and lonely childhood and was very open to the idea that his father was wrong, had gone too far, that things should be ‘brought back to normal’. Stability being key and all. The vocal minority had his ear. 

And since then, whilst opinion has still fluctuated, the constant unrest and simmering crisis of Gondor’s day to day has made progress against such concepts difficult and slow going. And it’s informed the opinion of history too, a lot more academic writing has compared Dior to Narmacil I (the first unwed and unmarried King) and has tried to find parallels between them and Earnur. Any explicit discussion of queerness has been relegated to Sindarin scripts (the language only really understood by academics and the upper classes), but the underlying tone is there HENCE! 

“falling by degrees into dotage, and thinking that the Enemy was asleep“ = Dior ‘abandoned his duty’ and Narmacil I ‘was indolent’.

“the Numenoreans still [-] hungered after endless life unchanging.” = A melding of heretical beliefs that occurred over centuries into one monolith that applied longing for endless life automatically.

“Childless lords sat in aged halls musing on heraldry; [-] compounded strong elixirs, [-] asked questions of the stars.” = This is all both reaching back to heretical practices in Numenor, whilst also harkening back to the periods of time in which Dior and Narmacil lived, peaceful times where more introspective and experimental pursuits could be indulged. 

SO! This is where Faramir’s erroneous and misleading opinions come from. And why he is at least a little homophobic. There, I told you all I’d get there. 

[discet]

So is Anne supposed to be bi/pan or a lesbian in AWIW?

She's a lesbianne in my AU. I don't really have a strong canon basis one way or the other, but here's my thoughts anyway.

As I recall Anne never shows interest in a guy in canon. She has a strong love for romance as a genre but notably does not take a side, even a casual one, in Civil Wart.

There's this bit from Cracking Mrs. Croaker

This bit from Quarreler's pass

Then there's the little blush she gets in New Wartwood when talking to Marcy (I know this has been explained recently as an animation artifact for a dropped bit of dialogue - but the author is dead and that blush is still made it in the episode regardless and directed straight at Marcy.)

Then there's Anne and Sasha's whole vibe in 3b which I am too lazy atm to seek out screenshots for.

Granted, just by virtue of the show's premise we don't see how she would interact with (human)boys her own age, so she totally could be Bi or Pan in canon (or het, I guess, since nothing was ever confirmed) but for the AU Anne's ready acceptance of her sexuality and feelings for Marcy in chapter 18 were absolutely her going through her memories and just constantly going 'Oh, that's cause I liked girls!' over and over again between the scene where she realizes her feelings and the scene in the archives at the end of chapter 18

[mermaidsirennikita]

I think there was a period of time maybe between 2014? 2015? And maybe about during quarantine where media was very uncomfortable with het romance. Probably after me too and the mainstreaming of feminism in media and culture. It’s like people couldn’t deal with having to make changes to the way romance was portrayed so you’d see less rom coms, lots of movies where the het girl ends up with no one etc. I think now the trend is starting to shift, and maybe there’s a market for HR in tv

I think there’s a lot going on with it, yeah. I’ll be really fucking blunt here.

As much as people 100% politically may back feminism and respect for women all the time, that doesn’t mean we always want media that portrays perfect people who are perfectly feminist and never step out of line and espouse the right views and don’t cheat and so on. The issue is that everyone at this time feels like they have to clarify that just because they like problematic content onscreen, doesn’t mean they like it irl!!! Or they swing to another extreme where they just say I don’t want anything problematic because that means I like a problematic character and that makes me problematic. See: the controversy over the love triangle and emotional cheating in Bridgerton. How could I POSSIBLY like Kate who is problematic??? Does that make ME problematic???

I personally think that when problematic things are intentionally portrayed with a knowledge of what they are….. go for it. Contrast, imo, the attempted softening of an abusive dynamic in 50 Shades to the incredibly over the top ridiculousness in 365. I’d honestly rather watch a criminal kidnap a woman and hold her hostage in what is clearly a romanticized kink plot, than see Christian Grey attempt to justify his abusiveness with a dead mommy backstory.

But I’m not supposed to like either, because if I like that, that means I’M problematic. And the reality is…. Yeah, I’m into it, and I’m not going to pretend I’m not because my preferences for fiction do not reflect my feelings on reality. But unfortunately, we have a lot of people creating content right now who feel that in order for a project to be successful, it must be “uncancellable”. That’s part of what I think happened with Bridgerton s2–Anthony couldn’t kiss Kate while courting Edwina as he did in the book, because then everyone would hate Anthony and Kate together. Which, lol, not true. I’m sure some would, and surely some would pretend to hate it. But in reality, many of us love problematic shit in fiction because it allows us to see the bad path not taken. It’s fantasy.

And romance? Is largely a genre based in fantasy. We like it because it can get nasty. Dark romance is HUGE. Historical romance readers often seek out older romances because they’re messier. It’s very hard to translate that appeal into mainstream fiction, imo. Not impossible…. But tricky. And I think some people are too afraid to really go there.