#I have a crush on both Cinder and Jaune

[rachetmath]

Favorite Jaune Ship

Okay, let me do this. My Jaune ships. Other ships I’ll do later.

Lancaster/SilverKnight (Jaune x Ruby);

This ship still holds a special place in my heart and to me was supposed to be one of the factors of the show. Jaune and Ruby's relationship started at Beacon. Jaune was Ruby’s first friend and was the first thought of being a part of a team besides her sister. Unfortunately, she was stuck with Weiss and Jaune had a crush on her. Ruby has times when she and Jaune talk but were always cut short for reasons. However, after the fall of Beacon, I was happy to see her and Jaune team up. But my hopes were short-lived when Weiss and Oscar came onto the scene. Now, because of them, the one relationship I could support died because the story tries its damndest to push Whiteknight and Rosegarden together. (Like seriously, this is one of the reasons why I hate Oscar to this day. Volume five, to this day, I believe Jaune should have unlocked his semblance for Ruby instead of Weiss.)

DragonKnght/GoldenKnight/DragonSlayer(Jaune x Yang);

Now normally this is a crack ship. This ship is just two people boning for almost no reason, but I can see a story behind this ship with Jaune and Yang being an alternate version of Tai and Raven. Jaune is Raven because both  have supportive semblances, use swords, and have a distaste for Ozpin’s methods. Yang is Tai due to mainly being raised by him alone. Throughout the story, we see how Jaune and Yang interact and how their relationship differs from Tai and Raven’s. How Tai and Raven fell apart and what they should’ve done to maintain it. How Jaune and Yang handle situations differently they’ll always find a way to bounce back by talking it out and giving each other space. Though I believe Bumblebee fans would be offended and probably say, “Blake could add that same effect��, I still stand by this.

SilentKnight(Jaune x Neo)

Cute, deadly, and very sad. I haven't read the book but I have heard about it. Also, I wish they made a movie starring her or gave us an episode but… okay. Back on topic, I find this ship enduring. They have only one thing in common but that's enough to create a dynamic between them. However what makes the ship sad is that Neo will be the only one hurt. Image Neo trying to be Ruby just to be with Jaune only for him not wanting to be with her. Loving and caring for Ruby more than Neo. Neo hates and becomes jealous of Ruby because unlike her Neo has no friends. Roman died. And Cinder betrayed her. Jaune probably being the best thing in her life but she will never have. So sorry folks, Silentknight was a no-go.

Topaz (Jaune x Emerald)

Same as Silent Knight except it's Emerald’s loyalty to Cinder getting in the way of her having any relationship with anyone. Jaune probably would talk to her but trusting her could be too much of a stretch for him. Emerald might as well be one of the few who could talk to Jaune one-on-one and be real with him but still, I don't think neither of them is looking to like each other.

Knightshade (Jaune x Blake)

These two never had a single one-on-one conversation. Like really they barely interact with each other. I would not be surprised if they both got drunk somewhere and were found sleeping in the same bed by accident. But I believe they are good friends.

Knightfall (Jaune x Cinder)

Okay, this can go either way. Jaune is done playing the good guy to a bunch of girls who are favored by everyone and want to destroy the world. Cinder decides to be a good person and wants to redeem herself. I highly doubt this would happen but I love the concept. Imagen Jaune has to tell Cinder to chill out all the time. Then having to be the most patient with her especially when following a plan. Cinder trying to be nice but pushing her feelings down so she doesn't show weakness is funny, sad, and insane.  

Martial Arc and Nora's Arc(Jaune x Ren x Nora)

You two do not deserve him. You had four volumes to talk with this man but you didn't. Ruby knows your leader better. Yang treats your leader better. Shit Weiss treated your leader better. Ya’ll barely maintain a relationship with each other. How will you two be in a relationship with this guy if you can't contribute or commit to it? F*** the both of you.

Whiteknight(Jaune x Weiss)

Okay, now this may be my f*** all worst ship. First, I’ll admit Jaune was just a fanboy seeing his female idol for the first time in real life. But as he continues he eventually gets over her a bit. Then in some way, he does try to get with Pyrrha, who was an upgrade. What I don't like about this ship is unlike Lancaster it feels forced. Like in volume five Weiss got stabbed by Cinder for no reason. It should have been Ruby considering Jaune traveled and spent more time with her than Weiss. And Cinder hates Ruby. Then in volume seven she basically used the man to get away from Bumblebee. And the only time she ever acknowledged this man was in volume nine when he turned out to be her favorite character in a story. I may be wrong but no, this is not my favorite.

[bestworstcase]

Took a look at the image organizer you linked the other day, and MY OH MY is there so much to unpack there. While I think I understand most of it, there's still some stuff I'm unclear about. What are those quotations from? What's Jaune doing here (and I think I remember you mentioning him as the Oz stand-in for the Ever After)? What about those scattered extra panels in the Jaune column, like Bumbleby-Adam and the maple leaf? What're the entire bottom three rows doing, what is the truth, and who is the "she" who knows it? I really need to do a rewatch...

By all means, go as overboard as you want to (or not), I just love hearing what you have to say.

the quotations are all heraclitus (there’s a link to the fragments at the bottom – the Bn tag on each quote is the fragment number) – heraclitus being a pre-socratic philosopher who had a significant influence on plato, and rwby being a story that draws heavily from plato (see also: atlas/atlantis). the philosophical ideas articulated in v9 regarding balance and creation/destruction get at concepts like flux (everything rests by changing; equilibrium is a state of constant motion and transformation, like a top which stays upright only while it spins) and strife (not conflict, but the push-and-pull between opposite forces, like the tension on a string which creates music).

i get very exited about this because it is the basis for rwby’s destruction-is-not-bad thesis; true equilibrium cannot be found without destruction because creation must have its counterweight. conflict is antithetical to balance specifically because it is a rejection of strife—it’s, to continue the metaphors, creation smashing the top because it doesn’t like that destruction causes it to spin instead of standing perfectly upright, or destruction cutting the string to free itself from destruction.

the OP specifically is about my thesis that rwby’s narrative is fractal—reflected aspects of the ozlem story repeating over and over again as this shattered fairytale strives to get it right this time. jaune (like cinder, like ruby) is a mirror held up to salem—the girl in the tower refracted in the “lovable idiot stuck in the tree”—but he’s a funhouse mirror. he’s a salem without her faith in humanity; a salem who is fundamentally cynical (he cheats his way into beacon, he wanted to be the hero to prove himself worthy to his family, he is ultimately corrupted by his rejection of change—which twists him into a reflection of ozpin instead) and thus repeatedly puts himself in the tower. and the point of him with respect to the fractal narrative is that being Good and Kind did not save him from his cynicism, and that the essential difference between salem and ozma is that she truly believes in her cause (that the gods are unjust and humanity must live free) whereas his commitment is hollow and borne of fear.

(likewise cinder is a salem whose tower is her faith, because what cinder believes in is the innate cruelty and injustice of the world and her destiny to be crushed beneath it, and she is in want of something true to believe instead; and ruby is… more or less literally who salem was when she was young)

jaune is also specifically paralleled with cinder in this regard – his time in the ever after mirrors her exile after haven, and both reflect salem’s isolation after the moonfall; he gives into despair and stagnates (like oz), cinder angrily drags herself out of the pit and keeps clawing her way forward (like salem).

(yang and blake killing adam are just there because i didn’t have a better place to note the echoed framing when cinder kills rhodes – different camera angle, but there is a striking visual comparison drawn here. the narrative does not smile on rhodes)

and then the last three rows are my unhinged mumbling about salem having met the blacksmith before in picture form. Ma’am Why Is Your Illustration Of The Human Soul A Blacksmith. What Do You Know.

like the thing is. heraclitus again: fire is arche. it is the beginning. the transformations of fire, first into sea, and of the sea half becomes earth, half whirlwind. from the outside, the tree is earth and air (the holes in the ground, the leaves on the wind) – on the inside, it’s an ethereal cosmic ‘river’ of souls flowing to their next life; and in the center, it is a forge. and this rhymes also with ‘for it is death to souls to become water, and death to water to become earth, but water comes from earth, and from water, souls’ – like

???

before she’s drowned in the fountain, salem is engulfed in dark’s flame – the flame he once used to restore jabber to life. and then she drowns and returns, with aura, now immortal. salem leaps into the pool of grimm seeking change and is transformed – the faunus in the myth she quotes immerse themselves in magical waters and are transformed. and then we have this recurring motif of a character (or symbol thereof) engulfed by flame, trees, katabasis, drownings, spiritual or physical rebirth. and salem waving the blacksmith under our noses since 2014. maple leaf carved into the frame of her family portrait – maple leafs shed by the tree – the maple leaf guiding jaune to pyrrha’s statue. it’s very

it sure is pointing in a direction!

[spahhzy]

Jaune was just enjoying his coffee. He went down to the coffee shop with his friends from Beacon, Pyrrha, Nora, and Ren.

Jaune took a sip and let out a satisfied sigh as his team all looked equally content.

*tap tap tap*

Jaune looked behind him to see... a girl his friend Ruby talked about, she was a transfer student from one of the other kingdoms.

Jaune: Hey, uh...Mint? Was it?

The girl, now identified as Mint, just nodded before pulling out her scroll and typing something before showing it to him.

Mint: My friend over there thinks you're really cute.

Jaune just blushed at the message before Mint pointed out to a young lady. She had pink and brown hair that matched with her eyes, but what captivated Jaune the most was that smile.

It was such a beautiful smile that hid something underneath. What that was? Jaune wasn't so sure.

Neo: 👋

Jaune just waved back before turning his attention back to his friends.

Ren: Was that one of the transfers? What did she want, Jaune?

Jaune: Heh, nothing, just saying hello.

Nora: Ah, see your legend as 'Doctor Leader' is making rounds Jaune-Jaune!

Pyrrha: ...

Jaune: You alright, Pyr?

Pyrrha: Yes! Of course! Let's all finish our coffee and go about our day, hmm?

She gets up and leaves without another word.

Jaune raised an eyebrow but didn't protest. He went to grab his thermos but was surprised to see it...crumpled up.

Jaune: Aww man....this was my favorite one.

Jaune just tossed his crushed thermos into the trash and paid the bill before stuffing his hands into his pockets but not before feeling a scrap of paper rub up against his hand. Pulling out the piece of paper, Jaune opened it up, to which it contained number and a note.

'Text me sometime ;)' xxx-xxx-xxxx -Neo.

Jaune just looked up from the note and back to where that beautiful lady was...only to find she had vanished.

Jaune just stared at the note again and let a big smile appear on his face.

Pyrrha: You coming, Jaune?

Jaune: coming!

Jaune stuffed the paper back into his pocket and followed after his friends.

Meanwhile, in a limousine ride...

Roman: You look awfully chipper?

Neo didn't pay attention to Roman, as she just kept her eyes glued to the window as her mind kept thinking about the boy with blonde hair and blue eyes.

Ah, just thinking about him made her head spin.

He seemed so...familiar to her, though something that would be something she would have to look into...

But, the time for pleasure would have to wait. Work came first.

The vehicle came to a stop outside of an abandoned construction sight outside of town.

Roman: Alright, Kiddo, let's go pay this potential clientele a visit and see what they have to offer.

Neo rolled her eyes as they both exited the vehicle, to which they were greeted with a girl with mint colored hair.

???: Thus, the king of thieves makes his appearance... we've been waiting for you.

Roman: Sorry, I took the scenic route on my way here.

???: Whatever...come on.

The mint-haired girl guided them for a few minutes before coming to a stop.

???: We are here.

Roman: It's just another dusty room?

Neo tensed suddenly not liking the situation they were in.

???: Just for now, Roman...this is after all, just a social call.

Came a voice from the other side of the room as out from the shadows came a black haired woman and a behind her was a man silver hair. The mint haired tour guide took her place at the side of the woman.

Roman: So, you summoned me here in hopes of offering a 'buisness' proposition' and yet I don't even know my partners name.

???: You may call me Cinder, and these are my people, Emerald and Mercury.

Roman: Charmed...now tell me...what kind of buisness do you have in mind?

Cinder just gave a smile, one that didn't reach her eyes and one that made Neo churn with disgust.

Cinder: The kingdom of Vale at our feet.

[rwac96]

Type: Ask

AU: RWBY AU

Fandom: RWBY

Summary: What If: What if Jaune was the one who fought Cinder and managed to succeed in killing her at the cost of his life?

Meme: What If Meme

The budding swordsman panted heavily, as his Aura crackled around him, signaling that he was on the verge of breaking. Jaune Arc had always wondered why his father and grandfather never pursued being a Huntsman, and now, he was figuring out why. Before him stood an ambered-eyed woman, hands engulfed in flames as she approached him. His ocean eyes shift to his shattered shield, and then towards the approaching woman, the one responsible for the siege. The blonde lets out a battle cry, charging towards the now Fall Maiden.

He met with her fireballs with each swing of his family's blade, but missed a few and felt the intense heat of those attacks. But he kept sprinting. Cinder yells in anger, as she runs towards her opponent, aiming to end the young man. Then, when the flames struck Jaune again, his Aura shattered, causing him to feel the horrific pain of his flesh burning. But despite the agony he was experiencing, he drove Crocea Mors into the woman's heart, who gritted her teeth in hatred.

"A-All that," she said as she spat up blood, grabbing the leader of Team JNPR by the throat. "f-for a rookie strike..."

"A-At least I got you," Jaune chuckled weakly, his pupils shrinking as he felt her hand growing hotter than a humid Summer Day.

The youth falls down onto his knees, as the Fall Maiden uses every ounce of her strength to perform her Semblance: Burning Caress. As flames surrounded the aspiring Huntsman, Two redheads arrived on the scene, despite the intense battle and the Wyrvern that circled Beacon Tower. Ruby Rose, Jaune's first friend, and Pyrrha Nikos, his partner, friend, and confidant, witnessed Jaune Arc's body turning an ominous orange and his entire body is reduced to ashes. All that remained were Crocea Mors, his armor plates, and a cloth of his hoodie.

"JAUNE!!!" The Gladiator recoiled in grief-stricken horror, having just witnessed the demise of her partner, leader, friend, and crush.

"...Jaune...?!" The wielder of Crescent Rose drops her weapon, as her friend's killer falls down onto her front, letting out a lowly moan that she couldn't hear. "....Jaune," tears filled Ruby's eyes, as her pupils began to glow brightly.

The winged Grimm roared, turning its attention to the two young women, as a strange orange light traveled to Pyrrha, noticing the now dead Cinder staring at her with her emotionless eyes. As the Wyvern shrieks, proceeding to charge towards the duo; intending to add more to the already large body count of the Siege of Beacon.

"JAAAAUUUUNEEE!!!" Ruby hollered at the top of her lungs, as a bright, white light erupted from her eyes, blinding both Pyrrha and the Grimm. It engulfed the two students, the dead infiltrator, and the beast in an eerie, blinding, bright silver light.

[itsclydebitches]

Something really heartbreaking to think about is that Ironwood probably thought RWBY and co allied with Salem. He sees Emerald, who he doesn’t know switch sides, fighting with JNPR as well as Winter, his lieutenant, to stop him. I really wonder what his last thoughts were. His allies turn against him, Winter betrays him, and they side with Salem. It’s no wonder he gave up.

That could have definitely been a thought Ironwood had, but only if he knows who Emerald is and I'm not sure he does? She seems to have kept a low criminal profile - evidenced by her being able to attend Beacon for the festival/Ironwood only being concerned with Roman as an agent - and during the attack she's up on the rooftops, watching the grimm do the work for them. She then heads back to Salem's lair, spends the majority of the ensuing Volumes there/visiting the occasional spot outside of Atlas, and then when she does enter the city it's via Salem's whale. I think her switching sides and leaving might be the only time she and Ironwood could have feasibly crossed paths after Beacon and, as said, she was "good" by then. Unless I'm forgetting something, Ironwood's reaction to seeing Emerald with the group would probably be less, "Omg Salem minion!" and more Volume 5 Cinder @ Jaune: "Who this?"

Which, you know, really highlights the lack of developed connections among our cast. Characters stay within their own circles and though we assume they should understand the role the rest of the cast plays because we have that information, the reality is they've never interacted, or even - as far as we know - gathered intel on them, like the Ace Ops had on Tyrian.

Regardless, yeah. Personally, I think a lot about the Inner Circle members that have joined Salem (Lionheart), or are trying to straddle the line (Raven), so when your allies show up to take you out, what are you likely to assume? Remember, Ironwood left the group after they'd already betrayed him to Robin, after someone (Cinder) managed sneak into his office, after Watts nearly took out Amity through insider access (Jaques), after Salem herself sent a grimm to tell him, 'You've lost. It's only a matter of time.' So Ironwood is already primed to look for Salem agents, based on both past and present experience, and then the group he tried to have arrested comes back.

Why would they do that? He tried to have them arrested, the Ace Ops clearly failed, they've been sneaking around the city since (Ironwood has that call with Penny)... and now they've staged an attack on him. Obviously they're trying to take him off the board, but only the audience has the full, moral picture as to why. What's Ironwood more likely to assume? That this group is stalling his plan to leave with the Relics/some survivors for two days and then personally stage an elaborate plan to take him out, all because they're just that morally repulsed by an imperfect solution that would at least somewhat hinder their mutual enemy... or that they're doing all this because they're working for that enemy?

The convoluted nature of the group's justifications vs. what Ironwood would likely assume is not only tragic, but further highlights just how Bad this all was. It's been said a million times now, but the fact that the writing (via our characters) spends a whole Volume more concerned with taking out a flawed ally than fighting the LITERAL VILLAIN SITTING OUTSIDE just really says it all to me. Do they want to do something about the whale? No, they only go there to get Oscar and the whale's destruction is a bonus no one saw coming. Do they want to fight the massive grimm army teams like FNKI are battling right outside? No, they need to rest in the mansion and watch over Nora. If they can't think of a way to get everyone out before Salem crushes them, are they willing to just let Ironwood, a city full of people, and the relics hopefully get to safety while they do what they were gonna do anyway: minor damage control, sitting around debating, and not engaging with Salem?

Nope.

Our villains did more in that Volume than the heroes did. Emerald left, Hazel 1v1ed Salem, Cinder was her normal, messy self, and Ironwood not only kept them from being overrun with his army but had a whale bomb ready to go. Meanwhile, the heroes were laser focused on fighting their own allies instead of doing anything about the baddies, right down to Qrow deciding that fighting Clover is more important than transporting/fighting/tying up Tyrian.

If I were Ironwood I would ABSOLUTELY think that the group had joined Salem, or were at least trying to play both sides like Raven did in an attempt to save themselves, because the alternative is too absurd for anyone to hit on without that omniscient perspective.

[penny-the-pissed-poltergeist]

It's time for the big one, volume 3. Starting with episode 1. warning: mild critical AKA rwde opinions

.This sunset/sunrise (I can't tell) is a very good way to open the volume, it feels like a reversed red trailer almost

.Ruby is so earnest and sweet, I could never hate her (No matter how dumb she is later)

.Is this the first time they actually mention Summer in the show itself? Because I don't remember her being brought up at all before this.

.Is Tai a 2D image here? I can't tell

.RIP Monty, sucks that people only bring up his name for stupid fandumb discourse

.Why are Port and Oobleck 1. the announcers and 2. interrupting a fight that has one of there own team involved? shouldn't they have their intro before the fighting starts?

."Age and school year are irrelevant" Are you sure that's a good idea, just giving people with multiple years of extra experience and putting them in the same pool of fighter as first year jobbers like team CRDL?

.The cutting to 2D so jarring whenever they do it, I get they don't have the time to model of all those places but still

.I spotted one person that looks like they could be part of the Marigold family and 2 people with Emerald's hair style in those 2D segments

.Reese's hoverboard guns are really cool even if She loses by literally falling on her ass

.What is this Pokemon anime ass cutting to speedlines doing in my RWBY fight

.What's-his-face malding because he's the one that decided to stand next to ice dust is just pathetic

.Ruby calling Weiss her BFF and getting shut down reminds me of how much I miss their old interactions. When was the last time we had lines like that... volume 6 I think?

.Why did everyone aside from that one guy, Ruby and Weiss just stop moving or attacking, why did no one take out what's-his-face when he was stunned? I know stuff like this happens a lot later but this is the first time I notice this cropping up.

.Considering how strong elemental Dust is when used in weapons, why does it seem like no one aside from Weiss and Blake unless it's one Dust type they decided to base there weapon around? Reese only got any because it was in the area.

."Oh she really should've worn a helmet" My brother the Christ no one in this wears wears armor unless their a loser like Jaune or Cardin

.The sick Ice construct Weiss makes has he missing her old moveset again, why did we need summons when she already had this?

.Arslan and Reese are both really cool and I wish we saw them in the arc Mistral at some point (I know their in the books but I don't care)

.This will not be the last fight that ends with a character taking out three or more people in one hit

.Ruby's screen transition is cute but Blake why are posing like that?

.I do find it funny that Weiss has what sounds like an IRL default ring tone

.That girl pockets line feels like the writers trying to hide the fact they are men writing women, also everyone's outfit feel so deliberate that I'd assume they were custom made and wouldn't have that problem

.Ruby might have the tiniest crush on Emerald and I'm here for it, show me that crush turning into the crushing feeling of betrayal, I know you won't but still.

.Neo's faker fit goes so hard for no reason, Cinder's doesn't at all

.Is sniffing boots a really way to check how good they are or is that baloney?

."Oh no, they can't eat with Mercury because he's weird, couldn't be caught with somebody like him." I don't like this! Mostly because of the whole having autism thing.

.Team RWBY voted to agree on Freezerburn supremacy

."How can they be so happy all the time" Why can't you Emerald?

.I forgot Emerald just straight up called Yang a bimbo holy shit

.That's a LOT of ramen, look at big the bowls are. that might legit be Ruby's body weight in noodles

.Does Blake know the shopkeep personally because that's not a nod you give too a stranger, also "HAHA kit liik fisheys" ugh

.Ruby so happy to see Pyrrha, that's how you know their friends because they don't get to talk to each other like ever. Weird considering what happens later

.As a Binding of Isaac player, I can attest to how effective barfing can be at hurting things

.I know it's supposed to be funny, but I can't not feel bad for Nora during her little anxiety spiral. Oh god things are going to be much worse for you :(

.Pyrrha you can't look forward to not fighting murderers, you haven't fought a single human villain yet.

."Imagine what it will be like when we graduate" You know that one thing about knowing a bomb is under the table when the characters don't... yeah that

.Why is Mercury the only person with popcorn in the whole crowd with popcorn? No one else has any

."Even if you know how a story ends, that doesn't make it any less fun to watch" I agree Cinder, why else would I be doing this?

.Ha, they're building up team JNPR V team BRNZ like it matters at all

.Kinda wish the intro didn't just straight up tell you that the heroes are losing this volume but whatever

.Once again the intro promises a Weiss vs Emerald fight that we are never getting probably. (Also proper Ruby vs Cinder but that MIGHT still happen?)

.The last shot of the intro looks the game over screen for a game called RWBY 64

[ficretus]

Power imbalance between Jaune and Cinder is something that doesn't need extensive elaboration. She is Maiden, he is mostly average Huntsman with rare Semblance.

However, that itself is not enough in context of it being Joan of Arc allusion. There are other characters besides Maidens that are symbolically royalty, like Ruby as silver eyed warrior (power derived from God which is Medieval understanding of royal power) and Weiss as heiress to wealthiest company in the world.

So what's the difference, why do I lean towards former instead of latter two? Reason is attitude: Cinder refuses to acknowledge Jaune as her equal in any way. She can't bother to remember who he is, she mocked his abilities, she stepped on him (even in dubiously canonical JNPR manga in chapter where she has crush on him, she still refers to him as second rate). On the other hand, he is friends with both Ruby and Weiss, power difference is not pronounced in any way.

I'd characterize relationship between Jaune and Ruby/Weiss as more of a knight and a princess dynamic (especially in latter's case) while between Jaune and Cinder as peasant and queen. Former dynamic is simpler to work with, however latter works better with Joan of Arc and Indecisive King allusions. In both of these stories King is unable to save himself despite all the power he has, ultimately being saved by peasant woman. Both of these stories favor drastic power imbalance because King's salvation came from the unlikeliest source.

Cinder is someone who thinks she can only be liberated through overwhelming power. However, by pursuing that path, she lost more and more of her freedom. So what if her salvation came from unlikeliest source, someone she saw as beneath her and someone who has no logical reason to help her. Indecisive King was saved by Widow who he couldn't even remember, Dauphin was saved by Joan of Arc, peasant girl from periphery of his kingdom, so why not have Cinder be saved by second rate Huntsman who forged his transcripts.

---------------------------------------------

"I must be with the Dauphin, though I have to wear my legs down to my knees. No one in the world, neither kings, nor dukes, nor king of Scotland's daughter, nor any one else can recover the kingdom of France without help from me, though I would rather spin by my mother's side, since this is not my calling. But I must go and do this work"

-Joan of Arc explaining her cause

----------------------------------------------

Essentially, all the power in the world cannot help you, only I can.

[bafflement]

Deaged Oz AU - A Delayed Conversation Or Five

Tip looked rather uncomfortable and very small, sat in a chair, trying not to meet any of his friends eyes. He was aware, of course he was, that not telling them he was alive wasn't actually the best idea he'd ever had. But things had got so complicated so quickly, and... they'd really missed him? Actually mourned? He'd thought Glynda might, but the others actually cared that much?

But no, Peter and Barty looked confused but deeply hurt and Theodore seemed to be crumpling and uncrumpling something in his hand rhythmically. Oh dear, he did hope that Theo's gloves wouldn't set it on fire. But then, maybe if they did he would be less likely to set Tip on fire, too?

Winter stood in the corner, watching the others with hard eyes, ready to step in if anyone attempted to hurt Tip at all. Nobody had said anything yet, but it was only a matter of time...

"Why didn't you tell us you were alive, Oz?" Theo's voice sounded strangely plaintive, very loud in the previously silent room. Tip just sighed, glancing up to meet his gaze.

"Would it have mattered? How can I really do anything I need to, like this?" He gestured down at his frail, eleven year old body, a challenge in his eyes. "Who would follow something like, well... this?"

"We would. Brothers, Oz, you're our friend! So what if you're tiny and adorable right now? You're still Oz and that's what matters."

Tip scowled at being called adorable, but a shadow of something crossed his face. "What would have happened, then? Beacon fell... I'm just a child, Theo... all anyone would see is a little boy."

"We would have helped." Glynda's voice was steely. "We still can, you just need to let us. We care, Oz... just let us care."

"Why, though? I failed, Glynda... Miss Nikos paid the price for my failure. I couldn't protect her, I couldn't protect team RWBY or Jaune... what use am I?"

"So you failed. We all have. You get up and try again, as you always have. You might be very, very old, Oz... but you're not all knowing. I keep telling you that the weight of Remnant is far too much for you to attempt to bear alone... it will crush you if you try."

"Salem can't die." Tip said, bluntly, nervously playing with his fingers. "I was told I couldn't defeat her. Or rather... a version was. I've been told it was a pretty stupid question, but... what if we can't?"

"Then we deal with her another way. That would have been good to know, but at least you're telling us now... why didn't you say anything?"

Theo looked like he wanted to interject, but stopped at the look Glynda was giving him. Peter and Barty still just seemed deeply confused.

"I... I was worried that it would cause people to stop fighting. To stop even trying to defeat her... to let her win. James almost did."

"That's James though, I'm not James and I'm not letting you fight her alone. We're hunters, Oz, we fight monsters."

"We do." Peter interjected, sounding grave. "I do not really fully understand what is going on right now, but Salem is a monster. You are not."

"Why ARE you a child, Ozpin?" Barty asked, eyes brightening as he bounced in his seat, acting far younger than Tip ever would, knowingly at least.

"There was a complication. When Cinder Fall tried to kill me, it backfired rather. I ended up at ten, a child in a crater. I've been reliably informed it may have taken several years off dear Qrow's life."

"Yes, well, speaking of Qrow... why didn't he tell us you were alive?"

"We were rather busy the last two years, Glynda. It slipped my mind as I'm sure it did his. Please don't be too hard on him?"

"I'll be hard on both of you. I'm still very angry with you, you know. But oh, I'm so very glad that you're alive!" Glynda rushed over, then, enveloping Tip in a tight hug. He let himself relax into it, hot tears soaking into her shoulder.

"I thought you'd hate me. That you all would..."

"We really do need to work on your self esteem, Oz... that or you need to give us a list of those that hurt you." Theo's voice was shaking slightly, though he looked furious, it didn't seem to be at Tip.

"The latter." Winter spoke up from her corner. "We need that list, uncle..."

Theo blinked at the address Winter used for Tip before taking a second, longer look at the tiny silver haired boy in Glynda's arms.

He blinked hard, then started to laugh. That broke some of the tension, Theo's laugh was deep and infectious and soon all the others were laughing too. Tip, still being hugged by Glynda, scowled slightly. He wasn't certain just what was so funny... but at least he had his friends back?

[kitkatopinions]

You know I gotta ask for Pyrrha lol

Yeah, Pyrrha for the ask game, let's go.

1: sexuality headcanon

I like to headcanon Pyrrha as a biromantic demisexual.

2: otp

Gonna have to say Pyrrha x Weiss for this one, but Pyrrha x Blake is a close second! Pyrrha and Weiss just have great potential as romantic partners, and their first season clips together so easily read as Weiss having a crush on Pyrrha and Pyrrha being like "Oh pretty disaster girl, I can fix you." XD

3: brotp

Pyrrha and Nora! I already talked about them recently, but they could be such close friends!

4: notp

Can I say 'anything involving a Jaune harem?' I don't mind Pyrrha x Jaune on its own if it's done well (in a way that doesn't treat Pyrrha as the prize to be won or Jaune's cheerleader,) but every time I see some Jaune x Pyrrha, Weiss, Blake, Ruby, Neo, Glynda, Willow, Cinder all at the same time any of that... Ugh. That's so embarrassing.

5: first headcanon that pops into my head

I saw a fanart once of Pyrrha and Neptune as kids together living in Argus, and now I love the headcanon that they went to combat school together and actually know each other pretty well. (Of course, in my headcanons, Neptune isn't nearly as sucky. XD) Oh wait, no, I want to talk about Pyrrha's parents! Because the whole monument to Pyrrha seems like something Pyrrha really wouldn't want, I've started headcanoning that her parents were the ones who fought to get that statue made but that they both never really listened to Pyrrha and had kind of pushed her all the time growing up, and were sort of similar to pageant parents. So even though Pyrrha loved them, she also had very complicated feelings towards them, and felt like they didn't know her well, which made her very eager to establish a found family at Beacon (and to latch onto possible mentor/parental figures.)

6: favorite line from this character

"I'll do it. If you believe this will help humanity, then I will become your fall maiden." This line is so good at further establishing what we already know about Pyrrha. She's trusting, she's a follower, she's kind, she's good, she wants to do the right thing because it's the right thing, she doesn't even ask for an explanation because when someone tells her that people need help and this will help, she jumps in with both feet before even thinking through the implications. It's both a sign of some flaws (it's pretty naive to trust people just because they're your teachers and some guy, it's pretty reckless to let people do experiments on you without even asking very many questions,) and proof of her deep goodness and her good intentions. Also I like to think that Pyrrha looked at Amber and felt a connection to her, something drawing her to Amber, and felt like she understood Amber in that moment even though they'd never met, and then her being so willing to take on that power and that responsibility was also for Amber and for her legacy. (Side note, the concept of Amber is slept on both in the show and in the fandom.)

7: one way in which I relate to this character

We both seem to be attracted to disaster people? Lol. But in all seriousness, I feel like I do share some minor similarities to her like her tendency to be protective (I will break his legs) and her over-polite awkwardness and slight passive aggressive tendencies. XD

8: thing that gives me second hand embarrassment about this character

The romance with Jaune. As I said before, I don't mind Arkos in theory. But the way it's done in canon? Gross tbh. They more or less invented Pyrrha for Jaune, made the majority of her story revolve around him, didn't give her real connections with other characters, used her death to prop up his character in a very fridgey way without letting anyone else grieve, and in volume six they gave her a tribute she wouldn't have wanted to remind everyone of how sad Jaune is... And Pyrrha never got any song that wasn't about her feelings for Jaune. Yikes!

9: cinnamon roll or problematic fave?

One of the only cinnamon rolls left in this show! Pyrrha may have her minor flaws, but by and large, she's a good person who tries to treat everyone well (except for Cardin the bigoted asshole bully which is a good thing) and she spent her life trying to help everyone. Rip that Pyrrha never got to connect with Penny because they would've been the ultimate cinnamon roll redhead duo.

[tumblingxelian]

I did a video on this covering how RWBY does not do 'Woman in the refrigerator' or 'man pain', but I have other thoughts to add:

As covered above, everyone is impacted by the deaths, not just Jaune.

Said character died because of how the story developed and said deaths were heavily tied to their own agency.

Pyrrha had been isolated and pressured into feeling like if she didn't become the Fall Maiden people were going to suffer, she dragged her feet & then Beacon was falling. But because she took so long, Cinder got the powers. She chose to hold the line because she felt it was her duty and it was an incredibly badass fight that still captured RWBY's gravitas heavy handling of death. Penny, I would note, has been in sacrificial mode since the start of volume 8. Anytime she had the opportunity to lay down her life, or could try and offer her life she did. Her decaying head-space regarding her own self worth and self sacrificing nature was the twin snake of Ironwood's own penchant to sacrifice everyone & everything else at the drop of a hat.

These are both intense tragedies but also major thematic and narrative landmarks in the series that emphasize the story and its efforts to deconstruct the ideals of pedestals & protagonists.

More to the point, despite her crush on Jaune, narratively, Pyrrha very much served as a mentor first and foremost. The mentor dying in a last stand against a major villain is entirely normal.

She pulled an Obi-Wan Kenobi and I wish more people saw that. This was the brightest star of her generation, the Kamina so to speak, being defeated to emphasize this breaking of the status quo.

Anyone who thinks they died for Jaune clearly did not pay attention or did not care to try engaging with the story in any meaningful way.

Honestly reducing Pyrrha and Penny's deaths to "being killed for Jaune's man pain" tells me you are watching this show with your ass. Yes, of course Jaune suffered when they died. So did Ruby, for example. In Penny's case, Ruby was actually the most affected one, not even Jaune, and Winter was deeply affected as well (people forget Penny was her only friend). Clover and Vine died too. Did they die for "Harriet's woman pain"? Because she was the most affected one with those losses (along with Qrow in Clover's case). Did Roman die for "Neo's woman pain" as well? Because she was deeply affected as well. Emerald was crying when Hazel died, did they kill him off just to show off her pain as well? Not saying at all that the show is perfect but c'mon. God forbid people let Jaune grieve and suffer after an important loss like everyone in this show does.

To me, saying Pyrrha and Penny were killed for Jaune's man pain is both incorrect and a disservice to both Pyrrha and Penny's character arcs and their struggles with destiny, choice, duty and sacrifice tbh.

[bestworstcase]

Hello! I've been wondering for a while but, considering you also thought of James = GoL, has the Salem = Qrow thought crossed your mind? With Clover as Ozma. There's been several times they have been paralleled (example: fight vs Clover = vs Ozma, plus they have the same colors) & I'm quite sure that Qrow will be the one to help the kids out and also bring back Clover. Mister "Gone. Live everybody else." has been forgotten by Cinder & everyone else and that's going to be important in the end

ok so. gotta be honest i don’t really. have much interesting to say about clover because he’s… not my cup of tea and i don’t find him particularly engaging in his own right, although the stuff the narrative does with him as the like embodiment of the atlesian military ideal is very fun and he’s a neatfoil to qrow. and now that i’ve said that yeah i can see where you’re getting the ozma repetition from, in that clover is the true believer even to his own detriment and faultlessly obedient until it kills him.

where it gets sticky imo is that ozlem is a broken fairytale and the symbolic repetitions thereof function narratively as attempts to get it right this time; that’s how we get the validation of salem’s grieving rage through ruby at the summit of beacon tower and jaune being dragged bodily out of the self-destructive spiral of his grief by his friends, and so forth. my reading of the atlas arc turns on penny being the fulcrum, the echo of ozma to ironwood’s echo of the god of light, and specifically an illustration of the divine mandate’s cruel injustice; penny is similarly torn between goodness and what she’s been told is right, between duty and desire, and very much like ozma she is ultimately crushed by the duty she can’t bring herself to walk away from—but her arc in v7-8 is all about questioning the assumptions she has been taught to make, vocalizing her internal conflicts, and being resolutely supported by her loved ones as she breaks away from ironwood.

(there are other layers to pick apart here in her death by cinder’s hand […pun intended i am so sorry] and jaune’s unwilling participation in ending her life in order to deny cinder what she wants from this murder, but in the interest of not going off on too long a tangent—)

anyway as the ozlem repetitions angle pertains to qrow and clover, i read them more as abstracted embodiments of the divine conflict: here is a mirror. good fortune on one side of the glass and misfortune on the other. (except they’re the same, because whether luck is good for you or bad for someone else depends solely on how you look at it.) good fortune bolsters misfortune as long as they’re on the same side but is also so disconnected from anything beyond the scope of the rules, the correct order of things that he chooses to attack misfortune, his friend and until minutes ago his ally, above recapturing the sadistic serial killer actively trying to kill them both—and his rigidity and refusal to listen to reason leaves misfortune with no recourse but to side with the serial killer. and when this predictably ends in tragedy it’s portrayed genuinely as a tragedy—not good fortune getting what’s coming to him, but a tragic, pointless ending to a life worth indescribably more than the inhumane rules he sacrificed it for. the anger qrow briefly expresses towards him is hollow, grieving, not really a condemnation of clover himself but a bitter repudiation of the world that made him.

it’s all very *waves hands* on theme, but in a direction that strikes me as pointing more at the gods (whose fundamental problem is the arbitrary and inequitable dichotomy they’ve forced themselves into and the inflexible order the “good” one enforced, to everyone’s detriment including his own) than at ozlem; consider how clover’s earnest if subtly condescending initial support of qrow and its corruption into calmly enforcing order by any means necessary suggests the way the god of light addresses his brother. there’s, again, some layers to pick apart in qrow and clover both also being staunchly loyal to causes to which they are literally (clover) or figuratively (qrow) subordinate, but that’s true of the repetition of divine conflict played out between ironwood and watts, too, and at the end of the day coercion and self-sacrifice are so crucial to what’s going on with ozma that i don’t think you can have a symbolic repetition of him without those elements; merely being subordinate to a higher power of any description is not enough, imo.

what does interest me quite a bit about this angle on qrow—and robyn, who in this layer of the narrative embodies dark’s second gift of knowledge—is that both of them survive the fall of atlas and do not leave solitas, which if it proves symbolically meaningful at all is an intriguing thing to do with a metaphor for what happens if ozma fulfills his mandate. creation (ironwood) and choice (cinder) destroyed atlas, destruction (qrow) and knowledge (robyn) are left behind to pick up the pieces… plus whatever pietro and maria will be up to, and cinder and salem in the event that they don’t leave right away. the natural point of convergence for all these characters is amity, which is a) still falling, b) something salem is lightly implied to have been interested in hijacking and using herself, and c) something salem would probably be able to haul back into broadcast range if she cared to—and of course notionally the point of amity was to bring the world together again. so THAT’s all hamster wheeling in the back of my brain.

[spahhzy]

Call~

-

Jaune sheathed his blade away as the last of the white fang were stopped and restrained.

Looking behind him, he saw Blake hugging her teammates before looking towards him and nodding at him.

Jaune nodded back and gave a smile.

It seems Blake had decided to tell her team the truth.

Good for her.

"Jaune?" Came the voice of his partner Pyrrha.

"Pyrrha! Are you alright?" Jaune asked her a concerned look on his face as he looked up and down for any signs of damage.

"I'm fine, Jaune, no need to worry, though I'm afraid Nora had sustained some injury, but Ren is seeing to her now, although it looks like she will need some medcial treatment from Vale hosital." Pyrrha said, and Jaune nodded.

"Alright, good"

"What about you, Jaune? You took a nasty hit for that mech, " asked Pyrrha, concerned as well, but Jaune waved off her worries.

"It's nothing my aura couldn't handle," Jaune said before motioning to the ambulance carrying Ren and Nora.

"Pyrrha, go with Ren and Nora to the hospital, I need to stay around just a bit more and make sure no white fang grunts are still lurking before Atlas military comes in and cleans up" Jaune told her but Pyrrha seemed hesitant at this idea.

"Wouldn't it be better if both of us were on guard here?" Pyrrha asked, and Jaune nodded.

"Yes, but if some grunts are still stragling, they could use any of the weapons here or stashed else where and do some major damage, that's why I need you up and mobile to protect everyone including our teammates." Jaune said with a smile as he put a hand on Pyrrha shoulder.

Pyrrha, seeing the look of trust in Jaune's eyes, nodded and made her way to the ambulance in which Nora and Ren were in before nodding to her leader.

Jaune nodded back before turning to look back at the docks.

Blake and the rest of Team RWBY had left the scene as well, not wanting to get caught up in any questioning that Ironwood would undoubtedly want to ask.

Walking to the center, Jaune just looked around at the destruction as he could hear the sound of incoming squad and heavy armor vehicles arriving to the scene.

Jaune breathed in before giving a whistle.

It didn't last long five seconds at most, and then it was complete silence, other than the waves splashing against concrete and the rapid beating of his heart, Jaune could only hope and prey she was alright, he didn't know how involved she was in the little rally, hell he wished she had no part, Roman neither but we'll they really got the short end of the stick with this 'client' they're working with.

Jaune locked his lips and was ready to whistle again when all of a sudden...he heard a whistle sound right back to him.

His heart jumped for joy in hearing it, and his smile grew brightened.

Jaune didn't turn to the direction of said whistle he didn't need to.

She was safe.

That was all that matters.

With that, Jaune decided too make his departure.

-

Up in the roof tops above, a pink and brown haired individual traversed silently, narrowly escaping the failure of that rally.

Stupid plan.

Stupid people.

Stupid client.

Stupid stupid stupid.

Now she just wanted to get back to the safe house and rest, Roman got out safely, which was good, but still...

That mech tried to crush Jaune.

Her heart hurt a bit at that, but she knew he could handle it. He is her knight, after all.

Still, even if they needed to make it look convincing. 'Hurting' Jaune wasn't something she actively was looking to do, stupid Cinder.

Making sure the coast was very much clear, Neo prepared to make her escape. The valley may have been a failure, but it didn't stop Cinder from advancing her plans, and apparently, the next phase was coming soon that needed her. So, she had to keep a low profile.

Getting ready to leave, Neo prepared to flee when she heard a whistle echo throughout the area.

Neo's eyes widened.

She recognized that whistle!

She peeked around the wall and smiled to see down below Jaune, in the center, using their little call to each other.

He was making sure she was safe.

Aw.

If he could see her now, she would definitely be teased for the little sprinkles of red on her cheeks by him.

Neo whistled back in their special call, letting him know she was okay and safe.

She watched as he left the scene and prompted her to leave as well.

-

The whistle is from Lobo's/Deaths from Puss in Boots: The Last Wish.

Jaune whistles the first half (Are you safe?).

Neo whistles the 2nd half (I am safe).

-

[greatwyrmgold]

Ruby et al journeying to several small villages absolutely undermines the idea that, quote, "every attempt to build additional settlements outside of the five or six big population centers is almost 100% percent guaranteed to get turbofucked out of existence within a year by armies of monsters". There are additional settlements outside those big population centers, and Ruby didn't expect them to have been turbofucked out of existence by the time she got there.

Yang (seemingly) breaking Mercury's leg is an exceptionally bad sports foul, but it should not have put Vale in greater danger than Volume 2's climax. I agree that that event would cause a lot of negative emotions, but I do not believe for an instant that those negative emotions would be unusually intense, certainly not more intense than the negative emotions from a bunch of Grimm getting released in the middle of town.

Let's go over the events of said climax. RWBY is in a train crash. They get knocked unconscious for an indeterminate amount of time, probably a few minutes, but definitely long enough that Grimm are rampaging through the streets. Those four freshmen fight the Grimm on their for a while, then backup arrives.

(I've hard this argument before and seen some of the counterarguments, so let me add: if you think that the amount of episode time we see RWBY fighting without backup is equivalent to the time it took backup to arrive, you must also agree that the Grimm horde was such a flimsy threat that it took less than ten minutes to stop them.)

I'd like to point out that a horde of Grimm getting released into downtown Vale, past the town's defenses, while the Huntsmen were all elsewhere, is both a very similar situation to Cinder's actual plan and very likely to cause negative emotions. Even if most people didn't find out about it until after it was over, it would shatter their sense of security. I refuse to believe that one person breaking another person's leg on live TV would cause more intense negative emotions.

write segue

In the aftermath of Volume 2's climax, Yang points to a single crushed bakery as a reason they might not "get extra credit". If Yang's priorities aren't horrifically skewed, that's probably the worst damage the Grimm did. Ruby says "a lot of people were hurt," but it's in a "yes-and" way, not a "who the fuck cares about one bakery" way, so there probably weren't dozens of deaths. Again, this attack bypassed Vale's defenses.

Volume 2 made it impossible for me to take the Grimm seriously as a threat. And it's not just the limited damage which makes me say that. We see Coco effortlessly slaughter a flock of Nervermores that look as big as the one RWBY struggled to defeat back in volume 1, which reinforces the idea that our freshmen heroines aren't even close to their true potential. We see Jaune slaughter a massive Ursa single-handedly. We see a ton of very cool violence without the good guys being seriously challenged, just like every other time huntsmen fight Grimm, except they're horribly outnumbered this time.

That's not a fatal flaw for RWBY, of course. It's only a problem if later parts of the series rely on the Grimm being a serious threat. But, well...

So, my understanding is that in the backstory of RWBY's setting, the major world-war analogue that produced the start-of-canon political order was fought against an authoritarian movement dedicated to suppressing emotion and individuality as much as possible, under the logic that the Grimm feed off emotion and maybe that would help suppress them. (The fact that every single named character has such an aggressively curated personal aesthetic is also intended to be part of the ongoing cultural backlash against that regime.) Now on some level this is a very aesthetic worldbuilding beat, platonic faceless-regime-vs-forces-of-individuality vibes-based stuff. But on another level I think this is actually an interesting example of a setting where the in-universe ideologies are allowed to notice and be informed by the genre-typical loosey-goosey fairy-tale logic. "Regime dedicated to hating emotions and fun" would be a lazy caricature in our world but follows pretty logically as an idea someone would eventually have if they were constantly under attack from armies of sadness-fueled murderwolves. It's not necessarily a metaphor, it follows from the presented premise!

[juanarc-thethird]

School Romance

At Beacon Academy

Jaune and Sun walk down the hall and run into Vernal and her friend Cinder.

Jaune: *Smiling* G-Good morning Vernal.

Vernal: *Nods*

Sun: As always, you're nice to her. She doesn't scare you?

Jaune: Not really, and well, she's my classmate. We have to get along. (Vernal looks so wild and so tough. She is so cool~💕) *He has a huge crush on her* (But I'm the simple and clumsy boy in the class. She would never notice me.)

On the other side

Cinder: Well look at you...He greets you with such a friendly smile and you only respond with a nod, how cold of you.

Vernal: Whatever. (Damn it! He always so kind, so calm, so polite… he's so cute~💕!) *She also has a huge crush on him* (Me on the other hand, I look like a delinquent with no future, I'm sure I'm the type of girl that he hates the most…)

Jaune/Vernal: *Both sad* (Surely there is no place for this love.)

At that moment Jaune and Vernal stop.

Sun: Jaune? Why did you stop?

Cinder: Vernal?

Jaune: *Turns back* (No!)

Vernal: *Turns back as well* (I don't know that yet!)

Jaune: *Walks towards her* (I have to...)

Vernal: *Walks towards him* (...at least try.)

The two of them walk towards each other and they stops. For a moment there is silence, but then they both raise their voices

Jaune: Vernal!

Vernal: Jaune!

Jaune: *Blushing* You see me as normal and simple, but I like rude and tough girls, who have a wild look like yours! You are my ideal girl!!

Vernal: *Blushing* You are so responsible, serious, calm and very kind! And that's why I like you!!!

Jaune/Vernal: I know it's sudden but will you be my-

Jaune/Vernal: Girlfriend?!/Boyfriend?!

Jaune/Vernal: *Both red* WHAT?!/W-What?!

And that's how they started dating.

[ficretus]

My dislike towards Pyre theory Knightfall

I feel like being negative today. Disclaimer of course, I am not attacking anyone whole believes in this theory, just my thoughts about it, which are mostly negative.

First of all, what is Pyre theory? It's theory that Maiden powers behave the same way as Ozma's reincarnation curse. Whenever Maiden dies, next one inherits the soul of previous Maiden, behaving similar as Ozma with his reincarnations. This would mean that Pyrrha's soul is within Cinder and it will eventually fully resurface. There are of course interpretations where Pyrrha just defeats Cinder internally and takes over the body, but I'll focus on Knightfall interpretation of this theory which implies Pyrrha will help redeem Cinder and story will end with Jaune/Pyrrha/Cinder (but not really since two of them share the body).

____________________________________________________________

With that out the way, let me start with what I think makes no sense with the theory. First, if it behaves like Ozma's curse, then the original version should be the one reincarnating, not subsequent ones. Meaning, if Fall Maiden powers behave the same way as Ozma's curse, then Cinder would have the soul of original Fall Maiden in her body, not Pyrrha's.

Even if we ignore that and say Maiden powers behave differently than Ozma incarnations, why would it be Pyrrha? At no point in the story is Pyrrha fully fledged Maiden. Cinder absorbed half of Amber's Maiden powers in flashback, leaving her as empty husk. She then proceeded to interrupt transfer process in Volume 3. And when she did so, it is heavily implied she took all the power with Amber's death. So at most, Pyrrha had just smidge or no Maiden powers at all. So logically, if the theory is correct, the one in Cinder's body should be Amber's soul, not Pyrrha's.

We've also never seen this happen in canon, despite meeting several Maiden characters. Raven doesn't show any indications of having another soul within her despite being Maiden for years. And I wouldn't read too deep into Penny's last words to Winter, since that feels like more of a figure of speech than anything. You wouldn't be bidding someone final farewell if your soul is gonna pop up in their body in near future.

_____________________________________________________________

So far, it seems pretty illogical to me, but let me focus on what is often presented as smoking gun. During the fight with Jaune in Volume 5, Cinder avoids seriously injuring Jaune and instead decides to impale Weiss with the spear. Both avoiding injuring Jaune and using spear to impale Weiss have been interpreted as Pyrrha's soul within Cinder subconsciously protecting Jaune (and attack on Weiss as Pyrrha's lingering resentment because Jaune's crush on her).

This to me doesn't work. First of all, I feel like Cinder not hurting Jaune fails hard on Occam's razor. There are so many interpretations more plausible than "Pyrrha's soul is stopping her". Maybe it's arrogance because Jaune is not a threat to her, maybe it's sadism because she wants him to witness his friends' demise (and she knows she won't get any pleasure from his death since he has no will to live), maybe it's caution since she doesn't want to trigger Ruby's silver eyes, maybe that JNPR anthology chapter is canon and she thinks he is cute, and so on. My point is that it's a stretch.

Cinder using spear might seem odd, but then you realize she often copies tactics and moves from her opponents. Relatively recent example is her copying Fria's Maiden power vortex at the end of Volume 8. It's also different looking spear compared to Milo.

I don't wanna even entertain prospect of Cinder impaling Weiss as "it's Pyrrha". Because if that's the case, that has to be the biggest character assassination in the show. Pyrrha going from selfless to the fault to "I am gonna stab that bitch because she is too close to Jaune". If there is indeed Pyrrha inside of Cinder subconsciously affecting her actions, there is no way she'd drive her to behave as stereotypical yandere. Besides, Cinder's backstory gives us enough explanation why she hates Atlas and anything Atlas related.

Whole Volume 5 argument feels incredibly wonky to me and seems to rely on stretching events to fit what you want them to fit and outright character assassination.

______________________________________________________________

There is also an argument that Pyrrha hasn't resurfaced yet based on Salem's faction's shock at realizing how fast Ozma reincarnated. However, I feel like that simply takes away any supposed evidence theory had and puts it on hold until further notice.

To me, this theory feels like something that needs lot of build up. You can't just suddenly reveal in theoretical Volume 11 "oh, Pyrrha was there the entire time". As it is, there is no any foreshadowing. You can argue I am being hypocritical here since I theorize Knightfall as plausible endgame scenario despite that also having almost no build up so far. But here is the thing, this is even more complicated version of Knightfall. This requires set up of Pyrrha being established as being inside of Cinder and Pyrrha and Cinder coming to terms with each other before even going towards Knightfall. And considering story is slowly approaching it's climax (or I guess not approaching looking at recent developments), I feel like there is not enough space for all of that to happen.

_____________________________________________________________

Ok, but even if I ignore all inconsistencies with established powers and say it's possible to cram all these plot developments within 4-5 volumes without feeling rushed, I have to ask, is it necessary? Is Pyrrha being inside Cinder necessary for her redemption and potential romance with Jaune? I'd say no.

Pyrrha's story doesn't hit any particular beat that makes me go "if she had a talk with Cinder she'd be able to help her". At most, you can go with "power won't make you happy" angle. Pyrrha had status and power her entire life, yet she didn't feel truly happy until she met Jaune. She could try to reason with Cinder to make her see the truth. However, I don't think Pyrrha is necessary for this. Not only is Cinder becoming more and more miserable which could make her see this on her own, she is also bound to Relic that makes user see various futures. Cinder seeing doomed future of her quest for power via Relic of Choice is significantly simpler and likely way to do it.

On the other hand, you have Jaune, who is almost mirror to Cinder. Both have deep self worth issues connected to their perceived weakness. Both also experienced bullying because of it. However, Jaune always had someone to pick him up and help him, while Cinder was alone most of her journey. Cinder is what Jaune could have been if he had nobody to support him and vice versa. To me, Jaune is almost perfect character to reach out to Cinder, while Pyrrha feels inferior to various other main characters (Ruby, Yang, Blake) in that regard. If they want to redeem Cinder, "ingredients" are already there, there is no reason to dig up Pyrrha's corpse (or urn I guess) to do it.

______________________________________________________________

There are also multiple narrative casualties of this theory, besides Pyrrha's potential character assassination if Weiss' impalement was her doing.

First victim is Cinder. Common aspect of her story is lack of choice and control. First fifteen years of her life she was either abused in orphanage or enslaved by Madame. She quite literally had no control over her circumstances. Then she becomes agent of Salem, giving her illusion of control and letting her roleplay as huntress, something she perceived as most free profession one can have. However, in aftermath of Volume 3, she is grimmified due to her sustained injuries. So now, she has both limited control of her circumstances and her body.

But then comes Pyrrha, worming herself inside of Cinder, something Cinder cannot control. So all previous losses of control were treated as bad thing by narrative, however, this one is treated as something positive. So character that is supposed to be about breaking free and making her own choice is being redeemed by losing control over her own mind. Am I the only one that thinks this would be beyond weird? Oscar is another character losing his sense of self due to sharing his body, but this is not treated as a good thing. If Pyre were to happen, this creates hypocritical narrative that it's bad when your friend is having his mind taken over, but it's good when your enemy has their mind taken over.

However, I feel like Jaune is bigger victim of this theory. First of all, his character gets stuck in permanent state of always relying on Pyrrha. You know that phase of the story when Jaune considered himself worthless because Pyrrha was gone and he tried to martyr himself? Well, it appears he wasn't wrong. This resolves Jaune's rivalry with Cinder by having Pyrrha jump in to save the day, proving he indeed never grew as a character. Be it Jaune redeeming Cinder or helping to defeat her, these scenarios at least showcase Jaune's character growth. He won his own way, relying on his own strengths and talents. Having Pyrrha appear to save the day regresses his character back to early volume days.

Additionally, this is pet peeve I have with certain people regarding Knightfall. Basically, people go "oh I can't ship this, she killed Pyrrha" or opposite "this AU is fine because she didn't kill Pyrrha in it". Of course, you can ship whatever you want and dislike whatever you want, this isn't shipping police. Pyre theory to me feels this way. It's okay to ship them now, because Pyrrha is technically alive and they have her blessing. And I feel this would make Jaune weirdly hypocritical. People seem to forget Cinder killed way more people than just Pyrrha and hyper focus on her. Jaune forgiving Cinder in scenarios in which Pyrrha is definitively dead is significantly more powerful. It turns him into almost ideal hero that is willing to extend his hand to someone who hurt him beyond reasonable measure. Pyrrha being alive kind of undermines that. Cinder's biggest sin is erased and Jaune is now okay with her. After all, she only killed bunch of minor characters, she didn't kill his partner.

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That's enough rambling for today. I might come overly negative here, but I don't think Pyre theory is completely bad. What Embers Remain on fanfiction.net is one of my favorite Knightfall fanfictions, and that's technically Pyre theory. However, I dislike narrative implications this theory would have if it were to happen. Although I don't think I've seen any serious Pyre theory speculations in a while, so theory might be dead and this post was just multiple paragraphs of beating up a dead horse.

Either way, what are your thoughts on Pyre theory?

[nerdlydelicious]

What’s the best ship, and why is it White Knight?

Good question! Well obviously the answer is because best girl + best boy = best ship. It’s simple math.

But to give an actual answer to your question: Jaune and Weiss didn’t have the best start in knowing each other. Jaune came on a bit too strong out the gate, and kinda shot himself in the foot by not easing back on the throttle and just trying to get to know her. Weiss on the other hand thought Jaune’s interest in her stemmed from an interest in her family. Obviously we know that wasn’t the case, but it shows that Weiss has had to deal with that very thing a lot, and that made her jaded towards boys who made an advance on her. Why she didn’t give Neptune the same cold shoulder at first… I dunno, so don’t ask me.

But of course, Weiss learns that’s not the case at the dance and she realizes that Jaune really does care about her.

And that’s one of the reasons why I love White Knight so much. Their relationship, regardless of whether it’s platonic or romantic, didn’t start out on the right foot like it did for Ren and Nora, or Yang and Blake. Jaune and Weiss started Beacon rough around the edges in their own ways and they wound up grating against one another. However as time passed we saw that she warmed up to him, and he eased off. From Weiss complimenting him in the Vytal tournament, to the two of them sitting side by side at the dinner table in Haven, to him saving her life and the little moments of him looking out for her, to her accompanying him and Oscar to the movies, to Weiss putting a hand on his shoulder and smiling proudly at him when he helped Penny, and of course the two of them being the last to fall into the Void, it is clear that any awkwardness between the two of them has long since vanished. Despite how they started Jaune and Weiss have grown beyond those awkward days. Though the moments between them are small and almost background material, I still think they’re significant and bear weight, and shouldn’t be disregarded.

And there’s other reasons, of course. There are certain narrative elements that connect. Cinder wounded Weiss to torment Jaune, and Jaune unlocked his semblance, an aspect of who he is, trying to save her. Sure, Cinder chose her because her aura was broken at that point, but from a story writers standpoint the fact that it was Weiss, the girl he had a big crush on back at Beacon, who was chosen to be why he unlocked his semblance and not someone he was arguably closer to like Ren, Nora, or even Ruby speaks of intent on the show writers’ parts. They meant for that to happen, for them to have that moment. And with how volume 8 ended and what I think might happen in volume 9, they’re going to have some more moments of closeness, and I hope that this time Weiss will save Jaune from his greatest enemy: himself.

And, to finally wrap up my mini rant about my feel good ship: there are parellels and similarities in their backgrounds. They both come from a proud and old lineage. Weiss is trying to redeem hers and fix the damage caused by her father, while Jaune starts Beacon trying to live up to his family legacy. There’s also the fact that they fit nicely into the ‘knight and princess’ trope that I’ve always been a sucker for, though she’s certainly no damsel in distress.

TL;DR I like White Knight because they’ve both grown a lot throughout the show and have shared important moments together as well as having narrative connections and parallels. Also, they’d be very cute together.