#I get that she’s a nuanced person but I personally will not forgive her for all the other stuff she did | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

cinnbar-bun · 11 months ago

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Watching Reality TV With You (Various One Piece Characters x Reader)

Characters: Zoro, Sanji, Trafalgar Law, Luffy, Perona + Mihawk, Nami, Kizaru/Borsalino, Eustass Kidd

A/n: Sorry I’m a huge fan of Real Housewives so take these silly headcanons!!!

Note: GN reader, the relationships with the character(s) and reader can be seen as platonic/romantic depending on what you prefer :) Mihawk + Perona’s relationship to each other is also not stated just for your personal preference. These are all just very silly things, don’t take this too seriously since it’s crack!

Zoro

“The hell? Why are you watching this crap? It’s not even real!”

He just sighs and grumbles about how this is dumb the whoooooole time.

Tends to sharpen his swords or try and nap while it’s on.

Until lowkey he starts peeking a bit like ‘did she just say that?’

Suddenly has opinions on it and tries to deny he’s interested but his eyes are GLUED once they start arguing and the suspenseful music is playing.

“Well, if I was her, I think I’d just kick them. Or maybe cut their car in half.”

Sanji

Opposite of Zoro. The man is probably a bigger fan than you and most likely is reading the gossip online.

It’s your weekly night hangout where he brings snacks and cozy blankets for you two to sit and enjoy while watching.

Gasps audibly and loudly.

He’s both the best and worst to talk about this with because he respects all women and he forgives them for everything, so they all get passes from him.

“Yes she may have talked badly about [name] and stole [name]’s house and maybe crashed a car. But we all do that. We need to show forgiveness. She’s having a tough time- her dress came in the wrong color.”

Law

Like Zoro, he’s very disturbed by the very prospect of reality tv.

But he’ll try. Let it be known he’s trying.

He doesn’t get interested in it but he does try to follow along so he can discuss it with you.

Not gonna lie though he’s the guy who’s focusing on their plastic surgery or illnesses.

Will literally pause the show just to examine what they may/may not have done and if the surgeon botched it up.

Imma just manifest this, he’s prolly a Terry Dubrow stan.

“Who’s your favorite Housewife so far?” “Terry.” “But… Terry isn’t-“ “It’s Terry.”

Unironically would drop a horrible quote from whichever show you’ve been watching and he’d say it so seriously that everyone’s jaw will drop and it takes him a sec for him to realize what he said.

Luffy

Imma keep this short for you- he ain’t looking.

He ain’t caring.

No thoughts.

He only cares when there’s a party and food is being served.

“Woooooah! Look at all that food!!!”

Doesn’t even recognize who is who and will just mindlessly wait for food to come on screen.

Perona + Mihawk

I’m putting this as a two for one they’re my everything <3

You and Perona are the ones who watch it lots. Perona does complain about how much they argue but she loooooves looking at the houses and clothes of the women. Makes comments about wanting to fly first class or visit the beautiful places they go to.

Mihawk is reading.

Perona is biased as hell and only defends the people that are wearing cute clothes. Otherwise? Shit list.

“Ugh! What is that dress?! It’s so hideous!” “Is that all you’re focusing on?” “I agree with (Y/n), Perona, she just had gotten into some relationship troubles with [name], so I think [name] is wrong.”

You and Perona are gasping and shocked that Mihawk 1) talked and 2) had an opinion on this???

Turns out the man had been listening the whole time (he’s quite the multitasker).

If Perona is the most biased viewer, Mihawk tries to remain objective and impartial. He's always listing out the nuances of a conversation.

“I think [name] is just jealous.” “Well, if we remember in season 4, episode 14-“

He’s a smart ass sometimes, but it’s okay, he’s our smart ass.

Perona is always enthusiastic about marathoning the shows again and watching it. She tends to do dress up requirements for watching it.

Nami

I’d hesitate to call Nami a “fan” of reality shows.

She’s aware of them, yes. Does she particularly care for it? Nah, not really.

They’re more background noise and eye candy for her.

She just likes putting them on and glancing every once in a while to gaze at the beautiful houses and trips.

“Oh that’s so expensive… imagine what you could do with all that!”

Sometimes has a fun game for herself to estimate the cost of an outfit, accessory, or house. It’s scary how accurate and detailed she can get with it.

Tends to mostly focus on fashion and get new ideas to steal- I mean, incorporate.

Doesn’t have strong opinions on the cast, but she isn’t too crazy about the louder members.

Kizaru/Borsalino

He’s heard of it, he thinks.

And, well, since you’re so into them, he’ll give it a watch.

“Oh my, these ladies are incredibly wealthy and beautiful.”

He’s not even ogling them he’s just amazed at the way they dress, behave, and/or decorate their spaces. It’s almost like being starstruck???

The guy who will pause the tv at certain scenes to point at random decorations or outfits and be like “darling, would you like that?”

He does get sad when they start to fight.

“Aw… I was just liking the party… why are they arguing now?”

His favorite cast member is your favorite one <3 he’s just a cheerleader like that, dear.

He could listen to you talk about it for hours if you wanted, and he’d be amazed by your knowledge.

“You know, if you’d like for me to have you be on a show like this, I could probably pull some strings!”

Kidd

1000000x worse than Zoro

I cannot recommend putting it on in front of him.

“The hell is this shit?! Turn it off!”

You refuse and now he’s stuck watching grown women argue over dumb things (in his mind).

Complains the ENTIIIIRRRRE time. Nonstop commenting and complaining.

Okay but he’s hooked after a bit, the drama is just too good.

But now he’s WORSE cuz he’s got OPINIONS and THEYRE ALL SHITTY!

This man is an instigator. I swear to god he’s just saying shit just to rile you up and be contrarian.

He's stanning the biggest menaces on the show.

You two will probably get into (very silly) arguments about some of the situations and people.

And unlike say, Sanji, who tries to defend a person, Eustass will just say you’re wrong and then add something unhinged to it.

“Naw you just don’t get it. If I was her, personally, I think I’d just burn their mansion down and then slash their tires.”

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stop-breaking-my-heart-telltale · 12 days ago

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Y'know, it's unfortunate more people don't compare Louis and Violet in good faith.

Like, when I do see people compare them, it's usually through the lens of one is good, and the other bad. One is more canon than the other, and here's why. One is objectively better for Clementine, and the other is less impactful, worse written, didn't have chemistry with her, insert several insults here, etc.

I don't think it's inherently bad to express why you might not like one of them, or why you prefer one over the other. That's fine, that's a matter of opinion. It only gets to me when it becomes hostile, or passive aggressive... but even then, I've learned to just roll my eyes and move on. Some people make it very clear that they're not worth having a discussion with.

However, I wish I could read more nuanced comparisons of the two that didn't default to the "and that's why this one is better." At least some are kind enough to tack on a "for my Clementine" at the end.

You know how it goes: Louis is cute and he makes Clementine laugh, whereas Violet's boring, her love is shallow, she's still not over Minerva and she's using Clementine as a rebound. Violentine's a bad ship because Violet's actually a traitor, and they're practically the same person and that's bad.

Violet's loyal and reliable, whereas Louis is annoying, he never takes anything serious, he's a traitor for his vote, and he's nothing but a distraction. Clouis is a bad ship because how could any Clementine possibly like him after he voted her and AJ out? That's bad!

That's always the conclusion, right? One good, one bad.

This is incredibly limiting and it drives me nuts.

They're foils. They contrast one another, highlight each other's strengths and flaws, in such an interesting way that it makes Clementine's choice between them all the more meaningful.

One is not good and the other bad, they're different, and I think that's worth exploring.

Let's start with a common argument: Violet is the more impactful option due to her connection to Minerva.

Now, to be fair, I can understand why someone on Team Violet would believe this. Yes, it's true that the confrontation with Minerva is more impactful for a violentine shipper who has more investment in Violet as a character. Louis doesn't have as strong of a connection to her.

However, what they're failing to recognize is that Minerva isn't the only ghost to haunt this narrative. Violet may have Minerva, yes, but Louis has Marlon... and that doesn't just go away once Marlon's dead.

Violet's route has Minerva as her ex-girlfriend, and her bond with Tenn that all comes to a head on the bridge. Louis' route has Marlon's death and how that specifically impacts his relationship with AJ and Clementine, and the slow burn of forgiveness on all sides.

Marlon and Minerva are also reflective of Clementine's worst outcomes.

Clementine and Marlon were tied together through Brody's blood splattered on their hands and faces. They both killed a part of Brody, but only one of them lies about who killed her first.

After Marlon dies, Clementine gradually replaces him throughout the game; Rosie is her dog now, she uses his bow [which Louis gave her], she becomes the leader. Clementine gets them to fight back, and when three of her people are captured, she doesn't cut her losses. She does what Marlon couldn't; "we're getting them back."

When she chooses Louis, he does for her what he never did for Marlon: he steps up.

Clementine proves she won't become Marlon just as she proves she won't become Minerva.

After getting James to agree to help them, Clementine and AJ talk about what to do if she ever gets bit. AJ says he'd want her to bite him, too. He repeats this sentiment after she's actually bitten, telling her he wants to stay and they could turn together, peacefully.

When Minerva confronts them on the bridge, she's dying... and she wants Tenn to die with her. She doesn't care who she has to kill in the process. She's more monster than human at this point, and most times, she succeeds.

They're both bitten. Clementine could've become a monster like Minerva in the end. She could've killed AJ, and they could've become walkers together. But she didn't. Minerva wanted Tenn to die for her, and Clementine wanted AJ to live for her.

Also, I should mention she has Minerva's axe. She carries the key weapons associated with Marlon and Minerva throughout different points in the game, further solidifying these connections. She uses Marlon's bow to save her friends, and she uses Minerva's axe to save AJ, who in turn uses it to save her.

What's also so interesting about this is how Marlon's alive in episode one, and Minerva is thought to be dead. Louis has his best friend, and Violet's lost hers. But, at the end of the episode, Marlon's dead and Minerva's revealed to be alive.

Marlon becomes the ghost, and Minerva becomes the monster. Clementine becomes to Louis and Violet what Marlon and Minerva never could... how does that not drive anyone else insane?

So, no. One is not objectively better, or more impactful, because of a connection to Marlon or Minerva. They're different. It just depends on which storyline you personally find more compelling.

Actually, let's talk about that a little more.

In my opinion, the most intriguing point of comparison between Louis and Violet stems from their perceptions of survival, and how that impacts Clementine.

An argument I see made against violentine is that Violet's boring because she and Clementine are too similar. This usually comes from clouis shippers who prefer the "opposites attract" dynamic Clementine and Louis have.

On the flip side, there's the counter argument that Louis is reckless, that he doesn't take survival as seriously as he should and Clementine wouldn't want him because of that.

These are interesting to me because I get where they're coming from... but they ultimately miss the point.

The other day, I replayed TFS. Except this time, I did something a little bit differently. I played my usual clouis route, but then I had the violentine route pulled up on my laptop so that I could watch these scenes, comparing them side by side… and something occurred to me.

Louis is about challenging Clementine's perception of survival, and Violet is about validating it.

Louis challenges Clementine from the very moment we meet him—he’s playing music. His initial philosophy on survival butts heads with Clementine’s. The fact that hunting with him and Aasim challenges your perception of “your choices have consequences.” These games have conditioned the player to think along the lines of, “Yeah, Louis is more fun… but if I don’t hunt with Aasim, we won’t have any food.”

Except that’s just it. I hate to say it, Aasim, but in the grand scheme of things… hunting with you doesn’t matter. It's actually less rewarding. You know why? Because in the next section, we get food from the train station. It would’ve been more beneficial to spend time with Louis over hunting, hence how he challenges you.

This then primes you for the choice between choosing to follow Louis or follow Violet. I know people complain about how this is presented with Violet doing something productive [checking the walls] and Louis playing piano… but that’s the point. If you’re going through with Louis’ full route, you need to meet him at his level, and in turn, he will meet you at yours. You need to accept the challenge, the idea that Clementine isn’t entirely right about the way she’s gone about survival.

Oh, and do I even need to mention the vote? The debate over Louis’ vote is exhausting. Often times, people tell on themselves in how they talk about it. It’s not actually about the fact that he voted against them. If it was, these people would have a bigger bone with pick with Mitch, Willy, Ruby, and Omar… and yet Louis is the one who takes all the blame as if he’s the only one personally kicking them out.

Louis is reacting to the death of his best friend, and the complicated feelings that come with it being caused by AJ. He wants accountability, even if he knows something's wrong. You can either agree with him that it was murder, and set AJ on the path of atonement… or, you can double down and tell him to fuck off, AJ was justified.

But here’s the thing… the vote adds to the appeal of Louis’ route. To someone who hates him, or at the very least is critical of his vote, that sounds mad or delusional.

Except it’s really not.

Ever heard of a thing called tension? Because there’s a lot of it in ep2 between clouis + AJ and it’s fantastic.

Yes, Louis voting them out is problematic because we need a problem to solve. We need something to feed the tension between him and Clementine. He stepped in front of a gun held by his best friend in order to protect her, forever changing their relationship… only for that to seemingly be taken away from us the moment AJ shoots Marlon.

Yes, Louis’ route is about being challenged, but it’s also about challenging him. That he’s able to forgive them, that he’s able to question his own survival philosophy and understand theirs, that he’s able to apologize and actually change for the better… that right there is what makes clouis so damn good.

He becomes hardened whereas Clementine softens. By the end of the game, they’re on a similar level now without neglecting their differences, and they can move forward together.

That’s what makes Louis’ route appealing… and it’s also what makes it unappealing to people who prefer Violet.

By contrast, Violet’s already on Clementine’s level when it comes to this perception of survival. She validates that Clementine’s on the right path.

They have other similarities in the way that they’re both female, queer, they both have a kid they look after, they’re not always great with other people, etc.

People who prefer Louis might consider this boring, but I think to Team Violet, it’s comforting. It’s comforting to have a partner who takes this as seriously as you do, who wants to get shit done. They’re playing Clementine with a similar attitude, and don’t believe it needs to be challenged. It’s comforting to feel validated on something you already firmly believe in.

We also see this if we compare the hunting and fishing scenes. You have to make an effort to choose Louis by choosing to neglect hunting, but the game makes you fish with Violet no matter what.

Violet’s prioritizing fishing because they need food. That’s what they’ve set out to do, so let’s do it. The game is letting you know that’s the case, and if you value that, continue pursuing her.

While fishing, they discuss why things are weird with her and Brody. Violet doesn’t take well to Clementine’s blunt, “Because you make it weird. Brody tries and you just make fun of her."

That’s understandable because I think she already kind of knows why and is looking to have her feelings validated. She prefers it when Clementine suggests that it’s because Brody never said sorry for what happened to the twins.

There’s also comfort and validation in the way Violet sides with Clementine and AJ after Marlon’s death. She votes for them to stay, vocalizing how much she disapproves of the results. There’s this feeling that I recognize from a lot of the sapphic romance I read; “it’s you and me against the world, I’ll always have your back, even if you’re in the wrong, I’ll fight for you.”

In our case, it’s violentine + AJ against the rest of Ericson, save Tenn and Aasim. Violet validates that AJ was justified because Marlon was a liar and murderer, claiming that AJ and Clementine did nothing wrong. Violet fights to keep them.

The tension between violentine in ep2 is different because instead of one pushing the other away, they’re being forced apart by the vote and there’s nothing they can do about it. That tension is somewhat released when Clementine comes back and they’re reunited, working out a plan to best defend the school.

It’s also why Violet’s presented as doing something productive when you follow her instead of Louis, and why she asks if you want to hang out after checking the defenses.

All that being said, allow me to reiterate that one is not good and the other bad, they're different. These concepts of challenge and change/validation and comfort exist on a neutral road as diverging paths. It’s up to the player to pick what path they prefer, but that doesn’t mean the other path isn’t worth acknowledging or analyzing.

I should also mention that they’re not exclusive; there is overlap with validation being present in Louis’ route and challenges in Violet’s. They’re just more present in episodes 3 and 4 after we’ve made our decision.

There are several more examples of how this all fits together, buuuuut–

Ya’ll wanna compare some allegories?

Those familiar with my content might already know where I’m going with this as I’ve made a post about Louis and the piano in the past.

You see, I believe that there are allegories for Louis and Violet’s hearts present in their routes: Louis’ piano, and Violet’s pin.

I already have a thorough, in-depth analysis of Louis and the piano that you can read, so all I’ll say about it is that on the night of the raid, he asked Clementine to carve a piece of herself into his heart so that no matter what, their initials will be immortalized together in its wood…

And that makes me fucking feral.

But I'm also so normal about it.

As for Violet, her heart is the star gazing pin she gives to Clementine. She gives it to her so she’ll always remember that night… but she doesn’t give it to her until after Clementine’s saved her, and that fascinates me in the context of it being allegory.

Louis asks Clementine to carve herself into his heart right before the raid, cementing that from that moment on, he is utterly devoted to her. I believe this is part of the reason why Louis is still happy to see her if he’s the one who’s captured. Yes, yes, he’s also incredibly traumatized from having his tongue cut out and he’d be happy to see anyone, yada yada… but listen, if you romance Louis and he’s captured, his heart remains with her—that piano with their intitals is on full display. When he sees her, he’s still so devoted to her that he refuses to accept that it’s at all her fault. Even when she says it is, he shakes his head... and he so easily accepts her when they’re together in the end. From the moment Clementine puts knife to wood, he’s hers.

Now, look… you might think I’m going somewhere not great with this but hear me out.

I think after Clementine’s gone star gazing with her, Violet is fully ready to give her heart to her. Y’know, give her the pin. But, think about what Violet said about how people have left, but Clementine came back. Plus, with the impending raid to think about, maybe Violet should keep the pin until the right moment.

I believe a key difference between her and Louis is that Violet needs one last thing to solidify that Clementine’s the one.

Louis gives her his heart prior to the raid because of everything that’s already gone down between them following Marlon’s death. Violet needs to know that Clementine’s willing to fight for her the way she fought before. When Clementine saves her from the raiders, it’s solidified. Even after she sees Minerva again, it changes nothing.

It’s also worth noting that the pin is something Clementine wears. Like the piano carving, it’s a piece on display for everyone to see, to let them know whose heart Clementine has.

Violet literally handed Clementine her heart as a means of saying, “I’m yours. I’m devoted to you.”

This is why romanced/captured Violet is devastating, and is why she behaves the way she does in the cells. She was so ready to give her heart away and then nope, sorry, Vi! You get knocked unconscious by raiders instead!

If anything, you kind of deserve to be told to fuck off if you romanced her and then let her get captured. Just sayin’.

Look, I have a lot of complicated feelings about the captured violentine route, mostly with Violet being as forgiving as she is after her eyes are burned—yes, yes, I know, her eyes are burned and Minerva messed with her head so of course now she’s not hostile, yada, yada.

But I think it’s rather telling that you don’t get the pin in this route. Sure, Violet’s willing to forgive and possibly pursue this romance in the future… but she’s not ready to hand over her heart, not truly. Not after everything that’s happened.

And if you want to get extra angsty about it, imagine that Violet made the pin right after they parted ways, but before the raiders came. Meaning that if she’s captured, it’s possibly still sitting somewhere, abandoned.

Mmhmmm, very normal about this. I feel normal. My normalness about this continues... normally. I'm not losing my shit thinking about that. Nope. Why would I? I wouldn't! So normal.

Okay just let me talk about their reactions to Tenn's death and then I'll shut up.

This makes me want to gnaw my own foot off, I can barely handle it.

AJ shoots Tenn on the bridge because Clementine trusted him to make the hard calls. This saves Louis or Violet's life.

When Louis jumps across, he's completely silent as he watches Tenn die... and then he's pissed; "What the fuck?! How could you just shoot him like that?!"

AJ explains himself, that he did it for him, and Louis is so upset that he forces AJ to look at what he's done, to watch the walkers eat Tenn; "Tenn's dead. He's dead! Do you realize that?! Look! [...] He's... he's gone, because of you. Just fucking gone."

If Clementine says AJ saved his life, Louis says, "So what, we just cut him loose? Gun him down like he was nothing?"

If Clementine says nothing, Louis says, "Tenn was just a little boy!"

The reason Louis responds this way is because in this moment, he just relived Marlon's death all over again, but worse. So, SO much worse!

When Violet jumps across, she breaks down, begging, "Oh, my God! Oh, my God! No, no! No, no, no..." as she watches Tenn die... and then says to AJ, "No! What the fuck?! How could you do that?!"

AJ explains himself, that he did it for her, and Violet is faaaar from okay; "For me? I can't... Tenn is gone! That soft little boy who liked to draw, he's gone, because of you!"

If Clementine says AJ saved her life, Violet says, "You think that's okay?! Just gunning down one of our own?!"

And there it is.

Louis is hardened in this situation because he already went through this... Violet hasn't, not with AJ. She softened up throughout her route due to her relationships to him and Clementine... but this is the moment where she realizes that maybe AJ wasn't as justified as she believed, and this is the consequence.

This leads us to the ending where AJ asks if they're still mad about him killing Tenn, and I just... I'm biting my foot right now because the script has flipped.

Louis is forgiving and understanding. He's soft, he's sympathetic, he shakes AJ's hand to let him know that all is forgiven and they're okay; "I... AJ, I guess it's like... You saw something I didn't. About the situation, I mean. Minnie and the walkers and Tenn, it's just all this chaos in my head when I think back on it. [...] Clem says you saved my life? Well, then, that's exactly what you did. And how can I stay mad at anyone for doing that?"

Or, alternatively, "He was your friend, AJ. I know you are hurting just as much as I am."

As for Violet? She's understanding, too... but she's not quite ready to forgive yet; "The thing you said on the bridge...that he was messing up all the time. It wasn't something new, you know. Tenn got himself or other people into trouble all the time, long before you guys got here. He was always so lost. He lived in a world that just...isn't there, you know? And that's why I tried to look after him. But when I was pulling him away from the walkers, and Minnie, I could also see...he just wasn't there anymore."

"So you're mad, but sad."

"Can I be that for a while?"

And it's completely understandable that she's hurting and struggling with how she feels about AJ moving forward! She wants to be okay, she wants to forgive him, she just needs time.

Now, because I'm forever bitter, but I'm gonna mention this as well: whenever I see someone point at Violet's scene and say, "See!? This is how LOUIS should've acted in ep2!" like... they're telling on themselves again. Not just that they don't understand Louis as a character or his route, but that they don't fully grasp Violet's part in this either. Or time frames, for that matter.

Let me put it to you in simple terms... they react the same.

After Marlon and Tenn die, they're upset. They're pissed. They blame AJ and yell at him. After they've had time to process what happened [Louis after the two week time skip, Violet after time passes between the bridge and the ending] they share the same, "I'm still upset about Marlon/Tenn. Can I be that for a while and still be your friend?" sentiment.

The difference is that Louis is treated poorly for it because of the vote, and because we feel it first hand for longer... Violet got to grieve off screen and come back after she's sorted herself out.

It's a disservice to both of their characters because it's rooted in that same mentality that I criticized at the beginning: "This is why one is better than the other."

Do I need to say it again? I'm gonna say it again.

One is not good and the other bad. They're different.

There are so many fun discussions that could come from putting Louis and Violet side by side, and examining them. I haven't even covered the different ways they're introduced, or compared their ep3 dates to see what it says about them and the overall narratives! What about the cell scenes!? How they react when Dorian's about the cut off their fingers! The way they approach James upon meeting him!

That last one in particular is especially funny! They're all under stress about blending in with a herd of walkers to infiltrate a boat to save their friends, and yet Louis easily saunters up to the guy wearing walker skins with a smile, and makes him laugh by saying, "Functional and fashionable. I'll take two."

Violet approaches James like he's an injured wild animal that's going to bite her, and bless her heart, she tries with, "I, uh… hey. Hey there, James. Sorry about Willy." Then James gives her this judgmental side-eye, like buddy? She's not the weirdo here.

There is so much potential to dissect here, and I want to see people do it... but I want them to do it fairly, in good faith.

I want to get away from the idea of comparing them to "prove" which is better because there is no objective better. There isn't! That's a waste of time!

I'm so done with The Debate™; it's unhelpful, it's annoying, and it's boring as shit. I've heard it all before, and you probably have, too.

I want to put Louis and Violet under a microscope and study them with the thought process of, "one does this and the other does that... what does it mean!? what does it say about the narrative!? Oh my god, they have the same opinion on this thing, WRITE THAT DOWN!"

So yeah, that's my ramble for the night.

I'm gonna go replay TFS for further research.

#twdg #twdg clementine #twdg louis #twdg violet #twdg aj #twdg tenn #twdg marlon #twdg minerva #twdg clouis #twdg violentine #clouis #violentine #i'll be real honest with you--i had a larger essay planned on this topic #that expanded on these ideas i've put forth here; especially the challenge vs validation thing and the allegories #but there were some parts where i could feel my personal bias slipping in too much...#like i had more to say about clouis than violentine at points because i'm more familiar with it #but then it didn't feel fair y'know? that's why i wish more people would talk about them like this #so that i could get different perspectives without having to deal with terrible 'one good one bad' arguments like they're so UNHELPFUL #i don't wanna hear about how much of a bitch you think vi is because she's angry in her cell scene #and i don't wanna hear about how 'well ACTUALLY it doesn't make sense that ANY clementine would romance louis because of the vote' STOP #to be fair tumblr isn't as bad with this. i'm mostly referring to fandom spaces outside of tumblr like reddit insta youtube etc #though tumblr certainly has had its moments #i dunno i'm just gonna throw this out there and then continue to work on the essay i want to and am able to fully write #and if people want to engage with it then fantastic can't wait to see what y'all have to say

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captainmera · 1 year ago

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i never realised just how much tgb had changed how i thought about the characters (mostly vee) until yesterday when i was re-looking over my toh fan-art. You wrote them so well that i forgot that it wasnt all in the show. like how vee and gus weren't shown to being best friends, vee never got to be angry/shocked by hunter or just willow still holding a little grudge against amity. They are just cool details and im so clad they were added! ps your great

Thank you! Wow that's very flattering! I'm glad you are enjoying it!

I really like Vee, and the more I think about the gang's time in the human-realm, the more I sit back in my chair and think "Ah man, these arcs are really necessary and interesting though.."

Vee also holds a lot of plot, as a basilisk. We can speculate what the reason is that they were extinct, for example (grimwalkers were extinct too).

Wat I really enjoy about TOH's characters are how easily and smoothly they weave into each other's themes and arcs. Their personalities and histories makes them all perfect friends to both build them up and break them down. It's a chefs kiss.

Vee is no different! The set-up for her character was perfectly slotted in to what the other characters needed for their time in the human-realm. And the theme I think the human-realm was supposed to embody.

The demon-realm arc for Luz was a hero's journey, but because of the foil of the trope, and that the point was that: there is no hero/chosen one actually, and the rebels didn't make it in time like in the books, and just because it's a different realm it didn't mean Luz could escape - escapism is temporary.

Dana has said grief and hope are core elements of the story, and she chose to tell it through a foiled trope of being chosen/hero's journey, layered with a religious trauma lens.

To me, looking at Luz as the main character, means looking at her as a nerdy girl in need of escapism, wanting to find purpose, and avoiding her emotions about her dad's passing.

The return to human-realm would be, for Luz, a turning point where TOH turns from being about a hero's journey and a journey about the steps of grief and healing - at the end of it, she will find the light.

Vee, to me, is kind of like a new take on the guide character. She is not a guide, in the sense that she has all the answers, but rather all the truths.

She was right when she told Luz she had everything and still chose to run away. They're not the same. Vee is also a lot better than Luz at being normal and fitting in, something Luz has been playing off and avoiding facing. Luz sees herself as being different as a bad thing, she tried to run away to a place where "weird" was normal and that didn't work out. Now she's back home and feels that it's all her fault bad things happened, because she is herself. And the person she is is different. And different didn't mean special, just different. Of course she's depressed.

The same is true for all the other characters. Vee gets to reflect their truths too, simply by being crafted, narratively, into being the guide.

Hunter gets to face his actions as the GG, come to terms with the nuances of his bad actions, whatever reason he committed what he did. Find forgiveness not just from Vee but himself too. He gets to start over, just like her. She shows him it's possible.

Gus gets someone to share his dream with, his love and enthusiasm for the human realm. A place that Vee feels is more home than where she came from. Gus gets to grow as a person, both morally and intelligently. As does Vee, she gets somebody who shows her that she doesn't just have to be a refugee, she can have a purpose here. She can be an ambassador.

Willow was set up to have an arc where she mistook her newfound magical and physical strengths (she is working out a lot in canon after she changed track), for inner strengths. Willow is a sensitive girl, and a bit of a berserk (I mean she was willing to burn her own mind just to hurt Amity). Willow having to face Vee, who isn't physically stronger than her but is significantly further down the road of being internally strong, is something Willow can learn from. Perhaps even have conflict with! (but more so a conflict with herself than with Vee, really.)

With Amity, Vee has a simpler role. I think to Amity it's more so showing that it's possible to live in the human realm, and giving her hope that going back and forth is a future for everyone who wishes to do so. Creatively speaking, I think Amity and Vee more so to bounce off one another for the plot, rather than character growth or decline.

Camila, I think, is the most interesting. Because she has now spent approximately a year with Vee, half of it thinking she was Luz and having feelings about her daughter having changed so much, the line "I'm glad youre still creative" comes to mind. As well as the terror of losing Luz again. But also, because she has had her own unseen arc and development with Vee, and them having bonded into a foster family that we never got to see glimpses of, it goes without saying that Camila has already done the internal work to take on more kids if that's necessary. I think she saw these kids by her door and thought "yep. They're mine now too." Vee, I think, is interesting to toss into the family dynamic between Luz and Camila, who seemingly are misunderstanding one another significantly. Vee sees them both, and can be a voice of reason when it comes to it. Or if it would come to it.

ANYWAY MY RANTS ARE LONG. IM DONE. THANKS FOR READING.

#TOH #the owl house #toh vee #vee noceda

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tairona-is-taken · 4 months ago

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Completely devastated (in the best of ways) by Sol's death in The Acolyte. I mean, yes, this man done fucked up, but his ultimate end was just SO tragic and SO far beyond what he deserved and it just hurts so bad, it's amazing. He gets slowly and mercilessly murdered by Osha, the person he loves more than anything, AND she never finds out the full truth about why he killed her mother, AND Vernestra then throws him under the bus and pins all the murders committed by Mae and Qimir on him instead. Just ... oof. It's absolutely a fate worse than death, the fact that he's also shamed and disgraced on top of everything else. And he deserves some shame and disgrace -- and if he had lived, he should've been held accountable for how he contributed to the Brendok disaster -- but the fact that he will now be remembered as basically a mass murderer is truly unjust.

One of the worst things about it, for me, is the fact that I'm pretty sure Vernestra knows Sol didn't kill Indara, Torbin, and Kelnacca or the Jedi on Khofar, and is instead using him as a scapegoat to hide the fact that her own student (Qimir) turned evil and is running around wreaking havoc.

Now granted, The Acolyte excels at complicated, nuanced characters, so I'm trying to give Vernestra the benefit of the doubt and I'm assuming she has some bigger goal in mind rather than just covering her own tail. Maybe she made Sol the scapegoat to try to get the Senate off the Jedi Order's back? I don't know.

But if we do get a season 2, I really hope part of it will be dedicated to clearing Sol's name posthumously and to Osha learning the full truth. I don't think this will necessarily lead to her forgiving him, but I just want her to know the full complexity of what happened on Brendok so badly.

And again, this is not meant as a criticism of Sol's arc. His story is going to haunt me for a long time and I love that it will.

#master sol #the acolyte #star wars: the acolyte #the acolyte spoilers #star wars #the acolyte meta #star wars meta #meta #spoilers #tairona talks

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genericpuff · 2 months ago

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Hi! So this is coming from a place of genuine concern, LR Persephone isn't going to have DID right? I know you probably can't reveal much but DID is already a very stigmatized disorder so I'm always worried when I see the Signs, I hope you understand lol

I understand fully your concerns, and I hope I can reassure you in my own intentions regarding Kore / Persephone that the goal is not to demonize or stigmatize DID in any way. I actually do regularly interact with a family member who's currently seeking an official diagnosis for it, and have my own firsthand experiences with my own mental health and symptoms of childhood trauma that are intersectional with that of DID. Of course, that doesn't mean that I'm immune to stigmatizing, but rest assured that I am aware of the stigmas surrounding DID and the misconceptions that a lot of people have about it, no thanks to how it's been portrayed in mainstream media.

If I can add some additional and necessary context as to why I chose to write Kore like this, much of how I'm writing her is based on how she was initially presented to us in S1 of LO, particularly through the personification of her wrath:

I really liked this concept and was subsequently disappointed when it seemed to get left behind (though considering how LO turned out, maybe that was for the better lmao) I've always enjoyed these "inner conflict" character dynamics, but I also understand from years of writing characters like this that much of these types of tropes are often intersectional with common misconceptions and stigmas surrounding personality disorders and mental illness.

Within the context of Rekindled, Kore does not specifically have DID but her experiences are clearly intersectional with it. Ultimately my goal is to empathize, not demonize. As much as "Persephone" may be currently presenting herself as a sort of snarky "alter ego" of Kore, she is not evil, no more "evil" than Kore herself, because they're ultimately of the same mind and body, flaws and all. Persephone is often speaking truths that Kore is simply not willing to admit or able to face, the worst of which we've yet to uncover, but will be necessary to overcome. There will certainly be times when Kore's actions - spurred on by the voice of Persephone in her ear - may be ugly or wrong, but I hope in the end that I'll achieve my goal in expressing that everyone - even immortal gods - can always have another chance to heal, to forgive themselves for their past, and to do right by themselves for the sake of a brighter future. This will apply to other gods in the story as well, many of whom also share Kore's struggles and experiences.

And, assuming I do my part and deliver on my promises, there will be closure for Kore/Persephone, the readers who relate to their struggles and experiences, and many of the other characters who were hung out to dry in the original comic. That's definitely one of my biggest goals with this retelling, at least! (•̀ᴗ•́)و It's definitely one of my riskier moves as the nature of the subject is very sensitive, but I'm giving it my all in the hopes that it pays off in a more nuanced and in-depth character arc for Kore/Persephone than what we got in LO that can hopefully be embraced as a message of acceptance and self-love. And y'all can hold me to that (๑•̀ㅂ•́)و✧

#ask me anything #ama #anon ama #anon ask me anything #lore rekindled ama

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dunmeshistash · 5 months ago

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God people really forget nuance as soon as it is a female character

I actually started liking Maizuru for her design, but with adventure bible I've come to liking her even more. Sure, she isn't perfect, she can actually be very cruel ( especially to Izutsumi) but I've always seen her as efficient other than anything. She doesn't think to enjoy being cruel, but will do anything in her power to make sure Shuro's orders ( and specially his dad's ) are fulfilled. Considering she is a senrvant/slave and we know next to nothing about how all that worked I really understand why she would be so severe ( though I'm glad Izutsumi escaped)

I don't even think she hates Izutsumi to be fair, she made a point to train her and teach her along with the other servants (even tho she was brought to her as a inhuman pet) so by Maizuru's perspective she's probably doing something good for her.

I still don't forgive her tho, even if she did have "good intentions" they were severely misguided and it was more like she was trying to force Izutsumi into a mold she didn't fit. I think she sucks but I also love her as a character.

How she treats Toshiro isn't even comparable tho, she coddles him while being severe with the other servants, he has power over her so he could get rid of Maizuru anytime he wanted if it really did bother him (he probably wouldn't tho since he's a doormat) I think she's a positive presence for him tho, considering he was neglected by his parents (from what it seems) and she's the only person that actually believes he can become a good leader, no one else from his family or servants seem to believe in him.

#ask #dunmeshi thoughts #Maizuru #tales-from-the-deep-sea #re:

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mot-hesbian · 5 months ago

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Why are we complaining about season 3?

Like, my issue is the neverending threesome. That's it. Why was it still going??? Why was it so long???? I love them exploring characters' sexualities, but ffs.

Other than that, part 2 made me really like the Mondrich storyline, still don't know how they did it. Like, it felt so unnecessary but then suddenly within their first scene in part 2 I suddenly enjoyed it??? What did they put in the water for part 2 to be this good?!

I liked getting more Danbury backstory! I enjoyed Violet starting to find love again!! I loved John and Francesca (because yes, they did have to show their story with their changes to the timeline!!! I love Mikaela and am so excited for their story!!! I just wish that Frannie didn't have an interest in her yet, in the books she didn't love anyone but John until after he died. I didn't like that so much.)

I love the nuance of Polin's story!! We needed a love story with more nuance and, honestly, they wouldn't have been able to tell their story without it! Colin had every right to be as upset as he was and to take his time to forgive her and move past it in his own time!! Penelope was allowed to be upset with how he was handling certain things and take control of her own story!!

I think people forget that even in the book it is, in many ways, PENELOPE'S story we are reading. Yes, Colin has his own storyline, but it doesn't take the precedence that hers does. I love her calling him out for his white knight thing and telling him she doesn't want that (something I wanted to see in the book).

I wish they kept in his speech about loving her, but making it more personal and not in front of the ton. She deserved to disclose her identity herself and I love the show for that!

The evolution of the Featheringtons is gorgeous and I love it!!!

All in all, I really love part 2 and wish it wouldn't get so much hate

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bonefall · 11 months ago

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Is Sandgorse still abusive in BB? If so does he still save Sparrow? Idk I think it'd be a neat thing for Talltail to brood on and move past once realizing the truth. Like just because your abuser did a "Good Thing tm" doesn't mean you have to forgive them or that all of a sudden it excuses their past a tion towards you.

Or did you remove this plot beat entirely? If so I don't blame you :P

Weird that Tumblr search isn't giving me all the stuff I tagged :/ hopefully after finals are done I can compile a 1st draft/The Story So Far for the rework of Tallstar’s Revenge

It's now called TALLSTAR’S COLLAPSE. It is actually a story I am rewriting with tragedy in mind. It's about Talltail fleeing WindClan with his starcrossed lover, Sparrow, only to eventually be drawn back to it where he becomes a perpetuator of all the things that made him leave.

To answer your question; Yes, and. Sandgorse is abusive and there's a LOT of nuance to this situation. I'm not sure if he still saves "Sparrow" though because I have waaaay more of a point in mind with Tallstar’s tumultuous relationship to him.

Summary of changes,

Tallstar's Collapse

Sparrow is the Clanmew name Jake takes when his group interacts with WindClan. His first language is actually a dialect of Townmew!

(Also Firestar has no known father in BB)

His group is nomadic. They go from place to place trading goods. I need a name for both them and their cultural "cluster" but in my head, Jake's family is the Algernauts because Algernon is the current leader

It's important the Algernauts are extremely endearing because leaving them is VERY painful

(and something i want to frame as the wrong choice for tallstar, emotionally)

WindClan is in a very sensitive period of its history. Before Tallstar was born, Heatherstar began the Mothermouth Moorland War, to take a very large parcel of land from ShadowClan. A good 1/5th of it.

Naturally this is a huge project and incredibly ambitious. Sacrifices Must Be Made

The sacrifice she has chosen to make is the death of tunneling. Because she's smothering it.

Tunneling is PEACEFUL, defensive at best. You can't dig them in a floodplain, they would be useless for holding the Mothermouth Moorland territory

Tallkit is born into a terrible position. Son of the head tunneler, mother in a terrible depression, and Heatherstar trying to pry a wedge between the "future" and the "past"

Im also planning to change his name. He was born Slowworm-Kit, which has a connotation of cleverness in Clanmew. To bully him, Shrewpaw calls him Wormtail, because Slowworms drop their tails if pulled. It means "you will get trapped in a cave-in, and when they pull your tail, it'll fall off"

But it doesn't translate well into English... so I'm not sure what his Heatherstar-given warrior name would be. Wormwing or Wormleap maybe, like he "defied fate" to become a wonderful moor-runner...

Or maybe the prefix is Drop? Droptail as the mean bully name and Dropflight as the warrior name...

Anyway, when he returns, Heatherstar welcomes back the extra claws and honors the lesson he learned with "Talltale." In Clanmew this is "Story-travelled," his leader name meaning "Tale-star."

Anyway. Back to the cat drama

Talltail (name pending) is in a tight spot. I kind of want to show everyone being a victim except Heatherstar herself, who has all the power in this situation.

Not that it excuses anyone

Sandgorse is watching something he loves dying, an ancient tradition passed down for generations. He is trying to force his son into a position he shouldn't HAVE to occupy, but his child is the one thing he might have any control over

(Until Tall breaks it ofc)

Tallpaw was just a kid. He needed to take out his bullying and the stress on something, and that was usually his mother and the concept of tunneling

Palebird has been completely neglected by her mate as he focuses on the person he WANTS his kid to be. She NAMED a Fading Kit, a serious social taboo, and even the support of the nursery and Woolytail can't pull her out before Tall's kithood is over

Heatherstar is using Tallpaw as a political pawn and Tallpaw is too young and hurt to realize it. He was given to her sister, Dawnstripe, and endlessly praised for his skill and talent in a time where he NEEDED positive feedback

Which is making his relationships with his parents worse

All the while, there's VIOLENCE. Regular raids and counterstrikes. Cats die and get injured, and it only escalates as Tall gets older and Cedarstar is reaching the end of his lives, hoping to end the conflict before then

And in all this chaos and uncertainty, there comes Sparrow.

Just a trader and an honored guest, there's been lots of these nomadic visitors since the time of Windstar herself, but they've become quite rare.

When Sandgorse dies suddenly in that collapse (TITLE DROP) Talltail has the push he finally needs. It's too much. He can't process this

Sparrow begs him to leave with them, they don't even need to confront anyone, just come!

IF IT SUCKS HIT DA BRICKS

I have tons of really nice little things planned for this part of the story. It's several chapters of Talltail being free.

He engages in the funeral rites of Wee Hen, asking if he may sit vigil for her. His new family is honored to allow it, Reena even tries to do it too and falls asleep

(Little sister energy)

They meet all sorts of people and go to many places. Talltail learns that the world is vast, and there's an endless amount of knowledge out here.

It all starts crashing down when him and Jake find a litter of abandoned kittens, and become parents.

They're a few moons old.. around the same age as his halfsibs back home.

It starts bringing back memories. He wonders how they're doing. If they made a nice grave for Sandgorse...

The sudden longing for his own mother strikes him like lightning.

For the first time in eons, he feels GUILT over leaving. He thought it was over-- he's living his own life now!

But what if they're hurt? What if there was a battle and he couldn't help? What if his mentor died and he didn't even know?

What kind of a horrible son doesn't even say goodbye?

The problems that made him leave seem so small now, and the homesickness is like acid leaking from his stomach, dissolving his guts and leaving him hollow

He's raising kits who will never know what it means to earn a title, or have a permanent home, or--

(Any of the other things he should have learned don't have meaning outside of clan culture. Things they wouldn't miss.)

He cherishes the memories he makes here, raising children with his mate, but something turns inside of Talltail. Like the groaning ache of a hundred stones on top of a decaying mineshaft

The REAL collapse is this. An existential crisis Talltail can't escape from.

And eventually, it comes tumbling down with one last, horrible nightmare.

In his dream, he came home only to find the sandy camp abandoned, the dens decrepit, full of musty scent and cobwebs.

Sandgorse was there. And they talked.

His dad was gruff as always, disappointed. But he didn't say anything the real Sandgorse would say.

The nightmare said, "You really did turn out like me. We both left your mother when she needed us. Turned our backs on our leader. And now we're both dead to WindClan."

Tall wakes up crying. Jake is there to comfort him, but the conversation they have is sad.

Jake tries to tell him that's all not true, and even if it WAS his dad, his dad sucked and would only say that to hurt him!

But... Tall can't believe it. Jake's right but also wrong. He IS all those horrible things.

And...... how can jake ever Understand? He does not know the Bonds of a Clan cat

(thought terminating cliche. Outsiders Cant Understand Our Bonds.)

He stays a few more days, but that nightmare was the end. And everyone sees the change.

The kits are apprentice-aged. He stayed until they would be old enough to keep up with the Algernauts.

And he says goodbye. He won't ever leave without saying goodbye ever again.

Jake says it doesn't have to be goodbye, he'll always love him, and they can visit! They can see each other again!

And Tall says yes. That this isn't the end. It's... see you later, my love.

(...but they both know how violent it's getting between Wind and Shadow. It isn't safe to visit.)

It is the end. But neither can admit it.

But after Tall is a fair distance away, one of his kits tackles him.

POSSIBLY Post-Tallstar's Collapse

Not sure if I'd put these in a novella or still make it part of it, but these are all directly related to the fallout of Tallstar's Collapse

Most likely is that there would be overlap between this and Brokenstar's Cataclysm, so the same events would be seen in different perspectives.

The kit's name is Fly. Tall has to wait for him to catch his breath and stop crying before they can talk.

Fly already lost parents before. He says he knows he can't make his dads stay together, "But PLEASE, papa, let me choose where I go this time!"

How could he say no? How could he send his son away after a plea like that?

He told him it would be hard. That he would be trained. That there would be dangerous fights.

Fly didn't care, he said he could be strong. He could do anything he needed to.

So... Tall took him to WindClan, where he became Flypaw. He became the warrior he promised he would be.

And Tall didn't notice how much the kid was changing until it was too late. Flytail took to it as if he was Clanborn-- but had to work twice as hard, fight thrice as viciously.

Though Talltail was graced with an Honor Title and open arms, he'd adopted his greatest rival.

Fly and Tall started competing for deputyship as soon as they finished training apprentices; Heatherstar had a fondness for the two of them.

In the end, Talltail won the spot by springing into action and saving Heatherstar's young nephew, a little golden tabby, from an adder.

Flytail continued as one of the more aggressive warriors in the Clan, surviving increasingly violent and bitter battles, until it came to a head in Heatherstar's Last Stand.

Her final battle as an old leader was a gruesome, definitive curbstomp in the last strategic point ShadowClan held above Carrionplace.

One of the losses was Lizardstripe-- neck snapped in Flytail's jaws.

Runningnose, and by extension, the oak-tree to his long-shadow, Brokentail, remembered this. Especially when Runningnose's father Mudfoot collapsed later that year.

As Talltail took leadership from the dying Heatherstar, a familiar regretful guilt wormed into his belly.

His son Flytail stood with a bloody mouth, eyes wet with sorrow, looking down at the leader Talltail once loved almost as much. Appreciating her sacrifice.

(secretly he didnt choose Deadfoot as his deputy just for his honor title or the battle move he invented... he chose him because there was a shocked, sorrowful look in his eyes at the fallen shadowclan cat. Sympathy seems more honorable in this moment.)

Tallstar is a wise leader... but his fatal flaw is naivety. How could he think he'd bring his son into WindClan, and not see the boy grow into a ferocious Warrior?

And naivety is what he displayed when he offered Raggedstar a peace deal. WindClan would keep the land, but they would pay a small tax of rabbits over the winter.

It was unprecedented. It was merciful. It was stupid.

When the winter was over, what would stop them from pushing further south?

Would they trade back the frogs and the flax, come summer?

On the blood and bones of so many warriors? As if giving up was ever an option?

Brokentail killed his father to prevent him from taking the deal, and reawakened Ripplestar's War Tactics.

BURN the peat. KILL the prey. OFFENSE is defense. A dead warrior is 10 less claws. A dead apprentice is 1 less warrior.

Stolen kittens are 1 more warrior on your own side.

Tallstar paid the ultimate price for letting Flytail follow him home that day. On the night of the massacre, Flytail went down fighting alongside a mate and a daughter. Dogpiled by Tangleburr and her squadron in revenge for Lizardstripe and Mudfoot.

Tallstar's granddaughter Stoneclaw, made a warrior and sitting for her vigil on that night, was the sole survivor of the little family.

The event stopped her from speaking again, like she's still sitting vigil.

Tallstar is a character who almost broke free of the control of the Clans. For a brief moment of his life, he was free.

He thought maybe he could change things a little, protect his Clanmates from the battles by being part of them, have the Mothermouth Moorland and protect the peace at the same time. But you CAN'T.

You can't fix broken systems without fundamentally changing them. He thought he could be a nice warlord and that would work on the Clan whose territory he had inherited. Power acts through people just as much as they act through power.

And that's Tallstar. He who travels the world, yet is never able to go far enough. Always falling just a little short of the point, believing that love and mercy is enough while blissfully ignorant of the pressures of pride and power.

Into this role, as a successor to this leader, Onestar is unwillingly thrust.

#BB!Tallstar #Better bones au #BB!Flytail #Tallstar's Collapse

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iliveforyouilongforyouvesuvia · 5 months ago

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You've talked about Lucio’s forgiveness before but specifically speaking, Do you think the M6 could ever forgive Lucio for what he did to them ( Besides Portia )?

If they could how do you think it would go and what do you think would happen afterwards? Would they be friends? Would they remain on neutral ground? “ I forgive you but I don't want to see you for a long time”? Etc

OR Do you think there is absolutely no way in the Arcana Realms that they could ever forgive Lucio for the actions ( and crimes ) he committed? ( He did a LOT )

I'm going to go on a tangent about unreliable narrators here which I promise is relevant to the story -

And before I go on, yes, I know the production of the different routes was messy. There's a lot of inconsistencies that can be chalked up to rushed planning, poor work environments for the creators at the time, etc. That doesn't stop me from over-analyzing it though!! :D

Who Lucio is changes pretty significantly from route to route, which feels like inconsistent writing until you take into account the way that who MC is attached to is going to influence their perspective. From Nadia's perspective, he's an incompetent fool. From Asra's, a despicable villain, from Julian's, a scary nuisance, from Portia's, completely irrelevant, from Muriel's, the Devil incarnate, and from his own, the equivalent of a kicked puppy. Forgiveness is much more nuanced process than we like to think it is, and the concept of empowerment and injustice play heavily into it.

When it comes to genuine forgiveness, I personally think Nadia is the closest we get to seeing it happen, and I'm referencing the events of her own route. She's able to go through the process of unpacking the effect of Lucio's actions on her and the people she cares about and addressing it. By her final confrontation with him, she's established and reclaimed the narrative of his involvement in her life, she's able to openly express her feelings to him about it, and once she's toppled their old power dynamic once and for all in a duel, she's ready to put him out of her life on her own terms. Lucio goes running off into the realms and she's able to move on with closure.

Forgiveness in this case looks less to me like "it never happened" or "it happened but I'm not holding it against you anymore." Rather, it looks like "the past has been resolved and now I'm going to rebuild what you tore apart." Both Nadia and Lucio are freed in their own ways. It's a fairly appropriate resolution in my opinion because they chose to have each other in their lives as peers and the processing Nadia did was **roughly ** proportional to the amount of personal harm Lucio caused.

Asra's route has a slightly more typical ending for Lucio as the story's villain. There isn't one point in which the ex-count shows any kind of remorse, self-awareness, or concern for his actions. He's irredeemable. However, Asra doesn't harbor fear towards him as much as they harbor hatred and disgust. They knew Lucio was somehow responsible for their parent's disappearance and assumed death and for the death of their love, but they also saw how easy it was to make a fool of him from a very young age. For them, forgiving Lucio doesn't involve self-empowerment like it does for Nadia or Muriel. It requires a courage to acknowledge the personal pain that someone they hate so much was able to cause.

There's a moment in Asra's route as they lure Lucio into the trap that ultimately causes his death where we see the beginnings of this. Asra turns after running away to face their tormentor down, lists the ways Lucio hurt them, acknowledges that there is still a way for Lucio to hurt them, and then declares their own resolve to work through it regardless. While it doesn't reach the point of forgiveness, it's enough resolution on that front for life without Lucio in it to be free of the previous bitterness. Wrongs were acknowledged, justice was done, and life can continue. I imagine if Lucio had survived falling into the frozen lake, forgiveness would've taken another ten years and proof that Lucio had no further intention of harming anyone important.

Julian's route doesn't get into matters of "right" and "wrong" as much as it gets into "worth" and "guilt". Lucio still blames an inexperienced Julian for cutting off his arm way back when, and Julian in turn chooses to commit to finding a cure for the plague and taking the infected Lucio as his patient. Julian's own poor self-esteem twists all his very real misfortunes into a blame game designed to further trap him. The first step towards forgiveness requires acknowledging that someone else has acted unjustly towards you, but with Julian convinced he's not worthy of being treated with love, he's unable to see the injustice of Lucio's hateful behavior towards him.

Julian's sense of betrayal towards Lucio stems from the hopeless situation he ended up in and all the other lives lost to his selfish choices, but even towards the end of his route he still struggles to acknowledge how Lucio wronged him as a person. He's angry on other's behalf, not his own, but he's only able to forgive Lucio on his own behalf and not other's. The process can't start for him until he's able to hold onto his own worth regardless of how he's treated or what others think.

Muriel's route shows Lucio as something akin to demonic, even having him merge with the Devil later on in the route. Muriel doesn't seem to have ever had some kind of relationship with Lucio, which left the Count without anything to temper his malice. Lucio didn't know who Muriel was as a person and frankly didn't care, as long as he was able to leverage "entertainment" out of him. It's a connection built purely on exploitation, trauma, and ego-fueled malice, and not something to be taken lightly.

The only circumstance in which forgiveness could be healthy and real for Muriel would be if it was part of enabling him to leave Lucio in the past and flourish with as little of it weighing him down as possible. Given what a monumental task that would be, and how thoroughly Muriel likes to take his time to process things, that process would take decades and might never reach completion.

Finally, in Lucio's own route, I'll be honest and say I'm pretty dissatisfied with how the topic of forgiveness was broached. Rather, the word "forgive" seemed to be substituted for the sentiment "it's the in the past and there's bigger/more urgent things to worry about which unfortunately require cooperating with you". We do get the setup for a poignant scene where Lucio has to fight the younger version of himself, but it's more focused on forcing him to recognize what a terrible person he was. Furthermore, as long as Lucio is unable to see himself as a perpetrator or being capable of filling a perpetrator's role, he won't be able to see himself as someone who needs to be forgiven.

With the weight of all the harm he's done, there will come a point in the distant future will Lucio will have to forgive himself. However, that can't happen until the full effect of his actions have completely sunk in and he's matured enough to feel proportional levels of guilt. Even then, there's a necessary period of time where he has to find closure by addressing those wrongdoings before the process of self-forgiveness can start. There's none of that in his route, but I like to hope he makes it that far down the line.

Again, these are all just my opinions (and I'm so sorry it took me days to finish this!) but I hope they help!

#ask arcana brainrot #the arcana #the arcana game #lucio morgasson #lucio the arcana #asra the arcana #asra alnazar #julian the arcana #julian devorak #nadia the arcana #nadia satrinava #muriel the arcana #muriel of the kokhuri

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sarahshoots1st · 9 months ago

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One detail about Vaggie's character I can't seem to get out of my mind is that she never seems angry about what Lute did to her.

She obviously didn't enjoy the experience, and harbors a lot of resentment towards the exorcists and heaven for the threat they pose to her found family. But I don't recall her ever expressing anger specifically over the loss of her wings/eye.

This is only my speculation, but I believe that deep down she feels she deserves that pain for all the suffering she caused in hell. She views her maiming as karmic judgement for all the lives she ended.

Vaggie is an endlessly selfless character, and in accordance with that I don't think she would let herself dwell on her own pain. Sure, she experienced something traumatic, but how does that compare to the thousands of lives she ended? She seems exactly like the kind of person who would wallow in self-destructive guilt. As Husk astutely points out, a lot of her characterization is wrapped around self-loathing.

While this is by no means a healthy trait, it's a subtle detail that really resonates with me because I too struggle with forgiving myself I think it adds a lot of nuance and depth to her character.

#hazbin hotel discussion #vaggie #hazbin hotel vaggie #hazbin spoilers

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tujhse-raabta · 5 months ago

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hope you're doing well <3

saw your post abt atlantis!percy and I got excited abt it

not anon but I wanna know more abt how amphitrite interacts w/ little percy in this au

doing VERY well, wby???? and OH ILY FOR THIS OK OK OK SO

when Poseidon brings Sally and Percy to Atlantis, she is. furious. fucking furious. you DARE to cheat on me in our open relationship, where you COULD have communicated but didn't, and then 'you bring your bastard whelp and your whore to my home?' this is a quote, forgive me 😭😭

and Sally steps up. yada yada hate me if you want, I deserve it, but Percy didn't ask to be born, and if you call my child one more name I will cut off your tongue before I'm executed for my actions.

(their situation is complex. i will not have anyone bash ANY of them. yes, there's gonna be conflict. yes, it's a horrible situation with nuanced people and faults. but they're gonna work through it.)

amphitrite just sneers and walks away, though she does call off triton - who looks FURIOUS - from hurting them.

she's actually the last person to get used to percy and Sally being around from the royal family, which is VALID.

it comes to a head when there's an 'attack' and Percy MIGHT have been hurt, and there is NO ONE WHO RUNS FASTER THAN HER TO HIS ROOM. TO PROTECT THIS CHILD. FROM HER OWN CHILD. when she realises this, that she's grown fond of the kid in the threeish months (and more than fond of his mother) she consciously gives them both a chance. and then PERCY GETS A NEW MAMA!!!!!!!

yeah he calls her mama, Sally mom, Poseidon dad and triton twi. Triton is included bcs TRITON. THAT GOD IS LESS A BROTHER AND MORE ANOTHER DAD. he never stops calling him twi btw, even once the lisp goes

SORRY BACK TO TOPIC AMPHI AND PERCY

SHE'S the one who works hardest to integrate percy into the political scenario of atlantis. she's the one who plays the court, and the citizens, to come to accept percy and, gods, she makes him BELOVED. she knows how much danger her kid is in, so she ENSURES that the entirety of the sea would go to war for him.

percy never, ever thinks of her as anything less than a mother. ever. he is hers as he is Sally's, as he is Poseidon's.

she's also the rational one in his family. Poseidon, Sally, triton, they're all irrational in their care for him - understandably - that they never see him as more than a defenseless baby who needs protection. she helps percy discover who he is outside of atlantis' gates and guards, and she trusts him and his capability. she's the first to do that, and that means so much to twelve year old percy. that there's someone out there who isn't just freaking out over him (she's doing that too lmao) but TRUSTS that he has the ability to do his quest well. self esteem boost!

#oh how i love #atlantis!percy #amphitrite #seafam

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drmajalis · 1 month ago

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I feel like talking about Kira Nerys.

She is definitely one of the all time greatest Star Trek characters, and an absolute triumph of character development and payoff. She was a terrorist, she is absolutely open and unapologetic over that fact. Her planet was under a brutal, genocidal imperialist occupation and she did whatever was necessary to frustrate the Cardassians and eventually expel them from Bajor. She starts the series with that initial, momentary victory- the Cardassians have retreated, the resistance- now Bajorian militia have captured Terok Nor, but she barely gets to enjoy it for the day before Bajor's new provisional government decides to invite Starfleet to run the space station, wanting to set up their slow, eventual ascension to the Federation. And she's PISSED. Her literal first scene is arguing with her superiors before reluctantly handing over the commander's office to newly arrived Benjamin Sisko, and while that resentment slowly fades as Sisko shows overwhelmingly that he wants to be the best advocate possible for Bajor, it remains even as he is revealed to be the Emissary, Bajor's literal messiah. Kira never ceases in her struggle to see Bajor truly independent and thriving, even when it comes into conflict with her own conflicted moral code, something she had to adopt while fighting the Cardassians, but is ill equipped to handle the nuances they now have to face. This even eventually leads her to rebel, if briefly, against her own government, because she eventually decides her allegiance is to the Bajorans she fought to liberate, not Bajor the planet, or political entity.

And then there's Kira's complicated, evolving relation to the former Cardassian occupiers. It's easy to understand why she would paint them all with the same brush, they were genocidal, unforgiving, claiming to do what they did in some deluded idea that they were "helping" Bajor. But very quickly events transpire that shake her previously black and white beliefs about them.

What can I even say about "Duet" that hasn't already been said? Being confronted with a Cardassian who was so traumatized by what he witnessed his own people doing to the Bajorans that he pretended to be the very Gul who ordered the killings just so he could beg the Bajorans to put him on trial and execute him! It's such a shocking reveal that it turns Kira from eagerly wanting to put him to the death, to weeping over his murder by the very kind of revenge obsessed Bajoran she started out as.

I still cry over Marritza's confession. And the worst thing was, he was absolutely right. He knew that if Cardassia didn't own up to the crimes they had committed that they would eventually be destroyed, and he was proven right as Gul Dukat's irredentist views led him to ally with the Dominion, which ended up nearly destroying Cardassia in the long run. She even finds it in her heart to welcome Ghemor as a surrogate father figure after the time spent thinking she might actually be his daughter, and fully accept that he was trying to atone both for his own actions and that of Cardassia's, eventually burying him on Bajor next to her own father. She also ends up being confronted with the consequences of her zealotry by Silarin Prin, just a humble, innocent servant who was horribly disfigured by a bombing of a prominent Gul that Kira was involved in. And yet, she's able to recognize that while what she did was not an absolute good, fully justified by what the Bajorans were subjected to, she doesn't denounce her old self and her activities. She doesn't forgive, or forget, and that goes for both her actions, and the Cardassians. That's why she was the perfect person to help the Cardassian resistance against the Dominion, because like Marritza said, to save Cardassia, they have to change, and admit that what they did was wrong. Even Garak, who is really never shown to be that remorseful over his past activities acknowledges this when Kira points out to Damar that his family being executed by the Dominion was no different from Cardassia executing the families of Bajoran freedom fighters. "Yeah, Damar, what kind of people give those orders?" Her character came full circle, and that's why it was perfect to end the series with her finally, fully taking over command of DS9.

She'll always be one of the greatest of all time.

#star trek #deep space 9 #ds9 #kira nerys

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a-secret-bolton-vampire · 28 days ago

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I finished arc 13 of Ward today. So far, arcs 9, 12, and 13 have been my absolute favourites. In finishing 13 it really hit me just how incredible this story is.

I was scared to read Ward at first, because I loved Worm so much and I wasn't sure how it could top Worm. I was also scared because it hit a lot of personal trauma triggers and became very much worried that it wouldn't do justice with it. In my mind, the worst things that Ward could do was try to get Victoria to forgive her abusers, that her bio family is the most important and she should reconcile with her mother.

My best friend (my co-author for Mending Constellations, etherealDesign) sang the praises of Ward and I eventually decided to try it out. I expected that it would be almost or just about as good as Worm. I'm more than halfway done, and I know how the rest of the story goes, but I honest to god think Ward is even better.

Taylor as a protagonist rules, she's one of the best characters I've ever read and she is insanely compelling and her arc is so beautifully tragic that I can't help but watch that tragedy unfold in awe. There are some parts of her I relate to, such as the bullying, the feeling of being a sort of social outcast, an introvert who loves reading and learning. I also really love the way her morality is written and it's so unbelievably rare for a female character to be written that way.

But Victoria is far far far more relatable. So many takes on her are so shallow and missing the nuances within her. She's so different from Taylor and yet so similar they work perfectly as foils. Taylor didn't have a social support network but had a loving family. Victoria had a social support network but not a loving family. The writing for her PTSD is so insanely on point as someone with PTSD that it hurts to read at times. I'm so happy the narrative is not punishing Victoria for not wanting to forgive her family, especially her mother and Amy, for what they did to her. In so many stories, so many that it actually boggles my mind, family is the most important thing and something that can transcend any and all hurts. Makes that moment in arc 1 where Carol wants Amy and Vic to reconcile mean so much in that context. Sometimes, a hurt cannot be reconciled with, no matter how close you once were to the person who hurt you.

I feel people who haven't experienced familial abuse might not get how much Ward gets right about it. For sure, she has a complicated relationship with her parents still, it isn't pure hatred like it is for Amy, but there is no doubting that the relationship is strained, to put it mildly, with her parents. And also, very very very much happy that there is no attempt at rehabilitating Amy's image to downplay what she did to Victoria. This is not something you downplay and even if Amy is still (somehow) a sympathetic or even relatable antagonist, this is something that just cannot ever be forgotten or forgiven.

Also, Victoria reads as unbelievably transgender. She spends 2 years as the Wretch in the hospital, and in Ward her forcefield makes her visibly uncomfortable with herself and her body. And then her costume is literally a dysphoria hoodie... Her and Sveta especially are such great examples of transgender allegories (and in the case of Sveta she literally, canonically IS trans). And on top of the PTSD, the abuse, the gender dysphoria, all these things that make me relate to Victoria so heavily... then there is the very blatantly textual dissociative plurality. There is no way that Wildbow didn't intend for Victoria, the Warrior Monk, and the Scholar to be all different people in a plural system. Not even a doubt in my mind.

Oh, and this is JUST talking about Victoria! I could go on and on about how well Ward writes mental illness, including some really, really vilified mental disorders. Ashley is (at least likely from what I've gathered from the notes Dragon sent to Vic's laptop) bipolar and definitely a clinical narcissist, but it isn't vilified, and in fact she is heavily, heavily humanized. Even Cradle, someone I'd call as close to pure evil in Parahumans as you can get, has some really really phenomenal writing that shows that he could have lived a normal life as a functional person despite a lack of empathy or remorse.

In general, mental illness in media is important to me as someone who has a personality disorder, and being able to show people who are narcissists or have antisocial tendencies as ultimately just being people and not inherently dangerous is very, very big for me.

There's so much more I could say, but Ward is nothing like I was initially led to believe. It's miles better in every way than I could've hoped for, and it has quickly come the vector for some of the best and most relatable writing of trauma and mental illness I've ever seen in media.

Ward is a story first and foremost about trauma recovery. The fact it is in the backdrop of a literal post-apocalyptic setting is not accidental. It's the best way to frame a sequel to Worm in my mind.

#worm #parahumans #ward #wardblr #victoria dallon #im honestly shocked people hate it i've waited for a story like this my entire life

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