#I did like how Armand didn't tell louis that lestat loves him

[flower-dagger-gay]

The hair is hairing✨

[lizardkingeliot]

Fair warning this is going to be a mess and my brain is running on fumes so... bear with me lol.

I'm thinking about Louis not uttering Lestat's name for 23 years until he starts unloading on a stranger trying to convince himself Lestat was nothing to him. He wasn't in LOVE what are you TALKING about. He wasn't a great musician who wrote me love songs so infuriatingly perfect I swam the Mississippi to bite him like a cat and fuck him on the floor! Lestat wasn't that great at all I promise look at me, Daniel, do I look like the sort of guy who would lie about something like that!!!

I'm thinking about how what Louis was doing here wasn't actually that at all. Armand read him for filth because he's always known who the real love of Louis' life is, hasn't he? And Louis couldn't bear it anymore. He couldn't find Lestat (which begs the question WHY they were separated after Paris if Louis knows he isn't dead at this point but I guess the show will tell us that in the upcoming episodes lol), and this was going to be his way out. Had he been searching for him in secret? Did Armand know? I'm thinking prooooobably not but I guess we'll have to see what happens in Paris and in the final three episodes to be sure why Louis was so INSISTENT he didn't want to see Lestat even while very obviously trying to do just that. I assume it has to do with the events surrounding The Trial???? A desperate attempt to protect Lestat (wherever he may be) from Armand? Who knows!

I'm thinking about Louis insisting all he did was talk trash about Lestat and Armand immediately answering... that's not exactly how you talked about him to me. Yet Armand says Lestat's name hasn't been uttered in 23 years. Which would have been around 1950 in the timeline. Right after Paris. So clearly we're meant to understand Louis confided something about the true nature of his relationship with Lestat to Armand. Yet Louis insisted right there in that coffin that Lestat was his maker and nothing more. Again, I guess we'll just have to wait for the end of the season to see how we're meant to piece that whole thing together lol.

I'm thinking about the way the show let us hear Lestat's voice as he spoke to Louis through Armand. They let US hear Lestat insisting Armand tell Louis "I love you". Yet that's not something Louis could possibly remember because he didn't hear it. Which seems confusing but it's actually confirming this theory I've had brewing in my head that the show intentionally shows us things Louis isn't actually saying in the interview. Like making out with Dreamstat in the park. If you rewatch 2x03 there's no way Louis actually told Daniel and Armand about that. Or in this case, it's the show showing us something Louis can't possibly know himself.

And I'm thinking... why? The only real reason to do that is to drive home that what we're watching is in fact the Louis and Lestat love story at its core. I mean... think about it. Every iteration we've seen of Lestat this season has been so ROMANTIC. They were so in LOVE. All the stuff Louis tried his best to omit in season one is leaking in around the cracks like sunlight through the slats of a window shade and it's only a matter of time before that shade is opened...

Also. One more thing. Not to dump allll of this in one post but....... we finally got confirmation in this episode that Armand IS messing with Louis' head and erasing things and overwriting memories and I am foaming at the mouth waiting to see what else is in there Louis doesn't know about...

[frigidwife]

do you think louis chose/believed armand over claudia in the scene after armand threatens and chokes her? i was under the impression that louis reflexively disagreed with claudia because he didn't want to believe it, but the fact that he also reflexively lit armand's photo on fire makes me think his response to claudia ("he wouldn't do that"/"sit in your choice") was a denial of the real horror he was feeling, that he did believe her and just wished it wasn't true. i rewatched that scene and when he notices the picture is on fire, he waits a second before putting it out, which makes me think his commitment to armand following this scene wasn't out of genuine love, but a strategic choice made out of fear, the same way he martyred himself for lestat to turn claudia. i still see people talking about how much louis and armand did love each other, and i was briefly convinced when madeline called it out (though that scene also contains claudia thanking armand for not treating her like a child, so the legitimacy of the entire scene is thrown into question imo). but after rewatching the season, i don't think they were that devoted to each other. between the actors deliberately playing their flirtations super awkward, the fact that louis never commits until armand threatens claudia and his commitment itself following louis' pattern of chaining himself to his current lover/shark for claudia's survival (a pattern the show goes out of its way to emphasize with lestat's retelling of her turning), and the fact that armand apparently did choose the coven over louis...idk. maybe i'm biased and just sick of the idea that armand and louis' love is some torrid gothic romance when it seems clear that louis and armand's insistence that it was in dubai is deliberately at odds with what we saw, despite how hard they were trying to make it seem that way. even the way they gassed up their first meeting felt staged, and if we're supposed to understand that louis and armand's growing physical distance in dubai denotes emotional/romantic distance as louis' memories are restored, it seems in line to realize that the distance isn't what's new, nor is the performance of love; it's the realization that it is a performance. SORRY this got long, i feel like i'm going a little crazy because i feel the show is saying the exact opposite to much of the analysis on here. in a way i would love to be convinced towards a different perspective because then i could just relax

no i agree with you completely ur not insane and neither am i.... i havent watched that episode in a while but the way the events are sequenced it's not even ambiguous--the relationship with armand is strategic and it has been since the beginning. like i dont think louis's "he wouldn't do that" is even a denial of the kind of person armand is. Bc in the previous episode armand literally almost killed louis for the same secret he's just threatened claudia about. so why would he actually disbelieve her? (laying it out like this i'm realizing why the victim blaming interpretation of louis as ditzy is so prevalent lol.) his frustration reads to me like: i've already sacrificed my freedom and happiness so you can join the coven that you love so much, and now you're saying you don't like the coven? you can't tough it out and trust i have armand handled? the disbelief in "he wouldn't do that" is not that louis wants to believe armand is a better person; it's that louis wants to believe his control over armand is more complete, bc otherwise claudia is right and his sacrifices are doubly pointless. this is the same pattern we saw with louis and his siblings as a human--telling grace to worry about herself, telling lestat how they were four months from bankruptcy; he takes pains to keep them ignorant but then is frustrated they wont register his sacrifice; they see it as him pushing them away (literal knife to paul's throat). louis starting to burn the photograph is him giving up--claudia is ungrateful; this task is impossible. but then the dream lestat which is ofc just louis calls claudia "our daughter" and that's when louis stops burning the photograph of armand. at the reminder that no matter how he tries to accept her as grown and autonomous, she's his child first. and then you can see him double down and regroup--get rid of ghost lestat indulgence to commit fully to companionship with as much control as he can leverage

[avelera]

I’m dying for your thoughts on what is going on in Dubai with the triangulation of Armand and Daniel in Dubai because nothing in 2.05 explain ms what they(beddeath vampires) could want him to tell them as referenced earlier in the season or warrant all the Rashid pageantry. Especially not with how Armand looks at Daniel like he just got home from the wars.

Your takes are exquisite and I’d love to hear them.

Ok, I THINK you're asking what the hell is going on with Daniel and Armand and Louis and the longing looks Armand keeps shooting Daniel and I might be missing some nuance to your question but that is the question I'm gonna answer because I can't stop thinking about it.

Ok. Ok, ok, SO!! The biggest question I think we're facing as of 2.05 is did the Devil's Minion chapter of Queen of the Damned ever happen?

For the uninitiated (LOTS of BOOK SPOILERS but like the books have been out for decades, sorry): Louis/Armand is like... not a thing. At least, it's not one of the big love affairs of the series compared to Louis/Lestat. I mean they've had a situationship but they're definitely not a long devoted love affair going right up to the beginning of the events of Vampire Lestat/Queen of the Damned, which is where the show seems to take place. They traveled together for a bit after the events of Interview with the Vampire but then parted ways because What Happened In Paris changed Louis irrevocably.

The big love of Armand's life in the books is Daniel.

And we learn this in the chapter of Queen of the Damned called the Devil's Minion.

Because Armand stumbles upon "The Interviewer" and falls in love and they have this fucked up whirlwind torrid romance where Daniel teaches Armand about the modern world and basically "how to be fascinating" and Daniel begs over and over to be made into a vampire.

Lots of stuff happens between them but short, TRAGIC version is that Armand does make Daniel into a vampire and it breaks Daniel's mind. He's not a cool powerful vampire once he's turned, he's basically a vegetable, he loses his mind and becomes a hollow husk of himself. (Ironically, insane-new-vampire!Daniel is left in the care of Marius of all people lol)

SO, from the book reader perspective, I shot upright on my couch when I saw old Daniel. Because Old Daniel means we're in... some flavor of happy AU? We're in an AU where Armand did the "responsible" thing and didn't give Daniel the Dark Gift, so Daniel got to grow old and actually be a person instead of being the Devil's Minion where Armand became his whole personality and then he lost his mind.

Thing is, since S1, I've been assuming, like others I think, that we're in an AU where the Devil's Minion didn't happen at all. That Daniel did the interview, he and Louis parted ways, and now he's back to finish it. It seemed neat, clear, if a little confusing for book fans because Daniel/Armand is one of THE great love affairs and it seems like it just got skipped entirely, which kind of makes sense since no other film version has really delved into it, right?

WRONG. OK, so with the longing looks that begin RIGHT when Armand finally reveals himself, the whole mic drop moment of "Armand, the love of my life" while Armand stares at Daniel, almost seeming to plead with his eyes "GET ME AWAY FROM HIM" and looking at Daniel with such longing, going into SEASON 2 where we learn that ok, the 1970s beat was WAY more complicated than it seems, Louis' memory is very faulty, Armand has actively tampered with both of them and we DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH....?

So my current theory is: the Devil's Minion DID happen.

Armand and Daniel had their love affair, but instead of turning Daniel, which by the way he had to be talked into doing because of Daniel's suicide attempt basically, Armand set him free. But CLEARLY he continued to stalk and pine after Daniel, if he was there at Daniel's fucking engagement reading his girlfriend's mind enough to tell Daniel what she was really thinking then. Armand was definitely still OBSESSIVELY IN LOVE. And, IMO, has been the whole time.

Now, what does this mean going forward? What do I think is going on?

Armand wants out of his relationship with Louis but he's chronically, pathologically, incapable of breaking up with anyone. He used Lestat to break up the Children of Darkness, he used Louis to break up the Theatre des Vampires, and now he's using Daniel to end this fucked up marriage he and Louis are in.

Armand is doing this first by consenting to renew the interview, Louis gets a walk down memory lane, remembers how much he loves Lestat. Not to solidify their bond with how good things are now, but to break it up with nostalgia.

Armand is also going to reveal things he's hidden from Louis, I think. Like the fact Armand killed Claudia. I think right now they're both operating under the excuse that Santiago and the coven did it in defiance of Armand but that is simply not true, Armand ordered her death to get Louis all to himself. But (book canon) her death broke Louis so basically Armand destroyed what he wanted in Louis in the gaining of him.

Armand also misses Daniel. He's doing the classic passive lover thing, using the next lover to get rid of the current one. That's why he picked Daniel specifically as the vehicle of his liberation. Boy wants to get white knighted in the most fucked up way possible. Evidence: every single painfully longing, puppy dog look he shoots Daniel's way and how those looks only get more intense the more Louis waxes poetic about how great the Loumand relationship is.

Armand appears as Rashid in order to establish for plausible deniability for Louis that he DIDN'T have a relationship with Daniel OR, if Louis knows about it, that he really did do as promised and wiped Daniel's mind. Look, Daniel doesn't even remember him! When he's standing right there! Pretending to be Rashid! He definitely didn't summon his former lover here to break up Louis and him, obviously this is JUST about Louis' desire to do the interview haha, definitely not trying to bring his old ex to break up his current relationship the guy doesn't even remember who he is.

In conclusion: Armand still wants to fuck that boy old man. And he wants to get rid of Louis by making Louis break up with him because that's how Armand rolls. And that's why this whole ridiculous pantomime is happening, because Armand will never, ever be the active party in the breakup because the boy is way, way too fucked up by his supremely fucked up life up to this point to ever be the initiator. Instead he will always, always manipulate those around him to do what he wants.

[prouvaireafterdark]

Hi! As someone just coming into reading the books but who's been with the show since day 1, I'm curious about why people take Lestat's narrative in TVL with 100% sincerity when the premise of the show seems to be interrogating the dissonance that everybody's versions create. Obviously there's some big things that are definitely going to be true, but I'd personally be disappointed if we got a straight adaptation of unfiltered Lestat perspective on events, haha!

I think you're conflating sincerity with some idea of omniscient, objective accuracy, which, as you note, is a useless thing to search for in a show where memory is continually shown to be an unreliable monster.

Lestat's version of events in TVL is sincere, though. He's speaking from the heart and he's trying to give the story of his life, mostly by sharing his truth about what his life before meeting Louis was like, and in part by filling in the gaps Louis leaves us with about what happened at Rue Royale. His recollection may turn out to be as faulty and biased as Louis' or Armand's has been shown to be in the show, but that doesn't make it any less sincere.

And I'm not implying that Louis is lying or anything. I'm talking about him not mentioning or glossing over the happy memories that meant a lot to Lestat and made up, for him, a big part of what it was to share a home with Louis and Claudia for so long. Giving Lestat the space to talk about his love for Louis and Claudia doesn't erase the abuse he inflicted on them in those moments of instability and rage. I don't get why people are so resistant to seeing that. It's not like it makes everything better. If anything, it makes it worse that he loved them so much.

What's important to note, too, is that at no point does Lestat in his retelling excuse himself for anything he did to Louis and Claudia and I doubt very much we would see him do that in future seasons of the show. Lestat even says it himself that he deserved what Claudia did to him. The way things worked out between the three of them is his greatest, deepest regret and it will haunt him for the rest of his immortal life.

Also, not for nothing, what we've gotten this season and last season are the unfiltered perspectives of Louis, Claudia, and Armand. That's not to say they're lying or intentionally obfuscating (okay, well, Armand totally is), but that is what we got---a narrative that was really challenged only by Daniel and not by anyone who was actually there who remembers it differently. I don't see why we shouldn't also get Lestat's unfiltered version, especially considered he is the main protagonist of the Vampire Chronicles series going forward.

For me and many others, it's not about excusing anything. It's all about contextualizing his decisions. Like, Lestat didn't just wake up one day and decide it would be fun to destroy his family. I want him to tell me in his own words (which, as a reminder, he has yet to do at any point in this series so far) what drove him to do the horrible things he did and how he really feels about it. When we do hopefully get that, I expect the fandom to interrogate his accounts as vigorously as they did Louis' and Armand's and Claudia's.

And to answer your question regarding the books specifically, we have Anne herself to blame for that. She wrote IWTV when she was battling some of the most intense grief and despair a person can feel. She had just lost her child. Writing the book was an outlet for that and you can feel it as you read Louis' perspective. When she decided to continue the series, though, she changed her mind about a lot of things---mainly who Lestat was as a character and how she had come to hate the "weakness" in Louis (which was really because she came to hate the "weakness" she saw in herself as she came out on the other side of her grief and identified with him less and Lestat more). There is a very real dissonance between who Lestat is in IWTV and who he is in TVL and beyond. The way she accounted for that in her own writing was that Louis was misconstruing certain events by leaving things out or straight up making things up like their reunion in NOLA at the end of IWTV, which Lestat claims never happened. The reason people take Lestat's words at face value sometimes isn't usually because they hate Louis or think he lied about Lestat's abuse. It's because Anne, as the writer of the story, wanted the reader to doubt Louis' version in favor of Lestat's because she had changed her mind about the direction of the story and the characters she created.

It's also worth noting that, in the actual text of the show, that version of events taken from the book, the content of the original interview, is described by Louis himself as an admitted performance. I think it's a perfectly legitimate reading to consider IWTV (the book) in the context of Louis trying to get Lestat's attention with something he knew would upset him, like Armand suggests was Louis' fantasy, because he wanted or needed to see him again.

This got long and rambley so I'll just leave you with the wise, wise words of Samothy Reid when asked to give one truth and one lie in the show: Everybody lies. Everybody lies.

I don't think that will change if we finally get Lestat's POV so imo people should just relax and enjoy the ride.

[chuck-the-goon]

I've been playing around with the idea that maybe Armand subconsciously wanted an out from his relationship with Louis. We know that Armand isn't very good at instigating change himself; an example of this was using Lestat to reform his coven because it wouldn't be believable coming from him that the old ways weren't working (the same thing happened with Louis in Paris and Louis was trying to offer Armand a way to change the coven dynamics). And I think he did the same thing by letting Daniel interview Louis; Armand must have known how skilled Daniel had become in his work as a journalist, and would leave no stone unturned, and yet Armand let the interview happen. Yes he didn't like Louis telling his story again, but being a powerful five hundred year old vampire, with a gift for editing memories, he could have easily put a stop to all of it, right from the beginning. But he let someone with an unbiased perspective into their lives, call the shots and tell it how it is, and the big lie Armand has carefully hidden and coveted, came out.

The look Armand gave Daniel before he chased after Louis was one of incredulity, but I saw a hint of resignation there too, anger was the weakest emotion shown. And on top of all of that, Armand could have easily kept track of Daniel's mind and thought process throughout the entire interview, and again, had every chance to stop him, but he didn't.

Daniel in the 70's became a test to the durability of Armand and Louis's relationship, and played the same role this time around. And in the 70's even when Louis tried to convince Armand that Lestat was nothing more to him than his maker, it was clear that Louis was lying to himself and Armand knew this (again probably subconsciously if not outright).

So to sum up everything, Armand let Daniel destroy his companionship because he couldn't do it himself, and he needed it to hit home hard because if he argued that Louis loved Lestat more than him, Louis would lie to himself again (and Armand) and they would be stuck in the same unsatisfying relationship. (This is probably a little far fetched, Armand is good at directing and manipulating people, but to have planned and orchestrated the destruction of his relationship from the beginning is rather unlikely, but it's food for thought that he had so many opportunities to save his seventy seven year relationship, but didn't)

[thedailydescent]

The thing is though that it doesn't matter.

People clamor against the idea that Louis ever loved or even liked Armand, and that he was just with him out of fear/to protect Claudia. That narrative quickly falls apart when you look at how completely at ease he was with embarrassing Armand in front of the coven, the promise he made to Claudia that he broke when he tried burning Armand's photo, then couldn't because of the soul he managed to capture. The additional knowledge since 2x03 that Armand is heavily influenced by the coven and their demands, and even after a year and half of them being together, he is still so. How it would have made more sense, if Louis was just with him for survival's sake or to protect Claudia, to leave Paris with Armand already recommending that he leave with his blessing. Madeleine feeling Louis's love for Armand (which wasn't her misreading it as love for Lestat, and, as far as I'm aware, is not canon either). How the very premise of the interview is about Louis processing his grief for Claudia and how he failed her. How the writing, cast, and crew emphasize that Louis feels a certain amount of entitlement towards Claudia, how he never truly put her first despite his best efforts, and how that doesn't make Louis a bad person, but a person shaped by and is stuck in traumatic circumstances.

Same with people accusing Louis of using Armand/not loving Armand the "right way". 95% of garbage "pimp Louis" takes and fics with poor unloved helpless Armand suffering the most from their roleplaying or Louis's cruising. Nevermind what was actually shown onscreen, what the cast and crew tell us.

But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if Louis didn't do everything he could to protect Claudia. It doesn't matter if Louis was indeed a terrible partner to Armand (he wasn't btw). Nothing would have justified what Armand did to Louis and Claudia. Louis shouldn't have to be on 24/7 survival mode to avoid him and Claudia being lynched. If Louis had indeed been an awful person to both Claudia and Armand, he still wouldn't have at fault for the trial, or been the reason it happened. He is still the wronged party here. For the deception leading up to it, for the torture, for the racial trauma inflicted on him and past trauma used against him, for being buried and starved in rocks for days, for the murder of Claudia and Madeleine, and for the lies and manipulation 73 years afterwards. Louis doesn't need to be the perfect victim for Armand to still be the bad one. Armand could have prevented it at any time. Louis could not, nor should have had to.

Similar idea to people saying Louis never asked Armand to erase his memories. If we were to take burnt Louis taking a shower after three days as true (which I do), isn't the issue not, "It doesn't make sense therefore Armand is lying", but more, Armand's blood is so powerful it can heal a severely burnt person enough to be able to take a shower within a short period of time, yet he purposefully withheld it from Louis during those 5/6 nights in San Francisco? Or, Armand erased Louis's memories at Louis's request but also included said request for it, leaving him to rely on Armand on what is true and what isn't? Armand doesn't actually look any better here if he's telling the truth!

Likewise, since people parallel the two situations, some people were still questioning for months after Season 1 aired if Lestat had been telling the truth that he didn't kill Paul (which I always believed), that I guess Sam Reid grew impatient with that and finally said "Can we stop asking if Lestat killed Paul?!" or something. And it's true, Lestat didn't mind-control Paul to commit suicide. That still doesn't negate the fact that Lestat did get into Paul's head at dinner threatening him and his family, used his mental illness against him, leaving him frightened for Louis until the day he died. That still doesn't negate the fact that for 26 years, Lestat let Louis sit on whether he did or didn't. Louis died the day Paul was buried, but Lestat never comforted him about Paul, never brought up Paul, and changed the subject whenever Louis brought up his family. Lestat, in short, never considered Louis's grief or paranoia against him, nor cared to. For 26 years, he did not care.

[nalyra-dreaming]

Wow. I totally forgot about Louis the Pimp that I was like what is this out of character thing Louis is doing at the bench? Where is this dominant energy coming from? My mouth was open the entire time. (Not gonna lie - found it kinda sexy) He was moping around this season and his art hobby wasn't going well. He put himself under Claudia's care then Armand in a way. Now it's like he found a purpose. And what a shitty situation he feels he has to put himself in. He found Armand's weakness and exploited it. He couldn't do that with Lestat in the same way, maybe indirectly. He doesn't do it on purpose with Claudia with her journals but he still does. Man has a talent.

Did you notice how she gave her diaries willingly to Santiago? Ugh. Now Santiago is gonna use them... Ugh. So much happened this episode.

So... for me it seems as if Louis is reverting into the "known persona of Louis pre Lestat" - which was business man Louis... Louis the pimp.

He locked a part of himself up - let Lestat "go"... and it hardened him.

And yes, as Jacob said in the Episode Insider Louis himself has quite a few toxic traits as well. And he uses them, and not only in this.

I disagree that he didn't do it with Lestat - he very much did. He withheld affection, and withheld telling Lestat that he loved him, for example. He exploited Lestat's fear of abandonment, and he knows it, which was that comment in episode 2x03 was about after all.

And Claudia... gave ONE diary to Santiago. She did not give him the black ones. And for good reason, too.

Because those will be used against her in the trial, I bet.

[cbrownjc]

I apologise in advance for the length. I wanted your take on one specific part of 2x5 that bothered me a little and is partially why my little DM shipper hope wavered (that and being burned by ongoing shows in the past). Both you and @nalyra-dreaming have brilliantly pointed out how the episode does a great job at recreating the horror origin where Daniel is kept in the cellar and I wholeheartedly agree. However, what has bothered me about it is that, in the episode, it is not Armand that chooses to let Daniel live. Granted, in the book it's more a stay of execution than anything else, but it's still his choice alone. In 2x5 that choice is now Louis'. And while I know that in the novel Armand considers Daniel a gift from Louis, part of me is bothered by this slight lack of agency. It felt to me like just another thing Armand did to comply to Louis' wants in his desperation to not lose him. And that any Chase that happens is not necessarily out of genuine curiosity but because Louis called Armand boring and Armand just wants to know what set Daniel apart for Louis.

And then my brain goes "fruit of the poisonous tree" and am then afraid that Daniel's meaning wrt Armand (which, to my great frustration, I have already seen other book readers diminish) will literally be: oh he's just the scraps Armand gets because he couldn't have Louis or Lestat (because of the horrors, he did all of it, etc). I don't WANT it to be that and I guess I'm a little terrified about it.

Idk what to make of any of it and I'm nervous because I REALLY want to see this pairing develop as they deserve. So please, tell me what I'm missing in my rambling and borderline incoherent concern. Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my sanity's only hope. ^_~

Hi!

Okay, well, I will try to be your Ben Kenobi here, but remember, even he failed to see what was going on with Annikin before it was too late . . .

Yeah, okay that isn't very confidence-giving, is it? 😬 🙃

Anyway! 🤭

Okay, so on the first point:

I have actually seen one or two people point out the fact that it was Louis who basically intervened and stopped Armand from killing Daniel, and Armand didn't do so himself. And I'm not going to say I can't see yours and some other's point about this. All I can say about that point for now is that we don't know what happens right now between Daniel and Armand after Daniel was let go and dropped off at the drug den. Because there might actually come a point when Armand thinks he very well could kill Daniel and Louis would have no idea, as Louis only requests that Daniel live out "this night." There was no request from Louis to Armand for Daniel to live out his whole life.

So we might actually get a moment, in the future, where we see a time when Armand decides to just kill Daniel -- but, just like with Louis in the tunnel back in the 40s -- stays his own hand via his own decision to do so.

So, I think on this point right now, the only thing any of us can do is take a "wait and see" about it. But there are still doors open to Armand deciding on his own to spare Daniel's life in a significant way I think. With him not even being in love with Daniel yet at the time too IMO.

So, on to the second point:

No, I very much do not think Daniel is going to be seen as "scraps" that Armand gets because he couldn't have Louis or Lestat. And I think what is going to come into play to make that clear is the slight change the show has done wrt Armand's character and the Great Laws. After the Children of Darkness/Satan coven busted up, Armand in the book really didn't hold those rules in any high regard anymore. But the show has very clearly changed that, to where Armand was ready to kill Louis because Louis broke many of the Great Laws.

Assad himself made this clear that Armand really was going to kill Louis and only didn't do it because he chose love instead.

And if you take a look at the full list of the Great Laws that someone was amazingly able to translate, as well as this gifset of a specific scene from 2x03, a vampire being with a human in such a way is a direct violation of those laws that Armand in the show clearly holds to.

So for Armand to break that rule and choose to be with Daniel? Will not be a small thing.

So I think that alone will show that Daniel is not just a scrap. Armand's love for Daniel will be so much that he will, once again, ignore a rule he once held fast to in order to, once again, choose love.

And then, of course, there is the fact that Armand chose to actually break his biggest rule of all for Daniel, which is to never turn someone into another vampire -- which is also one of the laws the cult drilled into him. Yes, Armand's main reason for not doing so in the books was because he didn't want to damn someone into vampirism, as well as not believing that the Maker/Fledgling relationship can ever really work. But the other reason that I feel the show will also touch upon will very much also be because of the Great Law that older vampires should never work the Dark Trick upon someone, less that fledgling be too powerful in the blood.

But Armand's love for Daniel will be so great that he will not bear the thought of Daniel actually dying. And so, when the moment comes, he will not only break that Great Law, but his own personal reason why he doesn't want to turn someone. And he would rather face having to truly put his fear and belief about Markers and Feldglings to the side (and maybe still lose Daniel that way -- which in the books, he actually did for a time!) than lose Daniel forever via death.

Again, that has never seemed to me as Daniel just being a "scrap" to Armand, even when it comes to the books. But I expect the show will put an even greater emphasis on this, both when it comes to Armand's backstory and how now Armand in the show actually holds to those laws in a serious way.

So yeah, just some of my thoughts on those two points. I hope they can calm you somewhat but, if not, just know that, because of the format this story is now being told in, that will very much lend to things -- the characters and their relationships with each other -- to be even more fleshed out, along with character arcs to be planned out overall as well. (Which yes, not every TV show does, but this one is clearly doing so.) We won't get every answer to these things right away, but I think there are many doors open to exploring these things in a satisfying way over the course of the show. 🙂

[loustat-0]

I need to say something here because I don't like this attitude that some people have about dreamlestat .

In the books Lestat didn't have much screen time in the second half of the book . Yes that's true although I talked about it in another post that it was probably because Louis was a hypocrite & wanted to make himself he's much happier & content in Paris without Lestat 😏

Do you realize what having dreamlestat even if it's unlike the book means ? You guys say that they did it because " they wanted to do a fan service for Loustat fans & Lestat fans " . Okay but do you realize what this means for future seasons ????

Louis's character in the books doesn't have a lot of screen time either so if the show wants to give us more Louis it has to go differently from the books Which is also fan service to Louis's fans again . You don't like it when it comes to Lestat how about when it's Louis's turn ???? Have you thought of that at all ??? 😬

There is some stuff that they absolutely have to change compared to the books to make it more dramatic because a live version of something always has differences compared to its book . If the differences fill the voids that's so much better than the books then . Why complain ???

For example one of the voids I always felt reading the first book & watching the movie was that after Louis saw Armand & the coven knew Lestat & specifically after Claudia's death Louis didn't even mind asking Armand about how he knew Lestat at all . It's a big void in the story & Louis was very passive about it after Claudia . So the show probably has filled this void Armand is gonna tell us his pov about his relationship with Lestat now . And he probably has told Louis about him in the past too . There are definitely going to be some changes in the show that some people love & some people don't love . It's okay as long as the changes are explained to the fans logically .

[avelera]

Gif courtesy of @apaethy

I just finished re-watching the first season of Interview with the Vampire because in light of what's going on as of 2.6 of S2, I felt I needed to, because this moment above is driving me crazy.

Why is Armand staring straight at Daniel during Louis' declaration? And why is it that, to me, he almost seems to plead with his eyes for Daniel to get him away from Louis?

My thoughts on the matter:

Doylist reasons (aka, out of universe, production, practical reasons): this is a big reveal that "Rashid" is actually Armand. It makes sense, from that angle, as an acting choice that Armand-no-longer-Rashid would look straight at the camera so we could get a good look at him.

Thing is, it's certainly a choice.

Because I would argue the more logical choice when having one character declare the other is the love of their life is for those characters to look at each other. Even a passing glance, a faint smile, a little bit of heart eyes.

Louis just gave a pretty romantic declaration. Actually, even more haunting as of 2.6, Louis just said out loud that he loves Armand in this straightforward, unambiguous, but frighteningly passive way that he refused to do back in Paris, what Madeleine had to cajole him into saying. Now Louis drops the L word all casual, almost as a challenge, right in Daniel's face??

Daniel Molloy voice: Nuh uh, I don't buy it, not for a second.

Ok, let's get into a meta reason this is a really freakin' weird moment and scene that they chose to use as the final note of Season 1, and therefore I think it's meant to be important and, as of Season 2, I think we're seeing the crux of why it's the end of one season and the set up of the next.

Metatextual reason: Armand is not the fucking love of Louis's life in the books. He's barely a footnote, unless that footnote is labeled, "THE VAMPIRE WHO KILLED CLAUDIA". Louis and Armand's relationship, such as it was, soured immediately after her death. They didn't stick together for decades, from the text they barely stuck together a few years after that. Armand wasn't at the Interview with Daniel (but he did pick up Daniel later, when kidnapping him when Daniel went to investigate Lestat's house and look for evidence to corroborate Louis' story).

So as a book fan, I sat up in my chair and audibly shouted, "What the fuck?" at that line. Because as I'm sure anyone who has read this far knows by now, in the books Louis is not the love of Armand's life.

Daniel is the love of Armand's life.

Daniel is Armand's only fledgling, ever.

So not only is there a weird declarative quality to the almost nonsensical (to book readers) statement that Armand is the love of Louis's life-- I don't know how else to explain it except it's like having a revival of Romeo and Juliet where they didn't die and Romeo's early girlfriend Rosaline show up to say that Romeo is the love of her life in Juliet's face. Do you see what I mean? Daniel/Armand is Romeo and Juliet, Louis the temporary fling. Having Rosaline tell Juliet that Romeo is her love would give a similar level of dissonance as I got hearing Louis/Armand was a thing over and above Daniel/Armand.

So to go back to Armand's creepy eye contact here (as if he has any other kind).

Watsonian Reason (aka, in-universe, what the story is going for): We are setting up the plot that becomes much more apparent in S2: Daniel was invited to Dubai to be the wrecking ball in Louis/Armand's relationship.

Which means the big canon divergence moments from the book are:

1. Louis and Armand didn't break up right after Paris, but stayed a couple for several decades longer.

2. Regardless of whether or not the Devil's Minion happened already (or if it's going to happen later in this story), Armand didn't turn Daniel into a vampire soon after meeting him a few years post-Interview with the Vampire. That event got pushed back.

My money is on Armand and Daniel had their fling but Armand refused to turn him. It's a fairly logical canon divergence beat because Armand didn't want to turn Daniel in the books either so in this universe, he just actually followed through and did the responsible thing.

But, I think Armand pined. And pined. And pined.

Whether or not Armand is Alice turning down Daniel's proposal (I at this point disagree with the theory) or if he was just stalking Daniel closely enough to read Alice's thoughts in that moment, he clearly has been keeping tabs on Daniel.

In my opinion, Armand is finally done with the relationship with Louis.

The interview is meant to passively accomplish these things:

Remind Louis how much he loves Lestat.

Remind Louis how much he loves Claudia and by extension if/when it "slips out" just how culpable Armand actually was (as the mastermind, not a bystander) for her death, it will give Louis the impetus to finally leave.

Bring Daniel back into their life. Because whether or not he'll admit it to himself, Armand has been pining for him over Louis for a while now.

I've kind of already explored this in another post but the more I watch of S2 and re-watch of S1, the more certain I am that this is Armand's actual goal. The pining looks he keeps shooting Daniel's way, the way Daniel seems to lose his train of thought whenever he looks at Armand, the palpable tension between them...

Basically, Romeo and Juliet are getting back together soon. We just need to get Rosaline out of the picture first, and that's why Romeo is having an interview that digs up what a shitty boyfriend he was to Rosaline so that Rosaline will break up with him first so he can get back with Juliet.

[winepresswrath]

genuinely don't understand how lestat nation is mad about that last episode. we have established.

Louis still thinks of Lestat as the one he trusts, is violently guilty and also horny about him

the final thing that makes him stop circling armand and go for it is confirmation that lestat and armand fucked. like they are clearly attracted to each other on their own merits but they are also appropriating lesbian culture.

lestat has the most magical dick in paris. probably europe. possibly the world. everyone who looks at him falls in love with him a little and no one who fucks him ever gets over it.

armand specifically isn't over it. 200 years later louis by his side he's still like that.

there is a 0% chance there isn't more to the nicki stuff. armand didn't even mention gabrielle and hannah moscovitch has already said gabby is what she's most looking forward to in season three (hard same). also if lestat did tell his creepy boyfriend kidnapping stalker he loved him as a distraction so he could run away the only thing he did wrong was not taking the boyfriend with him. he owes armand less than nothing! i love armand but if lestat wanted to slit his throat and leave him in a swamp he'd be justified in that. he doesn't, which is great for me, but that is the one person besides his dad and i guess the ghost of magnus where he can do whatever he wants forever and it's fine. unholy trinitity of bad men who were bad to him when he was vulnerable and couldn't fight back. if claudia hated him less they could talk about it. however, speaking of bad men who are bad to people. oops.

[toriangeli]

I get the impression that the writers didn’t expect people to be that invested in Armand which is odd bc he’s a popular book character but. It almost seems to me like they thought everyone would be invested in Lestat and Louis only and they can do whatever with Armand. I still think he was well-written for the most part don’t get me wrong. However.

I think his motivations are muddled in this version of the story and it’s weird that he had no strong relationships to anyone all season. The Louis thing didn’t matter to either of them that much bc he was willing to let him die (weird), nothing with Daniel yet, didn’t seem very upset with the coven members dying and didn’t even seem to hate Claudia all that much?

I feel like they didn't think we'd love him if he was as much of a maniac as he was in the books? Crazy time to start worrying about what their audience thinks. ffs, Rolin talked about how bad they felt for Armand upon rereading the second half of book 1 and then didn't even quote the line that made them feel so bad for him in the first place (the thing about how he's done everything for Louis and Louis doesn't love him and seems totally dead to him).

He was definitely very attached to Louis, but Louis' lack of attachment to him and Daniel's utter contempt guided the audience's opinion a lot more than the softening of his terribleness. Even if it's not their intent, he comes across as the least favorite child. Lestat dropped Louis from the sky and gets a pass, but Armand did...what, exactly? Louis forgave him for playing a part with Claudia's death, but being willing to let Louis die was unforgivable, even after he pulled Louis out of the sun? And Rolin talked about how these were genuine attempts from Armand to be better, to be good to Louis, only to be met in 2.05 with the bleak understanding that none of it meant jack shit to Louis, it was all just a sign of Armand being a boring person who did boring things. "As empathetic as possible," says Rolin, but the actual audience is taking its cues from audience surrogate Daniel, whose opinion isn't based on Armand's experiences or even Louis' experiences, but his own. His entire take on the situation is centered around what Armand did to him, so he ignores anything that could actually make him see where Armand is coming from. He even calls his tragic backstory into question. And don't tell me Armand lied so much he deserved that. Nobody deserves it. Anyway, according to Rolin, Armand lied about two things: who saved Louis at the trial, and how involved he was in the trial itself, and all subsequent lies were covering up those two. Do you ever see Armand bringing up his tragic backstory when he isn't asked to do so? He plays victim about other things, sure, but never about that.

And frankly, some of the things he plays victim about, he has the right to be pissed about. It feels like nobody really grasps 2.05 with any sense of compassion for both Louis and Armand--it's always one or the other of them in total wrong. Either Louis is emotionally abusive during their fight, or Armand tortured and neglected him and made the whole situation about himself.

What if both things can be true, but we understand where they're both coming from? That's the thing about dark fiction: we can actually look critically at relationships like these and see nuance. It's not safe to do that in real life unless you're the therapist involved, but in fiction? We can actually look and see and think. Don't do that if you're in a toxic relationship irl, just get out.

Louis is using drugs to run away from something Armand could have prevented. There's kind of a karma in Armand being forced to be his caretaker. At the same time, I know what being the codependent in a relationship feels like, so...yes, Armand making the situation about himself makes a lot of sense because no situation is ever about himself. He drags Louis out of the sun, and we never talk about how traumatic that is for both of them. Rightly, the focus is on Louis, because Louis is the primary victim in the situation, but he's not the only one traumatized by his own suicide attempt. We, the audience, have the capacity to have empathy for them both, but we seldom do. Instead, we see Armand doing something wrong--the secondary victim demanding understanding from the primary one--and focus way too much on that instead of why.

People feel sorry for themselves because they're overcompensating for the fact that only they ever seem to validate their own experiences. Judging by some of Sam's attitude, I suspect the last person who told Armand "you went through something fucked up and it's okay to not be okay about it" was Marius. Right before the attempt, Louis actively invalidated some of the worst shit Armand ever went through, so sure. I obviously don't agree with Armand's actions in the aftermath, but the important thing is, I'd consider it shitty, shitty writing if the writers decided everyone should immediately be able to act rationally about this. That's not how people work. It's the opposite of how Armand should work. Armand is so poorly socialized, he doesn't know the unwritten social codes, or even why he does what he does. And any time someone calls him out, they can't seem to do so without invalidating completely unrelated traumas he's had.

You can say, "Oh, well, this season was Louis' story, so of course they focused on Louis' perspective," but here's the problem with that: we are not getting a The Vampire Armand season. It wouldn't make sense. The only two main characters who are in those flashbacks are Armand and Marius. That means sidelining almost every series regular for an entire season if they did a TVA season. If every POV character (Daniel, Louis, and Lestat) has total contempt for Armand, exactly when is the audience supposed to have things cleared up for them?

[ace-of-d1am0nds]

mind if i ask a few follow up questions? there's just some things I've been jotting down along the way.

yea- it's. it's just small stuff like, um... like you and the tractor salesman.. in the Bar in new orleans, before you Killed him. You Said that lestat telepathically told you that you were Scaring the salesman. But a maker can't do that anymore after transformation right?

yea.. i figured as much.. uhh.. you said that four escaped the theater, celeste, estelle, santiago and...

Right the vampire sam barclay.

did you ever.. Get to him?

A DJ?

Does He? it's Funny cause sam's in two places at once at one point in your story. he's Guarding Armand in the theater box but you also have him helping to Bury you below stage.

oh.. maybe he did a quick Vamp back and forth?

I'd be Honored! Okay, um, let me just look at my list one more time here. uh, another new orleans thing. i'm.. i'm sorry i'm jumping all over the place here but the Night that Lestat brings all those Soldiers home and you tell him to throw them out. how many soldiers did he Mind Fuck out of the townhouse that night?

Ten? Fifteen?

huh.

oh well it seems to me, i mean back to the Trial again, it seems to me.. that there was More than One Person in the Theater that night who could have Saved you.

i Know, i Know. it's My Job. i'm Built this way. i Know. it- it's a Stretch but um...

well you said it Yourself just now, he Loved louis. lestat would have tried to save him as much as You did.

uh.. "santiago.. should.. hand the diary into the audience.. have them feel.. the evidence in their hands.. this is too early.. for lestat to acknowledge Louis.. Keep the Tension.. have him look at louis later, the moment he describes meeting him in new orleans." these are must some notes.. along the margins.. here uhh.. "we need an Animation here. it's not Clear how Extreme the Hoarding was-"

read it for Yourself.

he didn't Witness the Play. he DIRECTED THE PLAY!

where does the Bullshit start, Armand, Amadeo, ARUN? YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO DIE WITH CLAUDIA! HE DIDN'T SAVE YOU!

LESTAT DID

HE JUST TOOK CREDIT FOR IT WHEN THE OPPORTUNITY PRESENTED ITSELF- AND YOU WASTED EVERYONE WHO COULD'VE TOLD YOU DIFFERENTLY. SEVENTY SEVEN YEARS BASED ON A

SEISMIC LIE!

it's from the Talamasca. sam was their Guy in Paris, He gave it to Them, They gave it to me Here

[blacclotusss]

No Pain

My thoughts and opinions on IWTV s02e03: No Pain

Talamasca

This whole scene with the Talamasca agent did confuse me for a bit. It threw me off when he began acting as if he were talking on the phone, but I was definitely locked into it. He's the RJ sending Daniel things as he's talking with Armand and I want to know what he knows and how Daniel will use it in this situation. I need to know what his role will be in unpacking all of whatever is going to come out in the end. 

Lestat & Armand's Relationship

Dumpster fire, just as I thought. I can see the appeal of it and the way Armand showcased his power was everything to me. Him knocking and turning Lestat every way but loose was hilarious, but I always love seeing Lestat lose. I called it a dumpster fire because you could kind of tell that it wasn't anything deeper than the lust they had for each other, at least in the way Armand told it. There seems to be a lot of omission on Armand's part and I wish I could search his brain to see exactly what it was he left out. Maybe as the season goes on, we'll see more of what's inside that head and underneath that mysterious exterior.  

Louis and Armand's First Dates

In the words of Johnny Gill: My. My. My. The way this date took so many twists and turns I could hardly keep up. Firstly, it was fun to see their little banter about the blocking of thoughts. Even when it got a bit intense with Armand clocking every time Louis thought about that man, it wasn't too crazy and we were able to see them reel it back in. Louis mentions letting Armand in instead of allowing his thoughts to spill and I want to know if Louis even trusts Armand that much to allow that if he could block his thoughts. But, the real kicker was when the two stopped to talk by the river. Flirty Louis is one of my favorite facets of the man and he was laying it on thick. Everything from the way the words rolled off of his tongue to the head movements to the accent was pure perfection. And the way he walked up into Armand's space as if he were going to kiss him...chef's kiss on everyone's part. I loved the way Armand was taken aback, yet intrigued, with Louis' responses as well.  

Now, the intensity of the date in the little bar was through the roof. I'm still wondering why Louis is calling himself a whore for being out with other men. I know there's a reason, but I can't get my thoughts together on it. Maybe someone can help me out with that. Is it him still feeling attached to this man as his first real love? Is it the pain and brokenness coming through? Is it guilt for killing his love and leaving him back home? And the way Armand picks his brain apart and gets him to confess his relationship with Lestat was really something. It's pretty sad to see Louis' thoughts, feelings, and pain affect him like this. He deserves some happiness.  

Claudia Talking About Bruce

Wow. This woman has been through so damn much in her life it's baffling. In season one, we see Louis omit the details of her assault so we didn't know the severity of it. Here, we still don't have gruesome detail (thank God) but to just think about the fact that she was not only assaulted once, but multiple times and kept under the floorboards by him. Do you know how insane that is? To not know when it'll ever stop. When they'll get tired of your "gloomy faces"? Every person Claudia has encountered has done her wrong. Every. Single. One. And that including Louis as well because he didn't even have to have her turned in the first place. I know the coven is going to put her through it even more than they already have, but I'll save that for later. Oh how I wish she could live her life the way she wants with no one in her way or trying to put her in a box. 

Armand Choosing Love

Oh these two. THESE TWO. Every scene with them has my stomach doing flips. Firstly, can we talk about that tunnel scene? It's a scene that should put fear in your heart for Louis, but it's simply a build up for their first kiss in my opinion. Louis is ready to die and he's preparing himself for it while Armand stands behind him like an ominous being running his fingers through his curls and down the back of his neck. It just sends shivers down your spine in the best way. "You walked me home?" "Did I?" Please! The little moment the two share before Armand walks up to him...whew. I don't know if Armand is telling the truth about being hurt (I have an inclination that he is), I'd like to think he is, but the wavering in both of their voices hit me in the chest. The kiss?! Resuscitate me, immediately! The caresses on the face and the way Armand pulls him back in each time! I had to fan myself each time I watched it (yes, I watched it numerous times and no, it's not weird.) Just when you think it's over, Louis invites the man upstairs and I need to see the tape! But, Armand choosing love and choosing something for himself definitely opens the door for the coven to do as they please with Claudia since Maitre isn't doing his job and this frightens me.  

Claudia and Her Role in the Coven

Were they hazing my girl in this episode?! All this for a speck of a spot in this coven? Electric chair just for that. And as soon as Claudia thinks she's in and has met her people, they betray her by making her play a little girl...and for 50 years at that. She's been trying to get out of this "little girl" role for the longest and now she's stuck. I can't imagine the way she's feeling about this. And we also see Armand getting involved with her physically, which...oh boy. It's just a hot mess all around. I now see what Armand meant when he said his name was in those pages and why he wouldn't want them seen. Some part of me is still being delusional about her fate. Maybe she will survive and live her life the way she planned (yes, I know this is not reality.)  

[armandsfangs]

Armand was probably not surprised, he saw Louis as a rebound for Lestat too.

"Lestat Lestat Lestat Lestat Lestat - THE NAME unuttered in our home for 23 years said OVER AND OVER AGAIN until it was pounding in my brain like a hammer - You threw her name around for cover but it always circled back to him - "

Also when Louis was talking about Dreamstat in the interview Armand said smth like he didn't realize how present Lestat was in their relationship.

That definitely reads as surprised to me.

Please know that I love Armand (see: my entire tumblr) but bro (gn) when a man tells you point blank that he's not over his ex and you still decide to pursue a relationship with him... that's a case of Should Have Seen That Coming, Did Not See That Coming.

(I absolutely agree that Armand was also rebounding but I also think this man has all the self-awareness of a boiled potato)