#I did like how Armand didn't tell louis that lestat loves him

[bloodbatty]

The hair is hairing✨

[lizardkingeliot]

Fair warning this is going to be a mess and my brain is running on fumes so... bear with me lol.

I'm thinking about Louis not uttering Lestat's name for 23 years until he starts unloading on a stranger trying to convince himself Lestat was nothing to him. He wasn't in LOVE what are you TALKING about. He wasn't a great musician who wrote me love songs so infuriatingly perfect I swam the Mississippi to bite him like a cat and fuck him on the floor! Lestat wasn't that great at all I promise look at me, Daniel, do I look like the sort of guy who would lie about something like that!!!

I'm thinking about how what Louis was doing here wasn't actually that at all. Armand read him for filth because he's always known who the real love of Louis' life is, hasn't he? And Louis couldn't bear it anymore. He couldn't find Lestat (which begs the question WHY they were separated after Paris if Louis knows he isn't dead at this point but I guess the show will tell us that in the upcoming episodes lol), and this was going to be his way out. Had he been searching for him in secret? Did Armand know? I'm thinking prooooobably not but I guess we'll have to see what happens in Paris and in the final three episodes to be sure why Louis was so INSISTENT he didn't want to see Lestat even while very obviously trying to do just that. I assume it has to do with the events surrounding The Trial???? A desperate attempt to protect Lestat (wherever he may be) from Armand? Who knows!

I'm thinking about Louis insisting all he did was talk trash about Lestat and Armand immediately answering... that's not exactly how you talked about him to me. Yet Armand says Lestat's name hasn't been uttered in 23 years. Which would have been around 1950 in the timeline. Right after Paris. So clearly we're meant to understand Louis confided something about the true nature of his relationship with Lestat to Armand. Yet Louis insisted right there in that coffin that Lestat was his maker and nothing more. Again, I guess we'll just have to wait for the end of the season to see how we're meant to piece that whole thing together lol.

I'm thinking about the way the show let us hear Lestat's voice as he spoke to Louis through Armand. They let US hear Lestat insisting Armand tell Louis "I love you". Yet that's not something Louis could possibly remember because he didn't hear it. Which seems confusing but it's actually confirming this theory I've had brewing in my head that the show intentionally shows us things Louis isn't actually saying in the interview. Like making out with Dreamstat in the park. If you rewatch 2x03 there's no way Louis actually told Daniel and Armand about that. Or in this case, it's the show showing us something Louis can't possibly know himself.

And I'm thinking... why? The only real reason to do that is to drive home that what we're watching is in fact the Louis and Lestat love story at its core. I mean... think about it. Every iteration we've seen of Lestat this season has been so ROMANTIC. They were so in LOVE. All the stuff Louis tried his best to omit in season one is leaking in around the cracks like sunlight through the slats of a window shade and it's only a matter of time before that shade is opened...

Also. One more thing. Not to dump allll of this in one post but....... we finally got confirmation in this episode that Armand IS messing with Louis' head and erasing things and overwriting memories and I am foaming at the mouth waiting to see what else is in there Louis doesn't know about...

[virginiaisforvampires]

(Not the same anon) but what is interesting, is that people seem to miss that the rose-tinting was a part of Louis even when he WAS a human. In his confession scene, he tells the priest how he says that he is saving women and giving them opportunities but he KNOWS what he is actually doing to them. Louis has always been one to gloss over his darker side. Whether denying his job as a human, lying to Claudia about how and why she was turned, or his own part in the toxicity with Lestat.

It is an intrinsic, and honestly fascinating part of his character (and book Louis too) and it baffles me that so many fans just kind of miss that.

Indeed and it's such a shame.

I think a lot of it has to do with the current era of morality olympics (like everything else) and the nonsensical need to have a "good guy." And of course, it's also because they fell for the tale.

For example, certain ones were shocked and enraged in 2x02 when Louis did not give a shit about the coven having the murder party in the background of his little flirting session with Armand. They were asking things like "why didn't he stop it?!" and "why wasn't he calling Armand out?!" and "why did Louis not care?!" blah blah blah. It's just LOL ridiculous. Louis is not that guy and never has been. That's what makes him so amazing. Like, that's the entire point!

He's a vampire. You're watching a show about vampires. They're going to kill. They're going to do horrible things. Who gives a shit? THEY'RE VAMPIRES. It's just mind-boggling to see exactly how much people don't get it and how people cannot accept (or enjoy) gothic media for what it is.

I also think there's a lot of self-projection happening with Louis, and certain ones strip him of his agency and jumble the rich layers that make Louis Louis so it's easier for them to have their neat little self-insert. After all, the Loustat tag on AO3 is also being infiltrated with Louis as the submissive and breedable housewife to bad daddy Lestat, and I think we know what that's about. *cough* They want to be fucked by bad daddy Lestat. *cough*

For me, all that ^^ is LOL foolishness. The current approach to engaging with media — having self-induced outrage over things that don't fit their moral purity standards and using trendy buzzwords to sound intelligent and explain why said media is "problematic" in a bid to be awarded most virtuous — will. not. work. with this material, and it's sad and also pathetically hilarious to realize they're trying to apply the clickbait therapy-speak morality shit to a show about vampires.

They seem to have missed the moment in 2x01 when Louis turned his back on the humans in crisis and literally spelled it out — "Human affairs. Not our concern."

This is the Vampire Louis:

And he is bloody brilliant. If only certain ones could actually love him for him and not the cardboard piece of stale bread they've made up in their heads.

As for me, this is my Louis, and I adore him for everything he is and everything he isn't. ♥️🔥

[iwtv-theories]

There's something Karmic about Loumand being miserable together and dealing with "loneliness" (the worst emotion a vampire can experience) even while together. In ep 5, Daniel said Louis was "lonely" in the 70s so spilled his life story to him (but Armand almost told his life story to Daniel in the same episode ). They're both , in Daniel's words, 'lonely' and suffering vampire loneliness after the events of Paris!

Louis called Claudia a "burden" to her face (while picturing his life with Armand) . But it’s only upon her death did he realize how important of a companion she was. In the present time he calls her his "daughter", "everything" and says he "loved her above all else" but Claudia certainly didn't feel that way during her life. She said she always felt like a "third" to the men in Louis' life ( a "roof shingle" on his house) . She started calling herself his "sister" after she saw Louis' sister abandon him- as a way to help him feel better. And right before the trial Louis even asked Madeline if Claudia was a "replacement" for her dead sister-something that hit a nerve in Claudia. Louis to Claudia : “ if we were the only vampires on earth. It’d be enough.” Armand: “if we were the only vampires in paris?” Louis: “I thought we already were.” Claudia : “picked another one OVER ME! “ . It was only when she was gone did he truly realize what he had lost and how much he loved his DAUGHTER and took her for granted!

The same could (possibly?) be argued for Armand and his coven . Armand in the present says he had "complicated feelings" for his coven. Initially, through the coven's perspective , Armand was always taking Louis' side over theirs . Similar to how Louis usually sided with Armand over Claudia. He then choses his coven (of 200+years) over his lover of 2years. But, when he frees Louis this cost him the lives of his coven . It's possible he, similarly, only realized his true attachment to the coven until after they were gone. Regardless of whether or not he wanted them to die, or secretly planned their demises in the 1940s

In Paris, both Louis & Armand choose their romantic attachments to each other over their, longer lasting, non-romantic, vampiric relationships (causing a chain reaction of events that led to both Claudia & the coven's demise) .And by the end of Paris both Louis and Armand are alone and they choose each other partially out of fear of 'vampire loneliness' . Only to ironically still suffer through it for 70+ years together (in a toxic romantic relationship).S2 ending was great cause Louis tells Lestat he wants to be single /alone for a while ( hopefully to work on himself, cause every one of these vamps needs therapy.) And Louis needs a break from these crazy French dudes XD. Curious how Armand will fair being alone since he's never done that before (he's always had a coven or a romantic partner). Wouldn’t be surprised if he went a little mad for a while.

[chuck-the-goon]

I've been playing around with the idea that maybe Armand subconsciously wanted an out from his relationship with Louis. We know that Armand isn't very good at instigating change himself; an example of this was using Lestat to reform his coven because it wouldn't be believable coming from him that the old ways weren't working (the same thing happened with Louis in Paris and Louis was trying to offer Armand a way to change the coven dynamics). And I think he did the same thing by letting Daniel interview Louis; Armand must have known how skilled Daniel had become in his work as a journalist, and would leave no stone unturned, and yet Armand let the interview happen. Yes he didn't like Louis telling his story again, but being a powerful five hundred year old vampire, with a gift for editing memories, he could have easily put a stop to all of it, right from the beginning. But he let someone with an unbiased perspective into their lives, call the shots and tell it how it is, and the big lie Armand has carefully hidden and coveted, came out.

The look Armand gave Daniel before he chased after Louis was one of incredulity, but I saw a hint of resignation there too, anger was the weakest emotion shown. And on top of all of that, Armand could have easily kept track of Daniel's mind and thought process throughout the entire interview, and again, had every chance to stop him, but he didn't.

Daniel in the 70's became a test to the durability of Armand and Louis's relationship, and played the same role this time around. And in the 70's even when Louis tried to convince Armand that Lestat was nothing more to him than his maker, it was clear that Louis was lying to himself and Armand knew this (again probably subconsciously if not outright).

So to sum up everything, Armand let Daniel destroy his companionship because he couldn't do it himself, and he needed it to hit home hard because if he argued that Louis loved Lestat more than him, Louis would lie to himself again (and Armand) and they would be stuck in the same unsatisfying relationship. (This is probably a little far fetched, Armand is good at directing and manipulating people, but to have planned and orchestrated the destruction of his relationship from the beginning is rather unlikely, but it's food for thought that he had so many opportunities to save his seventy seven year relationship, but didn't)

[bombasticsalt]

Loustat and Loumand love vs fascination (take this analysis with no grammar because it's 1am)

One of the scenes that really sticks out to me with Loumand in season two is when Louis tells Armand he loves him and dreamstat starts laughing it's crazy because if this were a Louis and Lestat scene it would have been framed as dramatic and their would have been tears but it's comedic almost when Louis and Armand do it especially when you remember that we never see Louis tell Lestat he loves him yet we as the audience can obviously see he did. Both Armand and Lestat stalked Louis and they both had some sort of soft spot for him before they even actually talked to him and yet, look at how different the way Louis views their first meeting as he says he left the meeting with Lestat thinking only of him but Lestat was real he said things that he meant with Armand it's almost like their meeting is framed as some meetcute he says I will not harm you which yeah sounds sweet until you consider the fact that meetings later he talks about killing Louis. Ever since they met Armand has been presenting himself as a sheep in wolfs clothing and you can say a lot about Lestat but for all his acting he showed Louis who he really was before Louis got in too deep he shows Louis his temper he shows Louis his passions his ramblings his privilege everything I think that says something that Armand would rather pretend to be anything else but what he is a dangerous predator.

And the worst part is it still doesn't work sure love at first sight wasn't something to expect in a gothic romance but listen to how Louis describes meeting Lestat he wanted to be the man and murder the man when Louis was at the party getting ready to kill Lestat he still wanted him all to himself there was this passion for Lestat since their first meeting yeah sure Louis at the moment thinks of this memory fondly but at that time when it happened he was confused like the scene was almost eerily sweet to me

I don't think Louis feels absolutely nothing for Armand I think Louis thinks he loves Armand or at least Armand interests him at first he loves armand in the way you love a spring fling that you don't expect to last through the winter it's fun, interesting and new and that's the main problem with Loumand it lasted way longer than it should have because both Louis and Armand can't be alone a spring fling is nice during the spring when you're bored and depressed but what about when you have a thousand other things you could be doing and you're stuck in a marriage thats like a candle that went out almost five seconds after you lit it for 77 years when the person stops being interesting and fun what's really left of the relationship? Love? Yeah sure maybe but not when you know there's a person out there you loved more than anybody else somebody like Lestat

I feel like this is further proved by how Lestat and Armand react to the boys Louis confides in, for Lestat it was Jonah he got mad about Jonah because he famously heard their hearts dancing and felt the affection Louis had for Jonah especially since Lestat was a lot for Louis. It seems like Lestat thought Louis could fall in love with Jonah and leave him and for Lestat leaving equates with somebody not loving him anymore what threatens Lestat is the idea Louis might not love him and that's ultimately what Lestat wants love he needs attention more than we ever see him need blood he's greedy for it. However, with Daniel he didn't even sleep with Louis so what threatens Armand isn't that Louis might not love him anymore it's that Louis finds Daniel more interesting than him because I think deep down that Armand knows that their love was short lived and the only reason why Louis was still with him was desperation and fascination because Armand knows things even though Louis isn't exactly always curious about vampires he taught Louis how to use fire he does know things that prove useful he clearly doesn't care all that much about the great laws if he let Daniel live this experience because it was never about the great laws it's about Lestat the first interview was a call out to Lestat from Louis and Armand knew that I'm not saying love isn't involved but I'm saying I believe in my opinion it was more about him not wanting Louis to leave because Armand believes he needs a master he needs somebody else to pretend like they have control over him sure yeah him calling Louis Maitre is just for fun he doesn't have to listen to Louis in fact he doesn't listen to Louis sure he keeps Daniel alive but also he turns Daniel eventually Armand is so interesting to me because Armand is a puppet master who wants to feel like a puppet because he never really realized he got cut loose from his strings that's why he potrays himself as helpless even his clothes are meant to make him seem smaller than he actually is he makes people do things for him indirectly TWICE he lets Lestat and Louis destroy his cult coven and then hides behind the words I could not prevent it. Both Lestat and Armand are afraid that Louis will leave them but for different reasons Lestat's afraid Louis will leave him because Louis doesn't love him and Armand literally fucking tortures Daniel aesthetictly just because he's afraid Louis finds him boring he has to be fascinating or else Louis will leave.

Another reason that really shows the differences between Love and fascination is what Louis says to both of them when he wants to hurt them, Louis tells Lestat that's why he's always going to be alone and why they won't work because Louis knows Lestat he knows the thing that will hurt Lestat more than anything else is threatening to take his love and affection away and leave him all alone because Lestat is also a part of the three musketeers of making bad decisions because he can't handle being alone, with Armand though Louis calls him boring because for Louis the worst possible thing to say to Armand isn't I won't love you anymore and I'll leave it's you're boring something that hurts Armand worse if Armand isn't fascinating or fun to Louis then what's the point? What's the point to be in a marriage of spite what's the point of living if Claudia is dead Lestat fucked off to God knows where after the trial and Louis's only companion has lost all the traits that make him want to stay but Louis would rather die than be alone and unloved. But for Loumand the words I love you are like a dagger in both instances when Louis says it (it's fucking 3:46 am if they say it more than twice I'll edit) it's mocked dreamstat laughs Louis laughs while saying it in San Frisco. Love is a weapon when Louis verbally says it after Paul's death. In fact Louis not saying he loves Lestat seems more romantic than him telling Armand he does. Because we as the viewers know he loves Lestat in the way he talks about him, the way he remembers Lestat's ramblings, the way he reacts to Lestat telling him about Magnus, because even though Louis memory has bias ultimately he remembers Lestat as this beautiful monster who he was in love with we're shown that he loves him. But with Armand and Louis we're told their in love but when is it shown with Loustat their was an intimacy in the shadows because they were in a openly homophobic town but with Loumand their relationship seems more like a performance they hold hands in public but in private they're divided when Louis was supposedly falling in love with Armand in Paris he says they aren't companions to Santiago and I think that's why Armand lied about saving Louis because that was the only major thing he could do that would make Louis want to stay, Lestat turned Claudia for Louis in his love Lestat brought the azalea for Louis because he loves him he shows Louis he loves him but what does Armand do? He threatens to kill Louis he won't turn Madeline for Louis sure he tells Louis he loves him but it's not shown not like how Lestat's love is. AND LESTAT DOES IT AGAIN he saves Louis again he proves that he loves Louis again when Armand can't or won't the only thing is the opportunity presented itself where Armand could take the credit for it he could please the coven and keep the guy at the same time because if Armand wouldn't have taken credit for that they wouldn't have stayed together he would have left. Would Louis have gotten back together with Lestat? Probably not but the point is the 77 years wouldn't have happened. Daniel calls it a seismic lie because it is that's what the relationship is based on that's the reason Louis stayed because he felt like he owed it to Armand and that's why he doesn't hesitate to leave Armands when he learns it.

I think that's what makes Loumand so interesting is that Louis doesn't want someone soft he wants the chaos back of Lestat once it's taken away he doesn't want a manipulative pillow who hides all his flaws and does everything he says he wants Lestat who screams back at him with the same passion that burns like a furnace Lestat who can't help but be so passionate about everything he does Lestat who does too much and that passion makes Lestat feel so human even when he's doing the most inhumane things whereas Armand acts as if he's above it all like he's some type of God but also portraying himself as weak and helpless in other situations that makes him so inhumane which could also be why Daniel ends up falling for him.

[avelera]

I’m dying for your thoughts on what is going on in Dubai with the triangulation of Armand and Daniel in Dubai because nothing in 2.05 explain ms what they(beddeath vampires) could want him to tell them as referenced earlier in the season or warrant all the Rashid pageantry. Especially not with how Armand looks at Daniel like he just got home from the wars.

Your takes are exquisite and I’d love to hear them.

Ok, I THINK you're asking what the hell is going on with Daniel and Armand and Louis and the longing looks Armand keeps shooting Daniel and I might be missing some nuance to your question but that is the question I'm gonna answer because I can't stop thinking about it.

Ok. Ok, ok, SO!! The biggest question I think we're facing as of 2.05 is did the Devil's Minion chapter of Queen of the Damned ever happen?

For the uninitiated (LOTS of BOOK SPOILERS but like the books have been out for decades, sorry): Louis/Armand is like... not a thing. At least, it's not one of the big love affairs of the series compared to Louis/Lestat. I mean they've had a situationship but they're definitely not a long devoted love affair going right up to the beginning of the events of Vampire Lestat/Queen of the Damned, which is where the show seems to take place. They traveled together for a bit after the events of Interview with the Vampire but then parted ways because What Happened In Paris changed Louis irrevocably.

The big love of Armand's life in the books is Daniel.

And we learn this in the chapter of Queen of the Damned called the Devil's Minion.

Because Armand stumbles upon "The Interviewer" and falls in love and they have this fucked up whirlwind torrid romance where Daniel teaches Armand about the modern world and basically "how to be fascinating" and Daniel begs over and over to be made into a vampire.

Lots of stuff happens between them but short, TRAGIC version is that Armand does make Daniel into a vampire and it breaks Daniel's mind. He's not a cool powerful vampire once he's turned, he's basically a vegetable, he loses his mind and becomes a hollow husk of himself. (Ironically, insane-new-vampire!Daniel is left in the care of Marius of all people lol)

SO, from the book reader perspective, I shot upright on my couch when I saw old Daniel. Because Old Daniel means we're in... some flavor of happy AU? We're in an AU where Armand did the "responsible" thing and didn't give Daniel the Dark Gift, so Daniel got to grow old and actually be a person instead of being the Devil's Minion where Armand became his whole personality and then he lost his mind.

Thing is, since S1, I've been assuming, like others I think, that we're in an AU where the Devil's Minion didn't happen at all. That Daniel did the interview, he and Louis parted ways, and now he's back to finish it. It seemed neat, clear, if a little confusing for book fans because Daniel/Armand is one of THE great love affairs and it seems like it just got skipped entirely, which kind of makes sense since no other film version has really delved into it, right?

WRONG. OK, so with the longing looks that begin RIGHT when Armand finally reveals himself, the whole mic drop moment of "Armand, the love of my life" while Armand stares at Daniel, almost seeming to plead with his eyes "GET ME AWAY FROM HIM" and looking at Daniel with such longing, going into SEASON 2 where we learn that ok, the 1970s beat was WAY more complicated than it seems, Louis' memory is very faulty, Armand has actively tampered with both of them and we DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH....?

So my current theory is: the Devil's Minion DID happen.

Armand and Daniel had their love affair, but instead of turning Daniel, which by the way he had to be talked into doing because of Daniel's suicide attempt basically, Armand set him free. But CLEARLY he continued to stalk and pine after Daniel, if he was there at Daniel's fucking engagement reading his girlfriend's mind enough to tell Daniel what she was really thinking then. Armand was definitely still OBSESSIVELY IN LOVE. And, IMO, has been the whole time.

Now, what does this mean going forward? What do I think is going on?

Armand wants out of his relationship with Louis but he's chronically, pathologically, incapable of breaking up with anyone. He used Lestat to break up the Children of Darkness, he used Louis to break up the Theatre des Vampires, and now he's using Daniel to end this fucked up marriage he and Louis are in.

Armand is doing this first by consenting to renew the interview, Louis gets a walk down memory lane, remembers how much he loves Lestat. Not to solidify their bond with how good things are now, but to break it up with nostalgia.

Armand is also going to reveal things he's hidden from Louis, I think. Like the fact Armand killed Claudia. I think right now they're both operating under the excuse that Santiago and the coven did it in defiance of Armand but that is simply not true, Armand ordered her death to get Louis all to himself. But (book canon) her death broke Louis so basically Armand destroyed what he wanted in Louis in the gaining of him.

Armand also misses Daniel. He's doing the classic passive lover thing, using the next lover to get rid of the current one. That's why he picked Daniel specifically as the vehicle of his liberation. Boy wants to get white knighted in the most fucked up way possible. Evidence: every single painfully longing, puppy dog look he shoots Daniel's way and how those looks only get more intense the more Louis waxes poetic about how great the Loumand relationship is.

Armand appears as Rashid in order to establish for plausible deniability for Louis that he DIDN'T have a relationship with Daniel OR, if Louis knows about it, that he really did do as promised and wiped Daniel's mind. Look, Daniel doesn't even remember him! When he's standing right there! Pretending to be Rashid! He definitely didn't summon his former lover here to break up Louis and him, obviously this is JUST about Louis' desire to do the interview haha, definitely not trying to bring his old ex to break up his current relationship the guy doesn't even remember who he is.

In conclusion: Armand still wants to fuck that boy old man. And he wants to get rid of Louis by making Louis break up with him because that's how Armand rolls. And that's why this whole ridiculous pantomime is happening, because Armand will never, ever be the active party in the breakup because the boy is way, way too fucked up by his supremely fucked up life up to this point to ever be the initiator. Instead he will always, always manipulate those around him to do what he wants.

[prouvaireafterdark]

Hi! As someone just coming into reading the books but who's been with the show since day 1, I'm curious about why people take Lestat's narrative in TVL with 100% sincerity when the premise of the show seems to be interrogating the dissonance that everybody's versions create. Obviously there's some big things that are definitely going to be true, but I'd personally be disappointed if we got a straight adaptation of unfiltered Lestat perspective on events, haha!

I think you're conflating sincerity with some idea of omniscient, objective accuracy, which, as you note, is a useless thing to search for in a show where memory is continually shown to be an unreliable monster.

Lestat's version of events in TVL is sincere, though. He's speaking from the heart and he's trying to give the story of his life, mostly by sharing his truth about what his life before meeting Louis was like, and in part by filling in the gaps Louis leaves us with about what happened at Rue Royale. His recollection may turn out to be as faulty and biased as Louis' or Armand's has been shown to be in the show, but that doesn't make it any less sincere.

And I'm not implying that Louis is lying or anything. I'm talking about him not mentioning or glossing over the happy memories that meant a lot to Lestat and made up, for him, a big part of what it was to share a home with Louis and Claudia for so long. Giving Lestat the space to talk about his love for Louis and Claudia doesn't erase the abuse he inflicted on them in those moments of instability and rage. I don't get why people are so resistant to seeing that. It's not like it makes everything better. If anything, it makes it worse that he loved them so much.

What's important to note, too, is that at no point does Lestat in his retelling excuse himself for anything he did to Louis and Claudia and I doubt very much we would see him do that in future seasons of the show. Lestat even says it himself that he deserved what Claudia did to him. The way things worked out between the three of them is his greatest, deepest regret and it will haunt him for the rest of his immortal life.

Also, not for nothing, what we've gotten this season and last season are the unfiltered perspectives of Louis, Claudia, and Armand. That's not to say they're lying or intentionally obfuscating (okay, well, Armand totally is), but that is what we got---a narrative that was really challenged only by Daniel and not by anyone who was actually there who remembers it differently. I don't see why we shouldn't also get Lestat's unfiltered version, especially considered he is the main protagonist of the Vampire Chronicles series going forward.

For me and many others, it's not about excusing anything. It's all about contextualizing his decisions. Like, Lestat didn't just wake up one day and decide it would be fun to destroy his family. I want him to tell me in his own words (which, as a reminder, he has yet to do at any point in this series so far) what drove him to do the horrible things he did and how he really feels about it. When we do hopefully get that, I expect the fandom to interrogate his accounts as vigorously as they did Louis' and Armand's and Claudia's.

And to answer your question regarding the books specifically, we have Anne herself to blame for that. She wrote IWTV when she was battling some of the most intense grief and despair a person can feel. She had just lost her child. Writing the book was an outlet for that and you can feel it as you read Louis' perspective. When she decided to continue the series, though, she changed her mind about a lot of things---mainly who Lestat was as a character and how she had come to hate the "weakness" in Louis (which was really because she came to hate the "weakness" she saw in herself as she came out on the other side of her grief and identified with him less and Lestat more). There is a very real dissonance between who Lestat is in IWTV and who he is in TVL and beyond. The way she accounted for that in her own writing was that Louis was misconstruing certain events by leaving things out or straight up making things up like their reunion in NOLA at the end of IWTV, which Lestat claims never happened. The reason people take Lestat's words at face value sometimes isn't usually because they hate Louis or think he lied about Lestat's abuse. It's because Anne, as the writer of the story, wanted the reader to doubt Louis' version in favor of Lestat's because she had changed her mind about the direction of the story and the characters she created.

It's also worth noting that, in the actual text of the show, that version of events taken from the book, the content of the original interview, is described by Louis himself as an admitted performance. I think it's a perfectly legitimate reading to consider IWTV (the book) in the context of Louis trying to get Lestat's attention with something he knew would upset him, like Armand suggests was Louis' fantasy, because he wanted or needed to see him again.

This got long and rambley so I'll just leave you with the wise, wise words of Samothy Reid when asked to give one truth and one lie in the show: Everybody lies. Everybody lies.

I don't think that will change if we finally get Lestat's POV so imo people should just relax and enjoy the ride.

[foreignswaggersession]

iwtv ep. 11 (s2ep4) - misconceptions pt. 1

it started with people claiming that louis “got the ick” around armand in ep 11.  we know that louis didn’t consider armand his companion after 1.5 years of seeing each other.  but while I agree that louis is apprehensive about armand, i don’t agree that it’s because he’s not attracted to armand.  if anything, i think the sex is the least of their problems, and i think louis’s apprehension comes instead from his suspicion that armand’s feelings for him aren’t genuine.

louis obviously likes spending time with armand and having sex with him, as shown by them continuing to see each other and have sex after louis claims they’re not companions. no, we don’t see the sex act, but just like in season 1, you can infer the existence of a sexual relationship without seeing it.  Like, how do you think they ended up in bed in only their underwear? 

and contrary to popular belief, they'd finished having sex before dreamstat appeared.  dreamstat shows up when armand presses the issue of louis not calling their relationship a companionship (note that louis’s more comfortable with “affair” and “romance” – words that imply attraction, just not commitment). 

we see dreamstat’s shadow before he fully materializes:

between that shadow and his first words, we learn that louis has talked to armand about grace, but not that much about florence – enough that armand should know that grace is not louis’s mother. that armand’s first impulse was to just name the only female relative louis’s talked about, then blame louis for him getting the answer wrong instead of just admitting he didn’t know – well, that’s not making louis confident that armand cares about him enough to deepen the relationship.   

when louis tries to reassure armand that he likes their relationship now, armand again gets annoyed that it’s not a “companionship,” so dreamstat finally says, “oh god, how do you manage it?”  it’s armand’s domineering personality that puts louis on guard. 

i’m pretty sure louis is not wishing he was with lestat.  in fact, thinking of lestat makes him angry, reminds him of a relationship dynamic he does not want. 

so instead, he decides to commit to armand more - he agrees to come to more coven events. it doesn't get much clearer than that:

when dreamstat laughs and mocks “i love you,” he’s not talking about louis saying it to armand.  when louis tells armand 'i love you,' dreamstat almost looks offended because we know louis did not say it to lestat in real life. 

but when armand says it back, dreamstat laughs.  louis confronts dreamstat after armand leaves, then dreamstat mockingly repeats armand’s “I love you.” 

in all iterations, dreamstat does not believe in louis and armand’s relationship, but not because louis lacks feelings for armand.  i believe dreamstat is mocking armand’s feelings because louis is still uncertain about armand’s feelings for him.

to me, this scene doesn't prove louis never loved armand, it shows that louis didn't think armand loved him.

[danlous]

what i don’t get is if armand loved louis lol i mean,i guess he did but i really don’t know and assad on sdcc iirc kinda said he didn’t he just wanted what louis had to offer or something like that. also many people say armand is actually all about lestat so idk,if he is,i hope louis really didn’t love him so much bc damn the guy gaslighted him and made him a prisoner while pining for lestat??? crazy shit if so and so unfair to louis. i really don’t know why nobody questions armand side,the guy orchestrated a public humiliation,almost killed him and killed his daughter but somehow is louis’s love into question but not armand’s 🤔

I think him loving Louis and wanting him for what he had to offer aren't mutually exclusive. It comes down to Armand being a selfish creature with this greedy emptiness that can never be filled. Armand is strongly drawn to Louis who's so full of life and emotion because he hopes Louis could complete him and bring him alive, but instead he ends up snuffing out all that life in Louis. Even in healthy passionate romantic relationships people often feel like the other person completes them and their life and gives them something invaluable, and what makes it different from unhealthy/abusive relationships is that you still see your partner as a full person on their own and respect their needs that could be different from yours. Armand constantly prioritizes his own needs in his relationship with Louis, it's all about Louis filling the role and purpose Armand wants. I think Armand does love Louis but that empty despair inside him rules his existence and ultimately everything, even his love for Louis and for some few other people, has to serve that emptiness.

That's actually an interesting point about how Louis' love for Armand is often questioned but Armand's love for Louis rarely is. I think Louis is much more loving and forgiving than people give him credit for. Throughout the show we constantly see him express kindness and forgiveness toward both Armand and other characters, often more than they give to him. I think in 2.05 that's particularly clear where after Louis and Armand's fight and Louis' subsequent suicide attempt, Louis is the one apologizing and trying to connect with Armand and be kind to him, whereas Armand is cold and angry and intentionally hurts Louis physically and emotionally. In the beginning of their relationship Louis forgives Armand for trying to kill him, their relationship is arguably already ruined from that moment because of Armand betraying him like that, but he still forgives him. He gives Armand so many chances, and when Claudia tells about Armand's threats he still wants to give him a benefit of doubt. Even in Dubai he's deeply upset when he realizes Armand has messed up with his memory and you can see from his face that a part of him still wants to believe Armand when he says he didn't do it or did it with Louis' permission. Even though Armand says he couldn't trust Louis' love to last that long, Louis is actually remarkably loyal despite Armand not really deserving it and it's Armand who isn't giving Louis that trust and loyalty back.

Wrt people who say Armand is just all about Lestat they're usually book fans who watch the show through those lenses. In the books Lestat is the center of the universe and Louis mostly just a stick figure. In the show Lestat and Armand (and other characters like Daniel) are likely to perceive their relationships in the context of their relationship with Louis

[nalyra-dreaming]

Hey, Nalyra, hope you're doing well, love your blog <3

Why do you think Louis never tried to leave Paris / escape the coven with Claudia once he realised how dangerous these vampires are (which he did very early, pretty much from the start)?

I figure there were many factors at play, but I'd love to hear your thoughts, the more the better.

For one, I seriously doubt it was his love for Armand that kept him there, lmao.

(Glad you like! 💕)

Didn't he? Want to leave, try to leave I mean?

Because he was telling Claudia that it's not safe there and Claudia dismissing his fears in 2x02. Louis telling her "are you crazy" for wanting to go back (to the theater).

And then Louis wanting to leave and realizing Armand would kill him, and bargaining for Claudia in the sewers (and also asking not to be burned, which Armand ignored!) in 2x03.

Louis... realized their mistake after the mansion. He knew Armand knew it all, he knew the coven knew Lestat. He used Armand and the relationship to him to try to shield them, because he could not leave Claudia alone, because Armand had made it so abundantly clear that he expected Claudia to die, and soon.

Louis stayed for Claudia, and that is all there is to it, imho. He did not go home because of her as early as 2x01. And he visited Roget'sin 2x02 in the hope that the lawyer would have a more current information about Lestat. He literally asks "If he is alive, and if so..." Louis wants to know there, in 2x02, if he can return home. And I firmly believe he would have, if Roget's had had any more recent news. Because he asks himself if "she was worth it" (HIS words, via DreamStat!) as early in 2x01.

It just boils down to that... he thought there was nothing for him anymore in NOLA, and he could not bring himself to leave Claudia to her fate.

Because she was his daughter. And he loved her.

[cbrownjc]

I apologise in advance for the length. I wanted your take on one specific part of 2x5 that bothered me a little and is partially why my little DM shipper hope wavered (that and being burned by ongoing shows in the past). Both you and @nalyra-dreaming have brilliantly pointed out how the episode does a great job at recreating the horror origin where Daniel is kept in the cellar and I wholeheartedly agree. However, what has bothered me about it is that, in the episode, it is not Armand that chooses to let Daniel live. Granted, in the book it's more a stay of execution than anything else, but it's still his choice alone. In 2x5 that choice is now Louis'. And while I know that in the novel Armand considers Daniel a gift from Louis, part of me is bothered by this slight lack of agency. It felt to me like just another thing Armand did to comply to Louis' wants in his desperation to not lose him. And that any Chase that happens is not necessarily out of genuine curiosity but because Louis called Armand boring and Armand just wants to know what set Daniel apart for Louis.

And then my brain goes "fruit of the poisonous tree" and am then afraid that Daniel's meaning wrt Armand (which, to my great frustration, I have already seen other book readers diminish) will literally be: oh he's just the scraps Armand gets because he couldn't have Louis or Lestat (because of the horrors, he did all of it, etc). I don't WANT it to be that and I guess I'm a little terrified about it.

Idk what to make of any of it and I'm nervous because I REALLY want to see this pairing develop as they deserve. So please, tell me what I'm missing in my rambling and borderline incoherent concern. Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my sanity's only hope. ^_~

Hi!

Okay, well, I will try to be your Ben Kenobi here, but remember, even he failed to see what was going on with Annikin before it was too late . . .

Yeah, okay that isn't very confidence-giving, is it? 😬 🙃

Anyway! 🤭

Okay, so on the first point:

I have actually seen one or two people point out the fact that it was Louis who basically intervened and stopped Armand from killing Daniel, and Armand didn't do so himself. And I'm not going to say I can't see yours and some other's point about this. All I can say about that point for now is that we don't know what happens right now between Daniel and Armand after Daniel was let go and dropped off at the drug den. Because there might actually come a point when Armand thinks he very well could kill Daniel and Louis would have no idea, as Louis only requests that Daniel live out "this night." There was no request from Louis to Armand for Daniel to live out his whole life.

So we might actually get a moment, in the future, where we see a time when Armand decides to just kill Daniel -- but, just like with Louis in the tunnel back in the 40s -- stays his own hand via his own decision to do so.

So, I think on this point right now, the only thing any of us can do is take a "wait and see" about it. But there are still doors open to Armand deciding on his own to spare Daniel's life in a significant way I think. With him not even being in love with Daniel yet at the time too IMO.

So, on to the second point:

No, I very much do not think Daniel is going to be seen as "scraps" that Armand gets because he couldn't have Louis or Lestat. And I think what is going to come into play to make that clear is the slight change the show has done wrt Armand's character and the Great Laws. After the Children of Darkness/Satan coven busted up, Armand in the book really didn't hold those rules in any high regard anymore. But the show has very clearly changed that, to where Armand was ready to kill Louis because Louis broke many of the Great Laws.

Assad himself made this clear that Armand really was going to kill Louis and only didn't do it because he chose love instead.

And if you take a look at the full list of the Great Laws that someone was amazingly able to translate, as well as this gifset of a specific scene from 2x03, a vampire being with a human in such a way is a direct violation of those laws that Armand in the show clearly holds to.

So for Armand to break that rule and choose to be with Daniel? Will not be a small thing.

So I think that alone will show that Daniel is not just a scrap. Armand's love for Daniel will be so much that he will, once again, ignore a rule he once held fast to in order to, once again, choose love.

And then, of course, there is the fact that Armand chose to actually break his biggest rule of all for Daniel, which is to never turn someone into another vampire -- which is also one of the laws the cult drilled into him. Yes, Armand's main reason for not doing so in the books was because he didn't want to damn someone into vampirism, as well as not believing that the Maker/Fledgling relationship can ever really work. But the other reason that I feel the show will also touch upon will very much also be because of the Great Law that older vampires should never work the Dark Trick upon someone, less that fledgling be too powerful in the blood.

But Armand's love for Daniel will be so great that he will not bear the thought of Daniel actually dying. And so, when the moment comes, he will not only break that Great Law, but his own personal reason why he doesn't want to turn someone. And he would rather face having to truly put his fear and belief about Markers and Feldglings to the side (and maybe still lose Daniel that way -- which in the books, he actually did for a time!) than lose Daniel forever via death.

Again, that has never seemed to me as Daniel just being a "scrap" to Armand, even when it comes to the books. But I expect the show will put an even greater emphasis on this, both when it comes to Armand's backstory and how now Armand in the show actually holds to those laws in a serious way.

So yeah, just some of my thoughts on those two points. I hope they can calm you somewhat but, if not, just know that, because of the format this story is now being told in, that will very much lend to things -- the characters and their relationships with each other -- to be even more fleshed out, along with character arcs to be planned out overall as well. (Which yes, not every TV show does, but this one is clearly doing so.) We won't get every answer to these things right away, but I think there are many doors open to exploring these things in a satisfying way over the course of the show. 🙂

[virginiaisforvampires]

I am very intrigued by Armand's "Lestat, Lestat, Lestat" rant and what the context might be. It looks like it isn't in Paris. The 70s? Armand finally just telling him Lestat is really alive because Louis is still clearly not over him despite, whatever, Louis thinks Lestat may or may not have done in Paris during the trial? Part of what leads to Louis' attitude change about Lestat (or did that come later?)

I am kind of imagining Armand is thinking, "I have been doing all of this manipulation of the narrative to make it easier for you to live with what happened, and you still talk about him all of the time!"

What do you think?

It does seem like the “Lestat! Lestat! Lestat!” tirade happens in San Francisco. It’s the same room in which we see Louis attacking Daniel, and Armand is wearing that same green shirt we see in 1x06 when they first encountered Daniel.

Soooo, my personal theory is that Armand has the meltdown after stopping Louis from killing Daniel. I think it’s very clever what they’ve done in that all these thoughts Louis continues to have of Lestat are manifesting via Armand being able to read Louis’ mind. Remember when we jokingly said there would be a Loumand love scene while Louis hallucinates Lestat and thereby it becomes the Loumandstat threesome? That’s looking more and more likely. It seems as if they are really delving into Armand’s history with Lestat and the lingering bitterness over the fact Lestat rejected him.

Of course, that’s not what we’re seeing from Armand’s POV:

Lestat is the instigator here. However, I think that’s another aspect yet to be uncovered i.e. the truth of their history too.

The trailer seemingly confirms what I initially speculated in that there would be two versions of the trial:

The outfit Lestat is wearing here while stalking the audience matches this:

It would seem that is Lestat, dramatically strutting through the aisles while Louis, Claudia, and Madeleine are held captive onstage. I would bet my ass Lestat is also giving a grand speech in that moment about what they did to him and demanding justice.

However! I don’t think this is the whole truth, and I think that’s part of what Louis wants to remember in Dubai, which leads me back to Armand’s rant.

There was this tidbit in Assad’s interview:

Armand is hundreds of years older than Louis and Lestat, and while he and Lestat share the gift of flight, we’ll spend the season discovering Armand’s unique abilities — namely, how they’ve been employed since the original interview. Armand “has ancient power,” Zaman teases, but “his power lies in something more than the superpowers of a vampire. There’s a lot of religious symbolism in power.”

“….namely, how they’ve been employed since the original interview.”

This is somewhat of a bombshell. We’ve been under the impression that Armand has been tinkering with Louis’ memories since Paris, but no. No! This would infer Armand didn’t start the mind fuckery until AFTER the first interview!

That leads me to believe Armand did whatever he did to Louis’ memories as a means of both protecting Louis from the truth about Paris and also to get Lestat out of Louis’ head, because it’s apparently too much for Armand to handle as well.

I mean, he is exasperated here. He is tired. He is done with listening to these constant thoughts about Lestat.

This isn’t anything new for them, and I think all of this is very important.

Especially when you consider this quote from Rolin about why Louis is doing this second interview:

"It is absolutely the question. If you wanna know what we're still digging out of it, it is the why of it. There's a real reason why this is a second interview and the first interview is super important. Tune in to Season 2. And I will just say this, these two (Daniel and Louis) have been brought together because something very significant happened, something life-altering happened to them in 1973. And they didn't get it right and they weren't the right people at the time to do it, and now they think they are, and yet like all of us, you still don't know who you are and you still gotta go deeper but that just means there is a lot of meat not only on Louis’ side but on Molloy's side and most importantly Armand's side who has become for us the single most fascinating character of Season 2. Yeah, there's a lot in Dubai that's yet to be revealed."

“….something very significant happened, something life-altering happened to them in 1973.”

That’s the key, and I think the significant thing(s) is Armand tinkering with Louis’ memories to make him forget Lestat and then the subsequent relationship between Armand and Daniel, which begins that same night in San Francisco as well as evidenced by this and Armand wearing the same green shirt:

We’re about to piece it all together. 😅 Little by little. It’s about to click into place.

[loustat-0]

I need to say something here because I don't like this attitude that some people have about dreamlestat .

In the books Lestat didn't have much screen time in the second half of the book . Yes that's true although I talked about it in another post that it was probably because Louis was a hypocrite & wanted to make himself he's much happier & content in Paris without Lestat 😏

Do you realize what having dreamlestat even if it's unlike the book means ? You guys say that they did it because " they wanted to do a fan service for Loustat fans & Lestat fans " . Okay but do you realize what this means for future seasons ????

Louis's character in the books doesn't have a lot of screen time either so if the show wants to give us more Louis it has to go differently from the books Which is also fan service to Louis's fans again . You don't like it when it comes to Lestat how about when it's Louis's turn ???? Have you thought of that at all ??? 😬

There is some stuff that they absolutely have to change compared to the books to make it more dramatic because a live version of something always has differences compared to its book . If the differences fill the voids that's so much better than the books then . Why complain ???

For example one of the voids I always felt reading the first book & watching the movie was that after Louis saw Armand & the coven knew Lestat & specifically after Claudia's death Louis didn't even mind asking Armand about how he knew Lestat at all . It's a big void in the story & Louis was very passive about it after Claudia . So the show probably has filled this void Armand is gonna tell us his pov about his relationship with Lestat now . And he probably has told Louis about him in the past too . There are definitely going to be some changes in the show that some people love & some people don't love . It's okay as long as the changes are explained to the fans logically .

[winepresswrath]

genuinely don't understand how lestat nation is mad about that last episode. we have established.

Louis still thinks of Lestat as the one he trusts, is violently guilty and also horny about him

the final thing that makes him stop circling armand and go for it is confirmation that lestat and armand fucked. like they are clearly attracted to each other on their own merits but they are also appropriating lesbian culture.

lestat has the most magical dick in paris. probably europe. possibly the world. everyone who looks at him falls in love with him a little and no one who fucks him ever gets over it.

armand specifically isn't over it. 200 years later louis by his side he's still like that.

there is a 0% chance there isn't more to the nicki stuff. armand didn't even mention gabrielle and hannah moscovitch has already said gabby is what she's most looking forward to in season three (hard same). also if lestat did tell his creepy boyfriend kidnapping stalker he loved him as a distraction so he could run away the only thing he did wrong was not taking the boyfriend with him. he owes armand less than nothing! i love armand but if lestat wanted to slit his throat and leave him in a swamp he'd be justified in that. he doesn't, which is great for me, but that is the one person besides his dad and i guess the ghost of magnus where he can do whatever he wants forever and it's fine. unholy trinitity of bad men who were bad to him when he was vulnerable and couldn't fight back. if claudia hated him less they could talk about it. however, speaking of bad men who are bad to people. oops.

[pynkhues]

How do you think Lestat conceptualizes what Louis feels for him? Watching s1, especially with the context of s2, it really looks like Lestat genuinely thought Louis never really loved. I find the contrast between 1x1 and the latter half of s1 so interesting. It seem to me that without being able to read Louis' thoughts and with Louis' refusal to verbally affirm his feelings, he genuinely started to believe that Louis was interested in him physically at most, and then not even that (which must've stang especially, seeing how it can be argued that Lestat has a tendency to objectify himself and tie his self-worth to his desirability as a trauma response). We're really just speculating for now, obviously, but I'm wondering about your thoughts on modern day Lestat especially!

That's an interesting question, anon! Mm, I'd say that he must have known Louis had feelings for him at the very least before he turned him - he could still read his mind at that point after all, and they were courting for a year - but I tend to think that would probably have been a combination of deep affection and attraction more than anything else, given - - y'know. Louis didn't even know they were courting, haha. During their relationship - - I don't know, I suspect he probably pendulumed between knowing that Louis loved him, and having genuine doubt too.

Lestat's raised by Gabrielle to understand that love is something that's generally withheld, and depending on your reading of his relationship with Nicki, I do think that perhaps further entrenched parts of that. While Nicki can be generous, loving and affectionate, the way they break up with Nicki swearing he actually hated him all along and wanted them to die together in Paris would fuck anyone up, especially given Louis and Nicki have some similarities (although I don't think they have as many as parts of the fandom do, really, same with Louis and Gabrielle - I think all three of them are pretty unique characters).

Lestat's a chronic romantisier of his own history as a means of emotional survival, but I don't think he forgets much, and I imagine that the memory of his and Nicki's break-up probably coloured a lot of his and Louis' fights, particularly the one where Louis technically broke up with him before returning with Claudia (Louis, the disaster you are, ily), so in those moments - - yeah. I think he probably thought Louis had never actually loved him, but I think in the moments when they were good, when they were happy, he probably was unwavering in his belief that Louis did.

(It's kind of interesting to think about too that Louis did tell Lestat he hated him too, only where Nicki said it while breaking up with Lestat, Louis said it while getting back together with him, and I'm genuinely looking forward to those parallel gifsets in s3, haha).

I do think he took Louis saving his life as an act of love though, and I think in the long aftermath of that, both before the Trial and after it, when Louis chose Armand, it's probably the thing he clung to the most as reflective of that. There's so much that he feels - the cord between them, their hearts beating in time, the memories of the best of it all - but Lestat's also a character with just so much baggage (totally agree about Lestat objectifying himself as both a trauma response and a manifestation of insecurity, and that Louis no longer wanting to have sex [which is absolutely his right, and normal] was something Lestat took as a much deeper rejection than Louis realised), that I think can outweigh that sometimes.

So yeah, I'd say it probably varies based on his mood and maybe even the minute. A part of him knows, a part of him doubts, the only thing he can be sure of is that he himself loves Louis, and Lestat might withhold his history, but he rarely withholds his emotions.