#I HATE YOU JULIE PLEC

[mrs-jamesbbarnes]

“No one will ever sit around at a table and tell stories about a man who can’t love!” -Rebekah to Klaus in TVD 4x04

I’m SOBBING because of the FORESHADOWING

[333itgirl]

right person, WRONG WRITERS.

[thegoldenlily]

Me when I see the Alchemist tattoos

[captainswanandclintasha]

They keep fucking killing the best guardians and the most important ones. I fucking hate this. I hate this show and most importantly I fucking hate Julie Plec. And the bullshit with Andre alive? How the fuck can you watch it and agree to any of it?! At this point it’s not even Vampire Academy anymore.

[mythorhuman]

What about Bonnie's canon ships? Do you think they had potential?

Soooo, I'm rarely on here these days and I'm super inconsistent with checking my inbox. I have no idea when this was sent. Sorry!

Anyway, screw them. I can't put into words how much I hate Bonnie's canon ships. The way people completely disregard Jeremy's disloyalty and infidelity makes me sick. The devil tried to rewrite Jeremy/Anna as some love story just so Bonnie experienced pain. Anna was using Jeremy the same way she was using Ben. Bonnie revived this loser and he cheated on her with the same vampire that kidnapped Bonnie. She revives him again with the expense of her own life just for him to cross relationship boundaries again with Liv Parker. Beremy was a shit relationship because Jeremy has the maturity of a toddler, constantly walking himself into danger cluelessly with Bonnie playing the mother who needs to protect him. Almost every single man who showed interest in Bonnie did so to use her (Ben, Luka, Shane). Bonnie didn't even like Jamie which is why she ditched him immediately.

Her relationship with Enzo brought a regression of Bonnie as a person. She was reckless for the sake of love. He was carelessly poisoning her to death which mirrored their entire dynamic. Bonnie wasn't even Enzo's first choice nor was she his second or even his third. He was supposed to be the "love of her life" and yet everything about them revolved around Damon. The devil wasted Bonnie's love on the most irrelevant characters to give them substance. Even in her relationship, she's written as a tool. Firstly, she's used for keeping Jeremy safe. Secondly, she is used for making Enzo matter and persuading people to care about him as a character (no matter how many storylines they threw him into, no one cared). Her relationships are all about Bonnie serving a purpose for the betterment of the men and Bonnie gets absolutely nothing out of it.

The devil = Julie Plec for clarification

[hyperactivewhore]

I honestly don't understand people who claim to hate Julie Plec but then bring her into everything to prove their arguments correct.

This is the same woman who bullied and treated Kat Graham like hell solely for being black, who is constantly promoting abuse and rape without acknowledging it, a woman who lies through her teeth and continously berates people who aren't white just because she can (who made her main black character stay in Africa completely alone, by the way, while everyone else had love interests or children). This fandom is all about acting like she doesn't exist and hating her (rightfully so) until it comes to their ships.

Why are you acting like the word of a racist should matter? Stop bringing up her corny twitter quotes to defend your abusive ship, because it's embarrassing to see.

[andreal831]

TVDU and forced parenthood

I don't know if it is because Julie Plec didn't understand parenthood or just didn't care, but almost every character has a messed up relationship with the idea of parenthood.

Starting with Rebekah, whose entire identity becomes about being a mother. When she is first introduced, she behaves like an immature teenager with almost no maternal instincts or desires. But it quickly shifts in TO to focus on her desire to have a child. I am completely fine with a woman wanting to have children, but she never gave a real reason to want it. Just this general idea that she had always desired it. I get she likely would have been thinking about it when she was human since, during their human period, women tended to have children in their teen years and it was what all women did. But throughout her 1,000 years, we never see her seek that relationship with anyone. She briefly develops a protective relationship with April and then Davina, but they are easily pushed aside. She even abandons her relationship with Hope multiple times. It never seemed to me that she wanted to be a parent, rather wanted a baby.

This is even more obvious by the fact that Klaus 'adopts' Marcel. Rebekah could have adopted a child, or taken in someone throughout her long life. Now, it could have been that she feared Klaus would be angry and jealous, but this story is never shown. In fact, Klaus seems fine with Rebekah training Marcel, even after he was jealous of Elijah teaching him.

Speaking of Marcel, this whole storyline was problematic. The Mikaelsons take in this boy and then make him feel indebted to them. I've seen people argue that they didn't adopt Marcel, but rather took him in as a ward. Either way you look at it, Marcel was a child and deserved to be treated like one and not some trophy (a lot of white saviorism happening). I do think Elijah wanted to raise Marcel as a son but Klaus wouldn't let him. So instead, Klaus raises him as a friend which created a complicated relationship. I also hate how you can clearly see the difference in how Hope is protected versus how Marcel was raised. Whether it's sexist or racist or just based on him not being their biological family, it's problematic.

And then there is Hope. Hayley will always be my favorite parent in TVDU. Even when she was young and overwhelmed, you could tell her thoughts and actions were all about protecting Hope. Yes, some things she did weren't the smartest plan, but she was also a scared 20-something-year-old trying to survive against enemies that were 1000x her age. She risked her life repeatedly for her daughter and would sacrifice anything for Hope to be safe and happy. She was the one character I felt truly understood what it meant to be a parent.

I always get in trouble when I criticize Klaus as a parent, but he was a narcissistic parent for 90% of the show and that honestly needs its own post.

It's not surprising the Mikaelsons don't know how to be parents. Mikael wanted to train them to be warriors and Esther had a similar feel to Rebekah, that she wanted babies but didn't know how to be a mother. I know Esther and Mikael likely had their own childhood traumas, but that's another conversation.

I liked that Kol and Davina never discussed children. Davina was young and Kol never expressed desires to be a father. Not everyone needs to want to have children. To me, Elijah was the only Mikaelson sibling who expressed a deeper interest in being a parent. Yet, he still didn't understand the full extent. He essentially acted like a parent to his siblings but ended up just having messed up relationships with each of them. He wanted to step in with Marcel and even Hope. I like to think he learned his lesson from Marcel and fought harder for Hope, but again, the whole family just fought harder for Hope.

I also think Freya having a child makes sense, but Vincent being the father had me baffled. He hated Elijah for what he did to Davina until Elijah died, but forgave Freya for her role? Not only forgave her but decided to help continue the Mikaelson line. I just find it hard to believe that he would have agreed to help. But Julie wanted to expand the Mikaelsons and then do nothing with it I guess.

Even in TVD, this idea that everyone wants to be a parent is pushed. Again, yes some people do, but not everyone needs to want children.

I understood Jo, Alaric, and even Stefan's desire to have children. This need to protect and care for others was built into them. We see Alaric (before his character sucked) basically adopt Elena and Jeremy. Jo was always protective of her siblings and loved caring for others so much she became a doctor. Stefan just always had this paternal need to take care of others in my opinion. I even see this with Elena and Bonnie. (Also the fact that Bonnie's future is never mentioned -- we hear about everyone else but what was Bonnie up to in Legacies??)

But Caroline and Damon having children made no sense to me. Caroline had dreams of a career and seemed adventurous, but then was forced into pregnancy at what 23 years old while she was still in school? Yes, we see she gets to become a journalist, but in Legacies we don't hear anything about her life or career. She isn't even there as a mother. Caroline's character basically disappears.

Damon never expressed a desire for children that I can remember. He enjoyed his vampire life and I can't see him giving it up to be a mortal, stay-at-home dad.

There are a lot of problems with the show, Friends, but one thing I've always loved is how they show the different pathways to parenthood. Pheobe is a surrogate for her brother, Monica adopts, and Rachel is a single mother. There isn't one way to be a parent, as long as you always put the children's safety and happiness first.

TVDU could have learned a thing about it. For a show that loved to randomly have a found family trope, it was also ready to throw it out the window the second biological family showed up. That's not how found families work, they are family through and through.

Also, and I cannot say this enough, not everyone needs to want to have children. Even women.

[occulthours]

Julie plec really created a narrative kai was worse then all the dudes because she didn't like he was set up romantically interested in bonnie and wanted a excuse to get rid of Elena plec and co wasn't that involved in the beginning stages of kai character and s6 of tvd that's why it was written so differently

This is so true!

Bonkai is not that different from ships like D.elena and Kl.aroline yet Bonnie stans have to hear “you must HATE Bonnie to ship her with that man”, but y’all don’t hate Elena when you ship her with the man that killed her brother because she didn’t reciprocate his feelings for her? Y’all don’t hate Caroline when you ship her with the man that stabbed her with a lamp because she didn’t want to leave her boyfriend for him?

The only difference between Bonkai and DE/KC is that Bonnie had a negative reaction to Kai’s treatment of her. You’d think that would be a good thing give how dehumanizing TVDs treatment of Bonnie was but it really was just another way to excuse them from giving Bonnie the same things the other girls got romance wise. Caroline and Elena got their toxic sexy dark romances with the villain of the season who spewed declarations of epic love and showered them in gifts but Bonnie doesn’t even get to have a reaction to Kai heavily flirting before the stabbing incident. Caroline and Elena get to live in their delusional fantasies about making their evil boyfriends better people while Bonnie has to stand on business and take Kai down.

Now do I think that Caroline and Elena should’ve been able to whack Klaus and Damon for the torment they endured by those men? Absolutely! All three of those girls were getting used and abused by the men in the show yet Bonnie was the only one that doesn’t get to take part in the more “fun” and “sexy” parts of the whole dark romance thing.

I didn’t know that Plec didn’t create Kai though! Bonkai had much more of a foundation than Bon.enzo

[iamyouknow-yours]

Marcel is a Mikaelson. He does not have to call himself a Mikaelson as he is fully within his rights to denounce the very toxic family but he is one.

I hate the way the show treated him, I hate the way the characters treated him, and I hate that he is involved with Rebekah. I hate the way he and Hope are only kinda sorta siblings.

1. The show:

So we know Julie Plec is very much a white liberal. We know this. We know she has sexism issues, we know she has racism issues (black women will save us all, really Julie????). I don't know which of her multitude of biases made her (and the rest of the writers) think that the way they wrote Marcel and the Mikaelson's relationships with him, was normal (or like normal in the context of the show). But boy howdy.

The plantation house. We're just going to have the Mikaelsons move into the house where Marcel was owned as a slave????? That's what we're gonna do?????? And where his abusive biological father lived and y'know, abused him. Fucking what the fuck?? I feel like this just epitomises the way the show treats Marcel.

2. The characters:

The family never treats him as part of the family unless they want something from him.

They did not raise him as a son and it is weird and terrible and he was a child!!!!! Why did you adopt him if you didn't want a child???

Why is Klaus so scared of having Hope if he's already had a child?

Why does Klaus treat Marcel the exact same way Mikael treated him just because they're not blood related?? (if they actually explored this it could have been interesting but no they just only half treat Marcel as a Mikaelson).

YOU'RE TELLING ME THEY DIDN'T CHECK?? THEY DIDN'T CHECK HE WAS DEAD????? Not once in the 80+ years did Klaus or Elijah go back to New Orleans or even send someone to fucking check that his SON was really dead??? Didn't think to do that???? No???

3. Rebekah:

Oh my god what do I even say about Rebekah?

They could have at least made her be daggered for the time when he was a child and only meet him when he was already an adult and a vampire because that way she's only technically his aunt and not a full fucking adult who saw him grow up!!!!!!!!

Hope:

Idk man, they were siblings. Let them be siblings. The whole thing in Legacies where the Mikaelsons just kind of left Hope alone? Weird. Bonkers. Batshit. I know it's because they couldn't get the actors but maybe think about that before writing your fucking show my guy.

Or in TO where Hope was just left alone and Klaus was not there as a dad for like 5(?) years.

Hayley was the only good parent on The Originals or Legacies canon, fight me.

(side note, you're telling me Caroline would leave Alaric, Alaric, an alcoholic, vampire-hating, weirdo (Caroline and Alaric being romantically involved briefly WAS WEIRD GUYS, WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK HE USED TO BE HER FUCKING TEACHER) in charge of the school for supernatural children??

You're telling me she left him in charge of parenting Lizzie and Josie?? Yeah okay sure.

And look how well that turned out. Locking teenagers in goddamn prison worlds, excellent headmastering there Alaric well done. And just swell parenting of the twins. Favouring Hope over them at all times and letting them bully each other weirdly for years and allowing your mentally ill children to just get more mentally ill from your parenting. Great moves. Very good.

Okay Legacies rant over)

Yeah okay my whole rant is over I think.

TL;DR: Marcel deserved better.

(and so did the kids on Legacies.)

Also PSA, the only reason I have so many feelings about this is because I like the freaking shows okay? I like the characters (except Alaric and Damon and the ones we're supposed to dislike like Mikael and Esther).

[lizzie-queenofmeigas]

My Opinions Of TVDU In 2024

(They really haven't changed all that much but I feel like sharing)

–I loveeee Delena. Yep, I love this ship with all my heart and I'm not afraid to say it.

–I loveee Damon, probably another problematic opinion but I don't care.

–I don't like Caroline. There, I said it. She is just the kind of person that would irritate the shit out of me. Honestly, until season 8 I couldn't handle her scenes.

–Bonenzo is the best. Loveee it. They deserved better and I personally want to stab Julie Plec for how they ended.

–Bonnie deserved better. This is an universal truth.

–I hate Tyler, but I recognise that he was right to hate Klaus and right to be mad at Caroline for sleeping with him. Revenge on Klaus was kind of dumb, but understandable. He was right to want him dead.

–Klaus is my beloved, always going to be and I'm not even sorry.

–Marcel is a Mikaelson!!! Marcel is Klaus's son and his treatment is another reason for me to feel murderous to the writers of the shows.

–I don't like Kol. Yeah, he was right in many things, but he came across as somehow self-righteous and believed himself better than his family. Like bro, you aren't.

–Finn deserved better. I honestly still wonder if Finn knew about Klaus's real father, 'cause if he did Klaus would have a valid reason to hate him. I am saying this because in The Originals season 2 episode 3 we have flashbacks of young Klaus and the necklace Esther gave him. If I remember correctly Finn was always in the background and even retrieved the necklace when Klaus lost it. Given that Finn remembered Freya and what happened to her, it wouldn't be far fetched to think he knew who Klaus's real father was and hid it as well. That being said, he is a victim of his parents as well and deserved better.

–I hate Elijah. He just gives me the wrong vibes.

–Marcel and Rebekah made sense and I ship it. The Mikaelson family is insane with their romantic relationships, so they just sort of clicked.

–Kol should have taken the cure instead of Rebekah. Bekah could just adopt, but what is going to happen with Kol when Davina dies? Nothing good. Plus, he loved being a witch.

–Hayley and Klaus and Klaus and Cami made way more sense than Haylijah and Klaroline. Honestly and throuple with Klaus and the two women who call him out on his shit the most would have been chef kiss. Hope deserved two moms.

–Every Klaus ship made more sense than Caroline. Bonnie? Bennett witch and he likes witches. Aurora? First female vampire (other than Bex) and met him when he wasn't as he is now. Elena? Has Tatia's face, and I think if Klaus just tried to befriend her and explain why he needed to break his curse she would've helped. Camille? Her mind, she clocked him the moment they met, not to mention the O'Connell legacy. Genevieve? Powerful Witch. Hayley? Baby mama, werewolf princess and hybrid, not to mention they are similar. Stefan? The ripper days gave off fruity vibes. Damon? I love their scenes together, they have a similar vibe to them. Rebekah? He is literally killing her boyfriends left and right. Elijah? The codependency is strong here, Elijah's girlfriends have a higher mortality rate than Rebekah's boyfriends. Katherine? Tatia's face, also they are similar. Greta? Their few interactions in season 2 pointed to a thing going on.

–Elena is overhated. Baby has the biggest survivor's guilt in the universe and still she soldiers on. I hate when people said she was less compassionate as a vampire, I honestly thought she was the same. Like, she controls her hunger to become a doctor. She is too good for this world.

–Enzo should have been introduced sooner, Bonnie and him should have gotten together sooner.

–They should have explored Damon's trauma with Augustine more, and the fact that he always disregards his emotions.

–Klaus wolf side should have been explored!!!

–Unpopular opinion, but not everything Katherine did was necessary for her to survive. She could have easily contented herself with one Salvatore brother, but she had to go after both.

–Davina and Klaus needed more scenes together. I mean, that's her adoptive grandpa!

–Lily was awful, Damon was in his rights to not forgive her.

–I liked Valerie, and I liked her with Stefan.

–They should have explained more about Klaus ability to have children, 'cause that was weird. I loved it, but weird.

–Alaric should have died and the twins should have been raised by someone else.

–Matt lived too long.

–Jeremy and Damon were kind of funny.

–Bamon was really great.

–They should have addressed the fact that growing up Damon was the only one there for Stefan. We saw that in the flashbacks but they should have said it more.

–Damon purpose in life was to live for those he loved. My take on him.

–Damon was pretty humanity-full vampire until after Augustine when he turned off his humanity. But, five years of torture in the hands of humans would do that to a guy.

–The witches opinion on vampires were ridiculous. This species has been around for over a millennium, they are pretty assimilated in the magic ecosystem. I think their extinction would actually do more damage than their existence.

–Mikael and Esther deserved more pain.

–I think Dahlia only tried to negotiate with Klaus not only because he was Hope's father but because he was the only one who wasn't Mikael's son.

–Vampire/Supernatural politics are actually so interesting.

–Lexi was too hyped. And I don't get what she had against Damon in the forties.

–Legacies doesn't exist.

That's all. For now.

[pascaloverx]

Hit The Road

Chapter Twelve

previous chapter next chapter

Summary: You are a hunter of supernatural beings who is forced to experience a new reality: being a vampire. The only thing stronger than your thirst for blood is your thirst for revenge.

Author's note: the characters mentioned here were created by Kevin Williamson and Julie Plec, based on the book series of the same name by author L. J. Smith. They don't belong to me. That said, this fanfic will be short. This fanfic may address scenes of violence, inappropriate language and adult content. Minors should not interact with this story. Also some information here is not in the order of the series or the same way it happened in the tv series. I'm changing some things to fit the fanfic story. Hope you like it!

"I have to admit that your self-confidence is enviable. What's it like making everything about you?" You say, distancing yourself from Damon, trying not to reveal your desire for him.

"Can't you cut through all this talk where it seems like you hate me and admit that you want to be close to me?" Damon says with a confident smile on his face. No matter how much time passes, Damon will never let anything shake his ego.

"Damon, understand that despite everything, you're not the center of the universe." You respond, as if you didn't care about Damon. What you hoped would become a reality.

Before Damon could say anything, you both hear a noise, like a loud crash so powerful that it makes the two of you fall to the ground, feeling agonizing pain. You don't know what's happening until you feel someone lifting your body from the ground as if you were a feather. Slowly, you were becoming unconscious, only having the strength to call Damon's name, seeking some answers. You feared to know what was happening and feared that Salvatore might end up dead before you could resolve things. If only there was a way to go back in time and tell the Salvatore brothers how you felt. But now you knew what was happening. The hunters had finally caught up with you all.

"Years of training, thrown away for the first vampire you felt desire for? I expected more from you, Y/N. Much more, actually. Our first rule has always been, and will always be, not to get romantically involved with the prey. Even being a woman, you should know better." Dimitri, your former leader, says while holding a weapon in his hands.

"Dimitri, how good it is to see you again. You're still the same hunter with an inferiority complex as when you recruited me." You respond, opening your eyes slightly as if you had just woken up. You notice that you are inside some kind of abandoned warehouse, extremely dark, and that only Dimitri is there with you. Everything is very suspicious because in the hunter clan, a hunter doesn't stay alone with prey after it's been taken down. And if they got me, they should have gotten Damon too, right?

"If you're wondering where your boyfriend is, know that he's much smarter than you. As I said, women let emotions affect judgment too quickly." Dimitri speaks, almost smiling too much. You can see that your confused reaction to what he's saying makes him even happier about capturing you. He has always been a bit sadistic, but you expected more professionalism from the leader of the clan that was once your family.

"What do you mean by all of this?" You ask while trying to regain your strength, but there's a sharp pain in your head. Personally, you feel frustrated for not being able to save yourself from this situation.

"My dear, he abandoned you. Managed to escape from us and didn't look back. Now I ask you, was it worth abandoning your human life for him?" Dimitri asks in a mocking tone as you feel vulnerable, as if you were completely exposed. Had Damon finally freed himself from your love and chosen to leave you to die?

"It seems like my fate is sealed. Why are you prolonging this? Cowardice or fear of taking the initiative?" You say, feeling any hope of survival slipping away. If you're going to die, it'll be while telling your killer what a weak man he is.

"I'm not going to kill you. Don't worry. You're part of my clan, as sentimental and naive as you may be. A vampire manipulated you, made you into a needy slut, but you're going to leave all that in the past." Dimitri seems convinced that you will truly forget Damon and join him, but how can he be so sure?

"What makes you so sure?" At this point, you have nothing left to lose, so why not play along with his game.

"You don't feel different, my love? As if something has changed in you? Let's say you feel like you have no choice?" Dimitri speaks, extremely smiling, as if he's witnessing the most hilarious moment in history.

"What did you do to me?" You ask, feeling the pain in your head intensify as Dimitri watches you with a smile.

"Spells are quite useful, you know. Witches hate vampires, at least most of them do. You know, it didn't take me long to find one capable of casting a obedience spell." You feel your body tremble when you hear the words coming from Dimitri's mouth. An obedience spell hasn't been successfully cast in over a century. It's a spell that messes with the mind and body of a vampire, forcing them to do something. Until they obey the command given by the one who enchanted them, they experience continuous pain and madness, nearly reaching the point of death.

"What did you command me to do?" You ask, but soon start to get an idea of what he would want from you. Everything seems to spin in your head as if the world is turning upside down.

"Soon you'll know. In fact, in a few seconds. Know that after you manage to complete your mission, I intend to give you the cure for your bloodsucking problem. Until then, be a good girl and bring me what I requested." What he's saying makes no sense at all. A cure? How am I going to find out what he requested in a few seconds? Everything is so confusing. He doesn't say anything more, just releases you from the rope you were hanging from, letting you fall to the ground. You feel weak, too weak to react to anything, even as you see him leave without further explanations.

At that moment, a woman enters the warehouse, looking lost. You notice she's a vampire as you don't hear her heartbeat. She approaches you, asking if you know where you two are. For you, it becomes clear that she's a newly turned vampire when she doesn't seem to recognize that she's a vampire. But nothing matters; as soon as she gets close enough to you, you rip her heart out. One swift move, and she's gone. You don't know why you did it, but you killed her. As her lifeless body falls to the ground, you feel an improvement in the pain in your head. Damn.That's what he commanded you to do. Kill vampires, without thinking about anything else. You begin to cry, looking at your hands stained with blood, as if something had shattered within you. And indeed, something had broken. Your humanity seemed nonexistent. You no longer have control over yourself. It might have been better if Dimitri had killed you, but instead, he turned you into a killer.

"Y/N!" You hear the voices of Stefan and Damon calling you from outside the warehouse. You can't see them. You have to escape. But it hurts so much. You try to distance yourself from the location, but each step is a struggle. The pain in your head is gradually diminishing, but the emotional pain is increasing. The voices of the Salvatores echo, concerned, calling for you. Tears fill your eyes as you battle against the compulsion that forces you away from those you love.

"Y/N, where are you?" Damon's voice sounds desperate. Desperation fills you as you want so badly to run to the Salvatore brothers, but you can't. Feeling almost immeasurable pain, you manage to lock the entrance of the warehouse. Unfortunately, in the first moments, they don't understand.

"Listen carefully, with no sentimentality or any foolish behavior. I'm under the influence of an obedience spell. The kind that makes me want to die for not obeying the command of the one who cast the spell on me. My orders are to kill vampires. If you don't want to try your luck, I suggest you leave." You finish speaking, not hearing anything—no protests or noise. Despite the disappointment, you feel relieved knowing that you won't kill either of them. The pain in your head is so strong that you lose concentration for a few minutes, not hearing footsteps behind you. Suddenly, you feel someone grip your neck forcefully, and you black out, collapsing unconscious on the ground.

[cancerian-woman]

You called Caroline a white Bonnie, how so? Bonnie in my opinion had more of a consistent personality in the show. She was consistently written as a moral superhero for everyone. Caroline was whatever Plec needed her to be in the episode imo. A victim in one, a villain in another, one day she’s sleeping around with every man in the show (that’s an exaggeration, but yeah), the next day she’s slutshaming another girl for doing the exact same thing (Elena also slut shamed her for sleeping with/ being raped by Damon, even though Elena also sleeps around, so I guess it’s a running theme). One day she hates Klaus with all her heart, the next day she sleeps with him even though he killed her boyfriend’s mother. One day she’s a girls girl, the next day she’s a misogynistic mean girl. It really depended on what Plec thought was right for the plot of the episode. And am I the only one who thought that the Alaric/Caroline thing was off putting? Wasn’t he her teacher? Didn’t he date Elena’s surrogate mother AND her aunt? And so much more. And he admitted to having feelings for her, even though she was an adult at the time, it was… strange. And I didn’t like the plot line of her being pregnant with the twins without her consent. The forced pregnancy was just not my thing. Did she even give any sort of hint that she wanted to be a parent throughout the show? I don’t remember.

Okay, I’m free from work so let me break this down lol. This is long.

Not that I disagree with your thoughts on Caroline. I just wasn’t talking about her then. Tyler ends up dating Liv Parker in season 6, that’s his final relationship after Caroline. I agree, Caroline is just a self-insert for Julie turning her into whatever the show needs for that moment.

Penelope Mitchell/Liv was being set up to be Bonnie/Kat’s replacement since Julie admitted to wanting Bonnie permanent death to be in season 5. That tweet is still posted btw.

If Bonnie is no longer the resident witch and there are no more Bennett’s then of course the remaining witches are going to get the spotlight.

Tbh, the way tvdu fans ignore/ed Bonnie/Kat they wouldn’t have cared if she was fired to make room for another white and woman they found more desirable.

Candice has admitted that she found out she was pregnant called Julie and Julie from there rewrote season 7 to accommodate Candice’s pregnancy. Which tells you exactly how she feels on Kat getting full attention because Candice was not the last woman standing lol. Candice didn’t have to stop working I cannot stress this enough but she certainly was not the first woman to be pregnant onscreen and have the baby bump hidden.

Caroline never mentioned anything about children until that forced pregnancy. Alaric was married to Elena’s birth mother, then dated Jenna. Either way Calaric was a waste of time. Lmao.

White!Bonnie to clear up further confusions for you lol: are white witches who are abused for their magic or serve others but have agency. Ex: Freya her siblings, Davina with the NOLA witches or vampires, Hope’s a martyr for the Salvatore school, Liv is Bonnie and Rebekah mixed but even she didn’t want anything to do with magic because of what happened to her family lol.

Bonnie’s beautiful, compassionate, powerful, intelligent but she’s black. Not okay to be anything but white in tvdu. Instead of pushing Bonnie, the writers took these qualities and gave them to white and desirable women.

Hope that clears my comment up completely.

[mejcinta]

Why don't you like Sara Hess? I mean, she showed us the real Daemon, not Mary Sue George from George's dreams and I'd love to thank her for her service, although there are still some people who have rotten brains due to their inability to see Matt and Daemon aren't the same person. They are not blend into one lol but people in general are getting more stupid. Proof? Someone saying to Olivia that just because she plays Alicent she hates her. I recommend therapy although I doubt that level of stupidity is not curable.

Am I obligated to like Sara Hess and her penchant for misery porn on female characters she doesn't find 'progressive enough' just because she showed Daemon's dark side and pretty much extinguished Aegon's potential (I know that makes certain fans happy)?

When I read Daemon's bits of Fire and Blood I never once went "Wow, that's one infallible character" because he clearly is not. He did pretty shady things, especially Blood and Cheese.

My problem with Sara Hess is that she (along with Miguel Sapochnik) think that:

1. A Queen can be sexually assaulted by people less powerful than her for years without anyone getting wind of it.

2. F&B is 'sexist' for pointing out that Helaena and Rhaenyra were beautiful, round women after childbirth

3. (My personal favourite) Aegon is still a 'grey character' after painting him out to be a rapist 6 years later, mind you without giving sufficient background within that timeline leading to that act of violence🙃

I am not obligated to like Sara's takes simply because she's a woman like me. For crying out loud, episode 9, one that she led, is the lowest rated and raised so much outrage.

It is alright to admit that she has her biases and that she can be blinded by her own ideologies (Rhaenys talking down to Alicent). It is alright to admit that she didn't understand the assignment (together with the rest of the writing team, but SHE was the face of that folly--and proudly so!! in those bts After Episode videos 😳).

The logic of Don't Hate (insert female writer/producer) doesn't sail with me.

Reminds me of The Vampire Diaries days with Julie Plec as executive producer and writer. She gave us really compelling female characters like Caroline and Katherine. But she had a clear bias and DESPISED the character Bonnie Bennet. Everyone saw it. There were tensions on set that are pretty well known about now. Apparently the producer also hated the actress for recommending better story ideas for Bonnie more in line with the BOOKS.

Rings a bell in many ways. And I cannot support Julie Plec's shortsightedness and clear discrimination simply because she's a woman, or that she wrote other characters well.

It is not wrong to point out a possible flaw in any person.

[imliterallyjustablackgirl]

Please, let not this convo take us away from real things - My favorites ships

I must admit I am so confused about this discourse overall, but I think I understood both sides, I think. The Bear is quite recent, TVD not so much. The Bear just started, there's YET to see what's in stock and I am SO excited to share my thoughts here and see y'all thoughts as well. TVD has been a thing - it has books- it is a fantasy world - it is built with the idea that anything can happen and creature of the night. The Bear is about finedining world - Carmy, Syd, his family, the Bear family,etc. Bonnie was the only black female AT ALL(everyone else were getting offed). Syd is the only black female, we actively see. So, the comment about hating Marcus doesn't work, because there are other black people in the show. Not in TVD. No negros were in Paris, they were all dead and buried. I am genuinely so confused. Both identities will impact their interaction with the world - the real and their characters. You are telling me Sydney, our Sydney wasn't impact by all the yelling the restau- industry. Being yelled by men, Being yelled by white men. Who aren't Carmy. Who didn't apologize. The expectation of more from black characters and for them to just be thankful to be there is another thing I won't touch- but like I want more for Syd than to be just another Bonnie Bennett or another Abbie Mills because Carmy has already failed our girl. Imagine you get to work, asked to take on a new role, trusted to do so just to be yelled at by Richie, who is having a mid fucking 40's crisis, rambling about system. Be for real. I'll only speak on this once, because quite frankly I'm still confused on were to start or stop. I am a black viewer. A black female viewer. When I saw Carmy yell at Syd about her mistake, it brought me back to TVD's where Bonnie wasn't allowed to make mistakes. Because being yelled at as a black person and mostly as a black woman with the ANGRY black woman stereotype in the air- is different if let's say if Elena was yelled at or humor me- Claire would have been yelled at. I knew when Carmy asked her ''Chef we good'' that sis was in fact NOT GOOD. In the real world, it happens. You do not want to be the angry black woman who yells back. Like, an example that comes to mind it's like comments critizing Syd about her mistake with the ticket machine ( which post that follows will be about this). Sydcarmy is so good because it is so close to friends to lovers. Bamon is literally so hot because it's enemy to lovers. More like enemies -friends then lovers. We have convo about the ship being canon so much, I just cannot grasp that there would be a convo about another ship were shippers were gaslit, called slurs and what not. That wouldn't some Sydcarmies go- damn, it has happened already, let's not like reproduce that. Let's not foster that here because it has already started like most Bear fans on Reddits are racists. Idk if some of you get my point. Sydney has the opportunity to have depth because it is given to her. To the point where Ayo even has the opportunity to direct some episodes. (mad excitinnnnng!) Bonnie is a witch, from a powerful coven. She was used a plot device to kill and torture. A literal pocket witch. The equivalent of a human lighter. When the actress who worked and is a singer-dancer and literal artist asked to sing in the show she was refused. Both white actors could, only one of them was a singer - he hadn't even in the show for 5 years and the actress wasn't a singer (correct me if wrong).

Fantasy can be changed, like racism..didn't have to exist in the show or to be a thing, right. Julie Plec made it a thing, she was avoidant of literally talking about slaves, which Bonnie's witch ancestors were.It would have been a wonderful opportunity to explore the depth of things such as voodo or hoodo in that case-. Like Bonnie Bennett, was robbed of true potential.

I don't want that to happen, knowing that racism IS a real thing, the Bear IS in a form of real world ( despite me loving all the time-space talk of @unladyboss) and AYO is a real person so is KAT. I like to share my thoughts here and I like to hear from you guys as well, I refuse to think that some of you will keep it surface level because it is the same thing we reproach other platforms and use to explain why we ran here.

[kmze]

I have been reading & watching some old cast interviews and comic con panels lately.I never really paid attention to offscreen stuff before but is it me or there was always some underlying tension among them?Either they were trolling or they could barely stand each other to be in the same room or maybe I am reading too much into it.I think the one thing that remained constant was PW relentlessly trolling the show and its below-average writing and outlandish plots.So anyway in the process I got to the part where Malarkey slipped that Enzo will be Bonnie's love interest and Dries spewing BS about Bonlaric in the interviews.This is something Plec said she came up with after their scene in 6×21(hard to believe but whatever).Caroline was the only one the writers didn't say absolutely anything about until they probably decided to incorporate candice's pregnancy.One thing that I remember about both Bonnie and Caroline's so-called future relationships is that neither were compelling enough and little to no effort were made for them before the time jump while both SC & DB were left on cliffhanger.In fact both Carenzo and Bonenzo had the same story.Enzo betrayed both.;vervained Caroline & tied her up,hit Bonnie in the head and injected her with something that disabled her magic.And then in the end got his ass handed over to him by both the girls.😎

Anyway,in one interview,julie had even said that Bonnie and Caroline were going to take centre stage but Candice called and said she was pregnant.I'm not exactly sure how Candice's pregnancy could affect Bonnie's narrative unless it was just one of her lame ass excuses which it absolutely was.So what do you think Baroline's story was originally going to be before the time jump?Baroline being lesbians,dating each other and having the time of their lives in some European city?To be honest I would rather watch THAT.I hope someone does a Tell-All Book someday unless they all signed a NDA because too much shit happened that didn't make any lick of sense.

Hey so I actually think the cast are way more fond of each other than they let on, mostly because I don't see how a group of people would do so many of these cons together if they couldn't stand each other. I think Pauls just did a lot of trolling because he knew people thought it was funny. I do however think Kat hates Caroline Dries as she should and I don't think she likes Julie much either which is also completely warranted. The thing about Dries and Kat in what would be Bonnie's LI in S7 is that Dries said she didn't tell Kat but told Malarkey because Kat wasn't ready to hear it yet and like WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN??? Why does she think she had the right to treat her like a child? I'm so glad that bitch basically got fired in S7 and hasn't had success since, it's what she deserves. Bonnie and Enzo had some build-up in S5 too but it was similar to the stuff they had in 6x21 so it just felt like something the writers were putting a pin in for the future if they needed it. I just think the writers had no idea what to do with Enzo in S6 once they decided they didn't need him as the Klaus-lite foil to Stefan and rather wanted to isolate Stefan and Caroline while they built their love story.

I can probably answer the S7 questions better after I rewatch that season (I'm mid-way through S6 now) but I like 7x04 gives a good idea of what the season would have looked like with Candice's pregnancy. I think the SV baby would have been introduced and that would have been the obstacle for Steroline, maybe Stefan would have been stabbed protecting his kid? I also think Valerie might not have had such a big role that season if Candice wasn't pregnant because her screen time really dwindled after she was about 7 months pregnant. Bonnie on the other hand might have been more involved in the heretics plot and maybe that could have been used to develop Bonenzo but I'm sure Dries decided to make Enzo obsessed with Lily because she hates Kat. Like she would rather take a character we just fucking met and give her more stuff than Bonnie because to be blunt Valerie is white and Dries is racist.

[andreal831]

This fandom needs to back off of Matt Donovan and Zach Roerig

Starting with the ridiculous: Zach Roerig and Julie Plec never dated. It's ridiculous that I have to say this. There is a blurry picture of him leaning in to Julie Plec at some point. I even tried to do the work for you all and could not find one shred of evidence of an actual kiss. Y'all are just wild for this rumor. If anything, my search revealed that Ian and Zach were in a relationship. I mean look at that affection.

Also, with just a tiny bit of research, we can find out that Zach was in a relationship when he started the show and, due to issues at home, he ends up fighting for full custody of his two year old daughter while on the show. The only romantic connection there is any reports on is with Candice King and that was relatively short lived. Otherwise Zach was just a single father, trying to raise and support his daughter.

Now people will try to say Zach is racist as well. I've heard he was racist because of dating Plec. See earlier paragraph. Or that he made racist comments to Kat. Again, there is zero evidence of this. People keep pointing to this interview saying that he either does the Nazi salute or a black power fist and it is such a reach it's ridiculous. He is looking at Kat because the question asked related to Bonnie and Matt and he reaches forward as a hand gesture and then raises his fist in a fairly generic way.

I can't tell if people get Matt Davis and Zach confused because he plays Matt or if people just love to hate on Zach because he plays Matt. Either way, it is disgusting to spread rumors about someone being racist when there is no evidence as far as I can tell. It's also terrible to distract from the actual racism that Kat had to deal with on the show.

From every interview I've seen he seems like such a sweet person. He even said working on the show was a "healing process" and yet the fandom treats him like this. Zach goes to the panels and none of his coworkers seem uncomfortable and avoid him. Not that them liking someone means that person is good, most of them still interact with Matt Davis and yet unfollowed Michael Malarkey.

Now onto Matt Donovan.

First of all, the fact that y'all pretend this man isn't attractive tells me all I need to know. Objectively, Zach Roerig is attractive. You can not like his character but you all just sound goofy.

The biggest complaint with Matt is that he is "useless," but this to me just shows you are watching the show for either the romance or attractive people and not for storytelling.

The role of the "human" in fantasy is so important. We, as an audience, are humans and we need to have a threshold character. A character that reminds of that even though we are rooting for the supernatural creatures, they are still not the good guys. It's why supernatural stories often revolve around humans. It gives the show the humanity that it would be in danger of losing if it just focused on the predatory species. Matt reminds us of the humanity that is at stake in the show.

Matt is particularly important in this show because he not only the sole human in a pack of supernatural creatures, but he is the only one without financial privilege in TVD. Matt not only comes from a family that is struggling financially, but his parents are gone and his sister is struggling with addiction. Matt is working it appears full time while in high school full time. All of his friends are going to parties and given cars and clothes, planning for college; while Matt is having to figure out how to afford his mom's mortgage/rent. Season 1 opens up focusing on how much Elena is struggling with the death of her parents but dismissed Matt's struggles as some lovesick teenager. When in reality Elena at least had a support system. Sure Jeremy was spiraling like Vicki, but Elena and Jeremy had Jenna. Matt was struggling with the purposeful abandonment of his parents and his sister's drug addiction with zero support system. He even loses his childhood friends when Elena and he break up. He only really has Tyler, who, let's be honest is not the best friend in Season 1.

He is also the first person in the show to lose someone due to the supernatural. His sister ends up attacked and in the hospital and he then has to figure out how to pay for that while taking care of Vicki who is clearly struggling even more than normal. When Vicki does end up dead, he knows there is more too it and the entire town, including his friends, gaslight him. Matt has every right to hate vampires. They murdered his sister in cold blood.

Matt is so devastated by Vicki's death that is haunts him throughout the show. He even risks his life just to talk to her ghost for a few moments.

People say Matt hates the supernatural, and he did, but he had reasons. And despite that, he was always there for his friends. Even when he was terrified, and in much more of a risk than his vampire friends, he was always there for them.

Yes, Matt is the one driving the truck when Elena dies and Stefan saves Matt over Elena, but none of that is Matt's fault. He was attempting to save his friend's life with Jeremey's help. How is that any different than Elena having Stefan compel Jeremy to leave town? Let's also not forget who helps Elena feed in her early days. But the fandom never wants to give him credit for that.

Matt is constantly used, berated, manipulated, and compelled by the supernatural around him. Mystic Falls needed someone like Matt to stand up for them since they were unaware of the supernatural world. Even the "good vampires" killed humans. Matt was trying to protect his town.

The last complaint ties it all in, that Matt only survived so long on the show because he was dating Julie Plec. Again, that's a lie. He never dated Julie, and it especially had nothing to do with the show writing. I would also like to point out that the character Matt is based on, Matt Honeycutt, in the book never dies. So why are we surprised he doesn't die in the show? Matt had a lot of close calls and even had a Gilbert ring for protection. No one ever asks why Steven McQeen (Jeremy) doesn't die or assumes it's because he was "sleeping his way to the top." These assumptions are immature and baseless.

All Matt wants to do is live a normal life, something he had to fight much harder than the rest of them for. He is the most consistent friend out of all of them. People love to say "how did Matt get so many girls?" Because he's nice. Because he respected them and fought for them, even if they didn't deserve it. They would all have been better off ending up with Matt.

Honestly, Matt and Cami's purpose are similar to me and both of the actors deserve such a huge apology from this fandom. Some of y'all need to learn to separate a show from reality.