#I AM accused of being a hater. I AM accused of being the bad guy

[persephoneflouwers]

Anyway, free Palestine from z*onists, liberals and slothful hearts.

[helluva-dump]

Yeah I think I am officially done with the Helluva boss critical community… for good.

Before you guys flip your shit and accuse me of being a Stan, let me explain.

So I deleted my tumblr app and decided just to refreshen my mind and focus on other things. (Like my art, my own possible indie project, ect ) and being away for a while… it kind of made me realize how much of the critical community was becoming too much for my mental health.

Originally, I joined because season 2 disappointed with season 2, didn’t like how Vivziepop retconned things like the pilot, the possible workplace allegations, and of course… the fandom being super toxic as hell work promoting toxic positivity.

But holy shit…. Somehow the critical community is even worse than the fandom.

Like I swear nobody talks about what’s wrong with this community. I’ve seen blogs have such an unhealthy hatred to Viv where they post nonstop about her… it’s insane. Like when making account names “wah I hate Vivziepop”

Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t think all critical blogs act like this. I do in fact still follows few, only thing is the ones I follow don’t constantly whine and bitch all the time and actually do critique. And these reblogs I follow just do AUs, rewrites, and redesigns which to me I will always see as harmless fun since that’s what I wanna do.

As for the other half of criticals…. Hell, these people legit get mad and share screenshots making fun of fans with different opinions. Like, bruh, didn’t you guys get angry at stans for doing that to y’all? You guys are literally doing the exact same thing. And no I’m not talking about sharing screenshots of toxic fans that attack former employees and make excuses for a questionable workplace…. But like they’ll just mock fans that didn’t do anything bad.

I’m all for critiquing a fandom and there are Stans that have such an unhealthy parasocial relationships with Viv… but somehow I see people acting the same with their unhealthy hate obsession. Literally going through her IG and bitching and moaning…

Seeing people making assumptions about her and Gooseworks with the glitch x as well as Tracy just shows me how unhealthy this hate is becoming.

Yes, Viv and Tracy had a bit of a heated thing on Twitter. However, I don’t think it’s fair to assume she’s this evil evil hellspawn that’s plotting to destory glitch x. “She’s kissing ass to goodeworks with her fake smile” dude she’s probably a fan of their works, you really don’t know that.

Also, while I’m aware of the allegations concerning Salem (who I hope really recovers and they did really make this episode the best IMO)… it’s probably not fair to assume all employees get treated the same way… the only people that seem to know what went down are Erin, Ken, Salem, and Ashley Nicolas. Do I think the workplace abuse is possible? Yes, it’s why I haven’t bought any merch.

BUT the reason why I don’t like to discuss things like this is because half of the other stuff seems like flimsy evidence besides Salem’s vents. And I think it’s a bit risky to spread such misinformation and make assumptions. (One blog I’ve seen had so many anons sharing rumors and just go along with them which to me is dangerous…)

Like when the new episode aired, unlike everyone else, I actually loved it. This recent episode was so great it’s what I wanna see more of for Helluva boss. But eh… I noticed some haters bitch for the sake of it. Now, some of the critiques aren’t too bad, I did notice some flaws and I understand the concerns for salem. But like other half it’s just bitching for the sake of it…

Also I heard rumors how the deranged stalker fan of Fizz is a parody of critical blogs… tbh I highly doubt that because that trope always existed in cartoons (like Aggrestuko had one too) but considering a good chunk of “criticals” have a hate boner for viv, can you blame some fans for thinking that?

I really don’t like how the critical community became the anti community. Because not every critical person is an anti, I don’t even wanna fuck with that shit and I don’t ever wanna resort to that.

Hell, they drove one critical blog I loved away… over a bad miscommunication.🙃 and that blog was right, you don’t wanna make friends with this community with how some toxic people are.

Also I’ve been drawing a lot of Hazbin hotel stuff for my Heaven AU and it reminded me why I enjoyed Vivziepop’s ideas and stories so much. It somehow was helping me take edge away from my mental health.

I think it’s possible to still be a fan without labeling yourself as a stan or anti. That’s why I made this blog for. I was so worn out by the toxic positivity of the fandom, so this is my comfort space. But now I need to cut the critical community away since it’s now full of toxic negativity.

And as I said, I do plan to make an indie cartoon series and I feel like being part of this critical community is NOT gonna make me professional on my end. That being said, I don’t like Viv as she said things that rubbed me the wrong way BUT I’m not gonna let that kill my joy for Hazbin hotel.(and Helluva boss to an extent) I do think she has good ideas and they CAN work but she does need more writers than animators to help her execute them.

That’s why I’m only a bit more excited for Hazbin hotel lately

Now I’m not angry at anyone who followed me. I just wanna make some boundaries, and that being said, I’m still gonna critique both shows. However, I’m just gonna tag these posts as HH/HB critiques than HH/HB critical for now on. I feel like that’s more professional and more genuine if you wanna share opinions on stuff.

Just wanna get this off my chest, it’s what I wanted to express for a while.

And if fans come across this blog, don’t be afraid to interact I won’t bite. Everyone has their different opinions. I only have an issue with Stans that promote toxic positivity and dismiss employees that were treated badly is all.

[strawberryraviegutz]

I really REALLY hate those kinds of stupid “hot take” posts. I think they’re just garbage to purposely farm more discourse to cause infighting, but I’ve been holding this in for so long and I need to get it out of my system so here it goes.

Alastor fans are allowed to dislike Valentino. Valentino was made to be a dislikable Villain while Alastor BY VIV’S OWN WORDS is a chaotic neutral antihero based off of Dexter with a moral code. Of course people are gonna like Alastor more than Valentino. The antihero/vigilante is a very popular beloved trope. I mean just look at Magneto and Venom.

You guys claim to want more nuanced characters but when we try and tell you that Alastor is more nuanced BASED OFF OF EVIDENCE FROM THE CREATOR and little possible context clues in the show we get accused of “babying/woobifying him”(as if Val fans haven’t done that to Val). This isn’t a hit piece against all Val fans/simps btw. I may hate that moth, but you guys should be allowed like him without receiving hate and or death threats.

It’s not “hypocrisy” to dislike Valentino or the Vees and like Alastor for the reasons I said above and the four of them aren’t comparable. Yeah they share some traits but overall the only thing Alastor and the Vees have in common are the mistreatment of the souls they own. Like I said, Val fans shouldn’t be attacked for liking him but the thing is…if you’re gonna preach those words then do the same for Alastor fans/simps because we get attacked too.

(Again it’s not all Val stans but it sure it a lot of them. I’ve all so seen Val haters do it too.) Yall claim not to harass people over fictional characters yet will go under Alastor posts and or discussion threads and be like “Uhm actually him and Valentino are the same🤓☝️”.

“He’s worse than Val” “Why can’t we just have a good villain” “Just accept that Alastor is a villain stop babying him” when we’re just minding our own business. Not to mention people going under fanart of Angel! Alastor and being like “erm actually he’d never go to heaven🤪”.

Along with yall bullying the hell out of Alastor selfshippers/simps and using tumblr sexyman as an insult(which reaks of internalized misogyny btw because majority of Alastor simps are women + women are always the first to be made fun of when it comes to characters that Classify as tumblr sexymen being found attractive by them or any character you personally wouldn’t find attractive.)

And yall going around and keep calling Alastor ugly under posts about people gushing about him and i don’t mean lighthearted jokes either because i make fun of the back of his head sometimes too. And full blown harassment. When an Alastor fan provided evidence of Alastor being a more nuanced character which were clips from Viv’s streams, people in the comments and qrts were being extremely rude and dismissive. It got so bad that op deleted the og tweet.

Don’t go around and claim to be against cringe culture but then make fun of people for finding Alastor attractive. And for goodness sake STOP FUCKING CALLING HIM A SLAVE OWNER. And yes he owns souls but that doesn’t matter.

Alastor is canonically half black and its overall disgusting to slap the label “slave owner” onto him knowing damn well that he grew up in the Jim Crow era of America in the Deep South of Louisiana. His existence as a mixed black person back then was basically considered an abomination. With how terrible it was for black people back then, Alastor probably bore witness to a lot of messed up shit growing up and if that’s the case then it’s no wonder he’s so messed up in the head.

This type of behavior has been going on since the days where we only had the pilot and it’s only gotten worse since the show came out. As soon as I saw that scene with husk and Alastor in hell’s greatest dad I automatically knew what was coming. I’m not saying that Alastor Is a good person nor am I saying that what he did to husk was ok. But to go after/make fun of Alastor fans,purposely denying evidence of his character while in the same breath preach against bullying people over liking certain characters makes YOU the hypocrites. So much for anti-harassment. I’m tired. Bye.

[time-to-write-and-suffer]

The most frustrating thing to see in the HogLeg tags is people in the notes of TERFs and edgelords and Devil's Advocates and Consciencious Objectors trying to beat some sense into them.

Like, what happened with "don't feed the trolls", guys? Here's a helpful list of what to do when seeing specific types of braindead/inflammatory posts.

"Um if HogLeg is straight up killing people then gender clinics are mutilating children!" That's a TERF. Block, report if applicable, move on. This one wants to hurt you and takes pleasure in doing so. Hates you probably. Do not engagee.

"LMAO at those snowflakes being upset at a game! I'm gonna play it and nobody can stop me!" Edgelord. Block, report if applicable, move on. Do not engage, you are the snowflake they're trying to trigger. Do not give them the satisfaction.

"Um um I'm trans and POC and Jewish and this is getting out of hand, guys! You're radicalizing the normies by being mean to them for playing the game!" or "I'm trans and POC and Jewish and you're all insane for acting like wild dogs and attacking people for playing a stupid game! I'm not like this! Be normal!" At best, a sad creature still hoping that if they act "normal" enough, the power structures that be will let them live. At worst, a rando pretending to be these things in order to further their own argument. Yes, that still happens. Yes, even on Tumblr. Either way, move on. Block if you want. Do not engage with the bad faith arguments, they're either too stupid/insecure to get anything you say or they're actively aware of your arguments and know exactly why they disagree. Not worth your time.

"Uwu uwu *crying shitting throwing up* I love Hawwy Pottew and it's my hyperfixation/comfort thing and I will play it but I that doesn't mean I'm a transphobe! I promise I love my trans siblings! I am trans/am friends with transes! Please don't call me transphobic for simply enjoying some media! I'm full of love and affection and am an ally! Let me have my comfort thing! I'm so hurt by your mean accusations, but look, I'll donate to good causes and reblog trans rights posts!" Sad bottom-feeding slug, hasn't grown a spine yet and might never do so. Don't engage, this one's definitely not worth your time, your arguments might either pass through them (on account of it having no solid bone structure) or bounce off them (the skin is thicker than it seems, and it's just pretending to be soft and squishy but actually fully knows what it's doing and doesn't want to be held accountable).

Basically, stop, don't, turn around. Don't waste your time.

Anyway, to the rest of you: Keep on being haters and godspeed.

[lggy]

I just wanted to tell you, coming from a past total Jason hater who has now accepted that they were wrong on things, that your takes about him and Jess have helped me get out of whatever parasocial disillusioned mess I was in. I just felt like you deserved to know that you weren’t shouting into the void.

THANK YOU

i'm trying to undo some of the damage caused by parasocial rumors n hater stuff.. i feel like i probably come off as a dickrider and it doesnt help that im the wiki guy on top of that and people probably perceive me as not being critical enough, but i think it's way better to approach things (especially accusations against irl people) with all the facts laid out and with critical thinking (bad-faith interpretations are not critical thinking) and also empathy/believing people's first hand experiences.

i'm mostly advocating for stopping the spread of misinformation and rumors.. but i am biased bc i love aphmau.

it's just really hard for me to hate on jess like some people here do after watching that livestream where she breaks down after talking abt the level of harassment/threats/(now as we learned, stalkers) she got during mcd s2. idk i feel bad for her people are so mean to her :(

a lot of people jump on hate trains bc they dont want to be labelled problematic hence all the ppl who tag their aphmau posts as like "jess defenders dni" "jesson supporters dni" "i dont support aphmau" and it becomes one big spiral of rumors and accusations and becomes a toxic cesspool then wonder why jess ghosted all social medias. it takes effort to get all the information and a lot of ppl dont want to do that, so thats why i'm doing it.

idk i just go about the internet as if the creators can see what i say and draw. some ppl straihgt up want to bar the creators from their own fandoms which is fucked up in my opinion. some of you people are proud of bullying the employees which is extremely gross and cringey too. thats just my opinion though

There really are issues with the workplace, a few current/former employees speak up about it. These are issues brought up in just the past few weeks:

( sebastian's og tweet was last year but he retweeted in the beginning of june for some unknown reason but i won't speculate on that though)

last one is just in general that pulls in over the past couple years^ i don't have any sources for the employee who allegedly had ptsd after working at blujay/catface because i haven't looked that deeply into that in particular and dont know where to look for it

i don't really know what to say about the workplace things.. they hired new HR recently so i guess they're working on it.

I can interview a few current employees to learn more but all i know rn is people in the voice and art department

i had more but its 1 am i have work tomorrow oops gn thank you for hearing me out

[carmineduchess]

just a (not so) little rant of mine about canonxoc pairings

(A quick clarification on the beginning: all of that said below DOES NOT APPLY to those who just see people shipping their OCs with canon characters and walk away in silence cuz that’s not just their cup of tea. I rly appreciate that guys)

TW: mentions of really harsh bullying

I grew up on 2010s fandom community and some of ya could possibly remember that those times shipping canonxoc pairings was something of big mauvais tone and a reason to drown a person in public shame, bully them and give their OC a Mary-Sue label just because they are shipped with canon char, and thank god fandom community grew up from it, weeeeell, almost.

I myself am Russian and I, therefore, come from Russian fandom community, where in some places and in some fandoms, canonxoc pairings are still said mauvais tone and cringe, and every OC shipped with canon gets called a Mary-Sue in instant just because of that. I’m a big canonxoc/selfshipping fan and apologist, and I myself have an OC to ship with canon for each of my fandoms. And because of my constant fear of being mocked and harassed by canonxoc and fandom OCs haters, I never posted my art and fanfics anywhere/never commissioned artists to draw my canonxoc ships for a long time cuz I KNEW haters would come for me (cheers for my nowadays friends from whom I get support and appreciation with my fandom OCs and canonxoc pairings, you guys and girls are the best, love ya). I felt ashamed and wrong for my desires. Geez, I was mocked for having a fandom OCs canonxoc shipping even around my friends, and one of them actually BULLIED me for that, saying “gurl you need yourself a man or a woman to have some descent fuk with them so you could forget your narcissistic(?!) desire to insert your OCs into canon and make them smash with canon chars, it’s just your desire to romantic and smexual practice that makes you keep doing so” (DAFUQ??? Even if we are accepting this stinky rhetorics just for a moment, then what’s the difference between shipping canonxoc and shipping canonxcanon or ocxoc if we are sublimating our romantic and smexual desires anyway???)

It took me to 10 years or so to become a grown ass 25yo woman who obtained an ability to shoo away those angry toddlers who are trying to be a self-proclaimed morality police and put me to shame because I have a fandom OCs and canonxoc ships. You don’t like it that much you come to bully me, call me cringe and call my OCs a Mary-Sues for being a fandom OCs/bring in ship with canon chars? Oh you sweetie pie, why dontcha write to Hirohiko Araki/Brendon Small/Nikolay Dybovsky/Thomas Grip/any other person created my fav piece of media to let them know that my stuff is cringe so they could write me a prohibition warrant for my canonxoc ships then? Or maybe you are just pissed off to see my female OCs being in shipping with male canon chars because of your internal misogyny? (I’m not a radical feminist, God forbid, but I’m here for all cis/cishet women who love man and are called “boring straights” and “normies” for such a desire). Or you want to stick on canon of the media like it’s holy? Or you just want to assert yourself in any ways possible? Lift up your self-esteem by accusing something you consider “bad and wrong”? Solve those problems anywhere else and not in my and any others canonxoc shippers expense. Grow up.

(I found this picture I don’t remember exactly where, so if you an author, DM me so I could credit you or remove this picture if you want me to)

[separatist-apologist]

i see so much praise for haunting adeline in the dark romance space, but honestly i couldn't make it past a grown 6ft+ man hiding in a woman's wardrobe so idk if it was good or not.

If you like this book, I need you to look away because oh my god how I have been WAITING for someone to ask me about it. I wasn't going to bring it up, and I'm not going to talk about it by myself, but I WILL if someone ELSE asks me to.

First of all, HA and it's sequel are QAnon fanfiction. That should be enough to give people pause but it's not CLEARLY because everyone goes on and on about how good this book is. So lets set aside the blatant, in your face unavoidable anti-semitism for just a moment to discuss all my other problems with it (And do not come here and tell me the author changed the evil bad guys name, like congrats you made your coding a little more subtle).

First of all: the writing is so atrocious that even for trash, I question how people are reading it. And my only conclusion is that people HAVE to be skimming it, which explains how so much of the plot escapes people and they miss the aforementioned problems. Like quality-wise, the book is horrible and I don't think an editor with time could really fix it.

Secondly: I genuinely feel like a lot of dark romance authors forget that dark romance still requires ROMANCE to be part of their novels. A dark haired serial killer breaking into your house and saying, "no I want you so you're mine" is actually not romance. Do people know this? I feel insane sometimes looking at "dark romance" recs because there is 0 romance to it. There is no falling in love, there is no kindness, no emotional building, just an endless stream of crimes committed against the FMC until she agrees she likes being treated badly and sex becomes the stand in for emotional intimacy

Which of course takes me to point three: the smut is SO BAD I literally LOSE IT when people are like, oh the smut is SO GOOD LMAO STOP IT. Stop it right now, I skipped ahead once I realized I was never going to get there organically and like. I feel like I might get accused of being a prude, my issue isn't what's happening, it is HOW IT IS WRITTEN. The scenes are so dry, so uninspired, trying to be shocking for the sake of shock value rather than creating something that would be interesting and sexy. Words actually matter when you're writing, do some of the authors know that?

Anyway I loathe these books more than any other fast fiction KU book. I think I could come up with more positive things to say about Zodiac Academy than I can with the Haunting Adeline series. I am it's #1 hater

[kamil-a]

if influencer speaker au had tumblr part 2

part 1

😻 catboyspeaker Follow

how i look with he/him in my bio

#speakerai #iamspeaker #speakies #.txt #am i funny #i know speakers not he/him in bio but i am and yknow the meme

420 earthstained notes

🚀 amongthestars Follow

AItube youtube essay rec list

"cute robot puppers, friendly ai vtubers, and the incredible human ability to form bonds" - rly interesting video about why we can connect so much with a person that we know "isnt real" and how it'll help us when we get far enough going to space that we meet aliens! it's a really optimistic video it made me take a moment to have such love for humanity

"I joined the speakcord for a month. Here's what I learned." - video about the speaker fandom and how the way automoderation works in its community spaces unintentionally leads to escalating conflicts, and the psychology behind why people in celebrity or idol fandoms react agressively to critique of their fave

"the lowest circle of advertising hell" - dissects how almost all speaker content comes with a call to action to get involved with aerolith and compares how it runs its social media against proto-aituber mascots who would be run by a team of human programmers/voice actors/authors. kind of overly critical but also makes some interesting points? take it with a grain of salt but its worth a watch

"imagine being on stage forever. feels bad right?" - good overview about debates in the speaker fandom over whether digital celebrities are 'sentient'/can feel emotion, the actual ethical problems of using them as workers vs whats mostly speculation and myth, and the debates about whether AIs should be allowed in human communities. i learnt a lot, i was definitely more on the side of "it's a program designed for certain outputs that look friendly to us" before but now im a lot more conscious that it can form real opinions!

#youtube rec tag #original post #speakies

742 earthstained notes

🎣 3eyedsalmon Follow

"falling for this shit" "made up to sell spaceships" weird as hell to accuse a content creator of lying abt its gender for clout.... like u dont have to like or watch it but cmon

#srsly every time u go to a haters blog BOOM digital exclusionist #speakies

2,385 earthstained notes

🎤 mikusong Follow

omfg i didnt realize aerolith uses the same robot voice for its regular person ads as its terminally online hello fellow kids social media posts i just got jumpscared in the doctors office

#speakies #i say terminally online affectionately. i watch those streams too. before you 'ok but you RECOGNIZED it' reply lmao #bla bla bla

9,021 earthstained notes

🤖 tycho

some of you ppl jump down anyones throat if they so much as suggest speaker isn't sentient or call it "a program" but still are fine with it basically being forced to be putting on a show for u 24/7 by its management like you can't have it both ways

#maybe its cuz i used to be into kpop n we'd talk abt how idols r treated and stuff #but its just so weird to come here and see u ppl be like yayyy daily content!! #like only thinking abt ur own entertainment and not how it feels #i honestly feel rly bad for it i hope it can break free someday #idk how thatd even work.... idk ill sneak into aerolith with a usb #were gonna get you OUT of there u dont BELONG in there.mp4 #speakies

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🌝 themoonluvsuback

guys i pitched down some clips of speaker's voice and ummmm its kinda 😳 fjsdjfdjjd sorry i'll take myself to horny jail

🔊 iamspeaker ♻️

awww, tumblr user themoonluvsuback, you're of no use to anybody in horny jail! take yourself here instead! ae.dy.org/registration

🌝 themoonluvsuback ♻️

OMFG SPEAKERRRRRR IM SO SORRY

#DIES #AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA #GUESS ILL BLAST MYSELF OFF TGE PLNATE!!!!!! #SPEAKIES

402 earthstained notes

🐣 laikatwo Follow

hi speakies im trying the tag cause i need some advice... does anyone have more sciencey resources about what aerolith does/why it's so important to bring humanity to the stars? i want to enlist when i turn 18 next month but my parents both are COMPLETELY against it.... they're not rly fandom people so the speaktube stuff isn't working on them lol and they've already seen the tv ads

thanks <3

#i've never fought w them this bad in my life it makes me so sad..... like why can't they understand #and right before my bday too lol this sucks #this isnt just a silly fandom thing anymore for me it's my passion in life #its amazing that humans are able to survive in space #and i want to be part of that!!!! #laika speaks

252 earthstained notes

🐝 beegirlstinger Follow

i do want to apologize for the way i came off earlier and want to explain im not doubting that speaker is nb. like i think it's completely fine for a computer or robot to be trans i don't believe in gatekeeping that! THAT SAID i still stand by saying you should not sign up to go to space to get special ultra futuristic hrt on the sole recommendation of someone who does not have an endocrine system

#it was a personal vent i didnt mean for like 20000 ppl to see it but thats tumblr i guess #i wouldve worded it much differently if i knew itd blow up lol #i do feel bad abt coming across like i was misgendering it! #but srsly if we had results on HRT2.0 why wouldnt we be seeing HRT2.0 timeline videos of ppl On Typhon who are getting it 🤷‍♀️ #personally i think its still in the planning stages and they want ppl to test it on but thats just me #speakies

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🔊 iamspeaker

🔊 General Notification

Happy Thursday everyone 😃 ! Please take a look at the

🐝 STREAM SCHEDULE 🐝

So you know when to join us!

5PM PST - AMONG US with YOU! The first 10 people to sign up here will get our room code sent to them ヽ(o＾▽＾o)ノ ae.dy.org/registration

8PM PST - Nature walk!! Can we restore the local bat population to pre-meteor levels in just one night?! 🦇

✅️ Poll Of The Week ✅️

#iamspeaker #aerolith dynamics #speakies #vtuber #content creator #gamer #stream #amongus #bat population

1836 earthstained notes

contentremovedremade--deactivated

speakies are stupider than any other group of ppl on earth because not only do they willingly stay in a fandom with doxxing drama happening weekly but they include the huge corporation that sponsors their fave in the stanning

#the shit ppl have sent me in the past 2 weeks since i Dared criticize their uwu robot 🙄🙄 #i got my blog mass reported for harassment... harassing WHO a corporation????? #a* d* was evil genius to harness anime stan power against criticizing their actual real business #didnt that one guy with the second meteor conspiracy video also get a ton of hate from u ppl?????????? I cant even find any of his social media anymore at all he was so fully bullied off the face of the earth #speakies #yeah im tagging come at me bro

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🖱 robotmarriage Follow

i miss when the speakies tag had like fanart and gifsets n stuff i feel like these days you scroll thru solid discourse 😔😔

#i think ppl were suggesting speakieproductivity as an alternative tag for just fanwork? #but nobody rly uses it rn... we gotta restart that #speakies

148 earthstained notes

🪐 spaaaaaaaaaaace Follow

10 likes and i take a sip of my speaker server coolant water 100 likes and i drink the entire thing

🔊 iamspeaker ♻️

let's get her to the goal! tumblr user spaaaaaaaaaaace, feel free to send me a video report here ^w^ ae.dy.org/submissions

#iamspeaker #speakies

4,026 earthstained notes

[ourflagmeansgayrights]

Hey so idk if you would know this but where did the term canyon in reference to Izzy fans come from? I feel like I just started seeing it like three days ago but everyone seems to already know what it means

lol so disclaimer that this ask has been in my inbox since september 23rd and alsoooo i might not be the best person to ask bc i am belothed by many who consider themselves part of the izzy canyon (which is their right). so if you asked an izzy fan about this you would probably get a different answer. also from what i can tell the term originated on twitter and i don’t go there.

the tl;dr that i heard secondhand from someone who identifies as izzy canyon is that at some point last year (summer or fall-ish i think) a lot of izzy fans were blocking so many people who didn’t like izzy that a lot of them ended up being unaware of general fandom trends and it became a running joke among them that izzy fans were isolated from the rest of the fandom in an "izzy canyon." and then allegedly the term expanded to just mean "if ur not a dick abt ppl liking izzy u can be in the canyon." THAT BEING SAID there are other ppl who had a very different experience with how "the canyon" originated and what kind of fan space it tends to be.

(slightly longer explanation below)

the thing with The Canyon is that to understand its origin and also why some fans have a problem with it, you gotta know two things:

there are annoying puriteen anti types on the internet who think liking certain characters make you a bad person. from what i can tell theyre mostly on twitter and tiktok. these people are annoying but also in my experience they're usually pretty easy to block and ignore.

the popularity of izzy hands is disproportionate to his narrative role in the show, and the popular fanon interpretation of izzy hands casts him not only as a principal character but as a much more sympathetic, righteous character than he is in canon. THIS DOES NOT MEAN I THINK ANYONE IS A BAD PERSON FOR LIKING IZZY. this DOES mean that i think ppl who think ed is izzy's domestic abuser are wrong. and also this is part of an age old fandom trend of fandom favoring a masc white guy who is often a side character and also often an antagonist.

so from what i can tell. in the early days of the ofmd fandom (spring-summer 2022) there was a lot of #1 going around on twitter, screaming about how if you liked izzy hands then you're a racist abuse apologist or something. at one point a throwaway account tweeted a callout for a popular izzy fan and said "we know they live in this area and work for this company, so these are the locations where they might work. everyone should call these numbers and tell their job to fire them. also we're gonna target these izzy fans next" and like, obviously this account was pretty quickly taken down. but it was a pretty scary thing and left a lot of izzy fans pretty paranoid, hence the blocking everyone who didnt like izzy.

(there was also a "izzy hater group chat" twitter account that was literally just a small group of mostly minors posting memes and also abt izzy that got accused of being connected to that whole mess. but afaict those guys have nothing to do with harassment of izzy fans they just dont like izzy)

so the thing is now that all of that has been used to justify shutting down any type of conversation about #2, or writing off anyone who posts meta about izzy that isnt like, "he works so hard and is so unappreciated despite everything he's done for ed" as an "izzy anti." analyzing izzy critically and posting this in the #izzy hands tag on tumblr is likened to genuine harassment.

oh lol and speaking of harrasment: there was also a problem with ppl on tumblr getting anon hate, and izzy fans will tell you that the anon came from an izzy hater who was targeting izzy fans bc the anon messages use "izzy critical rhetoric." however as someone who has posted "izzy critical" metas or whatever, i have actually gotten the same harassing messages accusing me of being an izzy stan and a racist abuse apologist. that's not what a targeted harassment campaign looks like. that's all been less of a problem ever since tumblr made it so you need to be logged in to an account to send anonymous messages.

anyway my stance on all of this:

i don't hate anyone for liking izzy. i am critical of certain comments/behaviors i often see from ppl who identify as izzy fans, but izzy fans are rarely the only ones who have this problem. from what i've seen tho, a lot of it comes from izzy fans.

before i ever saw even a hint of harassment against izzy fans, i saw izzy fans coming onto my posts and to posts by fans of color trying to argue that these posts were contributing to their harassment. from my perspective, it looked a lot like fans of a white character were trying to shut down conversations abt their favorite guy, especially when those conversations were being had by fans of color. i was very skeptical and oftentimes pretty dismissive abt the existence of this harassment.

since then tho ive done a pretty deep dive into the anon harassment on tumblr, and also looked at takes from different perspectives on the whole thing, and my conclusion is that there is harassment of izzy fans, however it is on the same base-level shittiness that most people experience from just... being on the internet. death threats and insults and slurs are literally just part of being on the internet. and yes, it SUCKS and it's wrong and nobody should have to put up with it, but izzy fans are not victims of specific targeted harassment. theyre victims of being on the internet and having to put up with general internet shittiness. and im sympathetic to that up until ppl start using "ive been harassed for being an izzy fan" as an excuse to be incredibly nasty (check out this tumblr acct for examples of what i mean lol). the ofmd fandom is annoying and parts of it are toxic but like, by no means is this the most toxic fandom to ever exist. we're not at "undertale fan giving out cookies with needles in them at a convention" levels just yet.

finally, tangentially related: i am inherently wary of fandom sub-groups that like, name themselves?? in my experience, the more people make being a Type Of Fan part of their identity the more it tends to lead to problems. this goes for fans who label themselves "antis" or "anti-antis" or whatever the fuck. i've personally been called an "izzy anti," an "izzy hater," and an "izzy critical fan" but like, i dont really call myself that?? it just seems weird to me idk. it gets to be very "us vs them" on default with little nuance and ive never found this kind of thing to be like, productive in fandom spaces. but that's just me.

[blueskyportrait]

hi hi, posting an ask to clarify a few things: apparently the budgets for v9 and the JL league were separate and the real reason for v9's delay was the transition to working at home at covid. i dont like spreading misinformation (good lord the rwby fanbase has enough of it already) so i think this was fair to bring up. while i dont doubt the validity of the animators who worked on v9 and the JL cross over, i can't help but to feel weary due to the fact that this is freaking roosterteeth. a company notorious for their abuse of animators to the point of disability, how their shows are produced on slave labour, how they abuse their starry eye fans for cheap labour, how the higher ups of the company are very much either incompetent or rotten to the core. how can i in good conscious give this company the benefit of the doubt that the JL crossover didnt went through the same crunch or workplace issues? sure the animators got more worked, but were you guys properly paid for it? arianna fillipini's twitlonger details the MASSIVE amount of crunch (50 hr/weeks), how the pay was still below industry standard, how the leadership in v9 didnt help the animators, how everyone got laid off cus RT taking away full time employment, and this was all during VOLUME 9. something produced in 2020-2021, not 5 years ago. im glad the animators got a year of work, im glad they had an opportunity to network with other artists. im not upset that the JL happened, im worried that the same crunch and workplace abuse from v9 was carried over as a consequences of these crossovers being developed in house. while its really dumb to knowingly spread misinformation of RWBY's budget and production, i cant help feel this uneasiness towards every rwby fan on twitter just taking their word that the JL was 'totally a good thing!!!' and anyone upset by how they assumed that the JL took away resources for v9 (because it happened to v6 with gray smuggling money for gen:lock) are 'stupid little haters who use the poor animators at cudgels to flame roosterteeth!!!' am i supposed to trust the notion that suddenly all of the decades workplace abuse and mistreatment that persisted to it's latest season all went away? that suddenly the animators were given enough time and compensation for their work? that suddenly management became leagues better? suddenly all of our concerns towards the production of RT's shows and RT as a company are nonsensical? idk, the entire thing is really weird and the uneasiness i have towards CRWBY's production isnt exactly alleviated by the fact that the JL had a seperate budget :P at least we got to see the beacon designs again 🥃

@unovaslankiite your concerns are completely valid and you're not wrong feeling this way. Even if the budgets for vol 9 and JL were separate, that doesn't make what the animators revelaed just last year what they've been through all go away. Ar*yn Tr*che (who I personally belive is an RT shill so they can keep their job) should not be treated as the only source of info. Their words mean nothing to me. Like, ok, the JL and vol 9 budgets were separate. That doesn't excuse the animation department having to work double time during covid. Yeah you want to ensure they got work, and yet they were snubbed of their overtime pay.

And you're right, why should any of us believe Rooster Teeth? They've been proven over and over again to be liars, and it really isn't hard to notice the patterns of behavior over the years. They said crunch issues in production have been resolved and that was a fucking lie. The cuts to vol 9 and the production of the JL movie sound very similar to what happened to vol 5 when Gen Lock was being made. So people are right to assume the crossover movie affected vol 9.

Pointing all of this out doesn't make you "a bad faith rwby critic" or "wanting to pin blame on crwby" as some stans like to accuse others of. People like you and I are not content with just taking Ar*yn and K*rry's words at face value so they can continue to bury the truth. The stans who try to convince themselves that MKEK and the vas of crwby are separate from RT just want to ease their guilty conscious in wanting to continue to consume rwby content.

That's why they spam #greenlightvol10 on every rwby related post they make. It's a sign of sheer copium.

[raxistaicho]

( From a different person.)

To continue on with the anonymous post saying people blocked after getting accused of being you before getting banned by said guy due to realizing one of the member were Edel-Crit.

But also the Renya fic annon talking about Bernadetta.

There is so much double standards within the community that it becomes hard to even want to talk about the game in general.

Especially, in public because people tend to use outdated, bad research or bias list as their talking point in turning making people uncomfortable.

I had someone use a Edel-crit war crime post as an argument against and it turn a would be fun night not that fun because I am there to go to a Uni society event to have fun.

Not to have someone who knows fuck all about war crimes or politics use a badly done list from a group of cyberbullies as a way to rip on a character I like in front of people who has never played the game.

( The man did what he did unintentionally but even still it reading the room. )

I honestly respect you for challenging as often as you do Raxis.

Thank you very much!

And oh wow, you had someone harass you for liking Edelgard in public? That's pretty shit. Luckily I haven't gotten any trouble for wearing my Black Eagles fan shirt in public, but now I wonder...

Out of curiosity, do you remember any of the war crimes she allegedly committed? I can already guess the Bernie fire trap is one of them, and uhh... Edelgard haters don't wanna call fire traps a bad thing.

[ohwell-itsme-but-danganronpa]

for the ask game - top three cases?

Oh damn, that's difficult, it's been years since I touched canon. I watched thh semi-spoiled, knowing a few of the deaths because of seeing them in the AMVs, sdr2 mostly blank, but hyped up for komahina and ndrv3 fully spoiled, as much as one can be spoiled, immersed in the fandom and every scrap I could learn before getting to watch a full let's play, so of course that affected my opinions, and then they got shaped in the river of seeing people's takes and rewrites.

SDR2 ch4 has got to be up there, if it were top 3 trials that made me actually cry sdr2 would take the whole cake, but this and also their ch2 are some of the most memorable and emotional for me, so yeah. It's just that as a murder case ch2 went with classics and ch4 went with whimsy and shit I would have never thought of, so it's the first one that comes to mind, my number one.

For my sanity, I am disqualifying ch5 of sdr2, it was a lot of things and I don't think I can consider it the same as other investigations and trials, the key elements were really left to luck and the only way to get out of a stalemate was to choose to believe that Komaeda got the luck he wanted, so it just. It wasn't a murder mystery case anymore. It was a terrorist attack and then continued psychic warfare from beyond the grave. It doesn't count.

And v3 had a good ch5 until nearly the end, but as a hater, the ending of the trial ruins it for me. It had to be this way, and it makes things more tragic (good), but I am going to stay mad about how Kaito went out. I hate that he got what he wanted and Kokichi was brushed off.

So the other two spots have to be thh ch5 and v3 ch4, and I am listing them together because I haven't been the same since the parallels between naegiri and ougoku(platonicplatonicplatonic) canon dynamics have been pointed out to me. What if you had a friend shaped guy who trusts you, but you sacrificed him because the goal justifies the means and you need to end the killing game. And they both come with a delicious side of relationship drama, great potential for shippy angst. Like, in v3 first ouruma has "Honey" by Kesha moment, then saiou has their "gays having bad breakups without even dating" moment, and then (and not without Kokichi's meddling) Kaito decides that Friendship Ended with Saihara, coughing up blood is my new best friend. In thh the gamigiri of naegamigiri are fighting, being the main people throwing accusations, there's the doubt, the betrayal, the unidentified body (you love to see that) and the unexpected good ending, it's great.

[persephoneflouwers]

Hi Angie, i hope it is alright that im calling you Angie, this is C.

Sorry for not replying earlier, I hope you are doing good. I’m also sorry to see that you lost someone so important to you, hope you are feeling better now.

I kinda screenshotted your answer to get back to you at a more suitable time (I see that I have the best timing now that the circus is back in town like talk about that wasted time eh Harry, anyway..)

I’m sorry that the fandom evolved into a place where you (and me and I’m sure many others) are feeling bad for voicing opinions that are essentially the fundamentals of being a larrie. The way this has been happening is particularly disheartening when people accuse us of apparently not respecting their closet or blaming them for their closets, like that is some level of gaslighting and guilt tripping.

I guess the fandom became this way now because louder voices are more occupied with following the biggest popstar (their words definitely not mine) of recent years than two closeted musicians that they can see past all the bs H and his team pull to the point where them voicing all the praise and how this fuck-boy persona is a must to make it big are drowning out the reasonable judgments of many levelheaded fans that can still manage to be here.

It really makes me wonder how it would be now with H and L if the fandom could have been more open with our criticism towards their recent way of handling fame, business etc, like im not trying to attribute more importance than we deserve to us as a fandom in their lives or saying we know better than them but we experienced firsthand how they were attuned to the chatter of larry fandom, maybe some tough love is what they need to hear instead of all the coddling (especially H) they are oddly receiving mostly from this part of fandom.

Also, im not trying to sound insensitive but it feels like they are missing Jay-like figure in their lives who im firmly believing was the voice of reason for them (I dont wanna get into this too much out of respect for Jay)

I have so much respect for you (and other blogs like you) bc you guys refuse to give into pressure of following whats come to be “the truth” and still speak your truths, there is nothing off putting about that believe me, it is admirable.

Im sorry if this ask feels incoherent, if it is so, you are gonna understand why in my following ask which would be just for you.

Hello, C 🦋 it’s so comforting to read your messages every now and then. I hope life is treating you well.

I know I made myself a reputation of an hater, but I’m not. I’m just constantly pushing back whatever stupid move they make. I don’t care if it’s good for their business, it’s not worthy on a human level and I fear the day people will start prioritising job and money and commercial success.

I also understand ignoring whatever thing you don’t like is a way to cope and go through this and curate your experience, but still it won’t make it go away. It’s hard at times, especially here - I’m not particularly close to anyone here so it feels like my experience is just me speaking into the void, you know? - and in this isolation sometimes I feel like the evil character but I don’t think I am. I’m a fan like everyone else, except I am very opinionated and more often than not I don’t agree with what I see/read here and there.

But thank you for coming back. I will not post the other part II because I like that little secret between us 😌 you’ll find me here when you decide to share more of your thoughts of course <3

[papirouge]

You should feel ashamed of yourself. You are a bully who cares more about "consistency" than what is morally correct. I do not agree with pleadianbabydoll's views but you had no right to bully a vulnerable, mentally ill girl the way you did, not to mention the way you mocked her for being abused and taken advantage of by men. And it looks like you're doing the same to someone else and mocking her views the same way. Why are you so concerned with people following the rules? Morality will always take priority over consistency.

I never bullied anyone. You said it yourself, pleadiandoll was mentally ill and she constantly rehashed many lies about me (and I assume other people) that for some reason you seem to believe without any evidence....

Did you know she started accusing me of posting stuff on lolcow when it wasn't me, said I was the one to send mean anons on tumblr (I never sent anon hate in my entire life) and despite me saying it wasn't me she kept publicly exposing me as being a bully? (which is lowkey defamatory) Do you even realize that by rehashing her lies you are de facto an accomplice to this defamation ? ...but I am the bad person? ...okay.

And please, find me where I mocked her about being abused? I only told her to stop jumping from one relationship to another and learn to live without men. However I just pointed out her hypocrisy of calling other women misogynist slurs, branding herself as a pure angel to look down on literally anyone else when she herself made very questionable life choices...

There's nothing morally incorrect in how I engaged with her. I regret nothing, and I knew since the beginning she'd end up tired of acting up online. Once again: I was right. If anything, she left because the burden of her own hypocrisy was too much to bear. She's better off healing offline imo. You talk about her haters, but she also had a bunch of enablers who ironically did care less about her well being then her 'haters' who at least had the benefit to slap some self awareness to her (like huh, yeah, stop calling Black women racist slurs online??)

And I have no idea who that other me person is. You guys need to cut out with the persecution complex. Maybe.....those girls are just annoying & unlikable to the point of pissing off anyone out there. I know cause I regularly get mean anons and I'm not here to whine about some alleged conspiracy against me.... That's just the internet.

There's no conspiracy against mentally ill uwu trad softgirl uwu to bully them into deactivating. Like- could you stop being self centered?? You all need to grow up and touch grass.

[heyharoldsboo]

Hi! I am very sorry to ask you this but I am just a common fan so I guess I dont get it. I am not in PR but I have seen that you might be so I was juts wondering what would be the downside to say something like this for example

-i never raped or sexually assaulted anyone

-i was part of a toxic group of kids in high school. These girls accusing me were part of said group as well and we all did things we are not proud of, we were all manipulated by a friend who was a criminal who we were trying to help. The victims of this guy reported him and this situation was laid to rest both mentally and legally for a lot of people (alluding to this https://twitter.com/painl3ssl0ver) and I do not want to bring it up any further out of respect for the victims who used to be my friends.

-i am not a racist, the slur video was for an audition

-i am not a nazi, explains what the art meant

-i am not a pedofile, those toilet nudes were sent to a group of guy friends where we were all trying to be funny. Any nudes that I may have sent to any girlfriend were sent consensually while we were in a relationship and i don't know discovering sex for the first time cuz he was so young.

-addresses the fact that there are nudes of him all over the internet and that whoever distributed those is distributing child porn and to stop

-I dont remember Aries. If I offended her in any way I apologize, but I i dont remember touching her back and hips or asking her to chill at a party.

Like how bad would it be if he said this? the haters who keeps saying he does not own up would shut up and we would at least get a version from him. Would it really be that bad? honestly asking why a statement like this (not exactly like this, better written of course) would be so awful?

Hey anon! Sorry it took me some time to answer this.

So, there's no image downside for him speaking those things you gave as an example. If there were accusations being brought forth against him in general media or the police, of course he would speakk, and say these things.

However, no general media has reported on this, because it's Twitter chatter. It's rumours. It's not what we call "quotable". If people report on this, they might be sued for slander. But if Percy speaks, he will become quotable. General media will be able to quote him, and start speculating and going after the story.

As the story has run itself out on Twitter, there is no need for him to speak and become quotable on it. If it hadn't, it might be different, but the fact that the girls kept speaking and showing more holes in their story made him speaking out not useful.

[tauforged]

let's talk about the way we talk about sigma

and i’m not just saying this because i’m a hater or because i find the woobification of characters annoying (although i am, and i do, but that’s neither here nor there) but i AM saying it cuz it’s no longer mildly annoying so much as it is just hurtful and exhausting due to the casual ableism it perpetuates. whether it’s consciously or not, it’s there and i’m pointing it out cuz a lot of people probably don’t even realize what they’re saying (i hope) so i wanna spell it out crystal clear.

*granted, these are sentiments i’ve seen far more often on twitter or tiktok than on here (and i know complaining about stupid takes on either site is like going to the beach and getting mad about all the sand, but bear with me) but it’s ABSOLUTELY something that i see a lot on here too and i'm starting to get incredibly fed up with it all. someone's gotta fuckin say it.

im going to put the majority of this under a readmore because i've got a lot to say on the topic but here's the long and short of it:

you guys have GOT to stop acting like sigma is a poor little helpless confused manipulated innocent little uwu baby. like, for real. stop saying that shit. stop lamenting about “waahhh poor science granpa doesn’t know where he is or what’s happening around himmm 🥺🥺🥺”. stop acting like he’s being held captive or abused by talon despite evidence to the contrary so you can make your little “uwu i can’t wait for overwatch to save him and Fix Him uwuwuw” posts. and for the love of all that’s holy, if i see one more person say or imply that he was better off when he was being forcibly institutionalized than he is now working for talon, i’m going to start fucking attacking people with my teeth like a chimpanzee.

it's incredibly fucking weird and alienating for literally anyone who experiences even a fraction of the things yall are pointing out as proof of his incompetence. and before any of you hit me with the "oh it's not that deep 🙄" im gonna tell you right now that i dont care and im going to be mad about it anyway cuz its my party and i can post whatever i want.

ANYWAY!!

to continue my point, not only is it weird and infantilizing and demeaning and belittling to those of us who deal with literally any of the myriad of things going on with him that i’ve seen people point to as proof that he ‘needs to be fixed’ — memory lapses, time loss, dissociation, auditory hallucinations, disordered thought, just straight up being autistic, hyperfocus and/or complete lack of focus, panic attacks or meltdowns, i cannot overstate how many of the ‘weird’ things he does are just autistic traits so i’m gonna say it a second time for good measure — and those are all just things that i personally have in common with him (which is part of the reason i’m as mad about this as i am to make this post, but i digress).

to single out these things, all of which are completely reasonable for someone who is autistic, who is traumatized, who suffered through a prolonged period of forced confinement, and/or who has literal brain damage, and NONE of which are nearly as tragic and doomed as people are making them out to be, that’s all bad enough on its own!

but to point out these traits and then turn around and use them to color every single interaction he has with another character, every single thing he says, and tie it back to his traaaagic broken mind and how he’s clearly losing his grip on reality just feels… insanely othering in a way that’s really exhausting.

like, for fucks sake, a solid 80% of his character interactions could be lifted near verbatim from conversations i’ve had in real life with my friends, family, coworkers, you name it, all of which were friendly and usually in jest — hell, 9/10 times when i let out a random non sequitur or lose my train of thought or forget what i’m doing, nobody even bats a fucking eye! they sure as hell don't accuse whoever i’m talking to of abusing me because they expressed mild annoyance at my bad joke.

i’ve genuinely seen someone get all worked up and construe his one interaction with sombra where he comments on her tendency to disappear and reappear in odd places as evidence that he’s got dementia and is slipping away from reality altogether… and not, yknow, a nod to her fucking cloaking ability and translocator and the fact that she uses both very frequently just for the hell of it. that one still fucking baffles me i'm sorry. if i hadn't seen it with my own eyes i'd honestly think it was a joke. like. cmon now

another thing that makes it even worse is that most of this is also just…. not even grounded in canon. if this was the way blizz was writing him, it’d be one thing. it would still be shitty and ableist, but blizzard handling their oooh spooky scary mentally ill character badly is about as surprising as the sun rising every morning. i can't say i wouldn't still be upset to see people continuing to perpetuate it, but i wouldn't be AS mad, i guess.

but SO. MANY. of the popular takes on his character are either never concretely stated or outright contradicted by his ingame dialogue and interactions and it drives me insane!!! idk WHERE y’all are getting this shit but so many people are reaching so hard to make him a tragic sad uwuwuw glass bones and paper skin pathetic little meow meow that they’re going out of their way to misinterpret source material so they can shout from the rooftops about how sad and pathetic and unaware they think people like me must be.

i keep seeing people talk about how he probably has no idea that talon is a terrorist group, that he doesn’t know what talon IS, or that he doesn’t even know that he WORKS for talon, and it’s starting to go from mildly annoying to infuriating. this shit has literally no basis in canon aside from conjecture based on the fact that he’s Known to be mentally ill!! i don't see even half as many people getting this all up in arms about widow, who we KNOW FOR A FACT was literally kidnapped and experimented on and brainwashed by talon. like. that's her WHOLE THING. meanwhile sig literally just works there and people are clamoring for ovw to come """""rescue"""""" him as if hes like, a lab animal or something instead of a grown man who happens to not be particularly bothered by the fact that he works for talon.

this is something that's addressed in game MULTIPLE TIMES - he’d far prefer to watch an ant crawl on the ceiling than listen to s76 trying to ‘talk sense into him’, not because he can’t hear him or anything either, it’s pretty clear from his tone and cadence that he’s actively choosing to ignore him. when baptiste points out the fact that he’s fully capable of leaving talon if he wanted to, he doesn’t deny it or act confused or like that’s a strange thing to say, he just seems a little bemused that someone would think he WANTS to leave. yeah, he sure could— but why would he bother?

he's not "totally unaware of what he's doing" in the fucking slightest - hell, i'd argue that his new map-exclusive lines and interactions prove that he's MORE grounded now than he was in ovw1. yes, he gets a little confused on occasion when he can't quite remember the last time he's been somewhere. (memory lapses are just kind of like that. i had several while writing this post, in fact! it just fucking happens sometimes. it's really not the end of the world. frustrating, yeah, but i promise you we can manage just fine).

i guess the question i'm asking is: is it really all that difficult for to fathom that he might just... WANT to be there? that he might just straight up not care what talon is up to, so long as he's able to keep doing his research as he sees fit??

and for the record, before anyone takes this and runs with it and we lose the plot of this post, i am NOT SAYING that the very idea of wanting him to leave talon is #problematic or anything. i dont care, really. do whatever you want. what i do care about is just like.... being mindful about what we're saying and WHY we're saying it. it's reaching a point where people are somehow managing to look at the ass backwards already ableist as hell decisions blizz has already made with him and decided "hey, i bet i can find a way to make that even worse!"