#I - a Max apologist - say lol

[sysig]

Oh he is So baby (Patreon)

[twig-tea]

I am freaking out about Be My Favorite Ep8. So much happened! All of it so good! How does this show continue to surprise me?!

This isn't going to be coherent, sorry in advance.

First, the way this show never lies to us in the previews but still manages to make us second-guess?! I think @respectthepetty said this first and it's remained true; I was truly blown away by how the preview of Kawi confessing on the balcony was undercut but still borne through, and even moreso how Kawi crying in Pisaeng's arms in the past/present is made more poignant as we the audience realize that Kawi's also reacting to what he knows happens in this moment in the past, which is his father dying. The storytelling! The throughline from that moment of realization last episode! And the additional weight this gives to Kawi's decision to go back anyway, to relive this moment of loss knowing he absolutely could not fix it?! I am freaking out about how good this is. No wonder he hesitated before going back in time! No wonder he was overwhelmed! I'm not ok.

Then that bit about Kawi asking Pisaeng to stay away in public!! As @lurkingshan said this show is definitely paralleling Krist's real experience and real history, and as an apologist/redemption vehicle I have to say it is doing its job, damn, A++ to everyone involved in that decision.

Then we got Pisaeng's mother once again turning me into an absolute rage monster. @waitmyturtles already said what I wanted to say about this, how her suggestion to run is perfectly contrasted with Max's conversation with Kawi about how it may be more difficult but staying and fighting is worthwhile [note: no judgment to people who legitimately have to leave to survive, as a person who only exists because my Jewish relatives left Ukraine before the town was murdered! Time and place, nuance, etc]. I think @bengiyo is right and this woman is evil, and I always love a story where the banality of evil is allowed to shine.

Then. Then!! We got Kawi giving Pisaeng the diary. The way I GASPED. I cannot tell you all how much I was not struggling with Kawi confessing to Pisaeng with the imbalance of both age and knowledge on his side, and this show said "Not Today, Lying By Omission Gang! Full and Enthusiastic Emotional Consent Only" 😭 I have so many emotions about this. When we saw him with it in the preview I was worried Pisaeng had found it and read it and drawn weird conclusions about what Kawi wants (which...I was half right lol). Kawi really did not have to share this at this point in the narrative, and as that balcony conversation showed, it was a hard sell as the truth. But now everything is on the table. The secrets are out! Anything that comes now will be something external, that they can then choose to either fight together or let break them apart.

I have Thoughts about the future mystic guy showing up in this episode. Are we to take his offer as a representation of the "easy way out" and Pisaeng rejecting it as an indicator of his character [This is currently my favourite theory but I'm not fully convinced; it fits with @lurkingshan's brilliant meta about the way this show is pushing for doing the work, accepting consequences, and not taking shortcuts though]? If Pisaeng had said yes, would he have been given a chance to change his past (but it's a strange moment for him to want to change, having gotten hope from Kawi for the first time); or would he have been given a glimpse of his future to help him make a decision in the present? Are we supposed to think that Pisaeng and Kawi are soulmates and this guy is their guardian angel trying to help them get together faster (but he seemed happy that Pisaeng turned him down?)?

And on that note, I just have to say that I am as happy as everyone else that we're seeing Kawi finally take responsibility for his choices and their consequences, finally think about the impact on other people, and work actively to make the lives of his friends better not just his own. It makes sense to me that Kawi needed to see "success" as he'd defined it and realize it sucked before he was willing to let that go. It also makes sense that he'd mature more quickly after getting years of memories every time he goes into the future. And I think experiencing the loss of his father, Pearmai, and Pisaeng in succession via memory really helped him put in perspective who was important to him. He seems to need to see how something falls out rather than thinking it through in advance, so this seems in character as a means of gaining clarity. The way he was talking about himself with Pisaeng in that flashback was so interesting too, "you didn't tell anyone about me, did you?" as though there IS something to tell; living that future really solidified Kawi as Queer for Kawi, in ways his uncertainty in the present/past hadn't. And there's something lovely about Kawi coming to terms with his sexuality in the past because he's seen how much it hurts Pisaeng in the future if he doesn't. I also really, really love that he still hesitated, and had trouble getting it out because as @waitmyturtles said, change is not easy.(This also feels connected to some of what @dribs-and-drabbles has written about Kawi rewriting his sense of self in real-time).

I'm 100% with @grapejuicegay that I want Kawi to decide to live in the past as his present and to be present for it, and shockingly it seems like in this episode he's already come to that decision himself?! Which now has me wondering what the conflict will be in future and what it will have to do with time travel.

I'm calling now [get ready to clown] that Kawi's going to get too tempted to check his future one last time over a decision, even though Pisaeng tells him not to, and gets stuck in a future he doesn't like. Wild speculation: Pisaeng is dead because of Kawi and Kawi goes to the future guy for one last chance, and he's given two choices: keep things as they are or go back to the first timeline. Kawi goes back to the first timeline (because you can't ever really go back and fix your past), but takes the lessons he learned to improve his (and all his friends') present and future. This show has been really good at giving me better than I could come up with, and I'm looking forward to being proven wrong.

Most of all I just want to celebrate in this moment that this show is doing everything I had hoped (none of which I expected to get), and none of what I'd feared, and it has far, far surpassed my expectations!

[rocketturtle4]

Eclipse Episode 10

@thegalwhorants @wen-kexing-apologist @plantsarepeopletoo @grapejuicegay thanks for holding my hand

Of episode 11? Yes I fecking am.

Thoughts in brief (lol) I started taking these while I went fyi so they may feel a bit different from the previous lots idk

The way Akk changes his WHOLE POSTURE when Not!Max says the school motto is telling me everything I need to know here

with bonus award mention! Scholarship goals yada yada

GUYS THUA WAS SHAKING (I've done him dirty)

"What happened today has shaken me, whatever I used to uphold or believe in...has changed" - Thua

Okay so I still think he stole the diary and instigated the protestors but I am less convinced he's behind the other stuff but then WHO IS? also the message after the fire made me think it wasn't him too

Chadok thinks its Akk, is it actually Namo???

Everything about Akk and Ayan on the beach

"Mes managed" "Your time and his are different"

Then the fricken bedroom scene????????

CAN I PLEASE RELATE TO ONE CHARACTER AT A TIME, AKK IS TAKING UP TO MUCH SPACE FOR AYAN TO DO THIS TO ME

and Akk agrees, and he's SO HAPPY but it's not been dealt with yet right he hasn't grappled with his identity

See this is what I mean, he hasn't let go of anything yet he's trying to carry it all and he's going to break I can FEEL IT (I am ALSO PROJECTING WAY TO HARD ONTO AKK IF YOU WEREN'T AWARE - This show basically opened up my DO NOT READ journal from feckin highschool and put it on my screen AH)

THROUGH THE FRICKEN BARS

OTHER PEOPLE NOTICED TOO

AND NOW THEYVE RUN AWAY AHHHHH

for the record I also thoroughly enjoy all the Khan Thua stuff that is going on, it's SO GOOD. It's just that because EVERYTHING IS GOOD (AND I AM PERSONALLY DYING FROM AKKS EVERYTHING) I keep forgetting to mention them

He's SO CLOSE AAAAA

And now they're both at the protest

WAIT DID THUA NOT KNOW ABOUT KHAN being bruce wayne???

"Stop the Suppalo curse" LIKE I STILL WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE CURSE IS AND WHERE IT CAME FROM?

Can I please go back to my regularly scheduled unrelateable highschool characters because this:

Is TOO MANY RELATEABLE CHARACTERS

OH MY GOD KHAN SAID IT

Good on Thua for clarifying about the kiss

Yay theyre together, WHY DOES EVERYTHING FEEL SO OMINOUS

NO NO NO NO

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

at least Ayan is hearing this

reference to the armband and upholding the honour AHHHHH

oh god Aye came in

He's So scared

But THEN AYE JUST LEFT

oh he's gone after Chadok, I get the urge but it's NOT GOING TO WORK

That ship has sailed teacher chick

The breath Ayan takes to try and regulate yelling at the female teacher

THE HUG

Ayan: "I'm worried about you Akk" YOU AND ME BOTH

OH GOD AKK DON"T PUT ON A BRAVE FACE

AYAN IS TRAUMATISED ALREADY OKAY

is he finally going to tell him about his uncle????

OH GOD NO, He did but AKKs Crying HeLP

the neCKLACE

"right now you need it more than I do" CAN I HAVE AN AYAN PLEASE

OKAY real quick

if they use Akks attachment to Ayans uncle to break the schools hold on him without causing him to have a total breakdown I will be okay with this

Next episode doesnt LOOK scary but I AM STILL SCARED

Still confused whether the necklace WAS the uncles or if it was GIVEN by the uncle

Is everyone on the same side now?

Is anyone going to clue Wat in about the fact that his two besties are now in gay relationships? (Like he'll be chill but he should be told)

How much pressure is teacher chick under?

ONTO EPISODE 11

I'm just planning to react again fyi probably with less screenshots

[stars-and-birds]

for the show ask thingy, Stranger Things!!

Ok!!

favorite male character: hmmm gotta be Steve. And all of the og party but probably Steve <3

favorite female character: max or robin!! They mean so much to me

least favorite character: b*lly. No billy apologists on this blog pls. Unless ur my mutual then it’s fine

prettiest character: robin

funniest character: Dustin!! Or robin

favorite season: three id have to say, but I haven’t finished 4 yet

favorite episode: idk lol

favorite romantic ship: ummmm. Gosh I can’t really choose. Maybe Elmax or lumax

favorite family ship: hopper/Byers family deserves each other

favorite friend ship: the og party and max orrrr Steve and Dustin and Robin and Erica

worst ship: the usual, any inc*est or pedoph*lia

Thanks for the ask <3

[rubywingsracing]

Omg thanks for the tag 🤭♥️

Tagged by: @starlightiing

Who is your favorite driver: loml Oscar Piastri

Do you have other favorite drivers: Lando Norris, Charles Leclerc, Max Verstappen, Logan Sargeant. But I will always root for Yoints(Yuki Tsunoda points), will defend the other 2 2019 rookies with my life, and Fernando Alonso apologist.

Who is your least favorite driver: I haven’t at all attempted to hide this bc tbh I don’t care and people can call me toxic but I’m allowed to dislike Daniel Ricciardo as much as I do. I also can’t stand the alpine boys to me there’s just sum off about their vibes. Usually a Carlos Sainz supporter but he gave me the ick at Miami this year

Do you pull for the drivers or do you like the teams as well?: def more driver oriented but I do love McLaren, I’m a Zak Brown denier tho lowkey, in my heart Andrea Stella is both TP and CEO

If you like teams what teams do you pull for: McLaren, Williams, Ferrari, and Haas bc I’m American lmao

How long have you been into F1: Confession: only a couple months haha, I’ve always loved cars, competition and babygirlified men so it was a perfect fit for me.

What got you into F1: the lovely @formulanni a close school friend who sucked my ass right in with her excited rants about F1 and explanations of DTS

Do you enjoy fanfic/RPF: I’ve been a fanfic girlie since I was twelve so that’s a resounding yes haha. But F1 has been my first introduction into RPF and I can definitely say I’ve become a fan, there’s some truly talented people in this fandom who write so incredibly well so it’s quite easy to get sucked right it!!

How do you view new fans: I myself am a new fan so I think that speaks for itself haha

If you could take over as team principal for any team, who would it be and why?: Williams 100% I’m honestly so over James Vowles rn fr. I have absolutely zero qualifications and be running solely on my ridiculous drive, vibes, and gut feeling lmao, but I think it would be fun?

Are your friends and family into F1?: My family is definitely curious and supportive of my obsession and my dad is always interested to hear me talk abt it as well as my little brothers who are in middle school but also think cars going fast are pretty cool. @formulanni is my only irl F1 girlie friend lol and we lose our minds over these men together. I also have a childhood friend who I talk with abt F1 once in a while lol.

Are you open to talking to other fans/making friends?: Definitely! I’ve been a little hesitant at first since I had pretty limited access to interactive spaces on the internet since I was a kid for safety reasons, which honestly I’m super grateful for. But I’ll always answer anyone who wants to chat about F1 or any of the other fandoms I’m part of, always open to requests and or suggestions for fanart too! It’s been super cool meeting people through tumblr and becoming part of an online community!!

Tagging: @formulanni @cx-boxbox @veyronvenus @litany-writes @kingkestrel @jennarations @fifthovertime @kika-writes @serve-cunt @oscars-hair-swirl @jaecantwrite @kissingwalls @wanderingblindly @landoom @clarkeysbog @papayabrain @aphrostiel

And anyone else who wants to participate ofc! 🫶

PSA: Any anti tags are added at the request of fans of that person or team, I’m not intentionally being a dick or toxic I’m literally just respecting someone’s wishes so don’t come for me 😅🙄

F1 Tag Game! Tag some people you'd like to get to know better!

Tagged by: No one, I'm a force to be reckoned with.

Who is your favorite driver?: George Russell!

Do you have other favorite drivers?: Alex Albon, Pierre Gasly, Lando Norris, Oscar Piastri, Charles Leclerc - I like all but 3, really.

Who is your least favorite driver?: Sighs, I don't like admitting to this, but...It's a toss up between three. I'll just name one for now - Alonso.

Do you pull for drivers or do you like teams as well?: I pull for both, really!

If you like teams, what team do you pull for?: Ferrari, Williams, Alpine, McLaren.

How long have you been into F1?: I've watched casually (VERY casually) for a few years but I haven't actually FOLLOWED the sport until the start of this season.

What got you into F1?: My fiancé rekindled my love and got me and my entire family into it right after my grandmother passed literally days before the start of the season. He really brought us a lot of light in a time where we needed it most.

Do you enjoy Fanfic/RPF?: I do. RPF is just a fantasy play world, like a dollhouse. Holds no bearing on the real world - as long as you can separate the two, you're good.

How do you view new fans?: No issue. We were all new fans once, weren't we? Some may barge in with wild takes and hell I probably still do, but overall I think they are just looking to find some friends to help them learn the sport a bit better and then will be integral parts of the fandom once they acclimate!

If you could take over as team principal for any team, who would it be and why?: That's such a stressful job and I am not built for stress. It would have to be like, jesus, I can't really pick. I would do no better than anyone up there doing it right now LOL but I guess it would be COOL to pull Williams up from the depths, yeah? Sorry, James.

Are your friends and family into F1 as well?: Yeah! My parents and sister (and BIL) are into it, my grandpa enjoys it, my fiancé, and then a few of my best friends really enjoy it as well!

Are you open to talking to other fans/making friends?: Always. That's pretty much the only reason I'm here aside from just showcasing my love.

Tagging: @13834 @chilling-seavey @camilleisback @watercolor-hearts @alex-kresnik

@placna @thatsluttylittlesoupcanwaist @alpinegasly @abovecalamity @ohblimeygeorge

@mrgasly @osh-my-prince @oscar-hourglass-piastri @kissingwalls @peachyy-tea

@theluckyalien @faithshouseofchaos @scrappyracers @williams-spare-chassis

@grnherbs @afriques @memoriesofyellow @oscarrrpiastri @georgegraphys

@allphatauri @rubywingsracing @canihavemyhoodieback @landoom

@knut-ut @garykingz @future-oscarwinner @blimeycrikeygeorge @cacklingblobbittyrabbitty

@verstappen1-fan @geochals @ablogtocheck @luna-sibuna-trying @moodymoony71

@ribenab @litany-writes @llenne-siu

@starssfall @petrifying-risotto @its-avalon-08 @spabutterfly @vaniadels

@gnatthefly @1df1fan

I tried to tag everyone I most often see in my notes/in my DMs/in my inbox and who are mutuals <3

[gaycodependency]

v glad for this slight wizards of waverly place resurgence cuz i was alone in 2020 when i rewatched and had so many thoughts and feelings.

here to say i love love love justin (and max) and i wish he was written differently in s4 (and perhaps s3) cuz he could be such an ass, like utterly unlikeable levels (looking at u series finale). and it's upsetting to see because he's prob my fav, it felt horrible to watch him act so cruel towards alex. while he can be selfish (all the russos can be) he's had her back consistently. i just think back to S2E30 when he was upset about them losing their powers but he came around, under the assumption that they WILL lose their powers, because he doesn't want to lose alex and max. now i'm sure they wanted the drama and like the tragedy of the russo kids fulfilling the whole 'wizard competition tears families apart' sorta prophecy but i wish they went about it differently so the audience wouldnt turn against justin and max. and i wish there was growth from him like there was for alex

also see lots of ppl saying who they think deserves being the family wizard while i have A few takes on that, i primarily believe that the whole competition is messed up and they all 'deserve' it. as a justin apologist (lol), seeing ppl say that he absolutely doesn't deserve it because all he did was study and not use magic (use magic 'responsibly') is strange.. esp when he has said that he has to work more (the constant quizzing himself and the songs as shown in S3E03) because it doesnt come naturally to him like it seems to for alex and he ties much of his worth to his ability to do magic well. it feels a bit cold..

[novembernightstars]

who are your top 10 favourite st characters?

ohhh this is hard to answer i’m so indecisive LMAOO

but. my list is probably something like this -

1. easily will. i love him so much i don’t even know what to put for this part LOL he’s easily my all time favorite, it’s not much of a competition

2. oh god this is hard. 2-4 are really interchangeable, so i’m just gonna say…probably mike for this one, if we’re right about all his storyline and repressed emotions. i think he’s very interesting and realistic, i really don’t think he deserves the hate he gets most of the time (although i do sometimes want to throw hands with him and how he treats will. i don’t think he’s a bad person or anything since he has his own issues to go through,, but Holy shit man)

3. robin. self explanatory. she’s perfect

4. probably jonathan. he would be #2, but i really really don’t like the way he took the pictures of nancy undressing in s1, it makes me feel really squeamish even though she forgave him. when writing/talking about him i usually just retcon that from canon and forget it happened. but! aside from that, the way he treats will reminds me a little of my own brother - it means a lot to me. will and jonathan’s relationship in general means a lot to me lol, i really need them to have a happy ending

5. hmm…after 1-4 i’m not too sure. i think i’d maybe put el - i really like her, and especially her interactions with max and will. i very much need her to have a happy ending, she deserves it

6. interchangeable with 7, i think, but other than that probably…lucas. he does not deserve any of the hate he gets. he’s amazing, i really loved his plot line in s4 because it didn’t feel unnecessary or irritating - it felt in line with his character and his struggles.

7. max. self explanatory, i think. i loved her storyline in s4 as well - but my perception of billy and max’s relationship has been very much negatively stained by the billy stans/apologists in this fandom, which is the only reason she isn’t higher. elmax and lumax are so >>>>

8, 9, 10. probably some mix of dustin-steve-eddie, i think. i like basically everyone in st though LOL so this is kinda irrelevant

tysm for the ask!!

[darlington-v]

I know different interpretations of a work are generally enriching and cool... but c!dream villan interpretations is like how to tell me you only watch Tommy without saying you only watch tommy.... which would be fine but its not a great place to be making statements about the whole nature of the dsmp lol

Wild speculation, but sometimes I wonder if like, because the dsmp didn't really start as a narrative, and a lot of fans don't nessecarily enter it expecting a narrative, but then there is one and the fandom is really discourse heavy and everyone is sort of excpeted to have an opinion while maybe not expecting to form one from the begining or not having a ton of experience with narrative in a way that would "expect" them to have an opinion or not take things at face value??, I don't know if I explained that well at all... and I don't really even think thats right nessecarily... but like wow sometimes some of the takes about power and government and villany...

Honestly, it makes sense!!!

I think something interesting is like.... looking at how animatics have shaped the like tone and culture of the fandom essentially. Like, an interesting fact that I didn't really fully grasp until SUPER recently is like...

c!Wilbur out the gate admits he is manipulating c!Tommy. Like his first youtube video on the Dream SMP he admits his goal is to manipulate c!Tommy and people like c!Tommy into helping him achieve a potion ("drug") empire to monopolize on potions because there were a lot of people on the server who like to min-max, which is to put all of your effort into this one specific skill essentially. so like... i know minecraft doesnt have a skill tree but if it did, it would be putting all your points into that one specific branch of a skill tree. So he wanted to exploit the labor of all the TommyInnits to.... maintain a Potion Empire.

THIS IS A LONG POST BC I GOT CARRIED AWAY SO BUCKLE UP

And I don't think a lot of the fandom who joined later on knows this. I certainly didn't until like a week or so ago? Like... I knew c!Wilbur had been manipulative from the start because I'm a mod of (shameless self promo incoming) @dsmpanalysis and we have a lot of different POVs in that mod team and discord and we talk about it really frequently. I joined the fandom as someone who was really big on L'manburg ESPECIALLY crimeboys, and have turned into.... *gestures vaguely to my blog*

And ngl I owe a lot of it to @1-michibiki-1 in terms of c!Dream "Apologism" but all of the mods there have expanded my thoughts and views on the storylines of this narrative.

My application consisted of like largely essays about like... how I think Dream was the villain but he was meant to be the villain because you don't get any insight into his character WHICH.... IS A FAIR ASSUMPTION AT FIRST GLANCE. People are easily villainized when you cannot get a glimpse into their thought process. It's easy to dwindle someone down into this flat character and starting out I knew Dream didn't stream the SMP on purpose.

And I personally came to the conclusion of "Oh! So Dream is supposed to be the villain." However as the story continued and I learned more about what Dream went through I began to realize that... it's more than likely a form of a red herring. My opinions on this were immediately solidified when I watched Ranboo's 2 MIL stream because both Ranboo AND Dream agree on enjoying red herrings.

There have been MANY times were Dream has said that c!Dream is a complex character and he's not a wholly evil guy and there have been times where the narrative has honestly just proved that.

Anyways, what's important though was that... I learned most of this from other people who were more focused on c!Dream rather than myself. Eventually I shifted from c!Tommy to c!Ranboo and c!Techno after c!Tommy betrayed c!Techno and I began to realize.... everything I learned before hopping in wasn't exactly what it seemed.

Part of this is because I'm older, I heavily identify with c!Techno's sense of loyalty and philosophies on government, but I especially identify with the anguish c!Techno voiced in... a lot of lore but especially the lore around Doomsday.

I'm not 16 anymore. I don't always feel wronged by adults, or older people in my case, whenever they absolutely have done something wrong by me, but I do feel wronged by my close friends. I also felt like c!Tommy's sense of loyalty didn't line up with mine after what felt like him constantly flip-flopping and refusing to understand c!Techno's morals on government didn't line up with his.

In short, it was easier to identify with Tommy in these animatics versus in the actual stream content because c!Tommy is played by a 16 year old. I'm not a teenager and my line of thinking doesn't entirely line up with people that age anymore. It's harder to place myself in the same shoes of someone's OC who is played closer to their actual age, because I'm not that age.

Regardless, I was still on the c!Dream is a villain train. I wasn't ever like... c!Dream is repulsive I hate him, but I was like omg hot villain lad go brrr.

Even when the first like... mellohi, panic room, Ranboo lore stream popped up I thought "Oh! c!Ranboo corruption arc?"

And I was excited because I really wanted this shy, nervous character to turn into villain buddies with his good pal c!Dream. I'm a total sucker for villains and corruption arcs and all that good shit.

SO I STARTED GETTING REALLY INTERESTED IN ENDERSMILE. I'VE BEEN ON ENDERSMILE SQUAD OUT THE GATE. NOT THE SAME WAY I AM NOW, BUT I'VE ALWAYS WANTED THEM TO TEAM UP.

So... upon not really keeping up with c!Dream and being relatively??? indifferent? I don't think I started arguments on c!Dream back then, but I might have. But I remember like... starting to participate more whenever c!Dream came up and looking more into Dream's character BUT ESPECIALLY TALKING WITH OUR SERVER'S C!DREAM SPECIALIST MICHI ABOUT DREAM A LOT MORE.

And because Michi has been a watcher since day one and was a DTeam fan rather than a SBI fan, she was able to provide me with more information on how the server worked pre-Tommy but especially pre-Wilbur.

Now, you could definitely argue well Michi probably has clear bias but it made sense to me when I looked back on how the storyline had been constructed and was going along, and everyone in the server talks a lot about our own biases and how we want people to maybe not lean so hard on them. Michi would also provide like anecdotes on what had happened and I'm sure links were probably provided at one point but the point was I felt like Michi had no reason to lie or manipulate how the story was told and if she did, eventually someone would have pointed it out because... Group of like... right now it's around 20 or more analysts but I don't remember how many at the time there were. POINT BEING, WE'VE ALL GOT POINTS TO PROVE AND IN MY EXPERIENCE NOT MANY OF US HAVE BEEN SHY TO PROVE THEM.

So if anyone ever had any differing opinions they would be talked about and we literally had and still have discussions.

REGARDLESS.... I DIDN'T FACT CHECK IN DEPTH BECAUSE I THOUGHT PEER REVIEW WAS ENOUGH WHEN YOU HAVE LIKE HOURS UPON HOURS OF STREAMS TO WATCH.

Anyways. Eventually I started paying closer attention and looking more into c!Dream lore but only recently have I started to triple check before speaking about c!Wilbur lore because I know everyone has biases and while I did trust everyone's thoughts and analysis in the discord, whenever I make essays I typically like it to be largely air tight and if theres a mistake, I want it to be because I forgot not because I just trusted what was said. Plus, I wanted to get down to the specifics of how Wilbur had always started with manipulation on the mind.

SO I WATCHED HIS FIRST VIDEO ON THE DREAM SMP.

AND WHAT I WAS NOT BY ANY MEANS EXPECTING WAS WILBUR TO SAY WORD FOR WORD, VERBATIM,

"SO WHY DON'T I START AN INDUSTRY WHERE I USE THE TOMMYINNITS OF THE WORLD TO WORK FOR ME, TO CREATE THINGS THAT THE MIN-MAXERS OF THE WORLD WILL WANT."

Like... this is in no way an attempt to like hardcore villainize c!Wilbur like everyone does Dream, it's just more so to like REALLY outline how far off a lot of fandom interpretation of c!Wilbur is....

Because of SBI focused animatics.

Now, when I joined I watched A LOT of animatics that really highlighted like... Wilbur being this self-loathing JD-esque, "I destroyed it because I had to because the world was against me because no one loved us, Tommy" type of character. At least... that's what it came across as.

And it definitely highlighted the fact that Tommy was a victim, which he is. He is undoubtedly a victim and no not even any dream apologist can change my mind otherwise. Tommy, despite being an instigator sometimes, didn't deserve the abuse he received.

But these animatics never shown the fact that c!Wilbur started L'manburg as a shady ploy to exploit people like c!Tommy and vilify c!Dream so he could have power.

And that was easy because Dream and Tommy had wars before. They had spars and pranks and here's the plan to take back my disks and here's the plan to out smart the thieving little child etc etc.

And all of the animatics I watched never mentioned this. Neither did the recaps though. The recaps gave the events flat out, there didn't sound like there was bias, and honestly I don't really know if there was rather than like... a lack of nuance. And it's hard to provide a recap with that much nuance in a short period of time for a youtube video, to be perfectly fair.

However, this creates a perfect formula for entirely rewriting the history of a server. c!Wilbur quite literally fucking succeeded TO A META LEVEL. He slandered and ran smear campaigns against Dream and like he even does that with Sapnap in the beginning. But what's crazy is that it transferred over into the meta! Most of this fandom understands Wilbur as a victim of mental illness, and yeah maybe? He definitely wasn't mentally well by the end of pogtopia, but he never started out with honorable intentions. L'manburg was never a victim, only its citizens. The TommyInnits of the world.

I just think it's like... such an interesting case study. Because this is like... an opinion like shared by at least half of the fandom, but the vilifying of c!Dream is shared by MOST of the fandom I would argue. Which is like even more crazy for me because that was c!Wilbur's goal!!!

LIKE I GO INSANE WHEN I THINK OF THIS BECAUSE HIS REACH IS JUST TOO POWERFUL. HE'S NOT EVEN ENTIRELY REAL, JUST A MANIPULATIVE PERSONA OF SOME BRITISH GUY.

And I mean... maybe people who have watched Wilbur's video on the SMP still maintain this idea that Wilbur wasn't always the bad guy, but honestly... I wouldn't be surprised if their introduction was still an animatic. Like bias is hard to check and I'm not going to lie I could have sworn I watched both Wilbur's AND Tommy's video on the SMP in the beginning and yet I STILL was a ride or die for tragic yet on some level still honorable Wilbur and a resilient Tommy.

Like... upon watching Wilbur's first video... possibly again I was surprised because I thought I did watch it like right before I even started watching the streams and yet I was still so invested in c!Wilbur as this tortured anti-hero.

It took 6 months of... not being in an echo chamber, full of multiple different people of different ages, different stream POVS, and people who joined the fandom at different points in time.

IDK IF THIS WAS EVEN ENTIRELY RELEVANT IT JUST FELT TANGENTIALLY RELEVANT AND THIS WAS SOMETHING I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT FOR A HOT MINUTE AFTER LIKE WATCHING WILBUR'S FIRST VIDEO AGAIN.

TLDR;

SBI CENTRIC ANIMATICS HAD A LASTING AFFECT ON THIS FANDOM AS IT'S HARD TO GO BACK AND ACTUALLY CHECK THE NARRATIVE FOR SOLID FACTS FOR YOUR OWN INTERPRETATION BASED ON THE FACT THAT THIS NARRATIVE SPANS OVER HUNDREDS OF HOURS WORTH OF TWITCH STREAMS.

[theomencometh]

I HAVE NO IDEA WHEN U POSTED IT but i sorta agree with what you’ve said about billy hargrove- i commented on another blog saying that i thought maybe if billy were to have had a younger biological sister (say the same age as max) she probably would have been frustrated with that fact that nobody tried to help billy somehow get the mindflayer out of him like they did with Will- and they responded that they thought if he had one she’d like genuinely hate him because he would probably be abusive to her like max (which is fine everyone is entitled to their opinion) but like i kinda viewed it more in the sense that she would have been part of some of his fondest memories- and for some of his darkest, which she would have been fairly young for and thus have a hard time even understanding what was happening (such as her mom not coming back or Neil being abusive to their mom) and so billy might have at least a little brotherly like instinct or like feel at least a little protective bc i don’t think he’d like or enjoy seeing a younger sister abused by Neil- now he would definitely still have a shitty attitude and would most likely show affection in a very different way than most- but i kinda pictured it in a way that if would affect his character at least a little instead of him just being a truly terrible person to the very core- thoughts? LOL sorry for this whole essay 😭😭

but like you said billy didn’t really have anyone- people are so quick to say that Jonathan had an abusive dad but didn’t turn out like billy- but jonathan had joyce!! i am not a billy apologist i swear- but billy’s only support (his mom) left him behind with an abusive man and he had no one to support him (now this doesn’t excuse his actions but like he was the way he was because of this)

I think the way that a relationship between Billy and a younger biological sister develops has everything to do with how Neil (and their mom) treats her.

With Max, Billy mirrors the only other dynamic in the house at the time: his father's abuse towards him. He's harsh and generally unpleasant, gets physical with her once (grabbing her wrist in the car), because that's what he knows. Max, to our knowledge, is never on the receiving end of Neil's abuse. I'm sure that prompts a lot of complicated jealousy in Billy that she can get away with things that he can't, which informs how he treats her. Max is also Billy's responsibility. That's how it's described by Neil, even though she's 13 and genuinely doesn't need a full-time babysitter (nor does she want one). He is required to drive her where she wants and is not allowed to leave her alone, and he gets punished for it when he does. That being said, he has that scene in the car in season 2 where he says that, like it or not, they're siblings now and they're stuck together, and i think that the way the sibling dynamic plays out is very mixed up in his mind. Although he carries a lot of resentment towards her, he asks her why she's upset and I do think part of him cares about her well-being a little.

That being said, Max did also care about him. During season 3, she constantly hopes that Billy isn't the mindflayer, and she and El investigate because Max is worried about him. The point of locking him in the sauna was to try to get the mindflayer out of him, and Max constantly tries to appeal to him as Billy-her-brother rather than the monster, then sobs over his body. Regardless of her dark thoughts in season 4, season 3 Max had turned some sort of corner with Billy and didn't actually want him dead, and it's apparent in every scene they have together (and her last scene where she's sitting in his room after his death).

Would this dynamic be different if, instead of a step-sister, Billy had a biological sister who was part of the family since the beginning? I think it depends. If Neil was only abusive to Billy and their mother, not the sister, I think Billy's resentment over that could grow stronger a lot sooner, turning him into more of a monster to her. With Max, he can justify Neil not abusing her while still abusing him with Max being an outsider and Susan's daughter rather than Neil's, but those excuses wouldn't be possible with a biological sister. It also depends on how the abuse plays out in front of the sister. Is it something that she's aware of as "just a part of the family dynamic" since the beginning? Is it kept a secret from her while she's little? How does she react to Billy (and how does Billy react to her) after she knows? All of these things could influence their dynamic.

If Neil abused her too, however, that would absolutely bond them together and they both would die for each other. In that instance, once their mom left, they would be all that each other has, and they would both become probably the one semi-positive aspect of their home lives. When Billy gets controlled by the mindflayer, she would try everything possible to get it out of him, because the monster is supposed to be their dad, not a supernatural creature from an alternate dimension.

Jonathan and Billy's situations aren't really comparable in my opinion, because you're right! He had Joyce!!! the #1 mom!!! I'm not sure when Lonnie left the picture, but the big difference is that Jonathan always had a loving mother, and his abusive dad left. Billy has always had an abusive dad, and his loving mother left. That's a very different dynamic. Jonathan also had Will, his very sweet, very sensitive younger brother who he wanted to love and protect. In that instance, they were in it together. With Max and Billy, they're treated differently and in two different situations, so it makes sense that there would be contention between them.

billy is not a good person. but, as i said in the original post, i find it very interesting that so many people think he is irredeemable when there's a lot of textual evidence that his negative environment has shaped him to be this way, and getting him love and support could have easily led to a redemption arc

[mitchmarnier]

you know we have to ask. stranger things

we did know this would be evitable lol

my favorite female character: el hopper, but really every single main female character is amazing and i love them all.

my favorite male character: dustin henderson, but steve lucas and will are all strong contenders.

my favorite book/season/etc: SEASON TWO. season two supremacy, like i'm sorry babes but you all lack so much taste if you hate season two.

my favorite episode (if its a tv show): season two episode eight, or season three episode eight *minus the b*lly apologist propaganda* or the always classic season one episode six.

my favorite cast member: i wouldn't really say i have a favourite cast members as i don't really follow any of the cast content too closely but i suppose joe keery or finn wolfhard have the filmography outside of st that i consume the most.

my favorite ship: lucas and max! nobody compares.

a character I’d die defending: mike wheeler. yes imagine the clown makeup, i get it. 

a character I just can’t sympathize with: it seems like too cheap to say b*lly h*rgrove, so i'll just say hopper (to an extent)

a character I grew to love: max. i was pretty indifferent to her after her first season and there were a lot of aspects of her in season 3 that didn't particularly enjoy but season four was a full game changer

my anti otp: i'm not particularly fond of most of the primary focus ships in this show tbqh but the only ships i really could say i can't stand are romantic mikel or gross ships like h*rringrove.

send me a fandom!

[tangledbea]

someone pointed out that the r/ship between cass and rapunzel has more chemistry than rapunzel and flynn, which I lightly agree with. What I feel the writers have done with Rapunzel and Eugene's r/ship, is on a scale of somewhat perfect to too perfect. I know there are flaws inbetween like Rapunzel snapping at him, but all through it's like she's the one who's more emotionally expressive than him? this has made him some kind of "Rapunzel apologist" and he rarely calls her out on her issues 1/3

this causes some king of inbalance in their friendship. He’s sentimental with her like 98% of the time, this makes me wonder, does he think that Rapunzel never does anything wrong? Has Rapunzel ever done anything that he disagrees with? He just looks ok with what she does almost all the heckin’ time lol. This entire season Rapunzel has been the one to show us the side of her we never saw in the movie, and I apreciate that, in fact I LOVE that she’s flawed. But what about Eugene? What’s his take?

I waited a long time to get a third part, because the first ask said 1/3, but after a while, I figured that was a typo.

That being said, here we go…

I’m honestly not sure what you mean about Eugene being a Rapunzel apologist. He doesn’t defend her actions to other people, he just accepts them within her and knows that she will learn by her own mistakes. Rapunzel is not the type to let people saying she’s wrong stop her. And, as you may recall in “Under Raps,” he told her multiple times that she needed to back off and get out of Cassandra’s face. Just because he doesn’t do so angrily or with annoyance doesn’t mean he approves.

Eugene seems to understand better than anyone else (besides Pascal) what Rapunzel went through growing up in the tower. After all, he’s the only other person (among the heroes other than Max’s extremely brief meeting) who’s ever met Gothel, and he faced her wrath. He saw Rapunzel bound and gagged and being dragged off. What Eugene is doing is being gentle with Rapunzel. He knows she’s lived through trauma, and he loves her so much that he wants to protect her feelings. In “Rapunzel’s Enemy,” when Cassandra bluntly told Rapunzel that Uncle Monty hates her, Eugene’s reaction was, “Way to sugarcoat it, Cass.” Not to mention, he wants Rapunzel to feel safe with him. He has never, ever cared for anyone the way he cares for her, and he doesn’t want her to be afraid to open up to him.

Rapunzel has always been more emotional that Eugene, even in the movie. And Cassandra being blunt with her and making her angry isn’t the same as “[having] more chemistry.” It just means the characters act differently with one another, based on having different relationships. This is a thing that happens in real life, let alone in writing, and its very realistic that each of them show different parts of themselves to different people.