#Homer's iliad
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Guess who’s my favorite greek hero.
My Iliad book 5 fanart. He goes stabby stab on immortal gods, gotta love the guy for that.
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Did Odysseus have horses or not? (An Iliad and Odyssey Analysis)
This little thing came from a post made by @wolfythewitch and my response in regards to some Cephallenian horses that can still be found to Kephallonia to this day: see here So here is a more extensive analysis on the question of horses and Ithaca or the kingdom of the Cephallenians in general
So as we know from antiquity, horses are known to be a sign of nobility, proof of status and of course a valuable animal for work such as farming or war. Horses play a very important role in the homeric poems with of course the most infamous example of all the Trojan Horse that was the symbol of Troy and became its destruction. Many heroes have had the pseudonym "tamer of horses" including Diomedes and Hector.
It seems also that horses are linked most to some of the richest and most powerful kingdoms are shown to have beautiful or good horses. For example except for Troy that as also linked to god Poseidon and thus to the sumbol of Horse, we also see Argos be famous for the horses (and king Diomedes earning his name from it) or even Sparta (Menelaus providing horses to Telemachus which are praised) and Pylos when Nestor also provides Telemachus and Peisistratus with horses.
But what about Ithaca?
As mentioned above and as others mentioned before me, it seems that Ithaca, the tiny rugged place Odysseus speaks about does not seem to have terrains that are capable of hosting horses like wide plains or wide and smooth roads where horses can trot freely or graze. The existence of animals for work as well seems to be touched in post-homeric sources such as Hyginus Fabulae where we see the infamous story of Odysseus pretending madness. He ties to his plow a donkey and a cow instead. Both of the animals are more frequent for plowing fields or carrying loads especially donkeys and mules that are still famous in Greece and greek islands and they are known for being capable of marching across the wild terrains and uphill paths.
Ironically, or not so much, Ithaca seems to have a lack of horses according to Telemachus himself for when Menelaus offers him parting gifts, including horses, Telemachus replies to him thus:
However the horses I shall not take with me to Ithaca but I shall leave them to you, with your permission (lit: to your glory): for you are a king of wide fields, rich in clove and galingale and plenty of wheat that is dicocum and white. However in Ithaca there are neither wide roads nor grassy meadows; place that is fit for goats to walk and graze on rather than horses. For no island that leans in the salt (here: sea) is fit for riding and grazing horses: Ithaca least of all.
(Translation by me)
So here Telemachus seems to imply that not only most of silands have unfriendly terrain for horses but also that Ithaca is "least of all". Now there are a couple of things here that are toned out:
Ithaca is described as a ragged place by Odysseus as well when he speaks on his homeland to the Phaeaces and even nowadays it is indeed true that Ithaca has more mountain plains than wide fields given how small the island is as well and in general Greece is over 80% mountains anyways.
Homer makes Telemachus speak on how Ithaca is the "least of all" suitable for horses. Probably that is a small hyperbole. For starters maybe one could speak on "least of all" in the islands of the Ionian sea instead, which Telemachus probably is familiar with because islands in the Aegean sea are much dryer and uphill than the islands on the Ionian sea so it is probably a hyperbole used by Homer to show how unsuitable Ithaca is for riding horses or comparing them to islands of the Ionian sea instead (because see for example an image of Folegandros which has even less greenery for horses to feed on:
However the image that Ithaca is probably boarderline hostile for horses and riding is also linked to the fact on how Ithaca is often perceived as a land rich in certain products such as olives or fruit trees (due to the mild climate) but a generally poorer island and kingdom compared to others like Mycenae, Argos or Sparta. When Telemachus visits Sparta is is mesmerized by her beauty and richness.
Even if we do have examples in Ithaca that show that Ithaca is not a weak or penniless kingdom (Penelope sits on a chair with ivory which is an exotic material very hard to find or Odysseus leaves for war wearing a crimson woolen mantle that is decorated with a golden brooch. Both gold and the color crimson were extremely valuable. For example crimson pigmentation is found only at the shells that come from the east so it would require good economy to obtain) Ithaca is by general idea a poorer and less powerful kingdom than the rest (Odysseus is one of the kings that brings the least amount of ships with him at the number of 12 and around 603 men in total including himself)
The absense of horses or the hint that Ithaca does not breed horses at all, according to some readings of the passage, is also linked to the lack of powerful status for the kingdom. The kingdom itself is not one of the great powerful kingdoms of Greece like his peers from Mycenae or Argos and the fact that a status symbol like Horses is absent is rather interesting way to show that. In fact Ithaca seems to gain fame by its people rather than its political power.
(See how Odysseus calls the island κουροτρόφο aka "nurturer of men". Odysseus implies that the importance of his kingdom is not to the status symbols but to its people and their braveness)
But can we really talk on complete absence of horses in Odysseus's life?
Cephallonia's Semi-wild Horses:
As I mentioned to the post I reblogged under @wolfythewitch post we do seem to have a breed of horses to the area. The horses are being left to roam about according to an ancient custom because Cephallonia has no much space to keep them so the farmers do tame them but leave them roam free to the plains and now they are part of the national park of Aenus mountain:
These horses have been adapted to ride perfectly well to the rough rocky terrains of the mountain. Now of course the breed was probably imported from the mainland (most likely from Pindos mountains). Cephallonia has also been suggested as the location of the homeric Ithaca (and the giver of name of his kingdom) due to the fact that it deprives from homeric description that Cephallonia was "the most far western island" or, as I would probably be willing to believe, that maybe the land of modern Ithaca and Cephallonia were connected by land at that time (take that hypothesis with a grain of salt but I think it is highly possible) other locations suggested were even Lefkas for they discovered Mycenaean remains there
It is of course unclear when these horses enter the terrain. Itis possible that the horses arrive way after the bronze age that Odysseus ellegedly lived or even after Homer's time even, if Homer doesn't mention them or mentions that horses are not possible to grow in Ithaca.
It could also be, though, that homer completely dispatches horses from Ithaca to that degree again to point out the difference of status between Ithaca and Sparta. And, another totally wild guess, is also interesting how the animal symbol of Poseidon is absent from the island of Ithaca to the poem that speaks about the hubris of Odysseus against Poseidon and the god's wrath against him! Food for thought! XD
No horses in Ithaca doesn't necessarily mean Cephallinians had no horses at all:
Another thing that people often forget is that Odysseus was not king of Ithaca only. The kingdom of Cephallenians was a kingdom that spread over several islands AND part of the mainland where modern day Aitoloakarnania is:
The kingdom is not limited to the island of Ithaca only. Acarnania is also a wide area. Horses can possibly be bred there and also be providing the islands if needed. It is interesting because Odysseus is not only in posession of a chariot in the Iliad but he also seems perfectly capable of riding horses. In the Iliad for example both he and Diomedes steal the Thracian Horses in rhapsody 10:
So she spoke and he (Diomedes) recognized the goddess's voice and swiftly jumped on the horses: Odysseus smote them with his bow and they trotted towards the fast ships of the Achaeans
(Translation by me)
Interestingly Homer uses the 3rd singular of the verb: ἐπεβήσετο (he rode) but then proceeds using the 3rd plural ἐπέτοντο (they flew/rode away). So what could it be? Could it be perhaps that Odysseus jumped on the horse behind Diomedes and smote it with his bow to start trotting away? In that case we could speak indeed on the fact that clearly Diomedes was a better rider than Odysseus given that he is more familiar with horses. However if both of them ride away that means that Odysseus is not completely oblivious of horses he just doesn't seem to be so capable with them indeed. In fact the first is rather confirmed at the passage that follows soon after:
Then Odysseus beloved to Zeus restrained the quick horses, while the son of Tydeus jumped on the ground, placing the bloody spoils to the hands of Odysseus and once more he rode the horses; hitting them with a whip and nothing stopped them from flying to the hollow ships, as they so much wished to be.
(Translation by me)
So in this scene Diomedes seems to be the protagonist, being more knowledgable on horses (he is the one who rides first and trots) while Odysseus plays a more auxiliary role (steeds and holds the horses or holds the spoils in hand) but he doesnt seem completely oblivious to the exietence or treatment of horses. He both knows how to restrain and steer them but he is also in posession of a chariot with which he fights in the Iliad and covers the retreat of Diomedes and later that same chariot comes to pick him up from the battle (see rhapsody 11).
Conclusions:
So Homer seems to be sticking to the notion that horses are not widedly used in Ithaca or the rest of the kingdom due to its rough terrain. Not only does Telemachus speak of it but we also see the image in Iliad where Odysseus is clearly not as capable rider as Diomedes given how while they trot away. Of course needs to be noted how the horses are often depicted unbriddled and without a saddle in the artwork so it is also interesting to think that Odysseus wouldn't be able to ride without equipment while Diomedes who is more familiar with horses he has no problem.
Odysseus seems to stick more to chariots than horse riding which also indicates that he is not familiar with horse riding to that extent or that he is not particularly confident in it, however he seems capable of doing it.
The existence of the horse breed in Cephallonia as well as the fact that the kingdom also involves the mainland could indicate that horses were not unknown to the Cephallenians just not widedly used. Odysseus speaks many times on horses and their beauty and strength so he is familiar with them and he can judge (bet he also learnt a bunch from his fellow kings like Diomedes and the idea of Diomedes showing Odysseus even more stuff about horses sounds a cute image doesn't it!?) but from the incidents such as the one from the Iliad, suggest that he is not confident rider.
His knowledge seems less extensive compared to his knowledge on other stuff such as sheep and goats (he praises the flock of Polyphemus for example, elemet that I also used to my retelling/one-shot fic "Escape from Cyclops Island: Hubris") or stars and navigation so indeed even if he does have knowledge on riding or chariots he is not very confident in it.
So I tend to be somewhere in the middle; I don't believe that the Cephallinians had no horses at all or that they had no idea on horses (Telemachus himself has some knowledge after all since he mentions immediately to Menelaus that his gift would be unsuitable for his land) it is just that if they can host horses it is just some very sturdy and adaptable ones like the ones used at mountain passages and even those were not widedly used. They would probably have more mules or donkeys for transportation like it happens to mountain terrains and use more cattle as farming animals. The use of horses must have been very scarce to the point of providing them general knowledge but not as widedly used as in other places
But what do you guys think? Let me know!
#katerinaaqu analyzes#greek mythology#odysseus#tagamemnon#the odyssey#odyssey#the iliad#homeric poems#diomedes#odysseus and diomedes#ancient greek horses#horses in ancient greek mythology#horses#diomedes and odysseus#diomedes of argos#odysseus of ithaca#menelaus#telemachus#homer odyssey#homer iliad#homeric epics#iliad#homer's odyssey#homer's iliad#ithaca#cephallonia#greek islands
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odysseus and telemachus.
father and son.
they’re going to kill me some day
(thx to @ikea09 for the idea :])
#and creds to gigi for telemachus’ design!!#wow they are#precious#i love them#they mean so much to me#ideal father-son relationship#ody and telemachus after murdering 108 men (they just met): 😝😝#iliad odysseus#odysseus#epic the musical odysseus#the odyssey#ody#telemachus#epic the musical#odyssey#ithaca#the iliad#homer's iliad#trojan war#tagamemnon#the trojan war#homer#telemachus epic the musical#telemachus of ithaca#odypen#odysseus and telemachus#epic the musical ocean saga#epic the thunder saga#epic the underworld saga#epic the troy saga
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That scene still makes me laugh so hard
…The son of Peleus was furious, and his heart within his shaggy breast was divided whether to draw his sword, push the others aside, and kill the son of Atreus, or to restrain himself and check his anger. While he was thus in two minds, and was drawing his mighty sword from its scabbard, Minerva came down from heaven (for Juno had sent her in the love she bore to them both), and seized the son of Peleus by his yellow hair, visible to him alone, for of the others no man could see her. Achilles turned in amaze, and by the fire that flashed from her eyes at once knew that she was Minerva. "Why are you here," said he, "daughter of aegis-bearing Jove? To see the pride of Agamemnon, son of Atreus? Let me tell you- and it shall surely be- he shall pay for this insolence with his life."
And Minerva said, "I come from heaven, if you will hear me, to bid you stay your anger. Juno has sent me, who cares for both of you alike. Cease, then, this brawling, and do not draw your sword; rail at him if you will, and your railing will not be vain, for I tell you- and it shall surely be- that you shall hereafter receive gifts three times as splendid by reason of this present insult. Hold, therefore, and obey."..
#the iliad#iliad achilles#homer's iliad#homer iliad#greek mythology#greek gods#ancient greek#achilles#hades achilles#athena greek mythology#greek epic#tagamemnon#trojan war#the trojan war
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Uhhh so I made Menelaus/Helen Iliad Swap AU-
Or as I like to call it Malewife Menelaus AU
Basically everything is the same but Paris kidnaps Menelaus instead of Helen and Helen goes to war to get her husband back!
Nobody dies in the end and they all end up in poly relationship
#iliad au#greek mythology#the iliad#iliad#homer's iliad#menelaus#helen of sparta#helen of troy#paris of troy#helen x menelaus#paris x menelaus#fanart#my art#DONT ASK ME HOW I CAME UP WITH THIS IT JUST APPEARED IN MY BRAIN#it was supposed to be a joke but i dont hink its a joke anymore-#malewife menelaus au#tagamemnon
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People who hiperfixate on Epic of Gilgamesh, Iliad/Oddysey and The Bible are actually the coolest mfs out there. Like yess pleasee draw more Gilgamesh x Enkidu fanart, write more Achilles angst, call Jesus of Nazareth your babygirl, nothing makes me happier.
#i don't mean it in a spiteful “yeah fandomise mytholigical/relious figures so i can laugh haha >:)�� kind of way#i genuinely love this#its shows how art we create is immortal how it can move any generation#like the fact that most of the people in the bible fandom are atheist is just so cool#heck i'm atheist and im interested in it#i love you ancient art#bible fandom#the iliad#homer's iliad#homer's odyssey#epic of gilgamesh
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Rereading the iliad bc the epic the musical brainrot is real (and also bc the iliad is a banger)
#can you guess who my favorite character is lol#diomedes#i also like hector but i didn't have any memes for him off the top of my head#odysseus and diomedes have such a fun friendship#they're homies fr#odysseus#the iliad#literature memes#homeric epics#homer#homer's iliad#agamemnon#achilles#tagamemnon#glaucus#priam#classic lit#classic literature#book memes
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#I'm back on my bullshit :3
#greek mythology#the iliad#homer#odysseus#the odyssey#neoptolemus#sarpedon#tsoa thetis#helen of troy#hector of troy#astyanax#priam#menelaus#patroclus#briseis#achilles#greek mythology memes#sappho#trojan war#the epic cycle#epic poetry#song of achilles#iliad meme#homer's iliad
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In other news:
#Pays to be the gods favorite#Also not someone who opens the damn bag#epic: the musical#epic the musical#epic the thunder saga#epic the ocean saga#epic the cyclops saga#epic the troy saga#epic the underworld saga#epic the circe saga#odysseus#the odyssey#homer's odyssey#greek mythology#the iliad#homer's iliad#greek heroes#the underworld saga#epic: the cyclops saga#epic: the troy saga#epic: the thunder saga#epic: the underworld saga#epic: the circe saga#epic: the ocean saga#greek mythos#greek myth#greek gods#ancient greek#greek goddess#greek tumblr
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"Ugh classics are so boring" Classics:
Iliad, book II, vv. 257-264
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women want me for my deceitful nature and fine thighs
#mine#shitpost#the iliad#the odyssey#homer's iliad#homer's odyssey#odysseus#ulysses#penelope#circe#calypso#babygirl tag
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I started this during the livestream the other day! Poseidon is my favorite antagonist in the musical (mainly bc of the voice acting) so I was excited to listen to the Vengeance saga
#epic the musical#epic the vengeance saga#odysseus#Poseidon#epic the ocean saga#odysseus epic#the odyssey#homer's iliad#homers odyssey#my art#tumblr don’t ruin quality PLS
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Odysseus's fixation upon his son could possibly be explained by the timeline.
A small thing that needs to be said is that according to Homer Odysseus left Telemachus a "newborn" (or at least so Menelaus says in the Odyssey). Interestingly is hard to tell how long Odysseus and Penelope have been married before they had Telemachus because the time line is not cut and clear.
It seems like their marriage took place during the oath of Tyndareus period when Odysseus was at Sparta as a suitor to Helen. From the Oath till Helen's infidelity or abduction or forced seduction by Aphrodite we see there were around 10 years of difference (quite frankly according to some accounts Helen mentions she was 20 years in Troy). That means that he and Penelope were potentially married at least a decade (which makes sense given that he made a wedding bed for her from scratch making it seem that their palace was also being rebuilt at that time)
But if Telemachus was newborn or almost newborn (like let's say about 1 year old tops) that means that Odysseus and Penelope were childless for almost a decade. Either that means they were having some issues aka Odysseus running errands in the kingdom or that they were trying very hard to have children and somehow they couldn't
Do you imagine what this means?
Odysseus potentially had to leave behind a son he wished for for almost a decade full and not to mention that Palamedes nearly killed him, that very son that he potentially tried so hard for and wished for so much!
Hell no wonder he names himself "Father of Telemachus" and quite frankly one can understand why he would hold a grudge against Palamedes (be it Higenius you follow where he frames him or be it Pausanias who says he drowned him) one can imagine why his brain would snap like that! If this hypothesis is correct that is.
#katerinaaqu analyzes#odysseus#greek mythology#the odyssey#tagamemnon#odyssey#the iliad#homer's iliad#homer's odyssey#homer odysseus#homeric poems#homer odyssey#homeric epics#homer iliad#homer#palamedes#odypen#odysseus and penelope#telemachus#odysseus and telemachus#odysseus x penelope#odysseus father to telemachus#ancient greek mythology#epic cycle#odysseus of ithaca#penelope x odysseus#penelope#higenius#pausanias#homer's odysseus
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devotional art for apollo ☀️
#apollo#apollon#paganism#paganblr#pagan#hellenic deities#hellenic polytheism#hellenic pagan#hellenism#diety worship#art#devotional art#artist#the iliad#homer's iliad
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could you draw some Patrochilles?
HI YES OFC !!
I miss drawing them its been a while oh my god <3333
#I MISSED THEM UGH#iliad#the iliad#homer's iliad#iliad achilles#achilles#iliad patroclus#patroclus#patrochilles#achicleos#patroclus x achilles#greek mythology#starryseas sketches
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*giggles and bites your arm off affectionately*
#iliad#the iliad#greek mythology#homer's iliad#achilles#patroclus#achilles and patroclus#achilles x patroclus#greek mythology fanart#fanart#sketch#my art#artists on tumblr
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