#pausanias

[katerinaaqu]

Odysseus's fixation upon his son could possibly be explained by the timeline.

A small thing that needs to be said is that according to Homer Odysseus left Telemachus a "newborn" (or at least so Menelaus says in the Odyssey). Interestingly is hard to tell how long Odysseus and Penelope have been married before they had Telemachus because the time line is not cut and clear.

It seems like their marriage took place during the oath of Tyndareus period when Odysseus was at Sparta as a suitor to Helen. From the Oath till Helen's infidelity or abduction or forced seduction by Aphrodite we see there were around 10 years of difference (quite frankly according to some accounts Helen mentions she was 20 years in Troy). That means that he and Penelope were potentially married at least a decade (which makes sense given that he made a wedding bed for her from scratch making it seem that their palace was also being rebuilt at that time)

But if Telemachus was newborn or almost newborn (like let's say about 1 year old tops) that means that Odysseus and Penelope were childless for almost a decade. Either that means they were having some issues aka Odysseus running errands in the kingdom or that they were trying very hard to have children and somehow they couldn't

Do you imagine what this means?

Odysseus potentially had to leave behind a son he wished for for almost a decade full and not to mention that Palamedes nearly killed him, that very son that he potentially tried so hard for and wished for so much!

Hell no wonder he names himself "Father of Telemachus" and quite frankly one can understand why he would hold a grudge against Palamedes (be it Higenius you follow where he frames him or be it Pausanias who says he drowned him) one can imagine why his brain would snap like that! If this hypothesis is correct that is.

[cescalovestowrite]

In my opinion we don't focus enough on this passage told by Pausanias. This is HUGE!Odysseus allows Penelope to choose who she prefers to follow, with the distinct possibility that Penelope will choose her father. In fact, in the "son-in-law's marriage" (i.e. the one in which the spouses move to the bride's father's house) the woman's position is much stronger than in the "daughter-in-law's marriage". By following Odysseus, Penelope chooses to abandon her family and will be asked to get used to a series of new habits, customs, even a different dialect.

So basically Odysseus makes a choice we wouldn't expect, Penelope does the same. Maybe it's just my impression, but it seems to me that one of the many things they have in common is doing things that were a little strange for the time. I won't go into this further, but there are many aspects of Odysseus to discuss in these terms, perhaps I will make a dedicated post later.

The veil is, we could say, the symbol that separates Penelope's life as a maiden from her life as wife of Odysseus.

I had also read an interesting comment about Penelope's use of the veil by an Italian scholar, which reads as follows: "Like her husband Odysseus once used to keep his eyes lowered, because he was thinking, and then his gaze would escape everyone; so Penelope, when she went down into the great room, lifted her peplos on the cheeks, so that the minimum of her expression could be seen".

Food for thought.

[majestativa]

She was assassinated by night. Perseus, admiring her beauty even in death, cut off her head and carried it to show the Greeks.

— Pausanias, The Medusa Reader, transl by W. H. S. Jones, (2013)

[conformi]

Ancient Theatre, Epidaurus, Greece, 4th century BC VS Giorgio Morandi, Shell and other objects, 1948

[mary-maud]

The beginning of the Description of Greece, by Pausanias

[dreaminginthedeepsouth]

For día de muertos 2: "Know Thyself". The ancient Greek maxim "know thyself" or "gnothi seauton" (Greek: γνῶθι σεαυτόν), is one of the Delphic maxims and was inscribed in the pronaos (forecourt) of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi according to the Greek writer Pausanias (10.24.1). The aphorism came from Luxor in Ancient Egypt.

[Robert Scott Horton]

* * * *

You've heard that message from the source of whatever path you follow, very likely. This too shall pass. Even if it's hot in your heart at the moment, or gnawing at your brain like a fiery little animal. [candace] _____

It Passes Away What is the purpose of reacting to something when it is changing so quickly? What is the purpose of reacting with craving or clinging? It passes away. Or hatred: it passes away. —S.N. Goenka, "Superscience"

[alive on all channels]

[hexjulia]

I love how Pausanias makes the Gauls sound mythical when he lived in a time when Gauls were part of the empire

"The Gauls live in the remotest region of Europe, on the coast of an enormous tidal sea which no ship can cross; it has sea monsters in it nothing like the other monsters of the sea. Across that country runs the river Eridanos, where people believe the daughters of the Sun are lamenting the tragedy of their brother Phaiton."

Pausanias those are your fellow subjects you live in the Roman empire what Are you talking about

[sarafangirlart]

Out of all of Perseus’s 9 children only two weren’t directly stated to also be children of Andromeda, but no other mother is mentioned either. It could just be bc very few sources talk about them.

Autochthe’s existence is only mentioned by one author, Tzetzes (a Byzantine and therefore VERY late source) in a couple of his writings. She is mentioned as the daughter of Perseus, no mother mentioned. She’s also the wife of Aegeus (Theseus’s father) and had several unnamed daughters by him. Considering that none of the writings referencing her center Autochthe but rather the genealogy of the figures around her, it isn’t unlikely she was Andromeda’s daughter and that we just don’t have any surviving source directly stating her as such. But she could just be a “medieval OC” like Merros who I don’t really consider legitimate bc he’s likely just misspelled Mestor, I want Andromeda to have more than one daughter ok? Let me keep her.

Cynurus’s existence is mentioned exactly once, ONCE, in Pausanias Description of Greece (a more legit source than Tzetzes), where he led colonists from Argos to Cynuria. That’s it. It’s likely he’s also Andromeda’s son and it’s just that no source explicitly stated so survives.

Idk why I felt the need to talk about this, it’s just that I (as well as y’all) were always impressed by Perseus being one of the few ancient heroes to never cheat, but I wanted to be extra sure so I looked it up instead of just passing it around without thinking.

[parafrazerofhistory]

Serpent Herbalists

“Tylon or Tylus [of Lydia] was a son of Earth. One day as he was walking on the banks of the Hermus a serpent stung and killed him. His distressed sister Moire had recourse to a giant named Damasen, who attacked and slew the serpent. But the serpent's mate culled a herb, ‘the flower of Zeus,’ in the woods, and bringing it in her mouth put it to the lips of the dead serpent, which immediately revived. In her turn Moire took the hint and restored her brother Tylon to life by touching him with the same plant. A similar incident occurs in many folk-tales. Serpents are often credited with a knowledge of life-giving plants.”**

—J. G. Frazer, Adonis, Attis, Osiris, part 1 (The Golden Bough, vol. V, 1914, p. 186)

**Frazer’s Footnote: “Thus Glaucus, son of Minos, was restored to life by the seer Polyidus, who learned the trick from a serpent. See Apollodorus, Bibliotheca, iii. 3. I. For references to other tales of the same sort see my note on Pausanias, ii. 10. 3 (vol. iii. pp. 65 sq.). The serpent's acquaintance with the tree of life in the garden of Eden perhaps belongs to the same cycle of stories” (p. 186).

Eve taking medical advice from the Serpent in the Garden—"An apple a day keeps the doctor away" (Eva met slang en appel en liggende leeuw, by Hans Sebald Beham [1523]).

(Source: Rijksmuseum, CC0, via Wikimedia Commons)

[katerinaaqu]

Question who is your favorite character in Greek mythology?

Like in general? Including epics and tragedies and myths etc?

Odysseus. Straight out

I find myself relate to him in so many ways and his torments and trips and mistakes always speak to me differently; the perfect combination of someone you might consider "prodigy" but shaped and carved by hard work and life, a complicated personality that even the ancient Greeks had trouble placing.

Some like Homer or even partially Sophocles and Statius named him their hero; complicated and controversial and so human. Others like Hesiod named him almost an anti-hero. Eurypedes or the Romans pictured him almost a villain.

Warrior or a sneaky coward? Noble or a man that is thirsty for the love of the crowd no matter the price? A rape victim or a cheater?

It gets me so intrigued that not even the ancient sources could handle him and so many different writers pictured him in a negative light while writers like Homer or Statius picture him as of noble heart but controversial nature and ways. Writers like Conon in August Augustean times wrote Odysseus capable of stabbing at the back the very man that admired him and respected him to gain fame while Homer writes him as a man who would throw himself on the sword to make sure his men would come back alive. Hyginus makes him a planning and scheming man who would frame an innocent for treason and set an elaborate plan to do it while Pausanias mentions a crime of passion or at least not as planned and thorough as Hyginus mentions etc.

So yeah I believe that Odysseus is my favorite especially as presented by Homer; a man full of contradictions. He is the man that would jump in front of a 6 headed immortal dragon for his men but the same man conquered a city by the night against all ethics to finish a war. The same man that refused to steal from a cave that belonged obviously to a monstrous creature and decided to give them the element of doubt was the same man that conquered the city of Ismarus, killing the men and enslaving the women and taking the resources from it. The same man that jumped in the battle to save Diomedes against all personal safety was the same man that was holding his army back till the right and safest moment to fight. The same man who had no problem facing the behemoth of a man Ajax, called his name almost for last when he volunteered to face Hector so that he would have as fewer possibilities be chosen as possible. The same man who killed 108 young vigorous men in his own home was the same who was embracing and kissing his son his wife and his loyal slaves. A strong and ruthless king but also a king that rules like a father to his people.

And also most importantly; a man that could be anyone of us. He stayed alive and survived by seer will at times. No demigod or superhero. He was a man like everyone of us; showing to generations to come the strength of mind and willpower.

I just love Odysseus!

[cescalovestowrite]

Penelope between Ulysses and her father Icarius

Pencil drawing by Louis Gauffier, Uffizzi, Florence

Go to this post right here if you want to know exactly what's happening in the painting💚

[jeannereames]

You already wrote it like twice lol so I apologize for bringing it up again… but if you were to rewrite the final scene of Rise once more but from Philippos’s POV… what would you envision his final thoughts to have been when he’s killed? Or, I'm not sure if he would have even been capable of having any by that point, but, for imagination's sake really :)

Below are my thoughts about Philippos’s mindset at the time.

Before I get to that, for anyone wondering what the asker is talking about, my website for Dancing with the Lion has several “out-takes” (scenes cut from the novels), plus a few scenes (and one short story) that take place in the c. 10 months between book 1 and book 2.

Among these is a rewrite of Rise's last scene, originally done in Alexandros’s head, seen from Hephaistion’s POV. (Click image)

(Fair warning, and it probably goes without saying, but while the first set can be read after finishing Becoming, the second set should wait until you’ve finished Rise, as they naturally contain spoilers.)

So, first, at the parade’s start, Philippos would still be irked with Alexandros after their quarrel over (ironically) Pausanias. He said they’d continue the discussion later, after telling Alexandros his choices were about managing difficult personalities, especially when they’re about to be away from Macedon for some years.

Ergo, at the start of the parade, he would’ve been thinking about how to get through to his idealistic child that sometimes full justice must take a back seat to avoiding interminable blood feuds. He’d probably also have been hoping he’d live until Alexandros was more mature. He’d not be thinking assassination, of course. They’re about to embark on a serious military campaign to Persia, and Macedonian kings often died with their boots on. He’s in his mid/late 40s, his leg is lame and he’s not as fast as he used to be. He could fall in battle.

This isn’t overly morbid. These are pretty normal thoughts (ime) for parents of teens, and Alexandros is still, effectively, a teen, even if he just turned 20. You just hope the inevitable blunders of adolescence are none so bad they die before the neurons in their frontal cortexes finish fusing. Not that the Greeks understood adolescent neurology, but they certainly understood teenaged hotheadedness. And Alexandros (and the real Alexander) were more hotheaded than most. After all, how many times did his own bravery almost get him killed?

So that would’ve been on Philippos’s mind in the immediate aftermath of their quarrel, but it wouldn’t be the first time—I’m sure it was a well-worn grove of worry—so he’d have kicked it off once the parade started. After that, right up until the moment he was stabbed, he was having a great morning. It was truly his triumph. That’s the irony of his death … and why Pausanias picked that event.

Historically speaking, it seems he was stabbed in the back, or perhaps from the side, so I doubt he saw it coming—or who stabbed him. Now, we get into a bit of speculation and back to my fictional take. I wrote it so that he died almost immediately. Pausanias was a soldier, and even with a cloak in the way, he could find the heart fairly accurately, I think. (Whether this was true in history, we don’t actually know. The historical Philip may have taken a few minutes to die if Pausanias was off target by an inch or two.)

In any case, the heart is delicate. A direct wound by arrow, sword, spear, knife, bullet is almost always fatal without immediate medical intervention, due to extreme bleeding into the chest cavity. Ergo, shock takes over in under half a minute, more like 15-20 seconds.

In the novel, in those, let’s say, 20 seconds, Philippos was able to call his son’s name, and would have seen Alexandros turn and call him Pappa, reaching for him. The surprise on his son’s face would tell Philippos he wasn’t involved. Philippos would know he was a dead man, so I think it would matter to him that Alexandros wasn’t behind it.

I don’t say in the novel, but Pausanias could have whispered something in his ear at the end. I describe him as right behind the king, one hand on his elbow. Alexandros thinks he’s helping to hold his father up (not realizing the other hand had the knife). And, again, as a soldier, Pausanias would have twisted that knife, once it went in, to be sure, even if he’d hit off center, that it would do maximum damage. Then, of course, he’s off like a shot, shoving Philippos at Alexandros.

Philippos was probably still conscious enough to feel his son grab him and hear him shout, “Get him!” But after that, shock would’ve kicked in and he’d have lost consciousness. He’d look dead to Alexandros (and be as good as).

In reality, the brain still survives for a few minutes even after the heart stops. He’d no doubt have had the “life flashes before your eyes” experience. He might have felt fury at Pausanias, but largely, I think, for interrupting his plans. I suspect his main concern would be the safety of his son and of his kingdom. At the approach of death, things pare down to the most basic and most important. I doubt that included Pausanias except peripherally (probably to Pausanias’s dismay, if he knew).

So that’s my take on what Philippos probably thought at the end.

[athenepromachos]

Front and (a rare) back photo of the 10ft tall "Athena Velletri" a Roman marble copy of an original Greek bronze. The original bronze statue was mentioned by the Roman traveller Pausanius as being situated on the Acropolis in Athens. Her right arm originally held a spear whilst her left is generally believed to have held a phiale (a libation bowl), although a statue of Nike has also been suggested. Found in Italy, she currently resides in the Louvre 🏛🏺

[myths-and-chaos]

After a hectic couple of days, the facts are back!

In Ancient Greece, the Olympics weren't the only series of "games" held on a four year basis- there was actually 4!

The Olympic, Nemean, Pythian and Isthmian games were each held in their own sanctuaries across Greece. Each of these sanctuaries and temples are renowned for their panhellenic nature- simply, they were sites travelled to and utilised by people from all across Ancient Greece, and were typically far larger than other temples in the area.

Olympia, in the ancient state of Elis, was a sanctuary of Zeus, famed for its now destroyed statue of Zeus (which stood a whopping 40ft! and was created by the sculptor of the Parthenon- Pheidias discussed in chapters 5.11-12 of Pausanias' Description of Greece)

Nemea, in the ancient state of Argolis, was most famous for its temple of Zeus (similarly to Olympia) (Discussed briefly in Pausanias 2.15.2-3) and of course the Nemean Lion of Heraklean legend was from this area!

Isthmia, on the ancient Corinth Isthmus, was a sanctuary to Poseidon, having won the Isthmus from Helios- who in turn gained the sky above the city (Pausanias, 2.1.2-2.2.2)

Delphi, the site for the Pythian games in the ancient state of Phokis, was a sanctuary to Apollo, known for the Delphic Oracle, and the earliest of the Pythian games comprised of nothing but hymn singing! (Pausanias, 10.7.2-8)

A really interesting source of information (for the Ancient Olympics) is the You're Dead To Me podcast available on Spotify and BBC sounds, in which Prof. Michael Scott discusses the games with host Greg Jenner and a comedian guest- honestly I 100% recommend this podcast anyway as each episode centres around a different era/ figure from history!

[hexjulia]

part of why Pausanias feels so conversational is because he just stops in the middle of describing a temple and tells the reader he's stopping because it came to him in a dream that he should shut up about it. You're looking through a little window into the far past and suddenly the author's hand reaches in front of you to close the curtain.

[aboutanancientenquiry]

“The meal after the victorious battle of Plataea

According to Herodotus, the historian who described the Greek-Persian wars in detail, when the Spartan Commander-in-Chief Pausanias, after the victorious battle of Plataea, entered the scene of the killed Persian General Mardonius: "... he ordered the bakers and the cooks to prepare the dinner Mardonius usually enjoyed. When Pausanias saw the luxurius daybeds, as well as the gold and silver tables loaded with the majestic dinner, he was surprised. As a joke, he ordered his own servants to prepare a Spartan dinner. The difference was so great that he laughed, called all the Generals of the Greeks and said to them, pointing to the two dinners: "Greeks, I called you here to show you the foolishness of the Median ruler who dines like this everyday and moved against us to steal our poverty." We know today many nutritional details of the above scene, namely that the Greek General's meal did not stand out from the hoplites battling under his command. The ration was based on barley bulgur and unleavened barley bread, olives preserved in brine, onions and cured fish wrapped in fig leaves. In his haversack every soldier had salt and thyme to flavor the food, dried figs and a small spit perhaps, for the rare occasion that he would find meat. The army's logistics provided also goat cheese, fresh fruit (figs and grapes in the case of the Battle of Plataea, which took place in late August) and wine diluted with water to give courage to the fighters. The Persians, who, in their vast and multinational troops, served Greeks, Indians and Ethiopians, were supplied by their Theban allies. They also ate barley bread, along with some goat meat, dried dates and almonds. However, the pyramidal structure of the Persian army required Mardonius and his high rank officers to enjoy roasted ducks and peacocks, pilaf flavored with cardamom, honey dripping sweets, wine made from dates and strong barley beer.”

Source: https://olyrafoods.com/blogs/wisdom-treats-blog/the-meal-after-the-victorious-battle-of-plataea

Olyra is the site of a Greek businessman who makes alimentary products inspired by the ancient Greek diet. The information he provides about the culinary habits of ancient Greeks and Persians when these peoples campaigned seems trustworthy. 

I remind here that the question of the motivation of the Persian attempt to conquer Greece is a complex one in Herodotus. But the story reported here illustrates well the theme of the imperial hybris, i.e., of the desire of empires and elites which have already too much to acquire even more through further conquest and expansion.

 I remind also that this report is not a simplistic illustration by Herodotus of some cliché of “Oriental decadence”, as Mardonius is portrayed in the Histories as aggressive and prideful, but also as competent and brave.

And of course the tragic irony of the same story is that Pausanias, the victor of Plataea and savior of the Greek freedom, the defender of the austere Greek way of life face to the Persian culinary luxury, not only adopted some time later the lavish lifestyle of the Persian nobility, but he was even accused of plotting with Xerxes for the subjugation of Greece and was put to death for this reason by the Spartans - through starvation... 

Bust of Pausanias, in the Capitoline Museums, Rome.