#ancient sparta

[astastories]

Helen of Sparta, this drawing is inspired by (you guested it) epic the musical 

[cescalovestowrite]

In my opinion we don't focus enough on this passage told by Pausanias. This is HUGE!Odysseus allows Penelope to choose who she prefers to follow, with the distinct possibility that Penelope will choose her father. In fact, in the "son-in-law's marriage" (i.e. the one in which the spouses move to the bride's father's house) the woman's position is much stronger than in the "daughter-in-law's marriage". By following Odysseus, Penelope chooses to abandon her family and will be asked to get used to a series of new habits, customs, even a different dialect.

So basically Odysseus makes a choice we wouldn't expect, Penelope does the same. Maybe it's just my impression, but it seems to me that one of the many things they have in common is doing things that were a little strange for the time. I won't go into this further, but there are many aspects of Odysseus to discuss in these terms, perhaps I will make a dedicated post later.

The veil is, we could say, the symbol that separates Penelope's life as a maiden from her life as wife of Odysseus.

I had also read an interesting comment about Penelope's use of the veil by an Italian scholar, which reads as follows: "Like her husband Odysseus once used to keep his eyes lowered, because he was thinking, and then his gaze would escape everyone; so Penelope, when she went down into the great room, lifted her peplos on the cheeks, so that the minimum of her expression could be seen".

Food for thought.

[thhouseofblack]

Simplified version of the Spartan Royal Family! From King Lacedaemon and Queen Sparta to Penelope!

[dippy-sketch]

when I tell you I will do anything but my job

[sarafangirlart]

Every time I see someone praise Sparta for anything (regardless of their political leaning) this image flashes before my eyes

[jeannereames]

I didn’t know about the Spartan Mirage. Could you please elaborate on it? Is it something from Antiquity or a modern distortion?

The Spartan Mirage

I will link below to a couple other write-ups on the Spartan Mirage that are reputable, and longer than I have time for here.

But in brief, the Spartan Mirage has become a shorthand for misperceptions of Sparta from antiquity to the present. The “imagined” Sparta versus actual Sparta.

People often prefer myths to reality (as we also see with Alexander), and some groups can get quite angry if you poke holes in their cherished myths. Sparta is elevated by the US Marines; I’ve given up trying to have a coherent conversation with the average marine about Sparta, as I’m either routinely dismissed as a wild-eyed Liberal, patted on the head as “Isn’t she cute, that she thinks she knows military history?” or corrected and mansplained to by guys (they’re always guys) who know jack shit about ancient Greece or the ancient sources, and can’t read Greek.

But we also have a quite serious historiographic problem, as virtually all our sources about Sparta, especially later Sparta, weren’t written by Spartans. And the people who did write them tended either to idolize Sparta, or thought she was batshit. Not helpful. Archaeology (and art history) are useful correctives. But the Spartans liked being mysterious, and cultivated it. They weren’t a tourist destination, and non-Spartans weren’t allowed to stay past a certain amount of time without special dispensation from the kings or somebody else very important. Literally, they kicked you out. They wanted to control how they were seen by outsiders.

So it’s important to understand the difficulties.

The Spartan Mirage goes back into antiquity; it’s not just modern, or even Renaissance. There are, to my mind, three chief contributors to it. Others aided and abetted, but we can lay the formation and continuation of the myth at the feet of Herodotus, Xenophon, and Plutarch. Take away those three, and much of the mythology of Sparta goes poof. Thucydides, predictably, takes a more nuanced approach, as does Aristotle, and the Attic orators (or they’re hostile). I’ll also add that Herodotus’s portrait is not uniformly positive; he’s a more careful writer than some credit him.

So yes, Sparta was a weird place, highly insular—but less weird than sometimes presented. She simply institutionalized/formalized some social dynamics common elsewhere. And the really wacky stories are largely from Plutarch, so late, and suspect. I’d submit that Sparta accidentally created her own myth during the second Persian War, but found it useful and kept it, until it broke down in the pressure cooker of the Peloponnesian War. But it kept coming back like a military zombie.

For just one example, the famous quip, “Molon labe” (“Come and get them” [Spartan weapons]) from Leonnatos to Xerxes is almost certainly fabricated. Plutarch records it centuries later, and it’s not even Doric (Spartan) Greek. There are serious problems with how the phrase would have been remembered or transmitted. Herodotus doesn’t record it. In the immediate aftermath of the Persian Wars, the story of Thermopylae suited the victory tale of the Persian Wars, but as noted, it fell apart after 27 years of ugly conflict in the Peloponnesian War when events such as the capture of Spartans at Sphacteria blew up the Spartan Mirage in ancient Greek pop culture.

Yet it remained a useful myth. Plutarch (et al.) used it in the era of the Second Sophistic, as Greeks under the heel of the Roman Empire needed to remember their “glorious past.” So like a Big Fish tale, the legend of Thermopylae just kept evolving in the ancient world—and later centuries too, right down to today.

Tales like Thermopylae, that promise eternal fame/glory, inspire later generations to lay their lives on the line, or even to give up their lives willingly. “Like Sparta.” A person needs something to hold onto in the face of their own death. Sparta (and the rest of Greece) knew that. So do the Marines.

So here are some articles on it:

Bret Devereaux’s cheeky “This. Isn’t. Sparta.” (Bret knows his military shit.)

Paul Rahe’s “Was There a Spartan Mirage?” (Presents differing ancient views, although he thinks a lot more highly of Plutarch than I do)

A rather decent look at Sparta on Reddit by some person named Iphikrates. Have no idea who he is, but it has a very useful reading list at the end.

Last … Sarah Pomeroy’s Spartan Women is not about the mirage, and a book, but excellently researched and she helps poke holes in aspects of popular ideas about Sparta.

[amorphousbl0b]

Penelope the Spartan

I’ve been seeing folks in the EPIC fandom bringing up Penelope being Spartan for a variety of reasons, from fighting the suitors to having a more muscular character design to the Warrior AU to thinking Odysseus’s massacre was hot. In particular, her strength of character is often attributed to her upbringing there. So I thought I’d leave behind a little history lesson for y’all!

When reading through mythological sources, you might notice a distinct lack of mention paid to Sparta’s warrior reputation. This is because that culture arose at a specific time due to a specific reign; more specifically, that of King Lycurgus during the 9th or 8th century BCE. That's at least about 400 years after the Odyssey would have occurred and the age of heroes ended. It was his administration that introduced such a martial emphasis to the state. His legendary rule (literally legendary, we don’t know if this guy actually existed and most of the reforms can be dated to a good bit later than he's said to have reigned) transformed the polis into the shape it was by the Classical period, when it began its legendary contention with Athens.

Penelope is also associated in the Epic fandom with Ares because of his connection with Sparta. He appears as her divine guide in the Warrior Penelope AU, and many of the jokes or speculation of him aiding Odysseus's massacre of the suitors include a mention of the princess of his favorite city. But it's interesting to note that he, traditionally held as the patron deity of Sparta, didn't appear to have a strong presence in the city even after its warlike reformation. Among the buildings on their acropolis is a temple to Athena, but nothing to Ares. They primarily venerated Apollo, Athena, and Artemis, and in Homer's day probably had an important cult to Hera as she mentions it as one of her favorite cities. The idea that Ares was their patron seems to have arisen simply from Ares and Athena's mythical rivalry being projected onto the fighting between Sparta and Athens, and from the chained statue of him that Pausanias writes about in the 2nd century AD.

During the Heroic Age, which is the period in which the tales of Greek heroes take place and the Odyssey happens at the very end of, Sparta was a very different city from the one we know. Myths do not depict it as uniquely warlike, nor does it practice its famous comparative gender equality. So Penelope would have been a fairly ordinary princess in terms of her origins. All her fortitude is her own.

[skopsidopsi]

Some of my Iliad headcanons part 2

Especially before the war, the Trojan siblings all had the habit of coming into Hector's room during thunderstorms to cuddle up so that he could protect them. Btw Hector himself is a bit afraid of thunderstorms but schhhhh dont tell him that i said that.

Odysseus has a really funny dialect. There is evidence that the Greek spoken in Ithaca was pretty weird..sooo either Odysseus makes an effort when he speaks in conferences or half the audience stops listening after 5 minutes because it's too exhausting.

Achilles is sometimes affectionately referred to by the Myrmidons as Patroclus' tenth dog. (Yes, Patroclus had 9 dogs that he trained regularly...and he def trained Achilles as well ;) )

Hector was Menelaus first and only boy crush when Hector and some Trojans were in Sparta before the war. Menelaus just thought he was kinda hot and never quite got over the feeling (he only loves Helen of course! dont come for meee but Menelaus needs some spice)

Everyone survived the war and is happy ✋️...except for Agamamnon and Paris..Clytaimnestra and Helen (or Hector) did what needed to be done.

[the-good-spartan]

Lakonian kylix featuring Prometheos and his friend, the Eagle.

The hair - facial and head - is so quintessentially Spartan, it’s not funny. And he has his braids in a braid, right? That’s what’s going on back there? Like a super-braid.

Saw this called a Spartan king somewhere along the way. Think that might be a bit of a push, but I do like the idea that some perioikic craftsman was like - ‘Y’know, if I could depict anyone having their liver pecked out on the daily, you know who I’d choose…’

Anyway - This is 7th Century Lakonianware (from before the great cultural shift).

[jasontoddsotherhalf]

Barber shops in ancient Greece were historically noted to be great places for men to gossip with each other.

Just a fact that made me giggle

[chryeos]

hello art for the fellow sun souls

enjoy this angelic man who has ruined so many lives

[deathlessathanasia]

Funniest thing I read today: Sparta worshipped Aphrodite as a warrior goddess because they didn't want to worship the patron goddess of their rivals.

Not the first time I see people claim that ancient Sparta didn't care for or honour Athena, either. Who even came up with this idea?

[thhouseofblack]

No one:

Literally no one:

Me: So there's like atleast a 600 year gap between the Trojan War period and actual Classical & Archaic Greece which had the whole Militaristic Sparta thing goin—

[howtotrainabraincell]

Head cannons bc I can - What kinds of affectionate the Eagle Bearers are

Alexios of Sparta - The Misthios of Eros. TELL ME that this man doesn't have hands. I DARE you. Personal head cannon of mine that he's good at giving massages among various other things... Will be kissing you...A LOT. He doesn't care about other people - he'll stop if you're uncomfortable ofc but otherwise? Man is all about waving the "This is the woman I love and I'ma show it all I want!" flag lol. I see picnics on the beach happening a lot and being the common way you two come together for a relaxing end to your days and a peaceful moment together. You two walk together on the shore in the moonlight and talk about your plans for the future, what you would like to do together, if you both have time what you would like to do the next day together, (what he would like to do to you...man is uhh a connoisseur...of YOU lol). Also teaches you self-defense but after about forty minutes of practice which actually teaches you something, he gets antsy, stalks toward you with a smirk and well... Head cannon that his love kept two drachmae from the first pay he ever brought home from a contract, money that he presented and shyly stated that he made for both of them. She kissed both coins for luck, made them both into necklaces, and gave the token to him. He kissed you in thanks, and then kissed you again, and again, and again.... Would be so.turned.on if you took up for him. Seeing the one he loves get all fierce in defense of him just...gives the Spartan goosebumps. He always asks you to press a kiss to his ACTUAL steel blade (ya nasties...) blade for good luck before he goes for the day to work. He honestly and wholeheartedly believes that your kisses are good luck, this man is just...WHIPPED. He LOVES you more than life itself and ESPECIALLY more than drachmae lol. Any chance he gets he buys you something that he thinks you'll look gorgeous dressed in (or being undressed from..). He often takes your feet in his lap and strokes your calves fondly as you two talk, tracing absentminded patterns. Alexios loves it when you take his face in your hands and gently scratch his stubble, man turns into a Spartan puppy lol. Expect to catch his beautiful brown eyes watching you with a smile on his face anytime you look at him. Escorting you to the market and smiling as he watches you move about gathering items, he feels lucky just to stand and be with you holding your basket. He is a kisser of palms. He'll turn his face into your palms, with his eyes closed, kissing them gently and just enjoying your touch. I don't believe in the canon of him spending all that time alone, so he has his love for all those years as the Eagle Bearer. If it's even possible he loves you more and more everyday than you two spend together and this love never for a moment wanes. Alexios continues to love you even after you two finally rest in Elysium together over two thousand years later.

Kassandra of Sparta - The Playful Misthios. I look at this woman and I see someone who loves to give face kisses. She just loves to take your face in her hands and pepper your face with kisses as you laugh at the ticklish feeling. I see her being fond of the beach. She would take you there often the two of you enjoying the water and of course you wind up burying her in the sand, the two of you laughing hysterically about it. If you cook for her, she'll love it so much, especially Greek dishes which make her feel so happy and at home. (She has fought both Alexios and Stentor over who gets to eat the last of the hummus you made LOL). She loves to sit with you at the end of a long day and talk to you about literally anything, she loves the sound of your voice and thinks you're breathtakingly gorgeous when you laugh. She also loves to have a relaxing moment with you to just enjoy your company and take pleasure in the fact that she is yours, and you are hers. She seems like the type of partner to hold your hand through your fears and try to help you overcome them, she'll never push you too much but if you're genuinely afraid of something she'll try her best to make it less scary for you. If heights are a problem? She'll take you somewhere high slowly where there's a beautiful view and tell you to describe to her what you see, smiling to herself proudly when you focus more on the view than your fear. She is VICIOUS when protecting you. She does NOT play around when it comes to your safety, she'll legit feed their eyes to Ikaros if a single hair on your head is out of place. Try her. She'll for sure teach you combat if you want to learn and gift you a beautiful knife that you carry every day for more than two millennia. Tell me why she plays so.dang.coy when she flirts with you during training and flusters you and then acts soooo innocent about it. Endearing names and confessions of love in her native tongue are constant, with every morning beginning with "I love you" and every night ending with "I love you still". I think we all know that she's a family woman I mean the whole game is pretty much her trying to find her family and be united with them all again after years of separation. I think given the chance she would be a wonderful mater and would love her children and the woman who brought them into the world with every fiber of her being. She loves holding you from behind and resting her chin on your shoulder, loves grabbing your waist and give you a fond but gentle squeeze, CAN and WILL get a mischievous look on her face just before bending down to pick you up over her shoulder and haul you off laughing her Spartan ass off. Kassandra picks you up. And often. Whether it be bridal style or over the shoulder, she just likes to carry you around like the queen she thinks you are. There's a puddle? You're getting picked up. Uncertain terrain that might hurt your feet and ankles? Not on her watch. SCOOP. Holding your hands, tracing your fingers with her own and not feeling a wedding ring on your special finger feels so wrong to the misthios. Rest assured she fixes that quickly. Will braid your hair in intricate styles loving the soft silky feeling of your locks in her hands, who would've thought that such a daunting woman could do thing so sweet and delicate? She sometimes wakes up before you and watches your sleeping face tracing it gently so not to wake you, wondering how she ever got so lucky as to have you by her side. I REFUSE to go with cannon that she spent more than two thousand years alone SO... The love you two have lasts until the very end, through everything you two endured together you stayed strong in your love for one another for over two thousand years. And when the time came for the trade in 2018...you two held hands as you walked to Elysium together for some well-earned rest.

[sarafangirlart]

The kinda hater I strive to be

[smak-annihilation]

"I wish I lived in ancient Greece"

mfs after ending up as a spartan Helot: