#ancient sparta

[sarafangirlart]

Every time I see someone praise Sparta for anything (regardless of their political leaning) this image flashes before my eyes

[amorphousbl0b]

Penelope the Spartan

I’ve been seeing folks in the EPIC fandom bringing up Penelope being Spartan for a variety of reasons, from fighting the suitors to having a more muscular character design to the Warrior AU to thinking Odysseus’s massacre was hot. In particular, her strength of character is often attributed to her upbringing there. So I thought I’d leave behind a little history lesson for y’all!

When reading through mythological sources, you might notice a distinct lack of mention paid to Sparta’s warrior reputation. This is because that culture arose at a specific time due to a specific reign; more specifically, that of King Lycurgus during the 9th or 8th century BCE. That's at least about 400 years after the Odyssey would have occurred and the age of heroes ended. It was his administration that introduced such a martial emphasis to the state. His legendary rule (literally legendary, we don’t know if this guy actually existed and most of the reforms can be dated to a good bit later than he's said to have reigned) transformed the polis into the shape it was by the Classical period, when it began its legendary contention with Athens.

Penelope is also associated in the Epic fandom with Ares because of his connection with Sparta. He appears as her divine guide in the Warrior Penelope AU, and many of the jokes or speculation of him aiding Odysseus's massacre of the suitors include a mention of the princess of his favorite city. But it's interesting to note that he, traditionally held as the patron deity of Sparta, didn't appear to have a strong presence in the city even after its warlike reformation. Among the buildings on their acropolis is a temple to Athena, but nothing to Ares. They primarily venerated Apollo, Athena, and Artemis, and in Homer's day probably had an important cult to Hera as she mentions it as one of her favorite cities. The idea that Ares was their patron seems to have arisen simply from Ares and Athena's mythical rivalry being projected onto the fighting between Sparta and Athens, and from the chained statue of him that Pausanias writes about in the 2nd century AD.

During the Heroic Age, which is the period in which the tales of Greek heroes take place and the Odyssey happens at the very end of, Sparta was a very different city from the one we know. Myths do not depict it as uniquely warlike, nor does it practice its famous comparative gender equality. So Penelope would have been a fairly ordinary princess in terms of her origins. All her fortitude is her own.

[spartansinlove]

[the-good-spartan]

Lakonian kylix featuring Prometheos and his friend, the Eagle.

The hair - facial and head - is so quintessentially Spartan, it’s not funny. And he has his braids in a braid, right? That’s what’s going on back there? Like a super-braid.

Saw this called a Spartan king somewhere along the way. Think that might be a bit of a push, but I do like the idea that some perioikic craftsman was like - ‘Y’know, if I could depict anyone having their liver pecked out on the daily, you know who I’d choose…’

Anyway - This is 7th Century Lakonianware (from before the great cultural shift).

[howtotrainabraincell]

Head cannons bc I can - What kinds of affectionate the Eagle Bearers are

Alexios of Sparta - The Misthios of Eros. TELL ME that this man doesn't have hands. I DARE you. Personal head cannon of mine that he's good at giving massages among various other things... Will be kissing you...A LOT. He doesn't care about other people - he'll stop if you're uncomfortable ofc but otherwise? Man is all about waving the "This is the woman I love and I'ma show it all I want!" flag lol. I see picnics on the beach happening a lot and being the common way you two come together for a relaxing end to your days and a peaceful moment together. You two walk together on the shore in the moonlight and talk about your plans for the future, what you would like to do together, if you both have time what you would like to do the next day together, (what he would like to do to you...man is uhh a connoisseur...of YOU lol). Also teaches you self-defense but after about forty minutes of practice which actually teaches you something, he gets antsy, stalks toward you with a smirk and well... Head cannon that his love kept two drachmae from the first pay he ever brought home from a contract, money that he presented and shyly stated that he made for both of them. She kissed both coins for luck, made them both into necklaces, and gave the token to him. He kissed you in thanks, and then kissed you again, and again, and again.... Would be so.turned.on if you took up for him. Seeing the one he loves get all fierce in defense of him just...gives the Spartan goosebumps. He always asks you to press a kiss to his ACTUAL steel blade (ya nasties...) blade for good luck before he goes for the day to work. He honestly and wholeheartedly believes that your kisses are good luck, this man is just...WHIPPED. He LOVES you more than life itself and ESPECIALLY more than drachmae lol. Any chance he gets he buys you something that he thinks you'll look gorgeous dressed in (or being undressed from..). He often takes your feet in his lap and strokes your calves fondly as you two talk, tracing absentminded patterns. Alexios loves it when you take his face in your hands and gently scratch his stubble, man turns into a Spartan puppy lol. Expect to catch his beautiful brown eyes watching you with a smile on his face anytime you look at him. Escorting you to the market and smiling as he watches you move about gathering items, he feels lucky just to stand and be with you holding your basket. He is a kisser of palms. He'll turn his face into your palms, with his eyes closed, kissing them gently and just enjoying your touch. I don't believe in the canon of him spending all that time alone, so he has his love for all those years as the Eagle Bearer. If it's even possible he loves you more and more everyday than you two spend together and this love never for a moment wanes. Alexios continues to love you even after you two finally rest in Elysium together over two thousand years later.

Kassandra of Sparta - The Playful Misthios. I look at this woman and I see someone who loves to give face kisses. She just loves to take your face in her hands and pepper your face with kisses as you laugh at the ticklish feeling. I see her being fond of the beach. She would take you there often the two of you enjoying the water and of course you wind up burying her in the sand, the two of you laughing hysterically about it. If you cook for her, she'll love it so much, especially Greek dishes which make her feel so happy and at home. (She has fought both Alexios and Stentor over who gets to eat the last of the hummus you made LOL). She loves to sit with you at the end of a long day and talk to you about literally anything, she loves the sound of your voice and thinks you're breathtakingly gorgeous when you laugh. She also loves to have a relaxing moment with you to just enjoy your company and take pleasure in the fact that she is yours, and you are hers. She seems like the type of partner to hold your hand through your fears and try to help you overcome them, she'll never push you too much but if you're genuinely afraid of something she'll try her best to make it less scary for you. If heights are a problem? She'll take you somewhere high slowly where there's a beautiful view and tell you to describe to her what you see, smiling to herself proudly when you focus more on the view than your fear. She is VICIOUS when protecting you. She does NOT play around when it comes to your safety, she'll legit feed their eyes to Ikaros if a single hair on your head is out of place. Try her. She'll for sure teach you combat if you want to learn and gift you a beautiful knife that you carry every day for more than two millennia. Tell me why she plays so.dang.coy when she flirts with you during training and flusters you and then acts soooo innocent about it. Endearing names and confessions of love in her native tongue are constant, with every morning beginning with "I love you" and every night ending with "I love you still". I think we all know that she's a family woman I mean the whole game is pretty much her trying to find her family and be united with them all again after years of separation. I think given the chance she would be a wonderful mater and would love her children and the woman who brought them into the world with every fiber of her being. She loves holding you from behind and resting her chin on your shoulder, loves grabbing your waist and give you a fond but gentle squeeze, CAN and WILL get a mischievous look on her face just before bending down to pick you up over her shoulder and haul you off laughing her Spartan ass off. Kassandra picks you up. And often. Whether it be bridal style or over the shoulder, she just likes to carry you around like the queen she thinks you are. There's a puddle? You're getting picked up. Uncertain terrain that might hurt your feet and ankles? Not on her watch. SCOOP. Holding your hands, tracing your fingers with her own and not feeling a wedding ring on your special finger feels so wrong to the misthios. Rest assured she fixes that quickly. Will braid your hair in intricate styles loving the soft silky feeling of your locks in her hands, who would've thought that such a daunting woman could do thing so sweet and delicate? She sometimes wakes up before you and watches your sleeping face tracing it gently so not to wake you, wondering how she ever got so lucky as to have you by her side. I REFUSE to go with cannon that she spent more than two thousand years alone SO... The love you two have lasts until the very end, through everything you two endured together you stayed strong in your love for one another for over two thousand years. And when the time came for the trade in 2018...you two held hands as you walked to Elysium together for some well-earned rest.

[smak-annihilation]

"I wish I lived in ancient Greece"

mfs after ending up as a spartan Helot:

[crazycatsiren]

Another thing that historians seem to agree on: the Spartans were insane.

[deathlessathanasia]

Funniest thing I read today: Sparta worshipped Aphrodite as a warrior goddess because they didn't want to worship the patron goddess of their rivals.

Not the first time I see people claim that ancient Sparta didn't care for or honour Athena, either. Who even came up with this idea?

[jeannereames]

Was there a political body like the Gerousia for ancient Macedon? If yes, what was its relationship with the monarchy?

No, nothing that formal.

Gerousia vs. Hetairoi

That said, the king had "Companions" or Hetairoi. These were aristocratic landowners who were literal companions of the king; they fought with him, rode with him, hunted with him, and dined with him. They weren't kings, but could be king-makers, and he often tested out new ideas with them first, or turned to them as advisors in war and peace.

But unlike the Gerousia of Sparta, the king also MADE them. Literally. He could appoint men as Hetairoi. He could also remove the honor (as seems to have happened to Airopos of Lynkestis). Also, the king's Hetairoi didn't have to be Macedonian, or even Greek. While we know for sure only that Alexander named Persians, almost certainly the first Alexander made a Companion of Bubares, the Persian who married his sister!

We don't know their numbers, which surely expanded and contracted over time. Gene Borza estimates about 100 under Philip, and this may be right. Alexander's famous "Tent of 100 Couches" that he inherited from Daddy is a clue. So is the size of the first row (the only stone row) of seats at the Aigai/Aegae theatre. Gene measured it, and you could fit about 100 butts on it. Ha. Under Alexander, that number expanded a fair bit.

Last, what isn't clear to me is whether only the father was a Hetairos, or if that extended to his sons even while he was alive. If not, after he died, was only one named Hetairos in turn, or could all of them be? If so, it would seem to expand their numbers exponentially. In Dancing with the Lion, I decided to make the formal title apply only to the father/elder brother, but one having it ennobled the whole family. Ergo, Parmenion was the Hetairos, but Philotas, Nikanor, and Hektor are all Hetairoi by extension. I'm never all that clear about it (on purpose), but I had to make some decisions.

In a novel, you can't say, "Well, it might have been this, but it could have been that..." Ha. When reading Dancing, keep that in mind. Sometimes I present as settled a point of detail about Macedonian politics that isn't settled, even in my own mind. I expect most people realize as much, but it never hurts to reiterate the point.

Also, a while back, I did a much longer post on some of the various offices at the court:

TRADITIONAL OFFICES AT THE MACEDONIAN COURT: Hetairoi, Pages, Somatophylakes

[karagin22]

[firstknightvulion]

I am a major history buff and have been listening to some history podcasts. This history joke/meme has been rattling in my head all day. Now, it’s your turn to suffer.

Ares: It’s Pride Month, you know what that means.

Spartan 1: Huh? What?

Spartan 2: Does you want us to war with, like, Gay Greeks, what?

Spartan 1: Isn’t that all of them?

Spartan 2: Isn’t that all of us?

Spartan 3: My spouse has a vagina and it scares me!

It surprises me how little people tend to know about the people they claim to exonerate.

Also, the bias so many writers had against women in ancient times was kinda much.

Some Ancient Roman Woman: Hey, honey. Maybe you shouldn’t crucify babies and ease up on the taxes to fund your blood orgies.

Some Ancient Roman Man: You’re right, honey. An even hand might be needed in this situation. Thank you for your sound advice:

Roman Historian for the next five hundred years: So he simped for his nagging bitch of a wife instead of sticking his dick in every hole he came across like a true Chad. His wife ate babies til she died at eighty when the Gods decided fuck that cunt. This is why we lost the Legions in Germania.

Or

Ancient Greek Writer: Upon whose feet should we lay the blame for the ten years of war with Troy?

Homer: Was Helen a woman the entire time?

Ancient Greek Writer: …yes?

Homer: Well, there you go.

It was that little shit Paris. Blame Paris. Kick him in the shin and tell him his hair looks stupid.

It’s like reading an incel message board.

[m1ssnovember]

-my own writing

[minetteskvareninova]

I’ve never watched a video from this Monsieur Z fellow, but the title of his last one is... Certainly a banger. “What if Sparta Conquered Greece?”

Yeah, dude, what if Sparta had an expansive rather than isolationist state ideology, a fucking clue about logistics, and army that wasn’t just the glorified version of the same old hoplite system everyone used and based off of their increasingly small and more exclusive ruling class? Wonder what that would be like, if Sparta wasn’t fucking Sparta, but displaced Macedon???

[spartansinlove]

[the-good-spartan]

Posts about Ancient Greek History

Things I write to help process information and assemble my notes and thoughts for future reference.

This is an ongoing project. I will add more over time.

My focus is primarily the Arkhidamian (Archidemian) War with a particular emphasis on Sparta, but I'm currently widening my focus to include the First Peloponnesian War, the Messenian Wars, and the lives of Demosthenes (the General) and Thucydides (the Historian).

Sparta

Their Culture

Spartan scholars be like

Introduction and List of Chief Sources

Becoming a Spartan Citizen, Part One: The Agoge.

Becoming a Spartan Citizen, Part Two: The Phiditia & Contributions to the Mess

Food for Warriors.

Spartan Social Structure: Part One - The Helots || Rent? Contracts?

Spartan Social Structure: Part Two - The Perioikoi

Spartan Social Structure: Part Three - Spartan Women || A few notes on the Rites dedicated to Helen at Sparta

Spartan Social Structure: Part Four - The Hypomeiones

Stalkers in the Night: The Krypteia || Primary Sources: Krypteia

The Horses of Lakedaimon

The Spartan Political Structure: Damos, Ephors, Gerontes, Kings.

Spartan Men and their Hair || Examples of likely hairstyles

Felt Helmets

Rethinking the scale of Spartan mess and barrack buildings

Spartan Games

Ask: Did Homoioi Travel?

A Few Notes on 427 BCE: The Transfer of the Kingship at Sparta

Military History

Background to the Third Messenian War

The Third Messenian War c. 464 BCE

The Battle of Tanagra c. 457 BCE

Maps (Mostly Related to Brasidas' Campaigns during the Arkhidamian War)

Sparta || Amphipolis 1 || Amphipolis 2 || Koryphasion (Pylos) & Sphakteria || Korinth/Nisaia || Brasidas' Campaign in Makedonia

Sparta in Pop Culture

A Cry of Frustration

Response to Anti-Spartan Sentiment

A Few Notes on God of War: Ragnarok (the Spartan Stuff)

Spartan Armour (this ain’t it)

Thinking About Spartans Thinking

A Distinction Between Sparta and Lakedaimon

Contracts? Rent?

Spartans and Their Aversion to Ranged Warfare?

Posts About Figures in the Arkhidamian War

Brasidas, Son of Tellis.

Probable Timeline of Brasidas' Life

Brasidas' Ossuary

Demosthenes, Son of Alkisthenes (The General):

As a Catalyst to the Battles of Spahkteria and Pylos?

A Few Notes

Alternative to Thucydides' Version of his Death

Thucydides, Son of Oloros (The Historian):

The Way Thucydides Thinks

A Few Notes

Posts about Polytheism and Mythology (Roman & Hellenic) :

Lakonian Royal Lineage (Mythological) || Sparta in the Catalogue of Ships || Helen, Kastor, Polydeukes

Chief Gods worshipped at Sparta (Not Ares!) || The Gods Worshipped at Sparta - further details.

Related Posts:

Roman and Hellenic Mythology: They are not the Same Thing

Viewing History Through a Modern Lens

Graeco-Roman Art: A Cautionary Tale

[howtotrainabraincell]

AC: Odyssey - Deimos

Some thoughts that I've had about Kassandra when she is Deimos if you choose to play as Alexios...she is F-ING TERRIFYING. I know that this has been a debate among players for quite some time, the incessant argument about who the better Deimos is and who is cannon. BUT - Kassandra when she's Deimos? It's why I don't play as Alexios because she legit scares me and I don't wanna fight her lol.

I was on YouTube the other day watching a compilation of all her scenes in Odyssey as Deimos and ONE SCENE STUCK IN MY MIND LIKE WET ON WATER.

That scene where she says - "Finally reunited... Only to lose each other again!" when Alexios talks about finding their mother?

HER FACE. HER EYES. WHY IS IT SO SCARY??? I mean the way her face just drops into warrior - like not even warrior mode - try STRAIGHT SPARTAN DEMON.

I CAN NOT GET HER FACE OUT OF MY MIND I MEAN IT LEGIT TERRIFIED ME.

The way she went from having a somewhat actually sweet smile to one of crazed anger and hatred and the EYE DILATION - I - JUST - I didn't know they could even capture something so detailed like that in a dadgum video game!

I replayed that ONE PART at LEAST TWENTY times and it had the same effect each time. Chills. Goosebumps. Terror. And of course, the urge to run away screaming in terror.

The video is called Assassin's Creed: Odyssey - All Deimos Scenes (Kassandra)

From about 12:15 to 12:40 is the scene that I'm referring to.

But at 12:30 EXACTLY. LOOK.AT.HER.FACE.

If they meant to put the fear of God in me with that then CONGRATULATIONS CUZ I'M TERRIFIED.