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imaginative-123 · 2 months ago

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Why Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss have a Misandry Issue Part 1

A part of me questions myself if I have to make this post, but then I decided in my free time I finally let go of my doubts and have finally decided to make this post, bec deep inside I wanted to be honest with both of these shows how it depicts men including men who are part of the LGBTQ spectrum, the post will be me going in depth of the creator's shows, that includes the analysis and criticisms of Vivziepop's work.

TRIGGER WARNING:

This post will contain Sexual Assault, Sexual Harassment, R@pe, Power Dynamics/ Power Imbalance, Misogyny and Misandry.

If you are uncomfortable with this topic that I'm going to discuss, you can choose not to continue reading this post however if you are willing to continue regardless of the contents and sensitive topics that I'm going to discuss, please proceed with caution.

So first let's talk about Misandry, since this term isn't as well known as Misogyny, Misandry's definition is the dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men (i.e. the male sex). However Misandry is a term I didn't recognize being used until this year when I found on Reddit that there are few posts and comments talking about it compared to Misogyny, and it surprised me why isn't this term isn't as talked about but then in my experience on Twitter and Reddit that there are certain subreddits and other comments denying that "Misandry doesn't exist."

To which I disagree while yes I'm a woman, I do see and experience Misogyny in online spaces including in real world and other women face thru issues like sexism, physical and emotional abuse from other men, r@pe, sexual harassment and etc., that still doesn't excuse being biased and ignore what men faced thru in real life, there are stories I've seen from other men who were drugged and also being physically abused by their ex girlfriend or other women, r@ped and sexually abused by the older woman or in this case an older man, I've seen a video before of a guy singing on stage only to get groped on his dick by a woman and she laughed at him and at the end he was shocked and left the stage from embarrassment, falsely being accused of sexual assault, toxic yaoi fangirls sexually harassing gay or straight men of who's the top and bottom, little boys being molested or raped by older people, families and that includes male and female teachers, telling Men to stop crying bec Boys can't cry, there is also a Twitter post from a woman wishing Male Suicide rates go up, there are few Twitter posts from Women wishing to abort male babies from existing, ignoring Male SA Victims and laugh at their experience bec they got "lucky" and wish they got into their place, Media that makes jokes about Male SA and etc., seeing these stories from men who experience that really made me feel sorry for them and I don't think they deserved that. Plus, this isn't me discrediting female victims I do also support them including male victims, in regards to r@pe just bec it happens to women it can also happen to men including people on the LGBTQ community and nobody deserved to be r@ped, I'm not an SA Survivor, but I'm so glad I didn't experienced it bec of how traumatizing and horrifying r@pe is, and also a comment earlier I've seen on Reddit is that Women and children r@ped and died from the hands of men, yes I'm not denying it definitely exists but doesn't mean we can ignore that it can happen to men including little boys in the hands of their abusers and murderers. Also my brother was physically abused by my father and my sister had to witnessed the abuse on front of her, my Mom and Dad were always fighting personal problems and I was also physically abused by my father before my parents separated and it took me years for my father to changed as a person before he died in Sept 5, 2016 due to Stroke. Plus this year is his death anniversary, I understand if there are children who can't forgive their abusive parent but for me my father proved to me that he can change as a person and I have already have forgiven him before he died.

The main reason why I want to discuss Misandry bec it relates to Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss while I can see many posts discussing how poorly the main female characters are handled by Vivziepop and I completely understand why the critical community have issues with that, the issues that happened with the male characters in regards to Misandry have few posts which is why I want to tackle it.

The next topic I want to tackle is the MLM or Gay Representation in the show Helluva Boss bec this also the main reason why I made this post.

Vivziepop and her crew loved to boast and pride about their Queer Representation but as someone who watched the show, as a bisexual woman myself, the Queer Representation is just as shallow and a mixed bag to be honest, the reason for that is Viv's depiction of gay men is not only misandrist but also sexist on how they were depicted. But before we deep dive to the male gay characters on how they were depicted I wanted to focus on the term that is mostly being used on fictional gay relationships that is Yaoi. Yaoi is a Japanese term for manga that features sexual romance between men, specifically as created by and for women. In the West, yaoi is used more generally to refer to any anime, manga, fan fiction, that focuses on romance between men. Although to be fair, Yaoi from what I've seen can also be consumed by gay men, the main reason I brought up Yaoi is that because Viv's shows are being accused of stereotypes about gay men such as fetishization of r@pe, power imbalance, sexual harassment and etc. That's because Yaoi is a very controversial subject in the community where there are gay people who are split about the depictions of gay men in Yaoi and BL's, there are gay men who dislike the fetishization and that it only appeals to women but there are others who defend it as just fiction.

For me personally I don't think there's an issue with consuming Yaoi or BL's and I'm not saying women can't enjoy it, but as someone who is desensitized to the stereotypes that BL I consumed in my earlier teen years I can't just ignore the real issue, bec back then I used to be a proshipper, I used to defend artists who were being sent death threats and harassments from antis and I used to defend problematic fiction and ships and I always go thru arguments with people who don't like it, I was offensive and also not mentally well in the past but as of this year I no longer support Proshipping since I do not stand by that including my not so great behavior from the past, but that doesn't mean I will not stoop down to the same level of antis that will harass or threaten proshippers and I don't accept that. However just bec it's fiction argument, it still needs to be criticized for valid reasons, and also just bec Yaoi have stereotypes does this mean the entire genre is like this? No, there are other stories who don't fall into the same problematic stereotypes, but still sadly, Yaoi and BL is still controversial for continuing it's stereotypical depiction of gay men and it's also mostly present in Webtoons and Manhwas.

When I revisited GoatJesus' video about Examining the Yaoi ★ BL Genre where he as a gay man analyzes but also criticize Yaoi's depiction of men but also praises other shows for straying away from stereotypes and there are certain parts of the video that stood out to me that I will put here where GoatJesus talks about the main points about Yaoi. To which I edited 2 clips into 1 video.

Regarding the women who write BL or Yaoi's, I'm not against women who write that specific genre, nor I'm mysogynistic that women have no freedom to write stories, and I do believe that not many female authors fall into writing stereotypes about gay men, however this does not mean that I can't just ignore that other women and other most popular female writers who still write harmful views onto gay men and this comment under GoatJesus video sums up my main issues from that online article that was being discussed.

The reason it's related to Vivziepop, bec Viv herself a female writer still falls into writing stereotypes about gay men and I will finally discuss on the subject of Helluva Boss first before Hazbin Hotel. The first characters we will going to tackle is Blitz, the main character and founder of IMP, and he himself is also confirmed to be Pansexual.

I'll be completely honest, Blitz is an interesting character, he himself have relationship problems of his insecurities getting in his way and mostly the mistakes that he made to people whom he used to be closed with, and he usually acts as confident and arrogant and badass on the outside but deep inside he had issues, but the way the show tackles jokes that Blitz made is really uncomfortable most especially in Season 1 where he made rape threats to Moxxie and his wife Millie.

That next episodes includes making demeaning jokes to Moxxie and let's not forget sexual harassment and invading space of the Imp couple.

The biggest problem is that Blitz up until Apology Tour had never tried to apologize for making Moxxie uncomfortable and invading him and his wife's personal space, while yes it is true that Blitz himself craves for a healthy relationship that he sees in them that doesn't excuse his past actions. This is not only the issue I see in Blitz's character this is also how other characters also treat him like dirt. Let's start with Loona, Blitz was a caring but also overprotective of Loona bec he himself first discovered Loona at the adoption center for Hellhounds where he saw Loona fending herself against a male hellhound who tried to hurt her and she herself was alone and crying about how depressing her situation was, which thankfully Blitz with good intentions did finally adopted her and became her dad, throughout S1 Loona herself was like any other emo goth girl but for Blitz regardless of Loona's personality still loved her, this however changed in Spring Broken where Loona developed a crush on Vortex and that's where Blitz developed his overprotective tendencies to which when they got in the human world where Loona tried to start a conversation with Vortex until Blitz interrupted them bec he wanted to focus on the main goal of getting back their parking space from Verosika and that's where they both started arguing bec Loona thinks Blitz can't leave her alone and she told him he's not her real dad and she herself views as an adult, Blitz cannot control his overprotective tendencies and Loona tells Blitz she doesn't need him. Loona later tries to apologize but Blitz cuts her off and tells her to enjoy her break while he continues finishing his job, although after Millie defeats the fish monster they both came back in the human world, in Truth Seeker, Loona and Millie where willing to rescue the boys who were left in the human world and being abducted by the Dhorks and Loona was willing to help her team defeat the members of the Dhorks and Loona was given a kiss in the cheek by Blitz and he was proud of her for helping IMP to which she was embarrassed but still continues fighting. The episode that stood out to me is Queen Bee which is the last segment where Loona takes care of the drunk Blitz and was willing to let him rest after Blitz tells her his insecurities of his fear of dying but Loona reassures him she will be there for him.

You know maybe Loona wasn't that bad to Blitz right? Right? Wrong, in the past I used to liked Seeing Stars bec of Loona and Octavia's relationship develop like sisters, yet this however doesn't excuse the problem on how Loona treats Blitz as she's suddenly violent and being abusive to Blitz for no reason like Blitz regardless of me not excusing how he treated Moxxie, but I don't recall him sexually harassing Loona nor talking about her body, all I remember is him trying to be a good dad to Loona yet somehow he's in the wrong for wanting Loona to be better and yet at the end get kicked in the nuts for no reason despite Blitz wanting to apologize to her because?

"HAHAHA! IT'S GIRLBOSS, AND FEMINIST TO KICK MEN IN THE NUTS FOR NO REASON OTHER THAN COMEDY! PLEASE LAUGH!!!"

That's not funny, that's insulting and it definitely regressed the development of Loona and Blitz father and daughter relationship in the first season. Loona however just like Blitz had never apologized for treating people in the wrong and the show somehow forgot about it and it just went back to normal. So anyways let's talk about Stolas, Stolas is by far one of the most controversial characters in the show bec there are people being split about his character, there are fans who loved him but there are haters who truly hated him, bec there are reasons the critical space is not fond or welcome of him, that's bec he has the power in the relationship bec he and Blitz were in a transactional relationship where Blitz is required to have sex with Stolas so that he can still borrow the Grimoire book to the human world for his business of killing people. The Reason there is a Power Imbalance comes from the fact that Blitz an Imp that is a lower class demon and Stolas is from the Goetia a higher class demon above imps and not only Goetias are also racists and looked down upon Imps with the exception of Octavia. This is the common trope that you may see in problematic relationships that also includes transactional relationships in Yaoi and BL's where the Seme has the power and masculinity in the relationship while the Uke is lower and have no agency of his free will and this is the equivalent of a heternomative stereotypes that is placed upon 2 men, while there are people who analyzed Yaoi said that it have Misogynistic tropes bec of hetenormative roles places upon men, I'd say in my opinion it's more Misandrist bec it doesn't view men in an actual gay relationship but in a lens of a straight person on how they view gay men. This is however in Helluva Boss the roles are reversed since Blitz is the top while Stolas is the power bottom, but let's be real if Stolas a Rich Goetia is the Top and have power in the relationship while Blitz is the bottom in lower class it would be much more controversial and people would see it more as sexual coercion. But bec the roles are reversed and why there are fans of the ship don't view it as toxic bec Stolas a gay bottom man was babyfied by the narrative that can't do wrong in the relationship and that Stolitz is just a misunderstanding of bad communication in a relationship when if anyone with critical lens would look deeper and see the relationship as problematic and there is a power imbalance in their relationship yet I found out that one of the fans of HB said that Stolitz is meant to be endgame by Viv, and I was like did Viv see nothing wrong in their relationship? The relationship was built from transaction, including Stolas sexually harassing Blitz in front of his daughter, was the result of cheating from his wife Stella as to why she was rightfully upset at her husband and it was retconned in Season 2 to make her a cartoonish villain with no depth compared to Stolas, and they were supposed to be canon at end? No thank you, Ma'am, Blitz deserved a better partner than Stolas or hell he could've fixed his relationship with Verosika since I found their relationship more interesting than Stolitz, yet Blitz was the one who should apologize to Stolas instead of Stolas taking accountability and not apologizing for looking down on him, sexually harassing him and having the power in the relationship. It's just frustrating to watch that not only diminishes the YT views of S2 compared to S1 but the relationship overtakes the premise of the show about assassination. Doesn't help the fact the show has the will they don't they kind of relationship where the show finds Stolitz to be romantic but also not romantic at the same just like how Viv and her writing staff view them.

Now let's talk about Chaz, he's the character I truly hate on my first viewing of him last year when the episode was released, he's the embodiment of everything wrong with Helluva Boss with it's overused of sex jokes relating to male genitalia or dick jokes and sexual harassment, the guy was just only part of Crimson's Mafia and being both Moxxie and Millie's ex boyfriend. His only character was just being annoying, talks about how sexy he was, his dick, sexually harassing Moxxie and annoying Millie and we don't exactly know why they break up, and his music theme is annoying to listen to. It's even worse that he's Pansexual and just like the main male characters in the show where they nonstop talk about their genitalia like Blitz, I'm serious what's the purpose of his character anyway? He almost serves no purpose to the narrative unless it was just him marrying Moxxie so he can get into Crimson's wealth. I'll be completely honest I'm glad he died, I felt so frustrated to watch him, and unfortunately he had a cult fanbase dedicated to him and there are others like me who don't like him either. I feel like I'm questioning Viv's view on gay men is disturbing to be honest.

Lastly, I wanna talk about Moxxie, my dear poor bisexual Moxxie, he was the character who was the the victim of sexual harassment, the butt of jokes, being humiliated for being in a healthy relationship with Millie that is being set in Hell. I do feel bad for how he was treated by the narrative that involves around SA, the show constantly makes jokes about Moxxie being SA by Verosika and her crew including Chaz and Blitz,

Doesn't help the fact in which he was forced to marry Chaz when he's also forced to wear a Wedding Dress against his will and was being tied up and turned to a damsel in distress for Millie to saved him, I'll be completely honest, I have no issues with Moxxie being Bisexual, the issue comes from the fact that the female and male characters humiliate and SA him and was being forced to a feminine role against his will, it's one thing if a gay man wants to express freely his sexuality and I have no issue with that, men can express being gay and not be shamed for it. The issue was that Moxxie was being forced against his will and it was irritating to see him like that, the last time the show never humiliates him is when he licks Blitz Asmodeus crystal to help him to activate and go back to the human realm bec Blitz conveniently can't activate it himself. However this does not excuse how the past episodes treat him.

This is the post I will make for Helluva Boss bec I have to rest and I will make a second post about Hazbin Hotel when I have time since there's a lot of stuff to unpack in another post. Just a reminder, this post I made have no bad intentions towards Vivziepop and her staff, this is just me a Bisexual Woman who consumes BL who was also being critical of the genre that I'm consuming and giving my personal and honest thoughts of Viv's depiction of her Gay men in her shows. Just a reminder if you want to comment on my post that's fine but I do not accept bigotry and homophobia, bec I might as well block you, all I want is a personal discussion of the gay representations being represented in the show. Thank you and Goodnight.

Edit: I just found out that there is a minor retweeted my post while I do understand that they are also critical of the show however my account says Minors do Not Interact since my post also tackles adult themes that is not suitable for minors and also I personally disagree with their views on Lucifer but regardless, if a minor sees this post please do not interact. Bec I might as well block you, I don't think an adult like me should be discussing adult stuff in front of minors in online spaces.

#helluva boss critical #vivziepop critical #vivziepop criticism #helluva boss criticism #vivziepop critique #helluva boss critique #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel critique #hazbin hotel criticism #spindlehorse criticism #spindlehorse critical #spindlehorse critique

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lifeafterartsch00l · 2 months ago

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My fav sns smut

or some of it anyway

If Naruto x Sasuke fking nasty is your ☕️

I tried to find all these beloved authors to tag them, but I couldn’t find them all, if you know who they are, plz tag them! Let’s share the ❤️

In no particular order

Healing the Broken by KizuKatana

When people tell me about smut they read in printed books I’m like

Because it’s fics like these that amaze me with their ingenuity, creativity, originality, and boldness 🔥🔥🔥

AKA

This fic isn’t just PWP (although that’s fine too in my book), it’s so well written with character development, action & romance ❤️‍🔥 Predators by the same author is also excellent 👌🏽

Thx u @kizukatana 😊

“Chapters: 23/23

Rating: Explicit

Warnings: Underage

Relationships: Uchiha Sasuke/Uzumaki Naruto

Characters: Uzumaki Naruto, Uchiha Sasuke

Additional Tags: Angst, SPOILERS MANGA CHAPTER 693, Drug Use, sex during drug use, Canon-Typical Violence, canon!sasuke, canon!naruto, Addiction, Slash, narusasunaru, Fix-It, my version of how it should have ended, Friends to Lovers, Enemies to Friends to Lovers, Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, NSFW, Smut

Series: Part 1 of HTB universe

Summary: The war is over, and Sasuke is brought back to the village after his defeat by Naruto. But he is struggling to re-assimilate into the village. As his mental stability continues to erode, Tsunade and Kakashi ask Naruto to try a different treatment method. Naruto x Sasuke (slash - boy x boy). Post manga chapter 693.

Warning: Hard Yaoi (Boy x Boy) language, angst, mental illness, substance abuse, masturbation, eventual sex. Not appropriate for young readers. 18+

Disclaimer - As with everything I write on this site, I don't own the characters (Kishimoto does), and I make no money. My only payment is in reviews.

Spanish Translation by Linme (thank you!) “

[doujinshi] My Lost Himawari by SouthNorthSound

Me, to the artist (and English translator) of this visually stunning and well written doujinshi -

Seriously. It’s amazing. The visual metaphors. The angst. The way the artist can simply draw a single panel of a close-up Uchiha eye that is so outrageously sultry and sexy I don’t understand 🥵 one of the extra chapters unlocked something in me (the dream one). Bonus that it’s also really funny & has a lot of respect/empathy for its women characters too! If anyone knows who this artist plz let me know I would like to follow them until the end of the world ❤️ the ending healed me 💔

EDIT HOLY S*** GUYS I FOUND THE TRANSLATOR & ARTIST ON TUMBLR

Thx u @southnorthsound 😭❤️🫡🙇🏻‍♀️

Thx u @gigihorseinthehouse 😭 I love you I low key think you’re a genius ok sorry bye 👉🏽👈🏽

"https://archiveofourown.org/works/36581581

[doujinshi] My Lost Himawari by SouthNorthSound

Chapters: 60/60

Fandom: Naruto, Boruto: Naruto Next Generations

Rating: Mature

Relationships: Uchiha Sasuke/Uzumaki Naruto

Characters: Uchiha Sasuke, Uzumaki Naruto, Haruno Sakura, Hyuuga Hinata, Uchiha Sarada, Uzumaki Boruto, Uzumaki Himawari, Hatake Kakashi, Nara Shikamaru, Temari (Naruto), Nara Shikadai, Akimichi Chouchou, Gaara (Naruto)

Additional Tags: Fanart, Fan Comics, Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, SasuNaru - Freeform, NaruSasu - Freeform, Translation, Doujinshi, Fix-It, how it should have ended, Angst, If you don’t understand how they ended up like that in Boruto READ THIS, Poetic, comedic, Loyal to canon, Angst with a Happy Ending, Fluff and Angst, NSFW Art, Sex

Summary: A love story consists of different perspectives and different memories. It’s about saudade / realization / entanglement / out of control / hope / restart

Chapter700 background

Warning: adult content in extra chapters

Fan comics, doujinshi. It's highly recommended to read it on big screens such as iPad or PC. So you can see details about their facial expressions

One of the best Naruto fanart I’ve ever seen. So I translated it ❤”

Inevitablity by Sanauria_Maldhun

If the answer is

A) Yes

B) Kinda

C) Mind your own business rando internet pervert

Congrats all answers are correct = GO READ IT PLZ

Possessive & desperate 🥵 super gay, delicious angst, really hot 🔥 very enjoyable - fun tropes, everything hits just right, utter perfection ❤️ I’m not saying a lot because I don’t want to give away spoilers 😍

I couldn’t find this author on tumblr, plz tag in the comments if you know who they are!

“Chapters: 4/4

Rating: Explicit

Relationships: Uchiha Sasuke/Uzumaki Naruto, Haruno Sakura/Yamanaka Ino

Characters: Uzumaki Naruto, Uchiha Sasuke, Yamanaka Ino, Haruno Sakura

Additional Tags: Fake/Pretend Relationship, (between Ino and Naruto), Mutual Pining, Angst, Fluff, Fluff and Angst, Banter, Domesticity, Pining, Naruto is so in love, and doesn't know how to handle his Feelings, Jealousy, Jealous Sasuke, Jealous Sakura, Post-Chapter 699 (Naruto), Explicit Sexual Content, Anal Sex, Gay Sex, Angst with a Happy Ending, Hurt/Comfort, Slow Burn, Bottom Uzumaki Naruto, Top Uchiha Sasuke

Summary: Naruto's stressed and pining after a man who views him only as a friend. Deciding to get married to Ino isn't the best decision he's made (ever), given that they had been absolutely drunk while making such a declaration, but it's... a decision. Besides, what does he have to lose?”

You’ve gotten into my bloodstream (a bite of his heart) by lovenmaze

Nom nom nom 😉 kidding! Not literal cannibalism, it’s a metaphor for love, and this fic is beautiful 😍 poetic & sexy. One shot. Love how Naruto talks to Sasuke in this one (and makes him talk, too, hehe…) 🥵 delicious, please go tuck into this feast ❤️ author made an excellent fic playlist too!

Thx u @lovenmaze 😊

“https://archiveofourown.org/works/56430019

Chapters: 1/1

Rating: Not Rated

Relationships: Uchiha Sasuke/Uzumaki Naruto

Characters: Uchiha Sasuke, Uzumaki Naruto

Additional Tags: Cannibalistic Thoughts, Cannibalism imagery, First Time, Top Uzumaki Naruto, Bottom Uchiha Sasuke, Tender Sex, Blank Period (Naruto), Confessions, Idiots in Love, Not Beta Read, Anal Sex, Anal Fingering, Oral Sex, Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Emotional Sex, Eventual Fluff, Fluff and Smut, they’re both crazy about each other but thats not new, Poetic, Italicized Oh Moment, cannibalism as a metaphor for love, trust me it works and its SO good, consent is sexy !!!, lowkey vampire sasuke vibes

Summary: Sasuke tries to bite softly, he’s not going to eat him, maybe get a taste. Perhaps it’s stupid, but he wants to make sure, so he does. He opens his mouth, tongue touching the skin. His body shudders, and Naruto tastes warm, like skin or flesh; he tastes alive.

“A kiss is the beginning of cannibalism.”

AKA, The tender, fluffy, first-time, cannibalism (imagery), smut NaruSasu AU. [EDITED.]”

❤️Thx all u amazing authors u make me feel like this❤️

#naruto #naruto fic rec #naruto fic #sns #narusasu #sasunaru #sasunaru fic #a03 author #a03 writer #a03 fanfic #a03 link #a03 fic #read on a03 #smut #narusasu smut #my fic recs #lifeafterartsch00l fic recs

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daddopenguin · 30 days ago

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Listen y'all if you're gonna ship characters don't let it be Jimmy and Curly like the game shows Jimmy doing all this awful shit like crashing the ship leading to the start of the game and the plot line while making Curly take the literal fall for it as Curly loses all forms to tell the truth because his friend took advantage of him getting burnt to a crisp to the point of only being able to breath and scream in pain.

Jimmy who crashed the ship after the consequences of assaulting Anya and getting her pregnant from it were catching up to him, but instead of finally opening his eyes to how dog shit he is he tries to kill everyone including himself to avoid any punishment.

YET YOU WANT TO SHIP JIMMY AND CURLY BECAUSE WHY?!

Like I'm for shipping but if it's on levels of having a narcissist rapist x the guy he's gas lighted into covering him for years shit you need to stop just fucking stop.

Jimmy has played Curly like a fucking fool and Curly couldn't face his friend because that same friend has manipulated each conversation and interaction they had. It is not yaoi worthy it, it is a fucking warning in who you let into your life and what happens if you don't set boundaries for them.

#mouthwashing #god i hate jimmy #jimmy mouthwashing #captain curly #learn some fucking media literacy #tw rap3

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rockwgooglyeyes · 2 months ago

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rock's thoughts on ivantill (nsfw edition)

trigger/content warning: open and uncensored discussion of nsfw content (smut specifically) I'm not tagging this as mature and leaving it up to the reader's discretion whether or not they're able to handle this. I'm not incredibly explicit but I am talking about something inherently nsfw.

the thing about nsfw is that, when it comes to fandom, it often is based less on the characters themselves and more on whatever the fans want to see. I say this about fandom in general, btw, not ALNST in particular- in my experience with nsfw (fanfic anyways) in fandom, is that a lot of it comes down to writer preference rather than the actual characters themselves. It's literally playing with dolls and this isn't necessarily a bad thing! It's pretty much what fan content is for, right? It's just something that doesn't sit super well with me and it's something I don't really understand- if you want to make a specific dynamic, why not just make ocs that can similar or the same personalities as the characters that you enjoy and yet their dynamic fits with what you want.

Like overall when it comes to my opinions (and these are opinions, preferences if you will), I might as well be up front- when it comes to the ships that are common in the ALNST fandom, I think that while mizisua and hyunamizi definitely switch, out of mizisua? Sua is the top imo. on the other hand, I think that it would be a lot more interesting if either hyunamizi were switch-centric or Mizi topped, just because of what that would say about her relationship growth as well as her character growth. With hyunaluka (which is not a ship that I enjoy but I respect those that do obviously) I think Hyuna tops mostly. With ivantill, I see Ivan as a bottom and Till as the top. Sometimes they switch, no one is exclusively one or the other- and I am fully in support of them being switches because I believe most relationships are fluid and have the inherent capacity for switching, top/bottom is about preference but I do think it's rare. I don't know, smut can be part of the relationship to me and the dynamic when it comes to sexual encounters is important to me with a couple.

I don't know, maybe it's because I'm one of those people where my headcanons have to be related to the text somehow (and I don't say this in a way that's derogatory to people who don't have that- honestly I kind of admire you guys, it seems freeing. I'm just extremely autistic about this) but idk the way people intrepret Ivan in the ALNST fandom is super interesting. This is mainly going to be talking about ivantill because to be perfectly honest, I think people are weirder about mlm ships than they are about wlw ships, when it comes to their characterization? But I haven't read as much wlw nsfw so I can't fully speak to this. But when it comes to Ivantill, I have found some people who's opinions I love. Some people I agree with even if I don't agree with everything. But then there are some folks that are so out there like I wanna study you guys underneath a microscope y'all are so peculiar. yeah yeah he's King Yaoi the Third, he's tall dark and handsome, whatever. he's a little freak, I want to put him in a jar and shake him up, I understand, but at the same time sometimes the reading comprehension with people seems not so bueno.

In the fandom overall, (not just on tumblr dot com) people like him as top and I think that, to a degree, that is supported by the text. At least, some of the additional art from Vivinos/Qmeng, that’s supported

(^ the amount of horny comments on this image *sighs*)

But for me? I don’t like that as much (even though I’ve read some fanfic with it that I liked just fine.)

This is because of the way that this interpretation of their relationship feeds into that surface level analysis of both Ivan and Till's character? Ivan is the violently jealous lover, the one who watches from afar and seethes with envy, he’s the unfeeling pretty boy who only loves one person, he’s willing to do whatever it takes to keep that person. Till is the tsundere, the person who plays at strength but weakens at the first touch of someone stronger, easily flustered and even easier to cow into submission- but the thing is? We know that's not true for either of them, it's not supported by their backgrounds, their other actions, the context of their trauma. which makes that characterization super funny (to me) when this series is kind of about peeling back the edges of outward perception, with Mizi, Ivan, Luka and Hyuna especially.

While top/bottom isn't necessarily a power dynamic, when in the context of certain relationships, it can definitely take on the connotations of power. In Ivan and Till's relationship, the person who has the power is Till.

Out of the two of them, Ivan is not the person with the power and that's honestly the main issue that I have with the way that people portray him. In the top Ivan fics that I actually like, he's not the one with the power, he is only where he is because Till wanted them to get this far, he is at Till's mercy and he's loving it. The issue I take with those who portray him as domineering and controlling is that he doesn't try to control Till in canon. He might have concocted the incident with the wagyein and Mizi but after that? Ivan isn't trying to force Till into anything, he isn't controlling the situation, he isn't even trying to get Till to do anything but react. Ivan would do anything that Till wanted him to, no questions asked. For those who take the possessive angle with Ivan, the problem I have is that Ivan has no desire to own Till. He's obsessed with Till, yeah, but it's in the way that you love your favorite band- you love them to bits, you listen to all of their songs, you go to a concert, you have their merch- but you would still respect their choices, right? You would be disappointed if they decided to break up but you wouldn't force them to get back together. That's the difference between Ivan's obsession and Luka's- Luka thinks that he deserves Hyuna's affection in exchange for loving her (it's transactional), whereas Ivan is under no illusion that he is entitled to Till's affections.

On the flipside, when Till is portrayed as the tsundere who cares but refuses to show it because of his pride, well, that one's a little tougher because the main problem is execution. Till does really care about people but his affection isn't shown out of a matter of pride- he shows his affection for Mizi quite freely, after all, if he was really worried about vulnerability, I feel like he might be a little more conservative with his adoration. Often times, he doesn't show his care for people clearly because he doesn't really know how, defaulting to blushing and stuttering, gifts and acts of service to get his point across. He's not a super verbal-affection oriented guy and I think this is actually portrayed pretty well in the gen fics but not so much in smut because it's not as applicable lmao (comes with the territory ig). When Till is written as really timid, fumbling, innocent (@bluemoonscape called it woobifying), I hate that with a passion because he might fumble and he might get shy sometimes but he is not a pushover. He is not meek and if he doesn't like something, he'll voice his complaints, he'll let you know. I mean why else would he yell at Ivan in their version of My Clematis when Ivan gets too close? Admittedly, Ivan doesn't listen, lost in his monologue, and Till kind of just accepts it- but I am certain that if they were even intimate with each other, that Till would object were he uncomfortable and Ivan would listen. Like, whether Ivan was top or bottom, if Till's not having a good time? Ivan is no longer having a good time. Ivan's pleasure is very much contingent on Till's pleasure, at least, in my mind.

That's all the characterization centered stuff and kind of the reason why I think their relationship just works better with this dynamic *but* one of the biggest reasons it's a preference for me that Ivan bottoms is because of the inherent nature of that dynamic- it's a lot harder to end up fucking someone unwillingly than it is to get fucked by someone. There's a far greater likelihood of reciprocated feelings or at least, consent, when it comes to this version of their relationship and that's what I prefer because I really do think that they love each other.

(tagging @atrophiedemotion because I asked him if he wanted to be and he said yes! Blue is already tagged above too so all of the known interested parties have been notified :D love you guys)

#alien stage #alnst #alnst analysis #ivantill #hyunamizi #mizisua #alnst ivan #alnst till #rocktalks #finally finished this Blue!! hope it lives up to expectations lmao

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