#F*** THE AMATONORMATIVITY

[ahopefulbromantic]

Everything I do in life is to glorify God and to fight the concept of amatonormativity

[saturnniidae]

Shout out to Sweet tooth for having strong male-female friendships that end in tragedy but remain completely platonic as well as little to no romance throughout the entire show

[lenasai]

"you can't say these characters are only friends when they clearly have a more deep and meaningful connection" allos shut up forever

[walkingstackofbooks]

The word "queerbait" definitely needs to be put on a higher shelf.

I've just seen someone on Facebook try to argue that Lower Decks (!!!) queerbaited us by having Mariner and Jennifer break up, rather than giving us "good" representation like Discovery had of a normal, married couple who happened to be gay...

DUDE. MY DUDE.

✨ NO ✨

[artemx746]

Can somebody write a soulmate or hanahaki au where the concept isn't extremly amatonormative?

Thanks

[averinna]

I suddenly felt like ranting about m/f friendship, comphet and amatonormativity and was too lazy to retype it here

[andiloveyoutooangel]

guy who has never hosted a muIti-animator project a day in xis life aND WHO IS ACTIVELY NOT IN THE SELFSHlP COMMUNITY YET BECAUSE HIS BLOG WILL NEVER BE FINISHED: oh it would be so cool to host a seIfship muIti-animator project for the community to Everybody's Falling In Love by *repeat repeat

[violet-2084-turkish-warrior]

(Gathered some tags because i love them with my little additions)

- I love found family and i love the inherent romance of a really good friendship,found family and even sometimes romance (when ıt's well written) is one of my fave dynamics though. But yeah,sometimes people ARE very close friends. Characters 'just' being friends isn't some kind of downgrade! friendship is important too!!! İl

- i am sorry but romance is frequently the least interesting way to read a relationship (generally, yes i have ships too yes there are romantic relationships i love in media, but i am more sucker for frinedships,platonic and familial relationships) What rlly pisses me off is when ppl think they have "proof" that the ship is canon because they were "affectionate" bruh ur not affectionate with ur friends? U never felt like you'd fight the universe for your friends?? Your heart doesn't literally swell with fucking affection upon seeing your friends? They don't light up your life??? These things aren't reserved for lovers but for people you love, like ship whoever tf u want idc but stop shoving it down everyone's throat and claiming it's canon, it's legit so annoying. NOT EVERYTHING IS A GODDAMN SHIP.

- "There's no way THATS platonic look at how they look at eachother!!!". Ill shoot you with a gun. Ships are fun but also non-romantic character dynamics have so much to offer please.Making characters' interactions solely all about romantic love/fucking is so much amatonormative...Sorry not sorry. And they were roommates" YEAH SOMETIMES THEY JUST ARE HOMIES. Just let friends be friends. People are able to have relationships outside of romantic and sexual relationship y'know?

- One of my favorite dynamics of ALL TIME is Ride Or Die For My Bestie. Two characters who LOVE EACHOTHER past blood and bodily harm for themselves. But who ARE NOT romantically entwined friends who would BURN THE WORLD for each other; just because they CARE.

- Rivalries are a thing too,enemies (enemies who stay enemies particularly)as well. No not 'rivals/enemies to lovers' fucking LISTEN to me. Sometimes people hate each other without it turning into romance. No, it's not fun and hot when they do kiss or fuck.

- And if you insist that you consider the characters friends only,pople say fandom culture is dying. Like fandom is not just shipping. In fact when a fandom becomes only about shipping it gets real toxic. You can like a dynamic and not consider it romantic or found family. (The world won't end just because your fave ship isn't canon,i promise.)

forcing every character into romance or found family ruins character discussion imo

[redysetdare]

I kinda wish that "oh they don't know they are dating yet lol" was used less as a joke because while it can be funny to think about people not recognizing their obvious feelings it also shows a major issue with amatonormativity and believing certain ways people interact with each other can only be read 1 way. It shoves relationships into a box and assumes the people in their own relationship don't know any better and so can't possibly label it correctly.

"they say they are friends but obviously they just don't know they're dating yet!" Assumes that 1. Friendship is less than romance. 2. That the way these people act with each other has to be romantic and any other interpretation is wrong including the people who are interacting own interpretations of their relationship. 3. Assumes you, a third party observing the relationship you are not part of, know more and better than the people in the relationship and thus have authority to put a label on said relationship.

Do you see the problem here? Do you understand how fucked up it is to constantly be told your relationship is something it's not. Do you understand how rude it is to undermine people's own ability to properly label their own relationships. It does not matter if YOU think they are dating. If they say they are friends then they are F R I E N D S.

The thing Abt relationships is that all parties in the relationship have to agree with what it is. If one says they are dating and the other says they are not, then they are not dating and they will never be until both agree on that face. Simple as that.

[cleverpaws]

the solution to the amatonormative problem of assuming every single boy + girl friendship is actually some sort of romantic thing is not actually doing the same thing to m/m and f/f friendships tbh

[twyisontheline]

What if Alastor did try to fall in love with Vox

Thought to share an old radiostatic fluffyangsty headcanon... features internal-angst-about-his-aromanticism!Alastor

CW internalised arophobia

Alastor has never felt romantic attraction or feelings towards someone, in life or death. Now, with how strong amatonormativity is, he did try. He knew (thought) he was supposed to. It never worked. He reached the conclusion that he is fucked up. When he starts killing people, it almost makes sense - he's a psychopath, a monster, it must be related to not being able to love how other people do, how he should. How his mom would want him to love. He feels shame and guilt, even if he tries to push it all back down and tell himself that others are weak because of their feelings and it is something he would never want.

And it is something he doesn't want. But society tells him it makes one's life complete and makes you happy and fulfilled and he wonders. Is he broken in a way that prevents him from experiencing something so important and special?

Then he dies, and overall, life gets kinda easier. In the whole depravity and fucked-upness of Hell, there isn't an ideal happiness to wonder about. There isn't a society wanting you to marry and have kids and be normal and quaint. He can embrace being 'fucked up'.

Then he meets Vox. And slowly, the TV Demon finds a place in his heart. It's not unusual - Alastor does feel affection and platonic love, he knows he is able to feel that. And it has never been an issue that he doesn't feel romantic love, since none of his friends has ever wanted that kind of relationship with him.

Until it becomes an issue. When he realizes that Vox has feelings for him. Feelings that are romantic. That kind of love that he, Alastor, is not able to feel. And this opens the wound again. His fucked-upness could very well make him lose Vox. He doesn't want to lose their friendship - Vox gets him and spending time with him is pleasurable in an unique and special way, and he is not risking it. (He has found something special, regardless of it not being what society says it should.)

So he thinks: "I can make myself love him." He forced himself to be many things in his life and death, he won't let a weakness, a fault, a lack-of-ability, be an obstacle. He is not the weak powerless boy he once was in life. He is the Radio Demon. He takes what he wants. If learning to feel romantic love is what he needs to do to obtain what he wants, he'll do it.

So he tries, and lies to himself a bunch of times in the process, but eventually, he realizes that he is failing. And he sees it as that: a failure. So the mix of shame and guilt is back, like an emotional flashback from his human days that mixes with the shame of not being able to do something. Of being powerless in front of his own faults.

Fluff ensuring after all the angst could be that he finally confesses all this to Vox in a mental breakdown scenario - cause we know Alastor loves to freak out dramatically when he feels powerless - and Vox is like: "Man, calm down, it's not that big of a deal. I am not exactly thrilled at the idea you don't reciprocate my feelings but the idea you have to fake stuff with me and you tried so hard to be something you are not is even more upsetting. ...Plus kinda flattering, honestly, but let's not digress. What i am saying is, you don't have to do it. I am not going to end our friendship over it." And actually, realising that Alastor did all that just not to lose him, it’s more than flattering – it is proof of how deeply Alastor cares for him and loves him, even if his love is platonic. Vox doesn't need more.

And also, while Alastor has no idea that being aromantic is something that exists as a queer identity, Vox, unlike Alastor who doesn't pay attention to most of Sinners cause he lists them as not-entertaining-enough and avoids any place that has a even remotely sexual-relatedness, actually goes out and talks to people and did talk to people while figuring out he was queer. So we can insert here a speech by Vox about sexual/romantic orientation not being an illness etc etc with a bit of backstory about Vox being queer in the fifties and then dealing with his internalised homophobia after his death.

[electraslight]

do you ship lunter and/or do you mind people interpreting your art as such?

reposting a rant on twitter, sorry for the annoyed tone, its not at you:

I'm no longer going to be qualifying all my art with "not a ship" bc who the hell cares. You project your own meaning onto my work, I don't feel like I should have to add a disclaimer about a perfectly OK ship. Luz and Hunter to me are incredibly close, and while I don't see it as romance, yk what? I can get why someone would see it that way, I'm just extremely picky about ships lol. I still like lumity and prefer Luz and hunter platonically but I also feel like while lumity is groundbreaking their are reasons to dislike it (i think the thing about amity actively pursuing willow to bully her for years with no peer pressure to do so was forgotten far too fast and it kind of taints the ship for me, although i still like it a lot) and ship something else that aren't homophobia, and honestly, a lot of arguments against Luz being shipped with men are very biphobic to me. Oh, you think Luz isn't real representation if she dates a man? how progressive of you. same thing with hunter being bi. I think also the whole push to frame them as siblings no matter what is very amatonormative (if thats the right word); you think the only two relationships people can have are family and dating? how verrrrry progressive of you. I do think it's pretty funny that the most dead dove do not eat ship in this fandom is a perfectly fine het ship, but i also think a lot of people's hatred against it veers into some strange biases.

The only thing i ship hardcore in TOH is Raine and Eda (at this moment, im a notorious flip flopper), I'm not as engaged with the kid's love lives and I personally dont ship hunter w anyone bc i think its weird that he had a romance subplot that took up time that could have been used to explore his friendships/inner dialogue/ also i think willow and gus's friendship was mega downplayed in favor f romance BUT. I think you can take whatever you want from my art, and i encourage u to do so. Ship wars are stupid and I hope people feel safe on my page to feel how they feel.

Anyway, thank you for your ask!! take care of yourself and thank you for letting me rant

[awesomestarfighter]

I Should Have Known Better Then To Debate My Brother On Star Wars But I Did It Anyway

That's a lengthy way to start a post, I know, but I'm in a very riled up mood right now.

I remember the first time I argued with him about this. Our family did a rewatch of the Star Wars series (prequels than originals) at my request (and I usually never get emotional, so they were very concerned when I started crying my eyes out during Order 66 and asking if we should stop) and afterwards we talked.

Since I'm an avid Pro Jedi fan, there was a lot of arguing about 'The Jedi could have done this/should have done this!'. A bit with my family, but mostly with my brother since we're an argumentative pair and he's the only one who's watched extra materials such as TCW to further why the Jedi failed/should have done more.

We had to agree to disagree, so it ended there. Now here I am years later, having already talked to him about why glorifying this particularly abusive M/F is not peak romance or good writing, what defines bad writing, and general amatonormativity, and since I'm back in a SW swing, I thought about bringing it up to him, hoping he'd gotten a little more flexible since the last time we talked about it.

Clearly, I was too optimistic to think that.

Cue the usual tangent of (which I've already seen from. . . So many fans):

-The Jedi should have known Palpatine was a Sith.

-They should have treated Anakin better.

-They should have made him a Master.

-They shouldn't have given him that advice about death.

-Obi-Wan wasn't ready for a Padawan.

-They should have investigated Sifo-Dyas's murder.

-They should have investigated more.

-That's just the way the story is written and how the characters would react in real life, so of course Filoni is a good viewpoint on the Jedi.

. . . And just the general, 'they should have done more' statement that's been uttered countless times before.

I tried to point out the flaws in this way of thinking, I really did.

-It's established right in TPM that the Sith have been extinct for a very long time, and they verbally acknowledge that they don't know whether the one killed was the Master of the Apprentice, so it wasn't like they just up and forgot about the enemy that could still be out there. And it's literally stated in the very next movie that their ability to use the Force has been diminished, so it's not like they could have seen the Sith in plain sight in the force. Minor note, I know Force Signatures are mentioned a lot in fanon, but I don't remember anything like that ever being mentioned in canon (I know there's Legends but that's a separate continuity). With all that to keep in mind, why would they think he was a Sith? We have a different view of things because we're the audience, but they don't! Even though they didn't magically know he was the Sith Lord, that doesn't mean they're blind to his dealings or the corruption within the Senate, unless I completely hallucinated the part where the Jedi Masters were on their way to arrest Palpatine even before they learned he was a Sith Lord.

-Questioning a kid to see how he would respond to your ways of life is not being nice enough apparently (people can debate about his trauma and the authorial intent all day, but the basis is that the Jedi are not supposed to be framed as the bad guys). Apparently adopting him and treating him as a part of their family just isn't enough. Clearly, they should have coddled him even more, maybe then he wouldn't have murdered them down to the last child! (This is sarcasm because they never treated him differently or anything, even the Chosen One thing is barely brought up, and all his darkest moments are ones the Jedi were never made aware of). I know people will just say to put him in therapy because I've seen them say that many times before, but the truth is that he's already in therapy with the Jedi, he just doesn't absorb any of it because he doesn't want to.

-Yeah, because an adult throwing a temper tantrum when he's been appointed to a leading authority by a shady government leader who should not have any authority over their organization isn't sketchy as fuck, that response alone proves he WAS not ready, because he still didn't understand what the Jedi were about, much less mastery of himself. My brother at least admitted that was a good point when I outlined it, so score for me, I guess.

-People give Yoda grief all the time for his advice, but they always seem to forget that, firstly, Anakin is asking this during a war they've been fighting for three years, one they've lost many friends and family to, and secondly. . . Anakin was really fucking vague when he brought this forward. He doesn't even specify who he's talking about isn't a fellow Jedi, clone, or otherwise (And I can't help but draw a parallel to how he didn't tell Obi-Wan about his visions of Shmi and people will blame Obi-Wan when Anakin's the one who can't bother to properly fucking communicate) and he doesn't listen because it's not what he wants to hear. He doesn't just want to save Padme; he wants to cheat death because he's possessive and greedy and doesn't want his loved ones to ever leave him. Yoda's advice was actually very useful, but since when has Anakin ever listened to good advice? Once again, my brother admitted that was a good point, so the second score went to me.

-I know fandom loves to portray Obi-Wan as this self-hating mess that's barely keeping it together (who also does a lot of medic dodging for some reason?). . . But that's not who he is in canon? The real Obi-Wan is controlled and capable, and he was a young adult when he was Knighted, not a kid, who went on to become the youngest member of the Council when he became a Master. It wasn't like he was left to teach Anakin alone, because he had the Order, and they're canonically big on communal teaching. Even just in the movies, we frequently see that Obi-Wan's the one who reaches out to Anakin and Anakin's the one who shuts him out. Obi-Wan was a great teacher, Anakin was just a shit student.

-The Jedi learned about Sifo-Dyas's unauthorized role in the creation of the clone army literally right before the war broke out, so it wasn't like they were in a position where they could look more into it. Even before that, they were under the impression that he died during a failed peace negotiation. My brother still said this even though there was a literal WHOLE ASS ARC IN TCW WHERE THEY INVESTIGATED HIS DEATH. He watched that arc to, and he still says they should have investigated his death even when they literally did. I have no words for such a contradictory way of thinking.

-I know it's easy to say stuff like that, but Star Wars isn't written for adults who want all the messy bits, but for kids for a good vs evil story, so of course investigation stuff is shoved to the side. Even in TCW where we do see them investigating, they're hampered by the Senate, by Palpatine, by the war, and by the narrative. Even ignoring that, Anakin literally said in ROTS that Palpatine was the Sith THAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR, so that means they were investigating even though we didn't see it onscreen.

-Filoni. . . God just thinking about him makes me angry. I could write a whole essay on how he's twisted the narrative for Star Wars so badly, and I hate essays, but plenty of people have already done it better, so I won't.

-But still, I think it's hilarious that I can point out certain things he's written terribly (TCW, TOTJ, TTB, and Ahsoka) to show that he doesn't like the Jedi, and my brother is still saying, 'well that's just how the story is written and how the characters will react so he doesn't really hate the Jedi with that sort of evidence and blah blah blah.'

-Of course, for TCW, my brother brought up that stupid arc where AsHoKa iS pErSeCuTeD - I just think it's funny how, with trying to make his special oc look good and the Jedi Council unlikable, Filoni accidentally made her unintentional unsympathetic and made the dOgMaTiC lEaDeRsHiP unintentionally sympathetic. And of course, who could forget the infamous s7 moment of her not being fair to Obi-Wan? I know people will say she's a teenager and she's confused and she's still feeling betrayed - but the thing is, that doesn't hold up because the narrative never follows up on it. It's not a personal flaw of hers, it's solely there to frame Ahsoka (and Bo-Katan/the Mandalorians by proxy) as right and Obi-Wan (and the Jedi Council/Order by proxy) as wrong. I'm sure there are more examples that can be noted, but those are definitely two of the biggest offenses in my book.

-Tales of the Jedi wasn't even about the Jedi, it was about two specific individuals who LEFT the Jedi. One who went on to become invincible/immortal/a sanctimonious prick/even more of a mouthpiece then she already was, the other went on to become the undisputed head of an enemy who went full throttle on genocide, slavery, and war crimes. Mace's treatment and Yaddle's treatment was more poorly veiled racism and even more poorly veiled Jedi hate. And of course, the super special training from Anakin that allowed Ahsoka to survive Order 66 unlike those useless unprepared Jedi who were too soft on their kids - but really just made him look like an incredibly abusive parent. Frankly, while I do hate Anakin and can see him pushing too hard as in character, even I can see that it could have been written a lot better than it was. Tales of the Jedi was a fucking joke because it should have been titled 'Tales of The Super Special Creators Pet OC and the Asshole Who Falls And Spearheads A War', and if we ever get Jedi content that is actually positive for them without the usual criticisms coming up (Kenobi's the only one so far that's come the closest) I'll be throwing a fucking party.

-Of course, I have to point out TBB's whitewashing, consistently carried over from TCW except even whiter, though I forgot to mention how that show just completely fucking forgot the Jedi existed. Though frankly, I wouldn't want them to be mentioned in the utter waste of time that TBB is.

-Ahsoka was made into even more of a mouthpiece in her show then she already was. I didn't even watch Rebels in its entirety because I don't care for it, but even with some of the more frustrating decisions with her in that span of time she never said the Order wouldn't have fallen if they had just brought in more non-Force Sensitives to train them into being Force Sensitive (another part of canon that Filoni has fucking taken a hammer to) singing Anakin's praises after she's 'saved' by him (though even in Rebels it got pretty egregious how she just fucking abandons the Rebellion and the Jedi because she won't leave him again) just being a general fandom anti on how the Order was at fault for everything and Anakin was actually predestined to become a Sith (instead of defying his destiny by attacking Mace and siding with Palpatine as per Word of God) so everything he did was justified. All written and directed by Filoni, just as the other pieces where he's had narrative control will label the Jedi as arrogant, as forgetful, as unworthy, as not ENOUGH. And as soon as he can, he shoves them aside for characters who are 'to cool to be a Jedi, a cooler Jedi than those useless old Order jerks who spent too much time playing politics and being too stringent because they were cautious rule followers and not plucky rebels and weren't loving enough to poor widdle Anakin and -'

Though frankly my brother had some pretty ludicrous takes in general. There was this whole tangent we had about how since Rex removed his chip and voided death, that makes him gray/puts him in a gray zone. I just bluescreened at that, because while I've never cared for morally gray characters/storytelling, a character stepping out of their slated place in the narrative so obviously isn't gray it's not even funny, it's infuriating. While I know a part of me being a writer is what helps me look at stories more critically, it still makes me feel so confused how people will just take in bad writing or come up with bullshit takes like this. Whatever happened to thinking critically for the good of storytelling?

. . . I don't usually write my own posts (even though I'm usually better at wording things than actually voicing an argument as it started with my brother) because I prefer to just reblog stuff on my blog, I wrote this primarily as a vent post because my argument with my brother really got me stirred up, but I've been in a salty sw mood lately so it was kind of cathartic to get this out.

Also, if any Jedi anti or fan comes at me with 'but actually the Jedi should have -' no. Please just don't. I always try to tag stuff properly so people who won't agree will know what my blog themes are about, I'm never in the mood for the run of a mill gotcha takes that infest this fandom and I will not hesitate to block you if you come onto my post for that.

[rosetyler42]

Wanted to draw some happier Stuff with Drac, Ericka, and Mavis. I like the idea of Ericka NOT being jealous of Martha but rather curious. I like her actually trying to get Drac to talk about her MORE, both to help his grief, keep her memory around and show she's not trying to replace Martha in Mavis' life, she'd basically be like "This person is important to my family and thus is important to me." And...it makes Drac and Mavis happier. It also shows that remarrying doesn't mean forgetting the first love or that they aren't important any more. Which I feel is a big reason HT3 and Ericka's character is hated. (Amatonormativity and dislike of remarriage strikes again!)

I kinda agree with @black-ak9 and @hotelt-resurrection. There's no animosity between Ericka and Martha (aside from Ericka disliking being negarively compared to her by others from the outside.) They'd actually get along swimmingly in a Morticia/Debbie or Morticia/Ophelia kind of way.

On a SADDER note, The 2nd kind of came from a dream in part. But basically, I wanted to Draw Eeicka struggling to comfort Drac and came up with the "Drac's having a bad grief day, kinda beating himself up a bit, and Ericka wants to comfort him but is held back thinking as a human who's family has hurt him so much - not to mention she herself having tried to kill him, she's not sure she has the RIGHT to." I like Ericka comforting Drac as they're both anxious traumatized beans but sometimes... their brains being mean to them is fun too.

Not bad considering these are the most detailed Martha drawings I've done and my problems drawing small. XD

Bonus: On a funnier note, I imagine Ericka fighting with her inner demons in her head at some point like that "You ain't reason, you a little bitch." comic. XD

@lovelylivelyv @ssleeping-in-a-coffin @drericka @ebevkisk @deathfangirl9 @drericka-prompts @drericka-is-lyfe-blog @drerickastan @erickadracula @erickaanddraculasblog @erickaanddracula @erickadracula @ericka4ever @neo-storm @kittyball23 @twinklecupcake @serial-serializednovelreader @deathfangirl9 @f-mhoteltransylvaniacomicseries @wingingfromthezing

[australet789]

Something else i want to comment that has been bothering me

Several fans wanting Adrienette to break up because of Marinette hiding Gabriel's secret

And that's, im sorry, stupid

Miraculous is a lot of things but they do amazing by battling certain tropes, specially for amatonormative couples

And you are telling, after 5 seasons of giving us a very healthy m/f relationship, that you want them to become a boring romcom Christmas couple?

Are you serious? You want them to break up for Gabriel???

I understand wanting angst, i love it too. Hurt/comfort my beloved. But you can develop Adrienette without having to separate them.

It's called talking.

It's called "hey, Adrien did the same by not telling Marinette he was going to be forced to travel to London until the last fucking second"

It's called "we dont want Gabriel to fucking win when he is 6 meters under ground and should stay right there rotting"

In this case, yes, i want ML to subvert expectations and dont follow the cliche route.

Let these kids be

[thearoacemoon]

Did you say "f*CK amatonormativity" today?

Do it now. It's cathartic.