#Exandria Pantheon

[biblicallyaccuratesandworm]

Something neat I just realized.

Moradin is the only one of the Prime Deities to have no significant connexion to a player character before Divergence.

Avandra had FCG, Bahamut had Braius, Corellon was S.I.L.A.H.A. (and was indirectly connected to the Clay), Erathis made The Emissary, Ioun chose Scanlan as her chosen and was (sort of) followed by Beau and Sprigg, Kord saved Yasha, Melora had both Caduceus and Orym and became Asha during Downfall, Pelor chose Vex, was the (conflictual) god of Deana and was incarnated in Ayden, Sarenrae obviously had Pike, Sehanine was worshiped by Molly and the Raven Queen is probably the most important goddess in CR due in part to being Matt's favourite.

And even without counting connexion to the players characters, almost all of them appeared in person or had a significant role to play at one point or another through the three campaigns.

Except for Moradin.

The God of Creation, the proud father of dwarves is basically the only Prime Deities that never appeared a single time before the final of campaign 3

Of course the spot was kept untouched for Matt. Matt who many times expressed his love for dwarves. Matt who spent years carefully crafting this world out of love for his friends. Matt who was always cursed with terrible rolls for his PC but was seeminlgy blessed with great luck for Garen despite him literally being a lvl 0 character.

Brennan really made him the most perfect gift.

Edit: Also, how fucking neat that Garen hails from Uthtor, the ruins from which served as the foundation for Kraghammer, the very first city Vox Machina visited in episode 1 of the stream.

[californiannostalgia]

Opal has seen carnage and violence and she has perpetuated that carnage and violence, and she didn't mind it that much.

Opal: She was very small. She asked me to come find her. I said yes. For Cyrus.

A part of Dorian knows. For a moment, the two of them are dialed in on some unspeakable idea.

[shorthaltsjester]

obsessed with the fact that bell's hells won that fight explicitly because of their reliance on the gods. imogen and laudna both vocally saying 'thank you matron' at the beginnings of that combat as they use new skills or spells they've refreshed, orym wielding his sword, braius wielding his divine power, the entire party instilled with a hero's feast prepared by a cleric of the wildmother, imogen using power granted by the arch heart to bring down predathos -- an entity that has been described as welcoming her home, offering a womb she has longed to return to, her as its kin -- in imagery evoking the moment where the gods too decided to turn their backs on their home when faced with the monstrosity they were tied to, that they'd help bring about (something something, the arch heart gave mortals magic and imogen gave predathos its vessel). and the fact that bell's hells has slowly grown more reliant on the idea that predathos does not hunger for mortals -- something they in fact scoffed at when it came from liliana and ludinus' mouths -- predathos took several of them in his maw and tried to consume them.

viewing the story as one of a group of people predominantly blinded to the reality of their situations by the fog of their traumatized feelings -- as i've chosen to do for the sake of my sanity listening to them go on and on about gods that never gave them a lick in the same breath that they complain that the gods have too much power -- it is so extremely poetic that orym cut down ludinus with a sword blessed by the wild mother only for bell's hells to retread the path ludinus set up for himself. it is extremely ironic for a group of people who have implicitly raised complaints about the inherent manipulation that comes with the god's existence to come up with a plan that is explicit manipulation, demanding the gods become mortal or die [which to be clear, extremely interesting plan with interesting consequences that would be compelling to see! absolutely dogshit reasoning skills and moral assessment. but it is continually ASTOUNDING to me that a campaign that gets treated by some as the height of critical role's sociopolitical philosophical exploration features so many PCs who struggle (and not in the fruitful, developmental way but in the head-in-hands, can this student talk to the prof during office hours so I don't have to feel the second hand embarrassment of them making it obvious they haven't ever attended a previous lecture or done the class readings way) with ideas found in any first year philosophy course].

and to be clear this is not me devaluing the role of bell's hells in actually fighting the fight -- but all they've done is the same thing the gods were already doing, keeping predathos sealed, except now its in a volatile-at-best mortal who is on borrowed time re: being lost once again to its power. the only suggestion the hells have that this might be a justified and right course of action is the support of two gods -- one who has proven themself to be okay with the idea of death until it actually arrives before and the other one who is the only being on record who actually chose to be a deity -- out of a much larger pantheon, and their personal inclinations to agree with the ideology of a man who they have claimed to ardently disagree with but it turns out that was just because of his methods, I guess. scattershotting catalysts for change and hoping that change results in a Better World just. on its own (almost like. idk. fate) that you haven't even suggested practical (I'd even take theoretical ones atp) methods to achieve beyond Get Rid of a bunch of beings who are involved in actually extreme amounts of metaphysical and magical infrastructure isn't actually a course of action, its a course of chaos, and that is in fact worse than things staying the way they are if 'the way things are' that you keep referring to has only been shown to, currently, be that you and your friends feel sad and a little miffed that the gods you haven't offered anything to are only willing to do things for you when you serve them. unlike you, a group notorious for the way you do things for people you don't know without asking anything in return (this is sarcasm, if that wasn't clear).

anyway, I will continue to be frustrated by the lack of grounding for either (a) bell's hells having actually incisive and contextualized criticisms of the gods (either their own or from the actual mouths of the 'little guys' they are allegedly fighting for) or (b) more engagement with the fact that bell's hells as a party are not interested in making the morally right choice, they are at Best looking for a morally neutral choice. that said, if I ignore the actual story c3 has portrayed, the last few episodes have been a great wrap-up to a story about how singleminded trauma can make you and how that can lead you to place where there's no longer any Good choices to make, only potentially satisfying ones, where the question of who to satisfy takes the reigns over what is best.

[venator-signum]

shoutout to haylie and topher, the two half-firbolg kids who are quite possibly the only exandrian demigods to ever exist

[transfem-octopus]

Part of what makes the fall of Aeor such a tragedy is that it didn’t need to happen this was not an inevitability. This didn’t need to happen the people of Aeor could have been saved and the gods came so close to saving them. As with all tragedies it was almost averted you can so easily see how things could have been different. Had the Somnoven not abandoned their people; had Selena not seeded the knowledge of how to build the Mallus Factorum in her people; had the Mageoceacy of Aeor never built the Mallus Factorum at all...

So many times people suffer because of the actions of their leaders and their rulers. The rich start the wars and the poor do the fighting and the dying. The wizards of Aeor thought they could rival the power of the gods and their people paid the ultimate price for their hubris.

The gods of Exandria have often been criticized as if they are socially constructed ruling class. But they’re not; the power of the gods stems from the fact that they are beings from a higher plane of existence who descended to Exandria to flee from Predathos. The gods are not a socially constructed ruling class but higher beings that must coexist with mortals. At once infinite beings beyond the power of mere mortals and people with hopes and dreams and fears and the weakness and fallibility that cones with personhood.

[helimir]

imagine the chaos when a bunch of teenage god-mortals who have either been living like celebrities or fleeing for their lives for a while show up on the bright queen’s doorstep like ‘please let us get consecuted 🥺 we know you don’t worship any of us and you despise one of us (we won’t tell you who 😘) but we really really want to keep living. we won’t steal your beacons or do anything blasphemous we pwomise 🥺🥺🥺’

[biblicallyaccuratesandworm]

The thing I really like about how Matt represents the gods in his setting is that he fully acknowledges how morally grey the concept of an actual, very real all powerful divinity is. In the real world, theology mixes with several layers of philosophy and psychology so studying the morality of god(s) is next impossible. But in a setting where clerics and paladin get to directly adress their god and receive an unambiguous answer, divine champions chosen by higher beings are granted powers by them and actual, undeniable, miracles take place, it's really hard to defend the morality of those all powerful gods that allow all the fuckery in the world happen. But gods in Exendria, even the good aligned ones, aren't a stand in for goodness. They're a standing for status quo. We may don't care for them, hell we may actually hate some of them, but they are, for all intent and purpose, the world as it is now, and even for gods haters, the Ruby Vanguard actions are frightening because it's a declaration of war against the status quo.

The arrogance of the Vanguard to also place holy symbols on those pikes elicited more of a feeling than it likely should have

I have a greater appreciation for the Goddesses and Gods that Matt has created than I thought

[danwhobrowses]

Well now that the dust has settled a bit on the C3 finale and wrap up, I do wanna throw out some suggestions for 10 one shots - in no particular order - which I feel like would be great and fun and narratively tied in with the characters.

EXU: Crownfall Premise: In the future events (circa 15 years or less after the Rites of Catatheosis) the Crown Keepers reunite to try and free Opal from the crown, with ominous word that Lolth's mortal form is close to reawakening their memories and bringing their friend back into her service. Notes: Potential guest cameos for some Bell's Hells members and Deni$e if Aimee wants to double up.

Bell's Hells Go to PopCon Premise: Set a few weeks after the Rites of Catatheosis, Bell's Hells go to PopCon in Rumblecusp to support Chetney - the guest of honour. An egg is up for grabs for Fearne as a side plot but the hired hunters after Chetney during their reunion in Jrusar are also lurking in the shadows, likely at the behest of a disgruntled and aggrieved shopkeeper upset with Chetney's newfound fame. Notes: Potential guest cameos for Deanna and FRIDA, maybe even a long lost Pock O'Pea relative? Also maybe some conflict with TravelerCon happening on the same day!

EXU: Apogee Premise: Set either during the events of the final battle or after, an opportunity arises to see what Deanna, FRIDA, Deni$e, and Prism are up to in their own mini-adventure. Notes: Possible additions for other PCs to join the group, maybe even Tary and/or Kingsley given their absence in the campaign or let Matt play an NPC-turned-PC like Dancer, Joe, Xandis, or Ryn while another DMs.

Bell's Hells vs the Nine Hells Premise: In the absence of their Lord, a power vacuum is happening in the Nine Hells, and in turn many devils are coming to collect on their pacts to gain an advantage at the head of the table. Bell's Hells go to the Hells in order to dismantle an alliance of devils intent on taking over and laying waste to the material plane in preparation for Asmodeus' return - and their own gain and favour. Notes: Potential involvement for Zerxus, also potential to free Fearne from her pact with Klask, Braius stuff since Azzy M made him a marked moo, and maybe even a little fallout from Ashton pissing off Tiamat - who was sealed in Avernus. Also a chance to reshape the Hells in a more homebrewed structure if so desired.

Bell's Hells: Infinite Possibilities Premise: Irritated by the constant surveillance on them over the years, Ashton finally accepts the Kryn Dynasty's 'invitation' to visit and be studied: but they're not going alone. Tensions are high among the Hells given the Bright Queen's reluctance in the finale to aid them in the ritual or in saving Ashton's life, but Luxon lore is desired by both parties, as are answers about Ashton themselves - and, for Bell's Hells, getting them out alive and in one piece. Notes: Potential to also involve Essek, and possibly free him from the Kryn's corsairs, and Verin for family lore. Might also be worth noting Chetney's 'deal' with Leylas regarding bringing Ashton to them dead or alive, and possibly stealing some beacons for Nana or just for fun/spite.

Bell's Hells: A Kick in the Shattered Teeth Premise: Able to confirm that Ludinus Da'leth is in the Shattered Teeth from Caleb and Beau's scrying, Orym calls upon Bell's Hells to finish off the cloned corpse of that crusty-ass ancient elf once and for all. Returning to the Shattered Teeth does however come with some environmental chaos and obstacles, and while Ludinus has been 'retired' since his first death he is by no means unprepared for these kinds of visitors. Notes: Potential return for Captain Novos (are they still ghosts now that the Strife Emperor is 'gone'?), and Jirana - and her Toad Belly Hut - one last chance to bring up Molaesmyr again while confronting Ludinus', hopefully dissatisfied, feelings on the gods still surviving.

Bell's Hells: Shadow of Sorrow Premise: Just as Ira forewarned, the Unseelie Court have set their sights on Fearne and the rest of Bell's Hells for the death of Sorrowlord Zathuda. Leading the charge is Yu Suffiad, given her prior knowledge and experience in dealing with them, but much like how Zathuda was willing to turn on the court for his own gains, many members of the antagonistic court have ulterior fey-like motives. Bell's Hells must stand their ground and play to their own trickery and chaos against the Unseelie's Uncanny Ambush, and find a way to end the order put against them. Notes: A chance to bring back Gloamglut - and for Fearne to get that inheritance she was curious about. More Seelie/Unseelie lore especially now the Moonweaver is 'gone', possibly Traveler shenanigans too via Braius and maybe some more stuff with Ira and/or Nana to aid in the chaos.

EXU: RedBlue Premise: Ruidians of all races have started traveling to the Blue Promise, and a ragtag group of Ruidians have joined together in search of adventure and personal discovery in this foreign-to-them world that's existed only in their dreams. Notes: A light and fun way to reframe Exandria and its culture through the lens of Ruidians, as well as introducing more races of Ruidus and their own culture.

EXU: Mortal Premise: Set decades or more after the rites, the gods once again reunite in mortal form. This time though not to fell a city, build a gate, or find a lost sibling, but to seek out an adventure in places unknown or previously out of their grasp. But things adverse to and obscured from gods are not entirely welcoming, and the Chained Oblivion still seeks to free itself from the Abyss. Notes: Would recommend not using the same gods seen in Downfall and Divergence, just for variety, some of the less fleshed out gods (maybe some more Betrayers?) would be better.

Wedding Bells (Hells) Premise: Laura Bailey will not be denied and a third wedding is on the cards. But chaos will always follow and Delilah has made a gambit for one last escape from her Soul Anchor at the most annoying time possible - a particular specialty of hers. Notes: If it were me I'd do a bait and switch and say the wedding setting is not the Imodna wedding, but the two have an opening to get a marriage ceremony in the episode anyway. But otherwise it is the 3 for 3 wedding episode, also a chance for the Hells to clean up nicely design-wise, and ofc cameos galore.

[quinn-of-aebradore]

So here’s my thought, because I don’t think the Archheart is wholly wrong about the gods needing to leave, but I think, as in all things, there’s nuance to that solution. Specifically, I don’t think all of them leaving at once is the best option.

I think the Archheart and whoever the second god is that wants to leave need to take the plunge and go off on their own. Because their argument hinges on this notion that mortaldom cannot grow with them still there, but by refusing to leave without the whole of their family beside them, they too are refusing to grow. To go off on their own and explore the cosmos for themselves. They are waffling on the choice of sticking with their family as they always have or leaving the home they found and made together, just as many of their siblings have waffled on their children VS their siblings. But the thing is, they (the Archheart plus one) know they want the latter choice—leaving—more than they want to stay (and as such stick w the family), so they want to force their family’s hand so they come with and they (Archheart plus one) can get their cake and eat it too.

Which is understandable! With all they’ve been through, all the family they’ve already lost, it makes sense that they don’t want to leave anyone else behind! But in order for them to grow, they need to. And I think, with time, if the Archheart and their fellow did leave, others would follow. Would see that the choice wasn’t as calamitous (heh) as they once feared it might be. Some would stay, because the world needs its constants—the sun, death, hope, nature—and because they care for their children too deeply to stray too far and that would be okay.

Staying close may well be as suffocating as the Archheart believes it to be, but then surely the inverse—severing that tie completely by all abandoning Exandria at once—must be just as harmful. There has to be balance; some stay, some go. Perhaps one day some even come back to visit. But the gods—the Archheart, their fellow, the rest—need to realize they can survive without each other too, just as they want to show mortals they can survive without them. They’re the same, after all.

[cringefaecompilation]

i do really think trying to reframe ludinus' motives as inherently noble from the start and insisting he trusted mortal people's inherent ability to survive without gods massively castrates him as a villain and detracts from the story matt is trying to tell. why have a story about the lowest caste "npc" characters saving the world if you're going to turn around and say, "but the person with the most privilege was the one who truly understood everything about oppression and loved them all secretly! r/humanityfuckyeah"

he could have helped anyone at any time with the amount of power he attained but refused to and instead moved to commit xenophobic hate crimes against the kryn and straight up be a culture vulture to ruidusborns. he told laudna to her face she would never truly understand oppression despite knowing she was victim to colonization from the briarwoods. he destroyed liliana emotionally, mentally, and almost physically and then said in front of her that he never trusted her and victim blamed her for him almost killing her. ludinus lost the plot decades ago and is running on fumes, something matt himself confirmed. he does not care anymore.

bell's hells having six billion arguments on what to do with the gods (which ngl looking back on, sort of are just them taking aloud about their opinions and then ending the conversation after everyone has said something more than anything) might have been a little arduous to some people, but their constant back-and-forth discussions at least showed they cared more about the feelings of other people. certainly more than ludinus, who decided only his feelings and trauma mattered, and he would do anything to prove himself right and be the unsung hero that he saw himself as.

[virgodev]

As a hardcore Corellon Larethian fan from the moment I read the deity’s canon 5e lore, I admit to have always been disappointed by how underrated they are.

Corellon is prideful, egotistic, cocky, simultaneously the deity with domains of Magic, Music, Arts, Crafts, Warfare, Poetry, Trickery and Knowledge. Their battles with Grumsh and his ex-wife Lolth are legendary. They have an organization called “Fellowship of the Forgotten Flower” which just realm hops to recover elven relics.

Seeing their representation in CR Downfall brings me so much joy! I understand that the Exandrian version of Corellon has differences with the canon 5e version of the Elven Prime Deity, but honestly just seeing them on my screen fills me with joy.

Abubakar does such an incredible job! I hope my elven prime deity daddy (genderfluid) starts getting more recognition now!

[californiannostalgia]

Critical Role Campaign 3 had:

Crown Keepers

Calamity and Avalir

The Shattered Teeth

Astronomer who found City on the Moon

shit parents and shit powers and kids who grew up figuring out love on their own regardless

Aeor and the grief of warring gods

patented sentient furniture

an Aeormaton healer who defeated a terrifying warlord via selfless, selfish sacrifice

the Day the World Stood Still because a Champion of Death still loved, even after all this time

Moon people getting immigration visas to their Blue Dream

Vox Machina

Mighty Nein

Bell's Hells

lonely witches who found each other and never stopped finding each other, in the city of spires, in a maze of ruins, in storming dreams and death's embrace

hopeful endings in a time when the real world is actually for real crashing and burning

What an epic story. That was incredible.

Love them very much. Is it Thusday yet?

[shorthaltsjester]

coming off the high of finishing the draft of the last of my exegetical/theory heavy chapters of my thesis and while i was writing i was thinking a lot about why applying real world political philosophies to exandria specifically tends to fall flat and like. even beyond the explicit treatment of things like homophobia as nonexistent and hegemony functioning wildly differently if it really actually exists in exandria as we conceptualize it in our actual world really boils down to the works that make up a lot of the roots of the leftist theory people apply to exandria. like obviously marx is a big guy, nietzsche has more influence than you’d think given his reputation as the internets (poorly interpreted) sad boy, and less people probably know the names of the critical theorists that came out of the frankfurt school but you’d know their ideas — and they all have their toes in countless leftist ideas today, whether their influence is explicit or not. what’s notable in all those theorists is something found in the argumentative and background work that they provide before the claims most people on the internet know re: the workers of the world uniting, god’s being dead, and the culture industry, whether in their previous work or just earlier in the same books that people have read the goodreads quotes of: first principles.

if you’re unfamiliar with the term, it’s just a philosophy word for basic proposition that cannot be deduced from a previous claim. And for a whole lot of works in the history of moral and political philosophy (as well as other less relevant branches), one of the most common first principles you could find was the proposition that god exists. so much of the work of philosophers who inform leftist theory has required them to do the work of either coming up with a different first principle and justifying it and/or providing justification for why first principles are in themselves a flawed notion. nietzsche was so impactful in his claim that god is dead because it targets the very notion that history and the philosophy in it was finding the proposition that god exists to be unsatisfactory if unsupported. marx then was only able to ground his historical materialism because that first principle re: god was able to be dismantled. critical theorists, like adorno for example, were only able to do their work in light of accepting that god is not something worth appealing to without justification. and the reason any of this is relevant to the fantasy world of a silly internet show where voice actors roll dice is because any leftist theory whose most foundational basis is the realization and gradual societal acceptance that the claim “god is real” could not be assumed but had to be given justification will always end up being unsatisfactory when it is applied to a world where “god is real” is not only factually true but is also societally accepted and the existence of those who might philosophize about the gods is a direct product of those gods’ existence.

this isn’t to say there can’t be insight granted by applying these theories anyway (looking at my blorbos and applying philosophical theories is my favourite hobby, just ask my thesis supervisor) nor is it to say that the risks of trying to apply these theories to exandria starts and ends with its failing to be philosophically apt — but there have been many great posts circulating re: the issues with viewing certain facets of exandria through an “it’s a colonialist metaphor” lens and many similar cases so i won’t dive in here. just pointing out that as a facet of the objective truth that can exist in a fictional world, especially a world established by gods (world here being a word that includes the existence of mortals), some of the foundational propositions of the philosophical arguments at work in those theories are rendered false in the exandrian context. but this also means that, if the gods leave exandria in some sense, i will have a very fun time unpacking a nietzschean interpretation of their absence. because i predict that though the gods will be dead/gone, his meaning of god being dead will Not be fulfilled since ostensibly the majority of exandria still looks to the gods in love and in doubt as providers of guidance, and i question how much their presence actually informs the depth of that dependence. anyway. that’s my philosophical enrichment for the night.

[somewhatsentientspellbook]

You ever think about how when the gods came to Exandria, they were amorphous light beings? But as they took on tangible forms, they were all like: human, human, dwarf, elf, horned human, elf - a bunch of bipedal humanoids

And then Bahamut and Tiamat stood over to the side and just:

FOUR LEGS, SCALES, HORNS, WINGS, TAILS, (and in Tiamat's case) FIVE FUCKING HEADS

[ohnohelpitsagain]

“why were they mean?? they were only directly threatened by a betrayer god’s followers, that betrayer god’s followers were also probably scared!”

maybe…. because they were directly threatened by a betrayer god’s followers and they were also probably…. scared idk??

like just a reminder that these institutions are not suddenly blameless just because this purple haired witch carries a god eater inside of her after a long line of extraordinarily nuanced situations

[natp20]

who's excited for the most extreme incident of fuck-around-and-find-out in exandrian history?