#European Language Translation

[katrium]

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[go-learn-esperanto]

One thing about being in translation is that you end up noticing how weird some things would sound if they were translated in a literal way into English.

Today the lady at the cafeteria asked me "Multibanco, princesa?" Which is an absolute hell to translate even though it contains just two words. What she was asking me was if I wanted to pay using the portable ATM machine. Then she addressed me as "princesa" which literally translates to princess.

And that's totally normal here but from what I understand of English the only situations you'd ever refer to an adult like me as princess would be if

You're flirting

You're joking or mocking the person you're addressing. It's a way of calling someone spoiled.

However in this case it meant that the lady saw me as someone younger than her and she wanted to be extra nice so instead of going to the more formal "menina" (miss) she went with a nickname that would denote some endearment. I'd say the closest thing in English would be the term "dear".

[eggmothsoup]

so I know that consuming native content is a good way to acquire a language, but does this extend to translated content? as in, things originally made/written in one language that has been translated into your TL? Im not sure if certain things would be 'off' or inaccurate in translated media, even though it's still (technically) made by and for natives (I think? I assume??)

[maranull]

watching vaati's new vid and he mentions a lot of 1.0 item descriptions, so far only using them as add ons to one or two theories

but I'm thinking, if the developers decided to remove those old descriptions, can we still rely on them as canon/reliable sources?

I don't have an answer, just asking

EDIT: nvm, later on he dismisses a 1.0 description for the one that came after

[solradguy]

Sol I gotta ask, when you read japanese, are you at the level where you can read it casually, or does understanding it still take effort? Because even though I've got the basic gist of my second language down, I still would struggle with picking up a novel and consuming it, actively translating the text in my brain takes so much extra effort than skimming words in english 🥲

If it's baby level I can read it just fine haha but longer stuff is impossible without Yomitan because there are just so... many..... kanji......... Picking up a physical novel or newspaper and being able to understand 100% of it is still beyond my skill level, but I am probably at least to a point where I could give like a vague summary of what's happening.

I'm not sure how many kanji I have memorized exactly... When I started the Begin translation a few years back I probably knew maybe 200 (what was I doing translating books at just 200 kanji?!?) and I'd be surprised if I knew less than 800 now, which is nearly a third of the recommended number needed to fully understand a newspaper (~2200). That's just kanji though, my actual vocabulary is a lot higher than that lol

I'd love to take an actual Japanese class some day... Self study has gotten me REALLY far but, like you, there are a lot of times where I have to translate it into English before it clicks with my brain, and I think I would be a lot more efficient at translating in general too if I had more professional studying. Maybe some day!!

[thewiglesswonder]

🔥 tfa Blitzwing

My hot take is that the actual fucking German language of the Indo-European language family does not exist on Cybertron or anywhere else except Earth. Accents are arbitrary at worst and correlated with Cybertronian colonies and cities at best and I am so fucking sick of seeing people pepper actual German into his dialogue like he's a native speaker.

This take brought to you hot from the fires of my irrational yet blazing rage.

[tutyayilmazz]

"The true legends are totally casual"

They're young, they're smart, and they're from Rome: A conversation with Måneskin, one of the world's most successful rock bands Interview: Giovanni di Lorenzo

Måneskin for Zeit Magazin. paywalled but you can access it like this 🤫 i google and deepl translated it and fixed some sentences as much as i could but i'm far from being able to judge the accuracy of it all so there may be mistakes. anyway, the full article is under the cut, i highly recommend it, it goes quite into depth!

When they play concerts in the USA, they wrap themselves in the Italian flag. But they wouldn't do that at home in Rome: Måneskin, one of the most successful rock bands in the world. Band members Damiano David, Victoria De Angelis, Ethan Torchio and Thomas Raggi share why Mick Jagger knows who they are and how they take a stand without specifically talking about politics.

ZEITmagazin: When you are on tour abroad, talking to people, giving interviews - are people surprised that a young rock band that is successful all over the world comes from Italy?

Thomas Raggi: Always! At first everyone is amazed, there are a bunch of questions, some are very clever and interested and revolve around cultural differences. Other questions are just plain stupid: "Can you put pineapple on pizza?" There were such questions in America, for example.

Victoria De Angelis: But that's wearing off, everyone now knows that we're Italians. But somehow they are still surprised.

Ethan Torchio: Maybe also because nobody expected this kind of music from Italy. Often, however, we are so busy with our thing that we don't really notice how we are perceived from the outside. And actually our origin and the value of our music have nothing to do with each other. Values ​​are not tied to anything.

ZEITmagazin: In Germany music from Italy is associated with Gianna Nannini, Zucchero, Eros Ramazzotti beyond the hits. Many Italy lovers are familiar with Paolo Conte. But Lucio Battisti is not known here at all. His music is like the soundtrack of entire decades of life in Italy. Today, a quarter of a century after his death, it is still played daily on the radio. Can you relate to Battisti?

Damiano David: It's a long time ago, but that doesn't make it any less great, it's timeless. Of course he's light years away from our music, the complete opposite, but he's still fascinating for us.

ZEITmagazin: Why can music like that of Lucio Battisti stand the test of time?

Damiano: Because it captures something of its time, or rather: because it manages to be the expression of a break in time, to mark a turning point that many people may not understand until years later.

ZEITmagazin: If we stay with the image of Italy abroad, I would like to ask a question that I am often confronted with myself and which unfortunately usually leaves me quite at a loss: how is it possible that such a lovely country as Italy is governed by a post-fascist party together with a man like Silvio Berlusconi, who has committed serious crimes and only recently promised his football club AC Monza a minibus full of prostitutes if they beat big teams, and a Matteo Salvini, who delights in the idea of sending ​​refugees back again in the boat.

Damiano: For me there are two main reasons. For one thing, Italy has a short historical memory. We have forgotten the last right-wing government, we have forgotten what happened. Second, there's this vintage nostalgia: Everything that's old is beautiful. Cooking like in the old days, going on vacation like in the old days, the music of yesteryear...

ZEITmagazin: Does that also apply to fascism?

Ethan: In fact, there are still people who claim that everything was better in wartime. Totally crazy! I believe this latent glorification of the good old days has made neo-fascism socially acceptable.

Victoria: In my opinion, it also has a lot to do with ignorance. The bad thing is that the parties are counting on people's ignorance, their backwardness or their religious attitudes. And now we have a government that is committed to discrimination. Voting behavior is also to blame for this. A lot of people didn't vote at all. 40 percent of young people between 18 and 25 did not vote. That's a hell of a lot!

ZEITmagazin: Why is that?

Thomas: If I want a certain party to win or lose, I go to the polls. But when I don't have the itch and don't feel like getting up from my comfortable sofa to stand in line at some polling station, then this is how an election result happens. Almost everyone in the LGBTQ scene went to the polls and voted against Meloni because there is something at stake for these people. They know they are in literal danger, not just mentally but physically. But a lot of people who don't have a particular concern say to themselves: My voice won't change anything anyway.

ZEITmagazin: After Giorgia Meloni's election success in September, you, Damiano, posted: This is a sad day for my country...

Damiano: They slammed me for that. Both on social networks and on the radio.

ZEITmagazin: Italy used to be very leftist and had the largest communist party in Western Europe. Why has the left lost so much of its appeal ?

Thomas: It's difficult for us to judge. We have only experienced the last five years in a politically conscious manner. When you're thirteen or fourteen, you don't understand anything. That is why our political perspective is very limited. It is not for us to pass judgment on the decline of a political idea. What we have noticed to some extent are broken promises and this very disappointment that your own voice doesn't make a difference.

ZEITmagazin: Do you never hear, for example from your record label, that you should hold back on political issues?

Damiano: We found a pretty good balance because we never talk about specific politics. The four of us don't always agree politically. And we don't want to be political opinion makers or moralizers. We are talking about things that we understand go beyond any political discussion: we are against the war in Ukraine, we are against discrimination against minorities. Human rights are inviolable.

ZEITmagazin: Was Damiano's "Fuck Putin" spontaneous at the end of a concert at California's Coachella Festival, or did you talk about it beforehand?

Victory: That was spontaneous.

ZEITmagazin: But then you all bear the responsibility.

Victoria: Of course. If there is an attitude that should be taken for granted worldwide, then we position ourselves clearly and unequivocally. There should be agreement on this, regardless of whether I am on the right, left or whatever.

ZEITmagazin: Does the Catholic Church still have great influence in Italy today?

All: (ironic, in unison) No! What!

Victoria: It just acts more cleverly and makes less of an appearance.

ZEITmagazin: Under pressure from the church, the state broadcaster RAI in Italy did not play John Lennon's song "Imagine" in the early 1970s because it contains the lines "Imagine there's no heaven ... And no religion, too". These words were enough. In comparison, the influence of the church has become very small.

Victoria: But unfortunately it's still very big. Many people hold to the values ​​of the church. When our posters were to be put up in Rome , the church gave us difficulties. In the photo I was seen with my eyes rolled, you only saw the whites, that was too demonic for them. That's why we were banned from posting posters near the Vatican.

ZEITmagazin: But if that's true, then isn't that actually advertising for you?

Thomas: No. We hadn't told anyone that yet. You can now advertise for us. (laughs)

ZEITmagazin: When it comes to other topics, on the other hand, people are more relaxed in Italy than in America, for example: when Victoria lost her top at the MTV Awards and you could see her breasts, the pictures were immediately hidden. Something like that would be unthinkable in Italy, wouldn't it?

Damiano: In Italy we are more relaxed about nudity, less so about other things. In America, nudity is totally taboo. But you see guns everywhere.

Victoria: And you're not allowed to say swear words, they'll be censored immediately.

Damiano: When Victoria's nipple was censored, there had been a performance before us with all phallic symbols, but apparently that wasn't a problem. Male genitals are fine, females are not.

ZEITmagazin: Were you an outsider at school with your attitude, your hair, your outfits?

Ethan: Yes, we were different, we stood out, we experimented with our looks. I was quite the oddball at my school, wasn't bullied, but was the oddball compared to the others who all dressed alike. That is still the case today. They all look the same.

Damiano: It's about just not attracting attention, being as basic as possible , that's what we call it. The difference can only be determined by the price: You have exactly the same shoes as the others, but in the limited edition, which costs six times more.

ZEITmagazin: And at the same time, tolerance for deviations has decreased?

Ethan: Tolerance is a very sore point. You tell yourself that society is totally open, that the mentality has changed, because nowadays it sounds silly to say that I'm being laughed at because of my clothes. But in reality it's still the same. When I was little, that bothered me. In Italy it is much more extreme than in other countries. Here people are very conservative in many things, being different is perceived as threatening or wrong.

ZEITmagazin: Young men with long hair, for example?

Ethan: Totally. For me it was a filter to understand which people I can get involved with and which ones I would rather avoid. A lot of people have asked me: Why do you have long hair? I answered: Because I think it's beautiful. But you're a boy. So what? Yes, but it makes you look like a girl. That got on my nerves, but fortunately I didn't let it affect me. Nevertheless, I felt like an outsider and therefore discriminated against.

Damiano: If you read the comments and criticisms from Italy that we get on Facebook, for example, eighty percent of them are about our looks. As soon as we post a photo in which one of us shows a bit of skin or is dressed oddly, the comments rain down. It's damn sad to see the concentrated anger of these people putting others down. Why do you care how I dress? Why does it bother you when I'm at peace with myself and post a photo?

ZEITmagazin: Does that also apply to your lyrics?

Damiano: Yes, but paradoxically it's more about our looks. A lot of people don't even listen to our lyrics. They see the photos and hate it.

ZEITmagazin: Is it actually true that only one of you finished school and the others have thrown themselves into music?

Thomas: Actually we all jumped into the music. I graduated from high school, but that was something personal. We all made the same decision: we like it, it's going well, so we're going to give it our all.

ZEITmagazin: Even when you were not yet successful?

Thomas: Yes! Above all, Victoria's decision for music was very important as an impulse. We thought, if she dares, then we dare too.

ZEITmagazin: Did your parents agree?

Ethan: Agreed not. But they understood straight away that this is really important to us. So they gave us more freedom than most teenagers our age would have had. Of course, the school thing went against the grain for them. But they let us do it and believed in us.

ZEITmagazin: You, Damiano, allegedly only worked properly for a month in your life, and that must have been terrible.

Damiano: That was longer than a month. I was on the road as a representative for all kinds of wellness products, going door-to-door. The product range was broad - from cosmetics to mattresses. Our highlights were a coffee maker and a water filter, they cost a fortune, absolutely crazy. When I stood in front of people's doors, I felt like a thief. We got this gigantic nonsense drummed into our heads that we should tell them so they would pay 400 euros for a pillow. I was pretty good at it. But it was awful. I worked from June to September, in the hottest summer I was in a suit from morning to night and had to ride the subway from one end to the other, bathed in sweat.

ZEITmagazin: Did this time bring you anything that you benefit from today?

Damiano: You learn to face an audience, to interact with people, even if you annoy them. And you learn something for life: respect, discipline, punctuality. You learn to belong to a team and to subordinate yourself. You learn to be dependable even when you're totally exhausted: there are people working with you, so don't let them down.

ZEITmagazin: There is a difference between Italy and Germany that, for once, is not a cliché: in Germany children leave home as soon as possible after school, in Italy many are still living with their parents at 35. Why is that?

Victoria: I think about that quite often. In Denmark it is similar to Germany. However, young people there also have many more opportunities. In Italy, they're not just starved from an artistic point of view. There is hardly any support from the state, studying in Italy is very demanding: the requirements are high, there is no time for part-time work, and if you do not receive state aid or earn money on the side, it is practically impossible to leave home.

ZEITmagazin: So it's purely financial reasons?

Victoria: I think it also has something to do with our culture. In my circle of friends there are many parents who are very attached to their children and believe that they have to protect them and keep them at home as long as possible. It's different in other countries, in Denmark your parents kick you out when you're eighteen. Parents who say: Go away! – that is completely unimaginable in Italy. Here it says: No, but you are my child, stay with me, I will take care of you.

Damiano: Family is very important in Italy, but our generation would give anything to get away from home. They can't stand their parents anymore - with all their love. But they don't have the means. For example, I come from a perfectly normal family, we lack nothing, but for my older brother, who works and has a good job, it would be completely impossible at the moment to move out of our parents' house. I, on the other hand, was extremely lucky and was able to leave home early.

ZEITmagazin: You are all in their early twenties. Do any of you still live at home?

Ethan: We actually all fled.

Thomas: I'm still living with my parents at the moment, but I'll be taking the big step soon.

Damiano: But you were already living alone and thought it was stupid!

Thomas: I had this apartment in Trastevere, but it was six months at the most, that doesn't count. I wasn't really away from home at all, didn't have to take responsibility. Now something completely different is going on.

ZEITmagazin: Have you already confessed to your parents?

Thomas: Yes, and they didn't think it was that bad anymore.

ZEITmagazin: In Germany there is this saying: pinch me. Haven't the past few years been a bit unbelievable for you too?

Damiano: And how, every day! When we performed at the Circo Massimo last summer, and that too in Rome, in our city, I asked them to shine light at the audience because we don't see much on stage. Seventy thousand spectators - it was a sea of ​​people!

ZEITmagazin: In 2021, just a few months after winning the Eurovision Song Contest , you were the opening act for the Rolling Stones. You met Mick Jagger. How was he?

Victoria: Super cool.

Ethan: As you imagine him. Fully energized, enthusiastic. With that typical voice.

ZEITmagazin: Did he know who you are?

Damiano: Yes, he was fully aware. He had prepared. Keith Richards on the other hand was quite honest: I have no idea who you are, but I see the guitar, the drums – great, very good, keep it up. Ciao.

ZEITmagazin: At a Metallica concert, two of you - Victoria and Thomas - were said to be seen dancing enthusiastically in front of the stage like normal fans.

Thomas: Right! But we've already seen them in Rome. And in Milan. Before we met her, we were ardent fans.

ZEITmagazin: Would you say that the real artists stay approachable?

Damiano: Yes, by and large.

Victoria: But it's noticeable that today's superstars, especially the young ones, puff themselves up a lot. The true legends, on the other hand, are totally nonchalant, sitting in your studio and chatting for hours without making a fuss.

ZEITmagazin: Almost all old musicians say that what they did when they were young, they can no longer do today - if only because they are no longer politically correct.

Victoria: No, that wouldn't work anymore. Many of those who wrote rock history were totally crazy or permanently high.

Damiano: In the past, when you were crazy and stoned and doing crass stuff, people only noticed if you were a celebrity. Today, any no-name can pump themselves up on drugs, hop out the window, and go viral with it. Anyone can play rock star. Everyone wants to be important and nothing has meaning anymore.

ZEITmagazin: You smashed two instruments in Las Vegas, a classic rock gesture for which you were heavily criticized... Måneskin thinks that today's superstars, especially the young ones, would puff themselves up a lot.

Damiano: For us it was a way of celebrating the last concert. We enjoyed the moment, we didn't care what the social networks say about it.

Thomas: We used extra crappy instruments. I'm not going to smash a five-thousand-euro guitar! Do you think we're so stupid or what! That's what pissed me off the most. But you have to grown up and not give a shit.

Victoria: I find it hypocritical to accuse us of vandalizing instruments. When fireworks fly with other bands, no one says: A hundred thousand euros were blown away.

ZEITmagazin: Is there any of the old rock stars that you would like to meet?

Thomas: Jimmy Page.

Victoria: David Bowie. Unfortunately, that's not possible. So maybe Patti Smith.

Damiano: Me Paul McCartney.

Ethan: I almost said so too. But also Bono.

ZEITmagazin: What would you like to ask them?

Damiano: You always hear these stories from great bands, many of which, at least I think, are simply made up: They played this guitar riff – and boom, the song was there! But that's never how it works. I'd like to be told how it really was, firsthand. According to the motto: The story is a fairy tale, in reality it was very different...

ZEITmagazin: And how about you? It is said that the song "Zitti e buoni", which became your breakthrough, was so successful with young people in particular because it was an outcry against the Covid restrictions. Is that right?

Thomas: That's not completely out of thin air. In fact, Zitti e buoni was an expression of our anger at the time. We are so happy that people recognized themselves in it and made the song an anthem for their own causes. Of course, he was not only referring to the Covid situation, nor did he intend to call for a rebellion against the rules in force at the time.

ZEITmagazin: Is it true that you wrapped yourself in an Italian flag at a concert in the USA?

Damiano: That was probably me, because the audience throws everything at me and I'm the only one with my hands free.

ZEITmagazin: Unlike in Italy or America, in Germany this would be interpreted as a patriotic, if not right-wing, gesture.

Damiano: When we play in Rome, I wouldn't think of putting an Italian flag around my neck. But we are on tour in America, and there I show the flag to say: I am an Italian in the world.

ZEITmagazin: Was there a bit of pride involved?

Thomas: Of course, yes! That is celebrated.

Damiano: The more I see of the world, the more I'm convinced that Italy is the most beautiful country in the world, mistakes or not. Nothing to do.

Victoria: Italy is a wonderful country with great people. It cannot be compared to any other country. And it hurts that there are so many people who want to ruin it with their shit mentality. That's why we try to get a positive message across, to mess with it and change the attitude of these people.

ZEITmagazin: My favorite song of yours is "Vent'anni". It says: "I am afraid that I will only leave money in the world." Is that really a fear at your age?

Damiano: Less a fear than the awareness that this shouldn't happen. This sentence means that I not only want to leave the world what I have earned, but also create something that will stand the test of time, something that touches people's innermost being.

Thomas: We spoke earlier about Lucio Battisti. He and also Vasco Rossi, another great Italian singer, will never die.

Damiano: Because they've influenced generations, who in turn influence their children. This is the legacy that counts and that you want to leave behind.

[toffins]

you belong in a trash can / you're just like your father

aka an angsty poppy doodle while i was listening to grungy slavic underground rock (i hope i wrote the cyrillic right lmao sorry if it looks wonky!)

[erovalkyrie]

German DE: Say, what are the pronouns of a tie?

German Disco Elysium, on the matter of localisation: What are the pronouns of the Horrific Necktie? Normally, Harry and the tie address each other by "du", informal you.

Interestingly, in case you get the dialogue to talk to Kim about the Horrific Necktie (just before the SPIRIT BOMB), both English and German use different third person pronouns to refer to your necktie.

English goes with "it" because it is a lifeless object. Simple.

German goes with "sie", (she/her) because the object, "die Krawatte", is female.

tie (genderless) - Krawatte (f. - female)

This however changes nothing about Necktie's dialogue or male/masc-presenting voice, by Mikee Goodman.

Both Kim and Harry refer to the Necktie with female pronouns, as it sounds natural in German dialogue, nouns and objects have genders.

(A quick check into French, which also uses gendered nouns, tells me that "la cravate" (f.) also goes by "elle" - she/her.)

Also, German DE calls you "DU", informal you, and French DE calls you "VOUS", formal you.

So many cool characterisations in pronoun use in the localisations! :D

[katrium]

European Language Translation Services | Expert Linguists at Katrium.eu

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[panvani]

On some level I appreciate encouraging people to read "translated novels," but the action itself is pretty hollow unless you have some concrete intellectual/artistic/whatever purpose or goal in mind while reading translated novels. The predominance of English language novels at the detriment of all others within the Anglosphere, when other languages/cultures tend to import translated English language novels at a high rate, is, indeed, problematic, but this is more because of general American media hegemony and its relationship to American exceptionalism than an esoteric quality inherent to the virtue of the Translated Novel. An English language novel by, for example, a (living) African or West Asian author represents a greater gesture towards international literacy than a translated classic from Western Europe, and neither of these represent real political or social understanding, just your willingness to engage with literary figures and traditions that are not already within the immediate American cultural sphere.

[puppys-rhythm-heaven]

why is texas a thing in rhythm heaven-

[panspy]

im rereading all the percy jackson books (im about a quarter thru lost hero) bc of the tv show release and i can feel myself shifting back into my mythology phase. just looked up when the new emily wilson translation of the iliad is coming out. perhaps i will make offerings again. i am about to be consumed

[the---hermit]

onde você mora neva?

hi anon, google translate tells me you are wondering whether it snows where I live and I hope it's not lying to me. I do not speak portuguese (I think it's portuguese, I am very sorry if I got it wrong, I am feeling so stupid rn lol). If that is really the question it does snow where I live. It used to snow way more a few years back, but we got some snow this past winter which was really nice!

[therealnuclearplatypus]

inħobbkom kollha mwa

[cruelsister-moved2]

i love reading philosophy from when people thought you were just your body... like i know parts of it are really dark when they like believed you would just be trapped underground forever getting eaten by worms but you’d be aware of it or whatever LOL. but it’s also really cool that the idea of a detachable spirit or even like consciousness aren’t the default setting. we say stuff like ‘your body’ or even ‘your brain’ without a second thought now like there’s another ‘you’ but it’s nice to remember that people in other places and times haven’t necessarily thought of it that way and the added reminder that a lot of the way we conceptualise of these subtleties of identity is influenced by christianity & hellenistic philosophy in ways we aren’t necessarily even aware of (even if you aren’t christian, because when our language is shaped around them and the way we express ideas relies on that assumption, we’re all internalising them even if we DON’T believe we have immortal souls that will go to jesus in heaven or w/e)