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#DC reading guide
jlquarterly · 1 year
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TIM DRAKE READING ORDER
For those who, like me, when they like a character they need to read every single comic the character appears in, I have compiled a list of all of Tim Drake’s appearances from his debut up to the 2011 Flashpoint reboot (not including New 52 continuity).
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If you enjoy my reading guides or find them helpful and would like to support me, you can do so on my Ko-Fi.
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pyroreadscomics · 10 months
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Selina Kyle Reading Order
For my fellow fans who want to read every comic a character appeared in, (or who like me have seen jlquaterly's excellent reading guides and wanted one for their blorbo) I have compiled a list of every single appearance of Selina Kyle in Post-Crisis continuity up to the Flashpoint reboot.
This reading guide is also in in-universe chronological order.
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This reading guide was not only inspired by @jlquarterly and her excellent work, but they also provided immense help in putting this together. This guide would, on multiple levels, not exist without them.
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ainxis · 1 month
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DC Comic Book Guide!
Do you want to get into reading DC comics but it all seems very overwhelming and you have no idea where to start? Or maybe you've already been reading comics for a while but you've been avoiding exploring new characters because you just cannot find a good reading list for them.
If so you've come to a good place!!!
Along with @seratheminx on TikTok (go follow her! she makes really fun edits and other DC related videos, and this whole thing was her idea!) we've been working on a little project that assembles reading lists for different DC characters and teams for easy access! It also contains explanations for newer readers on basic terms and timelines. And gives our recommendations on where to start reading!
So far we have assembled lists for 230+ characters!
And there's a wheel you can spin to randomly choose a character from the list ✨😎.
Anyway here's the link to the docs:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1toKeMJJQRUBVBZmDL4KTTfVEtsVrxm63BYmBUJCjc-M/edit
Unfortunately I don't have a large following and most of my mutuals are already into comics so I would appreciate some help with rebloging so it can reach a wider audience!
If you have any questions or suggestions (we're in no way experts on a whole DC comics universe just two fans doing our best so if you find any mistakes please let us know) there's a suggestion forms at the end or you can send me an ask/dm.
Enjoy ❤️
DISCLAIMER 📢
The lists featured on the docs were not made by us! We just wanted to put them in one place for easier access as sometimes they are way harder to find than just a quick google search (which I did not realise before I started this project 💀). All the credit for those goes to their original creators! Lists are added in the form of links so you can clearly see who the og creators are, please give them some love if you found their hard work helpful!!! Seriously those guides are amazing and so well thought out! But that also means that not every list is up to date, as some were made a few years ago or didn't include certain eras for other reasons. I tried to include disclaimers if I thought that the missing years are important to the character so you can look for the rest on your own but obviously there are 230+ characters and I'm not an expert on every single one of them so 😅. The rest: definitions, recommendations and such were written by me and Sera. I just wanted to make that part clear.
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lonniemachin · 1 year
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Lonnie Machin/Anarky/Moneyspider: Complete (New Earth) Reading Guide
Who is Lonnie Machin?
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Lonnie Machin first entered the post-Crisis DC Universe in 1989 in Detective Comics (1937) Issues #608-609, written by Alan Grant and penciled by Norm Breyfogle. Inspired by the likes of V from Alan Moore's V for Vendetta and Chopper from Judge Dredd, Lonnie would become a relative thorn in the bourgeoisie (and Batman)'s side as the vigilante Anarky, the self-proclaimed 'voice of the people', until 2009. An impassioned young idealist and genius hacker/engineer, Lonnie would often be referred to as an 'anti-villain' by writers and fans alike - though he would remain outside of Batman's general rogues gallery, caring about making Gotham and the world as a whole a better place for the common man.
He would go on to star in two solo series, team up twice with Oliver Queen's Green Arrow, and eventually come to aid Tim Drake (as Red Robin) under the previously established hacker alias 'Moneyspider' from 2009 until the New 52 reboot in 2011.
What does this guide include?
Linked below is a spreadsheet including most/all of Lonnie Machin's comic appearances from his debut up to the New 52 (plus a few post-reboot recommendations). Sorted chronologically, each row features information such as title date and writer/penciller, which identity/mantle is most prominent in each appearance, personal notes on the contents of each issue, and a section for any content warnings that may need addressed.
Happy reading!
The Guide
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bish-0-p · 8 months
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animal man reading guide.
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i recently finished reading just about every appearance for buddy baker aka animal man, so i figured i would try my hand at making a guide! if there are any mistakes, feel free to correct me <3.
buddy's first appearance is in Strange Adventures #180
Strange Adventures #184, #190, #195, #201
Wonder Woman (1942) #267 & #268
Action Comics #552 & #553
DC Comics Presents #77 & 78
Crisis on Infinite Earths #10-12
Animal Man (1988) #1-6
Invasion! #2-3
Animal Man #7-8
Justice League International #24
Animal Man #9-11
from here, buddy has joined justice league europe. that content is skippable, but if you want to read it it's Justice League Europe #1-12. continue reading animal man alongside it. i switched between them
Animal Man #12-26 is the rest of the morrison run. this is THE essential run. if you read anything, read morrison's run
Animal Man #27-32 is the milligan run. it continues the horror elements of morrison's run with a theme of "loss of control"
Animal Man #33-50 is the veitch and dillon run, and it expands on the theme of loss of control by having buddy lose control of his life, arguably his family, and his powers for the ten thousandth time
Animal Man #51-79 is the delano run, and it's my second favorite run of the series. this run is all about buddy taking control back over his life in the form of literally becoming a god
Animal Man #80-89 is the prosser and harper run, which i heavily disliked because it went a completely opposite direction. it also marks the end of the series and the last we see of buddy for a bit
Aquaman #35
Resurrection Man #25-27
Hawkman (1986) #16-17
now we get into the infinite crisis/52 era. there's a lot of jumping
Identity Crisis #1 & #7
JLA #119
Infinite Crisis #2
Outsiders (2003) #31
Firestorm (2004) #20
Infinite Crisis #3
Outsiders #32
Firestorm #21
Infinite Crisis #6-7
52 #5-9, #16-20, #28, #31-33, #35-37, #43, #47, #51-52
Countdown to Adventure #1-8
from here you could read Rann-Thanagar Holy War, it's optional
Justice League of America (2006) #26-27
Blackest Night #5-8
Flashpoint #5
Animal Man (2011) #1-11
Swamp Thing (2011) #11-12
Animal Man #12-17
Swamp Thing #17
Animal Man #18-22
Justice League Dark (2011) #23
Animal Man #23-29
Justice League United #0-16
from here, buddy is mostly only seen in cameos. most of them aren't worth reading for buddy alone, but i enjoyed The Flash #790-791
and there you have it! if there are any additional suggestions or questions, please feel free to comment, dm me, or send me an ask <3
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megamind2010 · 1 year
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WHO IS DAMAGE?
damage, aka grant emerson, was created by bill kaplan, tom joyner, and bill marimon and first appeared in his self-titled 1994 series. he has been part of two incarnations of the titans, as well as the justice society of america. he is related to al pratt, the first atom; due to his unique heritage and genetics, grant possesses metahuman abilities that allow him to absorb and build up energy which he can use in various ways - most famously exploding like a bomb (hence the name).
WHAT IS THIS?
this is a catalogue of every single one of grant's comic appearances, organised chronologically and categorised by what i would consider 'essential' damage reading. grant is one of my favourite characters in dc, so hopefully this can help anyone who's interested in getting to know him!
CHECK IT OUT
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mindshelter · 1 year
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HI doing my kyle readthrough (up to oyl) rn and i must know what are some of your fav issues/arcs 🙏 and if there's anything u think i should just skip. if ur feeling hateful enough
HI i appreciate this ask a lot i don't know if i count as any paragon of kyle expertise but... well. that's never stopped me.
if you're up to oyl you're pretty far along, and i assume you'd seen a handful of reading guides that nudge you towards all of gl (1990) #48-181 and its surrounding crossovers, including zero hour (1994) and final night/parallax: emerald night (1996). i derive most of my takes on his character from this era.
green lantern rebirth and gl publications thereon are often (in)famously authored by mr. geoff johns, so i cannot in good conscience integrate most of that body of work into my belief system. that being said! it does include the buildup to ion (2006) #1-12, which, while not perfect, has phenomenal art and is also pretty key to kyle's whole ethos. the buildup to ion is the following:
green lantern: rebirth (2004)
green lantern corps: recharge (2005)
rann/thanagar war: infinite crisis special (2006)
ion (2006)
if you're not allergic to ensemble comics, he is also a frequent cast member in jla (1997) for the first 70 or so issues; it's a good place to look to see him foster relationships with other members of the dc universe (like wally, whose friendship with kyle is basically nonexistent nowadays but i have not forgotten) and gradually gain confidence as gl. some highlights include:
jla (1997) #1-7 — he's such a rookie here. he's clearly very new to the game and nervous about it, so it's a good look into how he started off and what he grew from.
jla/titans (1998) #1-3
jla (1997) #16-17
jla (1997) #32-46 — tie-ins to no-man's land, hal's return as the spectre in #35, and the world war iii/tower of babel storylines.
green lantern: circle of fire (2000) — starts about here, in terms of publication timeline, but portrays a version of kyle that is still relatively new to the jla. the kylealex worms are here.
jla (1997) 47-68, #70, #72-75
jla (1997) #76 — kyle's final issue in the JLA's main rotation, as a tie-in for the later events in gl (1990). john steps in for him.
as for standalones, personal recommendations, or just random appearances i happen to remember:
green lantern/flash: faster friends (1996) #1-2 — (to an empty auditorium) WALLY AND KYLE WOO! WOO!
total justice (1996) #1-3 — more budding hero kyle. wally is a hater. tim is also there.
dc universe holiday bash (1996) #1 — kyle goes to synagogue and beats white supremacists :)
dc universe holiday bash I (1997) #1 — connor and kyle go holiday shopping. very cute also.
adventures in the dc universe (1997) #11 — kyle and wonder woman hang out! he also gets bullied by children and falls into a sewer.
superman (1986) #159, #165, #170
batman chronicles (1995) #15 — be fucking nice bruce
green lantern 3D (1998) — standalone. jen and kyle being cute.
green lantern secret files and origins (1998) #1-3
green lantern 80-page giant (1998)
flash 80-page giant (1998) — kyle appears for two pages but it's of wally asking him about alex because he's worried about his own relationship. kyle gets very sad and visibly withdrawn to the point that wally apologizes. VERY FUNNY.
(final note: THANKS! i am so flattered. was it because of the kyle slayner shooba wooba cherry pie brownie cake post. i rambled on for way longer than i thought i would. i hope this is helpful, and happy reading!)
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nightwing-rg · 1 year
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Upcoming! A comprehensive Roy Harper Reading Checklist!
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The idea is that you will be able to make a copy of the googlesheet, and then mark off which comics you've read!
After I finish Roy's, I hope to follow it up with Dick, Wally, Donna, Garth, and the namesake of the blog - Christopher Kent. I might even continue to make them as time goes on, but I am starting with these.
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bisupergirl · 16 days
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SUPERGIRL READING GUIDE MASTERPOST
ULTIMATE SUPERGIRL READING GUIDE Includes reading guides for PRE-CRISIS, POST-CRISIS, NEW 52, REBIRTH, and INFINITE FRONTIER (continuously updated for recent appearances!)
SUPERGIRL STORYLINE RECOMMENDATIONS Includes recommendations for my favorite Supergirl stories across all of Kara's different eras.
PRE-CRISIS SUPERGIRL RECOMMENDATIONS Includes recommendations for my favorite PRE-CRISIS Supergirl storylines.
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bobbinalong · 2 months
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☀️ The Jon Kent Reading Guide, now in picture and spreadsheet form.
Super-Twins Reading Guide :)
Jay Nakamura Reading Guide :)
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jlquarterly · 1 year
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KON-EL READING ORDER
For those who, like me, when they like a character they need to read every single comic the character appears in, I have compiled a list of all of Kon-El’s (Conner Kent’s) appearances from his debut up to the 2011 Flashpoint reboot (not including New 52 continuity).
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devine-fem · 1 year
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i am BEGGING you to make that jondami ship guide. not because i need anything to make me ship them more than i already do but because they deserve to have their good moments highlighted
Jondami/Damijon shipping guide.
A collective guide to any cute moment between Jon and Damian in DC comics or motion pictures. Any moment that could make a reader like them more as a ship will be put all here in one Tumblr post.
• Superman (2016) Issues #10-#11
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This is the first time they meet each other and they immediately knock heads. Jon’s lighter than life personality clashes with Damian’s cold personality and they don’t seem to get along but you can tell there’s something growing behind the eye rolling and tongue clicking… a friendship?
• Superman (2016) Issue #20, #21, #25, #26 (mentioned), and #43.
• Super Sons (2017)
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This is the first of the Super Sons series, the series is really short but gold nonetheless. No Super Sons comic that I don’t like but this one is my favorite. They still are knocking heads and refuse to call each other partners but they grow and learn to be heroes together.
• Adventures of the Super Sons (2018)
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They slowly start to get used to each other and this comic shows that Damian isn’t just straight up mean but is starting to somewhat ‘like’ Jon.
• Challenge of the Super Sons (2020)
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The last main Super Sons comics. This one is fine but I love the others so much. These comics are essential to know Jon and Damian period, it’s the main comics of each others story and in a way they are important to each others development.
• Batman and Superman: Battle of the Super Sons (2022)
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Now after all that reading treat yourself to a movie because Jon and Damian got their own movie. This is what started Jon and Damian for a lot of people and this is probably where a lot of you are from. This movie is great and fun. They made Damian wayyy nicer than in the comics and their friendship easier.
• DC Rebirth Holiday Special (2016)
Please find and read this. It’s so cute. I love it so much.
• Dark Nights: Metal issue #3 (2017 -2018)
They make a rock band in the beginning, its so cute.
• DCeased (2019)
• DCeased: The Unkillables (2020)
• DCeased: Hope at World’s End (2020)
• DCeased: Dead Planet (2020)
• DCeased: War of the Undead Gods (2022)
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This is such a good series, and story in general please read it. DC peaked with this one and its so angsty. I don’t care what comphet was happening, Jon was there for Damian like no one else. I think Damian ends up with Cassie which is weird to me because Damian has never shown interest in anyone before but I excuse it since it’s not really gonna happen again since they were in a relationship just for the story to be more high stakes and sad. Jon and Damian’s relationship was at the forefront and for comic book readers DCeased made people see the potential in Jondami.
• DC’s Terror Through Time (2022)
This is so cute, please read this. It’s a halloween special and they switch uniforms <3!!
• DC Saved by the Belle Reve (2022)
They help a nonbinary person navigate school and it’s so damn cute.
• The age up incident.
(Disclaimer: You can pretend this never happens and I wouldn’t blame you for doing that.) A writer named Brain Micheal Bendis comes into the writers room for DC and ages up Jon in short. The story is that Superman goes missing (He travels to War World and gets stuck there) and Jor-El comes back to meet Jon and he takes him on a trip to explore space, then they get trapped in a wormhole, Jon gets stuck on Earth-3 and has to fight Ultraman. He’s stuck in a volcano for five or six years and becomes seventeen (we think) when he comes back. This was sad to me because it took away all the potential interactions for Jon and our ability to see him grow up, it was rushed and purposely so. Jon takes up the title of Superman somehow and starts to date some guy named “Jay Nakamura.”
• Superman: Son of Kal-El (2021) Issues: #1, #6, #14, and #15.
He does get a boyfriend here and I think it’s amazing the fact he simply gets a boyfriend but no one really likes his bf so… and the are real reasons why Jay as a character is problematic BUT if you just don't want to see him with someone else than every time you see a pink haired twink, quickly skip.
• Adventures of Superman: Jon Kent
• Super Sons (2017) Special
This is them reuniting after the age up and it shows how Damian reacts to it. I can’t actually find this and if anyone can please let me know where it is. I can only find bits and pieces of it scattered across the internet. All you need to know is that he doesn’t like the age up anymore than us since he says “I miss my friend.” which is really sad to me because the age up ultimately really hurts what people like about their dynamic as well as tarnish Jon’s character almost completely.
UPDATE: found it, it got attached to
• Dark Crisis (2022) till Issue #5
This is fine, after issue four Jon and Damian are not there anymore and if you read half the story just for jon and damian you might as well finish it.
• Green Lantern: Blackstars (2019) issue #2
They hug here. You’re welcome.
• Action Comics (2016) issue #1030
This is the best thing to come from the age up. This is so cute of them.
• Teen Titans (2016) Issue #43, #45, and #46
i didnt really like this, im not gonna lie but it has some damian and jon interaction worth noting with jon being protective over damian.
• Flash (2016) Issue #797
jon defending damian. this is such a cute moment for them. jon talks damian up and says how hes the strongest person he knows and how hes misunderstood.
• Legion of Super Heroes (2019) Issue #2 & #3
dont read this. its rlly bad but this is full of jon being the number one damian apologist, quality jondsmi moments over quantity. worth mentioning • Trinity Special: World’s Finest literally them raising a child together but their ages are a bit wonkey, i still dont personally know what age either of them are supposed to be there...
DC MEETS HANNA-BARBERA - Super Sons x Dynomutt
I’d say they aren’t exactly written right, well over all they are but their personalities are more relaxed and they care about each other a lot and will go out of their way to make sure the other is okay and protect them from danger, make them laugh etc, theres nothing wrong with this, its really cute but you can tell its not the typical jon and damian writers is all. I like it.
• Dark Crisis: The Dark Academy (2023)
• Wonder Woman (2016) Issue #800
- Fandom
Artist that draw Jon and Damian:
(I don’t know any of these accounts intimately so if they’re problematic in any way than I am sorry in advance)
Sheiya Vlad
Pechaghtlecha
Corinthianrm0
Hobiiiebrown
spider-jaysart
arunneronthird
Twitter
Hokke
Gozer
@_1209E
YouTube
Justice Lords Animation
Japanese Animation
Super Sons Meme Animation
- Fanfics
Trust fall by Ididloveyou_once
Those Who Wait by InsaneTrollLogic
moving in stereo by TheResurrectionist
Reasons to Not Fall in Love by nanami
Growing Pains
These are fics I read and liked, I don’t have much. I don’t read a lot of Jondami fan fiction so I insist that you recommend your own fanfiction in the comments. (Don’t hate me for the self promo)
- Music (A silly lil playlist I made for them)
END
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jayladfanpage · 2 months
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JASON TODD MUST-READ COMIC GUIDE :]
ROBIN
Batman (1940) #408-411, #416
Detective Comics (1937) #569-574, #580 & #581
Superman (1939) Annual #11
New Teen Titans (1985) #20, #21
Batman: The Cult (1988)
Batman (1940) #422, #424, #425
Batman: A Death in The Family
Batman: Gotham Knights (2000) #43-45
RED HOOD
Under The Red Hood & Red Hood: Lost Days (I recommend reading Lost Days first, but it's up to you)
Nightwing (1996) #118-122
Green Arrow (2001) #69-72
Batman: Battle for the Cowl & Battle for the Cowl: The Underground (2009)
Task Force Z (2021)
Joker: The Man Who Stopped Laughing (2023)
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lonniemachin · 1 year
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Jean-Paul Valley & Azrael: Complete Reading Guide
Who is Jean-Paul Valley? / Who is Azrael?
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Jean-Paul Valley first entered the post-Crisis DC Universe in the 1992 4-issue miniseries 'Batman: Sword of Azrael', written by Dennis O'Neil and penciled by Joe Quesada. A former graduate student at Gotham University, Jean-Paul's life would irreversibly change when his father would crawl to his door dying, dressed in the garb of Azrael, the Avenging Angel - an assassin for the Catholic cult Order of Saint Dumas. Thus began a series of events that would activate 'The System', conditioning that had been programmed into Jean-Paul since birth that allows he - as his father and his grandfathers before him - to give control over to the Order's personal punisher and access latent superhuman skills and abilities.
Jean-Paul and Azrael would go on to become Batman in the stead of Bruce Wayne as Bruce recovered from spinal trauma inflicted by Bane, star in their own 100-issue solo series, escape (and destroy) Jean-Paul’s father’s sect of the Order, and become members of the first iteration of what is most well known as the Bat Family until their death. They played a vital role in DC's Knightfall, Contagion, and No Man's Land story arcs.
After the New 52 reboot, they would go on to play big roles in Detective Comics: Rebirth, Justice League Odyssey, and star in a second solo miniseries. As part of the New 52 and Rebirth initiatives, Jean-Paul and Azrael's backstory and details would be changed, though as of 2022 it is implied that aspects of their New Earth origin have been re-established.
What does this guide include?
Linked below is a spreadsheet including most/all of Jean-Paul Valley and Azrael's comic appearances from their debut up to their most recent issues. Sorted chronologically and divided into sections based on arcs and events, each row features information such as title date and writer/penciller, which identity/mantle is most prominent in each appearance, personal notes on the contents of each issue, and a section for any content warnings that may need addressed.
This spreadsheet is continually updating/a perpetual WIP. New issues are added as they release.
Happy reading!
The Guide
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nightmareinfloral · 9 months
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Jericho- Where to Read?
Joseph William Wilson (Jericho) is the youngest son of Slade Wilson (Deathstroke) and Adeline Kane. Beneath the cut is a complete list of Joey’s major appearances updated as of January 2024. Most important issues are in bold.
The 1980s:
Tales of the Teen Titans (1984) 42-44, Annual 3, 45-48, 50-52, 56-57, 58
The New Teen Titans (1984) 1-2, 3-5
Crisis on infinite Earths (1985) 3-5, 9, 11
Who’s Who: The Definitive Directory of the DC Universe (1985) 11
The New Teen Titans (1984) 6-10, Annual 1, 11-13, 14-15
The Omega Men (1983) 34-35
The New Teen Titans (1984) 16-17, 18, 22, 24-31
Action Comics (1938) 584
Teen Titans Spotlight (1986) 3-6
Secret Origins (1986) 13
History of the DC Universe (1986) 2
The New Teen Titans (1984) 33-34
Blue Beetle (1986) 11-14
The New Teen Titans (1984) 35-37, Annual 3, 39-49, Annual 4
The New Titans (1988) 50-55
Secret Origins (1986) Annual 3
The New Titans (1988) Annual 5, 57-59
Batman (1940) 440
The New Titans (1988) 60-61
Secret Origins (1986) 46
The New Titans (1988) 62-63
The 1990s:
The New Titans (1988) 64-67
Hawk & Dove (1989) 11-12
The New Titans (1988) 68-69
Who’s Who in the DC Universe (1990) 1
The New Titans (1988) Annual 6
Wonder Woman (1987) 47, 49
The New Titans (1988) 71, 75-79, Annual 7, 80-85. 86
Deathstroke the Terminator (1991) 1-7, 9, 11, Annual 1
Showcase ‘93 (1993) 2
Batman Shadow of the Bat (1992) 34
Deathstroke (1991) 48
JLA/Titans (1998) 1
Nightwing Secret Files and Origins (1999) 1
The Titans (1999) 10
The 2000s:
The Titans (1999) 25, 46
Teen Titans (2003) 2
Batman Gotham Knights (2000) 44
Teen Titans (2003) 3-5, 7-8
Avengers/JLA (2003) 4
Teen Titans (2003) 9, 11-12, 21
Nightwing (1995) 106
DC Special The Return of Donna Troy (2005) 1
Teen Titans/Outsiders Secret Files and Origins (2005) 1
Teen Titans (2003) 33, 39-47, 52
Countdown to Final Crisis (2007) 36
DC Universe: Last Will and Testament (2008) 1
DC Universe Decisions (2008) 3-4
Titans (2008) 6-12
Teen Titans (2003) Annual 1, 69
Vigilante (2008) 5
Teen Titans (2003) 70
Titans (2008) 13
Vigilante (2008) 6
Teen Titans (2003) 77-78
The 2010s:
DC Universe Legacies (2010) 5
Titans (2008) 37-38, Annual 1
Deathstroke (2011) 0, 13, 19-20
New Teen Titans: Games (2011)
Deathstroke (2014) 2-6, 17-20
Convergence New Teen Titans (2015) 1-2
Deathstroke: Rebirth (2016) 1
Deathstroke (2016) 1-3, 6-10, 12-16, 18
Teen Titans (2016) 8
Deathstroke (2016) 19
Teen Titans The Lazarus Contract Special (2017) 1
Deathstroke (2016) 20-25
DC Holiday Special (2017) 1
Deathstroke (2016) 26-27, Annual 1, 28 -32, 34-50
The 2020s:
Dark Knights: Death Metal: The Last Stories of the DC Universe (2020) 1
Batman Black and White (2020) 5
Deathstroke Inc. (2021) 1, 5, 7
Future State Gotham (2021) 12
Tales of the Titans (2023) 2
Thank you to @jerichogender for helping me compile!
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jonkentweek · 3 months
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Reading Guide
A work-in-progress guide to Jon Kent! I'm roughly up to the Kents moving to Metropolis right now; that's about 80 issues in more or less chronological order. I say more or less because it's kind of impossible to line things up properly between three ongoings sometimes.
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