#But gay characters are apparently able to have a relationship without it

[antiyourwokehomophobia2]

I think that people who say stupid shit like "their love doesn't require kisses and sex! They can be in a romantic relationship without it" should enter a relationship with someone who never wants to kiss them or have sex with them and tell me if they still feel the same afterwards.

[theallyandhisbeast]

About bucktommy and 911 in general

You know, in the end, this just feels extremely cheap and cruel.

Showing bucktommy be incandescently happy in all the episodes but 8.6? Even in this ep you can feel how much they care and genuinely love each other. Audience was largely optimistic and excited about them, in a way we have never seen for other buck's LI.

Only to what? Throw it all away because you can't be bothered to write a satisfactory arc for them? Because Buck is the epitome of the guy who dates a lot but always gets broken up with? That to be able to decide if you want to be in a committed relationship if you are bi you have to explore first or else your decision is null and void?

What a way to waste potential and your characters arc.

The special thing about Tommy was that he was beloved by not only bucktommy fans, but GA, and most importantly he was a sort of representation we don't see all that much in media. People loved him because they saw themselves in him, they could connect to his journey and they were genuinely rooting for him to find love and family with Buck. To waste it all away, and to do so by basically throw at us all that we loved about them is unnecessarily cruel.

What hurts the most is that even buck and tommy themselves didn't want to break up. but instead they "must" because bowing down to harmful stereotypes about bi people who are "confused and so they must experiment before settling" is more important than telling a compelling story.

Even without bt break up, I feel like this season took a sharp dive for the worst about well thought storylines in a way that baffles him. Gerrard was reduced to a joke, as was Ortiz, both pgs that could have been used to create compelling arcs that intertwined the 118 even more but instead we got this cheap throwaway joke of a Gerrard, Ortiz was basically throw out of office in a single ep. Hotshot sl could have been fun but instead it's just.... there. And coming back too just for funsies, cause apparently that sl was more important to develop instead of a interesting queer relationship.

Athena once again doing copaganda. Bobby coming back to the 118 without any particular struggle or even guilt about dropping the bag. Things said in interviews that we expect to happen and never even made it to the screen (Eddie's loneliness? Chim and Hen having conflict over Mara? Buck feeling guilty about injuring Gerrard?).

The way Maddie cannot have any sl that is not either tied to a man or about motherhood. Madney having another surprise baby instead of them choosing on purpose to expand their family. Hen & Karen gaining trauma after trauma about their children and not having any other sl that is not tied to that. Josh just existing in the periphery and only becoming important as the "insightful token gay" but not having any type of meaningful screen time since Carson.

The other side characters like Sue, Ravi, Linda, Carla completely disappearing without anyone mentioning them. Ravi has not been given any important sl ever since he talked about having cancer and ever since reduced as a comic relief without anything to add to his character but he's a "landlord".

Chris is out of the picture for who knows how long, and is basically kept around to be traumatized over and over again. Eddie hasn't gotten any character development until first s5 and seemingly now, but i'd argue that the whole thing just felt rushed because what do you mean it takes one chat with a priest for him to do a 180° while he still isn't talking to Chris? And Eddie was the one who got the best treatment of all of them this season.

It's the way this show is slowly chipping itself away. It's the way they start a queer story line promising it would be impactful and handled with care and then half-assing it a best. It's the way the other queer characters are never explored and able to breath and revel in their queerness in the first place. Because, really, when was the last time Hen and Karen kissed on screen? When was the last time they went on a date? When was the last time their arcs were not about children or getting hurt, but just about them as individuals? And on this thread what about Maddie? Or Josh? Or Chim? Or Eddie?

Everything feels reused again and again and again without no real development than then starting the circle all over in half a season.

What a waste.

[luunamoona]

the way community handled queerness is honestly so peak. like, there're 3 main moments i can think of in the show where queerness was apparent and mentioned: advanced gay, queer studies and advanced waxing and britta's pitch in emotional concequences of broadcast television.

in advanced gay, the cornelius hawthorne is seen as a villian for having traits like being abusive towards his son, pierce, him being really racist and him being homophobic. this acknowledgement of homophobia being a bad thing is definitely good for the early 2010s, as many shows treated being queer as a joke back then. also cornelius being fucking murdered at the end of the episode solidifies the fact his actions were deemed immoral and he therefore had his comeuppance.

community only ever uses queerness as a punchline in the context of troy and abed's relationship, the punchline usually being "look at how romantic these 2 friends are how silly", which could be seen as homophobia as the same context with a man and a woman would be treated differently by the showrunners as it'd be turned into a romantic subplot.

the next example i have is from queer studies and advanced waxing. having the dean tell richie and carl that he "isn't openly anything and gay doesn't begin to cover it" is much more progressive than many other media at that time, and even now, as they'd usually have the queer character just be gay for convenience. this need for convenience is commented on in the episode with richie and carl basically coercing the dean into adopting a label that is inaccurate but convenient for his straight peers. back to my previous point, presenting queerness as being more complex and having more nuance than just gay and straight is something that is very useful to queer viewers as it presents an option beyond these 2 ends of the spectrum. unlike what other shows may do with this concept, community treats it seriously, showing the dean's inner conflict with presenting with an identity that isn't his, with lines like "i feel sick". (also side point, the line "i make gayness look like mormonism" goes so hard)

finally, there's britta's pitch in emotional concequences of broadcast television. in this, the dean protests britta's decision to make him transgender and not "all this other stuff". something i love about that scene is the ability to critique queer represention without insulting it. as a trans person, i've seen a good amount of transphobia is television. this isn't one of these times. being able to have trans identity be a part of the punchline without it being insulted is something that is apparently very hard for screenwriters of sitcoms to do, so i commend them for being able to do that. as well as this, this scene acts as a criticism of how basic queer representation in media is, how they like having one distinct, easy to understand label to give their token character, ignoring "all this other stuff". it's telling us that, like in queer studies and advanced waxing, queer idenity isn't black and white, it's a wide spectrum of identities that comes in many, many different colors.

all in all, community's representation of queerness and how it treats insults to queerness is something a lot of other shows should try to strive for. in my opinion, it has some of the most nuanced takes of queer identity and representation out of any sitcom that doesn't have queer people as a target audience. it feels very fitting, since the show is literally called community and it about a group of misfits who bond over their shared messed up-ness. this show is all about finding your people and accepting everyone, as pierce says in for a few paintballs more, "flaws and all". i think the showrunners had an impression this show would speak to a lot of queer people and i love that they were able to make us feel welcome just as greendale does to the study group.

[musiccgor3]

Gonna ramble about a movie I watched because it ended up far more interesting than I thought, and reminded me of a few things. It has some spoilers tho so (long ass post....)

It's kinda like Dead Poets Society, but if it was set in ww2 nazi boarding school for history buffs

Я убейся бля. It reminded me so much of dps. The scenes, the characters, legit everything with just a few changes here and there. I honestly just viewed Friedrich and Albrecht as best friends, but some people apparently see them as romantic interests, and honestly, I can't even argue with that. A few scenes felt like it. Still, no matter what your views on them are, it's still pretty devastating.

It also kinda hit close to home, which may be a weird thing to say for a film with nazis ☠️, BUT I meant specifically how the school and teachers acted and Friedrich's roommates. Obviously, it's not as comparable. Napolas were literally teaching teens to kill, but it reminded me just a tiny bit, k??? The strict ass teachers, and don't even get me started on the humiliating punishment. That one scene with the instructor and shit reminded me of my own teacher. Whenever we failed a test or quiz, he'd make us chew the paper and spit it out. We'd also get hit sometimes in front of everyone, among other things.

Another thing it reminded me was my friend. I think one of the main reasons I mainly viewed them as friends was because I might have been projecting from how much Albrecht reminded me of a friend lmfao. This shit is very personal but well whatever. It was mostly their personalities. He was also reserved, kinda soft spoken and quiet, like Albrecht. He had some family issues, mainly with his dad, and because of his personality, he wasn't severely bullied or anything, more like outcasted and ignored by the others. I was the only one he actually talked to casually without purpose, so I suppose being his only friend, I kinda influenced him too and vice versa (since it was also a pretty shitty time in my life where I was a bit stupid lol). He really stood with what he thought. Friedrich and Albrecht were like mirrors to me, almost. But unfortunately, too much alike. Due to some stuff happening, I also ended up losing him to suicide. I wasn't even able to attend his funeral, so the scene where Friedrich requested an obituary and they refused to give Albrecht a funeral in the school???? Ouch. And I also already felt a bit guilty with what happened, so when that fuck said the parents blamed Friedrich to be partially responsible for Albrecht's death, uhh, double ouch. It got me thinking a bit.

I'd be lying if I said I don't miss him bad, but shit, enough of that. I rambled about it wayy too much.

Yeah, this movie is great as hell. Not only is it a good film, but it'll probably hold an important place in my brain. I'm gonna think about this for the next week thx. Super cool movie. There should be more films where they allow guys to have more emotional relationships than just "oh, I'm super masculine. I don't care about others." Yeah, most of us are raised to be more emotionally reserved and probably cant be affectionate for shit with friends or let alone anyone, but don't lie when you say you haven't atleast had one friendship where you let go for once damn. "Bromance" or not, some ppl need to learn how to care. You can be masculine and still care for your friends deeply, ya know.

This movie might have some intentional or unintentional homoeroticism in it, but эххххх whatever.... Gay or not, we can all agree it's depressing in both ways someone can view it

(Just realized I probably liked this film due to more personal reasons than a cinematic view LMAO)

[tmf-confessions]

I HAVE TO CONFESS IT. I HAVE TO SAY IT. GOSHDARNIT I HATE LANDER WITH EVERY BONE IN MY BODY- 😭😭😭

Okay, so, may get some slander for this but Let me explain myself first- Lander is literally the least developed, most emotionless relationship in tmf.

1. Its (pretty much) useless to the plot

Literally like, they’re supposed to be “super close”, they used to be childhood best friends and now they’re lovers! But like…When do we see that ever???

Lander was basically just an excuse to give luke some screentime, and to give zander some more screentime. I know that not everything has to be necessary to the plot of tmf, but in general, when things happen, especially in such a short series (less than 15 episodes in season 1), even filler content should somehow be able to push the plot forward, right? Apparently not, because Lander literally did nothing plot wise!

You could argue that yes, it did show Zander and luke that jake was a trustworthy, but theres so many other ways that he could have done it, without the whole lander arc, which could have arguably set up both characters for more interesting arcs?

Honestly, I feel like there could have been an arc where luke accepted stacy, and zander had to learn to deal with heartbreak, and it would still push the narrative in the same direction, could have had a lot more buildup too

2. It feels like it’s just there for representation

As a queer person myself, do not get me wrong, it is WONDERFUL to have representation within media, on bigger more popular shows too! I’m eternally grateful that rosy added them in to showcase a queer relationship, however, lander honestly feels like its just that. Like its there, JUST to showcase a real relationship.

Like, they had a cute confession moment, but it was so early on in the series that it genuinely didn’t seem like something that was built up to. Sure, we got a bit of time, but how much time was that? 2 episodes of build up tops? “Lovesick luke” and “a drummers confession” was like, literally it. Nothing beforehand to build up to it, besides the whole “Zander is gay” and “zander and luke are childhood best friends” thing, but those can exist within platonic relationships too, so thats not really buildup at all

We never get to see why they’re attracted to eachother, other than “wow, they’ve been friends for a while and admire eachother, they must have crushes on eachother” like- even as a person who is VERY VERY VERY romantically attracted (think opposite of aromantic, then scale it 20x past that), its just giving “boy and girl co-star on a show and end up together at the end because you cant have 2 friends be close without them being romantic,” but made queer.

Genuinely, if theres going to be a relationship, i think that (as much as i personally am not really a shipper of it) jailey is a WONDERFUL example.

They kind of grew on eachother, and we see that attraction growing slowly, rather than being shoved in our faces or being rushed. Its a well thought out love arc, and almost perfectly encapsulates a slowly formed relationship. even in such a short show, it didn’t feel rushed.

(While rereading this, i’m really notsure how to phrase my words, so these words absolutely do not reflect my ABSOLUTE feelings on this, but this is about as close as I can get with it. I am in absolutely no way accusing rosy of being homophobic, Infact i see quite the opposite in her, she’s a wonderful ally, its just meh writing)

3. Its honestly not the best ship? (This part is my opinion purely)

Dont get me wrong, they’re not toxic by any means, (infact, they seem quite healthy!) but they 100% have some issues they need to work on. Like… does no one notice how Luke like, threatened jake if he hurt zander? Obsession issues a tad bit, perchance?/notneg

Luke kinda exists to push zander’s story arc along in the first season, so we get like, no luke character traits, which i think definitely contributes to them not being the best pairing, but overall they’re so generically “mehh” of a relationship. They’re just kinda together, to be together.

4. FINAL REASON: It was just there to push jake’s story along.

Honestly, I think this is the underlying reason here. Jake is the main character in a really short show, so if somethings not revolved around him, its gotta be quick. Lander would definitely be so much better with more development, but because its not jake centred, we basically get nothing on them. This isnt rosy’s fault by any means, shes gotta get the main story in ofc, it just sucks that that seems to cost other characters screen time and development that could have been really nice.

Overall, Rosy please make more lander stuff in season 2, I need to stop hating it cause it could genuinely be so cute 🙏

confession #810

[spectrum-color]

does robin hobb actually doesn't like fitz and fool together? i'm halfway in the series and seem some people speak abt this

This is a tricky question to answer, because we really don’t know where she stands right now. Bear in mind that this answer will have whole series spoilers so I will put it below the cut.

On one hand, the end of Fools Fate featured the Fool leaving Fitz so he can have a hetero happily ever after with Molly, telling him that he’ll never be able to offer him what she can. When people objected to this because of the buildup of Fitz and the Fools relationship through TM and the resurrection scene in particular, Robin Hobb wrote a very angry blog post. In it, she said that Fitz and the Fool were just like childhood best friends, that portraying their relationship as romantic invalidates Fitz and Molly, and people who didn’t like the ending were just angry that they didn’t have sex. She also railed against fanfic and said some pretty offensive things about how for Fitz to be involved with a man, he would have to be gay and it would cheapen his history with women (apparently bisexuals don’t exist.) This got a lot of backlash needless to say and convinced a lot of older fans that she’s homophobic, which you still hear sometimes.

THAT SAID in Rain Wild Chronicles, she put a gay character at the center and gave him a (honestly terrible imo but it has its supporters) romance. This seemed like a possible apology to fans who were angry about the blog post. In the final trilogy, the Fool returns and it’s a mixed bag. On one hand, she portrays Fitz and Mollys life together as lonely, and Fitz misses the Fool fiercely and lacks any true friends without him. On the other hand, when the Fool does return, he’s been horrifically tortured into insanity, is (mistakenly tbf) stabbed by Fitz, rejected by his daughter, and is generally miserable for the entire trilogy. It felt mean spirited and there are people who have theorized it was motivated by spite towards people who didn’t like the separation. idk if I believe that because it came out at a time when grimdark was very popular in the genre, but it is out there.

As I mentioned earlier, Fitz and Molly’s youngest daughter, Bee, is also the Fools child through magic and his successor as White Prophet, which is pretty loaded. Fitz coming to accept that the Fool is her father too and that they should raise her together is actually a major plot point. Their relationship is also repeatedly shown as being Fitzs priority in this trilogy: he writes the Fool intensely emotional letters that he never sends during his years at Withywoods, he leaves Bee behind to save the Fool and then to care for him when he nearly dies, he passes as a couple with Amber while they’re in Kelsingra and Bingtown.

Most importantly, in the end, when he’s dying and carving his memory stone wolf to go into the Skill stream like Verity did, he chooses the Fool to go with him. Not only that, but Bee tells the Fool that she resented him because she thought that Fitz loved him more than he ever loved anyone else, including her. You could def debate if that’s the truth, but it was very charged, and it was on the last few pages, so it was the endgame. It is all very ambiguous and something she hasn’t spoken on outside of the text of the actual book since the TM era. Personally, I just go by what’s in the text, not anything extraneous Hobb said.

[sophiaforevs]

Anyone else getting really disillusioned with Trek lately? Disco cancelled without notice, Paramount's greedy business decisions and not just canning Prodigy but removing it entirely, Picard's queer erasure... I'm just... like it hurts not only because these are shows I care about but it hurts extra because trek is specifically about being better than bigotry and greed. But we're on the precipice of something and I don't feel like it's something good.

Like, I really wonder if we're about to enter a "no gays in trek" period again. Matalas apparently worked very closely with Rick Berman back in the '90s and if you're not aware of all the bullshit he instituted you can check out this post. Discovery is great for queer rep, but of course it's ending after the fourth season. Picard completely erased the Seven/Rafi relationship. Like, they didn't just needlessly break them up, they went out of their way to keep them from being on camera together too much. Strange New Worlds has potentially two queer characters, Ortega and Chapel, but so far I don't think it's been confirmed on screen that either of them are queer (IIRC, the only mention was in "Spock Amok" where they mentioned something about having a great night with some girls but only in a way that could easily be dismissed by someone who didn't want to acknowledge their queerness).

And I just feel like Paramount looked at it's audience and thought to themselves It doesn't look like we'll be able to keep both the old cishet white men and everyone else so we'll have to pick one and they chose the men. So right now, I'm afraid for Ortega's life. I fully expect them to either not let her be canonically gay or if they do she'll be dead within the episode. I'm afraid that when we finally get a Captain Seven show, they won't let their show lead be a queer woman, and it'll mostly be about Jack saving the day.

And I'm just... what do you do when the show that is explicitly supposed to be about taking a "special delight in differences in ideas and differences in life forms" basically says they don't want you anymore?

[amageish]

So, Felicia Hardy mentions having a girlfriend in Marvel's Spider-Man 2 and this has resulted in a lot of discussion... I wanna talk about it!

One thing I find really interesting about the conversation is that so many articles discussing it credit Felicia's bisexuality to this moment from 2021, where she and Odessa Drake have an on-panel kiss followed by an off-panel one-night-stand.

While this is pretty friggin' gay and good for them, I feel like reducing the story to "Black Cat kissed a girl in 2021 and that's why she has a girlfriend in the video game" is missing a lot of the larger context... so let's discuss some of the history of Felicia Hardy, AKA the chaotic crime bisexual Black Cat.

Felicia Hardy debuted in 1979. Tamara Blake, her "oldest friend" and female lover, first appeared in 1984, only 5 years later, debuting in the Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man Annual "Cat and Mouse."

Dropping by for a night of "harmless frolic," Tamara robs Felicia, aiming to play a game of cat-and-mouse with her friend. While their relationship is not explicitly romantic in this story, Tamara is portrayed as very close to her ex-partner-in-crime and very familiar with her relationship habits. She is surprised by the reveal that Black Cat is trying to settle down with Spider-Man - and to be skeptical about if Felicia will be able to tie herself down to one man... almost as if she knows Felicia has a pattern of behaviour when it comes to monogamy.

I don't know if this story was intentionally gay or not, but it would be used as a foundation for later queer storytelling about Felicia, so it seems worth mentioning it here!

What is pretty explicit, however, is Felicia's relationship with her partner Diana in the 2002 Spider-Girl series. They are just called partners, not lovers, but the framing and discussion of it is obvious enough that, in my opinion, if you know that gay people exist and can accept the possibility of them being gay, then you probably will read this and go "Oh, yeah, they are gay."

This story does not take place in Earth-616 and is primarily focused on Mayday Parker as Spider-Girl and Felicity Hardy as Scarlet Spider, but Felicity does have two moms - and we love that for her!

Jumping ahead a bit, Tamara returned via flashback in Black Cat #10, released in 2020, and this fleshed out their backstory together. It revealed how they trained together under Black Fox as their mentor and clearly shows them using slight-of-hand to hold hands and canoodle without Fox noticing what they're up to.

This is just a super-cute panel to me. That's such a clever use of slight-of-hand; I love it so much...

The next year, in Black Cat Vol 2 #3, there's a vision of Black Cat surrounded by a harem of her lovers, which includes Tamara and Odessa alongside several of her more famous male affairs.

Shortly thereafter, she kissed Odessa on the lips, as discussed earlier. In case the earlier evidence was not enough for you, Felicia Hardy is now formally unquestionably a girl-kisser. We even later get to see her and Drake's one-night-stand via flashback, in case there was any lingering doubts about what happened.

However, it also doesn't end there. It's not like Felicia just kissed a women, Marvel patted themselves on the back, and now she's been back to dating Peter Parker exclusively. There are plenty of comic characters who have had one defining "queer moment" and mum's been the word on their queerness since then... Felicia, meanwhile, is very loudly bisexual.

Immediately, she got a Pride variant cover in 2021 and has been on at least one cover every year since. My favourite is probably this one from 2022, which is both very poly and also features Peter Parker... I'm sure if you'd ask Marvel corporate they'd say he is just there as an ally, but it's still funny to me.

In 2021, she was the character used for the grand return of Jessie Drake (Felicia really has a thing for women with last names that end with -ake, apparently). Jessie was Marvel's first explicitly transgender character, debuting all the way back in 1992. After getting off to a rocky start, Felicia blows up a building with Jessie's help and they go out for dinner.

(This story was not followed up on as the book it was supposed to lead into got cancelled. Drake has not so much as cameoed since. F in the chat for Jessie Drake).

In 2022, there was an 5-issue mini-series all about Tony Stark and Felicia bonding over their mutual problem of supervillain ex-girlfriends trying to murder them. Of the two halves of the pair, Felicia gets the better deal - Tamara not only teams up with Felicia and Tony to fight Tony's ex, but they do so much flirting that Tony forgets that are not currently dating.

And, finally, in 2023, there was another Felicia story in a Pride issue wherein she hooked up with a pseudo-diety and also worked with Gambit to fuck with some transphobes in the process. Good for them!

This is not by any means a definitive list of everything gay Felicia has done - she famously flirts with MJ and Cindy a lot, for instance - but I hope it provides some larger context to Felicia's sexuality in the game.

Moreover, I hope it shows that queer storytelling isn't always about writing a single gay kiss that generates headlines. A lot of Marvel and DC queer storytelling that goes viral isn't the actual multi-issue multi-comic-run queer stuff; it's the one big kiss or something subtextual that happens to feature MCU heroes with better SEO then people like Felicia have... and I think it's the more under-the-radar stuff that's often more valuable.

[heloflor]

Was thinking a bit about how “The Devil’s Playhouse” has a lot more comedy than people make it out to be, and while especially thinking about “The Penal Zone” I realized this episode is actually very very very very gay. Like, I’m pretty sure it’s the Telltale episode with the highest amount of gay moments (205 is second on this list, what with Sam getting catcalled by a moleman, Max flirting with Mr. Reaperphone, the whole bachelor party, Peppers etc).

I think what I really like about those moments is that it’s a great example of normalization. The characters are incredibly casual about it, talking about gay relationships the exact same way one would talk about straight relationships, it’s really neat to see! Especially considering that this game was made in 2010, a whooping 5 years before gay marriage was legal in the whole US. It's crazy and great how much they were able to get away with!

(Screenshots of all these moments with timestamps (and quotes) under the cut. To have as little pics as possible, only a small section of each dialogue is taken. And to have a limit of two screenshots per pic max, some dialogues that are cut in two parts in-game have the second part pasted under the first. The timestamps puts you at the beginning of each conversation. All footage from NapalmX717 with the screenshots in chronological order of this video)

Max: “What can I say, Sam? Alien ships love to abduct me. It’s not my fault I look so probe-able.” (9:44)

Sam: “Nice work, little buddy! Make sure you wait three days to call, or he’ll thing you’re desperate.” (11:47)

Max: “Well, he IS pretty charismatic, Sam. And he’s from space, which is a plus. But you’re the only hairy, overweight, domineering control freak I need, Sam.” (20:38)

Sam: “I don’t need to go to another planet for a methane rich environment, as long as I’ve got you, pal.”

Max: “That’s really sweet and obvious, Sam.” (22:46)

Skun-ka’pe: “Perfect! Just the one I wanted to see ha ha ha ha!”

Sam: “Keep the hands where we can see ‘em, pal.” (23:36)

Max: “We could just give ourselves tongue-baths, like cats and flight attendants do!” (30:57)

Sam: “Why do we have jumper cables? Neither of us knows how to use them.”

Max: “It’s simple, Sam: the RED cable goes on the RIGHT nipple, the BLACK cable clamps to the…” (34:42)

Max: “Oh boy! Now I can finally set up my 24-hours adults-only naked bunny chat line.” (34:58)

Sam: “Toys...Toys… we must prepare… the toys….”

Max: “Well, that’s just a typical Friday night for YOU, Sam.” (36:45)

Flint Paper: “Oh. Well yeah, that could be it. I was thinking it was you, Sam!”

Max: “You think you know a guy. I’m not angry, Sam, just very disappointed.” (1:03:49)

(For context they’re talking about who might be Girl Stinky’s secret admirer)

Max: “I can’t lie to Flint Paper, Sam!” (1:05:20)

Max: “What kind of pretend mother would I be if I didn’t worry about our imaginary baby?” (1:10:31)

Momma Bosco: “Oh, it’s not all bad. I’m getting better at apparating. And now I don’t leave a trail of ectoplasmic slime behind every time I leave the room.”

Max: “That’s better than Sam can say.” (1:23:13)

Sam: “I’m not gonna rest until I find the guy who killed my partner!” (1:43:13)

Max: “Wow. I feel really very close to you now, Agent Superball.” (1:45:33)

Sam: “I don’t like the thought of you teleporting off without me, Max.” (1:46:33)

Max: “Sam, this is all so sudden! I… I don’t know what to say!” (2:07:10)

Sam: “I think one of us should try to smash through that window with his rock-hard, melon-sized head.”

Max: “And I think one of us should try the door, unless he wants to spend the rest of the day picking plate glass out of his partner’s fluffy white nether regions.” (2:17:00)

Girl Stinky: “Sam and Max? Don’t tell me Skun-ka’pe wants YOU guys to be his love slaves, too?” (2:24:48)

Girl Stinky: “Eww. He wishes. He’s SO not my type. You only have to date an evil gorilla once to learn never to make THAT mistake again.”

Max: “We’ve all been there, girlfriend.” (2:25:07)

Girl Stinky: “Gee, it sounds like YOU two should go out with him. Would you like me to give you guys some privacy?” (2:27:33)

Max: “You’re my best friend, Sam! I know you’d take a bullet for me!” (2:31:02)

Sam: “You keep coming up with creepy disaster scenarios that always end with you eating me, Max. It’s getting annoying.”

Max: “If you don’t like it, then stop looking so damn tasty.” (2:38:11)

Max: “Think of something quick, Sam. I don’t like the way he’s undressing me with his eyes.” (2:53:22)

[iammissingautumn]

(@seregashockingly I’m gonna drop my general Style stuff relating to ur ask and reply to my post here since i wanna explain more Kyle Feelings moments)

Okay so the thing is, Stan encourages this codependent ideas in their relationships. From early one when he says Kyle can’t die without him we see that he has this insane view of their relationship. They both kinda do. The thing is, as all things go Stan is the more emotional of the two. Meanwhile Kyle had to figure out how he’s felt about most things pretty young, and with a lot of simplicity. That’s what allows him to be so okay with defending those who need it, he has strong morals that he trusts.

The thing about Stan encouraging codependent ideas towards them is that he’s also the one who has a girlfriend. And Stan is so bad at processing emotions that he throws up every time he’s faced with these feelings. Stan also has outside pressures like that of his father’s to conform (mostly specifically to the idea of being a man and what that “means”). Which Randy does in a lot of diffferent ways, I.E. Stanley’s Cup.

Though one of the main things about Stan is that the adults are being insane wackos and he thinks they’re being stupid. And he’s right but we see these kind of things leaving an imprint on him. His superhero persona is someone who works with tools, more “traditional” ideas of manhood relate to being able to upkeep the house car etc. He has rip sleeves and tries to seem tough but it’s very hard when his dad is keying their own car. On top of this, his SOT character is a knight meant to protect the king. Knights often have to be sworn in, seen to be risking their life in the name of being a protector. Which, including how he presents, the idea of a protector is also a very “masculine” “tradition”.

Yet, we don’t see this come in through other ways. He’s not toxic masculinity-ing his life. He doesn’t dedicate his days to playing every sport ever, physically fighting, or trying to prove his strength. He doesn’t have that insecurity that is more apparent in someone like Cartman. But there’s tinges of small things, and I do think most of his compensation and possible shame or complexes comes back to his sexuality.

Meanwhile, Kyle is confident in his religion, his self expression, and his personality. Sometimes we see this swayed (I.e. Passion of the Jew and South Park is Gay!), but I think his relationship to Judaism really helped him be able to have the confidence to be okay with other parts of himself. Especially since he has the support of his mother being such a big force in his life to encourage him to be himself. And though Shelia has her own problems she definitely shows Kyle she loves him for himself and wants him to be that person. (The crux of both of them is that they don’t want to veer into being “bad” and need to stay good. In the movie we see her thinking foul mouth tv shows are the “bad” thing. She’s always been particularly accepting despite the sometimes black and white thinking.)

So from this I picture the standard Style idea is that, in some sort of way Stan is repressing his queerness. This probably doesn’t help with the fact he has had depression and has an addictive personality. He can bury his queerness under all of this. But we see within him there’s this want or maybe a need to go towards those who don’t conform. As we see when he adopts the Raven personality for the point in time where he’s goth.

But there’s this level where Stan’s been how he’s always been. Loving his best friend, and them not shying from it. He thinks this is how you should see your best friend, both him and Kyle think this. The thing is at some point Kyle figures out This Isn’t Everyone’s Relationship To Their Best Friend. Which is probably a middle or high school realization that turns into a very changing thing. And I think whether Kyle assumes that Stan doesn’t like him because of something like his reputation with relationships in the past Nichole, Heidi, Rebecca, or The List situation which is just. hurtful even after the truth comes out.

Insert Stan doing something dumb, a drunk confession, a kiss, he throws up, some sort of blatant obvious “Stan’s In Love” marker that changes Kyle’s mind. Stan’s in denial about it (perhaps leads Kyle on 👀) and it causes some pains that they later have to unpack. And maybe that means they kiss or smth none of my business. Maybe this involves Kyle helping Stan sober up, maybe it involves Stan cleaning up and calling Kyle trying to reconnect, maybe this involves Stan realizing he’s so fucking stupid and in love with his best friend and he should have realized sooner because now they’re separating because they’re graduating or something. Or maybe they’re in middle school and Kyle tells Stan to stop talking to him because he’s being mean about his feelings. Or maybe Kyle just silently isolates himself from Stan. There’s a lot of loose spots so the story can change depending on the point in their lives or the story being wished to be told. But that’s the general classic idea for me.

[elacular-kink]

Poly-Techhic character sheet

For readers' reference, here's some descriptions and basic info about the main four characters of Poly-Techhic. (This may be edited later on).

Edit: This character sheet's formatting is completely borked. Go to this one instead, it's actually readable.

Susanna Jane Butler

Also called Susan and Susie

Appearance:

4'10" (147 cm)

Very average weight and build

Tan skin

Chinese

Adopted by American Catholics.

Short, straight black hair

Bangs can fall over eyes.

Wears baggy clothes

Almost always has on a baggy hoodie with the hood up.

Neurotypical (I think?)

(The author isn't, so...)

Extremely gay

Sophomore (AKA, 2nd year)

Loves and is studying music

Plays multiple instruments

Piano

Guitar

Sings well

Learned how to sing in kids choir in her church.

Is way less cool than she looks or acts

Is cooler than she thinks she is.

Is great at telling people off

Is terrible at telling people good things.

Has a hiccup fetish.

Has been like this as long as she can remember.

Has extremely big emotions and anxiety about it.

She's not able to get off without it.

Olivia Elizabeth Jones

Appearance

5'9" (175 cm)

Skinny

Isn't skinny on purpose, just naturally doesn't develop much fat.

Annoyed when people conflate thinness with health.

Very dark skin

Black (African American)

Nearly buzzed black hair

4C texture

Uses reading glasses

Keeps them around her neck on a chain for practicality

Everyone else says it makes her look like an old lady.

Wears very practical clothes.

All fabrics must be soft and/or smooth.

Clothes are generally tight. She dislikes having clothes that hang loose.

Doesn't care about how butch or femme it is.

Autistic

Very blunted affect

Sincerely emotes only for huge feelings.

Still feels things when not emoting, just doesn't move her face much about it.

Hates social niceties

Is overly honest with people

Aromantic

Does not feel or have a great understanding of romantic attraction.

Can still identify it in others

Bisexual with a female lean.

Considers Susanna her life partner, but does not consider her a girlfriend.

"See, this is why I explain it with 'it's complicated', Olivia."

Does consider Maya a girlfriend

"It means something different to her, and I can do that."

Sophomore (AKA, 2nd year)

Gets the hiccups all the time.

Doesn't generally mind them.

Has been shunned or punished for them in the past.

Thinks this is stupid.

This is part of why Susanna has been her best friend.

Almost nothing cures them.

No apparent medical reason, she's just very hiccupy.

Kind of a troll

People don't expect it from her since she seems so serious.

Primary victims are Susanna and Maya.

Extremely emotionally perceptive

Maya Heffernan

Appearance

5'4" (163 cm)

Feels taller because of her personality.

Also just often wears cleats

Both very muscular and very chubby

Built like a professional weightlifter.

Is capable of lifting weights like a professional weightlifter.

Is basically a physical freak with absurd strength, speed, and endurance.

Exercises constantly.

White

Ridiculously pale (Irish ancestry)

Covered in orange and brown freckles

Massive mane of curly red hair

Sheds red hairs everywhere.

Wears glasses

Including when playing rugby

Has prescription sports goggles

Hates getting things in her eyes=no contacts.

Almost always wears her rugby uniform.

She's number 7, the openside flanker

So she gets to tackle people!

A lot!

Dresses very butch outside of it.

ADHD

Takes adderall occasionally when she needs to focus

Does not like how she feels on it.

Solo-poly

Wants to avoid becoming overly dependent on someone or having them become dependent on her.

Still enjoys having romantic and sexual relationships with many people.

Keeps most relationships at arm's length.

Only forms closer relationships with other people with big poly energy.

Has gaydar, but for polyamorous tendencies.

Pansexual

Not all pansexuals are sluts. But she is.

Fucks lots of women, men, and other types of people.

("But where are the men?" They're offscreen somewhere, shut up.)

Junior (AKA, 3rd year.)

Gives people nicknames

Whether they want them or not.

Will relent if they genuinely hate them.

Eventually...

Susanna=Susie

Olivia=Liv

Kiran=Kiki

Chaos agent

Loves to disrupt people's lives.

Often for the better, sometimes for the worse, almost always for both.

Genuinely thinks this is fun and wants others to have fun too.

Actively trolls people

Frequently goes too far.

Extremely easily bored.

Will cause problems when bored.

If there's nobody to cause problems for, will cause problems for herself.

Really fucking stupid.

Under no illusions about this.

Has always struggled with academia

Has no common sense

Has no impulse control

Is still alive because she's impossible to kill

Kiran Mandal

Appearance

6'1" (185 cm)

Very fat

Deep brown skin

Indian American

One parent is first generation, one parent is second.

Long black hair.

Wants to do interesting things with it, is too nervous to try.

Always wears a dress or a skirt.

Has yet to figure out what her fashion sense is, has been fairly conservative thus far.

Autistic

Terrified of eye contact

Often makes it anyway due to masking.

Always tries to "win" eye contact.

Has a lot of difficulty socializing

Has very little experience doing so, which doesn't help.

Particularly with people her own age.

Extremely socially anxious and shy.

Stims and makes repetitive movements

Used to make a lot of sounds with her mouth, had that mostly trained out of her.

Has never been able to stop flapping when anxious or happy.

Is extremely embarrassed by this.

Sees it as a personal failing.

Trans

MtF

Is on hormones

Has not been on them long.

Not very secure in her womanhood

Is rarely accidentally misgendered.

If someone misgendered her on purpose, the other three would kill them.

Uncertain sexuality

Definitely likes girls.

Definitely really really really really really likes girls.

Freshman (1st year)

Really academically smart

Brilliant at the vast majority of what would be considered "nerd shit".

Particularly likes computer programming.

(Forgive me for my trans woman stereotype.)

Has studied under professional tutors all her life.

Speaks English and Hindi fluently, is proficient in Spanish

Currently being tutored and learning Mandarin.

(please don't expect me to know anything about any of these languages, German is super close to English and I'm still not learning jack shit).

Has very little "street smarts"

Very limited practical knowledge of the world.

Family is stupid rich

Probably some tech sector shit.

Dad may be an insufferable tech bro.

She has access to a shitload of money.

She has no idea what money is actually worth, but is self-aware about that.

Has been insulated from a lot of normal people's experiences because of that

[hcfiles]

He spent so much time staging, so much effort creating a persona, to have it destroyed in the first week of this shenanigan PR. For years, they made sure articles were published, interviews were staged bringing (fake?) info about him, his hobbies, girlfriends and especially his Character, selling him as a Humpty Dumpty (dubious).

Now, all that material is being questioned and has been used against him. The straight womanizer gave place to the guy who staged dates to avoid being seen as gay, the gentlemanly gave place to rudeness as he starts to block people on his IG, avoids giving autographs and runs from reporters, the speeches and stories in interviews are, now, pointed as idiotic lies. Now, everything goes through a microscope and the dubious gave place to fake.

Differently from the original story, Dr. Frankenstein seems to be in total control of his creature. Whoever created Henry Cavill was always in control. The creature doesn't bother. As long as cash continues falling in his account to pay for his vanities and for expensive and silly hobbies. Of course, having all that money followed by an Ego massage practiced by fans, is much better. But, apparently, he won't be able to have both.

He will be sad for a while, but money and visibility (the celeb complex) will speak louder. As long as he has a role and continues partying, playing his silly games and spending in fancy suits he will be pleased. What he doesn't realize is that roles, money and fans' messages come together. If there are no fans, there are no significant roles, money will be low and visibility (the reason why they insisted on this trashy PR stunt with a promiscuous) will be gone.

But, apparently, his team is, now, and discretely, trying to make him look like an unfriendly, unsympathetic and unpleasant celeb, like JLo. Or an actor who distances himself from fans, like GC and AJ. Why? Is that the other option they found to replace the fake dates? Can't he be a celeb for something really meaningful?

Where are all those campaigns promoting fake health (MT) and love for animals (Was that even true?) and his hometown (Durell)? Why not continue the ambassador of something really meaningful and important, instead of parading with promiscuous, sl*t and gullible for fame women? The way he stopped all his promotional PRs gives the idea he had decided to start from scratch with a new persona and management (who might turn him into the kind of actor who heads a foundation for money).

Why not have a real cause to start with? How about doing PR stunts promoting things he really believes in and not just stuff for money and fame? How about representing a significant cause that would really help and is meaningful? Like being the voice of many? He could start promoting mental health, for a change, speaking in the name of children, against bullying, for example. But, not while mocking, bullying and gaslighting fans.

Notice he never leaves his comfort zone. Promoting Durell is promoting home. It was always safe. But, I'm sure there are other more significant causes to promote that could give him much more visibility and the status of a SS or an AJ. The problem is he doesn't like to commit to bigger things, 'cause it makes him uncomfortable. And he has no emotional IQ to deal with those. He always has to be in his comfort zone.

Henry Cavill is emotionally very weak, afraid and insecure. Acting was a pleasant and profitable way he managed to deal with his insecurities. He could be considered an ignorant for never being in college for a degree. He didn't go to the army, maybe because of emotional limitations. He never commits to serious and real relationships, only to staged and fake ones. The self-confident man he portrays doesn't exist and he has been showing it.

The impression is that the new management, with or without DG - He's with a new agency that bought the old one he was with -, seems to be the reason for some of the changes. But, this transition was a disaster. Because, DG did her best, according to how she sees acting management. But, it wasn't enough.

She overwhelmingly enhanced the sex symbol model image, but, significantly belittled the actor. The result was, of course, a tarnished image of himself. It was easier to push his pretty face and hot body rather than make him a better actor. She might be a great business woman (what I doubt, for I think that is a fake image, as well), but as a manager she surely, left a lot behind to be desired.

And her lack of response to everything that has been happening by addressing it to his fans, shows that: or the circus created was a reckless first attempt of the new agency or she is really a sloppy manager and gives a f**k to her client's integrity.

[butchtwelfthdoctor]

i got peer reviewed on this post by @pikechris (sorry for the tag hope you dont mind) but still had way more thoughts hehe anyways i was gonna leave tags but it got pretty long sooo those tags and the rest of my Thoughts under the cut cos damn this did get really really long

i looked in the replies of that post & people you're not getting it he didnt kiss rory with romantic feeling behind rory was just there and eleven got excited about something else and rory visibly looks weirded out afterwards. it was practically eleven kissing as stimming. like when he kissed jenny. it wasnt out of romantic feelings at all he knows madame vastra would kill him & he isnt interested he was just happy to be able to move after the crimson horror thingy. kissing rory was also played as a joke it was a funny haha yknow. i also dont remember eleven kissing the james corden character but like whatever i cant imagine that being meaningful in any way either.

OH in the same way that nardole having a crush on twelve (canon btw nardole practically says as much is played as a joke. like with the post i mention above, like thats played as a joke because can you imagine the cool very beautiful twelfth doctor having romantic or sexual feelings towards nardole, who is literally, as missy puts it, comic relief? i dont think that its queer is a part of that but idk it might be.

but in any case. the doctor hasnt kissed or been kissed by a man with romantic intent onscreen since 2005. we COULD have had a thirteen and yaz kiss but we didnt which is i think why? people forget? about them? doctor was confimred queer she had lesbian attraction but nothing really. happened about it. so yeah. also apparently a lot of people didnt watch thirteen like cmonnnnnnnnnnn it really isnt as bad as people make it out to be.

twelve kissed missy who was probably the only person he would have kissed at that point. he's horrified when she kisses him before he knows who she is but then the very next episode he kisses her in a... if not exactly romantic a very emotionally charged way. and she knows that. we dont see them kiss again even as their relationship grows more and more romantically inclined (which i actually support any amount of canon thoschei conventional romance would probably be. bad and kill the appeal immediately) because like i said. she turns every dead body on earth into a cyberman then lies about where gallifrey is then fakes her own death then tries to get the doctor to kill clara then he leaves her on skaro iirc then he is supposed to kill her but doesnt and instead locks her in a vault for ~70 years but its okay cos they have takeaway food in there together sometimes. and then world enough and time / the doctor falls happens which i cant even start talking about or i'll never stop & thirteen was 1) aroace and 2) too emotionally repressed to even get close to kissing Anyone, let alone the master after all the timeless child stuff, even though she probably?? wanted to kiss yaz?? a bit??? at least?? yaz wanted to kiss her but there was too much emotional repression going on on both sides but mainly the doctor Which Brings Me To My Point.

Fifteen is the most, shall we say, flirty doctor we've had for a while, and Ncuti is also the first openly queer actor to play the doctor on tv, and while of course everyone on tumblr is Very familiar with all of the ways the doctor is queer (and neurodivergent) without any need for the show to specifically say so, it is really really great that a) the doctor is played by a gay actor b) there are more queer characters and c) we got an actual episode where The Doctor Is Gay With A Man. especially after the. somewhat odd. way yaz & thirteen's relationship was dealt with at the end of thirteen's run, which even though was a queer relationship was like....... not really. shown. they just talked about it. and had icecream. okayyy i guesssssssssss

BUt NOW fifteen gets an entire episode where his mutual attraction to another male character (assuming the doctor is actually a man, pretty sure i read somewhere Ncuti was he/they-ing the doctor but he might have meant the doctor in general, not just fifteen) is a Main Focus of the episode. its the main tension, the main drama, the main interest - you pretty much know from the 'okay we'll teleport the chuldur away' that thats whats going to happen, and i for one went 'oh my god rouge is going to get teleported' from the moment the doctor fixed it to carry six. the Main Focus is now their flirting, their dynamic, the way Those Two Interact, their almost kiss (which the doctor was so ready to duck out of as soon at the thing beeped, but you can tell by the look on rouge's face that he's for sure trying that again later). the doctor showing actual episode-arc spanning romantic interest in a character, let alone a specifically queer one... that doesnt happen a lot.

(the girl in the fireplace has a lot of superficial similarities, though you could also argue that madame de pompadour was far more romantically into ten than he was into her. thirteen's characteristically very awkward attempt at flirting towards yaz in the sea devils special didnt have nearly as much focus on it)

but really the point is the doctor was kissed! for the first time on tv in ten years!!!! and it was a queer kiss!! and that romance was The Major Part of the episode!! the doctor doctorwho was gay kissing a man on out television screens after a genuinely quite good build up!!!!!!!!!!! it would of of course be amazing if rouge makes another appearance (i think he will, most likely in a later season instead of the next 2 eps), and even better if we had a longer arc of that romance, but we got it!!! actual canonical queer romance for the doctor!! their first canon kiss in like at least a couple hundred years of their life, and while i am an aspec doctor who believer there are 100% time when he feels attraction and this was for sure one if them. and it was really beautiful & emotional & the flirting was fun & rouge was a good character & their dynamic was really good and yay!!!!

[heretherebedork]

My deepest fear for Playboyy is that everyone is going to get a happy ending and I am going to regret watching this show because so many of them don't deserve the happy ending the show is writing them towards (or even the happiness the show has already given them) because fuck this if Boston ends up with the worst ending that Den has written I am going to be so pissed off you don't even understand.

How the fuck was Boston the best written promiscuous character when the other show is literally written about sex workers? Oh, wait, it's because the treatment of sex worker's sex is very, very different than chosen casual sex by the writers. Casual sex is fine if you're being paid for it and you need the money but if you're just doing it for enjoyment? Nope! Not allowed! Absolutely forbidden.

I went into this for messy gays with mixed endings so why the fuck is the couple that started with horrifying blackmail and where all the growth happened off-screen getting the sappiest, simplest ending of the whole bunch!? Why.

And why is the show suddenly deadset of villainizing Zouey and turning him into the worst person and having Teena staring at Captain? Why did First and Soong already just... forget about First's father who apparently doesn't matter any more? I appreciate that Keen got Captain kicked out but why make sure he also hurt Puen? Why did Zouey have to apologize for calling them monsters when First literally admitted to Soong he was being a monster and felt he had to make it up to Puen but Zouey still had to beg on his knees and not get forgiven?

sgjkgdf this show is like a punishment made specifically for me.

(Particularly how the show cannot seem to make the connection between kink and romance and, in fact, seems to have placed them in diametric opposition to each other and all the kink vanishes the instant romance enters the chat particularly for the subs in the relationships who are rarely there by choice and never seem to be able to say no without saying no to all of it and are often forced into places of being hurt by the Dom despite talk of safe words. The sub never chooses to be kinky, it is always forced on them by the Dom and they regularly express being 'tired' of being kinky or hating it and it is quickly removed from the relationship when they get serious.)

[utilitycaster]

I’m I the only one who finds it alarming that most of this fandom who ship Imogen and Laudna (especially on twitter) don’t realize the unhealthyness thats going on in their relationship? They literally see two women to are affectionate with each other and say “ENDGAME!” “GIRLFRIENDS!” “MARRIED!” “KISS KISS KISS!” Then they focus on quotes that are kinda alarming, and Imogen’s Jealousy is pretty fucking Alarming! Saying that they are in love and just haven’t realized it yet. (Don’t get me started on that one blog on here counting down the days “till imodna realizes their in love.” I find it so fucking annoying.) Loving someone and being IN love with someone is two different things. Also another thing! I HATE THAT PEOPLE CALL THEM LESBIANS! THE BOTH HAVE EXPRESSED FEELINGS FOR MALE PERSENTING PEOPLE! I dread the day when the campaign ends and they don’t end up together or during the campaign fall IN love with someone that’s not each other. Especially if it’s a male persenting person, because the Laura and Marisha will be harassed and the shippers will yell Queerbait, also the men hating/haters will be in full force. 

Hi anon,

I agree with most of this; I'm answering under a cut in the hopes that people who will be upset by an answer will be able to avoid it, without me having to explicitly discourse tag it and in doing so throw it to people who troll that tag to get mad at things. Also this is SUPER long and covers a lot of the thoughts I've had percolating on the CR fandom/shipping culture in general.

I think I and a lot of people who primarily deal in meta/analysis in this fandom have been inching ever closer to a lot of the points you've made here, and I am generally very willing to be the one who snaps and says "yeah has anyone noticed the emperor has literally no clothes on like what the fuck".

Let's start with the end and work backwards: It's happened before, it will happen again if Laura and Marisha's characters do not get together, and it's irritating, but like, I will take a good story and the consequences of a shitty segment of the fandom rather than the path of least resistance every time. I almost said something to this effect on the positive vibes ask last night, but like...there will always be people who are hateful and stupid on the internet, so you may as well stand in your own truth rather than fear their consequences. (Not that I don't respect the choice to quietly avoid harassment; I am the way I am because I know at this point I can take a pretty hard hit and shut it down, but that has not always been the case.) Anyway, people called an actual canon ship between lesbian characters queerbaiting last campaign, so it's not like those accusations hold any weight or need to be taken seriously; outside of their tiny circle, everyone thinks those people are idiots.

I do, as a bi woman, hate the tendency among hardcore shippers to erase bisexuality. They do it because a bi character's competing ships cannot be as easily dismissed as 'obviously can't happen, they're gay or lesbian', and they don't care how biphobic they look doing it. You are absolutely correct: Imogen and Laudna have both indicated interest in men or masc nb people. (Others have also pointed out that people tend to exclusively use he/him pronouns about Ashton when they are being critical of them, so they don't care how transphobic they look doing it either, apparently; also I don't think Ashton identifies as a he/they lesbian but there are in fact people who do identify as such so like...if your goal is to eliminate Ashton/Laudna as an option by saying Laudna is a lesbian, against all evidence to the contrary, you also need to make a number of presumptions about Ashton's sexuality and gender identity as well.)

This brings me to a tricky section about fandom in general but I think it's worth saying. In the real world, homophobia and transphobia are very real. They negatively impact our lives in heartbreaking and deadly ways. It is still the norm in most US media for the bulk of relationships shown to be between a cis man and a cis woman, and for protagonists to be cis and straight (note: also often able-bodied, male, white, etc but the focus of this discussion is queerness so I'm not covering all axes of oppression). However, in many fandom spaces, queer characters and ships are the fan favorites. Tumblr's userbase does skew heavily queer, and additionally, tends to skew towards women. In other words, a lot of things that are very true in real life do not hold in fandom spaces.

Which is to say: we're in a situation where an F/F ship is the massive juggernaut for the fandom right now. It does not mean that lesbians (or bi women who enter into relationships with other women) are not oppressed in the real world; it does mean that within the highly specific space of the Critical Role fandom, people are more likely to be in favor of this ship than not. It also means that a lot of the people who aren't into it are not homophobes, but are queer people - often even wlw - who are saying "I would like F/F ships! I would like them to actually be good." Like, to me, the only difference between Imogen and Laudna and every M/F canon relationship on network TV that's made me go "you're telling me they should be together, but I don't see it" is that they're both women (and I would bet a large sum that for a lot of people, this isn't about the dynamic, but purely about the gender of the people involved, ie, if Imogen were a man played by one of the men in the cast people wouldn't ship it, where as I personally can comfortably say I'd ship any of the canon ships from past campaigns regardless of character gender. This also admits that biological essentialism is fake and that Exandria is pretty gender equalthough, which some people don't want to do.)

Part of why I've been so frustrated is that, at least from my perspective, the overwhelming majority of hate and harassment I've seen within the fandom in Campaign 3 - and in Campaign 2 - has been from people who have shipped Marisha and Laura's characters. There has, in fact, been pretty considerable hate as well as measured criticism levied towards M/F ships (we're seeing some with Ashton/Laudna here, but both Fjord/Jester and Caleb/Jester, the latter of which I actively dislike and have openly criticized, received pretty vehement hate last campaign and most of it came from people who shipped Jester with Beau) and M/M ships (less harassment per se but people who shipped Caleb with Jester said some truly awful things about Caleb/Essek; also while I have not, you know, harassed people, I have said essentially the same things about how Taliesin and Liam's characters are shipped every campaign despite often having little connection as I have about Marisha and Laura's. I just don't talk about it as much because while I think and have said that Ashton/Orym is basically nothing - and that Widomauk, which most people vaguely classify as M/M, and for that matter, Percy/Vax, all are basically nothing - no one who ships those has called me a cunt or reblogged my posts in an abusive manner or called me out for the grave sin of preferring canon to fanon, so I respect the ship and let ship of it all.) For that matter, the bulk of hate towards Beauyasha came from people who shipped Beau and Jester. Like...I am confident there are people who dislike this ship specifically because it's between two women, and they are homophobic, but that is not the quarter where I think most of the criticism on Tumblr or Twitter is coming from.

So let's get to the last point. Why do people ship two women simply because they're standing next to each other? Why do they ignore countless red flags - and I am specifically talking about treating Imogen and Laudna's relationship as healthy and loving; not about shipping it in general. I cannot stress enough that if you treat Imogen/Laudna as some kind of toxic Briarwoods situation and are into that, I support that entirely.

There are a few reasons. First and foremost, I think a lot of people project onto characters rather than letting the characters provide them with differing perspectives. I find this deeply sad. It's not that you can't draw parallels between your own life and that of fictional characters or see yourself in them - you're supposed to! But it says something depressing about your empathy if your qualifications for which characters speak to you are only those who match your demographics. Like, I've said before, but my favorite characters from past campaigns are Vex and Fjord, and they have a lot in common! If you relate to one based on their themes of Who You Are In The Dark and the mask you present to the world over a face you don't particularly like, you will probably relate to the other! But also...I am a cis bi woman, I am not a person of color as both those characters are often considered coded to be (though am an ethnic minority), nor did I personally experience extensive emotional abuse and poverty as a child. I think there's value in wanting to see people like you! But also...representation is not just "I want to see people like me"; it's also "I want to humanize people who are not like me". If you cannot relate to someone simply because they don't match your gender or sexuality, then that's a really shallow and cold way to interact with the world. And, specifically in relation to queerness within Critical Role: this is a world that has consistently been depicted as not having homophobia or transphobia. I understand wanting to explore these themes and seeing characters who have experienced them, but like...this is not the media that will reasonably have a one-to-one portrayal of homophobia or transphobia, and you often will need to bend over backwards and project a lot of stuff that simply isn't in the canon to read that into them because the worldbuilding simply doesn't support it. And, to be clear, you can do that; but at that point you're applying a lens that only you can obtain, so you shouldn't be surprised if few people come along with you. (I also think it's kind of dumb to watch a show with 5 cis men on it, four of whom are married to women, and be mad that the story has men in it and that those men sometimes are attracted to women; unpacking this would easily double the length of this already incredibly long post though.)

So: this sets a stage for people coming into the show saying "who looks like me, or can I make to look like me" rather than engaging with what's actually going on. Part of why I've been hesitant on Imogen and Laudna the whole time, though started out much more open to it, is in fact that it was heavily shipped from quite literally the moment that Laura and Marisha were indicated to be playing two women who knew each other from before. We knew nothing about their dynamic other than "existing friendship". So I think a lot of people put the cart before the horse and started shipping, and I do think - and I could be entirely wrong - a lot of them, deep down in their hearts, know that they are twisting their interpretations to match an idea of these two characters that has increasingly been proven not to be true onscreen. Like, I think a lot of people kind of realize that Imogen is putting Laudna in a horrible position here; I think a lot of people realize that their so-called 'unconditional' love that transcends words means there's no room to resolve or even express conflict. Perhaps they don't, but like, I'd like to give people the benefit of the doubt. It's just...I think that because this ship is so all-consuming within the fandom, and because so many people have staked their identities within the fandom on it, they don't know how to leave it and are scared of retaliation if they do.

This is backed up by the slow shift I've described - Imodna started out with "they're already girlfriends" or "they're already in love but just haven't said it" or "what could ever happen other than they become ever closer and eventually kiss" (as witnessed by these questions) to "they realized they were in love during the campaign" to "Imogen is in love with Laudna but Laudna isn't aware" to "god remember how they used to talk, I'd give anything for it" to "I guess a QPR is okay" (which is itself bizarre, like, the issues I see in their relationship are still just as much issues in a nonsexual partnership as a sexual one; honestly, it's not a healthy friendship though it is an interesting one and the problem's I have are not going to be fixed by kissing.) Like, it's not the normal evolution of feelings one might have about a ship as the show goes on and more information is revealed, or rather, it's a ship that's becoming less and less confident as time goes on which is the opposite of how canon ships tend to go. (Which, I need to stress, does not discount that it could not be canon; it's just that I think it would require a pretty profound shakeup and conflict to do so). The signs and signals are becoming more and more tenuous and the shippers keep lowering and lowering the bar.

Since I've already brought up past campaigns and ships, let's do it again for the sake of illustration; this feels like how people who shipped Caleb and Jester went from ENDGAME to "Caleb is pushing away Jester to protect her" to "I think Laura is biting her lip when she's looking at Liam! This is a SIGN" even in episodes where Jester was like, actively making out with Fjord, to, and I am not making this up, posting pictures of the CR shop showing Laura in Caleb merch as evidence. Or how the bulk of Vex/Keyleth shipping in TLOVM rested on a scene in the trailer where Keyleth was staring dreamily and drunkenly into space while Vex was across the table only for the show to reveal Keyleth was staring at Vax. Like, all shipping does require a certain degree of cherrypicking, but there is a point where you are focused only on subtext and never text, and while that was how one had to interact with queer stories in the past, it's ridiculous to be doing it on a show where Marisha has openly RP-ed Beau eating Yasha out. Like, if they wanted to show two women being romantically involved, they will. (There's been a lot of Xena comparisons thrown around, and like...not that Xena isn't an important part of the history of depicting F/F relationships in media, but it is also a syndicated show from the 90s and couldn't show an explicitly lesbian relationship, and Critical Role very much can and has.)

I do think there are a subset of people who don't realize how unhealthy this is. Like...this is a whole psychological thing that I am unequipped to unpack, but I do think there are people for whatever reasons genuinely do believe that love means never having to say you're sorry. I am hoping this is because of youth and inexperience, because being able to communicate and advocate for yourself is a crucial part of relationships, as is the ability to express and resolve conflict. As you've noticed, the people who ship this have all said "well, obviously, Imogen won't betray Laudna" - but we don't know that. Honestly I think it could go either way. But they have to make that assumption to keep shipping it, because if Imogen might betray Laudna, then that does mean that there would have been more meaning and value in Laudna speaking up and that conversation was deeply flawed.

I also think some of this comes from unconditional love being an unreasonable expectation foisted upon us all at large. There are always conditions, or rather, you might always in some way love someone, but there are conditions under which you'd leave or boundaries you will draw. You can love someone who (for example) is dealing with an addiction but still refuse to let them drive while intoxicated or steal your stuff to pay for drugs. You can love someone who cheats on you but still want to end that relationship. I mean, while fear, self-doubt, and resources/logistics are all factors in people leaving abusive relationships, it's also true that a lot of people have some affection for the good times and that is a factor as well. Love is not a simple on/off switch. You can feel multiple things at once - honestly, that's what Ashton basically says this past episode, that they both love and hate the party! I think Imogen and Laudna do genuinely love each other, though I don't interpret it as romantic; I just also think that there's a lot of stuff they don't like about each other but are unable to express, and which will only become more and more of a threat to a potential romantic (or queerplatonic) relationship if left to fester unresolve. And, to be honest, I suspect real-world homophobia and fandom purity issues are part of why people are so unwilling to discuss why Imogen and Laudna's relationship is unhealthy; because it means admitting that queer relationships can have most of the same problems as straight ones, and possibly admitting that you still find an unhealthy relationship interesting and want to see it played out.

[metvmorqhoses]

Nononono waitttt what do you mean about Good Omens season 2?? Why didn't you like it?

I personally thought it was better than season 1 - better paced. There wasn't a single boring moment. And sure, the plot maybe had fewer stakes, but seeing as this was a bridge season between season 1 (the of Good Omens book) and hopefully season 3 (the book that never came out, “668” or something like that), I thought it was good. Warm & fuzzy.

I need to know your opinion now

As abashed as I am to have to respond to such enthusiasm with, well... the very opposite of enthusiasm, please at least know that I consider the truth the best thing I have to offer in general and in regard to that unfortunate (yet somehow still-untouchable?) mess the second season of Good Omens has proven itself to be in particular, so accept it as some sort of well-intended even if perhaps unwanted gift.

This is probably the most unpopular opinion one can have on Tumblr right now, so I'll go straight to the point: Gaiman managed to ruin Good Omens (perhaps he isn't able to write it by himself, perhaps he got carried away with fan service, who knows), once one of the most delightful, witty, engaging, profound books/shows existent, changing its register and raison d'être in order to turn it into, per great popular request, the same lame simple plotless cheesy cookie-cutter gay romance without rime and reason apparently every single piece of media is deforming itself into lately.

The dramatic loss of... artistic quality this show suffered is appalling and even more appalling is the fact I seem to be one of the very few on this green earth to have even noticed? Did I perhaps read too much in the show before? I don't think so, it was indeed a masterpiece. I saw many die-hard fans of the series beyond puzzled at this last season too, straining themselves to try and make sense of it with wild theories, justifying them with the simple fact that Neil Gaiman is a genius and surely this hot mess must mean something, right? I wasn't aware the world was mostly populated by hysterically besotted people hailing Neil Gaiman's alleged greatness from dawn til dusk without contextualized merit, and the discovery didn't particularly excite me, to be quite honest. I think a healthy amount of fairness in the critique of any artist should always be the norm, but I digress.

I'll try to keep it as brief and matter-of-factly as possible, especially since some time has passed and the fumes of my rage aren't as scorching or as precise as they used to be lol

In a word, this season was subpar. Not only did it lack that original witty, ineffable meaningfulness, that intrinsic and very human sense of wonder and protectiveness towards life and its profound sense the original show brimmed with, but even from the most basic literary point of view, it literally lacked a plot worthy of this name, a story, characters that felt complex and real instead of caricatures who tried and reenact themselves, and in general what should have been, quite simply, good writing.

More than Good Omens' long-awaited season 2, this felt more like a high-budget filler fanfiction created by someone who didn't know what they were doing with story and characters most of the time, but who sure as hell wanted to please the audience to disastrous lengths.

The very first thing that irked me beyond belief, and it literally started from minute one, was the immediate, more or less subtle, change in acting from both Michael and David. Michael stressed it way more, with, in my opinion, quite tragic results, thing that from the start immediately allowed me to guess where they were going with their (already established as extremely complex) relationship, entirely turning the vibe from sophisticated allegory of Divine Comedy kind of love (love for your enemy, love for your friend, love in all its form and in its entirety) to banal romantic comedy-level gay drama, downgrading what Crowley and Aziraphale shared (the subtle abysses of it!) into the most boring and obvious of soap operas, obviously forcing them to act out of character in order to compensate (was any flash-back meaningful to their character or the story? Was there a writing reason behind any of them beyond writing for the sake of filling screen-time?).

Some relationships deserve to be left alone, alone in their subtlety and ambiguousness or you'll inevitably ruin them. Not everyone must kiss on screen, no matter how much the audience screams and throws up for it. This little woke drama completely ruined and eclipsed everything else those two characters were for each other, turning them from cosmic and devastatingly loyal best friends to petty and dumb lovers that need two plot devices (the messy pointless and quite frankly offensive representation-wise lesbians from across the street they literally met five minutes prior) to tell them they actually have feeling for each other and should share them. After literal millennia of this relationship, relationship that has its own inner workings and reasons, we needed the plot-lesbians to subvert the order of things and spur Crowley into action, obviously obtaining disastrous and lame results? Are we witnessing the interaction of immortal beings or five-year-olds? The only way I can genuinely make sense of this dumbness is considering those two female "characters" (that feel anything but real people) no more than that, characters, golems, put there by Metatron via the power of the Book of Life (again, so many Chekhov's guns with no use whatsoever in this season) in order to separate Az and Crowley using the only thing that could succeed in doing it - an ill placed declaration of love.

But even this doesn't match the true être of what Good Omens originally was nor comes full circle with the ineffable mystery season 1 ended with. It genuinely feels like Gaiman changed the whole rhyme and reason of the story, vibes, meaning, register, just to meet the modern needs of a category that is sadly phagocytizes everything else in both life and fiction. And I find it a true pity - and a bore.

And even leaving aside this personal boredom of mine at a non-existent plot that consisted in 1) a big mystery that promised cosmic repercussions (season 1 ended with the after-nonapocalyptic world that was slightly changed just because two enemies had loved each other and life too much not to oppose god's plan - fact that was probably god's plan all along), mystery that was actually no mystery at all (two random, from the original story's perspective, previous minor characters in literally ten supernatural minutes fell in love and run away together) and that meant virtually nothing in the grand scheme of things, but serving as a plot device so that the other two minor new characters could intrude into the protagonists' relationship so they could finally have the excuse to jump literary genre and kiss & queer tragedy the story away 2) an endless series of symbols, facts, episodes and characters that constantly seemed to hint at something but that in reality resulted in nothing story-wise (also, the change of heart in God's personality, first the witty and almighty trickster for the greater good, now the divine bully??), even leaving all this aside, I'm mostly disappointed the quality of the writing plummeted so inesorabily one of my comfort show turned into the symbol of an artistic era I'm utterly distraught to have to witness - the era of crowd-pleasers and un-imagination.

As for this being a filler season, writing in such an unresolved way (basic and predictable plot, colourless characters, cliché romance, hours of happenings that don't mean a thing in the current story) is unacceptable and a failure, even if you are a famous writer. You cannot waste hours of the audience's time going nowhere shielded by the sole future promise of sense. Writing doesn't work that way, and I'm sincerely appalled to see people noticing it and deciding to excuse it with a "surely next season everything will look genius!". It doesn't work this way. The faults were too many, they can't possibly be all resolved next season. This product wasn't great, even if your faves kissed and your little fanfictions came true.

The sad thing is, Good Omens used to be a work of art, not the next consumeristic piece of fiction to satisfy woke needs.