#BOTH being by Odysseus' side in the end

[gingermintpepper]

Okay, let's finally talk about EPIC's Apollo

I feel very compelled to say, first of all, that I do not dislike Epic. In fact, I am very fond of Epic and have been following its production and status very eagerly! I attend all the launch streams, I watch all of Herrans' update videos; I am, at the end of the day, a fan and I want it to be known that my words are spoken out of love and passion as much as they are spoken from a place of critique.

So really, what my problem with Epic's Apollo?

In the briefest possible terms; the choice to have Apollo be defined by his musical aspect in God Games is thematically strange. And not in the 'oh well in the Odyssey, Apollo was important to Odysseus and his family so it's weird that that wasn't kept in Epic' strange, strange in the sense that Odysseus' character arc since My Goodbye has been getting more and more obviously Apollonian and so it is positively bizarre that when we get to meet Apollo, the god seems entirely disinterested in him and his affairs. So much so that he is not even defined by any station that would indicate that he has been watching over and protecting Odysseus and his family.

What do I mean by 'Odysseus has been following an Apollonian arc'? I'm so glad you asked!

Remember Them is the last song in which Odysseus explicitly uses his sword until Mutiny where he must use it to defend himself against Eurylochus' blade. He uses it to help enact the plan to conquer Polyphemus and, due to Polites dying in that battle, Polites who wished for Odysseus to put the blade down entirely and embrace a post-war life, Odysseus also retires his sword. This is an action that symbolically separates him from Athena - and the image of Odysseus as a traditional warrior set for him in Horse and Infant - as much as My Goodbye physically separates him from the goddess and her war-ways - from this point onwards, Odysseus will no longer be leaning on Athena's wisdom or methods to solve his problems. Likewise, he will no longer be able to rely on her protection.

Odysseus thusly solves most of his upcoming problems through diplomacy and avoidance. He approaches Aeolus - a strange and ambiguous god (both in gender and in motivation) and appeals to them for help. Circe too, he approaches not with wishes to conquer or for revenge, but for the safe returning of his men and an alternate way forward. In all of these scenarios, there is some Apollonian element which is subtly interweaved alongside the influence of other gods; it is with a bow and arrows that Polyphemus' sheep is slain (and thus it is this Apollonian element which is at the root of Odysseus' spat with Poseidon), it is a vision of Penelope that warns Odysseus that his men are about to open Aeolus' wind-bag, Circe's peace offering to Odysseus is to refer him to a prophet of Apollo who has since died.

In this way, Apollo is walking alongside Odysseus for all of his journey after Athena departs - even in the Underworld, he is guiding him. It is Tiresias' proclamation that is the last straw for Odysseus, it is by the power of a mouthpiece of Apollo that Odysseus decides to embrace his ruthlessness. It is with the bow and arrow that Odysseus subdues the siren who sought to trick him, likewise, Odysseus does not attempt to undermine or escape the fate of paying Scylla's passage price - he knows of the doom about to befall the six men and quite unlike the rest of the journey until this point, he does not fight against it. This all comes to a head on Thrinacia where it is a blade which sacrifices the sun god's cow and brings destruction upon the crew once more.

My point with all of this is that when I heard the teasers for God Games years ago, it made perfect sense to me that Apollo would be Round One - he is not Odysseus' adversary and has no reason to oppose Athena's wish to free him. From other teasers about what will happen in the climax of Epic, Apollo will still be walking alongside Odysseus - it is Apollo's bow that Penelope will give the suitors to string. Likewise, it is Apollo's bow that will prove Odysseus' legitimacy and identity. That bow will be the power by which Odysseus hunts his adversaries and cleans out his palace - it is Apollo who is the avatar of Odysseus' ruthlessness, not Athena.

So tell me, truly, what was the point of having Apollo raise a non-argument in God Games? Why have him appear unconcerned, aloof and slightly oblivious? Why have him appear in his capacity as the Lord of Music at all?? And if the intention was never to make Apollo an active player in Odysseus' life like he was in the Odyssey, why keep Odysseus as a primary archer?

The answer of course is that Apollo is inextricable from the fabric of the Odyssey - his influence and favour exudes from Odysseus just as much as Athena's. In Athena's ten year sulk, it would have been Apollo who kept Telemachus and Penelope safe. It would have been Apollo protecting Odysseus from Poseidon's gaze as he travelled the seas (according to the Odyssey anyway)

Forgive me for not being excited about something that I thought was being purposefully set up. I was extremely ecstatic about all of the little Apollonian details that litter the sagas because I know where this story ends up (loosely) but all God Games did was reveal that maybe those Apollonian details were not intentional at all, but merely the ghost of the Apollo who persistently haunts those he favours, even if he cannot explicitly come to their aide in an adaptation.

[madrone33]

Number 1 Rule of adapting the Odyssey into EPIC is: if it can be more dramatic, it will be more dramatic.

The Greeks decide to throw the infant Trojan prince from the walls because they're scared he'll try to avenge his family? No, Zeus comes down to personally give Odysseus a vision of being killed and says his family WILL die. Kill the baby that reminds you of your son right now, it's the gods will.

Odysseus goes to greet the inhabitants of an island and gets trapped in a cave for two days by the cyclops that's eating his men one by one? Nope, we got BOSS BATTLE 30v1 in the Ithacans' favour until BAM fourteen pancakes are made by Polyphemus' club and oh shit Polites is DEAD-

Athena is just vaugely absent for the whole journey until the end? We got emotionally charged platonic breakups instead, with yelling and insults and "well I'm breaking up with you FIRST!"

Smooth sailing to Ithaca? STOOOORM-

Odysseus' great-great-great-grandfather giving him a speed boost to help him on his way home? Get ready for trickster wind gods, mischievous winions, and a game that was rigged from the start.

Random-ass suspicious and greedy crew mates open the bag? It's Eurylochus, his second in command, his brother-in-law, the man he trusted, Eurylochus WHYYY

Parking in the wrong harbour and getting boulders thrown at the fleet by angry man-eating giants while Odysseus backs away veeery slowly? Nah Poseidon himself pulls up to dunk on them, and Odysseus has to make a last minute getaway using the power of STOOORM to avoid being curbstomped like his fleet.

Odysseus gets some stronger drugs from a god to make him immune to the other drugs of a goddess? Well these drugs actually give him magic powers which he uses to engage in a Pokémon/Yu-Gi-Oh style BOSS BATTLE!

Get some closure with dead loved ones and acquaintances, and be the first interviewer of the fallen heroes of past ages? Nope, we just got TRAUMA and a whole boatload of guilt!

A neat outline of what the rest of the journey will look like, a warning against an island of cows that will slow him down, and the way to appease Poseidon? This Tiresias just says "Y'know there used to be a world where you made it home, BUT I DON'T SEE IT NO MORE. IT'S GONE. IT'S OVER. Also, your palace is fucked."

Sailing past the sirens while getting to be the first mortal to hear their song and live? M U R D E R

Sailing past Scylla to avoid Charybdis and accidentally getting six men eaten because he thought he could totally take Scylla, even though Circe said he couldn't, and then he realised he, in fact, cannot take Scylla? ... Eurylochus, light up six torches.

Eurylochus waits till Odysseus is out hunting and then goes behind his back to mutinously rally the crew and feast on some sacred cattle? Betrayal on both sides, stabby stab, K.O., and then Odysseus helplessly watches them make the greatest mistake of their lives as they ignore his pleas.

Quick clean and easy lightning-strike to the ship, leaving Odysseus to cling to some driftwood and paddle away? Zeus himself appears to the mortals, monologues, makes Odysseus be the one to choose, and then smites the whole ship leaving Odysseus to nearly drown anyway.

Telemachus gets advice from a disguised Athena to yell at the suitors and then sail away to look for news of his missing father? Telemachus gets into a full on beatdown with the suitors and gets FIGHT CLUB TRAINING from Athena!

Athena goes "dad I want my favourite mortal back? Did you forget about him? I think you forgot about him" and Zeus instantly replies "nonsense. How could I have forgotten that funny little mortal? Of course you can have him back my sweet favoured child <3" and then Athena skips off to Ithaca? "Father please-" "LIGHTNING BOLT! ANOTHER LIGHTNING BOLT! LIGHTNING BOLT TO THE FACE HOW DARE YOU ASK ME OF SUCH A THING!"

Poseidon does a double take "wait they let him go?? Oh hell nah!" and then sends a giant fuck off storm for Odysseus to swim through until he reaches the Phaeacians? No, Poseidon's just been there on Ithaca's shores, waiting for eight years, now get in the water BITCH- except Odysseus is just like "oh yeah? Fucking FIGHT ME"

You thought the suitors in the Odyssey were bad? Jorge really just said "dial that shit up to ELEVEN"

[little-cereal-draws]

whatever you do, don't think of Odysseus and Polites growing up together

don't think of them going on "quests" through the palace garden, waving sticks at imaginary monsters and saving the day

don't think of them watching the older boys spar and trying to mimic it, not sure of the proper form and ending up in a giggly heap every time

don't think of them getting a bit older and finally competing against each other with an intent to win, racing and wrestling their way through the countryside

don't think of Polites always letting Odysseus win because he likes seeing Odysseus’ triumphant smile

don't think of Odysseus assuring Polites that he's ok while he cries over his wound from the boar, wiping away his tears

don't think of them getting taller and finally being able to reach all the branches of the trees

don't think of Polites reassuring Odysseus when he worries that girls won’t like him because his princely status outweighs the fact that he's awkward and gangly

don’t think of Odysseus being jealous of Polites’ growth spurt and Polites teasing him about it

don't think of them going on short trips to neighboring kingdoms as they fill out, making allies and attending feasts

don't think of Odysseus gushing about how pretty and perfect Penelope is while Polites smiles knowingly

don't think of Polites helping Odysseus gather the courage to ask for her hand

don’t think of the wedding festivities lasting a whole week and Polites drunkenly crying about how happy he is for them

don’t think of Odysseus letting Polites hold baby Telemachus, hovering with the anxiety of a new parent, and watching as his friend gently brushes the soft baby curls out of his son's eyes

don't think Polites assuring Odysseus that the war is estimated to last only a few months, he'll be back home before he knows it

don't think of circumstance slowly pulling them apart as Odysseus spends more time with the kings, going on raids and ambushes, and Polites tries to avoid the battlefield as much as he can

don't think of Odysseus freezing after Polites flinches when he claps him on the shoulder after a raid, hands still wet with blood

don't think of Odysseus growing restless and pacing in Polites' tent, mourning the years he's lost with his family and venting his frustrations with the war

don't think of the Trojans breaching the Greek wall and Odysseus scrambling to find the glint of glasses in the chaos

don't think of him finally finding Polites with a spear in one hand, the other hand pressed over a wound in his side, apologizing as he stabs at his attacker

don't think of Polites sobbing as Odysseus stabs the Trojan from behind, splattering both of them with blood when he pulls the body off of his sword

don't think of them fighting back-to-back, Odysseus aiming to kill, Polites just trying to get them to stay back, as the camp burns around them

don't think of Odysseus trying to get Polites out of joining the ambush on Troy but the other kings aren't having it

don't think of Odysseus watching Polites wipe the blood and tears off his glasses as he says he's fine to go, he appreciates Odysseus trying his best

don't think of the fire and screaming in Troy

don't think of Odysseus collapsing into Polites as soon as the fighting is over and sobbing too hard to explain why he's so upset

don't think of Odysseus closing himself off as they prepare to go home, jealous and angry over how his friend remains as optimistic as ever while he's haunted

don't think of the sea breeze and the promise of home starting to ease things back to normal

until it doesn't

[rin-solo]

Let's talk about "Monster" ... and one of Odysseus' criminally underrated traits: his lack of judgment.

I was re-listening to "Monster" the other day and it kind of just hit me... Overall, that song isn't my favorite (it's somewhere in B tier; the lyricism is great, and the part after "So if we must sail through dangerous oceans..." absolutely slaps, it's just not one that I go back to frequently.) But there are some things I genuinely adore about it because I adore the way it progresses Odysseus' character arc as clearly not a "corruption" and how this is conveyed through the way the song is set up and presented.

First of all, I simply have to yap about how Odysseus isn't justifying his foes' actions the way that I have seen some people falsely assume. He's describing what they did or do and essentially saying, "They aren't letting themselves be stopped by guilt from doing what they think they have to do, so why should I?"

Polyphemus doesn't overthink whether it's right or wrong to kill some people because they harmed him or his sheep.

Circe may deep down feel guilt but isn't letting that stop her from turning men into pigs to prevent any more harm from befalling her nymphs at their hands.

Poseidon isn't losing sleep over drowning a fleet because that is what gods do to retain their infamy and status.

Odysseus and the rest of his soldiers didn't use the Trojan horse tactic out of malice or bloodlust, but out of pragmatism. It was the most efficient way to win a war that would have only cost more lives on both sides if they hadn't ended it then and there.

You look at that and you may think, "That's all very fair, but that doesn't mean any of those actions are justified" ... and you'd be right. None of the actions above are actually right or justified.

But the thing about "Monster" that I love so much is that it's specifically NOT something like, "These people I've encountered are all evil and ruthless and they are right and justified in being that way; I'll be the same." It's actually, "These people I've encountered act with ruthlessness; it clearly aids them in achieving their goal, and they seem to have figured out how to not feel guilt over their actions. I want to reap those benefits too. So far, I've been acting with mercy, which seems to have disadvantaged me. If they can do it, I can and should do the same to level the playing field."

Odysseus isn't saying that their actions are right, wrong, or justified. He's simply exploring why these people act the way they do. And he does so entirely without judgment.

I'm not surprised about him not judging Circe; while she was still wrong since she went overboard and struck preemptively against people who were not guaranteed to ever cause harm, she was pretty much redeemed in the end and her point is the easiest out of these to understand.

But the rest? Polyphemus killed his best friend. Poseidon drowned his whole fleet. The Trojan horse? It never comes up anywhere else but since he mentions it here, I think it's safe to assume that Odysseus feels guilty for using a tactic such as this. And still... Odysseus talks about his foes' actions with understanding and an open mind. He acknowledges their points of view—all of them, even if none besides Circe ever acknowledged or understood his.

The only time we genuinely see Odysseus act out of resentment is when he tells Polyphemus his name... After that, he never shows anything of the sort ever again. If he ever held any resentment toward any of his foes, I feel like this is where he lets it go for good.

Hell, even Poseidon, whom he would have by far the most reasons to resent, Odysseus doesn't actually judge or resent. I wrote a whole mini-essay on why the Vengeance saga proves that Odysseus doesn't actually seek or want vengeance on Poseidon. One might argue that he sounded like he was avenging his crew in "Six Hundred Strike" but it's important to remember that he offered Poseidon forgiveness one song earlier. He didn't lead with vengeance or resentment, but he rekindled his anger when Poseidon rejected his mercy.

My point is that Odysseus doesn't judge or resent any of the people who attempt to stand between him and his home... which shows incredible character strength in and of itself. This occurs later, but he acts similarly toward Calypso in "Not Sorry for Loving You" as well.

This is such an underrated trait of his, especially considering it fits perfectly with EPIC's themes, which revolve around seeing every perspective and balancing between ruthlessness and mercy. Honestly, I don't think those themes would even work with a protagonist who isn't so open-minded.

Coming back to "Monster," as we've established, Odysseus doesn't pass judgment on his foes. Similarly, he isn't saying that his decision to embrace ruthlessness and "become" a Monster (read more to find out why I put that in quotation marks) or any of his future actions as this Monster are justified.

I genuinely despise it when people call his arc a "villain arc" or "corruption" because that's pretty much missing the entire point. He isn't actually becoming a monster, corrupting, or genuinely changing his personality—hence why I put those quotation marks earlier. He is deliberately choosing to embrace a certain ruthless way of acting, fully knowing that it is not actually right or justified. "So what if I'm the Monster?" is self-gaslighting. He knows it's not "so what?" But he's doing it anyway because he has seen this way of acting aiding his foes. He literally says, "I must become the Monster / And then we'll make it home." He is convinced that this is what he must become because he keeps being told this by everyone.

From the top, his values or person isn't actually being corrupted. He's not really internally changing. He's merely adapting a way of behaving because he thinks it's the only way he'll still get home, and only because of that. It's really f*cking sad actually. Especially because he is wrong; his not being ruthless is not actually the problem, as we find out later.

Genuinely, his monster act lasted exactly 3,5 songs; in the second half of "Mutiny" it's already all gone because he is so afraid for his crew and what they're about to do to themselves that he instinctively goes back to wanting to save them despite how they just led a mutiny, despite how they don't listen to him regarding the cows.

Odysseus' entire arc can be described as, "He tries out mercy, and it doesn't get him home. He tries out ruthlessness, and it doesn't get him home either. In order to get home, he needs to learn balance, in Hermes' words "Every trick in his domain"." And that is also, as I believe, the main theme of EPIC: Neither ruthlessness nor mercy by itself is the solution. Both have their place; one needs balance. Or: treat people as they ask to be treated.

Only by the time of the Vengeance saga does Odysseus seem to have finally figured this out, and that's where he genuinely starts succeeding.

So no, Odysseus is no longer "The Monster" by the time of the Vengeance saga, no matter how much the visuals in "Six Hundred Strike" try to convince us otherwise. But he isn't "Just a Man" either. Did anyone besides me notice how he stopped calling himself this or justifying his weak moments like that in "Monster" and how he doesn't go back to it even after dropping the monster act?

And here we have the perfect segway into an essay I haven't written yet that might answer the question, "If now he's not a man and not a monster, what is he then?"

Well, technically Odysseus told us himself that one time he acted out of resentment... "Neither man nor mythical." But that's an essay yet to be written... I'll get to it soon, and there we might answer what actually happened in "Six Hundred Strike" and why the line "If you dance with fate I know you'll enhance your state", that I see is mostly overlooked, matters so much more than we probably all think.

Until then, know that I am not actually the first one to address the "Neither man nor mythical" significance. Credit goes to @glisten-inthedark; coming across her post on this matter genuinely enhanced my understanding of what happened so much and I need all of you to read it because it's a truly brilliant conclusion. I'll write my own essay on this topic soon, I promise. But without that post, I would've probably not come to this realization for a long while.

Either way, we end this essay with words that I will never tire of repeating: Stop villainizing Odysseus, y'all. It's not cool, not only because it's undeserved but also because it pretty much shows that you have successfully missed the point and core theme of this musical.

... See you when we inspiration for another essay strikes me. In the meantime, have a brief introduction to what that essay will cover in meme form because I can.

[cynthiav06]

I have been living with this headcanon/brainrot about Athena (both from Epic the Musical and pjo) for a long while and a warning for the faint of heart, you know what read it anyway cause it haunts me , so everyone else has to be haunted by it too, cause I am petty like that.

Most people might be aware of the myth that Athena sprung from Zeus's head fully formed and in battle armor, but a few might not know the preceding myth, so here's a quick recap:

Zeus married the titaness Metis, who was the titaness of wise counsel, wisdom, and planning. She was also Athena's mother. Metis was his advisor, both an indispensable aid and threat to him, given her power and cunning. But it's no Greek mythology without a son overthrowing the father archetype haunting the narrative. There was a similar prophecy about Metis's second child being so powerful that he would overthrow Zeus. Mind you Metis was pregnant with Athena when the following events transpire:

Zeus being Zeus, paranoid and power hungry, the King of the Gods and the God of "Justice" manipulates Metis into playing a shape-shifting game and when Metis turned into a fly , he swallowed her whole. [I know Greek patriarchs have a thing for eating their children or spouses pregnant with said children. Runs in the family, apparently]

Mind you in Greek myths, swallowed children, or in this case, swallowed wife pregnant with said child stay alive for a good amount of time even inside someone else's organs. So Metis gives birth to Athena inside Zeus's head and raises her there. She teaches her warfare and strategy until Metis herself eventually dies, i.e., her essence fades. Knowing what she must do to not meet the same fate, Athena hammers on Zeus's skull from the inside to escape. Everyone knows the rest of the myth.

But imagine Athena's first lesson being that the man she calls her father is the one who killed her mother and almost killed Athena herself by swallowing Metis so she must do everything in her power to survive and avoid that fate by staying on his good side. To try and fit in this twisted family of immortals, half of who hate her existence and half who are indifferent to him. So she does exactly that.

Think of Athena asking to be a Virgin Goddess from learning of what comes of marriage with gods.

Now, the continuation of Athena's myth is that she goes to Atlantis to train with the sea nymphs. There she makes her first ever friend and someone she comes to dearly love, Pallas. Greek myths being allergic to happy endings, one day when Pallas and Athena are sparring as they do a bit more seriously this time; Zeus being a nosy bastard decides to spy in just when Pallas is about to land a finishing blow on Athena. Thinking she might kill his daughter, he kills Pallas by blasting her with his lightning. Athena, being heartbroken , Zeus gave her Aegis as an apology. The continuation of this is that Athena adopts the namesake Pallas Athena and even carves a statue in likeness of her friend called Palladium and then more.

But think of Athena heartbroken and bitter as the Goddess of Wisdom learns her second lesson, then she must abandon all personal relations and sentiment before her father ends it for her in one way or another. For Pallas was the first true relation in her life after her mother.

Keep in mind that Pallas is Poseidon's granddaughter through his firstborn son and heir Triton. This is the point that sparks eternal enmity between Athena and Poseidon, and all those who come after will suffer in the wake of this tragedy.

So Athena chooses to remain alone and without a friend to avoid such a situation. Imagine Athena being hurt, especially brutally, when Odysseus says: "Since you claim you are so much wiser, why's your life spent all alone? You're alone!"

Because that's exactly it. Athena is wise. She knows the consequence of endearing herself to someone again so she stays alone to avoid such a thing and yet coming from someone who is so close to being her first friend in a long time, hurt and enraged she leaves.

Now, when finally Athena comes to terms with her friendship with Odysseus she finds yet again that her father Zeus struck him and his crew in a similar fashion to Pallas , yet again ripping her only friend away from her .

He is not dead yet, and Athena isn't about to let that happen. This time, she fights against Zeus, risks her life and position of being the favorite, and her survival method all because she can't bear to see Odysseus die.

Think of the agonizing fate of Athena, repeatedly being traumatized by her father yet having to do his bidding and stay on his good side to survive and live not for herself for she lives in misery but for the people who suffered for died for their association with her. In her eyes, she must suffer tenfold for letting this happen thrice, for all eternity under the man who so wretchedly ruined her life.

[linnienin]

💄A S T E R O I D ⁕ S I R E N E ⁕(1009)💄 through the signs and degrees

Disclaimer: Take what resonates. I'm not a professional astrologer, i just am an avid researcher and i use my personal experience when writing my posts (Also, pls, don't copy my work, i spend lot of time on it, thanks)

Hello beautiful souls!

I'm back with another post on a very requested asteroid 💜

A lot of you asked me about Asteroid Sirene and how it manifests in a birth chart, and initially i answered singularly, but the requests started to get out of hand a bit for me, so i decided to create a whole post on this asteroid in different signs/aspecting different planets

I have planned other posts on this asteroid but for now I..

Hope you enjoy it!

W H A T ⁕ I S ⁕ A ⁕ S I R E N ?

⁕ In Greek mythology, sirens are humanlike beings with alluring voices

Initially descripted as half human half birds then as "sea-girls with the body of a maiden, but have scaly fishes' tails"

⁕ Etymology of the name meaning: "binder, entangler" i.e. one who binds or entangles through magic song.

This could be connected to the famous scene of Odysseus being bound to the mast of his ship, in order to resist the sirens' song.

M Y ⁕ I N T E R P R E T A T I O N :

I want to make clear that this is just my view and thoughts on this asteroid and if you know a trusted source on its meaning please link it down below, i'd be very grateful 🙏

To me Asteroid Sirene (1009) has a similar energy to Lilith but it isn't as raw and destructive, it's indeed more controlled and patient. Lilith is warm blooded while Siren is cold blooded. In our birth charts it can shows where we can become manipulative, turn to our dark side and take what we want with strategy, seduction and mischeviousness.

It can also describe our seductive aura, or how we attract and magnetize others with charm (this can be both conscious or subconscious, depending on how in tune you are with yourself, and also can depend on which sign or house you have this asteroid in)

So, are you interested in knowing how you emanate this irresistible appeal?

Keep reading 💄

S I R E N E ⁕ T H R O U G H ⁕ T H E ⁕ S I G N S :

⁕ Aries/aspecting Mars/1°,13°,25°: Bold, assertive and fearless. Doesn't matter if the rest of their chart has quiet,cutie poofie placements, when asteroid Sirene gets activated these natives becomes confident queens/kings and knows how to defend themselves. They don't lose time to get what they want, they get straight to the point and they know they didn't come to play but to win. Their seductive charm lays in how confidently they carry themselves, people see these natives as natural leaders and warriors. They carry a powerful and intense aura you just can't ignore, the types that dare to do or say things that should't be done or said (but coming from them they sounds so cool gosh). Their facial espressions are intense and animated, and draws people in.

⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕

⁕ Taurus/aspecting Venus/2°,14°,26°: The walking sleeping beauty (lmao is she sleepwalking?). Jokes aside, here you can see how unaware these people are of their allure, and this is part of their charm too. They have such a calming and indifferent aura that makes everyone comfortable around them, and people get obsessed by this feeling of peace these natives exude that they can't have enough of. Usually they are the silent type of "Sirene", it's kind of a dormant feature in them. They are very sensual in their mannerism, and if they get to the point of being aware of how powerful they are well, it's the end of the game. They can seduce EVERYONE with their touch. The Queen Mida (oh yeah and they want that gold) 👀

⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕

⁕ Gemini/aspecting Mercury/3°,15°,27°: Everyone's fling. Such a flirty aura. They're very smart and intellectual, and everyone find them extremely interesting, so they automatically are drawn in because they want to know more (and some people will desperately show off to get their attention, it's insane). They can get quite some hidden envy from others because of how witty they can be. These people have a way with words, when they speak everyone else shut down to listen to them. I find having Sirene asteroid in Gemini is very similar to being a Siren/Mermaid how it's described in mythology, they are very cunning when they want to, know how to play games with other's minds, they are very good at putting masks on and turn the cards in their favours. (Also, the ability of sirens to change their body features reminds me a lot of Loki in Northern Mythology which happens to be associated with Mercury) They're the true puppet master and they know it. They have light and quick movements. One minute they're near you, the next one they disappeared from your view, and this is extremely fascinating to people. It's like they can't catch them even if they try so hard.

⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕

⁕ Cancer/aspecting Moon/4°,16°,28°: I think of these natives as the spy who pretend to play the damsel in distress, portrayed in old hollywood movies. Don't be fooled by their cute acting. They're actually quite good manipulators. People love how inviting they feel, so warm and nurturing, they have a healing aura to them. These natives makes other people feel like they need to protect them from the dangers of others. I think Sirene in Cancer can be naive at first, especially when inexperienced, but when they get their heart broken oh boy. If Gemini was the master at mind manipulation, Cancer is the master at emotional manipulation. Overall these natives can be pretty unaware of their behaviour, sometimes getting overwhelmed by their emotions, but they can also be one of the most destructive people ever when activating the Sirene energy(both to others and themselves) if they aren't in control of it.

⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕

⁕ Leo/aspecting Sun/5°,17°,29°: OOOOH those hip swings, you can recognize them instantly from just their catwalk, it's simply hypnotizing. These people take pride in their sensuality, and they know how to use it very well. You can't escape their attention if they have claimed you to be their prey. Another go getter like Aries, but not so in your face, because even if their focus is on what they want, they'd rather give ALL the signals until what they want comes to them. Very much like: i believe, i attract. Their charm is in the way they carry themselves, so wild and raw, a power of nature, these natives hair can play a huge part when when presenting themselves to the world. One of their game tecniques is the push-pull. They enjoy a good chasing, and it's also a way for them to test you if you're worthy of their time (yeah, they have big egos, so beware of that)

⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕

⁕ Virgo/aspecting Mercury/6°,18°: The unattainable one. Like seriously, people get obsessed over conquering the heart of this person just because of their nitpickiness and because they are unavailable 24/7. Others can get obsessed over fantasizing on these natives and creating stereotipes when they didn't even shared a conversation in the first place like...this is some powerful stuff. They naturally look so put together, when they wear basics it looks hot on them. Their seduction way is showing how skilled and talented they are, they can literally do anything when they activate the Sirene energy, they get obsessed over a thing and practice until they have mastered it (coff coff, hello... low self esteem and need of appreciation from others 👀). However, once they get some potential suitors they lowkey refuse them like they don't need them anymore, lmao, this is what drives them craaaaazy, "you did all that stuff for mee and now you're walking away? " 👁👄👁 Lemme get some morreee.

⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕

⁕ Libra/aspecting Venus/7°,19°: The too good to be true one. They put sooo much thought and intention and effort to present themselves that everyone can't help but look at them all the time. On top of this magnificent presentation add also a flirtatious and extroverted personality that pleases literally everyone around them and BOOM, you can't excape the trap of falling for them. They have a gracious and light aura, great posture and poise, literally princesses/princes. They truly feel like royalty, they also have this natural rich people vibe if you know what i mean. The best at getting what they want in social settings, can have a very innocent vibe that people love. People pleasing is their tecnique to get what they're after. They are one of the most seductive signs in this asteroid, but they're kinda unaware of it. I mean, sure, they know they're pretty but they don't know how many hearts they rob. Even strangers gets captivated by their charming presence, most likely to have suitors telling them "it was love at first sight".

⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕

⁕ Scorpio/aspecting Pluto/8°,20°: Heavy aura, attracts anything without even trying. They know how to make an entrance (Leos too, but Scorpios are much more subtle, and still, they get so much attention). People automatically throws themselves at these natives, all it takes is a glance and a little smirk and they living magnets. These people holds the throphy for being the MOST seductive of all the Sirene asteroid's signs . There's just something so intoxicating about them, you can't not get obsessed with them. They are the ones that has to be particularly careful of their aura because they are in this energy all the time and they attract a lot of stalkers, obsessive people, so these are (and should be) the natives that should have firm and clear boundaries. They'll find themselves stepping down at times just to calm this powerful magnetizing field around them, especially if they don't like the spotlight, but if the rest of the chart has placements that like to be the center of attention, this is surely a bombshell placement (watch out for the immense envy/jealousy from others)

⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕

⁕ Sagittarius/aspecting Jupiter/9°,21°: Their spontaneity is contagious. They're hot and cool, and know how to talk to people. Give them a night and they will befriend literally everyone at the party, and will reap so many opportunities out of nowhere. A favourite of the masses. Sometimes they can be a little loud and can get envy/jealousy from others, probably because of a rigid opinion they have, but they surely know how to play with it, telling jokes and conquering again the trust of those that didn't like them. They have such a careless and free spirit that they literally live day by day, without worrying much about the future, and people find this extremey hot. This placement is one of the most underrated one in terms of seduction, honestly when researching for this asteroid i found many siren-like women in our history that had/have Sirene in this sign, and i think it makes sense thinking about it, because Sirens are in their natural habitat out in the wild, so there's a sense of familiarity between the native and the raw energy of Sirens.

⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕

⁕ Capricorn/aspecting Saturn/10°,22°: The strategic and cold diva. People cannot enter their inner world and their vulnerabilities and this drives them mad and obsessed over knowing what's behind the mask. Can embrace their seductive charm later in life (probably from their 30s on). I have noticed these natives can have strong facial features that are difficult to forget. Attracts wealthy suitors, or will use their seduction to attract opportunity to get into power positions. They have an authoritative and mature aura, slow but decisive movements, can be intimidating to others, big D energy. Demanding of others and themselves. Calculating every move they make, good at getting the favour of those in charge. Could find themselves attracted to older/more mature people or they could attract them a lot. Intense, can be similar to Scorpio Sirene, but people are much more wary when approaching them (this is why usually older people are attracted to these natives, because they give off the vibe of knowing what they want)

⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕

⁕ Aquarius/aspecting Uranus/11°,23°: The one that to seduce just have to be authentic and nonchalant. Weird in a cool way, they catch people's attentions without even knowing, but just doing their thing. Their independence and uniqueness are their strong seduction charms. They're pretty unaware of their appeal because they don't even care about seduction in the first place, they have other things that go onto their mind. Their authenticity and disinterest may not attract many suitors, but the ones that get attracted by them are genuine and shares similarities to them, so they might find even THE ONE with this non-method-method. If they're interested in seducing, they might use very peculiar and unconventional ways to do so.

⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕⁓⁕

⁕ Pisces/aspecting Neptune/12°,24°: The innocent mysterious person everyone is secretly obsessed with. People will find themselves having wild fantasies on this person and not even knowing why. The way they walk and talk is smooth and divine, like they have a light surrounding themselves. Their eyes always seem to wonder around, like they're never in the present moment, and this fascinates people a lot. If they make eye contact when talking to you or listening to you, they will hypotize you 100%, even if they're not really listening or are having other thoughts. There's just something so enchanting and special about their eyes, also, often these people will have unique eyes or stunning shapes/colours (ex. Liz Taylor has Sirene in Pisces and she is known for having one of the rarest world's eye colour, purple). The least aware of their Sirene charm of all the signs.

M o r e ⁕ o b s e r v a t i o n s:

Water sirene: innocent and wandering eyes

smooth and relaxing voices

Fire sirene: fierce and sexy eyes

clear and powerful voices

Air sirene: playful and flirty eyes

high pitched, unique and chameleon voices (good at changing their tone depending on the situation)

Earth sirene: sweet and calm eyes

deep and warm voices

And you've reached the end of this post! 💄

I hope you enjoyed it, i kinda wanted to include the houses too, but i think it'd been way too long to digest, so stay tuned for another post on Sirene in the houses

Edit: I published Sirene in the houses too! Click below to read the post (i also included Celebs examples)✨

I wish you all a wonderful day ahead! ✨

Yours,

Linnie

[xjulixred45x]

I'm suddenly inspired thanks to the new season of KNY and the announcement of the trilogy for the infinite castle arc, so this idea came to me while listening to, what a surprise, Epic The Musical.

BIG SPOILERS FOR THE MANGA FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT READ IT, ESPECIALLY FOR KOKUSHIBO'S STORY!!!

Kokushibo and Son reader

Did you see that Kokushibo when he was human had an entire family? wife and two children.

I like to imagine that he really loved them, it's just that his desire for power far exceeded his love for his family.

that + being turned into a demon caused his paternal instinct to drop considerably from "decent" to "sea turtle"...something like that.

Imagine that Kokushibo, watching over his family from afar, especially his eldest son, ends up...missing that feeling.

He won't admit it, obviously, but he's strong enough that he ends up watching and "taking care" of his children from a distance. but with a special emphasis on his eldest son. who, because he is his next heir, has to learn martial arts and weapons handling...

and he is GOOD with them..

I don't think the Son/reader is a Yorichi-level prodigy, but he's definitely cunning and intelligent enough to pass the average age and compensate for his lack of muscle mass (for being so young).

and Kokushibo feels INTERESTED in this.

He sees the opportunity to, in a way, "save" his son, "help" him get better.

although in reality it is a way of saying that he misses his son and that he does not want him to die as a human. but he would never admit it.

Then, when the child is old enough to go on expeditions on his own, Kokushibo gives him certain "tests", some that require strategy, brute force or intellect, but indifferently the child/reader manages to pass them.

The interesting thing is that at first, the son/reader doesn't really know why such strange creatures or obstacles appear out of nowhere 😅 but little by little he begins to suspect that a demon could have something to do with it...

What the boy did not expect was that that demon was his father!

The same father who abandoned him, his brother and mother...was he taking care of him?

Let's just say that when Kokushibo finally decides to appear before his son, he doesn't really give concrete answers, and it's not a good idea to try to force him. so son/reader simply settles for this strange new dynamic.

They're like Omniman and Mark but less extreme in a way. Or more like Athena and Odysseus. They act like Friends, but the GIANT difference on power/mortalilty and authority make them not actually be.

Kokushibo wants his son to improve as a swordsman as he grows up and proves to be a great fighter both with and without weapons, but at the same time he wouldn't act in a paternal way per se.

because, after all, Kokushibo is no longer the father of son/reader, he knows it. And deep down the reader also knows it, as much as he wanted to have a relationship with his father again, because he knows that if his father takes care of him it is because he loves him, but if he loves him, why does he push him away?

It's a dynamic in which the son/reader wants to have hope that his father is still out there somewhere, while what Kokushibo wants by being a demon is to leave what stopped him once being human, so he wants to drag his own son on the side of the demons.

Probably in the years in which Kokushibo meets his son and trains him (either in the Moon Breath or a variant) he also tries to teach him how to be the closest thing to a human demon, that is, to only look out for his interests. and HIS power, since after all, what good is everything he has achieved if it is not for him?

son/reader is a good boy, but thanks to these years of basically grooming he ends up being a ruthless and socially very inept warrior. being somewhat isolated from others.

However, when son/reader officially enters the demon hunting guild (by order to cover Michikatsu's place), he begins to be more exposed to people in general, people who do not feel particularly intimidated by him... who see him like a companion.

It would be especially interesting (especially for a yandere scenario) if the son/reader found a new father figure in the group of pillars (to which he ascended very young, to Kokushibo's satisfaction) who precisely tries to teach him that power and techniques are not everything, you do not have the guarantee that something precedes you, so you should focus more on living happily.

(It would add insult to injury if that father figure turned out to be Yorichi taking care of his nephew from his demonic father figure).

However, the more son/reader begins to doubt and falter in his ideology, the more pressure he receives from Kokushibo not to "disappoint" him, not after everything he has progressed, everything he has taught him, son/reader is a special warrior, he can't afford this.

especially not when Kokushibo is going to give him a very important test, in which it will be decided whether or not he is worthy of becoming a demon.

Let's say that the son/reader is sent on a mission, in which, together with a group of hunters, they must go after a high-ranking demon.

That's not the part Kokushibo is interested in.

He knows that his son/reader's companions are not going to survive this, they are very weak compared to his son, but if he uses them as decoys, he can easily kill the demon.

easy right? well, not for son/reader.

At first everything went well, as they had planned in case they ran into a high-ranking demon, attack from behind, keep their distance, be in the blind spot--

but in a moment, almost without realizing it, one of his companions was already dead, crushed to the ground...

and then another...

and other..

son/reader realized that he could handle this demon, but his companions couldn't, at this rate they would all die. and he DIDN'T WANT THAT.

So he did something he had never done before.

son/reader took his few remaining companions and RUN AWAY. as fast as he could. away from the devil. where the sun would rise shortly.

and oh god, Kokushibo was FURIOUS.

and practically right there they have their Epic My Goodbye moment.

Kokushibo is disappointed, his son not only ended up being reckless, but sentimental at best, SOFT. something that even his dead companions would be ashamed of. He's supposed to suppress any nagging feelings for the victory, and not only does he ignore this, he fails every stage of his final test.

So, Kokushibo leaves.

Maybe that's how he learns his place, maybe that's how he learns not to cross it, not to waste his time, NOT TO DISAPPOINT HIM.

but this time, son/reader has SOMETHING TO SAY.

...he's not surprised...

It is something very in character for his father, selfish, pridefull and VAINE, because after all, what does he know now about BEING HUMAN? What is it like to have blood on your hands and feel bad about it?

All the respect that the son/reader had for his father has disappeared, replaced by great bitterness. ENCOURAGES him to leave, he already did it once, he will no longer run after him, he will no longer cry for his attention, because he will no longer be plaguing his life to begin with.

He will get what he wants and he doesn't care in the slightest.

and that makes Kokushibo EVEN more angry, how could he think that such a disrespectful CHILD could become a good acquisition? what a waste of time.

but at least the son/reader knows why he did things, he knows why he is fighting now, WHAT HE WANTS, if his father were so powerful and he felt better now as a demon...then why is he there with him, in that moment?

.....

As the son/reader goes towards where the sun begins to rise, he can still hear his "father" speaking to him from behind.

-"...someday...you will understand what I tell you....someday...you may listen to me...someday...but not today, after all...you are just a man "-

a mortal man, who would die like the rest.

-"everything you worked for...will be lost...you have condemned...yourself...you have lost ...EVERYTHING"-

_"..... Goodbye father..."-

as he slowly walks towards the sunlight, with the rest of his group, but not before watching as the silhouette in the shadows blinks briefly before simply. disappear.

This feelt so OOC but I HAVE TO DO IT!!! I HAVE THIS IDEA FOR MONTHS NOW AND WITH TJE SUDDEN BRUST OF INSPIRATION FINNALY I DID IT!

It's kind of weird how the characters of the family of Kokushibo are barely used on fanfic, so i Made My two cents i Guess.

The songs i used of refference:

Hope You all enjoy!

[winxanity-ii]

⌜Godly Things | Chapter 09 Chapter 09 | fractured harmony⌟

╰ ⌞🇨‌🇭‌🇦‌🇵‌🇹‌🇪‌🇷‌ 🇮‌🇳‌🇩‌🇪‌🇽‌⌝

❘ prev. chapter ❘༻✦༺❘ next chapter ❘

The feast was in full swing, the grand hall once again filled with laughter and life. The air was warm and heady, charged with the scent of roasted meats and freshly baked bread, mingling with the sweet aroma of honeyed fruits.

It was a jolly atmosphere—joyful, vibrant, alive.

You found yourself among the musicians once again, your hands moving rhythmically over a small djembe drum, the deep, resonant beat echoing through your body.

With every strike of your hands on the drum's taut skin, you could feel your heart matching its tempo, drumming in sync with the pulse of the music. The rhythm was infectious; your whole body seemed to pulse along, your face flushed from the heat and energy of the room.

There was something about being a part of this collective sound, this melding of melody and percussion, that made the moment feel almost sacred, as if all the troubles of the world had temporarily vanished in the warmth of the hall.

You watched as the others played their instruments—lyres, flutes, and tambourines—all weaving together in a tapestry of sound that filled every corner of the room. Your fingers ached from the constant motion, but the smiles on the faces of those around you were more than enough to keep you going.

The music built up to a joyous crescendo, and as the final notes echoed, the song came to an end, leaving you breathless and grinning.

You took the opportunity to step away, your skin glistening with a light sheen of sweat. Making your way towards the long table at the side, you grabbed a goblet of water, the cool liquid soothing your parched throat.

You paused, leaning back against one of the stone pillars, your gaze wandering across the grand hall as you took a long sip.

The sight before you was beautiful—almost like something out of a dream. Penelope and Odysseus sat close together at the head table, the queen's eyes warm as they rested on her husband.

Every so often, Odysseus leaned over, his lips moving close to Penelope's ear, whispering something that made her smile. She swatted playfully at his chest, her laughter ringing out—a sound full of genuine happiness that made your own heart swell.

It was a simple, tender moment, yet it spoke of the love and resilience they shared, even after everything they had endured.

As you finished your drink, you heard the musicians striking up another tune. The lively notes filled the room, and you couldn't help but smile as you watched several servants—both from Ithaca and Bronte—begin to laugh and cheer, pairing up to dance.

There was something beautiful about the sight, the way the house colors blended together, Ithaca's blue and gold intermingling with Bronte's green and yellow. The servants moved with an easy grace, their feet tapping in time with the beat, skirts and tunics twirling in flashes of color.

The laughter, the cheer, the music—it all seemed to weave together, filling the room with a sense of unity.

Just as you were about to move and head back to the musicians, you spotted Telemachus making his way over. His eyes met yours, and an easy grin spread across his face, one that you couldn't help but mirror.

You smoothed down your clothes absentmindedly, flattening your hair as a flutter of excitement bubbled up inside you. Your heart beat just a little faster, a mix of anticipation and nervousness making you fidget.

Telemachus had always made it his mission to catch a dance with you if time permitted, and tonight seemed to be no different. You couldn't help the giddy feeling that welled up inside as he drew closer, the warmth of his smile making everything else fade into the background.

But just as he was about to reach you, a flash of green and yellow entered your field of vision.

Lady Andreia intercepted Telemachus, her bright grin unmistakable as she placed a hand on his arm, her fingers curling gently but confidently around his sleeve.

Without waiting for his response, she tugged him toward the center of the room, where the others were already dancing.

Telemachus hesitated for a brief moment, his eyes flickering back to meet yours, an apologetic smile tugging at his lips.

You tried to keep your expression neutral, but there was a twinge of something in your chest, an unfamiliar emotion that you couldn't quite place.

You watched as the princess pulled Telemachus into the line of dancers, their movements quickly falling in sync with the lively beat of the music. The prince spun her effortlessly, his laughter mingling with hers as they joined in the swirling dance.

Your gaze lingered on them for a moment longer, that odd twinge deepening in your chest as you took in the sight—the two of them moving together, their colors blending amidst the blues, golds, greens, and yellows that filled the hall.

It was a beautiful scene, and yet, it left you feeling strangely hollow.

With a soft sigh, you turned away, forcing a smile as you made your way back toward the musicians. The music was still playing, the notes joyous and bright, but for the first time tonight, it felt as if you were on the outside looking in.

☆

☆

All throughout the evening, Lady Andreia had remained close to Telemachus, her laughter echoing above the music, her presence unwavering. She danced with him, her smile radiant as they spun together, her fingers brushing his arm in fleeting touches that seemed both innocent and intentional.

They moved as if they had known each other forever, and it left little room for anyone else to join in.

You tried to stay focused, to keep the beat steady with the musicians, your hands drumming over the small djembe until your palms ached. The rhythm was your anchor, something that kept your thoughts from drifting too far into that uncomfortable twinge that seemed to grow each time you caught a glimpse of Telemachus and Andreia together.

He tried, a few times, to break away—to come find you and drag you into the dance—but each time, Andreia was there, her bright smile and laughter cutting in before he even reached you.

Eventually, you decided it was easier to stay put, to let the music carry you through the evening and to ignore Telemachus' fruitless attempts to catch your attention.

It was better this way, or at least, that was what you told yourself.

You poured all your energy into the music, the notes carrying you forward even when your heart wasn't quite in it; your fingers grew sore, your body ached, but you refused to let the fatigue—or the strange, unfamiliar feeling gnawing at you—show.

The music was your refuge, the only thing that made sense in the swirl of emotions you couldn't quite name.

By the time the last of the guests had gone, the hall was quiet, save for the clatter of dishes and the soft murmurs of the servants as they tidied up.

You worked alongside them, your movements automatic—stacking plates, wiping down tables, sweeping away the remains of the night's revelry.

As you worked, you couldn't help but steal glances toward the center of the room, where Telemachus and Andreia had danced. The memory of them spinning together, her hand resting on his shoulder, his smile bright and carefree, made your heart twist painfully.

There was a heaviness in your chest that you tried to ignore, shaking your head as if that would somehow rid you of the thoughts that kept creeping in.

Once the work was done, you walked with the others out of the now empty hall, your footsteps echoing softly against the stone floor.

You exchanged quiet goodbyes, your voice almost lost in the stillness of the night, and then you turned, splitting off from the group as you made your way towards your room.

The night was calm, the air cool against your skin as you stepped into the outside.

The sky above was clear, the moonlight showering down, bathing the courtyard in a silvery glow. The chirping of insects filled the quiet, a gentle hum that seemed to wrap around you, a reminder that even in the stillness, life continued.

The path to your room was familiar, and you moved slowly, your eyes tracing the patterns of moonlight on the ground, your thoughts drifting.

The ache in your chest hadn't lessened, but out here, beneath the open sky, it felt a little easier to bear.

It was quiet. Peaceful. A stark contrast to the noise and warmth of the hall, to the laughter and music that had filled the air not long ago.

And yet, even in the quiet, your mind thought about Telemachus, about the way his eyes had searched for yours, the way Lady Andreia had pulled him away.

You shook your head again, as if to clear it, and quickened your pace.

It was late, and you were tired. Tomorrow would be another day, and perhaps, with the morning light, things would feel different.

So instead of focusing on such churning thoughts, you focus on the sound of your footsteps, the feel of the ground beneath your sandals, the glow of the moonlight guiding you forward.

The night was quiet, and for now, that was enough.

You were nearly halfway to your room when you heard your name called, the sound breaking through the stillness of the night. The voice was familiar—soft, yet insistent—and it made you stop in your tracks, your heart giving a small, unexpected leap.

Turning around, your eyes widened slightly as you saw Telemachus jogging towards you, his figure illuminated by the silvery glow of the moon. He was a sight, his hair a little tousled, cheeks flushed from the exertion, and something about the way he moved—hurried, purposeful—sent a warmth spreading through your chest.

"____," he called again, his breath a little heavy by the time he reached you, but his eyes were bright, a soft smile spreading across his face. He looked down at you, his gaze gentle, and for a moment, the weight that had settled in your chest seemed to lift, just a little.

"May I escort you the rest of the way?" he asked, his voice carrying a note of warmth, his eyes searching yours as if hoping for an invitation.

Before you could respond, his hand reached out, taking the djembe drum that hung by your side, lifting it from your shoulder with a careful touch.

You blinked, and then smiled, nodding. "Of course," you said, your voice softer than you intended, but it seemed enough for him. Telemachus returned your smile, his own soft and genuine, and with that, the two of you began to walk.

The silence that fell between you was comfortable, the kind that needed no words; you could feel the warmth of the prince beside you, his arm brushing against yours every so often as you walked. The djembe hung at his side, and his fingers tapped against it absently, keeping a gentle rhythm as you moved.

You found yourself glancing at him from the corner of your eye, the moonlight highlighting the curve of his jaw, the softness of his expression, and something inside you softened too.

He looked ahead, his gaze focused on the path, his features calm and relaxed, and there was something about the way he walked—steady, unhurried—that made you feel at ease.

It was as if, for just this moment, all the confusion and the uncertainty from earlier had faded away, leaving behind only this—just the two of you, walking side by side beneath the moonlight.

A small smile tugged at your lips, and you looked ahead, letting the quiet wrap around you like a comforting blanket.

The night seemed to hold its breath; the only sounds were the soft crunch of your footsteps against the path and the distant chirping of crickets. You could hear the rustle of the olive branches above, swaying gently in the breeze, casting dancing shadows on the ground as the moonlight filtered through the leaves.

The air was cool, crisp against your skin, yet the warmth of Telemachus beside you seemed to make the chill almost pleasant, balancing it out in a way that made you feel content.

Telemachus cleared his throat softly, the sound breaking through the quiet but not disturbing it—more like adding another layer to the stillness of the night. He looked down at you, his eyes soft, the corners of his lips turning upwards. "Did you enjoy the feast?" he asked, his voice low, almost hesitant, as though he wasn't quite sure whether he wanted to break the peaceful silence.

You turned your head towards him, meeting his gaze, and a bright smile spread across your face. "I did, my prince," you replied, your voice carrying a hint of excitement as you recalled the vibrant festivities. "It was wonderful—the music, the dancing, the laughter. It felt like, for just a moment, everything was right again. Everyone seemed... happy."

Telemachus nodded, his expression softening, the lines of tension easing from his face. "It was," he agreed, a small smile tugging at his lips. "Bronte was surprisingly pleasant. The people were warmer than I expected. It was nice, having them here."

At the mention of the neighboring kingdom, you felt your smile falter just a little, your heart giving an odd, uncomfortable twist.

You nodded, forcing the smile to stay on your lips, pressing on despite the unease that flickered within you. "Yes, it was," you agreed, your voice quieter now, a touch of something unspoken lacing your words.

You looked ahead, focusing on the path, on the way the stones seemed to shimmer in the moonlight, trying to push away the feeling that tugged at your chest.

You could feel Telemachus glancing at you, his gaze lingering, as though he could sense the shift in your mood, but he said nothing, choosing instead to remain in the comfortable silence, letting the moment stretch between you.

And for that, you were grateful. Grateful for his presence, for the warmth that seemed to radiate from him, for the way he walked beside you without question or pressure, just there, solid and steady.

After a few more moments, Telemachus gave a soft chuckle, his voice lightening the mood. "I think I made a fool of myself on the dance floor," he admitted, shaking his head, a sheepish grin forming on his face. "I haven't danced like that in a long time."

You couldn't help but laugh, the sound escaping you before you could stop it. You glanced up at him, your eyes twinkling with amusement. "You weren't that bad," you teased gently, your smile widening. "In fact, I'd say you were quite impressive—though maybe not as graceful as Lady Andreia."

Telemachus groaned playfully, rolling his eyes. "Ah, yes," he said, his tone holding a hint of self-deprecation. "She certainly made me look better than I am." He paused, glancing at you with a sly smile. "Though, I do think I would've rather danced with you instead."

Your heart skipped a beat, warmth spreading across your cheeks. You looked away, hiding the smile that tugged at your lips, feeling a flutter of something light and hopeful bloom in your chest. "Perhaps next time, my prince," you murmured, your voice barely audible over the rustling leaves.

Telemachus hummed in agreement, and you felt his arm brush against yours, a gentle touch that sent a shiver down your spine.

The two of you continued walking, the soft crunch of your footsteps filling the silence as the path narrowed; the ground gradually shifted beneath you, the soft crunch of gravel transitioning into the smooth tiles of the palace floor as you entered a different part of the building.

Telemachus walked you all the way to your door, neither of you saying much—the quiet had settled between you like a comforting blanket, one neither of you wished to disturb.

When you reached your door, you paused, turning to face him, your eyes meeting his. The moonlight bathed his features in a gentle glow, softening the lines of his face, making him look almost ethereal.

For a long moment, neither of you spoke, the air between you filled with something unspoken, something tender and fragile.

Telemachus gave you a soft smile, his gaze never leaving yours. He reached out, his fingers brushing against your arm in a gentle, almost hesitant touch, as if testing the waters. "Goodnight, ____" he said softly, his voice barely above a whisper, filled with warmth.

You swallowed, your heart pounding, and offered him a small, genuine smile in return. "Goodnight, my prince." Your voice was equally soft, the words carrying more than just a farewell—something unspoken that hung between you, lingering in the air.

For a moment, it felt as though he might lean closer, as if the two of you were teetering on the edge of something you couldn't quite name. But then he pulled back, his smile still in place, and nodded once before turning to walk away, his footsteps fading into the night.

You watched him go, your heart still pounding, warmth blooming in your chest. When he finally disappeared from view, you let out a breath you hadn't realized you were holding, leaning back against your door. Your eyes fluttered closed, and you rested your head against the wood, a small smile tugging at your lips.

Your heart was racing, your cheeks warm, and for a moment, you let yourself bask in the feeling—the hope, the warmth, the quiet thrill that seemed to spread through you.

It was like a secret, something just for you to hold onto, a memory to carry with you.

Finally, with a sigh, you pushed yourself away from the door, opening it quietly and stepping inside.

The room was dim, the only light coming from the soft glow of the moon filtering through the small window. You moved slowly, setting your drum down in the corner, your fingers lingering on the wood for a moment.

You shrugged off your shoes, your fingers deftly undoing the laces before placing them neatly to the side. Your eyes scanned the dim room, and you quietly moved to take off the rest of your attire, folding each piece carefully and setting it on a chair.

You splashed your face with water from the basin, the coolness making you shiver slightly, a refreshing contrast to the warmth of your flushed cheeks.

Finally, you slipped into your nightclothes, letting out a content sigh as you settled into your bed; you were knocked out the moment your head hit the pillow.

The dream was unlike anything you had ever experienced—a strange yet beautiful vision that seemed to blur the lines between fantasy and reality.

You were sitting in a seemingly never-ending field of flowers, the sun shining down warmly, bathing everything in a golden glow. The flowers danced around you, vibrant colors stretching as far as your eyes could see.

You wore a flowing white dress, its fabric catching the breeze, and your feet were bare, the earth beneath you soft and comforting.

You were humming softly to yourself, the tune light and carefree, your hands busy weaving a flower crown to match the one already resting atop your head. There was a sense of tranquility, of freedom, that seemed to fill you entirely, making your heart swell with joy.

Suddenly, a shadow fell across you, interrupting the sunlight, and you looked up, a smile already forming on your lips. Though the figure was shrouded in shadow, somehow, you knew them—an innate familiarity that made you feel safe, comforted.

The man bent down, his presence filling the space around you with warmth. His hand reached out to cup the bottom of your face gently, and his touch was like sunlight itself—soft, warm, and deeply comforting. You found yourself closing your eyes, leaning into it, savoring the tenderness. His thumb brushed against your cheek, a touch so soft it almost tickled, and you could feel your heart fluttering in your chest.

The man leaned closer, his warmth enveloping you as his lips brushed against your ear; you shivered as he whispered your name—a low, soft voice that sent a thrill down your spine.

" ____, my love."

The words were filled with so much warmth, so much affection that it made your heart swell almost painfully. His presence was comforting, his closeness like a soothing balm to your soul.

You could feel the heat of his breath, the way his hand cradled your face like you were something precious, irreplaceable. The warmth of his touch seeped into your very being, making you wish for the moment to stretch on forever.

You leaned into him further, your heart pounding with something that felt so pure, so unguarded, and as his fingers brushed against your jawline, you could almost feel the promise in that simple touch—a promise of love, of devotion, of something far beyond what words could convey.

And just as you began to turn your face towards his, your eyes still closed, your lips parting slightly—

When your eyes opened, the dream was gone, replaced by the soft light of dawn breaking past the horizon, filling your room with its gentle glow.

You blinked, disoriented for a moment, the warmth of the dream still lingering in your chest, the sensation of his touch still vivid.

With a sigh, you rubbed your face, trying to shake off the remnants of the dream as you slowly pushed yourself up, the chill of the morning air brushing against your skin.

You could still feel the echoes of that strange, beautiful vision as you stood, stretching, and began to prepare yourself for the day ahead.

☆

☆

Throughout the morning, you couldn't help but notice that Lady Andreia was still on Ithaca.

You had seen her once or twice after she had gathered her brother's body, and you had assumed she would leave promptly after, but she and her entourage had continued to stay. She was particularly present around the royal family, her presence lingering like a shadow.

Most noticeably, she often stayed close to Queen Penelope.

At first, you assumed it was simply a formality—a gesture of goodwill to stay and converse with the queen after everything that had happened. But as the hours passed, you saw Andreia with Penelope often, their heads bowed together, sharing whispers and laughter.

There was an ease between them that seemed to grow, as though they were beginning to find comfort in each other's company.

It was nearing lunchtime when you were bringing a tray of fruit and freshly baked bread to Penelope. You made your way through the corridors, the tray balanced carefully in your hands.

The closer you got to the queen's chambers, the more you could hear the soft murmur of voices.

When you entered, you found Penelope and Andreia seated by the window, sunlight streaming in, casting a warm glow over them. They were chatting animatedly, their smiles bright, their conversation filled with an ease that made you pause.

Penelope looked up as you entered, her expression softening. "Oh, ____, I'm sorry," she said, a gentle apology in her voice. "I forgot to tell you that Lady Andreia would be joining me for lunch today."

You nodded, offering her a small smile. "No trouble at all, my queen. I can bring more," you said politely, already making a mental note to fetch another tray.

But Lady Andreia shook her head, her red hair catching the sunlight as she smiled warmly at you. "Please, there's no need. I feel like I'm intruding as it is," she said, her tone light, though there was a sincerity beneath her words.

Penelope waved her off, her smile growing. "Nonsense. You are a guest here, and it is our duty to make you feel welcome."

You busied yourself setting down the tray, your hands moving with practiced ease as you arranged the dishes, making sure everything was in place. You tried to keep your mind focused on your task, but you couldn't help overhearing their conversation.

"I must say," Andreia spoke, her voice carrying a note of wistfulness, "Ithaca is truly beautiful. The landscapes, the people—there is a warmth here that I have never known elsewhere."

Penelope smiled at her, tilting her head slightly. "It is home," she replied, her voice filled with a quiet pride.

Andreia sighed softly, her gaze drifting out the window. "Bronte is beautiful too, in its own way," she continued, her voice thoughtful. "But it's different. The mountains are tall and covered in mist, and the forests are dense, almost impenetrable. Our people are strong, but they lack the openness I see here. Everything in Bronte is..." She paused, searching for the right word, "harsher, I suppose. Our winters are long, and the sea is often angry, but there is beauty in its wildness."

You couldn't help but glance at her as she spoke, her eyes far away, lost in her memories. There was a sadness there—a longing for something. It made you pause, your hands hovering for a moment as you listened.

Penelope reached over, placing a gentle hand on Lady Andreia's. "Every place has its own beauty," she said softly. "And I am glad that, at least for now, you can find some warmth here with us."

Andreia looked at Penelope, her eyes softening as she smiled. "Thank you," she said quietly, her voice filled with sincerity.

Then, after a small pause, she added, her tone shifting slightly, almost wistful, "The people here respect you deeply, my queen. It must be a great comfort to have such loyalty from those around you. And King Odysseus... his presence must also be a great source of strength for you. His reputation alone speaks volumes."

Penelope returned her smile, her expression warm but also slightly curious. "It is a blessing," she agreed, her eyes meeting Andreia's with genuine fondness. "One that I do not take for granted. Odysseus and I have been through much together, and his return has brought a balance I did not realize I needed."

You watched the exchange, Andreia's eyes lingering on Penelope with something like longing—perhaps admiration, perhaps something else, a yearning you couldn't quite understand.

She smiled again, though there was a weight to her words. "The tales of his cunning and strength—seeing him here, in person, makes one understand how such legends are born." The way her words hung in the air, filled with both warmth and something more complex, made you uneasy.

You finished your task, stepping back and offering a polite bow before making yourself scarce.

You couldn't quite place the feeling that lingered in your chest as you walked away—a mixture of curiosity and something else, something you couldn't quite name.

A/N: ugggghh, the way i wanna jump right into meeting hermes, lololol but alas plot gosta be made, but the brightside is at least the buildup will be magnificent; double ugggghhhhh cuz tell me why i'm literally writing this so-called group paper for one of my classes by myself?? we in college, these people too grown not to know how to write a fucking paragraph, but lemme stop before i start ranting 😩😭 so i do apologize if update are really really reaaallllyyy weird because i'm working + schooling 💔

[theglassesgirl]

Calypso vs Antinous: A Tale of Two Villains

I know this is such a weird topic for me to come back for after not blogging for months, especially I’ve never spoken on this fandom here, as opposed to TikTok. But precisely BECAUSE tiktok is so limiting, even if you make various videos on a topic, someone won’t have all the context and the comment system of that app is pure ass so here I am

Calypso and Antinous are two (out of three!) of the MAJOR villains in the Wisdom Saga, however, both these villains have produced polarizing discourse that has fascinated yet confounded me. On Calypo’s end, she is a villain who many are made upset by when she is interpreted as the villain she is (in varying degrees). On Antinous’s end, he is a villain who many are made upset by when he is interpreted as anything BUT the villain he is (in various extremes). What on earth happened here?

I’ll try to dissect what has transpired as i have come to understand both situations.

PLEASE try to read through the end, but if you like, you are also more than welcome to just focus on one section if you don’t care for both discourses or how i think one affects the other. I totally get it. KEEP IN MIND, that i might speak about something you haven’t PERSONALLY seen, but as i often say in fandom, just because YOU didn’t see it, doesn’t mean it didn’t HAPPEN. It adds context to why/how certain fans are reacting as they are. You could be in one camp, and never have seen what the other camp has, so at any point where youre reading and saying to yourself “is this a thing that happened?” Consider that it did indeed, happen, and you are welcome to expand your knowledge on the subject.

ANY comments that go “you have no idea what your talking about/this isn’t true/i’ve never seen this/when did this happen(sarcastically)” will not be answered and you will be blocked, because it is clear you are not actually open to discussion. You’ve made up your mind about these characters and topics, and my time, at least, is valuable.

GENUINE questions like “I didn’t know this/when did this happen (genuine)/can you explain this point more” are more than welcome. I will absolutely entertain character interpretation as well, so long as we’re not trying to “convince” one another, as that isn’t the point of this post. These are two villains who i find fascinating and am wondering why are being treated so differently in discourse spaces.

For Calypso:

I truly and HONESTLY believe that because Calypso is a unique (and lovable! Mind you!) villain, it had led to many of her newer fans to feel uncomfortable with her role in the story. I have seen numerous sides of her discourse and have come with a few iron-clad rules: it is ONLY acceptable to call someone out if they are harassing Wangui, calypo’s VA (which has NOT happened as i am writing this out) OR if an anti-calypso comes into SOMEONE ELSE’s post saying anything like “if you like calypso then you condone her actions” because as what we sane people know, that is just a silly fallacy, OR if they start shit in a cosplayers/fanfic writer/fanartists comment section. ASIDE from these instances, i will be speaking on what none sense has transpired about how Calypso is portrayed in the Musical within her first song, and her future song, because BOTH have been used for utter bias.

A few things to debunk:

FIRST Calypso is NOT cursed to fall in love with anyone who comes across her island. That is a Percy Jackson ONLY addition that has no bearings on her actions in the musical or the original poem.

ALSO though Calypso CANONICALLY RAPES Odysseus for seven years in the original poem, the CHILDREN from that abuse only really exist in secondary sources/works. They NOT in the original poem.

Having said that:

The Ambiguity of Calypso’s actions in both of her songs means that everyone is right when they speculate on what she has done. Odysseus was trapped on her island against HIS will for seven years. He is canonically seen refusing her advances, trying to kill himself, and begging her to let him go and leave him alone. These are UNDISPUTED facts. As such, regardless of how YOU personally choose to interpret Calypso actions, she will always have a CANONICAL victim in the musical. I feel people are forgetting Odysseus when they speak on Calypso and that’s the whole point of her existence in the poem and the musical.

This leads directly into WHY there has been arguments about Calypso’s character. In the POEM, she very much sexually assaults Odysseus for seven long years. He is seen crying nightly and begging to be free. In the MUSICAL, Jorge has decided to leave the situation ambiguous - which, i have seen, does not sit well with current fandom culture. NEW fans of Calypso seem to be very adamant about NOT interpreting Calypso as a rapist, in levels that range for they’re just not comfy with it so decided not to head canon her as such, to other very concerningly speaking about rape survivors in such a way to justify liking a villain when you dont HAVE to justify liking a villain at any point at all ever.

Let’s break it down.

Those who just don’t like the idea of Calypso being a rapist in the MUSICAL are valid. It’s very easy to block and avoid those who have chosen to explore this aspect of her in the musical because they can and are allowed to. I am very pro-finding a space in fandom where you can talk about Calypso without HAVING to mention she might have raped someone. She’s still a villain for having kept Odysseus captive for seven years, but it’s not important. You are more than allowed to love villains, and without the rape aspect, Calypso’s villainy boils down to her physiological and emotionally torturing Odysseus while physically kidnapping him. That’s still ALOT of bad stuff to unpack, if you so want to. You could also not want to! It doesn’t hurt anyone, and anyone who says it does is not being intellectually honest.

The PROBLEM that I’m seeing, is that many of her newer fans…DONT want Calypso to be seen as a villain. At all. Which…is not how fandom works, I’m sorry to say.

While some EPIC fans have interpreted Calypso of being manipulative / selfish even in their most sympathetic analysis of the story (and the current song), others are treating these interpretation as wholly incorrect and somehow a form of harassment. The main caveat to this reaction appears to be, as TikTok puts it, “That Calypso DOESN’T SA Odysseus on the musical”

As we have pointed out, Calypso canonically rapes Odysseus in the poem, while it’s ambiguous in the musical. As we have ALSO pointed out, the ambiguity of the musical allow ALL INTERPRETATIONS to be correct. Something about the RAPE aspect of Calypso’s characterization in this musical, however, is the primary reason this discourse has happened.

Now, as i have said earlier. You are in your RIGHT to not head canon Calypso has a rapist in the musical. In the same vein others also have a RIGHT to head canon Calypso AS a rapist in the musical. But from what I’ve seen, it’s when others interpret Calypso as a rapist that newer Calypso fans leave comments about they’re not “interpreting the story correctly” and not “Judging calypso based on Jorge’s vision” and at first i found it funny…now it’s a bit concerning.

There are two instances that come to mind. One tiktoker made a video where she was in tears saying that it made HER SAD that people were “judging Calypso wholly based on outside sources material” which is disingenuous. As i have said before, even without the RAPE aspect of Calypso, which i will go further into what her newer fans consider “rape”, she is still an antagonist within the musical - she is a villain who keeps Odysseus against his will. To claim that they are calling her a villain for that reason alone is a blatant and useless addition to the discourse. I did not care for it at all. It would have been MUCH MORE constructive for this tiktoker to say that even though Calypso is a villain, the sexual assault is up to individual interpretation, and as all interpretations are valid, it’s better to find people who agree with your head canons rather than start fights with people who don’t share yours. This tiktoker very poorly worded the discourse as a one-sided thing where one side is wrong, and that is simply not true.

ANOTHER tiktoker, who wisely turned off comments because such discussions are impossible on the app, worryingly claimed that a line in Not Sorry for Loving You was absolute PROOF that Calypso did not “rape” Odysseus so it was wrong to interpret her as such, because, and this is a loose quotation “i don’t think Jorge would make Odysseus say something like that HAD Calypso done that to him” which unfortunately leaves fandom discourse into REAL WORLD victim discourse. Holy shit. The line she is referring to is when Odysseus calms Calypso down when she is in the middle of explaining her actions by saying “Calypso i love you, but not the way you want me to” to this tiktoker, it seems illogical for a rape victim to every say these kinds of things to their rapist…which is….NOT it. At all. Fiction, as beautiful as it is, is meant for you to QUESTION “huh…how would this impossible fictional scenario work? What makes this compelling?” It is NOT meant for you to attribute your REAL WORLD assumptions onto a FICTIONAL SCENARIO in order to justify you liking a villain character when you dont HAVE to justify it. You can like Calypso! It’s only weird when you make real-world comparisons like this because a rape victim can and HAS said as much and even more to their rapists in known history. *bonks you* dont do what this person did! Fiction allows you to explore situation that would be traumatizing outside of it in as safe and consensual way! You CANNOT and should NOT ascribe your personal biases on sensitive topics for FICTIONAL characters. That’s not how this works. “real victim wouldn’t x, so fictional wouldn’t y” is a ludicrous statement! You can’t back it up with facts! “Fictional victim does x, so i wonder if there ever would be a situation where a real victim would do y, and would like educate myself on the topic” IS what fiction was made for! OPENing your mind, not closing it for stupid reasons.

But it got me thinking. BECAUSE these fans anchor their arguments on the rape of Odysseus, even when they themselves DONT consider it, what exactly do they consider rape, and why is that ONE act Calypso may or may not do the ONLY reason to call her a villain when she is one, regardless.

Well, I’ve seen a lot of back and forth. Some anti-calypso’s are okay with the idea that Calypso is more of a “kissy-face” monster, a silly villain who, having no concept of what actual love is and what your supposed to do with someone you love, thinks hugging and kissing is the only thing on the table. It still makes this version of Calypso something of a sex pest and is still in line with sexual assault as we see Odysseus is miserable. The gravity of the situation is based entirely on funny fanfics to Odysseus canonically trying to kill himself because of Calypso’s affection. This interpretation (shockingly enough) is also hated by some new Calypso fans.

Because from what i have gathered. “SA” as used in TikTok, had been boiled down to a literal forced insertion of Odysseus’s dick in Calypso’s vagina. Not the literal words “sexual assault” which is an umbrella term for multiple things. But in this discourse “SA” has JUST been used for the ACT of rape itself. That is what new Calypso fans think is criminal. That is what they entirely base her villainy on. Because we will NEVER get confirmation on whether this happened, it’s impossible to engage with some of the newer fans, who dislike attributing Calypso with the villain title because of this one thing and this one thing alone. Any other line, from Calypso saying “and I’m sorry if i pushed you, or if i came on too strong” in her next song, or even her saying “in bed we will climb” is, for some reason, not grounds for others to be allowed to interpret her as, at the very least, assaulting Odysseus physically and sexually in a way without having to have actually raped him. It boggles my mind. Truly. But every argument i have seen has boiled down to the newer fans saying “welllllll, we dont know the context, and Odysseus said —“ when i have already explained that none of that matters. All interpretations are valid. You CANNOT say with certainty that she did or didn’t rape Odysseus. That’s the POINT. You can’t PROVE either, stop TRYING to, it’s YOUR choice and your interpretation can be backed by lyrics/official animatics, but it is hardly an absolute.

It has become a GROWING problem that in videos where Calypso is portrayed negatively, there are at least a dozen newer calypso fans who have to bring up how she is sympathetic, and therefore, not a villain. Which is not true. She is the MOST compelling villain in the epic musical, thus far.

These “fans” say that she absolutely didn’t rape Odysseus which is theory, not fact. And not a theory that can become fact. In the same way that saying she absolutely did rape is can not become fact. They appear to believe everything outside of this hypothetical act, nothing else she does is deserving of her title as a villain, and start arguments in non discourse posts about all the ways she’s sympathetic when it goes hand in hand with what makes her a compelling villain antagonist.

There’s also a newer cope saying that it’s all Zeus’s fault anyway, which has NO bearings on the conversation as, again, despite Zeus being a dick and allowing Odysseus live while not necessarily enabling him returning to Ithaca, it’s still up to Calypso on how she acts towards HER captive. And she straight up chooses violence lmao. Athena asks for “Devine intervention” to an impossible situation, regardless of if it was Zeus’s actions that led to it, it’s also up to him to “untie apprehensions” because Calypso, being a goddess, has complete control over whether Odysseus can leave and SHE won’t. She has to be ORDERD to. By a HIGHER power. Zeus.

Such argumentations as “well if YOU were in Calypso’s situation, wouldn’t you also do the same” are useless fallacies to get into, because you are NOT a goddess who owns an island and is in possession of a man who does not love you. Even if you were, guess what, it still makes you the antagonist. A villain. A knowing one or not.

In fact, since I LIKE interpretations that Calypso isn’t psychologically torturing Odysseus ON PURPOSE, i go as far as to say that her being a genuine goddess who wants love is in fact…..so much more painful, narratively. Because that means she is INCAPABLE of ever being a good person. Her loneliness and fear of being unloved makes her utterly blind to Odysseus’s misery. She HEARS him saying constantly that he misses his family, that all he hears are screams, and that SHE doesn’t know him, but she in turn CANNOT get passed this because she is, at her core, unable to, and thus accidentally triggers him constantly, is delusional about her island being paradise, AND convinces herself that her love is real (when it is not) and that Oddy will love her back if she keeps trying.

THAT is what you call a compelling villain!

As in all Calypso stories. There is NEVER a moment of clarity where Calypso realizes “if i actually love this person, i should let him go” in the musical HERMES is tasked in telling her to let him go. And she, as in all her other stories, goes on a tirade to explain/justify her actions, however you wish to see her being manipulative or honest. Regardless of how you choose to SEE calypso, at the end of the day, she has NO RIGHT to be upset at Odysseus because he was her captive. And REGARDLESS of whether Odysseus’s words are interpreted as him forgiving her, or just placating her, at the end of the day, he is her victim and she ends her next song upset that he is willingly leaving her once he got the chance. With absolutely no hope of him returning her feelings. It’s not his job to make her feel better, she IS an antagonist, and you are allowed to love her no matter how that might upset others. It is ONLY a problem when you take it to such extremes that you are in other peoples comments acting as if Calypso is a real person who needs defending. You are more than in your right to block people who come into YOUR videos accusing you of somehow being a bad person because you like a bad person. That’s not how fiction works.

Once again. My analysis of the Calypso debacle is that for some, calling Calypso a villain upsets them. Because they like her, and they are uncomfortable with the idea of liking a villain. This is a personal grievance that shouldn’t boil into fandom. Know your truth, have fun. You CAN make silly calypso videos. Many have. Her song is a bop, the meaning of the song is hilariously dark compared to the composition. Jorge did his job VERY well. Too well, that the idea of liking Calypso feels either / or when it’s not. TRUST that i would not be on the side of anyone who says “if you like calypso, youre evil”, but I HAVE seen a pattern that because Calypso is likable, than several people have made it their confused mission to tell everyone who is “mean to her” that “if you DISLIKE calypso, YOU are evil”. That’s bizarre to me. Calypso does enough evil actions in the musical to warrant that title regardless of the reasons for her actions, whether she is being purposely malicious or unconsciously so due to her lack of socialization. Being weird about real life SA survivors for a fictional character is never acceptable. For or against Calypso, whether she is a rapist or not, it is up to YOU to find like minded people who share your interpretation, not to argue with people who disagree with you in their own space. She isn’t real. Get over it.

ANYONE WHO HARASSES WAGNUI, COSPLAYERS, OR GOES INTO POSITIVE CALYPSO INTERPRETATION SPACES TO BE PURPOSELY MEAN* ARE WRONG. Otherwise. Leave them alone, they are as valid as you are. “Defending” a character is a waste of time when you could be creating for them. Calypso is a compelling villian antagonist regardless of how uwu or vile you choose to make her. Thus is the beauty of fiction.

(*purposely mean, would, logically, be someone calling you an idiot or a rape apologist for headcanoning her in a positive way. The ideal interaction with a negative calypso interpreter would be “i dont see her this way, but i understand/like your headcanon”)

WHICH BRINGS US TO Antinous:

Hilariously enough. Antinous has the complete INVERSE problem as Calypso, which was also detailed in her section for fairness sake at multiple points, and this problem is much easier to understand. Antinous is a villian antagonist in the musical Epic, and in his debut in the wisdom saga, he is shown (like calypso) to be in direct opposition to Telemachus and Penelope’s goal.

He alludes to sexual assault much more clearly than calypso. He calls Penelope a tramp to her son’s face AND suggests he let them into her room “so [they] can have fun with her” which is in the same vein as calypso saying “soon in bed we will climb” to Odysseus later on that “you (Odysseus) are mine all mine” in her own song. Like calypso, it is told to us that Antinous has been having this kind of vibe for FIVE YEARS* (a fan pointed this out to me! read here🙏🏼) as opposed to calypso’s seven years. Everyone is, usually, in agreement that Antinous is a villain in the wisdom saga and in the overall Epic musical.

Antinous’s VA is ON TikTok, and has spoken about how happy he is that fans consider him a talented person who did a spectacular rendition of such a villainous character. AND YET.

Inversely from what we saw in the Calypso section, where some of her fans are against the notion of her being portrayed as the antagonist she is, for Antinous we have MANY fans claiming that others are not ALLOWED to portray him as anything BUT an antagonist. Unlike with Calypso, where people circularly argue that her allusions to sexual assault are “too ambigous” and lead to much senseless debate on whether you’re “allowed” to like her or call her a villian, with ANTINOUS, there is this claim that he ABSOLUTELY is alluded to sexual assault and therefore, cannot be liked or treated as anything other than a villain.

As i have discussed AT LENGTH in Calypso’s section, this argumentation is pure fallacy.

There have been NUMEROUS thirst videos that have rightfully said that DESPITE the actions of the character, they still think Antinous is hot and likable (the Gaston affect, if you will). Even WITHOUT the disclaimer, it is OF COURSE understood that Antinous fans are NOT rape apologists. That is a ridiculous assumption that serves only to kill any interpretation that someone else can rightfully have.

It’s utterly devoid of nuance or actual knowledge of how to play within fandom and interact w characters.

There have been SEVERAL posts calling Antinous fans delusional for liking him and “reminding” the fandom that he is a bad guy. This serves no purpose and is utterly useless to the discourse. Antinous being a bad guy is not debated. This is factual. It doesn’t (or shouldn’t, because we cannot speak in absolutes) hurt anyone’s feelings to see an Antinous videos depicting him as the villain he is. Like with Calypso it is ONLY acceptable to call someone out if they are harassing Ayron Alexander, Antinous’s VA (which has NOT happened as i am writing this out) OR if an anti-Antinous comes into SOMEONE ELSE’s post saying anything like “if you like Antinous then you condone his actions” because as what we sane people know, that is just a silly fallacy, OR if they start shit in a cosplayers/fanfic writer/fanartists comment section.

Otherwise. Who cares that someone is saying Antinous is a villain? Block the no fun police and enjoy analysis from others who choose to see him purely as what he is, if you want. If you dont, block them to, it’s your space. You have a RIGHT to headcanon Antinous however you want, even make up AUs for him where he’s nice or lives and gets a happy ending, SO LONG AS you’re not in other people’s posts going actually Antie is my uwu child and he did nothing wrong. Cuz then youre just being dumb. And annoying. Fandom is already impatient with genuine disagreement, being a smart ass gets your head dunked in a toilet. I used to think this was common sense.

(And in case you didn’t read the Calypso section, or didn’t see enough of it there, this IS the appropriate response to people who address newer fans of her as rape apologists too, its in her section, i just also thought it was important to touch on the stranger phenomena of her other fans refusing to call her a villain because it makes them personally uncomfortable - it’s very interesting as Calypso is a female antagonist while Antinous being a male antagonist is being treated very differently for the same subject. In any case, it’s a disservice to either character and Jorge’s narrative to get upset about the very real fact that BOTH of these characters are villain antagonists.)

The very CURRENT discourse surrounding Antinous is that he was recently shipped with Telemachus.

The animator for Apollo’s section of God Games was harassed to such a point that she had to make a public apology regarding her ALTERNATE UNIVERSE scenario. And i, personally, think that’s bullshit.

There have been accusations that she was being insensitive to sexual assault survivors, and that she made a dark joke, all of which she addressed in her apology IN ADDITION to her explaining that she is ALSO a survivor of child sexual assault. She took down her work. DESPITE all of this, there are still others who continue to harass her, and claim that they dont want “a rape creator” in THEIR fandom. To those people: you don’t speak for any of us. In the same way you can claim not to believe that the animator is a survivor, i have no reason to consider your concerns in any way shape or form as being in service of victims. It is absolutely not your call, when blocking and scrolling on will ALWAYS be an option for YOU.

Even in the event someone writes Antonio’s fan fiction keeping his canon personality and characterization in a non-canon divergent way it is not grounds to harass people.

In addition to this animator, there have been SEVERAL Antinous shippers who have expressed disappointment that she was essentially harassed into a corner, as they also liked the ship and the AU she created. These people are NOT “weird” they are allowed to express themselves creatively, and if you disagree, dont even bother with leaving any sort of response — i wont read it, my time is important. Stay in your echo chamber. Even if it wasn’t an AU, and someone wants to write for Antinous as he is in the narrative, they are more than allowed to do so. Dark fiction isn’t going to traumatize you or give you cooties. Grow up.

I am MUCH more willing to ride with Antinous shippers than i ever will be with fans who attempt to control how a character is interpreted by others. Because to ship Antinous with anyone, AU or otherwise, you have to have an UNDERSTANDING of why this would be a compelling thing to write/make fanart for. He is an evil character, and it would be FASCINATING to see him in fictional scenarios that (like in the calypso section) lead us to as WHY this would be an appealing and interesting take on someone. It’s OKAY to do it in fiction. He isn’t REAL. It’s not hurting EVERYONE. And more so than with calypso, it IS understood that Antinous HAS victims in Penelope and Telemachus There’s no senseless debate on what he is, a villain, no one is arguing he is a uwu babygirl so please sympathize w him, it’s inherently understood even among his FANS.

This is why find Antonio’s and Calypso’s discourses so polarizing. Because no one is getting offended or arguing that Antinous only acts villainously because of some tragic backstory or sympathetic reason. It would be absurd to.

That’s the appeal of a lovable villain. Because like Calypso, Antinous IS lovable, but in such a different way that you have fans treating both characters as if they’re polar opposite when at the very LEAST, there’s on the same bracket, just different ends of them. Telemachus/Penelope and Odysseus’s plights are being MIRRORED in parallel.

THAT is what floors me about these two discourses. That they are functionally THE SAME yet are being treating as if they aren’t. I’m positive that there is an Antinous fan who detests Calypso in the same way there is a Calypso fan who detests Antinous. These are called biases. Once you KNOW your own bias, it is up to YOU to act right according to them.

You are responsible for your OWN fyp.

The Epic fandom had yet to experience such backwards discourse as this, and I wouldn’t expect Jorge or any of the VAs to dignify such trivial discourse with a response. If you’re the type to bring it up to them, you’re being awful. The popular fandom Epic tiktokers are already way too involved as it is. And even they are getting things wrong.

It almost feels remiss to say that in the NARRATIVE of the musical, both Calypso and Antinous are villian antagonists, while outside of the narrative they become dolls you can play with however you like, so long as we are not in each others comments being obtuse. I don’t expect any of my essay to even make it to a larger part of the fandom. But i HAD to get my ideas written down, because if you don’t see someone else connecting the dots you have, you have to present them yourself. Very “can’t we all just get along?” But hopefully, not as insufferable nor one-sides as others might have been. I tried to bring up ideas/points that i have not seen discussed about these two villains and why they seem to connect and go hand in hand.

Why is Calypso, as a female antagonist, given more grace than Antinous, a male antagonist, who is very firmly given none at all. It very well could be just how they were presented, and if so, ask yourself WHY these villains were presented so differently. What purpose do they serve? What are they trying to accomplish? These are questions more suited for actual fandom collaboration that is being drowned out by circular arguements. It feels like homework, instead of knee-jerk reacting to interpretations unlike your own.

To ME, these two characters are two sides of the same coin. (though I DO think it’s funny that the NEUTRAL phrase to refer to either character is “I hate them BUT” because in reasonable fandoms, this is understood inherently….but in this fandom such decorum seems to be lost? For some reason?? Wisdom saga has brought out a lack of wisdom, I fear.) This is the kind of purity culture that suggest you can’t LIKE a character of their a villain, so you go out of your way to argue they aren’t, or that no one else should like them: that’s bonkers. You might disagree and it might even upset you, but that’s a you problem to have.

Having said that, and if you are POSITIVE that you want to engage in conversation with me, you are welcome to do so.

[differentnerddiplomatopera]

Modern Odysseus/Diomedes/Penelope AU 

When Odysseus married Penelope, he built her an art studio with an adjoining greenhouse. He blindfolded her and walked her over to it. When he removed the blindfold, he handed her the key to open it. She opened it, and was in awe of the carpentry. She saw the greenhouse and was like, “ohmahgodyouareawesomeiloveyousomuchtheywillneverfindyourbody.” 

Penelope, after kissing him stupid, talks about all the stuff she needs to put in it. Odysseus,  then produced the highest quality art supplies, and the best gardening tools and equipment. Penelope went weak in the knees, and Odysseus had to catch her. Fun

Odysseus works at a theater. I don’t know. Just feels right.

Penelope is an art teacher, and owns her own place. 

When Diomedes comes to one of Odysseus' shows (they knew each other, and they are meeting up for the first time in a long time), Odysseus is floored. Shamelessly staring, looking up all his social media’s all that stuff.

At said show, during intermission, Odysseus pulls Pen over and they both  gawk at Diomedes. Penelope is more subtle than Odysseus.

That night, they just search up everything they can find about Diomedes. All that stuff, marriage status, work, hobbies, pictures, etc. The start of a good relationship, internet stalking. They have a screaming match when they find out he is married, but have a dance party a few days later when Diomedes tells them he is getting a divorce.

All three hang out with a hell of a lot of tension. Dio helps Pen in the greenhouse, and Odysseus is off in a corner, debating whether he should take a picture of two of the prettiest people alive while they are talking about hyacinths.

Penelope really likes Diomedes. At first he is really shy and reserved around her, but when they get closer, he opens up. And when they get to talking about Odysseus, she can’t help but notice that beautiful flush when he talks about him.

Same thing with Odysseus. When they talk about Penelope, Diomedes tries his best not to affectionately recount his interactions with her. Odysseus internally jumps with joy like, “yes stay with us, leave that devil of a wife, fall for us, do it, do it nowww”

One night, after a bad fight with his wife, Diomedes gets invited to a night out with Odysseus and Penelope. Beautiful night out, Diomedes realized he feels more at home with them than with his wife. He prays the private investigator will quickly get the rest of the information to expedite the end of his marriage.

They went to a carnival. 

The boat ride malfunctioned and somehow while everyone fell into the water, Odysseus was the only one left on the boat. He was the only one who made it to the end. Penelope and Diomedes clapped for him as he got off.

Diomedes did balloon darts. He was originally encouraged not to because the game was rigged, but was told he should do it by a really tall woman. He won. 

Penelope participated in an art competition. She originally finished it in the first ten minutes, but everyone else wasn’t done. She kept painting over it while she waited, and it was the most beautiful thing the judges and the other contestants had ever seen. She was the OBVIOUS winner.

After, they walk on the boardwalk as the sun goes down, Odysseus and Penelope clinging to Diomedes on either side. Diomedes feels so guilty, cus he thinks he is a clingy intruder in their marriage. 

Odysseus snaps him out of his daydreaming. They ask him what's wrong. He tentatively explains, worried they are gonna confirm his fear and politely ask him to spend less time with them. Not that he would refuse. He would do anything they asked.

Odysseus and Penelope snicker at his outrageous theory. They explain their  feelings for him and asks if he would honor them by being their partner. Diomedes is like “…..what?” Diomedes is generally scared to agree, because they are married, they are “changing” for him, and what if they break up with me, and I don’t want another heartbreak, what happens when-

And when they kiss him, the world just feels okay. Just okay.

I’m not satisfied with this. 

Take it anyway.

Please. 

Muchos besos.

[yescallmejosey]

something something being blessed by greeks gods

Decided to make an entire au based on the many different takes of the gods blessing different characters. By the way this is just me throwing ideas so it might be a bit...ooc.

Also this is going to be a long post so bear with me

PENELOPE

Ever since the Troyan war, Hera has made sure that Penelope's mental state does not deteriorate. She has blessed the woman with dreams of her husband, dreams of hope and reuniting him with her once again. On nights where Penelope cant sleep, Hera offers her the comfort of drowsiness and dreamless sleep. There are times in which Penelope cannot move or get out of bed or moments in which she can only look at the horizon, hoping that in the distance Odysseus's boat would become visible. And in those moments Hera speaks words in Telemachus's ears disguised as his own thoughts. They tell him to check on his mother and comfort her if that is what she needs.

But when the suitors came, Hera knew things would be so different. So she whispered words in Penelope's dreams with the voice of her husband, telling her to set The Challenge up in case of emergency. She couldnt help but to be proud of Penelope when she came up with the idea of tricking the men with her weaving.

She does small actions, hiding the weapons of the suitors in corners of the castle so they cannot reach them and taunt Telemachus. She floods the gardens with peacocks that bite the suitor's ankles and mess up their feasts. She grants Penelope swift thinking and steps when she does not want the suitors to be near her, or shuts doors on their faces.

There is not much Hera can do, not much that makes her husband realize she is favoring Penelope at least. She wishes she could reveal herself to the queen of Ithaca, offer her comfort and reassure her that her husband lives and that he is trying to get back home to her, but she cannot.

Penelope is the queen of Ithaca, loyal to her husband until her death. Hera is the queen of the gods, loyal to her husband for all eternity.

In a way, they are the same.

Except she can help Penelope to get the happy ending she always deserved

CTIMENE

I would be lying if I said i wasnt torn between making Hephaestus or Ares as Ctimene's partron gods. The truth is that they both fit.

Ares would understand the rage in Ctimene's heart, the jelousy that fills her mind. He is also the shadow of his sister, of Zeus's favorite child. He would teach Ctimene how to control her anger through fighting, the spear that collected dust could now have a purpose. She would leave behind her vases, never touching clay again before becoming a guard for the king of the Same.

Murder and bloodshed would be her first choice

Ruthlessness will not get her heart broken

Hephaestus would also understand her bitterness. The gods of Olympus treat him as something less than them just because he did not held beauty or because of his missing leg. He was disabled, but that did not mean he was useless. Creativity is his weapon, his out of the scarring feelings he held. He would reach to Ctimene to show her that her vases could be something wonderful, that she could do so much more. Learning about weapons and their weaknesses, learning how to make a rope dart with the magnents that the Seme gathered.

Her rage would be tamed by the abilities of her mind.

EURYLOCHUS

Eurylochus cares for those he loves and will fight for them if needed. We know he cares for the crew, their well being always being first for him. We know Aphrodite has a war side, Aphrodite Areia and that she is just as ruthless as a warrior to protect those she loves.

He would be her chosen one, and she bless him in so many different ways. The rush of adrenaline he feels when he thinks about Ctimene in the battle, the anger of the betrayal after Scylla.

His love for Ctimene fuels Aphrodite's caring nature, reminding her of her and her godly lover. Eurylohus and Ctimene are what Ares and Aphrodite could never be, happily married. The Olympians would frown upon that.

So she guides him, protects him as much as she can. Though her blessings sometimes are beyond needed. The art of seduction on a very a awkward does not turn out well and neither does the urges of the goddess to make him trick others in acts of lust.

Although

She is a good sex therapist and she does offer him good stamina when he and Ctimene have sex

I think I might write about that if you guys are interested

[helpami-flaffy]

EPIC THE MUSICAL OPINIONS, VERY OPINIONS, VERY MINE.

IF YOU DON'T WANT SOME NEGATIVITY DON'T READ. THIS IS NOT PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE I SWEAR.

MOSTLY COMPILED AT NIGHT, SOME REVISION.

PLEASE DO NOT COME AT ME.

.....................

After this saga I'm left kind of perplexed about epic.

What is epic trying to say here? What's the musical's stance on ruthlessness?

Because it isn't very clear to me anymore.

Is it bad? Is it good and just? Is it a necessary evil? Is it worth becoming something monstrous just to achieve your goals?

The thing I'm trying to say is:

Is epic a tragedy or a triumph?

Until the vengeance saga I thought it was the former, but now I'm not so sure.

Throughout the story Odysseus takes desicions that either side with what I'll call the 'open arm mentality' or the 'ruthless' mentality.

He gets punished for both a number of times.

He kills Astianax so he doesn't have to fear his future vengeance.

He spares Polyphemus and that leads to 558 men dying.

He appeals to Circe's humanity and that leads her to freeing his men and helping him get to the underworld.

He sacrificed 6 men to Scylla and that leads to 'mutiny' and 'thunder bringer' where the rest of his crew dies and he ends up in calypso's island where she imprisoned him for 7 years.

First act of ruthlessness= good outcome

First act of open arms= bad outcome

Second act of open arms= good outcome

Second act of ruthlessness= bad outcome

(I forgot to add the sirens, that encounter is kinda strange tho.  Ody kills all of them but I wouldn't call that ruthlessness. Ruthlessness is doing whatever needs doing to get what you want. He needed to know how to get home, and killing the sirens after doesn't matter in that context. I guess it's good for future sailors? I'll count this as an altruistic positive I guess)

This breakdown isn't perfect, lots of other things happen and some things Ody does can't really be neatly categorized by this simple metric imo, but I'll continue anyway as it feels to me the story breaks down his actions in a sort of similar dichotomy.

All in all the 'good to bad' ratio seems pretty balanced, right? It's not always ruthlessness that wins the day, and 'open arms' solutions don't always work out.

So why does it feel like we're supposed to root for ruthless Odysseus? Why does it feel like the story wants us to believe that being the monster is a good if 'somewhat sad' outcome?

Why am I saying this? Well, it's 600 strikes.

Actually just- all the vengeance saga.

Why is what Ody does here supposed to be cool and awesome? Because, like, that is absolutely the angle here.

Complete with a, honestly absurd, anime power up and fighting-god-one-on-one moment.

Why does the story break down it's logic,  breaks suspension of disbelief (at least for me), to get Odysseus into a position were he can torture Poseidon into letting him go?

Wich?? Btw should not work??

Why is this how he wins?

Why are the ghosts of his friends and family no longer spectres of regrets for but terrifying promises of death?

What does this say? Was Odysseus wrong about their sacrifice? Was regret ever only a noose around his neck? I'm looking too deeply into this one lol.

In 'get in the water' we even get the obligatory appeal to Poseidon's mercy just to hammer down once again that 'open arms' doesn't work, even tho it's Athena's appeal to her father's mercy that set Odysseus free in the first place.

The saga ends with Poseidon asking Odysseus how he'll sleep at night after all of this and Ody, in admittedly the coldest line ever written on paper, says:

"Next to my wife"

...

This is cool.

Extremely cool even.

But that's kind of the problem I have with it.

The song ends in a badass way. This is meant to be the final zing to seal Odysseus' cool ass victory.

And in all of this, not once, does the story seem to recognize that...well...

Poseidon won.

Hell not even Poseidon recognized it!

I'm not even saying "OoOh if it was realistic Poseidon would have have won!" (Tho yeah, ask me about that, lol)

In the great ideological battle that's at the center of Epic: the musical, Poseidon was the ultimate victor.

Ruthless is what wins at the end, it's what gets Odysseus home. Odysseus might be a monster but he's a victorious one.

I feel people and the musical both don't really acknowledge that.

That even if Poseidon lost the battle he ultimately won the war.

Were is the irony? Where's the bitterness and sorrow? We're Poseidon's bloodied, mocking smirk revelling in his victory?

Is Epic a tragedy or a power fantasy?

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Epic The Musical what if

(What if Eurylochus died instead of Polites?)

-We can say that most of the Troy saga would be the same. From (The Horse and the infant. To Polyphemus)

-The big change is during survive, when Polyphemus reveals his club and goes to strike Polites, but by a change of fate. Odysseus notices a second sooner, pushing Polites out of the way, saving them both. But Eurylochus wasn’t so lucky.

-The club killed him. And Odysseus felt a rage. This is what happens when you approach with open arms.

-Remember them changes to. “Avenge them.”

-Odysseus does the same plan as before. Blinding the cyclops. But the difference was that he felt a new burning rage. A hatred for these cyclops. They killed the blinded Polyphemus.

-They weren’t leaving until they killed the giants on the island.

-Polites pleads that they killed enough. But Odysseus berates him. Saying that his weakness is what made Eurylochus die. If they had attacked first they would have won.

-Odysseus experiences a different version of “My goodbye” as Athena leaves him because he is now acting more like Ares than a student of hers.

-Polites was against the several months they spent hunting and killing those giants

- Odysseus and his crew end up killing the giants on the island. And restocked on food. They leave the island. When a storm hits. (Basically the same result where they see the sky island)

- Luck runs out plays but with a slight change. It’s Polites suggesting that they don’t interact with the wind god. That they leave and not push their luck. But Odysseus ignores his advice.

-Odysseus gets the bag of winds. And the shenanigans ensues.

-The winds bring them to Poseidon. Who is a LOT more pissed off. Yea they killed his son, but they killed his sons. And in their brutality, Poseidon found out it was Odysseus that did it. And he is brutal. Killing most of the crew. The song Ruthlessness is the same but it talks about the difference between Ruthlessness and vengeance.

-They escape cause the wind bag.

-after this Polites actually tells Odysseus that the cruelty is what caused them this pain. That they need compassion.

-Puppeteer happens but with Polites being the one to return and he tells Odysseus that they need a plan. He was not going to leave them to be pigs like Eurylochus.

-Basically “Wouldn’t you like” and “Done for” happen the same. But Odysseus kills Circe thanks to Hermes’s giving him the power. This unfortunately means that there was no way of turning the men back from pigs.

-Polites pointed out that they could have saved their men if they had talked to her. But Odysseus points out that she was trying to kill them. And he chose them.

-Because of this, Polites speaks up. He says that Odysseus went too far.

-Fortunately Hermes shows up and helps them get to the underworld (he is the messenger)

-It’s there where the underworld saga occurs. And the underworld song has Odysseus hear Eurylochus instead of Polites.

-No longer you is the same

-“Monster” is sung but with a different inflection. Odysseus realizes he has become a monster and resolves to try and be more compassionate. War had made him lose himself

-“suffering” was the same, but “Different beast” is very different as when the Syrens were captured. They made a deal, if the Syrens helped the crew navigate passed Scylla. They would spare them.

-Unfortunately, this plan failed as the Syrens betrayed them to Scylla and they lost 6 men.

-Mutiny occurs but not because of Polites orchestrating it. But Perimedes.

-Polites tried to stop it. But the crew caught Odysseus off guard and He and Polites were captured.

-The crew killed the cow on the island of the Sun god. And of course Zeus shows up.

-But he had a twist. Since Polites had sided with Odysseus. Polites would not be killed in the crew part of the decision.

-The ship is destroyed as the result of Thunderbringer.

-Odysseus and Polites wake up on Calypso’s island. Where Polites accepts the hospitality with open arms. Odysseus is missing his wife and mourning his mistakes. Polites does help keep Ody from being suicidal.

-The events of the wisdom saga are the same, though the flashbacks are altered.

-Eventually after seven years, divine intervention does kick in. But Calypso isn’t as hard to convince to let Odysseus go. She decided she liked Polites more. And Polites agreed to stay with Calypso. Odysseus apologizes to Polites for not heeding his advice and now he’s stuck there.

-But Polites assures him that he was doing what he thought was right. The song is altered to “Don’t be sorry” he has a hot goddess wife.

-Odysseus thanks them both. Telling them he loves them both. And wishing them all the happiness.

-Odysseus then heads off with the help of Hermes.

-Odysseus eventually gets home. Kills the suitors and reunites with his wife and son.

-Odysseus receives a message from Polites. To remember to receive this return to his life with open arms.

[somepsychopomp]

Omegaverse but its omega!Odysseus & alpha!Penelope

(First off, let's get one thing straight. They're both jacked. Penelope would've been forced to train in athletics regardless of her secondary gender since she was born in Sparta. So despite being a woman, as an alpha she was expected to know how to race, fight, and hunt. Odysseus learned most of what he knows about war and strategy from Athena, who looked past his secondary gender and saw the promise he had.)

Anyways,

When the other kings start gathering up armies to take to Troy, both Ody and Penelope try to dodge that draft like crazy because honestly, either one of them could be forced to go. Despite Odysseus' "unfortunate" secondary gender, he's widely known as one of the best strategists alive. In contrast, Penelope (despite spending most of her days organizing the house and weaving on the side) has the experience of a fierce and formidable warrior. And neither of them want to leave because they've just had their first child.

So when Agamemnon and Menelaus and co. show up on Ithaca, it's go-time. Odysseus, still recovering after giving birth to Telemachus like 3 months ago, pretends to be bedridden and sickly while Penelope feigns madness by doing the thing about yoking a donkey to an ox and plowing the fields in crooked rows.

The other kings are like "damn Ithaca is super screwed we should just leave", but one of them doubts that both Ithacan rulers are incapable of going to war. So they steal Telemachus from his cradle and put him out in the field. If Odysseus is too sick to save his son and Penelope is too mad to notice her infant child in her path, then they're exempt from war.

Penelope doesn't notice Telemachus hidden in the tall grass, but Odysseus was pulled out of bed by a servant who claimed to see a man stealing the young prince!

Odysseus runs out into the field and rescues Telemachus before he can be trampled. Cue the other kings all pointing their fingers and smugly declaring that Odysseus must go to war.

Penelope realizes what's happened only after it's over. If she had figured out their trick sooner, she would've veered the plow away in order to save her son and to protect her omega from going to Troy.

But it's too late.

Odysseus admits that his illness was a ruse, but he keeps up the act about Penelope being mad. He doesn't want to risk the kings suggesting that he and Penelope both go. After all, the other kings are evenly divided in opinion; half want Odysseus for his mind despite his "inferior" omega nature, while the other half want Penelope for her prowess despite her being a woman. (After all, she did spend like a whole day pushing a plow without rest.)

In the end, Odysseus and 600 men ready themselves for war. Before he leaves, Penelope tries one last time to convince him to stay so she can go. She even begs at his feet, trying to use logic to sway him: he's still recovering from childbirth, Telemachus needs his dam, it was her fault for not spotting their son in the field.

Odysseus smiles and kisses her softly, reassuring her that the taking of Troy is expected to be a swift conflict. Likely no more than a year. He'll be back before she knows it!

And the rest is history.

[randomatthingy]

Elpenor and Perimidies shouldn't have been cut. I don't care if we have to have more than 40 songs (honestly, that's an up-side). There are multiple reasons:

Point 1 - It makes us connect with the crew more. As of now, we don't have that many connections to the crew. Polities die like thirty minutes into the show, and Eurylochus, while I think is highly over-hated, is an antagonist and not the best character in the world. Having more people with us throughout the show at large makes us care about the crew more beyond the basic "They are human. I am human. My morality says I should care for them."

Point 2 - They show more grounded characters. Polities are pretty much what would happen if pure sunshine and a golden retriver had a baby who was raised by cinnamon rolls. Eurylochus, like I said, is a pretty unlikeable character. Elpenor and Perimidies are well...just some men.

Point 3 - It makes losses feel more. If you think, we could have one death for each major encounter. Cyclops = Polities. Poseidon and Circe = Elpenor (Elpenor dies on Circe's island, but we would see him after the men in The Underworld, the majority of which died to Poseidon, tying him to both, and driving home how many people died in Ruthlessness. This would also give us two encounters per verse). Finally, Perimidies and Eurylochus = Zeus (which had two men die would drive home how Odysseus is alone now). This would make it feel like we are experiencing losses at every turn, not something like "OH NO! Not background extra #152!"

Point 4 - The Perimidies depression-sub arc would give us another theme in the show beyond "Should I become monster Rawr rawr rawr?" and maybe add a way for people to relate to him (and make Thunder Bringer hurt more) and given the cut song "Cope With That" we could also have a debate about healthy and non-healthy coping methods, which could tie into the Ruthlessness theme with "should we have the ruthlessness to cut someone we love off of an unhealthy coping mechanism if it's working but detrimental to them and their loved ones as a whole."

Point 5 - This is solely based on Elpenor's only significant event in the source material involves him being drunk, but he could have been some sort of comic relief if we needed any more.

Point 6 - With some scenes with Elpenor and Perimidies, we could get the vibe that the crew as a whole was slowly turning against Odyssey, not just Eurylochus. Right now, the only indication is the end of "Luck Runs Out" and the last chorus of "Different Beast"

Point 7 - It could be a bigger mystery as to who opened to bag, as even before The Thunder Saga a lot of people guessed Eurylochus, but if we had more major named characters in the crew, they could also be suspects.

Point 8 - Perimidies betrayal in Mutiny would hurt even more

Point 9 - 🏳️‍🌈

[wolfnight2012]

"We'll be Fine" is the new "Open Arms"

(but I don't think Telemachus will be a Polites-like character, though I do have suspicions that some of his songs/motifs/or at least one scene in the final saga all work as a call-back to Polites/Open Arms)

But anyways!

While I am not claiming a 1:1 comparison, "We'll be Fine" sees Telemachus in a Polites-like role with Athena, who has assumed a post-Troy!Odysseus like role in regards to her guilt over how she ended things with Odysseus in "My Goodbye"

We've got:

an ecstatic declaration of friendship (new vs established)

We've got the positivity/look on the brighter side/things will work out

AND most importantly (imo) we have the Call to Action! The "You have the power to change things/it doesn't have to be this way/life can be better if you work to make it so

Polites gets Odysseus to consider "Open Arms" at the end of his song (though, tragically, he dies before he can teach Odysseus how to effectively implement this belief system & Odysseus then fucks it up during the Ocean Saga)

Telemachus gets Athena to reach out to Odysseus. "Maybe, its time that you lend a hand/I don't think he'll mind"

Athena was not going to reach out on her own. (maybe it was pride, maybe shame, maybe she thought she'd thoroughly burned that bridge & there was no hope for reconciliation) but Telemachus helps her realize that is not true.

On a similar note:

The Wisdom Saga as a whole argues for "Open Arms" over "Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves"

(Especially in regards to the saga's main character: Athena)

So! I spoke a bit about how Ruthlessness was not mercy upon Odysseus (or Athena) here, BUT, now that I think about it, it's not so much that the Wisdom Saga isn't about "Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves" but rather, that it IS about the sentiments expressed by Polites in "Open Arms"

(I've currently got a breakdown of "Open Arms" half-finished in my drafts, I'll link it here once I finish & post it)

But also!

The Wisdom Saga is the first saga, without a single song promoting Ruthlessness.

The Troy Saga has them using a wooden horse to kill sleeping Trojans & the killing of the infant + Eurylochus suggesting they "Strike first/raid the place"

The Cyclops Saga has Polyphemus trying to lay waste to Odysseus's entire crew + Athena telling Odysseus to finish off the threat

Ocean Saga has Poseidon

Circe Saga has Circe's decision to treat all strangers as possible threats to her nymphs & turning them into pigs

Underworld has Odysseus' decision to become the monster

Thunder Saga is the first saga where every song (except Suffering) explicitly promotes Ruthlessness

The Wisdom Saga breaks this pattern

Legendary:

Even though Telemachus is singing about fighting monsters, it comes across as very idealist. This is not an aggressive song. Telemachus doesn't sound blood-thirsty or vicious. He wants to live up to his father. He wants to be able protect his mom

He dreams of fighting monsters (an intangible threat for a kid who's never left his island) but it's clear he's never so much as been in a fight before (Little Wolf is the first time he tried it)

"So I could bring the world some light" vs "We can light up the world"

Little Wolf:

Once again, this is not an aggressive song (not on Telemachus' part)

Telemachus is being egged on/taunted by Antinous + the suitors on one side & encouraged by Athena on the other (both of whom are more aggressive than Telemachus)

Telemachus is on the defense. He's unsure. He never expresses a desire to kill/destroy Antinous beyond his desire to want to keep his mom safe

Athena comes to help Telemachus without seeking anything in return! She's not seeking a new warrior of the mind/A new kid to mentor (Telemachus shows none of the promise of his father)

She's simply giving her help. ("Why should we take when we could give?")

"Have you forgotten to turn off your heart" vs "One young wolf has a larger heart than all these men combined" she saw Odysseus' heart as a weakness/distraction, while now she realizes it can be Telemachus' greatest strength

Even the suitors!! Antinous just wants to humiliate/agitate Telemachus. He's being cruel, but not ruthless. He lets up as soon as Telemachus is defeated/shown his place. He's a "bully" but not a "monster" (at least, not yet[??])

Then we get to "We'll be Fine" which, as I mentioned above, is essentially the new "Open Arms"

We'll Be Fine:

Athena lowers her guard & essentially bares her heart to Telemachus! She tells him about this mystery friend, about her regrets, the (semi) truth about why she helped him! ("You could show a person that you trust them, when you stop and lower your guard")

Telemachus takes this trust & greets Athena with open arms, offering her his friendship, his comfort & his advice

His positivity echoes Polites' from "Open Arms" as does his belief (despite T. living under the stress of the suitors & P. having lived through a war) that everything will be fine

"Maybe, it's all gonna turn out great I know we'll be fine"

"Whatever we face, we'll be fine if we're leading from the heart"

"I know it's light you'll find"

"No matter the place, we can light up the world"

Tbh, even though it's not a direct lyrical callback, I'd argue Telemachus' advice for Athena to reach out to her friend "Maybe, it's time that you lend a hand, I don't think he'll mind" is a thematic callback either to "Here we have a chance for some adjustment, Give it a try, it's not that hard" (it's not to late to make things better via your own actions/choices) or "Kindness is brave" (you want good things to happen? Take that first leap. Don't react with fear/be paralyzed by regret)

Love in Paradise

Just like Odysseus is convinced to (at least) consider an "Open Arms" approach by Polites, Athena has been convinced by Telemachus to reach out to her friend

God Games

Athena decides she CAN "Replace [her guilt] and light up the world" by helping Odysseus

She leads from the heart with the other gods! ESPECIALLY with Ares & her declaration of Telemachus being her friend!

All 5 of her opponents respond well to Athena's arguments, she's not just using logic, she IS appealing to their heart/sympathy as well, because SHE is doing this from a place of emotion/caring

"He can still build a future with those who miss him" "His son's my friend"

"Never once has he cheated on his wife"

Once she wins, we get Athena "goddess of wisdom/master of war" once more.

She declares herself triumphant in Zeus' game & demands her prize (which sets Zeus off)

But when Zeus strikes her down, Athena humbles herself, she lowers her guard, she leads from the heart, and she doesn't demand. She doesnt even ask. She pleads for Zeus to let Odysseus go. Heart/affection on full display.

Athena gets NOTHING from this. She's no longer demanding for a reward/recognition as the witty winner of Zeus' game, ("I played your game & won" vs "Please, let him go") just asking for Odysseus to receive help

THIS is when Zeus relents. Not when he strikes her down so hard that Ares fears her dead. Not (and I hate using visuals to analyze MUSIC, but I'll give myself an exception) when Athena's armor starts to crumble. Not when she bleeds. Not when she crawls. When Athena pleads for Odysseus, that's when Zeus falters.

And

Don't read past here if you don't want spoilers/titles/speculation for upcoming sagas!

It works.

We KNOW Hermes will be sent to Odysseus to get him off Ogygia.

And, while it seems (at least to me) that in "Wouldn't You Like" Hermes appears to Odysseus of his own accord/for funsies, "You're being given one final option" (from "Dangerous") sounds like this isnt a social visit.

Hermes is here as a messenger. And I doubt the gods are going behind Zeus back for this one.

My guess? Zeus relents. With the caveat that they'll intervene to get Calypso to let Odysseus go BUT, he has to make it off the island/back home by himself.

But still. Athena's heart-felt plea works. Her pride as the clever goddess of wisdom who beat her father's game got her struck down. But leading from the heart & pleading for her friend's release succeeds.

And this is why I think (narratively) we need to close off the themes established in "Open Arms"

At the end of this post here, i talk about how it'd be nice to get some sort of closure for Polites' philosophy. Maybe with Odysseus' final confrontation with Poseidon. Maybe with Telemachus.

But after the Wisdom Saga?

I no longer think it'd simply be nice. I think its necessary for narrative closure.

The Wisdom Saga just showed us Ruthlessness was not mercy for Odysseus, who is tormented by the deaths of his crew & is now suicidal after being trapped on Ogygia for 7 years.

Ruthlessness was not mercy for Athena, who can no longer sleep at night.

Ruthlessness does not get results for any of the main characters featured in the Wisdom Saga

The philosophy Polites describes in "Open Arms" however, DOES get results.

Its what leads Athena to help Telemachus. Its how Telemachus convinces Athena to reach out to her friend. It's how Athena convinces the other gods (possibly even Zeus) to help/release Odysseus.

I now think we need one last callback to those themes. Either by Athena, by admitting she was wrong back in "Warrior of the Mind" and "My Goodbye" to demand Odysseus turn off his heart (she was not able to turn off her own heart!! She can't sleep at night! + heart is how she wins the God Games!)

OR by Telemachus, Odysseus optimistic son, who (as of the Wisdom Saga) has nothing monstrous or ruthless about him.

Maybe Odysseus gets carried away as he kills the suitors, or goes after someone who surrenders & Telemachus steps in to rein him in.

Maybe Telemachus simply reminds Odysseus of Polites.

Idk.

But I can't see "Open Arms" featuring so heavily in the Wisdom Saga's themes/narrative for there to be narrative satisfaction without one final, definitive callback in the Ithaca Saga