#Anti River Song

[jacaela]

Rewatching Doctor Who again and I can say: Rose is the best companion, RTD is the best showrunner, Moffat, River and Clara are the worst things that could happen to Doctor Who.

[variousqueerthings]

genuinely may have to make a tag for river song, because I know I'm a minority in the way I feel about her writing and place in the story, and I really feel so very negatively about the character as functioning to be The Most Special Of The Show and how that diminishes every other character (noticeably not created by moffat).

even the episode order of her first appearance -- library right after the doctor's daughter, yes it feels like the latest in a long list of people the doctor sees die and that's how ten's narrative tends to go, but it's only truly affecting because she is going to be more special than any of the others the doctor has witnessed the deaths of, honest, and you can tell because of the screwdriver and because she "knows the doctor's true name" which is hinted at as being only for the most important person in the doctor's life, and the most important person is not just romantic, it's the person the doctor marries Spoilers Wait And See It's All So Romantic Honest

and they're going to get married and it will be sad, promise, so feel sad now, because this is deeper -- deeper than rose, deeper than martha, deeper than donna, deeper than jack, deeper than jenny, deeper than the master, deeper than any classic companion or nu!who companion... and it's deeper because it's been stated to be deeper for some reason or other, which is the same as writing a narrative I guess

[sallysellsseashellssundays]

Nine and Ten going absolutely insane every time Rose, Martha, Donna were in danger

vs

River having to break her wrist to get out of the angel’s grasp b/c Eleven wouldn’t help her  😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭

[oswinpond]

re: your tags on that river post; going to be super mean and say most of eleven’s era is downright boring/unwatchable until the ponds and river leave and clara joins him 🫣

I lowkey agree... I mean I adore Amy and Rory and their relationship with Eleven despite some gripes, like the non-existen love triangle that just wouldn't quit. And s5 is decent, even if the ending is a mess and Amy's characterization is a bit spotty, but s6 is just awful IMO. With the exception of The Girl Who Waited and The God Complex, I'm never going to rewatch it. It's where River gets totally ruined and it drags down Amy and Rory in the process, and some parts of it are a bit disgusting and maybe that's a rant for later. And by ruining River, it makes me dread seeing her in s5, which takes that season down a notch in hindsight. By 7A, it feels like Moffat didn't know what to do with Amy and Rory anymore.

Then 7B is such a breath of fresh air. I don't get the hate for it at all; the only episode I consider weak is the Crimson Horror. Eleven is at his most enjoyable and least gimmicky (and best dressed lol), the episodes are generally really fun and some of them truly unique, the Impossible Girl mystery ties them all together nicely with a great ending that a lot of people misunderstand completely. It's like Moffat found his footing again, getting him ready for the spectacular s8-s9 Capaldi run.

It's saying something that 6/10 of my favourite Eleven episodes are in 7B.

[unastar47]

So, bad news, Hell Site has found out that I like Doctor Who and now won’t stop recommending posts about R!ver $ong.

[stars-and-darkness]

i was forced to look at river song in my archaeology and media course, ten dead, fifteen injured

[sallysellsseashellssundays]

Disclaimer: I’m gonna go on a huge salty anti Moffat rant in this super long post

He’s claiming Moffat wrote the best RTD era episodes and from his own time as showrunner, but honestly...I’m personally just not seeing it, and I constantly feel like I’m missing out on some massive revelation when people claim he’s like THE best ever. Idk if maybe I set my expectations too high b/c all I saw online were people saying his era was the golden era, but I’ve been disappointed ever since I started S5.

S5 episodes I liked: The Eleventh Hour, The Vampires of Venice, Vincent and the Doctor, The Lodger

S6 episodes I liked: The Curse of the Black Spot, The Doctor’s Wife, Night Terrors, The God Complex

The only S7 episode I’ve liked (so far) is Dinosaurs on a Spaceship

With the exception of “The Eleventh Doctor” literally every episode I’ve liked has been written by someone else   😭     😭     😭 not just that but I’ve felt his own episodes have fallen flat and have actually been the weaker ones of the series’ that I’ve seen so far.

And even though I thought his RTD era episodes were good, even on first watch they weren’t my favorites, on rewatch I feel like I’ve liked them even less because they are essentially the basis of all his era’s themes that I heavily dislike.

The Doctor Dances has Jack (RTD’s invention) and the “Everybody lives” moment and it’s delivered brilliantly by Chris but that’s like the OG inspiration for characters constantly being killed off in Moffat’s era only to be brought back to life or have it be a fake death. There’s so many pointless “deaths” I’ve actually lost count.

Blink is one of those episodes that I thought had an interesting concept only for Moffat’s era to completely ruin the Weeping Angels IMO and it had the creepy stalker behavior that squicks me out: Sally’s friend is followed by that one guy, and in the Xmas special with the forest people Madge said she met her husband b/c he kept following her home, not to mention Eleven was being pretty creepy with Clara-- camping out in front of her home (!) when he’s a stranger to her and she’s made it relatively obvious she doesn’t want him around.

Speaking of squicks Girl in the Fireplace is the start of the “Child meets character and hits on/falls in love with character when grown up” theme: Reinette with Ten, Kazran with Abigail, Amy with Eleven, Clara with Eleven, and River with Eleven.

Which is very closely tied to...”Child meeting the Doctor and being so impacted by merely seeing him they become practically obsessed and/or it shifts their entire life”: Reinette- she is truly the OG ‘I have an imaginary friend’ character. Amy- enough said. Lorna- it’s implied she became a soldier ONLY b/c she wanted to meet him. River/Mels- enough said. Even those 3 children at the end of ‘Closing Time’ saw him ONCE and apparently reminisced as adults on the strange man they saw, one of them being able to tell he was happy and sad at the same time b/c of course children would remember that about a stranger /s.

Which is also leading to...”Moffat character being an expert on the Doctor (knowing him better than anyone else) when we don’t even see them interacting much on screen”: Reinette with Ten, Amy with Eleven, River with Ten AND Eleven.

And my all time favorite of course...”Character waiting for the Doctor”: Reinette waiting like a damsel in distress for her fireplace man has nothing on Amy being nicknamed “the girl who waited”. River- even worse she was waiting in prison. Bonus points for Rory waiting 2000 (!!!!) years for Amy.

The Library episodes had an interesting villain and DT delivered the hell out of some of those lines especially with the “look me up” scene but there’s the River not really dying thing (everybody lives ya’ll) plus us hearing a character through a device crying out for help/being scared: Ms. Evangelista ghosting (still trying to comprehend how that happened?), Amy’s nano recorder sequence when the Silence took her in S5 intro episode (how? how? it was supposed to record your voice, right? not function like a microphone??), Clara not knowing where she was (Bells of Saint John). Bonus: “Are you my mummy?” could have been the OG version really.

And don’t get me started on how he’s gone and changed everything from RTD’s era.   You have no idea how many S1-S4 clips I’ve seen on Youtube where people are going “oh the Doctor was lying here because that’s rule number one”. No. No, he wasn’t lying b/c this was filmed years before Moffat decided to make THAT rule number one. And I haven’t even watched the 50th anniversary special yet but I’ve been spoiled to so many things. I’ve seen comments on S1-S4 clips when the Doctor is referring to the Time War from Moffat fans who are going “this is crazy to watch b/c the Doctor was suppressing the War Doctor stuff” and it’s just super annoying that everything the Doctor was based on when he was Nine and Ten is written over completely.

I just...don’t get the appeal of him as a writer. And I’m skimming the surface here obviously, I haven’t even touched so many other million problematic things.

‘zero misogyny’ glad to see we’re ignoring every single female character written by this man…

[borislava17]

Am I the only one who actually thought that scene with Daemon and his mother was just pure torture by Alys?! I am in no way a Daemon lover and stan, but the way I feel like people forget that Alyssa died when he was only 3 and he has no memory of her and Alys (in my opinion almost mocks him) says that he does not know how she looks like. Also I feel like Daemon didn’t know it was her until she said how he is her favorite son. His expression after the vision was shocking, scared even, he was mortified. I think people need to remember that this visions are created by Alys to torment him and the one with Alyssa is not some fucked up sex fantasy like some people try to make it out to be.

[jacaela]

Big finish made Rose dirty to make River Song look good. They just took Rose's image and made her into some boring ninny. RTD's Rose could have easily knocked River down as a character. She's a very interesting and simple character who wasn't born to travel in the tardis, who just got lucky and repaid the Doctor with her kindness and determination to save him at all costs, which had a huge impact on him, but the writers need to erase all of that to give River a chance to shine.

[danytheconqueror-jonthewhitewolf]

Was re-reading Bran's chapters in ADWD specifically for Bloodraven drama, and this line came up

"When?" Bran wanted to know.

"In a year, or three, or ten. That I have not glimpsed. It will come in time, I promise you. But I am tired now, and the trees are calling me. We will resume on the morrow."

And it got me thinking a crack headcanon that younger, Blackfyre era Bloodraven would use the phrase "the trees are calling me." as a way to get out of things.

Example.

He's been stuck in a small council meeting for the last two hours, listening to the master of coin and the master of ships arguing about the royal fleet budget.

He's running on two hours of sleep because he spent the entire night warging into horses, birds, and cats in the Riverlands, waiting for those thrice damned Brackens to talk about their plans of supporting the Blackfyer pretenders and committing treason.

So he abruptly stands up, fixes his cloak and hood, looks everyone in the eye, and says, "I must go my Lords. The trees are calling me." It's his bed. His bed is calling him.

And he just exists the room as dramatically as he can (which is a lot) while swooshing his cloak.

Nobody questions him because they're pretty used to the Targaryen theatrics, including Lord Bloodraven's gothic version.

-

Years later

Shiera: What do you mean you killed Aenys Blackfyer?! What do you mean you're going to the Wall?!

Brynden: [cupping his ear] Oh, what's that? Apologies, my love, the trees are calling me [speedwalks away]

Shiera: Wha- Brynden Rivers, get your pale, scrawny ass back here!

Brynden: [still speedwalking] I would my sweet love, but the trees-

Shiera: Really, the trees?! Again, with that?! You've been trying to use that one on me for decades!"

[Brynden starts running]

[Shiera starts running faster]

*ignore the fact that Shiera is kind of dead at this point*

[supermanliveson]

They hate real characters and love Mary Sues; not much to it.

ppl who hate rose but love river should be studied in labs

[fatum679]

After reading the crazy crap that has been posted on r/HOTDGreens lately, I don't want to have anything to do with "TG stans" anymore.

These people need therapy, they are very cruel in their fantasies and very toxic to those who don't share their opinions, and I'm not talking about TB stans. I advise you to avoid this trash can.

I still root for the TG characters, but since the book and season 1 I do not support Aegon and Alys and now after season 2 I do not support Alicent.

TG is not only Aegon and Alicent.

[sallysellsseashellssundays]

Disclaimer/warning: anti-thasmin

not even sure if i should tag this b/c ship wars can get ugly but i'm watching thirteen's era and honestly trying to find the thasmin breadcrumbs is like trying to find a needle in a haystack

i'm a doctorrose shipper but i've tried going into the moffat and chibnall eras with an open mind, and i genuinely feel bad for the fans of the other ships

like, i literally always thought the doctor and river storyline was going to be some epic love story based on how ppl talked about it and that was SUPER disappointing to watch (justice for river she deserved a better writer!)

and now I thought thasmin was going to be like a huge thing and a big part of Thirteen's story based on posts i'd seen on Tumblr...i'm only watching episodes i've been rec'd by a friend but that's still at least half of the series where i'm not seeing the chemistry at all

thirteen even seems a bit distant from her friends so i really don't know how chibnall is going to transform this into a love story...

[ghost-bison]

Doctor Who - Opinions

-the ninth doctor was the best. no one will ever be as good as he was

-same for donna, best companion, no one will ever compare

-imo 9th > 10th > 12th > 14th > 11th > 13th (dunno about 15th yet, haven't seen enough of him)

-donna > rose > jack > martha > nardole > bill > river/clara > rory > graham >>>>>>>>>>>>>> amy (idk about yaz and ryan I honestly dont see any distinctive personality traits apart from the fact that ryan is always complaining and generally unpleasant)

-ninerose >>>>>>>> tenrose

-clara is a cool character, it's just her plots that made people dislike her

-i don't get the obsession people have over thoschei. or the master in general and his relationship with the doctor? apart from missy and twelve ofc

-i could never warm up to amy, nor do i get how people can like her. she was abusive, not a girlboss. didn't deserve rory

-i have mixed feelings about river. like obviously, slay my goddess, but also, she's everything that's wrong with moffat's writing of women? she's actually dependant and praises the doctor and never makes a decision for herself? never questions the doctor? that's not ok

-idc how good moffat's storylines get, i'll choose rtd any day. i'll refer you to this post as to why.

-chibnall's era feels flat. i don't hate 13, she's adorable, but I used to laugh and cry several times an episode during the first ten series. now it's like twice a series if we're lucky.

-i liked the campy effects way better than the disney-style expensive cgi they now use to try and balance out mediocre writing (I'm sorry but wtf was that Space babies episode and how did they manage to make it even more cringe than the series one Slitheen two-parters?)

[darklinaforever]

Frankly, people who are in mode : But why are you shocked that Daemon has incestuous problems linked to his mother ? It's a show about incest !!!

Its stupid.

Sorry but do your research. The Targaryens do not and have never had this type of incestuous relationship. This never happened and it's as disrespectful as ever to the source material.

Not to mention having the audacity to make Alyssa Targaryen, a cool and strong female character, appear for the first time on screen, through a sexual dream imposed on Daemon by Alys who rapes his mind.

Yes because I feel like people intentionally forget that these dreams / visions are not Daemon's will but Alys literally violating his mind. Daemon was 3 years old when his mother fucking died...

Without forgetting everything I've already said here :

This is not good writing, and no, in general there is no criticism against incest and the trauma that may be linked to it, in GRRM's work as I said here :

And here :

[marysblo0d]

Me every time Alys fucks with Daemon