#Again!!! I'm not saying it IS about queerness!!!

[alchemistc]

Part One

They don't tell anyone. Not about the marriage certificate, at least. Buck comes back from his conference with a new-old boyfriend and money exchanges hands despite protest from the losers that Bobby had inside knowledge.

(He did not.)

They put the rings away. They talk a bunch of shit out that they'd only skimmed the surface of on the patio of that dingy bar.

Buck buys him that beer.

Finally.

Things are - things aren't easy. Buck skips ahead in his own mind and desperately backpedals before Tommy notices (he hopes). Tommy continues to be tight lipped about things, goes with the flow more often than he should and absolutely hates being called out about it.

Eddie is slow to readjust to having Tommy back in their lives.

With Chris back, he swears up and down he believes Buck that they're both serious about this, but he invites Tommy over less, doesn't involve him in Chris's life as often. Buck tries desperately not to let Eddie's hesitancy inform any of the feelings bubbling in his chest, any of the half-formed futures in his head.

Bobby calls Tommy and they go out for coffee and Tommy spends a week pretending to be so fucking fine about whatever they talked about that Buck starts baking again.

Tommy's abs get a little less defined.

Buck takes him to a gay bar, because they never did that before, never explored anything that wasn't just the two of them, never talked about the community or the history or the impact of being queer. The first time someone approaches their spot at the corner of the bar, Tommy seems to be trying incredibly hard not to read into any of the reactions Buck is having, and failing miserably.

But the thing is. The thing is Buck did this on his own. Petty, unhappy, Tommy's words swirling in his head, he's tried a few dozen times to find another person remotely as appealing as the one at his side, and they'd all fallen short.

When the guy asks Buck if he wants to dance Buck blurts out words before he can think about it that he's absolutely certain are gonna send Tommy spiraling. "Appreciate the offer, but I'm here with my husband. We're celebrating."

The guy blinks. He's young. Younger than Buck, slim and attractive, dark brown eyes and light brown skin that glows golden even in the crappy bar lighting. His gaze darts almost eagerly between them, like he's seeing something he hadn't expected. Something hopeful blooms in his gaze, and Buck - oh.

Buck gets it.

That's a lot of weight to carry just for existing in the world and trying to snatch some happiness from it.

Buck smooths a hand over Tommy's knee and smiles at him, something soft and settled that has been harder to find this time around but still curls up against his spine like it belongs there.

The kid buys them a round and leaves.

"What are we celebrating?" Tommy asks, and Buck pretends not to notice the way his thumb is rubbing over the bare patch of skin where Buck had slid a ring, a few months ago. He's not freaking.

"Whatever we want," Buck says with a shrug, and doesn't mention that neither one of them have brought up the marriage certificate tucked away in Tommy's safe since they got back from Vegas.

---

"The Abby thing is still weird," Buck says, breath heaving as Tommy rearranges Buck's legs and tucks himself into Buck's side. They'd spent an evening talking candidly about their exes because Buck can't understand how they went six months without realizing.

Tommy's hands shift through the hair Buck stopped shaving the first time Tommy admitted he preferred it to the baby smooth skin Buck had tried desperately to maintain for the first four months. It's just now feeling normal, after so many years of keeping it smooth.

"I think she'd freak more than you did."

"I managed to implode a six month relationship with my freak, Tommy."

Tommy chuffs a laugh. Slides his calf up and down Buck's lower leg, and despite the fact that Buck has a few more notches in his belt that'd had that same scritch of hair against his, Buck relishes the feel just because it's Tommy.

"You had help." He pauses, though, tips his chin and tucks it against the give of Buck's shoulder. "I'm not implying her reaction was particularly homophobic, but - I think that was the worst part, for her. The fact that I hadn't just lied about how I felt. It was - she assumed I couldn't feel it."

Buck can't help the brow raise. "Tommy, you're a Kinsey six."

"I still loved her."

He's been working his way through romantic vs sexual vs platonic and learning a whole hell of a lot in the process. He gets Tommy's point. He's thrilled that Tommy is still in a sharing mood. It's just -

Tommy shifts, noses into Buck's underarm. Breathes deep, and Buck has to fight the urge to shove him away.

"If I'm totally off base here tell me, but I think you loved her like I love Eddie."

Tommy narrows his eyes. Contemplates. "Tell me again how jealous of his hair you were when you met," he decides on, and shrieks when Buck digs a finger into his ribs in retaliation.

---

They fight, and it's thrilling.

They never did that before. Minced their words and apologized and let it all drop away but never actually let it go, and when Tommy gets on a roll he's bitchy as hell. It drives Buck insane. He wants to wring his fucking neck. He wants to take him to the mat and actually learn enough about Muay Thai to stand a chance lasting two minutes. He wants to throw him against a wall and jack him off until he sees stars.

"He wouldn't do the same for me, Evan, so why should I bother?!"

Tommy's dad is dying. According to Tommy, it's days or weeks, not months or years, and Tommy had said it so emotionless that Buck had jokingly tried to check him for panels and plugs and wiring. Tommy hadn't appreciated the robot joke.

"Screw your dad, Tommy! Do it for yourself."

"I'm not like you, Evan! That bridge burned a decade ago. I don't need - ." He pinches the bridge of his nose. Grimaces and sucks in a breath. Usually that means he's yanking back words he knows he'll regret. Rearranging them in his mind until they're less likely to sting. "I don't want a death bed reconciliation any more than I want to be proven right about him."

Buck takes two weeks off to help Tommy plan the funeral.

Tommy tosses the contents of the urn into the ocean two weeks later, and when Buck asks about it, Tommy gives him a shifty look, like he thinks the answer might send Buck running. "He hated the ocean."

It's the last time they talk about his dad, for a while.

[straynoahide]

"Find a psychiatrist, no wait, die"

Yea, that sounds like something a totally balanced person with an integrated psychosexuality would say. I don't remember it from the Sermon on the Mount, though.

Also, that insecurity again. "Perhaps?" So perhaps not? Do you often imagine yourself handing out capital punishments?

Would you rather raise a sissy or a bully son? Do you often envision yourself as God, deciding over life and death, or is this something exceptional? Is that apotheosis reserved for your monomanic and pornographic obsession with queerness? Is it casual because your nation happens to have an antinatural law like the death penalty?

Can you imagine a court sentencing people on a "perhaps"

Please, continue responding. Show really what is in your mind and your heart so it's even more clear to anyone that isn't the two of us, what He can see all along.

And at this point, your insistence in making it personal makes the subject irrelevant. I'm not going to spell out why but your continued attempts to lecture me on health are ironically humorous and you're so clueless about, well. Everything.

[will80sbyers]

I just wanted to pop in and say thank you for all your posts. You’re a soldier Dani. Whenever I’m having doubts and scrolling through the tag, I see your posts and they kinda smack me upside the head and make me remember that I don’t really have any reasons to doubt something that has clearly been built up from the beginning and was left on an unresolved high note in season 4.

Although, in my defense, the reason I get doubts is because was a k/ance shipper when I was a dumb teenager, but now as a dumb adult, I can say k/ance didn’t even have 2% of the proof Byler does, but yknow sometimes there’s that voice in the back of my head that sounds like Theadore from Alvin and the chipmunks telling me that I’m just getting queerbaited again.

ANYWAY I appreciate you so much and just wanted to send you a nice ask, since I know you get a lot of hate!

Thank you dear!! ❤️❤️

Honestly I get why people have doubts, we queer people have had to deal with so much queerbaiting or just our queer shows being all cancelled, you really never know even against all logic... there's always that 1% of possibility that straight people are being intentionally or mindlessly cruel writing about our experiences and don't give them as much care as they do with the storylines of straight characters

so I get it, it's probably usually healthier to not trust in it so you don't get heartbroken again, but in this case I'm really convinced there's TOO MUCH stuff and it has surpassed the "it could be a coincidence" option wayyyyyyy too long ago! It would be a level of intentional cruelty I would have never seen before if Byler didn't happen

Lucky for us, I believe we have nothing to worry about and they are good writers that have been building this story and this slow burn romance between Will and Mike and also have been planning for El to become her own person at the end of the show, the narrative is really telling us that and we have so many parallels that would be a complete waste of time and resources if it didn't mean anything for the story + if you look at all the other seasons they are ALWAYS foreshadowing things that happen in the season after and imagine putting this intentional ass COUPLE framing in the show and then doing absolutely nothing about it I would be flying to the Duffers house and knocking on their door asking for ANSWERS because WHY WOULD ANY DIRECTOR DO THIS IF THEY DIDN'T MEAN A ROMANTIC PAIRING WHEN ONE OF THEM IS CONFIRMED IN LOVE WITH THE OTHER!!!!

Anyway sorry I started rambling about them again lmfaooooo but as you know we have SOOOO MANY reasons to logically believe in Byler, it's not crazy to believe in it at all and there's so many people that literally STUDY cinema that said the same thing we are saying 🤷

Byler will be endgame! 🌈🌈🌈

[mila-carat]

Even INI noticed that Takumi and Yudai's hug scene was a little bit "🤨🏳️‍🌈?" and to be honest i'm glad I'm not the only one...

[knifearo]

ultimately when it comes to shipping and fandom space treatment of aspec characters i just don't accept "aro/ace people can still date/have sex" as an answer from nonaspecs. like yeah. mhm. okay. now i think we both know that you're not saying that out of real interest in the diversity of aspec experiences. so you can turn in your seventeen-page essay on why and how you plan to examine this character's aspec identity within the context of a romantic or sexual relationship complete with evidence from canon and peer reviews from multiple aspec people within the next week or i'm putting you in the pit from the edgar allen poe story

[leandra-kinard]

I can see your point that there's a clash of intention/topic here from your perspective. However, for me it was an opportunity to make a connected/related "counter" point (also not solely aimed at your original post but the added screenshot as well), because I also feel posts like yours could - under certain circumstances and through certain readings - be adding to a general harsher rift between the two factions than necessary. I'm definitely not saying that was your attention, but personally it's something that, let's say, slightly miffed me about this whole conversation a couple of times now, in a variety of posts.

I do understand why you think I should have made my own post on it, rather than adding to yours. But then again, I do enjoy a conversation and polite debate rather than just "ranting to the void". I believe it can be very beneficial to those engaging in such a debate in good faith and the ones reading it. But that's my POV. So I guess this is where we both clash in our preferences on how to add/debate or not debate/add to such posts, and that is fine.

Regarding the main points you made, you know how you meant it and what context you brought it up from - so in that regard it's fully valid - but some people may take it as "Ah look, this person, too, says the Buddies are homophobic (in general/often)". Tumblr reading comprehension and all, you know?

I am also definitely not saying you are erasing anyone's experience. I'm just saying, in general, this tendency to point to homophobia sometimes does that - albeit unintentionally, I assume. It is a bit of a slippery slope, imho, because sometimes the people expressing their wishes for a specific type of queer story (like what they imagine Buddie could have been like) are queer people who have made those very experiences or similar ones themselves - lesbians who fell on love with their best friend and finally gave up on comphet behavior, or people who believed themselves to be straight and realized they were bi after all (not dissimilar to Buck). I know you're not saying these people all come from a place of homophobia, but I personally see a risk of it being read that way. Of people falling into that mentioned trap of dismissing ANY pro-Buddie sentiment as homophobic /otherwise problematic.

So, regarding the last statement you quoted, this was meant more generally to the Bucktommy fandom and not per se you or your post. We are not having a private conversation here, we are doing it in front of an audience who will approach both what you and I are saying with highly individual biases and viewpoints.

There is no issue with the things you said per se, but imho the risk of certain takeaways that I have already seen expressed callously by other people, e.g. "Most of the Buddies are straight women who are deeply homophobic" or similar.

The whole Silken debacle is cringe AF, and embarrassing for the whole 911 fandom. And we really do not have to talk about some of the much more vile and toxic things that were said and done. I am in absolute and full agreement to call those instances out and, like you, am disappointed to not see enough of such calling out from the Buddie fans. That is highly regrettable and cowardly.

I also understand (through posts like yours even more deeply than I already did before, as a 44 year old queer woman who lived with a gay guy for many years and has known many gay men), that many especially young shippers have a sort of watered-down image of the "ideal gay relationship" that isn't reflective of reality. There's nothing wrong with having certain preferences when it comes to reading and writing fic, but there IS something wrong with painting things outside of that comfort zone as icky or bad (like all that shitty discourse on Tommy being predatory and similar stupid takes).

In years of shipping and engaging in fandom I've seen takes that were bordering on or veering into (unintentional) homophobia, or rather bigotry towards gay men in particular, because so much of it is based on a sexually/romantically inexperienced and predominantly female perspective. There's a difference between how lesbians and gay men live out their sexuality and love life - at least in tendency - and it's important to acknowledge that and, as you said, read up on gay culture if one isn't too familiar with some things. Or to simply acknowledge that many preferences and approaches are valid and good, and, as you said, here's not a limit to what kinds of queer representation should be present in popular media.

Anyway, I also appreciate that you replied calmly and in good faith. Just to make it clear again, I do not disagree with the things you said or with pointing out these particular examples. I just personally think it is important to also remember (and remind others - the "audience" of these debates) not to generalize as a takeaway from these very valid observations.

the more and more time i spend on tumblr and come across insane Buddie takes and behavior, the more and more i am convinced that the small, vocal, toxic subsection of shippers who don't know how to behave are, how shall i say it?

homophobic

they don't seem to actually like gay men. the situation with richard siken is an example of that. what they appear to like is their made-up version of what gay men are like and what they do. there's no concept of nuance or an actual understanding of queerness that informs their ship.

and i don't think you do need to understand it. sometimes you can just enjoy something without looking into it differently. but if you're going to be out on main talking about Buddie this and Buddie that, then you absolutely need to do the bare minimum and inform yourself on gay culture and gay issues so you don't, you know, go after a gay poet because you didn't like his tone.

sorry, there's a reason gay men of his demographic don't take shit. it's because they took so much shit that a large percentage of them died. the ones that survived don't owe you a tone when you act like an idiot.

the internet is free. wikipedia is free.

use a search engine and educate yourself, just a tiny little bit, and stop fetishizing while holding onto homophobic attitudes

[butterflysonnets]

absolutely insane that mike literally p a n i c k e d when will was like "well what about us?" because will wasn't even really making things gay he was honest to god just inquiring about the state of their estranged friendship and wondering why mike didn't make time to talk to him when they're supposed to be best friends but MIKE was the one having an aneurysm like "🏳️‍🌈⁉️ W H AT!!"

“WE'RE FRIENDS” “i know mike” “WE'RE!!! F R I E N D S!!” “right so why don't you call me — ” “I HAVE A GIRLFRIEND” “… that in no way answers my question"

[musical-chick-13]

This is the only thing I'm going to say about the election until it's over:

Anyone who did not vote for Harris or who attempted to dissuade people from voting for Harris, you are indirectly responsible for whatever shit Donald Trump does if he gets elected. That blood is primarily on his hands, yes. But it is also on yours. I hope you can live with that because I sure as hell wouldn't be able to.

[buddiesmutslut]

I know I've said it before, but I think this upcoming episode is going to be so interesting, even if we don't get Queer Eddie OR BT Bones (neither of which I'm fully convinced are going to happen on Thursday), & it's really for this one interesting phrase that Ryan & Oliver have both used.

They have both mentioned "rose-colored glasses" when it comes to Tommy & Shannon, and I would argue that they each have to reckon with these relationships before we can have any movement towards Buddie.

Eddie thinks that Shannon was the love of his life, that he failed her and has to carry that guilt with him for the rest of his life. I believe that Eddie placing Shannon on a pedestal is partially what's stopping him from realizing his queerness (along with the catholic guilt and repression, but a lot of that is also tied up in Shannon & their failed marriage.)

Buck's convinced that his big feelings last season were all about Tommy, and I'm not saying that some of them weren't, but I don't think it'd be too far of a stretch to say that he figures that he's in this relationship now and that obviously everything is fine now. He figured out this part of himself and he's dating a man and that means everything is Fine and he absolutely does not need to do any further digging or searching or learning, despite the fact that he and Tommy don't really seem to like each other all that much, nor do they seem to be all that compatible.

Buck has to reckon with the fact that realizing his bisexuality and immediately jumping into a relationship with a man that he wasn't even sure he wanted (his speech at the coffee date) might not be the solution to all the problems he's had, and Eddie has to deal with the fact that Shannon was not perfect, that what she did was not the same as what he did, that she's responsible for her own actions and that this romanticized vision he has clung to of their lives is not real and is not consistent with the actual relationship that they had.

There's a Divorce Arc this episode - which I'm begging does something with Eddie - and an uncomfortable truth learned about Tommy's past; it's not completely out of left field to assume that the Rose-Colored Glasses come off this episode.

And the fact that it's happening for them BOTH, at the same time? In the relationships that I think are the biggest obstacles to them realizing/accepting their feelings for each other???

I'm never fully convinced they're actually going to go there with these 2, but it will be SO interesting to see how this episode plays out, regardless.

[eldritchbeingisbored]

Are you saying you hate when people try to act like they're cannon or you hate the ships alltogether?

I think that it is unreasonable to say that you don't want gay ships made with characters that are canonically straight to be in fandom space. I don't know if that was your intention with this post, though. If that wasn't your intention, that's fine. I have no problem with people talking about ships they dislike (although if it's all they say, that can get a bit negative for my liking). I also have no problem with criticizing people for being a bit over zealous when it comes to any ship.

I don't think that you should take people shipping a gay ship as an insult to the straight ship that you prefer. Again, I don't want to put words in your mouth, so if that wasn't your intention, feel free to correct me.

People who love gay ships don't hate straight ships. I think is is important for the queer community to be able to ship characters because they don't get as much representation in media. Fandom is going to be a space where people will ship ships that are not cannon.

Next time you want to slander a non cannon gay ship, ask yourself what you would say if it was a straight ship. If you say that you would think of them differently because a character is unconfirmed or canonically straight, why do you consider those things to be so different?Queer people can still have internalized homophobia. I'm not saying that you do, but it is something to look out for in all of us.

If you don't like it, just scroll past and don't interact with it. I don't like reading gender swapped fics (where the charachter identifies as another gender, cis or trans), so I don't read them. I'm sorry if you are in a fandom where the majority of the content is that ship. I think you can filter it out (at least on ao3) if you want.

I hope this response was nuanced enough. I don't want to come off as portraying this as a black and white issue.

Also, this is from a bi guy. I'm not some random straight dude barging in on this commentary of queer fandom culture.

Sorry that this is essay length.

Thank you for reading. (:

Just a little reminder for you ppl who are delusional

Geto and gojo are not gay 💀

You guys can fight and argue all day but that won't change the fact that they aren't gay 😭

I just saw someone who is so bothered by the fact geto and gojo aren't gay like it's not that serious

Idk why some of you hate straight ships

Sorry but SatoSugu has to be one of the most annoying ships ever

I don't like SatoSugu and I will never like it the same goes for SaneGiyuu most of the people who ship one or the other has the most annoying delusional toxic fan base 😭 actually the two of them have the most toxic fan base 😰

And no I'm not homophobic just bc I don't ship SatoSugu and SaneGiyuu I just don't really like gay ships coming from a bisexual person I lean more towards the straight ones

But for some of you guys are out of control it's annoying idk why you guys can't just let two males be friends without you guys shipping them

[howtodisappearcompletelyand]

20/10 stars little guy

[exhuastedpigeon]

It's truly wild how different each person's fandom experience is. Sometimes I see someone talking about the shitty things they've seen in fandom and I'm like, yeah unfortunately fandom is a microcosm of society and unfortunately that means some people in every fandom are shitty. You can avoid those people by blocking them on sight.

Because yes, sometimes fandom can be a pretty terrible place where people's biases and prejudices are on full display and they're doing real harm, but sometimes fandom is a place where people simply have different, completely innocuous, opinions than yours and if you don't like them, you never have to see them again. Just block them baby, it's easy and it's free and it will make your life so much better.

[cheesybadgers]

Bringing this back, because I am seeing an awful lot of (over) confidently stated assertions of fact about Eddie's sexuality arc in the tags when we literally don't know where his storyline is going yet??? 😂 We have no idea how much he's consciously aware of or how he will identify or what a lot of his childhood was like beyond the small snippets we've been given in the show and it's strange to me that people are trying to shut down speculation just because it differs from their own personal theories/headcanons.

For whatever reason, Tim Minear has an established pattern of the way he writes gay men who have had previous relationships/marriages with women (Michael, Carlos, and hell even Tommy now Abby being his ex is canon). To the point where I actually find it a bit irritating he keeps using female characters like this over and over again. As if their only purpose is to help the male characters come to terms with their queerness (and in Abby's case, he retconned Tommy Kinard into her storyline when originally, there was no suggestion in season 1 her ex broke up with her because he was gay...and despite what Tim Minear might have said, I suspect Iris being Carlos' wife in Lone Star was retconned as well because there was no mention of it in season 1 when Carlos and Michelle were looking for and constantly talking about Iris).

Why is it so inconceivable that Eddie's arc might follow a similar writing pattern when Tim Minear is still at the helm, especially when it was pretty obvious the whole Tommy/Abby revelation and Josh's related speech were used as a parallel to Eddie? I'm not saying it definitely will follow this pattern, because obviously I don't know. But neither does anyone else in the fandom lol.

I have no idea if we'll get anything along these lines, but flashbacks to Eddie's childhood could do so much heavy lifting on the 'show rather than tell' front if we're going for a queer awakening here. We've had flashbacks to most of the main characters' childhoods now, but Eddie Begins only went as far back as when Shannon was giving birth to Chris and then moved forward to cover their marriage problems. We've heard bits and pieces from earlier than that via conversations between Eddie and his family, but we've not actually seen any of it.

I also feel like Eddie needs to go to El Paso, not just to get Chris back, but to confront his parents and his past head-on.

Not saying either of these things will happen of course lol, but if I had a wish-list, these would be near the top of it.

[homoqueerjewhobbit]

Because he's the Tumblr sexyman du jour, and because sometimes queer history seems very far away, I'd like to make a quick point about Benoit Blanc. Let's assume that he's approximately the same age as Daniel Craig. DC, and therefore BB, were born in 1968, which means they were 20 in 1988, which means Benoit Blanc was coming of age as a gay man at the absolute height of the AIDS Epidemic.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk or whatever.

[lumisails]

Black Sails really changes everything, especially if you're a pirate fan. Which may sound obvious but what I mean is... I've always loved Pirates of The Caribbean so fucking much, some of my favorite movies of all time. And then today I... Was looking at this Jack Sparrow figure I have and it... Dawned on me. The whole thing about pirates being stories. Being portrayed as a stereotype of the actual people who lived through that era, people who were probably closer to what we see in Black Sails than what we see in PoTC... And yet, we grow up with these stories. "Stories they tell their children". Treasure Island is a children's book. Most of the stories that feature pirates are meant to be told to children. It's just...Insane how now, at 32, I'm presented with something that changed my entire view on something that has been with me ever since I was a kid. I can't even remember when I started going crazy about pirates?? It may have been bc of PoTC when I was like 11. But I know that I have watched Muppet's Treasure Island at a younger age and many of the things I watched growing up featured pirates in some episodes like Pokémon, Powerpuff Girls, Spongebob. Freaking Peter Pan and all of its adaptations.

And the same could be said to other types of figures that we mostly know stereotypes of. Fe, I am a Norse Pagan and I research and learn a lot about the ancient Norse people and they are very different from the stereotypical image we have of Vikings. And these are the examples I can think of rn because they are the ones that are most present in my life, but I'm pretty sure it goes beyond pirates and vikings.

And then, you can go beyond historical stuff. What about the way we see people who are not from the same culture as ours? Especially poc cultures. All we know are stories and said stories are often painted in a bad light. Sure, these people can advocate for themselves, but not everyone will do their research and try to learn what's beyond the stories.

This post definitely went way farther than where I first intended when I started it out lol. But I hope it all makes sense and that I don't sound completely insane. But at the end of the day, Black Sails changes the way you view the world itself.

[guidingthulite]

i finished yokai gakuen