#A Spy in Isengard

[oldschoolfrp]

Saruman the White ponders his palantír. "You are the trusted apprentice to one of the greatest Wizards in all Middle-earth" in A Spy in Isengard (Angus McBride cover art for Middle-earth Quest gamebook #1 by Terry K Amthor, Iron Crown Enterprises, 1988). McBride has been memed more than once.

[coffeetime88]

Spotted at my local library

[wizardarchives]

Saruman by Angus McBride

Illustration of Saruman from Lord of the Rings gazing into the Palantir. Mostly recognized now from the pondering the orb meme.

Cover for A Spy in Isengard (Middle-Earth Quest) by Terry K. Amthor (1988)

Used for the the roleplaying game supplement Angus McBride's Characters of Middle-Earth by Angus McBride and Jessica M Ney (1990).

Also used in the Middle-earth supplement Valar & Maiar: The Immortal Powers (1993)

Later reused for the Saruman card in the Middle-Earth: The Wizards TCG (1995)

[its-to-the-death]

Fictional Weapon War Round 3

Orb (Pondering My Orb meme)

First posted to Twitter in October 2021 and the rest is history

The image is from a gamebook called Middle-Earth Quest: A Spy In Isengard and the artist is Angus McBride

Kendal (Aurora webcomic)

Forged after Vash defeated the storm god, Tynan, by using the metal to replace his arm and the blue crystal to replace his eye

Was then passed on to a person by the name of Kendal

Mod comment:

These have both been very heavy hitters up until now but only one can move on

[warrioreowynofrohan]

LOTR Newsletter - September 20

The first of our days using in-universe time!

But I’m going to hop back a couple of days of in-universe time to recap some events.

Gandalf is rescued from Isengard by Gwaihir on the night of September 18th-19th. But there's a very interesting version of this in "The Hunt for the Ring" in Unfinished Tales that gives us a lot more insight on a potential characterization of Saruman.

In Version C, on the other hand, the Black Riders arrived at the Gate of Isengard while Gandalf was still a prisoner in the tower. In this account, Saruman, in fear and despair, and perceiving the full horror of service to Mordor, resolved suddenly to yield to Gandalf, and to beg for his pardon and help. Temporizing at the Gate, he admitted that he had Gandalf within, and said that he would go and try to discover what he knew; if that were unavailing, he would deliver Gandalf up to them. Then Saruman hastened to the summit of Orthanc – and found Gandalf gone. Away south against the setting moon he saw a great Eagle flying towards Edoras. Now Saruman’s case was worse. If Gandalf had escaped there was still a real chance that Sauron would not get the Ring, and would be defeated. In his heart Saruman recognized the great power and the strange ‘good fortune’ that went with Gandalf. But now he was left alone to deal with the Nine. His mood changed, and his pride reasserted itself in anger at Gandalf’s escape from impenetrable Isengard, and in a fury of jealousy. He went back to the Gate, and he lied, saying that he had made Gandalf confess. He did not admit that this was his own knowledge, not being aware of how much Sauron knew of his mind and heart. [Footnote: Earlier in this version it is said that Sauron had at this time, by means of the palantíri, at last begun to daunt Saruman, and could in any case often read his thought even when he withheld information. Thus Sauron was aware that Saruman had some guess at the place where the Ring was; and Saruman actually revealed that he had got as his prisoner Gandalf, who knew the most.] “I will report this myself to the Lord of Barad-dûr,” he said loftily, “to whom I speak from afar on great matters that concern us. But all that you need to know on the mission that he has given you is where “the Shire” lies. That, says Mithrandir, is northwest from here some six hundred miles, on the borders of the seaward Elvish country.” To his pleasure Saruman saw that even the Witch-king did not relish that. “You must cross Isen by the Fords, and then rounding the Mountains’ end make for Tharbad upon Greyflood. Go with speed, and I will report to your Master that you have done so.” This skillful speech convinced even the Witch-king for the moment that Saruman was a faithful ally, high in Sauron’s confidence. At once the Riders left the Gate and rode in haste to the Fords of Isen. Behind them Saruman sent out wolves and Orcs in vain pursuit of Gandalf; but in this he had other purposes also, to impress his power upon the Nazgûl, perhaps also to prevent them from lingering near, and in his anger he wished to do some injury to Rohan, and to increase the fear of him which his agent Wormtongue was building up in Théoden’s heart. Wormtongue had been in Isengard not long since, and was then on his way back to Edoras; among the pursuers were some bringing messages to him. When he was rid of the Riders Saruman retired to Orthanc, and sat in earnest and dreadful thought. It seems that he resolved still to temporize, and still to hope to get the Ring for himself. He thought that the direction of the Riders to the Shire might hinder them rather than help them, for he knew of the guard of the Rangers, and he believed also (knowing of the oracular dream-words and Boromir’s mission) that the Ring had gone and was already on its way to Rivendell. At once he marshalled and sent out into Eriador all the spies, spy-birds, and agents that he could muster.

This is intriguing on several levels. Firstly, that Saruman actually considered changing his mind and begging Gandalf for help after having kept his as prisoner for over two months. I feel like this gets at something important about Tolkien's writings. Many of his evil characters are not completely devoid of good impulses; but those are only impulses, not convictions, and when any barrier or temptation comes up (often, as in this case, related to pride), they don't follow up on them. It's choices, not impulses, that define them.

Secondly, the fact that the power of Saruman's voice actually is - or was, before the events of The Two Towers - enough to con the Lord of the Nazgul, and to convince him (temporarily) that Saruman is a loyal and prominent ally, and that he got the Shire's location out of Gandalf (rather than already knowing it himself). And also that he's still got Gandalf captive.

Thirdly, the fact that Saruman's already sending wolves and orcs into Rohan on raids. It really gives a sense of how stressful the several months before The Two Towers would have been to Éomer and Éowyn (and Théodred) - they know perfectly well that Saruman's a danger, but they can't get Théoden to agree to do anything about it.

And the last line confirms what is only suggested in the books (but outright stated in the movies): that the flocks of crows that fly over the company in Eregion are indeed spies of Saruman.

On September 19th Gandalf comes to Edoras, and Théoden refuses him admittance on the advice of Wormtongue; on September 20th Théoden tells him "Take any horse, only be gone ere tomorrow is old!", and refuses to listen to his warnings about Saruman.

So, by September 20th, when Frodo's goods are sent off to Crickhollow, the Ringwraiths already know where the Shire is, and are on their way there. The clock is ticking...

[pastoralbear]

On the one hand, y'all speak for yourselves with regard to "no one on this website fucks".

On the other hand, I immediately knew it was the orb from "A Spy in Isengard".

On the other other hand, so did my spouse, which might explain my first point.

[rat-detector]

TREAT OR TRICK 🐀

You get A Spy In Isengard

[calekinnieplus]

Hallo. I'm literally gonna pass out the moment I close my eyes, but I can't miss this update. I've read for 3 hours (I was out most of the day, when all I wanted to do was read, rip) and I reached chapter 738. A more meaningful accomplishment is the fact that I finished volume 3!! Officially started reading volume 4!! We're moving FORWARD AYEEEEE

What's there to say today? A lot. I wanna talk in detail about it all, honest. But I'll just skim today, I think. As I said, very sleepy (when am I not, when making these updates. It's like a requirement for me to do these while sleepy lol).

So! Klein engaged in a fight involving demigods! That's right, not just A demigod, but Multiple demigods. Reinette, Shanks, Suah, that crazy angel, Jahn Kottman, Azik and the added bonus of Admiral Blood Senor. Of course, each individual appeared at different times, but the fact that Klein was capable of creating such chaos is undoubtedly AMAZING. HOW did he successfully do that?? I mean, I know how, but HOW??

The Orange Light personally extended an olive branch to Klein and explained some stuff about the gray fog. Useful

Klein fulfilled his promises to bury the Loen soldier and to carry on the dead Nightmare Nighthawk's last wish. He's still so Kind.

Gehrman Sparrow gained an infamous reputation. He's now on the level of pirate admirals, comparable to the Four Kings of the Sea. Arguably, could be the 5th. His adventures left their mark on those around him and it warms my heart to see people remember him for his good deeds.

We have the entrance of Dwayne Dantès! And apparently, he's a DILF. Well done, Klein! /lh

The evil spirit found in the room where Alista did the Sequence 0 ritual is gonna be a huge headache in the future, I can feel it. I wonder where it went off to...

Klein actually got a hug!! Albeit, a greeting hug, but still! A win is a win! Detective Isengard, you have my heart. Please don't die :>

Concerning that, it was lovely to see Sherlock Moriarty reconnect with his companions. I missed you, my boy!! Ian, Sharron, Isengard, love 'em all <33

Speaking of Sharron, she has my respect for dealing with Klein’s ridiculous bullshit. It's not Klein’s fault his fate seems to put him through the most ridiculous adventures, but Sharron going "ok" after Klein dropped crazy thing after crazy thing was the funniest shit y'all. Slay.

Mmmmmm the ideas concerning the theft of the Antigonus notebook are difficult af, but I trust in Klein’s plans. After all, he got out of that demigod royale battle with incredibly few injuries. I wonder who the Nighthawk spy will be 👀👀👀 is it perhaps 👀 a certain poet? 👀👀👀

(I know he'll join the Tarot Club eventually, because Spoilers yay. But I wonder how that'll go down)

"Skim," I said. Uh-huh.

Anyway, considering that I've only read for 3 hours today, quite a lot of stuff happened and I'm failing to recall them all. I want to read what's next so bad, but I have stuff to do tomorrow as well, so :(( I'll see how it goes

Praise the Fool!

[hayden-in-a-cheguevara-shirt]

ok esse é um clássico favorito então resolvi traduzir pq sou uma filha da puta inútil

[post]:

[reblogs]:

user 1:

isso parece uma camisinha e o fato de todo mundo nos comentários estar dizendo "o orbe" prova que ninguém nesse site transa

user 2:

que tipo de camisinhas com cara de bolas saltitantes são essas que você tá usando

user 3:

o fato de alguém pensar que parece uma camisinha é prova de que ninguém nesse site transa

user 4:

ok pessoal LITERALMENTE tiraram isso da imagem "mago ponderando seu orbe"

é um orbe.

user 4:

ok sem querer bater em cachorro morto mas eu encontrei a imagem ORIGINAL e é a arte da capa de um ttrpg temático de senhor dos anéis.

então

user 5:

Não não é essa é de 1993 seu poser do caralho, é de A SPY IN ISENGARD publicado em 1988, eu tô DOENTE e CANSADO de vocês sempre ERRANDO

user 6:

5 adições de reblog depois e esse post ainda é melhor resumido por "ninguém nesse site transa"

[aemiron-main]

Angus McBride also did some awesome LOTR/The Hobbit/Tolkien in general art!

He’s actually the guy responsible for the art from the “wizard pondering his orb” meme, which is actually from the cover of Middle Earth Quest: A Spy In Isengard:

art by Angus McBride, an illustrator who did historic and fantasy work in and around the 1960s

[assassinbait]

Y'all, I have in my possession an original orb. Had this for years and knew this meme was familiar somehow. It's my boyfriend's mother's og copy she let us borrow or gave I dunno the circumstances, we got it like 10 years ago. You can see where Fade chewed the corners when she was a puppy

[its-to-the-death]

Fictional Weapon War Round 4

Portal Gun (Portal)

Can create two portals so anything can move between them

Surfaces can be treated with moon rocks or space debris to more compatible with the portals

Can pick up and manipulate objects directly in front of it.

Orb (Pondering My Orb meme)

First posted to Twitter in October 2021 and the rest is history

The image is from a gamebook called Middle-Earth Quest: A Spy In Isengard and the artist is Angus McBride

[mykofanesvlepy]

39. "Pondering better world" Angus Mcbride, cover of Middle-Earth Quest: A Spy In Isengard

[nebmia]

Believe it or not, that kid is actually you!

Because this image actually comes from the roleplaying gamebook "Middle-Earth Quest: A Spy In Isengard" where you play as an apprentice to saruman and investigate why the fuck he is pondering his orb so much.

And that's the thing that gets *me* about this meme. I've never seen anyone mention that the orb pondering wizard is saruman THE iconic orb ponderer until I happened across the image on tolkien wiki.

The one thing that gets me about this meme is that I've never seen anyone mention this kid creeping in the background:

Like, "Get the fuck outta here, Pedrick! Can't you see I'm pondering?"

[thiswaycomessomethingwicked]

The part of griomer that makes me most insane is the period we don’t see… when eomer must suspect or essentially know that grima is working for Saruman but has no proof. Thoughts on this?

I have returned from the haunted house. Time for more Grima asks 🐍 🐍 💜

Oh man!! It is a wild and feral making time for everyone, those two to three years.

As usual, I wrote an essay in response. Because what is brevity when I have a free soap box upon which to stand? I go on about the books for a bit then go into Swimming Through Fire/Shit I Think For Reasons

tl;dr: It’d be two to three emotionally intense years where Eomer wouldn’t really look at what he’s feeling or why he might be feeling it and would instead do a lot of reacting rather than responding. 

There would be a lot of circling around each other with Grima catching on to Eomer’s awareness of his treason pretty early on. They’re both sly and cunning people, in their own way, so it’d be viper versus viper. A dangerous liaison game for a few years. Beneath it, of course, would run many a strange undercurrent. 

Eomer and Grima - a tale of two idiots being idiots while the world is falling down around them. One of them tries to fix it, the other just adds more oil to the grease fire that is the third age. 

-- 

Some nattering on about the books: 

In canon for the book it’s a bit unclear exactly what Eomer knows when it comes to Grima. When he meets up with Aragorn et al out in the wilds of the plains, he does refer to Some People Speaking Craven Councils to the King, which we can infer to be Grima. Eomer also tells Aragorn that he doesn’t think all of Saruman’s friends reside in Isengard - a nicely veiled way of saying he thinks there’s a spy in the court and that spy is close to the king. But he is never explicit, and we are never really given a deep glimpse into what Eomer knows/suspects when it comes to Grima. (Which is a lovely nod to Eomer’s political acuity, something that often gets overlooked/forgotten in fandom.)

In addition, it is important to remember that Grima was a trusted member of the king’s household and council and had been for many years. There are bits in TTT where rando soldiers are like “kinda wish Grima was here. That dude always had like five plans up his sleeves. He had back up plans for his back up plans”. Even Theoden talks about how much he missed having Grima as his advisor.

Which speaks to how shocking it must have been for a lot of people! And how part of every-day life Grima was and how present and trusted he was. People might not have liked him (canonically unclear if people did or not, pre-treason), but they certainly respected his skills and relied upon him. It must have been absolute whiplash for a lot of people when it was exposed!

Now, the bit where Eomer threatened Grima and ends up under house arrest (compounded by the fact that he let Aragorn et al wander the land without bringing them to the king, which goes against ““Theoden’s”” orders) was done off screen, so we don’t see it. However, based on the conversation between Gandalf and Eomer when Grima’s about to be booted out, it’s very clear their altercation was about Grima paying undue attention to Eowyn, rather than anything to do with Saruman.

What exactly the undue attention was, we don’t really know because no one appears to have bothered to ask Eowyn her opinion on basically anything and Eomer doesn’t give us much beyond “he was spooking on my sister!!” However, given Eomer’s hair thin trigger when it comes to threatening people (see: the entire Gimli bit) who knows - Grima could have just said “you look very nice today my lady” and Eomer is like “LEAVE MY SISTER ALONE. IM GOING TO KILL YOU” and Grima is like “….Eomer…you are aware that threatening someone’s life in the king’s hall is against the law right?” To which Eomer is just like “TOO LATE.”

This is the man who almost started an International Incident after talking to Gimli for 0.5 seconds. Bless both of them.

All of this is to say, in book canon we know Eomer had suspicions SOMEONE WHOSE NAME RHYMES WITH SHRIMA might be working for Saruman, but no proof. And any and all details of the who/what/where/when/why of Eomer’s suspicions about our favourite Wyrm are entirely unknown.  

Like, when Gandalf visited in summer of 3018 to warn Theoden of Isengard, Eomer just said that Gandalf alerted them to a potential war with Saruman, who previously Rohan considered an ally, and Theoden didn’t listen then Gandalf fucked off with Shadowfax, the king’s favourite horse. Now Theoden is pissed, so don’t say Gandalf’s name in his presence. There’s no mention that Gandalf was like “and also, Grima is working for Saruman” when he visited.

So any suspicions Eomer may have had, it’s unclear if they were ever substantiated before the Big Reveal in TTT.

Anyway, enough with the books. Obviously in the movies Eomer is aware of the treason, he just can’t prove it.

-

NOW THAT THAT IS OUT OF THE WAY: Swimming Through Fire

I’ve spoken a bit before about how I think they would have engaged with each other for much of their knowing one another - mostly, neither paid each other much mind until the last five to seven years before the events of LOTR. 

This is because Eomer was young and Grima would have been busy climbing the greasy pole. They come into each other’s orbits in a meaningful way when Eomer fully steps into his role as Third Marshal, and Grima becomes more prominent in the court as advisor/law speaker/whatever Unferthian role it is he plays. 

Given that Eomer is twenty-seven when LOTR takes place, I can see him stepping into Third Marshal role formally when he hits twenty/twenty-one/twenty-two. Something in there. We don’t know when Rohan’s Of Age is for men to properly take over their father’s former positions. So, Eomer has to take his job seriously as a marshal of the mark starting five to seven years before the series, and that’s when Grima’s existence would start meaning something to him beyond “some dude who works for my uncle”. 

In Swimming Through Fire, they’ve always had a bit of a competitive/quarrelish relationship. But it’s not vicious, the way it becomes for a bit there from circa 3016/17 through to 3019. Indeed, we know Eomer makes quite a few references to that standing backgammon/tabula competition they have wherein they apparently have been keeping logs of who wins each game and are trying to outdo each other. 

Eomer might not have wholly enjoyed Grima’s company - even though they’ve got their Game Nights that happen, I think it takes Eomer a long time to figure out how to maneuver around Grima. Like...he’s basically finally figuring it out in the events of Swimming Through Fire. 

Grima just spent three years viewing everyone as pawns as he basically just lived in a state of near constant disassociation which, as we all know, does wonders for a person. Very healthy. 

They both have this weird, semi-fixated UGH YOU’RE ANNOYING-hate(?)-hard-on for each other (though they’re not at all aware of this). The existence of this hard-on-fixation-whatever, is partially due to the fact that they might not necessarily enjoy each other’s company, but they do have respect for one another in terms of their capabilities and are aware that the other is smart and, well, a worthy opponent. in the weird little games of court (though Eomer would say he’s not willingly part of these games. Grima’s just made him part of them). 

Eomer: I would like to remove myself from this narrative. 

Grima: Too late, you’re a pawn on my scheming. Time to play real life chess, bitch. 

Because of this weird quasi-hate-hard-on-fixation Eomer twigs onto the treason pretty swiftly. I’m not sure Eomer knows what he feels about it aside from the expected anger, frustration, a lot of “how fucking dare you” and “I hate you So much” etc. 

But there is something beneath it, and it’s hurt. Plain and simple hurt. Because while in Swimming Through Fire universe, Grima’s treason isn’t strictly speaking personal, it’s still a betrayal. It still wounds those who once trusted him. 

Eomer is very much, ‘We might have always been at each other’s throats or trying to smash each other’s fingers with backgammon pieces, but you were one of us. I always thought you were on our side, at the end of the day. We could rely on you and trust you.’ 

So, because Eomer deals with things in a very Mature Adult Manner, this doesn’t at all lead to all kinds of weird blow-outs between them that NO ONE UNDERSTANDS because Eomer has no proof of the treason and so can’t tell anyone other than like Eowyn. But he’s all weird older, protective, overbearing brother with her so I doubt he keeps her much in the loop. It’s the whole Dead Dad Macho-Man of the Family bullshit. 

Eowyn: have you thought about not leaning into the intense Rohirric machismo for ten minutes? 

Eomer: ??? why would I do that ??? 

Grima: please gods someone tell him he can stop being The Man for a hot minute.

That said, Eowyn is canny so I wouldn’t be shocked if she figured it out on her own. Or at least had some heavy suspicions. 

(An aside: I think there’s limited textual support in the books of E^2 having had a close sibling relationship, which is something fandom doesn’t really engage with. Ditto for the Faramir-side of the Faramir and Boromir deal. Though I know it’s a little different in the movies) 

So yeah - those two to three years would be emotionally very intense ones where I think Eomer wouldn’t really look at what he’s feeling or why he might be feeling it and instead does a lot of reacting rather than responding. 

As noted above, Grima’s just living a great out-of-body-experience for most of it, so he has zero (0) emotions and that won’t backfire for him at all. 

There would be a lot of circling around each other. I think Grima would catch on that Eomer knows about his treason pretty quickly. Their both sly and cunning people, in their own way. So it’d be this interesting viper against viper game for a few years. But beneath it, of course, the world’s whackiest undercurrent of ???? and lust??? and more ????? and “fuck i hate that you’re smart” followed by competency-boner???? then ????

Eomer and Grima - a tale of two idiots being idiots while the world is falling down around them. One of them tries to fix it, the other just adds more oil to the grease fire that is the third age. 

🐍 🐍 Thank you again for asking!! I love our weird snake boys!!

[roccondil]

You know, it just struck me as interesting, but while the Ring gets all the credit for taking down its bearers directly (see: Isildur, Gollum, almost Frodo) as well as some folks by proximity (Boromir), there was one more whom it had ensnared and brought low just by existing: Saruman.

Now granted, Saruman was being manipulated and then mastered by Sauron via palantir. But even so Saruman still had a ton of free will left to him, and that free will ended up being obsessed with obtaining the Ring. This became even more Important to him once he learned that the Ring had reappeared and was apparently easily obtainable.

And so, had he not sent the Uruk detachment to waylay the Fellowship and steal the Hobbits, Merry and Pippin would not have been brought to Rohan. They would not have (inadvertently) been freed by the Captain who Saruman’s spy had exiled, only to escape into Fangorn Forest and meet Treebeard. The hobbits would not have been anywhere near able to convince the Ents to fight back against Isengard.

Basically, Saruman’s greed ended up setting in motion a chain of events that caused his own downfall, and the Ring had merely to exist and make itself relevant again to trigger that series of events.