#*one of the reasons i ship them i mean. because that's just so tragic and original? | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

adripakoffee · 1 month ago

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Thinking about Curly too because you mfs give him too much leeway!!! FUCK CURLY MAN!!

So like, obviously, what happened to him was tragic but he could've prevented the events of the game so easily. Firstly, he's the one who got Jimmy on the ship. Jimmy's not supposed to be there, he literally isn't even a freighter pilot. It's heavily implied the reason Jimmy is on the ship is that Curly was helping him run from the law.

This exhibits Curly's biggest problem in the game. He's Jimmy's friend first and his boss second. He puts Jimmy ahead of everything, so despite his past history of what we can presume to be violence, he puts him on a small ship with other people who are now vulnerable to his abuse. And he knows, he's aware that there's a chance these people could be victimized by Jimmy and says and does nothing. This next part is my personal theory, but I think he knew Daisuke was coming with them before he invited Jimmy, he just didn't say anything.

Curly's second big sin is what he does to Anya. He finds out what Jimmy's been doing to her and he says he'll do something, anything. But he doesn't. I said it earlier, but I think Anya thought that Curly would have Jim arrested on landing, but even then, there's some short term things he could've done. Here's a list actually because oh my god, there's so much he could have done.

Set up a bed for Anya in medical. Y'know, a door with an actual lock.

Put Jimmy in a cryopod as a holding cell.

Fire Jimmy, which seemingly wouldn't do much until you remember you need the captain to do half the shit on the ship.

Lockdown Jimmy, essentially lock down anything Jimmy could use as a weapon. The only two weapons on the ship are guarded by codes, but anyone could figure them out in a couple days. this goes hand in hand with the last one.

Literally just fucking kill him.

And before someone says "Oh, if Curly did anything, Jimmy would've acted out, he would've turned violent anyway." There are four other crew members and one Jimmy. If Jimmy had turned violent so early on, I fully believe Daisuke could've just bodied him. It wouldn't be that hard to pacify him if, say, he was ganged up on by three men.

The problem at the end of the day is that Curly is Curly, Jimmy's best friend before he's Captain Curly of the Tulpar. He cares more about Jimmy than the well-being of the people he's supposed to care about. He doesn't take Jimmy seriously when he is outwardly awful and pretty much straight up tells Curly he's gonna crash the ship. Like Curly does nothing because he doesn't think of Jimmy as a bad person. He can't even comprehend it until he's in a position where he's completely at Jimmy's mercy.

Now there's a couple of interpretations on the metaphor of what Curly's disability means and I'm gonna yap about at least 2, idk I'm just ranting.

The first one is that Curly is now Anya, or rather in her position. He's got no agency over his own body, he literally can't move, and he's forced to trust Jimmy with his life. He's in constant pain, he wants to die, and he can't. Anya cannot stand giving Curly his medicine so she lets Jimmy do it. She's putting a vulnerable person at Jimmy's mercy, just like Curly did, except this time he's on the receiving end. And whenever it's just Curly and Jimmy alone in the med bay, Jim is just beating the shit out of this guy for no reason. Like there is no need to be doing all that, but Jimmy is a violent person, and Curly just ignored it for too long.

The second interpretation that I also really like it that Curly is Anya's baby. Jimmy has done something heinous and it's left Anya caring for someone she can't feasibly support. Her ability to keep Curly alive for so long is a testament to how resilient and determined she is, but at the end of the day she can't take it. It's not just the fact that she has to care for Curly that drives her to take her life, it was a lot of things, but the stress of dealing with Curly was definitely part of that.

This next part isn't Curly's fault, it's Pony Express' but if he survives long enough to be found, he no longer has a future. He can't be a pilot anymore, he'll more than likely be forced to take responsibility for the deaths of the crew, the rehab process will take years and probably hundreds of thousands of dollars. He's cooked. This leans into the him becoming Anya thing, he's been put in a position where he can't work but is forced to deal with a heavy financial burden. The difference is, this is his own fault.

He could've prevented all of this if he hadn't ignored all the red flags. In the dead pixel scene he says the one pixel doesn't hinder his enjoyment of the whole image, he can ignore it. That's what he did. When he looks a the bigger picture or the grand scheme of things he can ignore a few dead pixels. The way he sees it, he's given Jimmy a whole year to pull himself out of a "struggle" so when he gets back to Earth things will be okay again. In his eyes, Jimmy's bound to have a few slip-ups and unfortunately, what he did to Anya was one of them. So that's just a pixel he can ignore.

LONG STORY SHORT, CURLY IS AN ENABLER AND LITERALLY THE ONLY WAY HE WAS GONNA LEARN WAS IF HE BECAME A VICTIM TOO!!!!

Apologies if any of this is worded weird, it's just brain vomit.

I also did an Anya rant

#mouthwashing #mouthwashing anya #mouthwashing curly #mouthwashing jimmy #jimmy live execution when #rant post #yapping #game rants #mouthwashing daisuke #mouthwashing spoilers #tbh curly was probably just in love with jim #they both suck

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yellowocaballero · 4 months ago

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i very much enjoy the extremely scientific analysis of the naruto verse in which there are three genders, aka naruto, sasuke, and Woman.

AM I WRONG? AM I WRONG? pulls down projection screen and plays powerpoint

Obviously let's give room for nuance. A ton of Naruto characters don't fall into these gender norms. This does predominantly apply to the rampant proliferation of the three-person dynamics that were assigned by the government and dictate your entire life. And, like, society. It does not end. Gender isn't a biological factor in Naruto, it's a social dynamic constructed entirely by your homoerotic tension with other men. And there are so many.

Madara (S), Hashirama (N), Mito (W). Izuna (N) and Tobirama (S) - tragically, Izuna died before women could be invented. Sarutobi (N), Danzo (S, horrifically) - see above about women not being invented yet. Jiraiya (N), Orochimaru (S), Tsunade (W). Yahiko (N), Nagato (S), Konan (W). Obito (N), Kakashi (S), Rin (W). Shisui (N), Itachi (S), that little deeply unimportant girlfriend (W). Um, fucking, Naruto (N), Sasuke (S), Sakura (W). Even - even, fuckin, Rock Lee (N), Neiji (S), Tenten (W).

And what do they all have in common????

(OT3. They're all OT3s. Is what I'm saying).

There is some room for alternative gender expressions here, like being butch or femme. Naruto gender expressions: teacher, otouto, woman who you can't even tell is woman gendered because she has no backstory but you just have to kinda assume that she has a polycule-based backstory where she was Woman Gender. I feel almost as if 2/3rds of the Rookie 9 are liberated from this. InoShikaCho just doesn't fit (their chaotic cousin energy is just too strong and Ino's too much of a lesbian). Hinata's too busy being defined entirely by a different throuple's N to have codependent dynamics with her own N and S (and I'm hesitant to even say that, since I actually don't know if Kiba and Shino have a codependent rivalry - do they?).

I get, like, the reason for all of this. Curse of Hatred. Cycles. N and S Genders being sourced from demigods or something. Narrative parallelism. Sympathy points. It's not the bad guy's fault he's evil, his N and W gendered counterparts died :(. But an extremely strange side-effect of this is that all of the male characters are, like, Just Naruto or Just Sasuke. But the vast majority of the female characters are - like, completely defined by the men in their lives - but also they are more likely to be a unique person. Mito, Sakura, and Rin have actually nothing in common. Writing so sexist it creates more interesting characters?!?!

Unironically, this is why I'm always saying that Sasunaru is the ship of all time, nothing will ever top it, you will NEVER do it like Sasunaru, etc. Every important relationship in the series is meant to evoke Sasunaru. (Notably, none of the explicitly romantic ones. But we're beyond such paltry understandings of the most iconic pairing of all time as fundamentally based in romance. We're operating on a higher level than that). This unbroken chain of toxic yaoi has culminated at the end point of Sasunaru, and it exists to parallel Sasunaru and define their relationship by the dysfunction of generations of tragedy. That's why Naruto has to consciously break the cycle and free them from the generational hate - it was the only way to save Sasuke. This is also why I'm always saying that Sasunaru is the point of Naruto, and that the entirety of Naruto is about Sasunaru. Come back to me when your work has invented new genders in the all-encompassing pursuit of toxic yaoi.

This also means that the only truly gender non-conforming individuals in Naruto are its mightiest heterosexuals: Minato (W) and Kushina (N). Truly insane. The N/S/W configuration is the societal norm, it's bonkers to make a major good-aligned male character a wifeguy. By Naruto standards Minato and Kushina are the only queer couple.

#naruto #sasunaru #happy yaoi day everyone #my asks #i do have more serious thoughts about themes in fiction and how the best things ive consumed have extremely tight themes #to the point where the entire work is about 1 thing.#ya know like. sasunaru is to naruto what ecosystems are to dungeon meshi #its why dm is good. anyway thats more complicated thoughts not for joke sasunaru post #fwiw my MENTAL naruto is inosaku my IDEAL naruto is team7ot3. i dont explain my genius often.

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generalsdiary · 7 months ago

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gays are so tragic.

any gay ship, any queer ship in any form of video game, anime, tv show, or movie where they're censored or made by homophobic ppl is so tragic.

the way they yearn to be together, which is shown by actors/voice actors/animators/writers. and, of course, we all grasp at the tiniest crumble, and the fanbases are the ones that recognize them and keep them alive- that is where the couple escapes the constraints, restrictions, and homophobia.

ex. in gi they said they will explore more same-sex couples by labeling them in game as 'best friends'. (kavetham, cynari, etc.)

so, of course, we, fanfic writers, write them as tragic, or even cursed yaoi, and yearning and all the heart-wrenching pieces because there's pain in their existence. they are our escape and something we relate to but we also offer them an escape, making them alive with our funny words and silly au's.

also some honorable mentions of good depictions of queer couples; good omens, shadowhunters (malec), our flag means death, the originals (freelin). (feel free to add more)

also, only pure hatred and disgust at the queerbaiting seen in media (I'm looking at you supernatural). furthermore, gender identities in media are a whole different issue and topic; where is the recognition overall, especially in video games, for enby's and similar?

honorable mention to bg3 for having great body options (trans friendly) and more gender options than the usual f/m.

there's also tragedy in queer characters, who fandoms depict and destroy by ignoring their sexuality, ex. yelena from marvel's black widow who is confirmed asexual. (which pains me as an aroace individual)

thus we write them as tragic and pained because, just like us, they also have to be hidden or censored, many queer ppl cannot come out due to so many varying reasons. sadly, we aren't safe everywhere and have to be careful. media is a nice escape, so I guess we can relate to our sad gays who are so much more like us than we thought at first hand.

dear writers, artists, and creators keep creating art and keep giving them life. we give them air to breathe and the hope that they give us. that is how this relationship with our favorite fictional characters transcends all bounds, we keep each other alive and comfort each other.

this rant was inspired by my mutual commenting on how homosexual my love confessing fic is (here if you're interested).

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thechekhov · 10 months ago

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Dungeon Meshi Quick Reacts: CH45

Slumber party!

Fair, but consider: She deserves a little murder. As a treat.

Kabru be like "IS THAT MY BACKSTORY???"

That sure is....a ship. With no one on it.

Ah, shit the Americans are here.

Two things: Toshiro being tended to like a pretty pretty princess is hilarious.

And also, the fact that they think the elves can kill Falin......... hmmm.... Pressing X to doubt.

............... oh. Laios. 😂

But also like. How was he MEANT to keep it silent? Put a little something in it? I thought since it was a magic bell you could code it to only ring when it's shaken with INTENT?

Fancy ass house.

Also, Namari...........are you hitting that yet? Both of that?

Oh, it's backstory time.

Okay one: that's fucking tragic, it sounds like the Elves are just forcing the dungeons closed with no regard for how the ecosystem compensates and what people suffer by being in close proximity......

And another thing: Kabru. Kabru, isn't that what YOU'RE after? Having all the power?

Why is this so much like that one meme where the girls at the party are looking at you.

It's the same picture.

Kabru that's. That's maybe not the way to go about it. you're going to give them MORE reasons to go in.

Nevermind the governor not being into this 'good boy, now sign' talk, Toshiro's kinda right. Ya fucked up Kabru.

No matter how far Laios runs, he cannot escape other people trying to tell him how to live his life. Poor guy. But at the same time...

Is this real? Or a red herring?

Laios' father and mother seemed to be living relatively pious lives. They clearly had a good house, but it didn't seem like they were extremely rich. Then again, perhaps he's just a cousin of royalty? Is that why his parents wanted him to have children?

They want to.... halt the growth of the dungeon? Is this another part of the natural ecosystem of things? Dungeons growing seems to point even more towards the idea that it's a gigantic, fleshpit-like creature instead of simply a construct.

Then again, constructs CAN be creatures. Like the golems.

Elves not understanding how old humans are continues to be hilarious because like.

As humans, we HAVE this same concept of variant aging. Like. Dogs. We understand that dogs live less than us, and mature a lot slower. But this is.... COMMON KNOWLEDGE. Most people do not make it into adulthood without understanding that dogs mature within 1-2 years of their birth.

The fact that elves, a species with FAR more time on their hands, who have lived alongside other races for AGES....... have STILL not got the general concept of aging down....means their education is atrocious. Or they're all not paying attention.

.......this. THIS is the most fascinating concept in this chapter.

The fallen.... turned into MONSTERS.

We know that dying inside the dungeon doesn't mean permanent death. But dying above-ground does.

We know that dying in the dungeon doesn't mean your body turns into a monster (aside from ghosts and ghouls?) ..... but dying aboveground.... DOES......?

WHAT'S THE TRUTH.

👁👁

Hm.

If Kabru and Laios fused, they could almost make one functioning human being.

Senshi just beginning to speak in the middle of his own internal monologue is so real.

...... what's going on there with the expression, buddy?

Bread.......are they STILL carrying around flour with them?! How are they getting bread?!

Also, it's awesome that the eggs are canonically hard to crack, because it makes sense that they don't break during their many fighting events.

Izutsumi really said ◉_◉

Don't tell me Laios, who is sensitive to ghosts has ALSO been seeing things?

Not gonna lie, that's highkey terrifying.

Props to that ghost that's been following Laios around, not ever giving up hope that it can bother him into acknowledging it.

And also - hey, it already saved them once! that means it's probably not evil!

That, or it's the king of the bloody dungeon. Wouldn't that be something!

#dungeon meshi #dungeon meshi quick reacts #dungeon meshi liveblog #chekhov reads dungeon meshi

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shiurkoma · 6 months ago

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Take: chaotic evil Yehonatan, in which he knew David is meant to replace him and his father from the very start.

TLDR: Yehonatan is as, if not more likely to be the abuser in their relationship because it is plain unfair to overlook how humongous their power gap is, and he is abused enough to be at least a little unhinged in his noggins.

Warning: dead dove do not eat. Im going to entertain an idea where Yehonatan is definitely not a good person. If you have a problem with that, or have issue reading fictional underage abuse and emotional manipulation, please stop reading. Finally, nothing about this is meant to be serious interpretation of the original text, it's all plain headcanoning for fanfiction.

(For the record, i seriously do not consider David (even close to being) a morally good individual in any possible sense of the word. It doesn't make any of this ok tho)

Some fanfics i've seen paint the davinatan ship as a manipulative one, with david being the seducter that manipulates Yehonatan into simping for him, only to discard him after David achieved his goals. Even outside of fanfictions, i know of people who view Yehonatan as a tragic victim. While i appreciate David's more malicious side being acknowledged, and agree with it more than depicting them simply and benignly loving eachother(tho i appreciate that too), I can't help but think how both protrayal down plays just how utterly creepy yehonatan's part in the relationship is.

Like, Yehonatan, a middle aged man with wives and kids, went ahead and basically stripped in front of a teen the first night they met then gave him some really personal and valuable gifts. If thats not a red flag i don't know what is.

Yehonatan is someone you do not want to cross, maybe even more so than Saul.

It is easy to forget that, holding the title of eldest son and legal heir to the throne comes with immense pressure, responsibility and danger, and dealing with all that takes more than just a thick backbone. With a deranged father as king, people around him are constantly plotting to take the throne for themselves. All bets are off in the war for the throne, even if Yehonatan doesn't actually want to be king, his competitors (which includes but not limited to his entire family) wouldn't rest until he is dead. He isn't in a position where he can just back off: it isn't unheard of that princes and kings renounce their positions, retire, and end up getting assassinated or executed anyway. Because king or not, they are still legitimate heirs to the throne and therefore a potential threat.

Basically, Yehonatan lives in a situation where he simply cannot afford to show weakness or hesitation, not to his subordinates, not to his brothers, not to his father, not to anyone. What doesn't kill you makes you dangerous, and Yehonatan is deadly in that sense.

(But its not to say all that didn't take a toll on his mental wellbeing. Yehonatan has no business being mentally ok. He watched his father ascend to the throne, watched as Saul sunk further towards insanity, and had to endure his often psychotic abuse for years. I don't believe one bit that he isn't depressed and at least a little messed up, especially in a time where mental illnesses aren't even acknowledged yet.)

To sum it up, as a weathered crown prince, Yehonatan would logically be a person who is reasonably paranoid, moderately ruthless, extremely strong willed and more than competently intuitive about the motives and intentions of people around him.

David on the other hand (at the start of their relationship anyway) had no prior experience mingling with politics, no ties in the palace, was never regarded with importance by his father or brothers (meaning he had zero exposure and no one ever invested in him), young and inexperienced (meaning vulnerable to manipulation), stands no chance against Yehonatan if he were to play mind games on him.

David could pull an Esther on Yehonatan. But keep in mind Esther and a lot of other femme fatal spies in history had ties that helped pull strings from the outside, they are often not the master mind either. David had himself, and practically nothing else.

This is why Yehonatan helping him matters so much. Useing weak willed and easily manipulated individuals only works for you if you are already a powerful dictator. If you have absolutely nothing you need powerful allys.

The most straightforward option for dark Yehonatan is just to kick the creep element up ten notchs. David tries to seduce Yehonatan, then immediately realises he bit off more than he could chew: he is just too possessive to be controlled. Yehonatan in this scenario probably somewhat resembles that purple creep from Tokyo ghoul, entertaining while the shock value lasts, but after that it gets pretty shallow. I hate this approach tbh.

Or, him seeing David that day was Yehonatan's last straw(what i doodled basically). He stops giving a sh*t about everything, and thought since he is so "in love" he might as well groom and sodomize David. Its a petty way of getting back at God for making him fall for the boy, and for making his life miserable in general.

He uses his charms and presents himself as a saintly figure to appeal to David's more religious side, then proceeds to not only make sure that David is emotionally dependent on him(i won't elaborate how but its easier than you think), but also plans to make it so that if he dies it will f*ck David in the head. He enjoys this, because for once in his life he feels a "real" sense of control, albeit a twisted and perverted one.

(Maybe he will feel shame and regret eventually, but thats another talk for another day.)

I'll borrow my friend's comment to sum up the take: "a broken abused individual perpetuating a cycle of abuse to an ambitions sociopathic twink, each making the other worse just through being together." Another reason i prefer this version of dark Yehonatan is cuz it restores some agency Yehonatan desperate lacks.

Strayed quite far from his canon image with my shameless slandering but yeah that's about it. For now. Might explore David's pov in this later.

#id like to think that though Yehonatan believes god compelled him to fall for david #god actually didn't have any part in it #he just can't comprehend he would fall in love with that menace #Which makes it all the more messed up and tragic #yehonatan #jonathan #king david #the old testament #the book of samuel #book of samuel #yeah I'm cynical about people in power how can you tell #דוינתן #david and jonathan #abuse #chaotic evil #or maybe its neutral evil idk the difference anymore #hurt david #unrequited hate...?

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joejhang · 7 days ago

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why kevjean doesn't work.

i'm sad about it too but hear me out. spoilers ahead continue at ur own risk.

look it makes me so sad to say it but kevjean does not work in this universe (i know, this also means it doesn't work, by extension, in any universe, considering jean is dead.) and i need y'all to hear me out on this. everyone theorising that kevjean will be the endgame ship in tsc i hate to break it to u all: not only does that not at all align with anything in canon, but it also would just be a really bad writing decision on nora's part.

LET ME EXPLAIN. jean's arc in tsc is first and foremost about healing. i think everything and every relationship jean has throughout the tsc trilogy has to lend itself towards that in some way, and ultimately has to resolve in jean being in a better place than he was at the beginning, and if not done healing, then being certain that one day he will be. (this is how jean is when he graduates from usc in the current canon ec).

following this line of thought, jean logically can't end up with kevin. and not just because it contradicts canon, because i fully believe nora is free to contradict any of the ec she wants in tsc, but because fundamentally, it would not aid in jean's healing arc.

i see the appeal, i really do. kevin and jean have insane lore, off the charts chemistry and tension and are actually extremely compatible. but that isn't enough in this case to justify an established relationship between the two of them that isn't in the past. (don't get me wrong i am a WHORE for past kevjean/kevjean situationship/unrequited kevjean it's all very yum).

i genuinely think getting into a relationship w kevin at this point in the story would hurt and hinder jean's healing arc. kevin, through no fault of his own, is so deeply entwined with jean's trauma and memories in evermore that he literally cannot be anything but a trigger and catalyst for bad memories and grief/anger in jean. y'all forget just how deep kevin's departure cut jean (not just physically), and jean hasn't even entirely worked things out with kevin yet. they have a lot of dirty laundry to air out, both between the two of them and their relationship as well as about neil and r*ko. people also forget that kevin and jean both played a role in each other's abuse. jean said himself that it destroyed him, how easy it was to fall into kevin's bystander role. they both were witnesses and bystanders to each other's abuse by r*ko or tetsuji. that doesn't mean it was their fault, and they literally could not have done anything to help or stop anything, but it doesn't mean it didn't have an affect on the other nonetheless. i feel like ppl r missing a lot of nuance in this context: kevin and jean's relationship has always been inherently tragic, even if it doesn't end with a fall out. they've always been each other's greatest friend in the worst places, and they've always been forced to witness the trauma done to both of them. they're bond is complicated, even if the love is there (which i think it is). i won't call it a trauma bond but i do think their bond is deeply influenced and intertwined with their shared trauma.

even if they did work thru everything, i honestly think jerejean is the only way to go here. nora has laid the groundwork for that mutual attraction and trust there in book one, and now we're just gonna have to see how it plays out. they may not be together properly until jean graduates, but i don't see a problem with that. i think, at the end of the day, it's not a matter of if it'll happen but when. jean needs jeremy (and cat + laila) right now, and there's a reason kevin chooses to send him to the sunshine court, and it's not just cos they're the only team worthy of jean's skill. "their kindness matters." kevin says, and it does. jeremy + the trojans innate kindness and care towards jean are what he needs to heal and grow out of the ravens' shadow. being with kevin i fear would jeopardise that. at the end of the day, kevin is too deeply rooted in jean's past, which is a veritable goldmine of trauma that, while does need to be acknowledged and talked about, does not need to be dug up again. this isn't jean or kevin's fault, just a fact.

i think nora's also made it pretty clear that kevjean (whether requited or not) is a thing of the past. the love was there, and it might've changed everything and it might've changed nothing, but the love was there. and maybe it still is. but things have changed, and they're both going their own way and i think it's really important to understand that.

side note: this is also part of the reason i'm not the biggest fan of thea and kevin's relationship. i'm not actually sure if they're all that good for each other, given how/where their relationship began and developed. i don't doubt they care for and love each other, but i just don't know if they're the best people for each other in terms of like...wellbeing. anyway does anyone have any good kevaaron fic recs???

#mildly microwaved take #gonna piss some ppl off with this one #zoe yaps #aftg #all for the game #the sunshine court #tsc #jean moreau #kevin day #jeremy knox #riko moriyama #neil josten #kevjean #jerejean #the golden raven #tgr

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chiibinomonodamon · 7 months ago

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WHO WANTS TO HEAR ME RAMBLE ABOUT GAY FURRY DEMON SEX? XD

(damn, there's a sentence I never thought I'd say....)

Okay...so I see some Stolitz confusion and bashing online and I need to type up a defense here because I won't be able to sleep otherwise lol

I consider myself to be a Ship Critic and someone who takes shipping rather seriously.

What I mean by this is, I like to analyze and break down romantic relationships between fictional characters because it's just interesting to write for me. I especially take delight in friendly debating with opinions that I strongly do *not* agree with.

Let me start off by saying I am NOT a "this ship is awesome because gay furry sex lol" type of girl.

FAR from it. I'm generally more passionate about hetero ships between human characters (because I can relate to them more) among other reasons. So if you wanna dismiss my defense as "shallow fangirlism", you can forget about that lame excuse.

I fell in love with Hazbin Hotel when it was finally released in February and suffered waiting for each new two-parts per week. During that time, I decided to watch Helluva Boss as well, after a friend showed me a particularly soul-crushing clip (Moxxie's childhood trauma about his mother).

Yes, I like funny sex jokes as much as the next goofy adult but scenes like this, scenes that carry a very heavy emotional weight are what really get me in the end, even moreso when VERY little dialogue is exchanged. I knew I had to watch the entire episode run after seeing that the creators had a talent for this.

I saw people asking:

"How did Stolas go from using Blitz as a sex toy to being painfully in love with him?"

Oh I can tell you. I can tell you the EXACT moment this is revealed. But it's not spoon-fed to you; it's quite subtle actually and this is why lots of people miss it.

See, one of the strongest talents Vivenne has shown me is that she REALLY knows how to get her characters to communicate their feelings to the viewers JUST from their expressions and body language. These can be 'blink-and-miss-it' teeny little scenes and it may require a couple rewatches.

But since people demand time stamps for all information others post here, I'll rewatch a few scenes from S1 E7 'Ozzie's' as I'm typing this.

'Ozzie's' remains to be not just my favorite episode of HB...but probably my favorite episode of any adult-targeted animated show outside of Japan (aside from S2 E7's Mid-Season Special)

It has this huge reveal for both Blitzo and Stolas.

We'll first address Blitzo's irrational, stalkerish behavior of Moxxie and Millie.

He's obsessed with them. He finds both of them very attractive, fantasizes about threesomes with them and is constantly inserting himself into their personal lives.

Why?

Because they have everything that he badly badly wants for himself.

They have the perfect marriage and he is trying to live THROUGH them.

This was hilarious to me at the beginnning of the show but it's slowly revealed that it's one of the most tragic and depressing things I've ever seen. And it's scarily realistic too.

But you know this already so let's move on...

Blitzo follows the couple to Ozzie's but he can't get in without a date. So he calls up Stolas and yes, this is very low but he doesn't realize how much this means to Stolas (hell, I'm not sure even Stolas realizes it himself!) but the owl man is giddy with joy, he rushes over and they enter Ozzie's.

When Ozzie and Fizz mock Moxxie for being so sappy towards his wife, this strikes a chord with Blitzo (because they're his IDEAL relationship) and he speaks up to defend them.

NOW PAY CLOSE ATTENTION; THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART:

Fizz, still holding onto his past grudge turns on Blitzo to humilate him:

"Some nerve you got commenting on a relationship"

Time Stamp: 11:37

As Fizz says "-ship", Blitzo VERY QUICKLY makes eye contact with Stolas who has a look of panic on his face. Blitzo is seeking VALIDATION from Stolas in this sharp, subtle second of screentime, as if to ask

"Well, ARE we in one?"

And then what happens next...Stolas remains silent, Blitzo's ex joins in to announce how selfish Blitzo was in bed with her, tearing him down further. Stolas stands up like he's going to put a stop to it but then Ozzie notices him and interrogates him about sleeping with Blitzo.

Blitzo looks incredibly ashamed and guilty as Stolas blushes with similar feelings...and hides his face behind his menu; HIS BIGGEST MISTAKE IN THE SERIES SO FAR.

Time Stamp: 12:24

The look on Blitzo's face as he grits his teeth and darts his eyes away basically says

"Yeah, I should have known...boy am I an idiot for trusting him to stand up for me".

(look how SHOCKED he is...wow, this hurts fr ;_;)

This is a silent betrayal on Stolas's part. Afterall, his reputation is on the line, so if he were to defend Blitzo, it confirms they are in fact, dating. He chose his pride over Blitzo and Blitzo is crushed by this betrayal.

Moxxie finishes his song and kisses his wife tenderly. Stolas watches this and also wants to have an affectionate moment with Blitzo (who is rightfully glaring daggers at him) and tries to reach for his hand.

Blitzo rejects his touch and suggests they leave. As they do, Blitzo still looks furious and hurt. Stolas is now realizing how badly he screwed up with a "What have I done?" face (13:41)

He even looks disappointed with himself.

After Blitzo drops Stolas off, he thanks him and tries to smooth over the awkwardness with sweet talk but Blitzo just rolls his eyes in disgust and pulls on his face like "I don't want to hear this bullshit".

He responds coldly and curtly, "Yeah." Stolas makes more suggestions to spend time with him, which just makes him even angrier and he snaps

"I'm not fucking you tonight, okay!

I'm really just..." (14:28)

he pauses to wipe a tear because at this point he can barely hold it together (top notch voice acting and animation directing btw)

"...not in the mood, Stolas."

Stolas still tries to talk him into doing couple things unrelated to sex.

Blitzo's face switches back to anger and frustration because Stolas isn't getting the message so he goes for the blunt tactic;

"Stolas, don't act like what we have is anything but YOU wanting ME to fuck you, okay?"

(14:42)

"You make that really clear all the time."

(again his voice sounds like he's about to break down)

"But I-I just can't do it tonight, okay?"

(Finally meets his eye)

"...I'm sorry."

I believe this is code for "I'm sorry we're even in this situation and how your reputation got damaged. " Or, more painfully, "I'm sorry I'm such an embarrassment to you".

Stolas replies "Okay" and takes a deep breath to compose himself. They say goodnight and depart.

An important note here is that Stolas calls him "Blitzo" instead of "Blitzy" to show more respect.

As Blitzo zooms away coldly, Stolas looks up at the sky with tears in his eyes, surprised at how much it hurts.

He then sits down with his head in his hands in anguish...because he's getting that

"Oh...no. These feelings are real" epiphany.

And as if this wasn't enough angst, Blitzo collapses onto his couch at home, goes through the memories on his phone and starts sobbing.

I'm going to be real with you; this is the most heart-breaking shit I have ever seen in an adult show of this type. It's also the first time a show of this type got me to cry.

The last six minutes have revealed so much information without spoonfeeding it to the audience because the show RESPECTS its audience.

To recap:

*Blitzo takes Stolas on a first official date to use him

*Stolas is extremely happy about it

*Blitzo gets humilated and looks to Stolas for validation

*Stolas betrays him and breaks his heart

*Blitzo snaps that their relationship is nothing more than lust-driven sex

*Stolas realizes he's actually in love with Blitzo and it's a huge problem because (he believes) that it's unrequited.

*Blitzo breaks down because the ONE person whom he thought would protect him didn't do so.

So these two are convinced that neither one loves the other...while the irony is, it's quite the opposite.

Because if Blitzo REALLY didn't feel anything towards Stolas, he would not have gotten this emotional.

Yes, they are both lonely...but I really don't think that's all there is between them.

So..........we know WHEN they started falling...now the question is why;

I think the answer's quite simple; single-target affection.

It was mentioned in S2 that Stolas and Stella did sleep together ONE TIME...but Stolas didn't enjoy it at all. He is stuck with a wife who hates him so much that she put a HIT on him...and a daughter who thinks he's a loser. Blitzo is pretty much the one person in his life who is able to make him happy. That one small, bright spot. He enjoys the sex with him but he also simply enjoys his company, as shown in Ozzie's episode. He is thrilled to simply talk to him about his day...and do anything else that couples do. They're complete opposites. Stolas is an intellectual but naive and sheltered. Blitzo is poorly educated but cynical and street-smart. Opposites attract...though this is likely more from Stolas's POV than Blitzo's.

In other words, Stolas is into bad boys xD lmao

In Blitzo's case, Stolas is the only character who shows him physical affection which he desperately craves. He's pretty tsundere about it most of the time...but I think he actually does enjoy that attention...especially when he's always getting disrespected by Moxxie and Loona..and quite a lot of people around him. BUT he's too scared to get serious with anyone because of past trauma and he also believes that no one could possibly love him as a person. :(

Reasons I Think This Love is Real

Aside from what I pointed out in the Ozzie's episode...there's quite a lot of evidence, esp from Stolas's POV.

After he realizes he's in love, he goes to Asomodeous for an ALTERNATIVE method for Blitzo to use so they will no longer sleep together. He wants to set Blitzo free. Which means he DOES truly love him because love is about being generous to the other person. He COULD be totally selfish about it but he isn't.

Asomodeous mentions how against love potions he is and Stolas agrees. He thinks that's out of the question.

'Look My Way' music video. Lol I don't have to say anything more.

In S2 E6 OOPS

This exchange at 16:57

Fizz: Seems your taste has gotten more 'regal', lately?

Blitz: Yeah, well unlike you, I fuck who I want WHEN I want. I'm not gonna be tied down to some big blue-blood asshole.

Fizz: You coulda fooled me the way Prince was cozying up to you at Ozzie's.

Blitz (gets very defensive) HEY! Stolas only cares about have a rugged peasant raw-dog him into his mattress, okay!

It's nothing...(gets hesistant and looks away)...you know...

(Fizz gives him a 'bitch please' look xD)

"it's nothing else."

Fizz: Then why were you even there?

Blitz: OTHER very important reasons of course.

Fizz: Whatever. I don't actually care.

Blitz: Stolas is just a loud, thirsty BITCH!

(Fizz is rolling his eyes again)

Blitz: He loves feeling the thrill of getting dicked by the lower class.

It's a novelty to him.

Fizz: LITERALLY just said I don't care!

Blitz: And then he'll call me and try to see how my day was!

And he'll pretend to care about me and comment on my photos laugh at my jokes...

Fizz: (Smirking) OH! That's definitely your clue right there that it's all bullshit!

Blitz: I KNOW, RIGHT??

Fizz: (Making a 'What in idiot' expression, shaking his head)

Blitz: HE'S JUST A FAKE, PRIVELEDGED ASSHOLE...

Fizz: Sounds like you just hate him for being a prince!

No one (laughs) and I mean NO ONE pretends to care that much just for a cheap lay.

All right. IF ANYONE knows what real love is like, it's Fizzaroli...who is in a very HEALTHY relationship with Asomodeous. He recognizes the signs because he's IN that place. He sees it...and he's annoyed that Blitzo keeps denying it and brushing it off...yet clearly can NOT stop talking about Stolas (amusing irony)

To sum up (this freaking essay lol) 'Stolitz' ABSOLUTELY has the potential to be pure and true...these two just need to communicate...or Stolas has to PROVE to Blitzo that he's serious about his feelings in another way.

There is no doubt that this ship is 100% endgame and is a case of the 'Earn Your Happy Ending' Trope. I look forward to the rest of the journey. Ron is putting my feelings about Stolitz in a perfect phrase:

#shipping #helluva boss #blitzø #stolas #stolitz #blitzo x stolas #stolas x blitz #vivziepop #animation #man they really have a firm grip on my heart #it's so strange to me lol #OH THE ANGST

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demigodpolls · 3 months ago

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Why do you think Frank gets so little attention from the fandom at large?

although I don't fault anyone individually for not having interest in a given character, I do think it's pretty sad that not much mind is paid to frank. it's not the best metric to measure things by, but on AO3, frank has the fewest fanfics of the prophecy 7 by a pretty wide margin.

there's no point in comparing him to the likes of percy, annabeth, and nico, who have existed for way longer, but the lost hero trio have well over 10k works for all three individually, while hazel has 8.7k (her popularity is surely bolstered by her relation to nico, the second most popular pjo character on ao3) and frank has about 7k. interestingly, will solace has over 15k fics--and that of course has to do with the popularity of solangelo (the second most popular pjo ship on ao3, as you see above), but considering how recently tsats came out (and how little material/information about him existed before that), I still think that number is pretty remarkable.

with all of this in mind, here are some of the reasons why I think frank doesn't get a ton of attention from the fandom below the cut.

- part of it probably has to do with shipping. while frazel is a well-accepted canon ship, I don't think it actually garners a ton of real interest. when a pairing is very popular, its individual parties will inevitably share that popularity; i.e., will solace, as observed previously. furthermore, frank doesn't really have any popular non-canon ships. online fandoms heavily favor mlm pairings over any other kind of pairing (this is just a very neutral, well-observed fact, so I hope no one is bothered by this acknowledgement), but if a male character is not popularly shipped with other men, they tend to fall to the wayside. to be honest, I think it's a little surprising that frank/leo doesn't get more favor; maybe it's because people just don't like to acknowledge the love triangle they were in, but the enemies-to-lovers material that people usually enjoy is right there, you know? jason/leo is fairly popular on tumblr at least, but no one really ships its SoN counterpart percy/frank either, which is interesting.

- part of it probably has to do with the fact that, compared to others, frank does not appear to be a very angsty character. fandoms tend to prefer characters who have tragic backstories and/or highly-animated personalities, and while frank undeniably has his individual struggles, they probably seem quite small compared to the bulk of the principal cast. for reasons like this, a lot of people will likely tell you that they don't find frank (or his powers) very interesting, and prefer to devote their attention to other characters.

- part of it probably has to do with frank (in my opinion) being neglected by HoO books. I wish he had gotten to do so much more! but of the things that he did do, I don't think many people consider them to be very memorable.

- I think there's also no point in ignoring the fact that frank is a chubby POC, and well, these types just aren't often so beloved by fandoms. that his only popular ship is with another POC probably doesn't help matters, to be honest...! it's just a well-documented phenomenon that, unless they're anime characters, POC characters and POC x POC ships tend to be much less popular in online fandoms than their white counterparts (i.e., 2010s star wars comes to mind). of all 10 percy jackson POV characters on ao3 (I'm including will in this figure and excluding apollo, who I consider an outlier), piper, leo, hazel, frank, and reyna make up the bottom 5 in that order in terms of popularity. this page is a great resource for more data on race, queerness, gender, etc on ao3. (unrelated - fascinatingly, percabeth is the 8th most popular m/f ship on ao3 of all time, and jiper is 96th!)

that's just my two cents as to why I think frank doesn't get a ton of attention. I hope no one is upset by my observations, I mean all of them in a pretty neutral, analytical way. to anyone else reading this, here is a reminder that character hate and ship hate is not tolerated on this blog. if you post unkind things, your comments will be deleted and your account will be blocked. we don't need to bash other characters or ships in order to uplift others. save it for your own blogs, please!

thank you for asking and engaging with this blog!

-demigodpolls

#ooc #frank zhang #percy jackon and the olympians #frazel #valzhang #solangelo #percabeth #jiper #tagging these in case people want to avoid all mentions of these ships #valgrace

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izzyhandslightofmylife · 11 months ago

Text

Official statement on why Izzy's death affected me so much

Our Flag Means Death, is, at it’s core, is a show that focuses on queer joy- a form of therapy for those that have been raised on queerbaiting, shipping minor side characters, or watching, when nothing else is available, queer tragedies. You know how it goes- the two main characters, both male, have chemistry. They say things to each other that seem weirdly like declarations of love. They look at each other with love in their eyes. You see these things and the main man gets married off to a badly written, unfinished female character and is left feeling empty. The best friend dies for the main character to live. When everyone talks about how cute the main couple are, you want to scream all of a sudden, because nobody can see this love story play out except you. It’s queer, it’s tragic, and nobody else can understand it.

Not Our Flag Means Death. From the moment it aired, it was praised as a show with unabashed queer joy, which means more than I can possibly say. The two main male characters meet, they have chemistry, and they fall in love. It’s not implied, or hinted at, but blatantly obvious. Their romances and the queer romances around them attracted so many queer fans who felt that after so many years, this type of show was a vindication for what they had been through with other media.

In this show, piracy itself was that of a found family. Though Stede Bonnet and the crew of the Revenge start off with many differences, the core of the show centers around a theme that many queer audiences are attracted to: found family. The Revenge was depicted as a safe space, where everyone could express themselves freely, a refuge from a world of judgment. Queerness was not only accepted but normalized on The Revenge. No homophobia, no coming out, no typical complications of queer romance. Just love and safety. Warmth, which was Ed Teach wished for in purgatory. Which was what he found on the Revenge. The ship was a safe space that so many queer audiences had dreamed of.

Well, a safe space except for one person: Izzy Hands, Blackbeard’s First Mate, who was a man painfully stuck in the wrong genre. This is the general consensus by both fans and the cast: Izzy, Edward and their crew had been in a gritty action movie, whereas Stede and his crew were in a muppet movie of sorts. While the majority of Blackbeard’s crew quickly acclimates to and celebrates the change, Izzy doesn’t.

And right away, many fans felt a deep attraction to Izzy. The reason that Izzy couldn’t get Edward to love him was because, in the end, the only way that Izzy knew how to love was through blood. To give and receive pain in an action movie is one of the greatest forms of love, but Izzy fails to realize that Ed is not in an action movie anymore. He is happy with this stability, and the reason that so many people felt Izzy’s presence so was strongly was that he wasn’t.

So many queer people are, in a way, addicted to tragedy. Tragedy is all that is represented in queer media for the most part, or was until very recently. Take Achilles and Patroclus, one of the most celebrated and recognized queer love stories of both ancient and modern times. Why that one? There are other greek love stories, many of them queer. The tragedy of it- Patroclus’ death and Achilles’ rage- made it all the more appealing. Many in the audience of Our Flag Means Death were not comedy fans, they were horror or drama fans, attracted to a comedy because of the love story. But Izzy, to them, was a physical representation of who they were, carrying an awareness of homophobia, of blood and pain that so many queer relationships had previously been illustrated by (i.e. Hannibal). Though Ed may not have understand this type of affection, the audience did- Izzy’s Otherness from the crew despite it’s safety, his expressions of love and his unrequited love story were all things that the audience were familiar with feeling.

If Ed and Stede were good queer representation, Ed and Izzy, for example, were a foil of that. They were evil, messed up, and fed into the worst parts of each other because it brought them closer. This is a theme present in a lot of queer media, and by extension, queer lives: “if you love me, Henry, you don’t love me in a way I understand”, is an excerpt classic queer poem about unrequited love that fits the situation. The very reason Izzy stuck in people’s heads because he was of a different genre. His grittiness and bitterness made sense to the audience. They saw Izzy and saw what was familiar. He was exquisitely written, simultaneously making even casual audiences both hate him, and against all odds, find him oddly endearing. The idea of this man sacrificing every inch of himself for an unrequited love was a concept of tragedy, leaking into a comedic show.

So fans projected onto Izzy. He was a catalyst for the heartache, for the audience’s sheer inability to have a happy show. For one reason or another, some of the audience simply couldn’t live with a show that was all fantastical, which I theorize is because they couldn’t see themselves in it. So Izzy became the epitome of queer suffering: pining longingly after another man that couldn’t understand him. This projection of suffering, however, led to a new wish: happiness for Izzy. If Izzy in Season 1 was a tragedy, assimilating him into the found family in Season 2 would have elevated the safe sense of the ship all the more. It would have proved to so many of these Izzy Fans that yes, even though you view yourself as unloveable, even though you see yourself as Israel Hands, Villain, even he can be loved too. Why can’t you be?

And Season 2, for the most part, delivered beyond our wildest dreams. Izzy had people who cared about him. And though the genre shifted into the darker, Izzy himself shifted slightly to the comedic side as well. His life, which had been centered for so long around a man that didn’t reciprocate his feelings, was gone. He started a new life, and this life, again, focused on queer joy. The queer joy from Season 1 was suddenly for everyone, even those like Izzy that couldn’t have understood it. He sang, he whittled, he talked about feelings, he dressed in drag. Many elder queer fans also saw Izzy as another metaphor, too: that queer joy can be attained overtime. You don’t have to have had it the whole time, but you can accept yourself even when you are older. The message of Izzy was one of resilience and stubbornness, one that the queer community needed to hear: that you don’t have to be like this, you don’t have to create pain for yourself. You don’t need to watch tragedies all the time. You, too, can heal from the past.

And then, the season finale happened. By this point, many argued that Izzy had stolen the show. Con O’Neil’s acting mixed with his general arc of self acceptance had made him a fan favorite. In the last episode, it is Izzy himself who sums it up perfectly, accepting that he belongs somewhere despite his pain and flaws. Despite the darkness within him, he was still accepted and loved. He says it right to the face of Prince Ricky, who thinks himself above it all. That piracy, a metaphor for otherness, wasn’t actually about being alone; it was about finding others that understood you when nobody else could.

Listen, this show is known for it’s nonsensicality. In the finale of Season 1, Lucius is thrown overboard by Ed and survives by simply swimming to another ship. Stede reunites with his crew by sailing a rowboat. Buttons turns into a seagull. Stede stabs Ed for a comedic bit. Earlier in the season, Izzy himself gets shot and survives. This queer joy show was celebrated for being, well, joyful. Even when things like getting thrown overboard did happen, they were, ultimately, a blip in the character’s journey towards acceptance, healing, etc, which was what made the show unique. Our Flag Means Death, whose audience had been living for years off of the “Bury your gays” trope, was adored because it illustrated a world where things didn’t have to be that way. A place where the impossible, such as Izzy Hands being loved, could happen. This show was one of survival.

But not for the one person that was seen to struggle with this concept the most. Not for the one person that was a metaphor for belonging in this place, who became, over the course of a season, the embodiment of the message itself. Not for the Unicorn, the very symbol of this magical, nonsensical ship. Not for the most stubborn, most indestructible, most enduring (queer) person in the show. Not for Izzy Hands.

This trope, honestly, was one that many have seen before, both in mainstream and queer media. A character, previously shown to be a villain or else to have gone through a lot of pain, is shown to heal, to get better, and then to die in order to “complete their arc”. This trope is common: Loki, Cas. even Ted Lasso, who doesn’t die but goes back to the very place that broke him in the first place. But the reason that Izzy’s death, while it might have been expected in another show, felt like a betrayal in this one is because it was known for subverting those tropes. From the “Bury Your Gays” to the “Up For Interpretation”, it was known to look those tropes in the eyes and say “fuck you, these people deserve to be happy”. And this did happen! Except for the one character who’s healing journey was one of the most relatable, at least to queer audiences.

What also made it so jarring was that all the other characters got to be happy, except for the one that had struggled with the idea of happiness the most. In the scene immediately after Izzy is buried, Lucius and Pete get married. In the scene after, a montage of queer joy and found family is shown amongst the whole crew. In the final scene, Ed and Stede, our main queer couple, are shown healing themselves and starting a new life together. The last shot, however, showed Izzy’s grave, visited by Buttons the seagull while Ed and Stede had dinner. A tragedy in it’s finest. It wouldn’t have been difficult for Izzy to live. Because, in the end, his death meant nothing. His healing meant nothing. He died and was moved on from in a matter of seconds. He was, as I mentioned, the catalyst for tragedy, more specifically, queer tragedy. But because of this, of his genre, Izzy didn’t get to live. He had to die in order for the rest of the characters to keep living in this fantasy world. This death was, in a way, a preservation of these other love stories.

I maintain, however, that it would have meant more if Izzy had lived. If he had been able to show to us that yes, despite what you have been through, despite what you may have inflicted upon yourself, you can switch genres. It’s possible. Izzy’s survival up until that point had been a profound testament to many that it is possible to heal, that queerness does not have to mean sadness. It would have continued to be a testament to that if only Izzy had lived. And so, this pirate that we latched onto, not in spite of his darkness but because of it, was buried on land on the side of the road.

As a side note, many previous incidences in the story point to the idea even though Ed and Stede will definitely stay together, it’s uncertain if the inn would have worked out. It’s likely that, being a whim, those two might have chosen to move, or go back to the sea, or sail to China. If this is true, they would have left Izzy’s grave by itself, like a family pet buried in the yard. If this is true, Izzy Hands, a metaphor for belonging, would rot alone.

Long live the tragedy addicts. Long live the Richard Siken poems. Long live Izzy Hands.

*When I talk about the "fandom" I am referring to the canyon.

#izzy hands #izzy hands apologist #izzy canyon #our flag means death #ofmd finale #ofmd #izzy hands death #izzy deserved better #ofmd fanfic #i guess #ofmd canyon #con o'neill #tragedy #oh uh happy new year #ofmd meta

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physalian · 11 months ago

Text

Humanizing Your Characters (And Why You Should)

To humanize a character is not to contort an irredeemable villain into the warped funhouse mirror reflection of a hero in the last 30 seconds to gain “narrative subversion” points. To humanize is not to give said villain a tragic backstory that validates every bad choice they make in attempt to provide nuance where it does not deserve to be.

To humanize a character, villain or otherwise, is to make them flawed. Scuff them up, give them narrative birthmarks and scars and imperfections. Whether it’s your hero, their love interest, the comic relief, the mentor, the villain, the rival, these little narrative details serve to make all your literary babies better.

Why should you humanize your characters?

To do this means to write in details beyond those that service the plot, or the themes, or the motifs, morals, foreshadowing, or story. These might be (and usually are) entirely unimportant in the grand scheme of things. So, if I wrote lengthy diatribes on pacing and why every detail must matter, and character descriptions and thematic importance, why am I now suggesting go free-for-all on the fluff?

Just like real people have quirks and tics and beliefs and pet peeves that serve our no greater purpose, so should fictional people. Your average reader doesn’t have the foggiest idea what literary devices are beyond metaphor, simile foreshadowing, and anecdote, but they can tell when the author is using motif and theme and all the syntactical marvels because it reads that much richer, even if they can’t pinpoint why.

And, for shipping fodder, these tiny little details are what help your audience fall in love with the character. It doesn’t even have to be in a book – Taylor Swift (whether you like her or not) never fills her music with sexual innuendo or going clubbing. She tells stories filled with human details like dancing in the refrigerator light. People can simultaneously relate to these very specific and vivid experiences, and say “not that exactly, but man this reminds me of…” and that’s (part of) the reason her music is so popular.

What kinds of narratives need these details?

All of them. Visual media, audio, written, stage play. Now, to what degree and excess you apply these details depends on your tone, intended audience, and writing style. If your style of writing is introspection heavy, noir character drama, you might go pretty heavy on the character design.

But even if you’re writing a kids book with a scant few paragraphs of setting descriptors and internal narration, or you’re drawing a comic book – if you have characters you want people to care about, do this.

Animators, particularly, are very adept at humanizing non-human characters, because, unlike live acting, every single stroke of the pen is there with intent. They use their own reflections for facial references, record their own movements to draw a dance, and insert little bits of themselves into signature character poses so you know that *that* animator did this one.

How to humanize your characters.

I’m going to break this down into a couple sections: Costume/wardrobe, personality, beliefs/behavior/superstitions, haptics/proxemics/kinesics, and voice. They will all overlap and the sheer variety and possibilities are way too broad for me to capture every facet.

Costumes and Wardrobe

In the film Fellowship of the Ring, there’s a blink-and-you’ll-miss-it moment where, after Boromir is slain by the Uruk-Hai, Aragorn takes Boromir’s Gondorian vambraces to wear in his honor, and in honor of their shared country. He wears them the rest of the trilogy. The editing pays no extra attention to them beyond a split second of Aragorn tightening the straps, it never lingers on them, never reminds you that they’re there, but they kept it in nonetheless. His actor also included a hunting bow that didn't exist in the book because he's a roamer, a ranger, and needs to be able to feed himself, along with a couple other survival tools.

Aragorn wears plenty of other symbolic bits of costume – the light of the Evenstar we see constantly from Arwen, the Lothlorien green cloaks shared by the entire Fellowship, his re-forged sword and eventual full Gondorian regalia, but all those are Epic Movie Moments that serve a thematic purpose.

Taking the vambraces is just a small, otherwise insignificant character moment, a choice made for no other reason than that’s what this character would do. That’s what makes him human, not an archetype.

When you’re writing these details and can’t rely on sneaking them into films, you have to work a little harder to remind your audience that they exist, but not too often. A detail shifts from “human” to “plot point” when it starts to serve a purpose to the themes and story.

Inconsequentiality might be how a character ties, or doesn’t tie their shoelaces, because they just can’t be bothered so they remain permanent knots and tripping hazards. It might be a throw-away line about how they refuse to wear shorts and strictly stick to long pants because they don’t like showing off their legs. It might be perpetually greasy hair from constantly running their fingers through it with stress, or self-soothing. A necklace they fidget with, or a ring, a belt they never bother to replace even though they should, a pair of lucky socks.

Resist the urge to make it more meaningful than “this is just how they are”. If I’m using the untied shoelaces example – in Spiderverse, this became a part of the story’s themes, motifs, and foreshadowing, and doesn’t count. Which isn’t bad! It’s just not what I’m talking about.

Personality

In How to Train Your Dragon, Toothless does not speak. All his personality comes from how he moves, the noises he makes, and the expressions on his face. There’s moments, like in the finale, when his prosthetic has burned off and Hiccup tells him to hold on for a little bit longer, and you can clearly see on his face that he’s deeply uncertain about his ability to do so. It’s almost off the screen, another blink-and-you’ll-miss-it moment. Or the beat of hesitation before he lets Hiccup touch him in the Forbidden Friendship scene. Or the irritated noise he makes when he’s impatiently waiting for Hiccup to stop chatting with his dad because they have a giant dragon to murder. Or when he slaps Hiccup with his ear fin for flying them into a rock spire.

None of those details *needed* to exist to endear you to his character or to serve the scenes they’re in. The scenes would carry on just fine without them. He’s a fictional dragon, yes, but these details make him real.

Other personality tics you could include might be a character who gets frustrated with tedious things very quickly and starts making little inteligible curses under their breath. Or how they giggle when they’re excited and start bouncing on their toes. Maybe they have a tic where they snap their fingers when they’re concentrating, trying to will an idea into existence. Or they stick their tongue out while they work and get embarrassed when another character calls them on it. They roll around in their sleep, steal blankets, drool, leave dishes in the sink or are neurotic with how things must be organized. They have one CD in their car, and actually use that CD player instead of the phone jack or Bluetooth. They sing in the shower, while they cook, or while they do homework, no matter how grating their voice.

They like the smell of new shoes or Sharpies. They hate the texture of suede or velvet or sticky residues. They never pick their socks up. They hate the overhead light in their room and use 50 lamps instead. They hate turning into oncoming traffic or don’t trust their backup camera. They collect Funko Pops and insist there’s always room for more.

And about a million others.

Beliefs, Behaviors, and Superstitions

*If you happen to be writing a story where superstitions have merit, maybe skip this one.* Usually, inevitably, these evolve into character centerpieces and I can’t actually think of one off the top of my head that doesn’t become this beyond the ones we all know. A few comedic examples do come to mind:

The Magic Conch in “Club Spongebob” and the sea-bear-proof dirt circle in “The Camping Episode”

Dean Winchester’s fear and panic-driven actions in “Yellow Fever” and “Sam, Interrupted”

The references to the trolls that steal left-foot socks in How to Train Your Dragon

I’m not a fan of wasting time writing a religious character doing their religious thing when Plot Is Happening, but smaller things are what I’m talking about. Like them wearing a cross/rosary and touching it when they’re nervous. Having a specific off-beat prayer, saying, or expression because they don’t believe in cursing.

The classic ones like black cats, ladders, broken mirrors, salt, sidewalk cracks can all be funny. Athletes have plenty, too, and some of them, particularly in baseball culture, are a bit ridiculous. Not washing socks or uniforms, having a team idol they donate Double Bubble to and also rub their toes. A specific workout routine, diet, team morale dance.

Other things, too. A character who’s afraid to go back downstairs once the lights are off, or fear the basement or the backyard shed. Or they’re really put-off by this old family photo for no reason other than how glassy their eyes look and it’s creepy. They like crystals, dreamcatchers, star signs, tarot, or they absolutely do not under any circumstances.

They believe in all the tried and true ways of predicting the weather like a grizzled old sailor. They believe in ghosts, vampires, werewolves, witches, skinwalkers, doppelgangers, fairies. They talk to the cat statue in their kitchen and named it Fudge Pop. They whisper to the spirit that possessed the fridge so it stops making all that racket, and half the time, it works every time. They wear yellow for good luck or carry a rabbit’s foot. They’re not religious at all but still throw prayers out to whoever’s listening because, you know, just in case. They sit by their window sill and talk to the moon and the stars and pretend like they’re in a music video when they’re driving through the city in the rain.

Haptics, Proxemics, and Kinesics

These are, for all you non-communication and psych majors out there, touch and physical contact, how they move, and how they move around other people.

Behold, your shipping fodder.

Two shining examples of proxemics in action are the famous “close talker” episode of Seinfeld (of which every communication major has been subjected to) and Castiel’s not understanding of personal space (and human chronemic habits) in Supernatural.

These are how a character walks, if they’re flat-footed, clumsy, or tip-toers. If they make a racket or constantly spook the other characters. If they fidget or can’t sit still in a seat for five seconds, if they like to sit backwards or upside down. How they touch themselves, if they do a lot of self-soothing maneuvers (hugging themselves, rubbing their arms, touching their face, drawing their knees up, holding their neck, etc) or if they don’t do any self-soothing at all.

This is how they shake hands, if they dance while they cook or work. It’s how much space they let themselves take up, if they man-spread or keep their limbs in closer. How close they stand to others or how far. If they let themselves be touched at all, or if they always have their skin covered. If they always have their back to a wall, or are always making sure they know where the nearest exit is. If they make grand gestures when they talk and give directions. If they flinch from pats on the back or raised hands. If they lean away from loud voices or project their own. If they use their height to their advantage when arguing, puff their chest, square their shoulders, put their hands on their hips, or point fingers in accusation.

If they touch other characters as they pass by. If they’re huggers or victims of falling asleep on or near their comrades. If they must sleep facing the door, or with something solid behind them. If they can sleep in the middle of a party wholly uncaring. If they sleepwalk, sleeptalk, migrate across the bed to cuddle whoever’s nearest with no idea they’re doing it.

If they like to be held or like to hold others. If they hate being picked up and slung around or are touch-starved for it. If they like their space and stick to it or are more than happy to share.

Do they walk with grace, head held high and back straight? Or are they hunched over, head hung, watching their feet? Are they meanderers or speed-walkers? Do they cross their arms in front or lace their hands behind them? Do they bow to authority or meet that gaze head on?

I have heard that Prince Zuko, in Last Airbender, is usually drawn sleeping with his bad ear down when he doesn’t feel safe, like on his warship or anywhere in the Fire Nation, or on the road. He’s drawn on his other side once he joins the Gaang. In Dead Man’s Chest, just before Davy Jones drives the Flying Dutchman under the waves, two tentacles curl up and around the brim of his hat to keep it from blowing off in the water.

When they fight, do they attack first, or defend first? Do they touch other characters’ hair? Share makeup, share clothes? Touch their faces with boops or bonks or nuzzles and eskimo kisses? Do they crack their knuckles and necks and knees?

Do they stare in baffled curiosity at all the other characters wholly comfortable in each other's spaces because they can’t, won’t, or don’t see the point in all this nonsense? Do they say they’re happy on the outside, but are betrayed by their body language?

Voice

Whether or not to write an accent is entirely up to you. Books like Their Eyes Were Watching God writes dialogue in a vernacular specific to its characters. Westerners and southerners tend to be written with the southern drawl or dialect, ripe with stereotypical contractions. Be advised, however, that in attempt to write an accent to give your character depth, you could be instead turning off your audience who doesn’t have energy to decipher what they’re saying, or you went and wrote a racist stereotype.

Voice isn’t just accent and dialect, nor is it how it sounds, which falls more solidly under useful character descriptions. Voice for the sake of humanizing your characters concerns how they talk, how they convey their thoughts, and how they become distinct from other characters in dialogue and narration.

If you’re writing a narrative that hops heads and don’t want to include a big banner to indicate who’s talking at any given time, this is where voice matters. It is, I think, the least appreciated of all the possible traits to pay attention to.

First person narrators have the most flexibility here because the audience is zero degrees removed from their first-hand experiences. Their personality comes through sharply in how they describe things and what they pay attention to.

But it’s also in what similes and metaphors they use. I read a book that had an average (allegedly straight) male narrator going off and describing colors with types of flowers, some I had to look up because I just don’t know those off the top of my head. My immediate thought was either this character is a poorly written gay, or he’s a florist. Neither (allegedly), the writer was just being too specific.

Do they have crutch words they use? like, um, actually, so…, uh

Or repeat exclamations specific to them? yikes, yowzers, jeepers, jinkies, zoinks, balls, beans, d’oh!

Or idioms they’re fond of? Like a bat out of hell. Snowball’s chance.

Do they stutter when they’re nervous? Do they lose their train of thought and bounce around, losing other characters in the process? Do they have a non-Christian god they pray to and say something other than “thank God”? Are they from another country, culture, time period, realm, or planet with their own gods, beliefs, and idioms?

When they describe settings, how flowery is the language? Would this grizzled war hero use flowery language? How would he or she describe the color pink, versus a PTA mom? Do they use only a generic “blue, green, red” or do they really pay attention with “aquamarine, teal, emerald, viridian, vermillion, rose, ruby”?

How do this character’s hobbies affect how well they can describe dance moves, painting styles, car models, music genres?

This mostly matters when you’re head-hopping and the voice of the narrator serves to be more distinct, otherwise, what’s the point of head-hopping? Just use third-person omniscient.

If you really want to go wild, give a specific narrator unique syntax. Maybe one character is the ghost of Oscar Wild with never-ending run-on sentences. Just be sure to not go too overboard and compromise the integrity of your story.

In the book A Lesson Before Dying, a somewhat illiterate, underprivileged and undereducated minor has been given a mentor, a teacher, before they face the death penalty. At the end of the book, you read all of the letters they wrote to their teacher. There’s misspellings everywhere, almost no punctuation, and long, rambling sentences.

It’s heartbreaking. The subject matter is heavy and horrible, yes, but it’s the choice to write with such poor English that has a much bigger impact than perfect MLA format.

How to implement these details

Most of these, in the written medium, need only show up once or twice before your audience notices and wonders why they’re there. Most fall squarely under character design, which falls under exposition, and should follow all the exposition guidelines.

These details exist to be random and fluffy, but they can’t exist randomly within the narrative. If you want to have your character be superstitious, pick a relevant time to include that superstition.

Others, like ongoing speech habits or movements, still don’t overuse, especially if they’re unique. A character might like to sit backwards in a chair, but if you mention that they’re doing it every single time they sit down, your audience will wonder what’s so important and if the character is unwell.

And, of course, you can let these traits become thematically important, like a superstition being central to their personality or backstory or motivation. These all serve the same purpose of making your character feel like a real person instead of just a “character”.

Just think about tossing in a few random details every now and then and see what happens. One tiny sentence can take a background character and make them candidates for the eventual fandom’s fan favorite. Details like these turn your work from “This a story, and these are the characters who tell it” into “these are my characters, and this is their story.”

#writing advice #character design #writing tips #writing resources #exposition #writing tools #writing a book

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theoi-crow · 4 months ago

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The chess game between Medea and Jason and how Medea's original story is a feminist story:

So a few days ago I was talking to @teawiththegods about a book he had read that was a feminist re-telling of Medea. The author seemed to have lacked a very fundamental understanding of Medea's character because Hecate wasn't mentioned in the book at all, which is wild since Hecate is Medea's go-to goddess for every spell she does!

But as we talked further it was clear the author also lacked a very fundamental understanding of Medea and Jason's relationship towards the end of their separation but it's one of my favorite parts of Medea's story which, in my opinion, makes it feminist by itself but not many people understand that because they lack the ancient context for which it was written that drives the point that:

Medea won a chess game where the odds were stacked in favor of Jason and the game was rigged against Medea herself:

How were the odds of the game stacked in favor of Jason:

1) Medea couldn't kill Jason or he'd win:

One of the main things people complain about regarding the story of Medea is Medea killing her children and wonder why she didn't just kill Jason instead. But the reason why she didn't do that, and why she couldn't kill Jason at all was because she would have immortalized Jason's heroic persona.

In ancient Greece they believed the best thing someone famous could do was die at the height of their popularity so they wouldn't have time to ruin their own reputation and legacy. At the beginning of Euripides's Medea, Jason is at the height of his popularity. This is evident by the king of Corinth wanting him to marry his daughter because he was the legendary Jason from Jason and the Argonauts (the ancient equivalent of being the modern leader of the Avengers since he also assembled legendary heroes in his ship like Hercules and Orpheus).

Jason knew he had the upper hand and if Medea killed him, he would forever be remembered as a hero who was tragically killed by his jealous wife (in the same way Agamemnon was killed by his own wife Clytemnestra) and Medea herself already had a bad reputation for killing her own brother, despite her only doing so to help Jason escape her father.

2) If she killed Jason, her own children would have to kill her:

Her children would be bound by the gods to kill her and if they did kill her, the furies would come to torment them for killing their own mother.

In Aeschylus's Oresteia, written a good 20 plus years before Euripides's Medea, One of the main tragic points in the story was Orestes being duty-bound to avenge his father which meant he had to kill his mother. In ancient society this was a rule. Children, especially sons, needing to avenge their parents, especially their fathers, so Jason knew that if Medea killed him, not only would she ensure his heroic legacy, but the ones in charge of carrying out his revenge were his sons, the keepers of his legacy, who were also the great-grandchildren of Helios (Medea's father was his son).

Medea preferred living with the guilt of killing her own children rather than the thought of forcing her own children to kill her and be forever tormented by the furies if they did, or be punished by the gods for not avenging their father if they did not. She had already killed her own family member for Jason before, so killing again for Jason would be a type of dramatic irony that now also affected him.

3) If she did nothing Jason would still win:

When I say Jason had everything, I mean he had everything. He was going to become the king of Corinth and live his life as a hero.

Medea is the reason behind him getting the golden fleece and she is the power behind all of his success and he was going to take her credit and cast her out of his new kingdom along with their children. He didn't care if his children were going to be bound to a woman who had a cursed reputation and be doomed to living a life of extreme poverty. He only cared about getting rid of his previous family to make room for a royal family, in his opinion, a proper life fit for a hero. He was Hera's favorite and even Medea could see that he had insulted Hera (the goddess of marriage) by not honoring his own marriage vows to her. Jason was being selfish and Medea couldn't let him just get everything he wanted.

Imagine working so hard to help someone you loved and trusted and you sacrifice your own comfortable and cushy life only for them to steal your credit, take all of your stuff and curse you to a life of poverty, and despite how he fucked you and your children over, your children still had to praise their father because they are bound to his legacy! He is the reason why you are irrelevant and no one will ever remember you except as a stepping stone for HIS success!

Jason took Medea's credit, used her as a stepping stone to reach his heroic status and had children with her who were a part of taking care of his legacy and bound to avenge him if she killed him. But if she chose not to do anything to him he would win either way and his legacy was set to be praised forever, this time as a king who could continue to expand his legacy and potentially turn into a god like Hercules. There was nothing she could do about it.

How she won and ruined his legacy and reputation:

1) Using her status as Jason's property:

Like most ancient Greek women, Medea was seen as Jason's property which made her his responsibility.

A lot of people think it was unnecessary for her to have killed the princess of Corinth because it wasn't the princess's fault who her father wanted her to marry but Medea was trying to kill the king of Corinth himself and she knew he was going to hold his dying daughter without realizing he too would get killed through the poisoned garments. Plus Medea knew the princess of Corinth wanted to exile her children with her and doom them to a tragic life which is why she sent her children with gifts from Helios in order to beg the princess to change her mind about exiling them.

What would killing the king and his daughter do to Jason? He would be blamed for not knowing how to "handle" his woman and "control" her, as was expected of men back then. Her outbursts were his responsibility.

Her killing the leader of Corinth and his only successor made Corinth vulnerable for another kingdom to invade. As Jason's property this made Jason the reason behind Corinth's downfall, thus causing Jason to be known as a cursed hero who will ruin your city-state if you try to associate with him or even welcome him into your home.

2) Jason depended on his children to fix his reputation:

Did Medea have to kill her children? Yes, because she knew that if she didn't whether they wanted to or not, they would undo everything she had done to ruin him because when ancient Greek people did well their fathers would also be praised because their father's names were used as a last name for the child for example: Odysseus's full name is actually Odysseus son of Laertes and thus in the ancient world whenever you praised Odysseus you were also praising his father Laertes.

Similarly, Jason's children had a duty to fix their father's reputation which means that if she allowed them to live, they would also do their best to uphold his reputation and undo everything and Jason would still win. Even if they didn't like him or they didn't' want to they had to. Plus already being the great-grandchildren of Helios, the sun itself meant they were already great, which meant their father was already great because they had "son of Jason" attached to their names as a last name.

So imagine your ex has ruined your life because before he came into your life you were the princess of Colchis, the granddaughter of the sun itself, your father was a demigod and your aunt was Circe! The same Circe who turned Odysseus's men into pigs. You had everything and you left your glamorous life because you fell in love with someone who stole your credit, used your ancestral connections to Helios and ultimately betrayed you. And now that you found a way to ruin him in order to avenge yourself, your own children, regardless of their own complicated feelings towards their father would have to undo everything you did and uphold his legacy as a hero so he still won. But killing them would ensure your ex will be seen as a walking bad omen and ruin his reputation forever.

3) Killing her children sealed Jason's fate:

Jason never expected Medea to kill her own children, no one did because no woman had ever done that before but Medea herself was already a walking curse, she knew that if she killed her children the world would pity them and never blame them for what she did but if she allowed them to live they would be at odds with her because of how society favored fathers plus she also risked ruining their reputation and living a miserable life anyway because of her own reputation.

Being exiled meant they would potentially have faced a lot of SA as children who are doomed to wander and potentially live as slaves if they got kidnapped. Medea herself would have to be a sex worker if she wanted to make money to support her children as a single parent while Jason lived a glamorous life as the king of Corinth.

If she killed Jason they would have to kill her no matter how much they loved her or they would be cursed by the gods.

If they live they would automatically fix Jason's reputation if they gained glory and would have to blame their mother in order to explain why their father, the hero, was cursed. No one would care that Jason stole her credit and she was angry about it because they were married and according to their customs, she is his property and her credit is his credit.

But if Medea killed them, they would not be blamed for anything, they wouldn't be used as pawns to fix Jason's reputation and Jason would also be blamed for not knowing how to "handle" his wife and save his children, and Medea would finally get the revenge she has been wanting for every wrong Jason has ever committed. He would finally feel the pain she felt from his betrayal. He would finally feel as helpless as this game of chess made her feel. He would finally suffer in the way he made her suffer.

In the end she cursed him to live a life where his reputation was ruined and when he finally became irrelevant, he died being killed by the rotting wood of the very same ship which once made him great.

Checkmate.

#Medea #greek gods #greek mythology #greek myths #jason and the argonauts #Jason #jason and medea #greek tragedy #ancient greek tragedy #long post

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throwawayasoiafaccount · 2 months ago

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Why do you think the tides have slightly turned from "Elia deserves better than Rhaegar" to shipping her and Rhaegar together? Like what is the psychology behind these people because I've seen some of them like/reblog anti Rhaegar posts while also shipping Rhaegar x Elia at the same time.

hey anon! my thoughts are a bit messy, but i’ve done my best to explain them coherently :)

so, rhaegar was the best man anyone could have when elia was alive, and most people want the best for their favs. he was considered the most handsome, didn’t have a bad personality, and he was crown prince—meaning elia was almost queen, which is often seen as the greatest role a woman can have. the narrative also treats rhaegar as a beautiful, tragic, haunting figure, and elia actually had this very aesthetically pleasing man all to herself at one point! she was married to him, had children with him, and her life was so close to perfect! but rhaegar just had to go and ruin it. 😠

for many elia stans, if rhaegar hadn’t fallen in love with another woman (they want him to have been a completely different character), then everything would’ve been perfect, and elia would’ve had the best, most desirable life. however, that’s not what happened—elia met a very tragic end, and as a result, these stans feel double the bitterness. because of this bitterness, they blame rhaegar for everything (even though it’s not logical to do so), but he’s just too ‘perfect’ to let go of. so, for years these stans have made rhaegar revolve around elia, filling his tag with posts about her out of bitterness. so, i do believe that this obsession with rhaegar x elia has always been there, but i think it’s become a more favorable stance on the elia stan side of the fandom because of a mix of reasons.

plus, rhaegar is one of the few canon relationships we know elia had, since she’s not much of a character. because of this, and the fact that most people don’t like to stray too far from canon, most elia stans are forced to focus on rhaegar, which has created an echo chamber. basically, if a sentiment about elia and rhaegar’s relationship becomes popular, then the whole elia stan side of the fandom will likely regurgitate the sentiment. (also, this desire to stick close to canon is likely why the elia x arthur ship was so popular. while it’s a total crack ship, it had good aesthetics, and since elia and arthur at least knew each other, it allowed the stans to create their perfect fanfiction whilst sticking it to rhaegar. but remember, elia was actually married to rhaegar and had children with him, so while arthur is cool, rhaegar was always ‘top dog,’ meaning arthur would never be able to match up to rhaegar to most elia stans. also, the arthur x elia crack ship is likely her second most popular ship, which just shows how little elia stans have to work with, so they’re always forced to eventually return back to rhaegar for a lot of things.)

however, even if the elia x rhaegar ship gains more popularity, these stans will never stop hating rhaegar because he wasn’t ‘perfect’—and he wasn’t perfect because he didn’t love elia. plus, rhaegar loving another woman and supposedly kidnapping her is what began the war that led to elia’s tragic death. that’s bitterness times 1000. and while i don’t actually blame rhaegar for the war, i do think that this is how an elia stan sees it. i also don’t view rhaegar’s complex relationship with elia as a bad thing—it’s actually a very realistic take on an arranged marriage between two decent people. but most elia stans will never be able to get over the fact that they almost had everything, which is why many have it out for lyanna, as they consider her a thief who ruined their ‘perfection.’

tbh, that might be why so many elia stans are so obsessed with the idea that rhaegar only got with lyanna because of the prophecy—they don’t want to believe that rhaegar actually loved a different woman and not their perfect self insert elia. that’s a bit mean of me… but i don’t know what else one would call the ‘elia’ elia stans have created.

now that i’ve laid all those thoughts out, i’ll try to explain why the tides seem to be turning… i think it may have something to do with the ‘targaryens are all evil and bad’ sentiment losing popularity. i think this shift has occurred due to a mix of factors, such as years of fandom fights and fandom cycles leading to the targs being more liked now than before. it helps that canon doesn’t actually condemn the targs/favors them quite a bit, and the influx of new targ fans from HOTD has also contributed. this combination of reasons seems to have shifted the way the mainstream fandom discusses all the targaryen characters, including rhaegar. so, with this shift, it’s only natural that some elia stans/elia x rhaegar shippers—who’ve always been there—are using this opportunity to push their agenda. while these stans still hate rhaegar and see him as the bad guy, they just can’t let go of him. and as the mainstream fandom moves away from the anti targaryen sentiment, these smaller corners of the fandom, which tend to be echo chambers, are also affected, which has therefore led to a rise in rhaegar x elia shippers and the ‘shifting tide’ that you’ve also noticed.

#‘if only rhaegar did this’ is a very common sentiment amongst elia stans #most stans have always had the ‘if only’ mindset #‘if only elia survived’ easily leads to ‘if only rhaegar didn’t run off with his whore’ as the targs become less hated #it’s kinda a pipeline? rhaegar anti plus elia stan leads to rhaegar x elia shipper who still hates rhaegar #another reason that a lot of this happens is because elia and the martells plus dorne are the good ‘others’ a person can like #while the targaryens are the ‘bad others’ one can safely hate as they’re white & have a bit of demon symbolism + come from an ‘evil’ empire #the targs also ruled over everyone so a lot of fans like pushing all the blame onto them for all the problems #however the targs are cool and they’re hot af and being royalty is the best! so they’re the ‘bad others’ one can safely hate #but people still want their aesthetic and want their favs to have what the targs had. all the cool magic + the aesthetic + danys monikers #so people can convince themselves that it’s okay and logical and right to hate the targs but most ppl will still connect their favs to them #of course… things have been shifting in the fandom which i’m very happy about #and all of these sentiments are combined and compressed when it comes to rhaegar and elias relationship #so any big shift on how the fandom views the targs will always affect the way rhaegar and elias relationship is viewed #it just so happens that the targs aren’t the evil dragon nazis anymore so it’s kinda okay for elia stans to ship him with her #i’m not gonna go through my tags and make sure they make sense so i’m simply hoping for the best #anyways… i hope i didn’t digress too much. i just found this shift so interesting so i couldn’t help myself #asoiaf fandom critical #anti elia stans #rhaegar targaryen #anti rhaegar x elia #house targaryen #valyrianscrolls #pro rhaelya #lyanna stark #rhaegar x lyanna #anon ask #thanks anon this was a fun topic to cover #i recently found a really old post about both elia and lyanna and boy… it was quite discusting to read #elia stans kinda cycle from ‘elia deserved better x crack ship with shallow aesthetic’ back to elia x rhaegar while shitting on rhaelya #just know that rhaegar is always the bad guy to them! the sentiment on lyanna will go from hot to cold but rhaelya is always bad as well!

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