#(it's not that i don't have a lot of people rooting for me...i do!)

[luckyladylily]

So like, transandrophobia.

To start this out, I am a trans woman, been around in the queer community for a while. I'm also bisexuality, polyamorous, disabled, and aromantic, and I think these other parts of my identity and the crap I've caught over the years for them heavily informs how I analyze something like transandrophobia. My wife is also asexual, so that plays a part in it too.

So every group of marginalized people has their own unique experiences and problems. It's more of a rule than something we've mathematically demonstrated, but as far as these things go it's ridiculously well established, and personally every time I've done even a basic dive into the issues faced by a marginalized group it's been self evident. I could easily list a dozen groups ranging from racial minorities to different kinds of disabled people to different queer identities and analyze their social issues but let's be real, this is pretty well established theory, anyone who needs me to do that is not really interacting with good faith. This is one of the big reasons we talk to people about their own experiences and groups, we cannot reasonably extrapolate the experiences of others from our own.

So like trans men and trans mascs and anyone else that falls under that umbrella has their unique experiences. The idea that we would even question this is weird to me? Like I can't even imagine the kind of evidence someone would need to present to me to change my mind, and given the pattern of the queer community to be shitty in exactly this way to people in our community, yeah that is not happening.

Therefore, we are taking it for granted that the trans men/masc/related umbrella has their own things going on like everyone else ever, and I don't understand how someone acting in good faith can try to claim otherwise unless they are young or otherwise very inexperienced with such things.

The next point of contention seems to be the name, and I gotta be real I don't care and I don't understand why other people do. I've read all sorts of arguments against the word transandrophobia and the majority of them seem to be rooted in a misunderstanding of intersectionality, and even then it's like there is such a thing where people get so mired in theory that they miss the forest for the trees.

Perhaps more important to me, getting overly worked up about something as unimportant as the precise term is... weird. Like exclusionists hating on bi and ace people weird. I remember what it was like a decade ago when exclusionists were trying to police the words of bi women, and five years ago when ace and aro people were under constant attack under the pretense that our language was harmful for some reason or other. You are going to have to work very, very, very hard to convince me that any bickering over language as it relates to transandrophobia is not just more of the same.

Next, "transandrobros hate trans femmes" and similar stuff. I've seen the callout posts and found them completely unconvincing. Again, they read a lot like the old "ace people hate lesbians!" posts I used to see. I'm not convinced that the individuals involved were a problem, I am certainly not able to extrapolate a problem to the rest of the group.

Finally, there is this idea that "maleness is not a vector for oppression" and this invalidates something about the whole transandrophobia thing, ranging from the entire concept of trans men experiencing prejudice to something about language being imprecise all the way to "This is fascist shit, omg these people are basically nazis" depending on who says it. I'm not going to touch any of that and just look at the underlying logic.

This is based off a misunderstanding of intersectionality theory. Many people think of intersectionality as defining intersecting prejudice, like a ven diagram, such that transmisogyny is the intersection of transphobia and misogyny. This is incorrect. Intersectionality defines unique prejudice experienced by people with intersecting identities. Instead of a transmisogyny as the overlap of transphobia and misogyny, imagine adding a third circle that overlaps both but also has its own areas covered by neither.

Applied to transandrophobia, even if we assume maleness is not a vector for oppression, there is no reason to assume that the intersection of maleness with a marginalized identity doesn't result in new issues. Imagine that 3 circle venn diagram that represents misogyny, transphobia, and transmisogyny. Even if you remove the misogyny circle there is still plenty of ground covered by the transmisogyny circle.

This just isn't a valid criticism. It is a pure theory approach based on a flawed reading of theory.

So in summary:

Everyone has their unique shit going on and I've seen no convincing evidence that trans men, mascs, etc. Are the exception.

I not seen any convincing argument that the word itself is bad.

I've not seen any convincing evidence that there is some epidemic of transandrophobia truthers hating and harassing trans femmes on scales higher than normal background queer infighting.

The most coherent objection to transandrophobia I've seen is categorically incorrect and based on a fundamental misunderstanding of intersectionality theory.

I would like to remind everyone at this point I am a trans woman, part of the group that is supposedly a problem for and I've just not see it at all, to the point where it is kind of weird how intensely some people are pushing this.

I'm not trying to be mean or whatever, I'm sure the distress on display here comes from a real place and real trauma, but I've yet to see anything that makes me think there is substance to the objections to transandrophobia as a concept. It feels and reads like the latest round of queer intracommunity exclusionism, and the fact that this time around I'm not one of the target identities doesn't change that for me.

[thebroccolination]

Hi Key, your post is the second I've seen that hinted at Joss but without further explanation. He generally has a positive public perception and I only know him from 3WBF (which I liked), so I'm curious where this shift in perception is coming from recently.

Would you mind making a post or directing me to where I can learn more about his general...situation.

I apologize if this is intrusive since I know you don't like to engage in Fandom Drama and like to keep your space positive, but I don't have XTwitter and his Tumblr tag is usually quite dead.

Thank you in advance!

Why I Don't Fuck with Joss: An Extremely Academic Essay of Words and Screenshots

Hi Anon!

I normally would have DM'd you an answer to this, but since you sent the ask anonymously and you were very kind in how you asked, I didn't want to ignore you.

However, two things:

I do generally make it a policy to keep my negative personal thoughts about certain actors to private conversations or, y'know, Discord servers, just to keep it off public platforms where toxicity is already rampant. In this case, though, I think the situation is interesting enough to comment on. (Plus, y'know, I'm amazed he was even managing a comeback when he's been known to Be Like This for years.)

I didn't get a lot of primary sources for this post because quite frankly I don't like Joss and I don't want to look at his face any more than I already have. However, friends who've been following this more closely than I have were able to verify that there are sources out there for everything I'm going to mention. Just, y'know, don't use me or this post as a source. This isn't one of my Citations Included Posts, this is just a Why I Don't Fuck with This Guy Post.

So, for context, I made this post last month, and someone made a more explicitly worded reblog here that's honestly better if you're going in without any context.

Essentially, Joss has had a dodgy reputation for years, but I think because fan turnover is high in interfandom and he's never been in a BL series before, most interfans just know Joss as A Tall Man Who Likes Sportsball.

But when I got into Thai BL back in 2020, Joss was one of the first actors I heard of as ~Problematique~ so I looked into him, and what I learned made me go, "Ew," so I just keenly ignored him from then on. (General gross stuff like the Domundi boob-grabbing prank and some assorted Dudebro comments about women. I don't remember specifics anymore because he was barely on my radar, but a friend at the time who'd been in fandom longer basically told me, "Yeah, that's Joss, lol.")

Interestingly, before JossGawin became a thing, most interfans were rooting for JossLuke, but I think given how vocally left-leaning Luke has proven to be, I wouldn't be surprised if Luke saw the prospect of tying his public reputation to Joss and went, "lol no goddamn thank you."

Gawin, on the other hand, seems to be down for whatever GMMTV wants him to do, so he probably just sees Joss as a colleague he makes out with (acting is a weird job). He went to high school in western Pennsylvania, he has white relatives on his dad's side, and he hangs out with the Gym Dudes of GMMTV, so I'm sure he's completely desensitized and is one of those guys who thinks, "Nah," but doesn't go so far as to say, "Not cool, dude." The Gawin Caskey Method seems to be: throw a basketball, make out with a dude on camera, go home and eat an edible. Dismount.

Unfortunately, even though Gawin's never really made any political statements or taken any major stand for the queer community, he's gained goodwill that some people are now calling into question because of Joss.

Anyway, apparently Joss used to follow Andrew Tate on Twitter until Tate was suspended, so it seems a lot of people assumed Joss unfollowed Tate, but yeah, between the sexist comments, Boobgate, and admiring Joe Rogan, that was enough for me to physically recoil from the screen when I saw the teaser for MGB.

Okay NOW, everything from this point onward is new stuff I've learned over the past month that made me go, "Oh. So he's worse now."

Joss has apparently had that Joe Rogan quote pinned to his Twitter account since 2020, but people just shrugged it off because they like his man stomach or something? (I don't find him attractive, but even if I did, I truly don't understand how he made it this far. It feels like he's been pretty firmly canceled every year since I got here, honestly.)

I also didn't like him weight-shaming Gawin. There's some older clip of him calling Gawin fat, and I know in Asia it's more common to comment on other people's bodies and weight, but I also recently found out that he got Gawin a meat cake for his birthday because idk actual cake is for pussies? (Sorry, Anon, I was trying to aim for an objective tone but I abandoned it because I reeeally don't like this man.) And apparently a lot of JG fanservice is just Joss and Gawin at the gym so Joss can teach Gawin self-control or something? I've had their tag blocked from the beginning, so you'll have to look into that if you're curious.

Ah, and at some point in the last few months, Joss was apparently asked what his "type" is and he said something like "white, skinny English-speaking Europeans/Americans"(?) Which apparently made Asian women go, "Hey, c'mere real quick: good. Bye."

I also thought it was a huge red flag that Joss has been in the industry for years, and his domestic fanbase is still quite small. Others have pointed out that very few fan interactions with him are in Thai, and he's clearly courting a western audience both in his individual engagement and by partnering with a mixed American actor. When he did the LGBTQ+ panel last summer, apparently the reaction from Thai commenters was, "lmao why Joss?" not, "Oh yes, of course, Joss!"

So it seems like GMMTV has been trying to do a rebrand for Joss using Gawin and interfans more generally since Joss speaks English and interfans don't generally seek out the resources to do research. Remember last year when GMMTV announced that Y-MIND script competition? It was originally domestic only, but after Thai fans overwhelmingly went, "The contract terms here are wildly exploitative, so fuck off," GMMTV rereleased the promotional material in English and went, "HEY INTERFANS WANNA SEND US STUFF :D?"

That told me they really don't think especially highly of us.

On December 15th, someone pointed out that Joss didn't just follow Trump on Twitter, he also followed a ton of extreme alt-right accounts on Instagram. Not normal political figures, either. Obscure figures like Pearl, Candace Owens, that guy who was saying Your Body My Choice, and Andrew Tate's right-hand man, and more! Some of his fans tried to point out that he follows progressive Thai politicians, but as far as the American side, he only followed alt-right conservative accounts with zero liberal accounts.

Though, in fairness, someone did point out that Joss also follows famous progressive Democratic figures [checks notes] comedian Chris Rock and basketball player Stephen Curry.

So. Whoohoo for that, amirite?

Since Joss's fans weren't having much success defending him on their own, they threw some @'s at his account to get him to make some kind of statement that would somehow explain away why he was following a deep, deep alt-right fanatic like Pearl. (Spoiler: He didn't.)

The JossGawin International fan club even released the above statement to address the issue, then received such alarmingly vitriolic backlash from the JossGawin fandom for "betraying" Joss that the fanclub decided to deactivate entirely. (I have no idea if they reactivated or not, since I stopped keeping up with this whole debacle shortly afterward.)

One Thai(?) JossGawin fan actually seems to have used ChatGPT to create an English comment to chastise the fanclub for their lack of support in Joss's dire times:

Amusingly, rather than address his fans' concerns or unfollow any of the accounts causing the chaos, Joss instead just started deleting any comment on his Instagram that called on him to comment.

Five days later, he unfollowed 137 accounts. No idea how many of those were alt-right extremists and how many were just extra padding to make it look like a general cleanse, but it was at least fifty last I heard, and the fact that 1) it took him nearly a week to do anything but delete the comments calling him out, and 2) his first tweet after this whole mess was a quote-retweet of GMMTV's message welcoming Barcode into the company saying, "lol this kid looks like if me and Gawin had a baby" just goes to show how unthreatened he feels.

After all, Joss has been this way for years, and his upcoming series with Gawin is probably going to do numbers regardless. He's successfully rebuilt his stagnant career off the support of interfans, and he knows he'll be fine.

Even Foei has a show with Tay! We're all good here. \:D/

So yeah! That's why I don't fuck with Joss. \:D/

This'll be the last I say on Joss publicly.

I just figured I'd make one all-encompassing post so I can link back to this in case anyone asks why I'm not supporting any of Gawin's projects with Joss. It's a shame because I do really like Gawin, but this isn't even a hard choice for me to make.

Oh, and while we're on the subject: the director of MGB, Ark, is also Not a Good Dude by all accounts I've heard from multiple people who've interacted with him privately. I mean, he sure is queer, but he's also said to be a misogynist with some white-people-worshipping tendencies. He doesn't have the highest opinion of BL fandom in general, either, especially when you look back on his whole direction of IT'S NOT A BL Shadow. Just, y'know, another reminder that queer people aren't Virtuous or Evil by nature. We're a big ole clusterfuck of nuance, so you don't have to support MGB for Ark just because he's a queer man. I have zero proof that I can share publicly, so you don't have to take my word for it. Just, y'know, in case you were on the fence, I've heard he's a dick.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go write absolutely filthy gay porn to purify myself from writing Joss's name so many times.

[cosmicjoke]

Do you think Levi is really the perfect example of a partner/bf that fangirls say he is?

Well, I'm always hesitant to talk about Levi in relation to romance on any level, to be honest, because it's just not a part of his character. He shows no romantic interest in anyone, at any point, so I think that's part of what makes Levi so appealing to shippers in general, beyond his general appeal as a character. Because Levi isn't ever actually paired with or shown to have romantic feelings toward anyone, it's easy to project ones own, individual fantasies onto him. So you get a lot of self-shipping, or shipping him with other characters from the story, or LeviXreader fics, etc...

I tend to personally think Levi is too lacking in self-interest to pursue a romantic relationship. I know that's a weird thing to say, but Levi is a character that lives for other people. Instead of having dreams of his own, he carries and fights for the dreams of others. He's willing to sacrifice his own well-being if it means giving a better life to others. That isn't to say Levi doesn't have any personal interests or desires of his own, but he's just someone who's always going to put those things on the back burner for the sake of someone else. Romantic relationships, by their very nature, are defined by mutual give and take. By a shared self-interest. You expect your romantic partner to give you something, and you, in turn, give them something, etc... It's about compromise, being willing to compromise for them, and expecting them to be willing to compromise for you. I think Levi is so selfless that seeking out a romantic partner for self-fulfillment, like most people do, isn't something that would really come naturally to him. His lack of interest in romance strikes me as a lack of interest in himself, or rather, as a lack of interest in gaining something for himself. Most people seek out romantic partners because they don't want to be alone, because they want someone they can talk to, relate to, that they can be with and share things with, etc... I think Levi is distinctly uninterested in any of that sort of thing.

Again, not to say Levi doesn't like or want to be around people. The very fact he ends up, again and again, with people that are essentially surrogate families to him (Furlan and Isabel, Erwin and Hange, Gabi and Falco), tells me Levi actually is naturally drawn toward being with people. But, again, it isn't for the usual reasons that most people are. Again, most people seek out partners or people to start a family with because they personally want that for themselves. There's a level of self-interest involved there. With Levi, I think he just sort of ends up with people in his life, not because he's particularly seeking that out, but because people are drawn to him. They sense what a kind and caring person he really is, after a time, and Levi, being so naturally inclined toward protecting and helping others, is always going to welcome them into his life and become someone they can rely upon.

In order to be with someone romantically, you have to seek that sort of relationship out. You have to actively attempt to find someone who will want to share that sort of relationship with you, and I just don't think Levi is that person. Again, because he just isn't self-interested enough, i.e. interested enough in his own advancement, to go looking for someone to be with. He'll take people in and provide for them and protect them, and be family to them, but once more, it's something rooted in his selfless nature, giving, but not really receiving, or at least, not expecting anything in return. Of course Levi's life is, I'm sure, enriched by having people in it, but it's not the motivation behind why or how he ends up with others.

Now how that relates to the question you asked, of whether Levi would be an ideal romantic partner, I guess that depends on what someone's notion of an ideal romantic partner would be.

There seems to generally be two extremes when it comes to characterizing Levi in romantic relationships. Either he's a forceful and dominate lover, or he's a submissive lover who wants to be dominated. There doesn't seem to be much room for nuance in most shipping discussions involving him, lol. Personally, I think if Levi was actually romantically involved with someone, he wouldn't be either of those things. The idea of Levi as being this forceful, even violent sexual partner is completely absurd to me, because we know how Levi grew up, what he saw happen to his mother, and his own experiences being threatened with sexual violence. If you understand anything about Levi, then you have to understand the thing that truly defines him, the thing that makes up the core of who he is, is his empathy. His ability to understand the thoughts and feelings of others. It's where Levi's compassion comes from. He's so compassionate because he has such a profound understanding of other people.

With that in mind, then, there's no way in hell Levi would ever be okay with committing sexual violence against anyone, man or woman. He would understand too well the devastating consequences of that, again, because of his experiences growing up, and because of his empathy, his ability to understand what others are experiencing and the consequences of specific actions on them. Levi isn't someone who's going to witness the consequences of sexual violence on victims of it, and come away from that wanting or willing to commit the same violence himself. He's going to do the opposite. Again, because of his exceptional empathy. He'll understand that sex isn't something to be forced on anyone, because he's seen what that actually does to people, and his empathy, and the compassion that stems from it, renders him too sensitive to the feelings of people to be able to disregard those feelings, intentionally or otherwise. Levi just feels too deeply and cares too much about people to do anything to them that he's aware will hurt them when they don't deserve to be hurt.

So if Levi were to be with someone romantically, I think the undeniably more likely scenario would be that he would be kind and caring and gentle. He might not always be "ideal", depending on what ones definition of an ideal romantic partner is. Levi isn't exactly the best at expressing himself or his own emotions. He probably wouldn't be the best conversation partner. But I do think he would be an excellent listener. Levi shows again and again that he's more aware of what people are feeling than anyone, and he always goes out of his way to make sure they know he's aware of it and does the best he can to support them, in whatever emotions or struggles they're going through. And I think Levi would do an excellent job of providing emotional support, even if he might not be the best at expressing verbal or physical emotional support. Any partner he was with would still, eventually, become aware that he truly does care about them and hears them and sees them, and takes their thoughts and feelings as seriously as he takes anything.

So, I think, Levi would be ideal in the sense that whoever he was with would, without question, come to know that he cared deeply about them, and they would feel that care from him all the time. Maybe not always in the most conventional ways. But they would know it's there, and they would never doubt it. Levi is truly, endlessly kind. It's just a matter of other people learning how that kindness in him manifests. It isn't always so obvious or blatant, but it's always there. You just have to know what to look for.

One thins is absolutely certain. Levi as a romantic partner would always take care of whoever he was with, the same way he always takes care of anyone in his life that he considers family. He's someone you could always depend on and trust. To me, I think that makes him pretty ideal.

[demigodseameg16]

..So not only are they bashing one of the few characters of color and saying a lot about themselves by how people are defending one of the few disabled characters, they also decided that being like Alya, when written by the RIGHT PEOPLE, a girl who is journalistic, loyal to her family and friends, clever, knows what is being put down and how to spin it to her advantage and to get to the actual truth, not just the pretty picture, is a bad thing.

*cracks knuckles*

Let's begin shall we?

Number one - The defense of Alya: Aren't we tired of this same old routine? I may not agree with some of Alya's actions (less on Alya's side, more on why they occured) but reading through those Instagram comments it seems like the only negative thing that's uniting them against Alya is because she's a dark skinned French-Martinique girl who made one mistake in believing Lila. To which I say, SHE IS A CHILD. She is obviously going to make mistakes on the path of her career, and in the end, she still came to Marinette's defense! She knew Marinette would never cheat and argued against her expulsion along with Adrien! She tried getting Marinette outside when she was depressed because she was picking up how her best friend was feeling long before her actual friend could put those feelings into words! She got akumatized for Marinette because she just wanted to understand her feelings and she was scared she was failing her first friend! Or did we forget that Alya is the new kid too, who probably moved from French-Martinique to a whole continent, in a place that speaks a different form of French, to which she may be criticized for her body shape and skin color because of beauty standards laid deep in society! And also because unlike other girls her age she's already so career driven and proud of being a nerd/geek! Alya is a middle child who shoulders a ton of responsibility, she takes care of her little sisters all while running her blog, which is the most used blog in Paris, while ALSO making sure her older sibling isn't pushing herself too hard. Her mom is a full time chef at one of the fanciest hotels in Paris, so that means she's going to be working overtime, and her dad is in charge of a whole zoo, so he's working weird hours too. And we are still bashing her because of an animation error? For her asking her friend for evidence of Lila's lies, a valid question for a reporter because she just can't take the words of a best friend because that would be bias? Just because Marinette was right that one time, doesn't mean she'll be right ALL the time. So if acting like Alya is a bad thing, I'll gladly be putting on my glasses more often and start wearing a fox miraculous.

Number two - The defense of Sublime: Ladies and gentlemen, enbies of the jury, what the actual fuck. Unless Lila, a girl from a Mediterranean region in Europe, who is a naturally tan skinned girl, decided to fully commit to the "disabled" bit and chop her legs off while bleaching her skin, all while switching her DNA from most likely Southern Italy to Belgium, a French speaking country with Germanic roots, I ask of you, what the actual fuck. That's too far, even for Astruc. We know Lila is capable of what Miraculous calls "masterful disguises", and apparently in the London special her hair was blonde and her eyes were violet, but she still had her natural skin and oh I don't know, HER LEGS? WE SAW HER LEGS, YES? We may not know what Lila's "true appearance" is, but I'm going to assume it's a girl with a healthy tan, and two working legs. Sublime is pale, and doesn't have those last two. That doesn't make her Lila, BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE HER A VILLAIN. And also, it rules her out of being Lila's accomplice, because she's been training for the Paralympics her whole life. Do you know how much training that requires? And she's doing TRACK for goodness sake. I once tried cross country only for the interest of throwing the javelin (I never got to throw the javelin). They had to sign me up for track first. My social schedule? Gone with the wind. My art time? Vanished like my dad. My rehearsal time? On life support. (Ironically, I was really good at all the stretches, and pretty fast for my condition of having, ya know, leg problems. I wouldn't be able to run with the team, but I did practices with them and I came to every meet and cheered them on and helped them stretch and got them water (and for that, I was not bullied because Track had my back. You never mess with the person who can perfectly get out a cramp in your leg, while also gives you water at the perfect temperature.)) Realistically girlie has no free time outside of that besides school, and people think she can be an ally to a supervillain SHE JUST MET? Because let me remind everyone, Sublime just moved to Paris, from Belgium. All while Hawkmoth was going down, she was in Belgium. She doesn't even know who these heroes ARE, let alone the villains.

Look, you are allowed to like who you like, and you are allowed to dislike who you dislike. But I draw the line at liking a character who basically supports a system that allows ableism, racism, harassment to run free, all in the name of her "vision". Because if Marinette is happy, then that's all that matters, right? It doesn't matter that there can be real life consequences to these type of things, for kids watching this show and seeing bad behavior being rewarded and that influencing their developmental skills, and for all those kids of color and disabled kids or combination of the both who see that they are the bad guys simply by existing in your standards, letting their feelings not be validated or be acknowledged all for some other person's happiness to be achieved. A person who is supposed to be a hero, an "inspiration for little girls everywhere". Except dark skinned girls. Oh, and disabled girls. And girls questioning their identity, whether it be heritage, gender or sexuality (because it's not just little kids who watch this show, tweens and teens watch it too). And girls that might have a bit more money than other people in your class, or girls who don't have as much money as others in your class. And for girls who aren't the standard beauty. And for boys who want a girl role model too? Sorry, you aren't important unless you are the sacrifice or love interest, preferably both. Yes, an inspiration to children everywhere indeed.

Bro as someone who uses a walking aid (a cane) and is disabled seeing the new trailer for Miraculous Ladybug makes me absolutely furious. I have never felt so much hatred for a fictional character before and yet here we are. I didn't like Marinette before but like, this just. This hits way too close to home and I know Astruc is going to frame it in a way that makes Marinette the good guy. But NOTHING excuses touching a disability aid without permission, especially fooling around with it and sabotaging it. And the fact that a younger generation is going to see this, I absolutely can't. I feel so bad for disabled children who will see this scene on TV and have their feelings be in the wrong, shown that they are the bad guys for getting upset, or heavens forbid being disabled. Screw you Astruc.

[bumblingbabooshka]

Thinking about marriage/women's rights on Vulcan Some may think that T'Pring not being allowed to divorce Spock was because he was going through the pon farr but if she were allowed to divorce him at all she probably would have done that a long time ago, confirmed by T'Pol when she's speaking with Koss, who isn't suffering from the pon farr. She says that he can choose another mate (without invoking a fight it seems: note the difference between a 'mate' and a 'challenger') and after he makes it clear that nothing she says will change his mind about marrying her, she finally threatens to declare a kal-if-fee. It's clear that Vulcan women cannot divorce/refuse to marry a man they've been betrothed to under any circumstances if A) He himself doesn't consent to ending their marriage or B) She doesn't have someone else waiting in the wings to be given to in his stead. Though, if the challenger she selects fails to win the fight, she'll have to marry her betrothed anyway unless (again) he decides he doesn't want her after the challenge. That seems like an incredibly unfair system, heavily biased towards men. SNW is an alternate universe in many obvious respects but most egregiously in that T'Pring has a lot of non-canonical agency over her relationship with Spock. It's interesting to me that Vulcan society has women in many positions of power and treats women as equal to men from what I've seen despite these laws. We don't really see Vulcans exhibiting a misogynistic attitude towards women in general but in TOS (perhaps because of its general writing style but it's still interesting to note) both Sarek and Spock take on patriarchal attitudes specifically regarding wives. Amanda says that 'of course' Sarek commands her because "he is a Vulcan and I am his wife." It's worthwhile in my eyes to note that she specifies 'wife' instead of attributing this attitude to women as a whole. Again, with TOS' writing style it wouldn't be out of place for her to say "he is a man and I am a woman." Spock, while in a pon farr induced irritation, states that it's "undignified for a woman to play servant to a man that isn't hers" - again implying that there's something specific about being a Wife in Vulcan society which is different from being a woman in general and demands subservience to a husband. This could perhaps stem from the extreme sense of ownership that Vulcan law has permitted men to have over women. A woman legally cannot point blank refuse marriage. There is no option which guarantees she won't have to marry her betrothed other than death. When T'Pau speaks of T'Pring she refers to her as being 'property' and Stonn, before being interrupted, states he's made 'the ancient claim' - we don't know what this is because he gets cut off but it's obvious they're both using the language of Vulcan law. Men are permitted true freedom to choose. If a woman wants to choose someone else to be with there is no option available to her other than the kal-if-fee which might result in the death of the one she wants to be with. And, if her lover fails, her husband can still just decide he wants to marry her and she'll be forced to. T'Pring gives two scenarios: One where Spock 'frees' her and one where he doesn't - it's still ultimately his decision which is clear when he ends the conversation with "Stonn, she is yours." This again isn't just because of the pon farr as T'Pol also goes through this. Koss can choose another mate and when the option is talked about there's no implication that this would result in any sort of fight (both by the casualness of its mention and by the fact that there's no formal word for it unlike the kal-if-fee.) Also, the fact that Koss does eventually grant T'Pol a divorce and it's all fine means that T'Pol isn't lawfully required to have another man waiting if her HUSBAND doesn't want her. It's ONLY required if SHE doesn't want her husband. Tradition must take precedence over individual desire UNLESS!!! You're a man. Then it's fine. Like, your parents might not be happy but legally you're golden.

[starheirxero]

Taps cheek. Must confess I feel like some people haven't been approaching the fandom the way I have, and I am sorely realizing this now.

Y'all, the VAs here see you. If you are publically posting hate about a character–especially in the main tags or in their inbox–there is a very real chance that the person who plays that character will see you. They are not disconnected entities that hover above everything in their own fandom, they engage in it. They have strong feelings about their own characters too, they made them. And everyone being excessively foul about them and their character is not the kinda takeaway they wanna see!!

So. Perhaps. It would be more constructive for people to either learn to be nicer or to just shut up if I'm being quite honest.

[mlobsters]

taking the question in good faith, I will answer in good faith. saw people are being assholes in the reblogs about misha's appearance, which is bullshit, regardless of my feelings on him as a person.

appreciate the points above and will add some thoughts of my own. I went into the show knowing destiel was a huge and popular ship, but not knowing much else. I watched the show in a relative bubble over a year plus. I was already deeply invested in sam and dean's canonical relationship and the wincest ship side of things by the time castiel showed up. I had a friend that was waiting to hear my thoughts on him and it took me a long time to even have an opinion. and by the time I did, it tended toward negative. I liked when he was snarky and powerful but his characterization flip flopped all over the place episode to episode the longer he was on the show. as I was writing up my little recaps I would often boggle over how the show would talk about how dean and cas were best friends and so close, but I (and might be bold to say we the audience) never saw it. he just wasn't around much! supernatural, when it wants to make a point or a parallel, is not subtle about it. it will beat you over the head with their point. I guess the only thing they were hammering home to me was, we aren't gonna take the screen time to show it but these guys are tight, trust us! it was weird to me.

I wrote about my reaction to 15x18 here which was basically where flying fuck did that come from

the longer his character stuck around, the more it reminded me of derek on teen wolf. a fan favorite character that it felt like they didn't intend to have on the show for very long and didn't know what to do with. but the teen wolf run was much shorter and hoechlin left. and I also found some similarities in how popular the ship sterek was, they were similarly working with crumbs of canon. but I didn't see that fandom get weird about it the way certain factions of destiel fans did. maybe they did and just weren't as loud? or since I wasn't around when it was at its peak I didn't see it? but I never got the impression there was this full court press by some to convince people that the ship had roots in canon people were just missing.

I was really soured on supernatural fandom in general by how loudly anti-wincest a lot of people are, I used to go scrolling through the main tags and regularly bump into wincest dni on, you know, gifsets from the show. which is strange and also like okay, yeah. message received, I don't want to be feeling shitty and unwelcome just trying to look around. I understand it's a squick for some people, but I've never been around a fandom that was so loudly hostile to a ship unprovoked.

and equal opportunity souring, within non-destiel fans there's people that hate one of the brothers, making arguments how canonically abusive one of them is, etc. I think that's what a lot of it comes down to for me, headcanon being stated as canon fact. there's always wiggle room in interpretation but so many things are so far outside the show I watched, I just get all riled up which helps no one so I stay away from most show/character discussions at this point.

and if I wasn't already soured on destiel enough, some of things misha has said downright left me appalled. the "balls deep" homophobic cw bullshit comment, joking about jensen's "bdsm paraphernalia." I personally think if most anyone else on the cast talked like this at cons, they wouldn't be invited back. but I guess it's okay with everyone involved or whatever is going on there, so I just try to avoid misha related content in general.

it's a bummer that I'm missing out on destiel fic because there's so much of it, but I wouldn't be able to enjoy it.

I was rereading my sterek bookmarks recently (my personal favorite ship on teen wolf is scott/stiles but there's very little of it comparatively) and now that I'm out of the thick of my tw fixation period, I notice how out of character they often need to push to make the story work. and that's totally fine and cool, but the way my brain works, I'm much more interested and invested in the ship that I see reflected on screen. even while actively wanting and looking for the sterek potential in the show, there just wasn't much of it. that was the one thing that did surprise me, how little fans were working with. I love the creativity and the way they've made so much with so little.

so I'm sure I could have enjoyed destiel fic at one point in the same way I did sterek if I was never exposed to spn fandom outside of AO3.

these days I make stuff for fandoms and read fic, but otherwise don't really engage with other people's stuff. I follow a few spn people that I know I vibe with, but that's about it. I'm too literal minded in some ways and inflexible about certain things, it's just best I stay away from most stuff.

and I usually avoid engaging in this type of post too but guess I had some things that have been bubbling around my head for a while that I wanted to get out

Non Destiel Shippers, what stops you from shipping them?

What are the reasons you don't ship them? Im just curious, not looking for a fight.

[amelikos]

Thinking about the portrayal of ancestry in Horizons.

[rutadales]

people who participate in hate-fandoms need to get an actual hobby I'm so serious 😭 not to be a hater but for the love of God log off. genuinely humiliating to be spending that much time caring about something that makes you so miserable that is ultimately so meaningless

[mimsypoo]

(i also see smithers as transfem, i use she/he interchangeably due to my headcanons on how gender feels for her. hope u don't mind 👍)

i don't have time to respond to all of your individual points, but i will say a bit.

"just because it doesn't revolve around your ship." firstly, please don't condescend to me like that. yes, i enjoy burnsmithers, but that's not really the point i was making here. anyone who knows me personally will know that i don't care that much about canon/canon ships. even with burns and smithers, i don't actually think about them getting together very often. i like it, but i don't need it. my attention towards the ship comes more from the fact that i like both of them a lot individually, so it's convenient to have them in a little package like that. (and i like seeing smithers win.)

i am glad that you are able to personally enjoy and accept the characterization of smithers in more recent material, i truly am. having so much content of a character you love is very lucky.

i'm incredibly picky, though, and i don't think all of the changes in her personality can be reduced to 'character development.' she was written by people, writers who make decisions and have thoughts and change things based on their experiences and biases.

just because the writers may be trying to give their characters 'happy endings' as you put it doesn't mean i'm going to like their creative decisions. it's the simpsons, it's so highly episodic, and even moments that were advertised as big changes in the status quo were eventually abandoned. the writers do not like having to see big changes through. (cough cough cough the burns cage cough)

their dynamic, at its roots, is based around codependency. that's where it was born. without an understanding of that, they lose a lot of their nuance and depth because of how much they're defined by each other. this may not be true of modern writing, but it is true of the early seasons. i don't mean that they can't exist at all without each other, and i apologize if the way i said this lacked clarity, but what i meant was that their personalities were developed with room for their codependency. even when they aren't near each other, they are still people who are capable of relying on each other. the way their characterization has shifted does not often leave that space in their personalities.

i do not mean they always need to be around each other or thinking about each other. what i mean is that their personalities were created as foils, and they are losing that in the writers' inclination towards projected individualism.

in earlier seasons when they're pictured without each other, i like them just fine. i agree that there is more to them than each other. my critique was not that their characters have no potential, it was aimed at the writers' inability to properly utilize that potential.

they have their moments in modern simpsons, but overall, i think it says a lot that my favorite independent modern smithers appearance was one where she doesn't even talk. (werking mom)

on werking mom, i need to bring up that my complaints about smithers' identity come from ME being gay, transgender, and hell, even a doll collector! i see SO MUCH of myself in smithers. and yet, with modern smithers, i experience a palpable detachment. like suddenly, there's something off.

a lot of that does come from the new way they use smithers' gayness. i like it in earlier seasons because it feels so casual, like it doesn't have to be said for us to know it. it's more human like that. modern simpsons is OBSESSED with saying it. constantly. over and over again. in every scene. and it annoys me because it feels like they forgot that there IS more to smithers than that. smithers' experience with gender and sexuality will always inform her life and interests, but the modern writing on that doesn't feel like a nuanced exploration on the influence of lgbt identity upon everyday life. it feels cheap and performative.

when i say "smithers has been reduced to his gayness," what i mean is that his characterization has become a lot more stereotypical. the fact that her writing has become more shallow makes this noticeable to me because most of her episodes revolve around gayness in some way. even if bottle episode wasn't about her being attracted to men, it was still dependent on gay stereotypicality to make the episode work. even the wine court stuff was tied to her involvement in the lgbt community. part of this comes from the simpsons' inclination to make her nicer- it feels like they see 'gay' as being a positive trait rather than neutral, so they struggle not to see gay people through a positive lens. that's stereotyping, even stereotypes that intend kindness can be condescending if they lack depth. smithers being depicted as better than he was in the past is, at least partially, intrinsically tied to her identity as gay.

lackey is in and of itself an example of this double standard. it's noticeable that nowadays, smithers doing good deeds always feels intrinsically linked to her gay experience rather than her individuality. along with that, it's hard to read as 'character development' because, to me, smithers already feels like a husk at the beginning of the episode. his being a good person is tied to his relationship with michael, how she wants love but won't take it at the expense of others... then keeps working for mr. burns??? it doesn't feel like a development or change. it feels like an easy thing for the writers to do because it would be annoying to let smithers have a new boyfriend. it would do too much to change the show's overall formula, and it's easier to just make smithers drop him to keep things the same.

when i say, "smithers isn't allowed to be gay for mr. burns" anymore, what i mean is that acknowledgments of that attraction feel half assed and chorelike. the writers do not care about the way smithers likes mr. burns. i stand by what i said. the writers don't want to write burns and smithers being codependent, they want to write AROUND it. as in, i believe they want it to affect their plotlines as little as possible.

i just don't like the decisions they make for their characters in modern simpsons. you mention flanders' grief, so i'll say i didn't like o c'mon all ye faithful's handling of that, either. it has the same problem as smithers' relationship with michael, it has to do with a fundamental fear of change.

at the beginning of lackey, smithers doesn't have a boyfriend. by the end, smithers doesn't have a boyfriend. at the beginning of faithful, flanders believes in god. by the end, flanders believes in god. any "changes" that occur in the plotline are illusory because these episodes pose no threat to the writers' routine. my complaints are not just me wanting burnsmithers fodder. i think the way they're handling the characters is bland, clunky, and uninventive. any 'innovation' is wholly performative or intended to lampshade a flawed understanding of the characters themselves and why they were entertaining and charming at their inception.

thinking abt bottle episode now -_- i think it's so exhausting to watch burns and smithers in recent seasons because it feels like the writers are trying to write AROUND their codependency? they can acknowledge it exists on paper, but in practice, they fail to anchor their interactions in a logical understanding of it.

like, they had burns pestering smithers for help early in the episode to the point it was a catalyst for the plot, and yet, when smithers is INCARCERATED burns doesn't notice until he's specifically told? it just feels like the writers don't want to engage with how these two need each other to function, not just from the watsonian perspective but doylian as well.

without smithers, burns becomes just an evil old rich man. without burns, smithers kind of just exists??? they are both SO important for contextualizing each other and creating respective depth.

along with that, i think smithers' personality has become way too reliant upon his gayness. in the name of "representation," they've brought it into the forefront of his characterization and, in doing so, dropped most of the shit that actually made him unique in the first place. of course the writers can't see why he would like mr. burns anymore! they just see him as a nondescript spineless gay guy! i believe his writing is way more homophobic than it was in the early years because it feels like being gay is all he has at this point. and yet he's also not allowed to be gay FOR mr. burns. and mr. burns is a pathetic old man, but he's not allowed to need smithers because he has to be one dimensionally evil and capable of performing functional independence.

their newfound lack of chemistry drastically impedes their ability to be enjoyable and entertaining, and i think the writers know that but don't realize it's their own fault. it seems like they don't have fun writing the two as the unit they're supposed to be, so they go to great lengths to mischaracterize them even further just to keep them from interfering with each other's plotlines. i mean god, take thirst trap for example. i'll just post what i said about that one on discord.

[text: they got the "smithers likes mr. burns" thing down and they don't seem to know anything else about them and i'm just staring at them like there is no world where mr. burns marries a random shady woman who is blatantly using him for his money and smithers is just like Yeah she's cool because she likes Mr. Burns too!

No. He would want to kill her and wear her skin]

more than anything i wish that burns and smithers would be allowed the codependency that defined them in the first place. they don't just like each other, they NEED each other, and that fact is supposed to create an obstacle that defines them intrinsically. that's where their writing begins. can we just go perform a simpsons coup d'état

[goldentigerfestival]

I love the vocal nuance in this exchange, but also posting this for my differences posts because this is one of the changes that infuriates me the most. Yuri didn't threaten Ioder, did not threaten him with a weapon, and just said he'd punch him in a lazy, half joking voice (half joking as in, he really doesn't want to hear that - that's just his way of saying so; but that's not the voice of someone who is super angry and threatening).

My other huge grievance is that this is a recurring issue between them in the dub. Yuri is pretty much always vocally rude to Ioder. Ioder has done nothing to wrong him or anyone and has only ever done good for the people where he's able to.

Yet despite Ioder being nothing but sincere, honest and polite with Yuri, in fact even happy to see him here and there, dub Yuri is outright tonally rude to him leading right up this scene where he threatens Ioder in this dark voice. Meanwhile he's actually just supposed to be… lazily telling Ioder he'll punch him in his Yuri Lowell way of saying "I don't want to hear that".

The dub really just wanted to turn Yuri into this dark edgelord and I hate that for my goofy, silly boy.

[sskk-manifesto]

(´･ᴗ･ ` )

[renegadeontherunn]

hi! this is my small, gentle reminder that you don’t have to be like other people. I know the best parts of other people are beautiful and exciting and just so cool, but you don’t need to be everything. it’s okay not to be as good at watercolor as your sister or not give good advice like your mom does and it’s okay to love qualities in other people. sometimes other people’s words or their idiosyncrasies or the way they part their hair is so wonderful that you want to join, you want to feel the way about yourself, about the not-as-great parts of yourself that you do about the best parts of them. and it’s okay if you start listening to The Killers because it’s your brother’s favorite band or if you decide you want to get red converse like the ones your best friend has. but it’s okay if you can’t “keep up” with their grades or will never be able to do eyeliner as well as they can or maybe it seems like they just love life more than you do. I just want you to know that there are unattainable parts of you too. you can like things about other people that you don’t have, and you don’t have to give a compliment thinking god I wish I was like that. you don’t have to be like that. it’s okay to just be the things you are. you don’t have to be everything. 

[bumblingbabooshka]

One of the best Voyager scenes to indicate Tuvok & Neelix's dynamic and how I think Tuvok is just as if not more 'annoying'(positive) than Neelix is when Neelix pours Tuvok a fresh squeezed glass of a fruit juice blend and Tuvok's like (paraphrased) "I don't want to drink this." and Neelix is like "Can you please try it?" and Tuvok's like "I don't want to, you're really bad at this sort of thing. It's going to taste bad." and Neelix says that Ensign XYZ said she LOVED it, she even had a second glass! And Tuvok says Ensign XYZ could drink poison without a second thought and Neelix is like "Tuvok could you please just TRY it? Just try a little SIP of it PLEASE??" and Tuvok sighs and rolls his eyes and sniffs it before taking a sip and it turns out he loves it. Turns out it tasted good actually. And then after all that Neelix tries to talk to him over eggs (which he's again cooking fresh for him) and Tuvok tells him he doesn't wanna hear "the life history of his breakfast." Absolutely insufferable this man I would have burned his eggs on PURPOSE!!!!

[mint-mumbles]

Gonna use this image any time someone says something low key sexist about Sable (ie "she's showing too much skin" regarding a fucking bathing suit 😭🤦)

I don't hear you complaining about Spirit 😭

[blackcurrant-juice]

i might be slow but i only realized her fes hairstyle is based on her childhood a few hours ago