#(bc of how new they are to the fandom)

[stealingyourbones]

Never will I stop with the steadfast notion that folks in the DPXDC fandom should interact with at least some form of canon DC media.

There are comics, tv shows, radio dramas both old and new, podcasts, movies, magazines, so much shit that intentionally avoiding the media is simply preventing yourself from spawning new ideas and gaining a new appreciation for a fandom that you’re already in.

The Superman Radio Show has episodes 11 minutes long. A lot of the TV shows don’t have episodes that surpass 30 minutes and most are nearly fully clipped on the official DC YouTube channel. The amount of fan made motion comics is astounding. The amount of fanmade animations is equally as incredible.

[fashion4standusers]

Anyway, if I had a nickel for every time a series had six installments that gradually escalated in ridiculousness, only for the sixth installment to end with a universe reboot and the seventh installment to pick up in a new universe where alternate versions of the original characters now exist in the distant past, I'd have two nickels.

One of those series is JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. The other is Riverdale

[spaceistheplaceart]

had more thoughts about genderqueer layton after my last post. thought about how it would be for her/him in the 60s/70s... then this comic spawned

[likeprongstostars]

If you take art requests, please please please Reggie as a kid holding a baby lamb. The lamb has a cute little pink bow as a collar and Reggie is smiling, it would be a Polaroid picture :(

that was great for my mental health thank you for the request

[beemo-clippin]

A little compilation of Etho playing with the new wind charges and having so much fun

Clipped from Etho Plays Minecraft - Episode 587: Trial Chambers (42:34-47:10)

Trying something new with the video description and transcriptions by combining them into a kind of "script." Let me know if you hate it, or if you love it!

Video description and transcription (combined) below cut:

Etho's POV on his Let's Play world as he runs around the border of a sandstone structure, holding a wind charge.

Etho: So I do wanna play around with these as well. I'm hoping I can become a real ninja now. *laughs* And like start wall climbing and jumping off walls with these. I don't know if that's possible.

He approaches a wall and throws the wind charge at the wall several times in a row, gaining height and landing on top of the wall.

Etho: Ohh, that- that's probably. Oh you can! Oh my goodness!

He runs along the top of the wall as he expresses his enjoyment for the new feature.

Etho: It's like metroid when you're like bonging- Bobbing up a- A structure or something. *laughs* Oh that's really cool. Okay I like that.

------

Cut to Etho's POV in the same area, standing on top of a honey block and looking straight down at it. A slime block is placed near the honey block, and Etho throws a wind charge at the honey block to launch in the air and land on the slime block.

Etho: Over the slime, we bounce.

Throwing another wind charge at the slime block below his feet, he launches higher in the air.

Etho: Bounce! *laughs* Oh that was some pretty good air!

He repeats this process, launching higher each time, above the trees and structure around him.

Etho: Woahhh boy! Can we keep going? Oh we keep going! Look at that, that is so cool.

------

Cut to Etho's POV in the same area, he "skips" with his Elytra, jumping twice to glide low to the ground, hitting the floor to bounce back up and continue gliding.

Etho: Oh, how about skipping! ^-^ What does it do if we skip? You know when you're skipping with the elytra?

On his second jump, he throws a wind charge to the ground, which launches him higher and he glides much further. He repeats this once.

Etho: Ohh yes! Skipping is the way to go! *laughs*

------

Cut to Etho's POV in the same area, he looks down at a pressure plate surrounded by dispensers that face the pressure plate. He lands on the pressure plate which triggers wind charges from all four dispensers, launching him high in the air.

Etho: *evil laugh* Ohh yes >:) Oh that is awesome.

He uses his Elytra to glide back down, and tries one more time, elated at height achieved and the potential for wind charges.

Etho: Duuude these things are so fun. And you can do even more probably :D *laughs*

[ayyunah]

happy (late) birthday owl house. I miss you everyday

[necrotic-nephilim]

@sasheneskywalker i love when you enable me to ramble about things because oh my god do i have thoughts.

so recently, i made a post discussing the phenomena of DC x DP and DC x MLB crossovers and why they exist and part of that post was discussing how largely speaking, at least half, if not more of the Batfamily fandom doesn't read the comics. if they interact with canon DC material, it's adaptations that are their own sequestered universes and oftentimes not remotely comic accurate or seeking to be. the most obvious example is the Young Justice cartoon. i'm adding a cut to this post because it just got so long i'm so sorry.

a lot of times, when people are discussing the "why" of this oversaturation of fanon-only fandom, they blame Wayne Family Adventures. and i think, to a point, i agree WFA is responsible for a boom in this fandom. but as someone who's been in the fandom long before we had WFA, to me it's the other way around. WFA was DC's way of meeting the demand for this easy-to-get-into, easy-to-consume content about the Batfamily that predicates itself on the comics just enough to be vaguely the same characters, but has a more sitcom, slice-of-life sort of vibe so DC could profit off of this section of the fanbase that otherwise wasn't consuming its primary material. and well, it's definitely worked. not only that, but i have a weird theory that the decline in the MCU also led to the rise in the Batfamily fandom. when you consider the fan content that made the MCU popular within fandom, it's that 2012 "they all live in Avengers Tower and Thor is eating poptarts and Clint is in the vents and there are movie nights every Friday" sort of vibe. those were the fics that were a hallmark of the fandom. and as the MCU has strayed from well... quality content in general, but specifically well-thought-out crossover content where characters can have their own arcs but also exist in a wider story where they clearly care about each other, that fandom was sort of homeless. so where do you go, if you like a superhero found family where you can have villains for angst but also stick them all in one big family-like home for silly crack and have a plethora of options for gay ships? well. you go to the Batfamily. if you write a crack/fluff Batfamily genfic with silly vibes and low stakes instead of say, a fic about a very specific comic issue even if it's a popular comic, you're *going* to get more traction for the former. because the fanbase largely just isn't reading the comics.

and i feel... complicated about this. because on one hand, Don't Like Don't Read has been a tenet of my fandom experience. i'm very pro-fandom and that includes fandom content i don't like. and to an extent, i do think this sort of should apply to Batfamily fanon. i enjoy having my moments with other comic purists, giggling over exceptionally painful OOC headcanons or even facepalming in pain over some content but it is on me to not interact with that content. you don't make fandom a better place by being hostile to fans who engage with canon in ways you don't approve of. and frankly? we as comic readers are not going to get non-comic fans to read the comics by being asshats to them. no one is going to want to pick up any comic if we get a superiority complex about it. and also, i feel like we're all lying to ourselves a little bit insisting comics are so, so easy to get into. they're not. we can just all agree, they're really not. i've been single-handedly helping my sister get into comics, specifically Wonder Woman and no matter how simple i make it, i watch her get frustrated trying to understand what pre-Crisis and post-Crisis and New-52 and Flashpoint and all these things mean and what a retcon vs a reboot is and what a Crisis Event is and what the hell Diana's current backstory even *is*. sure, you can give someone a beginner list of comics to start with and slowly dip their toes in the water but sooner or later, *something* is going to confuse them. comics as a medium straight up aren't going to be everyone's cup of tea. and if someone *just* wants to read silly fluffy fanfiction about the Batfamily, i can't entirely begrudge them for not wanting to take the hours and hours out of their day to understand this medium. it's not an accessible medium to get into. "read this and this, but this run is out of print and this run wasn't collected in trades at all but also make sure you read that event in order and this is a good comic but the backstory in it is retconned and you *have* to read this it's so important but it's also really bad because the author kind of sucks" sounds. ridiculous for someone who like. just wants to read some stuff about Nightwing. sometimes, we all make reading comics sort of sound like a chore, not a hobby.

so my point is, i do extend some grace to Batfamily fanon for existing. i think my biggest gripe is, as i said in my other post, misuse of tags (if you're not creating content about comics, maybe you don't need the comics fandom tag on Ao3, just the all media types umbrella tag) and my far bigger gripe: when panels are taken out of context to support fanon only headcanons. if i could impart *anything* onto the Batfamily fandom as a comic fan it'd be this: if you haven't *read* the comic, don't spread the panel. if you don't even know what comic it's *from*, don't spread the panel. it's fine to use comic panels to discuss your headcanons, but so often i see someone spreading a comic panel from a comic they haven't read, and when asked where it's from, they can't source it. a silly example that comes to mind is a post going around, taking a panel where Dick, in his internal monologue goes "here comes the sun. do do do do." and the post is claiming it's from him getting buried alive. when that panel comes from Nightwing (1996) #140, and he gets buried alive in Nightwing (1996) #127, two completely different moments frankensteined together. if you're going to not read the comics, that's completely fine, but unless you're sure of the source and the context, panels shouldn't be spread around. i'm sick of this specifically happening to Red Robin (2009), with ppl claiming Tim has totally killed people because he blew up some of Ra's' bases, when those panels within context, make it clear he gave everyone time to escape. and in a later arc in that very comic, Tim grapples with the idea of murdering Captain Boomerang, and *specifically chooses not to*, because he doesn't agree with murder, even against the person who has hurt him the most. if you'd like to write fanfiction where Tim is pro-murder and has done some sketch things, i'm totally on board and would probably like to read it. but there's no need to pretend it's canon from a few panels you saw out of context.

beyond that, i think it's not *entirely* correct to say that fanon is harmless. whenever i see very WFA-positive posts, they often default to the argument that WFA is fun and silly, and comic fans are killjoys for not liking it. which. i think is complicated because the issue is, WFA and fanon don't exist in a vacuum. if you like WFA power to you, i don't think it's the worst thing ever, but i do think it's degrading to these characters because honestly? they feel incompetent in the webtoon. it's one thing if WFA was solely a slice-of-life sort of deal, just having silly episodes where Bruce is taking on a PTA mom or they're all fighting for the last cookie. but when WFA attempts to take on more serious plots with these characters, it *fundamentally* falls flat in understanding them. i get it, Bruce comforting Jason having a panic attack because a noise reminded him of the crowbar felt cute in a microcosm, but i'm so serious when i say that storyline destroyed how like. half of this fandom understands Jason Todd's relationship to his trauma. it doesn't understand how he reacts when he's triggered, what coping mechanisms he seeks out, and how he would handle Bruce comforting him. even if i can believe for a brief moment Jason *would* be triggered by something like that, him running and trying to hide and then getting a hug from Bruce to make it okay is just. painful. WFA needs everything to be wrapped up in a nice, neat little bow. so even when it starts to tackle interesting concepts, it makes them fall flat with its need to be soft, low stakes, hurt/comfort. there was a two-parter episode that dealt with the complicated mutual hatred/jealousy between Tim and Damian that *almost* really interested me because for once, it felt like the webtoon wanted to explore canon messy dynamics. but of course, it had to be fixed with one conversation and a hug. you don't mend the *years* of issues these characters have like that. WFA isn't in character because these characters are hyperbole cartoonified versions of themselves to fit within the medium and be a cute happy family.

because that right there, is the crux of it. the Batfamily fanon seeks to simplify the Batfamily and force them into a nuclear family. there are so many fantastic posts on here discussing how the nuclear family-ification of the Batfam is eroding decades worth of complex histories so i won't go too far into that. but what i will say is that there's this need, in the Batfamily fandom, for the Batfamily to exist as a unit. they are a *family*. (honestly i think calling it the Batfamily is a misnomer and has been for years but we're in too deep now.) they exist to each other first, and any teams or friends they have come secondary to this family unit. you can *specifically* see this demonstrated in what headcanons are becoming popular these days. i have an entire lengthy meta in my drafts about how i *loathe* the "the Batfamily meets the Justice League" genre of fanfic because it makes no *sense*. in order to have this genre of fic exist, you must operate under the assumption that no one in the League, or adjacent to the League, knows the Batfamily exists and are thus utterly shocked to discover Batman has kids. and to make *that* work, you have to strip *every single Batfamily member* of such important dynamics and friendships so you can lock them all in Gotham for their whole lives. Dick can't have the Titans, Tim can't have Young Justice, Duke & Cass can't have the Outsiders, Jason can't have the Outlaws, Damian can't have the Supersons, Babs can't have the Birds of Prey, and so on. because if they had these relationships, they would be known to the League. the Batfamily fandom doesn't care about this, it's just "silly fanfiction", it's not trying to be serious. but how can you say you like Dick Grayson as a character if you don't understand the Titans *are* his family? at some points of his life, moreso than the Batfamily even is. it is constantly repeated to us in most comics with Dick how much the Titans mean to him. he *needs* them to be who he is. the same extends to every other Batfamily member, most of which have been full League members at this point. but in fanon, that doesn't matter. the Batfamily are a sequestered unit first, and all of those side relationships are secondary and easy to toss away, if it makes your fanfic work better.

and because they have to be a unit first, you have these forced relationships that dump years of actual canon material for the sake of making them get along. the Batfamily fandom has its favorites and well. it's no secret it's usually the boys. Jason and Tim by *far* stand out as fandom faves so, their dynamic is a heavily explored one. it does matter that in canon they don't tend to get along and especially don't see each other as family. what matters is that you can push dynamics onto them. and so fanon gets all twisted up about which Robin Tim actually idolized as a kid (Dick) and what member of the Batfamily is pro-murder but still an older sibling figure to him and looks out for him (Helena, or if you want the dynamic of once tried to harm Tim but they've reconciled, Jean-Paul) in favor of who's the most popular. Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian are always going to be the standouts for popularity, but it's specifically Jason and Tim who are getting fanonized the most. and that's because really, we don't have much canon content of Tim that *isn't* the comics. for Dick you've got Young Justice (tv), for Damian you've got the DCAMU, for Jason you've sort of got the Under The Red Hood movie, but Tim sort of lingers in this limbo. (yes, he's in Young Justce (tv) and Titans (live action) but in neither is he the main character nor given much depth) so, he gets a *lot* projected onto him and has become fanonized. and even with Jason's animated movies, you don't see him interact with Tim, so people build it from the ground up how they want to see it, disregarding of canon comics. i think it's what makes him so popular in the first place- he's malleable into whatever you want or need him to be.

and of course, the fanon ignores other characters in the Batfamily it doesn't know about. i feel like you could create a tier list of Batfamily characters by their popularity, going from the fandom main characters: Tim, Jason, Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Damian. to the underrated: Steph, Duke, Babs, Cass. to the forgotten about unless they're convenient for a story: Kate, the Foxes, Helena Wayne, Carrie, Selina, Harper Row, Maps, Minhkhoa Khan. to the absolutely unknown: Helena Bertinelli, Jean-Paul Valley, Onyx Adams, the Clovers, Julia Pennyworth. it's not lost on me that the ignored characters tend to be women and people of color. which is both a canon and fanon problem, DC will continue adding interesting characters to the Batfamily, play with them for a few years, then drop them to default to the "Batboys" again. and it's a vicious cycle of the fandom only caring about the "Batboys", and thus people entering the fandom via fanon osmosis won't have content about the other characters, therefore, they won't be interested in those characters enough to create it, and it's just this ouroboros consuming itself, no matter how much canon content we have of these other characters. and it's ridiculous just how large the Batfamily is becoming because of this, which is why i'm a pre-Flashpoint fan, because then the Batfamily was contained enough to actually feel like a family with every character having nuances relationships with each other, but i digress because those thoughts could be their own post.

and the thing about fanon is it doesn't exist in a vacuum. DC has started turning the comics to accommodate for what fans are asking for, because fans will beg and beg for content they're not going to consume. Tim Drake: Robin had Tim as a coffee drinker because that's the fanon accepted headcanon. and the resolution of the recent Gotham War arc was for Bruce to buy this new manor for everyone to move in and call him. nevermind that most of these characters have their own homes and have zero reason to be moving in with Bruce. Tim had his marina in Tim Drake: Robin, Dick has Bludhaven, Cass and Steph have their little side of town in Batgirls (2022), and so on. these characters are being forced together as a unit, as one big happy family living together, to appease what non-comic fans want and it's damaging comic relationships. Robin: Knight Terrors saw Jason and Tim team up and working together, which i've seen varying opinions on but i personally despised. their interactions made zero sense for any of their canon history, but it appeases them being this close sibling relationship that fanon acts like they are. also the fears they faced in their respective knight terrors didn't make sense for either character and *only* worked as a moment of bringing them together so they could reassure each other and have this weird dreamscape bonding moment. the canon is bending itself to the will of fanon rather than building on the pre-existing complex relationships. Tim barely even gets along with his most important team in Dark Crisis: Young Justice because it seems the only important relationships the Batfamily can have is with each other. and when we do see them outside of the Batfamily, it only seems to be to relive the glory days like with World's Finest: Teen Titans, instead of developing them as they currently exist. this isn't recent in the comics, it feels like you can trace it back to the New-52, but it does feel a *lot* worse over the recent years. WFA is fine when it exists in its own bubble, but the simple truth is, DC content never exists on its own. the adaptations will reflect back onto the comics. (the damage the Young Justice cartoon has done to some characters should honestly be studied) and so it does frustrate me a bit when fanon-only or adaptation-only fans act like we're being nothing but killjoys for being frustrated with this. since they don't read the comics, they don't see how the comics are suffering as a result of this.

people argue about what's out of character for the comics they don't even read. i'm sorry, but "bad dad Bruce" is consistently canon. that man is just kind of shitty. when you take someone who has the drive he has, who has this need for the Mission first, who needs a teenager in spandex next to him to keep him off the ledge, that guy is sort of going to be a shitty father figure. he just is. not on purpose or with malice, but when you compare him to any other dad in a big DC family, he sure takes the cake. it's why characters like Oliver Queen tend to *really* fucking hate Bruce for how he treats his kids. Bruce loves fiercely, but he doesn't do well with putting that love first. and his love is a controlling one, he is very particular about controlling how others in the Batfamily are "allowed" to operate. it's what drives the wedge between him and Dick, it's why Steph is never a true daughter to him. (besides the reason of her needing to be a love interest to Tim first, anyway-) i've never understood the massive outcry of people reacting to Bruce kinda being shitty in comics they're not reading. there are some moments that get ridiculously OOC with how cartoonishly evil he is (the whole Gotham War arc and that... complicated mess with Jason) but largely if you want sitcom loving nuclear father Bruce, you have to accept that is a fanon thing, not a canon one. the Batfamily being a nuclear family in *general* is fanon. most of the "Batkids" don't actually see Bruce in a particularly fatherly light and begging for moments where he calls them his kids or they call him dad outside of incredibly specific circumstances is just OOC.

it's getting harder and harder to exist peacefully in this fandom it feels like, if you don't comply to the standard fanon has set. i'm happy people are having fun with their blorbos, even if in ways i dislike, but that "harmless fandom fun" does ripple it's way back to canon, eventually. so i end up pretty tangled with my feelings because are fans at fault for DC making these poor decisions? probably not, but it certainly feels like an unfortunate cause-and-effect situation whether at the end of the day, nobody is happy. and of course, i know some fanon-only fans are striving to be more canon accurate and care about canon dynamics more than others, but for them it's always going to be an uphill battle with the above-mentioned out-of-context panels thrown around and ever-pervasive fanon overtaking anything that's truly seeking to be canon compliant. so really, it sometimes feels like we're all losing.

[howlsofbloodhounds]

Sometimes I wonder why the fandom used blatantly refuse to allow killer to love or care about color the way they made him care about literally anyone else, mostly nightmare, on the rare occasions they bothered to acknowledge color at all.

It’s always depicted as if killer doesn’t feel the same way about color as color does about him (romantic or platonic doesn’t matter) as if color isn’t the only one killer has ever asked for help or admitted his deepest wants and desires to and if color isn’t the only person he has ever canonically and openly admitted to liking in any capacity in his present day, and being aware of that liking even in Stage 2 after the “Save Me” comic, even if it’s not enough for him to trust Color yet. The only other person he’s gotten close to saying that he ‘used to like’ was Toriel.

Papyrus would’ve likely been another if killer had ever been able to handle even thinking about him. Let alone talking about him. Not even Nightmare gets ‘like,’ at most he gets ‘kinda missed.’

Literally, when asked if he likes anyone, killer has just straight up just said “no” and yet in the same comic where color gets killer to admit what he wants, killer also (in stage 2!) would’ve said he “kinda likes that guy” if nightmare hadn’t told him to shut up. And that is immediately after threatening to kill color.

[phreaticlayer]

reposting bc first round got eaten by shadowban :( new sideblog Ls i guess

[sluckythewizard]

FIIIINALLY almost nailed my designs for lizzie and caspian can i get a HEEEELLL YEAAH???? i think these two make a vvery cute duo and i cannt wait to see them again. i also hope they both get hurt reaaaallly really badly. togeter

[mrmeepsmadmind]

starbee comic,,, if u get the reference then u understand a pivotal part of how i see their dynamic

Bee x scream is like if that one rlly bubbly & makes herself seem ditzy and cute girl to everyone to have friends who'll dump her the moment they get a bf & she's probably on the spectrum but no one notices or cares to delve deeper into her bcs she's so 'cute' & smiles & masks to be liked ( bcs she doesnt want anyone to delve deeper into her personality & realize shes actually Not perfect miss lil daddys girl purity ring ) was forced to be stuck with The Bitchtm intimidating weird girl who's also undiagnosed but everyone knows there's Something with her & treated her differently in a way they Think is discreet but She Knows & no matter how hard she tries, everyone's gonna have this Undertone with her so she's just given up on trying to seem pleasant to everyone but still desperately wants to be loved & has a slight clue as to why ppl keep hating her even when she tries for them not to for once but still can't get an answer bcs her life sucks and diagnosis is expensive and she has no time and she's - omg why is this bitch (bee) making her notes all cute with big colorful fonts & organized by alphabetical shade marker collection haha she's so weird (<- is Also weird bcs hes starscream). im gonna ask to borrow one of her favorite markers (the baby blue one) and dry it out while she stares at me with big wet eyes trying to find a polite way to put 'im gonna kill you' in a sentence

[my-pjo-stuff]

*YAPPING AHEAD, THIS IS LONG*

As someone who has circled through a LOT of fandoms, you know what differentiates the PJO fandom from most of the others? Their raging hatred for what normally would be a very popular character archetype. "Who's that character archetype then" you ask? The answer is Luke Castellan. Unirnonically, I'm complety straight with this.

Luke Castellan is one of the most popular character archetypes in most other fandoms I am/were in.

Now before I get further into this meta, we should establish what archetype Luke actually is and what the criteria are. To me, Luke is the classical Sympathetic Fallen Hero. Someone who only wanted what's best at the end of the day who was wronged by an unjust system, and pushed into straight-up villainy and evil deeds in a desperate attempt for revenge or justice. Oftentimes that push happened by him joining up with a larger, more evil figure who manipulated his hatred into serving this larger, evil goal. Generally also has some deep-rooted trauma in the form of a DARK backstory.

Like literally, that guy is TEXTBOOK. He checks all the boxes. -Someone who only wanted what's best at the end of the day

Check. His goal was a "golden age" for demigods, a future where they would no longer have to die during quests or would be abandoned by their godly parents.

-and pushed into straight-up villainy and evil deeds in a desperate attempt for revenge or justice.

Check. Luke wanted both revenge and justice, which led him to form the Titan Army and all the bad stuff he did. Some include attempting to kill Percy multiple times and leading attacks on camp. The obvious superiority the gods would have over a demigod army led to Luke allying himself with Kronos and other evil forces. (Thus the "desperate" part)

-Oftentimes that push happened by him joining up with a larger, more evil figure who manipulated his hatred into serving this larger, evil goal.

Check. On multiple occasions has it been mentioned that Kronos punished and pressured Luke, using fear tactics to get him to do what he wanted. I mean- Kronos himself said that he would have preferred Percy because he "did things easier" referring to taking the CoA ("I had to pressure Luke in many ways(.....)")

-Generally also has some deep-rooted trauma in the form of a DARK backstory.

Check. His mother went insane when he was still an infant. Hermes practically abandoned them, leaving Luke to be raised by his mentally unstable mother having episodes that scarred him so bad he hid in closets. He proceeded to run away at 9, living on the streets completely alone before meeting Thalia. From then on he went around with her having to deal with monsters. Hal happened, they met Annabeth and Luke started to get parentified/parentified himself. He proceeded to watch Thalia die as he attempted to get to camp at 14. At the same age he had his quest, which he failed and got himself a nasty scar. Luke proceeded to get no discernable mental help or sufficient support to deal with the mental strain resulting from that. Instead, he was put into a caretaker role for younger children not only showing him the results of the system's neglect first hand but also effectivley robbing him of any semblance of a childhood. Once Kronos got to him he continued to the plagued by nightmares.

All that being said, we now established that Luke in fact is a textbook example of what I call the Sympathetic Fallen Hero. (SFL for short from now on) Now onto my point that the other fandoms generally really love the SFL archetype that Luke is. That I will do with examples. Before I list these examples, a short disclaimer. I HEAVILY shortened and abridged the plot and storylines on here as to not make this post overly long. I definitely recommend checking each of these media/characters out for yourself.

Anyway, here we go : STAR WARS :

A big part of the fandom LOVE Anankin/Darth Vader whom they view as a SFH. (Even though him not really being a SFL in the way that he checks all the boxes. But I'm going with the majority fandom view here so ig Vaderkin counts. For those who want, I made a post on my main comparing him to Luke here and how Luke is what the star wars fandom pretends Vader is.)

MY HERO ACADEMIA/BOKU NO HERO ACADEMIA:

I want to talk the Villain Deku AU. Which is basically just an evil version of the MC who also checks all the SFH boces. The AU is hugely popular in the fandom with tons of fanart, animatics, cosplays and even a fan song. Honorable mention to the main anatonigst from the League of Villains, but especially Shigaraki and Dabi. They may not check ALL SFH boxes but an overwhelming majority. They are very popular with the fandom and generally regarded very kindly. Another honorable mention goes out to Stain. Also doesn't check ALL the SFH boxes, but most, and is also regarded generally positivley by the fandom.

THE PROMISED NEVERLAND

Norman, one of the main trio, spends a good part of the later manga seperated and leading his own resistance group against the main bad guy race (of monsters eating human brains- long story but I recommend the manga(don't watch s2 of the anime tho, it's basically the pjo movies for the manga)). Later on it is revealed that the main bad race isn't pure evil. Norman however got to the point where he wanted to commit a straight-up genocide against the race. Women, children, and elderly included. Bit of an outlier for a SFH, since he has no higher figure manipulating him into wanting to commit that genocide- but I'll let it slide. I did use the words "oftentimes" and "generally"- he also get's "redeemed" at the end/stopped from committing said genocide. Again the fandom regards him positively, even having him as a fan favorite.

NARUTO CLASSIC/NARUTO SHIPPUDEN

..... I mean most of the villains are SFH in that show. To the point where we would be here ages if I wanted to list them all. The two main examples most popular with the fandom tho would be Pain and Sasuke. Pain is a main villain whose home got destroyed, partially because of the MC's own home village. He watched his own parents die, and later lost one of his two best friends which finally pushed him over the edge (among others). Pain is also an outlier in terms of a SFH since he didn't have a major bad guy to manipulate him, instead leading his own evil (basically) terrorist cell. His goal was to achieve world peace by harnessing an ancient power, wanting others to suffer as much as he did so they recognize the value of peace. He killed a BUNCH of people. Pain did later revive a good chunk at the price of his own life however post redemption by the MC. Sasuke is the secondary MC and rival of the protagonist. Honestly he has so much going on I couldn't possibly mention it all. Basics are that his family got killed by his own brother due to difficult politics, he was the only survivor. His drive for revenge against his older brother caused him to join up with the main bad guy of Naruto Classic who rly only wanted him as a vessel (flashbacks much). Sasuke betrays his home for the bad guy to get the power he needs to take revenge. All that was stoked by the main bad guy and his comments. More plot happens, turns out the brother rly wasn't entierly bad and was also just used by other higher powers. Sasuke switches sides again and kills OG bad guy and joins up with Pain's previously mentioned terrorist group. The main goal from there is to destroy his home village who used his brother. He was not shy to kill ppl at that point, and was also basically ready to just commit a genocide on his own home. More plot happens, he get's redeemed eventually. Again in both cases the two are CRAZY popular with the fandom.

PERCY JACKSON AND THE OLYMPIANS

I talked about this once already on here, but the fandom seems to LOVE AUs where dark!Percy just opts to straight up overthrow Olympus. I don't think i have to elaborate more on that tbh, but for those that are interested: Here's the post I made about the fandom's hypocrisy concerning dark!Percy and Luke.

And those were only 5 examples, there are many more SFL examples LOVED by the fandom I haven't mentioned here. I'm sure of that.

Seeing this pattern really makes me wonder why Luke seems to be so despised. Logic would dictate him to be rather popular.

My personal theory ? It's a mix of a few factors. Those being : A) The fandom over-sympathizes with Percy Jackson

Percy is easily the most popular character in the fandom. He is the MC afterall. The fandom tends to take his side no matter what, without properly and honestly empathizing with his enemies. It's similar to having rose tinted glasses with a relative or friend. You take their side no matter what- not even wanting to hear out the other side. The fandom seems to have an inherent bias towards Percy, those nice to Percy are viewed positivley. Those having more negative interactions (,even if the interaction is relatively low on the nagtive scale, like a character being critical of Percy for example,) are generally viewed more negativley.

B) The First Person POV of the books and the average age of the fans when they first read the books.

This relates to the first factor in the way that the very Percy-centric set up of the fandom AND the books influence the fandom's perception of characters. The books where Luke appears in are all in Percy's POV. Luke as a character in very complex and needs a lot of empathy and reading between the lines to properly understand and analyze. The books being in Percy's POV hurt Luke in the way that Percy's opinion of Luke is omnipresent with him. Any First Person POV is inherently unreliable, thus Luke often gets presented as a rather one-dimensional evil since that's what Percy views him as for most the book. Luke lacks his own POV, meaning he doesn't really get the chance to truly explain himself. Then ontop of that is the fact that everything he does is filtered through Percy's eyes which are inherently hostile towards him ost the time. Such delivers a wrong first impression of Luke throughout the books. The fandom, due to their attachment to Percy, often do not take their time to objectivley reevaluate his POV or confront the fact that he's an inherently unreliable narrator. Especially for Luke. Furthermore, from what I have seen are a lot of the fans in the fandom "old timers". People who read the first few books as young children and were children when their opinions of characters formed. Them having been so young when first getting introduced to the characters saw them often unable to even really realize all I said above. It also further glorifies Percy as he get's the nostalgia bonus. People generally do not like to challenge their own believes, so large parts of the fandom never took their time to reevaluate Luke and his story once they got older and learnt about the concept of Unreliable Narrators.

C) The fandoms views Luke as a threat to Percy and Percabeth.

This relates to both factors above, while also including the popular false narrative of Luke being a "pedo" or "groomer" If you read the first five books you will see that besides his last question to Annabeth at the end, nothing Luke does can be even remotely read as pedophilic or grooming of nature. Quite the opposite acctualy! He has stated on multiple occasions canonically that he sees his relationship with Annabeth as platonic. The ONLY canonical romantic relationship he had was with a grown monster. He's only ever portrayed having interest in adult women (monsters) , and even that romance plot is just barely there. The fandom, again, is overly attached to Percy however. And they do not like it when other characters challenge him. Luke however is the MOST challenging character for Percy. Not only does he serve as main antagonist, but he also serves as a narrative foil to Percy. He is what Percy could become. He's the canonical dark!Percy AU. He's the other side of the coin toss. Furthermore, Luke also challenges Percy not only on the physical department (fights) but also in terms of morals. At the end of the day Luke was right afterall. One could argue that Percy wasn't really fighting for the "good guys"- he was simply fighting for the "lesser of two evils" Luke brings moral challenges to Percy. He doesn't allow Percy to be a wholly good , squeaky-clean hero. Percy was fighting for the upkeep of an oppressive system. (If U wanna argue with me on the gods being oppressive, take it up with the offical wiki article first : found here) Percy killed other demigods. Percy had flawed views. The fandom who over sympathise with Percy didn't like that Luke was an active threat towards the "goodness" of their favorite. The easiest way out eliminate that "threat" was to demonize Luke. Thus making his points "invalid" as he now was a pure evil villain only aiming to hurt. (Same for the entier TA btw) Percabeth is just as popular as Percy. Annabeth had a deep and important connection to Luke- at the time of the books arguably even deeper and more important than her connection to Percy. Throughout the book has Percy expresses annoyance at Annabeth's insistence in holding onto Luke. This combined with the points above saw Luke being viewed as a possibly threat, due to him being arguably the most important person of the other gender in Annabeth's life. And an obvious point of contention between Percabeth. Inorder to lessen that "threat" the fandom turned to demonizing Luke (again). Annabeth's and Luke's relationship can easily be swept away by saying that Luke was interested in her romantically thus making him a pedo, no ? As for the grooming....... honestly? People just used a buzzword there, because if Luke truly had groomed Annabeth she would have been on his side on the books. All I can say there is please you guys, read a dictionary and know what words mean before you use them.

D) Rick fumbled HARD writing Luke

Luke may just have been the biggest continuous mistake Uncle Rick made in terms of writing. His characterisation in the first two books made him seem VERY evil and unlikable, which is bad as a first impression for a character such as him. SFL like Luke need a lot of focus and insight aswell as sympathy to get behind them. In most examples I mentioned for SFL they backstory was known very early on and they had a lot more focus outside of villainy. Rick simply didn't give that. The backstory reveal with Luke happened far too late, he was far too evil with too little insight for a SFL in the first two books. His "redemtion" was a bit rushed. We got basically nothing on his relationship with his army. His goods sides and his doubts weren't really highlighted enough early on. His last words and questions to Annabeth were frankly said stupid. It broke the themes of family between Luke and Annabeth to some degree and only served as fodder for later accusations. The fact that it was (apperantly) later confirmed that he romantically loved Annabeth was just straight up stupid. It wasn't in character at all and just broke the themes even more, not to mention that it goes against everything we previously saw or heard of Luke. Not to mention that it also just served as further fodder for the fandom to demonize Luke.

Thanks for everyone who stuck around to read this absolute giant of a meta XD Probably was the largest Tumblr post I have written so far.

[sukibenders]

"I'm team feminist/feminism!" But will quickly drag a female character through the mud without sympathy for their circumstances just because they don't fit your ideals, will get mad when poc criticize a female character's actions that are very thinly coded in racism and say "support her crimes!" while ignoring how that often leads to the harm of poc characters, will shade woc characters or put them on higher pedestals than their yte counterparts while ignoring the harm they face while trying to meet your standards, will victim blame those who suffer (and are still suffering) from abuse when they act out in ways you deem "wrong" because of it, following up with the last point will mock and laugh at said abuse to uplift another female character (pitting women against women, even when the narrative does not ask for that), will dismiss any valuable argument displayed if the said female character is a little mean but then go and say "why can't female characters be mean? 🙄"

I could go on.

[toastybugguy]

Fanon perception:

The actual text of the show:

guys the huge difference is actually really funny when I’m not actively crying about it

[iconicname]

Me: just trying to read jason todd centric angst fic in peace

Tim drake 95% of the time: what if I made everything about meeeee I'm such a uwu abused neglected baby genius boy 🥺🥺who could do no wrong! See how I flinch and panic when Jason looks in my way!! Even though I'm supposed to be such a smart and tough badass robin worthy of my title unlike that stupid idiot 2nd robin who got himself killed and everything that ever happened to him was his fault because he beat me up one time and he disagreess with the almighty batman! :((((( I'm so terrified of him, but I'll forgive him, im so brave to face my "abuser." I'm such a good person who puts the mission first and emotion second, and B-b-b-because jason was my robin!! How could my inspiration betray me like this? im so insecure about my position as robin! I keep invading Jason's boundaries because I'm soooo smart! And that stupid idiot jason doesn't know. This is just how Bruce and I show love aren't such a good person with no flaws whatsoever? I may be born rich, but I'm the perfect philanthropist who has no internal biases against poor people and know the ins and outs of how to handle crime alley! I may even teach Jason something! Any good that ever happens to Jason is because of my interference , he should be forever grateful for having a brother like me and also forever guilty for beating me up one timeee, let's ignore the fact I fought back just as much and was conically still standing by the end. Jason should feel sooo guilty for existing in my presence that he feels obligated to cater to my emotional needs like a parent even though he's only three years older..I'll even guilt trip jason into taking care of Bruce's emotional needs because he's soooo sad and repressed his emotions! Even though Bruce and I never had a day in our lives where our needs were unable to be met and we never had a lack of support systems and jason spent spent his who childhood taking care of adults who should have been taking care of him. But I'm just so small and frail! I need taking care of and Bruce neglects me for that evil 9 year old, look at these brittle thin bones I'm so unhealthy and don't know how to take care of myself I need jason to do it even though I'm medically fit enough to be a vigilante and had enough support growing up to have access to good medical care and consistent nutrition. Oh, but i just don't know how to care for myself. I'm such a genius, but i can't figure out basic math like getting no sleep, and relying on coffee will lead to burnouts. I just want to keep going because I'm so loyal and noble. I can't waste a moment of time to save people! :))) look at all of these cutesy quirks I have no character development needed in fact all of my perceived character "flaws" are positive flaws or flaws that only negatively affect my uwu sad boy self rather than other characters or the plot!

[necrotic-nephilim]

I’m gonna be honest I didn’t realize the new 52 messed with Kon that much till I read your post and now I can’t get over the potential. I’m a Tim/Kon girly at heart so I would devour anything you write exploring the 52 vs typical Kon. Also Time being in a clone sandwich is 👌.

the new-52 messed Kon up SO bad it's ridiculous. like, to the point i would personally argue he's a completely unrelated character to pre-Flashpoint/Rebirth Kon. his personality, his suit, his origin, all different. the only real similarities are the name and powerset. and even New-52!Kon's powers are slightly different from pre-Flashpoint!Kon. New-52!Kon is a clone of a future version of Jon Lane Kent, cloned by N.O.W.H.E.R.E. to provide genetic material to Jon Lane Kent, whose body was not handling being half human/half Kryptonian well, it was a whole thing. New-52!Kon is also where we get the infamous "Kon-El means 'abomination of the house of El' and Kara basically named him a slur in Kryptonian culture" tidbit, because that is the only time that's canon. (originally Kon-El was a name gifted by Clark to accept Kon as his family way back in the 90s) he also never went by Conner Kent. New-52!Kon just straight up didn't have any real human identity or connections, outside of being very close to Tim and some Titans.

the very TLDR of Kon's history is: during post-Crisis/pre-Flashpoint, a clone called Superboy is created by CADMUS. at first, he's considered to be a clone of a dude named Paul Westfield and is not Kryptonian whatsoever, he was simply made to look like Superman and only has Tactile Telekinesis as a power. then, it was made canon that actually he was a clone of Lex Luthor and Clark Kent, but Lex hid this fact and slowly, Kon developed more Kryptonian powers. he's given the name Kon-El by Clark, and is taken in by the Kents, getting the name Conner Kent. then Flashpoint happens, we get the New-52, and we're given the above version of Kon-El, who is a clone of Jon Lane Kent, created by N.O.W.H.E.R.E. who has mostly very strong telekinesis powers and some Kryptonian powers. he's with the Titans for a bit, then at the end of the New-52, he kills some aliens and feels bad about it so he decides to fuck off and is never seen again, it's presumed he's dead but never confirmed. then Rebirth happens and DC makes Jon Kent the current Superboy, we get Supersons and all that, and it's assumed that no version of Kon-El exists. just at all. he's not around whatsoever, Jon is our only Superboy. *but* in 2019, we get a new Young Justice run and the pre-Flashpoint Kon-El is back, and we're given the explanation of: Kon got accidentally teleported to this alternate realm called Gemworld and then Flashpoint happened, and since that was a Crisis Event that changed the timeline, the poor lad got *erased* from the timeline, causing most people to *not fucking remember him* and for him to remember a timeline that no longer exists. some of the Young Justice team vaguely remember him, Ma and Pa Kent remember him, but notably, Clark *does not remember him*. it's not an issue of "Clark ignored Kon in favor of Jon" it's an issue of "Kon was erased from the timeline and didn't exist for years bc he was stuck in Gemworld and Clark just doesn't remember Kon or Kon's timeline" which to me, is far more tragic but i digress. since then, Kon has been back and is present in most significant Superfamily runs, with his own recent mini-series, Superboy: Man of Tomorrow. (which was very good btw)

so basically: the New-52 fucked Kon up so bad they wrote him out of comics for years and then brought back the pre-Flashpoint version, but never *explicitly* killed the New-52 version off. so hypothetically, it's possible that there are currently two characters existing in the DC universe named Kon-El who have been Superboy. and like i said above, one of New-52!Kon's only real significant relationships was with Tim, it was the only thing the New-52 managed to get right about Superboy, his closeness to Tim. they have a *lot* of moments that read incredibly queer. and ofc, it's just outright confirmed in Dark Crisis: Young Justice that Tim had a crush on pre-Flashpoint!Kon at some point. so while comics are intent on pretending New-52!Kon doesn't exist, i am intent on putting Tim in a clone sandwich.

because i do think it's fun to play with Tim having genuine feelings and potentially a relationship with both of them. and the fucked up nature of him not fully *remembering* his relationship with pre-Flashpoint!Kon (which is a canon thing, in YJ(2019) Tim has vague memories of Kon he's struggling to piece together and understand why he cares about this guy he doesn't recognize so much) and how frustrating that is for Tim. he knows he loves Kon, but it's all foggy besides that. and so it's even *more* fucked up if Tim dated New-52!Kon before he got emo and ran off into the unknown. obviously in canon no one has told current Kon about New-52!Kon bc comics are doing the good ol' tried and true of "sweep that shit under the rug" but for fanfic, i think it's fun to ask the question of: would anyone *tell* Kon? especially Tim? who now remembers dating both versions of them? would he admit to Kon that briefly, he had another Kon? how would Tim cope with that and move on? personality wise, they could not be more different. they dress and act and look different. they're not the same person, but there's certainly a questionable factor of Tim's dating history including two Kon-Els.

the idea i've had for a while is Tim slowly starting to date pre-Flashpoint!Kon again. it feels familiar and like home. and Tim has grieved and accepted that wherever New-52!Kon is, he doesn't want to come home, he didn't love TIm enough to stay and try. so Tim takes the Kon he has, and genuinely has a happy relationship. like for once, life is good and things almost make sense for Tim. but then, of course, New-52!Kon comes back. he decides he wants to try again and he finds Tim. only to find well. he's been replaced. and technically, he's been replaced with the *original* that he didn't even know *existed*. and if being a clone is bad enough, that just makes it a hundred times worse. because imagine knowing you're actually the second Kon-El your boyfriend who you never *technically* broke up with fell in love with. that's gotta give you some kind of complex.

so i think it's fun if both Kons try to step back and let the other Kon date Tim. both of them have reasons to feel like the "replacement" or "fake" Kon, and it makes them incredibly awkward with each other. do they count as the same person? bc they definitely don't *feel* like the same person to each other, but with weird timeline stuff, who can really say. them settling on an awkward throuple that's really meant to be Tim just dating them both but somehow they end up dating each other too is so fun for me. they both feel like imposters to the Superboy name but are so deeply in love with Tim Drake, it's the one thing truly connecting them. and then of course, Tim feels bad in that somehow, he's betraying both of them for having feelings for the other. but they make it work, with a lot of awkward angst and miscommunication. i just think it'd be fun. very difficult to write to get all the weird timeline nuances down in a way that's understandable in a fanfic (bc you can't just. infodump like i did on this post) but doable. also difficult to tag, because even though i argue these are two different characters, i'm pretty sure Ao3 groups them under the same character tag. so it'd be difficult to convey it's not *really* as selfcest-y as it would imply. comics, man. DC will never acknowledge New-52!Kon again, and he's admittedly a terrible adaptation of Kon-El, but. i think he was sort of neat in his own right and i'd *love* for DC to just inexplicably bring him back and make the current Kon deal with the consequences of all that. and them make Tim kiss them both. obviously.