#(We love you really DJenks!)

[obsidianbit]

I love this gay ass show with its literally life ending injuries that heal immediately, but only when convenient to the plot, and its ridiculous use of modern phrases, and its laughing in the face of historical accuracy, and its kissing the face of the fans instead of trying to outwit them, and the way everyone involved in the show seem to go 'I KNOW RIGHT! I'M EXCITED TOO!' instead of mocking the fans

[xoxoemynn]

what happened tonight with the wjw?

I'm too lazy to go back to watch the recording and annoy myself all over again lmao but essentially Kristian noticed someone in the chat say they had a question but they dare not ask, and said that normally he doesn't take questions from the chat but he was desperate to know what that question was. So people started tagging the person to get their attention and they came back with this SUPER appropriate and not at all embarrassing question.

Thankfully Kristian either didn't see the actual question, or ignored it, but yeah. Obnoxious as hell.

[wastingyourgum]

A new Rhysie reaction gif, made on request from the ever-lovely @appleteeth and for no particular reason whatsoever...

(More Rhysie reactions...)

[winepresswrath]

the man did surprise me i have to give him that.

djenks does not feel like he's writing specifically for my 17 year old self the way tamsyn muir or nd stevenson do but he does fall into the category of writers i trust to mostly share my sensibilities and interests and have something interesting to say about the project of being a person. tbh while i think it is actively good and healthy to read and watch things that are not the product of people who share my sensibilities and interests there is something really enjoyable about that trust fall. call it clown to clown communication or recognition of communal experiences in art but it's nice it's good. parasocial high fives all around.

[cat-hesarose]

Izzy Hands and broken promises

Now that I've had a day to digest the ending, I'm still in the "Izzy should have lived" camp but can better understand why it soured an otherwise great season finale for me.

Keep reading if you like rants about storytelling and queer catharsis from people with a Bachelor degree's worth of overconfidence and strong opinions.

Bar a handful of icks (Zheng Yi Sao getting outsmarted by Ricky, etc), I loved this season and don't see a wealth of problems that would not have been solved by two additional episodes. That said, Izzy's death is one of the things I can't see making any more sense if they had more time to explore his journey because his journey is what problematizes djenk's stated reasoning for his death.

In that one interview (and to be fair, we only have a brief window into his intentions as of right now), djenks positions Izzy as two things, specifically to Ed: a mentor and a father figure. And yeah, mentor figures often die. Their student surpasses them, or acquires a new narrative drive from their mentor's death to continue a quest.

Neither of these things feel like a fit for Izzy and Ed's dynamic nor their respective arcs. Neither does "father figure". Izzy was a love interest. He was described as a love interest. He confessed love to Edward. His mentor relationship was more established with Stede, if anything, who is an unreliable narrator and may well have been lying about Edward claiming that Izzy taught him everything he knows.

The journey that Izzy went on this season was parallel to Ed and Stede but it was with the crew. It's one big queerplatonic love story essentially, of him finding himself as an individual through the support they give and the space they hold for him. Season 2 Izzy Hands is, among other things, a love letter and showcase of the queer community's power to revive hope and purpose.

Izzy has the world's messiest breakup with Ed when they're both at their worst, and his healing begins with the crew of the Revenge. He only interacts with Ed again after bonding with, and growing through, the crew. So yes, it absolutely makes sense that his journey would proceed towards making peace with/saying goodbye to "Blackbeard". But it does not make sense that it would end there, with his death.

Djenks says that they're pirates, and people die. And yeah they do. But in the hand-wavy logic universe of OFMD it feels dismissive to say that about the death of a major character. And odds are, David "Izzy is my favourite character" Jenkins is not dismissive of Izzy, so that leaves tragedy.

My issue with that is, season 2 Izzy is no longer an innately tragic character. If you told me at the end of season 1 that season 2 would end with Izzy dying in Edward's arms telling him to go forth and change and accept love, I would've gone "that's sad but it makes sense." Because it would have, at the time. Season 2 Izzy departed from the trappings (so I thought) of the doomed fate of the bitter old repressed grimdark pirate when he put on the gold-painted wooden hoof and embraced his new role as First Mate of Stede Bonnet's gay floating kindergarten.

His death feels like a betrayal because, in a show that does queer characters Really Well, Izzy's arc feels like a broken promise. To say nothing of the politics of having a character attempt suicide, begin to heal, then say "I want to go" before dying, I wanted Izzy to want to live. It really felt like that was where his character was going, where his character was supposed to go.

Death for a character who is showing all this potential is only a natural ending in a tragedy. It isn't presented as peaceful or to punctuate another character's growth. Season 2 Izzy Hands had ceased to be reliant on and subject to Blackbeard. If anything, he was tied to the crew, who all stood back and felt much more removed from his death than they probably would have been if the show had more time to show their emotional responses. Having him die in Ed's arms, apologising for fueling Ed's destructive tendencies and encouraging him to be himself and accept love, feels like he got shunted off his new arc and back onto the old one. It feels like he went through all of that just to take a last-minute huge step back and re-subjugate himself to this character who does not reciprocate his devotion.

It makes me wonder if his death scene was one of the first ones written, before all that energy was spent giving him a new life and new connections and new, you know, new reason to live.

Anyway, that's how I feel about it. TL;DR Izzy's growth should have included LIVING HIS HARD-WON NEW LIFE and if I ever see djenks i'm going to cross the road and avoid eye contact.

[halfahundredcats]

There are so many times on here when I’ve seen a post where op is relating an astoundingly bad take they’ve seen somewhere, and I’ve always kind of been confused, like where are they even seeing this. I’ve curated my dash within an inch of its life, and I rarely see fandom discourse or drama except posts that (often vaguely) talk about it second-hand.

Well, I understand now, y’all. You probably weren’t seeing it on this hellsite. You were seeing it on a different, worse hellsite (namely, Twitter). Because I’m on Bluesky now, and while it so far seems to be much better than Tweeters, I haven’t yet had the chance to wield my block and filter functions as robustly, and I’m now coming into contact with some of those astoundingly bad takes.

I’ve seen comments on the DJenks Holiday Special Thread saying things like “Oh Stede understands now why Izzy was so mad all the time” and “managing Ed’s whims really is a full-time job,” and just. Fucking. No. No, Stede doesn’t relate to Izzy now because they are very different fucking people with very different fucking relationships with Ed. Being an angry dick has never been Stede’s way of doing things, with anyone, much less Ed. Stede’s brand is Sassy Bitch, and I feel like Ed isn’t even on the receiving end of that very often. Let’s not forget, it’s been two years, and they’re running the inn successfully. Ed is taking joy in setting up a beautiful dining table. He’s bragging *about Stede* when Stede breaks in to ask for his help. This is not a relationship plagued by constant disagreements. It’s not “trouble in paradise.” Ed saying he’s more of a “front of house guy” is clearly Dad slipping in a callback to the bts we all enjoyed so much. (Now it’s true that Ed is kind of ADHD-ing it in these scenes, hyperfocusing on setting the table and getting distracted in his storytelling instead of noticing Stede is slammed. I did see someone say that Stede is going to use his Captain Voice, and that definitely feels like the vibe to me.) It’s not like they’re never going to have little disagreements, but these two didn’t literally fight their way back to each other to be undone by the mundane pressures of running a small business together. And why would you want them to? Why would you want to look at this grand and beautiful love story and think “but consider how cool it would be if they ended up hating each other?” Do you watch The Princess Bride and enjoy imagining Westley and Buttercup’s eventual divorce? Not everything has to be drama and cynicism and people being terrible to each other. I especially do not think that David Jenkins is taking his Barbies in that direction in his fanfic of his own show.

I’m putting this here instead of responding to ppl on Bsky because I really *don’t* want to get involved in the Disc Horse. I’m just blocking ppl on there whose takes I don’t like. That is ultimately the way to enjoy your fandom. Focus on the stuff you like, don’t get bogged down arguing with haters. So this is probably the only thing I’ll say about this. Anyhoo!

[breathe-2am]

hey idk how to tell u this but the big cliffhanger in s1 isn’t the crew being separated it’s stede going out to find ed when ed has fallen so deep into heartbreak and self-loathing that he’s destroyed stede’s ship and split up their crew. the cliffhanger is about “how will ed and stede fix their relationship after stede broke ed’s heart and ed went off the deep end?”

bc what’s going on with the crew is not the main storyline. the main storyline is the romance between ed and stede, djenks has said this many times. the main plotline is the development of ed and stede’s relationship. the show didn’t “shove most of the characters into 1 minute scenes between much longer gentlebeard arcs” in 2.04, the crew was just part of the B plot that episode, which is to be expected because they are all side characters who are always in B or C plots if they’re not part of the plot with the main characters (ed and stede). the main A plot of 2.04 is ed and stede making up now that they’ve finally been reunited, and the show develops this storyline in a rewrite/adaptation/homage to the play who’s afraid of virginia woolfe.

it’s fine if u don’t like gentlebeard or if your main enjoyment from the show is izzy/the crew, but if that’s the case for you then unfortunately you’re always have a harder time enjoying ofmd bc the writing in the show is always going to prioritize gentlebeard over the other characters. the crew reuniting was always going to be much less important than ed and stede reuniting and making up. that’s what david jenkins meant when he said “the show is the relationship.”

Heyo! I see my meme has breached the side of ofmd tumblr I usually interact with, which is really cool! Thanks for stopping by haha

I think your response is so emblematic of the shift the show went thru from season 1 to season 2- namely, that season 1 was an ensemble show and season 2 was not. Stede was the main character, yes, and he got more backstory and focus than a lot of the crew, but the story of the show in s1 was that it was a bunch of people with conflicting personalities shoved onto a boat together. Stede’s the center, but every other character gets focus as well. This show, by djenks own admission, was not originally intended to be a rom-com romance between stede and ed. He said that he didn’t commit to actually have them be together until filming season 1 episode 6- more than halfway thru the story of the first season, and that it was mainly due to rhys and taika’s acting that made him change it from an unrequited love to a relationship. So while the story is a lot about gentlebeard, saying that every other character is secondary to them and their romance isnt true.

I think a great example to bring up would be season 1 episode 7, the episode that solidifies (via lucius) that yes, this is happening. This is a very relationship heavy episode, but crucially gb isn’t the only focus.

Here's a breakdown: we start w a 1:00 gb scene, then roach comes in asking about the oranges, which leads to a 2:00 scene w the whole crew that sets up the episodes plot (swede has scurvy, we need to get more oranges). Jim protests going to st augustine, which is followed by a 1:00 scene between jim and olu, including a jim flashback. Stede and lucius return with the treasure map, there’s 1:30 more of the whole crew, then we go into the captains cabin for 1:00 of stede, ed, and lucius. 6 minutes into the ep flashes to the crew on land, a 0:50 conversation between jim and olu, then 2:00 of the whole crew, ending then nana invites them all to eat some cake at 8:15. We then go to stede, lucius, and ed in the marketplace until the 9 minute mark (abt 0:45), then back to the church where olu and jim talk to nana for 1:15, including more jim flashbacks. Back to the adventure w stede ed and lucius, which is 2 scenes back to back, totally about 3:00 (the “oh my god this is happening” scene). Then back to the church for jim olu and nana, a 1:00 jim flashback inside a 3:00 scene. Then back to the captains and lucius for 1:30, then to jim and olu, more jim flashback, then the a and b plots converge at the 2:30 mark when jim sees stede digging up their tree. Stede, ed, and lucius exit the scene after 1:30, jim and olu have a conversation for another 1:00. We see the crew leaving, then olu and nana talk, which all takes 2:00. Back on the boat, ed and stede become co-captains in a 0:45 scene, then the final 1:30 of the ep is izzy at jackie’s with 1:30 credits

Gentlebeard: 9:00, whole crew: 5:30, Jim and Olu: 11:35, Izzy: 1:30, credits: 1:30

I would say that s1e7 is the most overtly gb episode before the kiss in s1e9. But as you can see, it’s not just gb. There’s a lot of focus on jim, who gets multiple filmed flashbacks, there’s scenes w jim, olu, and nana, there’s scenes of the whole crew together, stede and ed are really only oncscreen together for abt 9 minutes- not even 1 third of the episode. And this is the ep that says directly to the audience “yes, they have a romance building”. I’m not trying to say w this that every member of the crew needs to b given equal screentime, bc that didn’t happen here obv, but everyone is doing something, and the plot is moving forward propelled by more than just the gb relationship.

Now this is very much changed in season 2.

S2e4 starts with 0:20 of stede waking ed up, then 0:45 of stede and the crew, 0:30 of ed and buttons, izzy’s w the unicorn for 1:00. The crew kick ed off the boat in a 1:15 scene. Now at the 2:25 mark we get to the plots splitting. Ed has a 1:15 scene on land, 0:45 is spent talking to a bunny. Stede and buttons find anne and mary’s antique store after 0:45 of walking. The scene in the antique porch is 2:15. Back to the revenge where there’s a 1:00 scene where wee john, roach, and pete talk about how the kraken crew, lucius, and izzy are different, and the kraken crew thinks they’re plotting to kill them. Already we go back to anne and mary’s where theres various conversations for 3:00. We go back to the revenge for a 0:45 scene where the revenge crew scare the kraken crew and lucius by trying to surprise them. Back to land, where anne and stede and mary and ed talk for 2:00. Back to the revenge for a 1:45 scene w the crews, izzy enters at the 1:00 mark and then crawls away. Well that’s that, we go back to the dinner on land for 1:00, then ed storms out and he and stede have a conversation on the couch for 2:15. Anne and mary reenter, followed by a 3:00 argument that ends with anne burning down the house and they don’t kiss for some reason. We have a 0:20 scene of the crew preparing the unicorn leg, izzy is in his room and received the leg in a 0:40 scene, and well it’s been a whole minute on the revenge, time to go back to ed and stede for 1:00, ed and buttons talk end when buttons turns into a seagull after 1:30. Ed and stede talk for 0:30, and then we end w izzy the new unicorn for 0:45. Credits are again 1:30.

Gentlebeard: 19:50, whole crew: 5:05, Izzy: 3:10, credits: 1:30

To illustrate my point, i made some graphs

You don’t even have to think very hard to see the change in distribution of screentime season 1 vs season 2. And i’d argue that this is absolutely to the show’s detriment, because that ensemble cast is given way less time to shine, grow, or even speak. Notice how for the second chart there isn’t a jim and olu section? Yea that’s cause Jim has 10 lines this whole episode, and Olu has 5. Two characters, whose relationship, backstory, and plot takes up more screentime than gentlebeard’s in season 1, have a combined 15 lines between them, only 4 of which are longer than 1 sentence- 2 for jim, 2 for olu, and those lines are two sentences long. god bless us every one.

I get that there’s a large subset of the ofmd fandom that only cares abt ed and stede. I get that that’s how u find enjoyment in the show, and u know what? All the power to u. I’m not saying stop liking the show, stop liking gentlebeard, stop caring abt these characters. I don’t like gentlebeard, but i used to, and i remember really really loving ed and stede and their relationship in season 1. That changed in season 2 because of ed’s abusive actions and stede pivoting from being an independent character to just basically following whatever ed says (but that’s a story for another day).

But let’s be honest with each other, and with ourselves: season 1 was an ensemble show. Season 2 narrowed its focus to gentlebeard, while also making it (for some people) harder to like. That’s why a lot of people (myself included) didn’t like season 2 as much as season 1.

Also, just to focus back in on the original issue, the meme was not about gentlebeard. It was about Anne and Mary. And there is literally no way you can convince me that they were used as well as they could have been, or that they were implemented into the story in a smart, necessary, or even respectful way.

Because i'm a nice person, i made a brand new updated meme just for u, anon!

:-)

[iamadequate1717]

Stede in Season 1

After seeing some rather awful bad faith takes flying around after 2x7, I'm throwing out a beginning defense of Stede Bonnet (loml). It seems insulting Ed's fish is the worst thing that anyone has ever seen, and it really seems to be a continuation of anti-Stede sentiments within the fandom and viewing him as a prop for Ed (and sometimes Izzy) rather than his own character. Fanon Stede is ever patient, ever kind, ever devoted to his partner, and I'm seeing a lot of shock that Stede is a flawed, imperfect person with his own needs, that he says things in the heat of the moment, that people are seeing a less interesting character than what DJenks and friends have created. Stede's a fucking lunatic and I like it.

I'm going to break this into a few posts as I ramble on to the end of 2x7. I have big thoughts on the ending, but I need to lead up to it! I am going to try to be as brief as I can up to the lead up, but I'm not happy with certain parts of the fandom right now (it's just a spat, love you all).

(If you haven't seen the "I hate Stede!" and "I'm so mad at Stede!" posts after 2x7, I am so, so jealous of how you have curated your social media experience.)

Part 1: Season 1

I'm going to note first that this is really a more rambly companion piece of this:

In time budgeting, most of Stede's character introduction and motivations are built into 1x1 through 1x3, but you all know it is a common refrain of these episodes: "Just wait for episode 4!" (OK for newbies, but huge side eye from me with people who have watched multiple times.) Episode 4 is when Act 2 of 3 of Season 1 begins. The foundations of the story have been laid, the cast has been fully assembled, and we enter the rising action (i.e., the meat) of the story in 1x4. It is not that Blackbeard alone improved everything: it was the story structure itself that shifted.

Preferring Act 2 (ep 4 to mid ep 8) and saying Act 1 was bad and "boring" is a disservice to the story and really robs yourself of the payoff action in Act 3 of Season 1 (and now Season 2), in particular with regards to Stede's character. It's a TV show, so you don't have to like all parts or watch it equally, but if you're going to criticize Stede and what he does, you can't ignore the part of the story that tells you the why of everything.

For example, we see people saying Prince Ricky is "exactly how Stede used to be!". Episode 3 disagrees.

Ricky is some Evil Star Trek Mirror Universe version of Stede, and they have fundamental differences in their view of piracy, which feeds into the action of the tail end of Season 2: Stede wants to be part of the piracy world, but Ricky thinks he's above it. The few hours in 2x7 that Stede spends enjoying being cool in the Republic of Pirates is overall sweet (sliding past the murder, lol), not a relationship red flag or Stede being a dick. If you tried to join a group and they finally embraced you, how would you initially act? Being excited for a few hours does not mean Stede has made a forever commitment to piracy and not Ed.

But, I digress. To me, Episode 2 (along with 6, 9, and 10) is far and away the peak of Season 1. We see the crew bonding (and those unique interactions are missing in Season 2's truncated runtime), and we get a deeper look into Stede's head: his initial naivety toward violence, his insecurities, his unique captaincy style and problem solving. If I look at just his insecurities, Badminton's Ghost is Stede talking to himself (like Hornigold was vocalizing Ed's feelings in 2x3). Stede is harsh with himself about his abilities and maturity, and we even see that he took Badminton's petty body shaming in 1x1 to heart.

(Oh, I have thoughts on Stede finally being told he's pretty and then instantly dumped!)

But he continues to degrade himself.

"You're a child with a toy" Stede says to himself. Compare this to Ned Low calling him a "bumbling amateur" in 2x6. Real people voicing these thoughts (like Chauncey in 1x9) messes Stede up.

The local therapist clearly lays out the motivation behind 1x9&10, and Stede still continues with the negative self talk.

And then we get the best mantra!

Yes, baby! You can only be as good as you can be, and you deserve the world.

Stede does not banish his guilt that is haunting him, but Ed comes in at Episode 4, and any more serious feelings is all about Ed.

(Second GIF is a joke. I know it's important to Ed's character. Plz, don't be mad.)

Ed is the deuteragonist, and the story now needs to spend time establishing Ed's character and motivations. This doesn't make Stede's go away, but if you only watch Episode 4 and on, that's what it looks like. There are brief moments of Stede's vulnerability and guilt from then, but not much.

(Side note from a Midwesterner: I've spent too much time finding out if "grain tower" is colloquial for "grain silo" somewhere, and I still don't know.)

Ed and Stede just met here. Ed isn't absorbing much of Stede's comments (Stede also feels trapped, Stede has family guilt, etc), but it goes the other way, too, doesn't it? Stede is recovering from his gut-stab, they're still in a life-or-death situation, and Stede is still feeling his guilt (and just saw more guilt ghost hallucinations). Registering and internalizing what Ed is saying doesn't take priority.

And they enter their cute early relationship phase: They have fun together! They can easily talk to one another! Stede easily forgives Ed wanting to kill him!

Again: in between all the cute and fun, all the heavy stuff is about Ed. Stede deals with the aristocrats who mocks Ed. Stede is gentle with Ed's red fabric. Stede listens to Ed's past without judgment. Stede openly accepts Ed as a friend. We don't see Ed engaging with Stede in a reciprocal manner.

(I was so delighted when Stede called some of this out in 2x4.)

Stede is a few steps behind in their relationship: He doesn't know it's a romance. He doesn't know he was flirting with Ed. He's not immediately understanding what the Act of Grace was to Ed (hubby commitment!) as he's having his Nigel guilt, family guilt, and being seconds away from death swamping him all at once.

In the academy, Ed isn't even listening to Stede. He's moved onto his domestic marriage role while Stede is dealing with his demons.

With 2x7, I see people saying, "Ed was very clear in wanting to leave piracy!" If he was speaking to someone fully engaged with him, I would agree. (That also doesn't make Stede having a few hours' fun the worst thing ever.)

(Aside of what I see below: In Season 2, I see overwhelming praise of Ed and Izzy's performances and very little on Stede. This is not to disparage TW or CO, but Ed and Izzy are more in-your-face and obvious with what is going on internally in their scenes and they are nailing the drama scenes. However, Stede becomes quieter, shutting down into himself, when having high feelings, and RD's acting is very subtle and very beautiful in these moments.)

In The (First) Kiss scene, Ed is clear! He just wants to be Ed, and Ed is happy just being with Stede.

But look what Ed walked in on:

Ed is saying things, but Stede is trying to process big feelings of his own at the same time. Stede is there self soothing, still thinking about what Ed ignored him about in the bunks. "How are you handling things so well?" means Stede isn't handling it well. Ed is excited, but he (and apparently some of the audience!) is brushing off all of what Stede is saying while expecting Stede to take to heart everything that Ed is saying. (I mean, the beginning of S2 shows why Ed is so excited for this life change, but it is frustrating!)

If you only feel bad for Ed at the end of 1x9, please try to imagine Stede's perspective: suppose you have low self worth and are consumed with guilt about people you've hurt and then are seconds away from death twice, are you going to be thinking clearly and prioritizing (and recognizing) the feelings of a guy you've known for a few weeks and didn't know you were dating?

Stede has drawn inward this whole conversation. His answers turn monosyllabic, and his body language turns more and more panicy as the heavy reality of everything sets in.

Stede enjoyed The Kiss, but was this the appropriate time for him? (Like Ed enjoyed The Sex, but was that the appropriate time for him?) They aren't in sync yet, but that doesn't make one party's feelings more valid than the other's or one party evil for being a bit ahead.

With 2x7, I don't know why people thought Stede should be a mind reader and be able to quickly piece together a few statements Ed made while Stede was mentally drowning.

I think it should be noted that as of the end of 2x7, Stede is the only crew member who hasn't had mental reflection and/or therapy in Season 2. He realized Mary, Alma, and Louis didn't need him and he was in love with Ed in 1x10, but the voice calling him a child with a toy, an idiot, weak, and ugly is still there.

Continued in Part 2! (Still to come...)

[queerfandomtrifecta]

How Izzy’s Death Could’ve Made Basic Storytelling Sense

Just to be clear, Izzy is my favorite and I wanted him to live more than anything. This isn’t about that, and that is NOT why I hated his death. Had it served the narrative in a way that made even the most basic storytelling sense, while I’d admittedly have been devastated in a different way (i.e. the character whose queerness was relegated to the subtext in s1 and as soon as it’s textual and his whole arc is that he’s killed, but that’s a whole separate post…), but at least there would’ve been a correctly crafted arc from a surface level narrative standpoint that ended in the death of my favorite character. But that’s not what this is about. It’s is about how the show could’ve actually made the death actually make sense and work effectively. (Also, if you want my unasked for thoughts on how most of the existing plot of s2 (minus 7-8) could’ve easily been adjusted to fix the narrative as a whole and keep Izzy alive, I wrote this)

But. For those in the fandom insisting that Izzy HAD to die, including DJenks who has said as such in interviews (for reasons I do not understand), from an objective developmental editor standpoint, this is what I think needed to change to make Izzy’s death serve the narrative, character arcs and dynamics, pacing, structure, and thematic elements correctly.

It’s about 2K words just so you know what you’re gonna get into. Spoilers under the cut.

Issue 1. Izzy’s relationship with the crew and how they truly became his family this season totally vanished during his death scene. The same crew who he protected from Ed during the later, worse parts of the Kraken phase. The crew who banded together to save his life by hiding him from/lying to Ed about it, and amputating his leg to save him. The crew he saved by crawling up those stairs during the storm, hobbling out into the rain with one leg and shooting Ed before he could shoot a cannon ball through the mast and kill them all. The crew who called him “our dick”. The crew that then banded together with Stede’s half of the crew to him the leg and the new unicorn (aka the figurehead of the ship). That crew didn’t cry a SINGLE tear when he died. What?? Fang sobbed most of episode one and really lost it when Izzy got shot. Where was that when he died?? Izzy’s last speech to Ricky had something along the lines of: piracy is about belonging/family. We are Good. (Forgive me, I’m paraphrasing, but that’s the gist). Izzy truly did find his family in the crew outside of Ed. That was absolutely fantastic, especially in the first four episodes and episode six. It VANISHED when he was dying and dead.

The fix: To make the death impactful, effective, or even to make it make sense on a very basic acting and writing level, the crew should’ve been utterly DEVASTATED. At least heartbreaking music and like 30 seconds of everyone breaking down and holding each other. At least some of them crying and holding each other in the background when he was dying. Come on.

Issue 2. Thematically speaking, is piracy Good or Bad? Again, Izzy tells Ricky that they (the pirates/his crew) are capital G Good. Yet Ed has spent a lot of time maintaining piracy is capital B Bad. He tells the urchins as such. Here’s some money that I never had, now you don’t have to be pirates. Don’t be pirates. He doesn’t want Stede to kill Ned Low in cold blood. Ed just doesn’t want to be a pirate. Even at the end AFTER Izzy dies telling Ed he’s with his family (implied that this is the crew) and they love Ed, Ed LEAVES THAT FAMILY AND LEAVES PIRACY IMMEDIATELY. We’re left with him and Stede watching the family Izzy swore was Good and loved Ed sail away because Ed thinks piracy is Bad. Which is it?? The death served nothing in convincing Ed he could be happy with his found family on the sea as Ed, not Blackbeard, so the dying words were pointless. The thematic elements are all over the place (for the whole season but that’s another post) and that needs changing to make the death scene make sense.

The fix: Izzy should’ve told him he sees he doesn’t want to pirate anymore, he’s glad he’s found love with Stede because Izzy isn’t going to make it, go run your fokkin’ inn, you twat (affectionate).

Issue 3. Izzy died of bad planning and bad luck. Why didn’t they take the gun from Ricky? Between Spanish Jackie, Izzy, and Jim, SOMEONE would’ve thought about it. If not those three, someone else would’ve, but come one. One if not all of those three would’ve known better. Yeah, Izzy happened to be standing in front of Ed and he got shot instead of him, but you’ve gotta be REALLY looking for that to even be aware it’s what happened. It wasn’t even on purpose unless Ed strategically placed himself behind Izzy (which I doubt was the intent). Izzy didn’t position himself protectively/take the bullet for anyone on purpose. It was just happenstance and you only notice it if you’re rewatching and hyper-analyzing everything (which a lot of us, me included, in the fandom do, but casual watchers don’t. It’s totally unclear as far as the surface level narrative goes) Any sort of “heroism” is not acknowledged, it’s barely even noticeable in the shot. If that was the intent, it HAD to be clearer and acknowledged by the characters so the audience would realize the stakes and repercussions of clear choices. As it is, I don’t think it was intentional. If Izzy HAS to die, it should truly have rounded out his arc in a way that CLEARLY changed the course of the scene, leaving him to protect people he’d put in danger at the end of s1. It didn’t. It just read as terrible planning to the point of it being out of character for more than one character, and bad luck.

The fix: Izzy should’ve saved someone. I personally don’t like the idea of it being Ed. I’s have rather he save Stede (Not really, but it’s better than Ed I guess) But really Izzy should’ve died saving the crew. The crew makes the most sense to me, narratively speaking. He’s their figurehead, he’s protected the Kraken Crew for months and they should’ve been fiercely loyal to him, he blames himself for what Ed did to them (more on this later) so it makes sense for him to fiercely protect his crew. His family. Who should’ve been devastated that it happened because Izzy is the one character of the main three who’s managed to earn that status this season.

Issue 4. The death did not serve to move the plot along. There are literally zero things that would’ve been different for the end of the episode, save Izzy being alive and on the Revenge in his rightful role he earned with his crew as the captain, if he’d have lived. Ed and Stede aren’t partnering with Zheng to go after the guy who killed him in the next season. Nope. They got the offer but nah. They’re running an Inn. Which Izzy would’ve supported based on literally everything we’ve seen from him in episodes 5-8. The crew who Izzy protected fiercely and who viewed him as their leader? Not one tear during his death or the the funeral. Happily sailing away to do presumably more Muppet Treasure Island hijinks. No character development happened. No plot development happened. The season could’ve ended literally the EXACT SAME WAY with Izzy alive aboard the Revenge!!! No stakes were changed at all. No one was impacted enough for it to seem like it was even going to be a plot obstacle next season. It just happened, Izzy’s toxic situationship who maimed him multiple times over the course of months to the point of his leg needing to be amputated was sad for one (1) scene, then we moved on and did not seem sad at all at the funeral. What.

The fix: The plot should’ve been driven by the death. Ed and Stede (but especially Ed), and DEFINITELY the crew should’ve been sailing off plotting to avenge the death and defend piracy against Ricky and the British, especially with Zheng who lost her whole fleet. Ricky and the British are clearly (or so I hope, nothing’s clear here anymore tbh) the primary antagonist for the theoretical third season. No one should be running an whim-based inn for fun or sailing off happily into the sunset after the death of the most major character aside from Ed and Stede, who beyond proved himself a major part of something every character (his family) should’ve cared about this season. If he HAD to die, that death should have furthered the plot. But instead, it seems everyone shrugged it off with tears exclusively from Ed.

Issue 5. Izzy got shot in the left side. The side in which canonically NO ONE DOES FROM BEING INJURED ON IN THE OFMD UNIVERSE.

The fix: Yeah I know this is just too nit-picky but it was also just SO sloppy. Like just shoot him on the other side if he has to die, because this was a very memorable plot point more than once in s1. Like, come on y’all.

Disclaimer: Issues/fixes 1-5 would all need to happen together to truly fix it and make the death serve the narrative correctly. Issue/fix 6 is a totally separate route, which I personally hate, but at least the narrative would’ve made sense this way.

Issue 6. The idea that Izzy had to die so that Ed could be free of Blackbeard makes no sense at this point in the story. Ed already threw away his leathers and gave away his treasure to symbolically get rid of Blackbeard, and Izzy very sweetly encouraged him to follow the feeling that throwing out the leathers gave him. Izzy told Stede that he and Ed were good for each other. They balance each other out. Izzy is on good terms with both of them and their relationship, so Izzy “having to die” so Ed could flourish as Ed genuinely makes no sense and came totally out of left field.

The fix for 6: This one stands alone and is my absolute least favorite option, but if it HAD to happen without the 1-5 fixes, here’s how it could’ve made sense. If THIS is truly the way it was going to end, Izzy needed to be continuously antagonistic or avoidant to at least Ed and actually be shown holding Ed back from happiness until that last second. He wasn’t. He was so much better. Izzy clearly does blame himself (that’s for a separate post because I have lots of thoughts there) but to be fair they were both abusive in that relationship, for years it seems. Although I think by the beginning of s2, the power dynamic has clearly flipped and it was Ed who was doing most of it and Izzy was exhausted and knowingly “reaping what he’d sewed” (I don’t Blame Izzy for his abuse but I think this was his mindset) so the crew wouldn’t get the brunt of it.

If he seriously HAD to die because the writers just had to have it that way, those are the changes I think would’ve made the narrative work/make sense, served all the character arcs and dynamics correctly, and actually driven the plot as fictional deaths are supposed to, compelling things into a third season. Seriously, this season finale was a mess of baffling choices the most series finale season finale I’ve ever seen.

Anyway. There’s my unsolicited two-cents. Now back to hoping Izzy’s in the gravy basket waiting to be sea witch necromancied back by seagull Buttons in season 3. I love this show and I hate hating what I hate hating about it because it’s my absolute favorite and I can’t stand it because it’s fantastic and the worst thing I’ve ever seen. (Also, Izzy should’ve lived).

[saltpepperbeard]

Are you still feeling hopeful? I’m trying really hard not to feel demoralized these last few days…

Hi, darling anon! I totally understand where you’re coming from. We’ve been at it for weeks (almost THREE) and things have seemingly slowed down, there’s drama both in-fandom and out, and there’s just sort of an ever-creeping feeling of disheartenment. And on top of everything, it’s JANUARY (DEROGATORY).

But you know what? Despite all of that, despite it all, I am still clinging onto hope. Call me stubborn or whatever else lol, but yes, I’m still hopeful. I think I will be until I see Djenks wave some sort of white flag, or until a lot of time passes with no forward momentum. And even with the latter, I’ll probably still have the stubborn wish to get something like a movie or whatever else in the future.

Now, I’m clinging onto hope for a few reasons. One, and this is the most important one, we really don’t know what’s happening behind the scenes right now. I think that mentality can also swing into negative territory, but I’m using it to propel me into hopeful territory. We don’t know what all is being discussed, we don’t know if anyone’s interested, and we don’t know who all is fighting and how hard.

Again, could be twisted into a “nothing is happening” type view, but when I look at David? At Taika? And how much the show means to them? How passionately they’ve spoken out about it? And how gracious David and the rest of the cast/crew has been? Idk about you, but I’d like to think they’re trying to push for a continuation as hard as they can. *Stede voice* I don’t think…any of us have let go, actually.

Not to mention that the cast and crew have not stopped posting/interacting with renewal campaign efforts. David hasn’t told us anything that would allude to failed deals, and Ruibo still posts #SaveOFMD type things. It just feels like they’re still riding alongside of us.

Secondly, and sort of along those lines, I’m holding on to the knowledge that every renewal is different. There have been some giant campaigns with zero results, but there have also been smaller campaigns with success. There have been campaigns that have only landed a few more episodes, whereas there have been others that landed more seasons, a movie, etc etc.

Each case is unique, and really has to do with what’s going on behind the scenes. Why the show was cancelled in the first place, if the platform is willing to shop it out, if other platforms find it desirable/profitable, etc etc.

And I think along those lines also, there comes a mentality that makes people even more disheartened and sad. I think there’s this thought that if we’ve slowed down, if we’re not pushing enough, we won’t get renewed. And I don’t really think that’s the case; I don’t think renewal rests squarely on our shoulders like that. Because, again, I think a lot of it really has to do with money, and with negotiations between studios. I think we’re very good for visibility and noise, and subsequently, I think any sort of effort is great effort! I think any work that has been conducted is good work.

It’s also important to think about how we’re sort of in a transition stage of the campaign right now, too. Things are significantly different than they were just a week ago. There are campaign leadership changes going on, the focus is different, and new plans of attack are being ironed out.

So, we all just need to give ourselves some grace. We’ve done so much, and things have moved so fast, and the cast and crew have felt so loved. We’ve made it into publications, made it onto physical ads, and gotten the attention of outside entities (shoutout to Astroglide WJDJW). We’ve also all come together, which is VERY wonderful considering how divided things felt towards the end of October. We’re doing wonderful all things considered, and so for that reason among a few others, I’m still hopeful.

Also, there’s this post by @pehmokoira that goes into even MORE detail of why we shouldn’t throw in the towel/lose hope.

SO. TLDR, there is a lot weighing down on “the atmosphere of this ship,” but I still encourage you to keep those fingers crossed. Help maintain the momentum however works best for you. Take a break, take a step back, and take care. But keep that stubborn little fire burning if you can 💜🏴‍☠️

[alex51324]

That Tweet, take 2

OK, so my first reaction to That Tweet, by Djenks, was as follows:

My money is on DJenks realizing that he shat the bed & now furiously trying to write himself out of the corner he's in. (My second guess is that he basically already knows there won't be a Season 3, but there's some network or business-related reason for not announcing it yet.)

But now that I've had a bit more time to think about it, I am kind of seeing a scenario where he could've intended it to be a fuckery all along.

Step one is that we imagine him being a bit disappointed by how Lucius's death fooled absolutely no-one. It's likely that he was planning for the reveal that he was alive to be a much bigger moment than it actually was; maybe he even has some Big Reveal ideas that he had to put on ice once it became clear that there was very little actual suspense surrounding Lucius's fate. This is, obviously, since I don't know him personally, a big hairy guess, but it seems like a very plausible reaction for someone to have, when they put a lot of effort into planning a surprise and it falls flat because everyone guessed it.

Step two is him deciding to sell Izzy's "death" a little harder, with the emotional death scene and the funeral (where we do not actually see the body, and a mourner, Wee John, is missing) and all. It's laying it on a little thick, in my opinion, but again, we did all confidently (and correctly) assume that Lucius was alive based on the evidence that "this show wouldn't do that" and "The Stede-Ed reunion won't work if he's really dead," so you can see how a showrunner could, hypothetically, get to--

Step three, is Djenks opening up his socials at the crack of dawn on Thursday morning, expecting to see reams of speculation and analysis about how Izzy could have survived, and being genuinely shocked to instead find seas of angry and devastated fans suggesting that he should perhaps give up television in favor of a career in going and fucking himself.

Step four, realizing that he drastically overshot the mark re: creating genuine suspense over character death, he tweets out a big obvious hint.

I don't love this interpretation--for one thing, there is nothing in the episode we saw that would provide a plausible in-universe reason for faking Izzy's death. It would be pretty easy to create one--have Prince Ricky No-Nose vow personal vengeance against Izzy Hands in specific for calling him a syphilitic cunt/his role in foiling the "end of piracy" scheme--but we did not see anything like that. To make the funeral scene work as a fuckery, it would be necessary to insert a flashback between the "death" and the funeral in which A) this happens, and B) the other characters find out about it. That's a cheap trick that I personally hate--the old, "Haha, I made you feel a thing by deliberately withholding context"--but again, if it's an overcorrection for the complete and abject failure of the effort to create suspense around Lucius's fate, I guess I can live with it.

If Izzy's death is a fuckery, that addresses a lot of the other problems with the finale. First, Ed and Stede's obviously-doomed, harebrained scheme to give up piracy and be innkeepers (in a dilapidated shack, on an island where we see no other people or settlements) is plausibly funny, as long as we aren't thinking that Izzy died for it.

Second, the tonal whiplash of going from the funeral to the wedding is also fine if everyone involved knows perfect well that the guest of honor at the funeral is actually recuperating just offscreen.

(Thirdly, there's Captain Frenchie--I haven't seen much discussion of that, but the only problem I had with it is that I can't think of any moments from the season where he stood out as being a leader for the crew. I might've missed something; he's not one of my particular blorbos, but it wouldn't have taken much, just something you can look back on and see how it was setting up him becoming captain.

And, crucially, we do have those few little moments of setup for Frenchie as First Mate to Captain Izzy. Frenchie was there during the dark days, during which he presumably underwent some skill development, pirate-wise, and definitely bonded with Izzy to some extent. We see him holding Izzy's hand during his breakdown, and he presumably helped hide him and definitely lied to Blackbeard about it, and then how they were sitting in the cell on Zheng's ship--it isn't a whole lot, but you can look back and see why it makes sense for Izzy to pick him.)

Making Izzy's death a fuckery doesn't do anything to fix the way the whole Zheng thing fell flat. (Why give her a massive fleet in the first place, only to take it away? Why did we get those scenes of ships being towed across land? What was she doing selling soup on the Republic of Pirates? For that matter, why did she come to the Caribbean in the first place, after becoming Pirate Queen of the Chinese seas?) It doesn't help with how Ed and Stede keep repeating the same beats of getting closer, then running away, then reuniting without ever talking about their relationship or their issues. It doesn't address why the Kraken Era had to go that dark, if the whole thing was just going to be smoothed over in the space between episodes 4 and 5, and how Ed never really takes responsibility for any of what he did.

However, middle installments of trilogies are notoriously difficult to write, and it isn't particularly fair to judge them before you get to the last part. Most of the weak points could look better in hindsight once we know how it all turns out.

(And, not for nothing, as long as Izzy is alive, we can still get something where Ed reckons with the Kraken Era, and particularly-but-not-exclusively what he did to Izzy. I don't see how that works with a dead Izzy, though--it's too easy for Ed to keep minimizing what he did and offloading blame onto him.)

There isn't a whole lot of evidence for an Izzy Lives scenario. All we have is:

This Show Wouldn't Do That (which, recall, was point 1 in why we didn't believe Lucius was dead. However, it is weakened by the absence of point 2--unlike with Lucius, the person who "killed" Izzy isn't a character we're expected to like or root for.)

No body at the funeral. I initially interpreted the funeral as being intended as proof that Izzy was really dead, a sort of "don't get your hopes up, guys," after what happened with Lucius. But again, if we're thinking about the framing of Izzy's "death" as an overcorrection to how completely non-fooled we all were by Lucius's, maaaaaybe not? I mean, if he really wanted to hammer the nail into the coffin, we would have seen Izzy lying in the grave, or his body being sewn into a shroud of sailcloth (as was the custom), or something. (Also, point 2b, the unicorn did have two legs.)

No Wee John at the funeral. There are certainly Doylist reasons he might've been left out--maybe the way the shooting schedule worked out, it saved money or some other resource to just leave him out of that scene, something like that. But for an in-universe reason, "somebody had to stay back and nurse Izzy" makes a lot of sense. (I mean, if this show operated on real-world logic, someone would have had to stay with the ship, but that's never been a concern before.) Wee John helping Izzy with his makeup for Calypso's birthday was presumably a bonding experience that involved some vulnerability on Izzy's part, so it would be weird for him to just nope out of the funeral, but plausible that Izzy would find him acceptable as a caregiver.

Stede and Ed's conversation over Izzy's grave could, just barely, make sense as a conversation about how Ed and Izzy are now on separate paths, with no particular guarantee that they'll see each other again. It takes a certain amount of massaging to make it fit, but it almost could? (Except Zheng's part really doesn't--unless the grave actually contains someone Ed cares about, or she isn't in on the secret that the funeral is a fuckery.)

I'm not in love with any of this, or even particularly convinced by it--my enthusiasm for any Season 3 is going to be pretty dampened, unless the announcement that it's been picked up includes the information that Con O'Neill has a contract to appear as a major character in all 8/10/whatever episodes--but IDK, I guess it's maybe not outside the realm of possibility? Ish?

[piratecaptainscaptainpirates]

To the person who sent me an ask worrying about this article from Consequence TV maybe being the start of OFMD being cancelled, I accidentally deleted it so I'm responding here!

Tl;dr: absent any other information, I'm not worried about it. When I first saw it, it was paired with a headline that said somehting along the the lines of "Taika Waititi hints he won't be returning for OFMD season 3," which seems to have changed and just isn't actually said anywhere in the article itself.

The first part of the article is immediately a bit scary:

When Consequence asks writer/director/actor Taika Waititi if he’s feeling optimistic about a third season of Our Flag Means Death, his initial response is this: “Have you seen the end?”

While this looks scary, I encourage you to stop, breathe for a moment, read that again: crucially, that's not really an answer to the fucking question, and it's presented without context or even any indication that was TW's full answer. It's such a vague opener and without any follow-up it's practically meaningless.

The next parts of the article that a lot of people are concerned about are these paragraphs:

Max has yet to announce plans for a third season but Our Flag Means Death has become a fan favorite for its loving portrayal of its core relationship between Ed and Stede. For Waititi, though, the Season 2 finale “feels like a natural end to their story. Just because I feel like, you know, they’ve been through so much and then wind up in that nice place at a happy ending.” Waititi calls Our Flag Means Death “a really special show,” adding that “I love the show so much and maybe it can survive without Rhys and I. Maybe, I don’t know. I do I think the character of Blackbeard is something I’m really proud of.” Waititi says, though, that “I don’t want it to feel like Rambo III suddenly, you know, when you’re like, ‘Oh man, they have to leave their idyllic life again.'”

When I first read that headline, I was obviously like what the fuck, but when I clicked the link I immediately dismissed this whole article. I'm a person naturally given to anxiety and over-thinking - I'm not saying that to dismiss anyone who is worried about that, I'm saying that to emphasize just how contextless and clickbait-y this article is.

It's important to remember two things: OFMD is a mainstream property that is still generating a lot of traffic due to speculation on whether it's going to be renewed, and Taika Waititi, as a person, attracts a lot of divisive media attention that is often very clickbait-y in nature. He's also the biggest name attached to OFMD.

If we look at this article, all of TW's lines are presented to us out of context. We are not given the questions he was asked or told anything about when this interview took place (other than after the finale, obviously).

A breakdown of what TW says with possible, more likely context:

"The s2 finale felt like a natural, happy ending for Stede and Ed." This is true, and we also know this was intentional in case the show doesn't get renewed. This is not new information.

"Maybe the show can survive without Rhys and I." This is what people are (understandably) worried about, but this is both not a firm statement of "I don't want to come back for s3" and completely devoid of context. A possible explanation is that DJenks has mentioned possible spin-offs; TW could be here referring to spin-offs that don't involve him or Rhys Darby. As an executive producer, there is literally no way TW doesn't know at lesat the broad outline of DJenks' plan for s3.

"I don't want it to feel like they're leaving their idyllic life again." TW doesn't want Ed and Stede's story to be beaten to death, he wants it to have a satisfying, happy ending. Again, this should not be surprising information, it's just presented in a way that makes it seem like he definitely thinks s2 should be the end of Ed and Stede when that is not what he says.

This article is completely devoid of context, and because of that I consider all TW's statements in here to be essentially meaningless because we don't know any of the questions he was asked. I believe the most logical context for these quotations were him talking about the finale and how it was satisfying in case they didn't get s3, speculating about possible spin-offs, and then talking about how he doesn't want the story to be one of those TV shows that go on too long.

A bit of additional context: Consequence is, primarily, a music review and news site. They have a TV segment, where this article is housed, but music is their main focus and they are not a website where you expect to find actual breaking TV news, let alone from big names like TW. Larger film and TV publications we've seen covering the recent release of Next Goal Wins, in comparison, universely refer to the OFMD s2 as "successful" and refer to a "likely" third season - for publications actually focused on TV, the predominant view seems to be that OFMD is successful and a 3rd season seems very likely.

This article is very clickbait-y and tells us absolutely nothing. It absolutely does not say that TW is uninterested in returning for s3 (in fact, it says the opposite, he repeats again how much he loves the show) or that OFMD will be cancelled.

We're okay. Even if we do get news that OFMD hasn't been greenlit for s3, I promise it's not going to break on Consequence TV of all places.

[xoxoemynn]

One thing I've discovered is I'm genuinely incapable of speaking about OFMD in the past tense.

It's never "it was a beautiful show." It is a beautiful show.

It's never "I loved this show so much." I love this show so much.

It's never "the cast/crew were so great." The cast/crew are so great.

Now, if I'm talking about a specific moment, there may be some exceptions. ("They were so in love here." "The writers did such a good job with this scene.")

But anything to indicate the show is simply done, in the past? Nope. Simply cannot be done. And on the rare occasions I find myself writing something in past tense, I'll stop, squint, go "that's not right," and re-work the sentence entirely.

And you might read this and go "ok, your clown wig is a bit too tight there," and maybe it is. I'm not going to lie, I'm right there with DJenks hoping we get to see how this story ends, and I do think we have a solid chance of it once this dumpster fire of a streaming landscape finishes devouring itself.

But that's really not what this is about. To me, OFMD isn't just a finite, 18-episode show that's over and done, that gets put in a box and shoved away, forgotten. It's infinite. It is.

The love continues, the excitement continues, the hope continues, the story continues. I can see our crew just over the horizon, and I do hope one day we get to call them home and we'll see them on our screens again. But even if we never do, they'll still always be right there, waiting.

It's a show that's all about hope, about how it's never too late for love and happiness and acceptance.

And I'm going to hold onto that for as long as I have to.

Crew for life.

[adickaboutspoons]

Put your tiny hand in mine

So about the "father figure Izzy."

"You're my only family" landed like a sucker-punch with me when 2x8 first aired, leaving me bewildered, disgusted, and more than a little angry. Izzy as Ed's family? Since. Fucking. WHEN??? At BEST, Izzy was a shitty, insubordinate employee whose absence bothered Ed not one jot or tittle, and whose entitled possessiveness led him to think he could control Ed through threats of escalating, and eventually state-backed violence.

But more bewildering and alienating than that one, infuriating line has been seeing the fandom discourse embrace that idea, first with some people claiming that it's what they've been saying all along (I don't want to call them liars, but I have been in the fandom since April 2022, and it was not a take that I saw before the end of s2. But perhaps it was something said on a Discord I'm not privy to, or on twitter or something; I do most of my fandoming right here, and my feed is heavily curated, so there's a non-zero chance that it was a popular take that just never floated into my orbit), then slowly but insidiously becoming the predominant take, with its adopters going so far as to say that the dynamic has been there all along, that it was clearly always the intention of the writers that we read Ed's relation to Izzy that way, and that anyone who denies the dynamic is clearly willfully reading against the text. And all of this in the wake of a pull quote from ONE Djenks interview where he said the words "father figure." *sigh*

So the last time I looked to DJenks interviews for insight into his and the other writer's thought process I got taken to task for poor media literacy and not understanding that quotes can be misconstrued or taken out of context and that reporters have agendas to which they bend the narrative of their articles, and that when creative are giving interviews, their job is to sell the product, not necessarily convey their deepest, heart-felt truths. Which? Didn't love, but fair enough - it really is important to hold one another to account and make sure we’re not just seeing what we want to see, and context IS important. But I also hope that we can agree that if one uses similar or identical verbiage in more than one interview, across venues, with different interviewers, and across time, then it’s reasonable to assume that really IS a what the person thinks, or, at the v. least, a decided Talking Point that one is comfortable being the Official Narrative regarding the creative process. So with that in mind, y’all are aware that DJenks has some v. specific insight about exactly when the idea of “father figure Izzy” came into the writing process, right? (In the interest of not being accused of taking things out of context again, I am providing the date and the venue so you can look it up yourself if you like, the question immediately proceeding the quote, and DJenks' response. The only alteration I have made is bolding the relevant text)

Oct 26, 2023, EW: A lot of these characters have evolved over two seasons, but it seems like Izzy has gone through one of the biggest evolutions. He went from being so dismissive of the others to being a key part of the crew. What interested you most about his arc? Jenkins: You know, I didn't expect him to become kind of a father figure to Ed. I think we hit on that while we were breaking the [final] episode. He's in such a weird position: He's like a jilted lover, and then he's a middle manager who has to work for a terrible boss. He gets thrown away, and then he comes back. He really develops, and he becomes a part of this family. I think the biggest surprise was the extent that he was a mentor to Ed. They were both Blackbeard. They both made Blackbeard happen. Oct 26, 2023, Paste: Speaking of that funeral, Con O’Neill played Izzy’s journey across two seasons so beautifully. When did it come to you that his last words to Ed about just being himself were going to have such an impact? Jenkins: It’s kind of a strange arc in that I knew we were going to put him through all these things, and I knew he would ultimately die. But I think him becoming a father figure to Ed in the last episode didn’t really dawn on us until we were breaking the last episode. Asking what would this man say to Ed at the end because they’ve been together through everything? He went from a troubled and downtrodden employee to a jilted lover to a discarded employee, to someone that is just trying to find his footing again—no pun intended—to actually becoming this guy’s parental figure on some level. And he’s one person who kind of raised Ed right, because Blackbeard usually kills his parental figures. So, it felt right and it felt like that’s how the mentor dies. The mentor in a story usually dies in the second act and then our hero has to go on and try to do it without them. It felt like the right journey for Izzy and a gratifying one for Con Oct 26, 2023 Vulture: It seems like it took being almost at death’s door for [Izzy] to be vulnerable enough to receive and understand that kindness without reflexively telling them to fuck off. Jenkins: Both Izzy and Blackbeard have ego deaths this season. And on the other side of the ego deaths, weirdly, Izzy is a father figure to Ed. It’s such an unusual journey. The character is kind of a jilted lover who then becomes a maimed and discarded employee and emerges from that into being a father figure who says as he’s dying, “You’re all right. Just be you.” Oct 26, 2023, Variety: “To kill a character is such a big thing, even in a world that is this violent,” Jenkins says. “We had to do justice to Izzy, and to that relationship between he and Ed. There is a nice parallel to have Ed treat him so badly at the beginning of the season and then come all the way around to where Izzy is this sort of father figure he doesn’t want to lose — because Ed usually kills his father figures.”

So. I think it's more than clear that the writers stumbled into the idea of Izzy being Ed’s father-figure while writing nearly the very last part of the very last episode. It was never the intention that the character be read that way in the first season, and, as far as I can tell, they didn't even bother retconning what they'd already written in the second season to organically lead to that conclusion.

But, oh my v. dears! Take my hand. Close your eyes. Make a wish. Count to three. I’m here to tell you that NONE OF WHAT DJENKS SAID MATTERS when it comes to analyzing the text of the show as it exists in the wild. You can and SHOULD be just as dismissive of what he had to say about the intentions of the writers as, no doubt, a number of you have already decided to be dismissive about what I have to say. The author is dead! Long live the interpreter! Because, just because it wasn't intended doesn't mean it's not there in the text. After all, Alex Sherman also once said the writers didn't intentionally write Izzy to be racist, and if you're following me (which, lbr, is the only way anyone is going to see this), I think we can all agree that is v. much Not The Case. If you find significance in the idea that Izzy was always a father-figure to Ed all along, and find compelling in-text arguments to support that position, that's fantastic. I love that for you! I disagree, but that doesn't make you bad or wrong - but neither does it make me, or the others like me who were gobsmacked by "you're my only family" and for whom the "father figure Izzy" take holds no water wrong; it just means I have different criteria by which I qualify the term “father figure” than you do, and find the relationship between Ed and Izzy falls short of those metrics. So maybe cool it with the "rip to everyone who's mad about Izzy the father figure" rhetoric? I promise that not everyone who finds the way Izzy's arc was handled in S2 less than satisfactory is a canyonite making bad faith arguments to justify why they're mad they lost their blorbo.

[three--rings]

Unearthing this draft from Oct 26th. I didn't post it cause I didn't want to be totally negative. welp.

-----

I'm going to bed, she said. Sure.

So reading Djenks interview, he does NOT sound like a man who thinks he will get a S3.

There’s always a chance, if viewership is good. I think we all need to figure out what era of television we’re going to be in when we come back and who can afford what. I like our odds. It’s a cool show. We have a really good following. We have a passionate fan base. Max has been great in terms of publicizing us. I’d love to do another season of the show. I’m sure they’d love to have a reason to do it again. You can feel like it’s special making it. It would be nice to be able to get everybody together again for one last shot at it.

And i think that shows in the writing.

[midnight-laundry]

wrote this on twitter but i figure i should put my meta on the meta website

been thinking about the last episode’s title, and how this could apply to edizzy/steddyhands. warning: i’m very confidently wearing my clown makeup and wig and shoes and nose so buckle in.

where edizzy stand rn, it makes sense to want them to end things and move on, but does that really address the source of their dysfunction? when you’re young or just starting to understand relationships, it can feel like the best thing to do is end things whenever they’re no longer easy or supplying you with as much dopamine as it used to. but as you get older, and hopefully more mature, it could become more likely that you’ll look inward instead.

obviously, there’s a line between actual awful abusive relationships that should absolutely end, and flawed relationships where the ppl in them lost their way and stopped trying as hard. i’ve seen some ppl argue that izzy in the relationship IS abusive (i don’t agree, obviously, esp with ed as the one with the power between the two of them) but viewing their interactions and the way they’re familiar with each other, i really don’t believe that.

these two are in a dysfunctional spot when we meet them, “discomfort in a married state” “trouble in paradise” and so on.

ed is tired of blackbeard, tired of the role he plays and the life he’s built. but the show doesn’t try to tell us that /izzy/ is the reason life has gotten like this for them. it makes it clear that this ennui is a result of ed’s own unhappiness and restlessness.

piracy has gotten boring, he’s tired of the grind, of the constant planning and scheming. for ed, it feels easier to glomp onto this new guy and to run away to china. but better metas than this one have delineated why that wouldn’t have solved his issues, and the edstede relationship would’ve blown up eventually, either by ed becoming bored once again, or stede resenting that he left piracy after his “career” had barely even begun.

izzy has his own plethora of issues he needs to face, too. while he could leave ed and find another captain, what would stop him from repeating the same mistakes he did with ed? dedicating his life to one person, devotion without reciprocation, lashing out when the person doesn’t live up to the be-pedestaled image iz has in his mind?

what if, instead, edizzy can find a way to actually… change… for the better? what if izzy sees a different way forward than just “the only retirement we get is death” and is allowed the space and safety to find it? what if ed is given the chance to figure out who he actually is and what he wants, if he were to understand why he feels so restless in the first place?

could they learn to see each other as a whole complete person? not as just a loyal dog (izzy) or a wrathful god (ed) but as a lover, a partner, a confused man trying to make sense of the cards they’ve been dealt?

stede will have to go on his own empathy journey, but I’d love to see edizzy figure it out without stede. there’s still something there, these two built a life and it must’ve worked for a while for them. i think there’s still something there worth salvaging.

because “wherever you go, there you are” and learning to be better to each other would be how they can get somewhere else, because then they’d be /someone/ else. and what better way to fix their mistakes than with the person they’d initially made them with? i don’t know if this makes sense but: tl;dr edizzy should fix their relationship bc it seems to fit the show’s thesis of “talking it through” and dismantling previous notions of “how things are done”

edizzy are salty sea dogs but could still learn new tricks. and also djenks should give us steddyhands as justice for all the sad pirate threesomes that never came to be