#( sabine: discourse. )

[spaceediasporaa]

I know some people might not like the whole “Sabine training to be a Jedi despite not being super force sensitive” thing but I honestly think it’s really cool. It’s expanding what being a Jedi is, it’s showing they’re more than just space wizards, they’re a religion, a people- being a Jedi isn’t about having powers it’s about your training and how you live your life. I think it’s very cool and I like the idea of nonforce sensitive Jedi

[maeaniseyas]

The Star Wars fandom has never gone this hard or been this invested in any Asian or Black character, ESPECIALLY a Black woman. The Star Wars fandom has never been going this hard for an interracial relationship involving no white people. So for me yeah, it is pretty telling that now is the time some people are deciding to declare everyone lacks media literacy because allegedly we can't tell or admit a man is a bad person because people are sooo blindsided by his looks.

It's the same exact way people adore Anakin/Vader, Maul, Kylo, Revan, Shin, etc. But now that a South East Asian man is playing the Sith y'all suddenly have to "suffer" seeing him a lot and people enjoying his character? When I called out the person who made the og post, they said "I didn't mention Qimir and wasn't only talking about him" like k bro....I know you think everyone but yourself is an idiot or something but just know I'm not and that I know there's no coincidence you literally TAGGED that post as "the acolyte". The claim it was only tagged as "The Acolyte" because it's the "most recent example" is total BS. You purposefully tagged The Acolyte, Acolyte Spoilers, Qimir, Osha Aniseya, ALL OF IT because you weren't talking about the fandom with ships and dark side characters as a whole, you were specifically talking about The Acolyte, Qimir and Osha.

And yeah, it definitely does feel racially coded. Everyone knows this show, the creator and the actors have been enduring a MASSIVE racist, misogynist, and homophobic hate campaign against this show for literally over a year before it even aired, and you have people making posts about how UNBEARABLE it is that they're going to have to see the fandom be obsessed with a sith played by a handsome Filipino and be excited over Oshamir, an interracial ship involving no white people but a Black woman and an Asian man, as if Star Wars fans have a good track record of treating characters of color well. It IS adding to the overall negativity of the show and convincing others not to watch it for your petty little reasons when this is without a doubt the best show Star Wars has released yet on Dinsey+ and by far the most diverse. Have any criticisms you want about The Acolyte, it's totally fair, but this "criticism" I'm referring to was just an attack on people enjoying the show, claiming stupid shit like a "lack of media literacy" over something everyone already knows like the fact Qimir isn't a good guy. Here's something that might shock y'all: we know, AND WE DON'T CARE.

Anyway I hope Oshamir, Qimir, and Osha continue to pop up on these peoples timelines and continue to make things unbearable for them. Because if enemies to lovers is all good when it involves someone like Shin and Sabine, but not when it involves Qimir and Osha, then you're a hypocrite and not to be dramatic your life deserves to be unbearable if that's really what does it.

[armoralor]

people obsessed with cishet ships: You see this character that's a man? Well, every woman around him is secretly in love with him. Each and every one want to settle down with him, buy a house, and raise a nuclear family.

normal fandom enjoyers: Sure, I guess. But maybe some of them are just friends? Like, platonic non-romantic companionship? Not all of those women seem to be interested in that kind of thing. Plus, what if some of those women are queer and trans; surly not all of them want to marry and have kids either.

people obsessed with cishet ships: Why do you hate women!?? Why do you hate mothers? You're such a misogynist for saying women can't be soft and motherly. Why does every women have to be a lesbian???? Why are you pushing an agenda? I'm going to throw up, this is so gross. You pointing this out is bullying!!!! And YOU'RE transphobic for wanting a character to be a lesbian. People who like shipping straight characters need to come together in SOLIDARITY because of these MEAN gays.

[that-one-loth-cat]

Genuinely one of my favorite things about Sabine Wren and Ezra Bridger’s relationship in canon is that it’s ambiguous. As far as I know, the only thing thats been confirmed is that they mean a lot to each other. Anything else is technically an individual interpretation or an AU.

And I love that! It means that everyone can have their own idea of what’s going on. (Those ideas are all so interesting btw 👀) I just wish we as a fandom could be kinder about it.

See them as siblings? Go ahead. They’re both their own brand of chaos and it’s marvelous. Ezra has extreme younger sibling energy (in my opinion), and I love that he and his sister grow closer as they get older instead of drifting apart.

Think they shine best when they’re just friends? That’s so valid tbh. Strong friendship bonds that don’t include romance (but have the same level of commitment and/or intensity) aren’t super common on screen, which is a shame because there’s so many interesting angles to explore. These two are ride or die for each other by the end of the show. We know that. I’ve seen people saying that this was only possible because Ezra was able to grow out of his crush and I love that way of looking at it.

Hardcore Sabezra shipper? I don’t blame you. It’s a fun ship! Watching rebels with that pair of shipping goggles on is incredibly entertaining. (And gut wrenching. Oh my goodness. The idea that she realized she loved him right before the final attack on Lothal has me on the floor every time I see it)

Right now, the “what’s their deal?” puzzle has no official right answer (other than good friends, which I think most people agree on anyway). I feel like we as a fandom are so mean to each other online over something trivial and that makes me really sad.

TLDR; I feel like Sabine and Ezra’s relationship has a lot of valid fanon interpretations because of how ambiguous their canon relationship is, and I wish we could be nicer to each other about it.

[obiwanwhat]

I’m really really hoping that Dave Filoni does not blink in this game of “Jedi Sabine” chicken. Like if he pulls a “oh ho she was force sensitive this entire time!” I will be so disappointed I desperately want “yes she’s a jedi. No she’s not force sensitive. No we will not be elaborating”

[thedujifuji]

he looked like he was from a ps4 game

[im-no-jedi]

SWtwt continues to be as lovely as ever. main topic rn is Andor vs Ahsoka discourse about which show is “better” (even though they’re literally comparing apples to oranges 🤪). also someone made a post comparing Ezra and Sabine to Cassian and Jyn, going so far as to call them both “platonic relationships” 🤨

honestly the best thing going on rn is the Space Jesus jokes about Ezra. I even saw one that was like “what everyone thinks Jesus looked like” and it was a pic of AotC Obi-Wan, and under it said “what Jesus actually looked like” and it’s a pic of adult Ezra ROFL

[meetmyintenseescapes]

I never saw them that way. I always reckoned it was a mildly unrequited school boy crush on Ezra's part. And annoyed older sister for Sabine.

Even as a bisexual woman, I don't get buzzed when people fall for the bare minimum to ship to characters together. Like if you are doing way more work than the show is to show these two characters even like each other I think you need to hop off the ship and find something better.

Shipping characters together should ideally be rooted in an genuine, identifiable chemistry and depth within the narrative, rather than based on fleeting moments or superficial traits. I feel like all too often, fans are left grasping at straws, reading into the tiniest of interactions and extrapolating them into full-blown relationships. While there's nothing wrong with using one's imagination and creativity to fill in the blanks. It's a disservice to the characters and the fans when the source material gives only the barest hints of a relationship.

This is literally the biggest reason I couldn't ship Kara (from Supergirl) with any man. Because all too often the writers would have her either show the most mild bit of interest in a man leaving the fans to do the heavy lifting or having a antagonist relationship. But with women her interests and chemistry clear from the first scene they were introduced. This isn't just about pushing a ship for the sake of it. Fans aren't daft; they pick up on genuine connections. If Kara's vibing more with ladies and there's a tangible spark, then why force something that ain't there with the fellas?

True representation is not just about quantity but quality. It's important for media creators to craft thoughtful, multi-dimensional relationships that resonate with viewers on a deeper level, rather than leaving them yearning for something more substantial. And let's be honest here Star Wars is not the place for that. After all, the best ships are those that sail effortlessly on the waves of genuine connection and storytelling, rather than those that are pushed along by wishful thinking.

Red (From OSP) has brought this up recently and the thing clicked in my brain why I don't like most (straight) romantic relationships in media. With the idea that two people of opposite sex can't just be friends always confuses me. One of my best friends Ryan is a sweetheart and we never saw each other sexually. He's a tall athletic guy who coaches high school football (soccer for the Americans) and I'm a dorky girl who reads way to many star wars books. And for the longest time people assumed we were dating because of how close we were. Hell reading that little description of us, probably got you thinking about it.

"Sabine. Thanks for coming. I can't wait to go home."

Ahsoka: Far, Far Away (2023)

[radioreprise]

makes fun of kat for going online specifically to get mad at shitty people being shitty. turns around and has to set my phone down and take some deep breaths to convince myself not to tell someone to kill themself on anon. iwasnicetoday.gif

[armoralor]

One of the worst aspects of the Ahsoka show is all of the people who love obsessing over shipping kids in Star Wars are coming out of the woodwork again.

"Ezra was so in love with Sabine in season 1-" he was a child.

"Sabine probably thought Ezra so hot-" she was a child.

Characters can have crushes and puppy love, but being a full grown adult and hyper-fixating on kids liking each other is so fucking strange.

[ald3r-wolfcak3]

Adding to the whole native theme with Sabine, she not only mention that other kids don't let her play, but how they dare to have fun when GED is ruining the island, which also support the idea that she is in fact based on the said stereotype. The enviromentalist message isn't bad on its own, but from Sabine is just blatant hypocracity which also shouldn't be a problem if sse bother to write her character, they should show why is it not enough only saying what is bad, but action is the only one that can cause any change.

But as Dorian said they use her as this sesonal mascot and worse they go with the over sexualisation which I am baffled because this game's target audience (based on the story and it's overall message/gameplay) is 6-13 years old kids! Their website show signes that this game is safe for kids and the overly sexual marketing of an adult woman character is not something I like to see from a company which claims they care about these young kids, especially girls!

Being horny for a character as a fan of a character is okay, we have the platform for it (tumblr, tiktok, ao3) and I think adult players should share their unhinged thoughts with other adults, but not the company, never the company that made the character itself.

Especially not a character which reak from harmful sterotypes and ill minded message due to lack of writing. Those kids would see those post and since they are lack any critical thinking they just go with it and even will question those who are talking about that how the character designe/message is not okay, but instead what they are seeing? The company doing it, the base media they are love and care about doing it on their official chanels so it's okay, right? Then they will shut themself out any convo because they are confused and start acting out harshly to protect the thing they care about, instead to listen and learn something!

I am dissapointed because they can do better there was example when they did better, but I guess clout is much more important than the game they "try" to make.

I really want to hear all your points regarding hating Sabine I’m super curious.

I don't really hate her as a character, I hate how she is written.

I could start off with the fact that she's an incredibly aggressive, "beastly" character who is also non-white, with native american features, which is a harmful stereotype against native americans (See: the violent savage stereotype, not only something apparent in media (Twilight, for example), but real, tangible racism and propaganda in the united states that is still rampant) and even if she's not native american, she's still an aggressive, beastly non-white character, but I don't know if I am the person to make those claims.

Moving on, she's just poorly managed by the company. She's an evil murderer, a person lacking empathy, someone who seeks to destroy Jorvik and all it holds dear because she is promised power... and she's upset that she doesn't get to play with the other kids on the playground. She doesn't like how the riding clubs are mean to each other. She releases balloons because people are having fun. She's either the darkest, most twisted person on the island or she gets her feefees hurt because other people are having fun without her.

The way they write her, she becomes an extreme hypocrite. The other riders are bad and mean for not letting her participate in the games? She imprisoned someone in a world that would slowly and horrifically kill them. Think exposing someone to severe radiation damage knowingly and with malintent. Yet Loretta is a meanie because she thinks Ginny's outfits suck.

The other part of it is the community response. She is sexualized only and merely for her body, with her audience completely ignoring her character, her traits, her personality and her arc, only really acknowledging her "dark" side if they can sexualize it. "but they did it to ydris too", you might claim, ignoring that ydris knowingly, consensually flirted with the main character and took on the persona of someone who enjoyed and wanted the attention. Sabine would hate sabine stans, and the stans ignore that and push her personality aside because she's hot. It's incredibly demeaning to boil her down only to her body and then act as though she is something she's not, namely a person capable of loving anything other than herself and her quest for power, something that is well established in the lore of her character.

The social media team, in response to the fan admiration, has played up Sabine's character and her appearances on their social media sites, and the fandom has gone so far as to influencing the writers into making her more easy to enjoy. The writers (there are no writers at SSE, but that's besides the point) have gone back on what Sabine is meant to be and represent so that the fans will engage with their story more, and the socmed team has pushed her to the forefront of their existence, making several tweets and tiktoks about her and how hot she is. I personally believe that this goes against what any self-appointed feminist company should be doing, and that SSE has a wonderful cast that deserves the spotlight far more. Jill Goldspur, for example, is a queen and she deserves recognition.

All in all, I don't hate Sabine, I hate everything that surrounds her and, as such, I wish she would simply disappear from the story so I don't have to fucking deal with it anymore.

[jessequinnfirstofhername]

controversial opinion (I don't think it is tho) : I think people who hate on Shin are kind of unreasonable to be honest? It seems the core hatred for the character was born when the wolfwren ship got celebrated by the stars of the Ahsoka series, by conflicting ships. The idea she is a "bloodthirsty, violent, psychopath" is... not really founded when you look at every minute she is on screen. She is on the opposite side of a war, so yes she kills people who see as "good", but there are no moments in the series where the villainy she is accused of truly comes out.

The truth is that aside from cool fights here and there, Shin doesn't talk that much and doesn't make that many decisions that are not someone else's (her Master's.) So the very few words she does say and the very few decisions she does make on her own matter all that much more. The fact Filoni made sure that the stab wound made to Sabine is visibly at an angle certainly explained her survival, but it seems people who hate Shin reject the nation of asking themselves "why stab someone non fataly?" Because yeah... why do that? Another few moments is her pursuing her fight with Sabine in her rage, stopped by Baylan. And last big action she commits on her own is questioning her master about the promise he made to Sabine. Breaking the promise achieves their goal, there is little since to questioning it if ahe is as evil and bad as she is framed to be. She doesn't have a clean slate, but people can love Anakin for commotting the jedi equivalent of a school shooting and they can love Maul for killing plenty of beloved characters. Shin's crimes pale in comparison for the level of hate she gets.

My opinion is that she is villainized this hard because certain people think that if Shin is bad and evil and crazy, she won't be shipped with Sabine Wren. And when you hate a character for what people think of the character inside their heads... you kind of lost the plot?

I just think so many people are missing so much of the mysteries and intrigues around Shin specifically. Baylan knew the jedi order, he knows the millenias of history between the sith and the jedi, but Shin? She wields a red lightsaber and has a jedi padawan braid. When she talked about a jedi, she said "just like me." She has no conception of this hard solid line between light and dark, she sees opposing goals, she doesn't hate the jedi, Baylan certainly seems to have no hate for them and he is her master. Clearly he never taught her something that goes against what he fundamentally believes. So we are left with a New Empire hired padawan of a former jedi, who cannot draw the line between the light and the dark fully, who relates to a jedi and value to some degree promises made to them, who now has to confront the other side in a serious way to know where she stands in the full big picture of the fate of the galaxy. COME ONE THIS IS SO COOL.

Why so much hate? All for a ship? Shin to me was the highlight of the Ahsoka series. Many speculate she will be a jedi and I think they may be right, I think Baylan and Ahsoka are different shades of grey, and their padawan are destined to choose to be jedi like those who trained their masters. Or maybe their own separate shade. People summarizing Shin as a villain to vanquish really seem just focused on keeping Sabine away from her, but whether they remain nemesis or become allies, it is a bit ridiculous not to think they are doomed to have plenty more of story between them.

I like Shin! I also like Wolfwren, I think it's a cute ship.

However, I'm not really involved in the fandoms (or the anti-fandoms) for either, so I don't know too much about The Discourse. I can't really speak much on this issue.

The only thing I feel confident speaking on is this: the fact that Shin is scrutinized for actions that are far, far less severe than what- for example- Anakin Skywalker has done probably has less to do with Wolfwren discourse and more to do with plain old sexism.

If Anakin Skywalker was a female character, we'd live in a world where the character would not be being brought back for nostalgia, and her actress's career would've be destroyed.

A female Hayden Christensen never would've gone on to do movies like Jumper, and there would be no female equivalent of The Haydenaissance.

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox.

That was a really interesting ask, Anon. I'd love to know what people more involved with the Shin/Wolfwren fandom think!

[clonebrainrot]

Okay another thing that bugs me, but this is much more of a nitpick than it was an actual complaint. This is about Tales of the empire again. Why stab Barriss at all? It’s clear she isn’t going to die. What’s the point?

And yes while Barriss and Sabine are stabbed in non fatal areas compared to Jinn who is stabbed on the middle of the stomach and spine. I do have to say the discourse around this whole stabbing controversy is so ridiculous that I wish Lucasfilm wouldn’t do it just because it causes unneeded controversy. If you want to have lightsabers do something. Cut off a characters hand. Or leg or whatever. Don’t continue to stab them in the torso where we know the controversy machine will start right up again. Honestly I feel like Lucasfilm is baiting these people and while that would be incredibly funny. I do think it’s time Lucasfilm abandoned the fake out death trope especially when no one believes in it anymore.

Again this is much more of a nitpick. Then my previous complaints other than the Darth Vader post earlier which was more just me talking like this.

[angst-is-love-angst-is-life]

THIS

THANK YOU

Season one Ezra would sing “You belong with me” at the top of his lungs

Also I would like to add; just because someone headcanons that a character listens to a certain song, album, artist etc. doesn’t mean it’s the ONLY thing they listen to. If there’s two T Swift songs in their Spotify playlist what does it matter to you?💀

The next time I see someone claim that Sabine Wren is a Swiftie, it’s on sight

[liquidorcard]

(About that last anon) I'm tired of people trying to play white knight for Native's (First Nations). It's not racist to draw a fetishizer wearing brownface. Others may find it offensive but at the end of the day it is making fun of Lily.

I want to be charitable here and say, I respect the fact that there's a fine line here and I acknowledge I'm dancing close to it. Not to make this blog sound more high minded than it is, but, that's kind of the thing with comedy. Getting close to the boundary between funny and offensive without going over it-- which, you know, fuck ups happen you have to take responsibility for. Can't be a little bitch about it.

The internet is both a somewhat uniquely hostile place for comedy in the way platforms encourage knee-jerk, bad faith, inflammatory responses and the ways in which fuckface pissbaby grifters can monopolize that environment to hide away from genuine criticism.

I spoke about this before, I made the decision to redirect my jokes towards my "Liquid Orcard" character, pretending to be human as the punchline rather than her specifically pretending to be First Nations. You know, just to put a little distance between my jokes and the genuinely harmful rhetoric around blood quantity discourse-- just to make sure they're reading right.

But like, there's landmines everywhere. There always is. Lily is a trans woman, and portraying a trans woman as an inhuman creature could also be twisted into being transphobic. That's not okay inherently in every context either.

Lily knows this. This is her bread and butter. This is the basis of her whole dog and pony show.

Just pointing out the fact that she's had a history of predatory behavior, can't be trusted around minors, has a history of abusing her partners, etc. could be twisted into a transphobic and racist attack.

I've SEEN it used as a genuine transphobic attack against her and by association, the trans community as a whole (which Lily never says shit about, I'd like to point out. Sabine, who also pretends to be POC online when they're really white, has called Lily a "pedophilic troon." She apparently doesn't give a fuck when it's them.) Because what Lily actually looks like has been public knowledge for as long as she has I've never really seen anyone take the claim she's POC seriously for obvious reasons, but I'm sure if she was, there'd be genuine racist shit online about her too.

I want to make it clear I'm not implying Lily is ALSO pretending to be trans. I believe in gender equality-- men, women and enbies alike can be shitheels. We can all respect her gender identity while pointing out she's a right-wing, basement dwelling, anti-social, absolute high priestess of goonfunery.

But she knows she can hide behind the smokescreen of genuine transphobic whinging. She knows she can cry racism if she sticks to the lie her white ass has experienced discrimination from being visibly of colour. Dare I say, she's subtly encouraged it. The fucked shit about bigotry is that it enables anti-social behavior for minorities aswell in certain circumstances. The fucking victims of oppression are always people who want to be a pro-social, positive, productive member of society. Who have to fight for the right to live their fucking lives as honestly as possible. This is the design of the industrial machine.

It's not a totally invalid question to ask in all circumstances. And though it's hard for me to always . . . Totally empathize with, I get the internet allows access to people who come from, let's say, more sheltered environments to see things they don't have full context for. As a trans person myself amd for the sake of my POC family members, in today's political climate, I'd encourage people to have a healthy skepticism against the kinds of things Lily is being accused of. Within reason. It's fucked, but this is the shit-pit grifters and outrage merchants put I all in.

But like, if you know who Lily is already, you know it's 100% a valid fucking thing to take the piss out of her for. The context tracks. And, with all do respect, the reason why that other anon thought there was a difference between just stating Loly is doing brownface and an image making fun of Lily for doing brownface is because humor gives it a bit more of a punch.

[bosooka]

Y’know, I love platonic Sabine&Ezra, and even prefer it to Sabezra, but...the appeal of Sabezra fics, for me, is that they are 100% dedicated to the idea that Sabine and Ezra are the most important people in each other’s lives, and that their trust and relationship is deep and profound and fundamentally shapes who they are as people. Which to me is the appeal of the ENTIRE dynamic in general

the thing that bothers me about this eternal and undying “they’re SIBLINGS why can’t a girl and a boy be FRIENDS you STUPID HETS” discourse is that you open up the gen tag for Sabine and Ezra and there are a good handful of really amazing fics about them, but the minute Ezra or Sabine are given a love interest, even in passing, their relationship becomes subordinate to that romantic pairing. I’m hardly going to complain about this when the fic is about the other romantic pairing because I’m not an asshole but, like, IDK, if y’all are going to actively complain everywhere about how cringy it is to ship Sabezra, put your money where your mouth is and write fics where they’re not in a romantic relationship and they still mean as much to each other as they do in the canon material. Where are the fics about Sabine and Ezra living together as platonic life partners? Do I seriously have to do everything myself???