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katyahina · 5 months ago

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Romina, Scarlet Rot and God of Rot interpretation? What is the Abyss and what 'stagnation' has to do with Scarlet Rot?

(This is a reply for an ask I've got on my other blog) Anon I am sorry I am THIS late, I swear it was just me deliberately avoiding progressing in the DLC because I didn't want it to end + bad timing :pensive: But thank you for leaving this ask because I did want to discuss her as soon as I've met her!

What Happened:

She WAS a victim on Messmer's tyranny, and shown in the second trailer ( x )! Moreover, she originally appears to be from Belurat; not only this trailer shows Messmer specifically burning it, but also this is the exact previous scene before Romina appears:

So I am getting an impression that originally, these buds appeared in Belurat, and somehow Romina knew to relocate them somewhere else:

+ Also, if anyone here can read Japanese please let me know because I've heard that a more accurate translation would be 'she found a divinity and clung to it' or something alike! Here is the Japanese text:

全てを焼かれた教会でロミナは異形の神性を見出し禍々しい、朱い腐敗に縋った

焼け跡に、また蕾が芽吹くように

Abyss and Stagnation in this:

My initial interpretation was that originally, this type of buds was growing IN Belurat, and then what she saved got relocated in Rauh Ruins, but "within the scorched remains" part makes it sound as though their fate was being decided right in the moment of the tragedy! So, somehow, what later became Scarlet Rot appeared within the ruin! After all, Formless Mother is another precedent of a god originating from the tragedy:

But why would a plant-insectoid life sprout within the fire? So, basically, I'll dive into headcanons territory for this post, but hear me out! We are not sure what the 'Abyss' is, however.. what IF, when Messmer gets a bit TOO into using his powers, the power of Abyssal Serpent is capable of opening sort of a 'gateway' into somewhere else, and some kind of horror might escape that 'Abyss'?

+ I need to add that Abyss of the serpent plaguing Messmer and Abyss of the woods tormented by Frenzy are different things though; whereas serpent's Abyss is 深淵 meaning literally an abyss, Woods' Abyss is 奈落 that means Naraka (Hindu Hell)! His serpent is AKTUALY named Base Serpent, but he refers the 'Abyss' in his Stage 2 transition: '光無き、深淵の蛇が'. ( x ) In fact, his dialogue in both English and Japanese original suggests the 'Abyss' is a PLACE, where Base Serpent comes from! The mysterious space without light!

Look I can't help using this meme just deal with it fdsgfdgs So, let's say that Messmer got so unhinged that the gravity of his powers still opened up the Abyss a little, even despite the seal Marika gave to him!

The next interesting thing is that there are no traces of Scarlet Rot in Belurat, despite Romina presumably releasing/creaing it right on that spot! There ARE poisoned swamp, the illness that turns people into fly-men, and even giant Spider Scorpions that are a variant specifically developed because of Romina:

+ they likewise deal regular poison, not Scarlet Rot! Some of them developed the wings as well:

So it is more likely that what Romina allowed to live (to the worse or to the better you decide) was not yet the Scarlet Rot itself, however it developed INTO it later, together with her. But what was freed that day and what left its traces in Belurat, as well as spreading across more of the Shadow Realm with at least two villages full of man-fly sickness, was 'stagnation'!

It is a concept commonly addressed across other Fromsoft's games, specifically the stagnation of water 穢れ (kegare)! Poison and Scarlet Rot are connected through themes of poison AND stagnation of water! It is what becomes a poisonous swamp, one of the most Rot places is literally named Stillwater Cave and all that. Scarlet Rot is a 'stronger' version of the venom that becomes of stagnation!

^ (looking through this ( x ) model view video) Additionally, Romina features not only part of the scorpion but also part of the centipede, and centipedes were used as a symbol of human dregs in Sekiro and Bloodborne!

I've also noticed that Blood of Formless Mother, Scarlet Rot and Deathblight are all connected by shared themes of plantlife and spontaneoutsly sprouting winged insects! With the cursed blood, flowers quite literally grow from it and flies spawn from impurities within festering blood swamps. Deathblight are literally roots with multiple flies spawning along them + often getting to fly free too. Scarlet Rot IS associated with flowers and butterflies, and whereas Malenia herself never got insectoid wings (since wings of Goddes of Rot ARE the butterflies, like stated by Romina's incantation), her knights did:

(Close look by Zullie the Witch ( x ) as I've never took a picture)

These three scourges feel like three ugly siblings to me fsdhhfds Needless to mention that Blood Oath, Scarlet Rot and general poison incantations are crammed into the same category, and Death ones aren't here only because they're sorceries!

More interestingly, in Rauh Ruins we find not only Scarlet Rot, but also the Bloodfiends (so, the Formless Mother guys) AND Deathblight:

^ I forgot to take the picture as a proof that the Dancing Lion in Rauh uses Deathblight, so here is screenshot from this ( x ) video of battling it! There are NO Deathroots anywhere near its arena, however it summons Basylisks in the second stage and deals Deathblight damage itself! Divine beasts, additionally, are Belurat thing too!

So, we have all three of these 'affiliations' in Rauh Ruins, giving a strong impression that it is full of Belurat survivors! Whereas the man-flies sickness is found here too, Romina, Bloodfiends and death-dealing Dancing Lion all feel like they've went separate Pokemon Eevelution from the same initial 'stagnation' concept that is the sourse of fly sickness fhhsdgfds I think that either 1) it is exactly what I just joked about, and stagnation is able to naturally develop into one of these stronger "branches" over time or 2) it develops into something specific under influence of an outer god; Deathblight doesn't need 'Prince of Death' since Outer God of Death IS a thing!

Survivors of Belurat here found their affiliations, initially getting afflicted by the "clean" form of it, fly sickness Romina allowed to escape and live!

^ So yeah @ second anon, I do also think that Romina in Rauh guards what is left of her civilisation! Such as one of like, two Dancing Lions and other Hornsent that unfortunately got manfly sickness too! Except, she is not antagonistic to the Scarlet Rot or sees it as her tragedy, but on the contrary: she sympathised with it!

I know it sounds more like a fairytale than an solid theory, but my impression is that a lot of 'waste' goes into the Abyss space and supposedly should have been burnt by the Base Serpent forever! Not as something inherently evil, but just a natural part of the course of life! Eiglay is the God-Devouring serpent, too! Both of them serve as the forces that ensure everything and everybody meets their end eventually, they might even be related! Again, Dark Souls for one had ten Primordial Serpents! We know three here (Base Serpent, Winged Serpent and God-Devouring Serpent) but it could be still a throwback like Fromsoft loves doing!

I think maybe someone, at some point, believed that living forever was a better idea and might have "killed" Base Serpent and Eiglay both! As we know from Rykard's last words though, 'serpent never dies' and he probably was right!

^ Whereas Eiglay had to grow back from a tiny snake again, Base Serpent settled in Messmer's body being so tiny that it could curl behind his eye! Both needed to recover their former power, so whatever eventually slipped in the Abyss was free to persist, rot further and escape back into the living world given the chance!

+ bonus:

Trina ends up having a lot of petals and flowers as part of her body, not unlike Romina, whereas Miquella had insectoid wings at the moment of being kidnapped! The same trademarks of the 'stagnation' again!

I questioned whether it was just Crucible at first, since it also features flowers and wings! In the DLC we've learned that the Fell God himself was connected with the Crucible (Furnace Visage) and Radagon has his red hair due to the curse of his Fire Giants (Giant's Red Braid) 🤔 But.. crucibles are MANY things. It is also horns, spikes, feathered wings, scales, you name that! A LOT of aspects of organic life and not just these two! So I think the Crucible Curse is safe to stay within Morgott and Mohg, and this more likely refers to Miquella himself getting infected at some point! Whether it was having sucked Scarlet Rot out of Freya's wound, or napping in the Haligtree that was getting slowly scarlet-rotten, or both! Sure there are no traces of it left when he becomes a God, but Trina was discarded before that of course! Alternatively, he was a victim of stagnation himself due to not being able to age physically. He, himself, was a lot like Scarlet Buds that are "never to bloom". Endless child state of a body and buds that can't bloom are like eggs that can't hatch but will go terribly bad over time.. what is MORE stagnant?

Who is the God of Rot and why the pink color?

Another side of Romina is a tail of a scorpion, and the giant variant of Spider Scorpions is said to be the result of her actions! At the same time, God of Rot itself was scorpion-like!

I think this makes it... oddly coincidential, that God of Rot is a scorpion at least partially, whereas scorpions are native for the Shadow Realm AND were important animals for Belurat! Like I said before, Belurat strangely has no signs of Scarlet Rot for a place where Romina presumably created/unleashed it!

So, maybe rather than God of Rot already existing as is, it received a particular form in the 'outside' world! I'd say the same for Formless Mother, but her form is ABSENSE of form kind of fdhshdfs Maybe 'receiving the character' is a better way to describe it! Formless Blood, Scarlet Rot and most likely Deathblight didn't exist "outside" but developed from the shared source, and their gods (at least two of them) were born thanks to people! God of Rot might have manifested from a giant scorpion Romina took special care of, or a scorpion who got the 'divine' energy for another reason since giant variants are still not JUST in Rauh! Again, like how Formless Mother manifested in the shadow of a corpse of someone else! The Scarlet Rot became a thing thanks to Romina, developing within her over time!

Again, this is just my idea that Outer Gods are "born" in "our" world rather than simply exist as is, especially since 'outer' is just a type of gods meant to be discerned from Marika's family and who are like Lovecraftian mythos! I just think so because the scorpions connection is a bit too coincidential! It is not necessary!

Eiglay is a God-Devouring Serpent, not Demigod-Devouring Serpent, however, so I think in either case her purpose had more to do with not letting guys like this to ruin the world! Things just must die eventually, not endlessly exist via endless rot/rebirth cycle not allowing for any truly new life to sprout. It makes it double awesome that Base Serpent, and maybe even Eiglay herself, are connected with the fire element as fire itself is ALSO not just an evil force of destruction! It is meant to help the nature to "clean" so it doesn't rot; this power simply must be kept in check to not burn SO much that there is nothing left to be born from the ash and ruin *looks at Frenzied Flame*

Lesbian flag colors joke aside, it seems that color pink is a mark of lacking the master and/or the capacity to bloom! I do think that blooming is a thing only a Demigod is able to do! +remember that Millicent is a unique sprout of Malenia, carrying more of her signs as a Demigod than other girls!

Orange/red is the color of 'true' Scarlet Rot, and you could see even God of Rot itself was orange from Scorpion's Stinger look! It craves the buds that will bloom to grow stronger and increase, similarly to how Formless Mother craves wounds!

+ I also think that Bloodflame is the mark of more "perfect" form of the same concept similarly, as it becomes self-cleaning this way! It similarly could only be accomplished by getting a Demigod (Mohg) involved, whereas regular Bloodfiends are using just the blood itself! Then, Deathblight was not receiving the big roots as we could witness by Dancing Lion in Rauh, without getting a Demigod (Godwyn) involved! The cringe triplets........

________________________

So in the conclusion, Romina reached out for the 'twisted divinity' she witnessed somewhere in the middle of the ruin of everything she knew before, similarly to how Bloodfiends chose to revere the 'twisted deity' found in a corpse of their ancestor as they've lost everything! These two affinities have connotation with strong misery, and it is additionally confirmed by how Millicent can only bloom if she experiences the pain of betrayal! Some sinister power only appears within a lot of pain and death, but on itself it is just "flowers and wings", and a concrete God is born in the place it appears at, depending on the circumstances. It needs the miserable person as much as the miserable person needs it; a call is nothing without the receiver. Together, they define more specific purpose and affinity for it to continue existing and poisoning everything!

...not 100% sure that Deathblight is just as similar, because how do you birth death? Maybe it similarly came to be through the first person to die (Nito, you?????)

P.S.: I'll be damned if the water Dancer Fairy didn't originate from Rauh and simply freaked out upon seeing Romina telling the God of Rot "may you find your worth in the waking world" fsdhfhds

#elden ring #romina saint of the bud #god of rot #base serpent #elden ring theory #screenshots #elden ring headcanons #elden ring observation #elden ring reference #ask replies #not art #text post #a post that is self-explanatory for dark souls fans fsdhgdfs #fromsoft has the unique way to use the same tropes without it getting uncreative #also reminds me of the 'a winged god a voice and a terror will appear' from ebrietas' song lyrics lol

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katyspersonal · 1 month ago

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can I ask about the furtive pygmy… any information you think is important to know! I got into dark souls this year and have been very curious about the role this character plays (also, are they related to manus? I have seen a lot of people often mention them together, so im wondering what the case is!)

Ahhhh, yeah, the fURTIVE PYGMY, SO EASILY FORGOTTEN

Yeah, this "character" only appears on the screen once... well, maybe twice, because there is also this very gay significant statue in the Ringed City at the end of the world, where Pygmy Lords did go:

Though this might reflect Pygmy as folks in general rather than that person, as well as it is unclear whereas Gwyn is giving the Pygmy here the crown OR taking it away!

The "Furtive Pygmy" gets mentioned only once in the intro of Dark Souls 1 and directly never again, and appears to be featureless, raceless and genderless 'idea' of a humanoid rather than someone concrete, albeit with proportions and height notably more lanky than those of an average human! However, the Pygmy are not "just" like this! For example, here is an average Pygmy Lord:

They are very dead because you find this corpse in the condition where the time itself was forced to outrun itself (you'll get there eventually, not sure how far you are in the trilogy and lore). However, you see the clothes and hair! It WAS a person with features! I think it makes sense for progenitor of all humans, which 'Furtive Pygmy' IS, to start out as an 'idea' of a human rather than someone with concrete traits, but they might assume particular form later down in life!

As for connection with Manus, the most likely version is that Furtive Pygmy who discovered the Dark Soul and created the Humanity from it IS Manus! This is what Kaathe has to say about Furtive Pygmy:

Kaathe is a person as old as Frampt, who knew Gwyn in person:

So, basically? Manus himself could not have been that Dark Lord figure who was born amongst humans in the end, despite Gwyn's fears, and simply predated us if we chose the Dark Lord ending! Because then, Kaathe would have instead mentioned that there was a Dark Lord, who got defeated or something along those lines, and now Kaathe seeks another! And whereas Kaathe does mention that everyone "failed him", Manus himself was not that "failure"! The problems started because of those who disturbed Manus from his grave (!):

Sorry I forgor to screenshot Gough's dialogue If Kaathe wanted Manus to be the Dark Lord, then why THE heck would people of Oolacile "drive him mad" to the point of his Humanity running wild?Because grave of Manus IS pretty human-sized:

In either case, is not it... odd, that Kaathe was seeking to turn Manus into the source of the Humanity running wild, as opposed to making Manus succumb to Dark like it was with the Four Kings? 🤔 He could not claim Manus to be the failure when he was driven mad under his request to begin with! This mess, if anything, was planned. And if we think that long ago Manus was someone Kaathe turned to Dark but Manus "failed" him, then why would Kaathe want to awaken him again? The "failure"?

It makes more sense that Kaathe was seeking his darkness rather than himself! I think that waking Manus up was needed to MAKE the Abyss spread, and from THAT point Kaathe was even able to offer it to humans to begin with! Four Kings are simply an example on the forefront, as they had fragments of Gwyn's soul, but sounds like multiple others tried to follow the Dark and failed.

And... this IS thing with Manus: he is way, WAAAAY too powerful and significant to be simply a very strong human that fell for Darkness once. Like, Four Kings are not even close! The darkness of the Abyss itself, as well as Humanity itself, originates FROM Manus!

Guys I beg you screenshot EVERYTHING while you play it is so embarrassing aaaaaaa Like, this is already stupid powerful, don't you think? Who else can create the dark of the Humanity itself just like that? Not to mention how his influence was so strong that humanity within humans in 1000 yards distance from him reacted by running wild just like his does!

Dark Souls 2 also puts something in perspective! All the Lords (and Seath, apparently) are "reborn" in Dark Souls 2 into new forms! Mostly in spirit but hear me out!

The Witch of Izalith, after the destruction of the Bed of Chaos and after killing her new form, is eventually reborn as a little bug/parasite thing, but by the time of the game, she has found a host in the Lost Sinner; a woman imprisoned for a great crime but forgotten by time itself. Nito is destroyed but his essence comes to inhabit dark and abandoned places. In fact, he somewhat returns into the form of a great mass of desperate Hollows who had been thrown in the Gutter to fester. So he is somewhat reborn as the Rotten, who is said to be accepting of all those who are discarded. Nito was drawn to the forlorn and wished to embrace them.

Gwyn returns too, his essence seems to inhabit the fire of the earth. He has become "Ichorous Earth" as the game implies. The Iron King built his empire on the power of magma and smelted… well, iron… but after trying to give life to the fire and iron, the resulting abomination incinerated him and flung it into the lava where he had built his keep on top of. There, his remains and soul came into contact with the essence of Gwyn, and perhaps due to how similar they were, the two merged into a gigantic demon-like monster.

That would sort of leave out the Four Kings (just some guys with fragments of Gwyn's Soul) and Seath, right? But Seath also persists after death, and I guess it is fair enough because he is at least an Everlasting Dragon! He exists simply as a "Writhing Ruin" as the game puts it. He is an influence that can be felt, but not seen. And it is that influence that would control Duke Tseldora's pet spider and transform her into a giant monster, all so that they could reach the buried dragon corpse and its scale, useless to him now.

....and I cannot back up any of this shit in my screenshots dump fashion because like I said, I spoke too soon about being able to return to playing Dark Souls 2 haahaaaa! Okay it has been fixed by the time of writing this post (I owe @val-of-the-north and @fantomette22 my LIFE!!!). But yeah, notice how someone is still missing from the list? You could even say that someone seems to be........ FORGOTTEN 🥁 if you never send me another ask I won't blame you lol

Manus is reborn in the form of emotions he felt upon his death (want, loneliness, anger and fear), but notice how all important Lords of the Dark Souls 1 + one on their level like Seath make a return so far! So, what exactly makes Manus be on the same level as the first Lords, if he never discovered a Soul nor was offered enough of Gwyn's? Well.. I think in this case, most likely, he DID discover a Soul! Furtive Pygmy should have made "a return in spirit" in Dark Souls 2 all the same, and he DID!

There is also the fact that all these "reincarnation" are now known as 'Old Ones', and Manus is likewise referred to as 'Old One'. The 'old one of the Abyss'. He is very much someone on the same level, which he logically could only be if he is Furtive Pygmy! I guess I just strongly rely on the consistency from the devs, and really, Dark Souls 2 team never flopped! If anything, this game helps to understand Dark Souls lore in general a whole bunch.

Not to mention that whereas as you can see Pygmy and humans are absolutely interchangeable concepts as far as Dark Souls 1 goes (nor anything further on retcons it completely), Manus is referred in lore as "primeval" human! It has an awfully similar ring to "your human progenitor", right?

He might have been the very first Pygmy, or might have been among the first ones of this kind! After all, Lloyd is an uncle of Gwyn, despite Gwyn's stupidly significant status for the form of the world itself! Everybody appeared from the Dark towards the Light, and even that fourth "dark Soul" discovered by 'Furtive Pygmy, so easily forgotten' is a flicker of light and much smaller than others! It refers more to the power of world-shaping rather than the nature of Soul, like how Nito was shown already dead when he discovered his Soul but now he was capable of infecting the rest of the world with death! Similarly, Gwyn didn't create the Light but became what emanates it, and Manus did not create the Dark but became what emanates it. His Japanese title is 深淵の主, マヌス and 主 means lord/master/head/supervisor/etc rather than 'father'!

What he DID create, though, is humanity! So, I think it is fair to acknowledge him as a primeval human rather than a Pygmy! And he moved from that 'featureless' initial state it seems, as he wielded the staff and wore a pendant he cherishes so much. (.....actually, now that I think of it, I should check full Japanese dialogue, because knowing localization team's track record, Manus might not even be a 'he' in the end sdhfhdsf 主 is gender neutral! Let's put a pin on that)

His own Soul is also THE darkest Soul in the entire setting! The second in darkness is Gael's Soul, and that guy has been consuming Humanity for a very long time! Something Manus didn't do. He does the opposite, actually!

_____________________________

So... Yeah. I think everything points towards the fact that Furtive Pygmy is Manus, especially seeing how Lord of the Dark is a position of a human and somehow Manus, both primeval human and literal Lord of the Abyss, still didn't qualify for such! If despite being the darkest creature to ever exist he is still not 'a Lord of Dark born amongst humans', it simply means the darkness already was his before humanity was created! I don't see any other reason for Kaathe to encourage raising him from the death besides to trigger the spread of the Dark itself!

I really hope I was able to explain myself.. Soulsborne lore is hard because even the most obvious things are only implied and not directly said, so you can always fall into a rabbithole of 'but what if's

Bonus:

Manus is also a rat girl, apparently ffdhfdhsg

#dark souls #dark souls 1 #dark souls 2 #manus father of the abyss #furtive pygmy #ask replies #dark souls observation #dark souls theory #(?)#screenshots #dark souls reference

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