#''thematically''. what in the hell are you talking about; it's foreshadowing

[izutsoupmi]

also i think it's wonderful that there's now enough people in the fandom for me to scoff haughtily at their misinterpretations of the story and characters

[mimir-anoshe]

I love that ARCANE is using the MAJOR ARCANA for symbolism.

Chefs kiss.

These are Sevika's tarot cards from season 1.

The Magician (upright) overlapping Death (upright).

Foreshadowing? Oh hell yeah. But its only now after S2 Episode 6 do I understand what they might actually be foreshadowing. People may have talked about this before, so I apologise if this is similar to anyone else's meta. These are all my own thoughts, I usually just watch arcane and don't dabble into the meta but this season has me feral and I just rewatched season 1.

SPOILERS for Arcane S1/S2 below.

I just want to prologue this post with a note about how I've noticed even from season 1 there are thematic parallels and linear symbolism being afforded between Jinx and Viktor. Others in the community have too I'm sure. Its strange. I thought it was interesting in S1 but didn't deep dive into it, but S2 has driven headfirst into it and its making me go "oh... oh ok." Even Viktor in S1 noted Jinx's genius, and in another timeline perhaps Powder would've been a student of Viktors had fate not set them on parallel paths. Two children of Zaun, both mechanical/scientific geniuses. One physically disabled whilst the other mentally disabled. One who "escaped" and was given a chance, rising to the top only to create something that would be used for harm. Fighting that fate at every step. Whilst the other trapped at the bottom of the barrel, forced to use her gifts to become a weapon herself. Such GOOD story writing.

So now let's think about the art of the cards, because in tarot, even the symbolism of the specific art is important. Its why an artists interpretation of a major/minor can be so crucial to a reading.

Here's a figure map I made earlier.

Lets begin with Death.

Thirteenth of the Major Arcana, a "significant transformation and the end of a phase in life." There is death and rebirth symbolism all over arcane, but let's take a closer look at the symbolism mirroring the art.

Figure 7&8 - The one who has "died" a skeleton/skull laid down and being "imbued" with something as something else is taken away.

See that the imbuing focuses on the "chest" area.

It's quick, but it flashes briefly when Viktor is being imbued with the Hexcore. He canonically dies "the skull" and is reborn with the Hexcore on an "altar"/table.

Same with Jinx. Canonically "dies" and is reborn laying on an "altar"/table using shimmer. Purple being used as the visual thread between shimmer and the arcane of the hex; a colour imagery representation of "magical" alchemical/arcane power turning them into something beyond human.

Singed and Jayce. Two hands of death, giving and taking life as if they were a God. One using shimmer, the other Hextech thats imbued with shimmer. Messing with the balance of life and death.

With Viktor, the energy is transferred straight into his chest, just like on the card.

So now we've established the parallels to the death tarot, lets look at The Magician.

The First of the Major Arcana, "the connection between the physical and spiritual worlds, and the ability to manifest one's desires."

Viktor is the Magician. No doubt. He connects the physical and spiritual world of the arcane, he brings people back from the brink of death, as he was. He manifests his desires through the use of the hex, the arcane. And the dude just looks like a mecha wizard.

Though if you want it to be even more obvious.

Figure 3 - The Third Arm/Third Hand.

The image below is "The Machine Herald" Hero from League of Legends. This is the hero Viktor is based upon.

He canonically has three arms, same as the Magician in the card. The Magician is Viktor, Viktor is the Magician. The Magician is the Machine Herald.

The Magician overtakes/overlaps death. But Viktor by episode 6 still doesn't quite resemble the machine herald from the games. There's no third arm... Yet. So the Magician in the card isn't Viktor from episodes 1-6, this is the machine herald who comes after the one killed in episode 6. Another Rebirth is set to happen for Viktor.

Figures 1 &2 - White mask. Red/pinkish eyes.

Hmmm... Red/pinkish eyes are associated with shimmer. And a white mask, of the machine herald? The mask of a messiah. That the hextech Viktor will most likely also be imbued with shimmer like Jinx, to become the true "machine herald." Messiahs of the hex, monsters of the shimmer.

Its also worth noting that both Jinx and Viktor are framed as messianic figures of Zaun in this season. One the fighter who will rally together the undercity and free Zaun from its oppression. The other a healer and a saint like figure who will free the Zaunites of their suffering and lead them into a better future.

Jinx wanting peace - represented by Isha - and Viktor's dream of peace and healing for Zaun - represented by a lot of things including healing Vander - are metaphorically and literally killed in episode 6. Funnily enough, one symbol of peace killing the other (Isha and Vander - Child and Father). After all, peace and violence are two sides of the same coin, as are Viktor and Jinx. Or should I say, two sides of the same cog...

Figure 4&6 - The Cog shaped Hole in the Magicians chest/The Cog Coin and Jinx's cog.

"I understand now. The message hidden within the pattern. The reason for our failures in the commune. The doctor was right. Its inescapable. Humanity. Our very essence. Our emotions... Rage. Compassion. Hate. Two sides of the same coin. Inextricably bound."

In episode 6, whilst Viktor is explaining to Vi about what it will take to heal Vander, Jinx is sceptical. She doesn't even believe in herself as a messiah, so this "hero"? This "saviour" coming along to solve their problems? To fix things? When all she can do is break everything around her, jinx her own family, destroy? She's scoffing at Viktor sure, but she's also scoffing at herself. Mirroring. People treat her like they treat him, so to believe in him as a saviour means she would have to look into the water of that well and face her own reflection. And Viktor sees right through it, the pretence, and he sees her potential.

Knowledge is a paradox. Jinx wants to stick with what she knows, to destroy instead of to build, to "Watch it all burn." Or ignore the plight of Zaun, so she can live peacefully with Isha. Jinx - Powder - is choosing to remain ignorant to what's right in front of her. Right up until the moment Isha dies.

In the scene earlier in the episode, Jinx accidently destroys a bit of the well, releasing a cog that falls into water. Cogs have been symbolic of Viktor healing people throughout this season, using cogs to "Build."

Powder was thrown into water just like that cog by Silco, and reborn as Jinx. But its not Silco that picks up this cog. Its Viktor. He holds the potential of his creation in his hand, and in paradox, holds Jinx's destruction. Viktor holds Jinx's potential. He's literally holding the two sides of Jinx/Powder in his hand, her - their - fate. Just like Jinx, Viktor has the equal capacity to destroy, and if he is reborn as a weapon later on, perhaps that cog represents Jinx being reborn too. As a creator. A builder.

He holds onto Jinx's cog all the way through the rest of the episode, balancing that potential, that fate, of creation and destruction in his hand. Right up until the moment he dies, and the coin/the cog falls, sealing their fate. His death causing the deaths of Isha and Vander too.

So we've established that the story is viewing cogs/coins in a similar light. We've also established the show is linking Viktor and Jinx through the symbology of the cog.

This is reiterated in the symbolism surrounding the Tarot cards. Around the cards are coins that take the shape of cogs, the currency of Zaun. Fate - coin flips - and cogs, gods and machines. Deus Ex Machina, that is what Viktor is to become, and Jinx creates destruction using machines. She's an inventor, just like Viktor and Jayce. A creator and a destroyer. A god of the machine.

So how does Figure 6 - the coin cogs - relate to Figure 4? The hole in the Magician's chest.

On the Tarot Card, the Magician has a circle in the middle of his chest. A hole. Just like the hole Jayce puts through Viktors chest at the end of Episode 6. The one that kills him.

But if you look closely at the image above, it might be a stretch, but to me, the striations on the inner ring look very similar to those of a cog. The hole is what kills Viktor. Cogs have been given visual symbolism for healing, and are also associated with Jinx's potential for creation. Its a stretch, but it could potentially be foreshadowing Jinx using her abilities to heal Viktor; to build instead of destroy. We've already seen Jinx do it once with Sevika, by "building" her a new arm.

I also find it interesting that we're shown Jinx using her talents to build someone a new arm, and Viktor - the machine herald - still has yet to acquire his third arm. Perhaps he doesn't make it. Perhaps Jinx does?

Maybe, just maybe, Jinx - Powder - is the one to fix Viktor, and flip the cog of fate once again.

Now in Episode 6 we already get foreshadowing that it'll be singe - not Jinx - who saves Viktor by imbuing him with the ultimate shimmer from Warwick/Vander - stabilising him. He says it in the episode, but Viktor refuses to sacrifice Vander in the name of creating the ultimate weapon of destruction.

"It would destroy him."

Viktor's potential for destruction goes hand in hand with Jinx's.

Its even foreshadowed in both the cards. The red/pink eyes of the machine herald foreshadowing shimmer. And the shadow being imbued into the chest of the dead skeleton (Viktor) looks an awful lot like Warwick; the beast that traps Vander.

So why am I talking about Jinx saving Viktor if I'm so certain its Singe? Well I'm certain Singe will bring Viktor back to life, to be used as a weapon. That seems like the most likely outcome.

But like Viktor was saying about Vander "He's not a specimen, he's a man." Viktor was doing everything in his power to save Vander's humanity. So yes Singe will bring the machine herald back most likely - even if I think it'd be thematically cool for it to be Jinx - but I think Jinx will save Viktor. Save the man, the humanity. Be the big fat hero.

Jinx was a girl imbued with Shimmer, and despite having monstrous abilities and doing monstrous things, her humanity has still survived.

I could be wrong, I most likely am, but the the thing that's getting to me is this...

Figure 5 - The Broken Infinity.

At the centre of Viktor's chest, in the middle of Jayce's death blow and Jinx's cog of creation & destruction, is a symbol.

Now a diagonal infinity symbol is associated with the Firelights. Ekko. The boy who shattered time.

Broken Infinity? Shattered time? Seems to go hand in hand.

Though Ekko's symbol is a whole infinity, more akin to a Z than an ongoing X.

There are plenty of theories Ekko will play a role in Viktor's fate and the fate of everyone by rewinding time somehow. And the multiple shots of the coin rolling support that to an extend. Rewind time, change fate, change the flip of the cog. And I agree, I think Ekko is going to have a role to play. But there's also another character who fits with this symbol, who uses shimmer to move faster than humanly possible and defy fate time and time again. Who is the fulcrum of fate in the eyes of the story, the catalyst of everything. And only one character who has solely been associated with a broken infinity symbol before.

Jinx. That's Jinx's symbol. Her champion tag.

Jinx's symbol, right at the centre of Viktors chest. And this line to Jinx from Viktor...

"You have much to offer this commune, Powder. Your talents could be used to build instead of destroy."

And the line from Singe, about Viktor's fate being tied to the commune. Viktor IS the commune, he's the centre of it all. The one who can make the dream of Zaun - Vander's dream - a reality. And that line foreshadowed Jinx using her talents to help the commune. To help Viktor.

Hell, she was technically the reason he "died" in the first place. She fired the rocket that nearly killed him. Wouldn't it be poetic story telling if she was the one who saved him in the end?

I can't wait for Saturday.

I believe whatever happens, Viktor and Jinx's fates are inextricably bound.

[kimberleyjean]

Good Omens S1 Parallels - 1/?

Saturday Morning Funtime is a particularly interesting episode for me, because it suggests something about the structure of parallels Season One. Also, it's easier to start with a single episode than trying to cover the whole show at once. I'm going to show you six different scenes from Saturday Morning Funtime and how they link together.

Let's start with the pun pointed out by Danny Motta in his video (link here to relevant timestamp if you haven't seen it). Danny made the link between this scene near the start of E4, where Aziraphale gets exercise:

And this scene at the end, where Aziraphale was exorcised (according to Shadwell, at least):

Cool, seems like a funny pun. But there's no way to know it was intentional right? Well, I think I can argue it was. Let's look at another scene.

We have this scene where Hastur destroys 3 Erics on the plains of Megiddo. Since each demon has a corresponding animal, I'm going to go ahead and place bets on the Eric's being rabbits, and Hastur destroys 2/3 of them.

And then later we have this scene where Hastur again destroys 2/3 rabbits, but this time they're cartoon bunnies - the first one he beheads like a costume, the second he rips out it's throat.

Ok, but again, why am I linking these two scenes? No deep character insights, or thematic elements are being displayed here... Except that's a key reason I'm pointing them out - they're seemingly pretty pointless, so why bother to make them? Well, maybe the sum is bigger than the parts. One more example and then I'll show you how this comes together.

Here's a scene which I think is pretty good foreshadowing of something that will happen later in the episode - Hastur and Ligur talking about the dripping pipes down in Hell. Hastur has a little bucket he's collecting water in, which he uses in a toast:

And later, we have this particularly gruesome scene of Ligur becoming toast at the hands of a bucket full of (holy)water:

Ok, so six scenes, three sets of parallels... now's where the magic happens... I take E4 as a whole... loop it over on itself like a piece of trick rope from Goldstein's magic shop and....

Tada! Here's the episode laid out in 2 minute increments.

Some pretty interesting places to have parallels, no? That two minute block at the start is a lead in before the opening credits, so the Exercise and Exorcism scenes are coming directly before and directly after the open and close sequence (shown above in blue).

I'd be lying if I said it didn't remind me of the overall chiastic structure that some people have worked on, such as this one by @drconstellation, just on a smaller scale.

It's also interesting to note that each of these parallel pairs relates to someone getting discorporated - Eric, Ligur and then Aziraphale.

What's the point?

So, I promised that I would share a little on why this might be important. In my opinion? It appears like there is some detailed structure to Good Omens, at least in S1.

It should also be noted that these scenes were added only for the show in order to produce this effect - Aziraphale exercising with Gabriel, Hastur and Ligur talking about the pipes, the three cartoon rabbits in the theatre - they were all newly created for the show.

Why go to the bother of creating these little parallel moments at corresponding points along a mirrored structure? Especially when these don't necessarily have ramifications for characters or plot? Is it just good story telling or is it something more? These are all questions worth asking in my opinion. I think it relates to how this show treats words and language in a very Pratchetty fashion. The whole show is a dedication to Terry, after all.

Of course, if things were so simple, I think we would have figured it all out long ago. Parallels, puns, wordplay... they're all quite slippery things. There are things I would consider to be parallels which don't line up with this same structure. For example, the scene from earlier with Gabriel and Aziraphale exercising? The "lose the gut" gut-punch foreshadows this other gut punch scene in E4 too:

Despite examples to the contrary, the presence of parallels and wordplay that do line up along a mirrored structure makes me want to explore this further. If you're also interested in this and want to collaborate, please let me know.

This will be a continuing series, as and when time allows, because parallels seem to be absolutely everywhere. Future posts will look at parallels at different levels (within scenes, across episodes, and across seasons).

Let me know if you spot any others - I'd love to hear about them. They might be hidden in the visuals, wordplay, puns and more...

----------------------

With thanks to all the detectives for keeping me clue hunting @embracing-the-ineffable, @theastrophysicistnextdoor, @noneorother, @somehow-a-human, @komorezuki, @maufungi, @lookingatacupoftea, @havemyheartaziraphale, @251-dmr, @dunkthebiscuit, and @ghstptats <3

[wishful-thinking64]

One Hell of an Unpopular Opinion #01

I think that C.H.E.R.U.B. could work as a good foil to I.M.P. but the show (like everything else) utilized them in the wrong way. I actually liked their debut episode and how it played out although if there's one thing that I'd change about it, it would be not having Cletus, Collin, and Keenie get kicked out of Heaven. I'd do this for four reasons. #01.) The team would still want to get even with I.M.P. whether they got kicked out of Heaven or not. We know this because when they initially attempted to go home, Cletus threatened them by saying, "This isn't over," alluding to the fact that we would've seen them again regardless. #02.) Rather than having C.H.E.R.U.B. appear in random episodes (looking at you Season 2) they could appear as proper competitors to I.M.P. going forward with us not only getting to gradually see more members of C.H.E.R.U.B. but also develop a better understanding with how Heaven works, how they treat their Heaven born citizens, and possibly foreshadow how corrupt Heaven is since that's the angle Hazbin Hotel is going for. #03.) Cherubs are literally Heaven's equivalent to Imps. While they wouldn't fully understand how or why the members of I.M.P. are so messed up on account of not being demons themselves, they could, to an extent, empathize with how the members of I.M.P. are mistreated by higher classes. Like, imagine having an episode where both companies are competing over another human being but unlike their previous encounters, I.M.P. hasn't been landing as many deals lately meaning that both business and money have been tight. Naturally, they'd want to secure as many hits as possible and would be pissed to see that C.H.E.R.U.B. is here AGAIN to interfere with their business. Throughout the episode it'd be a close call, though I'd have C.H.E.R.U.B. win in the end so that I'd have someone like Blitzo say, "Oh, look at you! I bet you guys feel real proud for messing with our incomes, huh?" And one of the Cherub's could say something to the extent of, "Incomes? Wait, you guys don't just do this for fun???" Then have it be revealed that the Cherub's genuinely believed that I.M.P.'s business solely existed for some sick and twisted pleasure when in actuality, it was to preserve their livelihoods in Hell. After conversing about it a bit more, I'd have the members of C.H.E.R.U.B. talk among themselves before deciding that, "Y'know, we've done our part. So we're gonna leave but IF something WERE to happen once we've left then there'd be nothing we could do about it." Effectively, letting I.M.P. secure their hit since C.H.E.R.U.B.'s job is done as well as have plausible deniability if any one of their higher ups ask, "Hey, what the hell happened to this guy that you saved?"

#04.) My final point, is that their organization thematically clashes with what I.M.P. aims to do perfectly. I.M.P. wants to kill humans in the living world whereas C.H.E.R.U.B. wants to save them ensuring they live their human lives to the fullest and bidding farewell when they're ready to go. It's simplistic yet effective. Sorry for the long read, I usually go into depth with my opinions. Also, side note, does anyone actually know what the hell C.H.E.R.U.B.'s acronym stands for??? This has bothered me since their debut episode because I'm pretty sure we've never been told what it means.

[halemerry]

I read your meta on the manipulation the Metatron used on Aziraphale, and it was such a great essay laying out every detail. When I watched the end of the episode it was early morning for me and I was super tired and I missed a lot of those details. What did manage to come through in my sleepy mind, was that I was very confused about Why This Happened? As in, I understand now that Az was manipulated, I definitely agree with that analysis, but I don't understand yet if this decision was foreshadowed anywhere in the first 5 and a half episodes. I haven't rewatched the season yet (too busy reading meta lol) but I was wondering if you had any thoughts on that?

I just feel like, other than Aziraphale saying in the first episode that it's nice sometimes to tell someone about something good you've done, now that he's not reporting to heaven, Az doesn't actually seem to care all that much in the present day about his old allegiance. I wonder if maybe that's part of the point? He didn't want Heaven anymore and so he wasn't thinking about it? After all, the show begins with Aziraphale enjoying his new life. As the interviews said, he's living his best life. Good music, good food, and the love of his life.

Because if that's genuinely the case, then perhaps the point of the season is that the soft gentle romance of the first five episodes is Who They Are, and it's just that Aziraphale was rushed and manipulated into something he genuinely did not want even a little bit.

Or maybe he always thought he could fix it, because of the Before The Beginning where Crowley said, "If I was in charge, I'd want people to ask questions." Maybe that planted a seed in Azi's mind. Maybe Azi does want to run Heaven, only in a way that Crowley could be proud of it again. Fix it FOR Crowley. Even though Crowley doesn't want that (and Azi maybe doesn't understand that yet).

I came into your askbox intending to ask a simple question about your thoughts, but I have instead written an essay and asked for one in return. Consider it a quick temptation lol

Temptation accomplished hehe - though a little later than I'd have liked. No though genuinely I love this sort of thing a lot and really appreciate all of it. Anyone please feel free to do this at any time!

But uh so. Since that first meta I've done a lot of stuff breaking down that last scene here and also breaking down Aziraphale and the minisodes from this season here. Both of these operate ascribing to the idea that Aziraphale has been threatened into pseudo compliance on top of the active manipulation the Metatron was doing to him. I'll admit this is the theory I currently favor. But, while that's something I find more thematically interesting and also in more narrative alignment, I do still think there's narrative weight to this on its own.

And I think in the case you've got it dead on with the idea of fixing Heaven FOR Crowley.

Most significantly I think this is viable in the way Aziraphale views Crowley. Like. We know he thinks Crowley is Good and that he has thought this for a very very long time. Arguably his instincts have been telling him this since even before he could consciously put it into words given that even as early as Eden he was being honest with Crowley - a thing he even then did not feel he could do with God Herself. Despite being Fallen, Crowley is safe. Crowley is right. Crowley is Good.

Despite is important here. Because it is notably not and. The lesson being taught here is not that Hell can be Good. In fact Crowley himself actively encourages this idea. I'm not taking you to Hell because you wouldn't like it. My lot don't send rude notes. I need a weapon that could destroy me to keep me safe from Hell. I'm a demon: I lie. A demon could get in a lot of trouble for doing the right thing. I'm a demon, demons aren't nice- You're an angel you can't be tempted. You're an angel - you can't do the wrong thing. All of these things in culmination with the way Crowley talks about his Fall to Aziraphale - I didn't really Fall just sauntered vaguely downward - sets Crowley up as unique in the way he transcends what he is.

Meanwhile Aziraphale has been learning the hard, slow way that the people running Heaven do not necessarily have good intentions and more critically that they are not in alignment with what God actually wants. The problem is the management. The angel who would become Crowley said as much himself.

He has every reason to believe they fix it together too. He now knows that together they can perform archangel tier miracles while they're both actively trying to hold back. He knows that even when they're making mistakes and fumbling through the apocalypse they can help defy the world ending. He knows that they are perhaps the only two beings alive that even remotely understand God's will.

So here's Aziraphale given the opportunity to put himself in charge along with theoretically the single most Good being he's ever met. Of course that's appealing. You could give the person you love the power to create again - something we are explicitly shown at the beginning of this season to bring the angel that would become Crowley more joy and delight than we have literally ever seen Crowley have on screen - and the power to create a world together that actually deserves to have that person? You could undo something that you've slowly been coming to terms with believing should have never been done to him in the first place? You could be Adam, rewriting the end of the world and making it so the Bookshop never burned. All you need to do is change the color of the paint job.

Because he'd never change Crowley. He loves Crowley. Crowley is Good already it's not about making him better. The bit with the Bentley is the scene this season that encapsulates this sort of worldview most. Aziraphale changes the color of the car (which is being presented to us as literally physically linked to Crowley) but not the model. He changes how it looks just like Crowley changes into angel wear without a second thought. Neither change the core of what they are, just the aesthetics. And Crowley is always trying on new aesthetics without letting them change who he is. From Az's perspective why would this be any different?

He doesn't realize that sometimes even if you make it so a Bookshop never burnt that doesn't mean the memory of it doing so ever leaves. You still line the shop with fire extinguishers. You still swap to battery operated candles. The memory lingers as they always seem to do.

Crowley can't ever go back. Won't ever go back. Because the trauma of the Fall draws a clearer line for him both in his own identity and in his worldview than it ever could for Aziraphale who came to his own much more slowly. And because of that it's easy to see a reading of Aziraphale that can't see the specific way what he's saying eats at all Crowley's insecurities because all he can see is what they're capable of together and how that aligns with the greater good. It's all part of God's plan, just like they've always been.

[rindomness]

hello hi tell us about mementos and the security level

OH HELLO. Welcome to my personal hill to die on. This post is long. It's one of my out-loud rants in text form. Sorry in advance. There's a cut down there somewhere.

Thesis statement of whatever's about to come next is that Mementos fucks actually as a concept its execution was just horrible and also Yaldabaoth is a terrible final boss. OKAY LET'S GET INTO IT

First things first I really do think Mementos should have gotten a security level. The game plays "Mementos is the public's Palace" very straight, all the way to the end, insisting that Yaldabaoth is created by the public's desire for a status quo yadda yadda yadda. So like. Here's the screenshots actually

I didn't get the whole conversation mostly because I think I was streaming at the time and complaining out loud but like. He just straight-up says this? And then they do nothing with it???

Imagine this with me. Enter the imagisphere or whatever.

It's October. You've just defeated Okumura, and you just watched the mysterious black-masked figure you've been told cryptically about for a while now kill his Shadow. You watch Okumura have a mental shutdown live. It's horrific! It's worrying! What happened? What's going to happen to you? The Phan-Site meter starts dropping rapidly. You go to Mementos to prepare for the next Palace.

There's a security level.

NOT ONLY did this act make the public lose faith in you, but now you're enemy #1, and it's reflected in the collective unconscious. This Chekov's gun that they set up back in May goes off. You have to be much more careful in Mementos because if you aren't, you could get kicked out. The stakes are higher. Mementos, the public view of you, has changed. It's not just doors opening for you anymore.

THAT WOULD BE SO COOL. RIGHT? RIGHT??? BUT NO! No we don't get a security level until the depths, which contradicts itself, actually, because once you get to the depths, the whole POINT is that the public ISN'T reacting to you or your actions! Why the hell would they care that you're In There!

The obvious answer is that it's because the security level belongs to the Holy Grail/Yaldabaoth/the fuckass cup/whatever you personally call him. And okay, whatever, but the game goes out of its way to establish that the Grail isn't really a separate entity from "public desire," he IS "public desire," the status quo incarnate, so once again, I ask, why is this the only time you have a security level! (I know it's because this is the home-stretch to the final boss and mechanically it has to act like a proper Palace. I still think it's stupid.)

And now that I'm talking about the Grail. Hi. Hello. If you've talked to me on Discord you already know this but I fucking hate the Grail. I think it's stupid. I think it's thematically inconsistent. I think its only purpose is to be the "Let's fight God!" final boss. I truly believe that if I hadn't gotten into Persona 5 through Royal, I would not still be into Persona 5, because I would have gotten so frustrated with Yaldabaoth that I would have dropped the game. I regularly complain for half an hour straight about this thing in voice calls. One person once told me the only thing they knew about Persona 5 was that this cup sucked because I wouldn't shut up about it.

I've somehow managed to not do this on Tumblr but I can't really talk about Mementos without talking about it so I guess we're talking about the cup

Narratively: Yaldabaoth just sort of comes out of nowhere??? The whole game is building up to Shido. The whole game. And you do it! You defeat him! And then... there's this other thing??? Apparently??? I was genuinely really confused when I got to this part of the game the first time because I was going ok we beat the final boss complete with eight hundred phases! Hooray! And now there's this other fucker. Going back through the game there's some foreshadowing for him? But it's kind of all concentrated in the start of the game, around Madarame's Palace, when you're just getting used to Mementos, and then it all sorta just disappears.

YOU KNOW WHAT IS FORESHADOWED, THOUGH? MORGANA.

Imagine with me x2 because this is where I thought the game was taking us when it went "btw we need to tackle the depths now"

Morgana has no memories. Morgana knows there's something in the depths that explains who he is. Morgana assumes it's because he's human, and will become human again if he finds out what it is. The WHOLE POINT of exploring Mementos was for Morgana's memories! And then he starts getting these really unsettling dreams, right, where he's a Shadow, or has a Shadow, or whatever. And then you get to the depths.

What I thought was about to happen was that we were going to find out that Morgana was more or less what the Grail claims to be(a being created by the wishes of the masses) and that Mementos was going to be Morgana's Palace. "Oh but Morgana has a Persona-" Morgana's already a weird case I could easily see him having a Shadow or being a Shadow himself while also having a Persona. I'm ignoring Maruki because we're talking about vanilla and Maruki didn't exist yet.

I thought our final boss was going to be Mona's Shadow and that by defeating him(the part of Morgana(as a Shadow/Metaverse being/etc) representative of what they were trying to make Yaldabaoth: wanting to let the status quo handle everything, more or less, the desire to let the system do what it's designed to even if that thing is "crush everything in its path") we would reaffirm that change is possible as long as we all work together. Morgana getting to be this very physical symbol of rebellion and force of will and getting to go NO I want to try even if it hurts me.

What actually happened was... a lot more underwhelming.

What we got was, in a game where one of the primary themes is "rebellion against systemic injustice, you can't just get rid of the One Guy and fix Everything," a final boss who was... one guy who if you got rid of him you'd fix everything?

And I get it Atlus doesn't want to actually shake the boat that much but at the same time Yaldabaoth comes out of nowhere and says absolutely nothing of substance in a game that, over and over again, gets SO CLOSE to saying something really powerful and then sinking back into what's comfortable. It's the aesthetic of rebellion without the teeth of it.

Anyway now that I've complained for an essay's worth here's some positive stuff

I really do like Mementos. It gets a lot of shit for being repetitive and boring and like I sort of get that but on the other hand it is a JRPG. I'm not sure what you expected from the area that is, mechanically, "Here's where you go to grind." I don't see a problem with having this area. I think the special floor events manage to spice it up enough that it's not all that boring. I like Jose being there in Royal, I think he adds a lot, actually. The implications of everything Jose says are fascinating to me. The fact it's impacted by the weather! Like, as a world component, Mementos is so so cool actually guys. I know it's a Persona game so "world impacted by cognition" is sort of the bare minimum but it's really cool!!! The aesthetics fuck! The only layer I really don't like is.. fuck, I think it's Kaitul? Whichever one gets unlocked after Kaneshiro's Palace, I haven't gotten there in my current playthrough yet. It's just... too dark to see, all the time, imo. Mementos feels(except for... 90% sure it's Chemdah) very oppressive and spooky and I honestly think that's great. It's a depressing place to be! For a game about how corruption and systemic violence hurts everybody, it's really good!

In conclusion... don't ask me about Mementos unless you want an essay LMAO in seriousness I understand why Mementos gets shit but I think it should get less of it. And also that I could have fixed it(the cup. The cup is the big bad part of Mementos. Not the grinding you're going to get that with a JRPG no matter what you do you signed up for it when you launched the game.)

[melrosing]

Sansa cannot “take” Winterfell as she is married to Tyrion and Robb passed over her in his will for that reason. It’s not that I think she won’t be a Lady of any kind. She may take up Lysa’s post. But thematically and technically she can’t be QITN.

i didn't actually say Sansa would be Queen in the North because i don't believe the north will be independent at the end of the series. i've said a fair few times that i believe the fisher king bran theory, which is about tying the land and its peoples together, and that i don't see any reason why the north would sit outside of that - particularly when the 7K will be ruled by a Stark.

however, i do see the God's Eye as Bran's seat, not Winterfell, so that does leave scope for Sansa to be Lady of Winterfell, which i think she probably will be. like Bran's out, Rickon doesn't really have a story substantial enough to occupy such a significant role by the end of the narrative, at least afaic, and Sansa comes first out of the remaining + may arrive back at Winterfell before anyone else does.

well, maybe Jon will pip her to the post?? and i think that Jon will indeed use the whole 'i fuckin died' loophole to leave the NW and potentially rule Winterfell for a time, but I do also believe that it's heavily foreshadowed he'll return north of (what was) the wall again at the end of the series. so Jon will take up his role as Robb's heir for a time, but not for long.

and I know Robb's will rules out Sansa as things stand, but I think it would be pretty bizarre if the story ends with the northern lords and ladies insisting upon that? like, Sansa was ruled out because she was forcibly married to a grown man. ending the question of who gets Winterfell with 'well it would be you next in succession Sansa but this piece of paper says NOT you because you were married off to Tyrion several books ago and sure that marriage likely no longer stands by this point and a hell of a lot has happened since but who cares the piece of paper says no so I guess that leaves....' like??? lmao

and whilst I agree that Sansa has been the most southern oriented of the siblings, I imagine her remaining chapters as an exploration of her return to her roots. that's already hinted at as she literally rebuilds Winterfell from snow in the courtyard at the Eyrie. as GRRM's notes say, she will end her arc in the Vale resolving to be Sansa Stark, and reclaim her home. the northern lords may lack focus and unity now they no longer have Arya - or rather, Jeyne - to rally around, and I think Sansa's return will end up being that new focus.

it probably will come with some scepticism given she was married off to a Lannister, but unless people really expect that Sansa will remain sidelined by the north to the end of her days whilst they celebrate her siblings as good and true northern children... i mean i think it's fair to say that what's more likely is that in the latter half of TWOW or maybe ADOS, we'll see Sansa slowly winning them over and reclaiming her Stark name.

either way as i say i think the northern lords and ladies will settle on Jon first, and the question of who gets Winterfell after he?? abdicates?? is going to be a peacetime decision. and again worth saying as we've been here before: whilst this is what I think will happen, i'm interested in differing opinions. however if you/anyone wants to discuss further i'd probably prefer via dm on this particular topic, because i've talked about it before and don't really want it to devolve into bad faith engagement again.

[bapple117]

Some RadioCotton Trivia 📻🐰❤️

Now that my first fic "If You Can't Say Somethin' Nice, Don't Say Nothin' At All" is finished, I thought I would share some behind-the-scenes trivia!

Some of this will contain minor spoilers for the plot, so read with caution if you've not finished the story - there will be no spoilers for part two (All That Grace). Okay let's go! This list is LONG so hold on y'all

The Bambi Thing

The name is a direct quote from Bambi; there's actually a LOT of Bambi references in the whole fic. The quote was actually the entire inspiration for the whole premise. Bambi is one of my favourite Disney movies and I couldn't help but notice a lot of shared themes between it and Alastor - and then I thought, what if a cute, wholesome rabbit demon came to Hell and taught him to be sweeter?

There's another direct script lift from Bambi later in the fic - when Alastor has the dream about his mother. 'Mother? MOTHER? Mother where are you?' Oh the pain.

Adam also calls Alastor "Bambi" and Verity "Thumper" at points, AND one of the chapters is called "Drip Drip Drop Little April Showers". The themes of them being a deer and a rabbit also crop up a lot, obviously.

The Music Thing

There are a LOT of references to songs, both when I put lyrics at the start of chapters and within the story itself. I am aggressively inspired by music and song lyrics, and have immensely eclectic taste, and can't help myself. Some songs would be the thematic influence for a chapter and I would literally listen to the song on repeat as I either planned or wrote the chapter. Something I'm still doing now while I write Bluest Monday!

At one point I spent about an hour trying to find the name of a music scale just so I could accurately describe it when Alastor and Verity play the piano. I am very meticulous with my research, I was determined to find it 😂

The Alastor Thing

The way I chose to write Alastor was influenced by a number of things. One, that "What just happened? Ffffffuck" line from the finale of Season 1 did a LOT of heavy lifting for me. It showed that he has a version of himself that's less guarded and raw - and I don't care what anyone says, it's NOT because his staff broke. He goes right back to the filter and accent immediately afterwards and the staff is still broken, so.

Two, I just really wanted to write him as someone that uses violence and a covered-up personalty as a coping mechanism for grief, which I don't think is too far from the canon. His eventual softening and ability to love was influenced by things like Mr Darcy, Kylo Ren (LOL), Astarion from BG3, etc etc. Traumatised bad boy is healed by the sunshine girl - we love to see it.

I also did a LOT of research on the canonical information thus far known about Alastor, including things Viv has said in streams. The only thing I got dead wrong was a chapter where he drinks tea - apparently he hates it. Everything else is either based on canon or a speculation based on lore that's been teased.

Other Random Facts

I chose to include Adam as a fleshed out character for a few reasons. One, he's hella fun to write. Two, I had the Vox-jealous-kidnap-and-rescue planned since the start, and I knew I needed a character who could help them. Adam is unknown to the Vees as a hotel resident at that point, and so he became a great choice. I needed to lay the ground work so it would be convincing that he'd help them, so he's there from the start. I ended up loving him so much that he's now one of the main characters in the sequel and is getting his own development arc. Go Adam!

Adam also breaks the fourth wall in the show (Ugly people? *looks at camera*) and so I felt inspired to make him quippy with pop culture references a la Deadpool. It was great fun and very helpful when I wanted to squeeze in a fitting reference.

There is a LOT of foreshadowing and wordplay in the fic. A LOT, so much I don't have time to list it all. For example, Verity drunkenly talks (in Chap 4) about how deer are territorial momma's boys - if that ain't Alastor idk what is. That info becomes very important in Chap 21.

There are references to stuff from Helluva Boss; Fizzerolli Cola, a Verosika music video plays, etc. A sign of more to come in P2 👀

Dramatic irony (where the audience knows something the character doesn't and it's either funny or tragic) is my absolute FAVOURITE Shakespearian trope, and I use it all the time.

I made myself laugh a lot coming up with the names for fake booze LOL

Husk was one of my favourite characters to write, as well as Alastor (ofc), Rosie and Adam.

My personal favourite chapters are 13 (Al drunk with Rosie) 19 (dream scene, fluff & first smut) and 23 (final chapter). I loved the image of Alastor laughing into his drink like a normal young man being silly and chapter 19 has a bit of everything - angst, fluff, smut, comedy. I loved writing that one so much.

The scene where Verity uses Alastor's power to manifest them away from the group cheekily and then Alastor likes it a lot and goes crazy kissing her is very inspired by this scene in Titanic (one of my all time fave movies) - especially where Rose swears and laughs as the lift is going up.

I myself have lost a parent, so I understand that loss very well. I poured a lot of that feeling into this fic, it was something I could actually inject into the story from my own experience.

I'm pretty sure we got the comments turned off on a video on youtube LOL. I linked this song at the end of Chap 19 (I listened to it on repeat while writing the love scene) and the next day the comments were disabled LMAO. That track will ALWAYS remind me of this fic now, arugh my heart

Verity

As much as Verity started as just a way for me to avoid using (Y/N) in a reader-insert fic (something I personally don't like) and a way for me to do the rabbit and deer theme, she became her own character over the course of the story. I made it reader-insert cause I figured no one would read it otherwise, but now the sequel is third person bc she's her own person.

Her name was also a deliberate choice - a V name meaning truth. She makes Alastor face his truth, yadda yadda blah blah blah you get it you get it 😂 Plus it just sounds like a rabbit name doesn't it?

Verity has a lot of traits from myself, but she is NOT self-insert for me, I'd hasten to add. I'm not completely delulu guys okay? ....Not entirely But she does have a lot of overlap with myself. You gotta write what you know, after all. I won't go into detail about the similarities between us - some of them are obvious, I think. But I'll leave that all ambiguous, more fun that way :)

Final Thoughts

There are honestly so many more things I could say but this is already veering into narcissistic self-indulgence land LOL so I feel compelled to stop here, but if anyone has any questions or things they'd like to know, pop them in my inbox!

That's all, folks!

[quillyfied]

OFMD s2 finale prediction, updated: oh heck y’all. I think Izzy might be about to die.

Evidence: for a start, we know this show loves parallel structure. The season started with an Izzy death scene, with Stede gutting him as repayment for “selling us out to the English.” There’s a lot that’s gone unsaid and unacknowledged this season—and as Archie says, I’ve been content so far to live in a “they get away with it, life just goes on” state—but. But. But. Izzy might not be fully able yet to apologize for hurting Ed the way he did due to a lack of understanding (though I think he’s getting there, if he isn’t already), but he damn well knows what he did re:the English. And him dying for real as repayment for that would be a neat little foreshadowed parallel moment, if nothing else.

Second, consider this screenshot from the finale teaser:

That’s Ed’s hand, covered in blood. Ring and spider give it away if the blurry side of his head didn’t. And blurry as hell in the background, you can make out Archie, Auntie, someone in a hat, the Swede, Zheng, and Lucius. Zheng is a captain, she’s wearing a hat that indicates rank. I’d be willing to bet money right now the person covered up by Ed’s hand is Stede, since he’s also a captain and also would definitely wear a hat. And thematically, there’s really only one other character that Ed might get his hands (lol) bloody for, and that is probably trying to hold a dying Izzy together as they have REAL closure. Parallel structure coming into play again, Ed and Izzy having one last conversation as Izzy lays dying, only this time Ed isn’t implicitly begging for death (and can we talk about Izzy sneering “good for you” after Ed describes how Izzy killed him in a dream, versus how that conversation would go at this point in the season now that the infected leg has healed and some of the rot between them has been cleared up and they have a chance to actually express care for each other without so much venom?).

Third: Izzy is the new unicorn. The good luck charm. The Revenge unicorn has been beheaded, de-legged, pretty much mauled and mutilated until it’s unrecognizable. There’s further meat in that metaphor but sticking with its ties to Izzy, the mythical creatures this season haven’t fared well. The Kraken, smashed with a cannonball. The phoenix (I think it’s a phoenix??) of Zheng’s ship, likely blown to smithereens. The unicorn of the Revenge was bad off from the start, but now that its properties have transferred to Izzy…well. Three for three, the crew and Stede in particular is starting to live in the real world now rather than the fun muppet pirate world Stede originally created on the Revenge, the unicorn must go. (There’s also ample evidence to challenge this theory, mainly Ed’s gravy basket experience with mermaid Stede and also Buttons literally turning into a bird. Magic is alive and well in OFMD, so might the unicorn be spared? Time will tell.)

Fourth: Con has been giving a masterful performance this season, undebatable regardless of whether you liked or agreed with Izzy’s arc or not. Could it be, friends, that he’s been giving his all as a farewell to the character and the show and the fans?

I’m not saying this because I want it; people have been predicting it all season and until this morning, when my eyes popped open and I could not get back to sleep for love or money until I made this post, I have been rolling my eyes and thinking “whatever, he’s gonna be fine.” Unless. He’s emphatically not fine. And all these tiny hints have been actually building to something.

[xanthera]

A very prominent video game leaker who's been correct many times before keeps talking about a remake of Final Fantasy IX being in development. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but if we do get it, and they make some story alterations like they did with the FF7 remake, I have three changes on my wishlist:

Number one: How the hell did Zidane, Dagger, and Eiko not fucking die when Garland basically nuked Alexandria?

Please explain. No need to change it, just like. How???

Two: Tone down Zidane's horniness just a tad. Some of the jokes about his attitude aged like a fine wine, but others aged like milk. The, "Ooh, soft," moment may be memorable, but it's very much a product of its time. We are no longer in the era of the Horny Anime Nosebleed™, please let my boy be a little more respectful than that.

And finally: Who the fuck is this?

What is Necron's deal? Why are they there? It comes out of nowhere. I could go into the thematic and philosophical reasons why its place as the final boss makes sense (Necron is the personification of the fear of death [I think?], and all of the main villains are motivated in some way by a refusal to accept death, while the protagonists understand that the inevitability of death is what makes life meaningful,) but the game doesn't bother to tell you any of that, or give any kind of hint that it's coming. Could we get a little foreshadowing, maybe?

Anyway, fingers crossed that Midori is telling the truth and we get a remake, please Square Enix I beg of you 🙏

[chattegeorgiana]

Hey chatte have you notice how recently on twitter you getting alot of naruto users going about how kaguya twist makes thematic sense and was actually planned long term? I'm curious as to why you think this is becoming one of a trend when back when it came out the majority hated madara being replaced and thought it came out of nowhere?

It's rather simple: they're reading with confirmation bias, because by the time they came into the picture, the story was already ended.

They didn't get to have the same experience as us, the slow burn one, where we were there at each step of the way and witnessed how everything was developed.

Ofc some details will make sense storywise, because as I said in an older ask where we discussed this subject, they went back and looked into the story and said "Hmm, what elements could we use to come up with something new here?".

And they found the loophole: the Kaguya clan.

But the Kaguya clan was nothing more than a mere afterthought in the OG series.

There's no actual foreshadowing, no red herring, no nothing to support this claims.

Hell we even have Kishi admitting himself that he wrote Kaguya bc he didn't know what else to do with Madara. Plus, there was also the sequel in the talks so ofc they had to restructure & recombine some elements to give it at least SOME degree of sense.

That doesn't mean it was "planned all along".

[amtrak12]

Ooph, calling my current fic struggles “middle book syndrome” is just... Too Accurate. I don’t like it. I don’t want it to feel like a middle book! I want it to be a good story!

Though, I do understand that the true purpose of Books 2 and 3 are to entertain the readers who aren’t ready to leave my world behind. Because Book 1 honestly can stand entirely on its own! I don’t need sequels! I designed it that way on purpose because I have the epilogue of toddler Rory returning home to a changed timeline so the reader knows the happy ending. What they don’t know is how we got there. They don’t need to know that. It really doesn’t matter. But I thought it would be fun to explore Lucifer and Chloe taking the long way to meet back up with their daughter, because the last we see of S3 Lucifer and Chloe is them grief-stricken over saying goodbye to their daughter.

And by god I want to explore that grief. This isn’t like canon where Chloe is already pregnant with Rory when they say goodbye to their adult daughter. This is S3. It’s going to be years before they see her again. YEARS. They had their toddler daughter for two months! They were fully adjusted to being coparents and now their daughter is just -- gone. I want to eat that angst with a spoon like it’s ice cream with chocolate syrup and rainbow sprinkles. It’s fucking delicious!

There’s also the fun awkwardness of them still not being a romantic couple but they know they’re going to have a daughter in the future. That’s not going to put any weird pressure on them that will mess with their heads! :P And I want to explore that too, so that’s the other purpose of the sequels. Just allowing me to continue playing in this universe. It is purely self-indulgent for both me and the readers.

Doesn’t mean I want it to suffer middle book syndrome, though. I do think the grief exploration will make it compelling enough to not feel like a middle book. The real problem comes from incorporating the S4 plot into this. Sure I could ignore it, obviously. But I’ve decided I do want Lucifer to have to go back to Hell for a bit, because I absolutely adore the idea of Book 3 opening with it being a year exactly before Rory is meant to be born, and Lucifer’s not on Earth. That sounds delicious and is perfect given that the final scene of the series will be Chloe learning she’s pregnant. Now the main plot of Book 3 is them trying to confirm the timeline has been changed because they both want to ensure Lucifer will be there to raise Rory. They have no idea the timeline has already changed. All they know is the few things Rory mentioned have all happened. So they focus on stopping the one thing that hasn’t happened yet: Dan’s death. (Hence the title: Save the Douche, Save the World.) (The readers will already know Dan lives thanks to Book 1′s epilogue but that’s not the point. The point is the characters don’t know that.)

So, yeah I need the demon invasion still and I’m actually good with keeping the rabid priest and his prophecy because I’m moving up Chloe learning she’s a gift from God to the S4 era in this series, and prophecies mesh well with free will struggles from a thematic standpoint. Eve comes back to Earth for this too. Her storyline will obviously go differently from canon but I’m not sure exactly what journey it takes yet. So that’s some of the cloudiness I’m dealing with. I also want to foreshadow Michael’s push to become God, but it is going to stay at foreshadowing. I thought about pulling him into a more active role early, but I’ve ruled that out now.

... Though if I’m having Abel be the first soul to make it from Hell to Heaven... and that’s happening in Book 1.... Maybe I don’t need a demon invasion to pull Lucifer back to Hell....

Okay thank you everyone for letting me talk to thin air! I now have something productive to think about! :D

[aykaypee]

app of you are blinded by the name. LET ME TELL YOU THIS IS A DESOLATION SONG. (i voted wrong on the poll) the closest other one is Hunt which i'll get into in a minute.

THERENIS ALSO AN ARGUMENT TO BE MADE FOR WEB/SPIRAL ACTIVITY I JUST FINISHED WRITING THIS

for context: the common interpretations of this song are of a religious nature, whether that be the devil coercing a mother to drown her baby under the guise of baptising them, or a reference to how many women were in fact drowned during the salem witch trials. either way, religious and probably about drowning. the way the song is generally sung has a very folk-esque vibe, basically sounding like a proper warning passed down. listen to bottom of the river by delta rae it slaps.

Hold my hand / Ooh, baby, it’s a long way down to the bottom of the river

bottom of the river is a METAPHOR here . please do not think 'haha crushing weight of water' and think Vast or Buried. the repetition of this motif, while stylistically can be interpreted as yknow, hammering home that folk vibe as a working song with a constant beat, usually those songs have a sort of call and response . which this one does not.

Hold my hand / Ooh, baby, it’s a long way down, a long way down

If you get sleep or if you get none / The cock’s gonna call in the morning, baby

wow, we are getting into the hell metaphor very very early . ooookay ! i think msot interpretatiosn agree that this is, in fact, sung from the perspective of a devil or some otherwise corrupted religious figure. hold my hand as you go down to hell, i'll protect you despite your destination etc

something something inevitability of the Everchase. if you sleep or if you don't, it will still happen. this is more of an introductory segment that is meant to sort of . foreshadow the later motif of inevitability

Check the cupboard for your daddy’s gun / Red sun rises like an early warning

THIS. this is so Hunt coded and im not sure how to articulate it. checking the cupboard for a gun, reference to family ties (almost like.....a pack......), red sun rising as a warning is also. Very Hunt. like the orange glow of the barest sunrise as you venture out ahead of the crow's cawing, ahead of anything else that could find you to get a headstart. it's a warning, it tells of what is to come.

The Lord’s gonna come for your first born son / His hair’s on fire and his heart is burning

this is more Desolation-y and i do love the interpretarion of a demon convincing a mother to drown her baby in the river under the guise of a baptism, i think that's a really cool way to look at it. if there was a messiah before agnes i think this would be a very cool way to look at them, hair on fire and heart burning. maybe touched by the Desolation but in a different group of people, normal people. the lord is probs a reference to the Desolation in this case.

Go to the river where the water runs / Wash him deep where the tides are turning

and the singer i think is . anything But Desolation coded but the song itself, the story it tells is, a tale of aided self-caused destruction do u get me do u hear my thoughts. it's very reminiscent to talk by hozier in away where the narrator is like very antagonistic except this is more like a recounting whereas hozier's was an active deception. also yeah this kid is being drowned.

And if you fall / And if you fall

hey !! adding in some reassurance in these next few bits from the narrator, hold their hand if anything should happen, it's a long way down, just hold steady, they know what'll happen if you fall etc etc. i really hope im articulating myself well seeing songs in a broader thematic perspective rather than as a character metaphor is . Hard for me i think you can tell

Hold my hand / Ooh, baby, it’s a long way down to the bottom of the river

Hold my hand, / Ooh, baby, it’s a long way down, a long way down

The wolves will chase you by the pale moonlight / Drunk and driven by a devil’s hunger

i thonk the wolves here, while could be a great argument for this song being Hunt coded, are a sort of representation of the townsfolk trying to prevent the subject (you) from drowning your kid, painting them as drunk and driven mad by a devil who wants to stop you from putting out the fire on your child . i think its fun they dont say the devil, but a devil and i think i heard something about The Devil not being popular in urban christianity for a while or somrthing similar. maybe, since they're painting this violent as almost involuntary they're trying to keep some sort of sympathy for the townsfolk.

after all, if you're still trying to reach out when they shun you, that's all the more devestating, isn't it?

Drive your son like a railroad spike / Into the water, let it pull him under

DROWN! THAT! BOY!

Don’t you lift him, let him drown alive / The good Lord speaks like a rolling thunder

ok maybe thunder here is Vast-y but thats stretching it. this whole song is about convincing you to do something you dont want to and really shouldn't through deciet and religious references. thats so Desolation imo... ..

Let that fever make the water rise / And let the river run dry

And I said

i . am not sure how to interpret this on its own instead of as an addition to the theme as a whole do u understand. idk the image i get in my head from this is the avatar and the child (probs still on fire in at least one way) making the water start to boil, and thus drying the river out. more disaster and stuff !

reassurance.

Hold my hand / Ooh, baby, it’s a long way down to the bottom of the river

Hold my hand, / Ooh, baby, it’s a long way down, a long way down

Hold my hand / Ooh, baby, its a long way, a long long long way

Hold my hand / Ooh, baby its a long way down, a long way down

i really do think, in this analysis, it's important to also acknowledge the way the instrumentation and the vocals contribute to the overall vibe of the song. ot does feel like a warning, one very strong vocalist being backed up by i think 2 harmony singers to reinforce the message, echo the urgency of the point the singer makes. the limited instruments and heavy use of harmonies and vocals just . idk it makes it more Hunt-y to me.

What Fear Entity would you assign to this song?

(Part 4 of my Playlists inspired by Fear Entities project)

Part one | Previous part | Next part

[raayllum]

So as we know, a lot of what is said about the Cube so far is meant to be literal, down to how it’s foreshadowed in 1x04 from the start

So with that in mind I want to talk about what is probably my favourite line regarding the Key (and the last time the motif was mentioned directly to Callum until S4) from 2x07, which is:

You practicing magic, or are you losing to Bait a game of rolly-cubes?

So let’s talk about it.

1) Losing a Game

First off is the most literal layer that arguably makes me scream the most which is that Callum is losing a game. This is major as in S1-S3, the Game Motif running throughout the show that S4 explicitly ties to Aaravos directly was largely regulated solely to his cube. We also know that come hell or high water eventually all the heroes’ efforts to stop Aaravos from being freed have to fail. Therefore, while Callum and co. will eventually win in the end (S7) they have to fail first. They have to lose the game. The only thing we don’t know for certain is how/why. 

2) Practicing magic

The next layer is the mention of magic and I could see this going two ways. On the one hand, Callum’s journey with magic has always had the the game motif littered throughout (“Is this a guessing game? Just do it!” moments before he does his first spell) and indeed what put him on a path to the cube and Aaravos in the first place: “Mages were his prey.” We could see Callum’s path with magic, for a variety of reasons, being what causes him to lose the game, even if he thinks at first perhaps he is improving or it is the right thing to do.

On the other hand, this could foreshadow even later in the series than we think, with magic being a core part of Aaravos’ downfall and Callum ultimately ‘winning’ the game. That, and framing things - like war or death or the end of the world - as a game to win is something that has mostly been in Aaravos’ forte, not Callum’s, who is more sincere and sensitive. Thus I think Aaravos’ initial game that everyone is entangled in is his quest for freedom (seeking Callum’s primary thematic core) that will give way to a quest of warped Justice (Ezran’s thematic core), presumably. Aaravos has been beaten at his own game once by the archdragons, but I don’t think that sort of move is probable this time around, either.

If you want more thoughts on what sort of magic may cause Callum to inadvertently fall into Aaravos’ path, I have an analysis / predictions post here regarding different viabilities of dark magic.

Thus, given the symbolism I think it’s most likely that this relates to Aaravos’ plans to get out, as he does say immediately proceeding this, “Oh, my time has come. My return to this world is inevitable” not something more vague like “My plan is in motion” or something that like, but specifically regarding his return.

3) Rolly-cubes

This is perhaps one of the more interesting implications. The game could be left up in the air, but Rayla’s line makes it clear that Callum is a participant in a game due to the ‘rolly-cubes,’ that the cube itself is a key (haha!) part of the game. But this again makes sense if the cube is part of what is and has been, narratively, dragging Callum into Aaravos’ machinations more than anything else. If the game revolves around Aaravos’ Key, and the ‘win’ is Aaravos getting out, than this line makes that connection explicit. 

4) To Bait

I’ve talked before about Bait’s weird connotations with the cube which I won’t go into here, but am very curious about (given that glow-toads / glow-toys are also used as bait to catch deep-sea fish, Aaravos’ prison being presumably in water, next season as Ocean, etc). And again, this is where I think the phrasing is very interesting, if it is meant to be this intentional or taken so literally. For example, Callum being lured in by the mystery of the cube - for the cube itself to be ‘bait’ in which you are taken in, hook line and sinker - only to get in over his head and backed into a corner by Aaravos, this is something I could see even if I don’t think Callum would ever let himself go quite that far without some other kind of external motivation (perhaps thinking it could free him from Aaravos’ possession, or something).

But Rayla makes sure the rolly-cube and Bait are distinct. Are you losing to Bait at a game. Are you losing to bait at The Game? Which indicates that the bait that will make Callum lose the game the cube has pulled him into is not the cube itself. The bait isn’t the cube; it’s something else, something else he wants.

And well - you know I think I know exactly what that is. 

[directdogman]

If dialtown where to have a sequel what is the number 1 thing you would absolutely wan to add to it ?

like what you really wanna do ?

I've actually got 2 sequels drafted on paper... that's normal for me. By the time I finished DSaF 1, I had DSaF 2 and DSaF 3's plots drafted on paper and roughly figured out, minus some details that were changed/added to reflect the FNaF games released after that point. ...point is, when I finish writing a story and have to finish implementing the writing i've already gotten done for that game, I get the urge to ask myself: wait, what WOULD happen if the cameras kept rolling and there was just... more game, like: Chapter 1 over, chapter 2 begins... And, yeah, I do know what DT2 WOULD consist of, and hell, even a DT3 if it was made. Better I don't spoil, in case I ever decide to make 'em! Mightn't be the craziest thing in the world, y'know. Anyway, the cool thing about knowing where various characters'/series arcs would go is that you can add cool foreshadowing dialogue with double meanings or thematic stuff that connects the entries together. With a lot of indie episodically released games, their storytelling often ends up feeling like a string of unrelated events just kinda happening all in a row, and if you look at the twists later on in the story, you'll often find they feel outright consistent with foreshadowing/the characters as they existed in the first chapter. You can tell the arc was made up as it went alone, with twists being pulled out of thin air, just to make it impossible for fans to predict what'll happen next, bc there's no satisfying arc/idea executed, just a long drumroll with no payoff. But with my stories, generally speaking, there's lore/events in the latter parts of my story that you realized was referenced in an off-handed or hidden way that proves the events were being thought of/talked about behind the scenes that early on. There are important characters basically unseen in DT, including Callum Crown himself! I've got solid ideas for where I can take the world, but alas, game design takes time. It'll be a lil bit yet before I can announce what my future plans are. But, not that much longer, hopefully.

[acephysicskarkat]

did you think I was going to stop ranting about sp0p’s problems just because it’s a new year? thought i was going to make a clean break? tough fucking luck babes! today’s ramble is on That Thing You Like That Is Also Toxic, a thing that, for example, @adora-deserves-better has been seeing in the old ask box this evening.

as a courtesy note, as I’ve picked up one or two non-pornbot follows from people fleeing the birdsite implosion, if you do not want to see this stuff, please take this opportunity to blacklist “#spopcrit”, which has been my tag for this ongoing narrative and thematic autopsy for at least a year now. I promise that I don’t actually discuss this very often, I think at this point I’ve mostly said what I need to say (hell, even this is kind of a rehash of points I’ve made before, I just can’t be fucked tracking down those posts), but sometimes I do feel the need to dissect another organ to further look into what went wrong.

Anyway.

So the thing about fiction is that sometimes fictional romances are toxic. This is not, in itself, a problem; what matters is the handling of the toxicity.

As a case study, let’s look at the distinguished connoisseur’s enemies-to-lovers arc set in a science fantasy setting with a religious space empire and starring a lesbian with a big sword and a mysterious past, the Locked Tomb. Gideon and Harrow’s relationship is an unhinged mess of cosmic proportions. Harrow literally invented an entirely new way of having an unhealthy relationship just for this romance, and it involved brain surgery, which she performed on herself, at seventeen.

However.

The bit where this holds together is that the messiness and toxicity and general fuckery of the relationship is not an error on Tamsyn Muir’s part. It is a part of the narrative that Muir talks about in interviews. Exploring the mess and how it unfolds is a noticeable part of the plot.

It is, essentially, supposed to be kinda fucked.

This is where SP0P runs into its final season problems, because the framing and narrative treatment is not that this relationship is kinda fucked; it’s supposed to be Big and Heartwarming and they will beat you to death with scenes of them in Elysian-esque fields under golden light to make sure you know that...but that meshes poorly with the prior parts of the story, because as of S2-S3, this relationship was absolutely kinda fucked, there are entire episodes about how and why it’s kinda fucked, and, no matter what S5 thinks, it takes more than one apology to fix that.

The romance doesn’t work as narrative or thematic payoff because the show was previously making a big deal about themes that the romance actively harms, and the transition between the two stages is not smooth and does not feel natural. “The point of C*tra’s story is to explore what happens when you’re the toxic friend” meshes poorly with a final season that is all about everyone hastily forgiving C*tra for being the toxic friend and the people she hurt being stripped of agency to avoid any discomfort for the writers. “Abuse is bad” is absolutely a smart thing to say, but you lose a lot of points when you throw in “but also, the things my favourite character does that are totally indistinguishable from abuse are fine and romantic, actually.” They put in an actually really good episode about how C*tra’s obsession with Adora is wildly unhealthy and harmful to them both, and that she should just move on and let go, and then paid off absolutely none of that foreshadowing because it might make the shippers sad. Hell, Stevenson put “Learn to Let Go” on a C*tra playlist and then wrote an endgame about rewarding C*tra for not learning to let go!

The reason why C*tradora grinds my gears where, say, Griddlehark doesn’t is that Griddlehark is about taking a toxic mess, acknowledging that it’s a toxic mess and exploring how that toxic mess develops, and C*tradora is about taking a toxic mess, rushing through a kinda bad redemption arc that doesn’t meaningfully address the toxicity of the mess, and then just declaring it to be Officially Fine Now so that the showrunner’s favourite character can have a happy ending to a tremendously disappointing character arc.

(Also the pacing is bad and it ends up killing all the foreshadowing for actual interesting things the show had been doing in order to focus on C*tra whining about not being forgiven fast enough and how everything is still Adora’s fault, a thing that is vastly less sympathetic than the writers seem to think it is, but as ever, one crisis at a time!)