#????? WHAT IS HAPPENING WHERE IS SQUILF

[yuridovewing]

can we talk about how it honestly kinda sucks that leafpool’s “climatic main character death” happens in a book that has barely anything to do with her

[bonefall]

Mapleshade Discourse O'Clock

It's that time again!!! SO I just kinda want to jot down all of my various thoughts about it as a story and just generally weigh in about Mapleshade.

I like the idea of Mapleshade more than the actual Mapleshade that is used throughout the books.

She has a really good gimmick-- to haunt Applekin though the generations. I don't like how they turn her into a generic "cat satan" for Tigerclaw's Fury and keep making her appear as a vain lackey demon.

I like her characterization in Mapleshade's Vengeance the most, of all her appearances.

But, I don't think my reading of the character depicted in MV is what the author intended.

See, I like MV as a story with no hero. The only blameless characters are the kittens who drowned and Perchpaw, while everyone else is some flavor of selfish, cruel, or vengeful. Everyone thinks they're in the right, but no one truly wins in the end.

Nothing about it was noble. Every tragedy that happened was utterly avoidable. In the end, everyone bears some responsibility for the pain and suffering that happened the day those children drowned.

BUT I'm pretty certain that the intended reading was that Mapleshade would be the one clearly in the wrong the whole time, as she justifies her own actions like a villain does.

Especially knowing how poorly the writers thought of similar female characters like Squilf and Leafp lying about the three, or Nightcloud being jealous her crummy husband is acting strange around another woman.

I feel justified in assuming that when Mapleshade is not happy she's being cheated on, or when she refuses to correct Frecklewish's record knowing it's unsafe if her kits are revealed as half clan, the writer really does think you're not supposed to take her side.

Because women should just not have emotions about being cheated on or something, and lying is unspeakably bad even if the truth puts you and your children in danger.

But. Y'know. We can all use the braincell for a moment and see that this is fucking stupid

SO when the book goes on to have Mapleshade ignore all the warnings about the swollen river, show both ThunderClan and RiverClan being obscenely cruel to her, and then walk across that bridge while insisting in her head that the deaths weren't her fault, I think the implication is obvious AND SHITTY.

Ergo I reject it completely. I can see what the book wants to say, and I think it says something trashy.

In spite of how badly the writer wants it to be Mapleshade's fault the kittens died, I say it was the asshole who threw a bunch of kittens out into the rain for being mixed race, actually.

Oakstar had the power here. Ravenwing had some power as well, but he makes it clear it wasn't his suggestion to throw the babies out into the woods.

And when it comes to Bridge Discourse, it was at least the afternoon, raining heavily, and Mapleshade was trying to get to RiverClan Camp. A straight shot across the stepping stones.

I think it is ridiculous to imagine an extremely emotional parent managing three very scared children, attempting to get out of the rain and dangerous wilderness before nightfall, would be rational enough to realize a large detour would be safer.

MAYBE the distance from ThunderClan Camp to the Bridge is equal to the distance to the Stones. But the distance between the bridge and RIVERCLAN Camp is longer.

I hope this goes without saying; but Frecklewish didn't deserve the Dark Forest.

Even in Banana World logic where she was sitting on the bank watching those kids doggy-paddle. Do not fucking jump in to save drowning people if you are not trained to do that.

I'm dead serious, this is the first thing you learn in any kind of water safety course. They WILL panic, you WILL get dragged down, you WILL become another liability someone else has to save instead of helping your initial target.

And that isn't even mentioning this being a flooded river. That's POOL safety.

In spite of how I think Mapleshade was right to lie, I do think Frecklewish being that upset and angry was understandable.

You're entitled to your feelings, but not how you treat people. She still attacked Mapleshade and called the kittens a slur.

That's what makes her interesting, though.

I don't think she deserves the Dark Forest, but Frecklewish's anger is an interesting trait. I don't like how a lot of defensive interpretations of her character end up downplaying how she acted at the exile

why does a woman being rightfully angry suddenly strike people as "unsympathetic." Girls can also say things in fury they don't fully mean. OR girls can rationalize their unjustified, ballistic response post-hoc out of pride.

Idk let girls be mad. Admit they were wrong without deserving HELL. I don't like the woobification impulse.

It's not really a hot take anymore I think, but Frecklewish is definitely only in the DF because the writing team judges women characters more harshly. Oakstar threw babies out in the rain in fury, and Ravenwing didn't stop it. But somehow only Frecklewish, a normal warrior, gets DF'd.

But what really rattles around in my head about the whole story is the way that the in-universe culture is able to suddenly value ethics like peace, forgiveness, and tolerance when MAPLESHADE is ready to throw those things out, but BEFORE then, it's well established that Clan culture is violent, vengeful, and intolerant.

One of our earliest scenes is Rainfall snarling at Mapleshade that he loves the way Birchface and Flowerpaw drowned. He's threatening that he'll kill even more ThunderClan warriors.

Over in ThunderClan, everyone is itching for revenge against Appledusk for those deaths, even though it seems to have been an accident. Oakstar even hates RiverClan well into sequel books for this.

But then later on, everyone acts Shocked Pikachu that Mapleshade actually went and GOT revenge.

And like, let's be real. This is a battle culture. Yes, by OUR standards Revenge Is Bad.

But in these books, so full of war and clan conflict...?

What I'm saying is that I wish the books let Mapleshade be a little more "controversial" in-universe. Like some cats actually frame the story very differently, and you can learn a lot about a person by who they think the hero is.

And how RiverClan responds to the drowned kids bugs me a lot tbh

We just established over in ThunderClan that there are people who think the babies were born filthy for being HalfClan.

We know everyone there stood by and watched as Oakstar threw them out into the rain-- only Ravenwing even seemed uncomfortable.

AND we know very well that in a few generations, TigerClan will rise. Which openly executed a HalfClan cat and wanted to kill 2 apprentices.

We KNOW the bigotry in Clan culture is deadly and unfair.

But then they go over to RiverClan and Darkstar is sad these three kids are dead? And RC is furious with Mapleshade for that?

Again, YES, you and me with OUR morals know that this bigotry is insane and spiteful. What I'm getting at is that IN-UNIVERSE half clan kittens and their parents face extreme discrimination. Even within this book.

It's odd to me that Darkstar refuses to let Mapleshade bury their bodies, sends her away for the death of the kids while saying it's "not the season for losing warriors" to Appledusk, and it's meant to come across as delusional that Maple thinks her babies were buried dishonorably

I wish more women in WC got so pissed off at the absolute injustice of it all that they went on a girl rampage. Perhaps it's my own taste, but I like it a lot more when the villain isn't entirely wrong and there's several angles you can read the story from. If she didn't do what she did, she would have been the only one who saw any consequences for anything that happened.

Anyway in conclusion uhhh idk murder is wrong. But Mapleshade's allowed to do it because she's a silly billy. Her greatest crime was not killing Oakstar also

[the-owl-tree]

this question also includes the need to imagine a characters development, but whats ur opinion on squirrel/shrew? do you think he couldve been a more interesting character for her?

also wanna say sun/finch. i personally like sunbeam with his sister more than nightheart himself, they have a more interesting relationship.

Squirrel/Shrew: I get the appeal of wanting someone to support Squirrelflight and Shrew was a nice friend who became a tragic "what if". I disagree with the notion he would be more interesting - I think a lot of the unfairness of her situation is actually what makes her very appealing to people - but I don't think the intention behind Shrewpaw Lives AU's are for drama, I think people want a more wholesome AU where Squilf actually has some support. Not for me but also totally understand the appeal of it!

Sun/Finch: It's what should have happened. Nightheart's ditches his mate again and Sunbeam is left reeling in an unknown environment with cats she barely knows and Finchlight is there to be her support, her light at the end of the tunnel. Shipping designated female love interest with boring male pov's sister is not only your right, but it is in fact your duty.

[coseris]

- TBC The Darkness Within: 6/3/24

books i finished in 2024:

- skyclan’s destiny: 1/2/24

[troutfur]

thistlebush helping kill silverstream, but also maybe helping shelter leafpool and squirrelflight and their kits from the worst of snow even in such a weak power level while they rest in a nearby tree or something, because even if leafpool shouldnt have kits, even if theyre half clan and he's not happy about that she's still his MEDICINE CAT and the only one at that, and by starclan he will NOT let his medicine cat get frostbite because she's stupid even if he's not fully happy with her for being stupid with the running off thing or whatever replaces it in this au because i know people change this arc a lot on who the sire is and how it happens but she's their only medicine cat and the plan she has to put this behind her and move on is a good one, she's clearly repenting unlike stupid graystripe insert obligatory she shouldnt have to but like its thistleclaw here

maybe his tugging on her fur was one of the reasons squirrelflight agreed, as if it was him trying to go "yes, cmon, its perfect, we can fix this, say yes"

I just...i love his nuance, i love him, i hold your portrayals of mudclaw and thistleclaw so gently in my hands as wrong but nuanced cats who did bad things, and dont regret it, but had interesting nuanced reasons why and are capable of more then just those things

✍️

Y'all are on fire with this Thistlebush scenarios.

Yes, yes! I can imagine that, with the move and them no longer having a RiverClan border the new location he took root in after the stray seeds caught in someone's pelt could be somewhere aroudn the other border, near WindClan. He could have seen Leafpool go out, give her a scratch as she left, as bad as he could given his power level and the limitations of his magic to punish her for deserting the clan and when she comes back that same way... He's surprised by her loyalty and lets her pass, only leaving a stray seed or pollen on her so he has a connection to her.

I can see him using that liaison to the camp to listen in on her and Squilf as they are planning and fretting and with what little power he still has manifesting in their dreams, pointing them to a hiding place, letting them know about a place where they can rest and give birth to their kits.

The three are dangerous to StarClan. The prophecy plus the fact they came from a codebreaker doesn't endear them to the kittens. For all they care let Leafpool bear the consequences of her actions, whatever those may be.

Firestar is dead, Hawkfrost's plan succeeded, and Brambleclaw is carrying his involvement to the grave as he ingratiates himself with the very rule-following Brackenstar. Leafpool is beloved, but without her dad in the highest office will she be granted leniency? StarClan doesn't really care, but if not, two birds with one stone eh?

Thistleclaw has other ideas. He can't help directly, and he hates the idea of these kits in principle. But the Clan having a medicine cat is important. She better not repeat this fuckup, though. He has his limits.

Aaaaah, thank you! <3 Putting out these concepts and playing with the ideas of StarClan as the embodiment of the historical memory of the Clans is very, very interesting to me. I'm glad it's resonating and really hitting for y'all.

My plans for Haneossia are very all-encompassing and ambitious. So many moving parts and concepts to explore, not only with the supernatural side of things but also with the default polyamory dynamics. I'm still trying to figure out how to realize it all within a format that is comfortable to me. I am, at my core, a writer of short stories not long form fiction. So bear with me as I experiment and see how I can strike a balance between executing my ideas and keeping my workload manageable.

[nightly-ruse]

I had this idea of OneFire hypoparent versions of Squilf and Leaf and couldn’t not do it so here they are!

Pretty much at the start of tnp little Ploverpaw and Squirrelpaw are separated across borders taken by each of their dads, Ploverpool with Onestar and Squirrelcurl with Firestar. To finally stop the constant fights from Windclan as Onestar wanted one of his daughters. Ended up with a whole au for them that I actually really love.

Beware long au explanation of the two

Squirrelcurl

Small curly cat so full of energy it’s like she’s got the wind in her heart. With more of her father Onewhisker’s stripes but a warmer tone and shape like her papa Fireheart she’s very torn with her loyalties. While she does have the spirit for the moor she was very easily divided with her papa because of her coat, height, and stumpy legs. And while she does love Fire a lot she sometimes wishes her and Plover could’ve been raised closer together. Does not get along with her father Onestar much the two butting heads harshly and with differing opinions very quickly getting into fights.

She does not get with Bramble but instead with Crowfeather after they got close over the journey, meeting him more under the guise of visiting her sister. The two were close and said they’d run away together! Find a place where all can love with no borders tearing them apart! Until it all crumpled as Squirrel couldn’t leave all her family and friends behind and Crow started to find he didn’t like the true fire in her heart. They split harshly breaking both cats hearts in a massive fight, running back to their own clans. Except Squirrelcurl was expecting his kittens and she’d have no way to explain them away.

Squirrelcurl makes a plan with her sister who is also expecting and they leave with Mothwing and Nightcloud to have the litters under a guise of a vision. She has Starlingkit and Ravenkit who she knows she cannot keep, they look far too much like their father to ever stay. On the way back she gives the two to Nightcloud who promises to love them for her, deciding to rename them Hollykit and Breezekit for their parentage of the forest and the moors.

Eventually after the secrets revealed by Hollyscratch and Breezecloud she makes amends with both her kittens, and finds she loves Nightcloud with the two becoming mates once she divorces Bramblestep.

Ploverpool

Tall curly and powerful their was no hiding the clear mix of blood in Ploverpool’s pelt she was a very mixed cat. Having Firestar’s pattern, ears, and strong paws but Onestar’s coat, eyes, curl, tail, and height she was clear from her birth where she came from. But with her height and slight fear of shadows she was kept by her father Onewhisker, having to watch her sister walk away. Very early on she found a solution, if she was a healer she could travel across borders and see anyone she wanted! And learn the secrets most cats can’t even touch. As such she was trained under Barkface.

She does find love across borders, right by a little flowing creek. A cat much like her in statue such just beauty it struck her speechless she had to know her. And then at her first moonpool meeting to see just the cat saunter up she fell head over paws. Plover and Moth fall in love, using the excuse of their healer duties to hang out often having Squirrel or Nightcloud tag along with them. They thought nothing bad could come from this as long as no one found out. Until someone did. Plover knew someone had seen them when she found a moth wing and thorn snuck in her nest. Paranoia seeping into her pelt.

Plover realizes she’s expecting just a few nights after her sister came to her telling her similar news. They make a plan to all leave with Mothwing and Nightcloud in case anything were to happen, have the kittens in secret and figure out what to do after. She has three beautiful bundles of fur. Fritillarykit, Jaykit, and Tadpolekit. Sadly as they travel back Tadpole becomes too weak and passes away, buried just between the River and Wind borders by their mothers. Fritillarykit is kept by Mothwing and Jaykit is taken by Squirrelcurl who could easily pass the little pale kitten as her own.

When the secrets revealed Ploverpool finally breaks and moves to Riverclan to be with her mate and eventually raise their second litter of Dandelionkit, Hawkkit, Sparkkit, and Alderkit. Fritillaryblaze ends up also following his moms across the border to be with his new family, Jaydream crossing over often as well.

[booksofstars]

💋 : is there any ships out there you absolutely hate for genuinely no good reason at all. like its not problematic in the slightest, if anything it's one of the better ones, you just cannot bring yourself to enjoy it

🖌 : when did you make your first warriors oc? (if you say you've never had OCs, i dont believe you)

🤔 : what's the biggest series plothole that's bugged you?

(sorry if youve answered any of these already!!!! i scrolled thru ur blog for a bit and couldnt find answers for these so i assumed they hadnt been asked :'3)

they havent! thank u for asking :3

💋:

i cannot stand hawkash. absolutely no hate to anyone who likes it!! i just cant see ashfur as wanting to date anyone but squilf, and hawkfrost is arospec and ace To Me. crookedblue is another one i have trouble liking (bc i like oakheart and willowbreeze a lot) but i dont hate it by any means! honestly i have trouble w most bluestar ships bc shes both aroace and kinda a “one love of my life” type to me

🖌️:

hmm…2015? i think? her name was hopefur/hopestar, and she was based on a plushie i had. she was retooled into a dnd character, a tabaxi cleric named second chance!

🤔:

where do prophecies and the threes powers come from? why is dotc forgotten, but the myths of lionclan, tigerclan, and leopardclan exist? where is sol, or rock, or midnight? what happened to princess and smudge? why cant dark forest cats be redeemed, or starclan cats be cast out? since when are there starclan trials???? all good questions i think lmao

(my asks are still open for this!!

[cryptidclaw]

FINALLY someone who sees Squirrelflight the same way I do, not as the saint the fandom makes her out to be, but a character whose in the wrong and needs to get her shit together. I'm sorry but she and Brambleclaw have issues sure, but Bramble isn't just the one in the wrong. The fandom treats him like he's the devil (they treat Ashfur the same way, when I personally think his arc was interesting taking into account he found his mother as dog bait when he was a child and was basically left parentless, he and ferncloud took it very differently, fern going and becoming a mother to everyone and Ash trying to find love somewhere else and then getting rejected. Did he take it too far yeah, he did ofc but it's interesting to look at the psychology behind it) this fandom treats Squirrel and Leaf like their saints and can do no wrong but from where I see it. . .they cause plenty of the problems. Like why didn't they tell bramble about the three? How hard would that have been to tell squirrels mate, someone she trusts, what's going on?

since we talking about the morality/ goodness of Squirrelflight and Leafpool (and Brambleclaw and Ashfur) now I thought I would group these together and just ramble about Squirrel and Leafpool for a bit

I personally think that Squirrelflight and Leafpool are good people who had to make hard decisions that would inevitably hurt people in the hopes of protecting each other and their loved ones.

These two live in basically a cult and had to do some crazy shit to protect Leaf and her kits, and I don't blame them for what they chose to do in the situation they were put in. Were there ways that could have possibly been better? Ya probably, but they aren't evil for choosing to do what they did.

Also Squilf hurt the 3 by not telling them they were adopted, but also I feel like that's where her crimes end. Like Brambleclaw has been shown to be an abusive prick so I wouldn't blame Squirrel for not wanting to tell him the truth, especially when he's Thunderclan's deputy. I have a hard time believing he would have gone along with their plan, and he probably would have done something cruel and stupid if they told him. Yes him finding out did hurt him so I guess that's a crime in a way, but i really dont think Squirrel had any other options in that department.

I think out of Squirrel and Leaf, leaf is much more in the wrong here (love her and her bad decisions tho hehe). She had like some of the most illegal babies ever due to some really bad decisions (even if its unfair that her relationship was illegal) and then she let her sister take on most of the responsibility of dealing with her mistakes. Squirrelflight could have had a chill scandal-less life, but instead she took in her sister's kits and lied to the clan and her mate all to protect Leaf, when it wasn't even her problem and Leaf didn't stop her. Leaf didn't take on much responsibility for her mistakes, she just let Squif do that. I understand why but still if there's anyone to be mad it its Leaf and her bad decision making skills lol

I really love how complex their situation is, its probably one of the most interesting things that has happened in warriors. Its complicated, and the characters involved are good people who made bad decisions, and hard decisions. They wanted to protect the people they loved and it inevitably failed. I love a good tragic drama.

these two sisters are some sad soggy meow meows

I could go on even longer but I wont, could prob expand on Leafpool opinions too but i shall stop here.

[back-in-my-wc-hyper-fixation-ig]

I saw something once where people were talking about after it's revealed that Hollyleaf killed Ashfur, and how Dustpelt said Holly "did them a favor" and were wondered what happened during Ash's apprenticeship that put them at odds. But I raise you: Birchfall is Dustpelt's son and the only survivor of that litter, as well as Ash's first apprentice. We know that he was really aggressive with Lionblaze because he thought he was Squilf's son, but what if he did something to Birchpaw after Squilf dumped him Because he was angry?

[vixenday]

i am still going through the horrors but i made an au!!! it’s a squirrelflight au called the crush au, where she stays with ashfur. nightcloud doesn’t divorce crowfeather but does NOT like him (staying together for breezekit’s sake), crowfeather knows about the three’s existence but doesn’t give a darn about them, and squirrelflight still takes the kits and tells ashfur they’re his, as she did with brambleclaw.

ashfur is a controlling piece of fox dung to squirrelflight, as one could expect from him, forcing her to fit in the role of a loving wife and mother so he can live his white-picket-fence dream. squilf finds solace in talking to nightcloud at gatherings about their shitty mates, and the two become friends. they start to sneak out to see each other and talk with each other, and become besties. this was a thing from my other tumblr draft about it that i haven’t posted yet which essentially is them.

ashfur eventually gets worse to squilf, and leafpool knows it’s not good but it really sets in when jaypaw, her very new apprentice, mentions it. leafpool is very upset and gets squilf to tell firestar and sandstorm. she eventually gets support and leaves ashfur and he seems chill about it, but he is Not. he’s essentially stalking her, and wuh oh nightcloud and squirrelflight, eventually, become secretly romantic crowleaf style (at this point nightcloud divorced crowfeather, and this takes place a while later as squilf needs to heal and repair her mental state before jumping into another relationship). ashfur snaps because “only i can have her” weird shit. fire scene!!!! but, it is different. ashfur plans it more carefully, a lot more. he wants to take away everything squirrelflight ever loved, so he can be the only thing she can love. it’s not as much revenge like it is in canon but an attempt to destroy her further so she only has him left. the fire scene is essentially the same, with the exception of nightcloud being there rather than squirrelflight. and instead of the classic “they’re adopted lol” bit, breezepelt pops out of nowhere and literally up and attacks ashfur, and the others get to escape. i have no clue how i’m gonna get nightcloud there but i will FIGURE IT OUT, breeze just follows nightcloud. I PROMISE THIS IS COOL AND MAKES SENSE THIS IS A RLLY CONDENSED VER. OF THE AU

ashfur lives and he gets a cool scar from the fire, and he goes “ugh fine you know what. HEY EVERYONE SQUIRRELFLIGHT ATTACKED ME AND SHES DATING NIGHTCLOUD” but nightcloud, i love her, is a stubborn lady that takes no shit, and essentially argues with ashfur at the gathering. starclan is pissed and does the moon cloud cover thing, but the clans remain at the gathering. crowfeather gets upset at nightcloud, nightcloud is sticking to her morals and taking no shit from ashfur, ashfur is just an asshole, squilf is two moments away from a panic attack and leafpool is considering murder, you know how it is. some stuff happens that i haven’t figured out, but eventually nightcloud and breezepaw go to thunderclan. why? i think it’s an adorable found family idea LOOK AT THEM.

that’s my wip half-done au that is not developed at all but i love the idea and am going to be doodling and developing it over the next few weeks ^^

[exocynraku]

now that its the 4th i can finally talk about shadow!! yahoo!!! SHADOW SPOILERS BELOW . ASC SHADOW . IF U DON'T WANT SPOILERS DON'T OPEN THE CUT!!!! SPOILERS BELOW!! LIKE. SO MANY SPOILERS. FOR THE WHOLE ENTIRE BOOK. PLEASE BEWARE

ok so that book was surprisingly? not that bad. the BIGGEST thing that happened was BRAMBLESTAR RETIRED!!! SQUILF IS GOING TO BECOME LEADER!!!! (unless something bad happens) and i am SO PUMPED FOR IT!!! FINALLY STUPID IDIOT BRAMBLESTAR IS GONNEEE i still skimmed over nightheart chapter this arc and tbh? he didnt really do that much. talked to sunbeam. talked to berryheart. talked to bramblestar and sparkpelt. did some tasks. FAILED HIS TASKS ON PURPOSE TO LEAVE SUNBEAM BEHIND AND GO BACK TO THUNDERCLAN WHAAAT??? honestly i dont think they shouldve let him back in but whatever AND NOW SUNBEAMS GOING TO THUNDERCLAN TO BE WITH HIM. babygirl just leave him please

sunbeam also didnt do a crazy amount of things it was mostly just interacting with nightheart but there was one thing i wanted to talk about! in one of the chapter (I dont remember which one) she had a dream about nightheart WITH ANOTHER CHICK?? she was described as a silver tabby with blue eyes and i tried to see if that was a cat but the only ones that are even CLOSE are flowerstem from shadowclan and shimmerpelt from riverclan, who are both described as silver mollies. IK it was proooobably just a dream but . what if its more of a vision. what if that actually ends up happening. very interesting....

berryheart still kinda sucked BUT ALSO. she is schemeing with RIVERCLAN to get tigerstar out!!! whaaat!!! specifically splashtail! WHO'S CLOSE TO FROSTPAW!!! i was actually pretty shocked lol! duskfur and mallownose (i think thats their name?) were also there

on the topic of riverclan reedwhiskers death was CONFIRMED. to be a murder. BY SOMEONE HE WAS PROBABLY CLOSE TO. WHAAAT??? I was so shocked! And intrigued! I'm SO excited to figure out who that was. he also said to frostpaw 'there is a darkness in riverclan' which is VERY interesting. also frostpaw has a crush on splashtail and its literally killing me babygirl thats your cousin. ough. also i think splashtail might be evil. i hope hes evil. that would be very interesting

ok time to talk abotu FROSTPAW!!!!!! little. tiny. i love her. she was so interesting this book. BIGGEST thing about her is SHE'S NOT A HEALER ANYMORE! she decided to become a warrior apprentice again because of her (supposedly) fake visions! splashtails been trying to convince her to become a healer again but it is NOt working LOL. though the odd thing is, now she's having REAK visions! she had the vision about reedwhisker where she was in the attackers body who attacked him and then threw him over the ravine. BUT!! cuz she's not a med cat anymore, she only told this to splashtail and.,... and.... she's going to tell whistlepaw too!!!! that means... WINDCLAN CONTENT!!!!!!!! im so excited! BUT. she didn't get to windclan! before she could make it, someone ATTACKED HER! it wasn't shown who it was or if it was riverclan or windclan or someone else but EEK!!! please be okay frostpaw. please. aaaaanyway, i thought this book was pretty good, surprisingly! frostpaw is still my number one fav :3 also i love owlnose & splashtail. i love alot of riverclan. icewing, shimmerpelt.... such cool characters!!! also lightleap and blazefire are cute

[bonefall]

instead of asking what parts of wind you’ll be getting rid of, i’ll instead ask what parts you’re keeping. the list is shorter then haha

FROSTPAW AND WHISTLEPAW.

Best part of Wind is the bond between these two, in fact, the entire plot about WindClan felt like it dropped out of the alternate universe where the books are good. The sudden dream of catastrophe, the way StarClan gave Frostpaw this sign on purpose to make them know she's legitimate, Whistlepaw injuring herself to try and save her little sister... Even the little details, like Nightcloud and Hootwhisker trying to drag the tree by the trunk, were neat to see.

I Dont Rewrite Arcs Until They Are Done BUT I do know that I'm going to elevate and expand what's going on with Frost and Whistle. They're fantastic.

Another small thing I'm actually planning on keeping is this exchange between Squilf and Jayfeather, which you'll probably find surprising since I'm so open about how much I dislike the way they've made Squilfstar less proactive;

In a better book, I think this could have been a GREAT moment.

What I dislike about this exchange is that Squilf is able to rebuke it, because the writers DO feel that Bramblestar was a good leader. They're trying to show that Squilfstar is going to act more "mature" (read: boring) with her role now, probably to make a point about how Bramblestar wasn't being "indecisive" for the 10 years we were stuck with him but "responsible." Basically, she gets the power and finds out it isn't so easy-- I'll even bet at some point in the next arc or two she'll become frustrated by someone acting the way she used to.

I've seen some people praising this, and like, it's not illegal to have bad taste. But I think this is an AWFUL thing to do with a character who could have finally caused interesting things to happen, on top of just feeling like contempt of criticism on behalf of the writers.

"Ohhhh they thought she would be more decisive than our beloved baby boy, WELL, WE'LL SHOW THEM. You will sit through 10 paragraphs of debate no matter WHO is in charge!!!"

But like I said....... in a better book, this could have been great. If this was a wake-up call for her.

Suddenly experiencing the full weight of responsibility upon herself, she stops making bold decisions. The complicated political situation in front of her, individual opinions of her Clan around her, and the wounded glares of the furious Brambleclaw below her are all acting like briar vines, pulling her down.

Even StarClan itself seems to have placed a weight on her, cats who she's followed faithfully and been punished by.

So Jayfeather, with all of the changes he has in BB, brawling with angels, speaking defiance to the stars, and pulling spirits down from the heavens, is the perfect cat to be honest with her.

I'm still trying to find a good way to describe the electricity between them in this moment. BB!Jayfeather once reached up his paw through the veil between life and death to grab her ankle and fetch her from her own trial, knowing that she wanted to keep living. He's part of whatever motion she took to remove Bramblestar from power. Her son, her cleric, her ally. How do I put these emotions into words?

"Did you come this far just to become someone else?"

Just... what a moment it could be. For this to be the second that Squilfstar realizes in spite of everything, Bramblestar's thorns still jab at her. That she has to move forward, DAMN the uncertainty, by being herself.

[the-owl-tree]

How did Hollystar and Cinderheart's relationship start in poolverse?

friends to courting to covering up a murder buddies to awkward and distance to lovers my beloved :D

Like in canon, they were friends as apprentices and pretty good ones! Hollypaw got along with the sister trio really well, having a sometimes-not-so-friendly rivalry with Honeypaw, a laidback friendship with Poppypaw, and a really close friendship with Cinderpaw. There's no sparks yet as Hollypaw is wrestling with her crush on Willowpaw and the small fallout between them that happens when she returns to being a warrior.

Feelings later arise as young warriors where the two begin tentatively courting each other, ThunderClan settling into a (unknowingly brief) time of peace. This period is where they're both settling nicely into their own lives, really coming together in their identities and ambitions and places in their Clan. The two begin to drift when Hollyleaf begins to seek the role of deputy, her ambitions and distancing from Cinderheart causing a bit of rift in their courting.

Then the fire happens, and everything falls apart. Hollyleaf isn't the same, distant and snappy and angry and Cinderheart is unsure how to help. It's only when she catches Hollyleaf prowling out at sunrise, following Ashfur to the river...and messily murdering him, that she realizes something is very wrong. I've mentioned my HC for this before so i'll just breeze over this one, Cinderheart is the one who pushes the body in the river and cleans the blood and mud off of Hollyleaf.

Hollyleaf becomes very dependent and clingy to Cinderheart after the ordeal and Cinderheart, despite feeling awful about it, loves the way that she's gotten Hollyleaf "back". The dependence, the way they can both cling to each other...it makes her feel wretched about how good it feels. It's their binding secret, the glue that keeps them together.

Until it's not.

The gathering goes the same in canon, Cinderheart wails in betrayal at what Hollyleaf's done, and in the end, Hollyleaf disappears into the tunnels. Cinderheart is left angry and betrayed and heartbroken, spending a good amount of OOTS in a depression at what's happened. I'm tempted to have her and Lionblaze briefly enter a mateship for a little bit, but eh not sure what it adds other than giving canon a nod.

When Hollyleaf returns from the tunnel, the two avoid each other for a bit. I'm tempted to have someone give Hollyleaf the push to talk to Cinderheart, leaning to either Squilf or Jayfeather (they need to be blunt to snap her out of her daze!). Eventually, the two do talk things out and steadily become on good terms again...then to friends...and once again confidants.

It's only when the great battle is over, when the two realize that they've won and both of them immediately begin racing across the territories to find each other and make sure they're alright, practically crashing into one another as they cling onto each in an embrace that they realize they can try again. The great battle aftermath is where they officially become mates with noooo problems at all-

hey bramble where you going. whaddya mean holly is leader now hEY WAIT-

but thank you for asking!! some ideas i've had to play around with these two's relationship in poolverse is:

hollystar learns cinderheart is a reincarnated cat. she says something stupid lol

cinderheart and hollystar talk about holly's reluctance to let poolkit near leafpool. (since holly is living, i'm keeping the wonky relationship for character development)

a short one but i like the idea of the two talking about their apprenticehood crushes. hollystar is very surprised at how every cat seemed to know she had a big dumb crush on willowpaw

[everybody-loves-purdy]

When it comes to Briarlight, wasn't she pretty miserable when she became disabled? At least in OotS, I definitely remember it getting to the point where she was starving herself, and even in Bramblestar's Storm, we have a little scene of the Clan reminding her how big of a help she is when she was feeling down. I totally agree that there's certainly a conversation to be had with how this series handles disability, but coming in as someone who's also disabled, I don't think it's unrealistic for someone like Briarlight to want to literally walk for eternity in the afterlife either, regardless of whether she eventually came to terms with it or not (to be honest, I always saw Sandstorm's comment as a more pressing issue than Briarlight walking at all).

I don't know, I just feel like if a cat (or anyone, honestly) was so traumatized by their disability and they were then given the opportunity to heal from it, then I don't see the problem because, hey, we're not monoliths. Sometimes learning to fully accept your disability will just never happen, at least not to the point of willing to hold onto it even after you die.

That said, I would honestly love to see a cat keeping their disability in StarClan. Sure, we have Crookedstar and Deadfoot, but let's be honest, they're pretty minor characters when it comes to the main books. It's already been confirmed that Jayfeather will still be blind when he dies and who knows when that'll be or even if it'll change later, but the fact that Longtail healed from his own injuries should probably say something about him specifically, and I think it's implied Cinderpelt's leg healed as well.

Basically, I can see both sides. And in regards to Brightheart, while I wouldn't be surprised if her injuries get healed, I genuinely would love it if she kept them, especially considering the journey she went through. It'd be really fitting, especially after all this time.

Oh I definitely agree, I was only talking about the “happiest time of their life” thing with Briarlight because after Bramblestar’s Storm Briarlight was a lot happier. I just didn’t like the implication that her teenage years were literally her best ones when she did get a lot of happiness before her death.

And her appearance in Squirrelflight’s Hope is most definitely soured by Sandstorm’s comments. It just feels like Briarlight is there to show the reader and Squilf “look you won’t have to live with a disability here isn’t that great! Better to die instead!”

I feel like the most ideal solution with Briarlight to get that balance between what she would want and disabled rep would be to maybe have her legs be supported by extra stars like braces to enable her to walk (so the stars are the ones that enable the movement, like these new robotic leg braces that are being developed irl). But when she sits or lies down to relax they fade so she still sits and lies like she did in life, but the moment she wants to walk or move her legs again they instantly appear and assist her? I feel like that could strike a good balance perhaps? But I don’t have a disability myself so let me me know what you think.

[aurorechaton]

Controversial and/or aggressive brambleclaw take for the warrior cats fandom incoming...

Let me just say that I won't argue any further on this. I haven't read the newest arcs, and I don't want to. I tried reading the arc with Alderheart and Twigbranch twice, and I still couldn't tell you what happened. I literally blocked it out both times.

I've been a warrior cats kid for my entire life. It was the first multi-book series I red on my own, I read the main arcs 7-10 times in roughly 4 years, trust me, I was OBSESSED.

But I was never a part of online fandom culture. I lived under a rock, I didn't have any social media, I barely saw the animations on youtube, and I never looked any deeper. I think that's why I'm so horrified by the fandom take on everything to do with the leafpool-squilf-brambleclaw/star-hawkfrost-the three-etc. thing.

CONTEXT:

When I was a child, I loved leafpool. I was never a big fan of squilf, and I can admit that may cloud some of my takes. I am going to arguably be defending Brambleclaw up until the end of the fourth arc, but I don't think I'll be doing it in the way you think?

THE ROOT OF THE ISSUE:

I was genuinely SO MAD , while the sisters were warning Brambleclaw not to interact with Hawkfrost.

While we as an audience know that they were correct to do so, I related heavily to Bramble's need to connect with family. Maybe it was the way I vividly remembered how Firestar kept thinking about how Bramble looked like Tiger I, maybe it was everything that Tawny went through, maybe it was just my intense need to see warrior cats who overcame prejudice, but I hated the way Leafpool approached the whole situation. Rather than attempt to connect with Bramble, her clanmate, and the tom courting her sister, she only interacted with him to speak badly about Hawkfrost. She literally had her in with Moth, right there. She almost always stuck her foot in her mouth, failed to provide much evidence, or to connect with him on an emotional level.

FACTS v FEELINGS, + my attempt to fight what I think are the most prevalent views? If you don't think this way, this post isn't about you.

Squilf's arguments were more convincing, but facts and logic won't win when what you are arguing against is emotional connections. It certainly didn't for Leafpool, or any cat with a cross-clan relationship who KNEW it was only hurting them. You can't out-logic the heart. I should think we all know that.

I believe the moonkitti video, (which I will being using as a rough reference, since it helpfully gives direct quotes,) about Bramblestar was the most aggravating for this particular reason. The excerpts given in the video often take such a lens that is presumably only about facts, when warrior cats is a soap opera, it's about the emotional connections. Squilf, for example, tells Bramble that Leaf doesn't Like Hawk, but admits she hadn't bothered asking why, and questions why Bramble would ever feel an emotional connection with his half-brother. I find this extremely hypocritical. Bramble has shown himself to be extremely obsessed with the way the clan sees him, his father, and the connection between them. Squilf should know by now that Bramble feels much stronger about keeping his connection with Tawny that vice versa. Moonkitti also implies that because Squilf doesn't even imply something, it's the same as denying it, which, pointedly she doesn't do. (not five minutes later, the video also shows an excerpt where Bramble doesn't tell Squilf something, and she immediately takes this as a sign of hostility and rejection. He didn't imply that with his voice, posture, or words, and they literally just had an argument. Bramble is clearly just insecure and in his own head. She's supposed to be the more socially adjusted one.)

When he jumps immediately to emotional responses, so does she, claiming that Bramble clearly doesn't know anything about her, but clearly the same goes the other way around, so I find this extremely wild. I could understand her offense in the moment, but it goes round and round like this every time, and at no point does she attempt to clear the air on a previous conversation in a patient or genuine way. I'm not saying she has to, but I think it is something at least worth noting. While everyone agrees she's attempting to reconcile with him, I would argue she does it it the worst way possible for him specifically.

Bramble is willing to accept her apologies, and will apologize himself later, but just because he's willing to forgive doesn't mean he's over it, and he's clearly been slow to trust anyone with what happens in his head. Mans spends way too much time thinking if you ask me. Was the most annoying part of the series. She then tells him off for gossiping with Hawk at a gathering. And yes, what they were saying was rude, but Squilf makes it sound paradoxically like disliking Onewisker's decision is somehow being disloyal to Thunderclan, because Onewisker is friendly to the clan, and also only unacceptable because he was discussing it with Hawkfrost. Plenty of cats in previous books would have been considered grumpy but loyal for expressing those kinds of opinions. I find it odd that she tells him off for criticizing someone he has no moral or personal allegiance to. She also deflects every question he asks her, no matter how genuine or asinine, which honestly does feel like an implication.

Which is why I don't like seeing Squilf as the sole victim here. Yes, she's a victim. Considering that when she realizes she still wants Bramble, she's been given a great out and he has made no attempt at winning her favor again (no honeymoon phase), and then she doesn't even bring up her issues with Hawkfrost again (supposedly the catalyst for all of this). This doesn't feel like her being manipulated back into a relationship; this feels like shitty writing. The fact that the narrative makes no move to actually reconcile them is not Bramble's fault, it's the Erins.

I think Moonkitti best exemplifies my frustration with this particular issue by saying "when he, again, criticizes her for being distrusting and being rude to Hawkfrost", which, in this situation, she was actually directly attacking HIM, almost more so than Hawkfrost. From his point of view, I wonder if it doesn't sound exactly like that. (She will continue to do this. It will only get worse.) Instead of Leaf and Squilf being worried Bramble is being dragged into this while he's emotionally vulnerable, they both begin to berate him instead of connecting with him. Why does anyone think that should work for them? They may be objectively right, but their arguments are not at all persuading. (Proabably on purpose, damn Erins shakes fist)

Not Defending Everything, OBVIOUSLY:

In the next line, of course, Bramble says he'd never choose someone else over her. (and if I were to fix this the only way fandom can, I'd interpret this to be a showcase of his desperate need to be trusted; a false promise to return that trust. In context I think the Erins mean this literally, so... eh, not a great moment for him, no.) This, I think we can safely say is objectively false in that moment, although not outright malicious.

In this case, the relationship is abusive not due to the will of the individuals, but because of the outside pressures of the horrible system the Erins have built that must not be questioned. When the Erins make terrible narrative decisions to defend their biased world-building, we're supposed to blame them, and work to remedy the situation within the fandom, not accept it as gospel. It's what we do with Hollyleaf and Ashfur, or any of their decisions about where dead cats go.

Yes, Bramble is horrible to Squilf, Warrior Cats is an inherently misogynistic story, this is hardly the first time toms treat their mates horribly. Given my experience with warriors, in none of the 7 times I read through this arc, even disliking the relationship, did it seem particularly toxic because of Bramble. Usually, it was Squilf being forced into courting because of the expectations of clan life, and Bramble doing what a lot of other toms did; flirting with her, seeing her as incapable of defending herself, especially from other men, etc.

SOCIAL INTERACTIONS IN WARRIORS:

I've seen people ragging on the fact that Bramble hesitated to free Firestar, despite the fact that he was being actively manipulated, something shady was going on in his clan, he was isolated, and was afraid that Fire would accuse him, something that from his earlier distrust of Bramble as a kit because of his EYES, might even seem reasonable when Hawkfrost seemed (before that point) to be the perfect example of people only seeing their pelts. He also has a right to hesitate to figure out what to do next, seeing as Hawkfrost clearly wasn't just going to let this go? Idk, pretty nit-picky in both directions.

Before the journey over the mountains, Bramble only has an established relationship (From his perspective) with Tawny and maybe squilf? Even they are pretty distant. Bramble is never shown hanging out with other cats in the clan, or even thinking about particular cats he wants to get back to. If I didn't know about the third and fourth arcs I would have told you that Bramble's arc would only be resolved by connecting with Fire, or by leaving the clan entirely. Personally, I would have had Leafpool be his draw back to the clan, a brown tabby, Firestar's daughter, a calm and intensely caring cat, who cares so much about family and her clan, I wanted to see Fire basically become Bramble's surrogate father in the second arc it HURT.

On the other side, Ashfur IS set up with a sort of clique (although it quickly disintegrates because by this point the Erins were done writing genuine friendships outside of siblings.), and does appear to be close with other cats before his introduction. We have no reason to believe his is insecure about his relationships with others, and no reason to believe his reputation in the clan is in any danger (even if it's just in his own head). This is what, to me, separates the two sides of our love triangle. Bramble almost always backs off the second he sees Squilf with another cat, and I believe that if the Erins were less stubborn, or Brambleclaw had any other friends, their relationship might well have died out naturally. Ashfur on the other hand is just a creep. I don't like him, never did.

I don't think any of Bramble's actions make him nonredeemable until after Mudclaw's coup. Even after that, I found him mostly reacting in the way someone who's been ostracized, and whose clan is probably eyeing him with suspicion at the moment, which, near as I can tell, is literally his greatest fear. With the added patented warriors misogyny on top of course. People keep questioning his loyalty, so he becomes a hardass about putting the clan first, particularly pointing it the woman who he's desperate to prove wrong and also strangely overprotective of, that's pretty on brand for Warriors.

While I honestly don't think the Erins meant to set all of this up like this, I think there are some compelling narrative threads to Bramble's story in the second arc. I think author bias accidentally reflected some very real trauma that can come from the pressures patriarchy puts on men. But, again, this is the ERINS book, obviously there are lots of flaws to be found. Not even the characters that are meant to be perfect are without some semblance of bigotry. I find the specific hate borne towards Bramble to be the result of the fandom's pent up frustrations with the writing of this arc and the waffling characterization, rather than an honest reflection of how people felt when they were first forced to interpret this character. I do not think this is the only cat this happened to. I think Dovewing got similarly shafted by the fandom. I think she was one of the few "anxious" cats that felt somewhat authentic. (Again, ignoring everything with Tiger II, assume I didn't even read all that)

TL;DR:

OBVIOUSLY I DID NOT SHIP THESE TWO, I DO NOT LIKE THEIR RELATIONSHIP. (I think they should be surrogate siblings, and if someone could feed that delusion I should be ever so thankful)

I do not think their relationship actually had a power imbalance in the earlier arcs. Squilf has her father's favor and trust, as well as her sister, a medicine cat. If she at any point actually felt like Brambleclaw was a legit threat or bully, she had the option to do more than just avoid him. She never lets anyone else stand up for her, though. I think it's unfair to say that just because she didn't leverage her power, that she didn't have any. Were she a more viscous or cornered cat, she had the ammunition to sway the clan against Bramble. Their relationship didn't start until both of them were old enough to be warriors, even if Squilf was an apprentice when they set out, and Bramble had no say over her actions away from the clan. Squilf often makes this clear.

I think the abuse seen in their relationship is only more obvious to the reader as the Erins attempt to write their way around a willful woman without rethinking their bias against women. I do not think it is any more pronounced than many other warriors relationships. I think that Squilf's sudden change to submissive and powerless is a direct result of her perceived motherhood in the Erins eyes.

I think people forget that Brambleclaw's personal story is about trust and acceptance, making the fact that Squilf lied to him at any point push him to his most emotional extremes. Considering the entire third and fourth arc is just a whole bunch of secrets and espionage, I think it's telling that he's at worst, a petty bully or paranoid and cold deputy. (Also, I don't think anyone brings up the fact that STARCLAN INTERVENED when trying to defend Squilf in story? like, that feels like a big deal in our judgement of her, but I don't think any of them are privy to that info??) I'd argue his statement when he makes her deputy "there's no one I trust more" is the first time he extends trust willingly and freely to someone outside of his bloodline, and I wish this were treated by the narrative as a resolution to a lot of his character issues.

All this to say I believe there are charitable ways to interpret his actions, and I don't see people doing that?

Mostly, I just want to see Bramble convincingly written like someone with cptsd and who is crushingly isolated, rather than an arrogant prick.

Also, why didn't Leaf talk to Bramble, like, way more????

[yarnclan]

☠️ 🛤️ 🌘

Most impactful death scean:

☠

Probably Yellowfang. I really love mentor-y characters, and dieing is usually part of that. I think i did cry when i first read it as a child. Her acknowlaging Fireheart as more of a son to her than Brokenstar, and that having helped him grow to be a nobel cat, and mentoring Cinderpelt, are things that she can be proud of. And the fact that Fireheart saves Bramblekit over her, and the implications that has on their relationship going forward. And what it means Cinderpelt as well.... ahhh

I'm really excited for this one in the graphic novel, considering how much they've focused on Yellowfang and Fireheart.

Also Tigerstar being killed by Scourge. For completly different reasons. It's kinda one of the most interesting things the series has ever done plot wise. And the scean itself is so brutal and vivid in my mind.

Also Briarlight, though I dont think she should have been killed. Its just a heartbreaking scene.

Favorite journey:

🛤

I think the journey to bring all the Clans to the lake teritories. I like it when all the clans have to work together, and its the most extreme example of it. Traveling with such a large group also gives a lot of interesting dynamics and obsticals. An extention of that, probably one of my favorite parts of the new prophecy, is when Brambleclaw, Squirrelflight, Tawnypelt, Crowfeather and Mistyfoot go on a scouting party around the lake to find locations for each camp. I like how it shows what they take into consideration for where they want to live, and the discriptions of each territory. Also, i love ThunderClan's quarry camp and Squilf doesnt get enough credit for being the one to find it.

I havent read River yet, but Im very excited to read about Frostpaw and Nightheart's Excellent Adventure.

Character with the most wasted potential:

🌘

Every. Character. In. Warriors.

I have a lot of inturpritations of various characters (Brambleclaw, Spottedleaf, Nightheart) but i know they probably arent Really Canon, so they do count as wasted potential in my mind, but they arent exactly counter to canon so....

Needletail. Her death was impactful, and im glad she spent some time as an angry ghost instead of immediatly falling into StarClan Wisdom mode. But she was the one of the Unruly Children to almost have a coherent understanding of the problems in clan society. She thought Darktail was the answer, because he positioned himself that way and she was inexperienced and lonely. I wish she had survived because it could have been really interesting to see her trying to reckon with her ideals post-Darktail. Maybe have her be the one to acknowlage that all of that happened because of Onestar and his prejudeces. To know that she wasn't entirly incorrect in observing that the Clan's devotion to tradition causes a lot of problems.

In my fantasy world she'd even become deputy under Tawnystar and eventually leader... and Violetshine could become leader of SkyClan... and Tigerheart and Dovewing stay with the gaurdian cats idk. Or form a new clan somewhere else. Tigerheart being her deputy could be fine i guess. But i feel like she'd do something wild and pick dovewing instead lol. Having a leader with strong opitions that run counter to clan tradition while also being kinda prickly and sarcastic would be really fun I think. And just in general i wish she got to live. I like her.

Related, ive been on a 'Tawnypelt should have been Tawnystar and its robbery that she didn’t" kick recently.

Also kinda related, Tree. I wish he had more influence in the clans, and that he was even more of a hippie. I wish the mediator role would be adopted by all the clans.