#yqy however did not

[mxtxfanatic]

Also, on the note of whether or not it’s valid to attribute Shen Jiu’s abusiveness to his tragic backstory: Yue Qingyuan has the same tragic backstory up to a point, and where their childhoods diverge still did not create a picture of perfect life in which Yue Qingyuan was able to just coast on by. But Shen Jiu became a jealous, hateful child abuser and Yue Qingyuan did not. Almost as if a terrible childhood doesn’t predict whether or not someone becomes a terrible adult.

[sunderwight]

Okay, concept:

Luo Binghe grew up very poor prior to arriving to QJP. And when he first got to QJP, he was ostracized and neglected. So there are probably a lot of phrases, terms, and ideas that he didn't know were things until SY arrived and started actually teaching him. Right? So the bulk of what he did learn, he learned directly from Shen Yuan's own slightly messy attempts to fake ancient scholarly credentials.

Plus, QJP is supposed to be the peak of scholars and well-read, fancy intellectuals, and YQY probably also doesn't know shit about most of that stuff (having also been a former illiterate street child) and of course is incredibly predisposed to take Shen Qingqiu's side on virtually anything. Especially something frivolous or linked to their shared past, such as someone, say Qi Qingqi, accusing Shen Qingqiu of making up a literary reference or "gibberish" word. If something Shen Qingqiu says is something no one else seems to know, that just proves he's more worldly and well-read than the rest of his peers. Also, Shang Qinghua will probably know it, and despite his many (many) character flaws, Shang Qinghua reads a lot too. There's really very little to convince a former street child turned Demon Emperor whose former education began and ended with Shen Qingqiu specifically and Meng Mo (wildly out-of-touch with human culture anyway) to suspect that some of the difficult-to-source references his master makes really have no worldly source (in this world).

So Luo Binghe, in his quest to become as knowledgeable of all things about his shizun and keep up with him as well as possible, and maybe also put down some arguments he's overheard once and for all, eventually gets annoyed because CLEARLY there is a wealth of cultural knowledge contemporary to Shen Qingqiu and Shang Qinghua that didn't survive to his own generation. His efforts at hunting down all the sources being referenced and origins of certain philosophical ideas or terminology keep coming up empty in certain departments. He's been over the entire QJP library with a fine-tooth comb, but QJP focuses on things pertaining to cultivation, history, and knowledge. Obviously, there are gaps. The archives are unlikely to keep pop cultural references and lowbrow literature, and Luo Binghe begins to suspect (from what tastes his master seems to share with his shishu) that that is that actual source he's missing.

The trashy yellow books and romance literature of their generation! Bawdy poems and lewd artworks so on! Heck, that's probably even where the shared "code" (bad English) comes into play -- disciples are always trying to sneak forbidden material past their teachers and smuggle naughty books into the dormitories. Knowing Shizun and Shang Qinghua, Luo Binghe honestly wouldn't be surprised if the two of them were racketeering that shit in their own disciple days. Shang Qinghua acquiring materials, Shen Qingqiu acquiring buyers, both of them making their extra spending money off of secretly supplying Cang Qiong's population with contraband fiction and art.

Also, that would explain why both Shen Qingqiu and Shang Qinghua get flustered and refuse to elaborate if someone asks them what this or that strange turn of phrase refers to. Shen Qingqiu has a very thin face for actually discussing erotica, and Shang Qinghua doesn't like being caught doing illegal shit.

Luo Binghe desperately needs access to trash lit that's older than he is. However, most of that stuff is not printed to last, and turning it up is like trying to find old Spirk zines without the internet.

Shang Qinghua, the obvious go-to source, also seems to not really have anything that old anymore (intimidating him is laughably easy, if he had anything he would have coughed it up by the second or third time Luo Binghe asked and frowned at the same time), and if Shen Qingqiu did have anything he wouldn't want to be questioned about it. Asking too much might even get it destroyed in an act of excessive embarrassment.

Which means there is just one other person Luo Binghe knows who might be able to lead him to some sources. One other person he is absolutely, 100% certain was extensively reading trashy literature around the same time that Shizun was a young man. Someone who would know where to go to even begin looking for it.

Luo Binghe is going to have to ask Tianlang Jun for help with something.

[svsss-fanon-exposed]

Exposing SVSSS Fanon: 2/∞

SHEN JIU VISITS BROTHELS ONLY TO SLEEP AND NOT FOR SEX

Rating: FANON - SUPPORTED

It is a widely-held belief in the fandom that Shen Jiu only visits brothels to sleep and for comfort, and never has sex with the women. However, the only thing that is directly stated is that his purpose for visiting brothels is for seeking the company of women, and because he feels more comfortable around women than men.

 Though Shen Qingqiu was unpopular among his peers, it wasn’t to the extent of being kicked out of the communal sleeping quarters. He just loathed being in close quarters with those of the same sex... ...Liking women wasn’t the least bit shameful, but treating women like saviors, cowering within their embrace and seeking courage from them…even without anyone saying it, Shen Qingqiu knew that was horrendously shameful.

There is nowhere that directly states he does not have sex while at the Warm Red Pavillion. In fact, after Yue Qingyuan sends Liu Qingge away during the confrontation, it states that:

One person’s [SQQ] clothes were mussed and disheveled, while the other’s [YQY] had not a thread out of place. 

It's often argued that the dishevelled and undressed state (a few paragraphs later, Shen Qingqiu is putting his outer clothes back on) is due to Shen Qingqiu having a fight with Liu Qingge, however, in this scene, Yue Qingyuan is able to stop the fight before Shen Qingqiu can even draw his sword, or before an intense fight can occur.

Yue Qingyuan saw that the situation didn’t look good and pressed Shen Qingqiu’s elbow downward, preventing him from drawing his sword.

It's important to note that it is uncertain whether the two had already come to blows at this point, or if Yue Qingyuan was able to prevent any sort of physical fight from occuring. It is also uncertain whether Shen Qingqiu's state of undress and dishevelment is from sleeping at the brothel, fighting with Liu Qingge, or the earlier fight with BZP disciple Ji Jue, which we do know actually came to blows-- maybe it is a combination of the three.

Therefore, it cannot be said with certainty that Shen Jiu does not have sex with the women at Warm Red Pavilion. However, even if Shen Jiu had undressed to sleep there, it still doesn't mean that he had sex. There's just as much, if not more likelihood that it is only for companionship. He is never described as being fully undressed, so while he probably didn't remove his outer robe just for a fight with Bai Zhan Peak, he was still wearing his inner clothes, which would be normal for simply sleeping in.

There is more evidence that he does not have sex with the women at WRP than otherwise, however, especially when considering the infamous exchange between SQH and SQQ in Bai Lu Forest:

Shen Qingqiu asked. “And where am I supposed to find a male virgin’s pee out in the middle of nowhere?” Once these words left his mouth, he realized that Shang Qinghua was gazing intently at him. “Why are you looking at me?! As for my former self—let’s not talk about that for now. You wrote Shen Qingqiu’s original character yourself. He’s unsullied without, degenerate within, always burning with lust. He had an affair in his youth and sought prostitutes as an adult. You think I’m still a virgin? And don’t point at yourself, Shang Qinghua was written the same way.”

Though with this passage one can make a fairly good argument that Shen Jiu was a virgin, since Shang Qinghua never directly refuted what Shen Qingqiu was saying, it still cannot be said with complete certainty.

The accusation that Shen Jiu was a lecher who was visiting brothels simply to satisfy his lust is canonically false. The real reason that Shen Jiu visited brothels was to seek comfort. However, it is not explicitly stated that the comfort he sought out never included sexual relations, which could still be seen as part of that comfort.

In conclusion, it is fairly likely that Shen Jiu did not have sex at brothels, and only slept there, however, since only the intention was disproved in canon, and not the actions themselves, it cannot be stated as a directly-confirmed, canonical fact and may be interpreted otherwise.

[aniseandspearmint]

Thought about a SVSSS AU.

Everyone seems to have settled into very similar backgrounds for SY, right? He's a rich young shut in, with a family that consists of unknown parents, and an older brother or two (often mirrors of SJ and YQY), and a little sister.

And he's got SOME kind or chronic or ultimately terminal illness.

But what if it was more COMPLICATED than that?

What if all of SY health problems were caused by Fictitious Disorder by proxy? Also called Munchhausen by proxy.

This is when a carer, usually a parent, deliberately causes an injury or illness in their child (or partner, but in this case, CHILD) in order to reap the attention that caring for such an ill child gets them.

I'm not sure how this would be discovered and addressed in china, but given Rich People TM, being pretty similar everywhere, i can see the whole thing being discovered and the rest of the family maybe quietly sweeping SY and the scandal under the rug?

Like, hmmm, okay, say it was SY's mother doing this for attention. She developed the disorder as a form of pathological attention seeking after the birth of her third son, who maybe did have something minor wrong at first. Maybe he was born a bit prematurely, and needed extra support for a while, and that got her a lot of sympathy and care from others.

So she convinces herself that oh, it's not really HURTING him if she slips a little something in his formula that makes him a bit sick. Then in his food as he gets older.

And SY, well he's a smart kid. He maybe figures it out. When his little sister is born and gets sick too, despite being full term and otherwise healthy at first. Maybe he sees his mother slipping something in her food. And he didn't know what to do when it was HIM really, but that's his baby sister.

Or, maybe SY isn't involved in the discovery at all, maybe a maid or a nanny, or one of his brothers, sees something that prompts them to look deeper at the situation.

However it happens, it happens, and his mother vanishes into a family home up in the mountains, or near the coast, and his sister gets better. But him? his mother had been poisoning him for his entire life. He's a bit better now, that he's not ACTIVELY being poisoned, but there's not a fix for him.

He moves out to a fully paid apartment as soon as he's old enough. Maybe even a little sooner, really. His father won't look at him. And his brothers fuss but will hardly look him in the eye either. His little sister, doesn't really know, at first, but then maybe she feels guilty, that it took her getting sick for anyone to realize something was wrong.

He'll NEVER be better, and its all over their faces when he sees them.

Cue shut in behavior, cue obsessing over silly stories, cue transmigration.

I wonder what little differences a SY with that kind of medical trauma and abuse would cause?

[acearohippo]

What do you mean by Shen Jiu being female-coded? /genq

Hello! To preface, in a lot of fandom spheres calling any cis gendered character "[gender]-coded" tends to be negative, usually to highlight poor writing or usage of harmful stereotypes, i.e., male-coded women being arrogant and demeaning to other women or female-coded men being sensitive and the butt of jokes among other men. However, there are instances where it is done and, rather than promote negative gender stereotypes it rather... Emphasises a masculine and feminine natures that resonate with people.

I am not always good with words, but there is [gender]-coded that is basically thinly veiled sexism and there is [gender]-coded that is simply nature. Think along the terms of pre Christian colonialism, where many cultures and religions have masculine energy and feminine energy defined outside of biological gender.

I see SJ as female coded because of how the fandom reacts/reacted to him. We don't got a lot of info on him, canon wise, at least not without heavy (and unreliable) bias. But there is a stark difference to how fandom treats him compared to the other men in the story.

And I don't mean in the sense of "he deserved what he got/he deserved so much better" discourse that surrounds him, but how fandom understands him.

Depending on where you fall, the degree of SJ's childhood trauma could range from demeaning slavery with a historically usual amount of abuse and demands to underage sexual abuse and torture. Regardless, the common thread is that men have control over his autonomy. Men (and nobility) dictate what he does, how he dresses, what he will receive, and how others percieve him. This is something SJ does not escape, even when he becomes a Peak Lord, although the degree has lessened by this time. He fails not just because of his actions, but due to the words and judgement of people who only see him on surface level and, thus, scrutinise his every action as "evidence" to their preconceived judgement.

And boy does fandom run with this!

And it makes sense because, a huge portion of danmei demographics are women... Women who understand all too well the dangers a negative statement can have on their livlihood.

This is why Shen Jiu is female coded, to me. Qui Jianluo, Wu Yanzi, Yue Qingyuan, Luo Binghe, even Shen Yuan, etc etc all, in some way, have taken his autonomy. QJL and WYZ did it with their abuse and power over him, YQY did it by undermining him and placating him (while allowing the bad rumours and his bad behaviours to persist), LBH through his revenge (literally crippled him), Shen Yuan quite literally takes over his body and has no regard for its treatment for most of the story.

In fandom, I think its telling that Qi Qingqi, Mu Qingfan, and Liu Qingge also feature as a prominent antaongist that contribute to Shen Jiu's abysmal reputation. Unfortunately, the three kinds of people women should feel protected by and safe with- other women, doctors, and those who uphold justice- are some of the main contributors to the problems they face. They aren't taken seriously, they're ostracised or put down, they're ignored or labeled as over emotional.

Its also telling that, for most fanfics/discussions/art/etc where Shen Jiu is "redeemed" or given a second chance, the main reason why he suceeds is because others listen to him. They let him have a voice and respect it. He is able to advocate for himself and not be torn down or turned away. And if he is, usually there's a man that stands by his side and acts as the "ally" or "bridge" that gets people taking him seriously.

Or, him being attached to a well-respected man is enough for people to change their opinions. Fandom can't help but reflect real life in their works.

So, with all that being said... I understand that there's going to be people who think this is a "bad take" because I rely so heavily on how the fandom portrays Shen Jiu, and that's fine. There will always be Bible-thumpers in every piece of media we consume, and they're here for good reason. But I consume stories for the feelings they evoke and the influence they have on others. People make connections, that's just what we do, and this is the connection I made.

[fuckedupwizard]

here's my possibly-controversial take on qijiu babytrapping: it only works one way, and that is shen jiu forcing yue qingyuan to get him pregnant.

let me explain why i think so. yue qingyuan wouldn't, under any circumstances, babytrap shen jiu. this is because he cares for shen jiu's freedom and autonomy way too much to do something like sabotage his birth control. but if yqy is the one capable of getting pregnant this still applies, because he'd see making shen jiu father a child against his will to be a betrayal of his freedom too (as he should, because like. it is lol) and wouldn't want to settle for having a child that is just a part of xiao jiu. i think he'd see it as a weak imitation and, again, a betrayal to love and care for something that isn't shen jiu if shen jiu doesn't want him.

shen jiu wouldn't want to babytrap yqy by getting him pregnant against his will because shen jiu is very possessive and also has no self-esteem. he'd probably assume that yqy could/would just take the baby and leave because why would he want to raise it around a terrible influence like shen qingqiu? however, if shen jiu gets pregnant, yqy would feel honour-and-guilt-bound to stay and support him because he's such a stupid good noble person and he'd be chained to him forever. this would still make sj miserable bc he'd feel like yqy was Only staying for the child and not because he has any love for shen jiu himself. but i still think it's the only plausible way a qijiu babytrap would happen... even though shen jiu is Not very fond of kids in general and 'having a baby to save the marriage' never works, paradoxically, i feel like qijiu are the only ones it possibly could work for? maybe the child forces them to talk it out when they're old enough... sorry kid, this shouldn't be on you... or maybe yqy realises that sj did this On Purpose and it must mean that a part of him wants something from yqy, even if it's just the security of being provided for...?

[horsegirlwarcrimes]

cannottt recall if you fw liushang or not but id love to hear how you think their relationship dynamic would be?? also id you do fw them do you have any plans to write something about them!!

i DO fw liushang!! i never really expected to but when i was writing WINRN i kept being like... hey.... why are they lowkey flirting w each other whenever they hang out....

tbh i think thats because LQG just strikes me as a guy who is always a little in love with his friends. obviously he's in love with SQQ in canon, but i imagine he was like that with YQY before that, and would be similar w SQH if they were close; he's a very tender and protective person who gives a lot of himself to his relationships

with SQH in particular, i think they would get along best if/when LQG realizes how smart SQH actually is, and learns to see him as more than a coward. LQG respects strength and bravery a great deal, which SQH goes out of his way to avoid embodying. however if LQG got past that (as he does with SQQ in canon) bc SQH did something to show him he has other strength, i could see them really vibing. SQH blabbing about his ideas and stresses to a quiet-but-listening LQG, and SQH swooping in to fix problems for LQG that he can't manage with his sword

i don't currently have plans to write anything for them in particular but listen... i can be swayed..... if anyone has some good ideas for them u can slide them my way... ( ´◕ ω◕`)+:｡ﾟ☆

[nibbelraz]

Does CQM sect knows how long SQH has worked for MBJ? YQY let's SQH come back (presumably because he is that good at his job?) but do they ever interrogate him? Do they have any idea that SQH has been working for MBJ for years? I just find it funny that from their perspective SQH betrayed them but in a way you could argue that SQH was never loyal to the sect. Yes, he was already part of the sect, but he was an outer disciple and while they don't know, SQH already knew he would one day work for MBJ. While he feared for his life he probably had already in his head that he would be loyal to Mobei, so he entered the sect knowing he would spy for him. From the beginning he joined the sect with dishonest notions. But other than SQQ does any other Peak Lord has any idea about this? Because honestly, how fucking scary and impressive that SQH did this 😂

I don't think it's ever stated how long they knew about Shang Qinghua being a traitor (My memory is absolutely horrible, so I could be wrong) However im sure they can pinpoint the time a demon killed a lot of disciples with Shang Qinghua being the only survivor and was missing for some days then they mightve connected the dots to how long he's been a spy for Mobei Jun. I also don't think they interrogate him either, they just kinda let him back in after all the shit that went down

Looking back into the novel, Yue Qingyuan does let him back but there really was no interrogation from what I can find

So YEAH HE REALLY JUST MANAGED TO GET AWAY WITH IT

[danmei-confessions]

"also SJ didn't abuse YQY, you're mixing up canon and fanon there."

OP, your first reply was right; I shouldn't have used the word fear to describe YQY not telling the truth to SJ. However, SJ was definitely abusive (mentally) to YQY. I don't really blame SJ for it considering what he went through, but he was abusive to those around him. He lashed out at YQY to leave him alone multiple times throughout the story (Qiu house, WPM, the IAC, and in the caves), despite YQY having good intentions (or even about to tell SJ what happened). Again, you're right that he wasn't scared. I apologize for the wording; it was like 2 a.m. LMAO. However, I still can't find the 'right' word, so I'll just explain it, sort of. I think the constant lashing out of SJ (for good reason, of course, but it still affects others) would make YQY not necessary afraid but more 'cautious' possibly to tell SJ the truth. Because if he's unable to even hold a 2-hour conversation with SJ, how could he tell him the truth when all SJ wants him to do is leave ALL THE TIME?

SJ definitely did abuse those around him who weren't his disciples based off of the ways he acts. For example, in the extras, the other peak lords were happy when they assumed he must've lost his memories (aka being switched in for SY) due to the way he acted. They thought he was possessed when he (SY) was just being... normally kind. It was also stated by SY multiple times that outside of LBH (like when he talks about SJ + QQQ, SJ + LGQ, SJ + SQH (in the extras, not by SY)).) that was not a good person. No one in SVSSS is, but with the way we KNOW SJ acts, it's pretty obvious that he's quick to get violent or lash out which *is* abusive behavior.

Besides this, OP thank you for letting me rant about this more. None of my friends have read SVSSS. I'd like to hear more on your side though.

.

[namwool]

genuine question: if corporal punishment was a common thing in ancient times, doesn't that justify qjl's treatment of sj too? slavery was normal at the time, after all

It physically pains me to answer this question. But yes.

While I dislike QJL's greatly to the point that it makes me want to strangle him, chop off his dick, shove it down his throat and make him shit his own balls, the historical context is important to understand why he was 'entitled' to abuse SJ.

We, modern people, who live differently from our great-great-great ancestors, in different times with different values, one in which we're taught that beating someone is wrong, is different from the beliefs of people from thousands of years ago.

Take for instance ancient Egypt, the Roman Empire etc. Owning slaves back then was the norm. If you were to ask a civilian of those empires, they wouldn't dwell too much on the morality of owning slaves. They wouldn't see anything wrong with it. Because it easied their work.

And if one group defeated another, it was a normal practice to enslave the defeated.

Back then, abuse and slavery were considered to be as natural as breathing. Just like slavery was prominent, so was domestic abuse.

Does this make it ok? No.

My parents lived through a period of time were corporeal punishments were a must-have in schools. Whenever they recount their times, telling me how school operated back them, I am always left speechless and horrified.

In my mind, the only one allowed to lift a hand on me is my mother. And that's it.

However, I have noticed the inconsistent views my parents have about teachers hitting students.

When they talk about their school years, recounting how severe and strict their teachers were, they dont view it as sever as I see it.

And that's where the conflicting views lie.

If a teacher ever lifted a hand on me, my mom would have brought hell on earth, but, at the same time, she doesn't think her teachers had been wrong when using a stick to strike the student's palm for not doing homework.

YQY and SJ himself, despite having experienced slavery, dont address it as much. Which is a clear indicator that they too believe it to be normal. Not even SY, someone who came from the 'modern' world, seems to be affect by the concept of slavery. Let's remember that while exploring SJ's memories he said something along the lines of seeing a live action of a murder, not once addressing the severe abuse SJ suffered at the hands of QJL.

Am I saying that slavery and abuse are normal?

Fuck no.

No one deserves to be beaten up. Shen Jiu didn't deserve the beatings, nor did Luo Binghe, nor anyone else.

Slavery is a disgusting practice, which deserves to be punished accordingly. Slavery ruined many people's livelihood, and caused generational trauma. And we see that with Shen Jiu as well, whose personal trauma ended up affecting LBH as well.

However, if people are going to excuse LBH's inhumane behavior, torture and savage dismemberment of SJ, turning him into a limbless state, I might as well excuse SJ's abuse toward LBH, while totally ignoring QJL's existance.

[circus-complex]

shen jiu + shen yuan swap au idea

ok so an AU when shen yuan is the original owner of shen jiu's body, and shen jiu is the og owner of shen yuan's body.

shen yuan went through everything shen jiu did, but instead of taking on a "I went through something horrible, and since you are similar to me i'll make you feel the same" view for luo binghe, he takes on a "I went through something horrible, and since you are similar i'll make sure you never feel this way"

this makes luo binghe develop a crush on him a bit earlier, and luo binghe is generally more stable. sqq is known for being kind, forgiving, and generous. he treats all his disciples well, and equally. he has a good relationship with most, if not all, the peak lords.

shen jiu reads PIDW, but unlike sy who fawned over lbh, he hates him. hates him with every fiber of his being. he isn't even sure why, lbh just pisses him off in every way. most of the characters do, actually. only nyy is good! lbh should of ended up with her, or shl, or any of the girls! he would of loved it if lbh built a harem up! but no. he ended up with his stupid teacher. and yqy - he likes him.

i have two ways to take this idea

Option A: so when sj transmigrates, everyone is confused, but in a new way. his complements, which used to be kind, now have a slight edge to them. he treats lbh with such hatred, he develops a grudge with lqg, he favors mf and nyy (mostly nyy). and once he unfreezes the OOC feature OH BOY! in the og book sqq would protect lbh when the ridge opens, but lbh falls anyway, and sqq mourns him for five years. this time however, sj pushes lbh in himself.

naturally, lbh has no clue whats going on. at first, he thought sqq just was in a bad mood bc of his fever, but then it started to seem personal. sqq would beat him, verbally and physically. what happened? so lbh goes down this other path, one where he blames himself for everything and works his ass of to please sj, possibly dying in the process. if he doesn't, he's just miserable and has unintentionally become sj's unstable minion, doing everything he can to please him but always failing. in the end, lbh kills himself and sj after he's driven to a qi deviation

Option B: same thing as option a, only sj plays the role of sqq MUCH better. he is kind, but is secretly planning to take lbh down. he follows the course of the book, winning lbh's favour, unfreezes the OOC function, and slowly becomes a little meaner. but he molds lbh to be his. in a cruel, twisted, jealous, slightly romantic way. he molds him to follow his every order. molds him to the perfect for his plans. molds him to hate his sect, but love sj. helps him uncover his demonic heritage under the mask of wanting his disciple to be true to himself and discover his full potential!, but secretly wanting to use it to his advantage. and he does.

he succeeds, taking down most of cang qiong, leaving only him, lbh, nyy, yqy, and sqh. he left nyy and yqy because he adored them in his past life, and sqh because he wants to torture him for all eternity for making that book (sucks tho bc sqh has mbj on his side so he can't do anything till he gets lbh to take mbj down). so yea. sj is just pulling lbh's strings behind the scenes, even going so far as too get married and do everything with him if it gains him another advantage. he's extremely emotionally manipulative, and he's smart enough to be subtle about it so no one will notice. and it kinda just ends with lbh being his puppet. lbh may be the head of the world, but sj is the neck turning his different ways. and so yea super toxic yaoi

[spokspsps]

not really svsss spoilers but ill hide it anyways also its about parallels between qijiu and bingqiu

i think theres. some sort of parallel between the relationship of yqy and sj and then the relationship between lbh and sy. im going to say their shipnames for convenience but to clarify i need u to understand both of their loves go beyond friendship and brotherhood and romance okay i am very adamant about this especially for yqy and sj okay

qijiu love eahc other so much but isntead one bites and screams and kicks and the other takes it all because he thinks he deserves it but he isnt thinking about what the other deserves about what shen jiu deserves which is closure which is answer

but they love each other so much i think it goes beyond brotherhood and friendship and romance i think their love is something innate and deeply rooted in them and they cant run away from it

this post captures it exactly. they lvoed each other so mucuh. they never stopped. but it didnt change anything. they never reconciled they never talked familiarly again and yet they loved ecah other in their deaths yqy died because he needed to avenge sj and sj waited for years years fucking years for yqy to give him a goddamn answer but he never did but he still waited he waited when he was in slavery and he waited at the sect and he waited forever

however. bingqiu is different. the love did change everything. it changed so much (probably because as low as sy's eq is he is still not as mentally ill as qijiu)

sy DIED because he was enraged at lbh's fate sy spent his entire time in PIDW trying his fucking best to make lbh happy to make his life good and he still expected to die but he did it anyways because he loves his stupid little murder guy so much even before he was a stupid murder guy BECAUSE HE LOVES LBH

the love changed everything. it took an incredibly heteronormative toxic masculinity fan service story and made it into something full of love and still fan service but loving fan service okay

do you see what im saying here man

[danmeiconfession]

god i cant wait for this fandom to get reading comprehension when it comes to literally anything related to shen jiu. was shen jiu abused physically, and probably sexually? yes. did luo bingge do a lot of heinous shit as an adult? absolutely.

however. this doesn't erase the fact that the reason luo bingge is the way he is is BECAUSE of shen jiu. you take shen jiu out of the picture. congratulations, that is entirely what created bingmei. shen jiu being abused made him horrible, and thats also what happened with luo bingge. its a cycle of abuse that started with qiu jianluo. thats the point. an entire fucking theme of the book is that love breaks cycles of abuse and we can only improve as people if we have love. thats an entire theme of the book.

anyways. i adore shen jiu. i relate to shen jiu in certain ways. i've spent a lot of time analyzing him because i love him. he's my fave svsss character. thats why i hate the sterilized version of him so many people talk about. yes, he abused disciples other than luo binghe. and while him killing qiu jianluo was understandable, 1. qiu jianluo was 19 when he died 2. the whole thing was horrible for qiu haitang who deserved none of it 3. the guards and other men deserved to die as much as ming fan and the disciples of cang qiong mountain sect when luo bingge burned down the sect. every part of the cycle escalates the violence, the wife who kills luo bingge will likely escalate things even further.

also leave yue qingyuan alone, the only thing he did wrong was allow shen jiu to abuse luo binghe, but yall dont really seem to care about that. qi-ge has trauma too.

https://twitter.com/faelicy/status/1242276073301102593?t=fEtr5thzCsX5YJsqM4Iimg&s=19

Bingmei and Bingge are not as different as you believe,Bingmei SA-ed SY, Bingmei tortured and human-sticked OPM (he deserves it but), killed multiple cultivator and chocked a woman.

& "circle of abuse ended because of power of love" isn't right either, Bingmei continued the circle of abuse he just hasn't tortured SY!SQQ but instead he tortured OPM.

Not to mention SJ abusing multiple disciples has never been confirmed (I don't trust SY's POV on SJ & LQG is also abusing disciplines but no one says anything), him killing other men in Qiu house is a self defense (maybe he even had a mental breakdown)

And YQY's only crime is him not taking SJ's suspicious seriously. (SQH)

[zykamiliah]

i thought the mdzs translation was the only one with an inaccurate character guide but it seems svsss is not exempt from it, however small the inaccuracies are.

As Sect Leader of the foremost major cultivation sect, Yue Qingyuan normally lives up to his responsibilities as a levelheaded leader and respected authority. But when his shidi, Shen Qingqiu, is the one asking for a favor, he can never deny the man anything…though this clear favoritism wasn’t enough to keep the scum villain from causing Yue Qingyuan’s death in the original Proud Immortal Demon Way.

okay, first thing: the wording in this section it's just... like it's a bit venomous? Specially because it mirrors a section from original Shen Qingqiu's summary:

Shen Qingqiu got away with his misdeeds under the implicit permission of Sect Leader Yue Qingyuan, but the sect leader’s favoritism couldn’t protect him from his body becoming a permanent host for the transmigrated Shen Yuan.

I just don't like it. It's like saying "hah, not even his YQY's favoritism could save SJ from being replaced/SY transmigrating into his body." Those two things are related! And to me it looks like it places the blame on YQY, that he should have notice that SJ was gone, what with how much he "favored" him.

I can't decide if the person who wrote it dislikes SJ or YQY, but it's probably the former. This is in such poor taste, and frankly quite unnecessary.

now onto the other part of the YQY character section that bothered me:

Though the transmigrated Shen Qingqiu is no longer the intended recipient of this favor, Yue Qingyuan becomes something of a guide to him in the early days of his transmigration—even if Shen Qingqiu keeps debasing his sect leader a bit by mentally relegating him to the role of quest-giving NPC.

This is such an inaccurate and unnecessary exaggeration *facepalms* SQQ thinks that YQY is behaving like a NPC exactly one time and the second time he promptly corrects himself! And this happened during the Skinner mission, and never again did SQQ thought of YQY in those terms.

After receiving the mission:

Shen Qingqiu agreed, still smiling, but he couldn’t help giving Yue Qingyuan two extra glances.

Zhangmen-shixiong, your current role, it’s getting a bit too much like a quest-giving NPC…

After coming back from the mission:

Previously, Shen Qingqiu had thought Zhangmen-shixiong’s existence was basically that of a quest-giving NPC. But as soon as he entered the mountain gates, this impression disappeared without a trace.

This are the first and last times he thinks of YQY as a NPC. He stopped thinking that YQY behave like that because YQY did more that give him missions: he was caring and considerate, like a doting older brother, and SQQ likes him a lot for that.

Character sections should be concise and impartial. Not whatever this is *sighs*

[mxtxfanatic]

Hello fav MDZS meta blogger! I come with a question about SV. I'm writing a fic about Yue Qingyuan and Shen Jiu, and I've been having some trouble handling the whole "SJ never knew that YQY went back for him and got nerfed by Xuan Su" thing. Do you have any thoughts about how Shen Jiu would react/if his choices would change if he found out fairly late in PIDW canon vs a little earlier (say, post-SJ throwing LBH into the abyss vs around the time they became peak lords)? Most discussions/metas I've seen go the "if only SJ knew, he wouldn't have been an abusive teacher/ruined his students' cultivation/tried to kill LBH etc" route, and then end up going down the "so everything SJ ever did wrong is YQY's fault actually" route, which I don't agree with, so...I feel like I need to hear someone else's thoughts about this!

Aww, hello anon! 💖

So, I've actually mused on this before, here! I think the only crucial time for the confession to have an effect on Shen Jiu is actually right when he and Yue Qingyuan reunite as teens, however, I don't think that the timing actually matters at all. I also had a good back-and-forth with @/zykamilah on this post about it, if you want to get another perspective on it. In short, I, personally, do not think that Shen Jiu would have a wholly and unambiguously positive reaction to the confession no matter when it happens, and I also believe that were Yue Qingyuan to be forced to give it, that would be the complete end of their farce of a friendship.

Now, onto how the confession would affect how Shen Jiu treats others: at best, he would remain the same, at worst, he would become a more horrible abuser. People who think that the confession is supposed to be a cure-all for Shen Jiu's shit personality must have forgotten that Shen Jiu was a jealous, cruel, and violent child before he was enslaved. The enslavement exacerbated those terrible traits but it did not create them, and Shen Jiu, himself, did not consider those traits unsavory enough to work on them. He is perfectly alright with being a little shit, and the confession would change absolutely nothing about that, especially given that it is an entirely separate issue from Shen Jiu's asshole personality.

[chuckduckling]

We walk in his large footsteps. 🫡

Of course, fandom funposts aside, anyone can hate a character if they want to, just as anyone can stan a character if they want to. We all have our own personal feelings, interpretations, baggage, etc.

That said, as a certified YQY simp, I have my own thoughts on some of the takes I've seen about hating YQY in defense of SJ (some in the notes of this post, some I've come across elsewhere).

I don't expect to change any minds, these are just my own thoughts:

Take #1: YQY defends everyone except SQQ

It's not as though YQY never disagrees with SQQ or argues with him...however, this take seems to assume that, whenever YQY defends SY!SQQ in main story, he wouldn't do the same for SJ!SQQ.

I don't really buy this assumption, especially since the sect meeting in the Airplane extras "definitively proved" to everyone that SQQ wasn't possessed (and obviously, nobody but SY knew about The System).

But even ignoring all those moments in the main story where YQY simps for SY!SQQ, we still have:

YQ defending SJ to SW by saying "that wasn't bullying, Shiwu, Xiao-Jiu was just joking around," even though he just ran over because he saw SJ about to threaten SW with a brick

YQY never revealing that SJ killed those innocent cultivators with WYZ, and never bringing it up again in any other scene

YQY snapping at LQG when LQG insulted SJ in front of him, and LQG storming off to avoid being lectured (which implies to me that YQY has lectured LQG about it before)

So, even with SJ!SQQ, we still get scenes where YQY either defends SQQ, or excuses his actions.

I also see this assumption that YQY never attempted to defend SJ when he was arrested by Bingge in the PIDW timeline...but we never actually see how the arrest or the trial went down? Anything about YQY's reaction to the arrest, or what he did (or didn't) try to do at the trial, is pure speculation.

For example, my own assumption is that Bingge arranged for SJ's arrest to happen when the sect leader was too far away to do anything about it, since that'd be the smart thing to do. He also probably roped in the other three powerful sects so that it'd be harder for CQMS to interfere in the trial.

Take #2: YQY didn't try hard enough to rescue SJ

I think a lot of YQY's behavior makes sense when you look at how impulsive he was when he was young, how his impulsivity led to many failures, and how he then over-corrected by restraining himself. He even describes this exact issue during his confession to SY.

Pulling from this post: what YQY learned in his formative years was that a reckless rescue was not only just as bad as no rescue at all, it was worse.

If we're talking about how YQY didn't personally go to steal back SY!SQQ's body from LBH...well, I have my own theories about his inaction in this post.

(If you don't feel like clicking the link: basically, there's textual evidence that YQY was training in seclusion while SY!SQQ's body was kidnapped, and this could have been another of his attempts to not act impulsively.)

Take #3: YQY didn't tell SJ the truth because he didn't care about his feelings

Tbh, I think YQY was more traumatized by his experiences than gets acknowledged by fandom. I think "guy with communication issues stemming from trauma" can apply not just to YQY, but to SJ and LBH as well. All of them inherited maladaptive coping mechanisms from their fucked up childhoods.

(Meanwhile, SY's communication problems stem more from his "transmigrated book reader" and "held hostage by The System" issues)

Okay those are all the thoughts I had post over goodbye 👋

you can’t claim to be a Shen Jiu defender, and hate on Yue Qingyuan at the same time, because like

he’s the original SJ defender, he was doing what we do before we were