#you can still call us ableist and sanist all you want

[beelzebubsbois]

I just need to say this because it's been on my mind. We still believe a LOT of what we have said in the past. But what we don't believe in is seeking out and bullying people because of shit that they believe.

I believe that a LOT of Endos are shitty people. I believe that MOST humans in general are shitty people because FUCK people are horrible and it's basically ingrained in us as a species, selfishness, self centered ideologies, blah blah blah I could write a whole essay on how much we hate people as a species but that's for a different post (different account tbh lol)

But not all Endos are just straight-up delusional. I see the flaw in saying that, and how it can be harmful to people with actual delusions (I mean not really, but people are gonna keep calling me "sanist" [which is a WILD term lmao] either way) sure, some endos may be delusional, but many may just be groomed into thinking that way or just are generally misinformed.

Think whatever you want of us, but we needed to put this out here. We're not apologizing, because really we did nothing wrong, just voiced our opinion in a way that was... harmful in some people's eyes.

And let this be known because fuck this is getting on my last nerve, we are not, in any way, shape, or form, a supporter/friend/follower of AspenFrost. Fuck her and her attention seeking misinformation spreading. We could not give LESS of a fuck about her opinions and the content she is making now. She used to show opinions that we thought could be relatable and thought she would continue to be a streamer or content creator that we enjoyed, but no, she's a hypocritical bitch that we are disgusted to have ever supported. Fuck her and all of her system.

[adolfusraptor1985]

Very long post, but PLEASE read

Saw someone very angerly saying some absolute bullshit about physical nonhumans and related things in a post. I promptly blocked the user, but I feel as though I should address some of the things they were saying for the sake of spreading accurate information.

Statement One:

The very first thing this individual stated was that believing you are physically nonhuman is "not good" and that it is "clinical lycanthropy". While it's true that some physical nonhumans do in fact struggle with clinical zoanthropy, lycanthropy, etc., not all of them do. There are other reasons to consider oneself physically nonhuman besides delusion. I also want to point how this user made a very clear statement that clinical lycanthropy (assuming they mean zoanthropy) is a bad thing and should not be accepted or normalized in the therian community. Reoccurring statements like these throughout the post were blatantly sanist and ableist. I don't believe in actively encouraging delusions, but the idea that all delusions are bad and require immediate treatment doesn't sit well with me. This user acted as though anyone with delusions should not be accepted or even interacted with.

Statement Two:

The second point they brough up was the concept of "losing control" during shifts. Once again, they immediately claimed that this is "a problem" and again, "not normal therianthropy". While I once again understand that there could be some underlying issues causing oneself to not have control during shifting, I don't believe it's any reason to act negatively towards those people. The way this user equates "not normal" to "bad" is bizarre. It's one thing to encourage people to get help, but it's another to claim their experience is invalid and should not have a place in the community. I personally do not have full control during shifting due to it being an issue related to dissociation, but that doesn't make me a bad person or an invalid therian.

Statement Three:

This next part starts to get a little wild, but I'll try my best to dissect it. The user went on to state that they do not say they are not human. Which... is fine and all, except for the fact they made it clear that they believe no one should claim to not be human; that it's alright to say that you are [insert theriotype] but not that you aren't human. And this just makes no fucking sense to me. Plenty of therian who aren't even physically nonhuman still say they aren't human. They then try to make the most bullshit statement of their whole post which reads as follows:

"And don't pull up with that bullshit of "it's like saying 'oh trans women-'" NO IT'S FUCKING NOT. Ur opinion is fucking invalid"

I know exactly what fucking statement they are referencing here, because it's something I have personally written on this blog and stand by strongly. What they were going for was the old "it's like saying trans women are physically (I use the phrase biologically) men". WHICH IT ABSOLUTELY FUCKING IS! As someone who is transgender and doesn't have a problem using the phrase transspecies, I can say with confidence that someone calling me "physically female" is just like calling me "physically human". Just because you were born a certain way does not mean that's what you really are. There are plenty of nonhumans out there who do not identify as human and do not want to be referred to as such, and that is perfectly valid. Why? Because you can't dictate other people's identities. The fact that this user tried to claim otherwise is mind boggling.

Conclusion:

First of all, there's no way the user in question was above the age of 16. I have never seen such misinformation, ableism, gatekeeping, and poorly worded arguments from someone who isn't an uneducated minor.

Secondly, the fact that people make mental health something to be afraid of is sickening. This person is the reason why so many people with psychological issues don't feel comfortable reaching out. It's people like this that make it hard for those with mental illness to find a sense of community.

Lastly, it's startling how quickly people will hate on things simply because it doesn't make sense to them, especially when they themselves have identities that are misunderstood. Like- at what point can you just start taking people's word about how they identify? At what point do you realized you don't have to understand someone's experience to respect it? At what point do you realize you can't know what someone else truly experiences?

As a bit of a closing note, I want to point out that the user in question is also very strongly anti-endo, further proving their immaturity and lack of understanding and respect. My advice? Stay away from these people. They will never understand.

If you would like to see the post in reference for yourself, here is a link. But please, do not harass this user. Block and move on. If you would like to write a counter point like mine either as a reblog to that post or separately, by all means do so. Just don't start an internet feud, alright?

[agirldying]

tw ableism?

i'm sorry it's kind of random but it's hard finding resources on this and i'm not sure where to get informed

i don't use the word because of its bad connotations but isn't "psychopath" just descriptive of a set of behavior rather than a diagnosis? is the word bad on its own/outdated or is it bad because of misuse?

also i wondered if using the word "narcissist" as an adjective is ableist. i've stopped using it altogether but i was wondering if it was along the line of calling something "depressing" without really have depression (the mood disorder) in mind, or if npd a narcissism are actually used interchangeably and not two separate words

thank you for reading and i understand if you don't want to answer that's okay

Hey anon,

I was writing this but then my page goofed and erased everything so argh. But basically I was saying that:

Merriam Webster defines as psychopaths as "a mentally unstable person, especially : a person having an egocentric and antisocial personality marked by a lack of remorse for one's actions, an absence of empathy for others, and often criminal tendencies." This article also says that psychopaths are "someone who is callous, unemotional, and morally depraved. While the term isn’t an official mental health diagnosis, it is often used in clinical and legal settings."

Psychopathy can be used to describe disorders such as Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Antisocial Personality Disorder, and Borderline Personality Disorder. I say this because the aforementioned article says that psychopathic traits typically include:

Antisocial behavior

Narcissism

Superficial charm

Impulsivity

Callous, unemotional traits

Lack of guilt

Lack of empathy

So you are right in that psychopathy isn't a diagnosable mental illness, but in my perspective it still has harmful implications that demonize people with mental illness, specifically those with personality disorders. Especially because I think we can be quick to call abusers psychopaths without realizing that we're being sanist when we say that.

The same goes for Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and liberally calling people narcissists. While I believe you can have narcissistic traits and not have NPD, I still don't think it's necessarily respectful or appropriate to call people narcissists due to the stigma behind it.

Another thing about NPD is that personality disorders are trauma-based. From my understanding, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but NPD is a response to neglect and/or emotional abuse. It is a way to cope with being made to feel worthless. Not necessarily saying it's a healthy coping mechanism, but it's a coping mechanism nonetheless.

I think society is oblivious to the fact that people with personality disorders like NPD are more likely victims of trauma than perpetuators thereof. I feel that society desperately wants to group all abusers together in order to be able to discriminate against them, when in reality the only thing that binds abusers together is their abusive tendencies. Otherwise they could be men, women, nonbinary, cis, trans, black, white, asian, hispanic, ablebodied, disabled, mentally ill, or neurotypical. Abusers know no demographic. They can look like anyone, and can be any kind of person.

With that rant aside, I feel that the liberal use of the term "depressing" is incomparable to the liberal use of the term "narcissistic" because the term "depressing" doesn't have the same antagonizing implication as the latter. The thing that sets the two apart is that "narcissistic" is used derogatorily, whereas "depressing" tends not to. People more often conflate "narcissistic" with abusive than "depressing" with abusive.

I hope I answered your questions adequately. Let me know if there's anything here you want to comment on, ask me to clarify, or if you need anything else.

[boiled-dennis]

i am enjoying seeing people speak critically about the show.. discussion of this sort should be more welcome. (this is a long post)

one thing i really don't like is how rcg use words like "psychopath" or "sociopath" to explain the characters' bigoted behaviour. aside from the obvious sanism (which i'll get to), it just oversimplifies everything. it implies that bigotry isn't learned/taught, or that you have to be a Certain Way in order to be capable of bigoted thoughts and actions. anyone can have dehumanising beliefs about other kinds of people. "nice" or "polite" people can be pieces of shit too. bigotry is often not loud or physically violent.

for them to continuously use the terms psychopath and sociopath, it just furthers the incredibly dangerous idea that people who get those labels attributed to us (those of us with ASPD) have some kind of inherent "evil". to use it as an explanation for bigoted beliefs also means you're calling a whole group of extremely misunderstood and demonised mentally ill people Racist, transphobic, homophobic, ableist, sexist, violent people.

with this logic, you are basically removing any accountability. if you're saying "they're psychopaths, they're bound to be shitty about that because they don't care about anyone", then you are actively erasing the responsibility any person has to recognising their own damaging, bigoted behaviour and making changes.

something i'd like to make clear is that a lack of caring (apathy) is neutral.. it is also a symptom that cannot be controlled and can often cause distress to the person experiencing it. you cannot, in good faith, apply some moral status to that. however.... actively hating people for who they are, and saying or doing bigoted things is a conscious choice, no matter how familiar a person is with behaving that way.

if people want to try to be The Most Socially Aware Person about this topic, then they need to recognise that the concepts of psychopathy and sociopathy have no validity and exist only for racist and sanist reasons. people love being conscious of other forms of bigotry in the name of "progressivism", but still cling so strongly to the idea of psychiatry being reliable and untainted by oppressive systems.

all of this also applies to when rcg or other people describe the characters as narcissists. all that does is demonise highly stigmatised and misunderstood mentally ill people, and attribute bigotry to mental illness. people with narcissistic personality disorder are not more likely to be abusive. i'm sure you've heard by now, but mentally ill people are way more likely to be abused, than be abusers. this is even truer for people with personality disorders.

people often claim that it won't hurt "real" psychopaths or sociopaths if those labels/collections of traits are used as an insult, because we "don't feel anything anyway", but believe me it actively puts us in danger when you continuously make these false connections between us and everything wrong with the world. (also it is literally impossible for any human to not feel emotions at all. those of us with ASPD may feel muted emotions, and this symptom often causes distress- we certainly do not enjoy it)

people might say "it's not that deep", but i'd say it only seems that way to them because they're not the one who gets affected by it. generally this issue just reeks of liberalism, ironically they tend to be the ones who are "apathetic" to other peoples problems, just because it doesn't affect them.

if we're going to pretend that the show and rcg's intentions are motivated purely by #activism then you gotta be even more critical of it. i actually love the show (and in many ways it is one of my favourite pieces of media), but i also hate or disagree with a lot of what is in it and intentions that were put into it.. i don't think i could ever Not critically view a piece of media that i love. personally i think it also cheapens any complex commentary or characterisation they're trying to make, if they keep summarising it as "the show about narcissistic psychopaths".

at the end of the day, rcg are generally not in positions where they have to really think about how marginalised people live and what affects us. to quote mac, they are straight, white, cis males. privilege is a genuine barrier.

this article talks about the subject in a simple, straightforward way (just a warning, it covers heavy topics and has mentions of uncensored ableist slurs)