#you can disagree of course

[thegingerlikes]

Before I begin, @therese-lokidottir, @ripfic, I have read and understand your interpretations. I'd like to make clear I don't think Thor was a great brother: neither of them were, to be honest.

First, I will address ripfic's comment and clarify myself: “Thor has changed into the brother Loki has always wanted” I understand from the first and second movies that Loki wanted Thor to be more responsible, smarter, and more cunning (and more understanding of Loki). I believe Thor did change in these ways, making him a more appealing brother to Loki. This is the context of my statement. "Loki became more empathetic person” After the events of Avengers, Loki works with Thor to save his girlfriend. When he takes the throne of Asgard, he's not a dictator like he was on Earth, and during Ragnarok he comes to help when he could have escaped. He isn't fully redeemed by any means-- he's a trickster (antihero?) and we love him for it-- but he is arguably more empathetic than in Thor, when he literally tries to kill his brother and commit genocide.

Now, I'll try to reply to therese-lokidottir as concisely as I can.

"so what your saying is--" I could cut you off at the pass here and say "no, that's not what I'm saying" and leave it, but I'm going to approach your points in good faith.

"Thor didn't see Loki because it would have been hard and Thor didn't want to deal with that. Well, Loki went to see Thor knowing it would be hard and still offered to help." The problem here is the two scenes are taken out of context. Why was Loki in prison? Because he'd led an army to invade a world, resulting in the deaths of many people. Thor had an emotional connection to the reason why Loki was in prison, so he has a dilemma about visiting him. Why was Thor in prison? Because their sister had thrown them out of the Bifrost onto Sakar, and Thor had been forced into slavery while Loki hadn't. Loki has no emotional connection to Thor being in prison, so he has no dilemma about visiting him. Why is Thor mad at Loki while in the Sakari dungeon? Because he just found out Loki is alive (again), sort-of banished their father, and now Odin has died. Loki isn't outwardly sad about Odin's death (which is fine, he was a bad person), but Thor is mourning and has little patience for Loki.

"Loki went to see Thor in the hope that maybe he understand the pain of being lied to his whole. Life has proved to Loki that he is loved conditionally and yet in the end he'll always help Thor." I saw that as a bit of a sardonic line, but you make a good point. I agree that Loki has struggled with where he belongs and being loved, as many adoptees do. "In the end" indeed. I don't think that could be said about Avengers Loki, but I do think Loki has grown as a character, showing love for others and Thor even though they might not in return. That's a good character arc.

"Why does the odinfam get credit for "loving" Loki even though didn't provide the care he needed but Loki never gets anything even though he's proven time and again that he really does love his family."

I don't give them credit. The whole family is flawed, it's a Shakespearean tragedy. I would argue they do love him, but none of them show it well. I do want to point out, that Loki's tragic past does not justify his actions as a villain. And as a villain, he does need to be punished for the pathos of the story (including jail time). But I'm glad Loki got a redemption arc (which he did need) because he's such a compelling character.

"Loki is willing to put in the work Thor just wants Loki to do what he wants." I contest that both brothers have put in work. The whole point of the first film was Thor learning to be a better person. When Loki tries to kill him, Thor apologizes. Both brothers are trying, but not in the way the other wants them to, which causes conflict. What I've always liked about the Thor and Loki dynamic is I can always see where both of them are coming from.

"Thor suspects that someone else is behind Loki's actions," Citation needed. I rewatched that scene in Avengers: neither Loki nor Thor suggest a third party behind the scenes. Loki only says "it can't be stopped."

"but when Loki says he can't stop Thor doesn't even bother looking in to it," "But when Loki says he can't stop"-- Thor smiles and says they can do it, together. Then Loki stabs him.

"not even as a strategical move in case the person behind it might cause more problems." That is one of Thor's flaws: not planning ahead. You see him get better at it over the films, an improvement Loki likes, btw. But again, I don't think Thor had any idea Loki was working for someone in Avengers. Maybe he should have, but he didn't.

"Nope, just leave Loki on the floor to rot and never talks to him because it might be hard and so why bother."

"Never" is a bit strong. I think Loki is in jail maybe 2 weeks before Thor breaks him out. Is 2 weeks long enough to process a beloved family member coming back from the dead, committing war crimes, and trying to kill you, all of which they are outwardly unrepentant for? To be fair to Loki, I don't think he expected Thor to forgive him without a little persuasion.

Loki does go to visit Thor immediately on Sakar but, again, Loki isn't angry with Thor at the time.

Before I conclude, a short explanation of my understanding of Thanos and Loki. From the films (I'm not counting supplementary material or interviews), we know Loki ended up working for Thanos and Thanos is not nice to him. We don't know to what extent. We see in the Avengers he can cause pain from afar, not that he can control Loki's actions. From what I can remember, Loki took a lot of joy in attacking Earth, and expected to rule it. And I haven't seen all of the Loki show, but I don't think he ever tells his family that Thanos hurt him, and they didn't know to ask. Thor doesn't even know Thanos exists until Infinity War. So I can't say they neglected Loki in this way, because his adopted family literally had no idea it happened.

In conclusion, I love the Thor and Loki dynamic. I love them both separately, but they're at their best when they're together: and not with Thor ruling over Loki or vice versa, but as equals. I hope we get to see more of that in live action somehow. While Odin was a bad dad and Frigga was arguably passive, Thor's flaws are presented as flaws and he grows through them, as Loki does. Though he's not great at it, Thor tries to love and forgive and understand Loki. Loki also loves Thor, and though he doesn't always show it, when he does he does it with a grand gesture for all to see, which is cute.

TL;DR: Loki and Thor are flawed, fun characters. Loki has a tragic past and becomes a villain, then a hero. Thor is raised as a warrior, becomes a hero, then undergoes immense amounts of tragedy. I don't see the point of pitting them against each other, especially when the characters themselves don't want that.

Dark World: Thor presumably doesn’t visit Loki in solitary confinement for a year, until he absolutely has to. He blames him, cuts ties of bonding over lost mother, threatens him, and is just there to use Loki’s skills because there was literally no one else.

Ragnarok: Loki visits Thor in his populated jail cell on day 1 at risk to his own reputation, bonds over lost father, offers Thor help at the cost of his own safety…

[forgetful-nerd]

I’m absolutely fascinated how TMNT 2003, TMNT 2012, and ROTTMNT establish who is the initial “best fighter” among the turtles and it has been a different turtle for each series.

For 2003 TMNT, it’s Leonardo who is the only one to beat Master Splinter’s exercise.

For TMNT 2012, it’s Raph who wins a sparagainst all of his brothers

And for ROTTMNT, it’s Donnie who holds his own against Baron Draxum

It would be awesome if TOTTMNT continued this trend and established Mikey as their best fighter.

[iswearimahuman]

one of my favorite things about the dbd show (though this is the fandom a lot too) is it saw the yaoi tropes of feminine character x masculine character and putting them into strict gender roles and said what if we flipped that on it’s head? Yeah sure Charles is the brawn but Edwin went thru 70 years in hell he’s no wimp. And yeah Charles is more physical and all but he never gets all macho toxic about it, and he’s allowed to break down, he’s allowed to cry. and the fandom responded so well in kind! One of my major gripes with some fandoms is that it tends to place very heteronormative roles upon a same sex couple. (esp when its mlm though that might just be me not being in as many wlw fandoms). But there’s pretty much none of that here, both characters are allowed to have depth and be emotional. Idk it’s just kinda nice.

[evermorepeyton]

64 quotes and maaaany comments acting like this person actually murdered someone or something pls

[aquickstart]

ok sure i'll talk about farleigh start. i'll talk about his tragedy of never being enough as it were and then having to deal with fucking oliver. sure. disclaimer: it's about class (and race) and the horrible reality of the rich. the horrible reality of living as farleigh.

another disclaimer: i'm white! and poc definitely pick up on everything i'm talking about here as it is, and better. i was and am specifically interested in farleigh vs. oliver but it's impossible to examine without considering race. definitely let me know if anything abt this sucks!

farleigh and oliver are similar. it's annoying because every intruder that is not himself is annoying, partly because felix's attention swaying from farleigh is dangerous; there is always a threat of being discarded, even if no precedent existed. the potential is terrifying.

but you'd think he's seen this before, every summer (if venetia is telling the truth) or at least often enough to learn to recognize it fast, so he should know this will pass. part of it is i think still the deep anxiety, and i think he hated every boy that was there before, and it is sort of routine.

but definitely a huge factor in farleigh's annoyance is the fact that he's a biracial (black for cattons, that's all they see) man in a white rich household. he's alert and exhausted all the time. of course he's angry at oliver, regardless of whether he's the first to crash at saltburn for the summer or the fifty-first.

but the important thing is this.

farleigh is very jealous of and angry and pissed at oliver because farleigh sees all the similarities between them. outsider, in financial trouble, whatever it is, in need of cattons; and yet oliver is preferred. and farleigh seems to be the only one to really consider it. felix does not pick up on the hint when farleigh brings up the birthday party vs. his mother. felix's clumsy "different or... anything like that" is as much about race as it is about class, of course. the "we've done all that we can" bit is felix absolving himself of guilt because surely they had, surely the mysterious collective cattons that he's not really part of had tried all they could do. to him, farleigh is different from oliver, because farleigh has been helped. felix is rich and white and twofold uncomfortable with farleigh, even if he's nice about it, even if he genuinely enjoys his company; he doesn't look too close at farleigh because he feels too guilty to come too close. and farleigh can't do anything about it. he can't nice himself into it. the fucking tragedy of him is that he's never enough in the world of the ultra-rich white, even if (especially because!) he's born into it.

farleigh is very pissed at oliver because farleigh also sees all the differences between them. you know who can be nice poor white enough to fit in? fucking oliver. felix says "just be yourself, they'll love you" when oliver first moves in. farleigh was also probably told the same thing, and felix also probably believed that farleigh could just be himself, but even if the cattons were magically not racist at all (impossible), it wouldn't make a difference to farleigh. he would still self-censor, keep in check, be in dangerous waters (because racism is not just about the individual, but about the system). we see that he'd won himself leeway by years of trial and error by the way he speaks to the family, but it's still within the boundaries of acceptable, built by the cattons. he's part of them because they allow it, and farleigh is very, very aware.

the annoying thing is oliver can be himself. like, truly, genuinely, he can just be. and farleigh can't help but envy that.

as a side note, oliver is obviously jealous of farleigh in the beginning as well, because regardless of the reality of farleigh's situation, he was born into it, and hence, at least in oliver's mind, has his position solidified. oliver's whole thing is unquenchable thirst and hunger for whatever and everything the cattons have (including themselves!). he wishes to have been a catton from birth. to oliver, at first, there's nothing farleigh can really do to lose it. and until he figures out the cattons completely, he can't help but envy that.

but i think farleigh senses something different about oliver early on. at least on the level of the text, we have "you're almost passing [for] a real, human boy", which is so important because farleigh is the first to point out oliver's weirdness. the next to do so is venetia in the bath scene calling him a freak, but it's too late. farleigh is too early.

and i like to think he clocks oliver too early because he sees the jagged edges that he recognizes in himself. i think that one other thing that farleigh envies is oliver's freedom to let go. freedom to let go is very similar to freedom to be, but not quite the same.

to be is about perception: farleigh knows he cannot fall out of line, but would like to, and oliver does not have to worry about it at all (i mean, he does, because oliver also performs for felix, but farleigh doesn't know that).

to let go is about the self: farleigh is too scared to even want what oliver eventually does, to even consider the possibility. oliver can let himself want. oliver can let himself act. oliver just can do things and want things. i'm not sure farleigh can.

and so in this scene, when oliver's wants and actions have landed him nowhere with farleigh, felix, venetia, the cattons, of course farleigh gloats. he can let himself do that, because if the cattons are slowly discarding him, farleigh can allow himself this one small victory. he's relieved because despite the dangerous similarities, oliver is, thankfully, not really the same as farleigh, right?

but like. this movie is a love letter to all things gothic. oliver is a white man. he prevails. the brief performance that oliver put on did eventually end up more effective than farleigh's lifetime of constraint. my heart fucking breaks for him to be honest.

the issue that remains is the fact of farleigh's survival. i like to think that oliver came to respect him. oliver is smart, but farleigh is clever. he picks up on everything oliver does (to refer back to the karaoke scene, farleigh immediately retaliates in the cleverest way, in the moment), and he's the only one to do so consistently (venetia, again, for example, comes close, but too late; oliver doesn't like that, there's nothing to work with). hence, stay with me for a little longer, the paradox: farleigh survives because he was never enough for the cattons, but he is very worthy of oliver's attention. in his own freaky way, oliver wants him. look at that.

so. farleigh. farleigh might come back. he always comes back. and i think oliver wants to try harder next time.

[carlyraejepsans]

for real WHERE does the idea that [utdr humans] are nongendered so that "you can project on them" come from. their literal character arcs are about NOT being a blank slate to be filled in by the audience

i think i understand the assumption on some level for undertale, because there is a very intentional effort to make you identify with the "player character" in order to make your choices feel like your own (the beating heart of undertale's metanarrative lies in giving you an alternative path to violence against its enemies after all, and whether you're still willing to persue it for your own selfish reasons. YOUR agency is crucial).

of course, the cardinal plot twist of the main ending sweeps the rug from under your feet on that in every way, and frisk's individuality becomes, in turn, a tool to further UT's OTHER main theme: completionism as a form of diegetic violence within the story. replaying the game would steal frisk's life and happy ending from them for our own perverse sentimentality, emotionally forcing our hand away from the reset button.

i think their neutrality absolutely aids in that immersion. but also, there's this weird attitude by (mostly) cis fans where it being functional within the story makes it... somehow "editable" and "up to the player" as well? which is gross and shows their ass on how they approach gender neutrality in general lol.

but also like. there's plenty of neutral, non PCharacters in undertale and deltarune. even when undertale was just an earthbound fangame and the player immersion metanarrative was completely absent, toby still described frisk as a "young, androgynous person". sometimes characters are just neutral by design. it's not that hard to understand lol.

anyone who makes this argument for kris deltarune is braindead. nothing else to say about it.

[emeraldstorms]

Aaaaanyway….

Matt Murdock and Foggy Nelson are the best thing that happened to each other respectively and they should kiss.

[korrasamibottles]

Yeah Venom of the Red Lotus showed us how crazy powerful Korra is but The Last Stand had Korra transform the destructive power of a massive bomb blast into something regenerative in the culmination of one of the best character arcs I've ever seen. In my OPINION!!

[anghraine]

It's weird to describe any Tolkien thoughts as "coming out of nowhere" given who I am as a person, but I woke up thinking about Ghân-buri-ghân.

I wish the depiction of him were not deeply entrenched in noble savage tropes, because there's something kind of amazing in this idea of a people who have barely survived through the ages yet still persist; who saw the earliest warning signs and ditched Númenor before most people had the slightest idea of what was going to happen; who have gotten profoundly screwed over by basically everyone except (iirc) the Haladin; who have had their own powers since the First Age; who have always been implacable opponents of Morgoth's and Sauron's forces, even as these days they're hunted for sport by the Rohirrim; and at the same time who are facing down the threat of total obliteration by Sauron. And Ghân-buri-ghân manages to navigate all of this and get his people security and autonomy.

So like ... there's a seed of a really intriguing concept there, but I'm not sure Middle-earth has ever been in the right hands to actually do it right.

[potatobugz]

do you think the mess in oshiros hotel is meant to signify that hes been letting his problems pile up until its become too overwhelming to handle.

im thinking about the fact that he's definitely the one who's been making the mess but he doesn't even realize it. he ignores the clutter until it becomes too hard to ignore you know? like when it starts actively blocking the way to the presidential suite. he insists that he and his staff will handle it and that madeline shouldn't clean up his own mess, but he still doesn't do anything about it. does he know that the staff is gone? that it's just him there?

mr oshiro is so hell bent on impressing madeline so that she'll stay in his hotel. he's so in denial of everything. he doesn't even realize he's dead, he still thinks his hotel never got shut down. I think his insistence on her staying is bc he really wants to believe that the hotel is open, and a costumer would affirm that belief. it could also maybe be a mixture of loneliness too. (also, him treating her as a costumer even after she says no is absolutely him being in denial. that man is very unhealthily attached to this hotel,)

and even though it was nice of madeline to clean it up, there's still parts of the hotel she can't fix. the plumbing. the windows. the, hole in the ceiling (oops.) she's not qualified to help him, and that's why I think the chapter ends on a bit of a sour note. madeline is of course not a bad person for wanting to help, the point is that she can't. it is unfortunate but true

anyways mr oshiro is a very good character i like him a regular amount. im normal about that old man

[pumpkinrootbeer]

imo there is something to be said for how Lip is consistently placed in the position of protector/parent. Obviously we see him take care of all his younger siblings, especially Liam. But beyond that from very, very early on in the show we see him have a strong vested interest in protecting kids, like when Karen is going to give the baby up for adoption; "Now, uh, do you check the, uh, families for, you know, um, alcohol and drug abuse? Make sure they have enough income to feed it and stuff?", "But they're still good families right? You make sure they're going to decent parents?"(s2.8)

Or in s3.4 when he convinces Mandy to help him rescue her half-sister, Molly. "She sounded desperate. Let's see if we could get her, let's see if we could help." and "If she ran, it was probably for a good reason, no?"(s3.6). Of course there's the entirety of season 4, where he's not only willing to drop out of college to look after Liam but then is afraid to even let Liam out of his sight for almost the rest of the season. And then, obviously, there's Xan in season 8 & 9, a complete stranger but still a kid in need who he then helps without question. He also gives Xan and her mom ten thousand dollars.

Also in s4 (sorry just a really good Lip season in general), it's Lip who realizes something is wrong with Ian and goes looking for him (s4.5) and then it's Lip who takes care of Fiona after she breaks parole (s4.10). On top of which, the only reason Lip is even going to college, despite vocally saying he doesn't want to numerous times, is because it'll help his family if he gets a good job; "Except the little ones Debbie, and- and Carl, and- and Liam, and, my sister Fiona. I could be there for them but I'm not. You know, 'cause I'm here. 'cause I'm told that, that's something I could do for those kids, in a big way, in a real way.' (s5.8)

This perception that Lip both doesn't care about Fiona (or the rest of his family) and doesn't do anything for them is such a misconception. Obviously, there's everything he does to help in s4, from picking up Fiona in Wisconsin to stealing food and cooking dinner every night, but there's how he does try to help Ian, like in s7.3 when he convinces Ian to take his meds. Or in s9.6 when he does a gig as a sober coach to get Ian money for his commissary account in prison. And, then, of course there's how Lip is the reason Fiona goes to AA in s9, both by convincing V to not enable Fiona, "What kind of friend do you want to be? The kind that sees her drunk at the Alibi every morning?" and also by telling Fiona, "Get to a meeting."(s9.12).

I think it's also worth mentioning that Lip only kicks Fiona out once she starts being a danger to the kids in the house, "I'm not letting you stay here! Not with Franny, and not with Liam. No fucking way."(s9.12) Keep in mind, the previous episode he had to body block Fiona to keep her from yelling around and at Xan.

It's just such a wild misreading of the text that Lip is callous or selfish in regards to his family, and especially in the context of Fiona and their relationship. When people say that Fiona always took care of Lip and he never gave anything in return, or that he pushed her to take care of their whole family and never stepped up, I think they're just willingly choosing which parts of the show to engage with and which to ignore.

Obviously there's the age gap, she's 5 years older, (in s8 Lip says he's 23 and Fiona says she's 28) so I'm not sure how much you guys wanted a 4 year old to pitch in when you bring up what she was doing at 9. But beyond that, when Lip got old enough to help, he did. We see him helping throughout the show, we see him stepping up and caring for everyone including Fiona. And it's not just Fiona he was helping, he did Kev and V's taxes, he was the one who came up for the plan to keep Debbie out of jail in s1 when she stole the baby. He helps JimmySteve throughout season 1-3.

And at the exact same time, Lip ends up having to solve most of his problems on his own or he just never brings them to Fiona in the first place. When she does find out he has something going on, her advice usually boils down to telling him to fix it; "So what are you going to do?"(s2.5) "Make it right with Ian."(s2.6) "You want to piss away every single chance you get, including this job, that's your business but don't drag me into it."(s7.10) It's also interesting how in her big "I was nine" speech in s7.12, Lip is the only one she doesn't mention.

Honestly the only character we see actually looking after Lip during his struggles with alcoholism is Debbie throughout s6 and 7. ("I don't want you to end up like Frank" being the reason he goes to rehab, "Do you need us to hide the beer?", "He's trying to get sober Frank!", and of course her confronting him in s7.11 when she finds out he's been drinking and makes sure he's going to a meeting.)

I wanna make it really, really clear that I'm not blaming Fiona or anything other character. I honestly think it's actually really compelling story telling that Lip is the sibling Fiona has a completely different dynamic with and that he's the one she consistently leans on. Not to mention, Lip clearly struggles to accept help and is pretty closed off emotionally. (Almost every big scene we see regarding their family he shuts down and goes silent.) But! I do think there's just this wild misconception with Lip's character that he's ungrateful, selfish, and uncaring towards his family. Yes he's prickly and rude and arrogant, but he's also incredibly caring and that's been a consistent character trait since day 1.

[hadesknockedupintheunderworld]

Ngl it's weird finishing the Knuckles tv show and going to tumblr about it only for people (even who I consider bigger name fans) who also watched the entire show to claim that it "confirmed Knuckles Wachowski"

Like

I'm sorry

Did you somehow miss the part in the last episode where Knuckles had a whole montage of hanging with the Whipple family and Wade and saying "home" or something?

[bumblingbabooshka]

Janeway in 'Nothing Human' vs Tuvok in 'Resolutions' There's something here I know there is I can almost wrap my teeth around it.

[galactic-rhea]

.

Sometimes I remember my family is, overall, very very stupid

[zeeverseconfession]

im here to do fantasy au rambling don't mind me

Globe is a mage, cause why not? We get to see her cast spells, and learn new ones along the journey — her charm is probably going to be the first one to break if she's not careful.

She's not an experienced mage, but she's alright. Some of her spells go wrong, and during battles, she can cause harm to herself instead of the opponent.

Her powers are usually for healing, so she doesn't know many combat spells — that's what she's trying to learn, along with surviving along the road.

Grenade is a bandit, but a very clumsy one — sure, they're great at what they do, but they leave traces behind when they steal from a village.

They're part of a large group of people, who are also bandits/thief's, who all steal from the unknowing villagers and their market stalls, livingv in a pretty wealthy place.

Grenade is usually hanging around the outskirts of town, near the bridge. They have a charm, simply because it was stolen from the previous owner.

Their skills are more.. physical. The combat side of things, if you will. They're a great fighter, but need to be careful when it comes to knowing when to fight.

Pot is an elf — they carry a satchel filled with things that they've collected on the journey, along with a dagger for protection. The dagger has their charm on it, the shape of a leaf.

She also carry potions in their satchel, and when attacked, they use these to their advantage. Some have poisonous gas, while others do not.

Pot owns a market stand in the village he's from, and is pretty well liked from what we know, earning a good few gold coins in the process!

Debit Card & Wicker Basket are fairies — both carrying wands of their own. They fly around the forest, making sure it's nice and safe.

Wicker Baskets spells are on the nature side, used to grow plants, while also good for combat. She can use vines to wrap up her opponents.

Debit Card, on the other hand, uses his spells for things like commanding animals to attack the opponent at hand.

Combined, their charms are a flower and a bird.

Scroll is an Archer. He's not got much on his plate, but he has a good heart. He often helps around the local bakery, making sure the village is alright.

His skills are pretty good — while he can't work with a sword, he knows his way around a good bow and arrow, and can hit anyone with.. a good amount of perfection.

On the waters, we're greeted to a siren — a siren known as Purse, of course! She lures people into the water, before taking them as her own and sending them to die.

Her motives are clear, and most avoid sailing because of her reign over the other ocean dwellers.

Ripping out her heart is the only way to get rid of her — once it's done, the ocean is free from the chains she's left them in.

thats all.. for now..

.

[megkuna]

lots of people saying they wish nobara had come back earlier, but don't see anyone saying at which point in time it would have been relevant to have her make an entrance ... genuinely it would have felt so underwhelming to me at any other moment. what's the point of having a character in there just to have them? she would have served no immediate purpose. like, idk, this isn't slice of life. her making a grand entrance to come kick ass is actually rly nice from a storytelling perspective imo and this is how the story has gone from the beginning. one of gege's strengths as a writer imo is that his writing actually has direction vs the meaningless twists and turns of other big shonen like naruto where you have whole arcs that make you just "??????? what the hell was this all for"