#you arent subverting anything

[anqaspond]

i love looking at weirdos who write arranged marriage fanfiction with extreme contempt. fuck you actually :)

[dollfat]

those meme redraws of the like, dom woman and sub man leg poses just reinforces what the manospheare op believes about relationships.

[ravioliwings]

i wish i could show everyone how many christianity/catholicism based words i have blocked on here and how many posts STILL get through

[surpriserose]

I had to rage annotate the edgy slam poetry

[livsmessydoodles]

thinking about this scene today

this scene alone convinces me that byler is endgame bc you cannot make will actively say that hes not gonna fall in love and then write a whole plotline abt him being in love with mike.... just for it to not be reciprocated???

will is the only party member who's completely unexperienced with romantic relationships, which of course has to do with the fact that he's gay in the 80's, but this is a TV show. all of this is fictional so they can take whatever route they want with these characters, and making will continue to stay alone and suffer through unrequited love would be awful storytelling, especially when people claim that will moving on from his feelings would bring character development and growth.

wills feelings for mike arent there just to "show his growth". weve seen this kid go through hell and back yet even with everything kicking him down he stays strong and kind. hes the most selfless character in the show and always puts others needs before his own. in s4, they put a lot of emphasis in these character traits of his, and they're always picturing his love for mike as something selfless and pure.

now if his feelings are not reciprocated, how does this teach will a lesson that leads to character growth?? he already doesn't expect anything. life has shown him time and time again that he always gets the short end of the stick, why would he think this is any different?? making him have feelings for his best friend just to get rejected would just be a nail in the coffin, reaffirming to him that no matter what hes not worthy of ever getting what he wishes. this isnt character growth at all.

but if his feelings ARE requited, that gives us a twist to the story we havent seen. we would get to see actual growth for will, him learning to give himself value and realize that he DOES deserve happiness!! instead of leading into the expected spiral of bad things keeping up the consistency with everything else that has happened to will so far, finally giving him one good thing leads to us seeing a shift in his whole nature, and wed see him dealing with things he hasnt dealt with before!!! GROWTH!!!

besides why would they make such an intricate complicated storyline.... just to lead to a rejection we all saw coming? the GA expects him to get rejected. his feelings not being reciprocated would not be any surprise. but twisting those expectations in a way to shock the GA AND give wills character the happiness he so deserves after being through so much..... now THAT would be world shattering and a satisfying ending to both the viewers and will himself!!

this scene establishes a clear subversion trope, making us aware of how will believes he's never finding love, just for the show to later on subvert expectations and reward will with the love he deserves and never thought hed get🫶

[shesmore-shoebill]

since you mentioned an angel in neon blue as one of your faves…..your top 5 amangela fics perhaps? some honorary mentions too if there’s too many? 👀

Sorry for the delay on this, life got busy and then more busy instead of less busy and I wanted to give this ask its deserved amount of consideration.

anyway. Five is HARD. I will do my best. Order is not indicative of anything bc I've agonized long enough as it is. I've tagged folks + linked directly to their posts where I could find their associated tumblr post, and links to AO3 where I couldn't.

Also I cheated and made a separate list for NSFW ones. Partly because I know some people don't want to read NSFW. and to cheat a little on the 5 restriction.

As always, RPF with F as in fiction. From what I recall, none of these are attempting to speculate or make any actual statements about real people, they're all just works of fiction I like.

if anyone wants me to remove a link to their fic or a tag for any reason, let me know.

close my eyes (and fantasize) by @baflegacy

listen. I am a fucking sucker for well intentioned and realistic miscommunication that stems from care and then goes wrong. I love a thing where someone cares about someone and thats why they're worried and the worry also means they are a little mad and a little hurt bc fuck, i want to help you, why arent you talking to me about this, did i do something, crossed with the other person doing everything in their power to do the exact thing driving them up the wall, because they genuinely care so much about the other person that its skewing their judgement. People who care and people who fuck up. I'll eat it up every time, and this one is written in a way that feels so real. 👌👌👌👌

the devil is in the details by @skiespeaches

this is a newer fic and its still in progress atm and so theres a chance it gets bumped into NSFW territory 😅 but im really enjoying it!!! The dynamic between Amanda and Angela takes the competitive edge we can see in videos and makes it into something phenomenal. Its got such strong tension and pacing, and its also got. REALLY GOOD COMMUNICATION. People react realistically and have reasonable fears and doubts but everyone also talks about them and trusts each other and its just so satisfying to read as a result. And it STILL does the tension and the 👀👀👀👀👀 so well. Guess its kind of funny to put this and the prior recc right next to each other but I genuinely love both of these. Communication and humans are weird.

not strong enough by @moviemandy

i love a disaster angela fic as much as anyone but because I feel like that trope is established among smosh rpf, I love having that get subverted even more. More Amanda getting comforted!!! yeah!!!!!And the way the dynamic and emotions are written in this one is especially satisfying to me, they all feel very real, and sweet. :') Also, Im always a sucker for the trope where someone tries to deflect from their issues by taking care of someone else and then gets CALLED OUT FOR IT. also, double bonus, this fic can be read completely platonically. :]

a field of yellow flowers by @unknownteapot

gah this one has so many layers and elements to it, its such a damn delight to reread. the bittersweetness of it all really 👌👌👌👌. Grudging respect and admiration in an awful space, magnetism of people who both deeply want to love each other and really don't (but they do). The world feels very realized and that's so important bc the fic clearly sets up the interplay as like. The two of them and also the world they are in as a distinct three players in the story. This fic has so many emotions!!! gut punch of an end! you feel for both of them so deeply by the end.

i've been having revelations by @poppyfamily

slight cheating bc this is courtmangela but it should still count imo!!! It contains another classic trope of people who care about each other deeply and it being percieved by other people before they clock it themselves. Its something I like specifically as a writing trope and only executed in specific ways- caring deeply and being affectionate does not HAVE to mean you want to sleep with or are in love with someone, and IRL assumptions about that can be. Infuriating. But love how this fic does it. :) Also its funny and it feels very genuine and the voices all sound. right. I love fics with lots of cuts where so much is said in tiny details and tiny moments, it makes the world feel very fleshed out. Also, Courtmangela as a band is just a blessed concept.

NSFW fics:

lets make this bed get squeaky by baflegacy

This rewrote my goddamn brain chemistry actually. Like yes, this one is hot, but the parts that really hooked into my brain are not exclusively the spicy bits. Pining RPF Amanda is SO important to my brain, and that dynamic of an Amanda silently losing her mind and Angela also silently losing her mind but slightly more at peace about it, combined with their very genuine friendship keeping things fine and then. and THEN. well.

personal leisure by unknownteapot

hey this fic is hot as hell. Its extremely well written. But also besides the nsfw parts the banter and the sort of instant connection all feel very real and unforced and i love that the end of the fic feels so open ended but also so light and hopeful and sweet. choosing to believe they meet for coffee the next day and it all goes swimmingly.

like she wants to try me on by baflegacy

this fic is about amanda in the submissive and breedable outfit and angela. It accomplishes eveeything you could want from that. Its Very nsfw. its VERY good. Writing smut is difficult on multiple levels- keeping it logistically and emotionally sound while keeping it spicy. It does all three really well. also the aftercare moment is really sweet. :]

bonus: its the subject of this ask so i didnt include it but shout out to an angel in neon blue- the tension is INCREDIBLE and the way the ending recontextualizes everything and leaves you unsure who was really in control the whole time is like. really impressive. The characterization is SO strong and feels so true to the Sarah Christ we know and creates an equally strong Creekside Killer characterization to juxtapose it. 👌

[cupcraft]

It is really interesting to me, and by interesting i mean so scary and baffling, to see how Dream's cultivated a fanbase.

To his fans, he is loyal to people that "dont care about him", he is "endlessly kind even though some people dont deserve it/arent receptive to it/are people who hate him", he is "helpless and doesnt know what he's doing", he is someone who "makes honest mistakes", is "mature in the way he handles controversy/situations". Dream has cultivated a persona of being loving, kind, loyal, mature and rational, but also equally helpless and in need of saving from a large fanbase. A lot of it stems from him being a white man, but it also stems from the way he's cultivated a fanbase within the power he has in parasocialism.

It is this that allows him to subvert controversy. Dream says or does something racist? It's "he already apologized so its okay", it's "he didnt know what he was saying", it's "ya'll are too sensitive", it's "all people do is want to victimize dream who is loving/kind/loyal/etc." Dream has grooming allegations against him and he admits to the messages being true and real and thus admits to flirting with minors and it's "dream is the victim". His twitlonger is on priv and it's considered "mature and rational". His initial horribly response is ignored because "of course dream would be upset :(! he just is so in need of our help and defense". And then there's the situations of doxxing that people bring up that dream has experienced things that are unjustifiable, but only as a matter of deflecting dream from ever being able to cause harm never as a point of empathy and importance in discussing that as an issue in itself.

It just really reminds me of many other cc's fanbases who continue to have a cc with issue after issue, cause harm after harm. It never matters. The consequences are ignored because those who allow the cc to get away with these things, dont think it affects them. And they dont care who it effects.

And that's the danger of it. To view someone in a position of power who can do real harm and has done real harm as infallible and incapable of anything harmful either due to viewing his heart as perfectly pure and kind or viewing him as helpless compared to everyone else, or to view anyone who critiques the cc as just blindly hating him stuck in an echo chamber of "he can do no wrong" is dangerous. it's dangerous for marginalized fans and fans who are victim to dream's harm or similar situations of harm because you are actively justifying and causing more harm in a cc's name who doesnt really gaf about you. To throw away all morals, ethics, beliefs, all for the sake of destroying people around you for one person. It's just i'm terrified for you too.

[c0rinarii]

WELL! I have just concluded the game that i bought on impulse bc i was hyperfixating on some of the characters (guess who!). I have A LOT of thoughts, but i'll start with some nutshell character thoughts and pairing shenanigains. Spoilers below!

That 4th tier deserves a bit of elaboration

Juro: He is, at his core, a blank sheet of paper. A mild sandwich with no seasoning. And I like how this game handled that fact bc he was someone more prior to this, but he's given a new personality so he can rest from being so self-sacrificing (if he's anything like the juro izumi from 2 loops ago). He's in the "they're there" tier for a special reason, bc he's kind of meant to be just There.

Renya: Despite being there just to help the audience answer some questions regarding the fucked up narrative of the story, I think what gives him a leg up from the "They're there" tier is his lowkey hilarious relationship with Ryoko. He is perplexed and lowkey salty about how short their relationship lasted no matter how hard he tries. He tries to not gaf as much as Ryoko does but he still does. Ei calls him out on this. Its so so funny.

Megumi: HER NARRATIVE ON GRIEF WAS VERY WELL DONE and if it werent for the spaghetti bullshit of an ending the epilogue was, I would be soooo so intrested how she'd handle moving on from Izumi. I find the concept of Juro/Megumi much more bearable with Juro now having one sided feelings for Megumi while Megumi considers giving him a chance or not. That wouldve been a great closing to their relationship instead of. just getting toghether with no qualms! yeah juro i totally wasnt mouring a dead version of you in that simulation. lets kiss.

Miyuki: I KNEW YOU COULD SAVE THOSE KIDS WITHOUT INFLICTING SEVERE TRAUMA. Sadly aside from "saviour from above" themeing with her, theres nothing much outside of that. While im greatful she was there, she is just there in the end. But her efforts give her a leg up from that tier.

Chihiro: The concept of a very peeved elderly woman stuck in a pre-schoolers body is a funny one and im just extremely glad that 13SAR is not big enough that sobposters arent using her at large to fufill their degen fantasies. Aside from that shtick though, nothing else. Thats literally a baby

Moving onto the canon main pairings!:

I saw someone calling HijiOki queer-bait and i can kindaaaa see why when basing it off the epilogue. Yeah they havent seem to progress much past 5 years and are at best still at talking stage while some of the others are literally married with kids (oh i'll get to that.) But I like to see it as the only pairing with realistic progression past. everything thats happened. Aside that they're just very funny!! Love their dynamic, will be rooting for them no matter how long it takes.

I did not expect myself to like SekiFuyu this much!! I do agree that Iori ESPECIALLY deserves more story outside hanging with gals and crushing over Sekigahara (not to say i didnt like it!!), but im very glad that the story subverted my expectations! I want them to be happy first and foremost, but i feel like the added angst from Iori realisng that she was a clone of THE Chihiro Morimura wouldve made this ship just a little bit more peak. Aside that, I support Iori shoujoisms and Sekigahara finding love and happiness.

I think my rating on Nentomi will change the more I ruminate on it. MeguJuro would be bumped up above RenRyo IF they didnt immediately fall in love after those 5 years and have Megumi still "thinking about it" while Juro goes "pleaaase :(" bc i think Megumi deserves to tease him a lil and think more about What the hell happened. ShuuYuki is the worst case of comphet between a lesbian and a looser bisexual ive seen.

Now.... the elephant in the room.

Ive talked to moots about how much i abhored the ending at first. Aside from the Darling in the Franxx-esque cop out, you expect me to believe that some of them just. got toghether after everything?? without any processing of What The Hell just happened?? nothing at all?? god

Im not the one to usually complain about comphet bc yeah its something i hate, but it usually doesnt sour my experience of consuming media so much. But god this is where its one of the main reasons why an ending is ruined for me. I hate hate HATED some of the epilogue scenes, esp with Nentomi and Shuuyuki bc of the straight people "my wife sucks but i love her" humour it radiates. ugh.

I would've loved a much more... bleak? more bittersweet?? outlook on the situation? after realisng everything is not real and you are basically the 15 adam and eves left to recreate human civilzation... that would be a pretty fucking huge thing to grapple with. I just wished that they had more complexity with this ending. Or! just stick with the fact that they're forever trapped in space colonies left to deal with the horrors of their situations and the mistakes of those in the past. Sorry for bring a tragic yuri enjoyer, but the overbearing dread and loom from the simulation story was what really made me intrested in 13SAR. To see it just solve itself with little drawback was so lame.

I read the George Kamitani aimed for 13SAR to have a mecha and shoujo hybrid story. While that's honestly an awesome concept, im sad it means that he can miss out on more complexity when intepretting the narrative when it comes to certain relationships (shoujos can be complex too!) I also heard that the game was meant to be at least 3 times longer that it is curently which is. wow. Its a shame that so much content got cut out 😭 bc i feel like a bit more time with these characters is all i need to make my verdict more positive.

As a bonus, i'll include a crackship tierlist too! Alot has changed

I miiight need another few days or even weeks to compile another thoughts post bc theres definitely more things i wanna talk about (the narrative structure, Tamao, 2188 theories, themes of japanese imperialism-). But so far, im gonna let it ruminate for a bit before picking it back up to analyse

[transgenderism-horror]

i do absolutely think "love negativity" does exist, especially for queer people. being yelled at for holding my boyfriend's hand in public isnt love positivity, thats for sure. even the influx of aros and aces saying they dont want to see people kissing at pride isnt love positivity. i know people like to deny that happens, but as an aromantic who's been openly aromantic for over a decade and in many aromantic spaces, i have followed several aro people who've said they dont want to see people kissing in public, even at pride. which, again, sounds like love negativity to me. specifically directed at other queer people, which also leads into homophobia and biphobia.

i completely understand being loveless and all, but gay people have and do experience oppression for the love that they have. "love wins" is played out, but was vitally important. saying "comraderie wins" doesnt have the same ring to it when im not being comrades with someone im getting married to, im in love with them.

the concept of being loveless, subverting the expectations society has for what being a good person is, and enjoying life without love arent mutually exclusive to people experiencing oppression for their love. aro/ace people arent immune to being homophobic the same way gay people arent immune to being aphobic and the people i have encountered in the aro/ace community have just about the same proclivity to call gay people gross for having sex as gay people have the proclivity to make fun of asexuals for not having sex. ive been shamed for having sex, enjoying romance, and having a long term relationship as an aromantic more than ive had people shame me for being aromantic.

essentially, there's nuance to everything and saying broad sweeping statements like "X doesnt exist" about anything having to do with the queer experience is a massive pitfall in every discourse space. i wouldnt say aphobia doesnt exist just because ive experienced it less, or lesbophobia doesnt exist because a lot of governments didnt know they were real so they couldnt illegalize them, because it negates all the breadth of nuance that the world provides for us. in the good and in the bad.

"No more asks about this" ignored again. Okay okay

And it's funny that if, you read my post again, I was talking about a very broad concept of love, not just romantic. I in no way denied the oppression what people who date the same gender go through! Which would be a funny thing to do! Because I'm a same-gender attracted person and I identify as lesbian in the past! You'd be surprised how much I know about these issues, so you don't need to explain it to me at all! Funny thing, isn't?

I was referring to the fact that, even though certain forms of love are demonized, people still expect us to love. People still expect us to experience family love. Friendship love. Love in general. And we have to love in the right way, in the neurotypical, white way, built according to western standards. And if we don't live up to these expectations, we are ostracized and dehumanized. Love is a requirement for humanity. This is not a problem specific to just one context.

And about the "camaraderie" thing, I was just responding to the argument that "love wins" is an anti-war slogan, which honestly, seems very reductive. Love is not something inherently revolutionary. And it's not the only positive emotion there is. Also, love, in technical terms, says nothing about what someone thinks of another person. In a christian context, people often say that God "loves the sinner, but does not love the sin". My shitty father also says he loves me, like many shitty fathers. Okay, you love me. But do you respect me? Do you understand me? Do you perceive me? There must be more than just love to change the world. But anyway, this is just me commenting on my personal view on love.

I think I derail a little, but whatever. I'm not in a good mindset to provide an answer. I just want to say that I think you didn't understand me at all and at this point I'm too tired to explain myself.

[miriamundertale]

im going to be utterly deranged and spoiler heavy for monogatari and call of the night (specifically the manga) here but thats your warning

see the thing is that like. mahiru and kiku's arc is like such a weird perfect foil to koyomi and kiss-shot/shinobu's arc. both are a vampire who wants to die, and a human who inexplicably comes and to the vampire appears to fulfill their wish, but the human chooses to disregard the vampires opinion in order to meet their own desire. kiku just wanted to actually truly die. kiss-shot was looking to finally die. they both found their human through chance, either unexpectedly fulfilling plans or readjusting them for a better path. the real core of what makes them different, is the humans, specifically in how they subvert the desires of the vampire theyve met.

kiss-shot's death specifically in reguards to koyomi serves as a direct parallel to his own moral code. kiss shot doesn't want to die any old way, the second she really starts to be near death at the start of kizu she's desparate for koyomi to save her. kiss shot wants to be a martyr. kiss shot chooses to die as a "heroic sacrifice" for koyomi to regain his humanity. sadly for her, koyomi does the exact same back to her, and sacrifices his shot at humanity again to "save" her. kiss-shot's death is undone by the nature that she tried to inflict on someone else.

kiku and mahiru arent as perfectly connected the way koyomi and kiss-shot are, partially due to a large part of call of the night being pretty clearly on the fly narrative writing done by kotoyama (please season 3 confirmation too, itamura is so good at improving the rough edges of early cotn's narrative i cannot wait for an anime adaptation of the kiku arc), and more largely due to the fact that kotoyama is Not Nisio Isin. even so, they both are in a sense, saviors to each other, more explicitly through love. which. yknow. is unsuprising considering call of the night has from chapter 1 been kinda obsessed with weird angles on it but. not to tangent much. mahiru essentially gains his only way of handling his mothers mistreatment of him through not just meeting kiku as a teenager, but meeting her as a child after the loss of his brother and gaining a frame to process the world that works for him. i think the obvious angle with kiku wanting to die and mahiru being a real shot for her finally is pretty clear, but i think the process that a vampire falling in love with a human goes through is just as interesting of an angle to explore for this. her heart starts beating again. she loses vampiric powers. she becomes human again through mahiru. of course, like koyomi, mahiru ends up essentially "betraying" her wants on from the two of them, but in an entirely different way. she desparately wants him to live after, gives him guides to stay safe, teaches him how to destroy every single personal posession so nothing could be used against him once he turns and she's not there to protect him. the tragedy is that kiku is as inexperienced as every single other person in the story when it comes to love. why would mahiru want to live afterwards? when given the option of living without one of the 3 people in the world that made anything worth living, or dying, he chose death.

i think theres probably a lot more to say, i love that they both pose the question "what would you choose, either you living and your partner dying or you both dying" and mahiru answers honestly with both dying while koyomi scribbles both answers out to go "what if we both... half die?"

sorry for all of that im going to go explode now

[phoenix-is-the-hottest-thing]

dont mind me just ranting a little. i really hate the fact that honkai players in youtube comments always acts like they know the lore when their statement and argument is baseless speculation with no source whatsoever "we dont have enough information" "i think" when said info is available and straight up told in main story available on global. not to mention how the community LOVES to exaggerate how "depressing" honkai is like they have never seen an actually tragic and depressing death. constantly going "oh noooo character A is going to die 😭😭😭" when it will literally ruin their whole character arc. no seriously honkai story is wholesome compared to many stories with heavy themes. all deaths have meaning or are painted in a thick rose colored glass, the theme of the story is heartwarming (fight for all that is beautiful in the world) and they arent even in a post apocalyptic world setting. the honkai community seriously lacks people who openly critique the story writting with most overglorifying its writting.

:’)

I think it’s because Honkai got dark and then got lighter, but people didn’t really update their mental image to fit the lighter part of the story?

and now people have said it’s dark so much but it outright REFUSES to be dark anymore.

Aponia was nothing but simpery and good intentions, Kevin refuses to even consider killing Hua, Theresa is safe and sound and asleep away from the plot, the sims died and left Mei “fulfilled” rather than sad, nobody is mad at her for colluding with the enemy either…

I’m not mad that good things happen, but I like it when I think things might turn bad, too. I loved the darkness of the deaths in EE— it’s just that the ending basically makes them pointless, erasing the darkness with the rose tinted glasses. Honestly if they’d been just a little less intense on the Mary Sue Elysia they would’ve had me with a favorite chapter. It was dark and then it had a lighter twist and a kinder ending— much like Shattered Samsara, but it just doesn’t work at all for me.

Weird isn’t it? Shattered Samsara’s my favorite animation, too. What did they get wrong?

I think, in great part, Shattered Samsara was great because we were used to horrible outcomes and we were surprised by a good one. There’s pleading and emotional tension and the kinder ending is earned by Kiana struggling through pain and acknowledging all of it, all the darkness, and she’ll help Hua carry that burden. It’s cathartic, it’s awesome, and heartwarming, and until she decides that NO she won’t accept the sacrifice you don’t quite know Hua will survive this. (midway through).

Everlasting Flames and Because of You both have a fakeout loss that don’t hold up two seconds— there’s no tension because we know they win. Narratively there’s no doubt that they’re gonna win. If they lost, it would’ve subverted our expectations, but Mihoyo refuses to let them lose anything, especially Everlasting Flames. For Kiana this still works because it’s her apogee, her triumphant moment; a surprise would have meant the story has another twist coming, so it’s… fine. Good, just not as emotionally intense due to predictability. It’s good.

For Elysia… the exact outcome was more uncertain, but the surprise would have been that someone survives. They announced the deaths and then they died. Either no tension or disappointment. It’s the third animation in a row I was getting bored by, and it’s a treat for the eyes but not narratively significant in any way.

Everlasting Flames is a triumph; its narrative consequence is showcasing Kiana’s final push of growth into a realized individual.

Thus Spoke Apocalypse is a bittersweet epitaph for a man who announced that he’d die to accomplish his goal, and did. It isn’t necessarily all that interesting (it wasn’t to me, I skipped through) but it’s got the narrative significance of giving him the ending he has strived for all this time. It’s a reward for Otto just as much as it’s his funeral.

Because of You…

You get exactly what you were told you would get and you can skip the animation entirely without missing anything. Elysia tells Mei she’s going to fight, take back the other sims, then destroy ER, and she does exactly that in that order. It has no narrative value beyond giving a band-aid of a conclusion to an arc that skidded and refused to acknowledge death is tragic in its last moment, too focused on trying to state over and over and over again what we already knew: that there’s beauty and goodness in the world. (Not despite the bad. The bad gets such little consequence that it might as well not exist. The Show not Tell rule is crying.)

People have called out Because of You claiming it copies Everlasting Flames but that’s not quite right; it’s that they share the same story beats (main character gets beaten by Herrscher then rises again in very shiny glory thanks to the power of friendship).

Except for Everlasting Flames, you could forgive that because it was a peak, a triumph— glory is predictable, but you can get fucked over in an infinite amount of ways.

There’s just no tension. Thus Spoke Apocalypse I got bored halfway but at least it had angsty flashbacks and a bittersweet end— if I’d actually cared for Otto’s fate I would’ve probably enjoyed it very much. I like nuance.

Everlasting Flames didn’t need nuance because it was about glory and growth and Kiana coming into her own.

Because of You needed nuance so bad, and it didn’t get it. Closest we get is HoC saying she did think Elysia is beautiful which is… honestly kind of laughable.

And ever since that part of the story, nothing really dark has been allowed to happen? Earth people are gone but literally not ONE person we know has been affected so far. Schicksal HQ and Salt Lake Base are fine. The robot guy is cool with his new body his bestie Jackal made for him. Stigma will end in dreams rather than blood even if the villains get their way. Bronya basically greets Mei with “hi”, feeling no negative emotion whatsoever despite being one of those to pick up the pieces after Mei left Kiana for World Serpent, we’re not even allowed to play their spar. I haven’t caught up with the update from yesterday but I don’t think there’s a lot of tragedy— couldn’t they have at least made a flame-chaser one of the living dead for some real pain? It’s just MEI being like whelp we’re gonna die anyway and Prometheus going :/ so far.

I don’t think spoiler culture makes any sense, and this isn’t that. It’s about tension. It’s about taking me along on the roller coaster ride and making me fear the speed and the height even when I know I’m safe. This is turning into a merry go round in a bad way. :T

[margle]

anon from yesterday n yea i watched it earlier, overall p much what i expected . i thought kaitlins acting was rly good in particular in the scene where dennis was monologuing abt their childhood n i think it provided interesting insight into her as a character nd how dennis can affect her but th misogynistic speeches were just a little 2 real for me so i just kinda sat thru them like uhh …. okay then! bc they were jst sooo aggressively vitriolic. like, sure, you’re not supposed to agree with dennis, but at the same time, none of it was being said in a comedic way yk. it was just dennis repeating real things ppl actually think and say abt women

yeah so much of the episode had me sitting there stone faced. which isnt really a great thing for a comedy show. in terms of lore I like the episode because it provides some more insight into the trash twins dynamic. and also it was a dee centric episode (finally!).

but imo I think the issue comes from the fact they are trying to do three things at once.

1: use the characters as vessels for social satire, in this case satirising the way men treat women's sports and also the way they try and negatively define the relationships between women.

but also 2: create interesting and deep characters that feel human. the gang are deeply flawed but you do connect with them.

and finally 3: make it all funny.

and sometimes these three things can work together well. but sometimes they can clash.

for example:

they were trying to depict the way men treat women's sports. and lots of things about it was effective. it felt viscerally uncomfortable. you could really empathise with dee and how small she felt in that moment. it said some interesting things about how women are people who are going have conflict with one another but their inter-personal relationships aren't entirely positive or negative. they are complex.

but none of that was particularly funny. or, as a woman who rlly likes dee, enjoyable. (and you could also argue that it didnt achieve anything - ill get to that later)

it also felt less like an exploration of the trash twins as siblings, and more like an exploration of men vs women. which is okay, because in this instance they were using their dynamic as a means to portray an issue. but when they do that, it is often at the expense of making them feel human. or at least making them feel like their own characters.

and then theres the whole thing about whether satire is effective if it is just someone touting bigoted language with no real subversion. (this shit is confusing so feel free to disagree with me if ive said it wrong)

I think I would've loved the episode sooooo much more if there was more explicit subversion of the stuff dennis was saying. for example, the waitress kicks the punching bag and is great at it. but then dennis beats her. when I watched that, I presumed it would be revealed that it was part of the waitress's plan to make dennis hurt himself, so they could win. but that was never said, I dont think. and also at the end: the waitress says she doesnt like womens sports. which is something dennis said earlier. and on one hand, that is completely fine because the whole point is that women arent a monolith. they have differing opinions about women's sport.

but then again, why does dee just stand there and take it? she was beaten down throughout the episode, and at the last moment had a tiny victory. she overcame her internal obstacles. but her victory was subverted and turned bitter because she received no external validation. (which is interesting from a dee lore stand point but not satisfying as the audience) so that was aim 3, being funny, getting in the way. they went for a punchline, which slightly ruined the effectiveness of the satire. because dennis's claims were only temporarily subverted. in fact, his misogyny about women's sports was actually reinforced by the ending.

so aim 3, being funny, got in the way of the satire and also the portrayal of the waitress's character. despite being seen as multi-faceted throughout the episode, at the end her motivations and character becomes secondary to a punchline. why would the waitress do all that if she didnt care about sport? (im suppressing my deetress instincts rn) why would she stay? why did dee not question why she said that? whatever it achieved, it definitely made dee's character more tragic.

so ultimately this episode is fascinating because I think most of the issues with it, you could argue, are subjective. you could argue that sacrificing humour for a serious and uncomfortable depiction of misogyny (like in the gutter ball scene) is fine. or you could have even found that scene hilarious. and you could argue that because the ending is funny, it is fine to negate the other two main aims. and you could even argue that the ending is actually brilliant because it subverts the sports movie stereotype and is a more accurate portrayal of the experiences of women in sport!

I hope I dont seem like im just shitting on the episode. I liked lots of it. and ill probably be talking about its implications with dee and her relationship with dennis for ages. but yeah idk. I could argue about this in circles forever.

but tldr: weird episode. some good bits, some bad bits. and also the good bits could be bad bits and the bad bits could be good bits. depending on your priorities / what you want the show to be.

[jemmo]

read your tags under the pran gifset where he almost confesses, and i wanna say both times i had watched it and after that as well, i thought it was too insincere so i said "no pran no", but yea it makes more sense now. i still think pat did good by not letting him finish bc he deserves a better confession than that, but from prans side of things, he was at that point, he Was ready.

from a script perspective, i think they're either aiming at a late, private, and charged confession or an explosive, public, emotional one. and idk which one I'd like more tbh 🥲

(or they'll just shout it out onto the sea like in the end credit, and I'll be a clown.)

thank u sm for reading my tags bc this was literally one of my fave parts of the ep just bc of how interesting the whole conversation is. i still need to write a long ass post breaking down all the parts of it bc i have A LOT a lot to say.

but as for when a 'confession' will be, i dont know if im in a minority with this but i dont really need it?? like yeah would it be nice ofc, and there are some things that make me think it would be good for the characters and progression. pran has always had to love so silently and wordlessly that ofc i'd love to see him finally claim his voice no matter the form, being a whispered, quiet confession just for pat's ears or a proclamation to the world. and i could argue for both, bc its in pran's nature to not be loud, and so i think a quiet, private confession just to pat, in a situation that had no pressure or expectations, thats casual and fun, almost like he's saying it as a throwaway line, like he says it before he catches himself, i think that would be lovely, bc it would speak volumes for how truly safe and comfortable and free he is around pat that he voices his feelings without thinking twice about it, that would be great progression.

but equally great progression would be a loud confession, in front of people, a statement, a claim. bc the time skip has really made it so a lot of unseen character progression couldve occurred. and i think we see it both through pran at uni, the way he steps up and handles the play and talks to the guy that isnt pulling his weight. and also with pat, how he's developed confidence to instigate a lot of their flirting as well as take it further where pat wont. i dont think pre time skip pran would have the confidence to do those things. so a public confession, if hes ready for it, i feel like is possible. the only thing i dont want is for a first confession to come at a time when people are arguing. like yes it would be dramatic if the families were arguing and pran said enough im saying it im in love with pat. and yes ofc pat would appreciate that kind of commitment and dedication to him. but for the same reason that i didnt want a confession during this rooftop scene, i wouldnt want a confession like that either. bc its forced. it says to pat im only willing to confess my feelings when under pressure, when forced to, when theres no other option. i want a confession to be pran's free choice that he makes, not a heat of the moment choice he's forced to make. in that situation its too much of pran having to choose between pat and his family, and thats a situation i dont think pat ever wants to put pran in.

as for pat, who has to dig through the layers of meaning and implications in everything pran does and says, i think he'd like and appreciate a clean and bold statement. just a simple i like you. but equally, i think he doesnt need or expect one. like i dont think he thinks he deserves or is entitled to a confession, which is one f=of the many reasons i think the bet ended like it did. bc as much as he'd like to hear the words, he also understands pran. he understands him so wholly and completely. and unless it was pran's free choice to confess, i dont think pat wants to hear it. bc as much as he'd want it, he doesnt need it. his understanding makes it so that he can hear those words through everything else pran does and says. its in his smile that lights up whenever he sees pran, its in the joy he radiates whenever he gets to do something for pat and whenever pat does something for him, its in his eyes that just cant lie, his eyes that scream i love you louder than any voice could.

so if we dont get a confession, i wont be mad. bc id much rather watch a relationship where love flows out of every word and action two people say than a relationship where they say i love you but dont show it. for them, i think a confession is an addition, not a necessity, and it holds equal weight to all the other ways they convey their love.

[myrfing]

honestly most e-s fans arent like actual traddies even if they like the aesthetic. i think they mostly just consider the godfather of imperialism and race superiority thing under the blanket of “villain aesthetic” and like him as like, the bad boy option in a YA fantasy romance novel. their protags are usually spunky willful pretty-but-different girls full of fire and wit and funnily enough “anti traditonalist” in the way that they aren’t submissive homemakers but rather wild and uniquely smart and a bit of a manic pixie towards their uh other half who is still this relatively traditional man who loves their character the way a “man loves a woman” with assertiveness, power, protectiveness, and a hidden gentle vulnerable side that they only share with The Woman (or some feminine bridge) in their life. he does not see the woman as below him but looks to her as the one and only light and heart in his complicated life, something venerated despite the fact she might be considered “weird” by larger society. in a sense they want to flip around the woman-supports-man into a man-supports-woman thing but with the picture intact. like the point isn’t being a…TRADDIE traditonal woman but a “nontraditonal” woman who is still traditionally loved by a fairly traditonal man in that they like the romantic conflict between “strong willed feminine who subverts expectations of piety” vs “stubborn powerful masculine who subverts expectations of moralism” and the compromise found between that. everything else matters very little.

im not gonna lie and say I dont think it’s lame as hell & that ultimately both these character archetypes are not very exciting and are just another link in the long chain of really boring and conformist cawntent and honestly think it just deserves the hate it gets for being so fucking lame but probably a lot of uh harmony would come from identifying whether or not someone likes e-s as their dark and broody traditonal-but-aesthetically-subversive fantasy guy and someone who likes e-s as a character in a larger story with political themes and just accepting that as it is. because getting someone who wants mostly a fantasy husband to HAVE TO comment on the political aspect of the story means you’re gonna get a lot of very not well thought out takes about the pertinent topics that nobody needs to hear & getting someone who cares mostly about the political thematic aspect to look at e-s as a romantic lead is gonna get you a lot of “why do you like this guy like that” lol when it has nothing to do with questions like How Does Race Purity Manifest As Violence. Like the question turns into How Does Race Purity Manifest As Violence When My Husband Is Depressed and Sad Because He’s Working Too Hard And Needs My Cuddles. you guys are not talking about the same thing. im not saying there isnt a point where the shits intersect but generally it’s not worth it. it’s like arguing with a breaking bad fan who thinks walt is just a badass pulling himself up by the bootstraps about how it’s a critique of x y and z like you are naht gonna get anywhere. they LIKE the show because they see le walter as a power fantasy and changing anything about that means they will no longer care about the show which big whoop but they’re not gonna change anything about it because YOU think about it differently. and as someone who always argues about tellitubbies online it has net 0 impact like xiv is made to generate profit so in the end trying to parse it in a politically meaningful way doesn’t really result in much of anything and you can say megashipperz are consuming the media just as “correctly” because of that. I do it because I like it and because I do think there is value in acknowledging whatever some human person was trying to convey in the story they wrote even as it’s been processed into cornmeal, and that it’s worth picking out biases in like, say, why a japanese game wants people to think of figures who represent xyz in a certain way but. whatever meaning we ascribe to the game’s story is always going to be confined within the box of the fact it’s a corporate product so wasting too much time arguing with individual fans about how they’re engaging with it is like…watever dude. fandom is worthless for the most part

[gayspock]

OKfirst off. heads fallen off tonight im so out of it so this will make no sense<3 IRONIC

but for real HELP. i think "crew is not in their right minds" plots can be really hit or miss- like... i say that in a very general sense of the trope, if that makes sense? basically anything where their behaviour is greatly altered by some outside force and they "act weirdly" including, sometimes, possession and the such

because i think when its done wrongly it can sort of be... just really unconstructive? i dont know if that makes sense, per se. because the further you get from your characters, the more detached it is: less consequences; less exploration; less attachment to all of it. like i do think it always needs to be a reflection of something and not just spouting silliness.

theres for suuree some trek examples im thinking of BUT. i actually think buffy always did really good episodes where characters got had their memory/perception of reality severely altered to the point where they were all TOTALLY acting out of character but it was still a commentary on them as individuals. like tabula rasa. i swear theres others (i know there's one in angel too, but yeah)

and obviousssllyyyy this wasnt as, like, as a defined separation in perceptions and thus behaviours but MORESO something akin to like. the naked time or something where its intentionally left a bit more vague, just that theyre all sort of slightly acting out of it and-

THE THING IS

WHAT MAKES THE EPISODE I FEEL LIKE

IS I FEEL LIKE ACTORS AND WHOEVER HAS THE SCRIPT IS HAVING THE TIME OF THEIR FUCKING LIFE WITH THIS ONE...HELP...

AND YOU KNO WHAT...T HE THING IS. at some point i just gotta rate it, man. i DO.

but also like- as i was saying... even STILL. i do think this kinda does still signify the cracks in the team for suresies, even if it was a mad exaggeration. because they have come a long, long way- BUT what i always appreciated was the fact that they really took their time with it, and at the beginning - that is, the beginning of the entire show, not this episode - they werent afraid to show how dysfunctional they were as a unit... like i said a few times... they didnt shy away from making their characters do dickhead things bc it just. literally would make sense for them to be dickheads in the beginning. and what i also liked was the way they built from that slowly and organically. and i think part of tht then means ir skinda like... theres stillll going to be that inherent. underlying messiness

and im also frowning at crichton

im a little concernedfor crichton. my friend crichton.

is crichton going to be quite well

because- LIKE... they said he was the least affected. bc he has the worst eyesight. BUT he did kind of- in my opinion- seem the most. you know. unhinged by far. AND he was having those visual hallucinations which none of the others did. and maybe its just visual flair, having scorpy there; maybe its just inconsistencies, or humans lacking a mental fortitude... BUT GUYSSSS I WAS LIKE

UP UNTIL HE STARTED BEING LIKE. ABSOLUTELY UNHINGED. which uh there is one thing i will say. LIKE i thought maybe he was totally unaffected (either by "his human biology" - or something of the sort) and this was just genuinely him snapping - and theyd "fix" whatever the issue was, and he'd still be riled up as all hell, in a classic farscape subvert subvert moment. AND I MEAN THATS NOT THE CASE- AND IM HAPPY ITS NOT- BUT MY POINT IS...

I DONT KNOW. maybe its bc i enjoyed the episode and i dont thinkits just an insane little detour as much fun as it is. somethings up here. crichton baby speak 2 me

but YEAH THATS- thats oneee part i didnt like so much. the bit with chiana. did not rate that. i think 90s shows... YES obviously it was meant to come off badly, and its not like he did anything, and like i said- im usually happy when they arent afraid to have their characters be awful. BUT. that one scene was really pushing it in a way i dont really like. mostly just because it did kinda teeter a bit too much towards shock value and kinda just bc- again, with shows in this era, i know its just... theyre never sooo careful about that kinda thing. trek had its issues (tng, mostly).. and buffy had so fucking many your head would explode. so i dont knock it as much but yeah

ANYWAYS

margarita shooters is stuckinmy head but also crichtons little ice cream thing help-

AND THE NUMBER OF TIMES

RYGEL SAID

BITCH

STOP IT WHY IS IT SO FUNNY WHEN HE SAYS BITCH IT MAKES ME JUMP FOR SOME REASON BECAUSE. i think because they say frell the rest of the time and bitch. im sorry its such a funny fucking word to me SORRY i just LAUHG LIKE. YOU BITCH. HELP. HE'S LIKE 2 MOLECULES TALL TOO LIKE PLEASE

[warderfromtheborder]

We are your Salvation

I once said that the ending of Shadowkeep was frustrating on release due to that line having no meaningful conveyance, like the punchline of a 20 minute long story but we never heard the story. I also said I trusted bungie to build off of it and give it a great payoff later down the road, as a very important and Very Good story beat, validating the choice to end such a pivotal story on such a (at the time) confusing note.

And hooooo boy I think I was right.

2 things have happened since then:

The Witch Queen and its attendant story reveals came out, and

I finally got into reading Berserk

And the Shadowkeep finale makes sense to me now. The doppleganger in the Black Garden saying "We are your Salvation" is the same as Griffith saying "I will get my own Kingdom". The first time we heard it was like the first time Guts heard it, it didn't mean anything tangible or relateable, it was just a giant signpost from this being we can't ignore saying 'YO this is where we're headed smiley emoji'. 

Now, thinking back to it, after learning about 

-the Witness

-Rhulk 

-and the manipulation of whole fucking planets like chess pieces 

-and carrying the cost of loss and heartbreak 

-and the EXCRUCIATING existential misery of Crow 

-and Osiris 

-and Savathun 

-and seeing how much can actually be sacrificed for the sake of just O N E person's dream of a better world, now when I hear

We are your Salvation

I see Griffith after his reincarnation proclaiming to Guts again

I will get my own Kingdom

Because now, like Guts, we know what that destination is. It isn't just intent, it's a promise. We've seen the roadmap. We know what it costs to get there, and the Witness was telling us that we don't have a choice of whether or not to pay.

The Witness, like Griffith, is so confident in its victory, and so shamelessly unfazed by its horrific means, it walks right up to us and doesn't say,

We have killed so many uncountable numbers of life and light and struggling hope and blazing glory and unshakeable faith that it makes your attempts to subvert the rules look just so darn cute, downright adorable, but it doesn't matter, we're still going to help you yes I said help you, we're going to take all that pain away and it won't hurt anymore because by the time we're done all the things you've ever cared about and all the people you've saved and all those guns you've told yourself will be the One that fires the shot that sets Everything to rights, we will have destroyed every last bit of it and you won't be hurt by anything at all. There will be nothing to suffer from. And nothing to suffer for. And that means you will be at peace, and isn't that what's best for everything? We're going to make sure none of you has to do this any longer. 

We're going to save you, struggler.

A signpost. A promise. An immeasureable price to be paid.

We are your Salvation.

It's so good! Such a great line! It means so much! And how fucking brave to be like, 'they arent gonna know what to make of this for years to come even tho this is the definitive declaration of war from the enemy' absolute madlads I love the narrative team so much.