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compacflt · 1 year ago

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hey! i was just going through your blog, and i saw a post about ice&carole and mav&goose. i looked a bit more but i couldn't find a post about your take on mav and goose's relationship, so i wanted to ask what it was. if you have answered this, i'm sorry about asking you again. imo i think what they had was wayy deeper than friendship but complex and probably not romantic, but again, i just wanted to know your thoughts on it.

thank you! and this blog has probably been one of the best finds i have ever come across on tumblr, i'll be sad to see you go.

yeah, i was really trying to be suave and subtle and mysterious about it with this parallel

like, you should be able to figure it out for yourself.

but luckily for you i looooove beating dead horses. to a problematic degree.

the full story of my vision of mavgoose (moose?) is in the completed draft of the extras that are coming out on Saturday. about halfway through. But i want to bring it back to the internal craft-of-writing debate i brought up yesterday—my inability to summarize, or to cut superfluous sections that don’t really matter.

I’ll stick it under the cut for spoiler reasons, but i wanna show the simple first draft of this scene versus the complicated, heavier final draft. And I want to ask any of you, if you’re interested—as a reader, which is more impactful? which should i end up publishing?

the simple first draft:

then i kept turning it in my head thinking of different ways to edit it to say something slightly different, to get a little more specific, coming up with things to add, and ended up adding like five extra paragraphs. which is this:

about 1/4 of the final draft (by which i mean, this is about 1/4 of the whole final discussion scene, but the goosemav-specific content only goes on for about another graf [omitted bc spoilers]):

(so to answer your ask explicitly, i actually don’t think they were anything deeper than good friends. imo there’s no evidence that they were anything deeper than good friends, especially with maverick blowing goose/goose’s wishes off soooo many times [‘she’s lost that lovin feelin;’ volleyball; refusing to do the responsible thing at least twice even after goose tells him it puts his & his family’s livelihoods at risk…bro all he does is blow off goose]. see me bitching in the tags for more on this)

obviously in my head the complicated in-depth version ⬆️ is the True version, the version of events that really Happened. i think the writing is in some spots much more compelling. But it just doesn’t make for a particularly good reading experience when it’s surrounded by like 3/4 pages of other discussion of history! sometimes too much of (what i think is) a good thing turns that good thing bad! & this is a major keystone dynamic of my whole series so i just want to get it right, for my own peace of mind. I guess im asking you to be the harsh editor i wish i had sometimes, if ur interested in doing so—this is genuinely a major major problem i have with my writing, i can’t ever just leave well enough alone 😭 please let me know if simpler is better/less is more in this case! do i publish the short vague “the reader fills in the blanks” version or the long boring “here’s EXACTLY how i see it” version?

#crowd sourcing beta readers. let me know.#also.#how many times do i have to say maverick is neither a good person nor a good friend #and the writers of TGM hugely whitewashed and dulled down the original sharpness and thoughtlessness of his character #for the sake of post-50s tom cruise mary-sueifying him #before it sticks?#if it helps you can write out a list of his actions in the original movie.#for instance: > blows off goose to be late to dinner with Charlie anyway #> follows her into the women’s restroom > continues a pattern of dangerous behavior even after #Goose his supposed best friend tells him multiple times it is threatening their jobs #the truck master scene… the locker room scene… the ‘can’t afford to blow this scene’#and then he does it a FOURTH TIME AND KILLS GOOSE HELLO!!!!!#so much for being a good friend like c’mon!!!#if he REALLY respected goose he would have SHOWN HIS RESPECT FOR GOOSE!!!#i am leaving this blog so out come the hot takes!#movies are also woobifying tom cruise lately! how’s that for a hot take #i genuinely felt insulted by TGM’s sexless passionless soft bokeh-light KIND OF half-sex with Penny. that was insulting.#what happened to the savage bitter kid in 1986 top gun? why is he so soft and toothless?#the only time we see him is in the ‘it’s not the plane it’s the pilot’ ‘EXACTLY’ exchange. THATS maverick.#sorry you know me. TGM is not my favorite. i am extremely cynical about it.#i love the IP but the writing choices in the 2nd movie wrt mav especially make me…. 😵‍💫😵‍💫#pete maverick mitchell #nick goose bradshaw #mavgoose #you can ignore me bitching but pls don’t ignore my begging for secondary opinions here

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someseriousthot · 2 years ago

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Madoka Magica: Rebellion - A Soapbox

Madoka Magica: Rebellion has to be THE most watched movie I’ve ever seen. I’ve watched it at least 30+ times by this point over the past 6 years, and I’m still noticing some little things here and there the animators included in the movie that I didn’t see on a previous viewing.

But for all of my viewings, whenever I see people commenting on why the movie sucked, why the anime sucked, why the anime’s ending sucked, why the movie’s ending sucked, or why all of them were good, I’ve yet to see someone with this take, and I feel like as a result a lot of folks are missing an extremely important Thing™ that directly lead into the ending of the anime and the reason why the Rebellion story turned out the way it did.

This is going to be filled to the BRIM with spoilers for the movie and the 12-episode series, so if you haven’t watched it I highly highly recommend you do, even if you found the ending of the anime dissatisfying. I was one of those people (the ending felt like it fell super flat for me, and I heard at the time it split the fandom 50/50) and I was so glad I watched it, it’s one of my favorite pieces of cinema ever and I recommend it to everyone I talk to when I mention Puella Magi Madoka Magica.

(I watched a vid about a guy’s blind reaction to the movie and it was hilarious but the comments had me FUMING because I kept seeing the SAME takes over and over and I GET! Where they’re coming from with their theories! But at the same time I feel like it’s missing a HUGE, VERY ESSENTIAL PIECE THAT WAS IN THE ANIME! Hence the soapbox moment)

TL;DR at the very, very bottom

A quick refresher on what happened at the end of the series:

- It’s revealed that because Homura kept rewinding time, a bunch of threads of Fate have tied themselves to Madoka as a result, and because of this, every time Madoka makes a contract, she becomes the world’s most powerful Magical Girl before turning into the world’s most evil Witch.

- Homura has created a noose for herself with those very same threads of Fate, because if she fails to save Madoka she’ll either reset the timeline again or turn into a Witch herself.

- Madoka uses her wish to become a “concept” that purifies Magical Girls before they can become Witches, ascending to a higher existence and essentially becoming a God as a result, disappearing from the world and everyone’s memories save for Homura.

- Homura decides to carry on for Madoka’s sake, trying to protect the world that she sacrificed herself for in honor of her memory, but at the very last second we see a strange scene in the final episode post-credits...?

Sound familiar? Familiar enough? Good. Now, before I go into what happened in Rebellion, I want to tackle an elephant in the room that’s going to be extremely important for what takes place in Madoka Magica: Rebellion, as it’s this Very Important Thing™ that serves as the catalyst for the entire movie.

Point 1: What was that ending?? (aka The Final Timeline)

A lot of folks were really dissatisfied with Madoka essentially disappearing from reality/becoming a God because it felt like it came WAY out of left field. Why didn’t Homura just reset again? Why did Madoka have to disappear like that? Why didn’t she just wish that magical girls weren’t a thing, or that the Incubators never came to Earth?

If you remember the anime, then you know that:

- Resetting the timeline again would have just added more Fate to Madoka, which would have exacerbated the problem without solving it (which is why Homura began to despair when she realized she couldn’t stop the cycle she was currently trapped in).

- Because of the nature of Madoka’s wish, she couldn’t do that just as a normal Magical Girl; she had to be able to reach every Magical Girl that was falling into despair and risking the destruction of their Soul Gem (and becoming a Witch). Unfeasible for a measly human body, or even the body of a single Magical Girl.

- During her discussions with Kyubey, it specifically says that Magical Girls were the sparking factor for a lot of humanity’s development and creating the society that Madoka lives in today. If the Incubators never came to Earth, then we would all still be naked living in caves.

NOW: Up until this point, the timeline has been playing out like every other that Homura has lived through thus far. The month starts over, she goes back to school and meets Madoka for the “first time”, she tries to warn her not to make a contract with a creature promising a miracle in exchange, she starts preparing for Walpurgisnacht while trying to keep an eye on her. If she can’t beat Walpurgisnacht, or she fails in keeping Madoka from making a contract with Kyubey, she resets the timeline.

And things play out normally! She was hoping to prevent Sayaka from making a contract with Kyubey, considering she knows what’s going to eventually happen to her, and Madoka losing her closest friend (that she knows of) at the time is tragic, but that’s not Homura’s priority. Losing Kyoko was tragic (especially since she was trying to save Sayaka somehow), but that was another calculated loss. She manages to prevent Madoka from making a contract with Kyubey (with a couple extremely close calls) until the end of the month, and then it’s the showdown with Walpurgisnacht, and past experiences have her pulling out all the stops to finally defeat her this time.

Unbeknownst to her, Kyubey has been having these little meetings with Madoka, where he reveals that she has an insane amount of Fate attached to her, despite her being just a normal school girl. In their next meeting he tells her that once she makes the contract, she’ll be the most powerful Magical Girl ever, before becoming the most powerful Witch ever. And in a later meeting, he reveals the reasons why Magical Girls fall into despair (with disturbing visuals), the reasons why Incubators came to Earth, and the purpose of Magical Girls dying to release energy into the universe. It’s also because of these meetings that Madoka decides to use her wish to help save Magical Girls before they become Witches, so their wishes (and their hopes and dreams) wouldn’t have been in vain.

So, right when Homura is about to succumb to despair and turn into a Witch, Madoka intervenes and promises her that all of her sacrifices, all of those timelines she spent trying to protect her, won’t be in vain, and she makes her wish and disappears forever.

Sound familiar? Frustratingly familiar? Good, because there’s something I want you to think about before we proceed to the movie:

At what point did Homura find out about these little meetings between Kyubey and Madoka?

She’s been way too focused on preparing for Walpurgisnacht to know about their little clandestine meetings. Not to mention that this is the first and only timeline that these discussions even happen. Kyubey even comments on this in the first couple episodes, that he’s never encountered a Magical Girl with so much potential before. He’s twigged onto it early on, and that rouses his suspicions, even moreso every time Homura kills him or interrupts before Madoka can make a contract with him, and it comes to a head when he finds out about her time magic. (Remember, Homura is NOT from this timeline, and so Kyubey doesn’t remember ever making a contract with her.)

Kyubey has never revealed the secret about Magical Girls to Madoka in any other timeline. In fact it’s because of Mami’s (unintentional) death that spurs Sayaka into making a contract with him (despite Mami’s trying to warn her not to), then Madoka throwing away her Soul Gem that it eventually comes to light, and it’s following Sayaka's (and Kyoko’s) death that he reveals the rest of it. Things never played out like this in previous timelines either.

Now, onto the movie, but keep this plot point in mind. This is going to be really important later.

Point Two: The Flower Field Scene (aka The Turning Point)

Midway through the movie, we get to the infamous flower field scene between Homura and Madoka. Homura’s already realized something weird is going on and has been trying to figure out who’s created the labyrinth they’re all trapped in, and now that she and Madoka have time alone she’s able to come clean about a lot of stuff that’s been weighing on her in the past three years. Namely her “bad dream” that Madoka disappeared and she was the only person that remembered her, that she began doubting her memories and thought she was someone she just made up, etc.

Madoka then tells her that she would never go somewhere so far away that she couldn’t see any of them again.

“I would never want to go somewhere I could never see anyone again. Even if there were no other choice, I know I’d never have the courage to do something like that.”

And Homura has a horrible moment of realization.

“Right...that’s right.”

Those are your honest feelings. And yet, I...how could I have made such a stupid mistake?

I shouldn’t have allowed that to happen. That no matter what I would’ve had to do, I should have stopped you back then.

This scene comes back to haunt her later in the movie, as well as DIRECTLY influencing her actions all the way up to the ending. However, I feel like a lot of misinformation has been happening that’s colored the reason why the movie went the direction it did.

A lot of people think that Homura realized that Madoka essentially martyred herself to save all Magical Girls from despair, feeling that she was forced into that decision on behalf of others. But we know that’s not the case, she entered into that contract willingly and was content with her fate, even if it meant everyone would forget her. Even her own family.

That Madoka seemed like she was happy doing this, but with what Madoka’s saying she thinks those are her “honest feelings” and that she should have stopped her from going through with it. That Madoka’s ultimate fate was her fault instead of a conscious decision Madoka made on her own.

Homura then spends the rest of the movie angry with herself for allowing it to happen and then trying to figure out how to reverse it.

Point Three: God and Demon (aka What was that ending?? 2: Electric Boogaloo)

Homura’s turning into a Demon in the end of the movie and splitting the mortal girl Madoka from the Law of the Cycle seems to be a really big point of contention for fans as to the reason why she did that. From the comments I’ve seen:

- Some folks think that Homura “knew” she was going to turn into a Demon if Madoka and the others saved her while in the labyrinth, and was wanting to destroy herself before that happened

- Some folks think that Homura was dishonoring Madoka’s wish by separating her, exercising her will over Madoka’s, which is completely unfair and disrespectful to what Madoka wanted

- Some folks think that Homura was planning on separating the mortal version of herself from the Law of the Cycle the whole time, or at LEAST after Kyubey revealed the truth about the Isolation Field and the experiment

- Some folks thinks it was because Homura missed/loved (or was obsessed with) Madoka so much she couldn’t bear to be apart from her any longer and that’s why she tore a piece of her away (to “keep”, as evidenced by the spool of pink thread - the records of Madoka before she ceased to exist - literally becoming the basis for Homura’s new Soul Gem)

But overall a lot of folks were probably confused (and rightly shocked) at the events that took place at the end of the movie, and were trying to figure out the justification behind it.

Now, I’ll ask you again: At what point did Homura find out about these little meetings between Kyubey and Madoka?

The answer: She never did. Therefore she is missing a very massive and crucial piece of context for the decisions Madoka made.

Remember, these discussions never happened in any other timeline. Homura found out the truth about Soul Gems and Witches long before anyone else did, but with the reactions they garnered in previous timelines she felt no reason to try to hammer it home with folks because they’d either be in denial or snap.

Another thing: Kyubey and Sayaka both said mentioned alterations with Madoka’s memories - Kyubey with wiping (or supposedly wiping) the memories of everyone that came into Homura’s labyrinth, and Sayaka saying that she and Bebe were “holding onto them” while the Incubators were focused on her so they could move about freely under their noses without their realizing.

Neither of them could have realized the ramifications this would cause with the famous flower field scene between Homura and Madoka, because not only does Homura not know that Madoka knew this whole time about what was happening and why, but that she thinks what Madoka’s saying (about never wanting to go somewhere she couldn’t see everyone again, that she’d never have the courage to do something like that, that she wouldn’t want to do that even if there were no other choice) are her honest feelings. And Madoka has none of her memories that helped her make that decision to do all those things. Homura takes her at her word because she has absolutely no evidence to the contrary.

So when she’s presented a chance at the end of the movie to undo that decision? To undo the damage done to Madoka and to give her that second chance of living a “normal” life that Madoka herself said she wanted?

It was inevitable. I couldn’t see the movie ending any other way, and I’ll explain why.

Point Four: Breaking down the arguments (aka that Pepe Silvia conspiracy meme from It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia)

1. The idea that Homura “knew” she was going to turn into a Demon if Madoka and the others saved her/was planning on turning into a Demon (somehow) the whole time

I don’t think this was the case at all. Homura was pretty damned determined to die during that whole fight scene. In her Despair Zone™ she was even about to put a bullet in her skull to kill herself before Madoka reached her, since her plan for the others to kill her fell through. She was so intent on it because she wanted to prevent the Incubators from reaching Madoka through her, which would have rendered everything the two of them went through for nothing.

If anything, being forced to relive Madoka’s deaths over and over in her own private Despair Zone™, AND Madoka coming to save her herself, is what probably influenced that part, which I will get into.

2. The idea that Homura purposefully, intentionally went against Madoka’s wish

Again, Homura was missing several very big and extremely important pieces of context that lead to what happened. Would she have still made that decision knowing? Who knows.

3. The idea that Homura was obsessed/”loved” Madoka so much that she undermined her wish

This might have some part in what happened, but I don’t think it’s the biggest player in this.

Again, it’s been three whole years since Madoka disappeared and Homura was left with only memories of her and the timelines she went through. During the flower field scene, she said she was starting to doubt her own mind, wondering if she had made all of it up. Then during the final battle, Homura was stuck reliving all the times she failed to save/protect Madoka over and over. Reminding her of the pain and sorrow she went through trying to change her fate. That those emotions were real, that those things happened, that she went through hell and back for her.

That whole thing with Homura saying she just wanted to see Madoka one more time? Betraying her “wish” (Madoka warned her not to be alone/go anywhere by herself, and if you remember the post-credits scene from the anime, that was PROBABLY how the Incubators got ahold of her), not caring what she would become as a result (which I think she meant turning into a Witch, NOT a Demon, or at least not yet) as long as Madoka was at her side?

And then the two of them team up, bolstered by the innate power Madoka has as the Law of the Cycle to destroy the Incubator’s trap and free her? Showing Homura that there was a way the two of them could be together without risking Madoka’s secret?

Homura saw a chance to fix her “mistake.”

She wasn’t scared, after becoming a witch she accepted whatever was going to happen to her.

And she wasn’t going to hesitate anymore.

NOT TO MENTION what do you guys think would have happened had Homura not done that?

What if Homura had allowed Madoka to whisk her away, joining the Law of the Cycle?

What if she hadn’t turned into a Demon and imprisoned the Incubators, using them to hold all the curses of humanity?

The reason this happened at all was because, right before the end credits, Homura was telling Kyubey about what happened in previous timelines. The Incubators had three years to plan this for when Homura was ready to be taken by The Cycle. (A fact that Homura is deeply frustrated with during the whole reveal scene when Kyubey starts monologuing)

What would have stopped the Incubators from doing this with another Magical Girl? Now knowing that the Law of the Cycle is more than one entity/aspect, what’s to stop them from trying to create another, more cunning trap for next time? Chipping away at the Law of the Cycle’s power a little at a time until they do eventually completely conquer it? How many Magical Girls would be sacrificed to this end? They created the Isolation Field for Homura, they could probably come up with something smarter for next time. And if it were any other Magical Girl do you really think they’d have the willpower she had not to call upon Madoka to save her?

Homura saw what she thought was a happy ending and, if fate wasn’t going to give it to her, she was going to bend reality and force it.

This also sets up the scene for the fourth movie because: 1) Homura can't sustain this reality forever. Once all the Curses are gone, or if she decides to destroy this universe, there's probably going to be a final battle somewhere, which will involve all of the other Magical Girls and their ultimate fate, especially since Sayaka alone remembers the truth (and Madoka was so close to remembering as well). 2) With the Incubators otherwise out of commission, this also means that there's going to probably be a finite number of Magical Girls now. With no Incubators there to grant wishes, for all the girls that fall into despair, that means others won't be there to take their place. Does that mean Madoka's Godhood (and therefore Homura's Demonhood) will become finite? Will the curses of humanity begin to overrun reality? Will reality reset itself and all the magical girls up to this point will have history rewritten to where their contracts, and therefore their adventures as magical girls, never happen?

Thanks for letting me get on my soapbox for a bit. If you have a chance to see the movie, I highly recommend it if for the fight scenes if not the story. The soundtrack is super nice too.

TL;DR: Homura didn’t know Madoka was told The Secret about Magical Girls and Witches™ by Kyubey in the timeline during the anime, so during the flower field scene she thought Madoka’s words were her honest feelings (when they weren’t). Then when being stuck in her own head after turning into a Witch she was forced to relive all of Madoka’s deaths over countless timelines over and over, which also served as a reminder why she went through all those timelines (because she loved Madoka) which is why she turned into a Demon in the end and forced a “happy ending”, not out of obsession or to ruin Madoka’s wish but because that’s what she thought she wanted.

#madoka magica #puella magi madoka magica #madoka magica: rebellion #madoka magica rebellion #kaname madoka #akemi homura #god madoka #demon homura #witch homura #don't mind her #god this was a long rant #my hand is cramping up but I've wanted to get this out for ages #thank you for anyone who took the time to read all this #and sorry to clutter up your dash #I have Very Strong Feelings about this series and the movie #can't wait for the fourth one to come out

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