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the-conversation-pod · 10 months ago

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Bottom Dementia: The Only Friends Episode.

Kicking things off for year 2 of The Conversation is our Only Friends episode. We brought back a friend of the podcast, David (@yankeebastard), to discuss the various cases of bottom dementia in this show, our thoughts on the sexual and social politics of the show, and how shipping and fandom culture complicated the entire experience our watches.

We'll end this episode with @ginnymoonbeam returning with us months later to see how we still felt about the show

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

0:00 - Introduction 1:20 - Only Friends and What We Liked 13:47 - What We Wanted from the Show 26:40 - Where the Story Breaks Down 38:40 - Bottom Dementia™ 47:38 - Do Not Take Only Friends Seriously 51:00 - Final Thoughts (Two Months Later)

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @ginnymoonbeam as transcriber, and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

0:00 - Introduction

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re you’re drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

1:20 Only Friends And What We Liked

Ben

And we're baaaack!

NiNi

Welcome, welcome to our winter series. It is so nice to be back with y'all—I'm saying back, but we're literally recording this on the day the Fall Lagniappe went up, because this is how we do it on this podcast.

This is the Bottom Dementia episode.

David

Oh my.

NiNi

[laughs] You can hear our special guest, say hi David!

David

Hiii!

NiNi

David is back with us!

Ben

You are literally back by popular demand, David, the people were like, when is he coming back?

[everyone laughs]

David

I need to stop fucking around with my Tumblr and just be on there.

NiNi

I'm not sure you want to be on there, like legit, but—[laughs]

We are here to talk about Only Friends! We're here to talk about the high highs, the low lows—and they were some lows for sure. I’m gonna let Ben do what he do.

So Ben: What is Only Friends about?

Ben

Oh man. How do I describe Only Friends now? So much of how I feel about it has been clouded by how it ended. Only Friends is a messy drama about a gay friend group nearing the end of college, as they deal with some of their… issues with sex and romance? At least that's how it felt at the beginning? Only Friends has this group of homos who hang out at their local gay bar. You've got Mew the virgin, Boston the slut, Ray the drunk, and Cheum who is sort of like the lesbian wrangler of their group.

Boston introduces this guy named Top to their group to flirt with Mew. Mew falls for Top—Boston was not expecting this, because he was just trying to smash with Top again. He causes a bunch of problems, but ends up in his own side romance with a very weird but kind of sweet boy who does not understand healthy boundaries, especially when it comes to digital space?

David

Oh lord.

Ben

Ray ends up involved with the singer at the bar—who can't sing that great, sorry First.

NiNi

God it was bad.

Ben

It harkens back to the kind of dramas that were happening around twenty-odd years ago, like Queer As Folk, Noah's Ark, and some other shows that Jojo referenced, some of which I haven't seen. But it struggles for me, because while all of those were fairly episodic in nature, this one decided to be a serial, and concerns related to the actor pairs and the economic viability of said actor pairs, I really feel muddled the waters on the back half? And so while there were a lot of really great stylistic moments in this, it ends up feeling kind of limp at the end, in a way that was very unsexy for me.

David and I watched it together, it was one of our Saturday shows. David, it's been a while since we had you on the show: why don't you give us some of your reactions, thoughts, and feelings about Only Friends?

David

Hm, let me see. Only Friends can best be described, in my personal opinion, as a ledger against the evils of monogamy… how unhinged gayness serves really only ever one person and that's the unhinged gay themselves—but hey, it's entertaining!... the apparent gay police state we live in, where if you do anything and it gets recorded, it becomes a psychodrama later… In short, I thought I would only end up not liking one person at the end of Only Friends? But the entire show can go through a recycler for me. That's where I am with it.

NiNi

So we've got Ben sort of general wet floppiness of it all, David saying ‘fuck them’ at the end. [laughs]

David

Yeah.

NiNi

[laughs] Let's see, where did I land on it? I had an incredibly cynical read on this show, and one of the reasons that I had a cynical read on this show is A) it was just fun; B) Ben, you talked a little bit about this hearkening back to some of the queer shows of the early 2000s. And that made sense for me, because the characters are of the here and now, but the creators, Jojo and Ninew and them, they’re my age. Well, slightly younger than me, but around that 40-year-old mark, elder millennials, so to speak. So that's the stuff that they were watching when they were the age that these characters are now. So it has like a weird juxtaposition, the show, where it's of the moment but also deeply nostalgic in some ways? So it was a very interesting experience for me watching it.

Like I said, I enjoyed being real cynical about the show, my reads on Top clearly got people mad pissed. [laughs] I was enjoying the show on the ‘everybody is awful’ tip, and then like one or two characters surprised me at the end by being not so awful… but I was having a good time right up until the end.

Ben

So why don't you go through the things that you enjoyed in the show then, since you came out of it less ambivalent than the rest of us.

NiNi

Less ambivalent is the word, because I was having a good time and then I was pissed. [laughs] There was no in between. So it was not really an ambivalent feeling, it was like a high high and then a crash.

Some of the things that I enjoyed, let's see. I enjoyed, low-key how terrible everybody was. So much of BL tries to make characters really likable. I'm not sure if the show was trying to make the characters likable—if it did, it failed, which was great for me because I didn't really like any of them [laughs]. Except for at the end, I liked Boston and I liked Nick, but other than that, I was just like ‘oh these people are terrible, yes, inject it into my veins!’ So I had a good time with that. I had a really good time with all the aesthetics, the style of the show, like you said throwing back to that early 2000s late 90s kind of vibe in terms of the set dressing and the set design, in the way that everybody's wardrobe played out, and just the entire vibe of the thing. Very Jojo, thoroughly enjoyed that.

I really enjoyed the acting. As much as coming down towards the end I didn't really enjoy the writing, the acting I thought was incredibly solid across the board. Not even so much the big acting, because there were like a lot of these big emotional moments, there was a lot of crying—I mean, First and Khaotung were in this, there's gonna be crying—but that's not the stuff that I was enjoying, it was the little subtle details. Like Khaotung’s playing Ray, Ray is an unrepentant drunk, and Khaotung really sold Ray being drunk all the time. It was like, little things that he was doing, it wasn't anything big, that really sold me on the fact that hey, this dude is not ever sober, and you can tell. I liked Book in this a lot. Which is weird, because I hated his character, I hated Mew so much. But I thought that Book really sold this kind of sanctimonious priggish character really really well, I actually really enjoyed that. And then of course Neo Trai and Mark Pakin, just, *mwah* chef’s kiss, fantastic acting work.

I think in terms of the enjoyment levels, that's where I landed. Everything else I'm a little bit more, hmm, okay, there's a positive and a negative about, but those were the things that I really really enjoyed.

Ben

David, before we get big into tearing this thing up, why don't you tell us the things you did enjoy along the way?

David

I actually did like the Melrose Place 90s aesthetic that was going on with the show.

NiNi

Yeessss, Melrose Place, that was it!

David

There is no way that anyone is going to tell me that these two people did not watch Melrose Place. Even some of their shots were very Melrose Place, Beverly Hills 90210-ish. Their little main area, where they would have the drama explosions were always at the bar, that was very much a Melrose Place thing. I enjoy unhinged—I'm trying not to say the other word—

Ben

Just go ahead and say it. You know you need to.

David

I enjoy a healthy dose of unhinged fa**otry. I live for it. More than likely, my second or third favorite performance in any show will be the show's most unhinged fa**ot I will love him. He could be evil, he could be killing people, but I'm gonna find something to love about him.

Ben

And who is that for you this time?

David

Oh Lord! Look: I love Boeing. Boeing was completely unhinged, I saw too much of myself in that boy. Unhinged. Sir you cannot hop like this. I need you to calm down. He completely sold that whole… soulless, like sort of just, gross performance. I love Boeing.

Ben

Mond Tanutchai was a gift that we were not expecting.

David

And that show did not deserve.

I thought the show was beautiful, it was colorful—me and Ben have had this conversation before, how since Vice Versa I've noticed that more. We don’t have this cream, beige, taupey writing-out of color, we've returned to this really rich tapestry, and I felt the show did that, which was also, I didn't realize, very 90s. So the color of the show, the way it was filmed, how it was produced, was great. And like NiNi said, it was great acting.

Ben

For posterity: David has caught up with BL very aggressively in the last year and a half. Thailand has been reintroducing rich color into their shows since the post ITSAY wave began, with You’re My Sky. Vice Versa does not get credit as the show that introduced color into this shit.

David

Fine.

NiNi

[laughs] Ben's like, fuck Vice Versa, fuck it forever.

David

I can’t even defend it.

Ben

That’s not me digging at you, just, for the people who've been following the timeline of BL, that does not go to Vice Versa. Absolutely the fuck not.

NiNi

Ben says no, you don't get to have this! You don't get to take this—[laughs]

David

That's fine, that's fair. But there are a few things that I thought were things I liked about the show, that, when I thought about, I went, ‘I did not like this as much as I thought I did.’ And the only character I liked at the end of this was the one who ended up being the unredeemable one to me. Because I kept thinking about it, and I got a lot of what he was going through. I thought he totally got vixen vamped by the weird, shitty, forced monogamy thing that the show was beating everyone up the head with, while at the same time simultaneously showing everyone how none of these characters are making it work.

Ben

Are you talking about Boston? Just for the sake of the listeners?

David

Yes, Boston.

NiNi

It was so weird to feel that coming off the show, but it wasn't coming off the show from the beginning.

David

Mhm.

NiNi

Somewhere like, into the third act is when that whiff, that eau de straightness started coming off the show. [laughs] Everybody started feeling the weird shift, they were like, ‘what is this? Are they—but they're not, Jojo wouldn't.’ You know what it feels like, it feels network-interferencey? That's genuinely how it feels. Because the front half of the show is so tight. It does not feel like the back half of this show. The back half of the show feels like somebody came in and said, ‘Nope you can't do this, do something else!’ and then they scrambled and tried to do something else that sort of lined up with what they had done before.

David

Yep, I completely agree.

13:47 What We Wanted from the Show

Ben

Before we talk about the weird shift that happens, let's talk a little bit about what we hoped from the show on the front end. Like when we sat down to watch the show, we were all coming at it from different places, what were we hoping for? Let’s start with you, NiNi, because you were dealing with a lot of other shit at the beginning of this show, so you weren't maybe watching it as intensely as you were by the time we got to the end.

NiNi

Oh no, I was fully here for a messy mess, that was all I was hoping for. Like David, I wanted to see some unhinged gays. I wanted something like Cruel Intentions or, like a Wild Thing. I wanted to have a good time. I didn't want to think too much, you know, that was my mantra for [laughs] a lot of this year, I don't want to think too much. And then I wind up thinking too much.

But that's what I was aiming for, I was aiming to have a good time, I was aiming to cackle. I was aiming to gasp. Before the show made the weird switch, I had thoroughly enjoyed being right about every character, but wrong about the narrative. [laughs] That was the thing that I really came to it for. I came here, I perched my little feet up on a pouf, I hit the button on the remote, and I was like, okay, show me the mess. And they started to, and then they pulled back from it.

Ben

What about you David? What were you hoping to get out of Only Friends?

David

I was expecting we were going to get way more of an adult, complicated thing about people's feelings and how sex played into it… Maybe we're gonna get a multi-couple, and this show was gonna do some stuff that no one else had done before. And at some point that collapsed.

Because I could see the ways that they could have pulled this off with certain characters, and showed some characters empowered to be that? But the full tilt boogie of Mew becoming the most sanctimonious, boring fucking part of this show and Top having the personality of cardboard, and Ray just being a drunk who clearly is never gonna learn his lesson, and Sand being a simp—what started out as being sort of complex characterizations, when we got to the very end, I was just sitting there like, what the fuck?

Ben

All right, I'm gonna be mean.

NiNi

Go for it!

Ben

I really hoped that this would be Jojo and them’s attempt to get less focused in their whole serial soap opera style dynamic, and I was really excited about the title cards early on, that they were going to have really strong internal arcs for each of these episodes? And that's not what we got. We got just an ongoing stream of mess from a bunch of maladjusted young people. I really hoped that some of the class things would play out because there were differing levels of wealth, and they did very little with that. I really hoped that a lot of these actors would get to play against their type for once, and do some really interesting stuff, and they did not. While some of these GMMTV boys are good, we have seen their body of work, and they are basically doing the same goddamn thing every motherfucking show.

David

Well! Go on, pastor!

Ben

First has only ever been a grumpy simp, in every fucking show he's in. Like, we love the boy! He's very expressive. He can be very funny. And it's kind of annoying that he has played like five different goddam versions of the sad sack simp now. I was really hoping that we were going to get to see him do something interesting with the fucking baseball bat, which implied that his character was going to make an active choice for once. That's the crux of the missing baseball bat stuff: the bitch who picks up a baseball bat? She's over it! She's going to smash something. She is committed to a choice, and destruction is the only thing that will sate her blood lust at this point.

[NiNi laughs]

And we never got that! Like, we literally end on First’s character calling himself a dog happy that he has a nice owner. What the absolute fuck was that?

Khaotung always plays the super-cute provocateur. They just made him super rich this time and let him be drunk all the time. Khaotung plays it well, but like we’ve seen basically this out of Khaotung repeatedly. I’m kinda over it.

And then poor Force. I think this show did a genuine disservice to Force. He does so much good work playing Top. Like, he fully committed. I understand the show’s choice to make him enigmatic because we were primarily reliant upon Mew’s POV, and because Mew could never feel secure in his connection to Top, they did not let the audience feel secure about Top. That is not a bad choice from an editing or directing standpoint, but it means that Top is so empty of a character. He only represents status to Mew.

I think Book is a fairly limited actor, and I think Jojo and them used him well as the sanctimonious bitch of this group. That was really cool in the front half. The fucking virgin who reads too many fucking books playing games they ain’t ready for and then winning stupid prizes as a result. That was fucking great, but it feels like the show wanted us to take the drama, as it happened from Mew's perspective, super seriously. But I cannot take a character like Mew seriously.

I don't think Lookjun was treated well in the show because Cheum is a goddamn mess of a character. Jojo was tweeting about her in a way that seems like she's supposed to be the lesbian wrangler saving these gays, but she is so mean to them.

And you get Boston. Boston did deserve some of the Ls he took, like when he got kicked in the chest and thrown into the pool with Mew jumping behind him trying to drown that motherfucker? He deserved that. That was some bullshit, you should have known better. However! Did Boston deserve to be the victim of revenge porn and blackmail three times? No. No he did not. I feel some kinda way about the way the back half of this show is just everybody saying ‘at least you're not as bad as Boston’ as everybody is doing nasty shit to each other.

David

In the name of the god of monogamy.

Ben

I'm like, goddamn, where is all of this fucking moral superiority coming from because Boston likes to get his dick sucked? What the fuck is wrong with the rest of you?

David

He never lied to anyone that he was having sex with; he told them, “Look, I don’t want shit. There's other people. This is what's going on.” And I felt like he was put on this pyre to monogamy that didn't even function—as a matter of fact, it was made even more glaring that it wasn't even working for the other characters because by the end of the show, they're all together—but barely. The fucking show ends with Mew flirting with another fucking dude in front of Top.

NiNi

Here's the thing for me. I see a way that this show carries all of the same narrative beats, but changes the tone, and works so much better for me. I don't actually have a problem with the couples ending up together. If you're aiming for a messy story where people end up in relationships with people who are the worst people for them, or they end up in a relationship where as we say in Trinidad, “Every bread have their cheese.” Jamaicans say, “Every pot have a cover,” you know what I mean?

[David laughs]

My favorite version of the MewTop relationship is Mew putting Top through hell because he's a piece of shit. Every time I got even a hint of Top being miserable—but still being there—and Mew deciding that he was gonna put Top’s balls in his purse and carry them around; I enjoyed that! I really enjoyed that ‘cause that's not a relationship dynamic you get to see in TV, but is incredibly realistic. There are so many, so many couples I know that are just like that and it's horrible to be around, but it's low key entertaining.

If the show had leaned into that, that would have been, strangely enough, more enjoyable, cause I don't need to believe that these characters [cutesy voice] ~are in love and they're going to be together forever~. I don’t need to believe that. I need to believe that they make sense with each other. And them making sense with each other is not a question of them being nice people or good people or being good for each other. It just seems that the way those two puzzle pieces fit together is great because they ain’t making nobody else miserable along the way.

Even the stuff that you were saying, Ben, about Sand being a simp and, as I said, having a humiliation kink. I have seen so many Sands and Rays end up together. It's exhausting to watch it happen because they get into a cycle and keep doing it over and over. But I mean, if we're only going through one iteration of the cycle, it could have been entertaining because we're not gonna have to see them doing the same shit over and over. We just see the disaster once and then we're like, “Ooh, child. Glad that's not me.”

That's where I wanted to land on this show, because that's where I thought they were going in the beginning. And then at the end, for it to descend into this kind of sappy, lovey-dovey, aren't-they-cute-and-sweet shit. That was the tragedy for me. That was what pissed me off. Not that they ended up together. The ship, couple, pair-branding, ship, whatever. I didn't care about any of that ‘cause as far as I'm concerned, I could see ways for those particular characters in those particular couples to end up together. But it felt so inauthentic. It felt unreal. It felt uncanny valley. It felt Stepford. I did not like it.

Ben

Exactly. The inauthenticity and the unearned feeling of it all is really what pissed me off. So when Mix’s character appears at the end and drops the line that Top said to Mew: “Can I be your friend, too?”

NiNi

And Top’s soul leaves his body? [laughs]

Ben

Like that would have landed if Top felt like a real person to me, but the show never gave us interiority for him in a way for me to care about how he feels in that moment. The show spent so much time its finale punching down on Boston for being disloyal sexually with people. And then like there's this goofy-ass victory lap. “Look at all these couples together!” Sand literally says, “I don't even know why I'm here.” Then Mix’s character walks in and it's like, oh, oh, there's trouble in paradise. I was like, “What the absolute fuck is the show?”

How do we spend so many episodes castigating Boston for enjoying sex, and then we end on this nonsense? It was so shitty and I'm still not over the way they ended things for Boston and Nick. I don't think Boston and Nick should have ended up together, but I really hate that they don't get a poignant ending that owns the complex incompatibility that is going to keep them from working out. Instead, we end on a final shot of Boston, alone and dejected on the side of a nondescript street. [big sigh]

26:40 Where the Story Breaks Down

Ben

Boston is not an ethical slut. He introduced a guy to his friends to fuck with his friends. He brought Top around just to fuck with Ray. And then he got pissed because Top got serious about Mew, and he didn't care about Mew or respect Mew, and so that's why he fucked Top.

But they don't really build into whatever the real beef is between Boston and Mew. We can project things into it. We can sit here and try to come up with meaning for why these people are together. Best I had was you just don't have a lot of options when you're homos. These are your friends. You stumble into a group of gays and you deal with it. That could be fine, but I really wish for all of the talk that this show was “only friends” that we really understood the function of this friend group and the nature of betrayal here, other than, “You fucked my boyfriend. Blah blah blah.”

NiNi

The back half of the show was missing a really good bitch. The front end of the show, Boston is the one out there pushing people's faces in their shit, and then the back half of the show he's like a little kicked dog. Boston is fucking terrible, but he was the truth teller, and that's what I was looking for, I guess, in the back half of this. And I hoped that Boeing would be that character and then that fizzled out.

David

I can tell you when I think the narrative shift actually happened, and I've thought about this. I feel like three or four characters did things that seemed wildly out of place for their character. Even though we knew that that recording was going to get out somehow—that was a foregone conclusion. It being Sand…did not feel right at all. Ray finding out about the recording, and releasing it, was totally where I saw that coming from. But Sand being the one that did it is when it had a narrative shift to me that did not make sense.

Ben

You know what? I think it is that episode, because the way Boston responded to being confronted by Ray.

David

Right! I was going to say that next.

Ben

Where did that demon in him come from? Why does he feel so strongly about Ray like that?

David

Right! The more I thought about it, that is the episode something happened, some conversation in the writers room. Something happened somewhere. I firmly believe when they originally wrote that somehow Ray got ahold of the recording, and he directly took that recording to Mew. It does not make narrative sense to me in the way that they've presented Sand that he would have done it.

And that whole episode and the episode after were people doing things that didn't make any sense for what we knew about the character up until then. Like when Boston loses his shit on Ray—didn't make any sense within the context of what was going on. Had he unloaded on Mew? Totally would have made sense.

Ben

That's what I wanted to see. I really wanted to see the crux of the differences between Mew and Boston really come to a head properly, and instead we get Boston yelling at Ray, “You're no better than me!” and then Mew decks Ray so that he can do his own ‘gotcha bitch’ moment with Top.

That was incredibly unhinged. I liked the follow up for that where Mew was like I'm gonna get all of these bitches, and then he concocts his plan to get Boston’s sex tape just to be morally superior to him. That tracked completely for me. [laughs]

David

Oh oh yeah.

Ben

But like that's also sort of where the huge breakdowns occur because they make that confrontation primarily about Mew getting one up on Boston and making Boston grovel, but I just feel like we never really understood what the deal was with the two of them, because clearly they both felt some kind of way about the other but they never really express it to the camera.

NiNi

That's the problem for all the fights that there were between Mew and Boston, I still don't have any sense of why they don't like each other.

David

The thing that bothered me the most about this? My favorite part of most of the shows is friend groups that are ride-or-die for one another. You don't fuck with them. That's my girl. That's my boy. We gonna help you creep to him, but there gotta be rules. Unhinged friend groups that are down for one another like Secret Crush [On You]. Those kids sincerely fucking loved one another. We've seen good friend groups.

This friend group. Why the fuck are y'all around one another? Mew doesn't respect Boston. Boston can't stand Mew. And at some point, you think they would have explained it. Like, maybe there was some guy that Mew liked that Boston fucked. I could see that in such a way that Boston doesn't even remember what dude it was.

NiNi

I could even see just Mew hating Boston because Mew thinks he's a hoe, and Boston responding to that. But that doesn't even become part of the conversation. They're in this friend group together, but they hate each other. Okay. I can see that happening, especially when you're in college. You end up hanging out with a bunch of people, including this one bitch you can't stand. That's a thing. It occurs.

Ben

I wish we had really gotten at the envy that Mew definitely felt about Boston.

NiNi

Yes! There's like a seething envy between the two of them, and not just on Mew’s side, on Boston’s side as well. What I thought it was going in was that there was this weird kind of love/hate where they're mad jealous of each other, but they're also mad judgy about each other.

Ben

If this were like an American show, where we thought we might be getting more seasons, the two of them would definitely have the weirdest raunchiest sex scene at like the 60% mark of a second season.

[NiNi laughs]

NiNi

Their beef predates Top, but the show made their beef about Top.

David

I feel like Boston has actually wanted to fuck Mew for awhile. I think, too, that he knows he can't get Mew; that's never gonna happen. Conversely, I think Mew wants to fuck Boston and cannot handle or deal with that, because he's created a veil around himself that is so righteous, so sanctimonious, that to even do that would shatter everyone's notions of who he is, and I think he turns that annoyance and anger about that situation towards Boston.

I think they both want to fuck each other and the other one doesn't realize that the other one wants to fuck them. But if you look at it from that viewpoint, everything else makes sense. That they are fucking attracted to one another and Mew can't let it happen because of the picture he has painted of himself, and Boston can't look like he wants it because he knows he can't get Mew.

NiNI

This is some of the stuff that I thought the show was playing with: self-image and our ideas about ourselves, and the way that we want to project certain things and maybe hide in our hearts what we really want. That's one of the things that I definitely thought the show was doing with Mew. Maybe Mew’s a hoe at heart, maybe he wants to be everything that Boston is, maybe he wants to fuck Boston. It's this weird thing, but it just never gets addressed. And then it gets glossed over entirely in favor of this being somehow about Top.

This shit ain’t about Top!

David

Oh no! Top is definitely an ambulatory penis.

[NiNi laughs]

As a great philosopher named Benjamin Tiberius once said: Dick is abundant [NiNi in unison] and low in value. This could have literally been any other dude. The primary powerful personalities in this friend group are Mew and Boston, and they are such strong personalities at opposing poles that they are constantly fracturing that group. Those other personalities in that group are not strong enough to counteract that.

Ben

Speaking of other personalities in that group, let's talk about Cheum and how much I fucking despise her.

NiNi

Do we have to talk about her? [laughs]

Ben

Oh yes we do!

David

I was ready to defend Cheum until Ben turns around and goes, “But she's, like, mean.” She's consistently mean. And she gets away with it because she's the girl of the group. And in a lot of ways, she's as much of a status hopper as fucking Mew is.

NiNi

She is the one who started pushing Mew towards Top. Boston brought him around, but she was the one who was like, “Don't you wanna sleep with a top-tier dude?”

David

Yup! Yup!

NiNi

Girl, you, what? At one point in time, I thought that she was the shipper analog in this show because she is treating these boys like her Ken dolls that she's leaving around on the lot. Girl, go fuck your girlfriend and leave these boys alone. That's how I felt about it at one point in time. And then when she's sitting crying on the couch because the police have busted up her little party because Ray loved that booger sugar.

Ben

As her friends are being literally arrested by the cops, she takes that moment to go the fuck off on Ray.

NiNi

She makes that whole moment about her.

David

Yup.

Ben

That was so gross. And then she tried to weirdly play solidarity with Boston at that moment? “You don't care about me and Boston.” Me and Boston!

NiNi

There's a you and Boston?

Ben

I wish Boston had been fucking Atom at that exact moment and looked up like, “Who said my name?”

[David and NiNi laugh]

David

You imagine Boston just looking up and going, “I felt a baleful presence. What the fuck was that?”

NiNi

[laughs]Oh my God.

Ben

It was so ridiculous. And she's like, “Oh, boohoo. These boys were mean to me.” Like, you are a lesbian crying on your girlfriend's shoulder because gay boys were mean to you? You ain’t strong enough. Get out of here.

David

And let's all talk about that. Now, bitch, don't pretend like you didn't know that Ray was basically Guns ‘N Roses in your goddamn party. Bitch, don't play with me. You lie to God. Don't lie to me. There ain't no way you didn't know that boy had pockets full of booger sugar, booze, ketamine. Don't play in my face like this, please.

Ben

Ray is also so embarrassing. You really wanted Mew that bad that you let him use you just to piss off Top. And then you spend half your time running around calling Sand a whore? Fuck Ray for always calling Sand a whore.

NiNi

And also, if he's gonna call you a whore, and you're gonna be okay with that because Sand is always somehow forgiving of that, then at least take the motherfucking money.

Ben

He did deserve financial compensation for having to put up with that entire friend group.

38:40 Bottom Dementia™

Ben

David, let's talk about Boston and how his bottom dementia drove him insane and that's why he had to fuck Top so bad.

[NiNi laughs]

David

I was the first one to use bottom dementia, because I said, “Look, sometimes if you are a primary top and you find someone who makes you want to bottom, that bottom dementia make you go crazy.”

He ain't going crazy over no bottom like this. This is a top who put it down good one time, and this boy is willing to risk it all. Friends, career, school. He just want the dick! Bottom Dementia is a real problem and affects 6 in every 10 gay men.

[NiNi laughs]

What do you think poor Nick was going through? He had Nick turnt. Nick was bugging cars because the dick turned him so good. Do you know what kind of bottom dementia you gotta be going through to bug someone’s car and just be casual about it?

Ben

Not only did he casually bug the car.

David

Girl, he listened. He watched.

Ben

And then recorded the encounter. He then edited the clip so that he could listen to it just to hurt himself.

David

Bottom dementia! It is trademarked. I want my coins, and I am open for TED talks on bottom dementia. I've had one case of bottom dementia in my life. I know what it looks like. I went halfway across the country because of bottom dementia. I knew it when I saw Boston. I was like, “Oh, that's bottom dementia right there, girl. That's all that is.” I was like, I understand him though, like my sis is going through it right now. Y'all gotta let bottom dementia play out. It's like a sleepwalker. You can't just jostle them out of it. [NiNi laughs] Like, if you see someone going through bottom dementia, what you do is you make sure they're not thirsty and they've eaten—or maybe not eaten, depending on what stage of the bottom dimension they’re in.

Ben

Gurl.

[NiNi laughs harder]

David

You know, you just be there for them, because they're gonna come up out that fugue, and they're gonna be like, “Bitch!” And then you go, “Bitch…”

Ben

I almost understood it when they were in that car and Top's like, “Fine, I'm gonna do it,” and then tried to send that man into orbit.

[NiNi laughs]

Aight, bro. Shit!

David

Let me tell you! That was not good for poor Boston, ‘cause that made the bottom dementia a lil crazier. So when he rejected homeboy—and that's how you cure bottom dementia. You just get rejected, or you get common sense.

[Ben and NiNi laugh]

Like in my own case, it came when I was on the plane. I was like, “Am I really flying halfway across the country for dick? [NiNi laughs] Is your girl really sitting in coach class for dick? Did I not get my snack for dick? [Ben laughs] What is happening? Wait, wait, wait. Am I on Spirit Airlines for dick?”

NiNi

[laughs] I’m choking…

David

Girl! I—look! Man, I got off the plane, I called my girlfriend, I was like, “Let me tell you something, bitch.”

She was like, “Mm-hmm.”

I was like, “Girl, I'm on Spirit.”

She's like, “Mhmm. Right!”

“In coach.”

“Mm-hmm. Yup.”

“Halfway across the country.”

“Mhmm, right again.”

“For dick?”

She was like, “Sir. Ma'am, my sister in Christ.”

Now I went and got that dick because, at that point, I mean I'm already there, you know, but, like… bottom dementia is a real thing, okay? Let me tell you, like, whether it's you realizing that you are in the throes of it in coach on Spirit Airlines [Ben and NiNi laugh] on a one o’clock flight—Bitch, it was one in the morning. What is my life choices?

Ben

You caught a red eye??

[NiNi continues laughing]

David

Girl! Ben, for dick, girl, bottom dementia.

Ben

Speaking of bottom dementia, let's talk about Atom

David

Gurl…

NiNi

Woo. Jesus, fix it. Fix it, Jesus.

David

Jesus, take the wheel, take the axle, take the car, like. Lord.

Ben

I don't mind the plot line. Atom being like, “Give me that dick. I want it.” Fine. Whatever. We've seen like three different cases of bottom dementia in this show now. You got Boston's for Top, Nick’s for Boston, and now Atom’s for Boston. And then there's also Sand for Ray—oh my God.

David

Girl! [Ben sighs]

NiNi

That ain’t bottom dementia. That’s something else entirely.

Ben

That's true. And so, it was expected. Cheum storming over there and whooping Boston's ass ‘cause she thought he laid hands on her brother, but not calling the cops on him? That was her being nice. I don't blame her for being as live as she was, but I do blame Mew. Because Mew was supposed to be smart—and definitely knew better—and just wanted to see Boston punished.

And for as smart as he is, as much as he reads, choosing to let Boston go down that way is fucked up in ways that I just can't properly articulate, because there's no way you think it's okay for Boston—after you've helped him get out from under some sexual blackmail—would think that he would do that to somebody else. Let alone, Cheum’s brother. And letting that go down the way he did was, for me, the kind of unforgivable shit that a character can do.

It tracks with the character because Mew is a mean bitch, but was too fucking far from Mew.

Ray! Ray is drunk. I don't care about Ray.

David

Girl, Ray didn't know where he was. They said get in the car, we rolling. And Ray was like, okay. He put his flask in his pocket with his booger sugar and he got in the car. Ray barely knew what day it was.

Ben

But Mew definitely knew that Boston didn't do that to Atom, and he still let that go down. That was gross for me, and I hated the little perfunctory apology she gives Boston about that whole situation and then two scenes later it's like, “Okay, time for you to apologize to everybody for all the shit you did.” I'm like, “[scoffs] is? Is that how this is going down?

NiNi

No, you see. You ain't got smoke for Cheum over how that shit went down with Boston over at him, but I got smoke for that bitch, and here's why. It is one thing to be live about somebody you think did something to your little brother. Be live about that. 100%. But the way she was live? The shit that she said?

“Oh, my brother was straight before. What did you do to him?” Come the fuck on?

David

Her whole verbiage of that… as one of the gay men near her, I would have been like, “Bitch, what is that supposed to mean? Ain't nobody gonna check this bitch about what she just said?”

NiNi

That scene was when I was over Mew. I was over Cheum. Them two were completely out of control.

David

Because of another little BL group I'm in, I started doing all this research on… trigger warning guys, sexual assault and date rap drugs and all that… and it's like a major issue there. And I thought the way that this show touched on that did everyone involved a disservice.

Cheum, when her brother said he lied, she should have beat his ass in the middle of the kitchen. Why would you lie about something like that? Do you know the consequences of that kind of lie? You, identifying as a straight man, told me that one of my gay friends raped you.

Ben

I really hate that she reassured her brother.

David

When he lied, I decided, “Oh no, Atom is done.” We don't lie about that. I don't care what the fuck his reasons are. That shit was foul.

Ben

I do not like Cheum. I do not like Atom. I do not like Mew. I don't like any of these bitches! I was watching this like I was an older patron at Yo's bar. “What’s going on with the twinks these days?”

“Oooh, girl, let me tell you…”

“Oh, Lord. And then he did what?”

“Girl, he punched his own friend in the bar so he couldn't out that man, just so he could go fuck him up at home.”

“Damn, that bitch is crazy.”

That's how I was watching this whole show.

47:38 Do Not Take Only Friends Seriously

Ben

The thing here is, the show was just meant as entertainment. Do not take this show seriously. A lot of us like to write meta. We like to really engage with the stories and stuff. But, as David and I are fond of saying to all of the gays around us when they ask us for help and then don't do what we tell them they need to do to get out of their situation: “I can't want more for you than you want for yourself.”

This show does not want a lot for itself. I'm not going to pretend like this show was deeper than it was. This was a fun romp where a bunch of the BL boys got to cut loose for a little bit and have a good time, and that's totally fine. If you watch it as just the BL boys and some of their friends got to do a cracked-out, messy gay show, and we got to have some fun moments, it's fine.

Are we going to want to engage with this more seriously as a lens into queer life? I don't know. Like, there are some things to talk about, and I think there's some great shit to talk about with Nick and Boston. But overall? Mmmm…It’s fine. It's fun while you're watching it. There is no need to return to it.

NiNi

I just wish, and this is the thing that I try not to do with shows, but I think in this case it's justified. I just wish it was something else. For whatever reason, it's very clear that something in this show got changed during its run, and I just wish that they had been able to make the show that they clearly envisioned at the start.

Ben

I think we thought the show was going to be broader than it was, in terms of interacting with the queer experience. And it's fine if that's not what the creators intended. I feel like that's something we wanted from it. I don't think it's something that was necessarily promised to us. The only thing that was promised to us that we didn't get was Sand and his motherfucking bat.

NiNi

Now, you know how I feel about pilot trailers, Ben. I do not trust them.

Ben

It's less about that he didn't actually wield the bat. It's that the character pitched out there seemingly had a stronger sense of self than Sand ended up having in the final, and that irks me. Where is the version of Sand that was mad as hell and took a bat clearly about to go break something? Bring him back!

David

The whole narrative shift is so weird and awful, and Sand and Boston are probably the two biggest victims of it.

Ben

When did the show shift for me? The moment Sand called Ray his 25th hour. I was like, “Oh, what the fuck just happened??”

NiNi

Eww….

Ben

We don't have to wring meaning out of this experience. Like, we had a good time. We got some laughs. Mond kissed all of the boys. Whatever.

51:00 Final Thoughts (Two Months Later)

Ben

Hello again, folks. We apologize for the abrupt end to the last section. When we were recording this with David, we ran into an unfortunate hour and a half long string of technical difficulties, and some of the recording was lost, and we do not have the capacity in us to try and rebuild the end of that segment.

So, couple of months away from Only Friends, NiNi and I are back together, and we brought another guest with us, and we're going to wrap this up. So, everyone welcome Ginny back to this side of the podcast, Ginny, say “hello.”

Ginny

Hey!

Ben

What I kind of want to talk about now, a couple of months away from the show, what from Only Friends, if anything, sticks with you at this point?

Ginny

Disappointment. [laughs] Really, Boston and Nick as characters and, what I hoped, and was ultimately frustrated by in their stories. But I did, really, love so much of what was done with their characters, and when I think about the show, it's mostly the two of them—both separately and together—that I think about.

Ben

What about you, NiNi? You had an ongoing rankings board for 12 weeks on this show. What sticks with you from it at this point?

NiNi

Definitely Boston. That's been haunting me for a while, but it also, oddly enough, Top. Because I feel like my conception of Top was more interesting than what the show gave us, and so I've been stuck with a lot of Top headcanons, which is a weird place for me to be in. They missed a trick, I think, when it came to Top, and the whole TopMew dynamic.

Ben

For me, nothing about the show itself sticks. Only thing that I think of when I think about Only Friends was Neo did a really good job, and I really liked Mark. And that's not great.

I think whether it was spoken or not, a lot of us hoped that this show would join the gay canon, and it doesn't. The way this show lets down its audience on the sexual politics towards the end is truly unforgivable and it has made me think less of Jojo. I don't know how much of this is him, or how much of this is the powers that be at GMMTV, but it was kind of weird, with as online as Jojo is, just sort of laughing about how Boston's a fugly slut. And that's where, sort of being where the show ends, being really surprising for me from him, ‘cause I thought he had a stronger grasp on his characters.

I really hate that one of the shows we were most anticipating ends up being barely worth mentioning? It sucks, because, I think, a lot of the talent in this really put themselves out there and pushed themselves beyond their comfort zones. It really sucks how flat Only Friends feels by the end, because the early parts of watching this were just so fun. The need to make bolder and more risque or more interesting storytelling seems to be at odds with whoever has the final say on what goes into these stories, and Only Friends seems to be a very obvious victim of that.

NiNi

It's a show that should have been fun. In the end, it was not fun. I would give this show seven and a half, and the half point is for the stylistic elements. I'm sad to be rating Only Friends a seven and a half because up to episode 6 this was probably like a 9.5 show for me.

Ben

Ginny, what about you?

Ginny

I still have to think about my final rating. Because yeah, the first half and a bit—fully 9.5. And then by the end I want to put it down in the 7 zone. I think at the moment it's sitting at 8.5 on my MyDramaList, but as time has passed and I haven't gotten over the things that made me sad about it, I think it's going down to at least an 8, and it may sink further as time passes and my bitterness pickles.

Ben

Pickles is a good term for it. It's a 7. It is not an easy show to recommend. It is a show, that if you're going to tell someone to watch it, you have to give caveats for. You have to explain that something is going on politically with this show in terms of what it was allowed to do, and how that seriously impacts the end. Anytime you have to recommend a show with a pamphlet explaining things, or learning people about things, it lowers for me immediately.

If this was any other creator, they should have gotten a 5, because I was Gay Mad about this show.

Ginny

Yep.

Ben

I was not expecting to be Gay Mad at Jojo. The fact that this is Jojo and NiNew, and I liked the cast, and it feels like meddling and not necessarily the creators per se, is the only reason this gets a 7.

NiNi

7, 7.5, 8, so that's an average of a. 7.5.

Ben

You know what it is? It's a chop!

NiNi

It's a chop, and I am so sad to be saying that about this show, about a Jojo show. So sad, but that's where we are.

Ben

And on that note, we will see you all in the next episode—which one is it, NiNi?

NiNi

I don't know. Whatever ends up happening ends up happening.

Ben

Oh, God, the next episode is Swoon.