#why would you think that he deserves to be shipped with characters who don't treat him like he treats them?

[noperopesaredope]

I recently watched a video talking about what your favorite Mouthwashing ship says about you (spoilers: most of them are bad), and one thing I explained in the comments that I think is important to explain to certain people (in general with a lot of fandoms, tbh) is that a lot of shippers in the fandom understand that these relationships would not be good and are in fact deeply unhealthy, but perhaps that's the point.

Like, most of the Jambone x Curly shippers I've seen don't like the ship because it's cute or good, but because it's narratively interesting and would be extremely compelling to see. I honestly get it even if I'm not super interested in it. Jildo and Curly already have an extremely interesting and unhealthy relationship dynamic. It is heavily implied that JarJar acts very emotionally abusive towards Curly, belittling and manipulating him frequently and likely damaging his confidence and ability to stand up to people. But he is also obsessed with Curly in a very fascinating way.

Meanwhile, Curly has not only been friends with Jimbo for a long time, but has a fatal flaw of being too loyal and passive for his own good. As many have said, Curly is like a golden retriever in both a good and bad way.

Curly is Jackass' victim and enabler at the same time, which is why he is one of my favorite characters in the game. You both feel bad for him but also understand that he really fucked up and a lot of stuff is his fault. His most endearing traits are also some of his worst traits. Again, the golden retriever comparison is very accurate. He is friendly and loyal and believes the best in everyone (and very cute), but that loyalty and belief in everyone are also his fatal flaws.

He enables Jello because he thinks that there is good in him, and like a dog, he sees no wrong with most people no matter what they do (until it's far too late). I can't remember the fic I saw this in, but one good line I saw once was something along the lines of: "You believe in people and see nothing wrong with them no matter what until they abandon you at the park in the middle of the night." Curly sees no wrong in his friend because that's the type of person he is, and while it can be cute, it's also dangerous.

It can also often be detrimental to himself, as we see Juice be cruel to him as well, yet Curly excuses it as just Jizz being Jizz. He doesn't see anything wrong with the way he is treated, making him become desensitized to Jive's behavior and seeing it as not a big deal.

I think Curly's status as both victim and enabler would be interesting under the context of an abusive romantic relationship. There is an even greater power imbalance present, and Jojo may do a lot worse things as a result and be a lot more controlling and manipulative. He could be more physically and verbally abusive, make more threats, and even be sexually abusive (since he is canonically a rapist already, and hates Curly more than he hates Anya, thus he would probably put more aggressive hate into it). The whole relationship would be horrible and disturbing, but also interesting to see.

I love fics exploring their unhealthy friendship, so seeing it as an unhealthy romantic relationship could be even crazier to see.

~~~~~~

There's also the nuances of Anya x Curly. Most people ship it specifically in the context of AUs where Curly actually stands up for Anya and helps her out. Their dynamic as characters could be really cute, especially if he puts in the work to protect her.

I personally find the potential of post-crash Anya x Curly to be interesting as hell. I generally find their non-romantic dynamic post-crash to be interesting enough on its own, but I also think it could be absolutely crazy if they developed romantic feelings because those feelings would develop from some really unhealthy places for the most part.

I see Anya as someone who still holds some resentment towards Curly, but also sees herself in him and feels he doesn't deserve what happened to him. Maybe at one point seeing him go through something similar to what she went through might feel a little cathartic, but anything after that is too much to her. She is also his primary caretaker and a nurse, so she feels responsible for his wellbeing and wants to take care of him. She also seems to read and talk to him a lot, which probably feels nice because she can have some company while also being safe because Curly is not in a position to be able to hurt her. Anya doesn't exactly develop proper feelings for him per say, but she still uses him as a bit of an emotional crutch of sorts and becomes very attached to him because of it.

Meanwhile, Curly feels deeply guilty for not helping Anya and feels she deserves better. He believes she has no reason to care for him, but chooses to anyway, and thus he is extremely grateful towards her, possibly idolizing her to a certain degree. He slowly develops his own weird feelings, seeing himself as unworthy of her kindness and wanting the best for her, while also being dependent on her, even if it's in a more direct way.

They never get together or even realize that they themselves have feelings for each other since those feelings are #messy, but do form a weird codependent relationship of sorts. I've seen some cool fanart of Anya hugging/holding onto post-crash Curly, and it made me think about the potential this whole dynamic has and how unhealthy it could be, both for Anya and Curly. I believe they would not work out or be healthy (though probably better than Jazzy x Curly), but could be interesting narratively.

~~~~~~

Basically, what I'm trying to explain is that a lot of people don't ship certain Mouthwashing ships because they think it's good or want to romanticize it, but because it is narratively compelling and can explore complex dynamics more.

[endlessburningdarkness]

i now forgiveness is a trope and its all wish fulfilment, but even like semi-realistically, shen jiu would not forgive nor fall in love with lbh after lbh ripped off his limbs, tortured him for years and/or murdered yue qingyuan. torture is abuse, just bc you can justify what lbh does with "sj abused him first!" or "sj deserved it!" it doesn't change the fact that it's abuse. nor does it change the effects of abuse. neither lbh or sj become better people after being abused, they become worse.

sj after torture and de-limbing would not be ready to admit his wrongs or want to forgive. he would be even more viciously certain he was right to try and kill lbh as a child. even if lbh healed him and found out the truth and even apologised, he would not fucking forgive. he would hate lbh, he would spend the whole time trying to kill himself, drive lbh insane or hurt lbh in new and terrifying ways. i also can't see him giving a single fuck about any other person. he would hate them all.

qiu haiting for throwing his mercy back in his face, yingying for fucking marrying the man who burned down their sect etc. he might even try to and succeed in killing some of lbhs favoured wives as revenge if he plays the long game. letting lbh think the past is water under the bridge until he lowers his guard and murdering his wives so he knows how it feels to lose someone you love. none of this "he dissolved the harem for me, i guess i have to take his cock now uwuw" shit. shen jiu's soul is full of knives and he is constantly using them. why assassinate his character this way? even if luo binghe grovelled or bought yqy back to life or turned back time, shen jiu would not forgive.

and that's the wonderful horrific tragedy of this ship. even if luo binghe tried to make amends at some point, it just wouldn't work. sometimes there's just too much damage. some things can't be forgiven. some things you can't move past. embrace that. like why would shen jiu forgive twenty years of torture and the murder of his brother? just because luo binghe treated him nicely for a few months...

please let shen jiu be his awful, excruciating self, please i am begging you. let him be angry at his torturer! let him be vicious and unforgiving and hateful, that's what's so good about him! he's not the typical graciously forgiving victim. he never forgave qjl, why the fuck would he forgive lbh? let him set the palace and lbh on fire! let shen jiu be himself.

also don't take this as a personal slight, i know why people enjoy the forgiveness trope and its absolutely fine to like it. this is just my take on the trends i have observed in bingjiu fanfic and my own opinion.

[wellofdean]

Sorry ,for me personally, it has to be out loud acknowledge to even remotely make up for how badly they treated fans over the years, the out loud queerbaiting in one breath and mocking in the next. The in text gay jokes, sexism and homophobia. The digs at their own fans.

They want the credit without having to do it. Again. They want the pat on the back they need to earn it this time.

Years of baiting for views and profit needs a payoff imo. Sorry people downplaying how important the canonization of this ship in particular is just hurts to see over and over. Stop letting them off the hook please. You deserve more. We all do.

It’s important. It does matter.

The cas/destiel hope baiting continued with the Winchesters and that’s why I’m at a put up or shut up moment with Jensen and the writers. He and Danneel kept the hype up every week that the show was airing all the while knowing cas doesn’t even get a name drop. He’s not even hinted at. Mary/john paralleled destiel so many times yet refused to call it want it was.

They could have shut it down week one, they interacted on tweeter a lot during airing and knew what fans thought there was going to be an acknowledgment or hint that never happened. They are smart people, they saw the speculation and hype but didn’t step in with a gentle ‘sorry guys this is about the new crew’ they fanned the hope instead with ‘something big happens’ that was just dean meeting the new team.

Loved the Winchesters as a show, sad it got dropped cause I loved the new cast so much. That said the baiting hurt and wasn’t necessary, the show was good.

Everyone is looking back with rose colored glasses and rewriting history. But things were ugly with the spn team/cast/writers at times. The homophobia was pretty out loud in a way it was allowed to be in the early 00s. They’ve grown and that’s wonderful but it still happened.

They need to earn the praise they want imo. No hate! Glad you are happy! just feels a little unfair to say we should all let them off the hook again and be happy with nothing while praising the benevolent straights. Just my two cents 😅💚💙

I want to answer this sympathetically, because I know it's disappointing that no one has been willing to just say "Dean and Cas are gay for each other" out loud, and I don't think there are many people in this fandom who picked up what the narrative was putting down, and were not disappointed in the finale for LOADS of reasons, only one of them being that Dean never had the chance to acknowledge what Cas said to him. I understand your feelings, my anonymous friend, I really do. I too found the end of Supernatural deeply frustrating, because they managed to erase the meaningful journeys of every single character, not just Dean, though what they did with Dean was the worst. I completely understand wanting them to JUST FUCKING SAY IT. I do. I get you. I simply do not agree.

My argument, which I have made many, many times, is that what you want is THERE in the narrative. They made Cas Dean's ride or die, they made it obvious that Dean can't carry on without Cas -- that the loss of Cas means Dean loses his will to live. That was explicit. They made it clear that more than anyone else, EVEN Sam, Cas is essential to him. They structured the narrative around Dean and Cas's emotional beats. They let Cas say the obvious thing out loud, and then showed us Dean behaving exactly as Dean would in a situation like that -- in the midst of his existential crisis about who he is and whether he has ever had free will, and with the world falling around them -- they showed us Dean unable to speak, unable to respond but overwhelmed with emotion. Like, remember that when Mary died when Dean was four, he was unable to speak? Is it really so hard to imagine that he loves Cas with all his heart? To read love in Dean's watery eyes, and the way he chokes down his heart and begs Cas not to do this? Not to being saying goodbye? I mean... I CAN DO THAT MATH. Literally everything about the story supports it. IT IS THERE.

Fandom always argues: if Cas were a woman, we wouldn't have any questions, so what I am just wondering is, why do we have questions again? Is it because we (homophobically) can't just see it for what it is because it's gay? Because, when it's gay we lose our ability to interpret narrative, and we need to be told, like we are 5 years old, what's happening in a perfectly obvious story? Or, is it a skill issue? Is it because we need the creators of the story to affirm our interpretation? We need the actors to just TELL US what they meant when they did that thing with their faces? Do we need their permission to understand it for what it is?

I've said many times that calling what happened on Supernatural 'queerbaiting' because no one ever made out or fucked on the maps table is really offensive to me actually. Don't you know that there are queer people in this world who never get to live their truths? Who just ache and yearn and want, and never get to have? Like, that there are in fact queer people who are afraid to say what they feel, or who don't understand or embrace who they really are and what they really need until it's too late? Are those not QUEER EXPERIENCES? I love Dean and I love that story because it's queer as hell and it makes ME feel seen, because I am like him! I am a queer person of his age who didn't ask myself those questions seriously enough in time! My own queerness is very fucking real, and it is UNLIVED. That HAPPENS to actual queer humans, and like, it's not queerbaiting when it's just queer, but didn't tell you the queer story YOU wanted it to tell. You saw years of tease? I saw years of choices, and love, and accretion of deep wells of emotion. I saw a clear romance, and a character becoming. It was a story I needed, AS A QUEER PERSON.

And the Winchesters was just joyful if you went in with that understanding of the previous story. It was like getting an A+ in Supernatural week after week from Dean himself. I can accept that the stars didn't align for Cas/Misha to come back in the first season, accept that if he were coming back, it needed to be more than a cameo to make it right, and that it didn't work out. I am so sad it was cancelled, but I can accept that it was leading someplace it didn't get to go. That's not queerbaiting, either! It's telling a story that was aborted, and I think if you don't see that, then that is DEFINITELY a skill issue.

I'm not looking back with rose coloured glasses; Supernatural is fresh in my mind. I watched it again without the internal pressure of expectations that aren't going to be met, and let it tell me what it was really doing all along. I am happy. It's a really compelling, deeply romantic, deeply queer story. I don't need permission from anyone involved to think that, and I don't need it explained to me. I understand wanting it to just be fully explicit, but I would not trade the story it did tell for a simpler, less engaging one, that asked less of me. I love it very much AS IT IS.

And, please: point me to this fabled abuse of fans. I have never really seen an example of it that is not easily debunked with a little bit of context.

[goodluckclove]

Some Loose Thoughts on Queer Rep (Specifically Aspec Rep)

(Just in advance I'm going to dunk on Alastor from Hazbin Hotel like a lil' bit, as a treat. Mainly the team that made him and what he represents, but still. If that's rage bait for you, I suggest maybe dipping out now)

I have a theory that queer media needs both queer characters and queer genre characters. The difference is very important.

I think a queer character would be a character in a story about their queerness. For some reason the only two characters I could think of are the guy from Love, Simon (What was his name again?) and the protagonist from Rubyfruit Jungle, which should express the weird and complicated relationship I have with this particular archetype.

Queer stories centered around queerness are definitely needed, but at the same time I feel like we're just starting to come to terms with the desperate need for the alternative, which are queer characters in genre media that contain overarching plots larger than their sexuality. Not separate, necessarily (Their queerness certainly influences things), but just beyond. This is more accessible for a variety of artists, which is also the reason why it can be a flop or a massive success.

We get more of this than ever for gay and sapphic characters, as well as some trans folks and occasionally non-binary. It's definitely way less seen in aspec characters, and even less respected. I started thinking this way because the internet is flooded with references to fucking Alastor from Hazbin Hotel as an aroace character and - like - god, I don't get it.

Like you can have your serial killer comfort character, that's fine. But latching onto him as representation for the entire aspec community when he was only confirmed to be aroace through a reference in a livestream and the weakest joke onscreen is pretty disheartening. It definitely reads like this part of his identity was added pretty late in his character development, and by a team of people that didn't seem to consider what the response and reaction would be and how they'd handle it.

I also wish the newest aspec icon in media wasn't created by a team so adamant on encouraging shipping culture above actually respecting the identity they've decided to provide representation for. Like I see it means a lot to people to have an aroace character doing something cool in a fun TV show that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with their identity. Then there's like four other people right behind that person who really wants that person to be romantic and fuck.

And like, yeah, aroace people can do that sometimes. It's a spectrum, I know. But can't we start with a baseline representation before providing proof of fluidity?

I just think we deserve better. Like a character who in the media is established to be aspec, and people are like "great" and move on to fight robots or do magic or whatever. And the person can be morally grey, or even a total dick, but like I'd personally prefer something with a little more depth than Hot Topic genericism.

Like don't get me wrong, I'll take some sort of eldritch horror as my representation, but...make him at all horrifying? Like everyone talks about how he has Eldritch powers, which I know to mean unfathomable and maddening. But I've seen everything he does in the canon of the show and it is both incredibly fathomable and makes me feel normal and sane. Yog-Sothoth this man is not.

But yeah, I don't think there's a solution here besides more aspec artists creating aspec characters in their work. That way people can still like Alastor if they want, but he's not like the only viable option in terms of representation in the media. Let me see lovingly-crafted cool guys and dipshits and chaos goblins and little babies and True Horrors, all of whom have varying degrees of distaste or indifference towards sex and romance.

Do it. We need it. Please.

[fivewantscoffee]

So, Five x Lila. I need to get this out of my system so I can maybe finally move on:

I don't like the ship.

I don't like the characters together. I find the pairing a baffling one, and I don't like what it does to the show (and characters) either.

First of all, that wasn't Lila. I don't know who it was, but it wasn't the woman we saw off at the end of S3, or even the one we started off S4 with.

It just wasn't her.

You can blame trauma, or six years of being on the move. That's going to change a person, for sure, but this wasn't about giving Lila any character development.

It was about giving Five a love interest.

Because that life? Yeah. I could see it for Five. I could see him deciding to settle down and take life slow, I could see him being sweet and domestic with a partner should he have one. After he's had some time to heal, now that he's finally free of the apocalypse, I could see that for Five.

But Lila? She was unhappy in her marriage, at least partly because the domestic, stay-at-home-mum life has proven to be something that doesn't fulfil her. She wants more out of life, which is why "bookclub" happened, which is why she ended up in the subway with Five in the first place.

And okay. For the sake of argument, let's go with this. Let's say Five x Lila happened so they could cope with their situation. It was survival, like Lila said. If we were going to have to endure this bad, messy plot point anyway, (which we didn't, we really, really didn't), it should at least have been treated with the seriousness it deserves.

Because, Five? The complete, callous lack of remorse on his part? What the fuck was that?

Even if you pick through the crumbs and try to make it make sense, this wasn't a romance. At best it was survival, and coping, and kind of a tragedy all at once. Five shouldn't be picking fights with Diego. He shouldn't be acting like a spurned twenty-something-year-old.

And yeah, characters can be flawed and in the wrong, but why like this? This didn't feel like Five to me. He is brusque and, when looked at it from a certain angle, I can see why some would call him selfish (which I don't necessarily agree with, but that's a different conversation), but under all his layers, he does love his family. To me, that's the core of his character and has been since S1. Everything he's done, he's done to ensure their survival, then when he agreed to give up in S3, he was content to simply die by their sides.

So, you're telling that this Five, the one we've known and followed for three seasons, had a fling with Lila and didn't even feel guilty or conflicted about it? You're telling me loved this woman, yet was willing to keep her from her family, her children?

"Five is selfish" "Five is tired" "Five is finally moving on"

No. Not like that. To me, the Five from previous seasons (S2 specifically, because that's where a lot of it goes wrong) is only "selfish" in that he wants his family to survive and is willing to go to any lengths to achieve that. He's not exactly compassionate about Allison and Viktor having to leave Ray and Sissy behind. And yeah, he leaves Diego in the asylum because he doesn't want him messing with the timeline.

Is he in the wrong for that? Answer this any way you want, but I don't think it matters to Five. Does he want his siblings to be happy? In my opinion, of course he does, but they're not going to be happy if they're dead.

That's not the same as what S4 does. Not by a long shot. Five cares deeply about those he loves, and granted, he is pretty bad at showing it, but he does care.

He nearly worked himself into the grave trying to solve the first two apocalypses, with little regard for his own well-being. When he realised a third apocalypse was happening, he didn't say fuck it and continue his Pennsylvania retirement road trip... he immediately dropped everything to try and fix it.

So how did we get to S4 Five, who got with his brother's wife, found a way home, didn't tell Lila, AND THEN, after he finally gave her the notebook and they went back, he acts like that?

Yeah, no. That's not my Five.

Also, five x lila happening isn't Five moving on. If anything, it's how he copes with the situation they're in. That's just his Delores 2.0.

Anyway, all of this is moot because the fact of the matter is, they chose to make this happen. Five and Lila getting stuck in the subway together for seven years didn't have to happen.

I don't know.

This used to be a show about family. It also used to be a show about the effects of child abuse on this group of siblings. This started to fall to the wayside after S1, but the family aspect of it still remained.

At its core, tua has always been about family, so what was the point of making S4 at all if this is what they were going to give us?

It's not just Five x Lila. They messed this up across the board, with how flippantly the absence of Sloane and Ray was treated, how shallow and surface-level all of the rest was. They gave us some crumbs with Klaus and Allison, but they couldn't even do that without retconning their entire relationship. That's not even mentioning the ending. The Hargreeves all sacrificing themselves in the end could have worked, but this was not the way to do it.

Anyway, this rant is over. S1 Five, you'll always be famous to me.

[sillyguyhahahhaha]

I hate stolas so much its not funny

stolas is the worst shitty piece of ass junk I've ever seen.

Hes manipulative, imp racist, self entitled, blind, sadistic, blame throwing, immature, careless, saddest, abuser, guilt tripper in this whole fucking show.

i hate how people actually like & still defend him when he disregards blitz feelings & blames him for not coming to save him when he literally had his capable employees help.

wouldn't him meeting Val just match so well?

like look ok boo hooo you had a shitty wife, mean daddy, daughters hates you & your depressed. ok i don't give a fuck how about that? look at other characters like imps

blitz accidently killed his own mother, almost killed his best friend, dad always hated him, now all his living family hates him, had a ton of shit & yeah made some bad choices but Cleary has a much worse life & where supposed to feel bad for someone like stolas? I don't fucking get it & theirs a leaked episode that his daughters finds anti depressants & guilt trips him to make us all feel bad for sad owl boy. I don't want to fucking watch that, there's nothing sad about it Hes an ass hole.

He doesn't deserve this shit ton of sympathy that people constantly give him, and why is blitz always the bad guy for being so mean & careless about him when stolas literally made it only about sex, called him "toy" like wtf? and expected him to drop everything to save him because his workers weren't good enough to his liking? like no fuck you stolas and fuck everyone on the team who wrote this or agrees with this, i really just hate you all if you think its sad owl boy. I don't want see any shitty comments like "your mean he does have it hard some people have different types of hard life's" yeah I don't give even a atom of a fuck if I could I would literally kill off stolas.

from episode 1 he literally disregarded that he was in danger & he's been in multiple dangerous situations with no help from stolas besides 1 time ever but stolas expects blitz to just drop everything any time for him? even worse he is literally racist he clearly seems imps as a lower being, treats his imp butler like shit? talks to hardly any other imps unless its some kinky shit & had to reallllyyy loon out the word "oook my little 'imp~'" like I see no redeeming qualities about him he could try to care more for his daughter as well but its always "nooo he's to busy!" no he's fucking not, I've seen bad relation ships & you can still tend to you're child he's just a shitty dad whos to immature to hold any relation ship.

summery: I want stolas to be cut from the series at this point

[acotar-taylorsversion]

Another Little Rant

I'm sorry, but not everyone wants Lucien.

Not his court. Not his brothers. Not Tamlin. Not his mate.

Rhys only puts up with him for the sake of an alliance. And I think Feyre only keeps him around because of the friendship they once had. Azriel hates him and I don't think Cassian, Mor, and Amren care enough to about him to really say anything.

This is why he's finding his own place and home with the Band of Exiles. Hence the name.

Now, don't go thinking I hate Lucien. I can hear y'all now thinking I'm the worst person because I don't put him on a pedestal. I don't particularly care for him. I only see him being beneficial to Vassa's story, because I do think the small moments between them are cute and they might actually mean something. I'm convinced that this is one of the very few reasons why she has kept him around this long. I never found Lucien as this exciting, funny character. I almost put down acotar when it first came out because I found Tamlin boring and Lucien annoying and I was convinced Feyre was either gonna end up with the boring one or the annoying one (but then Rhys came along 🥰). The only thing that got me through the beginning of acomaf was because I could smell feysand from a mile away. And don't even get me started on the end of that book.

I don't see the appeal in elucien at all. I'm convinced the only reason people support that ship is because of the fact that they are mates and they have this unusual obsession with Lucien. Don't know why, honestly. I don't know how people can read where Elain literally loses her newfound boldness, shrinks into herself, and literally hides in the kitchen refusing to pour water in a cup to make him tea and think "omg I can't wait for them to fall in love 😍." Like, if Sarah makes them endgame then I will be convinced that she forgot about every other acotar book she has written. And don't say "well if you don't want to read about fated mates, don't read acotar." She's talking about rejecting the bond and exploring what happens after and who's the only other couple who hasn't accepted their bond yet? Yeah, that's right, Elain and Lucien. I can only assume it's gonna be them who reject the bond. And yes, that would mean Lucien not having his mate. But, you know what, he's a grown ass man and he's not the baby everyone treats him to be. "Poor baby Lucien, he'll be so heartbroken." "He deserves his mate, he deserves to be happy."

Like what about Elain? Eluciens don't care about Elain at all and nothing will ever convince me that they do. She has found her place in the Night Court with her sisters, and her new friends. She is happy there. She is finally accepting her new life now, and she's doing all of that without Lucien.

Sorry for the rant, y'all. I don't care if no one likes this or comments on this or anything. this is my blog and it is my safe place to express how I feel at certain moments.

And, please if you disagree with me, then by all means let me know. I'm open to any and all discussions.

[oreo-oro-orero]

I thought I would talk more about how I feel Ekko is often mistreated or ignored by the Arcane fandom and why I think that is and spoiler alert I Anti-Blackness is at least a part of it.

Ekko is subjected to what a lot of black boys are too in real life which is  adultification. Ekko just like a lot of black boys was essentially forced to grow up and due to this I think a lot of the Arcane Fandom treat him as an adult and thus judge him more harshly just like how in real life black boys are often treated as older then they actually are and thus are subjected to more scruinty and Ekko is sadly constantly subjected to this by the fans. This is in direct contrast with Jinx who seems to be given a lot more leeway which to a certain extent is understandable because it is her story essentially but I still find it odd how she is given the "oh poor baby pushed around by the big bad world must protect" but Ekko is just given a side glance and a "he's doing fine" when both Ekko and Jinx deserve that "need to protect" additude but yet it feels like Jinx is given the most of the protection and Ekko is just left to fend for himself.

Honestly I don't think a lot of the Arcane Fandom looks at Ekko as a victim and that is genuinely upsetting. They look at his situation as more of a success story but even then his "success" is is very sad when you think about it.  Yes he built a community and yes I guess he did "turn out okay" despite his situation but he shouldn't have had build that community in the first place and just because he did doesn't mean he's healed, trauma doesn't just go away because your relatively okay compared to everyone else. I also think his hurt isn't taken as seriously as the other characters because he doesn't actively display it as much, in total his hurt is displayed in two main instances and that's it mostly, the other times he's on screen he's either angry or at the very least mildly annoyed or somber which is interesting because this is most likely a mask he wears and this mask is a direct result of the adultification I talked about earlier. 

Ekko suffers from what a lot of black characters do which is that despite them going through the same or sometimes even more trauma then non black characters, their trauma is often overlooked or downplayed to be less then it is which is something that happens in IRL to black people all the time. Also this mischaracterization of Ekko extended to Shipping as well to where some people label him as an abuser towards Jinx which is ironic because he is one out of like 2 other characters that doesn't actively kill anyone and if anything he tries to avoid that as much as possible so I genuinely don't understand where this abuser assumption came from, is it because they genuinely Believe it or is it because they saw a black man being aggressive an automatically assumed he was the one in the wrong in the situation.

I got a little bit ranty there and I apologize but Ekko is my favorite character from the show and just fiction in general and I feel like he has so much to offer but he is seemingly being mistreated by other fans of the show and that just doesn't sit right with me. I just hope next season really gives him his time in the spotlight.

[polygnosticu]

I kind of feel like shows such as TOH have been a big contributor to the infantilization of adults. Luz doesn’t have to change and everyone who calls her out is made to be in the wrong. This series kind of enabled my worst tendencies with the “I just want to be understood” from a character who did not deserve that. Evangelion actually helped me grow out of that with its harsh but necessary lesson. What do you think?

Evangelion is a discussion I would love to have someday. That show had so many layers to it to dig into and explore. I don't think you can hold The Owl House up to it as Evangelion was a show intended for adults from the outset. Not to mention what Anno Hideaki was going through when he created it. Then that can be said about most anime even when children are the intended demographic.

The fandom of The Owl House seems to have little to no interest in the show Dana Terrace actually created. The show is dark as are the characters but that seems to have escaped the fandom when Lumity became canon and all the fandom cared about was shipping. That's why MoringMark is so popular and almost treated as canon by much of the remaining fandom. They don't want to know just how messed up these people are when you look at the things they've actually done in canon. Luz wanted to blow up a school for her book report. Amity is guilty of at least two attempted homicides. Eda ate a defeated enemy alive. The Demon Realm is well named as it is not a nice place. The show could have been fantastic if Dana had stayed with her original vision of Luz going through a coming-of-age tale in the Disney equivalent of Hell. Instead the fandom wanted Luz to find a happy place where she could be who she was without being judged no matter how inappropriate and dangerous her behavior was.

Amphibia got the concept of the isekai right. The Calamity Trio arrived in Amphibia as irresponsible children and through their journey matured into the young adults we saw at the series' end. TOH fans hated that ending because Anne, Sasha and Marcy grew up beyond their need for a fantasy world to escape into. They preferred Luz retreating to the Demon Realm where she and her friends could remain children forever. Adulthood is scary. Ask me how I know. The Calamity Trio are prepared for the adult world of getting a job, earning and saving money, paying taxes, making new friends and finding new relationships, etc. All the things that mark passage into the adult world. Luz never made that trip. Instead she got a fantasy world where she can stay the child she was in the first episode forever while trapping her friends in their childhoods as well. Amphibia will age well as a series because its creator and fans took the show seriously. The Owl House is largely being forgotten as we speak as its fans move on looking for the next big ship.

[pinklayla123]

Putting this reply here because I want it and it saves me time to say the same thing.

So, you, an elriel, I presume, admit that what Elain and Azriel were about to do was indeed wrong? That Elain pursuing another guy while still having the bond with Lucien is not right? Elain who is not technically, but canonically, undeniably, irrefutably Lucien's mate. So you admit that what was about to happen in the first part of the chapter would have been wrong? That if Elain was so in love with Azriel and dying to be with him as Elriels believe she should at least say it to Lucien's face and reject him instead of staying ever in silence because no, a mating bond is not something that you can just ignore away? That there are not just political ramifications to consider but also how Lucien, who has been a literal darling all the time and described by several other characters as a good male, doesn't fucking deserve to be treated this way?

Hello, person behind ghost blog with randomly generated name, who sent a screenshot of a blog that evidently doesn't exist but is tagged in Elucien fanfictions.

First of all, thank you for sending this ask. This is the first time I've gotten a passive-aggressive fandom related ask like this, so this is low-key a tumblr milestone for me. So thank you for that.

I assume the screenshot included is someone's response to an ask they received in regards to this post since the wording is somewhat similar, but I can't actually find the blog you screenshot so idk what's up with that.

Now, onto the actual ask. The screenshot says "Did Azriel think anything about touching Elain feeling like touching the Mother herself? Lol, no." I believe this is referring to this sentence in my post "Touching Elain is the closest this man has come to meeting the Mother herself."

I did not mean to imply, in any way, shape, or form, that Azriel wants to get down and dirty with the Mother and is using Elain as a conduit for that kink. I simply meant to say that touching Elain was a very monumental experience for him. In the back of my head I was thinking about how he was literally questioning the Cauldron ("What if the cauldron was wrong?") which is a large part of the "religion" in Prythian, therefore anything that made him question it is undoubtedly a big deal for him. I see now that this wasn't very clear in the original post, so thank you for allowing me this opportunity to clarify my thought process.

Now, if I may, I will reply to the paragraph you went to the effort of actually typing out. Yes, I ship Elriel, you presume correctly. Do I think Elain and Azriel almost kissing is wrong? No, I'm afraid not.

This seems to be a follow-up to "The situation is wrong because Elain is technically mated to another guy who is literally sleeping upstairs." in my post. Is Elain wanting to kiss the man who has been nothing but kind and caring and gentlemanly since she's known him wrong? No I believe not.

Despite her canonically, undeniably, irrefutably being Lucien's mate, she actually does not owe him anything at all, least of all an explanation, because she did not make him any promises. She never went up to Lucien and said "I wanna explore this thing between us" and then go behind his back. If that were the case, yes it would be wrong. But alas, it is not.

I don't have it in me to go pull out the actual quote, but Rhys said in ACOWAR I believe that a female being a male's mate does not equal to her being accountable to him for every breath she takes. Elain is well within her right to not want to do anything at all with Lucien, as demonstrated by her being more than willing to kiss someone else in the same house.

Okay, if this isn't wrong, then why on earth did I say that it is? Easy. Because while Elain and Azriel are not doing anything wrong, their actions will be perceived as such by others and will have consequences far beyond the two of them.

On the topic of sweet darling Lucien, I wouldn't go as far to say he is one of my favorite characters, but I certainly don't hate him and would like to see him get a happy ending. However, he hasn't really done much for Elain to say he actually cares about her or wants a life-long relationship with her. His inner monologue consists of thinking Elain was "thrown" at him and he chooses to spend his days living with another woman on the other side of the world. Doesn't seem to me like either of them want jack and shit to do with each other.

p.s. Just because someone is a "good male" doesn't entitle them to anyone's time and affections, especially someone who has shown no interest in them and even seem to avoid them.

Anyways, sorry this got a little long. Have a nice day 😊😊

[snowblack-charcoalwhite]

"Come with me" by Alicent after b&c and well, basically everything, was such a disgusting way to put a final nail in the coffin of what once was, or could have been, a great character. I'm so tired of this useless and distasteful queerbaiting and the nonsensical ship that has been so detrimental to the story. And 'a son for a son' by Rhaenyra?? B**ch, what?! What about baby Jaehaerys? And why wouldn't Alicent mention him? No mention of Jaehaerys, but we got the cringe nail biting, what a peak character development. They must think they are so smart, Condal and Co. Anyway, almost everything was bad in the episode, but the Rhaenicent scene must be n01 of the horrors.

I would also like to make a brief comparison of the two character assassinations we saw this season, Alicent's and Aemond's. Both characters were indeed stripped of any significant and organic development and the result is the mess we've got. However, I think that the intentions weren't the same. With Alicent, I believe that these excuses of the writers wanted to depict it as her atonement, her regression to the only version of Alicent that in their minds, deserves sympathy, young Alicent who longs for Rhaenyra and seeks her approval . She is humiliated and constantly punished by the narrative so when she finally 'comes to her senses' and crawls back to Rhaenyra, she has a chance to ingratiate herself to the audience (and I've seen positive reactions to her in the finale on SM, so it wasn't entirely fruitless). Therefore, the writers actually in a way wanted to endear her to the GA and this was their way to do it. She is in the wrong and must be punished and ridiculed as long as she is the beacon of TG and as long as she doesn't ditch her sons for Rhaenyra, or, "to stop the bloodshed". With Aemond, it was more straightforward. They needed a one dimensional villain and they got him. They wanted to kill all the sympathies for his character and his popularity in s1 was in the way. Hence, all the idiotic changes and inventions regarding his character, and let's not forget the fact that he is one of the supposedly 'important players' who doesn't even have a POV. He needs to be boogeyman for tb and he is allowed to be badass and scary just enough to be a worthy opponent to Daemon so his victory (or whatever it was) at God's Eye doesn't fall flat, but he cannot in any way overshadow the rogue prince. And yes, in the finale he had less than 4 minutes of screentime which proves how Condal's gang sees his character, and also the utmost disrespect they treat him (and his fans) with. Once again, this clearly works because a considerable chunk of the fandom, and I'm sorry to say this, is braindead. It's apparently true that they wrote the show for the worst sort of Dany and Targ stans (and I like Dany and the Targaryens), people who go like 'yass, Queen,' 'slay, queen' , 'the Targaryens are the saviours of Westeros' etc. Daemon's vision and his and Rhaenyra scene proved this perfectly.

Sorry if this was too long. I know I sound angry, but this damn season wae such a torturous and nonsensical snoozefest that it irreparably soured this universe to me. Anyway, it's always a pleasure to read your thoughts wi thanks in advance.

Hello! Thank you for the ask and for the compliment!

First of all, I heartily agree with everything you said.

Condal&Co, apparently, really believe themselves to be oh so clever. GoT callbacks - you got them (overbearing and quite often confusing as heck but who cares). Scenes featuring mirroring, symblolism and whatnot (most of them with Alicent and Rhaenyra) - in abundance (dragged out and pointless - like Alicent swimming scene - but this is Cinema™️). Progressive feministic agenda - you are welcome (said agenda is actually degrading for women as it at the very best presents them as passive and lacking ambition and the will to act - plus it absolutely effing destroys multiple characters and their storylines). And HBO people apparently don't care - and they will not care until all this atrocity bites them in the ass in one way or another.

Alicent doesn't remember Jaehaerys having been murdered - but who does? Poor boy has been all but forgotten right after the show had Helaena announce that she should get over her grief because the smallfolk suffers more than she does. Besides, in the writers' eyes it's not Rhaenyra's fault anyway since she had nothing to do with it. And it's not actually Daemon's fault either since he was shown feeling sad about it for a couple of seconds. You know what, in fact the blame for Jaehaerys' death completely lies with TG: Aemond shouldn't have murdered Luke, Alicent and Criston shouldn't have been fucking, Aegon shouldn't have been drinking with his friends. So it really doesn't count. I have seen a post made by a (quite deranged) TB stan where they claimed that "many sons should die to avenge Luke because we are talking about Lucerys Velaryon". Whatever that even means, Condal and Hess apparently share this opinion.

As for Aemond and Alicent, I agree with you once again. In one of my previous answers I mentioned that the key word for Alicent's character assasination this season is "humiliation" and for Aemond's - "dehumanization". Well, that's literally it: one is shown to be completely miserable (the cause for that misery being her supporting the wrong side of the conflict) - plus she brings the same misery on her daughter's head; the other is left almost without any means for us to understand what he really thinks and feels. Ewan pours everything he has into his eye acting - and it can be seen in the few instances when we are allowed a couple of seconds to focus on his face - but the script staunchly continues hammering home the point of Aemond being a psycho with next to none emotional connection to his family.

Team Green characters had such a huge potential - together and separately - but the writers with their pro-Daenerys agenda (and hence pro-Rhaenyra one as the Black Queen is clearly their Dany 2.0) couldn't have that. There is some hope remaining for Aegon and Larys team up - but I don't trust the writers with them one bit.

[luna-rainbow]

"I don't ship T'Challa and Bucky".

Nor do I. You don't have to...

What do all close bonds have to result in ships anyway? There are other kinds of love than romantic/sexual and there are other kinds of bonds.

Why can't two characters have close emotional bonds without being romantically in love with each other? I say they can! I say we need more extremely close platonic/sibling- like relationships which do not involve who wants to sleep with whom.

Lol, sorry I am ranting. I love how you never pass up on a chance to shit on TFatWS though. It deserves it. Someone even theorized that the reason the scenes with the Wakandans are framed like that in the series is to insinuate Bucky betrayed them.

He would *never* have betrayed them. Bucky is not a betrayer. i'm not saying that to woobify him or because he's without flaw, but its just not in his nature to betray or backstab people. He's a protector by nature like you suggested. Not if he's able to exercize free choice and consent anyway. What he did as the Winter Soldier.. well can that even be counted as betrayal when it wasn't done of his free consent or choice?

Which all goes to show how little the writers of that series understood Bucky/just literally wanted to undermine and subvert everything about his established personality and nature. Why don't the writers just go ahead an kill him off already? Permanently this time. They clearly couldn't care less about his character at this point so they might as well. Just at least give him a heroic death....

Yeah, honestly Bucky breaking Zemo out isn’t my gripe, it’s that he’s not given a justification that matches his character. Say if the super soldiers were a threat to Wakanda, or even a direct threat to Sam (instead of them just doing their own thing and it’s really Sam and Bucky trying to stop their quest to provide vaccines for the refugees), and Zemo was once working closely with Nagel and had a direct line in, I would think that might be sufficient justification for Bucky to break Zemo out. As it stands it’s like three degrees of separation and it made no sense for Bucky to go that far, for something that had minimal returns.

I heard that Cap 4 will contain a scene where Isaiah becomes “possessed” in the manner of a brainwashed Winter Soldier and fights against Sam. I would be interested to see whether they treat that as Isaiah’s fault and something he needs to make amends for, or as something beyond his control and the fault of the person who controlled him — as it should be. Although, if they take the correct stance, given the writer is Spellman, I would question that divergent treatment of two similar characters. 

There is a subsection of series fans who believe any direct acknowledgment of Bucky’s extensive trauma or purporting he is a man with strong moral goodness is woobification. Pointing out that he is a good man who would not fucking do that is not what woobification is about.

I think there’s also a subsection of fans who prefer to characterise Bucky as morally ambiguous. It’s not the characterisation I see from movie canon, and I think it’s more in keeping with the comics Bucky who’s a very different character.

[victimsofyaoipoll]

Round 4

Joan Watson

How were BBC Sherlock shippers so rancid about a WOMAN who wasnt even in the SAME SHOW?????

Martin Freeman of BBC Sherlock insulted Elementary and specifically Lucy Liu in the press. He straight up called Lucy Liu a "dog" in an interview APPARENTLY as a joke, because calling female actors ugly is hilarious. Benedict Cumberbatch was more measured about it, but he still said he was cynical about Elementary because it would lose the "male friendship" dynamic, which of course Johnlock shippers used against Joan Watson fans. Even the lead BBC Sherlock actors got in on the yaoi victimization of Joan Watson... 😔

she wasn't even in the same SHOW as the yaoi I've been convinced she deserves to win the entire poll. I was a Johnlocker but I did watch the first season of Elementary and it was fine????? It was totally okay????? Especially in hindsight given how hard Sherlock season four flopped. Also Lucy Liu is a queen and deserved zero vitriol for *checks notes* playing a character???? A fucking fictional character???????? Oh my god we were all SO mean to this show and we (or at least I) thought it was like The Good Fight™️, like we were defending BBC Sherlock against copyright infringement and straightwashing and Jonny Lee Miller's bizarre scarf, (it wasn't a good scarf I do stand by that) but then Elementary didn't make Holmes and Watson a couple either???? And also it didn't insult its audience constantly etc etc we've all seen the Hbomberguy Sherlock is Garbage video. This is really long sorry hashtag justice for Joan Watson.

Misa Amane

she gets treated in-canon the way fandoms treat female characters that Threaten an m/m ship. it's like, "oh why don't you go sit in the corner and be pretty, misa, while the Men have intelligent conversation and pretend they aren't ten seconds from fucking each other, doesn't that sound nice?" it's infuriating. and MAYBE it's better now but i remember her getting treated the same way in fanfiction too, like we all need to do just as badly by our female secondary characters as fucking tsugumi ohba, but with the added insult of making her be alternately oblivious of the relationship between light and L or actively trying to sabotage it—incompetently, of course, because god forbid misa be allowed dignity or moments of cleverness.

she's one of the first characters I think of when I consider old school fandom misogyny. The annoying bitch and clingy crazy gf allegations were AFTER HER ASS. She's also a lot more intelligent than people gave her credit for, but most seem inclined to take the Very Biased word of our unreliable, narcissistic narrator and his homoerotic arch nemesis and claim that just because she's bubbly and into romance that she's also a complete moron. Which is blatantly untrue. Everyone was afraid of Misa girlbossing too hard. Killing people and devoting yourself to the deranged twink of your dreams even though you know he'll never love you back??? Having a hardcore goth aesthetic and being so Hot even literal Death Gods are into you?? God forbid women do ANYTHING!

Not only is she the victim of yaoi culture, she is the victim of early 2000s misogyny by an author that wanted to introduce a girl character because he knew his male rivals were getting too homoerotic. She is a goth bimbo icon who portrays what I think is one of the few callouts for stan culture and what parasocial relationships can do to both the stan and the idol. The fact that she is a toxic fan of Kira and also hot, funny, sociable is tragic in its own way, which I think the author did try to touch on but was too misogynistic too really get through. Of course, she was reduced to villain status by the fandom and anime alike because she got in the way of the supposed romance in their psychological horror anime.

[smallenoughtopurr]

I know when it comes to male shipping treating female characters who "get in the way" like shit is nothing new but when it comes to Chainshipping it makes no fucking sense whatsoever.

Like why do we need to demonize Alison Gordon? She did nothing wrong.

Because she "gets in the way" of Adam and Lawrence? Well first of all that's a shitty reason to villainize her, and second of all, Lawrence literally did not appreciate her as much as he should have. He visited another woman behind her back and their marriage was already crumbling before the bathroom trap.

Or is it because she argued with Lawrence? Uh, couples do that. And what she said wasn't even particularly mean or wrong. She just said that Lawrence was lying to himself and pretending he was happy (which he absolutely was) and she was also upset that he was distant towards her and Diana.

(Like, I love Lawrence but HE was the bad guy in that relationship.)

Also, Adam would not openly hate her or act shitty towards her for any reason. Some of you guys claim to love Adam but don't seem to understand how kind and empathetic he really is. Adam was incredibly sweet about Lawrence's family. He wanted to see those pictures when Lawrence started talking about them, and he called Alison a "lucky lady". God he was even angry on their behalf when Lawrence was acting disturbingly calm after knowing they were being held hostage, and he seemed at least a little disgusted at Lawrence's cheating. Even after Alison said "Don't believe Adam's lies" Adam didn't say anything nasty towards her in retaliation. He just acted guilty at his own actions. I imagine he'd act the same in other situations if chainshipping were to happen. This man was an only child who wanted siblings and feeds stray cats and complimented Amanda's hairstyle, you think he's gonna act petty to a woman who has been through so much shit she never deserved?

Yes, I could definitely see Alison not feel Diana is safe with Lawrence anymore. I could see her feeling bitter that Lawrence would leave her for yet another person in their 20s. I could see her not trusting or even liking Adam. But like, so would literally anyone else in her situation! None of that makes her a bitch, it makes her a normal fucking person having a normal human reaction.

[aingeal98]

Hi, so I was reading some of your Stephanie Brown meta & kudos, serious props yours is excellent. I also noticed you seem to be among those who picked up on the worrying undercurrent of Stephanie's relationships with older men. So double kudos for that.

Especially as its one of those things that tends to get glossed over in fandom & I am unsure at times if some writers even grasped what they were doing. Though that may say more about how girls tend to be treated/viewed as adults rather than children, teenagers or victims, save when its convenient to judge them as such.

Sorry not sure where I am going with this, but I think your stance it from that "Five ships that won't happen" section of the Steph ask as well thought out and covered a lot, so third kudos just for tackling that heavy topic so deftly and efficiently.

Ah thank you! Stephanie's relationship with men is so fascinating to me because she's been hurt so many times and the dissonance between her canon and fanon versions are pretty grim yet interesting. Like in early canon she was the Faith to Ariana's Buffy, the Veronica to the Bettys that were Tim's other love interests at the time. And various writers had various ideas about why she was the way she was, a common theme being that she had difficult relationships with the men in her life and had been hurt in the past. Be it a villain, a friend of her fathers, Cluemaster himself, or a shitty clearly too old guy named Dean. I don't think it was meant to be a pattern, more likely just individual ideas about trauma Steph suffered in her past that ended up turning into a consistent trait.

So you've got an abusive father, at least two cases of SA that I can remember (her babysitter and Black Mask), a pregnancy with clear subtext that the father was older than her, and the general way Batman treats her.

Not to mention she was a minor when all this happened. Like Steph has so many issues that she deserves the chance to unpack but instead they've just kind of... softened her down. Like her Batgirl run was the first chance she'd gotten to be the actual hero instead of The Girl in a story written by sexists, and she deserved every second of that. There had been too much injustice done to her character and her Batgirl run did a good job at setting the baseline for giving her a decent narrative. But afterwards, the New 52 could have delved more into her psyche instead of leaning into her waffles and sparkles fanon characterization. But because the New 52 is the worst, it didn't. And now here we are.

It's one of the reasons I'd really love to write a story about Steph realising she's bisexual, because I think in some ways her view of men are due to feeling trapped by heterosexuality and the patriarchal society. It's hard to explain fully without going into a whole other meta but the way she reacts to Tim showing her bare minimum decency is heartbreaking. Like yes men are awful and have been awful to her but she still likes them, she's going to settle down and marry one eventually right? She just has to find the right one, and Tim didn't treat her like complete garbage so he might be it for her!

And then for her to realise that no, she doesn't. She can marry a man if she wants to but if she wants romance there's also women... I really think bi Steph could be so much more than a simple "Oh hey I like girls now cool lol." Like it would shake a significant amount of the misogyny she's internalised and directed towards herself, it could alter the view she's taken of the world, and it would allow her to see her past trauma through a different lens, maybe with less subconscious self hatred.

Sorry this turned into a giant ramble haha, but thank you for the ask!

[buddiebeginz]

Why does it feel like people ship B/T out of obligation? Not because they actually like the ship, but because it’s canon queer representation that they have to support otherwise you get labeled as ‘homophobic’ or not supportive of bi! Buck. They care more about what the ship represents and not at all with how it’s written.

Because that's the reality. For some people they don't care what kind of representation we get for queer characters/ships so long as there is canon representation. Let me tell you as someone who is a little older and has been watching queer media for a long time shitty or minimal representation is not better than no representation. Not for me anyway.

I want so much to see more people like me in media especially considering that I'm bi and there are so few canon bi characters. I will always be grateful to 911 for them making Buck (who I relate to a lot btw) a canon bi character. But at the same time they haven't handled his bi journey all that great and they've handled his first relationship with a man even worse.

Personally I don't care for T*mmy as a character and mostly I just think Buck deserves better. There is so little substance to that relationship. Buck and T*mmy barely even talked through most of s7 and when they did I didn't like how T*mmy treated Buck. I didn't like how dismissive and sometimes down right snappy he was with Buck. Plus we saw how much T*mmy went out of his way multiple times for Eddie but we never saw him do the same for Buck he couldn't even be bothered to dress up for the bachelor party.

I also didn't like that we really didn't get to know how Buck feels about T*mmy and that relationship by the end of s7. You can say we saw some of that during the dinner scene or when he talked to Bobby but it was really Bobby doing most of the talking in the locker room scene and the date only made me dislike T*mmy more. Buck was being vulnerable and T*mmy was made to seem like he didn't really care again. It would have been nice to have a scene where Buck talked about how he felt having been dating a guy for a little bit and what he really thought about T*mmy at this point but we really haven't gotten any insight on that.

All that aside though no one has to like any ship and it certainly isn't homophobic/biphobic to dislike a pairing (unless your reasoning is you don't want to see two people of the same sex together). I actually haven't cared for any of Buck's love interests for one reason or another but here's the thing if you have an otp for a show you don't need a reason to dislike it when the characters you ship are with other people. You can simply say I don't like them with that other person I want to see the ship I love together.

B*mmys will come up with all kinds of reasons as to why they've decided it's not okay for you to dislike their ship but it's all a bunch of bs. I heard similar stuff when Buck and Taylor were together. That it was misogynistic because I didn't like Taylor and them together (mainly because I've never liked Taylor after what she did to Bobby). But whether it's B*mmy's calling us homophobic or Buck/Taylor's calling us misogynistic it's all the same kind of stuff. They're just looking for a reason to make us feel bad for not agreeing with them. You don't have to like the same kinds of things as anyone else and you don't have to see the show the same as anyone else.