#why parallel them to romantic couples multiple times

[lesbianjackkline]

supernatural was soooo sick for directly paralleling dean taking his grief for cas, out on jack, with john taking his grief for mary, out on sam and dean. like what the fuck was up with that??

[torialefay]

this may be kind of an unusual question so feel free to ignore it, but i tend to make lots of links and associations of concepts/situations with music and stuff and so i'm curious, what are some songs that you'd pick to describe what it would be like to be in a relationship with chan? or some songs that suit his placements (for example, i think work song by hozier is peak scorpio venus devotion level haha)

okay i LOVE this question!!! (also currently in a hozier phase so i love that you brought up that song.) if you have any other recs, pls send them my way, but here's some that had come to mind:

✨🎶 Dating Channie Sounds Like 🎶✨

the friendship/relationship stage:

i don't think it's just me who thinks that chan is gonna have to know & be friends with someone before progressing to a romantic relationship. i think he could definitely pine over someone for a while and be too scared to say anything. and then if something DID happen between the two of you, you would have to hide it for a pretty longgg time. that's why i chose these 2 songs :)

• human - dodie ft tom walker ✨

• hush hush - the band camino✨

actual committed relationship phase:

• medicine - royal sugar ✨ this gives me such new-relationship, pent-up sexual tension vibes. this man would not be able to stop thinking ab you sexually when you first get together... 100%. sex w/ him is likely initially more fun, like in this song, but once he gets to KNOW you, it gets wayyyy deeper

• tenerife sea - ed sheeran ✨ this one might be a cop-out bc chan has sung it multiple times on channie's room but i couldn't NOT put it in here. moving past the superficial, this song paints such a new, mesmerizing love story. you are elated you finally found your person.

• mess is mine - vance joy ✨ i'm sorry but the lyrics "this body is yours and mine" & "now your mess is mine" is so channie-coded to me. he is offering himself up to you. anything you want from him is yours & he will take on all of your hurt

• fire and the flood AND lay it on me - vance joy ✨ these were just so all-encompassing, i couldn't not include them. you become the most consuming part of his life. he quite literally can't go a day without thinking of you and how fucking attached his heart is to yours. you are his everything and only thing. "i always feel you in my blood" & "your love's always finding me out."

• until you - ahi ✨ this song isn't as relevant NOW, but it really throws me into a pre-debut channie love story tbh. bless his little heart 💔 i couldn't NOT include it bc it's still beautiful.

• anointed - miguel AND religion - lana del rey ✨ these have the same purpose, so i'm including them together. when channie is truly in love with you, he won't fuck you- he fucking worships you. well, you worship each other in the bedroom. and i feel this a million times. he needs something deeper and he needs to feel consumed in it. praising each other until you physically have no stamina left in your body.

tough times/drifting apart/ fights:

sorry but i had to add a couple of angsty songs that i could totally see playing out in a relationship w channie </3

• fleeting love - royal sugar ✨ i 100% see this song being about your struggles with a long distance relationship. not being able to work anything out, but also not being able to let them go. "in the elevator with your passport... goodbye is 10 floors down." you just want him so badly, but you don't know you can do this. you were so happy to have him, even if just for a little bit.

• berenstein - the band camino ✨ chan always talks about alternate universes, so i had to add this one in. the line "at another place in time, you were infinitely mine," it makes me think so much about if you were perfect with channie, and you both knew that... but you simply couldn't be with him because of his idol life. but you knew that somewhere out there in a parallel universe, he wasn't an idol, and you were together like you were meant to be :((((

bonus song:

this song reminds me SO MUCH of chris. the first time i heard it, i instantly thought of him. it isn't a love song by any means, it just makes me think of him && his life/all he's been through ❤️

• time's eyes - riley pearce ✨

if anyone has a song they automatically think of with channie, pls pls pls let me knowwww!!!

[my-mt-heart]

Thoughts on TBOC 206

I have a few thoughts on 206 specifically, but now that all of the episodes are out, I want to look at what the season as a whole accomplished for Carol's and Daryl's arc(s), or rather, how much damage it did, and emphasize for the millionth time that new leadership is the only way forward.

Carol and Daryl both planning to stay behind was really sweet. I especially loved the emotion in Melissa's voice when she delivered Carol's line about not being able to live with herself if anything happened to Daryl and the look she gives him when she's about to get on the plane. Melissa has a remarkable talent for conveying a story that the writing and editing don't want to tell and I cannot thank her enough for staying true to the character in spite of that. It shouldn't have to be that way, but it is because the men in charge are all vindictive monsters.

The interruption trope was grossly overused the whole season, but in the case of the plane, after Carol jumps out, there's plenty of room for her and Daryl to have a moment with each other where the impact of what she just did lands on both of them, but it gets passed over. There are smiles sure, but they don't even hug? It feels extremely inorganic.

For the very first time all fucking season, we get to see Daryl comfort Carol. He tells her that what happened to Sophia and the other kids wasn't her fault and that living at the Commonwealth will be different this time because they'll “stay together.” Again, it’s a sweet scene when you take it at face value, but thinking about it in context, I have several bullshit cards to play. It shouldn't have taken Daryl this long to figure out that Carol was struggling with her grief again. Even if he wasn't an expert on reading Carol, she explicitly told him multiple times throughout the back half of the season that she’s hurting, but for some reason it’s only when the child he's known for two months is safe that he can finally make some space for her? Bullshit. That’s not Daryl. Acting far removed from that grief when Sophia was a huge part of his story too? Bullshit, that's also not Daryl. The scene is supposed to be Caryl fans' payoff? Bullshit, because it's a repeat of a couple of scenes they shared in S10, only worse, because this time it's really hard to take Daryl seriously when just a few episodes previously, he was talking to Isabelle about the life they'd have in the CW. Do I think he meant what he said to Isabelle? No. Does that matter? No, because it's never clarified. Thus...bullshit.

Why is a supporting character given really drawn out romantic beats with another supporting character I don’t recognize (did she fall out of the sky? Who is she??) when the only romance that's actually been earned gets no focus whatsoever? Is the hand-holding scene supposed to parallel them? Why are we only allowed to have parallels? What is that?

I've talked a lot about the tunnel scene already because of the script leak and for me, seeing it on screen was worse than reading it on the page which was already an awful experience. Again, why do Daryl and ghost Isabelle get more emotional weight than Daryl and Carol, who actually have a deep bond with each other and have spent over a decade with each other? Why is he giving up on life when he knows he has Carol back? Why is there literally no reaction when he meets up with Carol again after a near-death experience? Zabel treats them like they're strangers, and I will never get over how insane it is that someone so ignorant and careless gets to be in charge of their stories. Also, why are they talking before putting on their masks??

Melissa is wonderful in her performance when Carol sees Sophia, but the scene feels like a copout instead of giving her a proper resolution to her arc. It feels like there's still so much work to be done there. Also, why couldn't they find an actress who resembled Sophia more closely? The contrast is really distracting.

Thinking more broadly about the season now, it feels like the healing journey Melissa intended for Carol got upended by Daryl's betrayal (and yeah I'm going to call it that). I think it raises more insecurities about her self-worth, and I hate the male EPs for that.

They turned Daryl into an original character who embodies an "ideal" masculinity, but it comes off as inauthentic to the character many fans related to in the flagship show. I miss the unconventional hero who takes a long time to build emotional connections and stays loyal to them once he does. His sudden desire to build an entirely new family with people he's just met wreaks havoc on many of his bonds back home, but particularly Daryl's and Carol's. One of the many issues with Zabel is that he's used to writing broadcast TV shows (think crime, medical, or law procedurals) where the main characters can be reset a million and one times and their trajectory doesn't change. Daryl's and Carol's story isn't wired that way. On the contrary, they are two of the most transformed characters on television, with a long history that needs to be respected. Zabel does not respect that. Neither does Nicotero, Gimple, and even Norman.

I don't expect things to change for S3. I actually think they'll get worse and as much as I love Melissa and Caryl, the four horsemen are simply untrustworthy. I won't subject myself to more of their shit. Why should I? As Nicotero so kindly pointed out, they don't make the show for me (or any fans?) anyway. I'd love to watch a real Caryl show, one that has a showrunner who values Melissa's input, understands the characters, and respects the fans and I sincerely hope AMC will do the right thing.

Bonus Thought: “You Can't Always Get What You Want" feels like a slap in the face and I will never be able to listen to it again. Thanks, Zabel 🖕

[chronic-escapixt]

Favorite non cannon Bonnie ships ranked:

this is just my opinion so don't come for me, but I based this ranking on character interactions, certain plot elements, and overall potential

bonnie x me - because I will treat her right, she's a baddie (not even atrocious styling could deny that face card!!), and we're already married in my head so..

jk.. but actually:

klonnie - this one grew on me when I heard joseph himself shipped them. it just makes sense that he'd be drawn to bonnie considering she's not just any other person to him. her bloodline has direct ties to his family and she's gone head-to-head against him multiple times. klaus is calculated asf from the moment we meet him so he'd probably go into their relationship trying to play with her head and keep her close as a potential tool for his own agenda (in a keep ur enemies close kinda-way), but he ends up falling for her along the way. bonnie's level-headed and mature nature would balance out klaus's more irrational chaos - maybe in a similar way klaus works with cami in the originals (my fav cannon klaus ship).

2. stefonnie - this one isn't talked about enough. remember in s1 when elena set up that dinner between her, stefan, and bonnie. elena was so set on bonnie liking stefan when they first got together. the early seasons really seemed invested in laying the foundation of stefan x bonnie with how protective he is of her. it seemed like their relationship should have only grown from there & there's no reason why it was just abandoned. plus, there's so many parallels between their plotlines: in s5 they both spend the summer indisposed (stefan drowning the whole time and bonnie being dead) and no one noticing. they couldve meaningfully bonded over that shared trauma. the otherside literally exists because bonnie's ancestor was cheated on by stefan's (original face, doppleganger?) whatever silas is - with her handmaid Amara.. so many stefonnie parrallels go ignored by the writers!

3. bonkai - one of my favorites. i wish we got more of a romantic or seggual payoff from these two bc the built up was certainly there for a darker romance kinda vibe. similar to the other villainxprotagonist couples in this show but no epic romantic payoff for bonnie i guess.. the actors' chemistry with each other in these scenes carries the ship for me & in the hands of writers that gaf about these characters it couldve been epic.

4. bamon - i know this one comes from the book & it's a fan favorite, but this actually feels more out of left field than stefonnie for me. that's not to say i don't like it. the second half of the show was for bamon and the writer's knew it. that's why they had to keep reinforcing that they're 'just friends' or else their chemistry would have turned tvd into the bamon show..

5. bonnie x katherine - i love the idea of a bi bonnie (clearly). lots of fans pair her with nora but i hate everything about the heretic storyline and the characters so i prefer katherine. they didn't interact much, but hear me out, katherine has always found herself paired with a bennett witch (emily in the 1800s, bonnie's cousin) and i think they'd be cute. i love katherine the most when she's not obsessing over the salvatore brothers or jealous of elena so i think pairing her with bonnie would offer a refreshing perspective of her character.

[starsreminisce]

Our favorite Elain stan 🌷🦌☀️ !!

1. Why is Elain one of your favorite characters?

2. Is there a specific scene that made you like her?

3. What theories/headcanons do you have for Elain?

4. Feel free to share anything else about Elain that the questions didn’t cover!

1. Why is Elain one of your favorite characters?

She reminds me of one of my absolute favorite people in the world. Elain is someone who has been shaped by her circumstances, and the way she interacts with and responds to the world is a reflection of what she’s learned in order to survive. Elain best exemplifies the idea that two things can be true at the same time, even more so than Nesta. Yes, someone can be soft and caring but also capable of setting hard boundaries when something starts to affect them in a way they don’t like. She can do that. She can use violence when necessary, like when she stabbed the King of Hybern, but she can also hate doing it, as she often was described how much violence does affect her. Feyre said that Elain can be brave when needed, and I feel like that’s an aspect of her that’s often overlooked, even though it’s fundamental to who she is.

SJM typically writes FMCs in a certain way, but I’m excited to see her take on a softer, more magically-inclined Willow-like FMC, rather than her usual Buffy-esque characters.

2. Is there a specific scene that made you like her?

I thought it was really sweet how much of a romantic Elain is, already packing a bag for Feyre when she returned to the Spring Court. But what really stood out to me was when she said the Queens should burn in hell. It reminded me of how Lucien said the exact same line...

LITTLE DID I KNOW

3. What theories/headcanons do you have for Elain?

A headcanon of mine is that Elain took up baking because it's Jesminda's hobby, something she doesn’t even realize. Baking feels like a fall activity to me, so I always think there is some subconsciousness Elain has about how much her mate does affect her.

I also have a theory that Elain's increasing sun-like descriptions signify her and Lucien paralleling their development as they move toward who they want to be together. Her character growth in ACOSF shows that she is preparing to become a High Lady of a court. We've seen her softness in previous books, and ACOSF illustrates how Elain acts when she can no longer afford to be soft.

I believe both Elain and Lucien will be the couple that solidifies the connection between their world and TOG and CC.

4. Feel free to share anything else about Elain that the questions didn’t cover!

Elain’s issue isn’t with Lucien specifically, but with the bond itself. No matter who was on the receiving end of that bond, she would react the same way she is now. Her story will further explore and expand on that lore. If ACOSF was SJM processing difficult experiences in her own life, Elucien's book will likely reflect SJM’s college days, especially around the time she left for college, met her husband, and went through months of pushing and pulling before they decided to be together.

Elain says she doesn’t want a mate, and I find it fitting that her mate is someone who believed he no longer had one. I still think back to Elain dreamily mentioning how Tomas wanted to marry Nesta, and I believe she deserves someone willing to fight against all odds to be with her, which Lucien already did for Jesminda.

In the beginning of Outlander, Jamie rescues Claire multiple times, despite their marriage initially being one of convenience. Similarly, ACOWAR gave us a glimpse of how far Lucien is willing to go for Elain, and I think their book will highlight the depth of Lucien's determination to bring Elain the against-all-odds romance she dreams of.

I can’t wait to read how Elain realizes it’s not the bond that makes Lucien act this way, but that it’s because of who Lucien is at his core that they are mates.

I hope you enjoyed this! Thank you so much for asking!

[ofoceansandtombsanew]

Can I ask, if you have top favorite romantic couples (can be canon or non canon) of all time from any media? Why love them? Thx :D

... now this, took a minute to answer in some ways. There a lot of ships I like, so this was really easy and hard to answer at the same time. Some ships it was an immediate yep yep and others I had to go '... but is it a fav of all time, though?" But I think I got it narrowed down.

So here we go, fav ships of all time from any media, no particular order. I didn't get any specific no. to do so I'll just list a handful until I can't think of any others. (Anyone who comes across this that sees a ship on here you don't like and feels the need to say something about it, stay in your lane this ain't about your opinions it's about mine.)

The main FMA ships

Arakawa Hiromu, nigga, you cooked. Imma just put the FMA ships as one and leave it there because if I do it separately, we'll be here all day. But if you wanna see me diving into why I like these ships in a manic ramble, here's a post I made on that here. The romance in FMA is literally a category and a discussion all on its own that I can go about on for hours. FMA has the best romances in shounen so anyone who has consumed FMA will know what I'm talking about. Like, whenever anyone tries to use a manga being 'shounen' to justify shitty romantic writing, I point at FMA's brilliant riding. An animanga's demographic is not an excuse for terrible executions in romance. EdWin, RoyAi, LingFan, AlMei and all the side ships drank and left no molecules.

NaruSaku

Toxic shippers, again, stay in your lane, I don't feel like dealing with y'all any day. I have been shipping this shit for years, always have, always will. Ignore the fact I ship Sakura with literally everyone from the Akatsuki to Hinata to Sai to Shikamaru. (Y'all I used to look up Kisame/Sakura fics, unironically TAT). (Same for Naruto honestly, I've shipped him with Sasuke, Ino, Temari, Tenten, the list goes on and on.) The way Sakura goes from finding Naruto annoying to almost dying multiple times to keep him safe, I will never EVER be over that. Naruto's love going from puppy to something as passionately red as the thread of fate itself. The MinaKushi parallels. I have a lot (and I mean a lot) of ships in Naruto pertaining to these two, but NaruSaku is my absolute favorite. Like it was literally confirmed that Sakura got over Sasuke and then it got retconned for some bullshit. Saying it with my whole chest, argue with a wall, it should have been them. I won't dog any other ships, but yeah, it should have been them. 699 chapters of Naruto being in love with one woman, I sing the praises everyday.

SakuHina

Hinata's prince charming is literally Sakura. I have a whole ass fic I am slowly, painstakingly writing about what Naruto would have been like if Hinata had a crush on Sakura the whole time. I just think they're really cute together, have amazing chemistry and balance each other out. I didn't expect to like SakuHina as much as I did but here we are.

Kyoru

I mentioned it before in another answered ask but Fruits Basket was my first manga (if you're curious what my first anime was, it was Yu Yu Hakusho) and Kyoru was probably my first OTP. There are two characters I think upon so many rewatches and rereads that were prime game for who Kyo and Tohru could have ended up with had things been different (which, I do really ship as well. Multishipper here guys) but I'm not mad about the endgames that we got. From start to finish, Kyo and Tohru's relationship is beautiful and you can feel how strongly they feel for one another. It's like, wow, Takaya really gave us one of the best ships in shoujo and didn't even apologize for it.

Klance

Red + Blue = True. They had chemistry, supplemented for what the other lacked and we really don't need to have me diving into the bs that was VLD. That show wasn't even out long, my god, it was a mess.

NeuviFuri

Should I explain to you the romanticism of Hydro x Hydro? Oof how I love them. A Genshin ship after my own heart, truly. But if anyone is trying to against MiHoyoverse (I was here from the Mihoyo days, leave me alone) in terms of seeing who ships NeuviFuri more, we all lose. They literally paid people to do an ice dancing program in NeuviFuri cosplay, paid a guy to make a companion piece to Furina's song from Neuvillette's perspective and several other animations concerning their relationship in some way. But the Mihoyoverse shenanigans aside, it's the build up of 400+ years of working together, the care they still have for one another and yes the complementary abilities and color palettes. Not enough time in the day to talk about them, I don't think.

AriDante

Almost thought I wouldn't have a gif for them, then I remembered THEY GOT A MOVIE. Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe is one of my favorite books in the world. I have reread it once a year religiously since 2017 when I first discovered it. This is such a beautiful novel and relationship and if you haven't had the pleasure of reading it or the sequel, please do yourself a favor and buy it or rent it from your local library. It's just, the way Ari has been in love with Dante for so long and didn't even realize it but it's so, so clear to the reader because of just how he talks and describes him? I don't even want to go to deep into this one just in case there's someone here that hasn't read this book because it deserves to be read and experienced blind. Just, just please y'all read it.

[will80sbyers]

I’m sorry but... why do you think mike is bi? I mean, look at him! he’s so gay

Is this a serious question? "He's so gay!" was funny though lmao 🤣 if it is... this is very summarized and you can go look in my pinned post if you want more, I made a whole power point about it when I was fixated in a unhinged way during the summer 🌞

actually I'll link it here ( keep in mind it's old so for some details I might have changed my mind but in general it should explain many things of how I'm reading Mike's character when I watch )

but anyway, there are multiple things in the show and outside of the show that make me think he's bi:

the storyline makes more sense to me with him being bi because of how he talks in the show about his relationship

I don't think he's lying about much on the show and I place his actions in context with his low self esteem and fear of things changing + confusion about his feelings for Will

the way the show is filmed takes his relationship with El seriously and frames them as romantic multiple times

in the script of season 2 the writers made it clear Mike had romantic feelings for El at that point

I think there's bi color coding and jokes in the script specifically for him

there are lots of parallels in the show with romantic couples and Byler and lots of the parallels are also with Milven which means Milven is a real romantic couple to me and I can't ignore that because if I ignore those parallels for Mlv then I can't take the parallels Byler has with romantic couples as romantic coding either, it would be a double standard to say one has a romantic meaning and the other doesn't

There are parallels between S1/2 Mike liking El on screen and Mike S4 starting to like Will which indicates to me that he had feelings for El too as he does for Will

The marketing takes Mlv seriously as a couple and did this for years selling stuff about them and I think the writers just deleting the relationship is not probable also because of that

The whole st*ncy - Mlv parallel doesn't make much sense to include if the reason Mike can't love El is because he's gay and not because they aren't compatible as a couple

And I think that's all (again, very summarized) ...

but in general all the posts about Mike being gay, while they are very interesting, didn't convince me because more often than not they don't fit with the general context around it- logically there's something in the show that doesn't make it make sense- although I keep this option always open because even if I think that in the end the writers could still do it!

In general as long as Will and Mike are together in the end I don't really care about what they decide to go with but for now to me it makes more sense that Mike had puppy love feelings for El when he was little and then he's now realizing Will is who he should be with ❤️

and also, I mean, look at him! He's so bi!

[aemiron-main]

Lord Henry and Lady Patty- Does This Mean That They’re a Romantic Couple? How Does Stranger Things Treat The Type of Relationship That Exists Between a Lord and a Lady?

So, like I said before, I’m definitely still not convinced that George is Henry, and I think it’s far more likely that George is Lonnie Byers or Allen Munson.

However, setting that aside/regardless of George’s identity, it’s clear that Patty and Henry are likely going to interact at some point (which we already knew based on their parallels in the animated trailer).

So, today, I want to talk about the supposed meanings of Patty and Henry’s names, as I saw a post awhile back talking about how “Henry means Lord of the House and Patty means Lady of The House so they MUST be a reciprocated romantic couple,” and there’s a few things I want to dismantle there.

Setting aside the obvious stuff that goes against a Patty-Henry romance, such as the age-gap & the inability to age Henry up because the play is canon material and Henry WAS 12 in 1959 in canon, and also setting aside the fact that the crush has been described as one-sided on Patty’s part, for this post, I want to focus on specifically why the “meanings of Henry and Patty’s names,” thing does NOT point towards a reciprocated romance.

Alright!

So, BEFORE we get to "how do we explain these names even in a seemingly romantic way" thing considering the whole age gap, if Henry and Patty aren't coded as romantic at all in any way, then what's up with the names?

Well, we know that the shot of Henry at the Creel house window in the animated TFS trailer seems to parallel the shot of Patty in the church:

So- is the “lord/lady of the house” thing being used more literally here? As in the literal, physical house?

Did Patty live in the Creel house before the Creels moved in? Did Victor buy the house from the Newby family?

However, even setting all of that speculation about the house aside, let’s assume that the meanings of the names are as they seem on the surface/have seemingly romantic connotations re: lord and lady.

I think that these name meanings are actually some strong evidence that Henry and Patty aren’t going to be romantic.

This is because these names are basically the equivalent of naming them Heteronormativity 1 and Heteronormativity 2- they may as well have named them Romeo and Juliet (and we all know that ST loves to poke fun at Romeo and Juliet/them not being “true love”).

Lords and Ladies are probably one of the furthest things from genuine romantic love/a genuine romantic relationship.

When it comes to lords and ladies, marriages were basically always arranged marriages- alliances between noble families, where the participants getting married had no choice in the matter. The people getting married were basically treated as property, as bargaining chips, like pawns in chess. There’s nothing actually romantic about the titles, quite the opposite.

Lords and ladies would also frequently take lovers outside of the marriage, including queer lovers (often using their marriage to conceal their homosexuality). Which, that would make sense with Henry’s constant queercoding.

And speaking of nobles and queerness, if we want to talk about the name “Henry,” re: nobility, then let’s talk about Henry III of France (which, there’s also the whole multiple Henries during NINA thing and rhe fact that Henry II was involved in the War of the Three Henrys, but that’s for another time), who had a wife, but has been frequently depicted as being gay.

And specifically/most notably, he was depicted as being gay in the 1954 film, La Reine Margot.

So, we’ve got a noble named Henry who has a famous gay portrayal from the 50s and we’ve also got a guy named Henry in a play from the 50s. I won’t be surprised at all if there’s a connection there regarding Henry’s queercoding.

But setting that aside entirely and going back to Romeo and Juliet, Romeo and Juliet were both nobles, from rival noble families, who “fell in love.” My point is, the whole “romantic nobility titles” thing that’s seemingly present with Henry and Patty is also present with Romeo and Juliet, and is an idea that ST has mocked repeatedly.

Like, ST pokes fun at the idea of pushing two people people into marriage (which is EXACTLY what happens with lords and ladies)- for example, in S1, Lucas makes fun of Mike and El, with his comment about Mike marrying El:

ST itself is poking fun at Mileven’s relationship, and leaving those early breadcrumbs to tell us that Mileven isn’t endgame. Lucas is pressuring Mike into heteronormativity/into a relationship (as a result of those same pressures having been put on Lucas himself), like a smaller-scale version of how lords and ladies were pressured (and more often, forced) into marriages.

Karen and Ted Wheeler’s relationship is also similar to an arranged marriage, as while it’s not an actual arranged marriage, Karen seems to have married Ted for money, and not for love, just like how the arranged marriages between lords and ladies were about money and status, and has nothing to do with love:

Like, Nancy specifically talks not only about Ted having money, but also coming from a “good family,” something that was a key part of the arranged relationships between lords and ladies.

Again, my point is- the relationship that exists between a lord and a lady is the EXACT type of relationship that ST frequently mocks and frequently pulls apart and subverts. It would make no sense and be completely contradictory to everything that ST has done and shown us so far for Patty and Henry to have genuine reciprocated romantic feelings for eachother while ALSO literally being named Lord and Lady. They may as well have named them Karen and Ted lmao, and even then, naming them Karen and Ted would still be MORE romantic than naming them Lord and Lady.

They could have named Henry and Patty anything- and yet they chose names that are specifically tied to societal pressure and class expectations, and NOT to genuine romantic feelings. Again, they may as well have named them Heteronormativity 1 and Heteronormativity 2.

I know a lot of Byler enthusiasts aren’t particularly interested in Henry and his queercoding, which is fair, but since we’ve spent the past god knows how long using these same examples (see: Romeo and Juliet) to demonstrate that Mileven isn’t endgame and likely was never actually a genuine romantic relationship with mutual attraction, why should it be any different for Henry and Patty? Hell, Patty, from what we’ve already seen of her audition tapes, seems to have multiple El parallels regarding how both seem to have similar relationships with their mother and a bunch of other dialogue parallels. I won’t be surprised if Henry and Patty not being romantic is being used to prep the GA for Byler endgame and Mileven not being a couple/not being romantic/gay Mike, etc.

Patty and Henry both also come from “noble” families in Hawkins- Patty is the daughter of Father Newby/she’s the preacher’s daughter in a religious town, and Henry, as we know, is the son of the wealthy Creel family who literally owns a mansion. It would make sense for somebody like Father Newby to try and set the two up (especially if he was running low on cash)/push them towards eachother, and Virginia would likely be happy to see her gay outcast son interacting with a girl- a religious girl, the preacher’s daughter no less.

Long story short, so far, all of the evidence points towards Henry and Patty not having a romantic relationship/not having reciprocated romantic feelings for eachother. Lord and lady are titles of obligation and class, not of love or romance or anything of the sort. And that’s not even counting the obvious age discrepancies that I mentioned before, something that TFS can’t just change or handwave away, because it’s been confirmed to be canon material, and Henry’s canon age is 12 in 1959.

And I also just still, genuinely, don’t think that Henry is George- the kid from the audition tape for George looks NOTHING like Henry, and even beyond that, the dialogue and behaviour in that George audition is NOTHING whatsoever like Henry- that snarky George line about ��prom queen,” is leagues away from being anything like what we’ve seen of Henry’s personality, especially as a child.

I won’t be surprised if George is Lonnie or Allen, both of which seem to have “bad boy”/outcast/moody loner personalities, which is exactly what’s described for George, and if Patty fall in love with Lonnie or Allen, but is being pushed towards Henry by Father Newby because Henry’s from a wealthy, religious family. Especially since neither Lonnie’s family nor Allen’s family seem to be wealthy or particularly religious, and we all know that priests are often greedy bastards, which would align perfectly with Father Newby being interested in the Creels’ money.

Especially since Victor was described in the papers as being “generous” in a paragraph that talks about the church:

“Creel was known around town for his generosity, and the Creel Family was regularly seen at Sunday Mass at St. Philip’s Catholic Church on Sundays.”

So, if Victor was known for donating to the church, it makes sense that Father Newby would know that the Creels have money, and may either a.) be playing the long game trying to get Henry and to get married eventually or b.) hoping that Victor’s donations might increase if he has even more of a personal connection to the church via his son dating the prescher’s daughter, especially as Victor clearly loves his son, and Father Newby likely knows this.

And with Henry being gay/having so much gay queercoding, he obviously wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with Patty, so again, I really do think the angle for Henry and Patty’s relationship is more likely to be “people are trying to push Henry and Patty together, but Patty’s in love with somebody that’s ‘below’ her class-wise, and Henry is gay”.

Now, going more into speculation territory, I want to talk about LOTR.

I’ve talked about this briefly before, but while Will definitely has some Frodo parallels, Henry is also definitely, intentionally paralleled to Frodo- hell, Victor has constant Bilbo parallels, and the Creel house has constant Bag End parallels. Will also has some Sam parallels, especially when it comes to class and wealth and family, so Will’s LOTR parallels aren’t as simple as saying He’s Only Frodo/He’s The Only Frodo Coded Character.

And so, keeping the idea of Henry-Frodo parallels in mind:

In LOTR, Sam is of a lower class than Frodo. Frodo is basically Hobbit nobility, whereas Sam is a commoner. And Sam’s dad is the Baggins’ gardener.

And I talked in this post about how the Creels had a gardener and a groundsperson.

And, I’m wondering if Scott’s dad may have been the Creels’ gardener or groundsperson, just like how Sam’s dad was Bilbo’s gardener/groundsperson (which, again, Victor has constant Bilbo parallels). And this would further connect Henry and Patty in a platonic sense/something that parallels them, with both of them being in love with somebody that’s “below” their class- George/Lonnie/Allen in Patty’s case, and Scott in Henry’s case.

And this Henry-Scott idea might not even be part of TFS, because we still have all of S5 to go.

Anyway! There’s some thoughts.

[shipposttt]

The Ship of the Day: Swan Queen

Name: Emma x Regina

Ship name: Swan Queen

Original content: Once Upon a Time (OUAT)

Ship info: Once Upon a Time is a TV show where all of the fairy-tale characters that we know and have been told about all our lives have been cursed by the Evil Queen into our land – the land without magic – and have been frozen in time for 28 years in a small town called Storybrooke. The legend goes that the daughter on Snow White and Prince Charming (the saviour) will come to town and wake everyone up from the curse. Thus, the show starts with Henry, the adopted son of Regina (the evil queen) going to find his birth mother Emma (the saviour/Snow White and Charming’s daughter) and bringing her back to Storybrooke.

Henry (their son) who has found out about the curse through a gifted storybook, spends a long time trying to convince Emma that the curse is real not just a story and that she’s the one that needs to break it. However, Emma has a hard time believing that everyone living in town is a cursed storybook character and only participates in these discussions with Henry to keep him happy.

Emma and Regina’s relationship gets off to a rocky start as Regina immediately begins to feel threatened by Emma, her sons birth mother, and due to the fact that her relationship with Henry is a little fractured during that point in time. It looks like she has nothing to worry about however as Emma vows to leave town that night although on her way out of town she gets run off the road by a wolf ultimately leading to a chain of events that have Emma staying in town. 

During her stay in town Emma spends a lot of time at odds with Regina, they are constantly arguing over Henry (at first), and there is a lot of tension between them when they are making threats to each other and arguing. This arguing however comes to a stop after the fight they have over their son eating a poisoned apple turnover that Regina made for Emma. Emma wakes Henry up with true loves kiss and both mothers are happy their son is not dead. This is arguably the point where their relationship is worst, after this their relationship only gets better. 

After Emma breaks the curse by waking Henry up and true loves kiss magic comes back to Storybrooke. This leads to a lot of instances in which Emma and Regina have to fight together to save the town and their son a lot and even in some instances save each other. There are also many points in the show where people don’t believe that Regina is redeemed and still see her as a villain however Emma has always believed in Regina’s redemption, even going as far as protecting and defending her when Regina is accused of murder. We see moments later on in this show of Emma bringing Regina lunch and the both of them teasing each other which shows how much their relationship has evolved from what it used to be.

There is a lot of tension that can be felt in this teasing and in their ever-present need to save each other and even in simple moment such as Emma declaring that she always knows when Regina is lying and that she wants to help Regina find her happy ending. The move of their relationship from enemies to people who trust one another with their lives – as they have on many occasions – is very important in understanding why these characters are so beloved together. This is because they are both passionate fighters about/for the things that they love and once they get over their differences and realise who similar they actually are, they spend a lot of time fighting to save each other. Even going as far as Emma absorbing the darkness/curse of the dark one in order to save Regina and her goodness.

Additionally, there are also multiple parallels throughout the show both visually and audibly wherein Swan Queen are compared to Snowing (Snow White and Prince Charming) who are a canon heterosexual couple who share two children. Why are moments between Emma and Regina being parallel to a couple in a canon romantic relationship, a couple who are professed to be (canon) romantic True Loves in this show, if Emma and Regina themselves aren’t meant to be in a romantic relationship and/or true loves.

Type of Ship: Queer Bait

Putting aside all of the fairy tale elements and all of the magic in this show, seeing the trope of two people sharing a child implies that by the end of the series these two people will be in a romantic relationship. Instances in which this trope occurs, and the parents have been a man and woman result in a romantic relationship, some examples include: About a Boy (2002), The Switch (2010), Life as We Know It (2010), Love Comes Softly (2003).

In all of these examples the male and female characters who are seen parenting a child together end up in romantic relationships. Why then did the creators of OUAT choose to apply this trope to their show only to have these two parental characters not end up together just because they are both women. They have spent the majority of the show making parenting decisions for their son together, fighting together to save their son and even becoming something resembling a family only for them to not end up together even though if they were a man and a woman instead of both women, they would have ended in a romantic relationship together.

Additionally, there are also instances in the show of prolonged eye contact and wide screen shots of these characters looking at each other. In this same show there are heterosexual characters with examples of the same moment happening that are in or do end up in a romantic relationship. If this is so then why isn’t it the same for Swan Queen, the only difference being that they are both women. The shots of these two characters together are conscious choices made by writers, producers and directors and have been put into the show making people think that what is going to happen is that these characters are going to end up in a romantic relationship, yet they never do! There is no need for creators to tease something that is not going to happen, the only thing that this does is creates outrage from audiences who were invested in this relationship and led to believe that it was a possibility. There have also been instances in which creators have spoken on social media about this ship speculation and actively participating in keeping this audience tuned into the show. They have reeled this audience in only for them to be disappointed by the results. 

Thank you for coming to my ted talk!

Admin 🦈

[rose-tinted-vision]

Once again being annoying about a journey to love on the TL:

I think one reason why I still cannot get over AJTL is because!! of how beautifully and realistically it portrays the relationships between characters, and more importantly, it does not outright shove the main pairing into our faces. their relationship took time to develop which made it more realistic imo, and is a nice contrast to a lot of shows these days that seem to have characters falling in love in the span of two episodes.

(I've made a tl;dr a while ago here)

Episode 7

As in- the main couple is shown quite a bit, yes. They get their fair share of screentime, but the drama also focuses on the friendships between the liudaotang squad, the sibling dynamics between NYZ and YY and how it parallels with RRY and LTG.

It really highlights the different kinds of love that one person can have in this life, like the platonic love between YSS and NYZ (imo), the familial love between YL and NYZ, the romantic love between RRY and NYZ, all of it really balances out and i love that.

Then there is also the fked up obsessive love that LTG has for RRY, and the drama shows that you can still recover from that (we are ignoring ep 37 here), it shows that you can still move on from that and grow from there- you may not necessarily forget them and that is okay.

Episode 26, 36 "my master is the only woman I'll ever love."

Then theres also the love for the country, embodied by how LTG and YY entered a loveless marriage for the sake of their countries (ep 37), and for the sake of protecting what their loved ones are fighting (and died) for.

It is also, arguably, shown by how Qian Zhao died to save the King's life for the sake of maintaining peace in Wu, even though his entire objective was to kill the King.

Another thing I really liked was the emphasis they gave to Yang Ying's relationships, her attempts at finding love and the way they validate her feelings about it- she had just realised how much of a scumbag Zheng Qingyun is, eventually moved on to slowly having feelings for Yuan Lu, but entered a political marriage with Li Tongguang in the end- and she's still so young.

"As long as you gave a clear conscience, even if a woman has only loved one person, or loved multiple people in her life, she still deserves respect"

(Lastly, there's Yu Shisan who's like. the embodiment of love in this drama- not just because of his flirtatious nature, but its in those small scenes that really shows how deeply he loves.

There's the start of the show, where he volunteers to take the punishment in Yang Ying's steed (ep 6),

then there's the episode where NYZ clarifies to Ruyi that it's because YSS is too worried that he is acting indifferent (ep 8). Then there's all the scenes where he periodically checks up on NYZ (ep 10, 31, etc), his concern for Ruyi putting all her eggs in one basket (ep 20ish), the talk between him and JMN where she admits that YSS treated her well (ep 30).

And then there's his death. There's this wonderful post that has been haunting me for months. How do you save Yu Shisan, when half the people he loves is dead? How do you save him when, even if he survives, would not allow himself the love that he gives away so freely? (see: first half of episode 39)).

Just know that this show has me feral over it's brilliant writing. They got me from the very beginning when they portrayed NYZ's emotional intelligence and acceptance of RRY and his consideration for her. (and when they introduced Yuan Lu. I went: that's my blorbo from this show).

[tonydaddingham]

25 lazarii

so ive been thinking on neils ask and answer about the joint miracle crowley and aziraphale performed. now the way it could read is that the two didn't used to have the power of resurrection/power that is capable of resurrection, but now they do. but could also read that they didn't (as is, retrospectively from now) have the power, because it doesn't belong to them. it's this latter possibility that im going to look at because honestly? the whole thing feels to me a bit OP.

so i realise that it's not necessarily about resurrection as an act, but instead the potential to resurrect. regardless, im going to start from key moments of resurrection as a marker for their abilities:

first notion we have in s1, exactly as neil remarks, is aziraphale is able to revive a dove after warlock's birthday party. originally, this was crowley in the book (and was reportedly swapped for blocking reasons), so im going by the show only in this post to keep consistency:

and this is supported by crowley intimating in the resurrectionist minisode that aziraphale was too late to save morag - that he could only have helped when she was still alive but instead she died whilst aziraphale was dithering:

in fact, to me, the only time i can recall in GO (ie shout at me if wrong) we see anyone successfully resurrected is by adam, and this is marked by the reappearance of my beloved lesley, the international express delivery man:

"Adam had rebooted reality... people who were dead were now alive, and things that were broken were miraculously restored."

the only issue appears to be that crowley now seems to be able to exercise a power of resurrection in s2, where he appears to 'bring back' mr brown, and do so rather confidently as if he always had this kind of power...

this confidence would mirror what he says to shax, here:

although, whilst it may be implied that mr brown was killed by the demon, we only truly see him being hurtled through the air. and, whilst crowley appears to bluff that demons can't hurt humans directly, shax appears to believe him.

now, she could have just come to the resolution that they ought to kill mr brown anyway, rules (fake or not) be damned, but the fact that we don't actually see his death intimates that shax might have just toed the line (the demons yeeted him across the street, but was he technically hurt/killed? was shax responding with her own bluff when saying, "civilian casualty"?)

edit 21/08 - IM SMUG

ergo: was mr brown truly killed in the first place, and therefore did crowley truly resurrect him? i think the majority of people are going to say yes, and i would initially agree, but then we come to the below where crowley appears to have riddled it out:

now it could be a case of s2 giving us the 'what' (they are insanely powerful when working together), but the 'why' (eg. power of being essentially soulmates, love, two halves of the same whole etc.) is what is going to be determined in s3.

but the conclusion that crowley came to (and im thinking entirely with critical-noggin-topped-by-tinfoil-hat head on here) feels a bit odd in the sense that it would be that simple, and doubly-odd that at this point narratively - the series that is meant to set up s3 - that the answer would be given here.

it is a parallel to the fact that crowley and aziraphale seem to work best in cohesion - their body swap proved that somewhat - and the miracle is another example of where working together does work, but neither of them are at the character-development point yet of actually recognising it for what it is and means.

it's definitely the romantic, poetic option - that they are powerful because they do it together - and for that reason i definitely think there's some truth to it, but one of the vibes i got from s2 from multiple set pieces is that things are not initially as they seem. a couple of those things appear to have been resolved (gabriel/beelzebub, for example) but there are a load of chekhov's guns left lying around the metaphorical armoury, and i have to wonder if this is one that we all thought was decommissioned.

i want to also add that the gabriel miracle, in terms of set up, directly mirrors the facing down of satan. a key difference is that in s1, they are holding hands with the literal son of satan, whereas in s2, they are holding hands with a former archangel that doesn't appear to have any power whatsoever:

now, a miracle wasn't performed in the airfield scene (as far as we saw anyway, but potentially not counting adam's ability to retcon papa-dear), but this is directly after aziraphale names adam as 'human incarnate.' furthermore, this incredibly astute observation on the power of names by @rudeaziraphale highlights that adam, by definition of his given name, is meant to be human incarnate, and always was. and then we take into account crowley's line at the end of s1:

"For my money, the really big one is all of us, against all of them."

"What? Heaven and hell, against... humanity?"

so actually, is this what the miracle comes down to? that the power they exhibited is not just crowley and aziraphale together, but them, and humanity binding them together? crowley and aziraphale were always meant to be the same character - we know this from when neil has talked about the initial drafts he sent to terry - but actually are they truly whole without the entity that made them, influenced them, into who and what they are now?

the last thing i'll note is neil's earlier march ask here, which indicates that to bring someone back from the dead is a 'heavier weight than they could lift'. that may well just simply reference that together they could do it, absolutely, but i have to wonder if there is a secret third ingredient in the mix as well.

[in-deep]

Mike is straight. Byler endgame would come out of nowhere for his character.

I'm getting really frustrated with some reasons people use to rebut byler proof... The main one being this one.

I could argue extensively that Mike is queer. It is written subtextually all over the show - Mike is not like other straight characters in the show, and there are multiple parallels to queer-coded characters. If you took off your heteronormative rose-tinted glasses, you might be able to pick up on some of what the show is showing you, rather than explicitly telling you.

But even if he was explicitly shown to be straight! Why is it that in media queer characters always need to be explicitly queer from the beginning? Otherwise it's bait or fan service or bad writing? Queer people are allowed to discover themselves and figure themselves out! In fact that in and of itself is great representation! Mike's queer story would probably be really relatable to many!

PLUS! Do NOT try and tell me that Mileven were built up romantically in a natural way. First time I watched the show (January! I was very late to it ahah) Mileven actually shocked me a little - I knew they were going to date later, but it felt so random and almost a little like they didn't know what they were doing. I personally felt like they only kissed because Mike felt like that's what he was meant to do.

Lucas teasing him about only talking about El (when really Mike only talked about El as a means to get to Will, his main priority). Nancy telling Mike she thought he liked her (and Mike immediately denies it). El asking if he'll be like her brother (no. it's different... i mean, i guess its not). And then he kisses her after that?

Quite frankly, if Mike and Eleven are endgame they wrote them so weirdly. Like made some really weird writing choices (bad ones) that are too many to even get to in this post, but I am working on a really lengthy analysis on the bad writing of Mike/El (and why that's so brilliant).

AND!!!! Mike and Will are the classic example of the childhood friends to lovers trope. One common example of this trope is shown in character A being in love with character B (and has been for a while). Character B usually has another love interest, character C who is either mysterious or popular. Usually a scene where character B says "oh. A and I are just friends." while we see character A looking sad. Character B & C have some sort of relationship, but eventually it fails and in the midst of that relationship falling a part, character B realises that character A has been there all along.

Now, I personally believe Mike has feelings for Will and has had them for a while. But, even if he didn't. Don't try and tell me this wouldn't be completely fine for a straight couple. But suddenly, when they're queer, it's poor writing and fan service. Yet again, queer media is held to much higher standards that heteronormative straight media.

Anyway. In short. Byler endgame. Byler supremacy. Byler is love, Byler is life. Amen.

[modern-day-classic]

It's been three months and I am still very much puzzled by how the creative team decided to end Ted Lasso for it's main characters. I will not be touching on tedbecca at all here cause for me that isn't why I'm left still feeling so confused and let down by decisions made. So in true me fashion I am gifting you all another essay in which I work through why this still sits as incredibly underwhelming and unsatisfactory for me.

The creatives behind the show have always been very adamant that this was a story told in 3 parts. Perfect we love that. It means they have a clear beginning (intro & initial conflict), middle (dark forest aka working through the conflict) and end (conflict resolution & conclusion). This is cookie cutter narrative structure we should be good!

If we break this down into seasons we have:

The Beginning aka Season 1: The beginning of a story should very clearly introduce the genre of the story, the main characters, the heroes (Ted and you could argue Rebecca fits this description too) the setting and then the conflict and stakes. This was done perfectly and very early on we are introduced to the conflict at the crux of the show, Rebecca's revenge plot against Rupert and the demise of his beloved football team. This is information not privy to all character and we watch as the season progresses to the point where the conflict is realised by everyone involved - in this instance the first truth bomb.

The Middle aka Season 2: Season 2 is in every aspect the middle of the story. It's not only the middle season, but the middle part of the narrative structure whereby the heroes set out to resolve the conflict (Rebecca's attempt to sink the team), it is their dark forest if you will. The middle part of the story should be where the main action takes place. We see the fallout from the conflict and Rebecca's confession to Ted. While he did forgive her instantly he is very clearly hurt by it (coupled with the demise of his marriage yes) we see Ted pull away from Rebecca and the obvious strain in their budding friendship (idk what you'd call it nothing really feels right). This is most notable in the missed phonecall and ignored voice message post Ted's panic attack. All the key pieces of the story should begin to take shape in this portion of the narrative (I'm talking all the Ted x Rebecca parallels etc (I'm not even touching on if they were ever meant to be a romantic hint that's not the point of this)) and set themself out for a nice bow to be tied closing them all out in the next part of the narrative.

The End aka Season 3: This is simply the resolution to the conflict, the portion of the story where our heroes confront their issue. At the end of the story, the narrative should be complete, characters should be settled into the new normal post conflict resolution and all loose ends tied up in a satisfying manner for the viewer. AND THIS IS WHERE THE WHEELS FEEL OFF THE TED LASSO NARRATIVE ARC.

Season 3 should have seen the carefully planted plot points come together. We should have seen Rebecca and Ted overcome the slight estrangement. We should have seen them learn of their connections. We should have seen them achieve their goal to "win the whole fucking thing". We should have seen all the open storylines from seasons 1 and 2 come to a conclusion, be it nice or not that's not the point they should be complete.

INSTEAD we saw the two main characters, the heroes of this narrative be neglected and relegated to, for the most part, periphery characters. Ted has no significant storyline in season 3 outside of the Sunflowers episode and even then it was secondary to everyone else. Rebecca was removed from a lot of the action on multiple occasions getting (this is just a guess I refuse to go watch it to figure it out for real) 10 minutes of screentime in an episode, and not appearing until 15 minutes in on some occasions. Yes we still saw her but it was mostly on her own. This isn't conducive with having the time to close out all the little breadcrumbs and storylines woven for them in the first 2 seasons EVEN WITH the extended episode run times. Rather we had a million new storylines introduced and with them an abundance of new characters. The ending of the story isn't a place for this.

The creative team seems to have forgotten the key part of an ending: the narrative should be complete, characters should be settled into the new normal post conflict resolution and all loose ends tied up in a satisfying manner for the viewer. Yes we saw a conclusion for each, but both Rebecca and Ted's endings were rushed and last minute pieces of information thrown at us. I could have walked away (yes disappointed) but satisfied with Ted going back to Kansas if that's what season 3 was showing me he needed. They instead had taken great care to show how engrained into Richmond and the football club Ted was. So how as a viewer am I meant to be satisfied with his abrupt return to Kansas. As for Rebecca, her want for a second chance at love was always a key element of her storyline. Did I ship tedbecca, yes? would I have been happy with her finding love even if it wasn't a tedbecca endgame? also yes BUT I, as a viewer needed to buy into the love interest, not just have some new character we've hardly seen supposedly be her endgame. We needed to have been brought along on the journey here and not just had it thrown in at the last second.

So what this mammoth essay has made me realise is, my dissatisfaction as how Ted Lasso ended is due to the fact that NOTHING was closed out. No storylines properly ended. No conflict properly resolved and our heroes not shown as settled into their new normal. The creative team for whatever reason didn't follow through on basic narrative storytelling framework and as a result left behind a show with no proper ending.

[moetxt]

zhongven and zhongscara for the ship bingo (guess who this is 😏

i see you 👁️

ah, zhongscara...

for me, it started with mine and a friend's determination to have our faves kiss zhongli, but i only got further enabled when someone else pointed out parallels i didn't even see initially. i'm proud to be one of the 13 people who ships it 😁

though, to be honest, i really prefer them in a non-romantic context. in my eyes, they're friends with a compatible worldview and REALLY REALLY compatible kinks. scara would never admit this to his face but he sees zhongli as one of the precious few people in the world competent enough to dom him. meanwhile, on zhongli's side, he enjoys very much how scara lets him do what he does best, to the fullest; most people wouldn't be able to handle it, after all.

i think romance is the one major thing they disagree on. scara with his trust issues cannot COMPREHEND how zhongli is still willing to put his whole heart into loving someone even after getting hurt multiple times in the past.

now... you knew this was coming.

zhongven my BELOVED!!! they've been happily married for 2,000 years. they have an angsty on-again/off-again open relationship thing but neither of them thinks it's enough and also they get jealous. they've been mutually pining for millennia to the point that there is plentiful evidence of how down bad they are for each other in both their countries' mythology/folklore/traditions/ancient artifacts/archaeological sites but they've never once actually admitted they're in love with one another. as gods, they can't love as humans do and as divine manifestations of their elements and ideals, they're natural opposites locked in an eternal stalemate of courtship; can't tie down the wind, can't whisk away the earth. they've divorced at least 300 times. they're bitter exes and ei is the only one left alive who can tell you all about it (she will not).

unlike other ships i've been obsessed with in the past, it's hard for me to remove zhongven from their canon context, or at the very least a context where they are still divine/immortals. the divine opposites thing is just so key to me—they way they shouldn't get along, they shouldn't understand each other, but nonetheless they do. also, exploring edge cases of locality-specific or occupation-specific dual worship that occurs when morax's and barbatos' domains meet. like, how ancient northern liyuens knew to scatter dandelion seeds along with their prayers to make earthquakes during the spring and summer go away because it was probably the geo lord sulking and missing his beloved. or how sailors whisper a prayer or two to the god of wind for safe travels as where rex lapis' domain does not extend, they instead hope for the protection of his "bride" :)

actually, i am writing a whole fic about this! it's an epistolary-styled story filled with outsider accounts of how morax and barbatos just keep popping up, directly or indirectly, in each other's mythology. it's also about zhongli intentionally messing with the historical record in attempt to bring more of this to light because he's sulky about venti not visiting him for 500 years lol.

but yeah, the gods aspect is quite important to me and my view of them is so specific that i tend to be picky when it comes to fics, especially if they are AUs.

finally, as you know, i have more than a couple of crack theories/shipper delusion when it comes to zhongven and wider genshin lore. (descender zhongli and shade of istaroth venti my beloved!!!) namely, that venti warned zhongli about the cataclysm beforehand due to his god of time/celestia connections, but didn't warn the others, and that's why there was a near pantheon wipeout and the tsaritsa hates him now while zhongli carries so much guilt. also, that zhongli retired godhood at least partly due to venti, leaving his country to the humans (just like venti had done all along), and because he regretted how he always prioritized work and didn't treasure what he had until venti disappeared for his 500y coma.

"the end of godhood" is a really fascinating concept to me, as is what their relationship could turn out like in the future. they aren't gods anymore, but they're not exactly humans either, and no one else can really understand them like they understand each other. a lot of the obstacles in the way of them being together are now gone, but they now also carry new scars. i have a fic vaguely drafted centering around this too.

hehe, thanks for giving me the excuse to talk at length about them! 💞

[marshmallow-bg3]

Durge ask game questions: general + post-nautiloid edition.

19. Has your Dark Urge become particularly close to anyone romantically and/or platonically in their journey? If so, who, and what is the relationship like? If no, why not?

Astarion - close romantically. They hit it off from the start even before all the bloody reveals. They are on the same wavelength, both being chaotic bloodthirsty rogues with dubious morality, multiple layers of trauma and personal horror and gentle hearts somewhere underneath it all. "Two souls walking the same path" unironically. It does help that Astarion's seduction techniques work exceptionally well on desperate Bhaalspawn with latent praise kink.

Karlach - close platonically. She reminds Roux of someone he can't quite remember - his foster sister - loud, brave little tomboy who protected the puny nonverbal half-elf from bullies. He doesn't remember her face, but he does remember the feeling, and Karlach totally radiates the same aura of heartiness and safety. She's the best friend to Astarion. With Roux it's complicated - there's is this secret grudge after killing Gortash under a lot of pressure from Karlach that he hides well. Roux loves Karlach and wants what's best for her, but there's that.

Gale - close platonically. "The hand that feeds is the hand that's loved". Roux doesn't really get half of the nerdy stuff Gale dumps on him, but he's genuinely drawn to Gale's kindness and care. He thinks Gale is precious - yes, also megalomaniac and narcissistic, but it's hardly big vices in Roux's book - and must be protected at all costs. Ok, maybe it's not that platonic. Post-game Roux and Astarion can't deny their crush on professor Dekarios and trying to seduce the hot teacher is a fun constant game for the three of them.

Halsin - close physically. They exist on completely different levels mentally, they have little in common and not much to talk about. However between constant headache, sleep deprivation and a series of existential crises Roux often approaches Halsin for help and comfort and finds himself in close physical contact with the druid - soothing touches, bear hugs, falling asleep next to him. Mutual attraction stems from there, but it doesn't grow into anything more profound and remains just a pleasant memory of shared warmth and affection. (Astarion's relationship with Halsin remains pleasantly neutral throughout it.)

Shadowheart - it's complicated. They both start with massive memory loss. At first Roux is disproportionately repulsed by the Sharran's religious zeal. But as he remembers more and more of himself he realizes just how much Shadowheart reminds him of his own time in the cult he never truly belonged in. It happens around the same time Shadowheart learns the truth about herself. Their parallel self-discoveries reveal how similar and relatable their stories are. In a way Roux sees a reflection of Orin in her - a little sister he could have had. The point is - they start to build their genuine relationship closer to the end of their journey against Absolute. By the time they meet in the epilogue it's still work in progress with a lot of potential for found family.

Lae'zel - neutral. The fun part is that Roux is a submissive type in general and when someone talks to him with the level of unadulterated authority Lae'zel demonstrated from the moment they met all he can do is obey. It takes some time to realize she's just a young girl with a severe case of janitor's syndrome. Roux doesn't hold it against her, but finds it hard to bond with her anyway. Lae'zel is a good, trusted, valued ally, but not quite a friend.

Wyll - neutral. Roux thinks Wyll is too idealistic and half-expects his principles to crumble under duress. But when they don't, he develops genuine respect and admiration for Wyll's integrity. May have written a couple of comical songs about their adventures with the Blade of Frontieres as the protagonist, but nothing offensive. Wyll finds them funny. In the end Wyll is Karlach's boyfriend to them more than any of his other roles and titles.

Jaheira - ooof, they clash! Jaheira likes to troll and patronize. Roux likes to troll and doesn't like to be patronized. Jaheira doesn't like to be trolled. Every time they interact one or the other disapproves. She claims to know all about Bhaalspawn and Roux is having none of it. Sarevok didn't stay dead, Orin and Roux himself existed and she had no idea. What kind of expert that makes her? Besides, Jaheira doesn’t try to get to know or understand Roux outside of his bloodline - it's like talking to a wall.

Minsc - neutral. Roux has no idea how to react to Minsc most of the time so he just avoids the man. Too unpredictable.

[daniclaytcn]

(Different anon) the jo/mallory scene is such an interesting thing to bring up when talking about the finale because when the ep aired it confused me a lot because i wasn’t really sure what they were trying to say with that parallel, and i didn’t get why the fandom still liked it in the context of buddie being canon. yes they bring up how much jo and mallory love each other and how much mallory loved jo’s mother the same way buck loves christopher and eddie but it also seemed very platonic in nature.

i swear i don’t mean this as a bad-faith interpretation and i don’t think it was malicious at all but it felt like they were pigeonholing buck into the role of ‘dad’s best friend’ instead of…idk. chris’s second parent. i’m very open to having my mind changed but that scene has always bugged me bc it felt like a way to say that buck deeply loves eddie and chris but ‘platonic best friend’ is all it’ll ever be.

i dunno, if you have a different opinion i’d really love to hear it because i’ve always felt a little crazy for not loving that parallel like the rest of the fandom does (including the people that still hope for buddie canon).

the point of this scene, in my opinion, was to draw attention to the similarities between jo/mallory and buck/chris/eddie. and the most blatant similarity, of course, is that in both cases, you have two best friends who loved each other very much, and one of them entrusted the other with the care of their child. this is true of both dynamics and especially so of buck and eddie, given that their relationship hasn't turned romantic yet. it's not necessarily to make a statement that 'buck is only chris' dad's best friend' and he will only every be that. if that was the only point the show wanted to make, they could just have chris refer to buck as "uncle buck" and put an end to the whole question. lol.

i think that...the jo/mallory scene can't, and shouldn't be read in isolation without taking the entire context surrounding buddie into account (and this goes for pretty much any other scene imo). while interpreting it, we also need to take into account the way the rest of buck, eddie and christopher's story has been written. the themes surrounding them, and the many, many times they have been paralleled to the canon couples on the show—which is far more than the number of times they have been paralleled to any of the platonic/familial ones.

i mean, this is just my interpretation. and yours is perfectly valid, too! there are multiple ways to read this scene. i just think that this fandom tends to fall into the habit of failing to read storylines or arcs as a whole, just taking individual scenes and reading them only in those contexts, and that is something we should try and avoid, so that we don't write off the actual potential in the story.