#why is there a gay person in my chinese donghua

[why-has-god-forsaken-me]

Bro has been here for less than an episode and already made his move 😭

[thenanamisimp]

This isn't something I've really done much since I started this blog but I really wanted to discuss this week’s TGCF episode.

This is your spoiler warning!!

Heaven official's blessing season 2, episode 6 spoilers but there are also discussions of the respective scenes from volume 2 so if you haven't finished reading the novel, I'd suggest maybe not reading this post.

For context, I saw a user on twitter discuss how the donghua has been adapting Hua Cheng's display of emotions towards Xie Lian.

Source

I also saw another user discuss the difference between how the novel/audio drama and the donghua have been showing Hua Cheng expressing emotions.

(I can't share the source as the OP is now private on twitter)

While I haven't actually listened to the audio drama and I'm only on my first re-read of TGCF, these posts inspired me and I have thoughts and opinions that I need to share before I implode (one day it’ll happen I swear).

The scene the posters are talking about is after hcg saves xl from the heavenly Xianle palace, where they talk about what happened at paradise manor (aka xl apologising for burning down the armoury and lying to hcg about the earth master and hcg apologising for hurting xl’s arm).

In the donghua, we see hcg very obviously upset. He appears obviously and genuinely very sad about having hurt xl, even with the whole incident having been an accident. The distress in his eyes and voice is evident and clear-cut, seeming perhaps even a bit childish. In contrast, when reading this scene in the novel, while hcg definitely comes across upset, his distress appears a bit more calm and collected and he instead truly seems like a responsible adult who made a mistake and is sincerely apologetic for it to xl.

I believe that there’s multiple reasons why the dongua team chose to show hcg’s emotions in the way that they did. In my opinion, a reason why they could’ve chosen to do it this way is because of censorship. Now hear me out; clearly as a western fan I can’t speak much on Chinese censorship as I’m not highly knowledgable on the subject. However, I’d like to believe that the producing team is trying to work around the censorship laws in their own way. By making hcg’s emotions a little more over-the-top and obvious, it’s a lot easier for us as the viewer, especially queer fans that might understand queer dynamics better than others, to see and pick up on the subtext of what those exaggerated emotions mean while never having to be said out loud. And yes, we could argue that for those of us who have read the novel, it’s easier to recognise those subtle moments of vulnerability even if hcg’s reaction was made as ambiguous as it is in the book, because we have a lot more context. We have to remind ourselves that Hualian’s love story is never gonna be shown in the donghua in the same as the novel and people who are new to the story won't pick up on their relationship as easily.

As someone who hand’t heard of TGCF until Netflix licensed the donghua in my region (in 2021 I think?), I actually highly appreciate this difference in hcg’s character in the donghua. And while I don’t appreciate queerbaiting, watching season 1 made me search for the original source material and ended up with 8 very expensive books on my shelf (it took me 2 years to find volume 2 in stock somewhere…. 2 YEARS because I refuse to buy from amazon). San Lang (specifically referring to hcg’s form in volume 1 or season 1) is definitely slightly more aloof and energetic than hcg in his real form, so I do believe that his adaptation in season 1 was a lot more true to the source than season 2 seems to be.

My personal opinion is that, we need to view the donghua with a little more leniency as they have limits to the scenes they will be adapting later on (if the donghua doesn’t get dropped. Let us all pray together) and they have to make some things a little more obvious (but still no homo) to keep as much of the gay factor as they can without getting, you know, arrested. At the end of the day, it comes down to us what we prefer to consume and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with people preferring one over the other. It's valid to prefer hcg in the novels and it's valid to also enjoy hcg's donghua adaptation, even if he's different and not completely true to the OG material.

Now when it comes to the whole “making xl seem oblivious thing”…. The jury is still out on this one I’m afraid. This was the final scene of the latest episode meaning, we don’t actually know how they’re gonna adapt the following scenes and this could very heavily affect the way xl reacts from here on. An adaptation is just that and like mentioned before, the donghua team has to make decisions on how to adapt things due to censorship. And at the end of the day, I think this is an interesting take on xl’s character as one of the biggest parts of his character is how he struggles to accept love and care from other people so one can argue that… He actually is oblivious in this scene? Especially at this point in the story considering he’s known hcg for like, a week, 2 weeks max (do not quote me on that, I haven’t actually calculated, I am lazy. Point is, he hasn’t known him for very long at this point in time). And while I would for sure be a bit disappointed if he still is presented like this later on in the story, we’re still too early into it to criticise the donghua over this and future scenes that haven’t even been touched yet. It’s not in any way fair to base our opinions on the upcoming scenes on a singular 2 minute clip of Hualian’s interaction.

So, I have said my peace. Please remember that everything I’ve discussed is purely my opinion and not fact, so take this post with a grain of salt. I’d actually love to discuss this further with people so please send asks if you have anything to add!

(This is also another good post to read about the censorship stuff I talked about in this post. I like how this user phrased it.)

Once again, thank you for reading a (lengthy for once) ramble!

theNanamiSimp

[best-underrated-anime]

Best Underrated Anime Group E Round 2: #E1 vs #E2

#E1: Dead people are revived with souls from the future. Hilarity and angst ensue.

#E2: Psychic girl is adopted by Yakuza. Hijinks ensue.

Details and poll under the cut!

#E1: Are You Ok (You Yao)

Summary:

People from the modern world transmigrating (Chinese version of isekai) into the ancient Chinese fantasy world has become a common and everyday occurrence that the royal court in the latter has decided to moderate them. If you’re a transmigrator, you must report your existence to Lou Zhu, the master of Best Tower. Once you pass his test and prove that you are indeed a modern person, you can then be assigned to work in different areas of the government and be given a high salary.

Because of this promised benefit, many impostors have showed up before Lou Zhu. And one day, Zuo Yunqi shows up for this test. Is he an impostor, or is he an actual modern person?

But some transmigrators also choose to hide their existence out of distrust in the government. Where are they? And with their advanced knowledge on science and technology, what are they planning in the dark?

Propaganda:

The setting is a genius mix of ancient and modern. Lou Zhu’s tower looks like an ancient Chinese building on the outside, but on the inside it’s like a hotel, complete with different entertainment venues and even a milk tea shop! And of course, what’s a hotel without an elevator? But since electricity isn’t invented yet, it’s just powered by different men (in fancy uniforms) on bicycles.

You’d expect that the locals would have some amount of horror, sadness, and grief over dead people coming back to life and moving and talking as if nothing has happened. Except there isn’t; at least, not much. They’ve gotten used to it. Life still has to go on, so why not enjoy it?

On one hand, You Yao shows us the transmigrators’ lives and how they cope in this unfamiliar world. Often in isekai/transmigration stories, the locals are portrayed as “backward” and “ignorant” to highlight the modern character’s supposed intelligence. But in You Yao, the two parties have an equal relationship. Transmigrators still have to follow the laws set by the Emperor, and their modern knowledge doesn't always prove to be useful. Unless they can invent novel things despite limited materials, their knowledge often fails to set them apart. I mean, what are you gonna do when you’re an art student whose only talent is drawing p*rn but people expect you to cook??? Or how about when you’re literate in Simplified Chinese but can’t read the locals’ Traditional Chinese text? Or what about when your soul ends up in the body of a mosquito instead???

Even with a high salary from the Emperor, being a transmigrator is not that easy. And as the show unfolds, we find that there’s more to them than comedic figures. 

On the other hand, You Yao is also about the locals and how they have to adapt to their fast-changing world. My favorite among them is Lin Kai. He has fully embraced the changes that he’s become akin to a transmigrator in his knowledge of the modern world. He’s not prominent in the novel, but the donghua treated him with a full musical sequence when he was about to confess to his crush 😂. As the only straight character, they probably had to highlight his love story to let the BL go under the radar—Oh, have I mentioned this show is a BL with several pairs?

Chinese censorship won’t allow the gay to be explicit, but they managed to still make it very fruity. The s1 ending song is literally about the second pair, Li Ke and Zhou Rongqi (aka Prince Yu).

Then there’s the animation style, which is a hybrid of 2D and 3D CGI. People not used to 3D anime may wince at this, but it’s actually common in China. You Yao’s style works quite well for it, too, giving it a distinctive flair.

To sum it up, You Yao is a compelling show that deconstructs the isekai/transmigration genre. If you’re after comedy with depth and an overarching plot, this is the show for you. There’s also some gay romantic angst sprinkled throughout, giving you lots of materials for fanfiction 😎

Trigger warnings: Guns, kidnapping, and imprisonment. Nothing too dark, though.

#E2: Hinamatsuri

Summary:

While reveling in the successful clinching of a prized vase for his collection, Yoshifumi Nitta, a yakuza member, is rudely interrupted when a large, peculiar capsule suddenly materializes and falls on his head. He opens the capsule to reveal a young, blue-haired girl, who doesn't divulge anything about herself but her name—Hina—and the fact that she possesses immense powers. As if things couldn't get any worse, she loses control and unleashes an explosion if her powers remain unused. Faced with no other choice, Nitta finds himself becoming her caregiver.

Propaganda 1:

Hinamatsuri is about…

Hina, who is a psychic metaphor for autism ala Mob but imo better. She’s not only a weirdgirl who’s friends are almost all other strange girls, but she’s also into stuff that is just so either unfitting for her age or she’s just really intense about.

Nitta, who deserves all the fangirls and husbando-ing that every other random guy in anime gets. He’s a bachelor who loves pottery and can cook so well that Hina convinces her friends they have a gourmet chef working for them. He’s also a yakuza and is beloved by the aniki for being incredibly tough and scary. (He is gentle as hell with Hina.)

A bunch of other weird girls (Admin: this part of the propaganda has been cut due to possible spoilers)

Propaganda 2:

Hinamatsuri is an absolutely hilarious anime with some of the best comic timing I’ve ever seen. It’s so funny, the various girls are such nonsense.

Hina starts as a violent blank slate and develops into a lazy greedy horrible little gremlin. Anzu starts as a prideful edgy rival but eventually becomes a wholesome overly grateful insecure mess. Hitomi is forced to become more and more competent, independent, and adult because she can't stand up for herself and say no to people asking her for favors.

Nitta is a fantastic viewpoint character because he outwardly takes so much in stride that it’s easy to forget how annoyed and stressed everything makes him until he snaps.

Trigger Warnings: There is child nudity, but only for a Terminator reference. There is some comedic child neglect and slapstick. There is a child who is homeless, but it’s treated very sensitively.

When reblogging and adding your own propaganda, please tag me @best-underrated-anime so that I’ll be sure to see it.

If you want to criticize one of the shows above to give the one you’re rooting for an advantage, then do so constructively. I do not tolerate groundless hate or slander on this blog. If I catch you doing such a thing in the notes, be it in the tags or reblogs, I will block you.

Know one of the shows above and not satisfied with how they’re presented in this tournament? Just fill up this form, where you can submit revisions for taglines, propaganda, trigger warnings, and/or video.

[hopefull-mindset]

Hello. I had another question. Would you say the way the relationships/interactions are written between the characters in BSD would be considered queerbaiting?

Technically by definition I would personally say yes, however there's usually a negative connotation that comes with queerbaiting that's related to harming the queer community so I was wondering if you had a more nuanced approach to the topic.

Queerbait… ah my worst enemy of a term has struck again. Mind if I add the Queer Coding discussion into this as well? Because when I see one person denounce the idea of Queer Coding in BSD, another person goes “oh yeah, it’s actually Queerbait”. No offense, but nobody knows what they’re talking about with either term and I understand why. I have my hangups about how they've been used and the blur between them causing this confusion.

I didn’t even realize this was something people argued about because I didn’t think there was enough to argue queer intent anywhere. I’m generally used to vague queer representation getting these types of arguments, so I blanked out with confusion.

For those who don’t know, Queerbait is a term coined to refer to marketing strategies that use the “implied” queerness to market their content to an audience who are interested in that to view their content. Of course, they don’t actually follow through on that “promise” for the sake of their viewership not being disturbed. Maybe they'll put some hints in their little show, and then kill them off when the time is ripe.

That’s where most of its negative connotations come from: Taking advantage of a marginalized group’s need for representation to improve their ratings. People use this… very incorrectly, usually when someone is clearly using Queer Coding in their work and get accused of Queerbait when they don’t follow through with an explicit romantic relationship.

Queer Coding is when a creator writes subtextual hints into their writing that a character or relationship is meant to be read as gay to bypass censorship or stigma within the media they’re writing in. Usually with signals that a gay audience can catch onto or romantic references in plain sight. While technically not the greatest example since MDZS is a danmei, the Donghua wasn't exactly allowed to fully present their relationship for what it was. Surprisingly, they added a scene where a move of Wei Wuxian’s colored both his and Lan Wangji’s robes red to resemble Chinese wedding garments.

I only chose that example because I think it's a great representation of details in plain sight. But then there's the other way I've seen Queer Coding get used and that's in queer analysis where we read a narrative or character as gay because of their distinct traits or plotline that resonates with LGBTQ+ audiences. It gets confusing when people use it both ways, but fandom usually uses it the first way.

I'm a bit bitter when I talk about these two terms because of how often the overlap confuses audiences, and god knows how loosely Queer Coding gets used to describe some vague, homoerotic friendship while the other side starts accusing the author of Queerbait. Then you start questioning if the author was really trying to take advantage of the community, wanted to explore sexuality without commitment, or literally didn't realize what they wrote could be interpreted like that because of how it chooses to write intimacy. It gets messy FAST.

Ah, how do I say this… I get the outrage of not having explicit representation more often, but when Queerbait starts getting used to describing the writing itself rather than just the promotional marketing, it starts losing all meaning to me and becomes a scab on my back. It generalizes the intent of the writer and assumes them in this box of malicious motivations. Then there's the whole argument of whether or not real people can “queerbait”, which is also stupid to me.

The examples people bring up don't even hold up (starts using t.A.T.u in your examples for once because… wow) and a majority only apply this to fictional content because of the super-secret rule to Queerbait. Usually, it can't work because then that assumes the sexuality of the person in question and they fully well could just be non-disclosed queer who's exploring their sexuality, but then what makes the writer a problem? What's stopping you from confusing Queer Coding with Queerbait?? It's different when it's obvious that they're using the queer identity for a quick browny point, but Jesus.

The way fandom uses it is not in these really obvious moments, but in ambiguous writing. I don't understand any of this when we start straying into this territory and I'm trying not to get mad when I'm currently talking about this right now. I am already mad, I failed. Maybe it's just a personal feeling, but I really don't like this term for these reasons. It's useful, but kind sucks. I can go on forever about Queerbait and the misusage of it, and even the way I think its used currently is bullshit anyway, but I digress.

Right right, this is about Bungou Stray Dogs. As you could guess from my rant, I don't think Asagiri is queerbaiting us if you mean it in the “queerbait writing” crowd. So what about Studio Bones?

Bones, well… I mean it's really common for animation studios to draw official art like this and since Queerbait is more of a Western concept, this is understood as just fanservice I think. You can technically count this as Queerbait if you'd like, but you should always consider the fact of a different community always having a different relationship with queer concepts.

Studio Bones's official art of Soukoku is hilarious to me. There’s another one promoting some brand and they're at a fountain dating spot. At least these are not as bad as the official art for Mecha animes in the 2000s lololol.

Moving on, the argument for Queer Coding when it comes to Soukoku tends to rely on these arts. I don't recommend doing that because relying on side content that holds no purpose other than to rile up fans doesn't make a strong enough case. Subtext is the most important part to making a point, so if you can't even point in the direction of the main text, then…

Dazai and Chuuya is a bit bottom barrel of what can be considered Queer Coding. I like Soukoku as much as the next guy (maybe not in the same way) and think their relationship is incredibly fun, but one vaguely homoerotic scene in Dead Apple does not convince me anything of the idea they should be seen in a romantic context. Trust me, I've spent a long time back proofing my arguments as to why my long-term OTP should be understood as gay. Soukoku doesn't impress me in these lines of understanding.

I personally think the way some SKK fans approach their relationship from a purely romantic view and are entirely insistent on this one-note understanding of Dazai’s feelings for him ruins most conversation on the topic of Dazai, Chuuya, Age 15, and his inclusion in Stormbringer. They're very important to each other, but some need to step back to appreciate what they have in canon and then apply romance?

I have no idea why people talk as if Dazai joking around and saying “That's what makes me like you” really meant anything. Makes me doubt half the time if it's just people seeing the panel out of content and have never read the actual novel.

Fyodor and Nikolai shippers are like this too. They take the importance they have to one another (at least for Nikolai, idk what Fyodor thinks of him) and then inflate that into just romance. What they have isn't really Queer Coding, it's just fixation that is seen as romantic. They have their official art, but that doesn't mean much since it's anthology art.

Rimbaud and Verlaine hm… sometimes when an author depicts real people who were in a relationship, they avoid that detail by calling them “brotherly”. The relationship of the real authors shouldn't be pointed at as proof at all because the characters are not the people. I would not recommend romanticizing their relationship either since it was um, I don't think chaotic cuts it. The age gap was disastrous, Rimbaud moved in with him and his wife at some point (obviously making the marriage worse), one of them got slapped with a fish, Verlaine tried shooting Rimbaud, etc.

So me saying that there was no Queer Coding shouldn't mean you can't see them as queer, I just mean there's no proof of Asagiri having that intention. That is all. I think Verlaine and Rimbaud had something going on, but that's purely from my own amusement and appeal.

That's my take on that I guess? I don't see it either way. It takes a lot for me to believe there was an intention to write them a certain way. Even if you asked me, “Do you think Akechi and the protagonist from Persona 5 are meant to be gay?” I'd giggle and consider it from what the p5 royal content was like, but I'd tell you no, unfortunately.

[marquisguyun]

mdzs/cql ask meme: 1, 2, 6, 12, 25 :)))

1. which adaptations have you seen/watched? which one do you like best and why?

I’ve watched both the donghua and CQL (and read the book and some of the manhua). I’m not sure if I have a definitive answer to which visual adaptation is better? The donghua is gorgeous, especially all the demonic cultivation in the third season (plus it was my first mdzs adaptation, my first danmei of any kind actually). I do really enjoy CQL tho, and there are things I like and dislike about both adaptations. That answer is a total cop out but it’s also the truth 😂

2. top 5 favorite characters? what specifically do you like about each one?

Okay so I thought I had this, no problem, and then I counted again and realized I had six characters lmao... I’m not doing this in order bc that’s too many decisions to deal with

1. Wei Wuxian - What can I say, I love a tragic hero! I am intrigued by how smart he is (inventing demonic cultivation, lure flags, etc) but also how he makes mistakes and does some really fucked up stuff even tho he has good intentions. A great complex character!

2. Lan Wangji - I mean who doesn't like Hanguang-jun? He's a badass and a romantic, plus he's stubborn as shit. I really appreciate his relationships with the juniors. I also think his whole teenage angst about liking wwx is fantastic, and also him being super horny and dominant... I am a fan of novel dynamics for wangxian's sex life lol

3. Xue Yang & Xiao Xingchen - I am a slut for a good tragedy and for messed up characters! Plus I love identity porn. Yi City and XueXiao were basically tailored to my personal taste.

4. Lan Sizhui - He's just a good boy! And I like the added complexity of his identity.

5. Jiang Cheng - Honestly it took me a little while to latch onto him as hard, but he grew on me steadily. I originally mostly thought about him in relation to WWX, but damn he's been through a lot! Raising his nephew and running his sect on his own after he's lost everything? Really fucking sad and angry about it? That's good shit!

Also want to note that I like all of these characters in all adaptations, but their actors all did a fantastic job in cql and really added to my love for the characters, especially Wang Haoxuan as Xue Yang and Wang Zuocheng as Jiang Cheng!

6. unpopular opinions?

1. I don’t hate Jiang Cheng or Lan Qiren? those can be pretty unpopular opinions

2. I’m a white American and my reading of danmei is definitely colored by my different experiences/worldview... I try to be aware of that as much as I can be and to read meta by Chinese disaspora (EDIT: I wrote this like a year ago and idk where I was going with this, but I think I was trying to say something about how I try to make sure my opinions aren't culturally insensitive? Bc some of the takes you see definitely are)

12. do you like any other of mxtx's works? is mdzs your first of hers or did you watch/read the others first?

It’s less obvious on tumblr bc there’s less content I come across compared to twt but your girl is a Scum Villain main lmao (EDIT: That was written a year ago when I started answering this ask. One of the advantages to twt's whole mess is that there's more scum villain content on tumblr now!!)

That said, I have read all three MXTX novels, watched all three donghuas, watched CQL, and read at least part of all three manhuas (rip sv manhua)

my order of watching/reading (with some overlap) was something like: watched mdzs donghua s1-2 >>> read mdzs novel >>> watched cql >>> started scumbag system >>> started heaven official’s blessing donghua >>> read scum villain >>> read what little there is of the sv manhua >>> waited several months?? and then read tgcf >>> dabbled with mdzs and tgcf manhuas >>> watched mdzs donghua s3

25. queer headcanons? 

- I definitely see Wei Wuxian as bi, altho I can understand reading him as a gay man who isn’t actually attracted at all to the women he flirts with - On the other hand, 90% of the time I see Lan Wangji as gay. The other 10% is me going “but what if Wei Ying was a girl tho”

I don’t think I have a lot of definitive non canon queer headcanons for mdzs honestly? There are definitely ones I enjoy and ones I don’t really see, but a lot of times I’m just happy to be taken along for the ride of other people’s headcanons for a fic or meta. Here are a few I’ve enjoyed:

- Asexual Jiang Cheng - Bisexual Jiang Fengmian (in love with Wei Changze) - Trans headcanons/AUs for various characters

[pumpkinpaix]

Hi! Loving your meta on suibian :)) Just wondering what were your frustrations with cql, especially considered you've watched this in multiple mediums? (I've only watched cql)

Hi anon! thank you so much!

Oh boy, you’ve unlocked a boatload of hidden dialogue, are you ready?? :D (buckle up it’s oof. Extremely Long)

@hunxi-guilai please consider this my official pitch for why I think the novel is worth reading, if only so you can enjoy the audio drama more fully. ;)

a few things before I get into it:

I don’t want to make this a 100% negative post because I really do love CQL so much! So I’m going to make it two parts: the changes that frustrated me the most and the changes I loved the most re: CQL vs novel. (again, don’t really know anything about donghua or manhua sorry!!) Sound good? :D

this will contain spoilers for the entirety of CQL and the novel. just like. All of it.

talking about the value of changes in CQL is difficult because I personally don’t know what changes were made for creative reasons and what changes were made for censorship reasons. I don’t think it’s entirely fair to evaluate the narrative worth of certain changes when I don’t know what their limitations were. It’s not just a matter of “gay content was censored”; China also has certain censorship restrictions on the portrayal of the undead, among other things. I, unfortunately, am not familiar enough with the ins and outs of Chinese censorship to be able to tell anyone with certainty what was and wasn’t changed for what reason. So I guess just, take whatever my opinions are with a grain of salt! I will largely avoid addressing issues related to how explicitly romantic wangxian is, for obvious reasons.

OKAY. In order to impose some kind of control on how much time I spend on this, I’m going to limit myself to four explicated points in each category, best/worst. Please remember that I change my opinions constantly, so these are just like. the top contenders at this specific point in my life. Starting with the worst so we can end on a positive note!

Henceforth, the novel is MDZS, CQL is CQL.

CQL’s worst crimes, according to cyan:

1. Polarizing Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao on the moral spectrum

I’ve heard rumors that this was a censorship issue, but I have never been able to confirm or deny it, so. Again, grain of salt. 

The way that CQL reframed Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao’s character arcs drives me up the wall because I think it does a huge disservice to both of them and the overarching themes of the story. Jin Guangyao is shown to be responsible for pretty much all the tragedy post-Sunshot, which absolves Wei Wuxian of all possible wrongdoing and flattens Jin Guangyao into a much less interesting villain.

What I find so interesting about MDZS is how much it emphasizes the role of external forces and situations in determining a person’s fate: that being “good” or “righteous” at heart is simply not enough. You can do everything with all the best intentions and still do harm, still fail, still lose everything. Even “right” choices can have terrible consequences. Everyone starts out innocent. “In this world, everyone starts without grievances, but there is always someone who takes the first blow.”

It matters that Wei Wuxian is the one who loses control and kills Jin Zixuan, that his choices (no matter how impossible and terrible the situation) had consequences because the whole point is that even good people can be forced into corners where they do terrible things. Being good isn’t enough. You can do everything right, make every impossible choice, and fail. You can do the right thing and be punished for it. Maybe you did the right thing, but others suffer for your actions. Is that still the right thing? Is it your fault? Is it? By absolving Wei Wuxian of any conceivable blame, it really changes the narrative conclusion. In MDZS, even the best people can do incomprehensible harm when backed into corners, and the audience is asked to evaluate those actions with nuance. Is a criminal fully culpable for the harm they do when their external circumstances forced them into situations where they felt like they had no good choices left?

Personally, I feel like the novel asks you to forgive Wei Wuxian his wrongs, and, in paralleling him with Jin Guangyao, shows how easily they could have been one another. Both of them are extraordinarily talented sons of commoners; the difference lies in what opportunities they were given as they were growing up and how they choose to react to grievances. Wei Wuxian is adopted early on into the head family of a prominent sect and treated (more or less—not going to get into it) like a son. Jin Guangyao begs, borrows, steals, kills for every scrap of prestige and honor he gets and understands that his position in life is, at all points, extraordinarily unstable. Wei Wuxian doesn’t take his grievances to heart, but Jin Guangyao does.

To be clear, I don’t think the novel places a moral value on holding grudges, if that makes sense. I think MDZS only indicates that acts of vengeance always lead to more bloodshed—that the only escape is to lay down your arms, no matter how bitter the taste. Wei Wuxian was horribly wronged in many ways, and I don’t think I would fault him for wanting revenge or holding onto his anger—but I do think it’s clear that if he did, it would destroy him. It destroys Jin Guangyao, after all.

(It also destroys Xue Yang, and I think the parallel actually also extends to him. Yi City, to me, is a very interesting microcosm of a lot of broader themes in MDZS, and I have a lot of Thoughts on Xue Yang and equivalent justice, etc. etc. but. Thoughts for another time.)

Wei Wuxian is granted a happy ending not because he is Good, but because public opinion has changed, because there’s a new scapegoat, because he is protected by someone in power, because he lets go of the past, and because the children see him for who he is. I really do think that the reason MDZS and CQL have a hopeful ending as opposed to a bleak one hinges on the juniors. We are shown very clearly throughout the story how easily and quickly the tide of public opinion turns. The reason we don’t fear that it’s going to happen to Wei Wuxian again (or any other surviving character we love) is, I think, because the juniors, who don’t lose their childhoods to war, have the capacity to see past their parents’ prejudices and evaluate the actions of the people in front of them without having their opinions clouded by intense trauma and fear. They are forged out of love, not fire.

In CQL however, it emphasizes that Wei Wuxian is Fundamentally Good and did No Wrong Ever, so he deserves his happy ending, while Jin Guangyao is Fundamentally Bad and Responsible For Everything, so he got what was coming to him (even if we feel bad for him maybe). That’s not nearly as interesting or meaningful. 


(One specific change to Jin Guangyao’s timeline of evil that I find particularly vexing, not including the one I will discuss in point 2, is changing when Jin Rusong was conceived. In the novel, Qin Su is supposedly already pregnant by the time they get married, and that matters a WHOLE LOT when evaluating Jin Guangyao’s actions, I think.)

2. Wen POWs used as target obstacles at Baifeng Mountain

I know the first point was “here’s an overarching plot change that I think deeply impacts the narrative themes” and this second one is “I despise this one specific scene detail so much”, but HEAR ME OUT. It’s related to the first point! (tbh, most things are related to the first point)

Personally, I think this one detail character assassinates like. almost everyone in attendance, but most egregiously in no particular order: Jin Guangyao, Jin Zixuan (and by extension, Jiang Yanli), Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji and Lan Xichen.

First, I think it’s a cheap plot device that’s obviously meant to enhance Jin Guangyao’s ~villainy while emphasizing Wei Wuxian’s growing righteous anger, but it fails so spectacularly, god, I literally hate this detail so much lmao. I’ll go by character.

Jin Guangyao: I get that CQL is invested in him being a ~bad person~ or whatever, but this is such a transparently like, cartoon villain move that lacks subtlety and elegance. Jin Guangyao is very dedicated to being highly diplomatic, appeasing, and non-threatening in his bid for power. He manipulates behind the scenes, does his father’s dirty work, etc. but he always shows a gentle, smiling face. This display tips his hand pretty obviously, and even if it were at the behest of his father, there’s literally no reason for him to be so “ohohoho I’m so evil~” about it—if anything, this would only serve to drive his sympathizers away. It’s a stupid move for him politically, and really undercuts his supposed intelligence and cleverness, in my personal opinion.

Jin Zixuan: yes, he is arrogant and vain and likes to show off! But putting his ego above the safety of innocent people? Like, not necessarily OOC, but it sure makes him much less sympathetic in my eyes. I find it hard to believe that Jiang Yanli would find this laudable or acceptable, but she’s given a few shots where she smiles with some kind of pride and it’s like. No! Do not do my queen dirty like this. She wouldn’t!

Wei Wuxian: where do I start! WHERE DO I START. Wei Wuxian is shown to be “righteously angry” about this, but steps down mutinously when Jiang Cheng motions him back. He looks shocked and outraged at Jin Zixuan for showing off with no concern for the safety of the Wen POWs, only to like, two seconds later, do the exact same thing, but worse! And at the provocation of Jin Zixun, no less! *screams into hands* The tonal shift is bizarre! We’re in this really tense ~moral quandary~, but then he flirts with Lan Wangji for a second (tense music still kinda playing?? it’s awful. I hate it), and then does his trickshot. You know! Putting all these people he’s supposedly so concerned about at risk! To one-up Jin Zixuan! It’s nonsensical. It’s such a conflict of priorities. This is supposed to make him seem honorable and cool, I guess? But it mostly just makes him look like a performative hypocrite. :///

Lan Wangji: I cannot believe that Lan Wangji saw this and did not immediately walk out in protest.

Lan Xichen: this is just one part of a larger problem with Lan Xichen’s arc in CQL vs MDZS, where his character development was an unwitting casualty of both wangxian censorship and CQL’s quest to demonize Jin Guangyao. One of the prevailing criticisms I see of Lan Xichen’s character is that he is a “centrist”, that he “allows bad things to happen through his inaction and desire to avoid conflict”, and that he is “stupid and willfully blind to Jin Guangyao’s faults”, when I don’t think any of this is supported by evidence in the novel whatsoever. Jin Guangyao is a subtle villain! He is a talented manipulator and liar! Even Wei Wuxian says it in the novel!

(forgive my rough translations /o\)

Chapter 49, as Wei Wuxian (through Empathy with Nie Mingjue’s head) listens to Lan Xichen defend Meng Yao immediately following Wen Ruohan’s assassination:

魏无羡心中摇头：“泽芜君这个人还是……太纯善了。”可再一想，他是因为已知金光瑶的种种嫌疑才能如此防备，可在蓝曦臣面前的孟瑶，却是一个忍辱负重，身不由己，孤身犯险的卧底，二人视角不同，感受又如何能相提并论？

Wei Wuxian shook his head to himself: “This Zewu-jun is still…… too pure and kind.” But then he thought again—he could only be so guarded because he already knew of all of Jin Guangyao’s suspicious behavior, but the Meng Yao before Lan Xichen was someone who had had no choice but to suffer in silence for his mission, who placed himself in grave danger, alone, undercover. The two of them had different perspectives, so how could their feelings be compared?

Chapter 63, after Wei Wuxian wakes up in the Cloud Recesses, having been brought there by Lan Wangji:

他不是不��理解蓝曦臣。他从聂明玦的视角看金光瑶，将其奸诈狡猾与野心勃勃尽收眼底，然而，如果金光瑶多年来在蓝曦臣面前一直以伪装相示，没理由要他不去相信自己的结义兄弟，却去相信一个臭名昭著腥风血雨之人。

It wasn’t that he couldn’t understand Lan Xichen. He had seen Jin Guangyao from Nie Mingjue’s perspective, and so had seen all of his treacherous and cunning obsession with ambition. However, if Jin Guangyao had for all these years only shown Lan Xichen a disguise, there was no reason for [Lan Xichen] to believe a famously violent person [Wei Wuxian] over his own sworn brother.

Lan Xichen, throughout the story, is being actively lied to and manipulated by Jin Guangyao. His only “mistake” was being kind and trying to give Meng Yao, someone who came from a place of great disadvantage, the benefit of the doubt instead of immediately dismissing him as worthless due to his birth or his station in life. Lan Xichen sees Meng Yao as someone who was forced to make impossible choices in impossible situations—you know, the way that we, the audience, are led to perceive Wei Wuxian. The only difference is that the story that we’re given about Wei Wuxian is true, while the story that Lan Xichen is given about Meng Yao is… not. But how would have have known?

The instant he is presented with a shred of evidence to the contrary, he revokes Jin Guangyao’s access to the Cloud Recesses, pursues that evidence to the last, and is horrified to discover that his trust was misplaced.

Lan Xichen’s willingness to consider different points of view is integral to Wei Wuxian’s survival and eventual happiness. Without Lan Xichen’s kindness, there is no way that Wei Wuxian would have ever been able to clear his name. Everyone else was calling for his blood, but Lan Wangji took him home, and Lan Xichen not only allowed it, he listened to and helped them. To the characters of the book who are not granted omniscient knowledge of Wei Wuxian’s actions and circumstances, there is literally no difference between Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao. Lan Xichen is being incredibly fair when he asks in chapter 63:

蓝曦臣笑了，道：“忘机，你又是如何判定，一个人究竟可信不可信？”

他看着魏无羡，道：“你相信魏公子，可我，相信金光瑶。大哥的头在他手上，这件事我们都没有亲眼目睹，都是凭着我们自己对另一个人的了解，相信那个人的说辞。

“你认为自己了解魏无羡，所以信任他；而我也认为自己了解金光瑶，所以我也信任他。你相信自己的判断，那么难道我就不能相信自己的判断吗？”

Lan Xichen laughed and said, “Wangji, how can you determine exactly who should and should not be believed?”

He looked at Wei Wuxian and said, “You believe Wei-gongzi, but I believe Jin Guangyao. Neither of us saw with our own eyes whether Da-ge’s head was in his possession. We base our opinions on our own understandings of someone else, our belief in their testimony.

“You think you understand Wei Wuxian, and so you trust him; I also think I understand Jin Guangyao, so I trust him. You trust your own judgment, so can’t I trust my own judgment as well?”

But he hears them out, examines the proof, and acts immediately.

I really do feel like this aspect of Lan Xichen kind of… became collateral damage in CQL. Because Jin Guangyao is so much more publicly malicious, Lan Xichen’s alleged “lack of action” feels much less understandable or acceptable.

It is wild to me that in this scene, Lan Xichen reacts with discomfort to the proceedings, but has nothing to say to Jin Guangyao about it afterwards and also applauds Wei Wuxian’s archery. (I could talk about Nie Mingjue here as well, but I would say Nie Mingjue and Lan Xichen have very different perspectives on morality, so this moment isn’t necessarily OOC for NMJ, but I do think is very OOC for LXC.) This scene (among a few others that have Jin Guangyao being more openly “evil”) makes Lan Xichen look like a willfully blind bystander by the end of the story, but having him react with any action would have been inconvenient for the plot. Thus, he behaves exactly as he did in the book, but under very different circumstances. It reads inconsistently with the rest of his character (since a lot of the beats in the novel still happen in the show), and weakens the narrative surrounding his person.

None of these overt displays of cruelty or immorality happen in the book, so it makes perfect sense that he doesn’t do or suspect anything! Jin Guangyao is, as stated, perfectly disguised towards Lan Xichen. You can’t blame him for “failing to act” when someone was purposefully keeping him in the dark and, from his perspective, there was nothing to act upon.

This scene specifically is almost purely lighthearted in the novel! If you take out the Wen POWs, this just becomes a fun scene where Wei Wuxian shows off, flirts with Lan Wangji, gets into a pissing match with Jin Zixuan, and is overall kind of a brat! It’s great! I love this scene! The blindfolded shot is ridiculous and over-the-top and very cute!

I know this is a lot of extrapolation, but the whole scene is soured for me due to you know. *gestures upwards* Which is really a shame because it’s one of my favorite silly scenes in the book! Alas! @ CQL why! ;A;

3. Lan Xichen already being an adult and sect leader at the start of the show

This is rapidly becoming a, “Lan Xichen was Wronged and I Have the Receipts” essay (oh no), but you know what, that’s fine I guess! I never said I was impartial!

CQL makes Lan Xichen seem much older and more experienced than he is in the novel, though we’re not given his specific age. In the novel, he is not sect leader yet when Wei Wuxian and co. arrive at the Cloud Recesses for lectures. His father, Qingheng-jun, is in seclusion, and his uncle is the de facto leader of the sect. Lan Xichen does not become sect leader until his father dies at the burning of the Cloud Recesses. Moreover, my understanding of the text is that he is at most 19 years old when this happens. Wen Ruohan remarks that Lan Xichen is still a junior at the beginning of the Sunshot Campaign in chapter 61. (If someone has a different interpretation of the term 小��, please correct me.) In any case! Lan Xichen is young.

Lan Xichen ascends to power under horrific circumstances: he is not an adult, his father has just been murdered, his uncle seriously injured, his brother kidnapped, and his home burnt to the ground. He is on the run, alone! Carrying the sacred texts of his family and trying to stay alive so his sect is not completely wiped out on the eve of war! He is terrified, inexperienced, and unprepared!

You know, just like Jiang Cheng, a few months later!

I see a lot of people lambasting Lan Xichen for not stepping up to protect the Wen remnants post-Sunshot, but I’m always flummoxed by the accusations because I don’t see criticisms of Jiang Cheng with remotely the same vitriol, even though their political positions are nearly identical:

they are both extraordinarily young sect leaders who came to power before they expected to through incredible violence done to their families

because of this, they are in very weak political positions: they have very little experience to offer as evidence of their competence and right to respect. if they are considered adults, they have only very recently come of age.

Jin Guangshan, who is rapidly and greedily taking the place of the Wen clan in the vacuum of power, is shown to be more than willing to mow people down to get what he wants—and he has the power to do so.

both Yunmeng Jiang and Gusu Lan were crippled by the Wen clan prior to Sunshot. And they just fought a war that lasted two and a half years. they are hugely weakened and in desperate need of time to rebuild, mourn, etc. both Jiang Cheng and Lan Xichen are responsible for the well-being of all of these people who are now relying upon them.

I think it’s very obvious that Jiang Cheng is in an impossible situation because he wears his fears and insecurities on his face and people in power (cough Jin Guangshan) prey upon that, while we, as the audience, have a front row seat for that whole tragedy. We understand his choices, even if they hurt us.

Why shouldn’t Lan Xichen be afforded the same consideration?

I really do think that because he’s presented as someone who’s much more composed and confident in his own abilities than Jiang Cheng is, we tend to forget exactly what pressures he was facing at the same time. We just assume, oh yes, of course Lan Xichen has the power to do something! He’s Lan Xichen! The First Jade! Isn’t he supposed to be Perfectly Good? Why isn’t he doing The Right Thing?

I think this is exacerbated by CQL’s decision to make him an established sect leader at the start of the show with several years of experience under his belt. We don’t know his age, but he is assumed to be an Adult. This gives him more power and stability, and so it seems more unacceptable that he does not make moves to protect the Wen remnants, even if in essence, he and Jiang Cheng’s political positions are still quite similar. He doesn’t really have any more power to save the Wen remnants without placing his whole clan in danger of being wiped out again, but CQL implies that he does, even if it isn’t the intention of the change.

It does make me really sad that this change also drives a further thematic divide between Lan Xichen and the rest of his generation. Almost everyone in that generation came of age through a war, which I think informs the way their tragedies play out, and how those tragedies exist in contrast to the juniors’ behavior and futures. Making Lan Xichen an experienced adult aligns him with the generation prior to him, which, as we’re shown consistently, is the generation whose adherence to absolutism and fear ruined the lives of their children. But Lan Xichen is just as much a victim of this as his peers.

(the exception being maybe Nie Mingjue, but it’s complicated. I think Nie Mingjue occupies a very interesting position in the narrative, but like. That’s. For another time! this is. already so far out of hand. oh my god this is point three out of eight oh nO)

(yet another aside because I can’t help myself: can you believe we were robbed of paralleling scenes of Jiang Cheng and Lan Xichen’s coronations? the visual drama of that. the poetic cinema. it’s not in the book, but can you IMAGINE. thank u @paledreamsblackmoths​ for putting this image into my head so that I can suffer forever knowing that I’ll never get it.)

I said I wasn’t going to talk at length about any changes surrounding Wangxian’s explicit romance for obvious reasons, but I will at least lament here that because a large percentage of Lan Xichen’s actions and character beats are directly in relation to Lan Wangji’s love for Wei Wuxian, he loses a lot of both minor and major moments to the censors as well. Many of the instances when he encourages Lan Wangji to talk to Wei Wuxian, when he indulges in their relationship etc. are understandably gone. But the most significant moment that was cut for censorship reasons I think is when he loses his temper with Wei Wuxian at the Guanyin temple and lays into him with all the fury and terror he felt for his brother’s broken heart for the last thirteen years.

Lan Xichen is only shown to express true anger twice in the whole story, both times at the Guanyin temple: first against Wei Wuxian for what he perceives as gross disregard for his little brother’s convictions, and second against Jin Guangyao for his massive betrayal of trust. And you know, murdering his best friend. Among other things.

I’m genuinely so sad that we don’t get to see Lan Xichen tear Wei Wuxian to shreds for what he did to Lan Wangji because I think one of the most important aspects to Lan Xichen’s character is how much he loves, cares for and fears for his little brother. The reveal about Lan Wangji’s punishment in episode 43 is a sad and sober conversation, but it’s not nearly as impactful, especially because Wei Wuxian asks about it of his own volition. I understand that this isn’t CQL’s fault! But. I can still mourn it right? ahahaha. :’)

I’ll stop before I descend further into nothing but Lan Xichen meta because that’s. Dangerous. (I have a lot of Feelings about how there are three characters who are held up as paragons of virtue in MDZS, how they all suffered in spite of their goodness, and how that all ties directly into the whole, “it is not enough to be good, but kindness is never wrong” theme. Anyways, they’re Xiao Xingchen, Jiang Yanli, and Lan Xichen, but NOT NOW. NOT TODAY.)

So yes, I’m a Lan Xichen apologist on main, and yes, I understand my feelings are incredibly personally motivated and influenced by my subjective emotions, but no I do not take concrit on this point, thank you very much.

4. all of the Wen remnants turning themselves in alongside Wen Qing and Wen Ning

Okay, back to plot changes. This change I would be willing to bet money was at least partially due to censorship, but it hurts me so deeply hahaha. It makes literally no sense for any of the characters and it completely janks the timeline of events post Qiongqi Dao 2.0 through Wei Wuxian’s death.

It’s not ALL bad—this change makes it easier for the Peak Wangxian moment at the Bloodbath at Nightless City (You know. Hands. Cliff. etc.) to happen, which I did very much enjoy. It’s pretty on-brand for CQL to sacrifice plot for character beats that they want to emphasize, so like. I get it! This moment is a huge gift! I Understand This. CQL collapses the Bloodbath at Nightless City and the First Siege of the Mass Graves into one event for I think a few reasons. One, Wangxian moment without being explicitly Wangxian, which is excellent. Two, it circumvents the Blood Corpse scene, which I do not think would have made it past censorship.

I’ll get to the Blood Corpse scene in a minute, but despite being able to understand why so much might have been sacrificed for the impact of the cliff scene, I still wish it had been done differently (and I feel like it could have been!), if only for my peace of mind because the plot holes it creates are pretty gaping.

The entire point of Wen Qing and Wen Ning turning themselves in is specifically to save their family members and Wei Wuxian from coming to further harm. That’s explicit, even in the show. Jin Guangshan demands that the Wen brother and sister stand for their crimes and claims that the blood debt will be paid. The Wen remnants understand that Wei Wuxian has given up so much for their sakes, that he has lost his family, his home, his respectability, his health, all in the name of sheltering them. To throw all of that away would be the greatest disrespect to his sacrifices. Wen Qing and Wen Ning decide that if their lives can pay for the safety of their loved ones and ensure that Wei Wuxian’s sacrifices matter, they are willing to go together and give themselves up.

So. Why did they. All go?? For… moral support???? D: Wen Qing says that Wei Wuxian will wake up in three days and that she’s given Fourth Uncle and the others instructions for his care–but then Fourth Uncle and the others all go with them!! To die!! There’s also very clearly a shot of Granny Wen taking A’Yuan with them, which like. Obviously didn’t really happen.

Wen Qing, who loves her family more than anything in the world, agrees that they should all go to Lanling and sacrifice themselves to…. protect Wei Wuxian? Wen Qing, pragmatic queen of my heart, agrees to this absurdly bad exchange?? Leaves Wei Wuxian to wake up, alone, with the knowledge that he had not only killed his brother-in-law but also effectively gotten everyone he had left killed also??

I can’t imagine Wen Qing doing that to Wei Wuxian. Save his life? For what? This takes away everything he has left to live for. You think Wen Qing doesn’t intimately understand how cruel that would be?

(Yes, I’m complaining about all of this, but I’m still about to cry because I rewatched the scene to make sure I didn’t say anything untrue, and  g o d  it manages to hit hard despite all of that, so who’s the real clown here!!)

Anyways. So that’s all just like. Frustratingly incoherent. It’s one of several wrongs I think CQL committed against Wen Qing’s character, but my feelings about Wen Qing in CQL are pretty complicated (I love her so much, and I love that we got more Wen Qing content, but that content sure is a mixed bag of stuff I really enjoyed and stuff I desperately wish didn’t exist) and I decided I wasn’t going to get into it in this post. (is anyone even still reading god)

This change also muddles Lan Wangji’s choices and punishment in ways that I think diminishes the severity of the situation to the detriment of both his characterization and his family’s characterization. The punishment scene is extremely moving and you should read this post about the language used in it but. sldfjsljslkf.

okay well, several things. In the context of CQL, which really pushes the “righteousness” angle of Wei Wuxian (see point 1), I think this scene makes a lot of sense in isolation: both Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian are painted as martyrs for doing the right thing. “Who’s right and who’s wrong?” The audience is asked to see the punishment as “unjust”. That’s perfectly fine and coherent in the context of CQL, but I don’t think it’s nearly as interesting as what happens in MDZS.

Because CQL collapses both the First Siege and the Bloodbath into one event, Lan Wangji’s crimes are sort of unclearly defined. In episode 43, when Lan Xichen is explaining the situation, we see a flashback to when Su She says something along the lines of, “We could set aside the fact that you defended Wei Ying at Nightless City, but now you won’t even let us search his den?” (of course, this gives us the really excellent “you are not qualified to talk to me” line which. delicious. extremely vindicating and satisfying. petty king lan wangji.) Lan Xichen goes on to say something like, “Wangji alone caused several disturbances at the Mass Graves. Uncle was greatly angered, and [decreed his punishment]”. (Sorry, I’m too lazy to type out the full lines with translations, just. trust me on this one.)

Lan Wangji’s actions are shown to be motivated by a righteous love. Wei Wuxian is portrayed as someone innocent who stood up for the right thing against popular opinion and was scapegoated and destroyed for it, having done no wrong. (See, point 1 again.)

In MDZS, Lan Wangji’s crimes are very specific. It isn’t just that he caused some “disturbances” (this is just Lan XIchen’s vague phrasing in CQL—we don’t really know what he did). He steals Wei Wuxian away from the Bloodbath at Nightless City, after Wei Wuxian killed thousands of people, and hides him away in a cave, feeding him spiritual energy to save his life. When Lan Wangji’s family comes to find him, demand that he hand over Wei Wuxian (who is, remember, a mass murderer at this point! we can argue about how culpable he is for those actions all day—that’s the whole point, but the people are still dead), Lan Wangji not only refuses, but raises his hands against his family. He seriously injures thirty-three Lan elders to protect Wei Wuxian.

I don’t know how to emphasize how serious that crime is? Culturally, this is like. Unthinkable. To raise your hand against members of your own family, your elders who loved and raised you, in defense of an outsider, a man who, by all accounts, is horrifically evil and just murdered thousands of people, including other members of your own family, is like. That’s a serious betrayal. Oh my god. Lan Wangji, what have you done?

Lan Xichen explains in chapter 99:

我去看他的时候对他说，魏公子已铸成大错，你何苦错上加错了。他却说……他无法断言你所作所为对错如何，但无论对错，他愿意与你一起承担所有后果。

When I went to see him, I said, “Wei-gongzi’s great wrongs are already set in stone, why take the pains to add wrongs upon wrongs?” But he said…… he had no way to ascertain the rights and wrongs of your actions, but regardless of right or wrong, he was willing to bear all the consequences with you.

I think this is very different than what’s going on in CQL, though the differences appear subtle on the surface. In CQL, Lan Wangji demands of his uncle, “Dare I ask Uncle, who is righteous and who is wicked, who is wrong and who is right?” but the very act of asking in this way implies that Lan Wangji has an opinion on the matter (though perhaps not a simple one). 

Lan Wangji in MDZS specifically says that he doesn’t know how to evaluate the morality of Wei Wuxian’s actions, but that regardless, he is willing to bear the consequences of his choices and his actions. He understands that his actions while sheltering Wei Wuxian are not clearly morally defensible. He did it anyways because he loved Wei Wuxian, because he thought that Wei Wuxian was worth saving, that there was still something good in him, despite the things he had done under mitigating circumstances. Lan Wangji did not save Wei Wuxian because he thought it was the right thing to do. He saved him because he loved him.

He is given thirty-three lashes with the discipline whip, one for each elder he maimed, and this leaves him bedridden for three years. Is this punishment horrifyingly severe? Yes! But is it unjustly given? I think that’s a much harder question to answer in the context of the story.

Personally, I think that question underscores the broader questions of morality contained within MDZS. I think it’s a much more interesting take on Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji as individuals. This asks, what can be pardoned? The righteous martyr angle is uncomplicated because moral certainty is easy. I think the situation in MDZS is far more uncomfortable if you examine its implications. And personally, I think that’s more meaningful!

(Not even going to touch on the whole, 300 strokes with a giant rod, but he has whip scars? And they were also sentenced to 300 strokes as kids for drinking alcohol…? CQL is not. consistent. on that front. ahaha.)

God, every point so far in this meta is just like “here’s one change that has cascading effects upon the rest of the show” dear god, okay, I’m getting to the Blood Corpse scene.

So in MDZS, the Wen remnants (besides Wen Ning and Wen Qing) do not go to Lanling. After the Bloodbath at Nightless City, Lan Wangji returns Wei Wuxian to the Mass Graves. Wei Wuxian lives with the Wen remnants for another three months before the First Siege, where he dies and the rest of the Wens are killed (except A’Yuan).

(Sidenote that I won’t get into: I love the dead spaces of time that MDZS creates. There’s very clear gaps in the narrative that we just never get the details on, most notably: Wei Wuxian’s three months in the Mass Graves post core transfer, and Wei Wuxian’s three months in the Mass Graves post Jiang Yanli’s death. They’re both extremely terrible times, but the audence is asked to imagine it instead of ever learning what really happened, what it was like. There’s something really cool about that narratively, I think.)

The Wen remnants are not cremated along with the rest of the dead. Their bodies are thrown into the blood pool.

At the Second Siege, when Wei Wuxian draws a Yin Summoning Flag on his clothes to turn himself into bait for the corpses in order to allow everyone else to escape to safety while he and Lan Wangji fight them off, there’s a moment when it gets really, truly dangerous—even with the help of the juniors and a few of the adults, they probably would have been killed. But then a wave of blood-soaked corpses come crawling out of the blood pool of their own accord and tear their attackers apart.

At the end of it, the blood corpses, the Wen remnants, gather before Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian and Wen Ning. Wei Wuxian thanks them, they exchange bows, and the blood corpses collapse into dust. Wen Ning scrambles to gather their ashes, but runs out of space in his clothing. Several juniors, seeing this, offer up their bags to him and try to help.

It’s just. This scene is so important to me. Obviously, it couldn’t be included in CQL because of the whole undead thing, but it’s such a shame because I maintain that the Blood Corpse scene is one of the most powerful scenes in the whole goddamn book. It ties together so many things that I care about! It’s the moment when the narrative says, “kindness is not a waste”. Wei Wuxian failed to save them, but that doesn’t mean that his actions were done in vain. What he did matters. The year of life he bought them matters. The time they spent together matters.

This is also the moment when the juniors finally see Wen Ning for who he is—not the terrifying Ghost General, but a gentle man who has just lost his family for a second time. This is the moment when they reach out with kindness to the monster that their parents told them about at night. It matters that the juniors are able to do that! That they see this man suffering and are moved to compassion instead of righteous satisfaction.

(Except Jin Ling, for very understandable reasons, but Jin Ling’s moment comes later.)

It’s also the moment that we’re starkly reminded that many of the adults in attendance were present at the First Siege and directly responsible for the murders of the Wen remnants, including Ouyang Zizhen’s father. We’re reminded that he’s not just a comically annoying man with bad takes—he also participated in the murder of innocent people and then disrespected their corpses. But what retribution should be taken against him and the others? What retribution could be taken that wouldn’t lead to more tragedy?

There’s someone in the crowd in this scene named Fang Mengchen who refuses to be swayed by Wei Wuxian’s actions. “He killed my parents,” he says. “What about them? How can I let that go?”

“What more do you want from me?” Wei Wuxian asks. “I have already died once. You do not have to forgive me, but what more should I do?”

That is the ultimate question, isn’t it? What is the only way out of tragedy? You don’t have to forgive, but you cannot continue to take your retribution. It is not fair, but it’s all you have.

okay. so. those were my four Big Points of Contention with CQL, as I am currently experiencing them.

Honorable mentions go to: Wen Qing’s arc (both excellent and awful in different ways), making 13/16 years of Inquiry canon (I think this is untrue to Lan Wangji’s character, though I can understand why it was done), Mianmian’s departure from the Lanling Jin sect being shortened and having the sexism cut out (there’s something really visceral about the accusations against Mianmian being explicitly about her womanhood that I desperately wish had been retained in the show), cutting the scene where Jin Ling cries in mourning for Jin Guangyao and is scolded for it by Sect Leader Yao (my heart for that scene because it also matters so much)

but now!! onto the fun part, where I talk effusively about how much I love CQL!! this will probably be shorter (*prays*) because a lot of my frustrations with CQL are related to spiraling thematic consequences while the things I love are like. Simpler to pinpoint? If that makes sense? we’ll see.

CQL’s greatest virtues, also according to cyan:

1. this:

[ID: Wei Wuxian, trembling in fear, screaming “shijie!” as Jiang Cheng threatens him with Fairy in episode 34 of The Untamed drama. /end ID]

I understand that this is like, a very minor, specific detail change, but oh my GOD, it is like. Unparalleled. Every time I think about this change, I get so emotional and disappointed that it’s not in the novel, because I think it strengthens this scene tenfold. In the novel, Wei Wuxian calls out for Lan Zhan, which like, I get it. The story at this point is focused on the development of his romantic feelings for Lan Wangji, so the point of the scene is that the first person he thinks of in a moment of extreme fear is Lan Zhan, which surprises him. That’s fine. Like, it’s fine! But I think it doesn’t have nearly the same weight as Wei Wuxian calling for his sister to save him from his brother. 

Having Wei Wuxian call out for his sister drives home the loss that the two of them have suffered, and highlights the relationship they all once had. Jiang Yanli is much more relevant to shuangjie’s narrative than Lan Wangji ever was, and this highlights exactly how deeply the fracturing of their familial relationship cuts. Wangxian gets so much time and focus throughout the rest of the novel. I love that this moment in the show is just about the Yunmeng siblings because that relationship is no less important, you know?

Calling out for Jiang Yanli in the show draws a much cleaner line through the dialogue. “You dare bring her up before me?” to “Don’t you remember what you said to Jin Ling?” It unifies the scene and twists the knife. It also gives us more insight into how fiercely Wei Wuxian was once beloved and protected by his siblings. Jiang Cheng promised to chase all the dogs away from Wei Wuxian when they were children. It’s clear that Jiang Yanli did as well.

Once upon a time, Wei Wuxian’s siblings defended him from his fears, and now one of them is dead and the other is using that fear to hurt him where he’s weakest. The reversal is so painfully juxtaposed, and it’s done with just that one flashback of Wei Wuxian as a child leaping into Jiang Yanli’s arms and calling out her name. Extremely good, economical storytelling. The conversation between shuangjie is much more focused on their own stories independent from Lan Wangji, which I very much appreciate. Wangxian, you’re wonderful, but this ain’t about you, and I don’t think it should be.

2. Extended Jiang Yanli content (and by extension, Jin Zixuan and Mianmian content)

Speaking of absolute goddess Jiang Yanli, I really loved what CQL did with her (unlike my more mixed feelings about Wen Qing). Having her in so many more scenes makes her importance to Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian a lot clearer, and we get to experience her as a person rather than an ideal.

On a purely aesthetic level, Jiang Yanli’s styling and character design is so stellar in CQL. The more prevalent design for her is kind of childish in the styling, which I don’t love (I think it’s the donghua influence?). And even I, someone who’s audio drama on main 24/7, personally prefer her CQL voice actor. There’s only a few characters in CQL that I look at and go “ah yes, that’s [character] 100%” and Jiang Yanli is one of them. I was blessed. I would lay down my life for her.

I’m really glad that CQL showed her illness more explicitly and gave her a sword, even if she never uses it! Her weak constitution is only mentioned once in the novel in chapter 69 in like two lines that I blew past initially because I was reading at breakneck speed and was only reminded of when my therapist who I conned into reading mdzs after 8 months of never shutting up oof brought it to my attention like two weeks ago. /o\

We never read about Jiang Yanli carrying a sword in the novel, though we are told that her cultivation is “mediocre”, so we know that she at least does cultivate, even if not very well. Highlighting her poor health in CQL makes her situation more clear, I think, and explains a little more about the way she’s perceived throughout the cultivation world as someone “not worthy of Jin Zixuan”. The novel tells us that Jiang Yanli is not an extraordinary beauty, not very good at cultivation, sort of bland in her expressions, and, very briefly, that she’s in poor health. I really love that description of Jiang Yanli, because it emphasizes that her worth has nothing at all to do with her talents, her health, her cultivation, her physical strength, or her beauty. She is the best person in the whole world, her brothers adore her, and the audience loves and respects her for reasons wholly unrelated to those value judgments. We love her because she is kind, because she is loyal, because she loves so deeply. Tbh, her only imperfection is falling for someone so tragically undeserving of her. (JK, I love you Jin Zixuan, and you do deserve her because you are an excellent boy who grows and changes and learns!! I can’t even be mean to characters as a joke god.)

Anyways, I just think the detail about her health is compelling and informs her character’s position in the world in a very specific way. I’m happy that CQL brought it to the forefront when it was kind of an easily-missed throwaway in the novel. It does mean something to me that Jiang Yanli, despite her poor physical health, is never once seen or treated as a burden by her brothers.

Something partially related that really hit hard was this:

[ID: two gifs. Jiang Yanli peeling lotus pods, looking up uncomfortably as her mother loses her temper about the Wen indoctrination at the table from episode 11 of The Untamed drama. /end ID]

D8 AAAAHHH this was VISCERAL. The novel is quite sparse in a lot of its descriptions and lets the audience fill in the missing details, so Jiang Yanli’s expression and reactions are not described when, after Jiang Cheng quickly volunteers to go to Qishan, Madam Yu accuses her of continuing to “happily peel lotus seeds” in such a dire situation.

“Of course you’ll go,” she snaps to Jiang Cheng. “Or else do you think we should let your sister go?”

This scene triggered me so bad lmfao, so I guess it’s kind of weird that I love it so much, but I felt Seen. Something about the way her nail slips in the second gif as she breaks open the pod is like. Oh, that’s a sense memory! Of me, as a child, witnessing uncomfortable conflict between people I cared about. I know this is an extremely personal bias, but hey, so is this whole meta. Because Jiang Yanli is often silent and quiet, it’s more her behavior and expressions that convey her character. It’s why the moment she lets loose on Jin Zixun is so powerful. We don’t get to see a lot of it in the novel, but because CQL is a visual medium, her character is a lot easier to pin down as a human as opposed to an abstract concept.

Anyways, in this moment, which I also think is a tangential reference to her weak constitution (it doesn’t feel like, “your sister can’t go because she’s a girl”; it feels like, “your sister can’t go because she couldn’t handle it”), we get to see Jiang Yanli’s own reaction to her perceived inadequacy. We see it in other places too—like how upset she is when Jin Zixuan dismisses her in several scenes, but this is the one that hits me the hardest because it’s about how her weakness is going to put her little brother in grave danger.

Last Yunmeng siblings with focus on Jiang Yanli scene that isn’t in the novel that I’m just absolutely wrecked over: the dream sequence in episode 28, when Jiang Yanli dreams about Wei Wuxian sailing away from her, but no matter how she shouts, or how she begs Jiang Cheng to help her, she can’t bring him back home.

I’m not going to gif it because I literally just like, fast-forwarded through it and started sobbing uncontrollably in front of my laptop, dear god.

I don’t know where the CQL writers found the backdoor directly into my brain’s nightmare center, but?? they sure did! IDK, I can see how this might be kind of heavy-handed, but it just. The sensation of being in a dream where something is going terribly wrong, but you’re the only one who seems to see it happening? But there’s nothing you can do? I feel like it’s a very fitting nightmare to give Jiang Yanli, who is acutely aware and constantly reminded of how little power she has in the world: not good enough for the boy she likes, not healthy enough to cultivate well, not strong enough to keep her family together.

The whole, elder siblings trying and failing to protect their younger siblings pattern is A Lot in the story, but there’s something particularly painful about seeing it happen to Jiang Yanli because of that awareness. All the other elder siblings are exceptionally talented or powerful in obvious ways. All Jiang Yanli has is the force of her will and the force of her love, and she knows it isn’t enough.

I care a lot about the Yunmeng siblings, okay! And I think CQL did right by them!

I’m only going to spend two seconds talking about Jin Zixuan and Mianmian, but I DO want to mention them.

Anyways, because we get more Jiang Yanli content, we ALSO get more soft xuanli, which is Very Good. Literally my kingdom for disaster het Jin Zixuan treating my girl right!! CQL said het rights, and I’m not even mad about it! I’m really happy that we get to see a little more of how their relationship plays out, and how hard Jin Zixuan works to change his behavior and apologize to her for his mistakes. The novel is from Wei Wuxian’s POV, so we miss the details, alas. Jin Zixuan covered in mud, planting lotuses? Blessed.

I think part of making Mianmian a larger speaking role is for convenience’s sake, but oh boy do I love that choice. Especially the Jin Zixuan & Mianmian relationship. Like, they’re so clearly platonic, and Mianmian is never once portrayed as a threat to Jiang Yanli. They just care about and respect each other a lot? Jin Zixuan’s distress when she defects from the Jin sect gets me in the heart, because it’s just like. God. I think there’s a lot of interesting potential there for her own thoughts re: Wei Wuxian. After all, she leaves her sect in defense of him, but he later kills a friend that she respects and loves. The moments shared between her and Jin Zixuan are minor, but they hint at a deeper relationship that I’m really glad was in the show.

3. To curb the strong, defend the weak: lantern scene (gusu) + rain scene (qiongqi dao 1.0)

I think I basically already explained why I love this so much in this post (just consider that post and this point to be the same haha), but just. Okay. A short addendum.

As much as I love novel wangxian, I really think that including this scene early on emphasizes why Lan Wangji loves Wei Wuxian so deeply. Of course he thinks Wei Wuxian is attractive, but this is the moment when he realizes, oh, this is who I love. Having that moment to reflect upon throughout Wei Wuxian’s descent is so excellent. I have enumerated all of my issues with the “perfectly righteous Wei Wuxian” arc that CQL crafted, but having this narrative throughline in conjunction with the novel arc would be like. My favored supercanon ahaha. (It would need some tweaking, but I think it would work.) It shows us exactly who it is that Lan Wangji sees and is trying to save, who he thinks is still there, underneath all the carnage and despair and violence and grief. This is the Wei Wuxian Lan Wangji loves and is unwilling to let go. This is the Wei Wuxian that Lan Wangji would kill for, that Lan Wangji would stand beside, that Lan Wangji would live for.

4. Meeting Songxiao

As much as I love the unnameable ache of Wei Wuxian never meeting Xiao Xingchen and learning only about his story through secondhand sources in the novel (and the really cool parallel to that where Xiao Xingchen tells A’Qing the story of Baoshan-sanren’s ill-fated disciples: both Xiao Xingchen and Wei Wuxian learn of each other only through the eyes of others, and that is Very Neat), I think the reversal that this meeting in episode 10 sets up wins out just slightly.

I said once in the tags on one of my posts that “songxiao is the tragic parallel of wangxian” and like. Yeah. Basically! If we take songxiao as romantic, the arc of their relationship happens inversely to wangxian, and that parallel is so much clearer and stronger when we have wangxian meeting songxiao in their youth.

The scene of their meeting really does have that Mood™ of uncertain youth seeing happy and secure adults living out the dreams that they’re afraid to name. Wei Wuxian’s eager little, “oh! just like me and Lan Zhan!! Right, Lan Zhan??” when songxiao talk about cultivating together through shared ideals and not blood is. Well, it’s Something.

When they meet again at Yi City, there’s a greater heaviness to it. So this is what happened to the people you once dreamed of becoming! Wangxian have already come to a point where they have an unspoken understanding of their relationship, but Songxiao have lost everything they once had. When Song Lan looks at wangxian, it’s like looking at a mirror of his past, and everyone in attendance knows it.

To me, that unspoken parallel is really emotionally and thematically valuable. All that good, and here is the tragedy that came of it.

okay, look! I managed to keep it shorter!! here are my honorable mentions: that scene where Jin Guangyao tries to hold Jin Ling and Jin Guangshan refuses to let him (it’s hating Jin Guangshan hours all day every day in this household), the grass butterfly leitmotif for Sizhui (im literally crying right now about it shut up), the Jiang Cheng/Wen Qing sideplot (look I know it’s wild that I actually liked that given that I headcanon JC as aspec, but I actually really like how it played out, specifically because Wen Qing and Wei Wuxian are NOT romantic—it sets up an unexpected and interesting comparison)

um. Anyways. I uh. really care about this story. And have a lot of thoughts, which I’m sure will continue to evolve. Maybe in 8 months I’ll return to this and go well, literally none of this applies anymore, but who knows! It’s how I feel right now. I cried literally three times while writing this because MDZS/CQL reached into my chest and yanked my heart right out of my body, but I had fun! *finger guns*

and like, I know I had a LOT to say about what frustrated me about CQL, but I really really hope it’s clear that I adore the show despite all of that. I talk a lot because I care a lot, and my brain only has one setting.

anon, this was like 1000% more than you bargained for, I’m SURE, (and I’m still exercising some restraint, if you can. believe that.) but I hope that you or someone out there got something out of it! if you made it all the way to the end of this meta, wow!! consider me surprised and grateful!!

time to crawl back into my hovel so I can write Lan Xichen fic and cry

(ko-fi? ;A;)

[shijiujun]

hey so uh, it's 110% Not Your Job, but can i ask for like a crash course on these chinese bl series that are everywhere around me but i don't know them. like i'm familiar with the untamed or however many names it has but i'm seeing two or three more???? help please if you can thank you

hello!! oh no worries, i happened to be looking for a distraction too so this was timely hahaha although it’s a pretty broad question since there are so many new live adaptations coming out (and some which have already come out which are featured as bromances), but let me see if I can like round this up for you a little. 

*i may be giving you a bit more than you need or like irrelevant stuff, but i guess i’m bound to hit something hahaha

Okay so the chinese BL series you’re talking about is The Untamed, and since you said you’re familiar I won’t get into it in detail, BUT just for like flow’s sake:

The Untamed (Chen Qing Ling) is based on the danmei (BL) novel written by MXTX, called Mo Dao Zu Shi (and yes however many like English translations to this title there is), or MDZS for short. You watched the live-action, and there’s like a lot of other versions of it e.g. the anime, the chibi anime, audio dramas etc. etc. the list goes on. In case you still haven’t seen any of those, just glance through this masterpost made by @the-social-recluse​ - In any case, right now everything is sort of already out EXCEPT:

MDZSQ - chibi donghua, cutest shit you’ll ever see

More MDZS merch 

Some teasers from MDZS mobile game which has been one year and developing

Now moving on to other BL series floating around so frequently - MDZS is the second book that MXTX wrote. So there’s SVSSS (The Scum Villain’s Self-Saving-System), which is also called lovingly by others in the fandom by Scumbag System/Villain in short, this is MXTX’s first danmei novel. Right now if you’ve seen this on Tumblr, it’s the anime (donghua) version - 10 episodes only for Season 1, available on WeTV with subs, finished airing like a few weeks ago. Translations of the novel are definitely out in full somewhere.

An absolute mess, but an organized one

Tried to do a manhua but failed

Everyone thought the donghua wouldn’t air on time either (it has a history of dropping development halfway) but it did

Would probably be the most entertaining if ever dealt with a live-action

And then there’s arguably, the most beloved child out of all three novels (at least right this moment) - TGCF (Tian Guan Ci Fu, or Heaven Official’s Blessing). This is the third and so far last (???) danmei novel MXTX has written, main pairing invented love. Strawhat-wearing scrap collector smiley angel with devoted kid-turned-adult-turned-ghost-king who follows smiley angel for like many years because he loves him. Anyway, if you’re seeing this, once again on Tumblr a lot, it’s the donghua version you’re seeing. Still airing, I think we’re midway through the whole season, the yelling starts Saturday (Asia time zone) and then extends into Sunday, sometimes Monday.

There’s like a god-tier Eng translation in full for TGCF by Suika

There is a manhua for this as well, only like 45 chapters in, but the time Jan/Feb 2021 rolls around, the donghua would have overtaken the manhua progress on the storyline HAHAHA

Apparently the director/production team who did CQL/The Untamed managed to get the rights to filming its live-action, but heh nothing much about that just yet aside from casting rumours and fans worrying that the casting will be done wrongly and also that they won’t be able to do justice to the story.

Alright now that we’ve more or less cleared MXTX and what everyone is hyping over (for good reason), let’s move on to the other CHINESE BL stuff you could be seeing (although I feel like you might not actually be asking about this), and these will all be live-actions (I’m also only clearing SOME of this year’s stuff, so none from before 2020, don’t ask me why I didn’t leave Guardian or SCI up here):

✨✨✨ Already aired, done and dusted or maybe ongoing, just ones I see on my dash and notifs so I definitely am biased ✨✨✨

The Sleuth of Ming Dynasty (Cheng Hua’s Fourteenth Year) - Many episodes, much bromance, base novel is gay af, but live action is cute af. Read more here and full translation is not yet done I think

My Roommate is a Detective - THIS IS A SPECIAL MENTION. NOT BL. Doesn’t even have like a book to go along with it, it’s just I’ve seen people getting into this again and creating content, so idk, imma just leave this here. It ain’t BL but it got the most glaring BL-esque relationship I’ve ever seen in my life. You’ll get what I mean if you watch it

The Lost Tomb Reboot - AGAIN another special mention, because many handsome young-ish men who you know, head into tombs, much bromance. Based on a huge series of novels, totally not BL, but as always with like a lot of men put into one story, ships happen. This year as well, in case you’ve seen it floating around

✨✨✨  Upcoming Chinese BL live-action adaptations, confirmed + casting + filming. You may have seen some of these because like posters were recently released etc. - As far as I know these are all slated for 2021 ✨✨✨

Faraway Wanderers (Tian Ya Ke) - A danmei novel by Priest, filming wrapped up, should be airing soon. Leads are pretty cute, although I’m sure they’ll turn this bromance. One of the male leads is known for a lot of period web dramas, and Gong Jun, the other male lead, is known for more contemporary modern dramas, but damn Gong Jun’s jawline

Winner is King (Sha Po Lang) - Another danmei novel by Priest, filming wrapped up recently as well if I recall? Posters recently released, and this is arguably Priest’s most famous and popular danmei

Immortality (Hao Yi Xing) - A super popular danmei novel called 2ha or The White Husky and His White Cat Shizun by Meat Bun. Filming also... wrapped? I think, because posters came out the next day and everyone from Earth to Pluto went mad, definitely one you should look out for next year spring i think, but I’m pretty sure there’s gonna be a hell lot more teasers, posters etc. coming up and then half of danmei Tumblr will probably go into cardiac arrest

The Society of Four Leaves (Zhang Gong An) - Ehhhh I think this hasn’t yet been filmed but casting was recently confirmed (contentiously).  Concept posters are up though. This technically isn’t classified officially as a BL. There are no CPs officially in the novel, but apparently it’s very like idk flirty etc., also slated for next year

*There are a few more by Priest, e.g. Liu Yao, but no concrete news that I’ve seen (by now like at least 60% of her danmeis either have a live-action contract or a donghua contract or both lmao)

✨✨✨  Upcoming Chinese BL donghua adaptations (2021-ish). All by Priest✨✨✨

*Throwing this in just as a by the way thing, because these are also recent news (these two weeks). There might be more but I haven’t seen anything yet personally :D

Imperfection (Can Ci PIn) - Space AU, the novel won like two national literary awards if I recall like last year? Anyway a brief trailer recently came out last week I think, and main lead is handsome af, and once again it’s space and space wars so it’s pretty cool

Silent Reading (Mo Du Zhe) - Novel is called Mo Du, and honestly I think the donghua has been like teasing fans for like idk years, but it looks like we’re finally getting to the donghua as the team previewed the first ep like... two weeks ago live to an audience? Modern crime thriller thing, there’s a masterpost going on Tumblr

Lie Huo Jiao Chou - Another Priest fan favourite, a historical + modern danmei combination. Much angst from what I’ve seen, but donghua teaser looked good also, released also last week

---

anyway hopefully some part of this or at least one part answers your question? if not, just send me another ask or like, DM me hahahaha

[0tterp0p]

Okay so i followed you because your art slaps but like, what...*is* The Untamed. It looks gay I want in.

1. THANK YOU OH MY GOSH 2. I saw this, and I want you to know that I audibly cackled. Had to lean back in my chair and rub my hands together like a goddamn Bond villain. It was embarrassing, but only my dog saw, (she got up from the couch and left the room she was so done with me) and I guess whoever is reading this now OOPS SORRY. Anyway, I would be very happy to say, and I’m tickled you asked. 

Short Version: The Untamed a 50-episode Chinese drama set in ancient/fantasy times where there are different sects of people who can cultivate a golden core in pursuit of immortality. Within that, it is about the story of Wei Wuxian, the greatest villain that the cultivation world has ever known, who murdered thousands before dying himself at his lowest. It is his story and it follows him from his teenage years to his death and after. It’s also about Lan Wangji, Wei Wuxian’s actual goddamn soulmate, although on the outside they seem very different at first. It’s based on the danmei novel Mo Dao Zu Shi, or The Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation/The Founder of Diabolism. Yes, it is very gay, and it’s gay On Purpose. I say that because I think I’m used to being a little bit baited, and this is no bait. There is no reading into things. The romantic content on screen is loudly and obviously meant to be read as romantic, and it’s the most romantic thing I’ve ever seen in my entire life. It also has a happy ending, despite everything I just said and I just feel it’s important to know that going in and I hope that doesn’t spoil anything for you!! 

Feelings Version: I’m not kidding when I say that the Untamed and mdzs as a partnered whole is the most romantic thing I’ve ever seen or read. I think it hit the core of what romance really IS for me: the soul-deep understanding of another person, of knowing them and seeing them for who they are and for loving that person deeply and entirely. For loving all of someone. For sharing a core belief and seeing it’s perfect mirror in the person you love. There’s misunderstanding here, there’s pining, but through that, there is the learning of another person’s heart slowly and on a long journey, and how to handle it gently. 

The Untamed is about kindness, and circles of it. This widening pool of how you can offer kindness to anyone at any moment and about how much that means to the person receiving it. 

It’s about rumor, and the fickleness of public opinion. 

It’s about mistakes, and how to move on from them, or handle them, or make amends for them. It’s about intentions and the expected and unexpected outcomes of them. It’s complicated and it’s messy and there are no easy answers.

It’s about justice and what that actually means. 

Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian are also just, like, incredibly lovable characters separately from each other and together. They’re VERY different from each other and they are both so freakin great, I just. *clenches fist* THEM. Really, the entire cast of characters is fantastic, and I really can’t think of a single character I actually hate (except maybe Sect Leader Yao), because they’re all interesting and varied and represent different sides of a very complicated equation. 

It’s wildly sad but also wildly happy and like not to be more dramatique (tm) than I already have been, but I cried both from sadness and happiness SO MANY TIMES in its 50-episode run. Then I cried again when I read the book, which is quite different in many ways but no less delightful.

Anyway, this is why I recommend the Untamed and mdzs and any version of the story, really - there have been a lot of really fantastic posts by my betters out there that I’ll try and find again and reblog about what about it is so great, but this is my messy feelings-ridden version, ha! This content is like endlessly engaging and there’s SO MUCH STUFF you can discuss with it and it just keeps going and going - IT’S GREAT and the fandom for it is WILDLY creative and active and overall kind and chill and interesting and it’s been an overall lovely place and a lovely experience. So yeah. Um. I guess I would recommend it, heh [scuffs dirt sheepishly].

You can watch the Untamed on Netflix now (I thiiiiink it’s available in most countries?) or if not there, then Viki is where I originally watched it. You can watch for free with ads. 

The novel I read through Exiled Rebels Scanlations - that’s a full translation, but there are also several very good incomplete translations on the internet as well.

The ongoing donghua (Mo Dao Zu Shi) and chibi (MDZSQ) version are on YouTube and are also excellent. 

THANK U FOR COMING TO MY TED TALK I’LL SHUT UP NOW THANK YOU KINDLY 

Except for one more thing, the single gif that knocked me over from “considering watching the Untamed” to “embracing my full and mortal destruction”:

[felinisfeloney]

u know u just hate CQL because it's different from the book. You're just angry it's not an exact adaptation and are mad it's good and is a great adaptation. U don't even understand censorship

ok.. so everything about this is wrong. It’s very wrong because wanna know something I watched the drama first. I was excited for the drama! I watched the first few episodes was a little confused (by that I mean my brain needed to get all the names and shit straight because I can only read so fast so I got a little lost on whos and whys) and then I went and watched the Donghua after reading 10 or so chapters of the web comic and then got to the novel. I got to the book last. I read fanfic before I got to the book. I wanted to savor my experience of the book. I wasn’t even registering the book when I first started watching CQL and noted how wrong it was as a show.

And it was all in the editing and the absurd amount of scenes repeating the same point over and over.

I love when adaptations are different. I love when a team can bring something into a new medium and in the process put in new and fresh energy into something I already enjoy. I hate adaptations that are so exact they render the existence of it being an adaptation meaningless. I hate when an adaptation doesn’t have fun with the joy their medium brings. Or just are so exact it renders reading the original format meaningless. I am a huge lover of both versions of Howl’s Moving Castle book and film for their differences. I would honestly hate to watch a version of Howl like the book not cause I dislike it but because I know the book as it is written in it’s entirety wouldn’t work in a 90 minute runtime. Maybe a miniseries at best. I enjoy and love the original FMA and am a supporter of anime’s writing their own endings instead just dragging shit out or waiting for the manga to finish. I think the Soul Eater anime is perfect for what it is and I have fun every time it ends.

I if anyone should have defended CQL for it’s changes. For having the Yin Iron plot. Because here is the thing I don’t even mind the Yin Iron in principle given it has an incredibly distinct role is writing around the portrayal of the undead something that chinese media is rather sensitive about for cultural reasons that I respect and believe are valid on their part. Having it be puppets instead of corpses doesn’t bother me. It’s pining a morality on an object and low key implying it’s this objects fault for being evil and tempting evil people. 

It’s the thematic emptiness. It’s the absurd writing choices and things set up but not followed through on. Moments that only exist to reach a beat in the book even though it doesn’t line up with the new plot they have made. It’s the repetitive ass scenes where the same information is given only one new person is in the room. It’s the annoyingly one note stage acting from everyone on scene.

It’s the boring camera angles and absurd editing choices that only further convince given the cast and how they are done this show was edited around profiting off having a C-Pop band for the main cast. The only part I give props on is set and costume design and even then it really shows that they had no interest in making these people look anything but like pretty with a bit of mud and stressed hair. 

How else will we get stan gif sets?

Even if I were to just touch briefly on the LGBTQ censorship I cannot stress enough that element is not my maim gripe. My gripe is that this show is trying to profit off of a writing and editing style that only wants to insult you. You wanna know something? If they just used less middle distance shots and more closer intimate angles you could have used the subtle art of film editing to convey gay. Pay close attention to that bad clip show from the Xuanwu of Slaughter arc and note how much is distance shots. How much is camera work that displays no form of intimacy between the characters. How it is all so awkward and stilted in silence. If you could make a bromance wangxian work for me I would acknowledge the inherent yikes but I would enjoy. I can’t even enjoy CQL because it’s not done in a way that makes me ignore that corporate checklist.

Imma say this hot take even with all the obvious and glaring animation problems so far scum villain’s self saving system is a better show than CQL

If I had no idea that MDZS existed CQL would still be boring

[ouyangzizhensdad]

I love ur takes but I'm kind still impressed by ur persistent hate for cql. The novel is the base but all the medias adapted from it take a single aspect of the story and make it their own. Look at the manhwa, audio drama, donghua or the drama. I still dont know what ur issue with the drama is coz for a low budget drama with censorship they did everything they could for the novel fans (yes they recorded straight bit so if they had issues they will go straight but they are a drama)... yes they added a few things for the show to telecast it for the chinese consumption (they dont really need white validation unlike kdrama which has more ifandom). Both cql or winter begonia were handled very well and the dramas were overnight hits coz of the scriptwriters and directors keeping the novel story alive.

I think it's also coz u and most white fans of the novel or cql haven't seen anime and its live actions so u dont know that the live actions made in different periods of time change the story according to the area they're being released in... Itazura na Kiss has 3 live action dramas and all three are from different countries and different time periods so the way all three are adapted are alot different eventhough the base story is the same. If u want to follow the novel read that but if u want to enjoy the story cql, donghua, audio drama of MDZS and the manhwa are very nicely done. I hope just coz white cql fans have issues with the novel u dont spread hate for the drama that has made it possible for a relationship to be shown between two men. The asians arent as thick to think they're best friends, everyone who watches the drama knows that it's a gay love story

Hi anon, 

There’s a lot in there and honestly I don’t think I can address all of your points. But I’ll try my best.

I have said many times that I do not hate CQL and that I enjoyed watching most of it. It was a fun little idol drama that wasn’t a very serious watch. At the beginning I even enjoyed the fandom for a little while. Now, yes, I do post a lot of content that is negative toward CQL and/or its fandom. But you may have noticed a few things though. My criticisms (or my moments of incomprehension) are always related to:

Specific issues I have with the choices it made as an adaptation

People trying to pass CQL, a cheaply-made idol drama, as a masterpiece. This is nothing personal against CQL: it has more to do with how it puzzles me that people don’t see to know what competent and good tv looks like. I have nothing against people praising the show, but they don’t have to act as it doesn’t have a lot of basic, technical issues. 

the CQL fandom cross-posting everything, or bringing CQL canon and fanon into novel-specific discussions. People can mix and match the canons, of course, but it’d be a nice courtesy to be at least open about it so that people who want to stick to one canon may be able to do so. And it is frustrating because people like me have literally just given up on trying to read fics because authors are not forthcoming about which canon they are drawing from. That’s frustrating and a source of bitterness!

arguments that CQL is a stronger/more complex work of fiction than MDZS. Again, it’s nothing personal about CQL, it’s just mind-boggling having to explain something so fucking transparent. 

arguments that CQL is better “queer rep” than MDZS.

absolutely whack takes from the CQL western fandom.

You feel that the screenwriter and director kept the story alive, and hey, that’s great for you. Yes, I’m aware that adaptations will change things. Analysing adaptations is actually partly how I developed a lot of my media analysis skills. However, I personally believe that the story that CQL tells and how it chooses to tell it fundamentally changes so much about the narrative, the characters or even the genre of the story that it does not keep the truly interesting and engaging elements of the novel. It might be flippant to say, but even if the production team were truly doing their best (and I do believe they did), it doesn’t mean they achieved what they set out to do--and some of it may just come down to a question of skills, as story-tellers. 

Although I am white, I may not fit into the narrative you present since I have watched many live actions and animated series adapting a manga/manhua/novel. I watched my first jdrama 15 years ago, and to be illustrative, this first jdrama was Hana Yori Dango. In the past I’ve also watched many dramas that were originally japanese/taiwanese/chinese/korean and their adaptations. Hell, sometimes even adaptations that crossed to the western market. I assure you that I am familiar with a property being adapted at different times and in different countries and through different mediums. I’ve also interacted with the other adaptations of MDZS. The thing is, what this has showed me is simply that doing something differently doesn’t translate necessarily in doing as good of a job. Adaptations can fail, either by virtue of what they fail to do as their own work of fiction, or as adaptations of an existing property. 

I’m not trying to shit on to what CQL may mean for chinese audiences or diasporic chinese audiences as well. When I point out the fact that Wangxian is just subtext in CQL, it’s not because I think “asian audiences are dumb” but because the reason why subtext may be acceptable under censorship is that it keeps a level of plausible deniability. Some people will of course recognise it for what it is, but some will simply not pick up on it or refuse that reading. I also do take pains to remind people how the flow of capital that allows for these adaptations to exist may have to do with how far the portrayal of the subtext is being pushed over any concerns for the original story or nebulous gay rights. I do find it interesting though that CQL is often presented in fandom discussions as this unprecedented occurrence in Chinese media, since there was very heavy subtext in earlier live action adaptations like Guardians or the side couple in Love H2O, just to think of quick examples. 

But obviously anon, my more salty or bitter posts about cql seem to bring up frustrations, so if it is an impediment to your fandom experience it might be best to simply unfollow me. If you wish to stay for the novel meta and avoid these posts, I do tag them with either “brine corner” or “cql negativity” or “cql vs mdzs”.

[myfriendsarerealidiots]

Comparing Adaptations

‘Kay so I went on one of my whims again and did something stupid. Couple weeks or so ago, I wasn’t really in the mood to watch anime so I opened up Netflix and watched a Cdrama that I wanted to watch for a while now.

That Cdrama was ‘The Untamed’ which, prior to me watching it and doing said whim, I thought was just your typical historic Cdrama. Oh boy I was wrong. As I was watching it, I was thinking to myself, “This show’s really selling itself off as BL.” Which, I found out after finishing it was because it is BL. Hah...and that was just the start of it.

As I was doing my ‘Post-show research,’ I found out that it was based of a novel, called ‘Mo Dao Zu Shi’or as translated by the people on the internet as ‘Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation.’ Said novel had 2 more adaptations along with ‘The Untamed’ which were a manhua and a donghua. So me being me, I decided to watch the donghua adaptation and read both the og novel and manhua.

So how I went through this was...

The Untamed (2019)

The Donghua aka Anime I guess

The Manhua which I read while having class (such a responsible student aren’t I)

The original novel

All hail this person who has too much free time on her hands.

Anyways, as it says on the tin, I’ll be comparing the 4 adaptations/versions of the story and see what changes between them as well as the pros and cons. (Wow I sound so professional)

Some background of myself just to avoid confusion

I am not a mega hardcore Fujoshi. I don’t really enjoy reading smut, nor am I old enough to do so bear that in mind

I have 7 years worth of Chinese lessons under my belt which means I barely understand a thing and that I can get some of the jokes like how Wei Ying’s sword is called ‘Sui Bien’ and it’s funnier to hear in Chinese. In other words, compared to like actual Chinese people who live in China, I pretty much have the knowledge of a 10 year old.

The versions of the Manhua and Novel that I read were translated in English so somethings might have been lost in translation.

I have a bit of a goldfish brain so forgive me if I wrote something wrong or forgot the name of a certain character, most likely I will look it up to correct it but if I don’t...well sorry.

I am writing my opinions on each version as I finish them, so if they don’t link up to the original that’s the reasoning behind it.

All of these are my opinions and thoughts on the story. You are not entitled to follow them if you disagree. I personally believe that everyone has a voice of their own and they should use it. (Even though I don’t half of the time.)

Slight Spoiler Warning

I will be breaking down some of the scenes and characters for my comparisons so please keep that in mind.

The Untamed (2019)

As this was my first exposure to the story, I didn’t know what to expect. I loved everything about it except for the fact that literally half of the show was spent in the past, building context for what was happening in the present.

The characters were lovable and all had distict personalities, especially Wei Ying and Lan Zhan which I guess makes sense since they’re the main characters (their actors are also cute and have good chemistry.) Speaking of characters, Yanli has a more forward role in the story here compared to the other versions. The way certain characters were introduced was different too. Since it’s live action, it’s also harder to show things like extreme blushing and such so it makes Lan Zhan look very stoic and way more unexpressive here than in the other versions.

The soundtrack is nice to listen to, especially with the 2 mains singing the theme song together it’s so cute and gives it another meaning in itself. Although, I do wonder how that poor bamboo flute Wei Ying made in like 2 mins plays decent sounding music. Chen Qing(is this the name of it?), the flute he uses after his trip to the Burial Grounds has the same sound quality as that bamboo flute which is just, “how???”

They took out most of the extreme BL!!! I feel like that is the biggest difference between this version and all the rest. I know they did that to appeal to more people but it does remove some of the context to things. That doesn’t mean the moments that were kept in weren’t cute though. It did make the pair look more plantonic than romantic.

As for the story itself, as a story on its own, it’s nice, as an adaptation that’s where the line gets blurry but it leans more towards the good side. They did indeed change some things, made them work better with the medium than if they didn’t.

An example I can place is the mask. Where the other versions used white make up with oddly placed red circles around the eyes, this one used a mask instead. I agree with the choice they made, seeing as they removed the fact that Mo Xuanyu was homosexual and so the make up wouldn’t make sense. It also looks nicer than what I imagined what could’ve happened with they kept with the make up. They do make a reference to this in the show when Jin Ling and Wei Ying have a conversation in Carp Tower. “You’ve seen my face right?” “How do I know? Your face is always caked in make up or covered by that mask.”

Another issue I had which I’ll touch on later was the first episode—I had no idea what was going on for those 40 minutes of screentime.

Donghua

As of writing this post, season 3 of this has yet to come out.

My first reaction to this was “Man, the animation’s pretty, and they made Wei Ying look scarier.” Watching stuff at 12 in the morning isn’t the best thing but that’s what I do.

Anywho, this version made Wei Ying really attracted to going down the path of ‘evil’ compared to the other versions. I don’t really understand why they made this change...but they did so we have to deal with that. And his eyes glow red!! It makes him look scary and cool at the same time. I love it!!

The transitions between certain events were a bit weird to say the least. For example, at the end of episode 2/3 Wei Ying gets forcibly dragged into the Cloud Recesses and the episode ends there. By the next episode, we’re 16/23/13 however many years in the past. This makes it really confusing for someone who hasn’t watched or read any other version of the story. It definitely made me confused and I already finished one.

While ‘The Untamed’ told us everything in one long flashback, the donghua broke it up into small chunks placed whenever information was needed. I don’t think that was a good idea, but then I also think it was a better decision than what they did for the Cdrama. As I watched this adaptation, I found myself confused from time to time because what happened in the prior episode didn’t always match what happened in the current episode like I mentioned earlier.

As for the artstyle, personally, I think some of the characters look similar minus the hair. However, I do like the little ways they made Lan Zhan express his feelings towards Wei Ying.

Speaking of which, when I first saw them together in this version in the forest near the Goddess Temple, I had to do a bit of a double take because of the height difference which wasn’t so evident in ‘The Untamed’. I soon found out that Lan Zhan was taller than Wei Ying before and after he gets reincarnated(?) Prior, it was just a small gap of 2cm which later turned to 6cm after possessing Mo Xuanyu.

I didn’t notice their height gaps while watching ‘The Untamed’ because Wei Ying’s actor, Xiao Zhan, is taller than Lan Zhan’s actor, Wang Yi Bo by about 2 inches which is like 5 cm? and so they had to do some weird thing with platforms to make Xiao Zhan look shorter in comparison.

Soundtrack wise, I personally think that ‘The Untamed’ was better in that sense. Where it had an amazing souding flute, this one had minor earrape in a nutshell.

This version made itself, in my eyes look more like a historical fighting anime as opposed to the BL vibes I was getting from ‘The Untamed’ and the other versions. They added a lot of action scenes and made the mystery more interesting for me. Along with this, the overall look and feel of this made it seem like it came from a completely different source material.

Manhua

Small FYI, as of writing this post the Manhua is at 147 Chapters.

(I should’ve kept up the trend and got a screenshot from that scene in the Manhua but I didn’t so here we are with gay rabbits.)

As your local internet friend who reads more manga than normal books nowadays, I enjoyed reading the manhua and finished it in a couple days.

Compared to the first 2 versions here, these last 2 are both things that you have to read to get through, albeit one has pictures and one doesn’t.

While normally, one would read silently, I like listening to music while I do. And seeing as the OST of ‘The Untamed’ sounds really nice, I listened to it while reading both the manhua and novel when I could.

This one brought out the BL elements that were missing from the first 2. They gave Wei Ying and Lan Zhan a lot of kissing or just straight up affectionate scenes which I think ties in with the general theming of the original novel more.

As this one is probably the closest of the adaptations to the original, it’s the least confusing to read, although that might’ve been influenced by my experiencing the story for the third time at this point. I say that, however, there were many story elements that weren’t present in either one prior to this.

Examples this can be seen with their collecting of body parts that belonged to the former Nie Sect Leader. In ‘The Untamed’ they find the sword spirit which guides them through the rest of the story. In the Donghua adaptation, they get the arm, but also get the head of the the Jin with the hundred holes curse which was an original addition. Here, they get the arm from Mo Manor, find the other one then find the torso and so on before finding the head in Jin GuangYao’s possession.

The flashbacks in this version were also executed really well, in my opinion, as it doesn’t feel super confusing while reading it and it gives just enough information to help the events unfold. It also gives us a chance to see how much of an ass(sorry) Wei Ying was when he was the Yiling Patriach from his own perspective as well as give us a moment of WangXian in the middle of all that chaos.

Novel

Here’s a picture of gay rabbits for everyone.

At this point, I was switching between the novel and the Manhua to read whichever one I wanted at any given time which might have blurred my sense of what belonged in each one so I’ll try my best to make sure.

Since this one is the original source material, it was clear from the get go that this will be the one with the least confusing version of events and the most amount of detail.

I was surprised on how close the manhua and ‘The Untamed’ was to the novel. Although, the former condensed the mystery to fit within the timeframe while the latter hasn’t finished just yet.

Personally, I like this author, and will probably read more of her works further down the line. Even though the version I read was in english, I still could feel the meaning behind certain aspects which I think shows her skill as an author.

The novel clearly shows the mischief that goes through Wei Ying’s head and their gradual (I say gradual but I think Lan Zhan just snapped) change of attitudes towards each other.

Arc One- Mo Manor

Past here I’ll break down the first arc of each one because I think all of them did it in relatively different ways. Be warned for spoilers if you haven’t watched or read all of them.

The Untamed (2019)

Out of all of these versions, this one definitely had me scratching my head in confusion the most even after watching it a second time once I finished the entire show.

As the only version that had the curse issued at the start as a moving factor of the story as well as the Yin Iron which was specifically made for this version, it didn’t explain enough at the start.

There were many things I could say were wrong about this beginning, from starting at a flashback to not properly introducing us to our characters but the biggest problem in my mind was the lack of explanation at the present.

Like I mentioned, starting at a flashback is a terrible idea as it gives the viewer high expectations only for it to be crushed the second it ends. Here, it shows a small portion of the battle at the Nightless City without much context then it quickly changes to 16 years later with a seemingly random group of people.

Another issue is the amount of useless characters who were introduced. In the other versions, there were only 2 Lan disciples who were given names and were introduced properly while here there were more than I want to count. Add to that the one telling stories about the YiLing Patriarch and the weird guy walking around with a flag, and you got yourself total confusion.

Donghua

This one was slightly less confusing to watch. As it starts with a clip of Wei Ying commanding corpses which matches the overall feel of the donghua. The rumors that he died stretched over the time skip and we meet this version of Mo Xuanyu who is caked with make up, whether or not he was a cut-sleeve (gay) in this version, I forgot.

It fully explains the curse and instead of having a couple of Lan disciples just standing there watching, we get to focus on the 2 important ones, Lan Sizhui and Lan JiYing. It gives us a slightly deeper insight into Wei Ying’s mind, as he states ‘you got the wrong one,’ just after being reincarnated, indicating that he isn’t as vicious as painted by the first few minutes of the show. Like the other versions, they also show how he considers the cons of using his demonic abilities and that Sizhui would probably tell on him to Lan Zhan, meaning that Sizhui was a keen, observant young man.

Manhua and the Novel

As for the introductions, these two were very similar. Both have the rumors of the Yiling Patriarch across the screen as we get further down the story and meet our main character.

It gets the details from the Donghua adaptation and mixes it with more information to create a more detailed account of what was happening, also making this Wei Ying seem smarter compared to his counterparts in other versions. He also hesitates more on showing his abilities, knowing that he’s going to be caught if he does.

Final Thoughts

As of writing this, I’m only halfway through the novel but it covers the portion until where the manhua is currently at. I would finish reading it before posting this but it would take too long and probably make this post even longer than it currently is, which isn’t such a good idea. If I had much more patience and effort I would really like to break down each arc and their differences from one another but I can’t be bothered right now. (Sorry)

I can safely say that in terms of adaptations, ‘The Untamed’ is relatively close to the novel, albeit a very condensed version. As flashback filled as it is, it wasn’t very confusing to watch past the first two episodes.

The Donghua adaptation takes several liberties, going more of an action oriented route instead of the calmer more, I wouldn’t say love but character oriented novel.

The manhua is definitely the closest to the novel, so if you really don’t want to read a lot of words, and I mean a lot of words, then go ahead and read it.

What else do I have to say...if you’re new to the story, welcome, if you’re a veteran who’s been here longer than me, sorry for taking up space on your feed. And congrats for making it to the end.

[gravitydefyingtears]

Mo Dao Zu Shi | 魔道祖师 Adaptions

I’m sure someone already made a similar post, but since someone asked, I figure I’d quickly throw together my own.

Original Novel (aka where it all started)

Unfortunately, the original Chinese novel is still locked on Jin Jiang (the publishing platform, jjwxc.net) so I’ll just link the author’s page instead.

Mo Xiang Tong Xiu (MXTX)’s page: http://www.jjwxc.net/oneauthor.php?authorid=1322620

The most widely accessed English fan translation, by Exiled Rebels Scanlations: https://exiledrebelsscanlations.com/novels/grandmaster-of-demonic-cultivation/

The Audio Drama

Complete. A blessing. Least censored adaption, following the novel almost exactly.

Personally, I would say this is a must-listen. It’s so well made and really completes your MDZS experience. Really high quality sound editing, script, and voice acting. And the music. Wow. The music.

The official platform is Maoer FM, missevan.com

Season 1: https://www.missevan.com/mdrama/drama/15861

Season 2: https://www.missevan.com/mdrama/drama/19059

Season 3: https://www.missevan.com/mdrama/drama/22602

There is also a Japanese version currently being aired! It is available simultaneously on...

Mimi FM: m.mimifm.jp/sound/2020

Maoer FM: https://www.missevan.com/mdrama/drama/25511

@suibiansubs makes English subs for the original Chinese version (and other Chinese media)! Please join our Discord server to access the subs.

Discord info (please read carefully!!!): https://suibiansubs.tumblr.com/post/188937973861/introducing-suibian-subs-scans-discord-server

The Donghua (Animation)

Two seasons completed; story ongoing. The gay romance is censored and the plot does diverge a bit from canon. The first season was really fantastic though. Amazing animation, art, music, and voice acting. Really blew me away. At least watch the first season.

Tencent has actually made it available on YouTube, with English subs. There’s supposed to be a Q (chibi) version coming out this year.

Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMX26aiIvX5rWjEqareJBmoX-_uTFtemk

The Manhua

Ongoing. Cute art. Seems less censored than the donghua. (I’m not following it closely so I’m not super familiar with all the details.)

The official platform is Kuai Kan: https://www.kuaikanmanhua.com/web/topic/1749/

There’s a animated version somewhere. At least, I saw the first bit at some point.

The Untamed | 陈情令 (Live Action Drama)

Complete. Heavily censored the gray morality themes and the ghost (鬼) and rebirth stuff (why China, why). As such, some of the plot is...filled with holes lmao.

However, they did a great job with WangXian despite the censorship. They really tried to leave in as many iconic lines/scenes from the novel as possible. The music is also pretty well done. Still amazed this adaption exists now.

YouTube playlist (50 episodes): https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMX26aiIvX5pYn98zge18X88sfeYbnhTr

Special Edition (20 episodes): https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMX26aiIvX5q6hl3s418u7x47mIwLL4GK

There are also two spinoff movies. The first features Lan Sizhui and Wen Ning. The second features the Nie brothers.

陈情令之生魂 | The Living Dead: (VIP needed) https://www.iqiyi.com/v_19rveykozo.html

陈情令之乱魄 | Fatal Journey: not yet released

Firstly, please please please do stream from the official source. Both Tencent and Netflix do provide official English subs but many of us have found them...questionable.

So, @suibiansubs is also providing an alternate English sub for the main episodes, available via the Discord server. But please do support the official source first. Same for the audio drama.

... ... ...

Ko-fi

[kagemajaya]

So much to watch, not enough time in the week - What does Fall 2020 look like?

A list of what looks interesting in the next season and silly reasons as to why

I’m not the sort of person who likes finding out too many (in some cases even a smidgen of) details about anime I’m going to watch, so this will be a spoiler free preview of the season. Here is a list of anime I will try and you can expect to hear about on Kagemajaya.  

Click on the show names to be taken to their MAL pages for more detail.

Hype

Taisou Zamurai

A male cast gymnastics anime from MAPPA (the studio of Yuri!!! on Ice.) Enough said.

Watch the trailer here.

Chuan Shu Zijiu Zhinan

This one’s a bit of a cheat as we’ve already seen 2 episodes of it (3 for those who have VIP accounts on weTV.) However, I was indeed hype for it before it started. Based on a BL novel by Mo Xiang Tong Xiu, the author of Mo Dao Zu Shi, this one promises a lot to people who enjoy transmigration, cultivation and a bit of gay. It is also a quite funny isekai parody. The only downside is that it doesn’t share the same visual quality as MDZS, and is entirely 3D. It’s a good thing I’m not much of a stickler for hot visuals.

Watch it here on its official stream. 

Tian Guan Ci Fu

Another donghua based on a BL novel, well-known among the danmei fans also by its English name of Heaven Official’s Blessing. Also written by Mo Xiang Tong Xiu (boy, are they busy.) And a big plus: it’s not 3D, so really looking forward to watching handsome men cultivate together in pseudo-historic China. Beautiful setting, beautiful boys. Now one can only hope for an interesting plot too and we are set.

Watch the trailer here.

Cautiously Expectant

Yuukoku no Moriarty

I saw manga adverts for this one all around Akihabara and Ikebukuro last year when I went on a little trip to Japan. The bishie Professor Moriarty was an immediate pull, and as a Holmes fan, I feel attracted to most of its adaptations, despite almost always being let down. The one thing that makes me cautious about this one is that it is published by a shounen magazine that is not GFantasy, so I’m not sure if the bishie designs and the male cast actually mean what I want it to mean. Fingers crossed.

Watch the trailer here. 

Giving It a Shot

Inu to Neko Docchi mo Katteru to Mainichi Tanoshii

A cute looking comedy short about a dog and a cat.

Jujutsu Kaisen

A mostly male cast Shounen Jump affair. Spring 2020’s Kakushigoto also implied that it has a fujoshi fanbase - let’s see what that’s all about.

Maesetsu!

A female cast gag comedy sol created by Lucky Star’s Yoshimizu Kagami. I watched Lucky Star fairly recently and found it quite entertaining with many sweet/funny characters. I suppose we will see if Yoshimizu still has it. Fingers crossed.

Adachi to Shimamura

I try to watch all queer anime as they come, and this comes in from the shoujo ai quota. Looks like a pretty straightforward romance. Hopefully it will have heart.

Kaeru no Pickles: Kimochi no Iro

All I know about this one is that it has a chill looking poster and has a slice of life tag on MAL. I’m not entirely sure whether we’ll get this subbed, but if we do, I’ll give it a shot. 

Kami-tachi ni Hirowareta Otoko

Fell for the slice of life tag once again. This one is an isekai with a soft looking MC. Not entirely sure it’ll be up my alley, but no harm in trying it, maybe for a pleasant surprise.

Sore dake ga Neck

This one seems to have the cool setting of a convenience store. I did initially think this was going to be a sol as well, but seems like that might not be the case. Either way, cool setting.

Hypnosis Mic: Division Rap Battle - Rhyme Anima

Another anime whose source project I saw plastered all around Tokyo. I’m not a huge fan of idol shows but the rapping bit makes me a bit curious.

Noblesse

A manhwa massively popular among female fans which has also received one off adaptations before, it’s finally getting its turn for a full cour among the hype the industry seems to have for Korean webtoons these days (Kami no Tou, God of High School, etc.) I did watch one of the OVA’s years ago, and wasn’t entirely impressed but then again I can’t judge a whole work based on one arc adapted into a single episode. Male cast action stuff. We shall see and judge.

Magatsu Wahrheit: Zuerst

This was chosen entirely on my shallow criteria as usual: visuals with two dudes on them. Now we’ll see whether the German name is a cringe factor or it’s actually interesting.

Sequels

Osomatsu-san 3rd Season

Osomatsu-san has been a consistently high quality production for me since the beginning. The humor is definitely my cup of tea, though as with any episodic gag comedy, some sketches do miss. It is more often than not a hit. The seiyuu cast is a huge huge pull, as this is not them only acting out an already written character but you can actually hear them having fun as the sextuplets. It is also one of the rarer shows where I, as a person who isn’t great at focusing on visuals, appreciate the impeccable quality of animation. So hype for another season of this majorly fun series and to welcome Matsuno’s back home - coziness, here I come.

Quanzhi Gaoshou 2

I watched the first season of Quanzhi Gaoshou (or King’s Avatar) because it was made by the studio of MDZS, and it was the first time I had seen a good looking Chinese animation production. And it didn’t disappoint. Production quality was similar and more importantly, it had a very engaging plot - pro MMORPG players playing MMORPG,  their personal dramas and the actual (surprisingly fun for me) gameplay and action. Its most important quality is still its charming cast for me, a successful ensemble cast, where with the exception of the antagonists, everyone and their relationships are lovely. Mostly a male cast show, it does also have nice ladies. Looking forward to going back to them. My only personal issue (definitely not a flaw on the show’s part but my attention span) is that it has so many teams and characters that I forgot most of who was who. Fingers crossed it’ll be easy to get back into. 

Haikyuu!!: To the Top 2nd Season

Haikyuu is back again, to finish off the “To the Top” arc. The first cour of this season was probably the season that took me out of the Haikyuu hypnosis state where I assumed everything that came out with the name attached to it was great. It was still enjoyable in its second half but I do feel like the magic has worn off now. I hope I’m wrong and the tournament hype will bring it back again. Haikyuu is at its best when it’s tense in-match and funny with character interactions, so fingers crossed for that.

Ani ni Tsukeru Kusuri wa Nai! 4

The Chinese comedy short is back! As mentioned a couple of paragraphs ago, gag comedies are always hit or miss with their sketches, and this one is also mostly a hit for me, though definitely not at the level of Osomatsu-san. The pull of this show is the cute boys and their dumbassery. Looking forward to its easy fun and more Kai Xin. 

Also continuing...

Mo Dao Zu Shi Q, Great Pretender

Have been enjoying both these shows greatly so far. 2 more cours of MDZS Q to go with their cute chibi fun, and Great Pretender’s last case (9 eps) is already released on Japanese Netflix so now we wait for Laurent and the gang to reach us. Really looking forward to the emotional drama of Laurent and hopefully some proper addressal of his feelings for Edamame. Either way, it’ll look gorgeous and will be heaps of fun if the first three cases are anything to go by.

I might pick up other shows and most likely drop some of these throughout the season but here’s hoping it will be enjoyable overall despite the small number of shows I’ll start with. What are you guys planning to watch?

[magpiefngrl]

For mao dao zu shi what would you take from the novel, drama and donghua and combine into a new show? Also have you read the manhua/comic

Hi!

I haven’t read the manhua yet, I think the English fan translations have been taken down. If anyone knows a place online to see the original, I’d appreciate a link; I don’t read Chinese but I know the story already and just want to feast my eyes on the pretty pics.

Now, to your question (and what an excellent question!):

For me, the drama did the best job in showing the character relationships. The creators leaned hard on all the character moments and if the plot didn’t quite hold together... *shrug*. Some of their changes were because of censorship (gay romance, zombies) but others because of this emphasis on relationships.

Which is why, in the drama, there is a stronger bond between wwx and his shijie that (irrc) isn’t quite there in the books. She’s in the Cloud Recesses with her brothers (unlike the novel), she’s there when they flee the massacre of the Lotus Pier (unlike the book). She’s present in more scenes and portrayed, very prominently and clearly, as a person wwx adores and as someone who’s openly affectionate and very, very fond of him. The impact of the battle in Nightless City is gut-wrenching, precisely bc of this change.

The drama also has a lot more interaction between lwj and wwx in his first life. In the novel, there’s no travelling around to find Yin Ti iron. We go from the interaction at Cloud Recesses (where wwx is kicked out early) to meeting after Burial Mounds. This doesn’t translate to a strong bond between the two, nor is it clear why lwj wants to help wwx so desperately. But in the drama it makes sense: they’ve gone on a mission together. They discovered a homicidal statue in a cave, killed the Wen Owl together, discovered the Chang Mansion and arrested Xue Yang, had drinks in a tavern with third-wheels jc and nhs. They’ve had all sorts of adventures and experiences together. Add the actors longingly glancing at each other, and lwj’s worry after Burial Mounds makes perfect sense. It’s also more heart-breaking to see wwx reject him the way he did.

I also like the change with wwx’s death. It tells me the producers took a good look at their material and said: “these are the two most crucial relationships in wwx’s life, his boyfriend and his brother”, and then wrote this scene where one is trying to kill him and the other trying to save him. They condensed the essence of these relationships and their arcs in a pivotal and highly cinematic scene. So kudos for that.

Other little elements that the show enhanced on: Wen Qing was a more prominent character; wwx saving Wen Ning in the lake created a debt which explained why Wen Ning would be so willing to risk his own life to help him save jc.

What I would remove from the drama is the cartoony evil of the Wens. A throne room with zombies in a stark palace surrounded by mountains of lava ruled by a man who’s on the brink of insanity? In the novel, they’re simply a very wealthy and powerful sect that decides to expand and take over the cultivation world. An imperialist royal house, if you will, which I prefer. Wwx is also a more grey character. His heretical path is stark and obvious: he’s resurrecting zombies to fight in his stead. He creates fierce corpses in the Blood Pool. He loses control of the Ghost General once when he kills Zixuan. Losing control is an actual consequence. Lwj is right to worry. Esp considering how wwx dies in the novel.

Whereas in the drama, he’s casting this super aesthetic black smoke (which I LOVE, don’t get me wrong) and manipulates resentful energy but it’s not as obvious as to why this is so frowned upon. But this change was because of censorship.

The donghua sticks close to novel canon. The design is stunning. Truly amazing visuals. They also have the same voice actors as CQL! It’s a great and fast way to familiarise oneself with the fandom bc there are only two seasons with a handful of short episodes that speed through the main bits of the story.

tl;dr:

What I’d take from the three is:

--from the drama: the emphasis on character relationships plus the way Wei Ying died.

--from the donghua: the awesome visuals (the slaughter of the turtle in the cave! magnificent!)

--from the novel: the more realistic depiction of the cultivation world and the grey morality of our necromantic flute boi. Edit to add: AND THE ENDING!! Would Lwj ever leave wwx’s side after 13/16 lonely years pining and missing him? NO, HE WOULDN’T! (yeah censorship, I know)

Thanks for the ask!

[tonyglowheart]

responding to an anon about salt, under a cut for your sake and mine :’)

why the heck not my ire is up, let’s talk about some salt

anon, this is the big dang mood lol. So many MXTX antis I see, I would probably hazard a guess that they HAVEN’T read any of her other novels, and also aren’t thinking about the fact that they’re? reading translations? of her work? It’s so funny bc ppl go like “mxtx is a filthy fetishizer who ONLY writes rapey romance and pregnancy kink” and I’m like nah that’s just wangxian, and also like. yeah why CAN’T we get a lowkey bi Chinese protag with a rape kink. You don’t know what the genre as a whole looks like, sit down. Even for me as a Westerner, though, do you know how mind-blowing it is to me that a danmei (m/m) media has gotten such mainstream attention? Like sure the donghua and CQL had to be censored, but come on, when has ANY m/m media gotten this kind of mass market appeal in the US? And doubly amazing to me that it’s in China? Plus, as an Asian American, how fucking cool it is that this novel (and related adaptations) has gotten so big? 

people who comment on writing quality in English are automatically disqualified from having an opinion. People who try to argue that MXTX is a “filthy fujo” who “fetishizes” m/m, based on their bad faith/strawmen reads on wangxian? I hate, lol. And like, right now another pet peeve is Westerners who co-opted the term “fujoshi” to make it a pejorative, when it’s like. are you a woman? do you like m/m? ‘grats, you’re a fujoshi. you’re not better than people out there pejoratizing “slash fans” lol. But like, the purity wank crowd doesn’t care about that, anyone who ships wrong is a “fitlhy fetishizer” or a Problematic person to them 8). Honestly tho, I think some of the tendencies to try to make “fujoshi” a bad word in EN spaces, is like... same energy as mainstream fans who denigrate the “filthy shippers,” ya know?

But yeah lol, I mean, some ppl have tried to argue with me that wangxian does have yaoi tropes, but I’m like, fam it’s danmei not yaoi, and does it have tropes? sure, it’s fiction. are you trying to argue that tropes are bad lmao.

other arguments I’ve seen of ppl calling mxtx “homophobic” have been similarly ridiculous to me, I’m like. are we talking about theoretically women writing danmei at all? bc I’ve seen this kind of conversation before surrounding the m/m romance genre, and I guess we can have some discussion there, BUT I think also, like, it’s a romance genre that’s not strictly “LGBT media,” and there’s complex sociocultural reasons women engage in m/m media? But the ppl who aren’t saying “all shippers are bad, just the ones I hate,” I think their arguments are bad and dumb lol, and bad-faith readings on translations of a 2016 interview with mxtx. but like. who is surprised lmao.

plus also it’s like.... the thing to me is this: mxtx is writing within the context of: (1) for a Chinese audience (2) as a Chinese person. so the entire cultural contexts is different, and like, you don’t know the prevalence of certain tropes vs not, probably! I don’t either, I’ve done some basic research and read some things, but it’s hardly exhaustive!

Like, can we talk about how MDZS’s world does have some elements of homophobia to it? Sure we can. But it doesn’t automatically mean MXTX is homophobic for writing that lmfao, the real fucking world is homophobic. I’ve talked to people who actually LIKE that it acknowledges that, instead of writing a more idealized kind of world where gay stuff is okay, either explicitly or tacitly. (Actually, CQL does this, bc they can’t talk about it overtly? so they create a sort of world in which it’s tacitly okay, but also in a really... don’t ask don’t tell kind of way :/ so.)

But yeah like. ppl have cited Wangxian’s rape kink to me as “this is an example of how it’s yaoi tropes,” but like it’s very much not, lol, and you can just say you’re not into it without making it a value judgment/erroneous value judgment while denigrating another genre you’re not 100% familiar with the actual sociohistorical context of either.

[d-a-mante]

Oh shit it’s on Netflix. My favorite trash show. People are gonna be so unprepared going in.

I gotta be honest: it’s practically on a “so bad it’s good” level. Laughably bad special effects, sometimes bad acting, and a mixed bag of fight scenes (either laughably bad or okay). Some melodrama. But I love it. Big fan.

There are things I have to like about it. The costumes, for one. I think the budget went into the costumes and set pieces rather than the CGI. One of the main characters has a headdress/hair-crown-thing that gets bigger and fancier as he gets older and it’s one of the funniest things to me.

But mostly it’s the pining. So much pining. It’s one of the things improved from the novel (which I don’t recommend for a few reasons*), along with a few improved scenes. The drama does make one of the villains more evil from the start instead of a somewhat sympathetic villain whose descent into cold blooded murder was a process; and also the main character is supposed to be /the/ first great necromancer of their universe, but the drama changes that. All in all though, they’re changes I can live with, considering the improvements.

If you want an actual “primer” on the series (that is lovely and very helpful) that doesn’t have my overcritical comments, though? Head over here:

* Oh, man, the novel. A lot of fans will hate me for disliking the novel. The original overall plot is great, but I think the adaptations improved on some parts that need improving. The investigative mystery part is better written in the donghua. If you want action, you can watch that instead. The live action went the drama and relationship route, on the other hand.

So, actual reasons I don’t like the novel more than I should:

- the romance is…cringey. I’m sorry, but it is. Not the pining and sacrifice and friendship parts. Those are great. It’s what the live action built on. But anything in the realm of sexual attraction (except for maybe one or two scenes) is badly written, and there’s even one scene (that the rest of the fandom seems to love) with consent issues and I really Don’t Like It. The Chinese censorship made the writers and director of the live action cut down on the explicit gay scenes and I think that was a /good thing/. They had to improvise and still hint at feelings. Sexual scenes were changed to conversations about the relationship and imo that improved things so, so much. The main character seems to pine as much as the other guy (although he hides his with humor), unlike in the novel where he’s clueless even of his own feelings.

- live action drama softens the character personalities. Main character has more of an edge to him in the novel, and some might prefer that, but I’ll go with live action here. There’s the aforementioned Improved Pining, but there’s also less conscious playing with the other character’s feelings. In the live action he’s just pulling his crush’s pigtails. Also, one of the other main characters gets slightly more… explanation (?) near the end. I dunno if it’s the script or facial expressions or both, but I liked him more in the drama, despite hating his guts in the novel. Just better character development all around, except for the villains, in the drama.

- Something more technical. Sometimes the novel is a slog to get through, and then sometimes it just hints at things I’d like elaborated. Flashbacks in awkward places in the plot, cutting pacing. The POV limits ‘screentime’ and development of some characters. The drama has its own writing issues, but it at least fixes those issues. The donghua does even better (pacing in second season is too fast, but the first season is excellent).

Why would you even read the novel?

Details in world building and magic system. If you wanna go for the explicit attraction in the novel, go for it.