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riverdale-retread · 2 years ago

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Riverdale s6 Ep 19 (#114: Witches of Riverdale).

Friends! Romans! This episode was unbelievable.

I watched this on the treadmill because I’m an #overseas Riverdale fan and I get these episodes a whole month and change after the stateside folks but I had to get off the moving walkway because I was laughing too much. I haven’t experienced this much untrammeled joy from a TV show in my recent (very faulty) memory.

Some disclaimers:

I don’t know anything about Sabrina Pun-Name (I mean really, they gave a witch the last name SPELL + MAN) so if you’re someone who knows the deep lore of that show, please let me know if I’m missing the point entirely. By the way, what I got out of this episode is that Sabrina is an unethical asshole but I don’t know if having context for her life would make me feel differently.

This recap is going to have a lot of fandom asides and performance commentary which I usually try to keep to a minimum.

First thing! Jughead is narrating even though he’s dead. He acknowledges that he’s dead. This is headspinningly funny because he calls himself the narrator, and he’s dead, and he’s also somehow fully aware of what’s going on while he’s technically mostly dead (in the Princess Bride way!) and telling us about it. He’s a dead, literally unreliable narrator who is also self aware that he is both in a story and also talking to me, a Netflix subscriber. Riverdale is genius.

The survivors of the Girls Count When It’s a Shitty Thing version of the Death of the First Born (sons) are in the lovely cemetery paying their respects to Nana Blossom. They are Heather, Betty, Veronica, Tabitha and Cheryl. Nana Rose gets a very beautiful pink flecked marble gravestone that looks like wounded flesh actually, so given that she died of asphyxiation following immolation, this choice is very Cheryl.

I’m assuming that everyone else got a headstone too just gauging from where people are looking and gesturing, but the production doesn’t actually show us, I assume for budget issues.

Poor Cheryl. How come fandom never talks about Cheryl’s trauma? She’s always been so tribal and family obsessed, but one by one all her family has died before she even reached 30.

Percival has the gall to show up to this gathering with Uncle Fucking Frank in tow.

Cheryl, in the throes of her grief, yells at him about killing “my Nana and my Tee-Tee.” Cheryl grieves literally nobody else.

Veronica yells at Percival about killing Anthony because Baby Anthony was a Baby. Percival takes his leave, which makes Jughead sound suddenly energized. He tells us with palpable gusto - “I’ll let you in on a secret.” To which I must wonder - Who does he think he’s talking to?

The funeral was a misdirect, he says, because it wasn’t a genuine funeral since no actual bodies were in the grave. They’re dead, for sure, and in the morgue freezers. Jughead says this like somehow this is exceptional, even though it isn’t.

We cut to Dr. Curdle (no longer referred to as Junior) eating a sandwich dead-eyed and alone in his work room (complete with apple!). I object to this. Dr. Curdle is a fun funky little weirdo - he’s a big fan of Josie and he’s music night date (boy?)friends with Principal Weatherbee. Why is he relegated to having a sad solo sandwich lunch in his depressing workroom? His meal is so wholesome too - milk, apple, sandwich. He is pivotal to all the Scooby plans and yet nobody thinks to invite him to lunch - he is no more or less off putting than Kevin or Jughead at their worst, so what gives?

Then we are given a glimpse of a moment that made the top of my head twist right off:

Kevin tends to a fussy Baby Anthony in his crib. Kevin touches Baby Anthony and tucks him in. Which is more than the now-dead Fangs ever did before his demise.

Kevin, Cheryl, Veronica, Heather Tabitha and Betty take in Alice’s newscast, which claims that it was gang warfare that resulted in so many deaths at the Toni/Fangs wedding celebration at the Whte Wyrm. Betty switches it off, annoyed. Tabitha speculates the reason for Percival not killing every First Born in town - that it would be harder to cover up. Otherwise there might be thousands of deaths. How big is Riverdale again??

We come to the Sabrina (What was Her Name Again) Spellman introduction. She’s Buffy, right? “Cheerleader by Day, Queen of Hell by Night” sounds like Buffy Summers, who had an intentionally silly name and not as on the nose as Spell-man. Heather is doing the exposition dump on Sabrina.

The resurrection attempted by the necromancing witches have to be performed within 3 days. You know. Like that other guy. The guy who came back on the 3rd day. They only have 12 hours left, is what Veronica says, but Sabrina is nowhere to be seen.

Cheryl has decided to display, among all her other art (like the one dedicated to long-forgotten Minerva Marble), her self portrait as a Vixen/ Furry / Fox Head thing to all her friends, who presumably are too wigged out to notice or ask about it.

Kevin wants to know how and why Baby Anthony didn’t die, even though he was a First Born. So how exactly does the First Born business work though?? First born to either parent qualifies? (Jughead wasn’t FP’s first born but I suppose he was Glady’s). Betty points out that Kevin is also a first born. But then again, not every single first born in Riverdale died, so what gives?

Apart and hidden from the others, Kevin tells Betty that he thinks the reason he was permitted to survive this very shoddily constructed plague was to be punished with survival. This is bullshit. He has no answer to what would be worse than murdered or how survival counts as punishment. No answer, none. He just says this so he can join Moose, who has already absconded to NYC. He makes shit up about doing this to ‘protect’ others. Betty arbitrarily says that ‘everyone else will understand’ but actually I think Kevin is RUNNING AWAY FROM single fatherhood with Baby Anthony. Betty understands the urge to run away from being a parent, apparently, but the facts are these:

Baby Anthony is an orphan now, and the person who would’ve been his third parent, the person who in fact began court proceedings to gain sole custody over him is completely abandoning him now that he’s alone in the world (notwithstanding the complete faith that everyone decides to have put in Sabrina). Kevin is a POS.

Meanwhile, Reggie, who I think is also a first born, has just made a delivery to Percival of the Daggers of Megiddo (which google says is a thing invented in the Omens movie series, and are weapons intended to defeat the antichrist) all the way from Rome.

He did what now? Reggie went to Rome and obtained “arcane objects of immense power” on his own and we don’t get to see any of it?

Reggie is a very precise speaker. He says he did enjoy the trip to Rome, but is irked by the death of his ‘high school friends.’ Not “friends from High School days,” not “old friends,” and definitely not “friends” in the present sense.

While Veronica was absent from the Babylonium for all of exactly 60 hours, Percival has managed to call a board meeting, mind control everyone into both showing up and doing his bidding (I presume mind control was involved, though Veronica was not actually beloved by her own board) and got Reggie installed as CEO.

Either Veronica doesn’t know or she doesn’t care, because she’s ensconced at Thornhill with all the surviving girls of Riverdale. Betty bursts in on the sad group, who are just staring off into the middle distance, to say that Mary Andrews asks her what’s going on with Archie, about whom she had a ‘bad feeling.’ Betty sounds rather frantic as she asks what they will tell Mary Andrews if the resurrection plan doesn’t work.

I’m going to do two things here : 1) snort at the idea that Mary Andrews gives enough of a shit about Archie to have any sort of long distance intuition about him whatsoever and 2) be sad at the thought that absolutely nobody, not JB, not Gladys, nobody, has any sort of need to keep in regular contact with Jughead to make the same kind of inquiry.

Remembering she is Catholic only in moments of need (like most of us), Veronica cautiously asks where ‘the souls’ of the deceased are, so that we can get the theology download. They’re all in the Sweet Hereafter!

We get shown what that is!!

They’re playing Fred Astaire’s Cheek to Cheek throughout for this portion. I love this song and in this rendition. “Heaven/ I’m in Heaven/ and My Heart beats so/ that I can hardly speak” is the way the lyrics go. In case we the audience might be confused about what this place is. (The lyrics will do the heavy lifting the scriptwriters refuse to engage with!)

Archie’s Sweethereafter are a wife and two kids in front of a heavily laden dinner table in his house that he never wants to leave. The wife is Betty. They named their kids Polly and Fred.

I don’t understand this culture of naming people after other people, especially not those who lived unhappy lives or died violent deaths. My culture doesn’t do this. Plus there’s something frightening about Betty naming her kid Polly - it’s not as awful as naming her ALICE perhaps, but Betty had a lot of intensely negative, conflicted feelings about Polly. Same with Archie naming his son after his father. Grandpa Fred is such a sainted presence in Dad Archie’s mind, that I am immediately worried about Little Fred.

Little Fred is great at music and sports, but performs academically poorly. How interesting! In Archie’s perfect world, he wants a son who struggles academically and is only good at the things that he himself tried to be good at. I say tried to be, because it’s not clear whether Archie ever got actual A’s in music or if his one child molestor teacher gave him those grades for obvious reasons. This is the opposite of, say, the desires of Forrest Gump, who also struggled but wanted his son to be really good at school. Archie’s heaven is appallingly self serving - he wants his kid to be bad at school so he can comfort his kid about bad grades. He will concede a daughter to Betty that achieves as much as she did.

Oh and his same dog from his childhood is an immortal freak animal that never died. OR he did the Michael Jackson thing and insisted on owning a series of dogs that he called Vegas over and over.

Jughead’s heaven is markedly different. He is served coffee by Pop at the thriving Diner, with an array of Mad House Glads, his comic book, laid out in front of him. I know this is exposition but the egotism of this is so funny. Jughead in heaven is only inspired by the evidence of his own prolific creativity. Oh, and further, Jughead has great draftsmanship in Heaven, instead of his sad stick figure art that he had to make do with in reality.

Toni and Fang’s joint heaven is a very weird mishmash. I suspect (because I don't like Fangs) that this is Toni’s heaven and Fangs is just along for the ride (much like Heaven Betty is in Archie’s fantasy).

Serpents and the Ghoulies sign a peace treaty on what looks like parchment paper. They have expensive pens in a little marble and brass stand like they’re at a summit of actual political leaders. I am surprised they don’t have tiny flags arrayed to mark the occasion. Toni’s vanity is on a scale I had not expected from her to date. She wants to act like head of state, and for GANGS to function like sovereign nations. Toni takes the title Serpent Queen really very literally. (I also think she doesn’t know a whole lot about the way treaties between warring nations frequently DON’T function, but she studied social work and not history or polisci so I will have to let this go.)

Fangs says that Riverdale will be ‘more unified’ but I’m not sure what this means. The two gangs are no longer at war, so are they diving up territory? Did they merge??

Anthony is all grown up and looks older than both of his parents. And Twyla is there with her son Timmy. The two boys look at each other meaningfully. I’m very surprised by how much Anthony is styled like Malachai, formerly of the less Disneyfied Ghoulies - cut off sleeves, curls, muscular. And Timmy the Ghoulie Prince is Jughead coded.

Back in the real world, Kevin is hurriedly packing up. I hate him because he takes care to pack a big framed photo of Baby Anthony in the act of abandoning Baby Anthony wholesale. There was no discussion at all whatsoever for who should be responsible for keeping this infant alive in Kevin’s absence, you know, but gosh, Kevin will take A PHOTO with him. He is met at the door by his father and Uncle Fucking Frank, who say Percival wants a word.

Meanwhile, Reggie invites his father to come over and enjoy himself at the Babylonium, dancing and swaggering alone in the CEO suite in front of his own Lodge-esque portrait. Reggie’s main connection to anything in this world, love or hate, is about his father, but his main influence is Hiram.

And finally! We are introduced to Sabrina Spellman, who took her own sweet time coming over to Riverdale because there were other things happening in other “realms.”

Then follows what must be a crossover or something because I just lost my mind.

But I have to also ask: Am I supposed to hate Sabrina Spellman after seeing her in action? Is this what she was like on her own show? A self serving, obnoxious liar?

The next bit is loosely organized into a list of Sabrina Spellman’s Sins Against Riverdale:

Sabrina Sin 1: Forced conversion under a situation of duress

They are down to a precious few hours to resurrect the dead, and the first thing Sabrina makes everyone do is convert to a new religion. They have to do a bunch of things - sign a document, chant a chant, do a dance. All while the confirmed actual witches wink and smile at each other like creeps. By the way, the conversion ritual is done in common speech, but I will note that Sabrina also uses Latin for her spells! The ones that count!

However, the ceremony looked like a lot of fun and the Catholic Church could take some notes.

Sabrina Sin 2: Give incomplete information

Sabrina forced desperate people to convert to her religion, then tells them only in implication that there are OTHER ways beyond the thing she wants to do first, for her own personal reasons.

She also only explains that the dead have to WANT TO return only after they have Jughead out of the freezer and on their ceremonial table. Except, of course, this also turns out to be a bald-faced lie.

Sabrina Sin 3: Sabrina doesn’t have to pick the body of a person she finds fuckable as the test subject to bring back from the dead as the No 1. candidate. But she picks Jughead on the basis of finding him more fuckable than Archie. (Given that they’ve left a baby behind, shouldn’t Fangs or Toni be the first one she picks, you know, for humanitarian reasons??)

Sabrina Sin 4: Sabrina does not need to be the one to go, at all, to persuade the almost-completely-dead to return. She has no connection to Jughead (or anyone) but she insists on going so she can fuck her boyfriend using Jughead’s reanimated corpse.

The truncated bits of information she delivers is passive-aggresively designed to dissuade Jughead from coming back to life, more than anything else. This is a complete nonstarter, to say to someone who is in some version of heaven, Come Back and Fight a Terrible Battle.

Jughead turns out to be aware he is dead and in heaven and to have a memory of his own death which he recalls with pain. To be fair, Jughead’s death was the most terrifying - he was absolutely alone, underground and afraid and in pain. Jughead also has retained all of his memories, including the fact that Tabitha told him they are overwhelmingly likely to lose.

Jughead also mentions as a passing point, almost, that he can hear in heaven. Which means being unable to hear had persistently been upsetting him while alive, even though he did not ever, ever complain about it, to anyone, Tabitha included. After a childhood in which those he loved most barely ever noticed his very serious troubles and pains, he just carries this behavior of being completely silent about his misery into his adult life. He’s a very heartbreaking character, if you ever take a breath to think about it.

Sabrina really does not try, at all, whatsoever. In some ways, she CAN’T because doesn’t KNOW any of these people, and in fact never bothered to ask key questions before she made the leap into the supernatural. She did not bother to ask Tabitha or Betty or Veronica or Cheryl (Jughead’s current VIP, former VIP, and people who’ve known him the longest) what would be motivating factors to bring up to Jughead to get him to leave heaven.

I can only conclude that Sabrina never intended to succeed in bringing Jughead back, and she only pretended to come up with this idea of fucking Jughead’s body at the last minute, even to Jughead.

By the way, getting Riverdale information initially through fandom Tumblrs can be a very confusing experience. I saw the gifs about this episode weeks ago, and you know, anti-Jabithas did some bad faith editing there. Jughead does say about Tabitha, “I do hope to see her soon,” but that’s where the gifset ended. They left out the smirkily joking context of the rest of the scene, because Jughead immediately adds: “NOT TO SOON THOUGH.”

While all that is going on, Kevin is being mind-invaded by Percival. Kevin’s touchstones to sanity are - his childhood friendship with Betty and Veronica in S1 before it fell apart (this is very honest of the show), the brief moment of domestic cohesion with Toni and Fangs in S5 before that fell apart, and the one time he dressed up in a beehive wig with a full face of make-up during the Hedwig episode. He asks to be killed instead.

Anyhoo.

We are back at Thornhill where Sabrina walks out of the portal with the reanimated Jughead corpse. Tabitha is elated to see Jughead, runs into his arms, says how much she missed him.

The fact that Betty has absolutely nothing to say is a little shocking to me, but we’ll let that go. ( No we won’t, actually. I mean! It seems so out of character! Does Betty now hate Jughead? But how is that possible?? It’s only when Nick says “What’s up ladies?” that Betty snarkily comments that it can’t be Jughead - why? Because he talks to women? But Jughead has never been shy or incompetent at wooing women, ever. It’s MEN’s romantic attentions he has a hard time with. What the heck?)

Sabrina Sin 5: Sabrina the asshole smiles with inappropriate glee as she tells Jughead’s girlfriend and buddies that she’s inserted her own boyfriend’s soul into Jughead’s body. Tabitha is both tearful and furious. She says all the right things - You stole his body?? - and the suddenly super articulate Sabrina has all the answers lined up. It’s understandable that Jughead didn’t want to leave heaven! She “borrowed” his body “with Jughead’s consent” because we are not in a Wonder Woman movie!

Sabrina Sin 6: Sabrina does not say she needs Nick there to do what she should have done to begin with - send in people who have an actual emotional connection with the dead to try to get them to come back. This only proves that the entire shenanigans about shoving Nick Scratch into Jughead’s body after deciding Jughead’s corpse is cuter than Archie’s was just a way to get a warm sex toy.

Because Sabrina has this unfair advantage of power and knowledge, none of the new witches dares to question her for wasting ALL THIS TIME in doing this bullshit with the Jughead corpse.

I suppooooose you could say that Sabrina had to do this magic trick bit with reanimating Jughead’s corpse with her boyfriend’s soul so that she could get the buy in from the rest to temporarily die in order to visit the Sweet Hereafter to get their people back, but I still say that’s a post-facto justification and not persuasive. These women were willing to call in a necromancer, and dance to the goddess Hecate and do all this other stuff, so she could’ve probably persuaded them without getting herself this nice bonus. And wasting time (I cannot emphasize this enough).

At this point though, I started to find this entire thing kind of funny. Jughead has officially the most desirable body in Riverdale. Like, literally the most attractive and the most fuckable, even 60 hours after death, chilling in a freezer. Not Archie of the Abs and the Square Jaw. Not Fangs, also of the Abs and Long Lashes. It’s Jughead.

Then the two best people in Riverdale - who are a) Cheryl and b) Veronica - agree to die temporarily so that they can, respectively, retrieve an ex girlfriend who married a man and that man, and an ex boyfriend who cheated on her with her best friend from high school after the two of them flaunted their relationship in her face so much that she had a minor nervous breakdown at someone else’s rehearsal dinner. Oh and Cheryl will go in for Dagwood and her Nana as well. Betty can’t go because she is confirmed by Nick Scratch on sight to be the Whore of Babylon.

Maybe you needed to be a CAOS viewer, but the degree to which Sabrina completely accepts her boyfriend’s conclusion without question struck me as very odd.

So Sabrina is going to summon Charon to do the crossing over. Betty is the one that nudges Veronica into dying for Archie. It’s a form of full circle, I suppose - Veronica once gulped down a goblet of poison for Betty, so she might as well be a full service third wheel.(I hate this place. Please let me out.)

Percival demands that Reggie execute Kevin, in exchange for giving Kevin’s heart to Reggie’s ailing father. Reggie’s reaction - adorably appalled - and his reason (he and Kevin go all the way back to “rugrat” days) were a balm given how much pain I was in about Veronica at this moment.

Then we get to a truly wonderful part of this episode (sincere!). The three best girls of Riverdale (Tabitha, Cheryl and Veronica) are lying on the floor, ready to die. Veronica is worried about it hurting, but Cheryl, truly faithful, is “excited” to be able to say she died and came back. Veronica lets the air out of her sails by saying, not incorrectly, that a lot of people can say that in Riverdale.

Nick Scratch has to use an English language incantation, but so far, out of everyone who has done one of these, he gives it the due weight and seriousness of an actual magic spell. Or maybe this is an innate Jughead ability that Nick Scratch is making the most of. Jughead had such a good time using the formalist portentous language of the G&G game back in the day after all.

Then Sabrina summons Charon with another English language doggerel poem.

AND CHARON APPEARS and we are in an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer from the 1990s. Like TOTALLY this is a Buffy episode! I’m so into it now! The red glowing eyes of Charon (no face to minimize special effects costs), the dorkily choreographed way he moves, the magic trick of collecting the coins on the girls’ eyes without touching them, the twinkly music, the very basic fog effect, and the fact that the ‘dead souls’ are expressed as glowing technicolor versions of the girls - just SO BUFFY. It’s so FUN!! Betty and Heather are appropriately creeped out by Charon. I LOVE that little performance detail Betty has where she just does not want to make eye contact with Charon.

When the souls of the three brave girls leave for the beyond, Betty as The Responsible One asks what should happen next, and Sabrina puts her and Heather on guard duty. Then Sabrina and Jughead as occupied by Nick Scratch smirk at each other about ‘going on a date’ and get a TERRIFIC nasty look from Betty. (I love Lili Reinhart so much- she makes really fun decisions about how Betty reacts to any outlandish scenario.)

Veronica, in Archie’s heaven, lives right down the street and comes over only rarely. Archie is living in a version of heaven where he won the war and then died. This seems slightly different from the heaven Jughead was occupying during Sabrina’s visit. Veronica says to a very stubborn Archie, who doesn’t want to leave his heaven, that he’ll “do the right thing,” not least because the Real Betty is still on the mortal plane, needing his help. Dream Betty comes home. Dream Betty cooks and is able to offer to set out an extra plate at her table on a whim. Dream Betty and Archie’s ideal Veronica are most definitely not best friends, definitely not B&V. Dream Betty will look at a clearly rather upset Veronica, smile at her like a robot and blandly say “It’s nice to see you” before breezing off.

I kind of hate Archie.

In Toni and Fang’s dream world, they’ve stayed married for however old this tall muscular curly-haired Baby Anthony is supposed to be. Very straight looking. But! Their son grew up gay (or bi, unclear). The level of unnecessary ambiguity they’ve built into his coming out about who he wants to marry is annoying. He wants to marry Twyla Twyst’s son Timmy. When his parents act overjoyed at this announcement, No-Longer Baby Anthony says, joyfully relieved, that he wasn’t sure how they were going to take the news.

Why? Because they are going to become in-laws with the Ghoulie leader who once cooperated with Percival to kidnap Anthony? Or because he thinks his parents are straight married people who are uncomfortable with gayness? (But how can that be? Toni and Fang’s generation of Serpents could barely scrape together a single straight person.)

Cheryl comes bursting into their domestic bliss with a very loud record scratch sound. She should’ve gotten her slowmo entrance with a hair whip, but I suppose Sabrina wasted too much time up front for that.

Cheryl is a trooper. Or maybe she doesn’t pick up on this but in Toni and Fang’s joint heaven, Cheryl is a vile evil person, permanently left out in the cold as all the straights and bis get straight married and leave her resentful gay ass behind. Fangs says that in his version of heaven, Cheryl was a person who tried to sabotage her brother’s marriage to Polly, and also tried to sabotage Toni’s marriage to Fangs. Cheryl advises Toni to search her “mother’s heart” for the truth, then leaves forthwith.

When Tabitha bursts in on Jughead’s heaven, the sound track plays the song Guardian Angel. Yes OK, we get it.

Jughead’s heaven has grown to include more people than when Sabrina visited earlier in the day. He now has fawning fans, and I must say, rather adorably Jughead fawns right back at them. In particular he is given the proper fan freak out moment by a lanky kid who is obsessed with his works, sounds lonely, and says that not only did Jughead’s work get him through tough times, Jughead’s imaginary characters are really friends to him. To this last part, Jughead says, Yeah, Me Too.

(Is this a wink wink nudge nudge commentary about the fact that Jughead is The Narrator?)

Jughead’s heaven does not have any meaningful intimate relationships, which is very interesting. Is Jughead’s heaven one where he’s asexual? Or is it that he’s less controlling and prone to delusion as Archie - Jughead isn’t going to do anyone the injustice of inventing a false version of themselves to be his personal Barbie. He wants to eventually spend eternity with Tabitha, but will wait for the real Tabitha instead of inventing one (unlike Archie and his Dream Betty).

Tabitha also finds Jughead’s joy in having someone give him positive feedback too adorable to interfere with, so she decides to let him enjoy himself. Immediately after seating herself at the counter, she is greeted by the Angel Raphael from RiverVale, who wants to tell her some things. We don’t get to hear what they are.

Meanwhile, Cheryl walks into someone’s heaven. It has Polly married to Jason, Nana Rose is still alive, and Dagwood is buddies with his father whom he’s never met in real life.

Did Polly Cooper want to be married to Jason and be mistress of Thornhill (with the Parentdale generation of Blossoms long dead and forgotten?)?

Is this Jason’s heaven? It can’t be, because Jason has nothing to say in this heaven either.

Does Dagwood, as a minor, get to choose his heaven? If so, is Dagwood’s heaven one in which he is not a twin and is an only child to boot?

And Nana Blossom - I’m not sure what Nana Blossom’s heaven would be (being courted by smarmy young men armed with red roses a la Reggie, perhaps) - but being the great grandma in this sort of setting hardly fits the Nana Rose we’ve seen to date.

IF this is Jason’s heaven as well then he shares a weird code with Dagwood - because in this world, Cheryl does not live at Thornhill and is also an infrequent visitor, given the way Polly greets Cheryl (“Cheryl! [big pause, then, hesitantly] We weren’t expecting you!”). Why are all these het people so gross and refuse to appreciate Cheryl?

By the way, to the right of this cute /creepy family tableau, there is a decapitated baby doll’s head on a side table next to the blank easel in the living room. Just FYI.

What Polly tells Cheryl makes me wonder if this isn’t somehow Cheryl’s heaven. The maple business is booming, trees are swollen with sap, and Polly is going to have a triplet of Blossoms, so now there will be 5 little Jason progeny running around. Because Cheryl’s heaven is - now that I think of it - to get out of Thornhill but have it prosper and be allowed to visit whenever she wants.

But since Polly is the one doing all of the talking, the most reasonable conclusion is that this is Polly’s heaven. (Jason too, likely wanted to escape Thornhill, not be master of it.). This makes me think very different thoughts about Polly than before.

Polly the Dead invites Cheryl the Living into staying in Polly’s Heaven forever, but even though Cheryl is so pleased by this vision and what it gives her, she doesn’t fall for it.

Then we cut to Jughead the Possessed on a date with Sabrina the Asshole. I am going to assume that this is a post coitus meal.

Sabrina confesses that her taking Jughead’s corpse specifically so she could fuck her dead boyfriend with it was absolutely a deliberate choice made out of pure opportunism, without a single care that this was wasting the time of people who counted on her to help them prevent The Apocalypse. She even suggests that they abscond with Jughead’s corpse to live in a cabin somewhere.

Was the intention of introducing this character supposed to result in my despising her? Is she meant to be a villain? But she’s not being treated like one in the text.

Nick is an asshole just like his girlfriend so they only talk about their own interests. She weeps about whatever situation they are in, and I have no idea what she’s talking about and I frankly don’t care because she’s a dick. I’m glad she doesn’t get what she wants. Who the fuck are you and why are you in my show?

Then Sabrina Spellman kisses Jughead Jones’ corpse on the mouth and I got my first taste of what it might be like to be a diehard Barchie or Bughead watching the other ship’s scenes. I HATE THIS! PUT IT AWAY.

Back at the casino, the Mantle men are having dinner. Reggie gets his father’s absolute approval for the first time ever. Then the worm turns and his father tells Reggie that he knows he’s dying. Reggie, at this point, is completely willing to kill Kevin for his father.

Reggie’s father says that even though he failed at business, marriage and fatherhood, he wants to die with honor.

OK. Three things.

One - I don’t know about the word choice of HONOR here because I just get the heebie jeebies when English language programming give Asian people any line that mentions the word HONOR. (Nobody in contemporary Asia talks like this and in the East Asian self imagination of the past they also do not have people prattle on about HONOR. This is a white stereotype of Asian people all smooshed together and it’s always completely shit. Yes, I am the authority on this. Accept it.)

Two - That said, Jughead sneering at him during his early Serpent membership days that Reggie doesn’t know what “honor” is provoked Reggie into trying to punch Jughead in the face, so nice callback, I guess?

Third, Marty Mantle is selfish to the very last. His personal desire to ‘die with honor’ is so unhelpful to Reggie, and doesn’t ameliorate any of the failures of his life or what he did to Reggie as a child. He just wants this last vanity for himself. I reject this redemption arc attempt for Marty Mantle. Plus this is very gendered of me probably, but I much prefer that men stay alive and live long to do the dishes and change the diapers and wash the windows than ‘die with honor’ in some stupid glorious annihilation. Please stay alive and scrub the toilet bowl.

At the morgue, Sabrina and Nick say solemn farewells to each other while little birds come to watch. Sabrina sexually molests Jughead Jones’s corpse a second time before Nick Scratch eases back into the land of the dead. They play very obtrusive sad piano music over this but I’m repelled and confused. Would it have been impossible to give us a very small short exposition dump about who the hell these people are and what is going on via Heather?

The sourness of this scene is immediately washed away though by the very next scene.

Reggie, in his lonely big luxury bedroom that he stole from Veronica using the help of the devil (I love Riverdale) cries out, ‘What the hell am I supposed to do?’ about his father’s unknowing rejection of the plan to harvest Kevin’s heart for a transplant. He’s immediately answered by his own voice emanating from the Reggie Puppet. Reggie’s conscience is much more intelligent than his normal self but the thing is, I am inclined to think that Reggie’s conscience refuses to cohabit with Reggie in his body. Reggie’s conscience works via Puppet Zoom.

Reggie’s distant relationship with his conscience is shown by his calling it “Bro.” Riverdale is brilliant.

Reggie says that this is Percival testing him, and is advised by his own conscience that the best course of action is to skip town with the whole test - Kevin, his Dad, himself.

Sabrina comes back to Thornhill, where again, nobody is asking about the Cheryl-with-A Fox’s-Head self portrait given absolute pride of place. She asks, not very interested, on how they all made out with the highly dangerous mission to the Sweet Hereafter. (The show also skimps out on telling us how they got back. I wanted to see Charon bring them back.)

Betty, the one who wasn’t Good (™) enough to even get to visit, is the one who loudly blares out that everyone failed. This is very in character for Betty. She’s annoyed at everyone else’s failure. Cheryl adds that ‘some’ of them were hostile (meaning Fangs, mostly).

I want to punch Sabrina in her perfect pretty face for the way she smirks at Tabitha as she asks if Tabitha managed to “pull at Jughead’s heartstrings.” Oh. My God. You bitch. I don’t know what happened to you on your show, but I’m glad your boyfriend is dead and you have Aunties who did whatever it was that made you cry.

Tabitha says she just could not bring herself to ask Jughead to come back, to pull at those heartstrings. Jabitha are fascinating - it’s sort of what happens when two too-good people, used to sacrifice and duty, get together. Tabitha cannot bring herself to insist that her happy boyfriend come back to life, especially because she told him the truth about the overwhelming number of realities in which their mission fails and he dies.

Betty decides that everyone who doesn’t want to do what she needs them to do is crazy, and she’s backed up by Veronica who decides that the best thing to do in the face of resistance against what she thinks is right is to use brute force.

So, Sabrina, playing hide the ball TO THE LAST, finally reveals that Cheryl has the power of the phoenix and can summarily yank people back from the dead.

Cheryl, going from reclining to gesticulating, is delightful. She asks what the hell the Power of the Phoenix is. Even though Heather wasn’t allowed to give us the Sabrina-and-Nick exposition dump, she unhelpfully gives the useless definition of what a phoenix is. (Did Cheryl really not know?).

This is coo-coo bananas. But I’m also kind of feeling it.

You said it Cheryl.

Heather finally lays out what the risks are: Souls might return incomplete! Infected with malignancy! And will (she says MIGHT but actually it’s WILL) resent you for the rest of their (un)natural lives! (Just like Buffy did, when she revealed she’d been in heaven to her necromancer witch friend in the musical episode!)

Betty seems to do a quick calculation of who has died, and she’s very indifferent to most of their potential resentment and further seems to trust that Archie probably won’t resent her. (Whatever Toni, Fangs, Dagwood and Jughead might feel about anything is of no interest to her whatsoever.) Tabitha, the only one armed with real information about the potential futures, says that they really don’t have a lot of choice, because the worst is “yet to come.”

Cheryl is the best person in Riverdale. She really is. She’s told by Sabrina the Asshole that she has to burn all the corpses so that they may HOPEFULLY rise from the ashes. This thesis is untested then. AND she has to do it all alone, and given the hostile presence of people like Betty, take on all the blame if it fails. But she steps up and says she’ll do it in the mines without hesitation.

Reggie’s escape plan does not quite work. Reggie, Kevin and Marty are caught before they even gets to leave the building. Percival is not surprised, but is disappointed by Reginald.

Cheryl is not as good as Jughead’s corpse in reciting an incantation, but the spell works anyway.

To let the audience know that at minimum, Archie will not resent Betty and Toni will not resent Cheryl, we are briefly shown that Archie was willing to come back to “Fight the War” and Toni came to the realization that her reality in heaven was a fabrication. Whoever constructed the Toni-Fangs heaven did a shitty job. They didn’t bother making up any further photos for the photo album!

As their corpses magically burn, the heaven-selves start to heat up. Jughead is not given any chance to have a change of heart about coming back alive. He’s going to be the only one yanked out of a perfect-for-him heaven in which he was perfectly happy to be resurrected in a reality in which he knows he is overwhelmingly likely to suffer a SECOND miserable death in his twenties.

We get a Harry Potter fiery phoenix CGI effect to prove that the spell worked, after which we are shown Jughead, Dagwood, Nana Rose, Toni, Fangs and Archie walking out whole and hale from the blue flames.

Sabrina is walked out of Thornhill by Cheryl looking gorgeous in a red dress. What Sabrina does next puts the final nail in my I Hate Sabrina Spellman casket. Sabrina tells Cheryl to “just be careful” which is a slap-buying offense for being fucking vaguefor something as serious as upsetting Death. Sabrina didn’t give the warning for the potential risks for the spell caster before the spell was cast, and doesn’t give a proper explanation for what the risks are now that she’s taken the risk.

Jughead is silent in his misery as he always is, and this time his pain is about being brought back to corporeal life on the mortal plane. In very gentle, kind tones, Tabitha tearfully explains that he had to come back to the cold miserable reality of actual life in order to fight off the apocalypse. Then, because she’s Jughead-coded Tabitha says secondly that she wanted her boyfriend to not be dead because she loves him.

It turns out Jughead can hear AND read thoughts. He says that this ‘cushions the blow.’ Which means it had REALLY been bothering him but he never spoke of the misery his hearing loss gave him.

I’m worried that Jabitha are going to self-abnegate into oblivion. And maybe this has to do with fitting into camera angles, but Tabitha is developing the same terrible hunched posture as Jughead.

At Thornhill, Heather asks Cheryl how things really were in the Sweet Hereafter. This suddenly made me a huge fan of Heather. Heather understands that there is a public and private Cheryl, and also that access to the private Cheryl requires a soft touch, to be made in utmost confidence and discretion.

Cheryl admits that she was pained to see her family happy without her, but that she took matters into her own hands. Cheryl resurrected Polly, Jason and Dagwood! As Heather looks very freaked out, Polly and Cheryl smile creepily at each other. Polly came back wrong, right? Right?

Betty and Archie are cuddling, because Archie is given lead boy cushioning and went from being with Dream Betty to Actual Betty. Betty is a smartie and laughs at the very dumb choices that Archie made in heaven to name their kids Polly and Fred. The show is not as vicious to Archie as it is to Jughead, but it is unkind. Archie is not very talented at music from the point of view of a teacher who doesn’t want to molest him and he didn’t have very good boxing skills from the point of view of a coach who knows the sport, and in his heaven he picked names for his dream children that his living actual girlfriend thinks are uncreative, because he’s just not smart.

Tabitha checks in on Veronica. Veronica is given not great news that she could be Endgame with Archie in the same percentage as Barchie being endgame. Um. Tabitha says as a conclusion that Veronica’s future is ‘up for grabs.’ Which could mean I dunno JERONICA endgame or VEGGIE endgame just as well but oh man.

Why is Veronica not more upset about what has happened with the casino?

In the vault of the casino Kevin Keller’s father has abandoned Kevin to be executed by Percival in the morning. I mean, the Mantles are in there too but wow that is COLD. Reggie turns out to have a magic knife in his possession. He’s determined to kill Percival.

Tabitha is doing the rounds. She checks in on Toni and Fangs. My general impression of that apartment is it being dank and dark, but with Tabitha there it’s revealed to be a bright yellow interior, with flowering hanging plants. Is this the magic of Tabitha?

Fangs, by the way, still has not touched Baby Anthony. He and Toni are seated next to the crib staring at the baby, but he doesn’t touch him. At all. What gives??

Tabitha tells them that Baby Anthony is immortal. Then she announces that she is Riverdale’s guardian angel. She is lit like the Virgin Mary in Renaissance paintings as she says this.

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viscountessevie · 2 years ago

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Just saw your anti kathani tag. I am gonna share the fact that my mom had a classmate named Kothoni (Bengali pronunciation of Kathani) in school. Like obviously CVD chose it with his white fingers but it's a name that actually does exist and meaningful (in Bengali it means story). Also since I moved to Europe I only use Amy with others even though I prefer my og name because it's easier. It's shockingly common & I know my other desi friends do it too. Just wanted to add another desi perpective

Related to this post that had a section about me hating the name Kathani shsjhd and the tag the anon mention has now been renamed #Kate Name Discourse!

I felt bad naming it Anti Kathani in the first place cos I'm not a Kate anti at all I just dislike the name lmao (more on that later because I have changed my mind!) but I was sleep deprived and didn't think of another name at that moment.

Hello there! Thank you for being so polite about this message providing your perspective and honestly this is the message I really needed after the Kathani line dropped in Ep 8!! My friend Triv - who has also made posts about why CVD ‘making up the name’ was problematic - and I searched e v e r y w h e r e for the definition of it because we thought it was Tamil or some form Indian name but came up with absolutely nothing. We did find a single Kathani who is a doctor in the Midwest lmao - I’m not saying anything more cos we do not dox people here. But yeah we chalked her up to be an outlier.

SO THIS post really helped put the name into perspective and honestly the Bengali meaning of it being story is so pretty. Definitely a step up from the definition some people found and romanticised. It was some random Hindi word similar to ‘kathani’ and it means ‘statement’. I loveeee these name definition edits but when I see Kathani being just ‘Statement’ I just feel so underwhelmed lol. But yes because of this ask, I change my mind. It is a valid name as Kothoni and hearing it pronounced as a Bengali word is gorgeous tbh. So I retract all my old statements saying its not a real name or calling it ugly. I still hate the way it was used and pronounced on the show though, but separate from that on its own, it’s a fine name.

Also I FELT the Amy thing, I used to go by Skye all the time, god looking at it now it feels so foreign like Skye??? WHO is that? (I do have a lovely mutual named it tho - hii Sky if you see this post ahahah) I got rid of it because it was a name an ex friend came up with to make me more pliable and ‘whitewashed me’. So when she yeeted from my life, I yeeted the name too.

But for the viewpoint of Kate, yes she may have preferred being presented as Kate but the show never tells us that, also why was Anthony of all people the one who says her government name first, and who told him that was her name?? Pretty sure Eddie and Mary weren’t talking to him properly still and where they find the time to tell him lmao?? So many questions and no answers because we TOTALLY needed a pyramid scheme sideplot for the Featheringtons.

Thanks again for this ask anon I appreciated it!!

#Bridgerton #Kate Sharma #Kathani Sharma #Kate Name Discourse #WE HAVE A PROPER DEFINITION AND NAME ORIGIN PEOPLE #It's Bengali but mispelled and it means Story I love it to see it #Fun Fact: I used to date a Storie so Anthony and I are the same AGAIN #Bridgerton Asks

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shinwoonoh · 3 years ago

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thank you @jaehwany for tagging me!!

1. your all time favorite bl and why surprise, surprise! it’s itsay! why? because i cried and i was emo for a WEEK after ep 4. that scene with teh and his mom spoke to my core. in that moment, i was teh and teh was me.

2. that one bl that scarred you for life y’all, i love why r u but those two porn eps??? LMAOOOO and the image of saifah eating zon’s face???? i largely think it’s because i’m ace and i was just like EWWWWWWWWWWW

also i wanna fight the doctor in together with me. i’m sure the actor is really nice but when i see him in ads before certain shows, i wanna *POW POW POW*

3. is there any bl that made you feel very single? cherry magic. kurosawa and adachi are the sweetest humans in the world and i think about kurosawa pining for 7 years a lot.

4. if you could change one thing from a bl, which one would it be? when two and un just hugged at the end of theory of love. also the fact that un didn’t actually like third. i wanted a love triangle!!! (am i menace to society? yes. yes i am)

5. that one bl you detest (don’t hold back) i don’t detest any bls. i feel like it’s the fandoms that put me off of it more than anything sometimes. it’s hard especially because i’m always the clown in fandom, shipping ghost ships and having dumb hot takes LOL and sometimes, once in a while, i’ll come across someone who is anti-*insert bl show* to a point where i feel like i’d be ostracized for expressing even my ENJOYMENT of a show.

6. your top five:

in no particular order: to my star. itsay, tharntype, light on me, cherry magic, gsp!!!!!!! (oops that’s 6 but i can’t just give 5!!! it’s criminal!!)

7. that trashy bl that you lowkey like

why r u!! DUDE FIGHTER HARASSING TUTOR AT WORK LMAOOOOOOOOOOOO boy was just trying to make money so he didn’t have to get beat up but that annoying dude is sticking post-it notes on the merchandise. and the atrocious english subs just adds to the flavour, honestly

8. your favorite korean bl (it’s important we know)

TO MY STAR🌟TO MY STAR💫TO MY STAR ⭐️

i think i maybe make up 30% of the views on viki. i put it on as a comfort thing and i think it’s one of the best (short) kbls with characters that are established very well in the time constraint that they had

9. but also your top 3 for kbls

TO MY STAR ⭐️⭐️⭐️ LIGHT ON ME 💡💡💡 and.... TO MY STAR again ⭐️⭐️⭐️

ok but of course i liked wyel and lol, i really liked nobleman ryu’s wedding! i think i mostly am just in love with han se jin. he’s so pretty <3

10. season 2? which one?

TO MY STAR ⭐️⭐️⭐️TO MY STAR ⭐️⭐️⭐️TO MY STAR ⭐️⭐️⭐️TO MY STAR ⭐️⭐️⭐️TO MY STAR ⭐️⭐️⭐️TO MY STAR ⭐️⭐️⭐️TO MY STAR ⭐️⭐️⭐️SOOOOOON

i haven’t watched s2 but i know it’ll be GOOD. i believe in my lord and goddess director hwang da seul

11. a bunch of dramas will air soon. which ones are you the most excited for?

did i mention, TO MY STAR????????

oh and semantic error!! do yourself a favour and read the manhwa or watch the animation of the kiss scene

12. tag them!

i’m shy and i won’t tag anyone heh but if you see this and do it, tag me and i’ll read your post!!!!

#me #i'm sure i'm forgetting some bls #aaaand also i'm off to rewatch cherry magic rofl #tag post

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rughydrangea · 3 years ago

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reveal your watch and rewatch drama list

@yeo-rims tagged me, and the state of what I’m currently watching is kind of shameful, but I was in the mood for some ritual humiliation!

watching:

Severance! I’m four eps in and loving loving loving the creepy atmosphere and of course the anti-capitalism! I also just love how fucking weird everything is, the way that every time the severed characters start talking about Lumon or the handbook or the other departments it’s so stilted and formal (I’m thinking especially of Zach Cherry’s character comparing the different departments and his summary of MDR is something like “we’re loyal and true” like they’re fucking knights of the round table or something).

Kongen Befaler! I’m on the currently airing season, finally, except for I’m really sad about it, because soon I’ll be completely caught up. This show is so fun; I really do think the Taskmaster format is tough to fuck up, but I love seeing how different productions put their spin on it; Olli as the super-sexy assistant with contempt for everybody except Atle, whom he humors, is such a fun twist. Also the casts have been genuinely delightful and the fact that apparently there are absolutely no workplace safety standards in Norway is troubling, but it does give us a ton of incredible tasks revolving around fire.

Magnificent Century: Kösem! My reaction to this show is basically identical to my reaction to the original: it’s great when it’s women scheming and backstabbing, it’s soporific when it’s men talking about politics (I skip all those scenes), and I love a complicated romance, but I frankly don’t think there’s anything complicated about Kösem living and dying for Ahmed and him promising that he loves her too and then constantly fucking other women and yelling at her when she gets hurt. That’s not complicated, that’s a man sucking. And frankly, I wish they would let Kösem be more pragmatic about her life and her relationship with him because hanging it all on love is impossible to buy when he doesn’t act like he loves her! (It’s even more frustrating that they also pulled this shit with Suleiman in the original, which was actually much worse, because historical Suleiman basically was monogamous once he got serious about Hürrem. I sat through that once, I really am not enjoying round 2, which is why I’m looking forward to Ahmed dying). Also, I’m watching the Russian dub, so whenever I watch it I can justify it as work.

Joy of Life... I’m about halfway through, I’m basically enjoying it, but I haven’t watched in a few weeks, I just don’t feel anything compelling me to go back to it. I don’t plan on dropping it just yet, but I may if I don’t find a desire to return.

Someday or One Day.... I watched the first episode, and thought it was not bad, but it really didn’t grab me. The only reason I haven’t dropped is that I know the plot hasn’t properly started yet, but it’s the show’s job to make me care about getting to that point!

plan to watch:

That upcoming sageuk with Jang Hyuk, Lee Joon, and Kang Han Na... Red something? I miss sageuks!

My Liberation Diary? Is that the title? It’s from the writer of My Ajusshi, I can’t resist, plus Kim Ji Won!

Our Blues. I don’t like omnibuses but I like No Hee Kyung and I can’t deny I’m really looking forward to seeing Kim Woo Bin in a drama again.

What else..... Maybe Pachinko? I’m reading the book right now though so it might be a while. And I legit can’t think of any other shows. I mean, Taskmaster when it comes back, of course. Any other sageuks anyone feels like making... Oh yeah, isn’t Joo Won doing one?!?!! Another Joseon prohibition drama, though, right after Yoo Seung Ho and Hyeri. The way you know that I have taken leave of my reason when it comes to Joo Won is that I plan to watch his next drama even though his last drama was Alice.

rewatching:

....I’m rewatching s6 of Taskmaster along with the official podcast. I don’t know what to tell you, that show gives me joy like nothing else. Sometimes all you want in life is to watch a man try to fill a condom with whipped cream.

not tagging anyone, but please do it if you want!

#...okay i'm watching more than i thought i was #but the fact that i'm being so bad about dramas is really breaking my heart #somebody make a drama that grabs me by the guts please!#real life

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puppy-phum · 4 years ago

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get to know me

am going to mix these two different tag games into one post so thank you a lot for tagging me @jazthespazz and @i-am-just-a-kiddo ♥

it’s somehow funny to do these same games again after a while so let’s see what I come up with:

Part I

name: real name petra but i prefer vish/vishie over here ^^

pronouns: she/her

star sign: aries ♈

height: 178cm (which am coming more and more proud of while i realize how damn tall every cdrama actor is lol)

time: 10:37pm as am answering this one

birthday: 10th april!

nationality: finnish

fave bands/groups: ah well this is always a hard question but let’s go with these: BTS, DAY6, OneRepublic, Hurts, Oneus, Hoppipolla, TXT, Red, Mamamoo

fave solo artists: (forgive me if i’ve assumed any of these wrong) Novo Amor, Talos, Crywolf, Liu Yuning, SYML, EDEN, PVRIS, Joker Xue, NF, Halsey, Sleeping At Last, Nuz, HyunA, Sam Smith, Taemin

song stuck in your head: it’s OneRepublic’s Rescue Me bc of the song tag game i did earlier today :’D that one always gets stuck in my head whenever i as much as see the title lol

last movie you watched: i think it’s The Yin-Yang Master (2021)? I haven’t watched any movies after that bc am so busy with all of my dramas haha

last show you binged: i think binged would be The Journey Across the Night! I watched that as a whole in 4 days

when you created your blog: in 2013

the last thing you googled: ummm i think it was “what is a ball of wool called” bc of fic purposes haha as a non native speaker i always get a bit lost with words like this

other blogs: none, i just dump everything here like the idiot i am

why i chose my url: dates back to my intense summer of binge reading J.R. Ward’s Black Dagger Brotherhood series. Vishous was my favorite of the brothers haha. i first used this username in some random game on my nintendo ds lol

how many people are you following: 358 which somehow feels like a lot but also like way too few?? i should probably search for some new blogs with other topics than cql, bts and/or dmbj bc i do love a lot of things at once

how many followers do you have: over 800

average hours of sleep: i’d say around 7h

lucky numbers: i remember answering 5 previously? i don’t really have a lucky number but 5 pops into my head

instruments: nope, no. not touching those tyvm. i admire everyone who can play any instrument tho

what i’m currently wearing: black jeans, socks with foxes on them (plus my woolly socks), a gray cardigan (my fave thing ever!) and an orange/brown top

dream job: writer would be ideal but that is very faaaaar into the dream zone

dream trip: around different parts of asia to taste all the amazing food ;; maybe a road trip of sorts through europe? or inter railing? another trip to london bc i miss that ;; a trip to the very northern part of lapland to see all the auroras etc! i’ve never been that far north :’D

fave food: if i need to quickly name something then sushi. otherwise am pretty fine with anything spicy

top three fictional universes you’d like to live in: i remember thinking about this a lot the last time i answered this but hmm. currently i’d say dmbj still bc that world is fascinating AND i would love to talk to the characters. mass effect would be the second one currently bc i miss those games and the space stuff is super cool! and the third one would be assassin’s creed rogue bc that is my fave ac game and i like the northern sea and the places in it AND i could probably be one of abstergo’s employees instead and just test/play those simulation games haha

Part II

Last Song: am currently listening to my playlist with just everything so i have Andrew Belle’s The Enemy playing right now (also I only just now realized that Andrew Belle also sings Pieces which is one of my fave songs? my bff linked that to me after it played in some tv series she was watching)

Last Movie Last Stream: i didn’t want to mention the same movie again or skip this question and i’ve wanted to talk about this anyway so! i watched Liu Chang’s bday live last night :’D it was so much fun even if i couldn’t understand anything. it was just nice to watch him being himself and have fun and chill with his fans. also the songs were amazing ;; i cried with Liu Sang’s character song as well as the ending. and all the while i couldn’t turn my gaze away from his eyes! he has such pretty eyes and they were absolutely Sparkling throughout the whole stream, it was so nice :’)

Currently Reading: Devotions by Mary Oliver (i adore her poems! they’re a very nice change after Siken haha) and then some uni stuff for a course about culture and mental health plus my thesis

Currently Watching: Douluo Continent, Word of Honor, The Long Ballad

all of these are amazing and make me feel different things! i started Douluo Continent just a while ago and am now on ep 16 i think? it’s been very pretty and very chill and i watch it during the weekend while i wait for new episodes to the other two :’D it’s nice to see Xiao Zhan again and i’ve enjoyed the rpg game type of feeling in it? the group of seven is doing amazing and it’s interesting to watch them craft their team work! Word of Honor again has reached the ending and i just hold my breath with it. am not too far gone with it so i am not getting as heavy feelings about it as i probably could but i enjoy it alot still and i do cry at times ^^ and then The Long Ballad has just blown me away! i didn’t expect to love it this much and be this invested in it but everything about it has been such a positive surprise and it keeps making me super emotional! i love the characters and the story and the romances even! it’s a great accomplishment for me. also yes i cry on the daily bc of hao du and bc of ashile sun’s hair haha

(i am also rewatching Ultimate Note kind of and been thinking about getting into rewatching Reboot bc it has been on my list ever since i finished it)

What is antipoetry to you: okay hmm i had to google this too and have to agree with Kiddo here. i don’t have strong feelings about poetry tbh, i wasn’t into poetry that much before maybe a bit over year ago? Siken has really blown me away haha. but i have always loved song lyrics which i never thought as poetry but then Kiddo said to me that they consider them poetry and yeah ok. i agree? so idk poetry can be whatever i suppose. i’ve never seen any rules in it anyway. i know there are many rules for different types of poetry but then again. i feel like poetry has always been just words put together to feel things and i guess that is the core purpose of every written type of art in the end right?

Currently craving: a drama as good and as personal as The Journey Across the Night. that show really just stole my heart and i want that feeling back. i think about that show every day. i miss Li Jia and his two partners. i miss the vibes. i miss sitting on my floor watching it and just sobbing my heart out haha. also! craving a properly subbed, whole version of Anti-Fraud League. only the first 12 eps are badly subbed out there. wetv has... blocked? deleted? the whole show??? i need it to my life, i wanna see Xiao Yuliang being cute as Mi Ruo and i wanna know where the story goes smh

thank you so much for these both! i had fun ^^ also am sorry this is so long but haha if you’re asking me to talk about myself and my interests then this is what you get :)

tagging (to do which ever part you want or both!): @cross-d-a @jockvillagersonly @humanlighthouse @kholran @xcziel @minmoyu and @leonzhng ♥

#tag game #this was so much fun ok #also yes am an emotional mess #especially when it comes to liu chang/liu sang #and if anyone has any knowledge #about anti-fraud league #then am all ears???#thank you for tagging me!!

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forestwater87 · 4 years ago

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Every episode of Camp Camp ranked: A very (non)objective list

It's well past the time of year when Season 5 of Camp Camp would've dropped. I fully understand and support it not coming out; the crew's health and safety are much more important than a comfort show.

However . . . man, would it be nice to have some comfort right now.

So I'm reliving the entire series! I've been known to share with the world a whole bunch of Spicy Hot Takes, but I've never really sat down and talked about my feelings about the show as a whole.

And what's the best way to do that? Well, just ask Jenny Nicholson: a numbered list! That is, here's the series ranked from worst episode to best, because I want to get the negativity out of the way early and focus on everything I love (and because people enjoy complaining, so let’s frontload all that).

The takes will be hot. The feelings will be intense. The post, I'm assuming, will be largely unread.

Let's do it!

Oh and duh, there are spoilers. I tried to keep it pretty chill, but you’ll want to have watched the whole show or just not care about spoilers before going forward.

Also slashes in the middle of “naughty words” are meant to prevent this from being kept out of the main tags. Who knows if it’ll work? I don’t.

60. Who Peed the Lake? (Season 4, epis/sode 3)

Ah, good ol' Pi/ss Lake (or as @hopefullypessimistic84 calls it because she's funnier than any of us will ever be, “Pis/s Fe/tish Dot Com”). Terrible, one of the few I’d consider nigh unwatchable. I actually kind of love this episode for being such great shorthand for "the absolute worst one."

Who signed off on an entire episode centered around Sherlock Holmes meets a bad om/o joke? Give me names and addresses: I just want to talk.

59. Reigny Day (Season 1, episode 6)

And nobody was surprised.

I'll admit I'm more willing to defend this episode than many people, but it's not . . . like, good. It seemed okay when there were only 11 other episodes to compare it to, but now that there have been so many bangers, this comes across as extremely weak.

And let’s just say the Na/zi jokes hit a lot differently in 2020 than they did in the summer of 2016.

I’m overall happy with the direction the showrunners have moved Dolph’s character in, and I can’t totally blame them for using a kind of humor that was fairly common in the pre-Trump era, but yikes, this has aged like milk. And it wasn’t even very funny at the time, so it aged like milk that was already pretty bad to begin with.

58. Squirrel Camp (Season 4, episode 10)

This is a dumb one.

Not much else to say; it’s just kinda stupid and lame.

57. Fashion Victims (Season 4, episode 13)

I love Sasha, but this is filler. Which isn’t in itself a bad thing -- I have a couple episodes near the top that could reasonably be called filler, and a valid argument could easily be made that “filler episodes” don’t actually exist in a show with no plot -- but as much as I adore the Flower Scouts and enjoy the handful of good moments we get in this episode . . . who cares? Does anyone really give a sh/it about anything that happens here? Does anyone get their life from this one?

I didn’t think so.

56. Foreign Exchange Campers (Season 3, episode 3)

I know, I know, your Russian waifu came from this episode. Why do you think it’s so low on this list?

Okay, for real: this is . . . fine. It’s fine. It’s fine? I’m not mad at it, it just feels tonally incongruous and not very memorable beyond the fact that the fandom got really weird and kinda gross about Vera. But the episode itself? There’s some cute stuff with Neil and Nikki being jealous, but for the most part it’s a big hunk of white bread with some super mild white cheese that’s kinda soggy from sitting in a bag for too long and getting all condensation-y.

That is to say: it’s fine.

ETA: Space Kid does say “fu/ck.” I can’t decide if that’s a point in the episode’s favor or against it.

This is the last of what I’d call the “bad” episodes. Everything after this ranges from mediocre to mind-blowingly amazing. But whatever our failing tier of Camp Camp episodes is, it stops right about here.

Onto the good stuff!

55. Night of the Living Ill (Season 2 Halloween episode)

I keep switching this with “Eggs Benefits,” which probably means they should be tied. But whatever, this is my list and I am in charge and I’ve finally decided, after like 5 changes, that I like this one a little bit less.

It’s a fun Romero parody with nothing I’d call bad. Really this one’s only so low on the list because I think it’s kinda icky, and looking at those green snotty faces makes me queasy. If you think this is a bad reason to put it near the bottom of the list, then make your own post.

54. Cameron Campbell Can't Handle the Truth Serum (Season 4, episode 11)

I . . . don’t remember this at all. I initially had it a bit higher because I tend to love things with Campbell in them, but then I realized that nothing about this episode stuck in my brain even a little bit.

Oh, this is the “Dolph has autism” episode that made everyone either extremely happy or really mad? Okay. I guess that’s the most remarkable thing about it. Neato.

Cam, I love you, but this was just not the best use of your sleazy charm.

53. Eggs Benefits (Season 2, episode 9)

This is one of those episodes with enough cute moments and good ideas to save it from being totally unmemorable, and I mostly enjoy rewatching. Platypus being a mom is a fabulous idea, and pairing the campers the way they did was mostly really interesting and fun.

The Preston-Nurf stuff takes it down several pretty significant notches, though. It’s what the kids would call problematic, and while I normally enjoy how the show doesn’t skew away from darker themes and jokes, it didn’t really fit either of their characters and just . . . isn’t fun to watch. It’s not especially funny, it’s not especially tragic, it’s just uncomfortable.

52. Camp Campbell Wants YOU! (Season 1, episode 0)

Honestly, this would be a lot higher if it was a full-length episode. It’s funny.

The next 5 or so episodes fall under the “cute but not very memorable” umbrella:

51. Nikki's Last Day on Earth (Season 3, episode 4)

I love the ensemble episodes, so this was always going to score higher than any of the single-character “meh” eps. I didn’t see the twist coming, though I know a lot of other fans did. Textbook example of “cute but not very memorable” -- the Platonic ideal of that concept.

50. The Candy Kingpin (Season 3, episode 9)

A clever idea that plays on Max’s worst characteristics and then calls him out for them, while also giving Dolph some much-needed character development. Unfortunately, I don’t feel like it really picks up until the last third of the episode, leaving the rest just kind of sitting there.

49. Campfire Tales (Season 4, episode 13)

Who doesn’t love campfire stories?

That’s all I got. They’re campfire stories.

ETA: OH SH/IT THIS ONE HAS THAT REALLY SCARY STORY! Where David’s all like . . . Slenderman’d. Fu/ck, I didn’t remember that until I was writing out my thoughts for #35 or so. That definitely elevates it, but I’m too tired to try and re-decide where this should go, so just tie it with “New Adventure!”

48. New Adventure! (Season 4, episode 4)

New trio! Focusing on these 3 was a definite risk, and I think it really paid off. While the “plot” itself isn’t anything special, there are a handful of really great side gags (hi, Dirty Kevin!!!!) and it’s fun to see these three interact. They all get some nice character beats. It’s a good time.

47. Something Fishy (Season 3, episode 8)

This might’ve hit me harder if I’d actually seen The Shape of Water, but the send-up works fine without having more than the seen-the-trailer level of understanding. Gwen dresses pretty, which I love; Max sucks, which I also love. What drags this one down is mostly feeling like the surreal aspects of the comedy go a bit too far into the “what the fu/ck am I looking at?” territory without really . . . making an actual joke beyond “look! Wacky!"

Why is David at the opera with a bird? Why??

46. City Survival (Season 3, episode 11)

Literally do not remember a single thing about this episode except David getting mugged and being called a “homeless twi/nk.” That should probably rank it lower on the list, but David being a fluttery mother hen saves it for me -- as does the fact that it leads directly into one of my favorite episodes, and the single best story arc of the series.

Next set of episodes is what I’m going to arbitrarily call “okay! but like the good kind of okay, not the bad kind.”

45. Bonjour Bonquisha (Season 2, episode 7)

Max and Sasha masterminding a scheme is really fun; their dynamic is great (though it won’t be fully realized until Season 4), and heartbroken David is so tragically cute it actually makes my heart explode out of my chest.

Also I can’t resist a good “3 kids in a trench coat” gag.

44. Anti-Social Network (Season 2, episode 2)

Neil is very relatable and I don’t have much else to say about this one. It’s fun to see an episode that more heavily focuses on our nerdy science boy, and Max and Neil teaming up to save Nikki was really charming and sweet and set my Makkiel ship out to sea.

43. A Camp Camp Christmas, or Whatever (Season 2 holiday episode)

Why does this episode have a musical number? It’s not good.

Okay, that was mean. This is fun and cute and Gwen wears a pretty purple sweatshirt and Space Kid gives her a present and it’s really sweet. But that musical number is an instant fast-forward for me, sorry.

42. Preston Goodplay's Good Play (Season 4, episode 7)

We get some Preston character development! Awesome!

It’s done in a really trippy and surreal way that totally fits his character and heightens the drama of the episode! Awesome!

David has an apparently-tragic history of being a French mime! Not a good call!

Next tier: Some good sh/it! (Tbh, these could all be put in just about any order; they might as well be one massive tie.)

41. Cookin' Cookies (Season 2, episode 11)

I love the Flower Scouts. I love Dirty Kevin. I love the idea of accidentally starting a dru/g empire. Another weird, borderline experimental one focusing on side characters, and I think it works better than “New Adventure!” because the scale of the melodrama is just so over-the-top.

The fact that this is in the bottom 20 but I have nothing but good things to say about it illustrates how dang good this show is. It’s only getting better from here, folks!

40. Romeo & Juliet II: Love Resurrected (Season 1, episode 7)

Preston is a terrible playwright. This makes sense, because he’s like 11, but he’s the kind of hilariously bad I wish I’d been as a preteen, because his play is absolutely bonkers. Max fucking with David is great, Tabii vs. Bonquisha is great, Bonquisha in general is a giant amazonian goddess and I want to be swept up into her giant arms. Neil is . . . a robot, for some reason?

So much fun!

39. Camp Cool Kidz (Season 1, episode 4)

I don’t love Ered’s characterization in this one, but there are a lot of wacky hijinks in this episode that I think make it really enjoyable. Max’s wide-eyed revolutionary naïveté is a fun change from his usual dour pessimism, and Nikki’s loyalty to Ered is both very gay and very charming. Plus we get to learn a bit more about how the camp operates (and fails to operate), and it’s a nice way to better establish the campsite as its own setting.

(Definitely think “Cool” should’ve been spelled with a K though. But whatever, I don’t write for the show.)

38. Scout's Dishonor (Season 1, episode 3)

The birth of Neeancy! The introduction of the Flower and Wood Scouts! Neil saying “cu/nt” -- one of the first and only truly shocking uses of profanity in the entire show! ZUKO!

I don’t know if my fondness for this one is rooted mostly in nostalgia or if it was actually really fun, but I enjoyed the he/ll out of it. Not as highly-rated as some other episodes mostly because it doesn’t really do anything, character or story-wise, but not every episode needs to be a massive game-changer that drowns us in feels. Sometimes it’s enough to have a fun romp, and this is very that.

37. Ered Gets Her Cool Back (Season 3, episode 2)

Awww, Ered. I have a soft spot for her, because I love the archetype of a spoiled bit/ch clearly still figuring out how to be a person and have friends. You really get the sense of her as a teenager trying to sort her shi/t out in this episode, which I would love to see more of. Her interactions with Nerris are top-tier, and I like that it’s a continuation of how her character’s been softening since Season 1 into this kind of big-sister figure.

Also, all the female campers in this show are lesbians. I do not make the rules.

36. Attack of the Nurfs (Season 4, episode 2)

I feel like this is a pretty underrated episode. But then again, I feel like Nurf is a pretty underrated character, so maybe that’s just my own personal bias.

I really enjoyed all the different iterations of Nurf, and I think Blaine did a killer job giving each one its own personality and life. It’s a fun episode that plays hard with cartoon physics (a 3D printer printing people! I love it!) and has a surprisingly moving ending.

At least, that’s what I think. Most other people seem to find this one pretty forgettable. Again: make your own da/mn list. I liked it.

35. Mascot (Season 1, episode 2)

This entire episode is memorable for so many things, but a few of my favorites:

David is established as kind of a di/ck.

Platypus arrives and kicks all the as/s.

Quartermaster is the best.

Nerris, Harrison, and Space Kid all get little moments to show off how cute they are.

Neil and Nikki bonding.

This:

34. Quest to Sleepy Peak Peak (Season 2, episode 3)

I love watching Nerris and Harrison bicker, and Neil and Nikki fit really well into their group. It reminds me of being a kid, and of playing Dungeons & Dragons (as an adult, because I’m so cool), and of summer . . . which is a really good thing for this show. There are a lot of funny one-liners, and it’s just a good dang time.

33. Quartermaster Appreciation Day (Season 2, episode 6)

I don’t think this one is all that well-loved, but I thought it was funny. There are literally zero important plot or character moments, but it made me laugh a lot, and that’s all I need a Camp Camp episode to do.

I love QM, and the more we learn about him, the more confused and disturbed we end up being. What a fu/cking champion.

32. Arrival of the Torso Takers (Season 3 Halloween episode)

I lowkey hated this one when it came out, because I knew the Daniel stans were going to be exhausting. And they kind of were? But looking back, it’s a great way to reintroduce this motherfu/cker. He’s a lot scarier than he was the last time around -- but also less competent, which is a great way to kick him in the proverbial ba/lls -- and while I wish it had a lot more Gwen in it, it’s a clever and creative Halloween episode.

31. Operation: Charlie Tango Foxtrot (Season 3, episode 10)

Charlie . . . Tango . . . Foxtrot . . . CTF . . . OH! Capture the Flag! I never got that before. Oh, that’s neat. I love this show.

Listen, every time the writers decide to take a risk and do something bizarre and creative, I’m going to be here for it at least a little bit. An entire episode told from the POV of the Woodscouts, explaining how hard they failed in all directions? A great gag where everyone in Petrol’s story talks in grunts? The return of Jermy Fartz?! Fantastic.

30. Panicked Room (Season 4, episode 16)

Listen. I’m a sucker for my trash grandpa; anything Campbell-centric is probably going to be pretty good (except #54), because he’s just one of the most consistently funny and engaging characters. Good times are had whenever this terrible man is on the screen, and giving him a romantic backstory? A tragic romantic backstory full of mistakes and emotional damage?? One where he waited 17 YEARS for the love of his life???

We have no choice but to stan.

29. Party Pooper (Season 4, episode 15)

I’m so predictable. If you put Gwen in something, I will be happy. If you make an entire episode about how Gwen is under-appreciated and overworked and just trying to do her best despite the circumstances, I will dedicate my firstborn child to you.

Anyway, this episode is really sweet, and I liked the unexpected direction the writers took her relationship with her dad. He seems like a nice guy, they seem like they have a nice relationship, and . . . well, an episode about how hard it is to be an adult millennial hit pretty hard. Plus this was just a really pretty episode -- and not just because Gwen was in so much of it! Seriously, that night sky was a thing of beauty.

Also if you say a fuc/king word about Max and that godda/mn dog I will choke you out with your own intestines. Few things are more hilariously, annoyingly ironic than the fact that the entire fandom ignored and failed to appreciate Gwen . . . in the episode all about how everyone ignores and fails to appreciate Gwen.

28. Culture Day (Season 3 holiday episode)

Now, would it be arrogant to point out that I had the idea for a Culture/Heritage Day back in September 2018? Yes, especially since I don’t think the writers ever read fanfiction and it has literally nothing to do with this episode. Will that stop me? He/ll no it will not! I am a creature of ego! Read my stuff!

Anyway, this is a really fun look at Neil’s background, personality, and relationships. Max looking out for him is just . . . oh my god, I cannot, I’ve written like 30 of these and my brain is starting to melt, but these two are so cute. I love arrogant Neil, and I love protective Max, and I love QM and Gwen fuc/king over the Flower Scouts to save the day. Everything about this episode is lovely.

27. Cameron Campbell the Camp Campbell Camper (Season 3, episode 7)

This should not be ranked so high (even if these are all essentially tied). This is a dumb episode based on a really, really dumb premise.

But . . . I don’t know what to tell you. “Samboy Kidwell,” Max realizing he and Campbell are disturbingly similar and not liking what his future could look like, David’s “I’m not mad, I’m disappointed” face . . . this episode happens to hit all of my favorite things. It had a really good balance of heavy-handed moralizing and goofs, it was part of the most graceful lead-up into a finale the show has ever had, and I’m just all about it.

Excellent job, Samboy. Count Olaf would be proud of your disguise.

There ends the “some good sh/it” tier. We’re starting to get into the really excellent stuff now!

26. Parents' Day (Season 2, episode 12)

I know. You want this to be higher. I hear you.

Honestly I’m kind of shocked it’s this high; it’s my least favorite of the season finales so far, and I had to push past a lot of prejudice to actually rank this where I think it deserves to be, as opposed to somewhere in the like mid-40s. Mostly because it gave fuel to the raging inferno of “Max has terrible parents and David should adopt him” headcanons, which I’ve detailed my problems with extensively in the past (in a post that, statistically speaking, none of you have read).

But, trying to be objective: is this episode actually any good?

Well . . . yeah, it really is.

So much work was put into giving each of the campers families that make sense with their characters and bounce absurdly well off of them, ranging from wholesome and adorable (Nerris’s family) to quietly tragic (Harrison’s parents), and they’re all designed so well; they’re fun to look at and fun to watch interact with the kids and each other. (The only exception is Dolph’s dad, who is both kinda lame and misattributes the cause of the weird Na/zi thing because it did not come from Germany, I assure you. But things with Dolph are always a little off, and I don’t really know how you would give him a backstory that actually works with the character, so they were caught between a rock and a hard place there.)

The drama of David having to choose between the man he considers his father and the camp he considers his home is really touching, and him and Gwen choosing to take a sad camper out to get pizza instead of covering for their boss’s a/ss is such a beautiful moment for both of them that I can’t really blame the fandom for losing their mind over it. Campbell’s arrest leading into the arcs of the next two seasons was great as well, and the finale left us all with this weird sense of foreboding because we didn’t know what was going to happen next; it was the only finale that actually ended on something close to a cliffhanger, while still being satisfying enough to keep us all from melting down.

Plus, it’s funny. Carl and Candy are really funny and the idea of Neil and Nikki’s parents boning is funny in a horrible way. The joke about Quartersister is funny. It’s a good episode.

Should this be higher? Maybe, but I can’t bring myself to put it above the rest of these episodes. Again: make your own list.

25. Mind Freakers (Season 1, episode 10)

The episode that launched a thousand ships. Assuming those ships are all Harrison/Neil, anyway.

It’s hard to talk about these Season 1 episodes because they feel so classic. Like, what is there to say? You’ve all seen it a couple dozen times; I’ve seen it a couple dozen times. Harrison is a di/ck, Neil is possibly an even bigger di/ck, and magic may or may not be real. (Though spoilers for literally every season: yes, magic is definitely real.) It’s so much fun watching these two smug as/sholes snipe at each other in an almost literal playground hair-pulling way that could very easily be read as flirtation.

And the fandom did most certainly read it that way, at least for a little while.

24. Gwen Gets a Job (Season 2, episode 8)

It’s Gwen. What, was I supposed to not put it this high?

This was the first Gwen-centric episode, and it absolutely slaps. She’s pushed to the breaking point and responds by being a cold-hearted BAMF, and it got her some pretty significant hate from fans but I don’t give a fu/ck, I loved it. We got to see her all dolled up, and then we got to see her all disheveled, and both of those looks were gorgeous. David gives her a tiny fragment of the love and validation she deserves (I don’t know if this is when gwenvid started taking off -- I think it wasn’t really until “Parents’ Day,” or even Season 3 -- but I ate that s/hit up).

Also, again: job hunting post-2008. It’s a bad time, y’all. Camp Camp gets it.

23. Follow the Leader (Season 4, episode 6)

Yeah, I was kind of surprised at how high this landed, too. I guess I’m just a sucker for unlikely companionships, and these three have a great chemistry. The combination of competitiveness, sass, and reluctant admiration make their interactions a lot of fun. Their motivation of doing petty errands for Campbell for the sake of getting at the Box of Illegal Contraband is a great framework too, with high enough stakes to justify all sorts of wacky shenanigans without causing actual anxiety.

I want to see these characters forced to spend more time together. Please, RT, make that happen.

22. Escape from Camp Campbell (Season 1, episode 1)

In terms of numbers, this feels so low, but considering everything from about #45 on is ranked as at least decent, this is actually a pretty high rating. There are 21 episodes I’d call better than this, but these decisions were all pretty painful.

This introduces us to everyone! The main trio, the counselors, Mr. Campbell; we get a snapshot of the major personalities running around the camp, the major points of conflict (Max vs. David, primarily), the major building blocks of future episodes, setting, and relationships . . .

Again, I don’t know how much of my love for this episode is nostalgia -- there’s a lot of squeeing at familiar faces and gags; this is the first time David gets hit by a bus!!! -- but it was a fun and funny introduction to a series that’s ended up being so important to me, and I’m so grateful this wonderful, quirky little show with its wonderful and quirky little premiere.

Of all the episodes, I really can’t look at this one objectively. It’s too important.

21. The Fun-Raiser (Season 3, episode 1)

David and Gwen scheming is my ki/nk. They very rarely scheme together, but every single time their teamwork makes the dream work (or, more frequently, makes the dream fail horribly and have disastrous consequences) my soul flies out of my body and takes to the stars, where I write another 500 first chapters to gwenvid fanfics I’ll probably never finish.

This is a great follow-up to “Parents’ Day,” where we immediately see the consequences of the previous season finale and what happens when the one adult in the camp disappears. Mr. Campbell was a terrible adult, true, but at least he was smart enough not to steal QM’s hook. Like . . . whose plan was this? It was so bad. These two are hilariously incompetent sometimes -- often when their bad ideas are feeding off of each other, actually, a la this and “Space Camp Was a Hoax” -- and watching them frantically try and keep all their balls in the air is so great.

The ending is satisfying, too; a bit graphic, in keeping with a show that tends to keep the violence limited to periodic spurts of bloodshed 1-2 times a season and mostly pretty mild the rest of the time, but between Max stepping up and fixing everything while still being his shi/tty self to our dear dumba/ss counselors getting their dumb as/ses handed to them (deservedly so, if we’re being honest) . . . it’s such a great note to begin a new season on.

20. Journey to Spooky Island (Season 1, episode 5)

A classic.

We get to meet our spooky boy Jasper, we get to watch the comedy trio play off each other and continue to sketch out the general contours of their friendship, and we get to see the Quartermaster with a big purple dil/do for a hand. What’s not to love?

19. The Butterfinger Effect (Season 4, episode 17)

CONTROVERSIAL HOT TAKES! GET YOUR CONTROVERSIAL HOT TAKES HERE!

I’ve already gone into some pretty intense detail about why I think this one is actually really good and carries the theme of embracing change that everything about Season 4 was centered around, but none of y’all read that so here it is in short: this episode is super funny, almost all of the campers’ transformations work really well as extensions of their characters while still being strange and surprising, and the fact that Nurf creates all of these problems by trying to solve them is deliciously fun to watch in a karmic sort of way.

Or maybe it’s just because any Nurf-centric episode is going to rank pretty highly for me. That is also possible.

18. Space Camp Was a Hoax (Season 2, episode 10)

Our camp counselors being bad people: it’s my drug of choice.

We get Space Kid tripping balls in what might be one of the funniest sequences in the show, the entire camp coming together to try and pull off the stupidest, most impossible task (and kinda maybe almost nailing it???), and once again the fun of watching Gwen and David scramble to keep from getting caught in their boss’s shit/ty lies is so great. And Lindsay’s voice acting is absolutely killer, even more so than usual.

17. Jermy Fartz (Season 2, episode 4)

I get the sense this might be a somewhat controversial one.

I’ve written before about why I think this episode is a lot of fun, but it mostly boils down to two things: watching the campers try (and fail) to be nice to the most bully-able person on the entire planet, and the essential likeableness of Jermy.

No, really.

I think a lot of people were put off by Jermy’s general grossness, because . . . my god is he disgusting, but he’s also polite and good-natured, and seems totally self aware of how difficult he is to be around, without letting it make him depressed. He’s cheerful in a weirdly downbeat way that’s impossible to understand until you see him in action. He’s so matter-of-fact about his own awfulness in a way that I found entirely endearing. I don’t think I’d want him at my camp, either, but get that kid to a good dermatologist and gastroenterologist, teach him some basic hygiene and social skills, and you’ll have quite a little gentleman there.

I do however find it hilarious that apparently David got the type of tree wrong when making fun of Jermy. Not only is that a great moment for reveling in David being an as/shole, but he didn’t even have the right wood. F/ucking idiot. I love him so much.

These last ones are my favorites! (Well, duh, that’s how this whole ranking thing works.) Maybe not perfect, but just really good and with limitless rewatch value.

16. St. Campbell's Day (Season 4 holiday episode)

They Grinch’d Camp Camp. Those brilliant bast/ards, they really pulled it off.

Ignoring the fact that David is truly frightening-looking for most of the episode, this is a great bookend to Season 4, following up on the theme established in the first episode about how David is a flawed and selfish human being despite trying his best not to be.

This is another one I was surprised to find so high on the list, but the more I thought about it the more I realizes how good it is. David being a jerk is always one of my favorite storylines, and the fact that the trouble comes from him trusting Mr. Campbell too little instead of too much is a nice twist on the usual formula. Gwen coming to help him out despite a blistering hangover gave me aggressive shipping feels, yes, obviously.

Between a lot of really funny little gags like QM’s failed satanic ritual and the genuinely touching moral about the importance of spending time with the people you love, it’s just a really lovely episode that gets just the right amount of maudlin for the holiday season.

15. Jasper Dies at the End (Season 2, episode 5)

I kept switching this and “Dial M for Jasper”; it was a really difficult decision to make, figuring out where these two belonged. I think in the end, while the John Dies at the End reference was very, very good, this one loses me a little bit by being told from David’s perspective. Now, normally the more David is in an episode the more I’ll be likely to love it (see my #1 for proof of that), but his blinders when it comes to the camp and Mr. Campbell result in a really funny story, but one without the same emotional heft as hearing about what happened from Jasper’s point of view.

That doesn’t mean it’s not perfect for what it needs to be: each Jasper episode builds on the previous ones, and having the same intensity of “Dial M for Jasper,” where we learn how he died and how his relationship with David fell apart, would be weird and heavy at this point. In Season 1 we just found out he’s a ghost (and eagle-eyed viewers realized he’d been a camper with David); in Season 2 we find out how David views their friendship and time at camp; and in Season 3 we get Jasper’s perspective. It’s an absolutely wonderful raising of the stakes (for lack of a better term), but the one that packs more of an emotional punch is going to rank a bit higher than the one that’s mostly just for laughs.

That being said: there are plenty of laughs in this one. Everyone -- Griffin, Miles, Travis, the animators -- nailed this one, and it gets funnier every time I watch it.

14. Camporee (Season 1, episode 11)

AKA the episode where Forest realized she was in love with Gwen.

What a great idea for an episode, seriously. Every coming-of-age story has a talent show or a competition or a big game -- something where the kiddos can show off their improved skills and teamwork to beat their bullies or whatever. And this show has both kinds of bullies: the popular girly girls and the violent muscleheads. What a great moment to pull everyone together and show how friendship can help us accomplish anything!

Except . . . of course that’s not what happens. Of course they’re absolute garbage, and of course teamwork isn’t the answer. Gwen is the perfect foil for David here, being the anti-teamwork, anti-Camp-Campbell adult who can perfectly and effortlessly undermine David’s relentless optimism. David wants so badly for his campers to live in the same coming-of-age summer movie he did as a child, and their staunch refusal to do that leads to a really heartbreaking closer to the episode, as well as lead into the next one. Everything about this, from the challenges to the setup to Gwen shouting “we are winning this FUC/KING trophy!” is just gold.

13. David Gets Hard (Season 1, episode 9)

We have David. We have Nurf. We have Gwen. We have Max trying to be helpful in the shi/ttiest way possible.

We have all the makings of a da/mn good episode. And they deliver. Not a very emotionally intense or moving one, but so, so funny.

12. Dial M for Jasper (Season 3, episode 5)

This isn’t the fate any of us expected for Jasper, and it’s not the fate of a lot of people wanted. But godda/mn it, it worked. The constant bait-and-switch the episode keeps playing with, where you keep waiting for something really dramatic and tragic to happen . . . and then the reality is that Jasper died because Mr. Campbell was stupid and careless, and it was all just a horribly sad accident.

It’s anticlimactic, but in a way that suits the series, both as a comedic counterpoint to all the hype throughout the episode and as a way to establish that Cameron Campbell is a bad man first and foremost through selfishness and laziness, not Daniel-esque sinister evil. Jasper’s death was totally avoidable and totally Campbell’s fault, and while that’s sad, it also adds a weird sort of lightness to the episode. David didn’t do something terrible to kill his best friend, Jasper didn’t kill himself, and without having actively chosen to murder a child (well, not this time), the door remains open for fans accepting Campbell’s later pseudo-redemption. It was just an accident, and Jasper was “haunting” David to tell him that he was sorry for how their friendship ended. That’s really sweet, actually.

I think it’s the best way this reveal could’ve gone, and I’m so impressed with how they pulled it all off.

11. Into Town (Season 1, episode 8)

This might actually be the only flawless episode in the entire show. I mean, I call a lot of them flawless, and I mean that on an emotional level -- “I love this so much I cannot see anything wrong with it” -- but this one is a masterpiece of storytelling. All the technical jumbo I’m bad at, like planting and payoff and tension and all of that, is just perfect.

I feel like this is the kind of claim that needs to be backed up with a long-as/s essay full of citations and video clips and references to, like, Joseph Campbell or something, but this is my 49th entry in the list so I am not going to be doing that. Besides, I don’t think my English degree qualifies me to critique film/animation; I don’t even entirely know half the terms I’ve used to compliment this episode. Someone else please explain why this is such a good one.

10. The Quarter-Moon Convergence (Season 4, episode 5)

I’ve mentioned in other entries that the weird, surreal humor sometimes doesn’t work; it feels too much like being odd for its own sake, and sometimes gets so distracted in being surreal that it forgets to include anything funny or meaningful.

This . . . is not one of those.

Putting Harrison and QM together is a stroke of genius; the two of them are literally the most magical beings in the entire show, and using them as the conveyance for this great Lovecraftian horror-comedy was such a good idea. I don’t know if we’ll ever see these two interact in another episode -- honestly, this felt a bit like lightning in a bottle, and I have a hard time imagining what could possibly bring them together again -- but if this is the only episode we get, it is such a fantastic one.

Harrison makes a really good everyman, despite his powers; he’s just the right amount of confident and insecure to pull off that wide-eyed apprentice to QM’s grizzled wise mentor. (The fact that QM is objectively a terrible mentor is beside the point.) I still don’t entirely know what the two of them accomplished, but it feels baffling and momentous, with the perfect amount of gravity to make things extremely tense all the way through to the end.

Also, I guess God is an octopus? That’s kinda cool. I like octopuses.

9. Camp Corp. (Season 3, episode 12)

Another unpopular opinion? Oh ho ho, I am so contrary! I am Not Like Other Fans! I am the Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way, refusing to have the same opinions of all you prepz.

I know this wasn’t the most well-loved episode, but I think it did a really great job tying together story threads woven throughout Season 3: Max’s selfishness leading to him hurting other people, his growing realization that he cares about his friends and the camp itself, the parallels between him and Mr. Campbell (and the fact that they both get this redemption moment in the finale).

This is the most Max-centric season, focusing on his flaws and character growth, and they pulled it off in a really organic way that felt faithful to his character, touching without being too maudlin. The fact that his feelings about the camp are echoed in Gwen, Neil and Nikki, the other campers, and even Mr. Campbell drives home how important the camp -- and David -- are to this strange little family.

Each season, Max reluctantly becomes a better person, without changing the fundamental core of who he is. That’s a really hard putt for the writers and Michael, and I’m blown away every finale by how they so consistently nail it.

8. Time Crapsules (Season 4, episode 18)

Gwen-centric? Check.

Max learning how to be a better person while still being the bratty kid we know and love? Check.

Looks at one of the most under-appreciated character dynamics in the entire show (i.e., Max and Gwen)? Checkity check-check-check.

I don’t really have much to say about this one, which I should: it was considered a pretty serious letdown to a lot of fans, and I’m not sure how to explain why I loved it so much.

Comparing Max from “The Order of the Sparrow” to Max from this episode is wild. It’s not like 2 different characters: they’re still very obviously the same cynical, self-absorbed 10-year-old trying to survive summer camp. But he’s become a more considerate friend and decent version of that kid, and it’s great to watch. The moment where he and Gwen go too far and immediately regret snapping at each other is still painful (on my god, the VAs in this show, they’re so talented), Nikki and Neil both get nice subplots about how they’re also growing up, and the ending is fuc/king hilarious, perfectly breaking the tension from Campbell’s speech, which is both beautifully done and important to hear, especially if you’re in a period of uncomfortable transition (like, say, in your late 20s, or living through about 5 different national and global catastrophes).

And okay, I found that speech on the wiki for this episode and it made me deeply emotional, so here:

Here's the thing: you've got to take your failures and make something out of them. Take Camp Campbell for instance: a lot of poor decisions went into making this place what it is today. Sure, somewhere along the line it maybe strayed from its path, not living up to the camp it wanted to be. At some point, the camp realized that the camp would never reach the end of its path until it was ready or until it gave up. So, if the camp wanted to keep embezzling money and dealing with foreign powers, so be it! But, at some point, it didn't anymore. I never saw this coming, but I'm starting to think this camp is the best it's ever been.

If this is the last episode of Camp Camp we ever get -- and for at least a little while, it looks like it’s going to be -- I can’t think of a sweeter, funnier, and more lovely bittersweet note for this show to go out on.

7. The Lake Lilac Summer Social (Season 3, episode 6)

And again: No one was surprised.

This is the longest non-finale episode of the show, and it uses that time perfectly. Rather than having some big emotional moments and character arcs -- which are great, don’t get me wrong -- the writers use the extended time to build a series of shenanigans as complicated as Gwen’s matchmaking web, and watching her try to set up a series of dominos (with David, for once, being the responsible, level-headed one) is almost as satisfying as the catastrophic results.

Neil and Snake steal this episode, even from someone as in love with Gwen as I am, and for an episode that’s largely about making fun of shippers, there hasn’t been one that launched nearly as many ships as this. Neil/Snake? Tabii/Erin? Max/Nikki? GWENVID?! It’s all here, and I am here for it.

It was also fun to get a traditional episode setup in a very non-traditional show. I assume this means the beach and/or hot springs episode is forthcoming. (No, Pis/s Lake doesn’t count. Obviously it doesn’t count.)

6. Keep the Change (Season 4, episode 1)

Again, this is an episode I’ve said a lot about in the past -- and I was pretty uncharitable toward Season 3, which in retrospect was very unse/xy of me -- but I stand by a lot of my opinions then: this is a fu/cking great episode.

David is an as/shole, Max is an as/shole, Campbell is an as/shole. No one escapes the as/sholery. David schemes, Max catches him in the scheme, Campbell gets drunk and kind of gay . . . I’m 54 entries into this list and I don’t have much to say anymore: it’s just really good and fun and I love it.

5. Camp Loser Says What? (Season 4, episode 9)

This is another one I kind of hated when it came out, and again for fandom-related and personal-grudge reasons.

Fu/cking Daniel. That motherfu/cker. He shows up for 12 minutes and Tumblr bursts into flames. Every single time.

However, it’s really hard not to love this one. Daniel-as-Trump is a clever but subtle -- I mean, for this show’s definition of subtle -- allegory, and it’s amazing how much this slimy freak and the Woodscouts slot into it. David is a bise/xual disaster with the absolute worst taste in men, Dirty Kevin and Daniel are onscreen together for all of 2.5 seconds and the kevdan shippers lost their minds, and Xemug looks like Megamind for some weird reason.

My only minor complaint is that the ending is a bit anticlimactic, but it plays on Daniel’s stupidity and the value of teamwork, so it’s a very small nitpick in an episode that mostly works like gangbusters.

4. Cult Camp (Season 2, episode 1)

Duh. There’s a really good song and we’re introduced to a charismatic, sinister, and totally dumba/ss villain. What’s not to like?

I don’t think I even need to say anything about this episode. Season 2 started off the summer by throwing a lit firecracker directly at the viewer’s face, and ignoring the fact that we as a fandom proceeded to eat each other, it’s impossible not to get caught up in the episode’s wild energy.

And dude, that song. Fabulous. Fu/ck Daniel, but thank god he’s around to be such a prickly little pri/ck.

Now for the top 3: Literally perfect, wouldn’t change a single solitary thing.

3. After Hours (Season 4, episode 8)

I’m not sure anyone loved this episode as much as me. But this is my list, and I will put this up at the top if I want to and you cannot stop me.

It’s much easier in a lot of ways to talk about the episodes I hated than the ones I love this much. What do I say besides “literally everything about this fills me with joy and my life is better because it exists”? I don’t know. The counselors are my favorite characters, and between Gwen and QM having the weirdest bonding experience, Gwen getting to meet up with people who care about her silly fanfiction, Mr. Campbell being the trash grandpa of my dreams, David getting in way over his head . . . it’s the episode I always wanted, and they made it work so well.

Also, I just discovered that “Gwen Isn’t Your Mother So Stop Asking Her to Rinse Your Dishes” is an actual song and I am overwhelmed with delight. Here, I’m embedding it as well as linking because it’s so good:

youtube

God. This show. What the fu/ck even is up with this amazing, weird-as/s show.

2. The Order of the Sparrow (Season 1, episode 12)

Duh.

The entire first season is a great time (except “Reigny Day”), but it’s a pretty low-stakes kind of great time. There isn’t much in terms of emotional depth until the very end of “Camporee,” despite some hints at darker themes in one-off jokes and quick asides, so this episode comes a bit out of left field, tonally speaking.

But that’s not a bug, it’s a feature; if the show had been this overtly emotional from the outset, this finale wouldn’t hit as hard, and the rest of the season wouldn’t be as funny.

This manages to serve as a capstone to the conflict of the first season, building on episodes like “Into Town” and “Escape from Camp Campbell” in a way that feels totally natural for both David and Max’s characters while revealing new sides of them. It works because it’s so unexpected, but it doesn’t come across as incongruous with their personalities. It’s the first and only time David swears in all 4 seasons, and that line -- I don’t even need to say it, you know exactly what I’m talking about -- still gives me chills.

Also, Gwen sings the camp theme song. Impossible not to cherish.

1. The Forest (Season 4, episode 12)

I’m not sure if this one is a surprise or not. It might be the obvious first place, or it might be a bit of an oddball for some people.

I had a really hard time choosing between this and “The Order of the Sparrow”; I switched their places half a dozen times, and the difference in quality between the two is razor-thin. I think part of that is because it accomplishes a lot of what “Order of the Sparrow” does: puts David in a situation where he’s pushed to his absolute emotional and physical capacity, crushes every shred of hope he has left, and sees what he’s actually made of when you strip everything away. It’s much more dramatic this time around, but it’s the same basic concept.

And just like in the Season 1 finale, what we see is a man who’s determined to do good even when he isn’t rewarded for it, even when he’s actively punished for it. Who wants to love nature, and life, and make the world a better place -- despite his faults, his selfishness and thoughtlessness and anger, David proves that he is fundamentally kind. He’s not nearly as deludedly optimistic as he seems; he just refuses to stop trying.

Because somebody fuc/king has to.

I’ll admit, some of what puts this one in first place is that I’m a sucker for whump, and David really goes through the ringer. However, I also think it’s important to acknowledge the risk Joe Nicolosi took with writing this episode: it’s all centered around a single character, it’s darker and more viscerally bloody than any other episode in the show’s history, the art is focused on these grand sweeping backgrounds that must’ve taken forever to paint, and there’s very little talking in a show that runs 99% on clever dialogue. This could have so easily backfired -- and for some fans it did -- but it was brave and beautiful and breathtaking.

I’ve actually only watched this in full once. It’s really hard to get through; it’s just so intense and even disturbing. But if there’s one episode I'll remember for the rest of my life, even when I’m 80 years old and haven’t seen the show in years, it’ll be “The Forest.”

It’s funny how such a sharp departure from the format and style of the rest of the show somehow manages to perfectly capture the heart of it. Talk about a fuc/king achievement.

So what have we learned?

I don’t entirely know what the purpose of this whole exercise was. I think it was mostly to get myself a nice Camp Camp fix that came from something other than slogging through 20 different fanfic WIPs, and to remind myself of what a strange and fun ride the last 4 summers have been.

I also wanted to take a moment to acknowledge what Camp Camp means to me. This show has been hugely important to me on a personal level: I met two of my best friends through this fandom, and I’ve never been more connected to a community or readers than I have with CC. I know I bi/tch about this fandom a lot, but it’s a big extended internet family, and I’m so happy to be a part of it. Going through all these episodes, getting the chance to ramble about the things I liked and the things I didn’t, was a great way to reconnect with a series and community that I love.

So . . . what have we learned?

1. Season 4 was all over the place.

Some of this has to be due to the sheer volume of episodes, but when I sat down and organized everything into tiers:

There isn’t a single category Season 4 doesn’t have at least one episode in. I was surprised to see how high a lot of them ended up; it really was the best and worst of the show so far.

For the fun of it, I decided to give a number to each placement -- 60 points for the #1 episode, 59 for #2, etc. -- and see how each season broke down. Because that’s that kind of thing I think is worthwhile, apparently. And . . .

2. Seasons 1 and 4 are really good, actually.

Well, I don’t think anyone’s surprised to see how well Season 1 stacked up; it was amazing. But I was surprised to see how much I ended up enjoying Seasons 3 and 4, when if you’d asked me before this little project, I would’ve said they were the most underwhelming. Maybe I messed up the numbers a bit -- I’m no mathmagician -- but not only are they all really close, but Season 4 was one of my favorites.

3. This entire show is really good, actually.

One thing that really struck me when I put it all together visually is how most of the episodes sit in the “good,” “really good,” or “amazing” categories. The amount of episodes that are memorable, fun, and/or emotionally resonant is crazy. I don’t now how many other tiny cult-hit web series can say the same, honestly, and all of the writers, animators, directors/producers/other people whose jobs I don’t really understand, and voice actors should be commended for their outstanding talent and hard work.

4. Thank you, Camp Camp.

It was a real pleasure to relive all of these episodes again and think about what they meant to me. It won’t be the last time I sit down and watch this show -- and it certainly won’t be the end of my being a shrieking fangirl over it -- but with this break, where we have to get through a blazing, extremely difficult summer without a new season to fawn over, it’s nice to stop and appreciate what a precious gem of a show this is.

I hope everyone involved with Rooster Teeth is taking a much-deserved rest and prioritizing their health and well-being. Thank you for creating something truly special, and I can’t wait to see what happens next.

#campcamp #camp camp roosterteeth #thank you RT Animation for giving me my life these past 4 years #cc david #cc max #cc gwen #i'm not tagging all the characters #campcamp masterpost #i really hope this doesn't get hidden from the tags but #guys this was a super intense labor of love please check it out #but also reading it is also a super intense labor so i get it if you don't XD

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alatismeni-theitsa · 5 years ago

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answering anti LO anon asks:

(1) Correct me if I’m wrong here, but aren’t the only nymphs who die in mythology connected to cut down trees? Because I’ve never once seen a myth about flower nymphs dying because of picked flowers. I don’t know, just seems like another case of LO making up mythology with no logic or backing and thinking its clever or original. Also didn’t Persephone say she hated the nymphs anyway in comic?? Why would she care if they died?? She said she was going to kill them anyway for not leaving her alone ...

(2) Went thru some lastest eps of LO and Persephone still looks like a baby-faced sex doll with awful hair and Hades deadass looking like a "sexy" redesign of the Disney version. Is that the best she can come up with lol. i thought she was a professional illustrator, isn't character design one of the first things they teach you in illustration courses?

(3) Apparently LO was a trending topic (thanks to the fastpassers flooding their own tag) so i went through it & does anyone have any deep thoughts? It's all the same exact basic reactions. And the panels they post! I know HxP is a popular ship, but the art is so bad & rushed now, it's actually sad. She put so much effort into an onscreen R*PE SCENE but the big romantic moments and "epic" twists are amateurish at best. The characters barely stand out from the backgrounds! There's not even line work!

(4) I feel like this "dark take" (god it's so badly drawn and so stupid because it makes her a villain to anyone NOT wanting to have sex with her) of LO Persephone would have been more impactful if we didn't already know she killed people. Smythe keeps putting in spoiling panels (Her killing people, her as Queen, etc) well before it happens that it just loses impact. Sometimes it's better to naturally build up to a shocking moment versus just getting a cool panel or cliffhanger.

(5) "Murderous Persephone" would be a fine of a take if it was used to comment on the cruelty of the gods and how even they can go too far (Like Zeus showing regret during the Trojan War) and even showing her as WRONG in her actions, because even at the end of the day the gods still had to look over humanity and she didn't. LO doesn't want that though, they'll butcher Persephone to be completely awful and unjustified just as a cheap "badass" moment instead of saying she's being downright evil.

____________________________________________________________

(1) Tbh I don’t know much about deaths of Nymphs. However Greeks were never against the practice of picking flowers. If picking flowers killed nymphs then I imagine we wouldn’t do it traditionally and we would have cautionary tales for that. I am not sure if cutting down trees killed them either. It doesn’t make sense when your culture relays on wood that you would make it a negative thing to cut trees. Now, if you cut down a sacred tree (where the nymph lives or if she is the embodiment of the tree) then yeah that would be bad. If you have found sources on that I would love to see them, since I don’t know much on the matter. But for the flower thing I am 99% certain Smythe took that out of her ass.

(2)+(3) I guess she keeps the style because it’s what brought her fame. Many people like it so it doesn’t make sense to change it. But I agree, the quality is low and I would love to see something better, especially now that she can afford helpers and taking breaks. Plus, don’t expect anything deep from this comic. It deals with serious issues but not in a serious way...

(4) I think she put those spoiling panels there as a teasing effect and, for me, it kinda worked. Maybe it makes people anticipate learning about the past and the future of Persephone. She kept that “dark secret“ for many episodes so the readers keep reading. Obviously, it didn’t work for everyone...

(5) True. It seems she can’t make up her mind about the morality of the gods. She wants them to be appealing to 21st century teenagers so the narrative adopted the human morality. So, Persephone did something really “evil“ according to human standards and the narrative should deal with it that way. If the narrative pushes the “look how badass Persephone is“ then... this morality doesn’t make sense. We are expected to judge Persephone but then... not judge her?

#anti lo #answered

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coolmarriagerecords · 4 years ago

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Johan Kugelberg's Top 100 DIY Singles

From Ugly Things via http://www.hyped2death.com/Kugelberg100.html

1. The Desperate Bicycles -The Medium Was Tedium (Refill Records, 1977 UK) The Desperate Bicycles are the yardstick for this obscurist sub genre. No one did it as easy or as cheap as them. Of the slew of unfathomable brilliant pop 45's, The Medium Was Tedium is the apex: The enthusiasm, anger and joy de vivre that oozes from the tracks contained within has me reaching for Village Green-Kinks and first album Cramps to describe the passion. For drunken, leftist dorm-room intellectuals to describe the faith and for Dez/Chavo-era Black Flag to describe the power ? notwithstanding that the recordings themselves are of 4-track bedroom shut-in lo-fi jangle. Too bad the band don't want the material re-released but a good thing indeed that the records barely rate at all in the collector scum price guide pantheon.

2. Beyond The Implode -Last Thoughts EP (Diverse Records UK 1979) Barrett/early-Floyd psych as good (or better) than any Soft Boys, obscurist strum & drang way more passionate than any Flying Nun band I've heard and Inflammable vocals of the purest Oxbridge confusion. The Spacemen 3 never did anything to match this record. [Messthetics #6]

3. V/A -Weird Noise EP (Fuck Off Records UK 1980) The legend doesn't start here, but at least this isn't a cassette-only release in an edition of 50 copies or so like the majority of the Fuck Off Records oeuvre. This lines up the finest advocates of tuneless bashing within the UK late 70's underground: The 012, Danny and the Dressmakers, the Instant Automatons, The Door and the Window and finally the Sell Outs who seem to be Danny and the Dressmakers under a different moniker. The cut "Please Don't Make Another Bass Guitar Mr. Rickenbacker" showcases one of the odder qualities popular music can have: The ability to disorientate the listener. "Simply the very best in bad music" indeed! [Danny...Messthetics Greatest Hits]

4. Desperate Bicycles ? New Cross, New Cross (Refill Records, UK 1978) The godlike power of "I Make The Product" or "Advice On Arrest" (two of the songs on this six song EP) deliver a little salvation of sorts ? the Desperate Bicycles make you believe, make you feel a sense of belonging. Music does that when it is this good. 5.Slugfuckers ? Three Feet Behind Glass EP (No label Australia 1979) Invoke the god Nyarlathotep they do, cover Manson-songs w/o ever having heard him they do, shmear on the middle class art school elitism thick they do. This is an extreme record; noisier and more abrasive than most first generation industrial stuff, a hell of a lot more punk than, say, the Lewd and intelligent in a scary, vicious bullying kind of way. A blazing, hard record at the same time as everything is slightly out of tune, kind of inept and sorta shoddy sounding.

6. Popes -Knup In Your Eye (Vatican Records. UK 1980) This appeared on the worldwide punk list a few issues ago, and educated guesses can be made for this appearing on any other lists I might do in the future. Not only is the record the cats pajamas as far as relentless art school mirth goes (Derek & Clive go through puberty, again!) but the throb and spark of the band makes for repeated play. And then we have to tag on the swollen nostalgia of my friend buying the only copy at the Rough trade shop in 1980 leaving me with none until Bill Forsyth digs one up for me in his back room, oh yeah, and one for Geoffrey too.

7. The Flak -EP (Northern Records UK 1980 (?)) Starts with a depressed "why am I here" poem and moves straight along into "Knocking on Heaven's Door" done dorm-angst-diy-style. This is followed by what sounds like the band attempting a Joy Division-style song the first time they pick up musical instruments. Completely inept, utterly charming and brilliant indeed. Top shelf genre defining DIY.

8. Fatal Microbes -Beautiful Pictures (Small Wonder, UK 1979) Certainly the best record with Honey Bane on it. Charming, relentless punk-crazed homemade guitar crunch. The window of opportunity of the UK underground musicscene in the late 70's is clearly demonstrated here: I doubt the Fatal Microbes stupendous teen energy could have been nurtured in the world of merchandising deals and first-look demo A&R we live in today.

9. The Silver -Do You Wanna Dance (Black Label Finland 1980) The Silver -No More Grease (Black Label Finland 1979) A riddle wrapped inside an enigma etc. The band appears to be around 12 ? 13 years old. They hail from Finland where the trail grew cold a long long time ago. Maybe upon the release of the record. Pussy Galore without post-modern baggage. "Love Theme from the Snails" as performed by SPK. 12 year olds virtually destroying a recording studio captured on tape, not once but four times.

10. Instant Automatons -Peter Paints His Fence EP (Deleted Records UK 1980) More Fuck Off/Street Level-related sublime nonsense. The battle call is the track "People Laugh At Me Cuz I Like Weird Music" which states: "I was at a pub the other night, when a bunch of mods came in, they eyed me up, then they asked me: Hey man what's your scene? Are you a hippie a mod or a punk? Got a scooter or a motorbike? I can't understand why they burst out laughing when I told them the music I like, because: People Laugh At Me Cuz I Like Weird Music People just don't understand Why pay six pounds for an album when you can, listen to a weird noise band for free I had a girlfriend named Josephine, she liked Abba and the Bee Gees. She thought music was about lawyers and accountants, percentages and legal fees. Just the other night we stayed up late, playing records til half past ten, then I played the Danny and the Dressmakers tape and I never saw Josephine again, because: People Laugh At Me Cuz I Like Weird Music People just don't understand Why pay six pounds for an album when you can, listen to a weird noise band for free" The gospel, folks. From God's mouth to your ear via the Instant Automatons. [Instant Automatons 'Another Wasted Sunday Afternon' CD]

11. Sir Alick and the Phraser -In Search of the Perfect Baby (Black Noise UK 1980) As Chuck Warner put it: They wrote beautiful pop songs then destroyed them. More Homosexuals pseudonymous mystique. The intelligent reader who followed our previous musings on this band and their universe know how much we love them and how much they perpetually pull our collective leg. No straight-ahead answers in this lifetime which is fine ? fine as far as record collecting is concerned, fine as far as lifemanship is concerned.[The Homosexuals -Astral Glamour 3CD]

12. The Four Plugs -Biking Girl (Disposable Records UK 1979) The subtle charm of marginal culture: Truly marginal culture where 1000 singles were pressed more than 22 years ago. How many got lost? How many are never being played? How many are stored in a box in the attic? How many are being played repeatedly on turntables that cost ten times as much as the recording and pressing of this given 45? "She used to be my biking partner ? she used to be my biking girl. We used to go for rides in the country side". A true punk rock/diy statement issued by the Damaged Goods people, who knew their Chesterton and Thomas Browne.

13. The Evening Outs -Channel (Refill Records UK 1980) Super-fierce skronk from a pissed-off pseudonymous Desperate Bicycles. Puts that no wave stuff to shame, really.

14. Puritan Guitars -100 Pounds in 15 Minutes (Riverside Records UK 1980) How much it cost to make the record and how long it took. Genius sturm und sturm und sturm und drang clank from a seriously inspired one chord wonder.[Messthetics Greatest Hits and Messthetics #104]

15. The Flying Brix -EP (Modello Records UK 1980) So subtle it can barely be heard: A band consisting of Wally's and Erberts, with the odd dead-end yob or two. This record could've been released by Illegal, Fuck Off or fit in on Carry On Oi. It could also have been performed on an episode of Noddy or by Flanagan & Allen. Ur-English music, this.[Messthetics #104]

16. Shrinking Men/Beevers -Hazards in the Home EP (Pop Records UK 1981) The Beevers present a Guthrie-esque talking blues here, except that it isn't a blues, but a charming DIY-shuffle, and that Woody Guthrie as far as I know never sang about the plight and blight of the office boy. The Shrinking Men in turn showcase an angry, loutish anti-army rant that Phil Ochs would've been pretty proud of I think. And there you have it: The folk music connection rears its uncombed head. [Beevers -Messthetics #6]

17. Handgrenades -Demo To London (Phonographics (?) USA 1980 (?)) Coulda fooled me ? Excellent primitive punk/chug/diy from Noo Yak City! Who woulda thunk? Somewhere between "Pink Flag" and Fuck Off Records.

18. Homosexuals -You Are Not Moving The Way You Are Supposed To (Black Noise UK 1980 (?)) An untouchable band, and the lack of a retrospective isn't much of a crime in this house (I have lots of their records snicker snicker snicker) but in other people's houses it sure is. As if Gang of Four would've been any good, as if Wire would've immersed themselves in dub, as if indeed. Parallel universe chart toppers indeed. We all know that there is at least one world out there in the ultra-cosmos where the proverbial kids are kicking these jams daily. A truly inspired and inspiring record..[The Homosexuals -Astral Glamour 3CD]

19. Cindy and the Barbi Dolls -Press The Shutter EP (A Not Major Production UK 1980) Dorm angst at its very best. Dark, brooding overtly romantic without gothing it up, these jams have the same lurking power as the pre-Joy Division Warsaw EP or the spookier first line up Soft Boys tracks. A possible sister band to Beyond the Implode in the sense that they play a curiously British form of psychedelic music in the midst of the DIY lack of musical chops. This Cornwall band were seemingly very hip to musical peers, thanking the Desperate Bicycles, the Mekons and Ralph and the Ponytails on the sleeve. There are musical (and one lyrical) nod to the Kinks "Village Green Preservation Society" as well. A very good thing. [Messthetics #7]

20. Versatile Newts -Newtrition (Shanghai Records UK 1980) If this record hadn't existed we would've had to invent it: The marriage/blend of the Swell Maps, This Heat and the TV Personalities. In equal chunks with no lumps. Gadzooks! [Messthetics #103]

21. Pink Dirt -Hey Sir (No label Norway 1979) As far as inept, crazed joi de vivre goes ? Here's the acme. I've written this one up before and will do it again. While this is obviously a straight-ahead angry punk rock band, the abandon and enthusiasm of this record could raise the dead. An angry rant against organized religion ("I have this to say tonight ? never, never get involved with christianity!") howled in a barely English Johnny Rotten-imitation by some Norwegian genius backed by shitrock more primitive than the first Endless Boogie rehearsal. There is no sleeve, no labels, just the legend "Pink Dirt Hey Sir/Hooker" scrawled in magic marker. Who were these gods and why did they walk among us? Please email me if you know anything about the people behind this stunning art experience.

22. Scrotum Poles -Revelation EP (One Tone Records Scotland 1980) Helicopter Honeymoon is going to be played at least three record collector funerals I know of, not including mine. The mighty, mighty Scrotum Poles, proudly proclaiming "DIY! We love the TV Personalities" on the shoddy, xeroxed sleeve. Their website (http://home.switchboard.com/hornstreet) is highly recommended, though we're hesitant to vouch for its complete veracity. Here's how they tell it: "'Pick the Cats Eyes Out' featured lyrics found on the back of a set list by one of the first Dundee punk bands, Bread Poultice and the Running Sores..." [Somebody please send us a demo tape!] "Helicopter Honeymoon," meanwhile, came from a headline "in the Sunday Post." What we should add for American fans is that "cats eyes" are what Brits (and Scots) call those little orange reflectors embedded in highway pavement: "Cats Eyes Out Ahead" used to be a common roadside sign. [Messthetics Greatest Hits and Messthetics #105]

23. File Under Pop -Corrugate (Rough Trade UK 1979 (?)) Godlike DIY power. Primitive grunting, out of tune skeletal instrumentation and noises recorded at Heathrow. I know a guy with an extra copy who'll swap it for Butchy Butch and the Butch Butchers.

24. Nancy Sesay and the Melodaires -C'est Fab (It's War Boys UK 1981 (?)) Un-musical, un-punk and possibly unpleasant music hall-esque skronk/DIY by the godlike Homosexuals using one of their myriad of pseudonyms. And whence you can't imagine the doofus art wank getting any more unlistenable, they spin on a dime and throw in a beautiful chorus sitting on top of a backwardsy funky drummer beat. I am, as per usual, in awe. Shall I hook some enterprising young bootlegger up with a CDR of all their stuff?

25. Performing Ferret Band -Brow-Beaten (Dead Hippy Records UK 1981) Deeply moving primitive musical fumble from this rare 45 by the masters behind the in my mind most seminal LP to come out of DIY. The eponymous Performing Ferret Band LP, which features jaw-droppers such as "Plastic Macho Man", "Fizzly Drinks" or "Great Duos Of Our Time". Fantastic over-enthusiastic juvenilia of an almost supernatural beauty. The Performing Ferrets - no one told us CD (Messthetics #216)

26. Different Eyes/Royston - Shish EP (Tuzmadoner Records UK 1979) One of the two masterpieces released on the Tuzmadoner label (the other being a 12" comp entitled, uh, "folk music" bringing up more parallels to skiffle that we should probably choose to ignore). Royston are like Flanagan & Allen fronting the world's greatest shit rock band. Different Eyes sound more lethargic than anyone else I've heard I think, and I used to work for Pavement's label. Simon Gilham from either Royston or the 'Eyes later played in Colin Newman's solo band. [Royston -Messthetics Greatest Hits and #1; Different I's -Messthetics #101 (plus their even better track from Folk Music)]

27. Homosexuals -Hearts In Exile (Black Noise UK 1978) Words fail me. As far as beauty goes, this is like Mozart or Shirley Collins. Probably their greatest moment. Somewhere along the lines of Brill Building and traditional UK folk and the Upsetters and ESP Records all at once in perfect harmony. A milestone, I think, and a record that I'd place in a timecapsule of 20th century folk art.[The Homosexuals -Astral Glamour 3CD]

28. Andrew Klimek -Felt Hammer (Mustard Records USA 1979) The guitar break alone sends this one soaring over the sky scrapers. Has that patented and most beautiful basement 4-track sound down pat even though I get more and more convinced that all those legendary Cleveland bands all were record collector rock of the umpteenth degree. Extraordinarily self-aware, sly and with meticulously thought out records, this one being no exception. The pompous liner notes on the sleeve of the 45 proves me right. You got to be some kind of Apples in Stereo-type shmuck to brag on a record sleeve that you put the bass guitar through a ring modulator.

29. Mekons -Never Been In A Riot (Fast Records UK 1978) Way before they became icky hippy-punk icons for aging counter culture types across the world they released a couple of singles of gorgeous nihilist slop. This is the first, and the funniest and the noisiest.

30. Jelly Babies -De Nada EP (No label name UK 1981) Simply heaven. A clumsy speed-chug with lyrics about a day of roller-skating and lovely pre-pubescent boozy backing vocals. Genius. Extra-tinny sound, extra passionate execution. I've quoted this portion of the notes on the (shoddy xerox, natch) sleeve: "Recorded at Dirt Cheap Studios, the best studios in the whole wide world by Grant Showbiz, the most silly person in the whole wide world, who steals your food and has a nice red guitar with a super tremelo arm which somebody gave him." Like Blake, the words transcend space, time and mortality. You need this record. Crunchy granola collectors should also note that I have personally seen at least five different (shoddy xerox) picture sleeves for this record where the priority can be determined with relative accuracy using the carbon 14 method. [one from the EP is coming on London v.III: another song from the EP demos appears on Messthetics Greatest HISS (Messthetics #110)

31. Thin Yoghurts -Girl On the Bus (Lowther Street Runner Records UK 1980) More sing-a-longa-slop-charm. You can take the limey out of the music hall but you can't Cute, touching and romantic lyrics about lusting over some tasty lassie on the bus to the kippers factory. They did this record as well as a cassette, which is a hundred bucks in your sweaty palm, if you send it to me. [Messthetics Greatest Hits]

32. Lucky Pierre -This Could Be The Night (No label USA 1984 (?)) Scuzzy, phenomenal art-rant by some Ohio Bowie-boy who'd re-record these musical chairs of Chain Gang, Klaus Nomi and cocaine freebase ten years later for Trent Reznor's label adding a "industrial dance beat" to the mess and changing the band name to Prick. Supposedly (some record-log-pincher told me) there were only 50 copies pressed for Lucky Pierre to use as record deal bait (also the reason that the lyrics are etched on the flip together with a ten second excerpt of the song). Well, I guess it worked. I seem to recall seeing a video for the re-recorded version on MTV during ol' Pierre's 15 seconds in the spotlight. The awe-inspiring power of this record remains tho'.

33. Skabb -78 EP (Mistlur Sweden 1978) Track 2 side one is jaw-dropping Opus-style DIY-crunch punk with Kriminella Gitarrer-guitar breaks. I can't believe this isn't a hotly pursued record by herd-following punk rock turd-swallowers round the globe. Fantastic slop-o-rama-lama-fa-fa-fa production too.

34. V/A -Angst In My Pants double EP (Street Level UK 1979) Imagine how good the previous 33 records on this list are, as I guarantee by risk of punishment of rock writer hyperbole, that this is doubtlessly one of the finest records I've ever heard, and the second greatest compilation in the history of rock! How can I say this wonders Rutger the Punk from his bedroom in Krakow ? Well the proof is in the pudding: Not only does the record include some of the finest recorded moments by the legendary Instant Automatons (who unknowingly channel the Monks!), 012 and the Door and the Window, but furthermore a rare vinyl appearance by the Digital Dinosaurs, heralded by me, Mario and Geoffrey in that most smug sort of way as unheralded gods of music! If that ain't enough you get some fine TVP-related spurts from the Missing Persons and extremely do it yourself DIY frenzy from the Midnight Circus. Who in "Silicone Baby" and "Hedonist Jive" have out-poignanted a tow-truck full of Aimee Mann's and Michelle Shocked's edgy humanity and funny as shit to boot. [Digital Dinsaurs and Instant Automatons are on Messthetics Greatest Hits: Midnight Circus have their own CD...And there's more on Deleted/Street Level at the Instant Automatons website]

35. Pleemobielz -Dagenlang Balen (Kamikaze Records Holland 1981) More sociological sloganeering a la Midnight Circus here: Dagenlang Balen which needlessly translates as "fuck all day" roars through the speakers with all the might of a bunch of over-testosteroned 16 year old virgins singing about what they think it'll be like to have sex some day. Tinniest sound in history. When a copy finally showed up on my doorstep after the fucking (literally!) record had spent a solid 10 years on my want list my expectations were quite low since anyone I had talked to who had heard the record all stated that it was weak/a waste of time etc. Well: It being a want list staple has more to do with the scarcity of the disc than it being a desirable punk rock record. However: It is an extremely desirable record if frenzied DIY bliss is your chosen poison.

36. Just Urbain -Guns & Guitars (No label Australia 1979) Another amazing DIY record from Australia, this one definitely sports a spiritual kinship with SPK, the Slugfuckers, the first Thought Criminals record, and those Systematics and Tactics records I need to find. Very dark, scuzzy art-damaged DIY that (a la Cabaret Voltaire or early SPK) is well aware of the fine krautrock musics coming out of Germany on Ohr or Sky a few years previously. The proto punk of say Neu or Cosmic Jokers is here handled with poisonous skronky passion.

37. The Gags -Sex Ist Schau (Leg Auf Records Germany 1981) And then one has to simply wonder if the belly laughs generated by this piece of vinyl have racist connotations: How much are we allowed to laugh at the Germans? This might be the stiffest record I've heard. The vocals lyrical bark manages to reanimate Basil Fawlty's classic performance in the "Germans" episode as well as the Sprockets. The jams are crazed. Stiff, yes, but crazed.

38. Desperate Bicycles -Smokescreen (Refill Records UK 1977) Their debut, more aggressive than a lot of the other classics and maybe it was the year. This is the 45 that launched hundreds of others: Two songs on one side to save mastering costs, the cheapest packaging, music that had to be documented, and it didn't matter if it was done in the cheapest and easiest way imaginable. [Messthetics #8]

39. Butter Utter -Jävlarnas Jul (Leonid Breznjev Records Swe 1977) Took me ages to find this one. Extremely inept, Shaggs-like fumble with a certain Je Ne Sais Qui of punk rock aggression. A lot of Killed by Death-types paid a lot of moola for this one, that some guy hyped to the moon in a Boston straight-edge fanzine back in the 80's. Only truly "punk" in the musical disaster sense of the word.

40. Cut-Outs -DIY (EMI UK 1979) Great novelty pop monster complete with carpentry noises. Possibly not a DIY record at all, but since the genre is made up by people like me this is a DIY record cuz I sez so. [NOT on Messthetics #7]

41. Massmedia ? EP (Massproduktion Swe 1979) Debut sloppiness from future KBD mainstays. There is no discernable musical ability to be found on this record and yet they play and play and play. The energy level is however awe-inspiring.

42. Dagens Ungdom -EP (Mistlur Swe 1980) Having an art school wank with Dagens Ungdom. Brilliant faux-DIY released on one of the major noo wave era indie labels of Sweden, home of Ebba Gron. All songs have titles nabbed from Kafka books, lyrics are more adjective heavy than a tub full o' Morrisey and the music is flawless DIY stumble n' fumble.

43. The Discounts -Selling Records (Original Records UK 1980) Blank 1000-yard stare DIY novelty straight out of High Fidelity. The lyric is a monologue as by a bored-to-tears record store clerk. The jams are sub-sub-sub-Blockheads DIY stumble. Extremely amusing.

44. Grinder Wickford's So Boring -EP (Wax Records UK 1979) Forget punk rock, bring in hick-rock! The aliases of the band read: "Dav-Id, Si-Kic, Terry-Ball, Stu-Pid and Holy-Grail"!. Three band members have moustaches! The singer is wearing a Rocky Horror t-shirt! The a-side is a "humorous" ditty about the acne problem of Spiderman, reflecting the sleeve front depicting some fool in a Spiderman costume driving a tractor, The b-side is an anti-fuzzy dice song. Genius. It is obvious to me that Wickford wasn't boring at all as long as you hung out with the bold gents of Grinder. The songs range from primitive clunky riff-rock to DIY jangle of the highest order. Messthetics #101

45. Psykik Volts -Totally Useless (Ellie Jay Records UK 1979) More Music Hall-punk DIY genius. The spirit of Vivian Stanshall is looming large; as is the empty pint glasses littering the room as this 45 is stuck on repeat. All together now: "It's to-tal-ly useless"!! The sleeve bears the legend: "Side A: recorded in a sock, Side B: recorded in a morgue. May god bless vocalist and songwriter Victor Vendetta. Now pardon me while I go to the corner and cry.

46. Raisinets -More Fun To Play Than To Listen To (Fun-Ethic Records USA 1979) Fantastic record-collector hippie-punk a la Gizmos/Afrika Korps/Half Japanese. Primitive guitar duets complete with questionable production values and mucho muchacho helpings of pure static. Great post-arrest pre-OD lyrics making fun of Sid too.

47. Dag Vag -Dimma (Ball Records Swe 1978) Two years after this record was released, Dag Vag were playing new wave-scented white-boy reggae to sell-out crowds all over Sweden. This, however, is a one-man band bedroom project by a Träd Gräs & Stenar roadie who had discovered punk rock and the DIY scene. Beautiful dark/sinister home studio atmospherics, killer fuzz guitar and demented lyrics about psychiatric care and drug experiences. A great record. And by all means: Don't buy any other Dag Vag records after you've obtained this one.

48. I Jog & the Tracksuits - Redbox (Tyger Label UK 1978) More lost artform unique stumble-rumble from the UK. Sounds like it was recorded under water this one. A petty miracle of a pop tune with a sublime lyric about waiting for the bus. Gotta bless em for the stamina it takes to get a record out: Recording, Mixing, Mastering, Designing, Printing, Approving, Distributing, Balancing. All to get a little song about missing the bus heard by me 22 years later.

49. Injections -Prison Walls (Radioactive Records USA 1980) This has always been an extremely desired and expensive record in KBD/Japanese Tasty/Moustache circles, and it doubtlessly deserves its inflated price tag even though we aren't talking chainsaw-buzz punk rock per se here.

50. Devils Hole Gang -Free The People (Slow Burning Fuse Records UK 1979) Huge moustaches, huge choruses, and a record that sounds like it was recorded inside one of those Moroccan hotel showers that basically consist of a huge tube of aluminum siding. My pretentious nature is such that I feel forced to unleash the folk art metaphor for this again. If your friendly neighborhood rare record dealer charges you a couple of C-notes for this and you feel like your being had for big G's by the sleaze, then remember that you are investing in art, not buying a record!!

51. Funboy Five -Life After Death (Cool-Cat Daddy-O Records UK 1980) A pure pop record indeed, but where pricey production values would've turned this into a memorable Stiff Records 45, the band's lack of bucks and resulting throwaway/enthusiasm production and energy has created a masterpiece. Both sides are stalwarts for a neighborhood sing-song or a rousing music hall chorus. Punk rock music hall: A genre waiting to happen again! [Messthetics #101]

52. How To Get Rich In Rotterdam - Dapper Dan (Vormgeving Rotterdam Records Netherlands 1981) Brilliant, plodding art-slop that reeks of inside jokedom. This record is a reason unto itself to pay ebay prices for vintage drum machines.

53. Come -Come Sunday (Come Organization UK 1979) Before William Bennett became the Benny Hill of industrial noise, his band Whitehouse were called Come and released a single and an album which both are quite lovely homemade art-dirge crankiness, a friendly psychedelic kind of crankiness indeed.

54. The Riotous Brothers -Vicki's Dancing (Riotous Records 1980) How all these disparate bands came up with a sound this cohesive is a mystery to me. Any of the hints handed to us through fanzines and interviews only mess things up further: Yes, anyone could form a band, make a record, start a record label indeed. Where it gets weird is why so many of them harbor a similar tinny guitar sound, cardboard-y drums, messy synths, inept recording techniques, smart-assed lefty lyrics and nasal singing tone. This was not a movement. It was just a bunch of stuff that happened. That's all. This record has the beautiful simplicity of a Shaker chair or a Maine seafood soup. The swanky speedpunk of "Operation Zero" or the plink-a plunk-a guitar solo on "Emotional Cripple" will some day have their own wing at the Victoria and Albert museum. Make my art primitive!

55. Partizans -Goods (A-Noyz Records UK 1980) Chain Gang's retarded English cousins. Ace!!

56. Amor Fati -Economics 100 (Yuck/Flesh Records USA 1984 (?) Very angry anti-r&r/anti-big-business slightly tongue in cheek rant that shows spiritual kinship to "Rat City" by the Art Attacks. Vertical Slit/V-3. The odd blend of wanting in, wanting to play the game and wanting to stay the fuck away that is symptomatic for a lot of Ohio underground musicians (Shepard, Hummel, House etc.)

57. Desperate Bicycles -Skill (Refill Records UK 1978) Blazing DIY-shuffle and unmistakenly Bicycles. More pro production which has this one slip further down the list. Still godlike though.

58. Sarah Coffman -Titta Jag Ar Död (Konkurrenz Rekårdz Sweden 1980) Excellent primitive shit-rock by band from my hometown!

59. Hornsey At War -Deadbeat Revival EP (War Product UK 1979) Extremely amusing ultra-sloppy DIY. No discernable production values, sound-as-filtered-through-ground-beef, emotionally charged out-of-tune vocals, crackly guitar (broken cable?) and a true aura of dead end yobs (and jobs) instead of the more common middle class art school vibe as prevailing on most DIY records. Hornsey At War are complaining about English radio too: "They won't play this record on the radio because it poses a threat!" Here tis again: That charming blend of hubris and defeatist that seems to penetrate the psyches of most people involved in underground music and/or collectors of it.

60. Take It -How It Is (Fresh Hold UK 1979) Stunning out of control DIY/noise not unlike a more frenzied Soft Boys, a more good Gang of Four or a less psychotic SPK. Igor and Simon seem like a couple of gents with some hardcore political and intellectual pursuits, and like the Desperate Bicycles before them I sense that the choice of releasing a noisy cheaply recorded 45 with a xerox cover was an act of some sort of political defiance, back in the day where such an act was not co-opted from the ground up by extreme sports and Wall Mart hair dye. [Messthetics Greatest Hits and Messthetics #2]

61. Rough Cuts EP (Z-Block Records UK 1980) Inspired sampler of four bands (The Boywonders, The Ghoulies, The Czechs and the Decadent Few) two of which tell us their age on the cover (The Boywonders are all 16, The Czechs are all 17). Humbling thought that such musical spirit could be mustered at such a tender age. Great variety of flavors too: The Boywonders great inept, spooky DIY strut where the band might think that a reggae influence is prevailing, us knowing that the stumbleblock shuffle bears more resemblance to ancient Celtic airs, the unbearable beauty of the Czechs utter disregard of tone, meter and signatures or the Ghoulies oddly Booker T-esque chug n' scrape. The business, all and all. [Boywonders and Czechs on Messthetics #104: The Z-Block Story is here]

62. The Petticoats -Normal (Bla-Bla-Bla Records UK 1980) Ripping good-kind-feminist anti-normalcy rant. Spiritually uplifting in a way not dissimilar to first-hand experience of medieval church architecture, I shit you not. Recorded at Street Level which means that this record is Fuck Off Records related.

63. Reducers -We Are Normal (Vibes Product UK 1978) The sub genre Geoff Weiss-punk is hereby coined to describe this record. High-energy ineptitude. There is a strange kinship to the Pink Fairies/Deviants axis on this record ? A similarity in energy and attack, notwithstanding that the Reducers really don't know how to play their instruments very well. [Messthetics #1]

64. Il Ya Volkswagens - Kill Myself (Mechanical Reproductions UK 1981) One more year in the rehearsal space for these guys and I wouldn't be writing this. Discernable elements of gothrock and Bauhaus influence can be noticed as a faint vapor in this aural air to speak it in goth-speak, the crunch of the slightly sour guitar, the plodd of the (genius) bass line and the all-in slouch of the lethargic vocalist and the cracked-everyday electronics elevates this dirge into an 18 carat DIY-cruncher.

65. Quite Ridiculous Nonsense -Identity Crisis (No Label USA 1984) Most ace industrial wank of that rare late 70's variety. Wildly entertaining experiments in four track flatulence and transistor radio static.

66. Pervers/Deutscher Abschaum split 7" (Suff Productions Germany 1984) The Godhead. Reminds me of Teddy and the Fratgirls or the Foams in the sense that one gets the notion that these must have been fun gals to hang out with or date. The timeless splendor of the arty urban misfit girl: Her goofy charm and no-holds-barred enthusiasm for all that she found weird, interesting or sexually appetizing. A toast to the art school weirdo outcast girls of the world: May they forever paint their room black or read Hermann Hesse to you in bed! The music is wild, out of control amateuristic slop goes from Electric Eels fuzzed out haterock to drumkits thrown down the stairs to minimal teen-angst and then back. Beautiful stuff. Got this in trade from Thurston Snore for some boring free jazz records back in the day. What a chump!

67. The Prats -Disco Pope (Rough Trade UK 1979) 15-year old Scottish schoolboy punks seething with rage over the demon disco. Early Downliners Sect-style one chord R&B shuffle complete with the drum breaks that made God decide not to spare humanity. Don't miss it!

68. Plast -EP (Stranded Rekords Swe 1979) Four song EP of the finest in teenage punks attempting to embrace the confusion in their head from listening to TG, Cabaret Voltaire and Pere Ubu. An ungodly racket where the hostility of the chosen sounds meets the cozy ineptitude of the random noises. Plenty of short-wave noises and the crappiest of synths. Utterly charming.

9. Raincoats -Fairytale in the Supermarket (Rough Trade UK 1979) All enthusiasm/zero chops Ubu-esque DIY-charm from these stunning ladies. This is the best of their many records. Some kinda CD anthology that I can't find right now was released in the USA on the basis of Kurt Cobain being a big fan.

70. Tone Deaf and the Idiots -Why Does Politics Turn Men Into Toads? (Blue Angel UK 1979) Tone Deaf and the Idiots how do I love thee. This flexi is taken from their debut album Catastrophe Rock which still stands alongside the Damian & the Criterions "Avant Garde", Alvaro's Drinking My Own Sperm and Kräldjursanstalten's Voodoo Boogie as peerless monuments of original thought as far as late 70's underground albums are concerned. Catastrophe rock indeed. This is what "Music from the Big Pink" would've sounded like if it had been performed by the Portsmouth Sinfonia.

71. Desperate Bicycles -Grief Is Very Private (Refill UK 1980) One of the mighty Bicycles more introspective and subtle moments. Their entire recorded output is well worth hearing, and the range of emotions they paint from their palate quite astounding.

72. Door and the Window -I Like the Sound (NB Records UK 1979) One of many brilliant anti-music art school rants by the grand old daddies of the very genre. They like sound, they don't like the Pop Group, they like noise (um yeah!), they don't like butter The list goes on and I can't say that I reached any enlightenment as such by the end of this demented scratchy noise-fumble. But the journey sure was great.

73. Slugfuckers -Instant Classic (PRS Australia 1979) Homosexuals-y whiteguy funk/noise fracture that Liquid Liquid would've been pretty stoked about. Screeching scrape and dumb jokey asides. Who could ask for anything more?

74. Happy Cadavers -Nothing New (Undefined Records UK 1982) Punk/wave slop from the Midwest ? kind of aims for the Stranglers but hits Small Wonder Records. Charming stuff. Give me a fake English accent any day.

75. The Reflections - 4 Countries (Cherry Red UK 1981) Coulda been by the Desperate Bicycles this: stop/start gurgling plodding slop with most excellent Mark P. whining on top. Patented Karl Blake crumble-o-rific drumming not to mention the ambience added by the illustrious Nag of Door and the Window celebrity status. The Reflections album is well worthy of your grease as well as it is more of the same DIY-gunk but with a more contempo Recommended Records-type sound. [Messthetics #1]

76. Reacta -Stop the World (Battery Operated Records UK 1979) Another one that demands the Desperate Bicycles as cultural cookie cutter ? A beautiful ramble with the edgy guitars of Hilton Bomber-Thought Criminals.[Messthetics Greatest Hits]

77. Crash Action Winners - Hurricane Fighter Plane (Sonic International UK 1979) Somewhere in this mess of static and filtered mud are the chord-change(s) of "Hurricane Fighter Plane". The sleeve hints at the band being American, the sounds point straight in the direction of an English middle class art school, and the record cover furthermore defines them as a bunch of record collectors to boot. Not only is a Roky Erickson tune given the same crap-o-riffic sonic treatment, but the shoddy crumb-bum picture sleeve showcases record covers by the Seeds, the 13th Floor Elevators, Russ Meyer and Question Mark and the Mysterians displayed in tasteful collage form. Messthetics #104

78. The Plastic Mechanical Pig -Book Brains (IX Recording Company Japan 1981) Tricky one here, Ricky and Paul, the two guys on the cover of the PMP 45, look like a couple of student teachers and the record sounds like a couple of student teachers recorded a Raisinets/Half Japanese hybrid on a primitive 4 track. Charming record this, with two folky DIY-punk cuts, but why on earth was it released in Japan?

79. V/A - Mell Square Musick EP (Yaw Records UK 1979) I've listened to this record a good dozen times or so, and my jaw still drops. Frenzied homemade punk where the energy could light up a medium-size town. Similar to the Tandstickorshocks, Seems Twice or Red Cross "Born Innocent" LP in its instinctive disregard for notes, chords and melody, the Accused or the 021 are more than deserving of particularly exquisite golden wings in the halls of the Valhalla of Amateurism. I bow my head. [Cracked Actor Messthetics #7; Accused and 021 - Messthetics #103]

80. Tandstickorshocks - Allan Vogalan (King Kong Records Holland 1980) The Dutch Puritan Guitars right here, it is almost spooky how similar the sound of the two bands is. Spinning these 45's makes me wonder if this music somehow managed to sidestep rock & roll and the black music tradition as a core influence. There is something about the Tandstickorshocks which at the same time manages to remind me of Schoenberg, microtonal composers and Irish tin-whistle folk music. This is, needless to say, evidence that I should get out more often, but also that these slices of true-life counterculture juvenilia are not isolated from a cultural context, but embracers of it. Even if it did take a couple of decades for these records to be collected in some kind of organized manner. The kids in Tandstickorshocls must have been aware of Wire and the Young Marble Giants, but the minimal primitive music they create is original in the same manner as the artists on Pat Conte's "Secret Museum of Mankind" compilations.

81. Foams - Paint Me (Pet Me Quick Records USA 1981) A classic of sorts. Frenzied, inept live recordings by this all-girl Austin Texas punk band. The only way that I can explain the similarities to the Slits or the Raincoats are that gals sure have a different way of looking at things, or at least playing drums. Great smutty lyrics and barky art-school vox too.

82. SST -Clutch On the Ward (Tidal Wave Records USA 1977) Super-inept hippie punk/DIY from California with lotsa early punk scenesters name-checked on the sleeve. Ted Falconi pre-Flipper on guitar.

83. The Simple Approach to Newtown Products EP (NTP Records UK 1980) My approach was to pay the inflated price the dealer was asking and happily walk home with this great record. 4 songs, four bands: Crimedesk are toilet-recorded DIY-slop, Basic Unit must be the most amateuristic goth band I've ever heard, Beat Necessity showcase only the finest in tuneless death-dirge with off-key howling and Story So Far is an awesome Joy Division/Factory Records attempt, but with no discernable musical talent. Needless to say, the whole EP is as charming as the day is long.

84. Hörförståelse -Förläst Jävel (CTR Sweden 1980) Demented art skronk of drums, bass and crap keyboards featuring out of tune vocals regurgitating about someone being an over-educated bastard. Perfect, really. A must for fans of primitive shit music.

85. What To Wear - Casual But Smart EP (Basic and Typical Records UK 1980 (?)) Inspired stumble as an attempt to play dub, The Homosexuals can do it ? These guys can't. I don't know if this given failure brought about something new, but this record is a very listenable stab at atmosphere by a DIY band with limited budget and equipment. The flip also contains a couple of amazing speed-pop DIY-rambles. [ Messthetics #104]

86. Contact -Future (Object Music UK 1979) An avantfied klutz by a band who probably wanted to be Tubeway Army one thinks as one gazes upon the sleeve. They move from sloppy pro-rock attempts to full-on art-noise to excellent DIY jingle and jangle. One of many excellent items on the Object label. [ Messthetics #106 and Messthetics #7]

87. Good Missionaries -Deranged in Hastings (Unnormality Records UK 1979) A great stop/start hiccup with the patented GM/ATV tinny guitars and peripheral production. What makes this stand out is that barely concealed aggression, like a slow fuse or something.

88. The Potent Human EP (L'Aventure Records UK 1980) I maintain, and not only because of my middle class lifestyle, that the Bathroom Renovations is the greatest band name in the history of rock. This EP is a four out of four winner. Brilliant DIY fumble from The Mekon (no relation), The Liggers , The Spurtz and the ultra-wah-wah power of the Bathroom Renovations. Let me type that again: Bathroom Renovations. [Liggers: Messthetics #106]

89. Disco Zombies -Here Comes the Buts (Dining Out Records UK 1980) This is my favorite of their three spectacular singles. Thw thuick brogue of an accent blends in a most interesting way with the crappy guitar and dull throb of the melody line or the voluptous Steve Severin-style bass line.

90. Record Players -Double C Side EP (Wreckord Records UK 1978) The Record Players came from Kent, which mustered a bit of a mod scene a couple years later, but otherwise wasn't much of a factor in the punk (or DIY) world. Here they've mustered up an anti-MOR rant with a chorus that comes off kind of, eh, MOR-sounding. Imagine the classic DIY trashing, bashing and gnashing, but with one big ol' chorus, and the most obvious bridge you'll ever hear. "Ignore Us" on the flip is self-defeatist art that'll piss all over any Magnetic Fields as far as smug self-hatred goes. "It's just one thing you gotta do if you want to move along, ignore the music and ignore this song ? Ignore us and we might go away". How about that. [Messthetics #1]

91. Boys and Girls Come Out and Play EP (Boys and Girls Records UK 1980) Might be a grade school project this one, and not an art school project. Bands like the Human Cabbages, The Profile and The Famous Five are very young sounding. The fragile beauty of these tunes remind me of the UK Voice of the People anthologies of field recordings of folk songs. The purity, private nature of the songs and homemade-ness makes for a truly intimate, moving listening experience. The people on this record should be proud of this slice of juvenalia 20-odd years later.[Profile -Messthetics #103 -also a Human Cabbages song]

92. False Idols -Ego Wino (Old Knew Wave Records UK 1980) Paul Morotta's unknown English nephews. This could be a Poli Styrene Jass Band outtake. Great, spazzy DIY with jazzy chording and great, supressed aggression.

93. Bandage -Republik (Bandage Records Sweden 1978) Seems as if the average age of the band members is 16 or so, and that the mere existence of this record points to the purest and most blissfully unaware state of do it yourself: Some kids in a suburb of Stockholm getting turned on by punk rock and the notion of releasing their own record. The four songs are all fuzzed out riff rock, not unlike say, the Crucified EP, but the poor quality of recording, sound separation, levels and what have you is why the record is mentioned on this list. Not that any of that was done on purpose, mind you, for any DIY-ethic of sorts. Necessity and gratification and all that good stuff.

94. 49 Americans -Big Value (NB Records UK 1979) Another hidden Fuck Off Records release? The 49 Americans certainly moved in the same circles, and furthermore share plenty of aesthetic choices with Danny and the Dressmakers or the Instant Automatons. This record consists of 14 short blasts of fuzz punk meets art wank and is absolutely brilliant.

95. Gods Gift -925 (New Market Records UK 1979) Three tuneless tunes of the finest in fuzzed-out death-dirge DIY-slop. Kilslug jamming with the Door and the Window.[Messthetics #106]

96. Mud Hutters -Declaration EP (Defensive Records UK 1979) Mud Hutters ? Information EP (Dead Good Records UK 1979) Truly original band this. Somewhere in a Heartwork Records/Rock In Opposition neighborhood, but with a real Safe As Milk-crunch. There are psych elements on both these records, moments of blistering punk rock, and a generous infusion of the Desperate Bicycles (or Thought Criminals) ethics and esthetics. Fantastic records, and mandatory listening for any fan of the underground music of the late 70's era. Unfortunately, their subsequent album isn't great. By that time the band got Gang of Four damage.[ Messthetics #106: a track from their first EP is on Messthetics Greatest Hits]

97. Horrible Nurds -Consuming Passion (Half Wombat Records UK 1980) Oddly enough, this record sounds a hell of a lot like early Problem (Sweden) on the a-side, with the b-side being Tim Rose backed by ATV in a fantastic art-rock/DIY howler In that lost art form kind of way.

98. Reptile Ranch -Animal Noises EP (Z Block Records UK 1980) Thinking Fellers Union Local 282 (one of the most under-rated bands of the last 15 years says I and ponder an upcoming UT article) are here channeled way before they even were formed by some UK art school kids. Fantastic Beefheart-y R.I.O-hybrid DIY. Passionate, crude and obnoxious, sending this record to the top shelf of any record room! [Messthetics Greatest Hits]

99. Freiwillige Selbstkontrolle - EP (Zick Zack Records Germany 1980) Ace generic DIY/punk that could've been at home on an early Rough Trade 45.

100. The Rutto - Ei Paluuta (Ikbals Records Finland 1983) Figured I'd seal the circle with this one: A record as stupendous as "Medium Was Tedium" and as prominently throwing all the weight of the DIY-aesthetic on us, the listeners. The Rutto seem to be your 1983 run-of-the-mill small town punk rockers, and this 45 is generic, frantic buzzsaw guitar 2-chord punk. The magic with this one, however, is that in between the choca-blocks of teen nihilism is a noticeable sense of wonder and joi de vivre oozing thru' the grooves, or maybe I am just getting old and sentimental. Thanks for reading.

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kyloreyorgana · 5 years ago

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STAR WARS 9 ! TROS SPOILERS !

In case this is not obvious enough, this post will contain SPOILERS for the last Star Wars movie, which I’m just now coming home from. These are my first thoughts. I have tried to tag as best I could so that people who mute the tags don’t see my post. Do not proceed f you don’t want to read any spoilers.

You have been warned. Long (and I mean LONG) post ahead.

First of all, I’m happy to be back y’all! Just with TLJ, I come from months (or has it been years already ?) of inactivity to jump right back into the fandom, as obsessed as I was back when I came home from TFA. Which is funny because at the time TFA came out, I had lost all interest in Star Wars and heard so many critics from people who’d seen it and said it was horrible and that Disney basically sold the franchise to the devil that I didn’t even want to see it, to keep the good memories closer to my heart. One night, one month after its theatrical release, I thought “aw fuck I might as well see it, at least for Carrie, Mark and Harrisson” so I went to the cheap theater that was near my home... I had zero expectation, and really I think it’s the reason why I loved the movie so much. I didn’t chose to ship Reylo, this ship whacked me like Harley Quinn’s oversized hammer with the Hades and Persephone aesthetics. When I came out, completely mesmerized with what I had just seen, I jumped on Tumblr as soon as I got home, and I ended up creating this blog just days later. I wanted more and more, fics, metas, fanarts, headcannons, theories, cracks, I could never get enough. For TLJ and TROS, I had lost most interest in the fanfics and the fandom (because as much as I love the movies and some people in the fandom, most of it can eat shit as far as I’m concerned). I heard so many critics of TROS already, I was afraid I was going to be disappointed. But I loved it. Only Star Wars can make me go from utterly uninterested to “Wow I can’t wait to see this new Star Wars in theater, what a time to be alive”, to a stage of total obsession that lasts for months. And that is the reason why I don’t give two shits about anyone disliking the movies. It’s sad you didn’t like them, but it made me feel the same way I felt right back when I was a child watching the original movies with my father. It feels like home. And that is the best thing I could ask for.

Like in TLJ, I cried as soon as I heard the first note of the opening. The last Skywalker story, the last time I ever see my Space Mommy on the big screen...

I know the Reylo community is about to be nuts. The whole movie, like TLJ before it, is basically a series of things we’ve already done in fics and theories. I am 100% positive I have read a fic where Rey and Ren try to hold back a ship with the Force and Rey ends up involuntarily shooting lightning. Whichever one of you did it is probably going to have a stroke in the theater. I nearly did.

And really, I wish I could see the look on the Antis’ faces when they see the movie. I’m sure it is a sight to behold. I wanted to scream “TAKE THAT, BITCHES” more than once. As in TLJ.

My biggest fear was what they would do with Leia. I knew Disney said they wouldn’t use CGI and chose to stick with the scenes Carrie had already shot, and I was afraid it wouldn’t honor Leia’s legacy. Well I... have mixed feelings. While the way they used Carrie’s scenes and made it look like she really is here is to be lauded, it sometimes feels like Leia had nothing interesting to say but they tried to put her in a dialogue anyway, because she needed to be seen doing (or rather, saying) something in the Resistance. And about her death... I still can’t put my finger on what exactly I didn’t like about it but I felt like something was missing. Watching the scene, at first I didn’t know if she was having a heart attack or if she stabbed herself or chose to give up her life because she somehow felt it was the moment, I’m still not sure just why she did what she did. I wish they put something more to motivate her decision and explain what exactly she does. I don’t know, a flashback of Leia holding baby Ben, a little more dialogue, something. Not just Leia suddenly getting up and going to bed whispering her son’s name.

I knew I was going to be disappointed. Among all the celebrities’ deaths, Carrie’s is the one that affected me the most, and believe me I was a wreck when Bowie passed. I miss her, I think about her every single day. And Leia deserved more, much more. When I saw TFA, part of the reason why I loved the movie was that, even though it pained my heart that Han and Leia’s son turned out this way, I thought they would make it right. I spent hours imagining a scene in the 9th movie where Ren would defeat Rey (incapacitate her the Skywalker style cutting her hand or something) and approach to give the killing blow, and Leia would enter the scene, pick up Rey’s lightsaber, look her son dead in the eye and say “Over my dead body, son”. Because Leia would never give up without a fight, even with her son. And she would get her son back, and her story arc would have been completed. I would have paid good money to see this.

Episode 9 was supposed to be Leia’s movie, just like ep. 7 was Han’s and ep. 8 was Luke’s. When Carrie died, I knew it would be compromised and it broke my heart, because Leia deserved better. She lost everything. Her parents, her planet, her father, her husband, her son, her brother, the Rebellion, the Resistance, everything. She fought all the way, all her life even faced with the worst odds she never gave up hope, she inspired hundreds of people to keep fighting for what is right, and she would never have a satisfactory ending. What a fucking heartbreak. She didn’t even get to see Lando. Leia deserved more. Every little girl in this world who grew up with her as a role model deserved more. But c’est la vie, as we say in French... My only solace is that I know fanfics and fanarts are going to make me feel a little better about it.

Of course I cried every time I saw her on screen, and especially when they honored her body, as we all honored Carrie when she passed away. This was one of the many fanservice moments, and surely the one I liked the most, although there was some concurrence (more to it later).

Another thing I didn’t like is what they did to Poe’s character. Many people disliked TLJ because of it, which they attributed to a political agenda of hate on men. This is so ridiculous and has already been debated enough that I won’t get into it. I did like the evolution of his character in TLJ, because for me it was an interesting character development as well as a good message: wartime is not only about barging in fights head first, shoot first think later, as is, let’s be honest, everything Anakin ever does. At one point, the narrative of the reckless hero who saves the day when a situation seems impossible and everyone begs him not to do it gets old. Sometimes in war, you have to think ahead, to plot, and yes, listen to what your allies have to say. And it actually was a good critic of toxic masculinity. Could the conflict between Poe and Holdo have been avoided with minimally sane conversation ? YES. But the message was here (as were Holdo’s hair and dress and WOW gurl) and I thought that was it, and Poe would evolve into a wiser person.

But this Poe is, at least in the first half of the movie, not very likable. Hear me, I never really liked Han Solo (never been into macho men) but I really loved Poe in TFA because he was genuinely nice and brave. Here, he’s bitter and annoying. I told myself that he was jealous of Rey because he heard of Finn’s crush on her and he wanted to keep Finn all for himself, which I know is just a crack headcannon, but hey, anything to make it better I guess.

Of course, I’ll never forgive Disney for not making FinnPoe a thing, when even Oscar Isaac ships them hard. And trying to make Poe flirt with the other girl (whose name I even forgot and whose face we didn’t even see, now tell me again how Star Wars has been corrupted by feminists... sigh) Speaking of, it is me or did two women kiss at the end ?

I liked the new droid, it reminded me of my puppy. But at the end, it was just another fanservice moment, it didn’t really do anything useful onscreen apart from being cute and funny.

When Rey was finally revealed to be a Palpatine as I hoped, I giggled like a wee girl. Watching TFA, I begged the old gods and the new that they wouldn’t make her another Skywalker, because it would’ve spoiled the Star Wars spirit for me. The whole franchise, in my opinion, is a story about fighting for what you believe is right, no matter who you or your parents are or where you come from. Even though Luke and Leia’s ended up being Vader’s children, they weren’t the only meaningful characters. Anakin was basically a Space Jesus and went from a total nobody to the Chosen One. I didn’t want Rey to be a Skywalker because it would mean that your importance would only ever lay in your bloodline, and that is depressing and totally against the spirit of the Rebellion/Resistance: no matter who you are, you can fight for what is right. For this reason, I wished for Rey to be either a real nobody or Palpatine’s granddaughter, which is also why I liked the fact that Han and Leia’s son turned out bad, even though it made me sad for them (Leia didn’t deserve this). No matter your bloodline, you can always make things right, or fuck up badly if you let yourself be taken away. And, of course, the reveal that Rey and Kylo Ren are two sides of the same coin (aka one of the many times where I picture us Reylos screaming CALLED IT in our seats) was exactly what I hoped for, a beautiful balance. I didn’t share Palpatine’s implication that a Palpatine and a Skywalker are meant to work together, though. That is not how I choose to interpret this duality. That is not what they end up doing, anyway.

Speaking of that old pal Patine, seeing the trailers I feared I would feel nauseated that they chose to reanimate the Big Old Villain, just like they reanimated the Even Bigger Death Star in TFA (how lazy can you be ?). But I enjoyed it. What saved it was Palpatine’s will to be killed by Rey to perpetuate the Sith rite of passage. I don’t even care if it’s cannon or not. I was afraid they would recreate Vader’s dilemma in ROTJ with Rey, but I liked the choices she made. And the throne scene worked for me. Like the rest of the movie it was flawed, for instance we don’t even get an explanation on how he survived. Just like we don’t even get what Finn wanted to tell Rey, even though it was emphasized several times. Was it a love declaration ? What happened to the rushed romance with Rose in TLJ ? (What happened to Rose, actually). While we’re at it, why did Palpatine want Ren to kill Rey ? So many questions. So many flaws.

And, of course I cannot comment this film without mentioning my sweet star-crossed lovers, Rey and Ben. First, I’m really eager to see your reactions. We did it, Reylos! Years of hate and slander and we were right all along. Let’s rejoice.

I like Rey’s evolution. For the moment, I don’t feel like I have too much to say about it (which is fine because this post is way too long already). I like the way she handles her emotions, I like her choices and her character evolution.

And Ben. Oh, sweet Ben. Although I think the part where he gets his old mask fixed wasn’t necessary, I kinda like what they did with him as well. I must say though that I liked his hair in TFA better. Oh boy, I loved Kylo Ren but I absolutely adore Ben Solo. And I think the way the movie depicts him even surpasses some fics. The moment when Rey gives him the lightsaber and he gets up and does the Han shrug ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I almost lost my mind. This ties with the hommage to Leia’s body as my favorite fanservice moment.

And their relationship... Look, I know I wet my pants really enjoyed myself in TLJ when they held hands, but that scene felt rushed even for me who ships them with the force of a thousand suns. Like many things in TLJ (and, as I said, also in TROS) it felt like things I had already seen in fanfics, but in the fics I enjoyed the most Rey had tried to kill him at least 5 mores times before even agreeing to have a one-on-one conversation with him. Their romance in TLJ felt like it was hormone-driven, but I get Johnson couldn’t really do a slow burn in 2 hours. When Leia died and they both felt it in the Force, I could feel that Rey wanted to touch him, to confort him, to grieve with him. I’m glad she didn’t. It wasn’t time. And I really like that she told him she wanted to hold Ben’s hand, not his. And Ben, the Dork Knight, finally realized that if he wanted The Girl, he shouldn’t, you know, threaten her and chase her but get back to the Light Side like she begged him multiple times. Because he really isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer, this is apparently what makes him choose to tip over. That or the fact she saved his life. I was still frustrated by Leia’s death so I don’t know if I’m not entirely convinced because it happened just after, I’d have to watch it again. I liked Han’s moment, though.

And in my opinion, Rey and Ren’s fight on the wreck of the Death Star is as good as Anakin and Obi-Wan’s. My Reylo heart will always have a special place for their couple fight in TLJ (aka the best non-sex sex scene in cinema, don’t @ me) but I also liked this fight in light of their relation. Surprisingly, it reminded me more of their fight at the end of TFA, when we see Ren holding his blows and Rey barging in. I thought it was endearing.

The end. Oh my god, the end. I can’t wait to see the first gifs and I really really can’t wait for the HD gifs, because oh boy, I now only live for Ben Solo’s smile. That’s it, I found my will to live, my depression is cured. And the way he handles Rey’s body with the utmost care (while Finn apparently watches it and does or says nothing). And that kiss... And the SMILE. And the KISS.

Oh, dear gods. Oh dear.

I can’t wait for the first fics in which Ben doesn’t die and they live happily ever after on Tatooine or Naboo or wherever they damn want. Or the fics where he is indeed dead and they still share a beautiful relationship (if Force Ghost Luke could get his X-Wing out of the water, I’m eager to imagine what Ben would do with his Force dick, tongue and fingers. Forgive me, it’s getting late and I’m still flustered thinking of their kiss)

And the fact that she declares herself a Skywalker ? I know a lot of people are disappointed in this, but apart from the fact that she completely deserves the title in my opinion when she inherited the will of both Luke and Leia, which is reason enough, she is absolutely married to Ben and deserves her place in that family. Also, it’s again a beautiful way to remind you that bloodlines don’t matter as much as what we choose to do with our lives. And while I’m glad they showed Leia’s Force ghost (I would’ve been really mad if they didn’t) I’m super frustrated they didn’t show Ben’s. What am I to believe, that he gave his life for her, became one with the Force and vanished into litteral nothingness for him to never be seen again ? Like hell I don’t. Again, counting on the fics and arts to right this wrong.

The movie sure has its flaws, and I still have many unanswered questions, like what the fuck is the badge Maz gives Chewie, or how Rey does her lightsaber staff at the end, and I wish they explained some things better. I wasn’t sure if the saber Leia wanted Rey to have was hers or her mother’s. Most of those questions will be answered by bigger geeks than me in this fandom, so I really can’t wait to read from y’all.

I know a whole lot of people are going to hate the movie. The antis, the gatekeeping trve fans (already I’ve seen people say that those who enjoyed the movies are not Real Star Wars Fans and welp, we’re going to see a lot of shit). The manbabies who genuinely believe in a feminist takeover and see equality as a direct threat. I’m specifically happy they will be disappointed while I got the privilege of enjoying Star Wars as much as I did. It’s not my fault, or Disney’s fault even, that they turned out to be on the Empire’s side. And the day has not come when I defend a megacorporation.

Leia was the first SJW. The Resistance lives on. People will always fight against evil, like it or not. I know the world is a shitty place and we don’t have much hope nowadays for things to get better, and Star Wars has always motivated me to keep going and stick to my values and my convictions. I felt chills several times in the movie, like at the end where everyone comes to fight, and now I’m more willing to keep fighting than ever. For Leia.

Godspeed, Rebels!

#star wars spoilers #tros spoilers #star wars #the rise of skywalker #ben solo #rey #kylo ren #palpatine #alright now I go to sleep

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facialgirl2017-blog · 6 years ago

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Kala and Wolfgang: Why they were supposed to be “Ride or Die” (and why Love Did NOT Conquer All)

I know there is war right now among the fandom: those who loved every bit of the finale, and those of us who are bitter, angry, and feel betrayed over what happened with 1 of the 2 left unresolved story arcs going into the finale.

As we all know, the two major story arcs going into the finale that still needed to be finalized were: The takedown of BPO/Freeing Wolfgang/Revenge on Lila and Whispers. You could possibly break these into 3 sep arcs but I consider them to be 1 since Wolfgang was being held hostage and tortured by BPO and Lila and Whispers although working for their own self interests, were also working for BPO.

Overall, I think the resolution of this was good, I give it a rating of 7/10. There were a few things I was not crazy about: First, who was the chairman? When his face was revealed, he was no one we had ever seen, so why the big reveal? Second, before we could possibly find out who exactly he was and what his true motivations were, his brains were blown out. Really, we couldnt have gotten some info there, first? Also, I felt the killing of Lila and Whispers was somewhat anti-climatic. Though I love that Will/Wolfgang ended them together and I love the reappearance of Wolfgang’s rocket launcher, I was expecting or would have preferred some dramatic words exchanged first between them, some words of goodbye before killing them. Or even better, for Kala/Wolfgang to have killed Lila together. That would have been poetic. And 3rd, I felt the reason given behind Whispers zombie project, his motivations was weak and didnt make sense to me, JMHO. Though IMO what did happen wasnt the best, it was still decent.

Anyway, moving on, the other story arc going into the finale: Wolfgang and Kala finally truly being together at last and Rajan discovering the truth! Being that I am a GIANT Kalagang fan (literally my favorite tv couple of ALL TIME), I must say that I do love EVERY couple in Sense8, but Kalagang reigns supreme. And from everything I have seen on social media, they seemed to be THE MOST POPULAR COUPLE ON SENSE8. Surely Lana had known this, even though she doesnt do social media. They were also the only couple (except for Sun and Mun) that were not a solid couple still yet going into the finale. We had no worries of all the solid couples breaking up. Which in a way, is refreshing for a tv show cause so often couples are constantly torn apart and if you are lucky, put back together or always in angst. It was great that Nomi/Neets, Hernando/Lito, Will/Riley, etc never were in jeopardy. So I, like myself, expected a HUGE payoff for Kala and Wolfgang in the finale. They were the only couple that were in constant angst throughout all of season 1 and 2. And bravo to Max and Tina, for being able to keep that explosive chemistry alive throughout all 2 seasons.

Why should there have been a huge payoff for this couple you might ask me? Well, because of their character dev throughout both seasons. From the moment they saw each other for the first time, just like Will and Riley, they were in love (that is because in sensate world, some cluster mates are predestined to be together, I think so anyway) BOTH of these couples were predestined to be together in this cluster. Why was it so much more difficult for Kala and Wolfgang to be together than it was for Will and Riley? Because Kala was already about to be married to someone else, and Wolfgang was entrapped in a life of mob danger and a life of being treated like garbage by his crap abusive and violent family. Like he said in the finale, he always thought he was not worth it. Which is the main reason why he never loved a woman before, until Kala.

Kala was a woman who was afraid of herself, afraid of all the facets of herself and what and who she wanted in life. she was a people pleaser, and a very moral person (nothing wrong with that!). A person of faith (I really liked btw that at least one of the sensies was religious, though in reality more than 1 of them should be. And I am by no means a religious person, but that would have been more realistic since 95% of the worlds population is, but I digress).

These two characters could not be more opposite, but yet were perfect compliments of each other. From the very beginning, they were constantly drawn to each other while (in season 1 esp) having not much sensate connection with the others in their cluster. They each gave the other what they were lacking. And through this growing love and attraction to each other, Wolfgang was opening up to being more of the good person he truly was inside while Kala was growing more into being the brave, firey woman she truly was inside.

The only logical and expected conclusion to what was going to happen in the finale was that they would save Wolfgang. Kala and Wolfgang would finally meet in person, they would finally consumate their love in person, and after Rajan found out everything that was going on, Kala would nicely break up with Rajan, ending their marriage but probably remaining friends. But nope, that is not what we got.

At the end of ep 2x11, we had Kala finally CHOOSE WOLFGANG CHOOSE THEIR LOVE FOR EACH OTHER. She was brave, and she was totally going to tell Rajan except that Rajan didnt give her a chance to say anything and shipped her off. Never once during any episode did Kala ever tell Rajan that she loved him. It was obvious she cared for him, but we were never led to believe she was also in love with him as well as Wolfgang. Everytime she was conflicted with her choice, what she was always saying about this conflict was: choosing between her love for Wolfgang, or choosing the life and obligation she had with Rajan. Also that she doesnt like to hurt people and felt bad about hurting Rajan because he was a good man. Never once did Kala EVER say she was in love with both and that was her dilemma. Had that been the case, then I could totally understand her in the finale, choosing both. But that was not the case.

In the finale, Rajan was such an after thought to her that in the first couple of weeks they were in Paris trying to rescue Wolfgang, she NEVER CONTACTED RAJAN IN ANY WAY. It apparently didnt even occur to her, nor did she care enough to do so. Rajan had to contact her, and when he did, she panicked. He shows up, and is very understanding of the whole sensorium reveal, but now suddenly Kala does not have the courage to tell him about her love for Wolfgang? When she was going to tell him before she left for europe?

When Rajan arrived and Kala talked to him, we are left with the impression that she left out that her and Wolfgang were in love with each other. Then later as we see, Rajan seems to know what is going on, though we dont know how. Did she tell him but that part got cut from the ep. or did he figure it out on his own by watching everything that was playing out? Or did Will or Riley or someone else tell him? We dont know, but I assume he either figured it out on his own or Will or someone spilled the beans, cause in that moment of opportunity, Kala choked. This was the start of Kala inexplicibly reverting back to her season 1 self.

Rajan decides to stay and help (or more like tag along) with the cluster to help them on their mission. During this time, are we supposed to believe that Kala has somehow quickly fallen in love with Raj as well? She still never tells him that she loves him, and he has done nothing extraordinary for her to do so. The only thing I see is Kala developing more appreciation and admiration for him for being so understanding, supportive, and taking everything in stride. And Raj should be commended for that. but that is not true love. Sorry but it is not.

Kala again has the opportunity to really tell or show Raj her true heart for Wolfgang, to truly reveal her truth and herself to him. When she arrives at the chateau to greet both him and wolfgang. She could have and should have redeemed herself here, and give Wolfgang the greeting he truly deserved. But nope, cowardice completely consumes her again. But I have to ask: WHY? There is no reason for this cowardice. Rajan already knows (somehow) at this point about Wolfgang. It was nice that she hugged and kissed Raj, but then she gives Wolfgang the kiss she wants to give him via visiting instead of in person. This made me so angry I wanted to throw a shoe at the tv! (I almost did!) yes she did give Wolf a really great hug in front of Raj, but she should have kissed him as well (and maybe at this time also tell Raj adios? In a nice way, of course). But she didnt. Second opportunity gone.

After that we get no real life physical love-in between Kalagang until Kala is shot and almost dies. Finally she and Wolf kiss in real life. But Raj is there (seriously?) and she has to make him feel good and important. To me that ruined the entire intimate moment of love between Kalagang. (another imaginary shoe thrown at the tv)

Last real opportunity for Kala to find her courage was at the wedding. I really expected it to happen here. I expected there to be a romantic scene between Kalagang, a grand gesture of love for everyone to see. Nope, didnt get that. All we got was them dancing together in the distance, Kala holding hands with Raj during the ceremony, Will asking Kala what is her choice and Kala shrugging her shoulders as if this is just a silly little choice (A CHOICE SHE ALREADY MADE BEFORE LEAVING FOR PARIS) and then one of the other clustermates ( I forget who) asking Wolfgang about it and him shrugging his shoulders as if it is no big deal to him who or when Kala finally chooses! WHAT??? This makes ZERO sense! This honestly ruined the whole wedding for me. It really did which also makes me mad!

This is long so I will briefly touch on why Raj and Wolf were also out of character for this whole thing. Wolfgang throughout the season is a Ride or Die kind of a guy. Extremely loyal and will do anything for the people who truly loves. he shows this over and over. He is like that with Felix, with his mother(in the flashback) with all of the cluster, and with Kala. He is so ride and die that he has killed several of his close relatives for justice. He pressured Kala into choosing at the end of season 2. He basically said to her “stop playing games, now or never” (not a quote from him, just the feeling behind what he actually said) and he even told Kala “pretending isnt a life” this man has NEVER pretended who he was EVER in his life. But now he is going along with this pretend threeesome? Umm no that makes ZERO sense. The love between him and Kala was so deep, they were both willing to Romeo/ Juliet duo suicide for each other, but suddenly “meh, she can stay married to Raj and I will share her on the weekends”? No, I dont think so, that completely goes against everything Wolfgang is and always has been.

And I also dont believe Raj would go along with this. Yes he has always loved Kala even though he has always known that she did not reciprocate the same intensity of feelings for him and he just went along with it anyways. But we must remember, he did try to give her an out a couple of times in season 1 and also during their honeymoon. he also even said in 2x11 that he fully understands the future of their marriage is uncertain and he is fine with that. Also, I am pretty sure that indian men are not accustomed to sharing their wives with other men. Not to mention, I think Raj has enough self esteem to want a better and more complete love from a woman for himself. And being he loves Kala so much, he should love her enough to want her to go with her true love. I honestly think he would want that. Raj would not settle for this limbo, either. He could not be happy in the short or long term, taking turns with Wolfgang for Kala’s affection and attention.

So this shotty conclusion is just so wrong in so many ways and goes against all 3 characters and their entire story arc. Lana throws all of that away that she did with these characters previously, just so she can shatter societal norms by saying “why should a woman have to choose?” If that was your true intentions all along, Lana (which is obvious it was not) then you would have written their story development A LOT differently throughout the two seasons. Kala left immediately to go rescue Wolfgang, she cared less about her husband until he showed up. She broke through blockers and sedatives to connect with Wolf, she was willing to kill herself for him, Wolfgang felt he was not worth it and Kala assured him that he was, but yet despite all of that she cant find the courage to tell Rajan I want a divorce, I need to be with the man that I love? You titled the episode “Love Conquers All” yet you contradict yourself in the finale with this story, but showing that love does not conquer all. It was not even able to conquer a silly fear of speaking the truth and letting another person down. In the end you did a great disservice to all 3 characters, but Kala in particular. You who say are a champion for strong women, made her weak, cowardice, and selfish in the end. You had her basically show Wolfgang through her actions (or lack of actions) that he actually was not worth it. Shame on you, Lana. And that is why we kalagang fans are really let down by the finale.

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yvvaine · 7 years ago

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I was wondering if any [past or present] Jonerys, Pro-Daenerys fans like myself feel this way.....?

Firstly Id say please be nice i just enjoy analyzing the shit out of fandoms I like, (im a history/polysci major ((with an emphasis on Peace Justice and & Conflict Studies)) all i do is analyze and try to be diplomatic lmao) but considering all they petty drama between both ships as well as pro/anti Daenerys stans ON BOTH SIDES I’m going to be “That Person” and at least ask for people to be respectful/civil, I want to hear from everyone and their metas/what they think which is why i tagged like, all the tags, no matter if you love her/the ship or cant stand it, as long as everyone can keep civil So firstly I’ve loved Dany both books and show from the beginning. She’s gorgeous, wants to be the best person she can be, and her hair/fashion style game is always ON POINT. That being said, somewhere around season 5 i think i’ve found my opinion on her cooling a little bit, ep after ep, till now. Like I still like her bc she was my first character love on the show but I’ve def soured in my opinion on her. Maybe it’s because I love learning about the subject that im more baised (im hoping thats the case) but she just seemed to have no interest in actual governance, just the reputation (esp of being the ‘rebel queen’)/the awe/the power/the thrill of the adoration that went along with it to the point where I feel like though she still wants to be a ‘good queen’ or at least wants to be seen that way, she doesnt want to do much work for the title. Like yeah she freed all the slaves and that was a def progressive and awesome move on her part (major props! slavery is sin and im glad someone recognized that who had the power to do something about it) but she didnt handle that aftermath or ensuing problems well at all nor really mulled heavily on the subject to find the best solution. She just got fustrated with pretty basic/common (albeit complex in themselves) issues of standard governance and kind of went agh! fuck this! (obv not actual quotes but that was the vibe I got). And then ESPECIALLY after season 7 her character has kind of nagged at me in the back of brain which i hate but its inherent like its just a feeling i cant help it?? I just dont know why to be honest that Im feeling so negative towards this character i used to love. The whole ‘ bEnD thE knEe ‘ thing w/ Jon and yet pinning it on Jon’s pride not equally on his and her own was more than a little hypocritical, when hon they can discuss it later like at that point they have two common enemies the WW and Cersei they both want to do away with, and then again with the Bend the Knee or Die bit w/ the Lannister soldiers. In fact the whole sequence before that point felt kind of villinous I dearsay, I mean deliberately burning the harvest that most of westeros needs for the winter or even strategically not willing to try, and well, nOOt intentionally burn the food considering its winter, the harvest is over (so likely not much is gonna grow in the time being) when she has a G I A N T ass army of her own to think of feeding???? Like i get it is war shit happens soldiers die but the F O O D ? Was that an impuslive in the moment mistake or did she just not give a fuck? And back to the aftermath scene/Bend the Knee 2.0, her speech was again quite hypocritical...and burning dickon?????? not willing to keep prisoners???? either bend or die??? I actually am glad she did away with Papa Tarly bc he was an awful human, but dickon????? a young idealistic man about to loose his father??? the heir to a major ally/house???? And honestly that bend or die strategy is soooooo dumb bc now she cant trust any of them like theyre only bending the knee out of self preservation homie, no one wants to die. they bend the knee to survive and now they all of the sudden think youre their queen? Nah fam, prisoners were better, all you got are spies in your camps or people willing to backstab you at the smallest promise of coin. And i dont want that for my girl

IDK the whole “im gonna BREAK THE WHEEL,,,,,,,,yet im stating my claim mainly on my housename (aka the predominant force of said wheel for a literal dynasty) and the fact that i can scare people who otherwise are unconvinced bc lets be real westeros has had a bad run of rulers a lot of which were Targs in the past couple decades, into submission bc ill burn you otherwise???” doesnt sit well with me nor does it feel like the character ive been rooting for the past five-ish seasons. She just doesnt seem to put into effort on understanding Westeros, why things go wrong, being self-critical or sharing the blame,thinking on what a “good” ruler would do.... anyone else feeling this way and if so do you think this is just shitty writing? D&D butchering her character? or a new arc for her? perhaps the way shes always been? She just seems like a tantruming child bratty and entitled idk (a beautiful child but still) As for jonerys...... im not gonna go into it much but how are other shippers happy????????? I honestly dont understand. I was SO looking forward to this season/this ship. like so much! But it felt so forced? And i know a lot of people claim its cause its rushed but tbh we’ve had a lot of romances in a similar time frame that felt like A C T U A L romances.....even Talisa/Robb who the Northerners will prob compare any of this too were so much better. THIS WAS MY EPIC SHIP DUDE. I feel the dany side of things (took a while but theres def heart eyes) and yet Jon???? He felt hollow. Still does even after sex. Im so disapointed but more than that I cant see the romance or the chemistry. He looks constipated. Hes never smiled like with his teeth around her the way hes done w others he cares deepily about (ygritte, toramund, sansa, even fkin gendry in the first scene they had together). He never reveals anything about himself. And between the “my queen” ep (and remember he was look warm when discussing her to toramund throughout it) and the previous the only thing that changed was that he saw the actual difference dragons made against WW. You could argue she saved them all too but that doesnt make you fall in love w someone out of the blue and also people have saved his ass before and??? Sansa w the vale anyone??? (Not an argument for jonsa js its happened) (though ill admit ive transitioned to loathing jonerys and loving jonsa more as a potential couple in the space of seven eps where if you asked me I wouldve been like PSH u cray. I never thought it would happen in a mill years but D&D ruined my ship and here i am! Shipping aside tho since its best too look at these things as neutral as possible). Anyways the sigh of his after she left and when he pretended to be asleep.... idk. The only scene that felt genuine and where Jon smiled and it didnt look like a full on grimace and they actually kinda joked around was really nice and at the pit at the finale and if they do a LOT more of basic romance stuff like that I could ship it again but. It was followed by boatsex and boy. I was hoping boatsex might rekindle my like for the two together. I could see the chemistry the passion. I was hoping the passion would overwhelm me and make up for the rest. But instead......like there was no foreplay, it lasted 2 seconds, and it was overplayed by brans voice and a reminder of future conflict or at the very least major angst b/w the two. i didnt see the parallel between regear and lyanna playing alongside their scene as anything romantic or that it should be taken as such. and the look they shared.... I was hoping jon would bring it bc Dany’s look in her eyes is like soooo smitten and adorable and say what you will I still have a space in my heart for her and still dont want her to suffer, but again Jon looks like oh shit/constipated. And not in a good oh shit way either. There is a bunch more too but Imma stop there bc Im just tired at this point. So many things were just....off this season. And it cant all be blamed on the “rushed” time frame. I’ve read the undercover lover theory and hon it makes the most sense (not perfect sense but still, more than what we’ve been poorly spoon fed) but im not willing to believe it just yet. Still, maybe D&D are just butchering a lot of things like making the romance believable and stuff for the sake of time that could be true i guess. But they like to go AHA GOT U so Idk I dont find a lot of meta in the jonerys tag bc honestly (((((i think its bc the tag and ship are more popular and theirs more people both good and bad)))) it doesnt seem like snowballing theories is something all fans take really well in the tag at all. But whatever. I really want to know, is there any meta or theories im missing to either validate the icky feeling Im haveing about D or her “romance” or on the flipside anything that might make me change my mind about it? Theories, meta people! I just want to reiderate im not trying to hate on anyone or any point of view and I will flag any comment anti one ship or person or another if its plain hateful or rude. I just want to understand it and see what Im missing, esp because of how much I was looking forward to her arc and jonerys’ dynamic and how much the words “falling short” dont seem to cover it. And to see if im not the only one to either have critique on the ship or her character [or even actually change ships] Also i apologize for how much ive said “IDK” i just..... I DONT KNOW

#this was way longer and is so rantish but #i might delete this later #depending on if i get hate for 'daring' to be critical #for now tho help a girl out? tel me your opinion? thx #jonsa #anti-jonsa #anti-jonerys #daenerys targaryen #anti-daenerys #plz be nice to eachother or just dont interact at all i just like knowing every side of things #and i feel like theres a side im missing or something im missing #i have a lot of feelings

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morleybell · 8 years ago

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hey i saw how you ship klaus and caroline and i wanted to ask you as a klaroline shipper myself, how do you respond to the antis who say that klaroline is unhealthy and toxic? Thanks

I’ve been thinking about the reason why kc could be toxic/unhealthy in someone’s mind and the only scenes that come to my mind is stabbing scene and klaus killing tyler’s mom. Nothing else comes to my mind so I guess I will focus on that, if you have something else they’re accusing kc of just hit me up.

I will focus more on why I don’t see this relationship as toxic & not how I respond to them. Because one: t100 fandom tought me to not fight anymore because it’s tiring, if i see some dumb people on twitter I’d usually make a joke about their anti kc tweets. two: after 4 years i legit don’t give af what they think since I know we’re getting our endgame.

Now I know it’s dumb to say but I always look at who are antis shipping instead. If it’s Stero.line or DE, it’s obv they don’t look at the whole story of characters/ship but only at one scene. SC or DE has lots of scenes which are done well, romantic light, music etc and if i haven’t seen the whole show, I’d say “yeah they make a cute couple”. But (sorry if you’re DE fan i’m just using them because it’s the easiest for me) if you watched the whole show and you see the whole story you see how fucked up the couple is. Example: SC might have kiss with some good music and good light and all that stuff but doesn’t change the fact that Caroline literally had to tell Stefan that she deserves the same respect he gave Elena;doesn’t change the fact that to Stefan Elena and Damon will always come first; doesn’t change the fact that whole Caroline’s story during all seasons was that she wanted… she deserved to be someone’s first. And Stefan (or any other character beside Klaus) couldn’t give it to her. (I did love Tyler though with my whole heart and I do think For.wood was amazing). To ship sth I always need a good story, not only chemistry. This is what KC has. This story is about Klaus who thought he wasn’t capable of love until he met her and Caroline who thought noone will ever put her first.(I won’t bring up whole Caroline’s mother dying to prop up Stero.line, her dying to make Stefan realize he has some feelings for Car… I won’t talk about it but the point is that no matter how amazing music, light, dress etc they’re going to have in their scene - their story is still terrible).

Next thing is that tvd is supernatural show. You can’t compare KC to some ship from non-supernatural show and say “yeah they’re healthy and KC is toxic” because in tvd/to they’re all vampires, they have to kill people to live, and in other shows the worst thing they can do is well idn steal(?). Also people comparing KC to any other ship in TVD and saying they’re “healthy” and “kc is toxic”, please love yourself. Julie fucked up every ship possible in tvd and on every couple I’d find sth to say they’re destroyed. (I’m both SE and KC fan and I do think SE was fucked up so many times and KC sex scene made no sense and it was only a “goodbye” to our fandom). I was talking with people from HTGAWM fandom about KC one time, they were all Wau.rel shippers (like me, tagging it only like this so it won’t end up in their tag) and they all hated KC. They asked me how can i ship this “toxic” ship and “pure, healthy” wau.rel ship at the same time. The thing is - show is different, the “world” in both shows is different and you could never compare this two ships together. Once again - TVD deals with vampires who live for 1000-100 years and during their whole life they had to do some terrible things to survive & they lost their humanity along the way etc etc etc.

Now defending KC. I’m gonna start with the fact that Klaus is like 1000 years old and for his whole life he has been fighting about what he wanted, always getting what he wanted, and everyone was supposed to fear him and be at his command. The only ones he cared about for his whole life (which is 1000 year!) was his family (in his twisted way because he did “kill them” -put them to sleep lmao but u know what I mean). He lived like that for his whole life. Then Salvatores/Tyler started challenging him and he was lashing out. That’s when he killed Tyler’s mother or when he stabbed Caroline. Now if someone doesn’t want to ship KC because of that then ok, I understand. But u gotta understand the story. Klaus for 1000 years cared only about his family. TVD gang killed Kol (his brother), locked up Klaus in a room and left dead body in front of him for hours to just.. watch but not being able to even touch him. THEY LITERALLY KILLED HIS BROTHER IN FRONT OF HIM AND HE COULDN’T HELP HIM. (I’m honestly still dissapointed and surprised and everything that he didn’t burn the whole Mystic Falls down after this.) So that’s on stabbing scene, I think he just lost it because of what they have done to his brother and for me it’s understable when you think about the fact that noone ever did something like this to him for 1000 years - kill a member of his family. (once again it’s a supernatural show and searching for pure ship who meets falls in love and gets married is just not a supernatural show) Similar situation was with Tyler’s mother - Tyler was responsible for taking Klaus’s whole army, his “new family”, so he lashed out to show who is in power. How Klaus paid for that? With Kol’s live. Plus: Klaus killing somebody is on Klaus not on Caroline.

The core of toxic/abusive relationships is when the person1 just accepts what the person2 is doing to them. They fear them or they even defend their actions (like “he has been drinking, it normally wouldn’t have happened”). It’s when the abuse is justified/excused by them or some other people (which obv is wrong). Once again sorry if you’re DE but for me it’s just perfect example. When D killed Aaron, Elena’s friend (because “Elena” broke up with him, legit that’s his whole reason) - IN THE SAME EP - Elena defends him and says it wasn’t his fault. D screams “look at us we’re in toxic relationship i just killed your friend and you found someone else to blame” - Elena was blaming herself (Katherine in her body) for this. That NEVER happened with Klaroline.

Caroline never defended Klaus’s actions. Klaus knew, feared that Caroline would never ever accept him for who he is, that she would never forgive him or forget things he has done (not only to her friends but for his whole life - the monster he was for 1000 years). Legit IN EVERY FUCKIN SCENE Caroline calls him out on all things he has done. She not even once justified his behaviour. Lemme show you examples I remember because I haven’t seen s3/s4 in like 4 years.

4x18: Klaus: I saved your life. Twice. Caroline: Because you put it in danger. Twice.

Klaus: Don’t turn your back on me. Caroline: I should turn my back on you ages ago.

There’re a lot of scenes like that, Klaus tries to have the “power” over the situation, screams, Caroline doesn’t give a fuck and calls him out on what he has done.

5x11 Caroline: Don’t you have a dying girl who you want to punish for all of her sings. Klaus: I do but I won’t for you.

Klaus for almost whole Katherine’s live was trying to catch her, kill her, use her etc. Even when Elijah begged him to stop because he was in love with her, he didn’t agree. Caroline didn’t even have to ask and Klaus changed his mind thanks to her, for her. It’s all for her.

Caroline was trying for so long to not admitt her feelings, her attraction for Klaus. In 4x13 he asks her is she could forget everything what he has done but he knows she can’t but she believes he can be saved.

4x17 Klaus: Don’t understimate the allure of darkness. Even the purest hearts are driven to it. (…) Klaus: So you never felt the attraction that comes from someone who is capable of terrible things cares only about you Car: I did once when I thought it was worth it.

4x13 Caroline: There’s a part of you that is human. Klaus: How could you think that? Caroline: Because I’ve seen it. Because I caught myself wishing I could forget all the terrible things you have done. Klaus: But you cant can you? Caroline: I know that you’re in love with me. And anyone who is capable of love is capable of being saved.

This was 4x13. In 5x11 everything has changed. She admitted what she felt to him what she wanted.

Klaus: I’m going to walk away and I’m never coming back. You’ll never again have to look me in the eye and cover our connection with hostility or revulsion. And you’ll never have to loathe the darkest parts of yourself that care for me, in spite of all I’ve done. i will be gone and you will be free. I just want you to be honest with me. (..) Caroline: Yes, I do cover our connection with hostility.. because yes, I hate myself for the truth. So if you promise to walk away… like you said, and never come back. Then yes.. I will be honest with you. I will be honest with you about what I want.

Okay where am I going with this. Caroline never justified Klaus’s action. She saw the good part of him but was never okay with what he was doing to other people. She challenges him, she calls him out, she doesn’t take his shit. In “toxic relationship” she would be the one who would defend him, his actions and would forgive him everything he has done. But it’s not her. The story of her admitting that she feels something to him goes through 3 seasons. She admitts that she saw the good in Klaus in 5x12(I think?) but she still doesn’t defend his actions and everyone is making her feel bad about her sleeping with Klaus. Stefan is the only one who says that they all have done terrible things and Klaus isn’t the only person like that. Only after that she accepts her “connection” with Klaus (her sleeping with Klaus) but she still don’t give him a free pass to all things he has done and she doesn’t want to be with him. And Klaus gives her the time she needs, he says however long it takes and leaves her and waits until she is ready and she will show up at his door. (in toxic/abusive relationship he would just take what he wanted)

god this is so long I should end this but I feel like I still didn’t say everything I wanted… eh, I will just end it like this ok? Like I said hit me up if you have some doubts about anything.

#ask #anon #answered #omg i cant believe finally #klaroline

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kinetic-elaboration · 8 years ago

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May 25: The Finale

So here's how I stand with The 100 now that the finale has aired.

I still haven't watched anything past 4x10, but I'm reading spoilers on my dash and keeping up with the general outlines of things. Before the finale aired, I was starting to get curious about developments again and thought I might just wait for the last ep to air and then binge the final arc maybe over the long weekend or something. Now that I know how the season ends up, my interest in watching has plummeted and while I think it would be silly of me to say 'I'll never watch it ever' (those are very much the sort of words a person like me later eats), I have no interest in watching it any time soon. Maybe over the summer. Sometime. Eventually. Who knows?

The biggest reason to watch the last episodes is to be able to have an actual leg to stand on for complaining purposes but frankly not being up to date on canon hasn't stopped me yet, lol. I just disclaim all complaints with 'I'm one of those annoying people who bitches about developments in episodes I haven't seen' and leave it at that.

I don't want to be like the anti's, hating the show and talking about how much I hate it but sticking around in fandom anyway, raining on everyone else's parade. It worries me that people might come across my ranty posts and think that of me. But... okay, look, I have done a lot of complaining going all the way back to season 3 and I'm up front both about what I don't like in the show and about why I'm here in the fandom anyway. I like the fandom, I like the characters, I like the universe, etc. I still want to engage in the transformative-works aspect of the fandom. And honestly I've never been a meta writer or engaged in speculation or predictions so looking only at what I produce, content-wise...whether or not I like the canon or even whether or not I'm caught up on it makes no difference. It will matter even less now that we're in the hiatus and there's no new material to speculate on in the first place.

Finally, and most importantly, I'm really honestly not here to ruin or even put a damper on anyone else's fandom experience. I tag my negative posts as negative. I censor names when I'm talking shit about specific characters or ships. I don't go into people's inboxes and I don't even have a Twitter but if I did, I wouldn't use it to harass other users or people who work on the show. Like, I just want to sincerely love the first two seasons, the general concept, and the characters, while bemoaning the state of the show as it is now. (Also, tbh...sometimes complaining is fun and the vast number of people who leisure-complain on any number of topics is evidence enough of this phenomenon—at least I'm honest about taking pleasure in the occasional bout of this is so fucking stupid inconsequential-rage.)

As for what I actually think of what I've heard of the finale.... I've tried to write this up a couple of different ways and I think (hope) I've FINALLY distilled my thoughts.

The two things I ABSOLUTELY DID NOT WANT out of the finale were (1) for the characters to go to space and (2) a time jump of pretty much any sort. So now that those two things have happened, my brain has basically short circuited. I cannot even comprehend this. I literally don't have the words. Maybe I sound hyperbolic, but I'm just trying to explain how much disdain I have for these two plot points. I can't even fathom how anyone ever thought this would be a good idea; it's like I'm in an alternate entertainment universe. It's ludicrous.

My problem with the space launch is that it crosses the disbelief line for me. Obviously there's a lot of faux-science in this show and everyone has a different line as to what is reasonable-enough if you don't think about it too hard, and what is just absolute nonsense but, for whatever reason, this is my line. I don't know what the details were on the actual show come launch-time but just the concept of launching a space craft from a post-apocalyptic wasteland is so ridiculous that I cannot imagine a way to squint or turn my head or angle my screen so that it seems even remotely tenable. A ROCKET LAUNCH. FROM THE RUINS OF POST-NUCLEAR NEW YORK. Like ?????????????????????????. I previously described this possibility as sounding to my ears like riding a pegicorn to New Jersey to get the magic potion from Raul (s/o to my freshman year roommate for the Raul in-joke, so useful to me so many years later), and that's still how I feel.

My bigger problem is with the time jump. To put it briefly, it's a new show now. The combination of Radiation 2.0 and the time jump has cemented that.

I've felt for a while now that whatever it is I'm watching now isn't what I originally signed up to watch. I've seen a few other posts to similar effect, and even my mother (who acts as my Typical Casual Viewer one-person control group, even though quite obviously she is not representative of a typical cw viewer at all—still she's not in the fandom so she is completely untainted by what goes on in these parts)--even my mom said she thinks JRoth/the writers are basically telling a completely different story now than they were initially. I've had, and am still having, a hard time articulating exactly what makes it fundamentally different (as opposed to merely a show that's evolved over time, as long-running shows do), or even when exactly it happened. But I guess at its core the complaint is: this is supposedly a show about "the hundred," and of that group almost all have been killed or lost to the ether, and the remaining members have had their screen time chronically cut short to accommodate a growing cast of characters who have increasingly little to do with that core group or its original purpose or journey. The complaint is partly one of frustration at the large number of delinquent deaths and the small scraps of screen time given to other alleged mains, and partly a more general annoyance at the loss of the whole meaning of the affiliation "the hundred." What does it mean to be a member of the hundred anymore? Basically nothing. And when it ceased to have meaning (by which I mean S3), the show became, in essence, a different show.

Obviously there's a counter to this whole general complaint (that the show is too bloated with characters generally and/or Grounders specifically), which I've also seen floated out there recently, which is that destroying everything on Earth will allow something more like S1 to flourish again, and a new emphasis to be placed on the core young people. To this I say, first, it's way too early to tell what S5 will be. And I'm in a particularly bad place to really engage with this argument, given how much of even the current canon I've missed. BUT I am skeptical. First, we were told S4 would feel like S1 again and IMO it most definitely has not. Second, most of the hundred are dead and/or gone—I'm not just talking about the toll among the original mains or even the original named characters, I'm talking about how 42 of the original captured teens made it out of Mt. Weather and all but 4 of them were never heard of again. So even if the show returns to caring more about, say, Monty than it does about Grounder of the Week, nothing can undo the destruction to the original concept; nothing can really solve the problem of which I'm complaining. And third, I don't think the writers think they're writing a bad show; I mean, they're the ones who brought us down this path in the first place. This, what we've seen over the past 2 years, IS JRoth's vision. Yes, sometimes showrunners make a mis-step and readjust course, and I thought perhaps that would happen for S4, but it hasn't, which means that he doesn't think S3 had the problems I think it had, which means there's no reason to think S5 will be any better than S3 or S4 were, at least from my POV.

But anyway as I was saying—

Maybe there's been room for argument about this same show/different show question up to now; it's a fuzzy sort of concept in my mind with which I'm not entirely comfortable—I feel a bit like I'm just Complaining About Change like an old grandma, tbh. Despite how it sounds, I do want to be open-minded about others' creativity and to give the benefit of the doubt to ongoing projects/unfinished stories. Regardless, ending S4 in this way is a pretty big sign that the theory, whether or not it was right before, is right as of now. Is there any way to more effectively raze the ground and salt the Earth than to literally raze the ground and then skip ahead 6 years? I have a million problems with this large time gap, but on the top of the list is that, like everyone over the age of 25 knows, a person changes dramatically between the ages of 18 and 25, or 16 and 22, just in the normal course of events, apocalypse(s) not withstanding. The writers have given themselves carte blanche to do literally absolutely anything with these characters. Even for a show that's barely cared at all about consistency over time in pretty much any aspect, that's troubling. (Also, like, I signed up for a show about a bunch of teens in the forest, not a group of twenty-somethings...doing whatever they'll be doing in season 5. I feel a tiny bit like a promise has been broken, sorry.)

So having basically established that whatever this show used to be, it's not that anymore, I guess the question is: what is it now, and do I like it? I think this is the question every viewer basically has to ask themselves, consciously or no. For me, what I've seen the last two years is some mismash of GoT, general dystopia, repetitive story lines, action sequences, and nonsense "science." The plot is ridiculous, the pacing is terrible, the emphases are (for my taste) in all the wrong places, the characters are shoddily drawn, and often times, it's fucking boring. It's a bad show. Things like loyalty to a few characters, interest in a few story lines, and sheer curiosity/inertia have kept me here despite it all, but at this point I feel the balance has just shifted imperceptibly the other way. Jasper's death has a lot to do with it (he was my favorite, he had the only good or even coherent story of S3, and the way his death and its aftermath were handled were so insulting one could easily justify a decision to stop watching as mini-protest), but I think that it was more the (very heavy) straw on the camel's back than anything else.

I guess the tl:dr version of this is GOODBYE BITCHES I'M DONE and yet I still can't even promise I won't be watching Season 5, like I can't predict how I'll feel in a year.

#s4 negativity #the year 2017 #2017: the 100 s4 #2017: fandom thoughts #basically i hate this show #but i'm in too deep #the 100 spoilers

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