#which he does in dr0

[princescar]

Enomatsumiki ot3 charts bc them and Chappell Roan is the only thing that has been keeping me stable

[rarepairronpa]

reading the wiki, going "oh mikan didn’t have any friends growing up?" and putting her in an AU where she was childhood friends with ryoko and matsuda

As you should!!! That would be super interesting, tbh. Childhood friends enomatsumiki/ryoumatsumiki would be such an interesting dynamic - especially the Yasuke and Mikan angle! We all know Mikan would grow to adore Ryouko, considering... But her relationship with Yasuke would be the really interesting part. Also, I could totally see the two of them defending her from bullies. Maybe Yasuke's mom sort of "takes in" Mikan in the sense that she let's her stay with her to get away from her guardians. And maybe when she gets dementia, that's one of the first things to go - leading to a very traumatic memory of Yasukes mom forcing Mikan out of her house with little to no warning. That whole thing would probably fuel both Mikan and Yasuke's medical career - not just Yasukes. Can you tell I have a lot of Yasuke's mom feelings? I imagine little Ryouko/Junko and little Mikan both call her "auntie". When Ryouko loses her memories, I think, would be the first clash between Yasuke and Mikan, since Mikan would not buy that it was natural and would demand Yasuke stop erasing her memories. "What are you expecting to happen here? That you can keep erasing her memories until the end of time? It won't work! She'll figure it out!" (Which would maybe lead into Yasuke talking about the NWP, which I think would genuinely scare Mikan.) If he explained that he was hiding her to shield her from consequences, Mikan would accept that as long as it was temporary. The fact that it wouldn't be temporary is where he'd lose her. She'd accuse him of trying to change her, not really loving her as she is, etc etc. Just full on hysterical yelling. I could see, like, her going along with it at first to protect Junko, only to get suspicious that it's going on for so long and confront Yasuke, leading to a truly explosive argument. Because Yasuke knew she wouldn't approve and left out shit just to get her to go along with everything. Oh! I also like to think that Ryouko would remember Mikan as well, and keep asking about her. To which Yasuke deflects everytime, feeling worse by the minute.

Mikan can't really... do anything to oppose this whole thing on her own though. That's why she'd probably go to Mukuro, and they'd have an alliance through most of DR0. Would Mikan actually appear to Ryouko, confusing her with how it seems she's working with Junko? That could be interesting. It could also be interesting that she works in the shadows, but I do like the messiness that comes with Ryouko seeing her working with Junko, feeling like she's been betrayed. Maybe she wants to forget such a thing so much that she never writes it down, and each time is a new betrayal.

But, she would also not be cool with killing Yasuke. And Junko and Mukuro know it. Junko would probably lie after the fact that she only killed him to defend herself - since Yasuke does start choking her. Which... Mikan would have really complicated feelings on. She'd probably comfort Junko about it, though, which is the real kicker.

The whole thing would probably end really messy. If Mikan ever caught on that Junko killed Yasuke for fun, she'd... probably be very unnerved. In this situation, she's built just as much as a bond with Yasuke as Junko. She might just not believe it on its face. She might become scared that Junko would betray her too. I feel like, in a world where Yasuke was a force in Mikan's life from the start, she'd have much more stable attachments, so she wouldn't be quite as obsessed with Junko. (Vs in a scenario where they met later- especially if they met because of Junko, since that would just subconsciously confirm to Mikan that she has all these good things because of Junko, too.) Despite having more time with Junko, I could actually see her as far more sane and stable than her counterpart. Because unlike canon Mikan, she actually did get support when she needed it. (Now if her childhood friend was only Junko, that would be a different story.)

Matsushima already reads as a Greek tragedy, but adding Mikan into it just makes the whole thing even more tragic in this case. (Junko would approve.) But good gosh is the image of tiny Yasuke, Junko, and Mikan eating orange slices that mama Matsuda served them too gosh dang adorable.

[ultimateplaylistmaker]

Jin hating time?

God Jin is just the fucking worst!

Like even removing that hopes peak makes everyone fucking worse WHO JUST FUCKING ABANDONS THEIR DAUGHTER LIKE THAT?! Kirigiri should have been the mastermind just so she could get her revenge what a DICK MOVE, especially because it seems he went no fucking contact and she had to SLEUTH HIM DOWN?? Like DUDE, I get your family kinda sucks BUT YOUR FUCKING DAUGHTER?! "Oh i dont want to be a detective" TAKE YOUR FUCKING DAUGHTER! I DONT CARE IF YOUR GRANDFATHER WANTED TO TRAIN HER LIKE??? FUCKING TAKE HER??? JIN LOVES THE IDEA OF KYOKO, BUT HE DOES NOT LOVE KYOKO, I STAND BY THAT.

AND WHERE IS YOUR WIFE SIR, WE KNOW YOU HAD ONE, BUT WHERE IS SHE?! WHAT DID SHE THINK OF THIS?! DID SHE DIE? DID SHE DIVORCE YOU?

Like he has zero fucking excuse for what he did to Kyoko, an event that seems to have genuinely left her on some level traumatized. He makes no moves to be a part of her life, he makes no attempt to reconnect, the ONLY way for her to get in contact with him was to reveal her detective work and get scouted, which is so fucked? Like dude, I get you've probably been blacklisted from your family, but there had to be SOMETHING you could have done to get in contact with her! Even though you TOTALLY SHOULD HAVE JUST TAKEN HER WITH YOU! We have NO information on why Jin just fucking left her beyond that his grandfather seemed to take an interest in her, we get NO EXPLANATION for this betrayal, for why he COULDN'T take her, it genuinely just seems like he didn't want to.

He thinks about her, he makes her his password, but like...actually interacting with her? Making ANY attempt to reach out? To do ANYTHING? He never does! The only information we really get about their relationship is that even by the time of the tragedy Kyoko despises him still, writing of what an absolute horrible father he is. The game presents that he was still thinking of her in the password, but he doesn't care for the REAL kyoko very much at ALL, she's an idea, a concept, but she's not real to him. I don't think we've ever had a positive emotion or interaction between the two in any material.

The only interaction they have is just him trying to get her to investigate in DR0, an investigation that NEARLY GETS HER KILLED. He directly sends her into an investigation into izuru goddamn kamukura and where the steering committee is hiding him DESPITE KNOWING EXACTLY WHAT IZURU IS. Then when this obviously ends fucking TERRIBLY actively lies to her about everything, then THREATENS HER WHEN SHE SAYS SHE'S GOING TO KEEP INVESTIGATING ON HER OWN WITH ESSENTIALLY MURDER??? "You'll be the next to leave hope's peak academy" DUDE THE PEOPLE YOU JUST SAID "LEFT" WERE THE PEOPLE WHO'S MURDERS YOU JUST COVERED UP. THEN JUSTIFIES IT AS HER OWN GOOD TO KEEP HER AWAY? DUDE? DUDE? DUDE? WHAT THE FUCK? YOU DRAGGED HER INTO THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE!

Thats not even going INTO his absolute FAILURE of being in any way a good headmaster for hopes peak at all, but truly, the way he treats Kyoko is DISGUSTING

[drmedicsgamesurgery]

Are there any direct statements from kodaka himself that dr0 is meant to be read first before going into 2? (Believe it or not, there are some fans who believe zero is no matter what, ultimately unnecessary to the franchise despite being written as essentially the back half of the themes and worldbuilding of not just dr, but ESPECIALLY 2, with the excuse being “it’s side material, it’s a light novel, it did not get an official western release (so it is therefore unimportant.). I’ve seen people think the plot points 0 introduces SPOILS the stuff it brings back to resolve in 2! (Specifically regarding izuru, the steering commite, etc.))

This'll be a long one (and include a dr0 game update):

Let me preface this with the fact I am also one of those people who thinks it does spoil a considerable amount of 2 despite releasing first. I am a long time fan of zero from back when the OG translations were coming out, and read them over 10 yearsish ago now, and am obviously the lead creative director for the Danganronpa Zero fangame.

But let us go through some of (not all because this would be way too long) the details behind your ask.

As far as I have read in multiple interviews there is no explicit statement regarding about reading it before dr2 or after, but i am pretty sure there is for before reading dr3 definitely [needed citation form one of the old dr3 interviews i do not have the link handy]. There are also his comments that the books/anime/manga are canonical and important to the series. (warning spoilers for rain code in this interview too)

As for what I think, personally dr0 and dr2 are the most interchangeable entries of the series. personally I am also in the camp of leaving izuru a mystery before going into 2 as smart people will be going well obviously izuru is just going to be important / be the mastermind of the next game, and it may ruin their enjoyment of that twist. Sometimes prior knowledge can turn off people, though i know some people are in the camp of "actually spoilers enhance my experience" but i do not think that is what you mean.

As for the visual novel version I am creating theres no real good way around having visuals of izuru even as a shadow so it will be required to at least have read dr1 and dr2 prior to it and designed to read definitely before dr3 with hitherto references to other parts of the series as a nod to it all.

As for the plain text novel version either way works really, it depends on what you want to get out of the series yourself, more mysteries by leaving it, or more concrete answers by reading it for less confusion. There is no perfect answer. well the perfect answer is do not read dr0 before dr1 for those weird people that read the series in chronological order but that's a whole other can of worms.

More so I also think dr2 builds the mystery of the reserve course a lot better and not knowing about them lets people speculate on hajime's talent rather than going "i wonder if he is one of those reserve course students mentioned"

As for the steering committee they don't really matter for 2's story at all and are mainly just world building for the schools hierarchy (which i intended to create an essay for but ended up including it in the game script as a prologue interlude when explaining the school so it doesnt just only reuse the same text as dr1s opening.)

That all being said, personally I think it is best to read 0 after 2 and I have more reasons as to why, being considerably familiar by now with the text, but it did come out before dr2 so I cannot fault people for reading it first. but as for my vn version, having it be read after 2 and before 3 lets me be considerably more creative with the games art and I am sure people will agree when it releases. Kodaka considers DR0 one of his best works (I believe he said this on DanganRadio) to which I agree, so making sure the game is a perfect homage to his series has been well on my mind for a long time, as well as the question of when should it be read.

Your opinion is perfectly valid here of wanting to read it before 2, and understandably so considering it came out first, but at the end of the day I think they are pretty interchangeable in order, probably the two most interchangeable things in the series outside of maybe the kizakura drama cds being before or after dr3 as well (did someone ask for a translation for those soon? 👀)

Thanks for reading, hope this gave you some insight as to my thoughts regarding this order. Some people. may know i have my own order guide for Danganronpa but i think i will have to update it soon when everything is fully translated, and it may or may not have some controversial book placements so I may come back in the future with another blog post about series order and my thoughts on it.

Without intending to drag this out further, thanks for asking, hope you all are doing alright - SeriousSeiko

[ultfan]

MY DESPAIR DR3 IDEAS LFG

firstly, i just wanna say that i am basing everything here based of info we get in dr1, dr2 and dr0. i'm just wiping the actual anime itself from my brain. so anime exclusive editions are just gonna be scrubbed. i may be able to fit them in somewhere, but they're not my focus. this is origin story centric.

kick off during the first year of the dr2 cast. i think rather than showing how unified the group is it would actually make more sense if everyone was kinda struggling. obviously some people would form their close bonds, like nekomaru and akane, gundham and sonia, etc. but i don't think it makes sense for the cast to have as close a bond as they do in dr3.

hajime and chiaki were huge pieces when it came to keeping the peace/unity between the members of the dr2 cast during the game. they would not be present in class 77-B. because hajime is in the reserve course and chiaki is an ai.

if their first year of school was all sunshine and rainbows i don't see why they would erase memories of ALL of their time at hope's peak academy.

narratively it makes the most sense for their first year to be setup as to why these people would fall for junko. they shouldn't be having a great time at hope's peak. fuyuhiko's sister is killed, sato is killed, people have health complications, people are dealing with family troubles... even if they try to keep together there is a lot boiling under the surface.

nagito, as a known troublemaker, would 100% fucking make the problems they are facing worse. because on god you know komaeda would tell fuyuhiko to his face that his sister's death was a "stepping stone" and he could overcome it. — he is definitely a disrupter of unity, even if he's not trying to be.

hajime's deal is likely a seemingly disconnected b-plot until the izuru stuff happens (at least if you're watching without any danganronpa context... which would be stupid... but narratively that's how it would look). ——— he's separated from the rest of the cast, probably often witnessing things form the sidelines. the focus on hajime should be on his worsening mental health, going from being excited to be going to hope's peak to learning what it really means to be in the reserve course.

he strikes me as someone who would at least TRY to get involved with the main course students. i think it'd be interesting to see him all hopeful and trying to make ultimate friends or act like he's on the same level as them. only to get completely shut down and rejected by the people he does end up reaching out to.

really use him to show just how poorly reserve course students are treated by the school. the disparity between the two kinds of students — the fact that the reserve course are ONLY there to give hope's peak more funding and nothing else.

highlight how badly he wants to be part of that world. how desperate he is. how he'd be willing to do anything to feel "special." like he's worth something.

yasuke has to be important as the ultimate neurologist. he helped with the memory shit, he's implied to have helped on the kamakura project, and he is also said to have his research used in the neo world program. not including him in all of this would honestly just be a crime. he ties everything together in a neat bow.

given that they're both entering the school in the same year, and nagito got his diagnosis this year too, there is no way he wouldn't see this as fate. he is going to hope's peak at the same time as the ultimate neruologist! that has to be a sign. i can easily see nagito offering up himself to yasuke so he could study his illness and monitor his brain activity. yasuke, who has a past with this kind of disease, would probably be more than willing to as well.

in the middle of the year the school, being impressed with his work, yasuke is reached out in private to assist in the kamakura project. he accepts and gets on it ——— in the background hajime is scouted and accepts to participate out of desperation, not entirely aware of what he's getting into.

enter class 78 — and junko and mukuro — who, thanks to yasuke, are able to easily integrate themselves into the plot and where they need to be.

junko's relationship with yasuke allows her to learn about the kamakura project early on into the school year. she learns about it's progress, it's purpose, and where izuru is being kept (for future reference).

by coincidence — or perhaps thanks to bad luck — she is able to meet nagito through yasuke. this is a guy who's brain doesn't function normally. simply put, he is an incredibly difficult guy to predict/truly understand. i imagine he would interest junko — and his hope fanaticism would be something of note that can be taken advantage of. it is via nagito that junko is able to get an interest in class 77-B and learn about the misfortune they faced last year (when she wasn't here). this will eventually domino into her turning them into ultimate despair. this makes a lot more sense then randomly running into a guy and deciding he's important to the plot, imho.

izuru would get "rescued" by the despair sisters. with a combination of the information they got from yasuke, mukuro's skills as the ultimate soldier, and junko's ultimate analyst ability they are able to avoid trouble and smoothly get to him. this is the real start of her plan.

in dr2 it is said that junko "broke izuru's spirit" — which implied he had a spirit to break. in dr3 he was already dead inside, but i feel like it would make sense if the scientists really tried to make him incredibly loyal to hope's peak and the idea of hope. you know — actually attempt to make the ultimate hope. make that his entire identity.

izuru, incapable of remembering anything that has ever been told to the contrary, is given an entirely different view of the world through junko. izuru, given his little reaction to being on the boat (his excitement at the rocking) strikes me as someone who is surprisingly ignorant and impressionable. which makes sense. they took away all his memories/feelings/personality. and so, when junko gives her philosophy to him, he asks for her to prove it.

he doesn't initially believe her, thanks to how he was created, but then the idea of the first mutual killing game comes up. izuru participates out of sheer curiosity to see where junko is coming from — to see if there is anything at all to this. and given that is the incident that leads to the inevitable fall of hope's peak... it seems to izuru that there is. THAT is what breaks his spirit.

izuru learns that everything he went through, that everything he thought he knew, was a lie. and that the concept that he is meant to embody and put forth into the world isn't... really... anything. "hope" — what is that? it's such a vague idea and it's different for literally every person. it's just an empty promise. there's no hope for someone like him. and there's no hope for this school — or this world. not really.

the events of dr0 happen. most people actually know that ryoko is junko and that she lost her memories (at least class 78 and people who knew her beforehand were aware) — and we know the school is also covering shit up too. izuru goes into hiding. the reserve course students start rioting. kyoko goes to investigate the killings of the student council and is eventually told to stop by her dad (because if she got any further she'd learn about things the school couldn't risk getting out). mukuro tests out her junko disguise here and there, but probably not in public often (mostly just with ryoko). and yasuke is killed, his death covered up by the school.

if kyoko is able to investigate, i think it is logical that nagito also investigates. i mean, his beloved symbols of hope are dying! he is pretty close to kyoko's levels of deduction in dr2, often having solved the cases before everyone else and just watching things progress as he drip feeds hints. i have no doubt kyoko would've been able to uncover everything if she wasn't stopped, but nagito also has an advantage: knowing yasuke.

he would know yasuke wouldn't suddenly drop out and stop their research — he's the ultimate neurologist, after all. it's also likely that he knew he was treating junko (ryoko) for a while. and if he were to investigate his lab/dorm he could be able to find the research papers on memory that were stolen by the despair sisters for their future plans.

with this knowledge, as well as seeing that junko SUDDENLY regained her memories after yasuke's disappearance, i think it's reasonable for him to confront them and figure out what they're doing.

junko takes advantage of the kind of person nagito is. we know from monokuma's behavior in dr2 that it seems he really trusts nagito to go above and beyond when given the opportunity to challenge his symbols of hope. monokuma was supportive of komaeda in the first killing and even actively helped him a little bit when it came to setting things up for the investigation (hajime even mentioned it seemed like nagito had trained monokuma). and i've already talked about how the final dead room's highest difficult setting was likely made specifically with komaeda in mind — knowing he would do something extreme upon finding out about their identities of ultimate despiar.

what takes place is a proposed battle against hope and despair. junko would know enough about nagito from yasuke to know about his love of hope, as well as his abberant behavior. and, with mukuro around, she's not in danger if she spills some stuff to nagito. if he threatens to spill things before they're ready to be spilled, he'd get killed. luckily, nagito is 100% the kind of person to side with his enemies.

this school and the ultimates here are basically komaeda's coping mechanism. he believes that hope can overcome any despiar. and so he fully believes junko's plans will fall flat and that the symbols of hope will easily overcome her despair and be stronger for it. junko is able to egg him on — get him to prove it  — and he agrees to help her spread her despair just to prove her wrong. he doesn't believe his assistance will do much. because he believes himself inconsequential and irrelevant.

it is through nagito that junko is able to learn more personal details of class 77-B, and through him that she is able to manipulate them directly and indirectly. she is able to break each of them down one by one — really dig in and target them in ways that would break them specifically. and eventually brainwash them (in the culty sense, not the mind control sense) into accepting her despair mindset.

junko works a lot like a cult leader in my mind. she is able to perfectly analyze and predict others, and has great charisma. after breaking them down she could easily offer them despair to give them some "meaning" back into their life. and we know from mikan and nagito that "just despair" isn't always the reason for the members of ult despair to do what they do. mikan was doing it out of love and devotion for junko, for example.

as nagito sees each of his classmates fall over to junko's side and begin to add fuel to the fire of the tragedy, he starts getting a little nervous. but he managed to convince himself that they were just surprisingly weak in the end, and holds onto hope that the school itself and the majority of students would be fine. unfortunately, that's not the case.

the new members of ultimate despair manage to push the reserve course students over the edge — and start pushing the world towards the edge as well — leading to the mass suicide and the complete collapse of hope's peak. class 78 being "coincidentally" the only class to survive. this would end up getting nagito fully despair-pilled, even if he is still fighting for hope. and it would end with all members of ultimate despair (aside from mukuro and junko, who agree to be locked up in the remains of hope's peak) going somewhat into hiding to spread despair from the shadows (i say in hiding because we know that they didn't know the identities of the remnants, and didn't even know there were 15 other survivors).

i imagine part of junko's motivation for getting all these extra members into ultimate despair was to ensure that things wouldn't die down in the outside world without her directly involved. and, of course, to get help with the things she needed help with (building monokuma, for example).

EXTRA STUFF I WAS VAGUE ABOUT

how junko would get each individual member of ult despair is up in the air. i have nagito and izuru clear in my mind because i think it makes the sense for them to be the most directly involved in the plot, given their overall significance in the series. but i do have some ideas:

she probably preyed on maihiru's guilt involving the twliight syndrome murder case.

mikan is obvious — she preyed on her need for love/acceptance and gave it to her.

fuyuhiko and peko were probably targeted together, preying on the death of his sister and peko's role as a tool.

took advantage of ibuki's loneliness after leaving her girlband.

etc etc etc.

however she did do it for each of them, i believe it was a matter of ensuring they got to their lowest point (probably even with nagito's help, given his skills of manipulation and complete willingness to be a fall guy), and then swooping them in and being the person that they need in that moment. her true colors probably only really being seen/felt by the time they were all despair-pilled and it was too late for them.

at some point treating each other horribly is part being ultimate despair, yeah? like... kind words aren't used between them. it's similar to mukuro in danganronpa if ——— when she realized junko is cutting her off because she's being super kind and speaking about how much she loves her. for ultimate despair verbal abuse becomes a love language, it feels. hence why i think junko was pretty mean to the remaining remnants in the last dr2 trial. that's just how they interact! they make fun of each other, they're mean, they're abusive. so they can feel despair. because that's all they have at that point.

[penguwastaken]

yo i was just goin through your blog and this post in particular stood out to me https://www.tumblr.com/penguwastaken/749651172845092864/junko-never-lied-in-chapter-6-of-danganronpa?source=share the one about junko lying about izuru killing the student council members. and i just have to say... it literally says in the text you cited that izuru was there... "Enoshima used the Old School Building due to its being closed off, locked the Student Council and Ultimate Hope inside, and caused them to kill each other utilizing various tricks. Scattering weapons, threatening to kill everyone if a murder didn't occur, murdering in plain sight to demonstrate... and so on. She was trying to make them doube each other, to kill each other... it was almost as though she wanted to experiment. She is... truly messed up..." izuru, the ultimate hope, was locked in there with them and junko made both him and the student council members kill each other. "made them to kill each other" — as in everyone locked inside. obviously izuru would've won, being the ultimate hope/having literally every talent. hence why it's a no-brainer he could've killed all the student council members. dr0 and dr2 support the same idea. given dr0 came out right before dr2 it's pretty clear to me the intention of junko's line here is to imply there was a full sweep on izuru's side — he managed to take all of them down effortlessly. this also kinda lines up with junko's line in dr2 about "breaking izuru's spirit" imho. not saying junko never lies but this was lowkey a bad example as it doesn't contradict earlier evidence at all. dr0 and dr2 line up a bit better in this specific case than dr3 does for me (not hate or anything i just wanted to point it out bc it's been eating at me. no shame in liking dr3 either like pop off but i was just itching to point this out)

Not really sure what the issue is here, like, at all.

In Danganronpa Zero, Yasuke claims that that Izuru was locked in with the rest of the student council and Junko made them kill each other. Yasuke doesn't say Junko made Izuru kill the student council, he says that it was a mutual killing.

There are also multiple scenes in Danganronpa Zero where they describe the student council killing each other and not Izuru killing everyone. They even directly say: "the Tragedy of Hope’s Peak wasn’t simply a mass murder."

Like let's look at this specific scene for example:

In this scene, we see someone in a school uniform attacking another person. "But Pengu, this person could technically be Izuru because he has a uniform." Well unfortunately, that's also wrong. Because immediately after...

...we see that man in the student uniform get killed by another person. And then we witness a brawl between several people take place. Obviously this paints a very clear picture that Izuru did not do the killing on his own.

I'm not really sure how you can assume Izuru killed the entire student council when the murder was literally stated to have not been a mass murder, was described as a mutual killing, and we literally see them kill each other.

The most we get to Izuru being a mass murderer is Soshun telling Yasuke that Izuru was the culprit. However this is:

Before Yasuke learns of the Mutual Killing

Because Soshun was implied to have been hiding and just saw Izuru

In fact, this is something Danganronpa 3 further addresses. When we meet Soshun and the rest of the student council in the anime, they all believe that friends wouldn't kill friends, easily explaining why Soshun would think Izuru did it.

But the point is from Danganronpa Zero alone, we factually know that Izuru was not the sole killer of the Student Council. How many people he did kill or whether he killed anybody at all is left vague, all we know is that he was there and suffered only a minor injury.

Which brings us back to the claim Junko makes in Danganronpa 2.

Now that we've literally seen the student council kill each other, there is no doubt that this is just blatantly untrue.

So yes, in this instance, Junko lied without a doubt. Hopefully this cleared any confusion.

[fala-alfredo-pasta]

On the topic of Nagito resenting Izuru, I actually think it could go beyond that. Something that I'm not totally convinced about is none of Class 77 having any hard feelings towards Hajime. While them loving him inside the simulation makes perfect sense, would that really carry over smoothly once they were back out? Because his actions led to both them being brainwashed and for their deprogramming session being sabotaged in the first place. And to add insult to injury, he can take some solace in feeling less "tainted" than they are. Izuru had more autonomy and self-control during the Tragedy, while they were reduced to vicious idiots acting on whatever violent impulse came to them. Like with Sonia, she has to live with being known to the world as the tyrant queen who brought her homeland to ruin (though I personally like to headcanon that Novoselic is recovering). Meanwhile for the few people who are aware of a 15th Remnant, Hajime is "that one other dude with the long hair that we're not even sure killed that many people". I mean if I came out of the NWP with all that mental (and possibly physical) baggage, and the dude in our group who was most responsible for the rest of us becoming so fucked up was conversely the least guilty of us AND got handed a thousand super-talents...well I think I'd be a wee bit resentful and jealous. And going back to Nagito, it also seems a bit unrealistic to me that in most fanfics there doesn't seem to be any resistance from him to accepting medical aid from Hajime. Or dismay at discovering it was done while he was in a coma. Because on top of him probably not feeling like he'd want to prolong his life, accepting that kind of aid from the former Izuru would probably feel kind of infantilizing to be honest. Dude gets handed everything you ever wanted including a better version of your luck, he betrays Hope's Peak because he's bored, does absolutely nothing while someone dear to you is murdered and you and your classmates get brainwashed, sets things up so that your attempted suicide will actually result in you getting possessed by your nemesis...and now you're just meant to let him assert the power of a doctor over you and welcome him as your savior? I just think there'd probably need to be a moment where Nagito is convinced to accept treatment, rather than it being done to him without his consent. Make him feel assured that he has agency and control over his own body, and that continuing to live was his own choice. Because otherwise I think it could get really nasty. " I don't care that you're the most talented man alive. Even if I'd wanted to live, you, of all people on this planet, YOU are the last human being on Earth that I would want help from."

Ooo this be a spicy take! But some very good points! First off, sorry for taking so long to reply to this question it just this got me back into my Dangan theorist mode, and I wanted to replay all of Chapter 0/6 as well as read a summary of Zero in order to re-examine how the game and novel present Izuru Kamukura.

I’ll try my best not to derail this because Izuru’s whole existence and backstory is just…..such a brain worm for me that I can speculate on for hours. There’s just so much we don’t truly know if we’re basing this solely on the games (which I usually prefer to do seeing as the anime is filled with contradictions). But, doing so would mean having to excuse his involvement (or lack of) in preventing Chiaki’s murder and class 77’s brainwashing since there’s nothing within the games that indicates such things happening since even within game it flat out states Junko manipulated her high power connections (ie: the Ultimates), one by one and not in a batch.

She really only used video footage of explicit killing to manipulate the Reserve Course into rioting (Dr0), the rest of the world into more despair (Dr1) and as a way to taunt the Future Foundation (SDR2). Hell, technically, there is no proof that Chiaki actually existed in real life if we’re going only by the games too. That was something canonized by the anime.

Well okay. There may be ONE thing in the second game that can potentially confirm Chiaki’s existence in the real world and that’s her presence being listed in the book Nagito got with everyone's info. However, this was given to him by Monokuma and Nagito did destroy any of the information regarding his classmates time in and out of  school that could have very well revealed that Chiaki wasn’t ever there—but I digress and this aint about Chiaki rn this is about Izuru.

What we do know of him through the game is that he sees himself as being used by Junko and thus brought in a flash drive with her AI to insert into the Neo World Program as a virus so he could use her instead. This feels contradictory though, if the end result would be Junko taking over all their bodies. You can’t even argue that he did it so Hajime could override his present self and come back because that would have happened regardless (that was literally what was SUPPOSED to happen). So then why bring Junko back? How was he using her in that regard? Well, the only thing I can think of is that he pretty much already knew how it was all going to end, and that creating a killing game was the only way to ensure everyone stayed alive whilst retaining their old memories thus decreasing the chance of them falling back into Ultimate Despair when re-awakened and in a way saying “fuck you” to Junko’s despair and destroying the last remnants of her both in name and digitally.

Cool beans. He still lied to them all though. Junko states that each of them willingly went into the program knowing well that her virus was going to force them into a killing game to cause despair. Izuru, though, didn’t tell them his whole plan or how it was truly going to end, otherwise no one would have joined. And that’s not necessarily bad–he was doing it for their own good! Except, well, there’s not conclusive proof that he did so for their sake (and since we don’t know if Chiaki existed irl we don’t know if he did this for her). Also given how indifferent he is in-game, the fact that his surgery left him emotionally distant, and his lack of connection with class 77, well it’d be easier to believe that Izuru did this all purely out of self interest in a way to get “revenge” at Junko and perhaps alleviate his boredom.

Now, present Hajime WOULD have an emotional investment in class 77 and it’s that reason he sticks around to help them recover. But, honestly, I agree that the ex-remnants would take some time to come around to fully trusting him again because remember: they ARE still recovering from despair. It would not be surprising if their residual remnant emotions feel betrayed by him for lying to them and essentially killing off Junko for good. Add in their in-game memories conflicting with their past memories every time they see Hajime and he’s not quite the same Hajime they befriended thus reminding them that he’s also  that guy who just randomly showed up one day then manipulated them into a scheme for seemingly his own self interest, yeeeah it might take them a while before being buddy buddy with him.

Though they will eventually, but let’s focus on Nagito for a bit because he’d be the absolute last person to come around in fully trusting Hajime/Izuru. Because you see, while it was stated that the remnants agreed to be part of the killing game, we know for a fact that not ALL of them did so. And we know this because of chapter 0. In it, we see Nagito meeting Izuru for the first time (as Nagito literally says he’s never seen Izuru before), thus Izuru has not been in contact with Nagito to inform him of the plan (which actually brings into question WHY Nagito is even there/agreed to re-programming but that’s a theory for another day). We also see Nagito being very confused about Izuru’s talking about his flash drive with Junko’s AI in it. And, although he doesn’t fully understand what Izuru is planning, what he takes from it is that he’ll be able to see Junko again and get the chance of killing her himself. Izuru does not correct him or inform him of anything else. Meaning, Nagito knows absolutely nothing of the killing game he unknowingly signed up for nor of the possibility of his body being taken over by Junko.

In other words: NAGITO DID NOT CONSENT TO THIS AT ALL.

Unlike his classmates who can forgive Hajime’s actions as Izuru because yeah technically they DID agree to it, Nagito was not even informed much less had the option to say yes. You can argue that Izuru did so intentionally knowing that Nagito’s strange half-remnant state and intense resentment towards despair and Junko would have made him too much of a risk to the plan that is was better to leave him in the dark, but it still doesn’t change the fact that Nagito didn’t get a choice. Add in our previous discussion of why Nagito would be resentful towards Izuru because of all his gifted talents along with this and I’d say yeah, Nagito wouldn’t be all that welcoming toward accepting Hajime’s help post game.

This doesn’t even add in your note on pro-longing his life without his input or anything from the anime, so if Chiaki’s death was actually used as a trigger for class 77 and Izuru could have done something about it–YEAH that’s going to make the resentment exponentially worse.

So your last tidbit of Nagito getting a chance to decide something for himself just hits so strongly given he never got the chance to do so before. It’s the least he deserves now.

[aparticularbandit]

Jin Kirigiri is considered talentless by the Kirigiri family (canon), so he didn't just not want to be a detective - he's also not good at it (canon).

Jin left Kyoko, who did have detective talent, behind to be trained by her grandfather, even though he hates detectives and wants nothing to do with him (canon).

Jin had to work up the chain at Hope's Peak, with a lot of different clearances and etc. as he went (canon).

Alternate interpretation of Jin that would make me like him better:

What if Jin was just going deep undercover at Hope's Peak?

Like he knows he is a shit detective, and maybe this is one of those things he can't ask for help on, so he's just. going after Hope's Peak on his own, trying to get as much information as he can. And he didn't take Kyoko with him because that would put her at risk (particularly from the Steering Committee, if they realized what he was doing).

When he hired Kyoko in DR0, it was to find Izuru (canon) - maybe he didn't know that Izuru existed prior to that. Maybe it's all on the Steering Committee. He certainly didn't like all of the cover up that they were doing (canon) but couldn't stand against them, even though he very clearly wanted to do so. Taking Kyoko off the case with threats of expulsion were probably tied into realizing all of the very definitely murder and danger associated with finding him - and the danger Kyoko herself got into while on the case. (Kyoko staying alive is more important to him than finding Izuru.)

The fact that Chisa figured out everything in a matter of, what, two years? (and Junko figured it out in a matter of, like, DAYS, but she's Junko, so that's like Spiders Georg adn should not be counted) while Jin has been deep undercover is just more proof that he really does suck as a detective. But also as the headmaster - as someone trying to go through the ranks to find things out - he's being thorough and careful and exact, which Chisa is very much not. And he has significantly more responsibility, especially after the Reserve Course got added in.

So, like...I still don't like him, but if I interpret him this way, he's less. sucky. Sort of.

[jacksmusesdrv3]

Before I say what I want to say, I want to be clear that I have a dissociative disorder and a system, which is where I'm coming from with this.

The more I've thought about the monokubs as alters and being connected to kokichi I realize it makes more sense for him to have a dissociative disorder than for him...not to...

He blatantly shows us that he's able to heavily compartmentalize his emotions and "switch" them on and off seemingly instantly. You don't have that ability without having some level of a dissociative disorder, regardless of if he's part of a system.

I'm currently watching another let's play as it's being posted so if you'd like to hear my thoughts on this as I rewatch the game under this lens I'll happily keep notes and share periodically!

(short one gaming on YT, def recommend checking them out bc they usually play games as a duo where one of them is familiar with the game and the other isn't which leads to a lot of interesting moments, and both of them work professionally on games and are imo also good voice actors for the let's plays)

Oops- before I forget again, just gonna drop these here for you!

[A note for clarity: insofar as my theory of the Kubs I don't mean the Kubs are literally alters but in a sense of compartmentalised personality bits (like Shiro/Kurokuma) and the 'Kokichi' in my case would be Monokuma (whom the Kubs are directly related to)]

In DR world we've seen 'big brain talents' reach quite an extreme. Junko's alone would be downright impossible in our reality, and could cause its own variation of brain-mess like a cognitive overload, which for her involved a lot of 'personality switching'. That's just me spitballing anyway- cognition-whatsits involved with supernatural talents is something I like to crack at now and then (I forget if they addressed this lore in DR0...), but if Ouma (who we see ingame I mean) theoretically does not have a talent of that sort you could say he has a dissociation situation instead :0

Anyway this is interesting! I normally see psych theories focused on his lying rather than his emotions in specific. Thank you for sharing, feel free to send more at me if you want!

[2stregafangirl]

Name: Junya Enoshima or Junya Ikusaba ( Junya in UDG and DR3)

Gender: Male

Birthday: December 24

Age: 17 ( THH] 19 [UDG)

Zodiac sign: Capricorn

Talent: ultimate thaumaturge prowess/ SHSL ultimate thaumaturge prowess

Talent explanation: like his twin sister Junko who he more closely resembles he has crazy analysis and prediction skills, the catch is Junya’s predictions have the chance to be wrong/ incorrect but when Junya’s predictions are right they work miracles, he also uses his amazing analytical and prediction skills for good instead of evil unlike his sister Junko.

Personality: Junya is very snarky and clever, he sometimes like to jab at others passive aggressively but he means well, he tends to sometimes be too full of himself when his predictions are correct and has a smug expression on his face but he isn’t arrogant, he actually does care for the other students ( Especially Toko and Togami) and wants them to make it out alive.

Likes: rabbits plushies old-school video games

Puzzles writing poetry ranting about philosophy

Dislikes: Bears ( especially Monokuma) blood being lied to or manipulated traps

History: Junya was enrolled into Hope’s peak as the Ultimate Thaumaturge Prowess and joined the DR1 class, he had an okay childhood as the younger brother of Junko and Mukuro though he was the only one who remained when Junko and Mukuro ran away. for awhile at Hope’s peak Junya was away because Mukuro sent him some tickets for a trip in Europe while the DR0 plot went down, Junya got especially close to Toko and Togami at Hope’s Peak being able to break through Toko’s self depreciative and meek nature and Togami’s arrogant and entitled nature and the two of them entered a polycule and after the school went on lockdown during the tragedy Junko wiped Junya’s memories of Mukuro so it would be easier for mukuro to disguise as Junko.

Once Mukuro!Junko gets executed Junya screams out for her and throughout THH he starts to regain his memories of Mukuro and rekindles his Toko’s and Togami’s relationship becoming a polycule once more, after finding out the truth in chapter 6 Junya is rightfully pissed off and infuriated about Junko having Mukuro killed and he vows to bring Junko despair by joining the side of Hope himself and seeing her plans come crashing down on her, after Junko executes herself Junya changes his last name to Ikusaba to honor Mukuro who’s life was cut short and to distinguish himself from Junko. In ultra despair girls he goes to Towa city to help Toko and Komaru wielding a violin hacking axe which has the same powers as Komaru’s megaphone but a axe with a piano theme.

[aparticularbandit]

I don't think Junko making it that far in her execution is a feat of durability so much as it is her Ultimate Analyst ability at work. She saw how the executions were implemented and thus how to best them. (Part of which involved not being tied down or being immobile, as the others usually were.)

I also think it's particularly important that the one she did not survive is the one Makoto did. He survived by Luck. Junko has no luck and no one left at Hope's Peak who would step in to save her. Surviving the compactor relies on that. (Or something else she couldn't analyze by seeing the execution successfully completed.)

It's also telling that (I think, if I remember and read the scene correctly) each execution seems to be taking on a different Junko persona. (I could be wrong here, but that's how I usually read it.)

DR0 did a good job of Junko's abilities as Ryoko in the Madarai fights. She can win one over them through analysis. She can dodge, etc. But she is also super flimsy and very easily killable. Which is why the harder those got, the more often Mukuro showed up to save her. (Particularly at the end, when there were multiple of the Madarai all together. Ryoko could not have won; Mukuro was necessary. Debatable whether Junko, with her memories intact, would have had a hard time.)

Frieren actually has a couple of characters who fill Junko's abilities really well (one of whom I noticed during show and one I didn't realize until this post): Linie, a demon who can mimic fight styles after observing them but doesn't have the strength to execute them to the same effect as their originator, and Übel, a mage who can learn any spell that another mage does but only by empathising with them (and also she is introduced as being probably likely evil. She has the Junko vibes in a way that Linie, a demon who is actually evil, just does not).

Do you think Junko would be pretty durable? Considering how far she made it through her Execution marathon without getting a scratch, when the others were killed by just one of them. We also have the hydraulic press at the end, which since the Remnants were able to get her body parts after her death, meant that her corpse still kept most of its form, meaning that the press probably only snapped her neck.

From a Versus Debate perspective, where everything gets taken super-literally and extrapolated into the most powerful possible depiction of the character? Yes. Absolutely. All of the executions Junko undergoes and is left no worse for wear because of would need to be interpreted as "durability feats".

Yes, it's ridiculous. But it's no more ridiculous than concluding that Link from Legend of Zelda is always moving faster-than-light in gameplay because he can evade Beamos and block shots from Guardians.

From a writing perspective, I'd say no, probably not. I would not write Junko as being able to tank 17 bullets to the face while laughing maniacally. Junko's execution wasn't meant to be a "feat". It was meant to be a cathartic finale, with the villain undergoing all of the executions in sequence that the other characters had to experience. She was able to survive them until the end because that's what the extremely stylistic and hyperbolic scene required of her.

As a character in day-to-day life, Junko's superhuman abilities are strictly mental; She absorbs information at an insane rate and can instantly memorize skills and abilities by seeing them performed once. She's also extremely intelligent and calculating.

I've talked a bit about this before, that Junko for instance probably has Ultimate Martial Arts and Ultimate Swordsmanship and Ultimate Cooking and all of that in her skillset now from time spent with the people who have those abilities. But she doesn't have the physique. She has a spindly supermodel body.

So she can probably throw punches like Sakura Ogami. But her punches wouldn't hit with the force of Sakura Ogami's slab-of-beef biceps.

From a writing perspective, Junko would probably have the physical limitations of any ordinary human. But. Like. An ordinary human as defined by this psychopop world of batshit anime physics.

Basically Fuhrer King Bradley from Fullmetal Alchemist mixed with Marvel's Taskmaster, is how I would describe her abilities.

[princescar]

Thinking about how tf did Nagito knew about Ryoko.

He never canonically meets her, and we never hear or see him and Matsuda meet (ik he has dementia and thats Matsudas specialty, but he has never made a refrence to his treatment, let alone that matsuda is his doctor, which is weird bc chihiro makes a refrence to him and hes refrenced on hajimes page of the artbook). Also he includes the a Madarai brother chilling with them.

But then i think about the dr0 refrences he makes in sdr2.

one of his loved gifts is ryoko's notebook. Damaged, of course, but hes the only one who loves it, nobody even likes it (Not even Mikan). But he also makes a comment during a FTE that hes been reading a novel where a highschool girl is caught up in a serial killer case, but turned out to be the killer in the end. Which sounds alot like Dr0.

Which makes me think, did he read Ryoko's Notebook when Junko died?

She does keep the notebook, stated on the last chapter of Dr0. So she would still have it, and Nagito did go to the school for her hand, so he could’ve easily gotten it. He could’ve then read it, knowing what had happened and learning about Ryoko and Yasuke. Also why he includes the Madarai brother when there would be no connection outside of dr0.

[rarepairronpa]

I can't even describe to you how much I love Junko x Celeste x Sonia (normalise shipping your favs with your favs!!). My toxic girls, my emotionally unavailable girls.

I read your Celeshima fic before and I must say that it fits perfectly with their dynamic I have in mind. How Celeste would definitely see and understand Junko for who she is and she wouldn't wish for Junko being any different, nor would she want to "fix" her, but only wanting to join, to rule with Junko in her quest for despair. But with Junko being Junko, she knows Celeste wants that, so she purposefully doesn't let Celeste join in.

Yet, yet!! She lets Sonia in, despite the princess being the one who is much more likely to oppose Junko's extreme ideals (at least not without a lot of manipulation on Junko's end), rather than Celeste herself. It's ironic, really.

And yes, you were so right about Junko breeding resentment into Sonia. I could also see Junko doing the exact same to Celeste, about how ironic it is that the "goody-two-shoes" can join in her despair, and not the one with the same dubious morals as Junko's. Because to Junko, what is love without a teeny tiny bit of manipulation and gaslighting lol

Normalize shipping your faves! That's how I landed on Kaede/Mikan and honestly, it's just fun. Who doesn't like to imagine their favorite characters interacting?

And ah, you read that? That one's one of my older ones. I'm a little embarrassed, wrote that one back in high school, aha. I'm glad you liked it though! I haven't actually gone back to read any of my older works from like, 2018 and older, so not sure how good they are. I at least hope I've improved in the years I've been writing, but definitely doesn't mean my old work is bad. And yeah! Some Junko ships are fun because you have characters attempting to fix her (and usually getting dragged down themselves in the process) but other Junko fics are fun because, like. You just want to see evil partners being the worst. I imagine that's also the appeal of Byakuya/Junko, lol.

And you're totally right! Very ironic that Sonia who would initially be against what Junko stands for is who she gets to her side, but Celestia, who's morals are already loose, is rejected the spot as her queen. Very much in line with Junko trying to cause maximum despair- where she does what you'd hate the most. Celestia would love the rule with her, so she doesn't get to; Sonia would hate what she'd become and so that's what she gets, too. This is basically what I think Junko does in SDR2 and DR1; in SDR2, it would hurt the class most to think she never loved them, that they sacrificed so much of their lives to someone who doesn't care. That's a big betrayal to them, that hurts more than if she actually did love them. So she tells them she never loved them. In DR1, however... the thought that she loved them and did this to them anyways hurts more. The thought that they loved her, and she loved them, and she still did this... The fact that there's love there is in and of itself a betrayal. It feels like it too, right? Like a betrayal to all their dead friends, that they ever loved someone who did this to them. Junko is a monster in their heads- that she loves them... that hurts. That makes them feel like they're betraying their friends by that love existing. Like they've betrayed themselves. Which is exactly why she tells them she did love them. So- personally, I tend to think Junko in both these scenes was just saying what would cause the most upset. Which means I think it's perfectly valid to headcanon the idea that... maybe she did care about the SDR2 gang. I mean, she does the same thing to Yasuke Matsuda, right? She loves him, that's a fact, we know that from her narration in DR0... and yet, when he lays dying, she tells him she never cared about him from the beginning, that she was only using him. Because he dedicated so much to her, that's what would cause him the most despair. Just like the SDR2 cast. Considering lying about never caring to send her loved ones into despair is something it's established Junko just does, it's perfectly reasonable to wonder if she was lying to the SDR2 gang, too.

So, with that headcanon considered... I do think it's well within Junko's characterization to deny both Sonia and Celestia what they originally wanted, if that makes sense? To have such different approaches with them, but it coming from the same place. I think Junko really likes her irony, because irony can hurt.

I could totally see her breeding resentment in Celestia, too. The thing about Junko, imo, is that she isolates you from your genuine bonds, and only reunites you under her banner. So, like. She takes your relationships from you, makes both parties in the relationship focus on her, and then reunites you through that adoration of her. She wants the only thing you have in common, that you care about, to be her. She wants your other relationships to just be extentions of her. So breeding resentments on both sides of this relationship? Very in character. Especially since that root of resentment is tied up in attention from her - very in character thing to do.

And yeah lol. No one's doing love with manipulation and gaslighting quite like Junko. Very true.

[junko-enoshima-in-dark-souls]

around a year ago, this guy told me a sentence i hated: 'junko enoshima is the most hopeful character'

and even though he proceeded to go off on the stupidest reasonings about it, how 'zetsubou' doesn't even mean despair but, uh. 'socially unacceptable behavior' and apparently homosexuality falls under 'zetsubou', and also how 'hope' in its 'PURE, UNCORRUPTED' meaning should just mean 'the thing driving determination'

so really, it was nonsense. but i think there's a kernel of truth to the last bit. she has a lot of determination. and in a way, a strong self-preservation instinct

she's gone through so much bullshit. her entire childhood, which can be easily inferred from ultra despair girls and dr0. being abandoned by the one person that stuck with her through all of that, escaping, being licorne, going through all that shit, putting her own self through the fashion industry to stand on the fucking top of it

she's gone through so much bullshit. she's pushed on, and on, and on, working to better her life, survive, exist

and it still. all. sucks.

she hates every bit of it. she hates how she'll wake up tomorrow, and be fine. be alive. because she'll continue existing in this world of hope that constantly drives her to the brink of self-destruction through insisting on values like forgiveness and love and kindness and hope

and no one has ever forgiven her, she will never forgive her countless abusers, she has been abandoned by love over and over, she has never received kindness, she has never once been helped by hope

and it's all dull. dull. boring. she'll wake up tomorrow and be fine. she'll wake up tomorrow and continue suffering this dull, boring feeling of nothing, not even permitted to resent the world around her

and you have two paths here. you have a path where you fight, fight even more, for a world where you can exist like you want to, or a path towards self-destruction

and filled with determination, she chooses the latter

she could end it all there and then, of course, but she doesn't

because there won't be either even a moment of catharsis, and in all likelihood, really, she won't be able to push the knife into her heart at the last moment

and most importantly, the whole world will continue being this disgustingly boring shade of hope

'boring' isn't even the right word. something much stronger. like 'despise' compared to 'hate' compared to 'dislike'

but that's the thing! no matter what, she still hangs onto it. and it hurts her that she does. she sees her sister, back with her, doing her best to do everything to make up for the hurt she caused her, and she hates it, because it feels like just another reminder that she's never going to just exist as a normal human, but something to be fixed, made better, and it frustrates, because she wanted her sister, her one person in the world, to maybe be someone who understands her, but she doesn't, not in the way junko wants

but she still clings to her. she still spends the entirety of chapter 5 essentially crytyping her way through the trial because she's so damn full of despair at killing her. because she wants to feel like caring, loving, is not going to hurt her, but it does, maybe as a self-fulfilling prophecy to a degree, and so she does everything to get rid of it, killing her own most beloved sister

and that's the thing! look at what she does to get to the end of chapter 6, the end of her

she kills every person she cares for, or makes them hate her. to remove every little bit of hope she could possibly have

she kills mukuro, she kills ryoko, she kills y*suke (piece of shit, bye, will never be missed, bye), she kills chiaki, she removes herself from her adoptive children (out of all the things she's terrible for, she's a good mom. fight me.), from the world, and makes every one of her friends either feel nothing but hatred for her, or drives them to the same love of despair she has

and she only finally ends it all when they all have condemned her to death. even makoto can only muster the weakest opposition to her going through with it

where am i going with this?

my point is, hope will never save junko. it's the thing that drives her to despair, in the first place

but she still cares. she still really cares. just look at how she interacts with kyoko. these are childhood friends (licorne). she cares so deeply. mukuro, ryoko - even though she doesn't even realise that's what it is, in this case, mikan, her entire class

she projects so hard onto izuru because she hopes against hope itself that maybe, finally, she'll have someone to call community, because fundamentally, even though she cares for so many people, she feels completely outcast from them all, because ultimately, unlike her, they're all saved by hope. not big H Hope from kibougamine, strictly, because that fucking sucks and i could make a whole other rant about it, but hope, in some form

and she's not. in a way, the apocalypse is her rebellion against life

so how do you get junko out of this endless spiral of destruction?

you jump right in there with her, if you ask me. show her she does have community. that the deep, indescribable boredom and dissatisfaction she has with the existence of a tomorrow is not something she's alone in. and then, maybe, you'll instead build a better today together

i feel like i didn't exactly get what i wanted across but there that's a junko rant while i continue to ignore the existence of my python notebook

[penguwastaken]

Ok so... those 'discrepencies' are pretty simple issues, tbh. One, that the events of dr2 were being watched through cameras, and camera data is something that can be saved and hijacked. Two, that survivors obviously exist and at this moment in time, memory extraction was being worked on in dr0. Three, Makoto explicitly said '...as long as they remain here' during that monologue, which is easily a circumstance subject to change, and besides, he is speaking from his heart more than an absolute fact from the narrator who knows everything. As for Dr3's events, even if they weren't watched and recorded, Makoto's memory could have been extracted in the future and that memory could be saved, not to mention a covering up can be undone from a high enough level.

Camera data of the DR2 killing game

Nothing implies any data was preserved or even existed in the first place. Just because events are being recorded live doesn't mean they're being saved or stored, and nothing in the game implies such. Considering Danganronpa 2 literally ends with them saying nobody will ever know about what happened, I think it's pretty obvious there's no archives or footage. This isn't even mentioning how Makoto intentionally kept the killing game a secret and even ends Danganronpa 2 saying they're going to cover everything up. Why would any footage exist?

And even if such footage existed, surely future foundation would have gotten it for Makoto's trial, but they didn't. Why? Because it didn't exist. They had to hold a trial specifically because they didn't know what Makoto was doing.

2. "Memory extraction"

...does not exist in Danganronpa Zero. There is no memory of memory extraction in Danganronpa Zero. The closest I could find was this quote from Yasuke.

"In the future, we might even be able to treat memories like we do data on a hard drive― creating devices to back them up or destroy select parts of them freely. Actually, there’s already research going on for that abroad. By suppressing the enzyme ‘kinase M zeta’, they were able to erase the long-term memory of lab rats."

Firstly, the thing he claims is currently being researched is erasing memories. Obviously, this is something we already know exists in Danganronpa.

Secondly, his comment about some day being able to treat memories like data is not only entirely speculatory, it's also clearly referring to the distant future. Nothing implies this technology ever existed at any point or was ever complete and it's no different from saying "one day we'll have flying cars," and even then it still doesn't make mention of extracting memories.

However, Danganronpa 3 does mention images were taken from the Remnants of Despair to create the AI Chiaki, which is an example of memory extraction, but not from Danganronpa Zero. And even then it's kept vague about how it works, but I'll give you that (though the rest of your argument falls apart later)

3. "...as long as they remain here"

Danganronpa 3 ends with the Remnants of Despair accepting the burden of despair and isolating themselves from the rest of the world. Whether or not you think they stay on Jabberwock Island or they travel the world saving people, they are in no position to ever tell anyone about the events of the killing game, especially since all of them have chosen to move forward from it.

Makoto is speaking from the heart because he knows them. They chose to move forward, and as a result the events of the killing game will forever stay in the past.

4. Makoto's memory could have been extracted in the future or the covering up could be undone

We see footage from the killing game, footage that would absolutely not exist if the events truly happened. We know for a fact that nothing in Danganronpa 3 was recorded, so that footage existing would be outright impossible and make this argument completely fall apart. It's not even footage that could have been extracted from Makoto's memory because the camera is right in front of his face and shows scenes he wasn't even a aprt of.

Even if somehow they managed to "uncover it up," whatever that means, even if they extracted everyone's memories and everyone yapped about what happeend, this footage couldn't possibly exist. Or really any of the footage shown in Danganronpa 53 trailer for that matter.

And all of that brings me back to the original two conclusions, either

It's all fiction

It's all a fictional retelling of real events

So TL;DR, it's fiction either way.

Edit: Had to fix some things because I failed to mention a few things

[siramay-the-showgun-dragon]

I think the whole Izuru/Hajime thing originated from Kodaka using the same ideas he developed for Zero, and a desire to use essentially the same twist again but with a happier ending.

I agree I'm pretty sure hajime and his story is ment to be a foil on ryoko and her story being quite similar but also difrent

Which honestly makes me even more sad about ryokos fate cause hajime got his happy ending and came to terms with izuru but ryoko never got that and was forever repressed by the darkness of junkos soul till their inevitable death and it realy hurts me to think about it

But this is why I firmly belive people should read danganronpa 0 befor danganronpa 2 not only did it come out befor but it also makes the 6th trial SO much more impactful just knowing what junko went through and realizing hajime has went through the same and how like junko he almost sinks back into darkness but then in a last spark of hope chiaki appears to say his past dosent control him and he can make his own future

MAN it's just so much better after reading dr0 let me tell yah

It also makes junkos last lines befor dieing tragic as well cause with the context of dr0 you realize she went though alot and does regret it but dosent belive she can go back cause she believes despair is all shes good for in which the best situation for her is to die, man that's tragic like yeah she had it coming but I still feel sad