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batsplat · 4 months ago

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I keep seeing people say Agostini likes Marc and I think you had post which included what Agostini thinks about the rosquez situation.

I was wondering if you knew if they have actually interacted or how this fondness started. And if it's continued.

Apologies if you've already made a post about this and i missed it 😊

And thank you for all the responses to my prev asks!!! You are like my favourite grandparent i sidle up to and ask to reveal some new thing of the MotoGP world. Which you do so patiently 💛. ( I'm sorry for the grandparent comparison i couldn't find a better one 😔😔😔😔😔).

ahaha that's super sweet. and honestly, I don't think there's really a story here, beyond 'ago quite likes him'! they did a joint interview of sorts at the laureus awards in 2015 which is worth a watch - which came after that 2014 season in which a big talking point was how it looked like marc might be able to match ago's numbers in 'winning everything'... also you have that presser clip from 2013 where the riders are asked ago or hailwood, and marc says "if everybody say ago, ago" and laughs, which. I mean. I'm sure respected ago just fine but it's probably worth pointing out he's not exactly an enthusiast, is he

but yeah, beyond wading into a couple of marc controversies, ago's definitely spoken warmly about him quite frequently over the years. as early as 2014, he was saying that if marc matched his records, he deserved to do so - and in 2020, he said marc didn't need to switch bikes to prove his greatness. he compared marc to one of his own big rivals, hailwood, in 2019, he spoke with sympathy about marc's switch to ducati at the back end of last year and sounded confident marc could win again (+ here), and made similar comments early this year and likewise was fairly encouraging in may. in 2023, he also spoke about marc's capacity to put on a show. plus, he also said in 2018 that marc and valentino's relationship doesn't matter as long as "they both make us have fun and give us a show", and also that "they do not have to marry". giacomo agostini homophobic dog question mark

a lot of it just seems kinda generic 'legend of the past being nice about the new kid', like say doohan was with valentino but without the mentorship angle. but yeah, ago does seem fonder of marc than he does of marc's contemporaries? with valentino, let's be honest, part of it is that he was the first to really show up and challenge some of ago's records (even steal some of them like premier class wins) - plus he's italian so there's really more direct competition than there is with marc. but y'know, obviously ago's been asked about both of them gunning for his records (generally win number for valentino and title number for marc)

you can read tonal differences into those answers if you so choose, but you can also say he's expressing roughly the same sentiment for both (if you so choose). ago did also joke in early 2020 that he'd beat them both:

(again, this is obviously a joke and I'm not going to read anything into it lol, just thought I'd include it)

ago does have retired athlete talking head syndrome where he does... y'know, have a lot of opinions and has shared quite a lot of those opinions. which... okay, I'm aware this isn't really what this ask was about, but. look. I just have to bring in jorge lorenzo at this point. this is only tenuously relevant, but I think it kinda provides a fun contrast with how utterly drama-free the dynamic between marc and ago is... AND gives some much needed context for how ago was relating to some other star riders of this century

ago and jorge had always gotten on pretty well - and ago joked back in the day that jorge had to stop valentino from getting too many more wins. it is probably worth mentioning that in that 2013 clip I linked to above, all the riders at the presser were asked the 'ago or hailwood' question. in response, jorge, that old simp, essentially went 'actually the goat is valentino'... but that's really isn't about ago as much as it is about jorge's relationship with valentino being *gestures vaguely* complicated. weird. complicated. anyway, look, ago and jorge got on well, had done so for years. then, in may of 2020, shortly after jorge's retirement and with no racing whatsoever going on during lockdown, the two of them got into a PUBLIC SPAT!! (low key between this and the dovi feud picking up again at the end of the year, jorge was really working overtime to make motogp less depressing that year)

the argument was prompted by ago's comments about jorge's time with ducati and honda:

so basically he's saying jorge was mid for three years because his head wasn't in it. which is... a debatable assessment of jorge's 2017-19, but let's just run with it. now jorge obviously isn't the type to just let this kind of thing go unchallenged, so he hit back:

for some reason. jorge's father also got involved, as he has an unfortunate tendency of doing:

(I'm gonna be so real, personally I wouldn't be particularly flattered if one of my parents suggested I could challenge one of my main career rivals 'on my day'. but anyways)

and then mr agostini in turn doubled down and told jorge that 'the truth hurts':

note the bit about how ago had sided with jorge against valentino! it is broadly true that ago has often been very complimentary of jorge, including to the detriment of valentino - and apparently that might have created tension with valentino's team. ago also added the following bit and it's kinda even more brutal:

so basically - ducati didn't pay jorge that much to win three races. funnily enough. jorge did not take kindly to these comments... and then he hit back on instagram (all of this is still in may 2020 btw, literally the only thing we had going for us). here's the text from the post:

jorge lorenzo a proud fellow warrior in the 'it's useless to compare different eras' campaign, saluting a real one

so, after jorge had said that ago doesn't know what he's talking about, that this kind of criticism was 'improper' from a legend like ago... we'd actually finally gotten to the point where ago wanted to clamp down on the controversy. here's what he had to say:

he doesn't want controversy! it's not his fault jorge didn't win! jorge didn't win a title with either ducati or honda! what a shame!

okay, there is arguably a slight difference in rhetoric between saying 'well I can't say he won at honda when he factually didn't!!!' and 'ducati paid him a lot and got nothing out of it' - BUT obviously this was still a bit of an olive branch from ago. unfortunately, we've gotten no updates on whether ago did ever reach out privately, but we did get jorge's response. and jorge... kinda accepts the peace...? but also not really!

so to paraphrase jorge here, he's basically going 'sure fine I'll accept the peace but I also know ago will start the same shit again when he has a microphone in front of him!!' - and also makes it clear that jorge will not shut up about ago chatting shit, unlike those other cowards who just let ago get away with it (including other champions). jorge then goes on to talk about their personal relationship and ago's past support of him:

and then jorge goes on to stridently defend his time with the ducati project - pointing out that, without detracting from what casey had done, it was a very good bike back when casey won the 2007 title:

(yes, obviously there is a rider who was doing rather a lot more with that bike during the same time span as jorge was there - who you'll note jorge very much does not name. I suppose jorge's argument would be that this particular rider had been with the team since 2013. without getting too much into 2017-18 discourse in a post that really isn't about that, it is broadly true jorge just Was Not Clicking with that bike for way too long, but he was running dovi pretty close in 2018 until he got injured at aragon. which is also because dovi was having a pretty ragged first half of the season himself but y'know, six of one half a dozen of the other. also low key those three jorge wins did get during his time at ducati massively flatter how that stretch of his career gets perceived a few years later, but again. this isn't all too relevant. just some historical context!)

and jorge rounds up the whole thing by demanding an actual apology:

and, lastly, here's what ago said in june:

anyway, that's basically it as the public spat went, but it did still give us some nice little gems. you'll note that jorge believes ago was supporting him against valentino - "what I know is that in the duel I had with rossi he wanted me to win races more, for the titles and all that". and then, of course, there's the fun bit where jorge says that ago has also said inaccurate things about valentino before: "because he has also said things about valentino many times that did not correspond to reality". jorge going full 'enemy of my enemy' about valentino on this issue is just extremely him, not least because that is a rivalry where, according to him!! ago basically always was rooting for jorge! and YET jorge's like 'valentino may not speak up on this issue but I!! will!!' I honestly have no clue if there's anything specific jorge's referring to here that ago is getting wrong about valentino... but again ago does have retired athlete talking head syndrome so really it could be anything

what this does do is give us a little bit of confirmation that ago probably isn't the world's biggest valentino rossi fan (obviously, valentino wouldn't let you know that kind of thing so it's great when you've got someone a little more talkative like jorge around). jorge didn't have to bring in valentino here - he did so of his own volition, because he apparently disagreed quite strongly with something ago had said about one of jorge's fiercest rivals. by contrast, there's nothing comparable you can point to with marc... which, given that we've established ago has run his mouth about past champions, would lead you to the conclusion that ago really is a bit of a marc fan. all things considered, ago seems genuinely fond of the little guy! he's never really talked him down, or taken another rider's side against marc! why? ... unfortunately, I have no clue. maybe it is linked to ago's feelings towards valentino, maybe it's completely unrelated and he just likes marc a lot, maybe he's a fan of him as a rider or his personality or something else. there's not really anything to suggest they're particularly close - for instance, I don't think marc has had dinner with ago's family like jorge has - but he generally always seems happy to offer up a lot of marc prop without any qualifications. it just seems like quite an uncomplicated relationship, and given ago's been fairly vocal within the past year about marc's switch to ducati, about how he could win again etc etc... he's perhaps quite enjoyed following that story. mostly, there's clearly just a lot of mutual respect there... and if ago did ever find cause to criticise marc as strongly as he did jorge, well, it's a lot less likely marc would decide to clap back on instagram. that'll help, I suppose

#i was going through the ago/marc quotes and they're like. nice. but it's also quite generic uno i didn't have much to say about them #dumb instagram beef from 2020 though?? that's my speciality #jorge obviously also has massive retired athlete talking head syndrome let's be CLEAR. happens to a lot of them #//#brr brr #batsplat responds #yoro #alien tag #jorge's whole relationship to vale/marc is so funny he really is their biggest hater and their biggest fan #they could shoot someone in front of him and within 2-3 years he'd be like 'well..... low key goat behaviour what can you say'

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