#what can ya do! them racist white people!

[bonesandpoemsandflowers]

mother in law who gleefully hates me has unfortunately found out about my trip to the old country the ancestral homeland Medellín and is now spamming me links to old articles on released + returning drug lords and old crime statistics and on one hand, you know what, I know all this already, y'know, we're from here, my family, we know, but also, two, could you please stop being so fucking racist for like five minutes. please.

[show-us-kaidenshenandoah]

trust me, i'm mixed but decidedly am nonetheless Not Black in said mix, and i know what person gets awkward "chuckles" and whose "childish" usage of language (mine) gets actual laughter

[meirimerens]

(ran this reblog through a discussion with some people who have more experience in storytelling/gamedev than i do and some who are central asian indigenous [which i'm not] to get their point of view on the Kin so it's probably going to be long because I'm condensing multiple discussion pieces in one, it's gonna be one of them Long Posts)

while the Kin is obviously heavily inspired by the Buryat, including in its language which does contain a lot of Buryat words, but also a lot of not-Buryat words (Yargachin, pointedly incredibly important in the game, is Mongolian directly. as stated above, Yas & Merdrel are also Mongolian), I do not know if I agree that finding the other inspirations is "forgetting that and trying to match them to other cultures". The Kin is not "its own somewhat distinct culture", it is its own, imagined, invented, imaginary culture, which takes inspiration from (/plainly steals) from existing ones. It is an imaginary people with heavy foundational roots, in the same way the town is imaginary with heavy foundational roots, and the disease itself is imaginary with heavy foundational roots. It is obvious the game takes inspiration from the Buryats (and from others), but it also, in the name of storytelling, creates a religion which is almost an inverse of Buryat Tengrism (Tengrism, with Kyuk-Tengri, father-sky-god as head of the pantheon, being, from what i'm understanding, pantheistic [the Main God is in everything, and everything is a manifestation of him], polytheistic [while Tengri is the main one, there is a heap of other gods, goddesses and spirits under/around him, with great importance placed on those spirits [44/55 associated with different things]], and of course with a main head of a father-sky-god; whereas the Kin's religion, with Boddho, a mother-earth-goddess* [whose name seems to relate more to Mongolian], is pantheistic [mother Boddho is in everything and everything is a manifestation of her], monotheistic [she is the only one, the all-mother, all-creatoress] OR duotheistic [her + Bos Turokh are the only deities], and lacking in spirits entirely, which are so important to Tengrism), has an important spiritual caste of women (the Herb Brides) who have no resonance within Altaic/Mongolic/Turkic cultures because no culture has Naked, Dancing Young Pretty Women Whose Sole Job is Dancing For Harvest (some types of goddess-priestesses / witches / oracles have always existed, but the Herb Brides are a distinct, obvious invention, which deserves scruteny. you could argue that they correlates with shamans, but in the text it appears evident that is more the place of Burakh [father, then son], and the Herb Brides directly go against a widespread shamanic practice which is the wearing of many layers made of animal skins, bones, antlers, horns in order to disguise oneself, to wander between worlds, to trick the tricksters, etc), and also like. Worms. "crude", "unfinished". half-man half-dirt.

*the cult of an earth-mother/mother-earth exists in Buryat Tengrism with Umai, because earth-goddesses exist/have existed in most pantheons, especially before the advent of pastoralism; however, she is daughter of Tengri, whereas Boddho is all-mother. Mongolian Tengrism has her be named Etugen, and while she is said to have all control over the natural forces and all living forces be subordinate to her, Kyuk-Tengri is still "above" her, she is the "second highest" after him. the existence of a earth-goddess within two religions does not make them more similar than any others (the Greeks had an earth-goddess, Demeter, with theories that she was there before the advent of the hellenic pantheon as an all-mother... etc etc so on). there is also sources stating that at some point, Tengrist or proto-Tengrist peoples might have worshiped him/a sky-father exclusively or so majoritaly that the other deities were aside, but it could also come from biased or outside sources.

we are also unsure about your claim that the Kin represents the Buryats in "interesting and careful" ways. We do not know of your position wrt indigenity (and it's none of my business specifically, might be the business of those in the group who are indigenous but i'll let them decide if they want to contact you directly) and if you were doing research on the Buryats out of a reconnecting journey or intellectual curiosity/desire and personally feel that the Buryats are respectfully represented in P2 as one, but I have read many other Central Asian Indigenous people in this fandom write, since the release of P2 (and possibly before that about P1, as well as in the discussion we were Just Having about this ^) about how the Kin does not represent them faithfully, or even sometimes just kindly, and the treatment of it and its members being insulting in multiple ways (including the fact that their beliefs and language are a hodgepodge of languages and beliefs that feels to "steal" from multiple sources [=appropriative instead of appreciative] which itself is another discussion, do not represent any real-life religion while obviously being inspired by some, and on other levels just the fact that the Kin's clothes do not resemble the vibrant, intricate, and historically-significant clothing of the Buryats, or any of the peoples they are inspired by. That and the fact that they literally have non-human/in text sub-human members [the Worms]). Most of the discussions around the Kin that i've seen, from Central Asian Indigenous people, recognizes and celebrates the inspirations (plural) while still interrogating how callous, cruel, sexualizing and misogynistic the narrative and metanarrative treatment of the Kin is, a far cry from a "careful and interesting way" of representing the Buryats (or any of the other inspirations).

last thing: I am personally curious as to where/how you've found the "half Chinese" data piece, because I have not been able to find anything of the sort online (doesn't help that my grasp on Russian is nonexistent). I have seen it going around, without a source, and I also have seen (in the tags of this) the data of "1/16 Manchu or Han", which is a far cry from "half-" anything, and not related to Shenekhen Buryats. [deleted the rest to add:]

Dybowski, from his own mouth, is not half-chinese, and the tagger who mentioned it being 1/16 was right: on page 57 of [this interview], he mentions his grandfather's father (so great-grandfather) having married a Chinese woman (when he was 60 and her 20, but that's a whoooole other story), making him 1/16 chinese (possibly Han or Manchu as the tagger mentioned). I do not doubt this informs his view of the world and how he is treated, even if he mentions being "the only one in [his] family who really looks Russian", but it is a far-cry from "half-" anything. that does not change the general discussion i've read for years at this point around the Kin, which is that the inspirations are obvious and should be celebrated, but it is obviously imaginary/invented, and in the hazy lines of imagination lies a treatment of the Kin which is cruel, crude, sexist (more specifically misogynistic), often racist and feels more like appropriation for a morally gray ethnicity that pays lip-service to its inspiration but mistreats it nonetheless rather than full, hearty representation.

great discussion! 👍🫂 i'm genuinely glad we can exchange on this. but what is contained in your reblog is, from what i've seen and read, pretty far from the consensus on the Kin. we all can recognize (and we should appreciate and take good care in handling) the real-life inspirations while still seeing that, in the blurry lines of storytelling and "invention" for the sake of (technically) a ~fantasy~ ethnicity, lies like. a racist mistreatment with appropriative qualities. which i've seen people talk about for years at this point.

the pathologic Kin is largely fictionalized with a created language that takes from multiple sources to be its own, a cosmogony & spirituality that does not correlate to the faiths (mostly Tengrist & Buddhist) practiced by the peoples it takes inspirations from, has customs, mores and roles invented for the purposes of the game, and even just a style of dress that does not resemble any of these peoples', but it is fascinating looking into specifically to me the sigils and see where they come from... watch this:

P2 Layers glyphs take from the mongolian script:

while the in-game words for Blood, Bones and Nerves are mongolian directly, it is interesting to note that their glyphs do not have a phonetic affiliation to the words (ex. the "Yas" layer of Bones having for glyph the equivalent of the letter F, the "Medrel" layer of Nerves having a glyph the equivalent of the letter È,...)

the leatherworks on the Kayura models', with their uses of angles and extending lines, remind me of the Phags Pa Script (used for Tibetan, Mongolian, Chineses, Uyghur language, and others)

some of the sigils also look either in part or fully inspired by Phags Pa script letters...

some look closer to the mongolian or vagindra (buryat) script

looking at the Herb Brides & their concept art, we can see bodypainting that looks like vertical buryat or mongolian script (oh hi (crossed out: Mark) Phags Pa script):

shaped and reshaped...

[ofbreathandflame-archive]

i haven't read the acotar series but yeah there are...SO many issues with it. I was about to say I'm not surprised that people wanted the racism to be more violent so they could acknowledge but actually, y'know what? No, I am surprised. I'm concerned that people want characters of colour to be dragged through the dirt and be the victims of horrific acts before they can acknowledge the racism of the author. I cannot emphasise how crestfallen, how upset I felt when I searched up what Illyrians were for the first time. Like...oh. They are brown, like me. But they are also a whitewashed version of what white people want them to be: a violent, primitive nation that treat their women awfully, just so that white people can come in and save them, as if they weren't the ones ramping up that kind of misogyny in the first place.

I look across the YA sphere and I see white authors constantly say, through their writing, that poc are violent, that we are backwards, that the women should not exist and do not have lives unless they are attached to white people. I feel that the only time this has kind of been challenged in a mainstream YA fandom has been the grishaverse, and even then, the rep for brown peoples is muddled and vague at best, and the rep for Black people feels like there was no exploration of culture at all.

What I'm trying to say is: it's not great in the YA market, but SJM is by far one of the most racist authors out there. White fans shouldn't be begging for the violence against characters of colour to be ramped up so they can decide when they can step in and say enough is enough.

ugh! this was so beautifully put!

thiis will be a long discussion!

i really want to preface this by saying i would really implore everyone in their free time to read toni morrison's playing in the dark! it's a deep dive into the ways blackness (and in this case minority status) is defined by white superiority; how the very presence of the non-white is always used to reiterated the inherent superiority of their white peers! poc are used as conduits to uphold beliefs of white supremacy - the very existence of the nonwhite existing to boasts the intelligence of their white peers.

sjm's work moves in such racist territory that it so easy so see these mentalities etched into her work. every single poc that is included in the story is relegated to this ideology; their very existence speaks to the power of the main character. the primary function of the interactions deal in shame, humiliation, and cowardice (see: tarquin, nehemia, thesan, helion, tarquin, cressida, nesryn, lucien, the unnamed enslaved @ endovier, baxian, unnamed illyrian population etc).

morrison opens up her novel by asserting that we should be conscious of the way the author's imagination expresses itself:

“Both [reading and writing] require being mindful of the places where imagination sabotages itself, locks its own gates, pollutes its vision. Writing and reading mean being aware of the writer’s notions of risk and safety, the serene achievement of, or sweaty fight for, meaning and response-ability.”

morrison also posits that author's intenionality and/or bias are unfortunately apart of the creative process of imagination, reiterating:

“The imagination that produces work which bears and invites rereadings, which motions to future readings as well as contemporary ones, implies a shareable world and an endlessly flexible language. Readers and writers both struggle to interpret and perform within a common language shareable imaginative worlds. And although upon that struggle the positioning of the reader has justifiable claims, the author’s presence—her or his intentions, blindness, and sight—is part of the imaginative activity.”

this initial opening builds an understanding of the creative process, in a wholesome way. what i mean is - morrison is establishes that the creative process is informed by our own perceptions and understanding. the way our the narrative voice reconciles normalcy vs. unknown says something about the author. or what the author has put to page. the reason i am even discussing this is to make a similar point: sjm's writing oftentimes subconsciously asserts the dominance of the 'main, white character,' in conjunction with a ethnic, poor, nonwhite individuals of the story. when we meet celaena, we are immediately aware of aelin's 'superiority' over the slaves in endovier. the function of her slavery is to relate her power, while the story views the enslaved as dump, hopeless, individuals whose only goal is to die for their liberation in an endless cycle. aelin even complains that she 'finally' can talk to compotent people with assumption that the enslaved at endovier were somehow too dumb to adequtely communcate with her.

a court of thorns and roses invents an entire culture whose only cultural practices seemed be filled with violence, misogyny, and brutality. then the story argues that only three (3) out of thousands of brown men actually have common sense. that they're so dumb and brutish that they'd absolutely choose to have barely any resources out of spite of their benevolent high lord. cassian, rhys, and az are the strongest in history. and to relate their power, we get these dumb brutes who just seem okay for fighting for a country that would not even be allowed to enter....that's actually some crazy racist writing lmaooo. or the fact that nuala and cerridwen are trained spies, who up to this point, make so much money they'd probably be able to retire...and they just choose to be also the handmaidens...for five-hundred year old fae. like...immediately after acotar, there back working. rhys and feyre can still be reeling from that experience but nuala and cerridwen can just serve because that's just what they like to do.

the next notable quote states:

“These speculations have led me to wonder whether the major and championed characteristics of our national literature—individualism, masculinity, social engagement versus historical isolation; acute and ambiguous moral problematics; the thematics of innocence coupled with an obsession with figurations of death and hell—are not in fact responses to a dark, abiding, signing Africanist presence”

“The fabrication of an Africanist persona is reflexive; an extraordinary meditation on the self; a powerful exploration of the fears and desires that reside in the writerly conscious. It is an astonishing revelation of longing, of terror, of perplexity, of shame, of magnanimity. It requires hard work not to see this.”

in this way, the nonwhite becomes the site of a descent into darkness, hypersexality and power for white people. think of the way in which feyre's darkness is often times heavily associated with the nonwhite (see: court of nightmares). this sexy, liberated, dark woman using south asian culture to establish superiority while eschewing the people who are the originators of said culture.

but - really want to move this away from a discussion on individual characters and really focus the subject on sjm's role as the write. ultimately, feyre, aelin, nehemia, rhys...aren't real. they are reflections of the author's own internal dialogue. i actually really resonated with this observation/ assumption morrison's makes and that is:

“I assumed that since the author was not black, the appearance of Africanist characters or narrative or idiom in a work could never be about anything other than the “normal,” unracialized, illusory white world that provided the fictional backdrop.”

ultimately, i believe the racism comes from the fact that, although these are fictional worlds born from sjm's imagination, a lot of the racism comes from the fact that sjm is writing what she believes to be normal. and so - that's why the problem ultimately persists. violence against woc and poc are justified already. it doesn't matter that rhys slaughters hordes of illyrians because the assumption is that they're probably horrible, brutish people who ultimately deserve to die; nevermind, they could have had complex reasons, just like rhys. it's okay that the illyrian women are oppressed because...that's just the way things have always been. the only queen who helped rhys and feyre is humilated, murdered, and has her head shaven. we get one sentence about her and the story moves on. nehemia planned her own brutal murder, awoke dorian's power, and as a reward....her entire country is burned to the ground and the liberation of ellywe is delegated toward one sentence about maybe going to visit. , sorcha gets her head cut off (and its treated as a joke by the fandom) and dorian blames her for essentially being 'too fragile' or something like that. poc are already being brutalized in these stories, we're just positioned not to care.

and im not saying that ya isn't extremely racist - but i think sjm is by far one of the worst racist authors i have come across. not even ms. bardugo or aveyard or her other peers have this many racial problems by comparison and boy are there still problems even in those stories. like damn even george rr martin has like...semi-better writing (but he's actually another author that really exemplifies what morrison was talking about and id love to one day talk about that. but it woul take me quite awhile. i do like like asoiaf obvi, but it just has a lot of problems that i cant ignore). lmaooo even armentrout made some attempt to rectify her representation issue and thats saying a lot.

[blackbackedjackal]

Soul Eater has always been a bizarre case. on one end of the spectrum there's characters like Kilik Rung, Mira Nygus, and even major manga antagonist Noah. on the other end there's the infamous bg jazz band that are straight up minstrels (they look identical in the manga. this was not studio bones' artistic liberty) and the death scythe repping Africa named Dengu Dinga who wears a mashup of "african flavoured" clothing. and then there's Sid, obviously i can't pass judgement on what's good or bad design rep but there certainly was a scene where Maka literally calls him a "mean blue gorilla"..

sorry for rambling, but Ohkubo absolutely takes inspiration from graffiti art and hip hop aesthetics in his work which makes the antiblackness even more disrespectful

Feel free to ignore that ask if the topic is bogging you down btw, I didn't see your last post if you're done engaging with the topic for now feel free to delete it. Looking forward to what you do with strawberry moon <3

Oh dude you're good. I just needed a nap before I answered more lol. I'll try and answer as many of these as I can because I'm honestly enjoying the discussion even though I have to step away from it for a bit. It's triggering to me but not in a way that I can't talk about it, just bogs down my mind ya know?

Anyway, I've never watched Soul Eater so I had no idea of the Black characters in the show! I had to look them up and I see what you're saying. Mira is a stereotype because I'd consider her a sexualized Black woman in this context. Kilik is like 100% fine to me at a glance, like he just looks like a Black guy though there may be some writing I'm missing that still makes him a stereotype.

I had no idea that he was influenced by graffiti art but I TOTALLY see it now in his shape language. Sid is by far the worst since he still has the big white teeth and a more 'gangster' aesthetic. Especially considering the time period Soul Eater was released, it's in poor taste at best and still perpetuating Black stereotypes at worse.

Anime is it's own sub-genre of racism in animation. White people LOOOOOVE to say "oh it's a different culture and they don't know" LMAO YES THEY DO DON'T PLAY stop infantilizing Asians you fucking sickos.

Colorism alone is such an issue in Asian countries. I've lived with people from China, South Korea, Thailand, Taiwan, and the Philippines. I've heard first hand accounts of people from the Philippines being treated like lesser human beings just for having a slightly darker skin-tone and don't get me started on how Chinese imperialism has impacted Taiwanese people. I'm not going to speak for disenfranchised Asian people but it's easy to find if you look it up. But my point is if colorism is that prevalent, imagine how much worse it is when your entire culture has a history of being exploited to the point that blackface is a worldwide issue.

Also the Boondocks exists and though not a perfect example, it still has some of the best depictions of Black people in an anime style. There's no excuse to draw racist stereotypes when there's literally 5 seasons worth of overall solid Black character designs that can be referenced for other series.

[louiesselfshipramblings]

Straw Hat Headcanons! (And selfship eligibility cause like this is a selfship blog still)

Monkey D. Luffy: Nothing really major. Just darker skin to reflect his Fantasy Brazil heritage, and frizzier hair. I don't wanna say just what Iñaki Godoy looks like, but...yeh, what Iñaki Godoy looks like. Self ship eligibility...no shade to peeps who do, love ya, but I see my boy Luffy as AroAce king. Man was immune to a fruit literally EVERY man was vulnerable to, and he didn't even realize it! On the scale, 0/10 [for me personally].

Roronoa Zoro: Yeh similar to Luffy. Prob darker skin, but him being Japanese, I get a paler complexion. Also he is def a closeted gay man for Sanji. Gonna be so cool when they find the One Piece and the two make out. Very progressive and cool. Tho he's not my type; too emotionally unavailable, and passes it off as being "cool". Fuck you, Zoro! But I still love your goofy ass. Be silly again! 1/10

Nami: NAMI!!!! She should be FAT!! She should be BIG!!! She should be able to eat everything she wants now because she's a free pirate, goddammit!!! And she should still be seen as beautiful cause she's a Straw Hat!!! LET HER KILL PEOPLE WITH HER CLIMATE BATON, YOU LET HER DO THAT IN PUNK HAZARD AND NEVER AGAIN ODA WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!!!! (Can you see who I made this list for. Shush, it's a secret.) I was late on the Nami train tbh, but when I hoped on I hoped HARD. Nami is so wife...I wanna make her happy...I get it, Sanji...now move it and let me date her! You can have Zoro! Oh, and I could personally see her as pan. 11/10

Usopp: Please. Come on. You know what I'm gonna say. Usopp, my boy...he needs his melanin back even though he barely had it in the first place in both anime and manga but sshhhhhh. The boy's South African, and is explicitly played by the clearly black Jacob Romero Gibson. I suppose Oda is bad at coloring and all, but I see you Toei. I see you still keeping Blackbeard black while making Usopp paler. Racist ass studio...also, no donut lips. I'd still say he'd have thicker lips, but not exaggerated to that, and if it don't work with the style, don't have em, no biggie. And Oda CAN draw Usopp without them cause he DID when he drew Jacob AS Usopp in that promotional letter, SO WHY DON'T YOU DRAW USOPP MORE LIKE JACOB NOW, ODA!?!?!? Ahem...I feel Usopp could be a bi boy. Genderfluid, or maybe in a way to boost his ego. You understand. Personally, I feel I would have to be very lucky to get with GOD Usopp, but maybe, just maybe...6/10.

Sanji: Tbh, he got off most easy for the New World redesigns. Really only switched his bangs and grew some beard. Kinda ugly but in that charming way, ya know? No real changes, he can be the Straw Hats local white boy. Just...please tone down the pervness. I was joking with the Luffy-Iñaki stuff, but please, make Sanji like he is in the live action. I will say he's been on good behavior since Fish-Man Island, so...I'd say Sanji is bi, maybe gay, but I find it funny the hypotheticals that a bi Sanji would be useless cause he couldn't hit men or women. But anyway Sanji is the reason Zoro comes outta the closet and they kiss at the end. But for me...he's not my type, but less not my type than Zoro, so...2/10

Tony Tony Chopper: Oh, Chopper. Poor, poor little thing you. Salty was right; Enies Lobby was the last time you were allowed to be interesting. Tho, I agree, with all the New World upgrades, I suppose controllable Monster Point was the one thing he needed...I mean I feel accessing his other forms without the Rumble Ball is fine enough. Maybe like...semi controllable Monster Point? I dunno. I feel his New World design cutes him up too much...reduce the hat down a bit and keep the goofier face he had from Drum Island, aka the best damn arc in the manga, argue with the wall. Man, I really hope he gets some cool shit when his Human-Human Fruit awakens, RIGHT, Oda!?!? Oh and self shipping? Uh...that's a child. -1/10

Nico Robin: Robin...oh, I love you. Not as much as Nami as I've come to realize, as she's a bit more my type but gosh I love Robin. She's been gettin a lotta love recently, for obvious reasons if keepin up, which I like. Main things with her is bring her bangs back (which the manga is already doin for super emotional reasons), and like Usopp, give her darker skin! Doesn't have to be as dark as Usopp, but some darker complexion would be nice. "But it was a tan, she's Russian". A tan she had for TWENTY YEARS? And only lost over a TWO year time skip? There can be black Russians. Toei inadvertently cooked early on and they were cowards for reversing that. I make it secret I enjoy thicker women, but honestly I think Robin works better as a lanky beanpole. Not to the...proportions Oda draws but def lean and tall. Good contrast to her buff hubby Franky. For fits, I'd really liked to see her wear more mom-style fits, or back to Cowboy Robin. Cowboy Robin was peak, argue with the wall. I feel she could be pan, maybe demigirl? Feels right with her powers, oddly enough. And like yeah, she's my fave behind Nami for Straw Hat self ship. 9/10

Franky: Franky is already SUPER perfect as is, and even his New World style has grown on me. Buuuuuuut...ugh, the shoulder pads...too much. I get he's top heavy, but that's just a bridge too far. I like his forearms being bigger, those should be kept. And maybe less "meaty"/thick fingers; I like em big, but it's funny he has a second pair of small hands in em. Def some more mechanical detail over his bod. His default hair should also go back to the pomp. I like the gimmick he changes it each arc, but the standard buzzcut kinda sucks. Like actually. You gotta understand, I consider pre-time skip Franky perfect character design. Legit, Oda peaked with him. Franky, def bi, but I could see him being trans! Maybe a bit on the nose with the whole "rebuilt himself" background, but it could work! Robin too, tbh. They can be t4t. Not my preferred, but cute! As he is, Franky is def a hunk. I like em big, yeh, and would prefer him fat strong, but strong on its own is nice. 7/10

Brook: Oh, Brook. Poor, poor Brook. It would have been so much better had there been another full arc between Thriller Bark and Sabaody to really get you with the crew (whichyoucankindaachivebywatchingFilmStrongWorldinbetweenTBandSAbutanactualbreatherarcbeforethetimeskipwouldhavebeennice), but even then you are still the best Straw Hat. Again. The wall. Suppose it's made up for the fact he's with the gang for the whole arc even before officially joining, which hadn't been done since, like, Usopp on Syrup Village, damn. But yeh! Like Franky, I kinda consider Brook's pre-time skip design peak, and his New World fit...bad. I get what it's goin for, but it's too many ideas! I feel Oda realizes that cause a lot of Brook's fits have been just his old look (Dressrosa, Whole Cake, Onigashima), which is nice. Skeleton in a suit and top hat, it's a classic. I like the crown hat tho for the "Soul King" aesthetic, but maybe smaller. More top hat than crown. And maybe he can just have themed suits, ya know? And yeh...like Sanji, turn down the perv elements. Like, it was funny the first two times cause "Haha, a skeleton asked for WHAT!?" but it lost its luster after that. At the very least, he's been on good behavior; last he did it genuinely was Punk Hazard I think, but he also pulled it on Big Mom at the end of Whole Cake is a genuinely awesome way (makes sense in context). Also, I feel Brook should be black. I get he's a skeleton now, obvs, but I dunno. Feels right for the Soul King. I have a feeling he'd be asexual—not out of choice, but...ya know—and maybe some level of agender? He is a skeleton after all. Who knows what being like that does do your personal perception. As a partner...eh. I love him, but as a friend! I'd wanna be a string duet with him! I feel Brook should be with a very specific type of person, ya know? Not that he's not my type, just I'm not for him. 3/10

Jimbei: Honestly, I'm not as madly in love with Jimbei as everyone else is! Yeah, he's great. Great in Impel Down, Fish-Man Island, Whole Cake, Wano. He's great! But I'm not drooling over him like some peeps are. And hey, more power to ya! Not much I'd change about his design...maybe make him thicker? Like, fat fat! Around the arms and such! Make him look like a strongman; would contrast nice to Franky's more bodybuilder-inspired physique. Maybe show off him being a lil older too? Gray streaks in his hair, hair a lil frizzy? Idk, just rambling. Tbh, Jimbei is either gay or straight. Feels right for him. As for me...he'd be a decent catch. Get it. Cause. Fish? Heh...5/10.

And that's em all! Granted, I have a few other, bigger OP crushes. Not many more (Perona, Law, Lilith), and I could include some honorary Straw Hats like my daughter Vivi and the cool boy guy man Yamato and maybe Lilith again cause I have theories tee hee hee. But eh, wanted to cover the main crew, so if I do wanna cover the others, I'll do it in a reblog. Who knows.

[class-1b-bull]

Class b opinion on quirkless classmate? Like are some treating them like glass, some who think they shouldn’t be a hero, others who admire them or respect them, etc

Not proofread we die like men

Awase - he gives off the same energy as the kid that grew up really racist that mostly grown out of it but hasn't really nailed what is and isnt okay to say ya know? Hes cool with them but every now and then he will say something absolutely crazy about them being quirkless. White grandpa saying the nword randomly vibes but in a good way ykyk?

Sen - im sorry sen fans but hes a bit of an asshole. He would probably try to pick a fight by saying to their face how weak they are. Not necessarily because he has some vendetta against quirkless people but because he was just always told by everyone he looked up to that they were weaker. It would take some serious work to change his mind

Kamakiri - he will probably think theyre weak until they do something to prove themselves in some way like beat him or someone stronger in a fight or something like that. After they do that though he isn't letting anyone talk shit about them

Kuroiro - he writes some dramatic ass poetry about them being quirkless so he can try to 'better understand what theyre going through' he gives the poem to them so they can check its accuracy lmao

Kendo - at first she will feel a bit of a need to protect them but it dosent take long for her to realize that they are at UA for a reason and they dont need to be treated like some defenseless citizen

Kodai - shes a pretty neutral person about everything but even she was a bit surprised when she found out her classmate was quirkless. She didnt want to protect them since they were here for a reason but she cant help herself from feeling like theyre weaker.

Komori - at first shes a bit surprised that someone quirkless managed to get into the hero course but other than that she doesn't care. She treats them the same way she treats everyone else

Shiozaki - she definitely feels a need to protect them (at least for a little while) and it takes her quite a while to realize that they are just as capable as a hero as herself and the rest of her classmates despite not having a quirk

Shishida - hes probably a bit sad for them. Like he feels bad that they dont have a quirk like its a bad thing or something simply because he cant imagine life without having one ykyk? He thinks hes being nice when trying to help them or by trying to sympathize with them saying to stay strong or whatever when hes not helping in the slightest

Shoda - he treats them like someone that needs protection for a long while and it probably takes them beating his ass in training for him to change his mind.

Pony - she doesn't really care tbh. As long as theyre nice she likes them and treats them how she treats everyone else. They probably end up being good friends ngl

Tsubaraba - he tries to show off his quirk in a 'i can protect you' kind of way but it just comes off a bit ass-hole like. He dosent mean any harm but hes a bit stupid when it comes to certain things. He does definitely think his quirkless classmate is weaker but hes probably proven wrong quite quickly lmao.

Tetsutetsu - he dosent care that theyre quirkless. I mean this is a hero school that only the best can get into so if anything hes impressed asf and thinks its super manly

Tokage - shes a little skeptical at first but over time she gets more used to them and becomes pretty good friends with them. It does take a little bit though only because or internal prejudice against quirkless people because of how she was raised (we love fantasy racism here)

Manga - he honestly didnt know they were quirkless for a while. He just thought they didnt like to show off their quirk or it was something people couldn't really see. After he found out he made a mini comic about a quirkless hero because he found the idea of a quirkless hero cool :)

Honenuki - he is so nice i swear. He not only treats them the same way he treats everyone else but he makes sure he knows their abilities so he can accurately determine if they can do something on their own or if they need help. Ykyk

Bondo - he was definitely worried for them for a while (probably still is) but he dosent vocalize it or even act on it at all. He knows they are very capable and he feels a little guilty for thinking this way but at the end of the day they are still quirkless and theres a lot they couldn't do that quirk users probably could.

Monoma - he uses his quirkless classmate as leverage against class A. He will walk up and say shit like 'your class is so weak that my quirkless class mate could beat the shit out of anyone in your class.' And they will just be behind him, trying to get him to stfu

Reiko - she is the queen of not giving a fuck. As long as they can prove themselves then she dosent care about them being quirkless. Shes probably one of the only ones that treats them as she would anyone else straight out of the gate

Rin - hes probably a bit skeptical at first honestly but he quickly realizes that they are just as capable as anyone else despite being quirkless. Hes tries not to treat them differently since theyre quirkless but he finds it hard to not ask about it since hes curious about how they live as one of the only people without a quirk

Gif anime - frieren: beyond journeys end

[sofoulandfairaday]

Hcs about Sirius? Thanks

Let's see how many people come screaming in my inbox for these

Tall. Taller than James, definitely taller than Remus (ya know, like the text implies).

Tall and conventionally handsome. Not the skinny/androgynous/emo kind. I don't hate those hcs, they're just not how I picture him. He's very very conventionally handsome in quite a masculine way although I can see him not sporting a beard until after Hogwarts, maybe even after his escape from Azkaban.

You can have your makeup wearing, skirt sporting, femme Sirius but it's just not for me.

Also. Also. Also. Can I just say? Wizards wear robes. They all wear skirts.

Prefers animals to people (and animals prefer him).

Can fly a broom, and can do so very well, most likely since before he ever got to Hogwarts, but he wasn't on the Gryffindor Quidditch team. He maybe played once or twice if someone was injured and James was begging him, and only exclusively against Slytherin to spite his Seeker brother. I can see him being in the Duelling Club, though.

Practice duels against the Slytherins got vicious.

An absolute prodigy in Transfiguration (he and James were Minerva's favourite students), also excels in Charms, DADA, and (what a shocker) Astronomy. He's very good in school in general though, and has very high grades. Considering how much time James must have ‘wasted’ being Quidditch Captain - time that Sirius probably spent studying in his last two years of school - he was probably the best, academically speaking, of the Marauders. He was also probably the most powerful wizard of the four.

Took Muggle Studies to annoy his family (he was mildly interested, but he wasn't passionate about the subject), and dropped it after his O.W.L.S. to better concentrate on the ‘important’ classes, especially since there was a war out there by 1978. Definitely got into a slight quarrel with Lily about this - more and more people were dropping out of Muggle Studies out of fear at this point and to her, it was about making a statement. Sirius's reply was ‘I think a curse right between the eyes is a better statement against the Death Eaters - I can only do that if I train’.

But Sirius- I've said this before, but I'm much more interested in all the ways Sirius is like his family than the ways he isn't. Definitely had to unlearn many of his biases.

Amongst which: his classism. Which he does display in the books, especially in the case of Snape.

I'm sure he would get into arguments with Remus (who was clearly hurt by some of these - which is precisely what prompted Sirius to reexamine some of his views more consciously), where Remus would say ‘But not all werewolves are like that, Sirius!’ when talking about, say, whether or not they should be allowed in certain jobs or whatever, and Sirius saying ‘well, yes, Remus but what if they do attack someone’ (Wolfsbane isn't a thing at this point in the canon).

I've said this before and I'll say it again: Remus was Sirius' exception, much like Lily's was Snape's. And this goes for many things.

Gradually, he unlearns many of his beliefs, especially when he goes back home as a teenager and sees his points of view reflected in the mouths of people like Rodolphus Lestrange and Lucius Malfoy - which disgusts him.

Sirius, in the books, has very famous lines (“The world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters...”) but he very famously does not live by that morality. He's a person, to me, with an extremely black-and-white view of the world. He can hex and curse students for fun and it's fine because he isn't using Dark Magic. On the other hand, most Slytherins suck because they are all racist evil gits who will end up as Death Eaters anyway.

He did not have Slytherin friends, that's probably one of my least favourite headcanons ever. He knew these people because he was a Black, which is why he can list them off to Harry in GoF, but he definitely did not hang out with them or like them in any way. Also, who were the Slytherins in his year and above/below anyways? Avery and Mulciber who played cruel (and maybe slightly illegal) jokes on Mary MacDonald? Evan Rosier (to me he actually wasn't, in my headcanons he's 4 years older than Bellatrix, which makes him about 13 years older than Sirius, but for the sake of argument) who was a Dark Wizard TM and blasted off half of Mad Eye's nose? Barty Voldemort Fanboy Crouch? Regulus??? Snape?????

Good at Potions, never top of the class (those were Lily and Snape)

Tactless at times, but not as much as James.

An asshole. A complete and utter arrogant toerag, and definitely more than a little immature. He was popular, like James, and I can see him having other friends outside the Marauders, but never establishing deep and meaningful relationships with them. He was definitely more unapproachable than James, much more intimidating.

(Definitely meaner jokes, too.)

James was the love of his life (platonically, but I can get behind them as a ship). He was loyal to James, first and foremost (which is also why he and Moony grew apart and suspicious of each other in the First War). Also, both of them were James' friends first. The Marauders were James' friend group.

He was definitely jealous when James first got together with Lily because she was stealing his best friend, his second, better brother. He liked Lily, but he was obsessed with James, who definitely grew up before Sirius did.

I've always headcanoned Sirius as straight/bi and Regulus as gay. But the point is more that while I can see Sirius experimenting a bit in Hogwarts (after all, he was full of girls who probably liked him) I can't really see him as either an arrogant/douchebag playboy. I also don't think he ever had a serious relationship. Ever. Especially in his Hogwarts days. If you're not worthy of his time, he won't look at you twice let alone give you a chance.

Any partner of Sirius' would have to be quite exceptional anyways (brilliant, intelligent, talented, funny - he was all of these things after all - and maybe even a bit mean). I can't see why a girl like that would put up with Sirius' arrogance.

Loved McGonagall, lowkey hated Slughorn. He was definitely invited to the Slug Club and I can see him turning down meetings. That particular brand of cunning weaselling cowardice is quite literally the opposite of what Sirius was and it drove him up the wall.

My boy Sirius never worked a day in his life, especially after Uncle Alphard left him gold.

Also: it's very likely that given his nature (he doesn't open up to strangers easily), his vaguely intimidating aura, his less-than-perfect track record in school (I know this fandom likes to ignore that he cursed students for fun, but. like. he did.), the fact that he probably didn't have a job and spent his post-Hogwarts years in secret missions for the Order, and general ruthlessness- people knew him mostly as just another Black. It wasn't that unthinkable then that he might have been seen as Voldemort's number two.

(This enrages Bellatrix by the way lol)

And speaking of Bella. Sirius likes to go around saying Andromeda was his favourite cousin. Nu-uh. He wishes that was truly the case. These two have history, and I find it hilarious that what they hate in the other is precisely what they love in themselves (their respective loyalties).

Saw each other/could hear each other in Azkaban. Bellatrix's taunts of ‘See? We were right. You betrayed our family for these traitors and this is how they repaid you’ made the whole stay that much worse.

More likely than not had promised each other that they would be the ones to kill the other.

Bellatrix didn't mean to kill him though, I am convinced of this. In the books, she hits him with a Stunner and probably yells because she won the duel. Then, it's only after it's sunk in (after her run from the DoM to the Atrium) and when Voldemort is getting closer that she taunts Harry about it.

Personal headcanon: the last time Sirius saw his cousins was at Narcissa's wedding (nice parallel, because I believe that the last event Andromeda ever attended was Bellatrix's wedding). Now, it happened around his 5th/6th year and guess who was also there? Yup. Snivellus (as Lucius' guest). The two almost got into a brawl. Bellatrix was not happy with them almost spoiling Cissy's big day.

Once tried to beat up Rodolphus during a skirmish in which they had both lost their wands, in the First War. It did not go well for him.

I'll stop this now, but I def have more. Don't even get me started on Walburga and Orion and how this fandom does not understand abuse at all.

[ca-suffit]

Do you think the discourse about abuse in the Loustat relationship would be very different if they were both whites?

Yesterday I was following the latest discourse and i saw a tweet mentioning how the sex scene in ep 6 ,the one with Louis dissociating,someone said how Louis coerced Lestat using sex to make him less suspicious while they are plotting to kill him.

I'm really late i know but it's really the first time i saw how people are not objective with Louis to the point of distorting the meaning of a scene and i am really disgusted right now.

Once you see how vile people are in this fandom everything is so...

Now i remember what Sam said about what he saw on twitter and i can't help myself wondering what Jacob or Assad (Delainey seems to be quite loved and safe probably because she is a woman) but imagine what they see daily here and there?

Did you know Jacob started following his fan page few days ago and it make me think he is very aware and online.No one seems to care for this ,no PSA,no ''poor Jacob''...sorry i'm really bitter right now because it's like discovering everything,i was really naive all this time (I'm still new to the fandom 5months).

"Do you think the discourse about abuse in the Loustat relationship would be very different if they were both whites?"

yes. it already was different before the show aired. I can't say how ppl would react to the drop between white men, but I *can* say the focus on lestat's "innocence" in it all would not be done as hard if it was another white guy and white girl who were mad at him. ppl doubled down on the racist shit purely bcuz louis and claudia are black now and were angry at the abusive, white guy. can't have that!! didn't u know louis is lying and this is all fake and lestat has trauma?? :( ppl literally never talked about lestat's backstory in relation to his actions in iwtv that much at all before the show aired. ppl had fun laughing at what a stupid asshole he was and how awful they were as a couple. now suddenly it's "lestat did no wrong" forever.

"Once you see how vile people are in this fandom everything is so..."

ur gonna see this a lot now tbh, having awareness of it now, and the more u learn about antiblack tropes and dogwhistles and whatever else, the deeper it goes. it's in everything. that's part of why this account is here too, so it's harder for them to hide from ppl, and also so ppl can get educated about it.

"Delainey seems to be quite loved and safe probably because she is a woman"

she's actually the most at risk for being a woman tbh, bcuz she's not just a woman, she's a *black* woman. if ur not aware of the term "misogynoir" then look into that. here's a video to start. look into colorism too bcuz she got a lot of comments stemming from that when she was cast as claudia, being darker than bailey is.

tw here for abuse and rape topics

"Did you know Jacob started following his fan page few days ago and it make me think he is very aware and online.No one seems to care for this ,no PSA,no ''poor Jacob''...sorry i'm really bitter right now because it's like discovering everything,i was really naive all this time (I'm still new to the fandom 5months)."

ya, I saw. and ya I've commented on that before too, especially when ppl were extra coddling sam for his comments about why he's offline. obviously nobody should be having to deal with any of this, but sam as a white man is gonna have a *vastly* different experience and level of protection for his feelings than any actors of color are gonna get, especially black actors.

what ur feeling is normal for starting to have awareness of these issues. stay outraged and stay locked in to helping say something about it bcuz this is not just a fandom issue and it's neverending.

[flower-boi16]

Lily Orchard's Takes on "Racism" in The Owl House Are Garbage and Here's Why

Hello. You may know me as the guy who made two whole posts debunking Lily Orchard's takes on Hunter. Although those posts are not perfect and I do think there are some things I could add or change about them, they still hold up as I still stand by every single point I made in them.

But to say that Lily's bad Owl House takes end with Hunter would be a lie. There is this particular narrative about both TOH fandom and the show itself that she tries to paint that really pisses me off, that being the whole "Racism" narrative. I talked about it briefly in my second Hunter post but this narrative has so much objectively wrong with it that it's best to make a whole post refuting it. Here I'm going to go over Lily's takes on three characters that she primarily uses to push this whole racism narrative; Amity, Hunter, and Luz. Without further ado, let's begin...

NOTE: This post is LONG. Like, very very very very long. Its the longest post I've ever made and the longest essay I have ever posted on the internet. If you don't want to read all of that then just skip to section 7 where I have a TLDR for those who don't want to read an 8375-word long post that takes at least almost a full hour to read. So...ya, let's begin.

1. Lily Orchard's Takes on Amity are Garbage and Here's Why

I'll be covering Lily's Video "An Incoherent Discussion About Main Characters" mainly TOH segment as its the video where she talks the most about Amity. This is where the problems with Lily's narrative begin, that being; Lily saying that white characters are popular because of white favoritism rather than the fact that they are actually well written characters.

Oh, you thought Hunter was the only character Lily accused people of being racist for liking, ya, no. In the beginning of the TOH segment, Lily tries to argue that there's no reason for the fandom to love Amity so much because she (supposedly) has little depth as a character....

"At this point, Amity had no depth outside of being the bully, It's only until a month later that that would change. But the fandom latched onto Amity the moment she was introduced and hyped her up incessantly. with only a few clips where her ego is bruised and nothing else. And the thing is, Amity had nothing to her at this point. It's a common complaint from people that the fandom reduces Amity these days to just gay panic and shipping, but as of season 2, that is what she is, love interest, abusive parents, and that's it"

"Amity is a one-note character, and I don't say that as a bad thing characters fit the role that they were made for and there really isn't anything wrong with that. Amity is an obstacle for Luz to overcome and then her love interest and then occasionally gets a few moments of depth."

This is...objectively incorrect. Note I was not in the fandom at the time season 1 was airing (I only got into The Owl House when the show had already ended) however, Lily tries to act as if Amity is a character with little depth and that the fandom has no reason to like her so much. This is likely done so Lily can gaslight you into thinking she has a point so she can paint the TOH fandom as racist. Amity does go through character development throughout the show, as in season 1 she gradually becomes a better person and even makes amens with Willow after cutting her off during childhood.

She has a lot of moments of depth in episode Convention, Lost in Language, Understanding Willow, Escaping Expulsion, Eclipse Lake, and Reaching Out that develop her as a character. These aren't just "a few moments of depth". Amity is a developed character, the fandom has a reason to like her. And maybe people latched onto Amity because they liked the idea of an enemies-to-lovers romance?

Again, I wasn't in the fandom at the time, but Lily doesn't consider any of these reasons that people may like Amity so she could try and paint Amity as a 1-dimensional character when really people like Amity for being a well-developed character and Lily's arguments that she is one note are just objectively incorrect. She's a girl raised in a prestigious and high-class family who has to meet high expectations from her parents and bullies people she can't feel any weakness, and was forced to cut off her childhood best freind because she wasn't strong enough for them.

However, throughout season 1 she becomes a better person thanks to Luz, makes amens with Willow and stands up to her abusive mom in Season 2, and in Season 2 Amity still has episodes developing her with conflict with her parents, she's not just Luz's girlfriend. This is a well-developed and three-dimensional character here, and there's a reason why Amity is a fan favorite in the fandom. But Lily ignores all of that depth and character development in favor of painting Amity as one-dimensional so her racism narrative could look like it holds more water than it actually does.

And for the "abusive parents" stuff Lily says this:

"Amity's relationship to her parents and her perfectionism only ever come out in the third act of any other episode with the exception of Escaping Expulsion and Eclipse Lake. Amity's abusive home life is a plot device more than anything else, something another character pulls on to get the story going, and the solution is almost always insultingly easy, and she's only ever brought into an episode because Luz drags her into it"

Once again...this is objectively incorrect. Amity still has a lot of episodes exploring her character as I already stated so the first sentance is already false. But then Lily says that Amity's abusive home life is a...plot device? Um, no? Its not a plot device, its an aspect of Amity's character that the show is dedicating episodes to exploring. And "the solution is almost always insultingly easy"??? What do you mean by "the solution is almost always insultingly easy"?? Lily doesn't give any examples here, she just says something critical and you're supposed to just accept that.

And now...we get the moment you've all been waiting for:

"So why do people get upset at the idea that Amity is just reduced to love interest when that is literally her role in the plot? Well, (and if this gets posted on The Owl House subreddit then uhh please cover your ears you delicate little flower children) white favortism"

And now we have Lily trying to paint the TOH fandom as racist for liking Amity.

"It's been a common refrain for a while that the show has a white and the fandom makes it worse. Amity was the first instance of that"

Ok so 1. The show doesn't have a "white favoritism" problem, this is something I'll get into more later but the reason why Amity gets focus is because she objectively has more importance than to the plot thank Willow and Gusm being Luz's love interest. And I already talked about the real reasons the fandom likes Amity that don't have anything to do with racism.

"When she first appeared in I Was A Teenage Abomination, the fan base instantly started hyping her up as the greatest thing since Eda the owl lady. They immediantly projected every fucking thing on the sun onto her, and Lumity was birthed from this"

What if people just again, like the idea of an enemies-to-lovers romance between her and Luz? And I don't think I've seen ANY ONE project things onto Amity, again there are clear reasons to like these characters. Then Lily says this:

"That was all it took. It's by sheer fucking luck that Dana was going in this direction with them anyway because there was zero basis for any of this. Amity was a minor antagonist at best, and Willow was the main spotlight of I was a Teenage Abomination"

"Zero basis for any of this"? Again, Lily is acting as if there aren't any reasons to like Amity when as I already explained there clearly is. And if she means no basis for Lumity then...Lily, Lumity was clearly being set up a lot throughout the first season. Its not exactly hard to see that.

"There's no reason for people to go absolutely this crazy over her when Willow was right there. Hell throughout season 1 Willow had more grounds for a romantic relationship then Amity did. But Willow was chubby and Korean and Amity was not and not"

I don't know about you but I'm pretty sure a lot of reasons for people liking Amity more than Willow is because they find Willow and Gus to be less developed than Amity, which is a perfectly fine opinion to have. Once Again Lily ignores reasons people may prefer Amity over Willow in favor of just jumping straight to racism instead. And there also isn't as much of a hyper-fixation on Amity as Lily says there is, yes she's a fan favorite character but characters like Luz are still very popular.

The rest of the segment really is not worth talking about. Basically after this point Lily just keeps on trying to reinforce her objectively wrong narrative of "Amity is liked because of white favoritism", her saying that she thought Eda was the main character instead of Luz, and she also talks about Luz and Hunter here but that'll be covered in their respective sections.

So Lily's whole narrative about Amity being liked because of "white favoritism" is wrong, there are real reasons that people like Amity, Lily simply chooses to ignore that because that would break her narrative. Now that we have that out of the way, let's talk about the next character Lily uses to push this whole racism narrative (and the most obvious).

2. Lily Orchard's Takes on Hunter are Garbage and Here's Why - PART III (...kind of)

Again, I've already made two whole posts debunking Lily Orchard's critiques of Hunter so go read those if you want the full analysis on why Lily's takes on this character are completely wrong, but in the second section of Part II I talked about Lily's whole narrative about Hunter's fans that she tries to paint, that they are racist and only like Hunter for being white. She does basically the same thing she did for Amity; ignore the reasons why people may like a character in favor of painting the fandom as racist, and she also tries to act as if Hunter is only liked because people push headcanon's onto him. I'll just paste this piece of text here since I already refuted it in my second Hunter post;

"In her video talking about Hunter, Lily says that the fandom only likes Hunter in spite of how he's written, which is basically her saying "if you like this character you actually don't like him...or your just racist". Ok so, I don't want to talk about this that much here, however, it's worth noting that Lily constantly calls people who like Hunter racist purely for liking a character she doesn't that also happens to white, which is a major yikes, as there are reasons that Hunter is well-liked in the fandom beyond his race. But Lily's response to that is "If you like Hunter you only like him because you push fanon ideas onto him when he's really a shallow poorly-written character".

Let me tell you why people like Hunter; he's a boy who was indoctrinated and raised his whole life into believing he was doing the right thing and that Belos loves him, and for his whole life he was had to prove his worth to the EC or he's just worthless, and a lot of people also see Hunter's arc as him realizing he was being abused. None of this is stuff that the fandom is making up, these are literally things that are communicated in the show itself, Lily is just choosing to ignore that just so she can paint this narrative that TOH fandom is a bunch of racists because they like Hunter, completely ignoring how people can have different tastes and opinions than each other. Oh ya, and someone did point this out to Lily once in a tumblr ask...Lily responded by saying "no" and then went on another rant about how the fandom is racist for liking Hunter and sidelines Gus and Willow, and says that if Hunter was black, people would ignore him like they do with Gus and Willow...that speaks for itself. I could not find a screenshot where Lily said this, but I do know that she did say that in response to an anon poking a hole into her narrative, which just shows how she reacts to criticism."

Like with Amity, Lily constantly acts as if there aren't any reasons for people to like Hunter, and the reasons people do have are just things that people make up through headcanons, when this is objectievely false. There are clear reasons for people to like Hunter, but Lily ignores that in favor of painting this narrative that Hunter fans are racist. She even calls than misogynistic and homophobic in her video on Hunter without showing any evidence of that. And NONE of the anons she showed say anything like Lily described.

She keeps on reinforcing the narrative that Hunter fans only like him in spite of how he's written rather than the idea that he is written well, which is objectively false because again, there are reasons to like Hunter as a character, and all of Lily's takes on him are just objectively wrong. This is just Lily treating her opinions like they are facts in a very narcissistic and smug way.

But again, I've already refuted this point so let's get into the other point about Hunter that Lily tries to use to push this whole racism narrative; that being that Hunter overshadows and sidelines the non-white characters and gets too much screen time.

"Season 2 only made this worse with the introduction of Hunter, who as a character has an effect on the fanbase comparable to Audo and Ren. Overshadowing every other character and causing white girls to squee about how much of a good boy he is, even though he definitely isn't one"

I already talked about how Hunter doesn't take up as much screen time as Lily likes to think he does in my first Hunter post, but I'll just put some comments that I got from my first Hunter post as they debunk Lily's whole take her pretty well:

"Hunter having dynamics with the rest of the cast is a good thing and while him, it’s not being “stapled” into them, he’s just interacting with them in a fucking episode. He parallels all of the main four teens in some way so it makes sense. Plus, he’s only in half or less of the season 2 episodes and wasn’t in season 1, he didn’t get the luxury of low-stakes filler episodes so he kind of has to make a mark during the episodes he’s in. Which is why he’s usually the focus or at least major in them, that’s understandable and he’s compelling enough to justify it."

"I'll never understand the criticism of a character taking screentime away from others, if this character is considered by the writers to be more important than others, then they have to feel like they really do matter, that's normal."

The reason why Hunter gets a lot of focus isn't because of racism, its because he's an important character and he doesn't even appear in that many episodes so he kinda of needs to make a mark in the ones that he's in, especially in season 2B where the show got cut short so the show needed to try and dedicate as much of its time to developing the character it just introduced in the first half of the season as much as it can while still developing the other characters and progressing the plot.

Also, here's a fun fact; as two comments on my second Hunter post pointed out, Hunter is a character that can ONLY work if he's white, because he is a clone of a 1600s witch Hunter. Just a little tid-bit I thought I'd mention.

Hunter doesn't sideline characters as much as Lily likes to think he does, in Hunting Palisman, Hollow Mind and Thanks to Them he gets paired up with Luz, the main character who is also a black girl who gets an equal amount of screen time with Hunter. This is an extension of the whole "Hunter is stapled onto other characters" criticism Lily has, where she complains about...Hunter being paired up and interacting with other characters. Again, I already covered this stuff in my two Hunter posts, but Lily's whole problem here is simply that Hunter is in an episode, regardless of the reason.

And we all know that Lily is entirely biased to hate Hunter purely for being an "angsty white boy" so I think I'm done here. Again, go check out my two Hunter posts if you want to see go more in-depth on this whole "Hunter takes up too much screen time" criticism.

But in short; Hunter does not take up as much screen time as Lily says he does, and the reason the show focuses on him is that he has more importance to the plot than Willow and Gus, and because he needs to make a mark in each episode he's in, and once again there are reasons for people to like Hunter that are not related to "white favoritism". Again, go check out my posts on Lily's critiques on Hunter if you want me to go more in-depth. But now, let's get into the final character that Lily tries to use to push this whole narrative, and that is...

3. Lily Orchard's Takes on Luz's are Garbage and Here's Why (short version)

Let me just say, Lily's takes on Luz, specifically her trauma...are awful. They are almost as bad as her takes on Hunter, and I'm actually planning on making a whole post refuting Lily's critiques of Luz like I did with Hunter, but for now, let's just talk about the whole narrative she tries to paint with how Luz's trauma is received; this time I'll be covering the Luz segment of her fandom torture video.

But lets cover the Luz part of the Discussion of Main Characters video first before get into that. Don't worry, this will be quick. Here Lily constantly tries to argue that people want to ignore Luz in favor of Amity and Hunter but they can't because she is the main character

"But the thing is, while Amity and Hunter caused Willow and Gus to be completely sidlined, (and even their episodes in season 2 have generally just been them playing second fiddle to one of those two) neither of them have managed to sideline Luz. Amity's entire role in the story is to be a supporting character to Luz everything she does is to help and further Luz's goals and Hunter is an antagonistic force in Luz's story, trying to stop her efforts because they interfere with the goals of emperor Belos."

"Amity is the supporting character and love interest, and Hunter is the villain. And I imagine that is something that probably sticks in the craw of the Amity-Hunter hype train, they fact that they can't just ignore Luz like they clearly want to because the characters they like come with Luz attached as a default."

Not only does Lily not give ANY evidence to support her narrative, she's also just... objectively wrong. Luz is a beloved character in the fandom, there's tons of videos about her that get a shit ton of views, there's a lot of fan art and fan works around Luz, etc etc. People who like Amity and Hunter probably also like Luz a lot too. Just look at the Luz Noceda Tumblr tag and you'll see that it has more followers than either of any of Hunter and Amity's tags do.

Lily does not give any evidence to support her whole narrative and acts as if the TOH fandom really wants to ignore Luz, but as I already said Luz is still a beloved and fan-favorite character within the fandom, its not exactly hard to see that. Just because people like Amity and Hunter doesn't mean they secretly dislike Luz or something, that's just stupid.

I could go on and on about this but you get my point; Lily's entire narrative that she tries to paint that People want to ignore Luz is just straight-up false and she does not support her claim with any evidence whatsoever.

But now, let's get into the real meat of things; the narrative that Lily tries to paint in her Fandom Torture video. Again, Lily's takes on Luz's trauma are just as awful as her takes on Hunter but I'll only focus on the racism narrative she tries to paint, that being that the fandom likes watching 14-year-old black girls suffer I'm not joking. This is the narrative that Lily actually tries to paint;

"But the truth is...ya fandom does love this shit. They love watching characters' angst forever. They love their three thousand-word slow-burn hurt with no comfort fix. They love watching characters suffer especially if they're women, and especially if they're black, and Luz is both."

.......Lily, fuck you. This is a lie, a straight-up lie. Lily is trying to trick you into thinking that the TOH fandom are sadistic monsters who enjoy watching 14-year-old girls who are also black suffer, and not only is that objectively incorrect, it's also just...so unbelievably gross given the real reasons why people like Luz's depression arc.

Do you want to know why this pisses me off so much? The actual reason why people like Luz's trauma arc isn't because they enjoy watching children suffer, its because aside from it being a realistic and believable depression arc, it also resonates with a lot of people. No joke, apparently there are a lot of people who relate to Luz and see themselves through her. Dana created a depression arc for a character that ACTUAL PEOPLE WITH TRUAMA AND SELF-LOATHING ISSUES CAN RELATE TO.

NOT TO MENTION the fact that a lot of people in the fan base actually sympathize with Luz her and her self-loathing issues. Luz's trauma arc is well-received because it was able to resonate with a lot of people, and the fact that Lily chooses to ignore that in favor of painting the TOH fandom as a bunch of racists who enjoy watching black women suffer is just...disgusting. Fuck you Lily, and I mean that very sincerely.

Oh wait, cuz I'm not done with this! Hunter, a character that has gone through just as much trauma as Luz, and whose trauma is also well received by the fandom as well, Lily just ignores. So its bad when Luz gets traumatized and people like it but when the same happens to Hunter it's ok? Oh wait, I forgot, Hunter is a white boy and Luz is a black girl, that's the difference.

Lily, I'm so fucking sick of your double standards. So its bad when a fandom likes a black girl getting traumatized but when it's a white boy you don't complain and don't go and call them racist? That's stupid.

You probably already get my point by now so I'll just end this section here; Lily's whole narrative of the TOH fandom liking Luz being traumatized because they are sadistic monsters who enjoy watching black girls suffer is both flawed and disgusting, so is her narrative about the fandom wanting to ignore Luz in favor of other characters which is also objectively incorrect. But wait, there is one last video of Lily trying to push this narrative that I have not mentioned yet...

... it's the white favoritism video mentioning Hunter

4. The White Favoritism Video is Garbage and Here's Why

So for this post I decided to go ahead and watch Lily's white favoritism video, specifically the Hunter segments. I went into this video with very low expectations, expecting it to just be Lily repeating the same points she already made over and over again. And...holy shit. This video is AWFUL. Like I knew it was going to be bad, but I was not ready for the amount of bullshit Lily was going to spew. I was left completely shocked and speechless by the end of the second segment at what Lily just said in those two segments.

Time for me to tear apart both of these awful segments. Let's start with the first one, and only 16 seconds in after reinforcing her whole "Hunter is only liked because of fandom shit" narrative, Lily already starts talking bullshit:

"Even his rebelling against an abuser in the canon is undercut by the fact that it's basically a preordained destiny because every golden guard has betrayed Belos."

WHAT????! Hunter would have never betrayed Belos in the first place in if the events of Hollow Mind had never happened, hell when Luz and Hunter saw the memories of Belos doing evil things Hunter constantly tried making excuses for Belos and spent most of it being in denial. And we don't even KNOW anything about the golden guards, maybe they could've eventually realized on their own that Belos was evil, that doesn't undercut Hunter breaking from his abuser!

Then Lily says this:

"Furthermore Hunter ended up being the vector for a lot of people to start caring about Willow, Daruis and Camila, insofar so they could be used to bolster Hunter's character with romance and adoption respectively before this point these characters were ignored or in some cases vilified"

I don't really know about Willow but for Darius and Camila this is just wrong, from what I've heard Camila starting getting popular once the episode Yesterday's Lie premiered, and the reason Darius was vilified before Any Sport in a Storm is because...in he was a villain in the show until this episode showed us he may not be. This isn't racism, Darius's last appearance before this has him as an antagonist, that's why he was "vilified" before Any Sport in a Storm. The rest of this segment is not worth talking about, its just Lily reinforcing her broken narrative about Hunter only being liked because of fandom stuff when that's literally not the reason why he's well-liked as I already explained so now let's move onto the second section...

....the second section is actually worse than the first one. The amount of bullshit Lily was speaking during that three minutes gave me a stroke. So Lily actually starts off by acknowledging the accusations she has been that she only hates Hunter for being white and would've liked him if he was black (which is an undisputed fact), since she constantly complains about him being a boring white boy. How does she respond to this? Does she try to refute this in some way?

....No. Instead, what Lily says next left my jaw wide open as I tried to process wtf I just heard. This is what Lily says:

"When I started criticizing Hunter it came around the time I became a lot more vocally invested in non-white characters and some people in a prime example of desperately trying to give me what they think is a taste of my own medicine came up to me and said with whole pussy "If Hunter was black, you'd like him" with a very simple truth, "If Hunter was black, you wouldn't" "

Holy shit. When I heard this I was at a loss of words. Do I even need to explain why this is awful? Not only is Lily once again accusing Hunter fans of being racist to further her narrative, not only does Lily not even TRY to refute the idea that she dislikes Hunter for being a white boy, but she also even says that if Hunter was black, people wouldn't have liked him...even though Luz, a black girl, is a beloved character in the fandom. Lily cannot gaslight me into thinking otherwise.

Lily then continues to push this idea that if Hunter was black, people wouldn't have liked him:

"If Hunter was black the fandom would not have ignored every skleazy thing he does, like his supposedly best episode according to fangirls that established Huntlow as a ship where...he uses the power the state to kidnap several children and force them to join the magic Gestapo. They would not view this action equally if dark-skinned and stop writing that well actually comment you will not convince me that they would. "

Hmm gee Lily I love how you ignore...

The fact that Hunter meant well and didn't know what he was doing was wrong as he thought that he was doing his friends a favor by getting them into the emperor's coven because of his indoctrination so thus he doesn't exactly know any better.

(And most importantly) The fact that Hunter realizes what he did was wrong and not only takes full responsibility of his actions but also goes out of his way to fix his mistake and get his friends out a situation he put them in AND risked his position as the golden guard AND ALSO was willing to take a lethal strike from Darius just so he could fix his mistake, something that is pretty selfless if you ask me (go check out this post if you want a more in-depth rebuttal to this bullshit claim. It's not directed towards Lily but it basically addresses Lily's whole statement)

Ya Lily I love how like all Hunter critics you just completely ignore that. Now Lily is trying to push this whole "racism" narrative even further, not even trying to give a counter argument to the rebuttles Hunter fans give and just calls them racist by saying "If Hunter was black, you wouldn't be defending him". That's not a good counterargument Lily.

THEN LILY SAYS THIS:

"Furthermore the main issue with Hunter is that the story spends a lot of time with him but spends no time developing him outside of making goofy faces for the internet"

hiuodshuviusdhfiudhfiudshfiuhqweqweqwe HUH?!?! The show doesn't develop Hunter as a character?!?! WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?! ARE WE WATCHING THE SAME SHOW!?!? Either Lily's is THAT illiterate of she's deliberately lying. The show DOES clearly spend time developing Hunter, especially in Eclipse Lake, and the very episode that Lily criticized earlier, Any Sport in a Storm where Hunter goes through development and learns to make connections with others and has real friends.

HE GOES THROUGH AN ENTIRE ARC OF BREAKING FROM HIS ABUSER!!!! And no Lily you are not going to gaslight me into thinking that was all just fanon, because its not, its literally communicated within the show, you're just fucking lying. Do I even need to refute this point anymore? Anyone who's watched the show would now this is completely false so lets just move on to the next thing Lily says:

"Making him black wouldn't fix these problems, it would exacerbate them, because now you have a black character you are doing nothing with yet proudly displaying you are doing nothing with him, and that's a problem because its now the third time you've done that"

Shows a picture of Gus and Skara

Ok, so...

The show is clearly doing things with Hunter, I already refuted this stuff in my two Hunter posts

Oh, I'm sorry Lily, didn't you say that Hunter being black would make him more interesting?

Skara is a MINOR CHARACTER that doesn't have any real importance to the plot, yet you want to show to focus on her just because she's black? What???

Also, remember the Skara thing for later btw.

"But all this distracts from the real problem, Hunter is only allowed to get away with being such a nothing burger of a character, despite taking up so much screen time because he's white and male. This is the only element of his character that people like and everything else is fanon that they made up. What little there is to his character is just ideas that were stolen from Luz and Amity and yet Hunter eclipses them both in popularity"

Do I need to explain why this point is garbage? This whole narrative that Lily tries to craft revolves around the idea that Hunter is flat and boring and has nothing to his character and nothing to him and isn't interesting and everything that people like about him is just fanon, and ANYBODY who watched the show would know that this is completely objectively wrong.

Lily, will you please stop trying to fucking gaslight people into agreeing with you? Hunter is an abused boy who was groomed and indoctrinated into believing he's doing the right thing and then breaks from his abuser and ends up finding real friends. This is not fanon, these are things being directly communicated within the show, you can not gaslight me into thinking otherwise Lily. The fact that Lily just straight up says that Hunter is only liked for being a white male reinforces the already broken narrative she has about Hunter fans. And once again Luz and Amity are still incredibly popular characters, I don't think I need to talk about this further. This point sucks, lets move onto the next thing Lily says:

"Ironically The Owl House goes to make Hunter a useless non-character because all of his acts of rebellion end up being underwritten by the fact that every golden guard has turned on Belos in the same way. So Hunter isn't even operating on his own accord its just gut instinct"

Lily, can you go five seconds in this video without saying something extremely stupid? Like I already said Hunter wouldn't have betrayed Belos if the events of Hollow Mind hadn't happened because he wouldn't have a reason to, he wasn't just going to wake up one day and say "I'm going to betray Belos for no reason at all!". Also, I'm sorry Lily, wasn't one of your complaints about Hollow Mind that Hunter was in denial for most of the episode??? HOW TF could you THEN turn around and say "Hunter's acts of rebellion were just gut instinct" like??? Hunter spent most of Hollow Mind IN DENIAL of the idea of Belos being evil, just because the other golden guards betrayed Belos doesn't mean its just "gut instinct", their genetic clones, not reincarnations.

And like I already said, we don't even KNOW anything about the golden guards, maybe they could've eventually realized on their own that Belos was evil, that doesn't undercut Hunter breaking from his abuser. Sigh let's just move on...

Now Lily's talking about Skara yaaaaaaaay

"Meanwhile if you like a character who isn't a white guy just because you vibe with them your expected to answer for it. Hunter stans can freely fawn over a character just because he's pasty and blonde as long as they invent pages upon pages of cope. But If I like a character just because their VA is cool and I vibe with their energy I'm expected to justify that like I'm in fucking court. I quite like Skara because her design is cool Kimberly Brooks is one of my favorite VA's and I like this little quasi-recovery arc she's got going on in the background. But butthurt Hunter stans angry about my criticism of the character and always throw that back in my face because those shallow surface-level traits of the character are things I call them out for focusing on"

So now Lily is addressing the whole Skara allegations except she didn't mention what people like me are accusing her of; liking Skara for being a black girl. Call it uncharitable, but Lily has constantly complained about Hunter being a "boring white guy" and explicitly stated that making him black would make him more interesting, and when asked how to fix Skara she basically said to make him a black girl, and since Skara (a black girl) is a character that Lily heavily hyper-fixates on AND straight up replaced Hunter's name with in the season 2 round up video AND since IN THIS VERY VIDEO Lily complains about Skara not getting enough focus despite the fact the show has no reason to focus on her because she's a side character with little importance to the plot, Lily has not beaten the allegations that she hates Hunter for being a white guy and likes Skara for being a black girl.

I'll admit in my second Hunter post I was a bit too uncharitable towards Lily since she has now at least given actual reasons for liking Skara, however Lily has still not beaten the accusations she's getting over liking Skara for being a black girl. There's so much evidence that points towards that and Lily hasn't refuted it at all. Also remember when Lily complained about Skara being another black character who the show did "nothing with"? Well, now she says this:

"This ignores the fact that Skara is a tertiary character and is therefore allowed to be mostly surface level. Hunter is a main character with the exact same level of depth as a background character."

So you admit that Skara is a tertiary character and thus doesn't have much importance yet earlier you complain about the show not focusing on her more??? What????

"You can argue that this is because the show was canceled but when you spend eight episodes doing nothing to progress a character the problem isn't that didn't have enough time"

I'm sorry EIGHT?! Hunter's arc throughout season 2 spans over the course of five episodes, not eight. And once again Hunter isn't doing nothing here the show is developing him as a character every time he appears, but again I already refuted this in my first Hunter post.

After this point, Lily stops talking about Hunter and goes on about how female and non-white characters are nit-picked and people act like you the weird one for not caring about their nitpicks and continues reinforcing her already broken narrative...and also makes a star wars comparison, so the rest of this segment isn't really worth talking about because it's based on points and arguments that I've already refuted. Besides this section is getting long enough already so I'll just end it here.

Good GOD that video was awful. Like, I already had low-expectations going into it expecting to just be Lily repeating the same shit over and over again...and it was, but it was also Lily making some of the WORST critiques of this show I have ever seen. Lily, how do your takes on Hunter STILL suck? The whole narrative Lily tries to build is based on points that anyone who watched the show and payed even a little bit of attention to it would know is completely objectively false.

Literally every single thing Lily says here has something wrong with it, I was NOT ready for the bullshit this video contained...

But ya, you probably get the gist now; this video is awful, and I've now gone through every single point Lily has made about racism in The Owl House and refuted each of them...

...But I'm still not done. Because there is a certain trend I've been noticing throughout these three videos, especially the first and third one...

5. Gaslighting

These next few sections are probably going to be a lot shorter since this abomination of a post has gone on for long enough already, so sections 5-7 will hopefully be quicker. Anyways, a common tactic I've seen Lily use during these videos is gaslighting. This is a manipulative tactic that she uses to try and make it sound like she has a point but when you really look at it, she doesn't.

We can see this with her insisting that Hunter and Amity have no depth where she boils them down to simple character traits (or just straight-up lies) to make them sound shallow. She especially does this a lot with Hunter with the entire narrative of "Hunter is only well-liked because of fanon stuff" which anyone who watches the show would know is objectively wrong. Then there's the whole "spite-based enjoyment" she tries to paint with him, where Lily says that Hunter fans only like Hunter in spite of how he's written. And in her Hunter video she...says this:

"There are a lot of Reylos in Hunter's fan base who are obscenely racist misogynistic and homophobic. And I sure as fuck am not counting them In who I'm talking to today. Hunter is a magnet for fandom racism and misogony, but today I'm talking past those people to people with a very sincere love for the character. You don't love this character for how he's written. You love him in spite of how he's written. And you should be upset that his potential is routinely squandered in favor of just making more shots about him moping and sulking. You should expect better. Everyone would have BETTER if did not waste time on this character doing fucking NOTHING."

Typing that as I listened to Lily's video pissed me off. This narrative is entirely broken once you factor in how all of Lily's takes about Hunter are complete garbage, but even worse, Lily is trying to gaslight Hunter fans who are going to watch her video by saying "If you like this character, you actually don't like him cuz I said so"

Fuck right off Lily. There are real reasons for people to like Hunter that are not fanon things that are being made up, stop trying to gaslight Hunter fans into agreeing with ffs.

Lily also does this a lot with Amity too, insisting that she's just a one-note character with little to her and there is no reason for people to like her so much, when that is not true at all. There are actual reasons people have to like these characters that are NOT being made up unlike what Lily is trying to gaslight you into believing her. This is an incredibly manipulative and condescending way to frame your arguments, that if YOU like a character you actually don't and you should stop pretending that you do.

Fuck off Lily. The show DOES clearly use Hunter to his fullest potential, anyone who watches the show would know that, stop trying to gaslight people with your terrible arguments. Again, read my posts on Lily's takes on Hunter if you want the full context of why none of her takes on him are good, but needless to say Lily really likes to gaslight people into agreeing with her here and that is a VERY manipulative way to frame your arguments.

Oh wait, I'm still not done...because now its time to talk about...

6. "Dana has a white favoritism problem" & Lily's Hypocrisy

Yes, you read the title of this section correctly. In Lily's TOH season 2 round-up video, she says this:

"I know we're all being very charitable to Dana but I think we all need to address the elephant in the room is that The Owl House fandom has a big white favoritism problem and SO DOES DANA"

"Dana is not doing anything to help if anything she's actively making it worse and I feel somebody probably needs to probably sit her down about that and just be like "hey Dana, stop""

.......there is no other way to look at this. There is no other way to interpret this, Lily is accusing Dana of being racist. Now, complaining about a show focusing on white characters too much despite any other reasons a show may have for focusing on these characters beyond racism is one thing, but to accuse somebody of bigotry for focusing on two white characters, ignoring any reasons the show may have for focusing on them beyond racism is just...

I don't even know how to even say it, it's just gross. Once again, there are reasons why Dana chooses to focus on Amity and Hunter as I've already explained, but Lily ignores those reasons and just casually calls Dana racist. Oh, and I'm sorry Lily, but if Dana supposedly had a white favoritism problem, why tf would she make a black Latina girl the main protagonist??? And also develop st. black latina girl a lot throughout the series making her a three-dimensional and well-developed character that a lot of people love and relate to?

Lily ignores all possible reasons that Dana may have for focusing on Amity and Hunter just calls her racist. Wow, as I couldn't have hated you more Lily. Oh wait, but I'm not done with this section, no no.

Now I'm going to be discussing Lily Orchard's hilarious hypocrisy here. I find it incredibly funny how Lily constantly accuses the TOH fandom and Dana of racial bias when she literally hates a character (Hunter) for being a white male. And when she constantly fetishizes black people and explicitly stated once that Hunter would have been more interesting if he was black. I can guarantee you that if Amity and Hunter were black and Luz, Willow and Gus were all white, Lily wouldn't complain about them taking up too much screen time like she currently does, you can't convince me that she would.

Lily so desperately wants to convince us how racist the TOH fandom and Dana are yet she hates a character for his skin color and gender and constantly complains about him being a "boring white guy". This comment from my first Hunter post sums it up best:

"Lily really just desperately needs a character to channel unjustified negativity into so she can act better than the fans who like that character. She found reasons to hate Amity that way too in season 1. She gets obsessive about how the series "could be better" (i.e. the series should do the specific thing that SHE wants even if it's not the creator's vision) and when things don't turn out that way she gets... weird.

Like she shipped WilLuz and was butthurt that the fandom mainly saw Willow and Luz as just friends and recognized that Dana was emphasizing Amity crushing on Luz ... but Lily was like, "How dare they ship Lumity and not WilLuz! This is the racist fandom hating PoCs!!!" without self-awareness to see that no one was being racist but her for assuming that people only shipped a thing they liked because one character looks Caucasian.

She'd get on her high horse and accuse Dana of "white favoritism" for having Amity be important and making the fandom like her... like, the leaps and bounds Lily will go through to turn herself into "the most noble person" in a fandom is shameless. She also would rip on Amity for being derivative of Malfoy or the spoiled girl from Little Witch Academia... when that character trope is what Amity was subverting by showing that Amity had depth beyond her snobby/type-A first impression since after her first impression she almost immediately started to show layers to her character.

I feel like Lily only stopped being so negative to Amity because even she had qualms against crapping on Amity when a) she realized that complaining about Amity being a bully long after Amity had since stopped and atoned for that behavior was getting really old, and b) shitting on one half of Lumity when it was probably one of the biggest, most wholesome LGBT couples in modern animation would be a hard sell for Lily (who as an LGBT person should be less harsh on earnest representation from an LGBT creator).

Along comes Hunter and Lily can't exist without having a designated hate-sink so she projects all her dislikes into Hunter for merely existing. His design being light-skinned and handsome was enough to repel Lily. Him being a genuinely good person who had a troubled life but still perseveres to protect the relationships he's forged... he's pretty much a perfect addition to the cast that kind of adds a missing quality to the series (like how Toph in Avatar the Last Airbender was kind of the special spice that elevated the series for the better by being added to the cast). But ignore all the good his character brings because he's a caucasian-ish character who used to be tricked into being on the bad-side. I'm also sure Lily was furiously spewing venom when she saw that Willow was paired with Hunter, since Lily wanted Willow to be with Luz."

Lily, if you constantly accuse people of being racist for liking a character you don't and also accuse the creator of being racist as well, but solely hate a character for being a white male, then I'm sorry, but nobody here is being racist except for you. (I could also mention her star wars fic but this post is getting long enough so let's just end it here)

7. Conclusion

TLDR for those who don't want to read this entire post:

There are clear reasons why people may like Amity and Hunter that have nothing to do with racism at all

There are also clear reasons why the show may want to focus on these characters due to them being important to the story

Luz is a beloved fan-favorite character and Lily does not give any good evidence to suggest otherwise.

Lily's take that people like watching black women suffer and that's why Luz's truama arc is well-received is completely false as it is well-received due to being able to resonate with a lot of people.

The white favoritism video is fucking awful

A majority of Lily's arguments are just her trying to gaslight you into agreeing with her

Lily complains about the TOH fandom and Dana having racial biases when she is racially biased herself

Lily Orchard remains my most hated YouTuber. She's a shit critic and an even shittier person, and I sincerely hope that one day, Lily's entire channel gets terminated and wiped off the face of the internet, because people like her do not deserve a platform. She has not improved and I don't think she EVER will. Thanks for reading this entire post, and...bye.

[artist-heart83]

VivziePop and her “POC characters”

I said “see ya in january” but Vivzie and her fans had been talking non sense every day after my bingo post, so let’s talk about this, shall we

You know the deal, this start because of the hazbin hotel cards and one specifically talking, the Alastor card

The card in particular had voodoo symbols and yeah, look at first I didn’t know anything about voodoo or what was the problem so when I start seeing all the tweets related to the situation and explain it why it was bad, I was “ooh… that’s not good”

Also people reacting (for second time) that Alastor is suppose to be black. Like I didn’t know it at first, until I start watching redesign videos and seeing people drawing him with black features

But people would go and said (you know, trying to defend Vivzie) “oh but you don’t had to” and my honest opinion is:

Like I said, it’s important because that how you can tell a character is supposed to whatever ethnicity(? is, otherwise people are gonna making them white

“Even if they are not human?”

Yes fulanita, even if they’re not human, Steven Universe had gems with some black features (kinda not the best example, but i can’t come with other right now)

I’m like I said before, fans of Vivzie start defending her and specifically one doing a thread about “other POC characters” if you see the thread you know what I going to talk now

Half of the characters are:

1. Stereotypes

2. Non human that you can’t tell if they’re black, latinos or whatever, only if you see their voice actor

3. Majority of the characters are created by people of the staff

When I talk about to brother how Alastor is supposed to be black he goes: “maybe she doesn’t know how to draw black people” and “that should be hard” and I stop him because that bullshit.

I start to explain him that is not hard because she just had to give some texture to the hair and add some features, and hard? To her? The one who made complex design? Can draw a different hair? Nah man, that woman is just racist, like pretend to be shocked. Of course he understands my point.

And the thing that definitely is pissing me off, is how Vivzie decide to ignore this, but not stuff like “my name is Caine I’m your bitch” or “Charlie discourse about what she is supposed to be”, and of course blocking people talking about the situation and trying to explain why is bad

So in conclusion. If you want to introduce any topic in your series 👏 do 👏 the 👏 proper 👏 investigation 👏 because you don’t know if it bad or just a stereotype. And we should expose all the bullshit that VivziePop had done before and still do

[bodycountgame]

Hello! I was a big fan of the series a while a go and it is lovely to see that you are back. I'm terribly sorry that other anons put you through a lot with the voting aspect of the game. Absolutely no one deserves death threats for a story that they are bringing to us for free. However, I am not going to lie, I always feel a bit worried when a fandom majority vote is what has long lasting effects on character life/death. It was ok when it was everyone voting with an equal effect. Now there will be a wealth gap to vote. Only people that pay can contribute. And at least where I'm from wealth looks a certain kind of way.

Since you have characters that are in a minority it feels... Bad. Maybe I'm projecting how racist and transphobic my home country is on the vote for this game. I also don't want you to feel like this is an attack on you because that is not my intent at all! I love the diversity in the love interests and it was what brought me to the game initially. I am worried that if you do a majority vote on Patreon that characters that aren't white/cis will face a harsher vote. Trans lives are in danger and I was not surprised when a nonbinary character died first. I was part of the fandom and people treated them very grossly (it actually made me step away for a bit as well). There were many options but the vocally out and proud person got the boot first. What I'm saying is I trust you more than your Patreon supporters. If the people can't all vote as one, due to the actions of some terrible people, then maybe we shouldn't vote at all

anon, i totally understand your concerns because i absolutely shared them. to be completely honest with you, i had totally misjudged which characters i thought were popular or not and watching the three non binary cast members struggle through that first vote felt Bad. my personal disappointment about ellis being the character to receive the least votes in the vote contributed in no small part to the twist in chapter 3 and their revised arc (which was Not planned when i set out writing body count hahaha). howeverrrrrr, i did learn a lot from the process.

my main motivator behind making the vote patreon exclusive was that the voters would be genuinely invested in the game and that the polling would be much harder to game or manipulate. selfishly, i also think it will reduce a certain amount of the absolute barrage of wild anons from the first time around haha!

in addition to that, though, i think its important that i reaffirm what i have said from the start: i am acutely aware that in interactive fiction in general and particularly on tumblr there is a strong preference for white male characters, and i am not here to write some kind of gross POC/women/nb slasher. as much as i want the audience to have a say in the direction the story takes, i ultimately have final say on what happens in the story that i am writing.

the main way that i intend to have oversight of the voting process is by who appears on the polls in the first place; the first poll was the last time the whole cast will be available for a vote at the same time. since ellis, one of three NB cast members, was the first character to die, i've said that neither of the other NB cast members will appear on future polls. if it's women and POC suffering in the next vote, then i'll be applying similar logic. if that means we get towards the end and we need a white boy only poll then so be it!

that said, if people cannot behave then i will simply take away their toys. although i consider the voting mechanic to be one of the things that makes body count unique and fun, i'm absolutely not above doing away with it if there are Shenanigans that spoil it, ya know?

anyway, i hope that assuages some of your concerns! sorry for another giant wall of text wow i simply cannot answer a question concisely atm

[urproblematicfav-arsonk]

With the reveal of Abel now outside of leaks, unless people are right about the crackship idea that Lucifer knocked/got knocked up by Adam and is the secret father, I feel like the implication is that Eve is white.

Lilith, Adam, Eve, Abel and Lucifer are all white. All of the first humans are white. All of the royals are white, all of the people in power are white. Excluding a few characters, like Sara and Emily(who are still gray, and not black btw), almost the entire governing systems are white people.

I don't understand why Viv acts like her being Latina is the reason people don't like her work, or that hating on a successful Latina woman is all anyone is ever doing, when her representation is terrible???

I'm not special for saying this, cuz this has been a problem since day one and plenty of people complain about it. But every brown/black isn't ya know.......BROWN. Velvette is the only character I can think of thats actually black.

Alastor, Val, Vaggie, Carmilla are all either gray or purple. And Alastor doesn't even have a good excuse like Val or Vaggie have with being bugs. Deer are usually brown anyway, and he's the most humanoid of all the furry characters so him having a more human skin tone wouldn't be that odd of a design choice.

I'm probably missing some other characters because Viv is awful at conveying that a character isn't white. Husk doesn't count, he's only black because Keith David is playing him, he was never intentionally written to be black. (And neither was Alastor so, ¯\_(:/)_/¯) Niffty is only Asian because her pilot VA could speak Japanese, and Viv was like "yeah sure, whatever. she can be Japanese" without any further thought being put into what that could mean for her character. Vassago may or may not have been originally intended to be Latino, idk, but again he's still being played by a irl Latino so it could just be the same problem with Husk.

There's nothing necessarily wrong with the first humans all being white, but there's also nothing wrong with stopping to ask yourself "Why is it that my first instinct is to make Adam and Eve white? Is it my own bias? Is it because this is what society pushes as biblical canon?"

Almost everyone has racist or uncomfortable biases. It's normal when you live in a racist society. You grow up hearing things or absorbing information from your peers and the people around you. The best way to avoid that, is to sincerely question and understand why you feel and think the way that you do. Asking, "Why is it that when I want to convey that this character is evil and scary, my first instinct is to use symbols and words from a foreign religion? Is it because I'm genuinely interested in this religion, and want to explore it? Or is it because I've been taught to think that foreign cultures, especially black cultures, are inherently more scary and monstrous?" Is how you actually figure out if what you're doing is something to be concerned over, and if it's something that's hurtful or mean and thus should be corrected.

But Viv doesn't ask these questions. She uses being Latina to deflect her racism, or claim that people engaging with her art in a way she doesn't like is just them being the racist ones.

(Or homophobia, or hating SA victims, or just being mean to her for no reason. And I get it to a certain extent. She's been dealing with anti's and people fucking with her over being a furry FOR AWHILE NOW LMAO. Sometimes its hard to tell when something is a REAL genuine critique or complaint, and who's just bitching again because they can't handle a pop song about SA, or a bathtub of snakes, or the fact that valangel exists at all. Some people are out to be actually fucking awful for no real reason, but she tends to lump everyone who doesn't like her work as the same when thats not the case. People are also stupid, and genuinely in their very, very dumb hearts think that Snakes In A Bathtub is on the same level as like, racist appropriation and will treat Both with the same Severity because they're stupid)

She panics, and doubles down instead of actually thinking about what she's doing. "Uh, uh, uh, HE'S ACTUALLY MIXED. SO ITS FINE." Isn't helpful. That wasn't the problem. She treats race like its a toy that she doesn't even want to use. There's no sincerity behind anyones design or backstories. It's literally not relevant to her.

Anyway, rant tim. Viv needs therapy. She's definitely too mentally ill and immature to be handling this shit on her own. She is in soooo far over her head and it not only results in a bad show, but probably isn't good for her either.

[batpoisonz]

My experience as a 2S gaybian:

Before all this, I was exclusive to "contradictory" labels all the way up until early 2023. I then labeled myself as an mspec lesbian, because as a 2S person, my gender and sexuality are impacted by my cultural experiences way beyond that of someone's binary thinking. Most white transphobes couldn't even comprehend my experiences with me being 2S.

When I was exclu; it was simply just my own ignorance. I was influenced by those around me who did not understand the labels themselves. I listened to their arguments and at the time it made sense. Until inclu people came by and explained the labels to me.

I was the only one in my friend group who sat down to have a discussion with these people. and their arguments made even more sense and disputed all the arguments my friends came up with!! It was an insane and confusing experience. When you want to be loyal to your friends but something they do is just so morally wrong, you wouldn't know what to do either!

This is where I start to understand, and when I started to become critical of both sides. I thought exclu people were "radical" as well, but being "radinclu" simply just wasn't "radical" to me just for including queer people in the QUEER community, ya know?

At the time even tho my stance was changing and developing, I still fought against mspec lesbians and gays; simply because I was scared of being an outcast, that I'd get harassed by exclu people, that people would be racist to me, etc etc. but I soon learned it was the complete opposite.

AS SOMEBODY WHO IS GAYBIAN, when I was exclu I experienced MASS AMOUNTS of racism; to the point I felt like I had to leave twitter (even after I made my account private). I had people questioning my validity as a native american simply because I was an ignorant homophobe.

Say it with me: IGNORANCE DOES NOT EXCUSE RACISM!!

I even had people calling me a chimp, a creature, I've been called a chimera, I got mass reported, I got called multiple racial slurs, of which not all I could even reclaim, I got called a hermaphrodite, way way more happened. my cc got filled with racism and homophobia too!! all because I was ignorant on the subject.

Not once did I call an inclu person (while I was exclu) any of these horrible things or harass them; I just blocked them and moved on with my day.

I will admit I was a bigot for sure but I would NEVER wish any of these things on anyone.

It doesn't stop there though. when I came out as gaybian, I lost almost ALL of my online friends. I also was closeted irl because I had people at my college getting VERY hostile whenever somebody mentioned you can be a bi lesbian.

Those same people were okay with the idea of being a biplatonic lesbian.

basically, my point here is that even as you evolve and grow as a person, become more accepting of not only others but also yourself; the queer community is extremely divided. Even IF everyone agreed that "contradictory" labels weren't an issue, it still wouldn't stop the heartless attacks we all get as queers on the daily. exclus said the SAME THING about neopronouns and xenogenders 7 years ago that they're saying about mspec lesbians and gays today. AND THAT'S A PROBLEM.

The US is climbing towards eradicating all of us as queers; starting with trans people, and they're slowly inching on towards homosexuality. People WITHIN the queer community are more concerned about how we label ourselves, when we all have our own unique oppression as queers, AND SHARED OPPRESSION AS WELL!!

I've legit heard people saying the hate crimes I've experienced as a gaybian don't actually exist and that I'm overreacting because my identity isn't real.

You know who gets the same thing told to THEM?

Most queers will hear that same quote; ESPECIALLY nonbinary people and trans people in general.

everyone who is queer, is queer. whether you "agree" with the labels or not. we are QUEER for a reason.

[olderthannetfic]

I don't have a problem with poc authors having white characters as the antagonist of a story. Actually I find it really interesting and a good read. No one should be kept away from being an antagonist, ya know.

But just as a mild concrit shouted out into the void: please actually write characters.

Make a racist white character. Bigoted. Homophobic. A slaver. A rapist. An abuser. But make them an actual character, instead of these weird flat objects. There are actually good resources for how to write these character traits.

When reading a book where you write a white character as an antagonist, some authors write in such a way that the white character is less of a character instead of just "the white character" who's evil doesn't stem from being a multifaceted character, but just the fact that they're white.

The character doesn't even have to be multifaceted in way where they're misunderstood, or woobified, they can be evil through and through, they can just be a horrible person who loves being horrible. But do something to make them more than "evil because white."

Why is this character the antagonist? What have they done? What are they doing? What have they said? What will they do? If the main answer is "they're white." then that's not a character, that's just an object placed into the story like a character.

I mean this doesn't just happen with antagonists. I noticed that some people have a problem writing characters who're in any way outside their personal bubble of experience regardless of what role that character holds. A gay person trying to write a bi character. A black person writing a Latino. A disabled wheelchair user writing a blind person. You get the gist. Nothing wrong with having that problem. But it's so noticeable. This happens especially if the writer is uncomfortable with antagonists and what they stand for, like being racist. But if you're going to write someone who's horrible, that is the sacrifice you have to make to actually write a character.

--

I guess on the one hand, turnabout is fair play and we've had many a year of one-note nonwhite villains.

But it does make one's art a lot better to make the villains three-dimensional. A hero is only as awesome as the villain they defeat.

[hamliet]

Saw an argument questioning why Wuthering Heights is taught in school since it's a racist book with harmful stereotypes where the villain is a dark skinned man who wrecks havoc in the lives of civilized white people. Now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that the exact opposite of what the book is doing? I mean not only is Heathcliff not the villain but there's no 'good' people in the book? Everyone is despicable (pretty much) and the book also shows how people's attitude towards Heathcliff changes once he gets rich and becomes a 'gentleman', and how the toxic environment of Wuthering Heights changes a seemingly sweet-natured girl like Isabella for the worse. Also, in the second generation, Hareton, the white boy is the 'savage' and Linton who is Heathcliff's son is the 'gentleman', so again and again it seems like Emily's point is that it's not people's skin color that makes them, but the environment and the way they're treated. But like that discussion had so many people agreeing that I'm questioning my own understanding 😭

(I do get why some people don't like that both Heathcliff and Linton die and the property is returned to the two white families. But also, in a literal sense, he does get his revenge against the two white guys who did him wrong but young Cathy and Hareton had no part in Heathcliff's suffering and they both did develop and became better individuals something which Heathcliff and Catherine failed to do, partly because of their circumstances and partly because they're Heathcliff and Catherine. I'm talking a lot of nonsense but what I'm trying to say is no-one defeats Heathcliff, Heathcliff defeats himself by blindly running after revenge)

Yeah lmao. That's misreading at its unfinest. It's also, frankly, simplistic and anti-intellectual, and to quote what I reblogged yesterday, fundamentally a conservative argument instead of a progressive one.

Heathcliff is human.

That's kinda the point. Heathcliff gets dehumanized by everyone around him, so he becomes Lord Byron basically, which is a human reaction. Like, not everyone reacts to abuse (including racism) in a positive way, and not every story has to be a morality tale. Wuthering Heights is dark and gothic, more tragic than fairy tale. It also never pretends to be anything it isn't.

Anyways, the attitude that because Heathcliff is not a good person means that he's a racist caricature is not actually progressive. That's delving into another racist trope--the idea that the color of a character's skin determines how they can be portrayed.

Heathcliff is a person. Well. He's a character. But he's very, very human, and that's what makes the character so controversial and resonate so deeply centuries later. Readers are intended to wrestle with the novel's themes, with their empathy for the characters and with their horror. Ironically, these kinda of stories are, imo, far more likely to provoke actual progressive personal growth in a reader than a modern YA story that uses characters as tokens.

Look, I'm not out here trying to argue that there's nothing to critique in the classics, or even that someone can't be triggered by this issue and its portrayal in this particular novel. It's still a 19th century English novel. Was it progressive for its time in a lot of ways? Kinda. Was it still a product of its time, though? Yes, absolutely. (So are we all.) Are there elements to criticize regarding its portrayal of race, among other social issues? There definitely are.

To repeat myself, there's plenty to be critiqued. However, to argue that the entire book shouldn't be taught based on this is... no. It's a bad conclusion, and it's a dangerous argument.

The critical thinking skills are so lacking that it's alarming and reflective of the ouroboros of society: the serpent consuming its tail, young people who think they're being very progressive but who are actually just wrapping around to become the exact thing they purport to preach against.

Literature is an art meant to reflect the messiness of humanity. Wuthering Heights is so well-known because it does that very well for a lot of people. Not everyone, but that's okay. If you remove the messiness, you don't have humanity. If you blunt the pain, you're not being honest. If you're not being honest, you're perpetuating the problem.