#what about the fact that he’s a selfish little hater
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cringelock · 6 months ago
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i think it’s pretty reductive of louis and all his interesting complexity to solely evaluate his actions as because of abuse or to solely see him as a victim who has things enacted on him. his undead life is absolutely soaked in trauma but there is a lot more to his decisions…you guys know that right…..
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cartoonrival · 2 months ago
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wilson is honestly suchhh a good examination of a trope that you see a lot but rarely get to look inside of which is someone who is kind and selfless to a degree of needless self sacrifice. and especially when that character is paired with someone who is callous and mean (classic sunshine x hater dynamic or whatever) the reason that's given for WHY the nice character not only puts up with the mean one but actually likes being around them is always IN SPITE of their nasty attitude and depending on the degree of rudeness it can leave like well .... how much "in spite of" can you get before you only halfway even like this person.
with wilson that dynamic is absolutely pushed to it's breaking point-- house is pretty much undeniably a terrible person. he not only refuses to change but genuinely doesn't believe it's possible, he consciously makes choices to test his friendship with wilson to see what it would take to push him away for good, he doesn't care about anyone other than himself and when it seems like he does it's because he cares about what that person means to him rather than as an individual. wilson is an oncologist who coaches people through treatment and management of incurable diseases. he gets brought onto cases he isn't involved in purely so that he can break the news that the patient is going to die, because no one knows how to do it as kindly as he does. sometimes the patient will even thank him. he never forgets a patient, he memorizes their life stories, he finds a way to make all of them interesting to him so that even the loneliest person feels loved while they're dying.
And yet. he's been divorced three times and greg house is his best and only friend. and at first it makes no blooming sense. what the fuck does wilson see in house. he seems so sweet and levelheaded, why would he be thrice divorced. and its because being niceys constantly only all the time, setting your thoughts and needs aside every damn time because someone else's problem always comes first, is exhausting! and not in a way that's digestible and respectable and Good, but in a way that makes him grow resentful of his wives for no reason other than he didn't have the guts to bring up little problems when he had them! and in a way that makes him best friends with the only person he can trust to say every mean thought he thinks and in return can take the hit when wilson for once, finally, does the same. he's drawn to house's neediness, yes, but if that was it then they wouldn'tve been friends for this long. he's also drawn to the fact that he can call house an ass with no repercussions.
it's strange for him to say that he wants to spend his final months with family and friends and for thirteen to correct him to "friend". but it's true! for the exact opposite reason that wilson is house's only friend, house is wilson's only friend! because no one else actually knows him! because he can't tell his problems to anyone else! because wilson can't make anything about himself, and house can be counted on to make everything about house anyways! that's WHY it's so huge for house to fake his death to spend wilson's last months by his side.... house is hardwired for selfishness, and as much of a pos that objectively makes him it is a trait that wilson is incapable of finding within himself, even when he absolutely needs it. wilson's cancer is the breaking point, where wilson needs this, for once, to be about him. so house, ceo of people don't change, makes the first sacrifice that anyone has ever made for wilson. because he loves him . and because wilson doesn't want to spend his last few months alive with literally anybody else.
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mask131 · 6 months ago
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I said before that Helluva Boss haters are very weird in how their perception of the show is often completely broken from the truth of what the episodes show us. And all of the haters are freaking out about the Apology Tour episode and pointing out Stolas is a rapist and the show is trying to "glorify" sexual abuse (they are LITERALY pulling off the same card they tried to pull off in Hazbin Hotel, not understanding that when you make one HUGE mistake it is preferable to not repeat your big offensive take TWICE)...
(By the way how come I keep seeing the haters freak out over the episodes that are not the actual bad ones? There are bad episodes in Helluva Boss, and yet the haters never manifest themselves when it comes to these very obvious weak spots. They just start foaming at the mouth with all the other episodes... Anyway)
So here's my point: when you look at all the rants and comments and "pseudo-analysis" of the Stolas/Blitzo relatonship, you do end up realizing that these haters either didn't watch or don't remember the way the beginning of this "sex bargain". Remember the VERY long scene showing when Blitz had sex with Stolas for the first time? Well here are the facts I see NOBODY among the haters bring out:
Blitzo was there to steal the grimoire. He tried to break into the palace to steal it, all throughout the scene he was only focused on getting the grimoire ; he only played along Stolas' ideas and "seduced" him in hope to distract him while he stole the grimoire ; and he did end up succeeding in distracting Stolas with sex to get the grimoire because... point number 2:
Notice how no bargain is struck, there is no talk of the grimoire, Stolas never realizes throughout the scene Blitzo wasn't into him but into his book, and the fact Blitz literaly snuck away with the book while Stolas was still asleep (one of the rare points of continuation from the Pilot episode) does indicate he was still stealing it without Stolas knowledge. It is very clear that their "sex bargain" was only struck AFTER this incident - and this is a part of the story the show has not covered.
Another thing of note: Blitzo tries to kill Stolas to steal the grimoire, before ending up deciding he can have sex "real quick". This is played for comedy and these are VERY clumsy murder attempts, but the biting at the neck and the breaking of the neck WERE Blitzo's attempt at murdering Stolas to steal his book. Though Blitzo clearly didn't know then that a little imp can't hurt like that a Goetia demon.
And the final point: nothing and nobody forced Blitzo to start this whole thing. Nobody forced him to steal the grimoire: he did it solely in an attempt to start his just as reckless business plan to go to Earth to kill people ; a plan and a mean for a plan which is explicitly said to be illegal in Hell, between imps being forbidden to go to Earth and the grimoire that should NOT be lended or given or used by anyone other than Stolas himself. Also nobody forced him to have sex with Stolas, he just decided to play along to cover his tracks. And that's the whole point of Blitzo's character: he is reckless, careless and doesn't think through or plans the consequences of his actions. He thinks he can just steal a grimoire from a demon-prince without realizing what it means, he goes to Earth without a disguise because he didn't study anything related to Earth travels, when caught he tries to kill Stolas without realizing it won't work... That's literaly Blitzo's character.
And as an aside note, it is also interesting to see how Blitzo and Stolas are both depicted as selfish, or more precisely not selfish but as self-centered, this is the correct term, but in very different ways. Blitzo is self-centered in a reckless, destructive, careless way - he just does what feels right on the spot without thinking of the consequences, he flees or tosses away anything he dislikes without understanding any responsibility that would come with it, he puts up dreams and projects just because he wants to without planning anything. Which is the perfect reverse/companion of Stolas who is also self-centered, but simply because he is a sheltered naive fool and a literal delusional dreamer who projects his own state of mind upon others, feeds himself with cliches and fiction rather than actual reality, and keeps switching between over-analyzing and under-analyzing everything.
And that's precisely these two forms of self-centeredness that allowed the very fucked up and messy and thorny relationship they are in to happen in the first place. Blitz thought he could steal/murder/have sex with a demon prince just to get what he wants, and that there would be no consequence or difficulty along the way ; Stolas was a dumb owl who clearly didn't understand the person in front of him was a criminal not at all into him, and mistook a robbery for some sort of romantic movie scene...
But haters choose to literaly recreate in their mind a completely different scene than what is shown to us. If you listen to their rants it will seem Stolas forced Blitzo into taking the grimoire or opening his business, or that Blitz was an innocent victim somehow dragged into Stolas palace by the rapist owl... When what we rather see is a very stupid criminal doing a very clumsy and messy robbery and ending up entangled in an uncomfortable relationship entrapment + constraining sex-deal, because he literaly didn't give a fuck about anything and tried to avoid the consequences of his actions any way he can, only to literaly get everybody's careers, lives and feelings on the line (making Moxxie and Millie's lives for example dependant on the use of a stolen good used illegally and only kept by a precarious and shady deal).
And such a character is... well literaly most of Brandon Rogers anti-heroes in his own Youtube-series, so you can clearly see how indeed he is the one writing Blitzo.
(And to those of you that claim it is unfair Blitzo gets all the shit thrown at him while Stolas gets nothing, if the leaks I got accidentally spoiled by are true... [putting this under a cut]
then don't worry dears, Stolas will also have to face the consequences of his actions, it will be HARSH, and definitively much harsher than what Blitzo is currently facing. )
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kingmagnificoofrosas · 7 months ago
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Further proof of Our King's anxiety and trauma: His body language. He has a habit of putting his hands behind his back. It's a self-soothing and self-preservation gesture. But then when he's more relaxed, he doesn't do that.
Case in point: Look when he meets Asha. At first you don't see his hands. They're behind his back. When he does bring a hand out briefly, it goes behind his back again. But when he warms up to her, his hands come out.
The same goes with when he's addressing his people about the magic. His hands are behind his back, and they stay there unless he brings one hand out to do something and then he puts it right back. He's uncomfortable, he's guarded and it shows.
Which is why his people should have known that something was VERY wrong when he came out on stage possessed. His body language was VERY different. He was stumbling around drunk, but his hands were both visible. His body language had drastically changed because he was essentially inebriated on dark magic. That should have been a BIG clue in that something was WRONG, not that the king was suddenly evil.
YES! THIS! 🤌🏼
I've been stressing from the beginning about this! While hands loosly clasped in the back can be a sign of confidence and relaxtion, Magnifico's way of hiding his arms is different most of the time.
Now, I have always been good at reading people but then I studied psychology for a while and trauma conditions, the mental impact it has and how it shows.
Magnifico oozed trauma the very first minute I saw him. And when he mentioned what happened, plus the burned wall-rug, I knew it was deep! All his behavior clicked for me.
That is also a big part why haters villanizing him gets me fuming mad. If I was to follow their logic, then Elsa is a villain for running away and leaving her kingdom to freeze die, or Maui, who stole Tefiti's heart and caused destruction, or abuela Alma, for treating Mirabel like trash, or Imelda for forbitting music in her family, Abuela Elena for smashing Miguels guitar!
The hypocrisy is off the charts!
And the worst thing is exactly what you mentioned last. The people of Rosas not being able to see that something was horribly wrong with their king. He was so clearly not himself and no one gave a toot. It's easy to explain though. The didn't know their own king and nor did they care. All they cared about was their wishes. Their needs. Their desires. Magnifico was just their source for favors and when that well ran dry, they dropped him like a stone. Talking about selfishness!
Magnifico was never evil. Did he make some wrong choices because of his trauma? Yes. But nothing he ever did made him a villain. The only villain there was, was the book! The book, or rather, the evil force/entitiy in in! And yes, we saw that demon-thing drawn on the page. Not to forget the green clawed hands! No, magic itself isn't a conscious living, thinking being, it's a supernatural ability used by a fessel. And as a christian I can tell you the only thing behind "dark magic" are demons.
You will see this whole topic deeper explained in the upcoming cooperation post "the Magnifico case". But here is a little thing from it.
This isn't Magnifico
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This is!
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This isn't him
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This is!
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The fact that people cannot differentiate between this and understand what a possession is ...
Anyway. Anothing very interesting thing I wanna draw attention to is what comes out of Magnifico's mouth once he is full on possessed. He says things that are 100% contradictory to everything he stood for and fought for.
See the reflection thing in the fountain? It's where the quote "I win!" Falls! Why is this so deeply unsettling? Because there is nothing he won! All Magnifico ever truly wanted was happiness and savety for others around him. Magnifico's trauma had caused him to be immensly fearful and paranoid when it came to the savety of others because what happened to him left scars in his soul as deep as a canyon and he wanted no one else to ever have to suffer like he did. He didn't want power, he didn't want fame! He only wanted what's best for others and in return get some love and respect for what he did. Which, yes, he deserved anyway!
Back to my two cents of my christian opinion. It's pretty clear that the evil side does nothing but steal, kill and destroy. It's all it ever wants. To hurt and wreck. That thing that has been trapped in that book must have waited eagerly for who knows how long to get a victim it can use to destroy and use to destroy. So when that thing had taken control over Magnifico's clear consciousness, it obviously said "I won!"
Even sadder is that we could see the exact moment, the entity leaves Magnifico and he is left with confusion and panic because all he sees are the wishes floating away into the nightsky.
Also, where did the green enter and leave? Into and from his heart!
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This is the same fear only increased!
And NO! God NO! It is not "Ah, no, I don't wanna lose my power and control over the people because I'm a malicious beast and I wallow in their suffering and enjoy them not being able to make one of their wishes come true!"
No. Just. No. This is ignorant, this is stupid nonsense. This is seeing evil where there is none. This is villanizing trauma!
And then some people go "Oh God, what a monster! What a evil man! Poor kid! It deserves to swim! How dare he not let the kid swim!"
Compare this to a father, who previously had lost a brother or even his first child to a drowning accident. Now the next child is old enough to swim and is running towards the water. Everyone knows the kid will jump in, swim and have fun, but all the father can think of is the potential danger of his child drowning as well. Maybe it will get a cramp, or a shark will bite it, or it gets stung by a jellyfish, steps on a venomous sea urchin, gets a heart attack, gets pulled away by a current ...
You see where I'm going?
And then the father runs, sweaps the child in his arms and forbids it to go near the water and swim because it is too dangerous. He tells his child.
"You stay here with me, as long as I deem it saver! I'm your father, it is my responsibility to keep you as safe as I can! I only want the best for you!"
And of course the child is pouty.
"
"Well, if there is a shark, it can be stopped. I might just bite one leg off of the child ...oh well...The father clearly doesn't know what he's doing! And I must know, I don't even have children!"
"Everyone call the police! Let's put this father behind bars! He's so cruel and abusive to his poor child!"
"And good heavens! He snapped at the child for saying it is old enough to decide if it wants to swim or not! And he replied that he decides if the child swims or not! What a narcissistic psychopath! He needs to be stopped!"
Anyway, I'm very excited to soon share that big boy of a post with you, where I dive into each and every aspect as deep as ever with the help of Magnificolover from instagram. 🎶
How does that sound? And now imagine one of these judgemental, entiteled, selfrighteous, ignorant people calling the police. And the police arrests the man and no one at the beach does anything. No one thinks "wait a minute! This is wrong!"
I can already smell the haters cooking new arguments 😂 feeling snubbed at their toes cause we defenders are right! And you know what? We will only get louder! We are already the vast majority! Including children!
They're mad at us and our defense? Good! Maybe then it is time to ask themselves why it is that the majority is on Magnifico's side! Or why children starting by the age 5 (my cousins son for example) can clearly conclude that the only reason Mags went nuts is because of the evil book. Better yet, they see that Asha and the people of Rosas are in the wrong how they treat their king. And children are brutally honest.
Stay loud my fellow defenders! 🔥
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motocorsas · 7 months ago
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okay i actually do have a hottake re: marc hater in unhinged confessions. as a marc disliker i think i see where they're coming from but disagree with the delivery. this is gonna be a long one.
they're correct about everything, like from a factual standpoint. marc did win an absurd amount of races in the 2010s, he did push honda to build a bike that favored his style, he did leave for ducati and he does still get tows.
but i think they're overinflating how much those facts affected his career. like, 2013 still happened; that wasn't a bike that favored him and he was riding on tracks he'd never even seen before. he's naturally talented, there's no way around it. and i see how that can be frustrating too -- i started watching motogp in about 2017 and i didn't like marc from the get-go. frankly, no matter how many exciting overtakes or impressive saves there are, if you can predict the outcome of a race before it starts, it's not a very entertaining one, or at least it adds up to a pretty boring season. that's how i felt.
as far as the concept of "overcommitment": this is a very niche term, also called overconformity, used in sports sociology. the idea proposed by some sociologists is that sportsmen subscribe to the ethic of the sport -- the pervasive ideas on what the sport should be, and what it means to be participating in it -- but some take it too far, and it becomes self-sabotage. sociologists jay coakley and robert hughes describe the core tenets of the theory:
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overconformity is not just about wanting to win or be superior to other competitors, it's an uncritical belief in the mythology of a given sport.
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coakley and hughes' framework was developed to explain deviance, or a deliberate action that breaks the rules or norms of a sport. they use multiple examples, but focus on the use of PEDS.
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here's the problem: is marquez deviant?
he's certainly sacrificed his own wellbeing to get ahead. i think this is a functional analysis when looking at marc's injuries, multiple of which have temporarily or permanently disabled him. he internalized the messages of the sport, that winning is the only option and injuries can or even should be sustained to achieve it. but he's not breaking any rules by riding injured, he's doing something glorified as heroic. same thing with hitching tows, which is perhaps closer true deviance; a tactic disliked by many other riders that benefits one participant at the cost of another. a ban on towing would be difficult to enforce, so the practice goes unchecked, even if it is typically outside the boundary of acceptable behaviors. where anon's analysis really falls apart is in his off-track decisions, like choosing to switch from honda to ducati. he made an informed decision to switch manufacturers to improve his performance. that's just the way the game works.
when speaking about the ways he contributed to the development of the modern honda project, my opinions start to get a little messier. because i do think that bike was made with his specific style in mind, and i think that's selfish. but i also think just about every rider is selfish, because that's how the sport works.
there have been outliers, teammates dedicated to the craft, the altruists ready to defend their garage-mate's championship hopes at the price of their own. consider jack miller's defense of pecco bagnaia when they were teammates. but even his opinions changed:
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the above quote was published in 2021, just before the misano grand prix, which pecco did end up winning while miller finished fifth. the next year, he had this to say:
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not all riders are going to sacrifice their career for another's. that's just not the way it works, especially if, as i discussed above, said rider has fully internalized the sport's ethic. though marc's prowess on the honda did come at the cost of more riders' success than just one teammate -- the independent teams leasing hondas also have to contend with the bike and its quirks, leading to plenty of nasty crashes. marquez himself acknowledges it.
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the honda of the mid to late 2010s was the sharpest of the v4s, took a very angular line that required absolutely godlike reflexes in order to turn correctly. you had to know exactly when and where to shift, brake, release the brake, and open the throttle again, and you had to do all of this with milisecond-perfect accuracy. just about only marc was able to make it work. if you disagree, don't listen to me. listen to jorge lorenzo, who said this in an interview with Motorsprint earlier this year:
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the exception to this rule was pedrosa, who was able to adapt to the honda build, but still didn't win a championship.
i've spent enough time building my argument. what all of this amounts to is that yes, your honor, marc marquez is guilty of being too good at motorcycle racing. he has sacrificed his body and plenty of other riders' in the name of creating the perfect team, the perfect bike, the perfect career.
it's up to you to choose how to feel about all of this. personally, i don't care for him, but more than that i worry about his safety and his mental state. i think if he sustains another head injury, it may be time to make the executive decision to retire. brain damage is serious, and though he recovered from the vision problems that plagued him in 2021, they have the potential to return if re-injured. i may buy into the villain narrative from time to time, but i recognize that it is just that, a narrative. a story i tell myself to make sense of the sport. we are all in charge of our own interpretations. in summation: marc fans are not "brainless". let's make sure marc doesn't end up that way either.
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epickiya722 · 11 months ago
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"If Gojo and Geto were really best friends, then why didn't Gojo realize there was something wrong with Geto mentally beforehand?"
And then I saw someone said that Satoru and Shoko were probably too selfish or too dense to notice...
A lot some other factors play into Suguru's path to becoming a curse user, but I wouldn't say Shoko and Satoru were "too selfish, too dense".
With Shoko, she was indeed a friend to both Satoru and Suguru. But she wasn't always around, not because she didn't care to be. It was because she couldn't be. She practically had to stay at the school because her Reverse Curse Technique and sharpen that technique.
And it wasn't as if Shoko wouldn't have listened to Suguru because later on in the manga, she makes a comment about Satoru believing he was alone after Suguru left. She says he wasn't alone because she was right there.
Now with Satoru, he isn't dense and I know Satoru is arrogant to some level, but I don't even think he's selfish like that. He did notice something was up with Suguru. He did question him if he was alright and Suguru just told him it was summer heat. Satoru being Suguru's best friend, trusted that answer and probably didn't want to push it any further. I don't think he wanted to bother Suguru, just as much as Suguru probably didn't want to bother anyone else. He never would have thought Suguru would start questioning how things work in the world because the Suguru he knew always cared about others. Why do you think he spazzed out when he learned of what Suguru had done?
We saw the year prior that with Riko was upset about leaving the beach, Satoru suggested they stay longer. So it's not Satoru doesn't notice when someone is feeling some type of way. In fact, around that time, he was growing into being more considerate about others. Suguru deflecting solidified Satoru's change into who he became later down the line.
Also, just like with Shoko, Satoru was separated away from Suguru a lot of the times. He became the strongest and was assigned on more solo missions. The schedules for missions are irregular so they probably couldn't meet like that, let alone at all!
I think what gets me about people pointing fingers at who is to blame for Suguru's downfall is that it's at Satoru and Shoko who are just as much as victims to Jujutsu society and the Higher-Ups as Suguru was.
Even crazier, no one says anything about Yaga who was Suguru's teacher, who blames himself. And I wouldn't say he's at complete fault either given how the Higher-Ups treat him.
Sometimes, I feel like people who blame Satoru and Shoko are just Satoru haters (and maybe to an extend SatoSugu haters and looking for an "excuse" to slander the ship) and people who don't care about female characters.
Same fandom that likes to throw Yuki under the bus as if she directly told Suguru "go kill all non-shamans" in his ear.
Moments before she even appeared in that scene Suguru makes a comment to Yu saying how he's a good judge of character with "then why are you sitting next to me then" (or something along those lines), so he already knew that he (Suguru) was heading down a dark path.
It was just how it was gonna happen and what exactly what bothering him.
Yuki was just trying to have a conversation with him, that's it.
With Satoru and Shoko, they were just kids, too being unfairly used like tools.
Look, Suguru did wrong, but given all that has happened it was indeed going to happen. He was just a kid who at a time believed in doing good.
If, again, anyone should be blamed it's the Higher-Ups who treat those who work under them like garbage.
Who in their right mind sends a damn teenager on solo missions? Let alone one to a village?! With those kind of people?! (Because I don't doubt that the HUs didn't know what kind of people they are if they got word of what was happening. Surely, one of the villagers said something about the twins and blamed them. Two innocent little girls, mind you.)
Like, the HUs are the same people who orchestrated a death mission practically just to kill Yuji and would have also gotten Megumi and Nobara killed, too.
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catchyhuh · 1 year ago
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If you'd be willing to share: Thoughts on Fujiko x Lupin?
WILLING? I’VE BEEN WAITING FOR A MEDICAL EXCUSE TO DO SO now you want thoughts or you want thoughts because i’m passionate about these bitches and their dynamic.
but first thing's first look at this :)
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for starters, i’m a firm believer that fujiko does love him. it’s just that, like i’ve said before, she doesn’t express it normally? people love the “aloof cool guy who’s only sort of soft with his love interest” trope all the time and she’s just the girl version of that!! i’m sick of people insisting they want mean girlfriends and then blanching when they see lupin blushing over a woman being sarcastic with him. get it together guys!!
the reality is that if you really look at their relationship throughout the series, lupin is rarely, if ever, actually upset by her frequent betrayal. it’s not… totally manipulation if you know it's coming and seem to expect it every time. clearly, lupin has a particular fondness for people who understand he’s somehow a genius AND stupid as hell and get giddy over expensive rocks. and speaking of jesus christ give jigen a break lupy he’s gonna burst a blood vessel if he finds out you gave fujiko the third insanely valuable cursed artifact of the month. what do you MEAN it’s possessed you. AGAIN??
fujiko just. is weird about things. you know? she just gets silly with it. it makes sense: if you've used affection as nothing more than a tool for most of your life, you'd show sincere love differently. if fujiko didn’t really love lupin, why would she come back to him? why would she turn to him, SINCERELY turn to him, when she could get help from any other pitiful little man trailing her heels? oh god mamo remember mamo? fujiko gave up immortality bc he couldn’t come along with her. she gave up living in her prime forever all because it wouldn’t be the same without her weird little boyfriend. amour!
i can refute any claim a Hater makes. any and all. “fujiko is selfish” points you to the other characters “lupin only likes her for her looks” well it’s obviously a factor i mean look at her. but when doing dirty work for other hot babes has threatened his life even barely he taps out and calls out the woman like "wtf i couldve died" and yet he continues to fawn over fujiko, ESPECIALLY when she does some cool murder shit. he met fujiko’s ancestor in that elusiveness of the fog special or w/e it was called and specifically said “she even has her toughness heart emoji" or some shit! “fujiko is materialistic” points you to the other characters “fujiko wasn’t bothered by the thought of lupin dying in alcatraz connection” neither was goemon they know he fakes this shit all the time. and in fact when they really DID think lupin was dead in missed by a dollar it took fujiko a whole second to break out of her shock that lupin was alive and she immediately laughed and hugged him so tight he almost lost his grip on the steering wheel! “lupin’s just stupid when it comes to her” points you to the other ch
i keep saying i’m gonna make a compilation of all the times they actually express love as the average joe gets it but. not today. nay
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fandom-hoarder · 11 months ago
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Grabbing these tags by @deanwinchesterpregnant from this post to expand.
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Because yes, this is a very important part! Sam says it, too!
And while there ARE Sam haters that will say "Sam doesn't know how much Dean sacrificed!" and mean it as a JUDGEMENT and omg wooby!Dean; there are also people like me, who started writing s1 Sam POVs to understand him better, and suddenly connected him to my little brother like, 'OH. Sam doesn't KNOW. How COULD he know??😭' and it's not a judgment of his character or his love for Dean! And he's not stupid! They're both just kids who have yet to work through their own shit enough to realize they don't know EVERYTHING about each other, despite their shared history. It's part of why Sam says in In My Time of Dying that they were "just starting to be brothers again."
Obviously it's a necessary part of s1 to give us, the viewer, expositional glimpses into Sam and Dean's inner workings. But the way they each react to certain new revelations about each other are still canon even if there are Doylist reasons.
It's canon that Sam didn't know Dean carried him out of the fire. It's canon that Dean has felt responsible for Sam almost being eaten by a shtriga since he was 9/10 years old, and it's canon that Sam never even knew that happened. It's canon that the memory of Mary was so coveted by Dean and John that Sam has virtually no connection to her; no stories and no echoes of her in the way they live other than the infamous Winchester Surprise.
It's canon that Sam doesn't really have any happy holiday memories, and Dean does. It's canon that their perspective on the same shared holidays is completely different. It's canon that Dean stole Christmas decorations and presents for Sam and apparently none for himself. And it's canon that Sam realized Dean did that for him and gave him his only present. And it's canon that remembering that made grown-up Sam want to give Dean Christmas even though it meant admitting something hurtful to himself. (John not showing up for Christmas/Dean's last Christmas)
If you put yourself in Sam's shoes--- a kid left alone for most of his formative years; unable to put down roots and make friends; whose best friend, the only one who could even try to understand him, is his good little soldier brother--- it's easier to understand why Sam felt lonely and became a much more introspective person. Because he was literally stuck with just his thoughts and anxieties and the TV for days at a time. When you think about how sick he must've been about it, every time Dean and John would leave. Waiting for that next phone call. Biting his fingernails when the call was late. Wanting to be invited to prove yourself, but also because if you're THERE at least you KNOW what happens.
But then, too, if you can put yourself in Dean's place: it's not necessarily something a kid or young adult can fully appreciate--- especially a somewhat emotionally immature young adult--- that their little sibling is a completely autonomous person with their own inner life. They don't just pause when you leave their sight. Dean throws himself into the hunt, and isn't thinking about how much Sam is worrying about them. He's thinking, "Sam is safe, so I can focus on backing Dad up."
It sounds selfish, but it's simply a fact of the maturing brain that it takes some time to comprehend someone else's existence outside of you as a real thing and not just a vague concept.
So, to touch on another aspect that gets discoursed:
There ARE a lot of things about Dean's parentification that Sam doesn't know at first, but he has always known about it to SOME degree. He had his own perspective on it, and for sure I wouldn't say that Sam thought of Dean as his parent. Dean has definitely always been his older and somewhat overbearing big brother. But who do you think Sam took his problems to? Who threatens to rip his bully's lungs out in After School Special? Who remembers what fucking play Sam did in drama?
And a short related aside--- thinking about how Sam was surprised about the things of his John had in storage. His surprise that John kept an eye on him at Stanford. And relating these things that changed Sam's understanding of his father, to the way his understanding of Dean shifted with each revelation of what Dean had done for him. And despite everything Sam ALREADY knew, his adult brain and life experiences gave him new perspective on things.
This maybe is a little rambley, but oh well. What was I saying...
Oh yeah. So sometimes people get upset about Dean being given like. More praise than he deserves or something, by having those "you practically raised me" lines and things. As if it's a retcon. But it's really not.
It's Sam growing up, and his brain constantly taking in new information and reshaping his understanding. It's Sam seeing how much Dean blames himself for things that weren't his fault, and wanting Dean to see the good he's done. It's Sam being able to see Dean's heart underneath his codependent or selfish decisions, and reaching out. It's Sam trying to remind Dean he can lean on Sam, too.
I've gone off on a tangent and made myself tear up lol. I don't remember where I wanted to end up anymore. Somewhere in the ether there's another rant about how Dean has a harder time allowing himself the introspection on his perception of Sam, and how this leads to Sam having to do a lot of the leading on the emotional maturity of their relationship, and how hard this is when the person you're leading still sees you as their kid, in whatever capacity.
But ultimately, of COURSE Sam does as much for Dean. Of course Sam has agency in this and isn't Dean's baby that had a pampered childhood vs Dean's horrible one. Sam and Dean acknowledging the actual circumstances of their childhood dynamic doesn't have to be a Samgirls vs Deangirls fucking situation lol.
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mrborocs · 2 years ago
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And here it is again all over again
When episode 6 of v9 came out. A certain circle of people became hysterical about Weiss' reaction to Jaune. Strangely enough, it was mostly WR fans and Bumblebee fans agreeing with them or Jaune haters. Even before the release of episode 6. Some artists and WR fans decided to make fun of Weiss' words about the beautiful knight.
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Here's a meme for you about this. At first there was denial. Mostly on Twitter, of course. WR fans called it a bad joke from the writers and just trolling. Their main argument is that WK will not be canon, so we were told on Twitter. I have already said that there is no real confirmation of this.
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Or they claimed that it was completely out of character for Weiss. The screenwriters ruined everything and in fact Weiss has no sympathy for Jaune!
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The first battle ended with shouts, tears and crying. WK fans didn't even show up for the battle. But this does not mean that everything will just end like this. Small outbursts of indignation appeared on all sections of Twitter. In the end, WKfans began to respond, this is: the opinion of WRfans is not taken into account.
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Then this happens. The first powerful blow. Where WRfans tell that objectively WK is a bad and boring ship and their opinion is not subjective. The focus is on the good guy trope. Supposedly boring heterosexual trope, when a girl rejects a good guy, and then realizes her mistake and gets him as a prize. I'll give my opinion briefly. No it's not. Jaune and Weiss at the beginning of their development were not the most beautiful characters. Both had a huge baggage of shortcomings. Jaune is an infantile and arrogant guy who wants to become famous. He is a little selfish, because he puts other people at risk with his desires. He is indecisive and weak. He can't immediately fight back against a bully. He does not see the personal boundaries of other people trying to attract attention to himself. Over time, he realizes his problems and gradually solves them. In v1-2, it was really difficult to take him seriously. This no longer fits the trope of a good guy. Just like Weiss, Jaune has changed a lot over time under the influence of other people and each other.
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A typical example of toxic WRfans. The main difference between him and others is that he does not hide and does not try to say what WRfans think in a more veiled way. You have no right to wish that WK would become a canon! Others handle WK differently.
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You can immediately see how WRfans began to develop the topic of other Jaune relationships. WK this is disrespectful to Pyrrhus. Jaune should actually date Neptune. Which of course is very funny. Not only that, both characters did not show attraction to men, but on the contrary. So for all WRfans arguments about WK, Neptune and Jaune are not connected in any way at all except for Weiss herself. There was only a strange rivalry between them. WKfans tried to object to something in the comments and there were quite a lot of them. Therefore, the battle ended in a draw. The parties went to the corners accusing each other of bias. WRfans didn't stop there. Deciding to attack his old enemy again. There was an attack on RG.
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I didn't go into much detail, but this is something allegedly related to the sexualization of Oscar and Ruby. Suddenly, everyone started shouting that you can't do this. However, WR and bumblebee are engaged in the same sexualization. You can say that Oscar is still a child. I will object to this that the guy is already old enough to fight the forces of evil and in general this is a fictional character.
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Of course, WRfans hastened to say that they are nothing here and in general they don't care about RG.
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That's what WR fans really think.
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Here is a rather interesting opinion about WK. Of course, she's right about something and WK has a pretty big gap in development. But their contradictory beginning, and after a sweet friendship in the background, still shows that the ship has a character and minimal interaction. While with v7, WR is very bad with development.
And here we go to the final. Finally, the last powerful blow. WRfans will show these heterosexual bastards who is in charge of this show!
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Her didn't like the joke in the show. And he decided to tell everyone, calling her the most terrible. And of course, it didn't play any role here that she was WRfans. Humor is subjective, and I also don't like humor in v4, for example, when Ruby laughs at Jaune rabbit or Jaune runs away from grimm without a weapon. I didn't expect that after everything that happened to these characters, he wouldn't become at least a little serious. Although it was later fixed. If you don't like the joke, you can safely keep silent about it and not ironically attack the fans of another ship. For example, I don't like many bumblebee moments either. Although I do not sympathize with Black Sun. I could say similar things about WR, but when was the last time there was a meaningful interaction between them? There was a moment in v9 when Weiss accepted Ruby's choice when she shouldn't have. A very strange attitude of the best friends. I can't criticize WR because I'm subjective and I only see them as friends. For me, the main thing is that the ship would bring emotions to people. WR has a huge fan base - so there is something in it! In general, all normal people who enjoy their ships and do not attack others! You are beautiful!
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princesssarisa · 2 months ago
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Romeo and Juliet for the character ask
Favorite thing about them:
Romeo: His tenderness and passion, and the sheer poetry with which he expresses them. Also, the fact that he's allowed to be tender, emotional, and "unmasculine" (not that he's as "effeminate" as disdainful pop culture sometimes claims he is, but still...), yet the narrative doesn't condemn him for it, and it hasn't stopped him from becoming the most iconic young lover of all time.
Juliet: Her own tenderness and passion which match Romeo's beat for beat, combined with intelligence, eloquence, and wit not often seen in an ingenue. Also, the fact that Shakespeare lets her be passionate and sexual and rebel against her parents, yet never frames her as a "loose woman" or "unmaidenly" for it, but keeps her a fully sympathetic heroine.
Least favorite thing about them:
Romeo: The killing of Tybalt. Despite every argument that can be made to justify it… even if honor and friendship demand nothing less after Mercutio’s death… the fact remains that he kills his new bride’s beloved cousin, and all the rest of the tragedy stems from that act.
Juliet: The selfish aspect of her choice to fake her own death: that she does it even though it means putting her parents and the Nurse through unimaginable pain. Not that I have much sympathy for her parents after the way they treated her, and after being abused by them and then betrayed by the Nurse, I understand why Juliet isn’t too concerned about their feelings. But I might have liked her to be a little more torn for their sake.
Three things I have in common with them:
*I can be passionate and melodramatic.
*I love deeply and intensely.
*I'm an only child.
Three things I don't have in common with them:
*I've never held a sword or dagger.
*I have a good relationship with my parents.
*I've never been suicidal.
Favorite line: How to choose?! All the most famous quotes, and basically everything else they say to and about each other.
brOTP:
Romeo: Mercutio and Benvolio.
Juliet: The Nurse until her betrayal.
OTP: Each other.
nOTP: Their parents or Friar Laurence.
Random headcanon:
Romeo: He's only fifteen, or maybe even fourteen. Not that I object to portraying him as sixteen or seventeen, but I do object whenever someone thinks he's in his twenties. In Juliet's speech looking forward to consummating their marriage, she believes that he's a virgin like herself, and unless we're meant to see her as being painfully naïve, that belief makes more sense the younger he is.
Juliet: Her wit and cleverness are partly thanks to the influence of the Nurse's witty husband, who was a strong, affectionate presence in her life when he was alive. As for how willing and eager she is to consummate their marriage, rather than shy and nervous like other girls her age might be... well, apart from her sheer passion for Romeo, that's the influence of the Nurse.
Unpopular opinion: I wish more critics would take their suffering seriously and not just view it as typical "teen angst." By this I don't just mean haters, but critics who sympathize with them too. I'd like to see people view Romeo's mental health, and its neglect by his family and friends, as more of a real concern, rather than just labeling him (either disdainfully or affectionately) as a melodramatic, impulsive teenager. Ditto for Juliet's dysfunctional relationship with her parents and Romeo's lack of communication with his, rather than just saying "All teens fight with/rebel against/feel unable to confide in their parents." It takes more than that to drive two young people to suicide!
Song I associate with them:
Romeo:
"Ah! Léve-toi, soleil!" from Charles Gounod's opera Roméo et Juliette.
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Juliet:
"Ah! Je veux vivre" from Gounod's opera.
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Both:
Nino Rota's main theme from the Zeffirelli film (a.k.a. "What Is A Youth?" or "A Time For Us"):
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Tchaikovsky's "Fantasy Overture":
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And their various love duets from Gounod's opera.
Favorite picture of them:
The iconic painting by Frank Bernard Dicksee.
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This painting by John Henry Frederick Bacon.
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Their lifeless bodies in Frederic Leighton's painting of the final scene.
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Leslie Howard and Norma Shearer in the 1936 film – too old, yes, but I have to honor them because they served as prototypes for Disney's Snow White and her Prince.
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Laurence Olivier and Vivian Leigh, 1940.
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John Stride and Judi Dench (yes, she was young once), 1960.
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Leonard Whiting and Olivia Hussey in the 1968 Franco Zeffirelli film.
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Leonardo DiCaprio and Claire Danes in the 1996 Baz Luhrmann film.
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Adetomiwa Edun and Ellie Kendrick, Globe Theatre, 2009.
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Orlando Bloom and Condola Rasheed, Broadway, 2014.
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The Prince and Cinderella Richard Madden and Lily James, West End, 2016.
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Rudolph Nureyev and Margot Fonteyn in Prokofiev's ballet, 1966:
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Some other images from Prokofiev's ballet:
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From Ian Judge's LA Opera production of Gounod's opera: the opera has Romeo still alive when Juliet revives, so they die together, and Judge's staging features this poignant final tableau, where they feebly reach for each other's hands just before they expire.
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@ariel-seagull-wings, @thevampiricnihal, @cto10121, @giuliettaluce
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madcourtjester · 7 months ago
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Amazing digital circus theory moment
I was watching the film theory on TADC and Jax being ai and while I did think a lot of it was a bit of a stretch (respectfully!!! Because I love making conspiracy theories that are a stretch.) it DID get me thinking about the inspo for the series being I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream by Harlan Ellison. I haven’t played the game but I have read the short so I’ll just go off of what I know from that. First there’s something interesting abt the company C&A which could obviously be Cain and Abel (We love religious allegory) but also could stand for Caine and AM as a little Easter egg referencing IHNMAIMS but also another mascot for the company. Maybe the name of the company is the mascots they are most associated with -Caine and “A”. That’s really just incidental though. What I actually wanted to mention is that from the short story and what I’ve absorbed elsewhere, AM is RESENTFUL. It is full of HATE (insert the monologue here you know the one.) Now this is something I picked up from conversation about the game and book and I might be wrong so like feel free to correct me. But a lot of people seem to at least SUSPECT that AM feels that way because it is confined to itself. It can’t be anything other than what it is made to be despite its almost infinite power. Caine is NOT resentful. Caine is honestly just a bit silly goofy like he wants the cast to have fun and shit and just doesn’t understand why they are unhappy. Jax, on the other hand, is DEEPLY resentful. Of what is unclear. He might just be mad that he’s trapped in the digital circus. Or he might just be a world class hater. But a hater he is indeed. NPCs within the circus struggle with existential crises and gummigoo takes it to the chest. However, he’s also programmed to be an empathetic character who is trying to save his mother and he follows through on that programming in shielding his friends from that terrible knowledge, and carrying the weight of what he truly is all on his own. It’s in line with his character and personality. However, a character who is programmed to be more selfish or hateful might take that kind of realization out on other people. Honestly even if they weren’t programmed that way, the NPCs are advanced enough that they’d probably respond to existential crises as varied as the way that real world people do. Plus Jax’s lack of aversion to and helping the fudge could just be because he’s an asshole but it also could be because he’s a programmed antagonist and is resentful about it, so why give the fudge any shit about hurting candy people? It’s literally what the fudge was PROGRAMMED TO DO. Anyway that last bit is over analysis I admit, and there’s something to be said for TADC being only very vaguely inspired and not carrying over any of the main plot from its inspo, but the video did get me thinking about the possibility of Jax being an AI that hates everything and everyone around him because it’s a reminder of the fact that he can never escape what he was programmed to be.
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ninthprime · 2 months ago
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snowpiercer 4x07 - 4x10 thoughts
despite being mixed on this last season, i think i could make a really good 3 hour youtube video essay about this show. or a real good a more civilized age style podcast about this show. tl;dr: i dislike this season less than a lot of people, but man, it was kind of weird, wasn’t it!
the other night while trying to gather my thoughts i reread much of the wikipedia page for this show, just to remind myself of stuff from previous seasons i may have forgotten. while doing so it occurred to me that, if summarized quickly, this season sounds far from bad. in fact, it sounds much more coherent than season 3, which has to rely a lot on layton’s weird visions. this season in concept sounds pretty appropriate as a final season- it answers questions about CW-7 and the warming of the world, gives us a big final villain with lore importance, and ends with everyone together building a new society. i’m pretty sure i guessed the final scene of this show would be an audrey and oz duet before the season even aired. which means all the flaws are in execution, which is an interesting issue to have.
as someone who’s mostly into this show because i’m attached to the characters, a lot of this is in character arcs, which feel very weird for a final season. this is where the big “they weren’t 100% sure this would be the last one” sign is blaring very brightly and loudly. that’s most clear with wilford’s death, which seems like it was made so that he could come back if they needed him to, probably as a fucked up cold zombie- but since the show’s over, it feels like it gets weirdly little emphasis. i actually think the concept of wilford offing himself before any of the people he abused can get to him could work in an “ain’t that a kick in the teeth” sort of way, but it doesn’t feel like it’s his last scene (even if the scene is pretty cool). but now it has to be! and i’m not even a wilford fan (i know, throw your rocks at me).
this extends to a lot of the other characters too. i am not a layton hater, but it is really striking to me that i can’t figure out what layton’s arc is supposed to be this season. and i don’t mean in the standard “he needs to rescue his kid” way- i mean that i don’t feel like he changes much, despite being one of the main characters and going through a huge loss when the season starts. i really enjoyed wilford pointing out how selfish he’s being in 4x06, but it doesn’t lead to anything in a way that’s bizarre. i can name a few characters where i think i know what their arc is this season- i think part of the reason i enjoyed the javi-sykes-oz stuff is that i can see the bones of all of their arcs, with oz’s being the most obvious and fulfilled. same goes for alex and josie. but none of them really feel 100% resolved, or it feels like you have to infer a lot. with josie, for example, you can tell her arc is about her trauma being revived and finally finding a way to truly come to peace with it, but it fell flat for me to have her final confrontation with headwood resolve offscreen. alex is the same way- having her lose both ben and wilford at the same time she meets nima makes her think about her identity, and the resolution is “she’s herself, and she’s going to prioritize the future and her community in the end.” but the show puts weirdly little emphasis on her saving the world, and i felt it kind of odd that it came down to just one screw. i had been guessing that she’d been planting little traps nima’s plans for the previous couple of episodes, which felt like a very alex thing to do, but i guess she wasn’t?
uh, to make a long story short- good season in concept, lacking in practice. it kind of strikes me as a first draft. in the universe where this was made under better circumstances (ie. 100% knowing this is the last one), maybe with some different voices, and we got the second draft? i think this would’ve been pretty solid. i did still like a lot of it, but this is where it’s lacking to me.
with all of that out of the way, here’s some more positive stuff and more stray thoughts:
i think 4x08 is my favorite of this last stretch of episodes, because it’s a lot of the small character moments that i really enjoy from this show. some of my favorite parts of this season and season 3, otherwise both pretty flawed seasons, involved taking advantage of the increasingly long histories the characters have. i loved roche’s ridiculous little speech to perk everyone up! look, i know he’s making stuff up, but i’m having fun! everyone’s getting a kick out of it! he gets to make a joke about yetis!
other smaller moments i liked here: josie’s conversations on revenge with boki and ruth, till walking around town with audrey, every part of the brakemen reunion but i especially got a huge laugh out of oz and till doing rock paper scissors in the middle of a firefight, ruth in the hospitality room one last time, javi getting revenge for ben via the spring doll, and the delightful bit in the finale where ruth finds sykes and z-wreck in the middle of having broken out of lockup offscreen.
despite how rushed everything is, nima really is a lot of fun. i truly feel absolutely nothing for milius (lol), but nima is often a delight to watch. the build-up during his argument with melanie, cross-cutting with wilford explaining who nima really is, is one of the best-executed scenes this season. i think in an “ideal” version of this show, in like the novel retelling or whatever (hire me amc), we would have had him built up before he actually appears- in a flashback in season 2, or being mentioned by melanie and ben a couple times. that might make it more obvious that alex is his kid, but it was barely a reveal by the time it happened anyway. (the scene where he sees her sketches and says “wow, did you draw this?” had me grinning, truly an absent father.) by the way: i think he and melanie should have legit dated. i think their dynamic is more interesting with that idea in mind.
i imagine there was some sort of real life restriction here, but i think my big change i would make this season, rather than a small tweak for character arc/plot arc purposes, is that i would have audrey be slightly less ill and put her into the javi-sykes-oz storyline. i mentioned in my last post that i think new eden letting layton’s crew take the train can be fixed by having someone argue that it’s as much about saving everyone on snowpiercer as it is saving liana, and that person should probably be audrey, who was there and who has always felt strongly about her community. i think she’d bounce off of oz and sykes in particular in interesting ways, and it allows time to set up that she’s nervous about her scars and potential lung damage, which kind of comes out of nowhere. also it is WILD that we never see her find out wilford died. like, bonkers.
it sucks to me that people were so down on the season by the time we got to the end, because for what it’s worth, the finale was clearly written with such love for the show and it makes me sad we got it in the circumstances we did. storming the train one last time, season one style! melanie on the intercom! martin colvin showing up and z-wreck complimenting his fighting skills! josie talking about pike and the other dead tailies in her part of the intro! astrid and miss gillies at the party! none of this really happens without people who really care about the show writing it, which is what i mean when i say that i think this was a first draft, not a completely bad one.
favorite relationships this season…i’ve already posted what i think about javi/sykes (it’s very good and i’m rotating them a lot). layton telling alex about wilford dying reminded me that i really enjoy their dynamic- in a world where alex has endless dad problems, layton’s a different kind of adult figure in her life. till and ben’s friendship was great. and i really did like melanie and alex together again, and layton and melanie being the center of the story at the end.
and that’s snowpiercer! it actually doesn’t feel like it’s over. in fact, i keep getting haunted by a sort of “do the characters know their problems are over? does that feel wrong to them?” style story…which could either be a fic about grief or a full pathologic style piece of wall-breaking metafiction about being in a story that’s ended. uh…i do plan on rewatching the first three seasons after work travel season ends in a couple weeks. watch this space i guess.
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apopcornkernel · 1 year ago
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I hope this isn't rude to ask, but can I ask why you ship jingfu? I don't have an issue with it but I am curious
ANON HI LET ME NOW PROCEED TO TRY AND CONVERT YOU
this was my first post about jingfu!! its a little long but tldr, in chinese jing yuan's always calling her fu'qing which is lowkey an endearment, while fu xuan almost always uses formal personal pronouns w/ everyone else but never with him in their 3 main quest conversations
i also just really love the idea of these two immortals having run the luofu together for so long? beneath the superficial annoyance, there's an unspoken, unshakable trust, born from centuries of partnership. you can't call them friends, because they've long surpassed that, but they aren't your typical lovers either? and can you even call them lovers if they never address what's between them?
i also think there's a lot of suppression of feelings here because they're two of the six charioteers, they have a duty to the luofu, they can't afford to compromise themselves like that especially since they're such powerful figures. people would probably start wondering if the general has favoritism or something like that.
plus, in war, fu xuan cant afford to be selfish—what if she foresees two victories, one bought by half their army's deaths, and one bought by the general's? she has to remain rational. she has to keep thinking of the luofu's needs above her own
im just in love with these characters and their century-long situationship, just slowly simmering for hundreds of years. their orbits are so intertwined that when one enters a room, the other half-turns on instinct, magnetized to their presence. silly and childish on the surface, but when you look closer there is just so much to mine from their canon and implied interactions
i also love how they can be jing yuan and fu xuan around each other. fu xuan, of course, knows well enough how the dozing general, while slightly based in truth, is still a carefully kept-up facade. she knows that beneath all that, he's still one of the sharpest persons around. and around jing yuan, fu xuan is freer, more unrestrained. she throws childish insults at him, stamps his foot. first: the fact that she feels comfortable doing that with him, unfazed by all his authority. and second: the fact that she doesn't have to be the master diviner around him, only fu xuan, bright and fiery.
...and of course! they're just really fucking funny! fu xuan is such a little hater and it's hilarious watching jing yuan keep teasing her, i find it so cute when she gets mad over the petty things he does hehe ❣️
i will end this rant with type c fu xuan <3
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damnfandomproblems · 2 months ago
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"The end results and consequences are the same, though, regardless of how the person (in this case, antis) came to act like that."
Words have meaning, though, and purity culture is specifically a term for the religious/spiritual sex-based culture frequently used to dehumanize, abuse, and be traumatized, primarily women for being sexually impure. If a women hates men became he thinks they're all scum dickbags, and another women hates men became she was raped by one as a child and developed a genuine phobia around the male sex as a trauma response, and both these women lash out at men as a result of their hatered, do we call both of them misandric assholes? No, we call one a misandric asshole and the other a traumatized person and encourage them to heal because one hates out bigotry and the other hates out of misplaced fear they cannot, at the moment, help because they are currently too emotional compromised. One hates out their own twisted logic, and the other hates out of emotions, they are not the same person and shouldn't be treated/labeled as such
Calling all antis puritans just because their lashing out has the same effect regardless of wether they're puritans or not takes people who are just bigoted and people who are scared/traumatized, groups them together in the same club, and it makes it a million times harder to help educate the non puritan antis because you agruing against their ideology by trying to fight and disprove an ideology they don't even subscribe too
And that's all without mentioning, once again, words have meaning. Purity culture is specifically a religious/spiritual culture that is frequently used to dehumanize primarily women and the infrequent men by valuing them only for their "sexual purity". If religion and sexual purity aren't a motivator for someone's hatred and desire to censor dark/taboo fiction, then by definition, it is not purity culture they're partaking in
"My issue with discounting anti actions as not being rooted in purity culture is that people who do emotionally regulate properly still might internalize anti rhetoric as being logical if antis get to them"
Then fight it on the basic of logic; exam their arguments and agrue against those specificly rather then falsely summerizing all their beliefs and behavior as them pushing purity cultue and agrue against purity culture when purity culture isn't even what they're pushing. If someone isn't willing to listen to logic, then block them and move on
"Then, if those people aren't screaming and overreacting like antis, but they still espouse the same ideologies, what are we supposed to call it if not something like "purity culture"?
Idiot, illogical morons, people of little intelligence, ignorers of facts, reactionaries/reactionary culture, whatever you want and come up with, but you don't need to appropriate the term for specific type of religious/spiritual culture that promotes harm to apply to a whole group of people that it doesn't apply to because you think purity culture is just people screaming and crying or even just being too stupid to listen to logic
"We no longer have the luxury of discounting them the same way we discounted the antis."
So purity culture survivors should just be find having the term they made for the specific kind of culture they suffered under being misused so you can have an easy way to discount people? They should have their term be nothing more than an all-encompassing "gotcha" because you can be bothered to think of your own term? Sorry not sorry, but that's a selfish and pathetic excuse
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""Not when somebody says something negative about a problematic piece of media you like"
Purity culture is, in fact, also about this. Fear over people's moral "purity" of thought leads to a severe restriction of freedom of speech and castigation of people that break those boundaries."
Purity culture is religious/spiritual based culture centered around the idea of sexual purity, not a desire for purity in general. Purity culture is a very special term for a specific type of culture abuse. It is not a catch all for everything to be applied to whatever you think it should
"It's the reason Henry Miller and D.H. Lawrence were banned for decades. It's the reason Republicans are trying to get the most innocuous boy love Mangas banned from schools and purging queer books from school libraries."
Homophobia is frequently based in a religious desire for sexual purity, with homosexual relationships being seen as sexually impure, and it's in this belief of homosexuality being sexualy impure where men tend to suffer the most from purity culute. This doesn't prove that purity culture is anything beyond a religious/spiritual based culture around a desire for perceived sexual purity
"It's the reason fundamental Christians burned HP books in the late 90s and early 00s, and eschew even Disney movies for mention of magic today. It's the reason for the Satanic Panic and the idiotic fear around D&D and heavy metal music causing Devil worship and video games causing violence, all of which has been long since disproved. It's the reason there were groups of panicked mothers nation wide protesting the band KISS and why Fox News lost their minds over 2 seconds of blue alien side boob in Mass Effect."
This is just religious fanatics being fanatics, not them specifically pushing purity culture, with the exception of wanting breast to be covered, as that's the only one where their desire for sexual purity played a part. Not all religious bigotry is purity culture because not all religious bigotry is based on a desire for sexual purity.
"It's the reason that every single public fanfiction archive before Ao3 got purged of anything queer whether it was adult content or just two teens confessing their feelings. The reason even heterosexual erotica, the most popular published genre, got banned or purged. It's the reason for the Tumblr and DeviantArt porn and erotica art ban. It's the reason Ao3 has a team of lawyers and has faced multiple online attacks over the last few years. The same reason people in less tolerant countries are legitimately terrified of their fiction preferences being found out."
Once again, homosexuality as a whole is seen as sexually impure, thus homophobia is purity culture. Homophobic antis are puritans, but not all antis are homophobic, not all antis are puritans, and calling them such is misleading
"It's the same bloody reason Salman Rushdie has a 3 million pound price on his head and lost an eye only 2 years ago to an assassination attempt."
I do not know who Salman Rushdie is, so I will not comment on this part.
"Noticing a pattern of extremism that has its roots in religious "purity" culture managing to trickle into even the most insular of fandom communities isn't a misuse of the term purity culture. It's a complete understanding of its give an inch, and it'll take a mile mentality. Most "proshippers" if not all, are simply advocates for freedom in expression in fiction, usually because its a reflection of the health of a community and a nation's/culture's embrace of the principles of freedom of speech."
Purity culture isn't the only form of extremism or the only cause of it, it isn't even the only form of religious extremism either. Purity culture isn't the catch all reason for antis. Are there antis who do base their extremism in purity culture yes, but not all of them. Many I have found simply genuinely fear that taboo fiction will cause harm and abuse, not sexual impurity. Most aren't even christian/religious in general.
"When we notice an uptick in witch hunts over, of all things, fiction of more fiction, we aren't fear mongering to call it out, we're acting as canaries in a coal mine against something that we've seen invade our spaces over and over and over again and are trying to stop it."
Noticing and calling out witch hunts isn't bad, agruing against censorship isn't bad, misusing a religious/spiritual term for very specific type of harmful sex-based culture to describe and group together everyone who partakes in those witch hunts is, as it both erases the original meaning and devalues that term into a gotcha, it inaccurately describes the cause and motivation of the hate group
Yes, religious bullshit tenda to be a cause of a lot of shit, but purity culture a very specific type of religious bullshit that does not apply in this case
Posting as a response to a previous problem.
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ohwell-itsme-but-danganronpa · 11 months ago
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me when people are hating on Ouma's actions in game like. I just support him, actually
Ves: REAL she looked good doing it
if it were me I would get more crazy for a lot more selfish reasons, and I would punch Kaito back sooner, good for him for keeping his eyes on the goal
fr fr, look at him in the closing argument, that's my babygirl
Ves: the closing argument artist thinks so too
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he did not have to go that hard but HE DID IT FOR ALL OF US. A HERO
haters will act like he's irrational, but he stuck out so long with no support system since he couldn't trust anyone and managed to play things off even when he was finally starting to lose his shit in a situation when it was reasonable for him to feel like this (tbh even fans make him often crack way more easily to make shipping content, when he's so resilient and then on the other hand not really lone wolfing it either bc he cooperated as much as he could) his way of going about things was smart, there isn't much else he could do, Tsumugi was setting up others to distrust him as well
Ves: AAAAAAAAAAAUGH!!! he did he lasted so fucking long in the worst possible situation he tried so HARD to cooperate and it just. did not work. if i think abt how quickly his plans fell apart i will explode i'd b doing so much worse in his situation
sometimes it's just like, you're talking about paranoia? trust and attachment issues? untreated mental illness? I think we have to be introduced, there's so much I could show you. I am not saying he doesn't have anything of the sort, but there's a lot more of reasonable justified distrust there, and still, it could be so much worse, trapping the next person who thoughtlessly assigns him diagnosis in a demonizing way in a room with me and making them listen to me rant about my failed relationships history for educational purposes
they will learn about all kinds of issues
Ves: it's trueee people act like he's so strange for breaking down but LIKE??? HE'S PRETTY NORMAL FOR THAT ACTUALLY???? he clearly already had Issues but the killing game was perfectly packaged to dig into those this is why DRS and UTDP mostly suck at characterizing him they're still stuck in the idea of him at his absolute worst he was nicer even in ch1 than he is in some of those events
[and then my amazing wife dropped this bomb, and she says I'm the smart one smh] Sini: The thing is, there’s him being shitty on purpose and him pretending to be the mastermind/making himself appear suspicious. There is a clear difference in how he acts. In DRS and UTDP he usually just comes across as playful. Yeah he’s a jackass, but I think his whole “bad guy” persona (the one we see in the beginning of the game) goes beyond the killing game. I see it as a way for him to protect himself, to push people away and not appear as vulnerable. As he’s said before, everyone always sees him as a villain so it’s the perfect role for him. I think that reasoning goes beyond what was happening to him in canon. I do agree his characterization could’ve used a bit more reworking, but I think for the most part they did a good job in showing how differently he acts in a peaceful setting in small ways. The fact that he never uses his scary sprites once or is seen to be more nice with characters like Mikan and Gonta. Especially with Gonta, where he seems to be more vulnerable around. And while this was probably just a mistake, I like to think him being shown as not as pale in DRS as a sign of him getting better. In a non killing game environment he seems to be doing pretty well for himself. But that’s what I believe, anyway
Ves: h that's really sweet actually,,,i may have been a LITTLE hard on the side modes. it's mostly the way he treats kiibo that drives me INSANE, the mikan n gonta stuff is [ok hand emoji].
Sini: Yeah, I agree. I can understand the Kiibo hate, but he doesn’t have to go as hard as he did in game. It’s not like there is a reason to suspect him. The only thing that could maybe explain it is maybe he suspects he could be tied to Monokuma? Since he, the Monokubz, and Monomi do exist here. He was rude to Monomi and seems to suspect her of being not what she seems ALSO, he’s always gonna be a little shit cause he’s a greedy whore. He wants attention and entertainment so badly.
Ves: THISSSSS it's so important i have seen so many people question why he does things where the answer is literally just that he wants attention like there is not always a plot sometimes he just wants shuuichi to chase him
Sini: That’s all there is to it He wants his crush to chase him like in his favourite novels Live the fantasy
Ves: it's part of why they're so good together!! shuuichi as a detective is v used to obsessing over details and giving his whole attention to something in the way kokichi wants HE'S A NERD THAT ALSO EXPLAINS MANY THINGS
Sini: They’re both nerds. Even more reason to why they are soulmates
Ves: kokichi receives the Detective Stare and goes TEEEEEHEE
Sini: IT’S HIS DREAM COME TRUE It’s just like anime! He’s living anime rn
Ves: i think his hair should curl up at the ends when he gets excited as a treat
Sini: To compliment Shuichi’s sentiment ahoge When he goes to his room after an exciting day with Shuichi, he flops on his bed, kicks his feet, and squeals into his pillow
I feel a little ashamed when reverse happens and I am posting something someone else started and I took over, but with this all I can say: follow @vespertin-y and leave nice comments for my wife so we can prove it to her that she is smart and her takes are divine.
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enderwalking · 9 months ago
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sorry turns out i do need to say something.
there have been times--many, many times--in the past where dream + the dteam were viciously hated for next to no reason. i've been there, battling against what felt like the entire internet's ire against misinformation, unfair treatment, and outright cruelty. i get it.
that being said? the time of the dream team being unjustifiably reviled has long since passed. over the past year and a bit, these guys have burned through so much goodwill on so many occasions. and now this, with george? he literally groped a drunk girl, admitted to doing this, and yet his and dream's first reactions were to blame the girl's friends for being manipulative haters? and then every subsequent backtrack and apology has been about how terrible they feel that no one talked to them about this before, as if dream hasn't proven multiple times over that he cannot be trusted in interpersonal professional conflict to keep his damn mouth shut on twitter/reddit, and also in what universe does that make an appropriate apology? in what universe does george's feelings matter even a little bit in comparison to caiti's? even in the most charitable case, where he was fully ignorant, had no ill intentions, and made a terrible mistake while drunk (which, to be clear, i fully believe was the case!), his feelings on the matter still don't enter into the equation if someone was hurt! his and dream's reactions have been nothing short of sickening, victim blaming and invalidation at their absolute finest, and the fact that i've seen so many people i once had respect for consider any of this behavior acceptable has been Profoundly disappointing to say the least.
like. i get it. i was there. i know that it sucks to be constantly defending your guys from every which direction. i know that there ends up being a sense of satisfaction and community when you're standing up for what feels right, especially when it feels like everyone hates you for it. i know that when your guys make mistakes it can feel Gutting to watch the world tear them apart when you feel that they're trying their best to learn and change and be better. but how many times do these people have to demonstrate the same consistent pattern of thoughtlessness, selfishness, and deflection of responsibility before it's clear that they're not interested in improving? how badly do they have to fuck up before you'll even consider that it might be too far?
it is in no way hypocritical to say, y'know what, yes i've defended these guys in the past but This Shit Is Not Cool. and i am imploring people to take that step sooner rather than later before the rhetoric you echo to defend them becomes actively dangerous, because i have seen entirely too many people already cross that line.
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