#well they do hate all trans people but its more specifically targeted to trans women i should say

[yamat0]

regarding my last reblog something ive noticed is once someone is convinced they don't want to listen or think critically about a post (that's usually made by a lesbian) they'll just loudly announce the op is a terf even when the poster isn't a terf/clearly states they aren't a terf/the post doesn't have anything to do with terfs like is it really that much easier to stick your head in the sand instead of just idk moving on? especially if you're already convinced everyone you disagree with or hurts your feelings is a terf (which in and of itself is extremely detrimental to feminism and society as a whole and what terfs are clamoring to have happen! they want everyone to stop talking about feminism! and you're falling right into their playbook by doing their dirty work for them!)

[milkweedman]

some more feedback on the glittery terf repellant... I like the concept but i think that it reads a bit like an anti-misandry thing rather than an anti-transphobia thing. specifically bc of the "the existence of men" one - terfs don't have a problem with men, they're a hate group targeting specifically trans women. so it sounds as tho ur saying trans women = men, or that it's not even about terfs, but rather a statement from a "men's rights activist". hope that makes sense!

it is an anti-misandry thing.

if you think its impossible to be anti-misandry without being an MRA then im not sure i can help you. do you think that the mere existence of men DOES threaten people ? do you believe that the world would be a safer place if it was only women ? interesting. where have we heard that before...

this isn't directed at you specifically but rather at everybody who keeps misreading things, but:

Yes, radfems absolutely do hate men. The statement above is something they say, it's part of the propaganda they spread. If terfs specifically are somehow pro-men but anti trans-women (they're not, but lets pretend) then fine--I've never been talking about terfs, I've been talking about radfems. This entire time I've said radfems and nearly everyone talking to me has said terfs back. They're not the same thing--all terfs are radfems but not all radfems are terfs.

Radfems do hate men. I have no idea where you got the concept that they're fine with them. I've read a lot of their rhetoric over the years, both as research and as poison that seeped into popular culture and queer culture as well.

That is why my initial attempt at radfem proofing a post was to write: WARNING OP LOVES COCK THIS POST IS ABOUT COCK. ITS SO GOOD AND BEAUTIFUL ❤️ GOOD MORNING TO PENISES EVERYWHERE

Frankly, I have seen radfems still reblog things that are trans-positive, because they don't fucking care. I have never seen them reblog something praising how beautiful cock is though--presumably because it just disgusts them, but who knows why.

Anyway. Who exactly do you think "the existence of men does not threaten anybody" is for ? Who do you think would disagree with that statement, and why do you think I have been using it ?

I can give you some hints--anybody who is a gender separatist, or who believes men are inherently dangerous, is going to strongly disagree with that statement. Please look into what type of person that is, and what other things they believe, and then we can continue this discussion if you want. But certainly not until then.

Additionally, I fully intend to keep using my main banners, and just adding in one trans related banner due to the feedback that it could be misconstrued. Im not switching to just trans banners. This is both a space that is safe for men, and for trans people.

[gepperl]

TRANS MALE PASSING PROTIPS

Targeted specifically at trans men who have not begun medical transition, but for anyone. Of course, this is just what works for me and everyone is different.

Shorts that fall mid thigh and are baggy can work really well to make a more masculine figure. This is a trendy style with cis men, and if they are looser on your thighs you can look more rectangular. Basketball shorts are always fine, but for bigger people can end up sticking to your thighs and making you look like a masc lesbian. Looking like a masc lesbian is so so common guys this is what we are trying to avoid. See here for reference

2. WALK WITH YOUR SHOULDERS. Walk like your shoulders are the widest part of your body. Move them kinda forward and backward. Watch a video of a man walking next to a woman for context on what I mean. Women walk with their hips, and it makes all the difference for you in someone's head. Practice in the mirror before doing it so you don't look like a fool.

3. Hair!!!! I know you guys don't want to let go of the 2020 fluffy boi haircut and that is ok. If you don't want a skin fade short haircut, there are other options. Also, if you belong to a subculture, like punk/emo/whatever else there is, look at male styles as it can be very different than what is normally accepted ( for example, men have long hair in metal subculture, you can style it like them). In general, hair is very meticulous, as for some people too short is masc lesbian and too long is woman.

This kind of hair can do wonders. For men of color/curly hair people, if you are not out locs are a very good option as they are typically read as masculine but are gender neutral. Afros, braids, even skin fades with a lot of hair at the top can read feminine. Another style option could be short cornrows that end at the neck, twists, or a fade with less hair at the top like this.

I am not black, so I cannot speak for how this would be read in a black community, but this is how, from my experience, I would view the hairstyles. Sorry if this is not appropriate. Also, I am not here to tell you not to dye your hair. It can work if you style it with masculine clothes and are dressed in a specific style like emo or scene or something. Do what you will with that.

4. If there is ANY peach fuzz on your face, make the most of it. I know I have high testosterone levels naturally, so I grow facial hair a little, but if there is enough to dye it, dye it. If there is like barely any, if its not visible in the mirror if you're really looking (not INSPECTING), it's probably not worth it, and that is fine. use your judgement, and if it is not enough, just shave it. It's better to look clean shaven than desperate for face hair. Eyebrows, mustache hair, sideburns can all be darkened with eyeshadow, brow brushes, and just for men beard dye.

5. LAYERS. I know you guys have seen this one before. Flannels, button ups over black t-shirts, zip up hoodies. It might get a little hot, but it covers your sweat stains anyways. I promise guys it helps so much with shoulders, hips, boobs, it makes you look more masculine. Don't get that ugly ass red and black checkered one though. Think if you would see a masc lesbian wearing it and use your best judgement. I heart layers.

6. Pants. Woah. Pants. I HATE pants I know you fat trans men get me. Old navy women's jeans...and you guys won't like this one...are actually pretty good. SPECIFICALLY the sky high wide leg ones. Get those a size up and cuff them, wear them low on your waist, perfect. Other than that, jeans are shit. I don't really waste my time with men's pants anymore because of my hips but cargos are great, baggy sweats with the band at the bottom are great, PJ pants good, dress pants are a struggle but I've heard dickies work well for people with a smaller body. Not sure though. My tactic is I go to a thrift store for hours and try on all their pants, then find similar ones online or take pictures of the brand for the ones I like and find more.

7. Accessories and jewelry. Iffy. Anything you could describe as dainty, if it's not a family thing or important to you, probably not. Friendship bracelets are good, pendants are good, earrings depends on where you are and what you are wearing. Studs in men are common where I am, so I wear them. Observe the cis men at your disposal. Accessories, bags don't really matter unless they're like the strawberry hot topic mini bags. Don't get those at all those are fugly. Mini bags are not great in general, just better to get something else. Watches are heavily loved here they look very male and also you have the time always even a cheap watch is fine just not a woman's watch. It has to be a men's watch. You can tell when it is a woman's watch don't get those. Nail polish is fine no one cares, it's more popular now with boys. Especially if you're a little girly pop already. Of course that also depends on your environment.

8. Stance. Sitting with your ankle on your knee is comfortable and way more masculine than crossing your legs. Confidence. Fake it until you make it because cis men are so arrogant guys. This is what I mean btw

9. Don't be afraid of being feminine. Don't give up being yourself in order to be masculine. Your happiness matters the most. Love you bye, I'll update this if I think of anything else.

[dayvan]

About people on this site hating transmen, I wanted to say I'm transfem (although extremely closeted) (red state, and not independent...) but like I delayed coming to that realization for a longer time than I should have because it seemed like every time I looked at a popular transfem blogger on this site they just hated transmen so it kind of pushed me away because I didn't feel that way... It really bothers me because I have a lot of transmasc mutuals (and finally found non-infighting wonderful transfem mutuals as well) and I love all them, and am genuinely really bothered by the infighting that just... I don't understand the purpose of or what it accomplishes other than making us easier targets... Anyways from this #girl <3 you transmen and mascs!

WE LOVE YOU TOO!!! and i totally get where youre coming from, its a good thing you didnt let it completely stop you because i cannot stress enough how this infighting bullshit is EXTREMELY online

I've had trans women and transfeminine people in my life for years, including childhood friends, and not once has this been something that created any tension between me and them or between them and their other transmasculine friends. i started taking very long recurring breaks from tumblr circa 2018 and when i came back and actually started engaging with other users again i noticed that tumblr developed an immense bubble/echo chamber problem since then, specifically with jaded trans and gay people.

i definitely think a lot of the downright extreme discourse opinions we're seeing are a result of too much time spent surrounded by the same group of very similar people constantly patting each others asses over escalating resentful 'takes' that they posted for validation in the first place. it's a vicious cycle that encourages more and more resentment and bitterness..

i don't think these people are inherently bad or malicious, i think they're misguided and stuck in a feedback loop with an antisocial coping mechanism. if i could talk to them now i would urge them to go outside more and look at people in their eyes more often, even if the people they see aren't necessarily queer. just being exposed to other people in the real world and their multifaceted lives can do a lot to keep you from always assuming the worst about others, and it's a nice reminder that you're not the protagonist of life or gay people.

[villainessbian]

Hello. Sorry if this question will be too controversial for you, I understand.

You seem like a well studied person, so I wanted to ask if you could help me research something I don't know where to start with.

Recently I've seen a growing discourse on twitter about... Whether trans women or trans men are more oppressed. And in my opinion, measuring the degree of oppression is very easy! But no-one in this discourse is doing that. You can do so by looking at the rate of poverty among different genders of trans people, and which group experiences more crime directed at them, and which group is more happy.

But I'm not sure how to find the research for that. I'm not an academic. Do you think you could help me?

Thank you 💗

Measuring the degree of oppression is not easy, I don't think these stats exist at all (because who would pay for them? no one with that kind of money wants us alive), and oppression is not the olympics.

Discourse-y things under the cut.

In my experience transfems seem to be "more oppressed" in the sense that the pressure to oppress transfems is stronger. Everyone agrees transfems are the ones that the overwhelming majority of discourse targets, even the people who disagree with the conclusion and say that this is proof of invisibility of non-transfem trans people. Find a random act of transphobic hate, and the likelihood that the person who did it even knows transmasc people exist to be a target isn't very high. Look at the "accidental ally" posts and 99.9% of them is bigots trying to be transmisogynistic at transmascs because they're used to transmisogyny.

And the final point - transmisogyny exists as a separate thing. Transphobia targeted at transfems, transphobia targeted at transmascs, generic transphobia targeted at everyone are three different expressions of the same thing. Transmisogyny is a separate thing on the side, and the attemps to mirror it with "transmisandry" or "transandrophobia" all just point to the aforementioned "transphobia targeted at transmascs" and nothing different, nothing specific. Transmisogyny stands "on its own" in a way, though it is specifically the interplay of transphobia and misogyny into creating something new. The way trans women (and transfems in general) are simultaneously not believable victims, easy victims, and "no, actually perpetrators" of interpersonal violence, especially sexual violence. It coexists *all at the same time* in people's minds that trans women are not women, and that desires that target women can and do target trans women. That trans women hold less power than other women to stop you doing whatever, but also that they hold more power than you on what you do so they're responsible for what you do to them. That trans women are dangerous, and that they're the easiest demographic to focus on for an attack. The theory that they're part of a secret cabal to control the world ("cabal" used on purpose - this theory HEAVILY overlaps with anti-semitism) coexists with the knowledge you can call cops on trans women and endanger their lives instantly even if you were aggressing them. When KJK/posie parker had her rally and Nazis showed up sieg heiling with a "destroy pedo freaks" poster, "pedo freaks" was aimed at trans women specifically. Hell, the terf rhetoric that does target transmascs specifically (all the lost lesbian/brainwashed autist/permanent damage to sweet kids/etc bullshit) assumes more often than not - if not always - that transmascs are passive victims of the horribleterrible "trans ideology" spearheaded by public enemy number one, the predatory "man in women's clothes/womanface."

In the purest senses of "who has the most kinds of oppression" and "who is targeted the most directly by oppression," transfems are "more oppressed" than transmascs, but just saying that accomplishes nothing and serves little purpose. You can't predict how easy someone's life is because of that. Is it also shit for transmascs dealing with all this? Definitely. And transmascs dealing with transphobia also have to deal with misogyny - this time not as an interplay, but as something that inevitably happens as a second step. When transphobia is aimed at transmascs, a huge part of it leads back to some "you should have been a woman and become an objectified baby oven" horror scenario.

The social pressure to hate transfems is stronger, there is a special social construct/social dynamic that materialised specifically out of trying to destroy transfems, but that's like comparing losing two fingers to losing a hand - we want no one to lose anything, not discourse about which one is worse. Recognising that transmisogyny exists doesn't serve the purpose of being a gotcha to transmascs, it serves the purpose of fighting transmisogyny. Fighting transmisogyny doesn't happen without fighting all transphobia. (It is possible to fight transphobia without going the "extra mile" to fight transmisogyny, which kinda leaves transfems behind to deal with their issues, but for all the internet discourse I've seen I've literally never met someone who did that. I've heard of bad people doing that because they don't care, but I haven't even heard of them on my continent).

Plus, everyone's situation is different. You can lose two fingers and die to gangrene, you can lose the entire arm and heal well. I don't see how stats would be able to accurately reflect the diversity of factors. You'd need to check for so many things. Weigh against time. There is no unbiased sample that doesn't figure in the millions at the very least with such a diverse group.

[eleanorfenyxwrites]

FTH 2024

Fandom Trumps Hate bidding is live as of today and this feels like a good time to tell y'all that I'm offering two gift works this year! I had to skip last year as I had just way too much going on, and while I guess technically I'm still just as busy I really missed writing as much last year so I'm prioritizing it now. But anyway - my offerings! Here's the link to my offering page itself if you'd like to look there or think about donating, but for the full breakdown (and a bit of explanation) click the readmore 😌

So as I said I'm offering two works this year, one 5-10k words and the other 10-20k words. The minimum bid for the smaller fic is $5 and for the longer one it's $15. My ships/tags/special interests/etc. are the same for both, and for those of you who are familiar with what I write I'm sure you can guess what they are lol but I'll put it all here anyway!

Ships I will write (and they are listed in order of personal preference for writing): 3zun (or any pairing within it), Wangxian, Chengqing, Xuanli, Junior Quartet

Especially interested in: Fix-its, AU's (specifics can be discussed), Canon Divergence, Slice of Life, Fluff, Angst with Comfort, Smut, Gender Fuckery™, Rule 63/Cisswap

Ships I don't want to write: SongXueXiao or any pairing involving Su She, Wen Chao, Wen Xu, or Jin Guangshan.

Unwilling to address: Angst with No Comfort, Bathroom Kinks, Underage, Rape (I can make exceptions at my discretion depending on context)

Other notes: I can be fairly flexible! I've worked before with a bidder who wanted an extra written for one of their own stories, I can write requested extras or missing scenes for any of my existing stories/universes, or we can come up with something completely new. I prefer specific prompts, but please allow me some wiggle-room for my own interpretations, we're working on this as a team!

Special interests: F/F ships, Poly ships, Genderswap/genderbending, Canonically trans or nonbinary characters, Trans or nonbinary interpretations of canon characters

This year I've chosen to select specific charities I'd like donations to go towards, and I chose ones that take international donations and that focus their efforts on people of color, children/youths, and LGBTQ+ issues.

Organizations this auction benefits:

In Our Own Voice ["...lifting up the voices of Black women leaders at the national and regional levels in our fight to secure Reproductive Justice for all women, girls, and gender-expansive individuals..."]

Middle East Children's Alliance ["...organization working for the rights and the well-being of children in the Middle East...They are currently responding to the Gaza crisis with medical supplies and emergency assistance for displaced families."]

Never Again Action ["A Jewish-led mobilization against the persecution, detention, and deportation of immigrants in the United States, NAA takes on campaigns against detention centers and ICE training programs, and organizes mutual aid and deportation defense."]

Sherlock's Homes Foundation ["...provides housing, employment opportunities, and a loving support system for homeless LGBTQ+ young adults so that they can live fearlessly as their authentic selves..."]

And that's it really! I'm really excited to be doing FTH again, I loved it the first time and I love feeling like this ridiculous hobby does some material good in the world in a way that's a bit more targeted and magnified than the writing usually does on its own. Financial contributions to good causes isn't something I've been capable of managing in a very long time, but I can spend my time writing a thank you gift for those who can and do ❤

[vtori73]

You know what I find a tad confusing? When groups more oppressed hate another group like... you do realize if they don't like us it's VERY likely they don't like y'all?

This happens kind of often but in this case this is about trans people who are biphobic and honestly it makes NO sense. Like are y'all really THAT desperate to be like and assimilate with the LG✂️BT groups/individuals that y'all will stoop to hating other queer people for no real reason (yes, bigoted reasons aren't real reasons). Sort of similar to when poc are bigoted towards LGBT people, like do you think this will make white Christians/bigots like you? More often than not these people are racist, and the extreme kind and will hate you no matter what.

Also, I'm going to say it despite it probably being controversial but biphobia is NOT just some minor issue, it should be treated on the same level as homophobia and lesbophobia (but as it's OWN thing). Anyone who says otherwise is just ignorant on what our actual issues are and are just full on biphobes. No one wants to admit it though because then they have to reckon with how entrenched LGBT communities are in perpetuating and encouraging biphobia and they don't want that they need easy targets they can punch at to relieve their anger at the allocishetero patriarchy and its MUCH easier to do that at an oppressed group then at the dominate ones actually in power.

"Well bi people ARE privileged," no, they aren't only straight people get privilege for their sexuality and no, passing privilege isn't a real or valid concept and only is used to excuse people's bigoted treatment of an oppressed group. Sure white bi people hold privilege but that's because of their RACE which means none of you other white LGBTQIA+ people are exempt. If you are white you have more privilege than most, but considering these online spaces are mostly made of white people they will always try to divert attention away from that fact and instead find ways to talk about privilege in ANY other capacity to the point of applying in ways that don't make sense at all (basically almost to the point of appropriating the term like they do often with other terms/word like medical ones or aave) and because they REALLY want to believe (or want YOU to believe) they cant oppress others.

Passing privilege, even if a valid concept, would only really benefit white people (or benefit them the most). Same thing for when (usually) white people try to apply it to trans people the only ones who can obtain that privilege are middle class or up white people because gender affects poc much more differently because the standards our society seems out and upholds on us are influenced by whiteness. Like when white trans people & allies gang up on trans poc by calling them transphobic or something they accuse the POC of even though all they did was call out their racism and how much what they said/do is influenced by whiteness.

It is interesting to note also how most of this "privilege" talk only ever is selectively wielded at one specific group even though it doesn't make any sense to do so. Bi women are ALWAYS brought up as being henchmen to the patriarchy even though more often than not white cishet women the ones who are actually the lackies to the patriarchy but also literally everyone has the capacity to be, yes, even Lesbians because doing so isn't dependent on what type of sexual/romantic relationships you are in (shocker I know)!

Also the fact that bi men are never considered in these conversations, by that I mean why is it no one ever stops to think the man in the relationship is the queer one and not the woman or is also queer? It's always "bi woman and their het boyfriends," never the other way around or both and its because this response isnt just based on biphobia but misogynistic biphobia. The boyfriend due to biphobia is assumed straight for being in a relationship with a woman (or maybe more precisely his possible queerness is erased because people assume bi men are just gay & so when a man is with a woman they aren't willing to believe he could possibly be queer). Bi women though deal with that and misogyny on top and because of that are targeted more because yes misogyny adds on to the bigotry we face.

"But bi women are only targeted because het men are dangerous," I won't argue that a lot of cishet men are dangerous but a LOT of these conversations always hinge on assumptions made on people's LOOKS which is bad, you can't assume someone isn't queer based on looks and doing so only feeds into binary thinking on presentation of gender and sexuality. How exactly do you know for sure the man in question is a cishet man and not a closed trans woman, or bi man, or nonbinary person or trans masc/ man or combo of these identities? Or the woman, how do you exactly know she is a cis bi woman?

And also, not going to lie but this really just seems like nothing more than the continued rhetoric that came from political lesbianism. Also ALSO, not to mention if these cishet men are dangerous their first victim isn't going to be a stranger they don't know, that type of thing is in general a pretty rare occurrence, because even if they are homophobic statically speaking their victim is going to be people closest to the cishet man aka THE BI WOMAN, the PARTNER! If he is homophobic there is no way in hell he isn't biphobic, and it makes sense considering how high our rates of abuse are, straight women don't even have as high of levels which just helps prove we face this amount of abuse BECAUSE of biphobia + misogyny & not just because of our "proximity" towards men.

Which moves me to my last point in which this supposed panic and concern for others in the LGBT community over these hypothetical cishet boyfriends let in by bi woman seems nothing more than a lie to openly attack bi woman for what on the surface seems like a reasonable concern and at best performative because if there REALLY was a concern the person you should all be most concerned for is the bi woman but instead they get ridiculed, attacked, and accused of being enablers of homophobic predators.

And again, this all just comes down to ideas and beliefs that came from political lesbianism but let's also take a moment to realize just how eerily similar this is to the trans panic rhetoric of evil men (the cishets boyfriend) pretending to be woman (bi woman pretending to be queer while in a "straight passing" relationship) to get into safe but public spaces designed for cis women (queer public spaces like pride). Both the conservatives and queer people even shift the blame onto the marginalized person instead of the actual person at fault (cishetero predators)!

It honestly goes to show just how much our society will whether intentionally or not protect predators first and foremost over anything else and would rather shit on marginalized people who are often more times than not victims themselves. But it makes sense because our society REALLY hates victims.

[bi-lesbian]

Not trying to be rude, I’m genuinely curious, but what would you call a non men who’s only attracted to non men then, doesn’t that kind of erase our identity? And there’s nothing wrong with liking men but a big part of the reason why people hate lesbians or at least from what I’ve gotten is for not being attracted to men, so although similar, we don’t face the same type of oppression.

yalld just be using lesbian- something being an umbrella term doesnt erase anybodys identity. gay being an umbrella label for the entire community doesnt erase gay men. if you really want to be sure and specific about it you can use modifiers like mono lesbian or the like (mono lesbian probably wouldnt be good for including enbies though), or perhaps even coin a new term, bc lesbian has historical significance to bi people as well and is often still used by many of them, and ppl taking it just bc they want a term for themselves doesnt sit well with me- especially when its usually put alongside biphobic rhetoric (claiming theyre untrustworthy, theyre the reason men prey on lesbians, theyre aiding in their own oppression by associating with men, etc), and the exclusionism of bi people from the lesbian label was mostly started by radfems around the 70s.

bi women using lesbian isnt the reason why predatory men prey on queer women. its bc men are often taught theyre entitled to womens bodies, and changing the defintion of lesbian (which isnt universally agreed upon, mind you) to exclude men isnt really doing anything to tell predatory men to stop preying on mono lesbians, because they dont. Care. and it usually just ends up pointing fingers at bi people instead bc theyre an easier target, in an aggressive "relating to yall is putting us in danger, youre the enemy" way, its clear how thats biphobic, yes? bi women have always used lesbian since it existed, but then radfems deem them the enemy, blame them for predatory men who often also prey on bi women as well, and try to take the label and thus also bi womens own history away from them, its why im not okay with whatever reasoning people use to try to keep that mindset in place.

and oppression is a messy thing, its not neat and strict across labels. talking about oppression that are typically identity-specific is fine, but people need to realize that queerphobes dont really care about peoples specific identities, if they perceive them as a thing then theyll treat them as such, so saying its expressly different oppression for different labels just doesnt really hold up. straight trans ppl can be treated like gays or lesbians, a gnc person can be treated like theyre trans, a bi woman with her feminine enby partner can be treated as two mono lesbian women, and various other things. and people refering to it as "misdirected" i think is frankly kinda gross.. its not misdirected, our oppression is intrinsically linked, and thus will overlap and mix- bc its all about how society views us. and someone not experiencing the """right""" oppression doesnt mean theyre not still suffering from it.

and remember, not all bi lesbians like men either, bc many use bi to mean liking 2 or more genders, which doesnt necessarily include men. this is another reason why a lot of people see overlap in lesbian and bi, even aside from using lesbian as an umbrella label.

[raayllum]

no actually please explain how not supporting pedophilla and incest ships is the same as american conservative christianity

not wasting my breath but i will provide links if you're willing to prove you can read

the article tdp's head writer retweeted with the connection in bold

Beyond betraying simple art illiteracy, though, these intensely personal, emotional complaints and appeals to public safety have a clear antecedent: religious and conservative opposition to “obscenity.” The centering of individual values and pain, the assumption that a universal moral standard exists which should guide all public or quasi-public art and behavior, and the belief that art can do material harm to both people and culture as a whole unite the two at first apparently disparate groups of angry indie gamers and religious fundamentalists.

The deployment of victimhood as an unimpeachable defense is an old tactic frequently used by hate groups like One Million Moms and its parent organization, the American Family Association, whose rallying cry “think of the children” now echoes through everything from intra-community Gay Pride discourse to the drearily predictable “there’s too much sex on TV” tweets that seem to sweep across the platform on a weekly basis.

consumption / creation of media not being a short cut to morality (the same way that proving you go to church is not lmao)

history, literature, and the impact of morality on media in north america / the united states (probably too long for u so again, here's a snippet)

Examples of this are the panic over comic books in the 50s (an emblematic case, the book Seduction Of The Innocent, arguing that comic books were a direct cause of juvenile delinquency), the satanic panic of the 80s, the panic over violent video games in the 90s, the panic over the “trans agenda” of the past few years, together with “punching-up” conspiracies like Pizzagate and QAnon. They are all deeply concerned for the youth and the vulnerable, all have a very specific target supposedly responsible for the child abuse they are perceiving, and all are characterized by an impressive amount of disinterest toward more empirically accurate assessments of types of child abuse and how to prevent them.

The level of disinterest and plain detachment from the work that should be put in to actually make a change even suggests that the child victim is really just a symbol in a social phenomenon that, at closer inspection, is not about them. It’s not about the child. It’s about the idea of the perfect childhood 

and my own words just last month when another teen tried to pull this shit on me. newsflash, i've held the exact same opinion on this when i was a teen in fandom (both a decade ago, and just three years ago!! i was a teenager just three years ago)

Another thing grammarians and writers have been concerned with since before is what is Okay to be portrayed in art. Plato’s The Republic thinks that art is immoral because it may give people unrealistic or unsafe ideas because people are 'unable’ to distinguish fiction from reality. He later retracted this, although Aristotle’s Poetics was a text where Aristotle disagreed with Plato’s prior established opinion.

Fandom is entrenched in cultural Christianity and the conservative mindsets that come with it. Aphobia in fandom was rampant from 2014-2017; truscum and tucute discourse as well; how prevalent TERF rhetoric can be (women are inherently good, attraction to men is shameful, etc). I’ve seen all of these things in fandom. All hinge an idea on being able to decode a person’s intent (somehow), the rising attachment of morality to genres of entertainment (antis), and how many antis I’ve seen that are TERFs or Aphobes or guzzling down that rhetoric without even realizing.

Terfs and the Conservative far-right have a long history of working together. Both frame concerns of gay people as pedophiles, being anti sex work (because sex is nasty and a sin), that we must Protect the Children who cannot monitor or make any decisions for themselves at any age. The anti vs pro ship dynamic online is a microism of larger public discussions regarding purity culture - and that includes how queerness is overly sexualized, how queer sex is seen as especially dirty, the “should kink be at pride?” discourse, and issues with respectability politics.

Antis who say we have to harass people to control what exists in fandom to “protect minors” on a moral basis are ideologically adjacent to parents who decry earlier Sex Education for children

hate to break it to you bub but if you've ever consumed anything based off greek myth (hades/persephone, percy jackson, lore olympus, hadestown, etc.) you've consumed things that have incest in 'em. hades and persphone are niece and uncle on both sides, because her parents are also siblings to hades, and his parents / her grandparents were also siblings. just the way the myth works.

something being ideologically similar, adjacent, or parallel is also not the same as supporting - but clearly you believe in orwellian thought crime, too, don't you? you know, the idea that your just your thoughts can be Morally Wrong and Impure and any expression of them (like fic) can get you in trouble if you don't repress every urge that goes against the societal grain, even in a fictional / fantasy space, and-

like, tell me u can hear this

[roboticutie]

Literally nothing that kaeyacvnts added actually contradicted what OP was saying or talking about at all. The only thing that actually clashed here was when they put words into trans men's mouths. NO WHERE did gay-otic insinuate letalone actually claim "transmisogyny doesn't exist in our communities or accounts for anything".

Having different relationships and experiences to varying expressions and actions of hatred towards us is just. True. And in no way contradicts the fact that systemic transphobia, including its specific facets of transmisogyny and transmisandry, hurts every trans person even if in different ways. That doesn't negate the fact that All trans people are at risk of being attacked in bathrooms, pushed out of public spaces, and threatened over simply existing.

Wringing your hands and making it out to be Ultimate Victimhood Battle Royale doesn't actually add anything new to the conversation, it only makes you look like an asshole for using people's actual experiences, lived traumas, and loved one's deaths as points to use against other people that have gone through those exact things to say they didn't or it doesn't hurt the same or as bad just because they're going through a different transition. The fact that trans women are often on the minds of those hurting all trans people regardless of actual gender is something to take up with the hateful people, not to be used to shame trans folks that have been victims of violence for talking about their experiences. Especially when they're even acknowledging the role transmisogyny played in their injuries. You're not "correcting" anything here you're just being cruel. You're not even a trans woman. Why the fuck do you think this is appropriate behavior?

This anon came into a trans person's ask box, used trans women's trauma against this trans person to claim he didn't actually have it as bad as they do, and then anon was corrected in the false idea that trans men are not specifically targeted as well (NOT INSTEAD OF); and another person jumps to try to argue with facts that there are transphobic people who are aware trans men exist and hate them, too, not for being trans women but for being trans men. And then you didn't even manage to do that, you just restated the facts that trans men ARE hurt but tried to downplay it and frame this person as being transphobic with absolutely no reason to here.

This post is a shitshow and you both (kaeyacvnts and anon) suck. Examine your cruelty and learn how to do better. Stop using transmisogyny as a pawn to Own The Men, stop reducing real life transphobia down to worse-than-better-than pissing contest without actually doing anything to help or further the conversations we have with each other, and start taking your brothers, sisters, AND siblings seriously. This shit isn't cute and I'm tired of it. People who keep doing this are freelance Fed Ops sowing dissident and until they change and actually take other members of community seriously without using people's trauma against each other, beating the words we have to help understand where hate is coming from into the ground, you won't change my mind. You're not even getting paid for this shit.

Oh also, there are self-ID'd trans women (or "dysphoric men") TERFs. Don't imply trans men are the only ones who are vulnerable enough to get pressured and sucked into that Hell. "You are not immune to propaganda" and all that, neither trans women nor trans men are inherently better or more immune to internalized transphobia and the insinuation through omission otherwise is a crock of shit, too. Experiences with it ARE different, but don't think no one noticed you only tacking on the transmasc victims to TERF indoctrination among your general rude tone here. That was fucking dirty.

the people harmed by the 'save the poor confused daughters' rhetoric are trans WOMEN who are seen as the predators. if you are TME maybe shut the fuck about oppression you benefit from? 'oh no i am seen as the people who need to be protected from the evil bad transfems :(' you are the villain here

While trans women are seen as predators and the "save the poor daughters" rhetoric affects them in things like sports and bathroom bills, this ideology is specifically wielded against trans men & mascs. Because- and this may come as a shock to you- transphobes hate all of us and we are all harmed by their bigotry.

Specifically, in the post you're likely referencing, I was referring to the way TERFs are upset about people who were assigned female at birth, discovered they were attracted to women and identified as lesbians, and then transitioned into straight trans men. This isn't a made up thing. This is actually very common rhetoric.

They see trans men & mascs as lost butches. They see transmasculinity as the lesbian holocaust (which, in addition to being transandrophobic, is antisemetic as FUCK. but i won't get into that)

And this rhetoric is seen in trying to "protect" all afab children, not just lesbians. Conservatives have recently become outraged that an American Girls book marketed towards young girls, or young children perceived as girls, explained gender identity and advised readers to talk to a trusted adult if they were experiencing gender dysphoria, because a doctor could help them be more comfortable in their bodies (namely puberty blockers.)

Here are screenshots. This shit is real.

I am not seen as someone who needs to be protected from the "evil bad transfems." I am seen as a traitor to womanhood, a violent misogynist, a nazi in the so-called lesbian holocaust, a stupid girl who wants to mutilate her body and trick other girls into mutilating their bodies too.

And even if I was seen as a victim, if I was seen as a little girl who needed to be saved- that would be misgendering me. I'm not a fucking girl. It's not a privilege to be misgendered, and quite honestly it's transphobic to claim I should feel grateful that I'm getting misgendered.

Also, that's bullshit to say that I'm TME and I benefit from transmisogyny. I am not transmisogyny exempt. I have been harassed for going into a women's bathroom because I looked too masculine and the women in there thought I was an evil bad predator. So yeah, not sure how I benefited from that, considering it left me with nowhere safe to use the fucking bathroom.

You have no right to tell me I'm not harmed by transphobia. Go fuck yourself.

[alleycat4eva]

I figured I would chime in with my two cents. TERF (Trans Exclusive Radical Feminist) is kind of a branch of radfem ideology. Radical Feminism is also fairly trans-unfriendly, but is broadly less targeted at trans people specifically. Radical feminism is generally anchored that the belief that misogyny is the ultimate, central oppression, and as such all men are oppressors, and are actors of such in all situations, even when a man might genuinely be a feminist or faces other oppressions like racism, queerphobia, ableism, or classism.

As such you can see this is the start of a big radfem -> terf pipeline (also radfem -> white supremacy pipeline, but thats a bit off topic), where transphobia becomes a central motivator and trans women are specifically targeted as predatory men seeking to enter women-only spaces (hence the Bathroom Panic). Trans men only factor into this as innocent "women" and "wayward daughters" tricked into thinking that thousands in medical bills and hormone therapies and the immense social stigma are easier then just not associating with men to escape misogyny. Tracing back to radfem this is really just a natural conclusion of the ideology as its so rooted in assigning morality to gender, thus already establishing the bioessentialist groundwork that is also so prevalent in transphobia.

Specifically regarding the reproductive and medical rights aspect, that is still be misogyny but kind of... redirected to affect trans people by virtue of the degree to which they choose to medically transition. Also transphobia in that our society largely just... doesn't consider transgender people outside of transition treatments. For example a trans man who chose to and already had his tubes tied could be argued to have no stake in the current reproductive rights either. Infertile cisgender women, or intersex women as well. As the cisgender white man is historically- and thus generally today as well- medical default this does ultimately leave blind spots in the lack of information of those outside that demographic- so vaginal health and wellness is understudied. That could affect a cisgender woman yes, but just as much if not more than a transgender woman who had a vaginoplasty and suffers from lack of diverse study of the vagina. If needed you can specify "oh those affected by cervical cancer" or "those with their reproductive rights at stake". Really when discussing an issue its best to specify what the issue is rather that who you first think is affected.

I hope this cleared somethings up for you, and that i managed to be as factual and unbiased as possible. As another long-time follower, I would hate to see you choose that path. This might sound sheltered but OTRAS was actually an eyeopener for me regarding the existence of the trans community, as theres a one-off line about Haku being DFAB and I wasn't familiar with the acronym. I think you're asking these questions in good faith but tagging "trans" "radfem" "terf" all together comes off as aggression on your part considering the vitriol trans people usually get from radfems and terfs, and radfems definitely want to flock to assure someone they think they can sway. Terms like "gender critical" "sex-based oppression" sound like neat and tidy clinical terms but they are ultimately considered transphobic dogwhistles, as they were created specifically to the exclusion of genderqueer perspectives.

It does clear some of the thing up for sure. And I appreciate you taking the time to talk about these things.

I can also see that trans issues and trans people aren't addressed outside of medical transition. But, and by God I do not mean this in offense even though I realize it might be improper to say, I see a lot of GNC activities shuffled into trans issues when it's like. Just a nontraditional activity or role.

I do see these opinions on transgender men in radfem posts, which seems somewhat infatilizing, but moreso? I... don't see transmen addressed in media and most all the posts. A lot of what I have seen is focused on transwomen? Like I just don't see many transmen in media at all. Which, when I looked into the assault numbers, it seemed like transmen were the majority in cases. And maybe that's because I don't have a huge window or wide enough lense or else it is literally observer effect. I very well could be wrong. (I also feel weird about self reporting in studies but I honestly see that that is a separate issue and am admittedly understudied in that area.)

As for the medical field, yes. I thing reproductive and sex specific issues are understudied in a specific sex. And so are symptoms as they pertain to that sex. And I see how that could pertain to people with vaginoplasty and effect them, but I am unsure if moreso. And then on that side, the failure to recognize that there are inherent (imo base) secondary sex characteristics that occur and give advantageous aspects in many areas is just. Like. Consistently unacknowledged or outright rejected, then laid at the feet of a certain group as not trying hard enough.

I also can see the need for more specific language in places but I also think that at times, instead of adding to the conversation, it detracts from it? Like, people with uteruses, yes, which are widely recognized as a certain word, but even those who identify as male and have a uterus should also check for or be aware of x, like . Almost creates a divide that is unessiscary in the contexts. Like I believe there is uniquely sex based oppression that has to be acknowledged and addressed, and those people empowered to be able to escape it, but it isn't because they are gnc and it would not be applicable to q trans in the same situation?

Like. Let say the church as an example (because I live life in areas where Baptist and evangelical churches reign). Now the church isn't jiving with almost all queers. But even if you were a transgirl growing up with church parents it would be a different discrimination than a girl growing up under heavily religious parents? Like, as a uterus owner a lot of the values and traits that made women less were sex linked. Not gender based.

And I had no idea the tags would be taken that way. I was trying to include tags that would be blocked so those that would be adversely affected by the issues of GC and terf stuff wouldn't have to see it. Is there a tag that I could add in there that would be better suited?

[drs3x]

have we really discoursed so hard that weve circled back around to "hating men is BAD..." do u realllllly not see how saying that hating Men is Transmisogynistic is.... VERY.. QUESTIONABLE..???

no i get that its questionable which is why. Again. if id known the post was going to be seen by as many people as it was, i wouldve anticipated that some ppl wouldnt be able to follow my exact line of thinking and maybe explained a bit further

hating men for simply being men and telling yourself and others that they are inherently bad because they are men, while maybe soothing in the moment (because i understand Personally that lots of men, esp white cishet ones, are shitty and oftentimes its a result of the power imbalance in a patriarchal society), is an unhelpful line of thinking bc if you really, truly believe that men are the way they are due to their gender, you remove the motivation to hold them to higher standards, and accept that they will just be Awful Forever Due To Some Inherent Flaw In Manhood. and you’re buying into gender essentialism, which is something terfs and radfems buy into as well (as much as they Will Not Admit It). its a dogmatic and black and white way of thinking, and radfems and terfs will see you (maybe not you specifically as i dont know if You the anon are tma) doing this and youll become a target for their sympathy and eventual indoctrination, which ultimately harms trans women and transfemmes more than anyone

and gender essentialism and bioessentialism (which is DEFINITELY a core tenet of radfem ideology, i promise you) are both Essentialism, are both beliefs that there are personality traits and behaviors inherent to entire groups of people because of something arbitrary like one’s gender or the kind of body they have or once had. theyre the belief that, no matter what happens to some people, they will simply never change or break out of the expectations you have for them -- which is anti-queer because our community is Built on not meeting cisheteronormative expectations, and transphobic because Trans People Literally Change Their Genders All The Time. and if you believe that someone born one way is going to be that way forever, terfs, radfems, and other transphobes would love to agree with you. so you have to understand that if a trans or detrans person can change their gender (often multiple times in their lifetime),  their gender literally offers nothing in the way of explaining their behaviors or personality traits

i Do see how easy itd be to twist my words into “op thinks that trans women arent women” but terfs and radfems really do look for and stick around people who totally and unequivocally hate all men on the basis that they are men, and the current trend in Queer Humor(tm) ive been seeing where people drag on men for the simple fact that they Are Men is. worrisome. it worries me. i get that theyre jokes but i cant find them funny because ik some people are internalizing that shit without thinking critically abt it first, about who could be telling these jokes or who could be listening for whoever laughs the loudest at them

[system-of-a-feather]

Have you considered that the whole Super straight/bi/lesbian/gay thing came about specifically because y'all are so quick to call people transphobic? I don't understand why supporters of trans rights are so interested in whether or not people are willing to date trans people.

Like, if that's your biggest problem, you're doing well. Genuinely, what is this oppression trans ppl face if the biggest concern is getting a date? And if someone doesn't want to date a trans person, why, WHY would y'all wanna pressure them into it? What does that do for you? Isn't it dangerous for the trans person to pursue the issue once they've been turned down? Why are you encouraging them to be in a place of danger? Who cares if some people don't want to date trans people? If they're as oppressed as y'all say, that is literally the least of their concern.

I absolutely fully agree with that. It absolutely isn’t an okay thing to do and people aren’t transphobic for not wanting to date or be with a trans person. I have absolutely nothing against that.

What *does* bother me is how people go about using the “trans people are mad that we won’t date them” to straw man that most people that say that follow it up with saying “trans men aren’t real men” or combine it with “I only want to date real and natural men” which is inherently transphobic.

I fully support anyone who is just not interested in dating trans people. That’s fine, and I really don’t care. We are a blog of people who have been traumatized, abused, and sexually abused and forced upon. We would never put that upon anyone else. Our blog is first and foremost about trauma and consent and harassments is absolute big “N-O”s for us

If the majority of the people who said they didn’t want to date trans people didn’t start using “real” women and men lines, then I would have no issue with being “super straight” or “super lesbian”.

Similarly to you assuming everyone who is against it cares about if you can get a date or not and is upset about it, we are forced to assume everyone who thinks it is about that is going to use and talk like a transphobe / TERF and de-legitimize their gender identity. Most of the shit talking and memes in the Super Straight tags are dissing “new” gender labels like nonbinary or whatever and trans identities and all that, so don’t act as if this is all about predatory trans behavior and not about people being disgustingly transphobic.

If your tag and movement was solely about addressing toxic behavior in the trans community that is predatory, I would be standing with you and in support, but instead a large majority of the people in your “movement” take it as an opportunity to diss, disrespect, and let blatant transphobic / TERF rhetoric spew disgustingly on your floor and I just can’t stand for that.

As for the Trans community, our largest issue **isnt** getting a fucking date. It has never fucking been getting a date and if you really think that is the largest issue, god are you blind and deaf. 

I think the largest issue would be the overall stigma hatred and disgust many people in society hold towards people who are trans. There are also all the people who regularly threaten violence and state that they would kick the head in of anyone who they saw if they were trans or saw “a man in a dress.” There are people thinking people who are trans are secretly just pedophiles that want to fondle children. There are people who murder people for being trans. There are people who just regularly bully and make fun of people or completely cut ties with people because they are trans. There are people assaulting - physically and sexually - people who are trans just for being trans.

“In 2009, 17 percent of all reported violent hate crimes against LGBTQ people were directed against those who identified themselves as transgender, with most (11 percent of all hate crimes) identifying as transgender women.8 The remainder identified as transgender men, genderqueer, gender questioning, or intersex.” - x

“People may assume that being visibly transgender or having a transgender history is a direct cause of sexual assault. There is some truth to this: A number of murders of transgender people (particularly transgender women of color) have taken place when new sexual partners "discover" their sexual partners were assigned male at birth and/or have a penis. “ - x

I promise you, almost any of the bigotry and exclusion that people who are lesbian, bi, and/or gay experience, people who are trans also experience, but they also get it from people who are lesbian, bi, and gay.

If you want to have a discussion about the predatory nature of some people who use being trans as a means to attack and pressure people into sex or a relationship, we would be more than glad to sit down and talk about that. It is a huge problem and a disgusting one. 

If you are trans and you get rejected and then use your trans identity to try to pity and victim cry yourself a date or sex, then you are scum and worse than any transphobe out there. You don’t deserve to look at this blog or group yourself with us. Don’t be a fucking predator.

If you are one of those people, lick my boot and cry because fuck you. 

I’m not against “supers” because I think they have a right to your body. I’m against “supers” because they parade behind “I don’t like the predatory behavior!!” to be transphobic.

I understand that if some of your have been pressured into shit like this, it might be a trauma response and I understand that. I’m not actually mad at you for that because I very much understand how that works. We have been there before and have generalized horribly, but please do know a large majority of the community is not just about sexuality and who they will date. We aren’t predators. We are just people and most of us just will handle rejection like a normal god damn person. Please don’t generalize us with abusers because of a negative experience you or someone you know might have experienced.

A lot of people who are trans are far more busy and concerned with how having to choose between who they actually are and living in a constant lie to themselves and others, and being their true self and risking to upturn their entire life, loose many acquaintances, and naturally have a target on your back if you aren’t living in an area that is considerably tolerant and even then its still a risk. I don’t know where you got that getting a date is the largest issue about being trans because it never was and never is.

Please, take some time to really try to listen to us and our experiences and please don’t immediately group all trans people in with abusive people. A lot of us really don’t care about getting in people’s pants and most of it is really just about trying to live and be ourselves.

I understand the experiences are horrible and anyone who puts that pressure is horrible, but don’t let that be an excuse to spread rhetoric and hate on a group that already has an insanely high suicide rate. 

People aren’t killing themselves because they aren’t getting dates. They are killing themselves because being trans is hard and insanely difficult. Dating someone is a speck of sand in a desert.

Please don’t use that straw man on us and please don’t use it to paint all trans people as bad and worthy of hate.

Thank you.

-Ray (Gatekeeper)

[piracytheorist]

So I went down some t*rf tags the other day to find which blogs I should block, as you do, and of course in order to avoid accidentally blocking people who were mocking the ideology or sarcastically agreeing with it, I actually read the posts there and scrolled down some of the blogs.

And with some of the things I saw... it made me understand how they reel people in. In some of the stuff they said, I understood them. I understood their struggle, and their anger, and I got how their feelings could make them burst out the way they do in their blogs. Also the fact that many of the blogs I scrolled down and blocked were by women between the ages of 15 and 19 didn’t help. That’s the exact age where you do the most reckless, the most emotional, and the least experienced thinking. It’s when you think of something and immediately think you’re right, because you’re not developed enough, neither mentally, nor emotionally, nor from the aspect of life experiences, to know better and reflect on how well developed your thoughts are.

And to see them act the same way older t**fs do, like in the ages of 26+... it’s fucking scary. It genuinely feels like a cult, where teen women, frustrated with the misogyny they experience, come to a website to vent out their feelings about that and find passionate adult women agreeing with and supporting them and saying that they’re in the right to hate men and trans women... it solidifies their at then immature thoughts.

Like, give me one (1) cis woman who during her mid- or late teens didn’t hate men, even for just a few months, in reaction to being treated as lesser just for having a female body. Just one. I specifically did. I was, for a couple of years actually, believing the bullshit going around that “Girls are more mature than boys”, that “Girls love truly, boys only want sex”, that “Women are statistically smarter than men” etc etc. But then you grow up, you reflect on those thoughts and you go like “Damn older people are right when they say that teenagers do stupid stuff sometimes”.

And that’s the thing with being a teenager; it’s the time to do mistakes, it’s the time to screw up, to vent out your frustrations, and when you grow older and have more life experience, look back at how you used to think and say “Wow, cringe. Good thing I grew out of that.” Absolutely not saying that everything teenagers do is stupid, if anything, most people start discovering themselves at that age. But that’s it; it’s a start. And on that road you’ll make mistakes, you’ll reflect, you’ll change your mind, you’ll learn, you’ll grow. The things that you start connecting with as a teenager which you keep on in your adult life also change, in the way that you look at them deeper, you understand them differently... it’s like with favourite films. Any movie you love as a teenager and as an adult, you’ll have a different mindset on the two occasions. Even if it brings you back to those times, you still have developed and you see it in a different way. Both ways may be positive, or fundamentally similar, but they’re still different, maybe one is the evolution of the first; it’s still not 100% the same. Because you grew up. It’s kinda sad, in a way.

So the issue I have with indoctrinating young women into the t**f ideology from so early on, is that it’s an ideology based on hate. By saying that women are only those who experience misogyny, you’re basically normalizing misogyny and abuse, and averting the blame. You’re saying that it’s expected from men to be misogynistic, and that women should band together against the oppression... instead of looking into why men are misogynistic and looking how you can inspire change in that. It’s victim blaming, basically.

By saying that “trans women are not women because they don’t grow up experiencing the effects of misogyny and patriarchy on themselves” (in a way that’s bullshit but as a cis woman I can’t expand on that, read trans women’s stories instead), you’re putting the responsibility of erasing misogyny on trans women. And again, you’re normalizing the abuse, and you’re defining your gender by the abuse you went through.

Like, fuck no. I was bullied for more than half my school life. It has impacted me greatly, many of the emotional scars I carry them still, my character has been affected by the abuse I went through, but by fuck no does it define me. I choose to try to be kinder. I choose to see abuse as wrong. I choose to be an educator so that I can help bullying stop being a thing in the schools I’ll be teaching. And not because I feel ashamed, or that I pity children who are being bullied, but because I want to make this world a better place, because I believe in teaching the younger generation into not perpetuating any kind of hateful ideology.

That’s not what t**fs do. They just say they hate men and perpetuate the idea of female supremacy... as if women, even women who are privileged in every way other than having a female body, can never do wrong.

Like on one hand, they deify JKR who said that “I am not a victim, I do not pity myself and I’m growing out of my trauma strong” in a very, very victim-shaming way, and on the other hand they define their femininity on the fact that they’re victimized by the patriarchy. Make it make sense.

And in general, it is still an ideology based on hate. When you take a group of people that are struggling both on the inside (either through gender dysphoria or through the pressure of not feeling free to express themselves) and on the outside (either because they’re bullied if they act “out of the gender norm” or because of transphobia if they come out), and you hate on them, when you put the entire responsibility of erasing unrealistic expectations on beauty and appearance for women on that specific small group that’s in a fundamentally disadvantageous position... bro I don’t know what you call it, I call it targeting. You have your frustrations with the patriarchy and sexist men, and because those people won’t listen to you - mostly because they’re privileged and assisted in that by the system they create - and you take it out on a group of people that’s just trying to live their lives in a way that doesn’t hurt anyone.

Like, I saw someone being upset by people comparing t**fs to nazis because she’s Jewish and I’m like... how the heck can you not see the similarities? How can you grow up Jewish and not see that it’s wrong to target an entire group of people, massively hate on them, say that they “have an agenda” just because they want to be themselves and aren’t hurting anyone? How can you not see that cherry-picking the unkind or misled ones and defining the entire group by those few people is wrong?

In fact, how can you not see that “trans women are perpetuating Hollywood’s beauty standards for women” has the exact same basis as “immigrants of colour are stealing white people’s jobs”?

And you may say, “Lillpon, you’re doing the same with t**fs right now. You’re going out there and blocking them after having said you hate blocking people” and I’ll say, I am not hating on them. As I said, I’m scared by seeing how many of them are teenagers, but at the same time, it’s telling. It’s a cult-like mentality, it finds people who are frustrated with how they are treated, who feel wronged, who feel they’re in an unjust world, and it takes those feelings and targets it to one specific group or characteristic. For t**rfs, that’s the XY chromosome set. For neo-nazis, that’s non-Caucasian races. The whole “finding young people who are alone, who see that the world is unjust, who feel no-one listening to them and indoctrinating them to an ideology of hate” is point-blank exactly how neo-nazi groups work. Here is a very interesting TED talk on the matter by a former neo-nazi, if you’re interested.

Also, I never said I hate blocking people, or that I think it’s wrong. I just don’t think it’s something to be proud of, and in fact I’m not proud for blocking those people, I even feel a little guilty as I understand how many of them are just victims of indoctrination.

You’ll say, “But Lillpon, a lot of neo-nazis are spoiled, privileged white men! How can you know how privileged t**fs are??” And to that, I’ll turn communist and whisper in your ear, “The privileged are few. They’re the minority. And they depend on the lower classes fighting against each other so that people forget that it’s the privileged who make all the laws and standards that hurt all the lower classes.” To that extent, you can never, never know who truly hides behind the blogs and twitter accounts with “r*dfem lesbian” on their bio. There are many occasions, especially on twitter, where accounts that claimed to be queer poc were found out to be run by straight white men.

... So, who can guarantee that everyone running a blog with “r*dfem lesbian” on their bio is actually a cis, lesbian woman? And again, on its basis, it’s the same.

Neo-nazism is putting the blame on people of colour; that not only causes a rift between neo-nazis and poc, but also between neo-nazis and white people who oppose them. It’s in fact a pawn so that the white people in power - the people who are responsible for the problems poc and lower class white people face - can avoid having everyone against them. They give poc and less-racist lower class white people a scapegoat.

T**f ideology is putting the blame on people born in male bodies - absolutely no matter what their character is. Again, that causes rifts between t**fs and cis men, t**fs and trans people, and t**fs and cis women who support trans rights. Instead of focusing on seeing how we can stop cis men from being sexist - which of course will inconvenience the men in power who rose so high because misogyny is holding women back - we’re fighting against each other. It’s again, a pawn, a scapegoat, to distract us from blaming the one who’s truly to blame.

If anything, if you’re a t**f, the fact that what you do is helping the white men in power - because absolutely nothing you or your friends can do can affect them in a negative way - should be a reason by itself to not be a t**f. But what do I know.

[garetthawke]

like. i know my voice is not as important to be raised as trans women's. PLEASE listen to them.

but i say this to all the people out there who, for some godforsaken reason, might listen to me while they ignore trans women: TERFs want you to make a taboo of the word "queer."

i say this as someone who was preyed on by TERFs extremely young. i came from a restrictive, anti feminist, homophobic home. i looked for anyone who could teach me better. i didn't know there horrid people like TERFs to even look out for, and they took advantage of that.

they TAUGHT me to vilify the word "queer." i was taught BY TERFS that it made people too comfortable in the community when they "didn't belong there," and they HATE that queer doesn't leave people's identities on display for them to judge and exclude. if you just say "queer," they can't try to kick you out specifically for "not belonging."

they ALWAYS went about it so as to not be identified, too. they didn't say "queer won't let me identify you as trans!!!1!" they said "queer is a slur and you should be more considerate of other people :(("

and this whole fucking insane site fell for it!!! everyone went off their rockers reblogging from crypto TERFs and transmeds (who equally disliked queer for its ability to hide nonbinary people,) agreeing and out right fucking persecuting anyone who used this term that's been a casual part of our language for decades!

and it all was wrapped up in the social media culture of oppression olympics - you HAD to list every single oppression and minority identity and privilege you had in your bio or else you couldn't be part of any community or have valid input on discussions.

just like how you had to list every mental illness you had to be allowed input on discussions on mental health, "queer" just didn't cut it to be involved in the lgbt. you have to break down and label every piece of yourself in a way they understood and accepted; and if not....well, you're worth less than shit, because self identifying as queer is literally the same as "forcing a slur on poor, unconsenting people" now isn't it?

this was by DESIGN. TERFs fucking revelled in this bullshit because it made people (trans women specifically) easy to pick apart and target and abuse, and they didn't even have to do the fucking work. all they had to do was make a call out post blaming some poor trans woman of using "a slur" and all you self proclaimed allies of trans women came running to their inboxes to do the dirty work of TERFs.

TERFs mask what they mean. they hide their intent behind truths and use those truths to steer people how they want. "men shouldn't invade women's spaces" is a truth, but it's one they've mangled because what they mean by "men" is actually "trans women."

TERFs don't give a shit about the feelings of other people towards "queer." they aren't being conscientious about slurs. they are being clever, banking on the fact that you'll see the objective truth of "you shouldn't force slurs on people" and overlook what they actually fucking mean behind it.

STOP DOING THEIR GODDAMN DIRTY WORK BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO PUT HALF A BRAIN CELL TOWARDS CRITIQUING THE MEANING BEHIND WHAT YOU SAY AND REBLOG!!!!

"queer is a slur you shouldn't use it" literally fucking means "you have to identify yourself to me, trans women have to be forcibly vulnerable to me" to TERFs.

i am not saying this from some random POV of a person on the internet just trying to fight a side in some discourse.

i am saying this as someone who was groomed young by TERFs, someone who saw and was taught first fucking hand how they think and work and what they want. use your fucking brains. every combat of "but queer IS a slur and people can be triggered by it tho" is not smart, you sound likethe same dumbasses who say "but men SHOULDN'T be in women's spaces!" in defense of radfems.

you aren't making a point, you're being willfully obtuse of the point. and it's getting trans women hurt.

[a-method-in-it]

Trans(masculine) former Potterhead here! I still own the books, were a gift, a hardcover set from my mom from years ago. I even made a parody of Im a Lumberjack and I'm OK from Monty Python as I'm a Hufflepuff and I'm OK and helped found a Dumbledore's Army club at my High School I loved HP so much, I was obsessed, but now I have so many mixed emotions about the franchise I don't really know what to do.

I cannot speak for trans women, but as a queer trans person, if I see someone reading the books or watching the movies or wearing merch its like. Ok. I know I might get along with this person, they like the same stuff I (used to) like....BUT do they know how the werewolf thing is about AIDS, implying gay people are out of control monsters, and how the only villain with werewolfism specifically targets minors, implying pedophilia is a trait inherent in gay people? Do they know that when a trans woman reads the books they worry they wont be "woman enough" to keep the stairs in the girls dorm from turning into a slide, because they know that the author specifically thinks they don't deserve to sleep in the girl's dorm because of their gentials? Do they understand that JK Rowling's opinions are there, insidiously rooting into young minds? Are they reading this critically? Or do they support what JK is saying? Do they know all of these things and not care about it, dismiss it out of hand?

Does this person want me dead?

It boils down to a Feeling of Unease. Is this person safe for me to be around? There is a Very Real Danger that the person in the Ravenclaw Shirt and Golden Snitch Earrings is going to call the police on a trans woman going to the bathroom, or beat her, or even kill her, because the author of their favorite series has convinced them trans women are men in dresses and that men in women's bathrooms are dangerous. That person could also be a nice genuine nerd, queer themselves, even potentially a friend, but now I am Suspicious of that person. I am suspicious of anyone who openly enjoys it (unless they are children, kids don't know better, or if they have a tattoo, idk how old that tat is). They want to read it at home and want a discussion on new themes and how to make it better/less gross? Fine by me.

But if someone is publicaly supportting her, staying extremely active in the fandom defending the books or movies or JK herself, having and wearing merch which could direct new people (probably kids! Who will get Obsessed! And don't know better!) into buying things from her and giving her money? After all that she's done? After she literally helped create legislation against being trans?? Not cool.

The series is just simply tainted for a lot of trans folk like me. I still hold it dear foe what it did for me as a child, and I know if I read the series again I would still love it, but I would also HATE myself for enjoying it, knowing that the person who wrote this, the bit of her soul which she has given me, wants me dead. Wants my friends dead.

So I'm not really saying if you support HP publicaly people will see you as a TERF but I am also absolutely saying that people will see you as a TERF if you publicaly support the HP franchise. Death of the author is well and good when the author is dead and/or their estate doesn't get any money for new books or merch purchased, but she is alive and actively trying to kill trans folks, so literally anything that could be seen as support of her, or get others to support her even accidentally, can make trans folk uncomfortable and feel unsafe.

Hope this helped? I know I'm not the original asker, this is just my two cents.

Hi there! Thank you for posting this lengthy and very thoughtful response (and I hope you don’t mind my answering publicly -- if so, let me know and I’ll delete). There is one (admittedly very long) thing I’d like to say in response, but if you’re not looking for that, just know that I really value hearing your perspective and you can feel free to skip all of this and carry on your way. 

---

You say that you would probably enjoy the books if you reread them, but would hate yourself for doing so -- and I just want to say that what you like does not make you a bad person or act as any valid basis for deserving hate, from yourself or anyone else. 

Like, for instance, I’m a person who cannot stand horror movies and I am genuinely confused that anyone would enjoy watching terrible things happen to people for 90+ minutes. But I would never say that people who like horror movies are bad people just because they do enjoy that. The same goes for violent video games -- I don’t like them, but I don’t think the people who do are bad.

Because what media you personally enjoy has really no bearing on whether you are a good person. Being a good person is about how you treat others, whether you are kind, whether you are patient, whether you are understanding, whether you help people when you can and show up for the people in your life when they need you. It has nothing to do with whether you like a particular book or movie or videogame. 

So if you do want to reread those books because you think they would bring you joy, I hope that you do. 

Long before she became a TERF -- (and for the record, I don’t think that she was actively and consciously transphobic at the time when she was writing the books, for the simple reason that most of the people who are TERFs today weren’t at that point) -- I had already gotten used to tuning out Rowling and her fondness for Word of God pronouncements. 

Like, Dumbledore being gay actually fit into the canon very well, but others? They just felt tired and not thought-out and her whole short history of American magic was incredibly lazy. The werewolfism=AIDS thing was offensive in very real ways--and also it should be noted just does not make sense as a metaphor. Not just because AIDS will kill you and being a werewolf will not and there’s no way to bridge that fundamental disconnect -- but also because the way people talk about being a werewolf in the damn books doesn’t resemble at all the way people talk about AIDS patients in real life. Which makes me think she didn’t actually mean for it to be a metaphor when she wrote it and then years later threw it out there because it sounded good to her in the moment because she hadn’t thought it through.

By the time we got to wizards shitting on the floor because she very clearly forgot that she had already had chamber pots referenced in the text, I was long-since tapped out. 

Which is all just to say that it is beyond fair for you to use being a fan of Harry Potter as a data point in gauging your safety as a trans person -- but if we’re talking just about you enjoying the books?

Well, in that case, fuck Rowling and her weird post-canon comments that half the time don’t even make sense. If she wanted trans girls to not be allowed up the stairs to the girls’ dormitory, she should have put it in the damn text. As far as I’m concerned, trans girls and trans boys are allowed up whichever staircase matches their sense of themselves (and, I like to think, nonbinary kids get the run of the whole tower). 

In fact, as far as I’m concerned, she lost the right to have me care what she says about the Harry Potter universe when all of her comments started being unbearably lazy, asinine, and/or nonsensical. If she’d been half this uninspired and careless when writing the actual books, I would have stopped reading them. 

This has been a very long reply on that single point, but I want to end by saying that the point is, even if I accepted the premise that liking the Harry Potter books is in and of itself wrong -- and I hope I’ve made something of a case that it’s not -- it still shouldn’t be something you hate yourself over. Short of actually murdering people, I’m not sure there’s anything that’s grounds to outright hate yourself, honestly, but liking a book is definitely not on the list. 

Either way, you seem like a lovely person, one who is very thoughtful and has been very patient and generous with your time in writing all of that out. I hope that you find ways to also be a little more patient and generous with yourself -- about Harry Potter or any other topic -- because you deserve that and you do not deserve to be hated by anyone, least of all yourself. And I also hope you have a good rest of your night.