#vaemond

[bbygirl-aemond]

How would Ned Stark react to Rhaenyra's bastards?

The difference in fandom treatment of Ned stark vs Vaemond Velaryon is so interesting to me. Like Vaemond was definitely out of line in calling Rhaenyra a whore and Ned would never, but... both of them saw bastards, so they said bastards. And both of them were killed for it. Yet one of them is beloved, and one of them is detested.

I know that Ned's situation is a bit different because Robert didn't know his kids were bastards, while Laenor did and was fine with it. However, you gotta remember that the characters aren't privy to the full picture-- only we as viewers are. Vaemond doesn't know that Laenor agreed to the whole situation. And honestly, Ned is so focused on honor and tradition that he would 100% still object on principle.

TLDR if Ned Stark was in HotD he would have absolutely been against Rhaenyra's bastard situation. Not because it was unfair to Laenor, but because it violated customs, laws, and truthfulness, which he feels very strongly about. He would have probably done something similar to in GoT and come to Rhaenyra privately, but threatened to go public if she didn't address it. And Rhaenyra would have had him killed, exiled, or blackmailed for it. Or maybe she would've tortured him like she wanted to torture Aemond after he lost his eye.

And given fan's reaction to Vaemond, instead of venerating him for it, they would have hated him. Which is just interesting to me. It really speaks to how much fan's personal like of characters (Cersei vs. Rhaenyra) biases their reactions to near-identical events.

[chidoknowshit]

HotD confession time.

My stupid ass forgot that Vaemond was corlys' fuck around and found out brother's name and spent several days convinced that the fandom had decided to refer to Aemond like that.

Did wonder for a while what that V standed for and what meme i had missed

[urdeftonesgrrrl]

"vhagar and aemond are such cowards! they can only win by sneak attacking!"

literally daemon:

[sunfyrisms]

literally why is it that every single velaryon seems to exist to boost up rhaenyra.

laena isn’t loved by daemon because he misses the niece he groomed, her “i want to die a dragonrider’s death” will surely be made to make rhaenyra’s demise a badass moment (it will never be anything of the sort. it is empty and tragic). in fact, rhaenyra fucks laena’s husband the very night of her funeral and marries him the day after or so!

corlys literally cannot grieve the loss of his wife without being given her station and made out as the bad guy because he’s angry at rhaenyra (he already made her bastard son his heir, though we can all acknowledge it was more out of benefit to his house, and his house has worked tirelessly to supply her ships).

literally 99% of the scarce screen-time baela receives is propping rhaenyra.

rhaena is ordered to be a glorified babysitter to rhaenyra sons (who are, uniquely, her half-brothers but you couldn’t tell with the lack of warmth between rhaena and her step-mother).

it’s interesting that the only velaryon who doesn’t fall into this category, vaemond, is literally brutally murdered for calling out rhaenyra and the fact she wants house velaryon to be ruled by a bastard who has no legitimate direct tie to his house, and literally knows nothing about their ways. in fact, he has to call her a whore to distract the audience from the fact he’s speaking the literal truth and everyone is too busy purposefully ignoring it to acknowledge he’s right.

it’s a bit odd that they were all intentionally made black when literally all they do is prop her up, and the man who doesn’t kiss her ass is executed, that’s all!

[watcherintheweyr]

'Rhaenyra is a bad mom bc she knowingly gave birth to bastards and she knew how much danger they'd be in!!!!'

1. She had no way of knowing those babies wouldn't pop out looking exactly like her, beforehand. And unfortunately she couldn't stop at Jace. The throne needed an heir. Driftmark needed an heir. And a spare was needed as well, given the sheer rate of Targaryen children dying untimely deaths.

2. She had to provide heirs to the throne, and to Driftmark. If she hadn't, society wouldn't have blamed Laenor, they would have blamed her- which makes her position even more unstable, bc then she 'can't fulfill a woman's duty' so why would men think her 'able' to fill a 'man's role' by ruling the kingdom? And she and Laenor tried. He was either unable (meaning infertile or impotent, or unable to get it up), or unwilling. (And they did try. We dont know what they tried but Rhaenyra is shown to be clever in the show so honestly i have no doubt she attempted what Margaery suggested with Renly.) Laenor was in on the entire thing. He was aware of every part of this. He wasn't duped, he wasn't cuckholded- it was a plan greenlit by him, bc this way he and Rhaenyra would both have their heirs and a family. This cannot in any way shape or form be compared to Cersei cuckholding Robert (fuck Robert Baratheon tho), seeing as Robert was **not** at all aware that his children weren't his, and wouldn't have been OK with that.

Either way- she chose not to maritally r*pe her husband and put him through more trauma after it was clear their attempts weren't working. Yall are always so upset for Alicent (rightfully so, bc show!alicent was maritally raped, even if it wasn't considered as such in that time), but you... WANT Rhaenyra to do that to Laenor? Hello???

[And no. Rhaenyra did NOT rape or coerce Criston Cole. The actors, writers, and directors have all stated their sex was consensual and 'an act of love.' It was Rhaenyra going to someone she felt close to and trusted after feeling abandoned and unwanted and betrayed. In that scene you literally watch, as after Cole tells Rhaenyra to stop undressing herself, she moves aside so she isn't blocking his way to the door. The director states that the moment they show Cole folding and setting down his cloak was him choosing his desire over his oaths. And Criston Cole has known Rhaenyra since she was 14. He knew damn well the sort of person she was- and she was not the person who would have harmed him for saying no. She was an intoxicated and emotionally vulnerable 19 year old- Criston was in his late 20s to early 30s. And it's explicitly stated in ep.9 that the ONLY person a Kingsguard cannot refuse is the king. In ep.7 Criston disobeys a direct order from Alicent when she wants him to mutilate Lucerys. Criston Cole was not assaulted. Stop trying to assign Aegon's sins to Rhaenyra so that you can feel better for supporting him.]

3. In the books, the rumors of their bastardry at large halted when all of Rhaenyra's boys' cradle eggs hatched. The ONLY people who continued to try and raise issue were the core green faction. But the realm at large *did not give a fuck* why? Because every actually relevant party claimed those boys. Repeatedly and without flinching. Laenor claimed and loved those boys even face to face with Alicent's bullshit. Corlys claimed and love those boys- he was proud of them, and it's been stated by the actor in the show that Luke was his favorite- that given the... events of ep.10, Corlys will be out for blood. And Viserys repeatedly insisted upon their legitimacy- because Laenor and Corlys claimed them, because he knew that by forcing Rhaenyra to marry Laenor in order to repair the damage his insults caused House Velaryon, that he had backed her into a corner.

Rhaenyras boys are remembered to history as Velaryon. Even **Green supporters** noted that they were good, capable, intelligent, and **worthy** princes. That their deaths were unfortunate *for the realm.*

Legally, those boys are legitimate. They cannot be proven illegitimate without Laenor renouncing them, and he never did. Furthermore, trying to declare children illegitimate due to their appearance is a stupid, dangerous precedent. The fact that it's people who have no ties to House Velaryon pushing these rumors and pushing for disinheritance makes it even worse, because they're meddling in the succession of a House that *is not theirs.* if that became a standard, imagine the feuds and conflicts that would erupt- lords pushing for the children of rivals to be declared illegitimate all for the sake of trying to grasp and steal land, power, and influence as a norm? The realm would tear itself apart. Not to mention the sheer danger that would place women in, in Westeros.

Furthermore, even whilst usurping her, even while calling her children bastards, the Greens also imply Laenor's homosexuality was inherited by the Velaryon princes- that they would use Rhaenyra's 'promiscuity' and Laenor's 'predilections' to turn the Red Keep into a brothel- ironic, considering that's more what Aegon would've done. So even while claiming that Rhaenyras children are bastards that shouldn't inherit, they try to state that what the boys inherit or learn from Laenor makes them unfit for the throne. They can't keep their own damn story straight- because their usurpation was never about what is moral, what is right, or the greater good. It was about greed. Power. Sexism.

It doesn't matter what those boys looked like, especially seeing as Rhaenys had dark hair in the books. What matters is that Corlys and Laenor and Viserys claimed them and declared them legitimate, and that they **never** deviated from that.

As for Vaemond, he was a second son. And he waited until Corlys and Viserys were dying and too ill to stop him to make a grasp for power. Youre not supposed to look at that and feel hes in the right. Youre supposed to look at that and see a man consumed by greed, and literally trying to bury Corlys' will and intentions before the man is even in a grave. He was NEVER Corlys' heir- he just wanted power. It wasn't about his House, or their legacy, it was about him.

(And before yall start shit about Rhaenyras boys stealing Laena's girls' inheritance... Rhaena and Baela are *TARGARYEN*. Not Velaryon. Their claim was to the throne or to any holdings in Daemon's name. NOT to Driftmark.)

Rhaenyras boys being betrothed to Rhaena and Baela tied up any issue of 'Velaryon blood.' Baela would have been queen consort of the seven kingdoms at Jace's side, and they very clearly adored one another in book and show. Rhaena would have been Lady of the Tides- which she never would have had a chance for, without Rhaenyra (and Laena) making those betrothals. She and Luke were also canonically very close- and in show she's very encouraging of him whenever he looks nervous or uncertain. They had a bond.

Rhaenyra stole nothing. She gave those girls more. And she loved them- they were the only daughters she got to have, seeing as the Greens treachery caused the early death of baby Visenya. If she hadn't loved them, she wouldn't have trusted Rhaena to look after Joffrey or give her Morning's egg from Syrax. She wouldn't have immediately invited both girls to the table when she was queen, which is something her father did not do for her until much, much later. He allowed Rhaenyra's voice to be silenced too often when she was first made heir. Rhaenyra did not repeat that hurt to her girls or her boys.

Anyways, moving on.

You lot do also remember that Rhaenyra herself has Velaryon blood, right? Jaehaerys I's mother was Alyssa Velaryon. Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya the Conquerors' mother was Valaena Velaryon. It's not immediate, but there *is* Velaryon blood through *all* of Rhaenyras boys.

Ultimately, Rhaenyras boys were only in danger because of the core Green faction usurping the throne. If they hadnt- no succession crisis or rebellion could have truly threatened Rhaenyras boys- because none of them would have had dragons. All of Rhaenyras children loved one another- her sons by Daemon would not have turned on her sons with Laenor (and Harwin). They were a true, loving family- possibly one of the healthiest and most close knit one House Targaryen ever boasted.

And another thing... 'her having babies with Harwin was stupid, she should have picked someone Valyrian!'

Here's the thing. Rhaenyra had to be careful as hell choosing who would father her and Laenor's heirs. She had to choose someone who was physically close, and who could be trusted. Someone who wouldn't try to publicly claim those boys in boast or jealousy. Someone who would keep their mouth shut and had no ambition of their own in regards to the throne. Do you really think Vaemond Velaryon (as I see him suggested a lot) would've kept his mouth shut? That he wouldn't have tried to use this to blackmail Rhaenyra and Laenor for more power and status? Do you think Rhaenys would have ever fought for or supported Rhaenyra if Rhaenyra had tried to have Corlys sire her children? And flying to see Daemon in Pentos and having a purely Valyrian child 9 months later would have made things look even more suspect.

Furthermore... she chose someone who cared for her deeply. Who clearly had a positive relationship with Laenor. She chose someone so she wouldn't have to traumatize herself- she took power over her body in a way almost no Westerosi woman has ever been able to. They were a family unit- Rhaenyra, Laenor, and Harwin. Those children were loved and cherished by two fathers and their mother. They were raised never doubting their mothers love, nor their father's- either father. They were raised and educated to be true, good princes of the realm.

Rhaenyra fought like hell for her children. She was an incredible mother. Yall just believe everything the Green faction says without looking at it critically, and that's unfortunate as hell.

[danyyytarggg]

one of my gripes about house of the dragon is the lack of a true royal court. in game of thrones, we were shown a red keep bustling with people, both servants and nobility alike. we were shown ladies-in-waiting and noble men and women at court attempting to seek favor from the royal family like cersei, margaery, etc. there were always people around and spectators to be careful of when conducting your business in the castle. we really are not gifted this in house of the dragon. sure, we’ve seen some small glimpses of the royal court and castle life but nothing significant enough to even be close to comparable to that of game of thrones, which is such a shame because it adds so much to the idea of nobility/royal life. in a way, it makes hotd sort of dull, lifeless, and empty in the red keep, dragonstone, driftmark, etc. as well as making the world small and sort of isolating around the targaryens/velaryons/royalty/small council, and not even in an “untouchable” sort of way, just sort of in a “there’s just nobody around” way. not to mention, depicting the royal court/nobility more would be significant in a show centered around a power struggle for the throne. and seeing team green and team black truly navigate court prior to viserys’ death as well as during this war would have added so much more to the story such as depth, significance, etc. even in appearance, the red keep seems dull whereas in game of thrones, the castle was vibrant, decorated, bustling.

this also plays a role in that i’m personally not a fan of how the show depicts royalty/nobility. from the lack of extravagant clothing (though i feel like the show has done just a tad bit better this season), lack of court/castle life, to the way people tend to blatantly disrespect the royal family without punishment (with the exception of vaemond), even the way they sometimes speak, the show lacks in giving me the sense of “THESE are the TARGARYENS. THIS is how ROYALTY are like. THIS is how the HIGHEST NOBILITY live.”

personally, the show just isn’t depicting royalty/royal court/castle life/nobility to the extent it should and can even come across as sloppy at some points.

[drakaripykiros130ac]

People are so insensitive when it comes to Rhaenyra’s situation. I have never seen so much cruelty directed towards a girl who was put between a rock and a hard place.

You all are acting as though Rhaenyra’s goal in life was to cheat on Laenor and undermine the Velaryons, her allies and her kin. She didn’t sleep around with the purpose of getting back at her husband and having children with other men out of spite (she’s not Cersei).

Rhaenyra was forced into marriage with a gay man and expected to produce heirs not only for the Iron Throne but also for Driftmark. So, an heir and a spare for House Targaryen. Another heir and another spare for House Velaryon. Four children (preferably sons) were expected from her womb. Good luck with that.

Let’s suppose that the rumors are true and Jacaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey are not Laenor’s. Rhaenyra’s decision to have children with another man should be less criticized, and regarded with more sympathy. She couldn’t spend her entire marriage life to Laenor without having children. Her “suitable” options were these:

1. Remain childless and let herself, the Princess of Dragonstone and Heir to the Throne, be called barren.

2. Demand an annulment by exposing Laenor’s nature (confirming the rumors), and not only humiliating House Velaryon (her allies) but also putting the succession of Driftmark into question (since Laenor was Corlys’ only son and his chosen heir).

At a time when a faction of snakes was constantly nipping at her heels, either one of these options would have left Rhaenyra vulnerable at Court.

She took matters into her own hands and had children with another man. And not just another man. This was a man she could trust, her sworn shield, a man who cared for her and who would never betray her (it’s hard to find someone like that).

To claim that she should have chosen a Valyrian (as though the options are unlimited) is extremely superficial. For this to work, she needed someone trustworthy, someone who would not attempt to claim the children later on. We all know that Daemon would have been the best option for her. She loved him, he was Valyrian and her ally. But alas, with his own marriage and life away from Court, it wasn’t really possible. And I am not really sure if Daemon would have been okay with another man laying claim to his children (that is up for debate).

Rhaenyra preferred a man who was trustworthy over a man with the “correct” features. The chances were 50/50 that the children would look like her, and unfortunately, they didn’t. That’s that.

Laenor and Corlys accepted the situation, because they understood what it would cost them all if they didn’t. This whole thing was on their heads. They provided the heir to the throne with a husband incapable of reproducing. It was not Rhaenyra’s fault.

As such, the children were recognized as Velaryons by the father (Laenor), the Lord of Driftmark (Corlys) and the King (Viserys). And these are the only opinions which matter. No one can prove that the boys didn’t inherit Baratheon and/or Arryn genes. Legally, Jacaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey are the sons of Rhaenyra and Laenor.

When it comes to the Iron Throne, it doesn’t matter who fathered Rhaenyra’s children, as long as they are hers. She is the ruling Queen. And we have no way of knowing how things would have gone down after Rhaenyra became Queen. Daemon had two sons of his own. He could have managed to convince Rhaenyra to acknowledge Jacaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey as bastards and then legitimize them, since she has the power to do so. If the boys wouldn’t have been accepted by the Realm (unlikely), there is also the possibility that Rhaenyra could have decided to pass the succession to her and Daemon’s children. Rhaenyra had legitimate heirs who could have taken the throne after her death.

As for Driftmark, despite greedy Vaemond’s ramblings, the succession was just fine. The Velaryon line would have continued through the marriage between Lucerys and Rhaena.

Lucerys had the Velaryon name and Rhaena had the Velaryon blood. Their children would have had the Velaryon name and blood. Problem solved.

People need to stop acting as through Vaemond was some sort of crusader, demanding “justice” for his House. He was just as much of an upstart as the Hightowers and he wanted to take Corlys’ power for himself, and so he took advantage of some rumors to discredit Rhaenyra’s children and advance himself.

Things are not black and white, and given Rhaenyra’s nearly impossible situation, exceptions can be made. And these exceptions wouldn’t have affected neither the succession of Driftmark nor that of the Seven Kingdoms.

[wolf-saint]

Three experiences in Westeros:

Horrors of being a woman

Second son unhinged behaviour

firstborn trauma

[notalicent]

HOUSE OF THE DRAGON + back to the camera shot (8/∞)

This type of shot creates a sense of mystery or tension leaving the viewer to interpret what the character is feeling or thinking.

[thevelaryons]

HotD racebent the Velaryons and their sole purpose on the show (so far) is to be subservient to Rhaenyra. Am I reading too much into it if I say this is incredibly racist?

There’s definitely racism in the writing. No doubt about it.

A lot of Corlys’ most intelligent political moments are actions taken against Rhaenyra. So HOTD dumbed him down and even centered Rhaenyra in parts of the story where Corlys held authority in the book. Corlys is mostly relegated to the position of being Rhaenyra’s yes man and anytime he speaks against her, the characters around him shame him into silence in the same breath as exalting Rhaenyra. Laena’s relationship with Daemon is completely screwed over to prop up Rhaenyra and even Laena’s death was changed to foreshadow Rhaenyra’s death by dragon fire as something glorious & empowering. HOTD invented Laenor having internalized homophobia so that Rhaenyra could be positioned as the one who saves him from himself. Addam is immediately subservient and obedient to Rhaenyra as soon as he meets her without being given the same honors for his loyalty that his book counterpart got. Vaemond is randomly villainized as a raging bigot instead of a typical ambitious nobleman so that his death can be justified and brushed under the rug, to absolve Rhaenyra. The Silent Five are erased to avoid showing the accountability for the characters’ actions and that scene in HOTD is instead depicted as a touching father/daughter moment between Viserys and Rhaenyra. And there’s a bunch of other stuff too.

If HOTD writers think they’re doing Rhaenyra any favours by making these changes to the characterization, well they aren’t. It’s her character that ultimately looks worse and will continue to do so in the long run.

[spacerockfloater]

If I had a nickel for every time a black silver haired noble man, that has power over a region related to the sea, rightfully called out the white female main character for stealing from him while the narrative tried to convince us that he does this due to misogyny and he deserves to be punished for his insolence, I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it happened both in ACOTAR and HOTD.

High Lord Tarquin and Lord Vaemond Velaryon you will always be famous.

[kass-of-the-midlands]

Prayer circle that Viserys actually fucking rots in hell for eternity. ​I don’t know who’s plan it was for the Velaryons to be Black but the writers backed themselves into a corner right at the beginning of HOTD.

[dailyhotdgifs]

Our blood runs thick. Ours runs true. THE HOUSE OF THE DRAGON — 1x07: Driftmark (2022)

[sunfyrisms]

what’s upsetting to me about making house velaryon black is that the writers seem to go out of their way to bend all these characters to rhaenyra.

laena’s entire character exists to show us that daemon is not happy if he is not with rhaenyra. “we were happy enough” in response to being asked if he loved laena. even laena’s death. it’s tragic, it’s horrifying, and based on the direction the show is going, it will likely be used to uplift rhaenyra. “i want to die a dragonrider’s death” like hello? and even her funeral is used for rhaenyra to have sex with daemon.

vaemond, the only velaryon who does not try to empower rhaenyra, was horrifically decapitated by daemon (cowardly i may add, given how he struck this man from behind) for speaking the truth. the writers really had him call rhaenyra a whore to distract us from the fact he is literally right. her sons have no direct connection to house velaryon.

baela is used to prop rhaenyra up at every possible chance. she is blood and fire, but she was raised at high tide for years. nearly every scene she has, she is doing whatever rhaenyra wants, or speaking highly of her to another character (usually jace).

rhaena is forced to become a glorified babysitter to rhaenyra’s kids. that scene was odd because of the complete lack of warmth and affection that rhaenyra supposedly has for her step-daughters.

like why? what was the point? these actresses and actors are amazing and their characters do not get the justice they deserve. they deserve better than being used to prop up the feminist white savior who comes from a long line of people who genuinely believe they are truly above everyone else because of their heritage.

[mejcinta]

Wouldn't be surprised if Sunfyre will be the first dragon to eat someone on screen. Syrax should've been the first when Rhaenyra fed Vaemond's corpse to her in the book, but in order to prepare the audience for Sunfyre's future savage slay, on top of making Aegon look war crazed... Sunfyre could be the one to eat someone first lmao.

[drakaripykiros130ac]

The “sympathy” given to Vaemond Velaryon is ridiculous (we all know that it is really about digging way too hard for a motive to portray Rhaenyra as “evil”). Comparing his death to that of Lyman Beesbury is reaching.

Lyman Beesbury was an honorable old man who had the courage to speak up during a treasonous and secretive Council meeting whose purpose was to usurp the rightful heir to the throne. He had no personal motivation and was of pure heart when he accused the Greens of high treason. And those vipers killed him for it.

Vaemond Velaryon was a snake in the grass, just like Larys Strong and Otto Hightower.

He was nephew to Corlys Velaryon, a coward, an opportunist and an upstart himself, who sought to use malicious rumors and the misfortune of a woman brought down on her by the members of his own House (they all knew about Laenor’s true nature) to not only take Driftmark away from Lord Corlys’ chosen heir, Lucerys, but also from Baela and Rhaena.

Vaemond deserved what he got.