#ultimate rose lalonde

[girlbowser]

part 3 was that rose was obama.

and that she created davebot as some kind of... (???) against ultdirk. i never was able to figure out exactly what davebot was meant to accomplish. but in the process of doing this, she killed candy!dave.

a semi-recent update basically confirmed this for me tbh.

you know. be more niceys to candy rose. after all, she RECENTLY TRAGICALLY LOST HER SIBLING TO MuRDER.

adfjhgsfkg.

there's more to this, like the obama stuff being an extension of rose being hussie, but that's only believable if you ALREADY believe part 1 of the theory. i do think rose is obama, i do think she had a part in davebot's creation. the davebot scene mirrors a moment in wizardy herbert, where herbert, exploring the moldy, vine-covered ancient remains of the white house, stumbles onto a soulless homunculus/robot of a red-colored figure (reaganbot in WH, davebot in the epilogues). it feels very rose to put an extremely weird and obscure reference to her mom's drunk teen novel (roxy is the canonical author of WH within homestuck's text) as she executes her plan/her brother.

to me, it seems very conspicuous that dave has not a single vision of rose. like, say if you were building a robot to fight an ultimate self, but you were also an ultimate self and didnt want to be conspired against. you wouldn't make this robot be ultimate. you'd *trick it into thinking it was.*

davebot isn't ultimate. aradia repeatedly surprises him, prompts him to explore his ultimate freedom, and expresses that he seems weirdly limited in his so-called perfect powers. and here, davebot witnesses all daves in all timelines -- and not a single one with rose.

if i was building a robot to destroy ultimate selves. i personally would give it Literally No Knowledge of my own ultimate self. i would intentionally leave that out of the data dump. i would make it so that when he is Seeing these streams of Light, he is NOT exposed to anything that could compromise my plans.

and then he dies. he doesn't die heroically or justly -- he dies.

the mechanic here is "ascended essence." it's the concept of dave's godhood itself. it's whatever directs the cosmic spotlight onto "daveness."

that corpse is not a god-tier. he did not die as one.

and that robot is NOT ultimate.

and rose is obama. and that was part 3 and also most of part 4. the rest of part 4 was gonna be going more into the aradia stuff and how she's repeatedly testing him and prodding to see if he is or isn't ultimate, both in the runs of hs2 and hsbc, and even in the 3 sentences they exchange in the epilogues directly. there's some fuckshit going on with these here strilondes and aradia is invested in getting to the bottom of it.

(i wrote an entire fanfic (NSFW) of her trying to investigate candy rose specifically, inspired by all of these theorizings. and then sam gabriel did a STUNNING podfic of it that you should all go listen to. anyway)

yeah.

like all of these theories sprouted in one night after the rosemary update. my friends went insane collectively. and then i said "and of course we KNOW gloves are canon" and they were like "emma what the FUCK are you talking about" and it was all history from there asdfjsgfkgdfg.

anyway yeah

going to go completely bugfuck insane for a little bit here. we need to talk about ultrose

Ultimate Rose, Pt. 1 (establishing facts)

so

ultrose is a fucking bundle of contradictions, huh?

i think its worth immediately establishing postcanon rose as a liar. specifically, there are a few crucial lies -- lies she tells herself as well -- that define the basis of ultrose. (im mostly going to be looking at candy timeline here, because meat ultrose is a whole other tin can of worms.)

the crucial scenes to compare are the last scene where she talks to john at the peak of the war, and the scene where she plays her hand in beyond canon.

i'm going to skip around this scene (candy 33), but stick with me.

this rose.

this rose right here. this rose who is happy. who loves her wife. who has *a* daughter.

this rose, as she herself describes.

is not "true."

rose firmly believes that knowledge means suffering. which, given the state of her body at the start of the prologue, probably feels deeply true! and her ailment disappearing coincides with her sight vanishing, and her knowledge of The Shape Of Postcanon slipping away. (candy 4)

"For some reason" "whatever it was she felt"

i think it's extremely important to establish here that rose wiped her own mind.

or maybe roxy wiped her mind. or the severing of meat/candy wiped her mind, but that last one feels very unlikely to me considering that this mind-wiped-state is at-will.

and we know that, because during the candy timeline, she is two things:

blind to the world

happy

and in beyond canon, this very same rose, days later, is:

too-aware, and in touch with her powers

deeply miserable

she stopped trying the moment the comic came back. she stopped trying because she never started. that was a whole ass different rose. one without the memories or powers.

if you'd allow me to be insane, i think i know which rose.

from ultdirk describing his experiences (with supplementary text from davepeta), we know what being ultimate is like. we understand that he has access to every splinter of himself, some more prominent than others.

so if rose is able to prioritize bringing one iteration of herself to the front of her mind... which rose would be the best?

which rose would be the happiest, the most pleased by living on earth c? the one blissed by love, the one who would be happy with a daughter and a wife.

it's not our main rose. she was not happy during her wedding. she didn't enjoy her life. she didn't think she'd ever be happy until after the meat/candy split happened.

you know who would have loved that?

what

what is this...... very very important thing doing here?

why is she "correcting" herself? why is she making this distinction? we haven't heard a word spoken about complacency of the learned, maybe at all, in the entire epilogues. and we know rose never really finished the story. it was just some amateur wizardfic.

but say there was another rose. a member of the gestalt, who actually DID finish writing complacency. who fought her whole life for the right to have a family, but ultimately failed.

say there was a rose who was an author.

yeah. i think the rose who gets to act out the bulk of the candy timeline (notably NOT yiffy. that was alllllllll ultrose) is alpha rose. roxy's mom. the one who fought the condesce and lost. and i think she's here simply because she's the best choice.

i mean, fuck, in hs2 rose straight up says it.

so . yeah. this is all establishing stuff for my Insane Theory. my real one about why shes doing all this. how shes doing all this. i have been sitting on this theory for months and if you thought "candy rose is alpha earth rose" is unhinged you aint seen nothing yet

gloves are canon

part 2 is here.

[utopianparadoxist]

Roxy Lalonde and the Cat Box- An In-Character Exploration of Schrodingers Gender

Doin something a bit different here. This is an excerpt from a later section of Pumpkin Track I haven't posted yet, but I'm posting it as an analysis/hypothetical meta piece instead of fanfic per se. I'm pretty proud of this little chunk of dialogue and the ideas it explores in relation to Roxy and his/her/their relationship to canon, fanon, and the nature of Paradox Space when it comes to gender, so I thought it might be worth putting up alone. I've always liked the transfem Roxy headcanon but I also really like the epilogues and HSBC's transmasc Meat Roxy and nonbinary Candy Roxy, so I wanted to explore that variety of Roxii in-fiction through imagining and Ultimate Roxy. The version of Roxy speaking in this bit of text is Meat Roxy, who goes by he/him, but...well, I'll let the rest of it speak for itself.

Hope whoever reads this enjoys!

[hal9000fanboy]

i trust you

[rotaryphoam]

Balding Bro: Finale

[gelarshiesprofruitboarder]

sighs

[cringefail-clown]

theyd feed off of each others vibes so much i cant stop thinking about it

[eggwishing]

PAGE VOMIT

[insufferable-homestuck]

so father kill your daughter, mother kill your son. Swallow up the universe till all the killing's done

it happens when you slumber, it happens unaware. Out of every human eye 100 generations stare

[girlbowser]

What exactly does "gloves is canon" mean, if you don't mind me asking?

let's just fucking get right into it.

Ultimate Rose Pt. 2: Gloves Are Canon

if you haven't seen part 1, here it is. the tldr version of it was to estabish candy rose (at the VERY least) as a liar. i also have a headcanon about ultrose putting alpha earth rose into front in candy timeline, but that doesn't really matter too much. its just kinda fun

anyway. heres the theory.

so you guys know A Threat, Sensed, right?

it's one of the hs2 bonus comics. originally patreon exclusive, but was made public for everyone during the hiatus. and i think it contains some deeply revealing information.

you may be wondering... hey, isn't that the comic where ultdirk talks to hussie about yiffy? like, its hussie's one appearance in the comic. kind of weird.

ahaha. yeah. so. about that.

let's rewind a bit. what's the contents of A Threat Sensed?

dirk wakes up after having the shit kicked out of him in pesterquest.

rose is like huh? huh wuh? but dirk gives her a thumbs up. and then he goes to sit on his computer, and type to god.

and then after that delay, he gets a reply.

etc etc etc. they talk. they chat. hussie talks about his beloved daughter yiffy. normal stuff. hey roll that last one back

let's play in this space. lets play in this space. perspective. daughter.

who's daughter is yiffy?

---

let's rewind.

when homestuck act 6 dropped, it released with one very important page.

this page.

this page, where someone with seemingly grey skin is typing on a keyboard. holy fuck, what a reveal. new troll. oh my god. this is the 13th troll

like, they have to be a troll, right? theyve got the time stuff. theyve got a symbol. theyve got shit going on with them

ah.

they were wearing gloves.

this? this is fucking huge.

in homestuck we see that shot a lot. of fingers on a keyboard. but every single time we have seen it, we have also seen at least one shot of the person typing, right?

with two exceptions. one is callie in the act 6 reveal.

and the other is andrew.

er, sorry.

"andrew."

from the patreon post on A Threat Sensed:

those are fake hands. what. what . what. what.

so

if this comic has a history of having a reveal when it comes to characters where Only Their Hands are being shown

and gloves are canon to homestuck, and have been used to precipitate this reveal

then perhaps

gloves are canon here as well.

if you'll allow me to speculate. on the gloves are canon in question.

yeah of fucking course rose is pretending to be hussie because WHO ELSE WOULD IT BE adjKFJGSKDHdskjgjkfskjgdsf

ITS ROSE!!! IT WAS ROSE THE WHOLE TIME

LETS REREAD.

"is that why you were lying on the floor" a question that Rose had because she saw his ass lying on the floor!!!!!!!

MY DAUGHTER

MY DAUGHTER YIFFANY LONGSTOCKING LALONDE HARLEY

hm purple background. anyway im sure thats fine

hm. hm. hm. psychoanalysis. hmmm. hm.

now if i was rose

if i was ultrose. and i wanted an ultimate weapon against dirk.

if i wanted to Make A Weapon Against Dirk.

what would i do.

how would i create it.

who would i hurt in the process.

anyway. this is all leading up to part 3 of this fucking nightmare roller coaster. but uh. basically. i think this one is like all but confirmed????

like...

We’ve had quite a bit of speculation on whether this is “really” Andrew. To that, I think we’d say that it doesn’t “really” matter. If you’re asking are those Andrew’s actual hands, then no, of course not. Because those hands are fake hands that are on the computer screen.

this sounds like it's telling us no, it's not "really" andrew. and to look at the hands. and we KNOW from part 1 of this theory that rose is incredibly deceitful.

the delay in "andrew"'s response could have plausibly been rose slipping away into her little hidey hole, putting on the stupid fucking gloves, and only then typing.

andrew never confirms who he is. and i'll admit, some of the lines don't sound 100% like rose. but others do. others really, really do.

i like this theory because it makes rose and dirk's rivalry on deltrius interesting. it means she has legs up on him. he thinks he's talking to hussie, but he isn't. she has plans within plans. she's got shit she's cooking.

i like it because it contextualizes yiffy, too.

hm wow it sure seems like the candy timeline isnt actually all that sealed! it sure seems like theres something in there that is a corrosive paradox! something that affects both timelines!

something

or someone!!!!!!!!!!!!

anyway. yiffy is an ultdirk icbm created by rose . rose wore gloves. gloves are canon. that's my theory graaaaaaaaaahhh

part 3 coming soon :3

--

EDIT SEVERAL MONTHS LATER: this is what part 3 would have been

[utopianparadoxist]

Pumpkin Track Act 2 - Rise of the Quantum Hyperfurries is now fully public on AO3/Google Docs! Here's a couple drawings of Jake and Dirk from the plot.

==> What is Pumpkin Track?

An alternate continuation to the Homestuck Epilogues centered on Meat Jake English ascending to his Ultimate Self shortly after Dirk leaves Earth C, taking him captive and knocking him out of Post-Canon into a pocket reality on Earth C's moon, orbiting both the Meat and Candy Earths.

==> ACT 2: Rise of the Quantum Hyperfurries - The Star Named Lady English

A mysterious portal leads the Meat crew of Roxy, Calliope, Karkat, Dave, and a furious Jade Harley to Earth C's moon. Detecting the presence of Dirk's ship, they begin to explore its surface only to find an eerie path that seems to have plans for Jade...

It's 3 in the morning forever in this, the twilight witching hour. And as every actor prepares to dance upon the stage, the question of what lies in the w(I)ld heart of Jade Harley's Ultimate Self beckons...

and we wonder--what is there left to hope for in a timeline where every last heart seems broken for good? Roughly 200 pages of color formatted hypertext. Explorations of Classpects, metatext, characters, xenobiology, and the Ultimate Self. No crying until the end.

[girlbowser]

i definitely dont think b2 rose is currently candy rose. she's way too openly su1c1d4l for that to be the case, at least given the current updates.

however i AM extremely convinced that she's obama -- rose being obama was gonna be part 3 of gloves are canon, but i got wildly depressed before i could finish it. To Me, this update revealed that rose killed dave.

basically two main factors -- one is that shes been extremely, wildly dissociated from Being Candy Rose. there is some ultrose shenaniganry afoof and all of her talk about narrative coherence in this update (and the last rosemary one, I knew you would forgive me.) makes me think She is a third, active player in the candy timeline's fate. the second is that there is some calibornisms in her dialogue this update -- THIS IS THE WORST THING THATS EVER HAPPENED TO ME. AND I TRAGICALLY LOST A SISTER TO MURDER / You really are getting it from all ends here, between Jade’s guilt-ridden busybodying and the glint of rage and pain in your wife’s eyes and the sudden, inexplicable tragedy of your brother’s demise.. caliborns love killing siblings and ive thought for a while that rose being obama makes sense -- there was a lot of evidence for it in the way that obama talks to dave in that chapter alone that gave me the vibe that rose was behind it

anyway. everyone in my personal server were shouting about gloves when that update dropped which was very funny

I don't think "B2 Rose is literally walking around in the Candy Rose's body" fully aligns with what I believe the Ultimate Self actually is, but classpectpokerap's "gloves are canon" theory is super compelling to me right now. the allusions to Rose's history as an author are such a great catch...

[hal9000fanboy]

fine ill post on tumblr

[galacticcosmologist]

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 <- links should start working as posts leave the queue

[scrublord27]

This is probably the stupidest thing I’ve ever made

[alfiely-art]

Seeking in you

[snowzire]

rosemary ughhhhhhh otp