#tw religion talk

[namelessbenji]

Been having insane religious/spiritual anxiety for like the past 2 years or so and lately it's gotten worse and I've been panicking thinking it's like a sign from the universe or something only to find out in one of my worse fits of it that it's just a sign that I could be more mentally ill than I thought

[gemsofgreece]

I received these two mails in a suspiciously short time but in any case, look, Anon(s):

This is from the Greek Wikipedia. If you don’t know Greek, it says that Jehovah’s Witnesses are an official Christian denomination and they are fully legally acknowledged and protected in Greece.

In fact, I believe Greece might have more Jehovah’s Witnesses than mainstream Evangelists (from whom they sprang), although I might have this impression because JW are more active missionaries here in Greece. But convertionism is a very common practice worldwide in Evangelism in general, in ways that are typically very alienating to Greeks, who are overwhelmingly culturally and / or religiously Orthodox.

(EDIT: I just checked it out and I was right, there are about 25,000 Jehovah’s Witnesses yet only 6,000 “mainstream” Evangelists in Greece.)

Obviously I would not subscribe to them and I too see sect-like elements in their religion, but given the official status, especially here in Greece, I guess they technically can’t be called a cult or we would have to call cults all other legally protected religions as well, which is valid too in a way I guess, but also kind of��� combative.

[crystalsandbubbletea]

CW: Religion talk

(This is probably the only time I talk about my religion on this blog unless if people have questions-)

Well folks I should probably stop praying to my rain goddess for a while-

I asked for a light rain storm because I believed the grass needed it but instead I got a thunderstorm-

Normally I'm fine with thunderstorms but poor Squeak is terrified of them 😭

[rongrii]

One of us is not going to heaven

[maniacwatchestheworld]

We Need To Talk About Danny's Power Level.

I was hesitant to make this post, but the more I think about it and the more I see... We really HAVE to discuss this. Generally speaking, I really don't want to be seen as someone who is trying to ruin people's fun within this fandom. I want to inform, and while I have issues with some of the very prevalent ideas in this fandom, I don't want to tell people what they should or should not be making! I want people to follow what they find fun to create! But this power level thing...? I think that it has some rather concerning implications to it that need to be examined and discussed! This is an actual, decently serious problem, and after considering it for a time, it occurs to me that I may be one of the few people in this community that recognizes this issue as an actual issue and has the authority to speak on it...

You NEED to stop making Danny so incredibly overpowered in the DPxDC space.

Now please don't misunderstand me. I understand the value of a good fun power fantasy and making Danny more powerful than God can be fun and cathartic if you have a negative history with the Christian faith. But this insistence on the Ghost Zone being The Most Important Thing Ever and Danny being The Most Powerful Entity Within It is actually actively warping how people interpret and think about DC canon as well as certain characters within its canon to the point of unrecognizability as well as robbing characters of what makes them interesting, the point of their stories, and their agency within it. But most importantly of all, all of this is just... Generally, genuinely dismissive and shitty towards most religions, cultures, beliefs, and faiths that people practice, ESPECIALLY the faiths of POC and other minorities. And this is specifically an issue that DC does not have and that people within this space are making an issue by refusing to let the Ghost Zone and Danny have some limitations.

So that you understand where I'm coming from, please understand that I'm a person of color (I'm half Filipino) and that I'm Buddhist (a religion that I decided to convert to and embrace after a lot of thought and soul-searching, even if I'm not very good at practicing it). It also needs to be stated that in the DC universe, all religions and faiths are true and real at the same time, and they all have more or less equal footing as any other faith or religion or mythology explored in this multiverse. Christian heaven and hell are real. Reincarnation is canonical to the DCU. The Greek Pantheon is real and they are just as real and powerful as the Norse Pantheon. (By the by, just to let you know, yes, people in the real life modern day do actually actively worship both of these pantheons today.) Different alien planets have different faiths, and there is precedent for them being real as well. (Hey! Fun fact! Kryptonians are polytheistic!) It does seem that some form of animism is real within the DCU (within concepts of The Red and The Green)! And there is even representation for indigenous African faiths and beliefs within this shared universe! One of the genuinely wonderful things about the DC universe is that all of these faiths are real, they're all valid, and they are all more or less on equal footing to one another! If all the religions and afterlives and gods of each pantheon went to war with one another, it would genuinely be difficult to know who would win, or who would even stand a chance of coming out of this conflict alive!

In fact, a lot of characters and storylines within the DC universe are actually DEPENDENT on all of these faiths existing and being equally valid at the same time. Do you know where Billy Batson gets his powers from? The phrase "SHAZAM," if you didn't know, is actually an acronym for the names of the gods and heroes that he derives his powers from. (Solomon, Heracles, Atlas, Zeus, Achilles, and Mercury.) And it's implied that each person with SHAZAM powers has different heroes and gods that they derive their power from! (Black Adam derives all of his powers from the Egyptian Pantheon. Mary Marvel derives all of her powers from female gods and heroic figures.) Many of Wonder Woman's stories involve her interacting with various different pantheons. Xanthe Zhou gets their powers from traditional Chinese folk ancestor-worshiping practices. Ragman is a Jewish character whose suit is a powerful Jewish artifact- a suit made out of the souls of sinners that was created to protect the Jewish community. Sun Wukong is an actual character in the DCU and he is JUST as overpowered and immortal ×500 as he should be! And there are like... At least 3 entirely different characters that either are iterations of, claim to be, or pull their powers/inspiration from Anansi! DC celebrates a lot of faiths and religions and are bringing in more beliefs and faiths into their universe all the time! TONS of characters derive their powers from their religions, faiths, and beliefs! And DC celebrates them all as being real and valid to all who practice them! ... And you want them all to be forced to be under the same umbrella and less important and powerful as Danny and the Ghost Zone...

Bringing up ideas of ghosts and afterlives are always going to be loaded subjects because they often inherently rub up against actual living people's practiced religions and beliefs. But a belief in ghosts and dimensions better suited for them is also a valid belief that real life people have. And there is precedent for these beliefs also being real within DC canon. But DC only manages to get away with crossing over as many faiths as it does by saying that they are all real, valid, and while you might see less of some pantheons and more of others, they all exist and are doing their own thing just like they do in real life, just off panel... Are you beginning to see what the problem is...?

In the DPxDC fandom's eagerness to incorporate Danny into the DC universe and to make him powerful enough to go toe to toe with the likes of Superman, it seems that most people immediately overcompensated and that no one has really thought to slow down, stop, and actually think about what they are implying. Because the most common headcanons that I have seen regarding the Ghost Zone and other afterlives and religions? It's that they are all parts of the Ghost Zone, but are all ultimately subordinate to it. And since Danny is the Most Powerful and Important Person in the Ghost Zone... This implies that all religions, faiths and beliefs are less important and are indeed subordinate to the Almighty Danny. That all deities and the people following them should just bow down to Danny's might. This is something that DC, in spite of all of its flaws, has managed to avoid. These religions are REAL religions! Actual faiths practiced by actual people! We are NOT talking about dead, irrelevant pantheons that no one alive worship anymore! We are talking about living, active faiths and religions, some of which colonizers have tried to eradicate from the world! Some of these faiths have been suppressed! Some of the people who practice these beliefs have faced genocide for them! And so saying that the Ghost Zone is bigger, better, and that Danny is more important than any single other faith and afterlife...? THAT'S A SHITTY THING TO DO! You are literally doing the shitty Christian missionary thing, but with a fictional afterlife that consists of fictional characters that you know are not actual religious beliefs! You're landing on the sandy polytheistic shores of the DCU and declaring that the Ghost Zone is actually vaster than every faith already in the DCU and that Danny is more powerful and has authority over your gods! That your beliefs and faith and religion should just take a backseat to the Danny power fantasy! That your real, lived religion is not more important nor should it be respected when Danny is in the room! Of course the Buddha should bow down to Danny! Of course the Jewish people should renounce their faith and worship Danny instead because he's better and more powerful than the Jewish God! Why should people pray to their ancestors when Danny ultimately gets to decide what happens to everyone's ancestors!? If they want good things to happen to their ancestors in the afterlife, they should pray to Danny instead! Not like any form of prayer works or matters in this universe anyway because Danny is Almighty! And he doesn't hear the prayers! By making all faiths subordinate to Danny within these stories, you are saying that anyone who practices these beliefs and faiths within these stories are not valid in their beliefs. The only belief that matters and is real in this universe is the Ghost Zone and whatever will appease Danny the most. And while the characters in these stories are not real, the religions, beliefs, and practices they engage in ARE. And so you are implying that real people's faiths and religions don't matter. You are just dismissing real faiths and beliefs as not something worth thinking about or respecting within your works! You are saying that this fictional American white teenage boy and his goopy green land is more important to you than just being respectful of real people's faiths, beliefs, and religions. That your power fantasy is more important than saying that a person is valid for holding on to their beliefs. That when it comes down to it, that you would rather people choose your Danny power fantasy over their religion being portrayed as important and valid. That is honestly insulting. And really alls that you've done is impose monotheism onto the DC universe. You're just enforcing monotheism on people with extra steps. But instead of it being the Christian God, you've put Danny in that position. THIS IS A SHITTY THING TO DO! THIS SHOULD NOT BE THE DEFAULT HEADCANON THAT PEOPLE HAVE IN THIS FANDOM! PLEASE STOP!

Please understand. I know that you didn't do this on purpose or mean to imply this intentionally. I know that you didn't realize that you were insulting and undermining actual faiths and religions by pushing these ideas on the fandom. If one or two people had these thoughts and headcanons and didn't think very much about what they are implying, this would not be a problem. But for this to be the default is VERY disconcerting! As a Buddhist, it does feel genuinely shitty and insulting to imply that Danny has authority over the Buddha and that he outranks and is more powerful than Sun Wukong. It's not fun to think that my beliefs matter to you less than continuing to play with your Danny power fantasy. That you don't think that the pursuit for enlightenment and inner peace is real or worthwhile. That you would find my pursuit of compassion over everything else to be silly, stupid, and laughable when stood next to Danny. I know that you don't mean it. I know that's not what you meant to imply. But it is what you imply by making every faith subordinate to the Ghost Zone. And as someone who has a faith that is so often seen as subordinate to others and just a silly little play fantasy that doesn't matter and isn't real, it's depressing and uncomfortable to see this community as a whole unknowingly echo these sentiments. People in real life don't think that my faith is valid. People don't believe me when I say that I'm Buddhist. And as someone who is Filipino on top of that, I can't help but to think about the utter tragedy of my ancestors being forced to convert to Christianity or die. To forget their beliefs, pretend they never mattered, and embrace Jesus. To be forced to believe that their indigenous beliefs didn't matter. And so many of those indigenous beliefs are now lost and forgotten to their living ancestors (including myself) for it because to the Christians, their belief in Jesus was ultimately more important to them than just letting the Filipino beliefs and religions peacefully exist as they were. It's uncomfortable to me that you would rather I just embrace this view of Danny and let him be more important than and be an authority over my religion. That I should just be comfortable in Danny being more important and better than every religion that people actually practice in real life. That I should just forget the insult to my and any other religion that you make by placing Danny as more important than, and to "just have fun." But I can't. And these ideas are everywhere in this fandom. Even in stories where it shouldn't matter or doesn't need to be present, it's there. This reminder that you don't take my faith seriously- these ideas that Danny is more important than my faith are ubiquitous to this community. An issue that wasn't present in either of the original source materials. Because they thought about it and so went out of their way to not imply it. But here, people are just not willing to make that courtesy for even a second.

But it doesn't have to be this way. You can do better! I know that you can do better. And it isn't even difficult to do! All that you need to do better is to simply... Just... Think about it. When you imply or say "all afterlives are part of the Ghost Zone" actually think about ALL afterlives! Christian and Atheist and Greek ones, yes. But also Asian and Native American and African and South American ones too! Is that kind of thought fair towards Native American faiths, Buddhists, Jews, Hindus, Palestinians, Hellenists, Animists, and every other person and group that practices a faith? Or does this have majorly fucked up implications towards some or all of these people? If the answer is yes, you can proceed, but you need to be mindful of that fact and just think about it, even if only a little. Even if it's just a small acknowledgement that you don't know what you're talking about or that you are choosing to ignore some of the fucked up implications you're making here for the sake of the story in the tags. I just want you to take a moment and think through the implications of what you are making, and to make a choice on whether you should proceed or reconsider things. If you choose to proceed with the fucked up implications, that's fine. It means that you can do so with other mindsets in mind and can possibly use these ideas in interesting ways! At least you made a stance to possibly be shitty towards some people for the sake of your fun. At least you made the choice to say that some people's beliefs just don't matter to your story. This is a neutral statement. Some works of art are just not made for some kinds of people. And that's fine. But it is always better to knowingly acknowledge and make that choice than to pretend that it isn't there. And if you didn't realize that's what you were doing? If you reconsider and choose to turn back on this idea? At least you made that choice and didn't just passively follow the rest of the crowd to get here. Hopefully, thinking about it will make you more mindful about your art in the future and therefore make it better! The only thing to do about it is to acknowledge that you weren't thinking about the implications, but that you changed your mind, and move forwards with your life.

Now just to be entirely clear, I'm not telling you that I want you to feel guilty about being inconsiderate towards other faiths. That doesn't really do anyone any good. I won't get any satisfaction from you feeling guilty about it or internally punishing yourself for it. Just actually give what you might be implying more thought in terms of religion next time and do better. It's alright to make mistakes. We are all just human and we all make mistakes. Sometimes we don't even realize when we've made a mistake. Just strive to do better next time, be more willing to let go of these ideas that you're so attached to, allow yourself to see things from another perspective, and move on. Sometimes, it's better to just leave things alone. Sometimes you shouldn't meddle and try to rework ideas that were perfectly good on their own to begin with. Sometimes nothing that you personally can add will be a positive contribution. Sometimes the only thing that interfering will do is over-complicate things and rob the idea of what made it so interesting and powerful in the first place. But it's okay to leave it alone. It's going to be okay. I'm not angry. Just disappointed and a little frustrated. But it's better if you are able to just drop these things and move forwards with mindfulness in the future.

As an alternative, I think that it would generally be better for the Ghost Zone to just be its own thing separate from the other afterlives. Equal to other afterlives and not all-encompassing of them. It can be connected or related to other afterlives, but being greater than them as a whole is just a very uncomfortable and cruel implication. You don't need the Ghost Zone to be the most important thing in the multiverse. And Danny does not need to be the most powerful thing in existence. Please. It's okay to have power fantasies. But the invincible overpowered stronger than all Gods Danny should not be the overwhelming norm here to the detriment of everything else. It's only when you let go of Danny NEEDING to be the MOST important thing in the multiverse can you start to really dive into some of the more interesting sides of characters on their own terms and not on yours! Like... Did you know that there is one ghost character in DC called The Spectre and that he's the literal personification of the wrath of God? Did you know that Xanthe Zhou as a spirit envoy is actually half dead and half alive? Did you know that The Wizard Shazam is actually, secretly an aboriginal god? Did you know that in the DC universe that Judas Iscariot still walks the Earth to this day, doing vigilante work to atone for his betrayal of Jesus? Did you know that Ra's Al Ghul's mom has met and hung out with some of the demons that Sun Wukong fought against in Journey to the West? Hell, did you know that Damian is Buddhist!? Imagine that. Danny coming in and telling Damian that he's more important and more powerful than Damian's entire religion. That the Buddha is just a lackey of his and that he rules over all afterlives, including nirvana and cycles of reincarnation. I'm certain that Damian would take that very well and accept it wholeheartedly! Don't you agree with me?!!?!???!

I personally think that all of this is better and more interesting if characters, their religions, and ideas in general are able to interact with Danny's world on their own terms without being forced to fit within Danny's box! You don't need to try to force everything within DC's universe to fit inside Danny's. DC wouldn't ask for Danny's universe to conform to theirs! They would just add everything that Danny's universe has to offer on top of everything else they already have! And trying to fit the entire DC multiverse within the scope of Danny's universe... It's too small a box for too large of a universe! Sometimes you can just let things not be deeply connected. And sometimes things don't need a complicated explanation and it can literally just be magic. There's nothing wrong with trying to tie everything together in a neat and succinct way. But sometimes you need to pull your view out a little and look at what you're doing and genuinely ask yourself if what you're doing actually adds depth, or if it does more harm than good and makes everything worse, make less sense, and more complicated or not. It's okay to fall down the rabbit hole sometimes. I completely understand that happening and do it all the time! Just remember to be mindful about it!

Either way, if you're going to insist on desperately clinging onto these ideas of Danny being the Most Important and Powerful Thing in the Multiverse to the detriment of literally everything else, that's fine. But just be honest with what you're doing and why. This isn't a Ghost King Danny AU. Kingdoms don't have unequivocal power over other and all kingdoms. It's a God Emperor over all Gods Danny AU. Nothing wrong with that concept in of itself. Just tag it properly as something like "God King Danny" so that I don't have to deal with it and the implications you're making about my religion with it. That would be enough! I would be happy with that! Just make your choice. Think about what you're doing, why you're doing it and choose. If you choose to keep going, that's fine! All the more power to you! Have fun! But be honest about what you're making. I may not like it and think that it's an overdone, overplayed idea at this point, but you're free to do it! So go forwards and make what will bring you joy! But now that you've thought about it a little, hopefully you'll continue with a little more knowledge and foresight. And hopefully that will make your work even more interesting and better for it! And if you decide to change course, I'm glad that I was able to sway you and get you to see things from my perspective and come to my side on this. At the very least, hopefully this will help to vary up ideas within the fandom a bit and you won't just take ideas that are happening in this space entirely for granted and as givens! I have so many ideas on interesting ways that these intersections can go and characters that you can use, and ways to look at this community that offer so so SO many interesting story directions! I'm so happy that you've decided to come with me on this journey! You're going to make something great, I'm certain of it! So let's make something wonderful together! I believe in you! There's a lot of fun to be had! ^.^

[splatoon-confession-box]

Seeing Christians use splatposts to shove Christianity onto people is depressing and it’s worse that seeing among us crew mates or other memes.

[sleeplessnap]

Shout out to the fictionkins who have their own beliefs and don't feel "welcome" in the religion of the real world

[tsururoach]

Miseternea for my oneshot "For Mercy Has Arrived." on ao3.

Between unfinished rituals and broken names, Misericorde finds Eternea again on a plane that's not quite reality. AU

There is no value in a name, after all.

[heartnosekid]

it’s aggravating i have to say this, but please, if you follow me and respect my work, do not leave your religious beliefs or personal opinions about religion on any of my posts.

religion is not comforting to me, especially christianity. it was used as a weapon against me for years of my life and is still employed against me and the people i consider my family.

you can be christian and follow me, that i don’t care about. i don’t care what you post on your own blog. but if you preach about your religion or leave bible verses on my posts, i’d rather you keep that to yourself, if you don’t mind.

that’s all.

[yourbigendergremlet]

Gender affirming care: at least an argument to give to religious people

Like even if trans people are commiting sin, isnt your job as a christian to show compassion towards ALL people? If they are going to commut a sin either way, either altering your body (which im pretty sure was never mentiones as a sim) or suicide, then the best you can do as a christian is to help save their lives, show your love for your neighbour by not driving them to death by limiting their resources?

Maybe the reason there is a strong divide between the lgbt+ community and the religious community is because they see the religious people as those who don't care for them or want to help them, just take away what makes them happy, maybe, if they see the compassion and love that christians are meant to show to all people (and not meaning in the "i love you but i dont support you" way) then maybe, at least some, wont be so closed off to religion????

And while forgiveness is an act of compassion, do you really forgive them if you try to take away a recourse that can keep them alive? Or are you just saying you forgive them without actually meaning it because that is what your religious text told you that you should say and you don't really mean it? (Trust me, there is a HUGE difference between saying something like that and actually meaning it)

At least if they live, even while or post transition, at least they are alive and if they want to they can repent and confess to have their sins forgiven, but if they comit suicide and die, then by the belief, its too late for them and they will be condemmed to hell

Like yeah, trans affiimg care is saving their lives, but it can also give them a chance at saving their soul too

Like is this a silly thing for me to think? Even if the trans person's end goal is never gonna be to become religious, at least a religious person's role is to give them a chance????? Or at least keep them alive????????

[frajer-00]

Do you guys think that when jesus rose from the dead, he seeked out judas? Do you think he wanted to show him it's alright, only to find his body, 3 days old? It was as if they traded life - judas belonged to the living, jesus did not, and yet... Do you think when he saw judas commited suicide, do you think he mourned an eternity with him in heaven?

[doueverwonder]

so right now in my hc Utah and Idaho are currently mormon, Arizona and Nevada are ex-Mormon, and like Wyoming and Colorado were technically Mormon corridor too and idk about Wyoming yet but I think it’d be funny as fuck if Colorado still self-identifies as Mormon but just so blatantly isn’t.

like someone asks if he’s religious and he’ll say he’s Mormon but then go on this little side ramble about Mormonism and every time Utah has been in ear shot he contemplates dropping his first ever f-bomb just so he can ask Coco what the fuck he’s on about. none of those words are in the Book of Mormon. Colorado hasn’t been in a church in 50 yrs and hasn’t had a temple recommend (I think that’s what it’s called) for at least 70. He’s not Mormon anymore. No one knows why he still says he is.

[gemsofgreece]

https://www.vimaorthodoxias.gr/nea/zitisan-apo-ellina-ithopoio-na-vgalei-ton-stayro-poy-foroyse-sta-gyrismata-sirial-poy-tha-paichtei-sto-netflix/

Sad and unacceptable that they asked this Greek actor while filming to remove his cross necklace. Like the disrespect 😔

The article is in Greek, so I am gonna explain what happened. A Greek actor participated in a Pakistani production prepared for Netflix. The actor says he was immediately met with a hostile environment on set, however all this became even clearer when the producer demanded of him to remove his cross because “the movie would be international”. The actor argued that exactly since the movie would be international and not specifically Pakistani, it made sense to be more tolerant of all expressions and faiths (and his character wasn’t a Pakistani anyway). The producer insisted and the actor then argued that the cross wouldn’t be visible since his clothing was layered all the way to the top. The producer ignored this and insisted. The actor didn’t press the situation, he got ready for the shoot, kept the cross under his layers of clothing and filmed the scene without issue.

I am personally told an even worse situation: a friend was working in a restaurant in Germany, a supposedly tolerant European country. He was wearing a cross under his shirt. The Turkish supervisor demanded of him to remove the cross. It’s been years so I don’t remember exactly how this unfolded, whether he complied or not. (He left at some point though.) The whole argument is that you force your religion to others which is laughable and for some reason only happens with Christianity?! Does that mean that if I see a woman with a hijab I am automatically forced to become a Muslim?!?! No it only happens with a Cross. You automatically get a first class ticket to Saint Peter’s gates upon looking at a cross. What a bunch of bullshit! The Turk obviously did not like a cross in the restaurant , even under her employee’s shirt, and Germany, like many other western countries, in the name of diversity and inclusion, selectively welcome the beliefs of some communities while butchering the right to self-expression of others. I find this situation worse because at least the Pakistanis are overwhelmingly and very passionately Muslim, you could expect some reaction like this one from them (not that it is justified). But Germany which constantly raves about equality and tolerance and diversity turns a blind eye towards such injustice. I have been told this happens in many of the northern countries - they are so scared that they maybe called backwards because they are/were mostly Christian-cultured, that they have ended up accepting and empowering everyone except their own Christians.

And people are taking advantage of this. What are the chances that this Turkish supervisor would also demand of a potential Muslim waitress with a hijab to remove it? Not nonexistent, but pretty slim anyway. The cross though? Toss it away, no problem.

And let me be clear, of course people of other faiths face numerous problems with their religious garb in a society with a different major religion, i.e Christianity. Of course it’s super common for Christian shop owners to not hire visibly non-Christian employees. I am just commenting on the hypocrisy that this happens only by evil Christians, maintained by the “woke culture”. This in fact happens by everyone in power unfortunately. A Greek in Pakistan is harassed because he is in a disadvantage. A Pakistani in Greece has no as many ways to practise their faith because they are in a disadvantage. No matter how much we try, we just hide behind our fingers, religious intolerance remains strong everywhere across the globe. But the ones who pretend to have figured out and fixed all the problems are the ones who anger me the most, because they are hypocrites who allow such shit to keep happening under their nose.

[dreamgirljune]

I MET GOD IN THE SNACK AISLE AT 7/11

and it was like this: one of us will die and he wished it was him. he spoke of death like an ex-girlfriend who won't return his calls. and he spoke to me the way my mother did when she was behind on child support. it was the first time i believed him when he said "i'm sorry." the last time i saw him, he was sitting angry in a bar, wasted and a waste of space. now the only thing he remembers how to be is tired. he told me he wished he was something different. wished he could be good instead of always being great. he asked me to cover him for the bag of pretzels. for old time's sake. i ask him if it'll be like this forever. this time, he doesn't speak. only cries.

by judas h. ( @judas-redeemed )

[shoechoe]

YOU GET IT. a diavolo and pucci bible study would end up in them trying to mangle each other and still... Alluring

Haha yeah. I mean, it's not even just the obvious fact that Diavolo is a guy named "Devil" and mild thematic opposite to DIO while Pucci is a priest and one of DIO's closest confidants.

Like, "What would Diavolo even think about God" is a question I've pondered a lot in the past.

Diavolo does mention an "afterlife" for his enemies on occasion, but otherwise his real thoughts on it are unknown. (Hell he might not actually believe in an afterlife and he's just saying that to taunt his enemies dying). However he was raised by an Italian priest so we basically know for a fact that he has history with religion.

It's always been my personal headcanon that Diavolo has religious trauma- the fact that he has trauma is canonical yet unexplored, and his father seemed like the most obvious source of it. That could mean a lot of things. He might have resentment for the church after he got away from it or he might have developed an odd version of its teachings after all that time.

Considering his name is Devil, Diavolo's belief that he can surpass his own fate could be construed as his desire to "surpass" God in a way (to escape the punishments that his father made him feel like he was born deserving, maybe). At the same time, he also believes that he's chosen by "fate" to rule, creating an oddly self-contradicting worldview. (Then he's ultimately punished with the death loop, which disobeys his fate of death to torture him for eternity.)

Pucci's idea of fate is heavily intertwined with his religion, with his idea of "Heaven" being the ability to see your fate before it happens. Considering the common Christian belief that God predetermines what happens (which would make sense as a belief for Jojo since fate is a real, tangible force), Pucci probably believes that fate is God's will. So, his idea of "heaven" could be Pucci wanting to be close to God and understanding God's will (as much as it also ties to the tragedy that happened in his backstory, spawning his desire to accept what will happen in his life and thinking that's what's best for everyone).

At the same time, Pucci also states that only he is untied by fate in his ideal universe, which would logically be disobeying God's will, making him a bit unintentionally hypocritical. I mean, his entire "Heaven" plan is an attempt to usurp the set-in-stone laws of the Universe, which is also logically an act of disobeying God. Him obeying DIO and telling him things like "I love you as I love God" could easily be construed as idolatry. DIO heavily manipulated Pucci when he was young and used his religious beliefs to make him obey him, so his whole "Heaven" plan could very obviously be seen as an act of disobeying God despite Pucci's belief that it's what God wants. But I digress.

If it's like that, then we'd have a character who strays from God's will despite thinking he's a righteous man of God, and a character who intentionally desires to surpass fate, has a potentially tumultuous history with religion, and believes he "deserves" to rule despite cheating his way to the top. It's so interesting how similar they become when you think about it despite them being so dissimilar at first glance. They'd hate each other and the way they think despite how adjacent they really are. Like, man, if they interacted, let alone were somehow forced to sit down and talk to each other about their worldviews... I don't even know.

[mygraine]

guys would i be clowned on if i made christianity - based mogai terms . . .